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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not supported by monkeys with kinson knives. Instead,

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Speaker 1: it's supported by the generous donations of our listeners on Patreon.

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Speaker 1: Visit patreon dot com slash thinking sideways to learn more

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Speaker 1: and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't you never know stories

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Speaker 1: of things we simply don't know the answer too. Well.

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Speaker 1: Here there, welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe,

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Speaker 1: as always, joined by Devin and Steve. All right, and uh,

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Speaker 1: this week we're going to talk about guess what, another

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Speaker 1: unsolved mystery. Yeah we're out of those. Yeah, no, we're

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Speaker 1: not quite out. We will be soon. Sorry about that, folks.

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Speaker 1: But it's Cooking with Joe right exactly, show how to

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Speaker 1: cook Raman the fifth Way. Actually, have you heard how

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Speaker 1: bad Roman supposed toly is for you? Now? Yeah? Really? Okay,

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Speaker 1: yeah really bad? Don't cook with it. Turns out like

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Speaker 1: fish oil is not actually all that good for you either.

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Speaker 1: We're already off topic and we're not a minute into

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Speaker 1: the show, haven't even Yeah, I know, let's let's get

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Speaker 1: let's going on with this. So this week we're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about an interesting little mystery out of Ireland, which

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Speaker 1: is a stranger of mysterious island. Uh, we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about the case of Peter Bergman, who you guys people

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Speaker 1: people may or may not have heard of. Before we

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Speaker 1: go any further, I would like to give a shout

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Speaker 1: out to our listener John who suggested this topic. Thanks John,

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Speaker 1: and so let's get started. So who was Peter Bergman?

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Speaker 1: Nobody knows. Uh, it's almost certainly was not this guy's

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Speaker 1: real name. There might be somebody out there who does know,

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Speaker 1: but they're apparently not talking. So our story began in

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Speaker 1: two thousand nine, Uh, specifically in June twelfth, two thousand nine,

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Speaker 1: when Peter Bergman showed up in the town of Sligo, Ireland,

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Speaker 1: and then four days later he was found add on

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Speaker 1: a beach north of the town. You cut this one

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Speaker 1: close under the five year wire, didn't you there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's only six years old. Six years in a couple

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Speaker 1: of months. Yeah, al right. He was found dead on

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Speaker 1: the beach. Uh. And autopsy was done, of course, and

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Speaker 1: it turned up no signs of violence or foul play.

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Speaker 1: It also showed that he had advanced prostate cancer, he

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Speaker 1: had bone tumors, and it appeared that he had had

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Speaker 1: a few previous heart attacks, so not in the greatest

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Speaker 1: of shape. There was no evidence of pain killers in

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Speaker 1: his system, although he did he had some aspir in

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Speaker 1: his possession when he died, but he had he wasn't

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Speaker 1: taking it apparently, which is like we should mention really

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Speaker 1: really odd first time, he would have likely have been

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Speaker 1: in an immense amount of pain, or at least some pain, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll disagree with that. Well, I I just everybody says, well,

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Speaker 1: he had to be in such pain. I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that. I mean, I know it was

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Speaker 1: it was in his bones and everything else. But I've

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Speaker 1: known people who have had massive amounts of cancer all

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Speaker 1: through their body. They felt little off, that was it

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Speaker 1: until they happened ago the doctrine figure out what was

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Speaker 1: going on. Yeah, so relatively Okay, So I don't I

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Speaker 1: don't know that he necessarily would have been in really

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Speaker 1: any substantial amount of pain. It might not have been.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to say. I mean, I've seen video of him,

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Speaker 1: and he didn't didn't appear to be over him pain

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. Oh, there were two other strange

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Speaker 1: things that were found in the autopsy. He had had

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Speaker 1: one kidney removed and also even though he was found

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Speaker 1: apparently washed up on a beach. He didn't die by drowning.

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Speaker 1: That's a mystery. That's weird. How did he die? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Who was Peter Bergmann? What was he up to in

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Speaker 1: Sligo in the days between he arrived on Friday and

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Speaker 1: he died on the sixteenth of June. What brought him

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Speaker 1: to the town, what brought him to the beach at

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Speaker 1: Ross's Point which is where he died? And how and

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Speaker 1: why did he die if he didn't drown? Really? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's intrigue. Yeah that sounds this is like the Tom

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Speaker 1: and Trude case. Yeah, kind of. It's reminiscent of that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah it is. Yeah, let's let's get to the last

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Speaker 1: mystery first, which is how did he die if he

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Speaker 1: didn't drown? Well, actually, it turns out he did drown,

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Speaker 1: even yeah, even though yeah the Wikipedia, Wikipedia and web Sluice,

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Speaker 1: etcetera say that he didn't drown, he actually did. How

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Speaker 1: do you know that? I got this from the website

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Speaker 1: of the Federal Office of Criminal Investigation in Germany, which

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Speaker 1: is kind of their equivalent of the FBI. Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: have what's called their unknown Dead section unidentified dead people,

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Speaker 1: and he's got his own page on there with his

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Speaker 1: description and his photograph and everything, and it lists the

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Speaker 1: cause of death that's drowning. Yeah. So it was interesting

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Speaker 1: to me because I did a fair number of actually

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Speaker 1: spent this entire afternoon because it was two thousand nine,

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Speaker 1: so there should be records of the you know, there

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Speaker 1: would have been newspaper articles. In my mind, right, people

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Speaker 1: would have been like, Wow, this guy washed up on

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Speaker 1: shore dead, like that's weird, and there was a weirdness

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Speaker 1: around the case anyway. And I couldn't find anything I

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Speaker 1: found said he died of drowning. I found, I didn't

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Speaker 1: find any I found one newspaper article was the only

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Speaker 1: one I could find that was pre the release of

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Speaker 1: the movie we're about to talk about. Um. It was

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Speaker 1: from April, and it didn't say anything about the cause

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Speaker 1: of death at all. It didn't address it. It actually

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Speaker 1: didn't address any of the health anything's so I thought

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Speaker 1: that was a little odd. But you know, you couldn't

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Speaker 1: find anything about the autopsy. You couldn't find anything about,

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Speaker 1: you know, anything from that actual time, even from that year,

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Speaker 1: which I thought was weird. He didn't make the papers,

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Speaker 1: he didn't make the news. It made it made the news,

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Speaker 1: but it's one of those things very local, popped up

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Speaker 1: and then died out again pretty quickly. Well, I like

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Speaker 1: searched through the archives of like the local newspapers, the

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Speaker 1: chronicle there, and it didn't have anything very odd. And

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Speaker 1: it's possible that, you know, and as I said, it

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Speaker 1: was just this afternoon, so it's possible. Had I, you know,

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Speaker 1: given myself more time to do more digging, you would

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Speaker 1: have cropped up. But I did a lot of googling

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Speaker 1: and it didn't. There's not a huge amount out there

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Speaker 1: about this one. Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say, I know,

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Speaker 1: I found a lot of repetition in what was available. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: almost everything I found was more about the movie than

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Speaker 1: it was about the case. And what it was about

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Speaker 1: the case tended to be not not word for word

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Speaker 1: copy paste like we find a lot, but very very

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Speaker 1: lax rewritings. Yeah I noticed that. Yeah. Yeah, So but anyway,

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Speaker 1: i'd luckily I did find that German website and so

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Speaker 1: that clears that up. Yeah, which is I think what happened.

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Speaker 1: I think I know how that got started because we

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Speaker 1: mentioned the film in two thousand and thirteen, again named

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Speaker 1: Karen Cassidy made a short film called The Last Days

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Speaker 1: of Peter Bergman. And in this film, it's it's he

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Speaker 1: actually splices together interviews with a lot of close circuit

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Speaker 1: TV footage from the circuit TV all over that town.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, they've got it all wired up, but

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Speaker 1: they ended you. Clive Killgallan, who was the medical examiner

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Speaker 1: who performed the autopsy on Bergmann, and he stated in

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Speaker 1: the interview, said that initially there were no outward signs

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Speaker 1: of saltwater drowning. Uh. And my takeaway from that as

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Speaker 1: that he meant at first glance, he didn't look drowned.

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Speaker 1: That is all that he meant by it. That's as

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Speaker 1: far as he went. And he didn't say there was

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Speaker 1: no evidence of drowning. After the autopsy, he also didn't

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Speaker 1: say drowned. He didn't say it either. Yeah, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: know now, I mean I watched it. I watched it

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Speaker 1: again this afternoon, and I'm just thinking, was his bit

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Speaker 1: in the movie It ends almost immediately after that, doesn't

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Speaker 1: it the only interview they had with him? Right? But

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying he's on there for I don't know,

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Speaker 1: maybe a minute, But as soon as he says that bit,

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Speaker 1: it cuts to something else, and I wonder if that

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Speaker 1: intentionally got left out. I don't know. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to point fingers. I'm just wondering. I don't think the

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Speaker 1: film intended to mislead because like, for example, you here

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Speaker 1: the detective who investigated the case saying after that that

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Speaker 1: that he think he thinks that perhaps Bergman intended to

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Speaker 1: be carried out to see and not washed back up

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Speaker 1: on sure. So it seems to me that they just

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Speaker 1: didn't even talk about the cause of death because it

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Speaker 1: was just larteringly obvious, and so they didn't feel the

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Speaker 1: need to talk about it. But it didn't come across

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Speaker 1: as obvious as they wanted it, maybe, which we've been

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Speaker 1: we've been guilty of a time or two. Yeah, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I And obviously you can infer that he drowned,

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Speaker 1: because if he hadn't drowned, then that would have been

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Speaker 1: that would have added a huge bit of mystery to

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Speaker 1: this whole thing. Why did he just go to go

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Speaker 1: to the beach and will himself to die? You know?

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Speaker 1: And they didn't bring up anything like that and also

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Speaker 1: kill Gallen in his interview. That's again s a medical

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Speaker 1: examiner said nothing about a missing kidney, and you think

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Speaker 1: he did a pretty thorough autopsy. He found the cancer

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Speaker 1: and then the bone tumors and the heart attacks and

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Speaker 1: all that stuff, and he didn't notice it was a

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Speaker 1: missing kidney. Yeah, it seems like he would have mentioned that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the only place I I looked around and I didn't

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Speaker 1: find any mention of that other than the Wikipedia page,

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Speaker 1: So I think we can discount. And I couldn't find

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Speaker 1: I followed the links, I know, like sometimes we just

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Speaker 1: read a Wikipedia page and go on our business, but

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Speaker 1: I actually did my due diligence and tried to follow

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Speaker 1: all the links, and the one where it said that

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Speaker 1: he hadn't drowned. The in the autopsy section of the

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Speaker 1: Wikipedia linked to that German website that you posted, um,

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Speaker 1: which obviously they hadn't really I don't know, translated well enough. Really,

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Speaker 1: they didn't do a good job of translate. It was

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Speaker 1: just odd that, you know, on the Wikipedia page, the

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Speaker 1: source that they cited for said the exact opposite of

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Speaker 1: the thing that citing it. So there were some problems

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Speaker 1: with that Wikipedia page for sure. Definitely. Yeah, Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: happens anyway. So now we solved that mystery. Let's let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the rest of it, because there's still still

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Speaker 1: some remaining mystery here, lots of it. Yeah. Um, so

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Speaker 1: our mystery begins June twelve, two thousand nine. As I said,

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Speaker 1: Peter Bergmann, if that's his real name, we have to

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Speaker 1: call him that because that's all we know him by.

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Speaker 1: That's all we know him by. That's right. So he

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Speaker 1: got on a bus in Dairy, Northern Ireland and wrote

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Speaker 1: it to Sligo, which is also in Northern Ireland, but

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Speaker 1: in Northern Ireland, in the north part of Ireland, now

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Speaker 1: in Northern Ireland. Yeah, okay, just just so you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a couple of capitals in that isn't there to

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Speaker 1: the capital inn and I in the capital but lower

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Speaker 1: case in. Is that how you're differentiating these slago is

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Speaker 1: in the one with the lower case in. This is

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Speaker 1: going to get confused. Oh yeah. And Sligo is a

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Speaker 1: coastal town of about twenty people, so you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: not a city, um of course. I've looked at it

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Speaker 1: in Google Earth and the StreetView and it's a charming

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Speaker 1: little town. Berg went arrived in Sligo and he went

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Speaker 1: to the Sligo City Hotel and checked in. He didn't

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Speaker 1: have a reservation, he was a walk in, and interestingly,

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Speaker 1: the hotel didn't ask to see a passport or I

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Speaker 1: D or a credit card or anything. He just paid

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Speaker 1: cash up front. Yeah yeah, yeah. And so typically hotels

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Speaker 1: usually want to see a driver's license, right something. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that wants something to hold in case you philch out

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Speaker 1: or you do a bunch of damage or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean they did, they didn't. They did,

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Speaker 1: they did not. So when he away, when he signed

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Speaker 1: into the hotel register, he gave his name is Peter Bergmann,

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Speaker 1: and he listed an address in Vienna, Austria, which, as

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Speaker 1: it turns out, was a vacant lot. Yeah. Yeah uh.

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Speaker 1: And here's something interesting though, that is the bus station

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Speaker 1: in Sligo is right next to a hotel, the site

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Speaker 1: of the Sligo Southern Hotel, which basically charges about the

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Speaker 1: same rates for room as a Sligo City hotel. And

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Speaker 1: if Bergman had taken the route the most obvious easy

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Speaker 1: route to go to the city hotel, he would have

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Speaker 1: passed by the Clarence Hotel, which also charges about the

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Speaker 1: same rates. So instead of going to those hotels, he

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Speaker 1: went to the Sligo City hotel makes you wonder, well,

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Speaker 1: it's out ahead of time. Yeah, it is. It's almost like,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe he went there because they wouldn't ask

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Speaker 1: to see I d maybe, but how would he know

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Speaker 1: that ahead of time? Yeah? Actually, well actually I had

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Speaker 1: an email conversation with one of our listeners, Gavin, relating

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Speaker 1: to this, and he he told me that there are

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Speaker 1: actually a lot of German tourists like to go to

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Speaker 1: Western Ireland. It's very pot there there among them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: between British people, Americans and Germans are the three heaviest travelers.

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Speaker 1: So he was saying, it's it's it seems really possible

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Speaker 1: that he went there. He'd been there before, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: he might have been familiar with s but he might

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Speaker 1: have also gotten this. He took a cab to the

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Speaker 1: hotel from the bus stations, so he might have gotten

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Speaker 1: this from his cab driver too. Maybe his cab driver

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Speaker 1: told him. We will never know. Okay, now he's checking

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Speaker 1: at the hotel. He's got a shoulder bag which is

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Speaker 1: kind of like a laptop bag, and he's got a large,

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Speaker 1: larger piece of luggage. You guys have seen it on film.

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Speaker 1: It's like it's not really a suitcase. It's more like

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Speaker 1: a really huge black bag, like a Duffel bag. Now

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like a it's kind of like a

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Speaker 1: big open top bag. It's it's as big as a suitcase.

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Speaker 1: But you know, imagine those shopping bags that they have

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Speaker 1: to have just the two loop handles and they're kind

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Speaker 1: of bags. Yeah, okay, yeah, So he had this really

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Speaker 1: really great big bag and he had that than his

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Speaker 1: laptop bag. That's what he had. According to the close

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Speaker 1: circuit TV cameras. Uh. He had a heavy accent, probably

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Speaker 1: German or Austrian, although there were some people who have

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Speaker 1: said they thought he saided more Eastern European. He appeared

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Speaker 1: to be sixty years old. He had short white hair,

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Speaker 1: was wearing glasses, and also wearing a waist length black

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Speaker 1: leather jacket. You guys have all you guys have seen. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean they're really He wouldn't have stood out in

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Speaker 1: the crowd. No, not at all. There was nothing weird

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Speaker 1: unique about him. No, not at all. Well, anyway, he

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Speaker 1: spent the weekend. He checked it on a Friday afternoon.

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Speaker 1: I spent the weekend hanging around the hotel. He ate

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Speaker 1: in the hotel's restaurant, and he left quite often to

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Speaker 1: go out for walks, didn't they to The woman at

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Speaker 1: the front desks called him how she referred to him

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Speaker 1: as a friendly face or a familiar face around. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that she would always see him. Yeah, the whole weekend.

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Speaker 1: She saw him a lot. He was around. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: he would he would actually would leave quite often too.

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Speaker 1: And every time he left he was carrying a purple

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Speaker 1: plastic bag. And by some accounts, he left with that

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Speaker 1: bag thirteen times. And whenever we returned to the hotel,

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Speaker 1: he didn't have the bag with him. Well, I mean

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Speaker 1: he may have, like in a pocket or something, but

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Speaker 1: he wasn't carrying it full of stuff anymore. Yeah, exactly

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Speaker 1: because the stuff the context of the bag had disappeared.

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Speaker 1: And it's not just when people get the idea. It's

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Speaker 1: not a huge bag or anything like that. It's a

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Speaker 1: plastic bag that I would say is kind of equal

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Speaker 1: in size to what you would get from say a

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Speaker 1: grocery store. It's not act full of stuff, but it's

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Speaker 1: just a little one. Yeah, it's not a huge bag

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Speaker 1: like the kid you get from Forever one when you

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Speaker 1: just buy a shirt. Yeah, because I always shop it forever. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not so if I if I shop there, can

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Speaker 1: I be again? You are automatically they won't think you're

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Speaker 1: just the creepy old man. Yeah, cool, I'm there. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: I mentioned before the closed circuit TV cameras there not

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Speaker 1: only is a town all wired up with this close

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Speaker 1: circuit TV. I'm gonna call it CCTVs from now. And

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Speaker 1: also the City Hotel has has got a lot of

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Speaker 1: CCTVs in it also and the guard I that's that's

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Speaker 1: what they called the police in uh in Ireland, the

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Speaker 1: guard that I investigated this thing. Um. They got the

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Speaker 1: CCTV footage from the hotel and from all around town

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Speaker 1: and started going through it. And that must have been

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Speaker 1: a job, yeah, really a lot of TV watching. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They got all sorts of little little bits of video

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Speaker 1: of Bergman. He was leaving and entering the hotel, always

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Speaker 1: leaving with the purple bag and always returning without it.

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Speaker 1: There were clips have been walking around Sligo with this

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Speaker 1: purple bag and also clips of him without it. But

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Speaker 1: you never see him actually doing something like emptying the

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Speaker 1: bag and in a trash can, or handing it to

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Speaker 1: somebody or throwing it over a wall. Or you know,

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Speaker 1: you never see that, so you either see him with

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Speaker 1: it or without it. Yeah, and that's I don't know

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Speaker 1: if that's a random chance or if he actually was

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Speaker 1: well aware of all the CCTVs around town and he

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Speaker 1: deliberately avoided doing whatever he did with the contents of

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Speaker 1: the purple bag when there was a camera around. The

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Speaker 1: funny thing is about that is when you watch him

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Speaker 1: on the footage, he looks like he's aimlessly wandering around. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and he's not. He's not wandering around like a tourist.

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Speaker 1: He's not looking at stuff. He's just walking around. Like

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Speaker 1: there's a couple of scenes I remember in the movie

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Speaker 1: that you see it and it's like, wait, that's the

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Speaker 1: same street. He walked down one side and then later

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Speaker 1: on up the other side and then came back down.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure that they weren't all in the same walk,

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Speaker 1: but it's like, do you just one around just ump

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Speaker 1: and down? Yeah? Yeah, I don't, And I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I was. I was too lazy to actually, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: compare all those things to the actual Google street views,

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Speaker 1: so I can thought you'd try to retrace his track

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Speaker 1: now that it would be pointless to do that anyway,

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Speaker 1: since the clips that are in the movie, you don't

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Speaker 1: know what if they're even in chronological order, So you

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Speaker 1: really can't racist movements that way. Yeah, plus that would

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Speaker 1: be a huge job. So well, so we're the contents

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Speaker 1: of the bat or the bags or the contents of

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Speaker 1: the bag where they ever found? No, no, the well,

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Speaker 1: I letna tell you a little bit about the investigation.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, that's okay. Well, what they did is, after

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Speaker 1: they discovered this, this whole thing about the purple bag,

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Speaker 1: they started looking in all the garbage cans around town

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Speaker 1: and all the dumpstairs. And he even went down to

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Speaker 1: the city dump and dug around with the city dump

340
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Speaker 1: looking for seeing if they could find the contents of

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Speaker 1: what he'd been emptying out. And they found nothing because

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00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:37,280
Speaker 1: they've just found regular garbage. Well, but if he's if okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to run with the idea that he's just

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Speaker 1: getting rid of his personal belongings, his underwear, his toothbrush,

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Speaker 1: you know, shaving kids, kind of generic stuff. It's yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're you're, oh, well, he always used Crest Sparkle, so

347
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:53,879
Speaker 1: this must be his tube of toothpaste. You have no

348
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Speaker 1: idea it's amongst a whole bunch of other garbage. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know they were just looking for something special, like

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Speaker 1: a diary, maybe you know, for a wallet, I guess.

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Speaker 1: But then you have to wonder, like why, Like I'm

352
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,080
Speaker 1: sure there was a dumpster just right outside of the hotel,

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Speaker 1: Like why wouldn't he just go and like dump all

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Speaker 1: of his stuff in that dumpster? Well, exactly why, Like

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00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:20,480
Speaker 1: why these like very meticulous it's it's it's it's yeah,

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00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,080
Speaker 1: it's uh. Well, the police actually formulated a theory, which

357
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:29,240
Speaker 1: is that he was trying to erase his identity because

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I don't think I mentioned this,

359
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,199
Speaker 1: but when they found the body, and they obviously took up,

360
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,680
Speaker 1: took him for the autopsy, removed the clothes. They also

361
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,359
Speaker 1: found the rest of his clothes down the beach little ways,

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Speaker 1: and they found out all the tags from everything, every garment,

363
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Speaker 1: all the tags have been cut out. So once it's

364
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:50,040
Speaker 1: more like Tom Tom and shoot again, um and so,

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Speaker 1: And of course there was no idea in the body

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. And so the belief was that

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Speaker 1: he was trying to erase his identity by getting rid

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Speaker 1: of every article of anything that he owned. Yeah, I

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00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,040
Speaker 1: still just I guess. Yeah, I hear that. I just

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Speaker 1: still I'm not totally sure why I had to be

371
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,240
Speaker 1: in this like very meticulous like spread out around. Well. Yeah,

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00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,439
Speaker 1: the thing about it is is, um, this is what

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Speaker 1: I don't like about this theory is that he got

374
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Speaker 1: on a bus and dairy and god knows where he

375
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,040
Speaker 1: was where he was before he was at dairy. But

376
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:19,879
Speaker 1: while it was in dairy, he could have just pitched

377
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Speaker 1: everything into a dumpster. If he was really worried that

378
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Speaker 1: slide open the guard I we're gonna trace its identity.

379
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,000
Speaker 1: He could have just pitched all the dunster there or

380
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,159
Speaker 1: wherever he was before then. Yeah, exactly. So that's that's

381
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,400
Speaker 1: that's the problem that I have with the GUARDI theory. Yeah,

382
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,119
Speaker 1: but luckily we've got some other theories to work with. Yeah,

383
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,520
Speaker 1: well we were not eies. We'll talk about that. What

384
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,040
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, can we go back there real

385
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,320
Speaker 1: quick to the all the labels in his clothing. Yeah,

386
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,280
Speaker 1: so I know that one of the things that they

387
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,280
Speaker 1: do in the movie is they show, you know, they

388
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,800
Speaker 1: put in front of the camera. Look, they're snipped out,

389
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,800
Speaker 1: and I think it's it's a tag in a shirt.

390
00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,320
Speaker 1: It's the tag and his underwear, and it might be

391
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,280
Speaker 1: the tag in his pants, the tagging a speedo to

392
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:06,600
Speaker 1: that speed when Yeah, which are all tags that rub

393
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,760
Speaker 1: against your skin. And I don't know about you, but

394
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,120
Speaker 1: there are certain brands that I always have to cut

395
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,840
Speaker 1: the tags out because I swear to god they're made

396
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 1: out of cardboard with barbed wire on, because they just

397
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:20,359
Speaker 1: scratched the heck out of you. Yeah, he may have

398
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:24,040
Speaker 1: been like weirdly sensitive. It's it's fair. But when you

399
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,720
Speaker 1: cut those tags out, do you just you just snip

400
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 1: right down to the seam right, like as far as

401
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,120
Speaker 1: you can go right. Yeah, So on those they were

402
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 1: kind of like haphazardly, like there was still enough tag

403
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:37,399
Speaker 1: that if it was irritating his skin, it would have

404
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 1: continued to irritate his skin. That's truely didn't do that.

405
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 1: It wasn't a great job. It wasn't a totally It

406
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,879
Speaker 1: wasn't like this is like scraping the crap out of

407
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:48,560
Speaker 1: my skin. I gotta get rid of it. It was

408
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 1: like I will agree with I will, I will give

409
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:52,879
Speaker 1: you that. I mean, you know, it might be that

410
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,200
Speaker 1: he just needed to get most of it off, or

411
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 1: maybe it is just it was a hat job, no

412
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,320
Speaker 1: pun intended. Yeah, yeah, so I don't know how much

413
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 1: you can read into the whole tags removed and it

414
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 1: looks a little funny. But anyway, I want to go

415
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,919
Speaker 1: back to the investigation a little bit. Uh. Yeah, they

416
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,920
Speaker 1: canvassed the town. They found everybody that could possibly find

417
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,359
Speaker 1: who could who could have talked to him or had

418
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,920
Speaker 1: any kind of contact, and they didn't get a huge

419
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,960
Speaker 1: amount of stuff. But they did find out that on Saturday,

420
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 1: the day after he arrived, he went to the post

421
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,679
Speaker 1: office about eighty two cent stamps and airmail stickers. But

422
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 1: if emailed letters, and he probably did the emailed any letters.

423
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Speaker 1: Nobody knows because obviously there by the time they discovered

424
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,920
Speaker 1: the body that the letters were long gone, and they

425
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,879
Speaker 1: obviously don't keep a record of that. So well, some

426
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 1: places do. Some places the mail is sorted digitally. It's

427
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 1: a camera taking pictures of it. But if you don't

428
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,720
Speaker 1: know what post box he put it into to be

429
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 1: able to trace it, and he didn't put you know,

430
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,120
Speaker 1: a return address, we don't really have a good example

431
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 1: of his handwriting. Yeah, it's just it's a needle in

432
00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,159
Speaker 1: a haystack. Yeah, it would disappear It would be very hard,

433
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:01,639
Speaker 1: and I don't know how long they keep those records

434
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 1: for either, I don't know. Yeah, but it sounds like

435
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 1: they figured this out pretty quick. I imagine that the

436
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,639
Speaker 1: all the postal services probably have to keep, you know,

437
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 1: a month or five records some number for liability. Yeah,

438
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,360
Speaker 1: but there would be literally no way to know they

439
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 1: were his or not. You'd have to canvass everybody in

440
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: the town and all of the tourists and say, hey,

441
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 1: did any of you send This would have been the

442
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: only possible way that they could have got a break

443
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,199
Speaker 1: on that was if the Slago City Hotel had its

444
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 1: own stationary and he sent some letters on that. That

445
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,880
Speaker 1: might have been But he seems like he was fairly

446
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 1: throw to cover his tracks. Yeah, so you probably would

447
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 1: have used just generic white envelopes, you think, Yeah, I

448
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 1: think so. Okay, So he bought the stamps and he

449
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 1: mailed anywhere between one and eight letters to a bunch

450
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 1: of people. I guess I assume those stamps coming sheets, probably,

451
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:55,880
Speaker 1: and that's why you bought eight. But maybe he did

452
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,640
Speaker 1: actually need exactly eight. I don't know. Nobody will never

453
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 1: know that, or maybe will never know that. The next

454
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 1: day on Sunday in the morning, he got in a

455
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 1: cab and he asked the driver where a nice quiet

456
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 1: beach was, and the driver recommended Ross's Point, which is

457
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 1: north of town, and they drove up there. Bergman got

458
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 1: out of the car, looked around, got back in the car,

459
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 1: and they drove back to Sligo. So that was his

460
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 1: day at the beach except for the next day, of course,

461
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: Monday afternoon. Peter Bergman checked out of the hotel around

462
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 1: one pm. He and he had intentionally asked for a

463
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 1: late checkout rate. Yeah, yeah, he did. Yeah, he said

464
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 1: he was. He was just heading out. He was like

465
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 1: at loose and his bus wasn't leaving until next so,

466
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,400
Speaker 1: you know, could he stick around? Yeah yeah, I said yeah,

467
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 1: they said fun. But when he checked out, here's the

468
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 1: funny thing. He still had a shoulder bag, but the

469
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 1: large bag was gone, and in his place he had

470
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 1: a small piece of black luggage, which the police called

471
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: a hold all. I think that's one of those small bags.

472
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,360
Speaker 1: It's got the draw stringing cinch on it. You see

473
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: a lot of people using those for backpacks now, yeah,

474
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: because when you see it in the footage, like those

475
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: Nike Yeah, yeah, it is and you can wear it

476
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,439
Speaker 1: is the people wears a backpack with the strings. I

477
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: think that's all that was. That's what I got the

478
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: impression of looking at it. Yeah, I'm not sure. It

479
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: looked to me kind of like one of those slim

480
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 1: little bags that that zips across the top and then

481
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: there's two loops for handles. Looks kind of like one

482
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: of those to me, but it's hard to tell. It's low,

483
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 1: it's kind of low rest foot and I thought I

484
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: read somewhere that it was like a wrist bag, like

485
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 1: it had a wrist trap on it, so it's like

486
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: a like a shaved bag almost, you know, like a

487
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: toiletry bag. It looked it looked kind of flatter and

488
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 1: longer than that to Yeah, did to me too. But ye,

489
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: so we had all kinds of stuff online this week

490
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: on Luggage Tuck. Yeah yeah, yeah, And he also had

491
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 1: a purple bag, the trademark purple bag, and so but yeah,

492
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 1: the big bag was gone. He walked to the bus station.

493
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 1: When he got there, the black hole doll was gone.

494
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: So he had either disposed of it somehow, or maybe

495
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: he put it inside his shoulder bag. I'm not really sure.

496
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 1: That's he's the big disposer. Here the bus station. You've

497
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 1: got a cheese sandwich and a capuccino. Um. And while

498
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 1: he was sitting in this table, he pulled out some

499
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,360
Speaker 1: pieces of paper and looked at them. And it's hard

500
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: to tell from the from the video, but it looks

501
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 1: at one point like he's writing something down, and then

502
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: at another point it looks like he could either be

503
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: folding the paper back up or maybe tearing it and

504
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: tearing it up to tell I thought the investigator said

505
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: that he had torn it up. Yeah, it sounded like

506
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 1: he said that, but you see it all over the

507
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: internet that he's tearing it up. And when I looked

508
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: at it, because it was folded into quarters when he

509
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 1: opened it and it looked like he had folded it again,

510
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: was almost folding rolling it back into the smallest ball

511
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: of paper possible. Yeah, that's possible. It was really hard

512
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: to tell. And his bust didn't leave until to twenty,

513
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: so between the incident with the pieces of paper and

514
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: to twenty, he apparently got rid of the shoulder bag

515
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: and the purple bag because um well, he went to

516
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 1: the beach after this, and the beach was where he

517
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: was found dead. The next morning, and they weren't. Ross's point,

518
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 1: they weren't. They weren't. Those items were not found on

519
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: the beach. They also don't you see him boarding the

520
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: bus on CCTV. Yeah, and he doesn't have Yeah, so

521
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: he disposed of those things. Yeah, again without a camera

522
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: seeing him, though with a camera seeing But here's here's

523
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 1: the thing about it is it would be very easy

524
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: to missay a pair of underwear that gets the city dump.

525
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: But they had seen him multiple times with the purple bag,

526
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: and then when they were at the dump going through everything,

527
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,239
Speaker 1: that purple bag should have really stood out like a

528
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: sore thumb, but they didn't find it dump. It's well,

529
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: he's at the bus depot, and it's very possible for

530
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: him to have stuffed that stuff into the shoulder bag

531
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: and then intentionally left it in the men's room, knowing

532
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,679
Speaker 1: that somebody's gonna go, oh, free bag of stuff. I

533
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: wonder what's in here, because people do that garbage all

534
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: the time and just wandered away. And the guy watching

535
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: the footage isn't gonna go, well, that's weird. There's a

536
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: there's a totally different guy with the same kind of

537
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: He's not going to notice that at all. Yeah, although

538
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 1: it's a very distinctive purple bag. I mean even but

539
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: if it's jammed in the shoulder bag this other it's

540
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: not going to stand. We're saying. Then that guy gets

541
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: on a bus and like or wanders away or something.

542
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: He's eventually going to throw it away, though, isn't he? Okay? Well,

543
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: you know, there's this story is full of so many

544
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: leaps of faith, and that I'm going to make the

545
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,400
Speaker 1: leap of faith that he left town with this other

546
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 1: person's shoulter bag and then threw it away. It could be.

547
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: It could but you know the problem is is that

548
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 1: it's unpredictable, so somebody might find it in the men's

549
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 1: room and uh and turn it into lost and found. Yeah,

550
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: that seems like a risk that he may not have

551
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: been really willing to take. Yeah, so anyway, what happened

552
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 1: to those things? I don't know. He flushed him, Yeah,

553
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 1: that's so anyway, you gotta he caught his bus. He

554
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 1: bought it one way to take it out to the

555
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 1: beach that afternoon and evening. He was seen by lots

556
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 1: of witnesses on the beach for as many a sixteen

557
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: Nobody saw the bag, the purple bag, or the shoulder bag.

558
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: But one woman reported that he had a newspaper under

559
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: his arm. It's okay, I guess, And if he's getting

560
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 1: rid of everything, it seems weird that he'd picked up

561
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: a newspaper. Well, you know, yeah, he had some time

562
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 1: to kill because I got a feeling like he didn't

563
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: go for a swim until after dark. And it turns

564
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:18,120
Speaker 1: out so he didn't write because somebody saw him at something. Yeah. Yeah,

565
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,880
Speaker 1: that's and the sun doesn't even sit there until ten

566
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 1: ten on that date. Yeah, um, And so yeah, he

567
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: would have if he wanted to wait until after dark

568
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: so nobody would witness it and maybe try to save him,

569
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 1: then it would have been pretty late. And somebody did

570
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: see him. They're quite late. Yeah. Apparently when they found

571
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: the body the next day at six five am, he

572
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: had apparently stripped down to his his underwear and a

573
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: T shirt. That's still a modest guy, and he put

574
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: on a speedo over the top of the shorts, which

575
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: is weird. Yeah, also weird that he would put I

576
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: mean weird in general, right, I mean, if he was

577
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: trying to kill himself, why bother with a swimsuit? With

578
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: a speedo, and so I think he was probably a

579
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: modest guy. Yeah, but pis the modest guy. Why is

580
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: he putting on a speedough? Well, also, like, why isn't

581
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: he just wearing his pants? I mean, why isn't he

582
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: just wearing his clothes? There? Actually it's that's a better

583
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: way to drown, if you wear your clothes. Yeah. So, yeah,

584
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: you'll drown a lot faster that way. So they find

585
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: the body about three meters done the beach. They found

586
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: the rest of his stuff, which was his shoes, socks, trousers, sweater, uh,

587
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: the black leather jacket. In his pockets they found some

588
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: cash and a packet of tissues, some sheets of blank paper,

589
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: aspirin tablets, a wristwatch, and some soap from a hotel,

590
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: probably the city hotel. And that was all. No wallet,

591
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: no passport, nothing, And that was one of the they discovered.

592
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: The tags been taken out of his clothes. It's possible

593
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: that he intended to be swept out to sea and

594
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,239
Speaker 1: then just disappear, although at the same time, I don't know,

595
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: because then maybe he wouldn't have left all his clothes

596
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: and stuff on the beach if he intended to just

597
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: vanish off the face of the earth. Yeah, it's weird, Yeah,

598
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: because I mean if I if I had intended to

599
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: have vanish, you know, by swimming out to see first

600
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: of all, you gotta pay tention to the tide tables,

601
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: and apparently he didn't. And also you gotta make arrangements

602
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: for your clothes and stuff to go away, especially if

603
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: you're like trying to get rid of everything. Right, that's

604
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: my problem with he was trying to erase his existence, Like,

605
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 1: then why didn't he just go with all his clothes on?

606
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: Why leave anything? But yeah, well what I would have

607
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: done is I would have taken the clothes off and

608
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: I would have brought a plastic garbage bag from town

609
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: and stuffed everything in there, squeezed all the air out

610
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: of it, and and then all by the way, put some

611
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: big rocks in there for wait, and then tie out

612
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: all shut and take it out to sea with me. Yeah,

613
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: and when you drowned, you let it go. And yeah,

614
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: but again yeah, it's it's that's that seems like an

615
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: extra step, and it's an extra complicated step. But if

616
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: you really truly wanted to vanish without a trace, that

617
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: would be the way to do it. But you gotta

618
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: pick the right time, you gotta you gotta jump into

619
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: the water right at high tide and go to your

620
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: drown and then and then then then then maybe he

621
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: would not have been washed back up on the beach.

622
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: As you know, we've already talked about the police's belief

623
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: that he was disposing he was personal property, and they

624
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: decided that the death was a suicide. And then he

625
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: had come to Slow I Go specifically for this purpose,

626
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: of course, because probably had terminal cancer. It appears he did,

627
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: and he was disposing of his stuff. And again my

628
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: problem with this is it's a lot of trouble to

629
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: go to for something that's very easily accomplished in dairy

630
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: by just throwing it all away. Yeah. The question is then,

631
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: if his personal possessions weren't in the purple bag being

632
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: distributed all over town, then what was in the bag? Yeah? Yeah,

633
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: So I've put together a few theories. Yeah, oh boy,

634
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: what was in the purple bag? Okay? Theory number one

635
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: beer cans? Suppose he was a raging alcoholic and are

636
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: he was celebrating his impending in and so he but

637
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: he was embarrassed. Had the cleaning lady find all these

638
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: empties in his room, so he trucked him out and

639
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: got rid of the mil square. Yeah, I don't know

640
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: about No, I don't think so either. Actually, if you

641
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: look at if you look at the bags, you can't

642
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: you can't. You obviously can't see what's in the bags.

643
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: But what's outlined to me is more angular and not

644
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: beer hand shaped or whiskey bottle shaped. So that's that,

645
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: that kind of but I just thought i'd throw that

646
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: theory in there. Yeah. By the way, did either of

647
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: you noticed that there was a really particular bit of

648
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: footage that I saw and it was just kind of

649
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: strange of him. Stay, he pops out of a door

650
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: when he's inside the hotel, and the camera catches him

651
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: walking out of this door, you know, hallway against another

652
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: door behind him, and he stands there and likes his cigarette.

653
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: He's just sitting standing there smoking, Like it's weird that

654
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: he is just randomly walking around and then hides in

655
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: a hallway to have a cigarette. That that bit of footage, too,

656
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: is like odd to me because it's clearly the same person,

657
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: but he looks so different. I wonder if it's the

658
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: angle of the camera it is the angle of the camera.

659
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: But it's that, you know, you have that perception that

660
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: you because he kind of looks like he's older, older

661
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: and kind of maybe you know, a little a little

662
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: slower and a little like hunch more like of a

663
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: friendly neighbor, like like a little bit of like a Mr.

664
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: Rogers type guy, right sweater. Yeah, and all of them

665
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: except for that one bit of footage when he's like

666
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: out there smoking, he looks like a totally different It's

667
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: it was very weird to me seeing that bit. It

668
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,239
Speaker 1: was like I recognized that the same human being like

669
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: in flesh, but it looks like it doesn't look like

670
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: the same guy to me at all. Which, yeah, so

671
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: that that's been struck. Yeah, he moved really fast. If

672
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: he knows he was power smoking like he was take

673
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: a drag exhale, Take a drag exhale, Take a drag

674
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: exhale that fast. It seemed like in the footage which

675
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: was just he was really moving really kind of rapidly.

676
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: Where is you when you walk him everywhere else he's

677
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: kind of trunned a little along. He pushes the doors

678
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: standing there. Ye, maybe he was having an anxiety attack.

679
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: He needed some nicotine to calm him down. Maybe maybe

680
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: Well there is that whole thing about the staff walking

681
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: into his room when he was in there and surprising him.

682
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: Maybe shortly after that, and he was whigged out for whatever, maybe,

683
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: And I really want to talk about that very much,

684
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: because I don't I don't think it really meant much

685
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: of anything. I don't think it means much either. It's

686
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: it's just another bit of oddness. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah,

687
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: this this this sort of she sort of implies like

688
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: he was like really relieved it was her and not

689
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,919
Speaker 1: somebody else, like maybe his life was in danger. I'm

690
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 1: guessing more it's he was relieved that it was a

691
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: person he recognized and not some random person walking into

692
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: his room. Could have been that, you know, I mean

693
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: as far as as far as you know, if he

694
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 1: was being pursued by somebody or his life was in danger,

695
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think so, because when you see

696
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,760
Speaker 1: him walking around town, he's not looking over his shoulder

697
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,439
Speaker 1: at all. Yeah. About the cigarette smoking incident, that makes

698
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: me suddenly realized something, which is that in the in

699
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 1: his pockets they didn't find any cigarettes or matches. They

700
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 1: didn't weird. Yeah, maybe he gave up gave it up. Yeah,

701
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: it could have been. I don't know, but he was

702
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: walking on the beach for quite a while. Nobody reported

703
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: seeing him smoking a cigarette there. Maybe that was his

704
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: one cigarette of the week. They smoked him. Let's move

705
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 1: on to our next theory. Uh, maybe he just stuffed

706
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 1: random stuff in there and left the hotel and came

707
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: back with the stuff random stuff gone because he just

708
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 1: knew he was being videotaped and he thought he'd create

709
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: a mystery. He deliberately created his own little unsolved mystery.

710
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: You loved making this a theory and just about everyone

711
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: you can, because he's going to do that. Yeah, I

712
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: just that's what I gotta do. And my last thought

713
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: is that perhaps what was in there was money. So um,

714
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: and this splits into two theories, which is one, he

715
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,720
Speaker 1: was leaving the hotel with a bag full of money

716
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: and every time he would and he had he had

717
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: figured out somehow he had gone around town and figured

718
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: out some very very good hiding spots that were safe,

719
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: and he was stashing the money in these hiding spots.

720
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 1: And then possibly that's maybe that's why he bought those stamps,

721
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: just because he wanted to send letters to friends and

722
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 1: relatives and tell him where to come to get the money.

723
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 1: I also found there was a guy about eleven months later,

724
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: a guy in Sluger named geles Ford was arrested in

725
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: May two thousand ten, and he happened to have two

726
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: thousand euros on him in fifth year old notes rolled

727
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: up in his pocket. Uh. And he was, according to

728
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 1: the police quote, never known to work. He was believed

729
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 1: by the police to be involved in the drug business.

730
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: But at the same time, if he had a lot

731
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 1: of fifty year old notes, unlikely. Yeah. You're gonna have

732
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: all kinds of denominations, right, You're going to have small denomination.

733
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, lots of that. And as it happens, the

734
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 1: apartment where he lived at the time of his arrest

735
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: is just right around the corner from the hotel. Yeah.

736
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: So I wonder did giles Ford stumbled across the stash

737
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: of Bergman's cash. Yeah, I don't know. Of course, this

738
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: is all this is all sheer speculation. But I still

739
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 1: like my theory better than the police theory. Yeah. Another

740
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 1: reason you know he might have the Bergman might have

741
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: done this is that he might have been the kind

742
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: of guy that would enjoy leading his relatives and friends

743
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,359
Speaker 1: on an Easter egg hunt. You know who knows. Maybe

744
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: he maybe he planned a whole series of clues for

745
00:36:55,320 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 1: people to find the hidden treasure. Hidden. Yeah, a play,

746
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: And if if those guys managed to miss any of them,

747
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 1: there might still be some big wads of cash laying

748
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: around South Sligo somewhere. Let's go to money number two.

749
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: So it was nice. The second thing thought is that

750
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: he brought it to Sligo to maybe park it with

751
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: an attorney or as they call him over there, solicitors

752
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: or barristers. I'm thinking the reason he might have done

753
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 1: this would have been to perhaps avoid inheritance taxes, which

754
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: in some countries and the in Europe can be rather high,

755
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: like the UK and France. So if he was planning

756
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: on on dying, uh, And let's say he had a

757
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: house and a lot of money and savings and investments,

758
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: he might have just left the house as is, but

759
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 1: cashed out everything else and then brought it in a

760
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: big suitcase to look down like Sligo where perhaps, as

761
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: I said before, he perhaps he had been there before,

762
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: perhaps he already had himself an attorney there, so he

763
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 1: shows up, he shows up kind of late on Friday.

764
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:54,879
Speaker 1: When he showed up on Friday was I think about

765
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: six dirty sligo time, and so it might have been

766
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 1: too late to go visit his attorney, but he probably

767
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 1: contacted him maybe on Saturday and started. And obviously he

768
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: doesn't want to walk out of the hotel carrying his

769
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: whole big suitcase full of money, so he takes it

770
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 1: out in the small batches in his purple bag. This

771
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: also has a security component to it too, where as

772
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 1: if against rob or if he loses it, well, he's

773
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: not losing the entire kiddie, He's just losing part of it.

774
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: That's true. Yeah, well but my but my question is

775
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 1: if he's got a bag full of cash, so well,

776
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 1: let's say it was all in the bigger piece of

777
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 1: luggage that he had. That thing would have been really heavy,

778
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: which you would imagine we would see him kind of

779
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: struggling with that bag as he walks around. And I

780
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: never got that impression, you know, as he would kind

781
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 1: of get pulled off balanced by its way here there

782
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: that I never saw that. Yeah, No, I agree, it

783
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 1: didn't look like a weight a time, but I mean

784
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: it might have been at the bulk of the cash

785
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: was in there, but the rest of it was in

786
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: the shoulder bag. And also waste length leather jacket has

787
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: tends to have lots of large pockets in it. So

788
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: I mean he could have had the money distributed all

789
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 1: over the play. True, he could have worn the money.

790
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: You could yeah, I mean you could. Yeah. So I

791
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: mean he could have had large sums of money on them.

792
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: But okay, But of course for the solicitor that he

793
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: leaves all this money with, this would seem a little fishy.

794
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: And I think that I a solicitor, upon finding that

795
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 1: Bergman has died, would realize that probably what Bergman was

796
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: doing was trying to evade inherance taxes. So next question

797
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 1: is is would he be in any obligation to report

798
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: this to the authorities? And it turns out now, so

799
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: I want to take this. I want to take a

800
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: moment to thank our listener Gavin, who is in the

801
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: legal profession in the UK, and you gave me lots

802
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: of good information regarding attorney client privilege there and it's

803
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: very similar to what it is in the US. If

804
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 1: I hire you, you're supposed to keep my secrets. So

805
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: if you suspect wrong doing, you can report it, but

806
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 1: there's a good chance that you'll be sued. And it's

807
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 1: just not something that's not a path that most lawyers

808
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: are going to choose to go down. You just you

809
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: need to keep your clients secrets. Do you keep your

810
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: mouth shut? You need to keep your mouth shut. Yeah,

811
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: you know. But again, this is all speculation on my part.

812
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: It might be also that he just knew somebody who

813
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: was a trustworthy person in Slago and left the money

814
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,240
Speaker 1: with them. It could be he knew somebody in Slago

815
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: he wanted to give the money to. Or it could

816
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 1: be that that there was not money in the purple

817
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: bag to begin with. I don't know. I like I

818
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: just like the money idea, of course, did yeah, yeah,

819
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: oh yeah, okay, So that's the money theory. You guys

820
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: have any more thoughts on that, the money theory. The

821
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: money theory wasn't money, Yeah, last theory. It was his

822
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: Barbie doll collection. And you can see why he didn't

823
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 1: want to get rid of that. That's the weirdest you

824
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 1: and your theories. Yeah. So, anyway, which of all the theories,

825
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 1: which one are you guys are gonna go with? You're

826
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 1: gonna go with personal possessions or money. Well, I'm surprised

827
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: that you didn't bring up the possibility of foul play. Um.

828
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 1: I know that the autopsy didn't show that he was

829
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: strangled or anything like that, but it doesn't mean that

830
00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 1: somebody didn't drown him. Um, it's entirely possible some of

831
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:01,919
Speaker 1: a couple of guys could have grabbed him and hauled

832
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: him out to see and drowned him. Yeah, and I

833
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: mean I mean, would they have they have like stripped

834
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: him and then dressed him as a speedo before or

835
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 1: after they drowned him. I don't know. I don't know,

836
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,240
Speaker 1: but I don't think that's what happened, but I've seen

837
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 1: speculation of that. I mean, this, this story is just

838
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: full of so many possibilities, and people seem to just

839
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: get on fire about each and every one of them.

840
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 1: Do you want to hear a ridiculous one that I

841
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: stumbled upon. It's it's super super dumb, it's a really

842
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: weak But I stumbled on this when I was looking

843
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:39,320
Speaker 1: for information about Peter Bergman's obituary, because I was thinking, Oh,

844
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 1: they found a dead guy, they'll be an obituary. Not

845
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: so in Ireland, however, on April eighteenth of the same year,

846
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: a fifty nine year old man named Peter Bergman died

847
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: in New York City. Yeah, maybe it's him. Yeah, I mean,

848
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like, of all of the tenuous like threads, like,

849
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,280
Speaker 1: was the Bergman spelled the same with winds at the end? Okay,

850
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 1: I think I saw the same one. I came across

851
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: an obituary for the other Peter Bergman who was eight

852
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 1: seven when he died, the guy who worked with Einstein. Yeah,

853
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 1: not this, but this guy died what a month? Yeah,

854
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: that was a few months before. That's one of the

855
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 1: things that made me wonder about that is, um, I

856
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: thought for sex for a moment occurred to me that like, well,

857
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: was this guy related to this Peter Bergman? Did you

858
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: know this Peter Bourbon and take his name? So obviously

859
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: he's not the same guy, but maybe he somehow had

860
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: some connection with this Peter Bergman who had died more recently,

861
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: or maybe it was Peter Bergman was like there was

862
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: some final business to take care of. He got ill,

863
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 1: he baked his own death, went over there, tried to

864
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: like even more cover up who he was by affecting

865
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 1: a very deep accent giving a place of different I

866
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 1: don't know. Again, like I said, super dumb, but I

867
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,919
Speaker 1: like it. But there's there's somebody actually put that theory

868
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: out there. Did you make okay? Cool? Yeah? You know,

869
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: here's another thing that that I've couldn't believe that nobody

870
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: has looked into, and I we don't hear have the

871
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 1: resources to do it. But that address that he gave

872
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: in Vienna, it's an empty lot. Chances are good it

873
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,399
Speaker 1: was not always an empty lot, and so it would

874
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,879
Speaker 1: be interesting to find out what was there before two

875
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: then maybe you know, if it was a house. Yeah,

876
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: because it's weird to like just pull out of thin

877
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: air say oh, yeah, this is my address and it

878
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 1: just happens to be an empty lot. Well, it's possible.

879
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: It's it's entirely possible, just by random chance, random chance.

880
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: Or it could be that he knew that address from

881
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 1: some point in time. You could try and pin things

882
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 1: backwards that way, you might, you know. The The thing

883
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: about it is, too is we still don't know for

884
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: certainty that he was totally trying to conceal his identity

885
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: and disappear, but apparently it was. But he might have

886
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: actually owned that vacant lot. Yeah, you know, I mean,

887
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody's bother to check land ownership records.

888
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 1: I think they would have. Yeah, you could also check

889
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 1: adjacent properties to and and you can almous as you say,

890
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: go back, I mean last stuff change his hands. So yeah,

891
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:19,240
Speaker 1: I personally think that was probably mostly randomness. That's probably

892
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: as we could have done what I would have done,

893
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:23,479
Speaker 1: which is, you know, go out, go to Google street

894
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 1: view and wait till you go and find an empty

895
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 1: lot and then grab the address off the street view.

896
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: Street view wasn't a thing, probably not quiet, it wasn't

897
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: mean yeah, yeah, but online maps were a thing, and

898
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 1: he could have gone and figured out what it was. Yeah. Yeah, Well, anyway,

899
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: that's it for the theories. I'm going to go for

900
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 1: the money, um, just because I like it better, but

901
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: also because if you look at the contents of the

902
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 1: bag when he leaves with most of his personal possessions

903
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 1: would have been closed almost you know, almost all of

904
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: them would have been closed, and so the bag would

905
00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: have had a nice round you look to it, and

906
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 1: instead it looks like he's carrying angular something some corners,

907
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 1: you know, what, something that's got corners. Yeah, and so

908
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 1: that's the other reason. Almost every time you see that bag,

909
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 1: it's got something kind of kind of squash it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

910
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, it could be. It would also

911
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 1: help explain why he was kind of startled when somebody

912
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: came in. Yeah. Maybe he was busy stuff in his

913
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 1: purple bag for the cash. Yeah, or maybe he was

914
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 1: up to something worse, you know, you know, I mean,

915
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: it could have been up to something embarrassing that happens sometimes.

916
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 1: That he did say that felt you just say he

917
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 1: was he had this look in his face like he

918
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: was doing something he wasn't supposed to be doing. So,

919
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:42,439
Speaker 1: you know, you never know. Yeah, I'm I'm undecided on this.

920
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: I do not think that the whole thing was a

921
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 1: giant suicide set up. I don't. I don't think that

922
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 1: that was the plan. But what happened really I think

923
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: So you think his death, his death was an accident,

924
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 1: then well I don't think that he went there with

925
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: this grand built up scheme to then swim out to

926
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: see and disappear. I think I don't know that he

927
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 1: you know, that he died on purpose. It's entirely possible

928
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,320
Speaker 1: that he wanted to go swimming and was a weirdo

929
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 1: about swimming at night and went too far, swam out

930
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 1: to see too far. I mean, I don't know if

931
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,760
Speaker 1: either of you had done this, but it's very easy

932
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: to be swimming and not realize how far you've gone

933
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 1: and then suddenly realize how tired you are. And I

934
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: have thought I was going to drown before because I

935
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 1: was positive I wasn't gonna make it because I don't float.

936
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 1: I think like a rock. And there's there's there's such

937
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 1: things as reptides and currents and stuff like that too.

938
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 1: You know, there's there's all sorts of ways. But I

939
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 1: don't I don't think he intended to come back to

940
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: Shore alive, my personally, because I mean he was out

941
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: there really late, you know, and a long, long walk

942
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: from town that was miles from town, and you're gonna

943
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 1: go for a swim. He didn't bring a towel with him,

944
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 1: by the way, gonna go for a swim, and then,

945
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: by the way, good luck getting transportation back to town. Yeah,

946
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, it's sad too because the poor

947
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: old guy I wandered around town for for days, you know,

948
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: just with his purple bag. Hardly talked to him, talked

949
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,760
Speaker 1: to staff, and I that really is kind of hit. Yeah, yeah,

950
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: and he didn't he didn't interact much with anybody. And

951
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 1: then he went out to the beach that afternoon and

952
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: just walked up and down the beach for hours and

953
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: because but he talked to him then either no, not

954
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: really like he said hi, and he never really said

955
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 1: anything back. He did not politely and move on. Yeah,

956
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: but of course he had to. He had if he

957
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: was planning and killing himself, he probably had bigger things

958
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 1: on his mind. Yeah. A tough, a tough thing. And

959
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 1: I feel bad for the guy. But obviously, you know,

960
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 1: he made if he did indeed commit suicide, obviously he

961
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: felt the alternative, which was you know, agonizing death by cancer,

962
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: was worse, you know, And I guess I can't blame him.

963
00:47:54,680 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: It's just too bad that he had to make that choice. Yeah, agreed. Well, okay, anyway,

964
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: after that ray of sunshine, I know, I know I've

965
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,720
Speaker 1: got you all depressed. If you guys have any thoughts

966
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 1: on this, any theories of your own, or if you

967
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,800
Speaker 1: happen to have found a big chunk of cash and sligo,

968
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 1: we would love to hear it. From you. Yeah, yeah,

969
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 1: we would totally like to hear from you. So you

970
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,280
Speaker 1: can reach us at our email address at Thinking Sideways

971
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 1: podcast at gmail dot com. We also have a website

972
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: where you can download our episodes and listen to them.

973
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:28,879
Speaker 1: You can. We'll have links up there where you can

974
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: follow some of the information that we're pertaining to this topic,

975
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: and you can, of course leave comments. Please leave nice comments.

976
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 1: We prefer those. Uh. You can also find us on iTunes.

977
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 1: If you do, then please subscribe and leave us a review,

978
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 1: preferably a really good review. Uh. You can also stream us.

979
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,839
Speaker 1: You can stream us from damn near anywhere, so that's that.

980
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,359
Speaker 1: Find us on Facebook, we have our page. We also

981
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 1: have a group. We're also on Twitter, so we are

982
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways that's without the G and we are also

983
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 1: on Patreon if you don't know, it is a service

984
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: where you can basically pledge a certain amount of money

985
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: per episode if you want to support the podcast. It's

986
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 1: entirely optional, but if you feel like doing that, that

987
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: would be great. Anyway, that's it for this week. You

988
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 1: guys have any last I think we've we've run this

989
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:22,280
Speaker 1: one dry, yeah, I think so. Okay, bye everybody. By guys,