1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Welcome back to it could happen here a podcast that 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: is today about it happening here or or more particularly 3 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: in Atlanta. So so it's here if you happen to 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: live in Atlanta, Georgia. Otherwise it is it is still 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: happening there. Um. And I don't actually know much about 6 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: this because, like the rest of you, I have been 7 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: watching from the sidelines since a forest defender was killed 8 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: by the Georgia State Police. But someone who has been 9 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: in Atlanta for most of the last week is Garrison Davis. Garrison, Hi, Hi, 10 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: it's been a long week. Yeah, it sounds like it. 11 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: You uh had just gotten back from c e S 12 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 1: when all this happened and booked, booked the next flight 13 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: and flew out and we're on the ground during uh, 14 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: some of the immediate protests that followed news about the death. 15 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: Do you do you want to just kind of take 16 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: it from here. Yeah, So we're gonna be putting together 17 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 1: kind of a more in depth thing similar to my 18 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: similar to my on the Ground to Defend the Atlanta 19 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: Forest episodes from last May. That is that's that's gonna 20 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: come out, But you know, it'll take a little bit 21 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: because I'm doing a lot of interviews, doing a lot 22 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: of on the ground stuff here. Um, but this is 23 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: important enough that I feel like it's it's worth that 24 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: it was. It was worth mentioning something a bit sooner, 25 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: which is why we're recording here today just to kind 26 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: of give a one oh one on what's been going 27 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: on ever since Wednesday. So Wednesday, January there was a 28 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: raid on the Wollawnee Forest or the South River Forest 29 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: in Atlanta where people have been currently staying in encampments 30 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 1: for the past like a year and a half in 31 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: opposition of this upcoming proposed police training facility to be 32 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: built on this same land. So Wednesday morning there was 33 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: this raid. Um. There's a few things different about this raid. 34 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: One it seemed to be in some ways kind of 35 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: led by the Georgia State Patrol. Um. This is, uh, 36 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: you know, a state, a state run police that has 37 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: not been in this force before. Other raids have been 38 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: coordinated between a Decabb County police in Atlanta police. So 39 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: the SWAT team was was unfamiliar with the forest, they 40 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: had not been in there before. There was there was 41 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: other police on on site. This was an inter agency thing. 42 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: There was It does seem like there was Atlanta police 43 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: here as well. But this started at around eight am 44 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: and then at around nine am we got word that uh, 45 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,519 Speaker 1: a forest defender was shot and killed by it seems 46 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: like in an estate patrol officer that they are not 47 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: releasing the name of nor are they releasing the name 48 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: of one other officer who was injured. UM and George. 49 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: Georgia State Patrol claims that they were shot during this 50 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: raid as well. Police by Day Yes, police police claim 51 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: that they were shot by the person that the Georgia 52 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: State Patrol killed. There's very little information about this UM 53 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: no body cameras. They have said that there's no no 54 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: body cam, which does seem consistent because Georgia State Patrol 55 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: are not are not required to wear body cam. So 56 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: that obviously hit a lot of people pretty hard because 57 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: this is um to our knowledge, the first like you know, 58 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: environmental ist protester to be killed by police. It's the 59 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: first fatality that we've had in the in this in 60 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: this movement here in Atlanta. And for the record, it 61 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: is still deeply unclear what happened. It's certainly not impossible 62 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: that this person fired first on the police officer, but 63 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: it's it's also incredibly important to note that there is 64 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: no evidence of this that's been presented. The only evidence 65 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: that the police have presented is a photo of a 66 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: of a pistol on the ground. UM. And then they've 67 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: made the very weasily word to claim that UM ballistics 68 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: testing has shown that the bullet that struck the officer 69 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: was consistent with the gun that they're saying with the 70 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: individual they killed had. And all that means said it 71 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: was nine millimeter. That was the same caliber, right, a 72 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: caliber for which there are tens of millions of guns 73 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 1: in this country. UM. Most ballistic science is in terms 74 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: of like identifying bullets to guns is actually nonsense. There 75 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 1: have been massive lawsuits about this, the FBI, UM has 76 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: has this is a bigger topic than than we can 77 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: get into today. But it's very shady. And all that 78 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: they actually said is the cop was shot with a 79 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: nine millimeter and hey, look we found a nine millimeter. 80 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: Not interestingly enough, we have confirmed that this gun was fired. UM. 81 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: So very anyway, so no one knows what's happened. It's 82 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: it's it's shady. I mean, so I've I got I 83 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: got here like less than twenty four hours later. A 84 00:04:58,200 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: lot of people on the ground have been kind of 85 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 1: shared their memories of the person that was killed. So 86 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: the person was named their Their forest name was Tortuguita, 87 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: which means little turtle. Their name that has been released 88 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 1: is uh Manuel Um. I'm just gonna I'm gonna call 89 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: them tortuga or torch Um. Sure, there's been people of 90 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: you know, spent a lot of the past few days 91 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: talking about tort remembering tort Um, the types of things 92 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: that that they advocated for, the types of things that 93 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: they would talk about. So we'll we'll we'll get into 94 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: some of the more kind of specifics of that of 95 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: that of that later. UM. But a number of other 96 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 1: journalists have talked about their conversations with with towards including 97 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 1: um the fact that they evinced a pretty principled um 98 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: and and extensive commitment to non violence UM, at least 99 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: in interviews. This is something they had been quoted on 100 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: by an other journalists a number of times. And this 101 00:05:58,160 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: is something I've heard a lot of people bring up. 102 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: Is that is that Toward was was a believer in 103 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: in non violence and would and would talk about and 104 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: advocate that. The other the other kind of angle to 105 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: this and I'm not taking a position one way or 106 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 1: another here, but this is something that I think it's 107 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 1: important to mention is that I also don't want to 108 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: remove the agency of a person if they did decide 109 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: to do if I, if I did if they did 110 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 1: decide to do this, Because the other thing I've heard 111 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 1: a lot about Towards is that they always made thoughtful decisions, 112 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: in the meaning that they put thought into everything they did. Um, 113 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 1: they were they acted strategically. They did not they did 114 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: not put people in unnecessary danger. They would not do 115 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 1: something if they thought it would endanger other people. They 116 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 1: always acted with thought and that that that could include 117 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: if you feel like your life is under immediate threat. Um, 118 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 1: what what actually happened Wednesday morning? We will probably never know. 119 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: We will never know the exact series of events. Yeah, 120 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: and it's and in some ways like that's we can 121 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: we should respect Towards either way, Um, because they made 122 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: a decision that they thought that was right in the moment, 123 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: or they were just flat out murdered by police. Um. 124 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: So that's that's kind of the gist of of what 125 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: happened Wednesday morning. Throughout the rest of the day, their 126 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: police continued their raid on the forest. The last the 127 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: last tree sitter was eventually taken down like twenty hours 128 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: later after the raids. That someone was stuck up in 129 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: a tree for over twenty hours, no food or water. UM, 130 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: police agitating them the entire time, and many all of 131 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: all the other people arrested. I think a total around 132 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: seven got charged with the domestic terrorism among other charges. 133 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: So that's pretty significant. UM. That is people. That's that 134 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: and we will circle back to this to this point 135 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: a little bit later. So that is that is what 136 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: happened on Wednesday. Uh, you know, the first few hours 137 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: after the shooting, people were unsure of of who actually 138 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: got killed. It was it was hard, it was hard 139 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: to say. UM. Other force defenders who were in the 140 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: area did report from that what they heard there was 141 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: a pretty a pretty quick single firing of of guns, 142 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: multiple guns going off in a pretty quick succession. There 143 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: was no like one shot and then seconds later a 144 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: bunch of other shots. It was all kind of one event. 145 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: This is reports from people on the ground. This is 146 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: what this is what they've said. UM. A lot of 147 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: a lot of people speculate that this could have been 148 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: friendly fire. If if this, if this, if this, if 149 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: this other patrol officer was was, um, you know, got shot. 150 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: They went to the hospital. So it doesn't it doesn't 151 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: police officer had got a bullet inside of them. Um. 152 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: But obviously there's a number of ways in which that 153 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: could have occurred. And I don't find it. I certainly, 154 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: I don't think it's constue oratory at all, conspiratorial at 155 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: all to say they have not presented evidence. It is 156 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: certainly possible that a bunch of cops wandering through the forest, 157 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: somebody would have a negligent discharge, you know, somebody would 158 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: just pant. You know, there's enough we and again, as 159 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: you've stated, we just we probably will never know precisely 160 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: what happened. Um. And that's that's that's the feeling on 161 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: the ground. A lot of people coming to terms with 162 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: the fact that we will never know, a lot of people, 163 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: you know, thinking that it's you know, very likely chance 164 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: of his friendly fire. Other people you know, trying to 165 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: trying to emphasize the fact that, you know, we will 166 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: never know if we cannot say one way, they or another. 167 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: But it's also important not to minimize someone's autonomy, especially 168 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: since they're no longer around to advocate for themselves or 169 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: their actions. Yeah, let's go, let's have a let's have 170 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: an ad break, and then we'll kind of continue on 171 00:09:50,679 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: to what happened in the in the days after we're back, Garrison, 172 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: please continue to take it away. So the late the 173 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: day of the shooting, there was a vigil before we 174 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 1: found out who it was. There was a vigil set 175 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: up at Little Five Points in Atlanta, and then the 176 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: next two days there was, uh, there was a vigil 177 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: space created at Entrenchment Creek Park or Woolani People's Park. Uh. 178 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: This is an area of the forest that's too that's 179 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: on like the eastern side, and this is the section 180 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: that is currently being sought as a place to expand 181 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: Black Hole Movie Studios. So this is this is separate 182 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: from the actual Cops City element of this, but it's 183 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: still part of the defend the Atlanta Forest side of 184 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: this because this is all the same forest. They're just 185 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: kind of split um down the middle by this by 186 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: this power line cut. So this section of the park 187 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: is on a section of land that's contestedly owned by 188 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: Ryan Millsap, the guy runs Black Hall Studios. I first 189 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: arrived at at the Willini People's Park on Friday for 190 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: the for like the more public facing vigil and I 191 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: just just kind of I want to talk a bit 192 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: about the park because this is such a I think 193 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: it's such a solid encapsulation of what's changed since last 194 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,599 Speaker 1: time I've been in Atlanta. So, last time I was 195 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: in Atlanta, there was the Muscogee Creek. People were traveling 196 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: from my belief, Oklahoma to Atlanta what what is now 197 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: Atlanta what what used to be Muskogee land um, And 198 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: they were they were like giving talks and presentations about 199 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: the forest inside the section of forest that that the 200 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 1: defend the land of forest stuff is about. And I 201 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: went to one of those events at in Trenchman Creek Park. 202 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: It was green trees all around, there was a nice gazebo, 203 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: there was a there was a piano inside the gazebo, 204 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: people handing out food. A little kitchen was said up. 205 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: Pretty pretty picturesque, it was. It was pretty. It was 206 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: pretty great. So then when I pulled up to this 207 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: same spot a few days ago, it was like apocalyptic. 208 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: The gazebo has been completely torn down and is laying 209 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: in shambles in the front of the parking lot, like 210 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: for everyone to see. The destroyed remains, all of the 211 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: all of like the the the concrete sidewalks and stuff 212 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 1: have all been torn up and it's just scattered everywhere. 213 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: It's now it's just it's just a massive mud pit. 214 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: It's it's such a different place. Um. And you know 215 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 1: when you when you get there for a vigil, the 216 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: moods not cheery obviously. Um. There was people you know, 217 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: sharing stories of Torrents, singing songs and you know, building 218 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: this like almost like a vigil shrine. Um. So that 219 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: was like the first the first big thing Friday night. UM. 220 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: So a lot of people talked about their memories of 221 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 1: Tort and you know the different things they contributed to, 222 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: not just to defend the Atlanta Forest stuff, but stuff 223 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: across the entire South. They did mutual aid work, um 224 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: and stuff to secure housing for people in Florida. They 225 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: helped defend drag shows in uh in Tennessee. They they 226 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: did they did stuff all all across the South. And 227 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: you know, they had they had allies and accomplices from 228 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: across the South, you know, talking about how great Tort 229 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: was to work with the types of solidarity that Tort 230 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: would show too. Too many many different people So that 231 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: was Friday, and everyone was kind of you could kind 232 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: of feel the almost calm before the storm. In some ways, 233 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: people didn't people didn't really know what was going to 234 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: happen in the coming days, but there was there was 235 00:13:55,840 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: a sense of like eerie quietness. And then Saturday happens. Saturday, 236 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: there is this protest planned meeting in Underground Atlanta, which 237 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: is a spot in downtown Atlanta kind of on this 238 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: south side. I got there for this protest there. Initially 239 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,559 Speaker 1: there was people from this like socialst organization called PSL. 240 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: They they tried to lead the march one way. UM, 241 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: the crowd rejected their authority and was like, no, we're 242 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: not going to go to the Federal District, We're not 243 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: going to go to the CNN Center, which are places 244 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: notorious for getting kettled at UM and they and people 245 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: autonomously redirected the crowd UM North towards the and and 246 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: North is also just so happens to be the direction 247 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: of the Atlanta Police Foundation headquarters, the pseudo union lobbying 248 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: group that is that is behind the big push for 249 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: for Cops City. UM. But before this march started, there 250 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: was similarly, you know, people giving speeches about tort people 251 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: not not speeches, like people just sharing memories of torts. 252 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: So people so that tork can like live on um 253 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: in some way. So people can you know, know about 254 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: them now that they're no longer around, you know, people 255 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: from a local medic collective talking about you know, towards 256 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: towards involvement in that and how much toward cared about, 257 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: you know, helping other people. So this this this march 258 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: starts up um. It was funny. There was a few 259 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: blocks away from this march location. They're just so happened 260 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: to be like a single police car in the street 261 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: but like parked on the wrong side of the road. 262 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: And this police car sees this march coming and it's 263 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: like kind of freaking out. It doesn't know what to do. 264 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: It drives in reverse for like like two blocks, trying 265 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: to find a spot to turn around as the marches 266 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: like increasingly getting closer, Like you could just because you 267 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: could just feel you could feel the anxiety of the 268 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: cop inside this car. He they do not want to 269 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: get surrounded by a crowd. Eventually they're able to back 270 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: up enough to turn around and they get out. They 271 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: are they're zooming away. If you do not want to 272 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: be anywhere near this. And short shortly after people arrive 273 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: at the Atlanta Police Foundation headquarters, windows spontaneously shatter UM. 274 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: As as is expected, a few bank windows also get 275 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: UM get get broken. What Wells Fargo being one of them? Yes, 276 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: R I P. Bank windows of Wells Fargo being another one. 277 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: Wells Fargo is a major contributor to the Atlanta Police Foundation. 278 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: So this happens. Two cop cars that are just you know, 279 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: blocks away, UM, that are sitting completely empty, get there, 280 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: get their windows smashed. You know, there's people, there's there's 281 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: fireworks going off around the crowd. UM. There's there's this 282 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:02,359 Speaker 1: one clip that I that I saw from some some 283 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: some group that was live streaming UM that there was. 284 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: There was a few a few officers like stationed beside 285 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: the Atlantic Police Foundation and as soon as they as 286 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: soon as they heard fireworks, they again similarly just like 287 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: ran away as fast as they could. They were not 288 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: equipped to deal with UM, to deal with us. Fireworks 289 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: were they were the main thing they seem to be 290 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: scared of. So two to two cop cars together winter smashed, UM. 291 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: Fireworks going around. March continues goes for about a few 292 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 1: more blocks and Uh, then corker's notice police police are 293 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: starting to come. Police are approaching, approaching the crowd. Head on, 294 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 1: please start rushing towards the crowd. Um. One they they tackle, 295 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,640 Speaker 1: tackle a few people holding a banner. Um, I think 296 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,959 Speaker 1: they they people. People scatter. The most of the crowd 297 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 1: gets away. Most of the crowd splits up in two 298 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: into two groups. The largest chunk is able to move 299 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: away from police presence. There's you know, people chanting, be water, 300 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: you know, all of all the stuff. So most most 301 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: people do successfully get away. The smaller, smaller section of 302 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 1: people split off another direction. Cops follow. They are able 303 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: to tackle and arrest a few a few more people 304 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: in this in this group. In the end, it looks 305 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: like there was six people arrested. Um, most most people 306 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 1: got away. After all these arrests are happening, people start 307 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: noticing something that in the background a few a few 308 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: blocks previous to where people were marching. Uh, it looks 309 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 1: there looks to be a glowing police car. Uh so 310 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 1: we we we look back, and sure enough in an 311 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 1: Atlanta police car is up in flames, um, complete, completely 312 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: completely glowing, huge, huge flames. So so as that happens, 313 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 1: more and more cops show up. This is where like 314 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: the cops now are like taking over downtown. Um, you know, 315 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: cops with with air fifteen or a er style rifles 316 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: are are going around staring, starting to do patrols. So 317 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: this is like then the night is over at this point. 318 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: Now it's time for like people to scatter and leave, 319 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 1: which is what people did. The the aftermath of this 320 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 1: is super fascinating and unfortunate, if not unexpected. Uh, you know, 321 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: there's been very little statements about the police killing of 322 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: an of of Tortoquita of you know, environmental activist, um 323 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: forest defender, but very very very little statements addressing this 324 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: this matter at all. A huge flood of statements, however, 325 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,880 Speaker 1: exte seeming to be extremely concerned that like a few 326 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: windows were broken and that a cop car got torched. 327 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: This this is and you know this, this is this 328 00:19:55,800 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: is less than a week after Martin Luther King day. Um, 329 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: this is you know, this is. The big quote was 330 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: that the police chief a few hours later declared that 331 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,879 Speaker 1: breaking windows and starting fires is terrorism, which is a 332 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: wild thing for a police chief to say. As the 333 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: mayor stands behind nodding integration It's one of the most 334 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: fascist things that we've that has that has occurred in 335 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 1: the United States. You cannot understate like the severity of yeah, 336 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: like this, the severity of this, of this change in 337 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: the types of framing by the state to describe civil disobedience, 338 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 1: to describe property destruction, to describe vandalism as a form 339 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: of of of domestic terrorism is is appalling. Um. I mean, 340 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: if if this, if this holds up, then in states 341 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: where this is done, there is effectively no longer any 342 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,959 Speaker 1: right to protest. Yeah. And I mean, and we'll get 343 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: into some some of the details of this in a bit, 344 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: even in this in this episode, um. And I think 345 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: the the other side of this is that this is 346 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: something that I've heard people talk about here on the ground, 347 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: is that if if breaking windows is terrorism, right, if 348 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: if if if the destruction of inanimate objects this terrorism, 349 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: what what exactly is destroying an entire forest like this is? 350 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 1: This is like the juxtaposition that people are dealing with 351 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: on the ground right now. So the end the result 352 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: of this is that we got six people who not 353 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: six people who were to be clear arrested completely at random. 354 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: This This was very clear police were tackling anyone they 355 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: could get their hands on. They were not doing targeted arrests. 356 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: They were not going after specific individuals who they suspected 357 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:54,719 Speaker 1: of of like actually doing crimes. Um. They were they 358 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: were tackling random people, as is kind of usual for 359 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 1: these sorts of things. But they have gotten a series 360 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: of ridiculous charges UM, riot, arson, interviewing, interfering with government property, um, 361 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 1: and also domestic terrorism and domestics. So this is domestic terrorism, 362 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: not even for people that are like in the forest, 363 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: just people protesting out on the street. Um, windows were broken. 364 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 1: When windows were broken, there's no evidence of this. The 365 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 1: bail hearings were today as of being recorded. This is 366 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: this is Monday, but bail hearings were today. The judge, 367 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: the judge for the hearings specifically said that these hearings 368 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: are not to litigate the facts of the issue. What 369 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: actually happened doesn't matter. There's there's obviously no evidence to 370 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: support that any of these people arrested did any crimes. 371 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 1: There's there's no evidence that that shows that the specific 372 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: people arrested did anything beyond marching in the street, and 373 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: that does not matter. That that that simply does does 374 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: not matter. The brutality is the point in this case 375 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: to two people have had their bail set at three 376 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty five THO dollars each, So that's over 377 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 1: seven thousand dollars for just two people's bail. The other 378 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: four people arrested were deemed to be from out of 379 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: state by the judge and then thus a flight risk, 380 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: including people that are just like less than ninety minutes 381 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: away in Tennessee. And again this this is like where 382 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: people are born, there's this, there's this, there's this sense 383 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 1: that like people no longer have freedom to choose where 384 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,719 Speaker 1: they live, that people like no longer have any freedom 385 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: of movement, that they no longer have the autonomy to 386 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: go to different places. You know. This is this is 387 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: like in line with the outside agitator angle that's been 388 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,880 Speaker 1: being pushed by governments and media ever since, especially since 389 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 1: this is in line with that sort of stuff. But 390 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: because these people were deemed non local or a flight risk, 391 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: these people are not getting any bond at all. These 392 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: people are going to be held in jail in definitely 393 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: it could this, This could literally be years. The legal 394 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: system is so slow and being held in prison in 395 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: jail for for years with no evidence presented that you 396 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 1: did literally anything wrong. Um. I've talked with a lot 397 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 1: of people, people from Solidarity Fund, which will I'll mention 398 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 1: here at the end, and and you know, just just 399 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: people around like what they're you know, with people are 400 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: getting arrested with no evidence and getting you know, indefinite 401 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: time in prison, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars 402 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: to be released, like the the the obvious abusive power 403 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: by the state, um, the sheer audacity, and uh, you know, 404 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 1: the extreme danger that if these, if these are able 405 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: to to to stick and hold, is incredibly frightening for 406 00:24:54,840 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: any any kind of future, um, any future civil rights 407 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,360 Speaker 1: movement at all like this. It might say that it's 408 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: the strategic use of terror in order to achieve a 409 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: political One might say that, and I mean, it's we're 410 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 1: in Atlantic, the streets they're marching on. There's banners of 411 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: Martin Luther King hanging above us, like it's it's incredibly frustrating. 412 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: The Solidarity Fund, which we interviewed on the show literally 413 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: days before that, well with the episode released days before 414 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: the killing of Tortoquita. But the allancea Solidarity Fund is 415 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 1: providing both legal support and UM and and and bail 416 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,679 Speaker 1: for people arrested for political actions. The previous amount needed 417 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 1: to bail out people was over a hundred thousand dollars, 418 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,479 Speaker 1: which is a lot of money, and now just just 419 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: for two people, it's seven thousand more dollars. So the 420 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 1: Atlantis Solarity Fund desperately needs funds to continue supporting people 421 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: and to continue resisting state repression. UM. We'll talk about 422 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 1: this more once I have my Deep Died episodes out 423 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: on this topic. But it's it's crucial that that if 424 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: if if anyone cares about people's right to protest, to 425 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: people's people's you know, ability to resist state violence. UM, 426 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: then it's it's absolutely crucial that that people support the 427 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: Solidarity Fund right now. Ah. Just just today I went 428 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: to another another kind of vigil um at Emery College 429 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: here in Atlanta. More more people were sharing stories of 430 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: tort um. One person was reading out a letter that 431 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 1: they sent to sent to their UM comrades in Italy 432 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,120 Speaker 1: who are setting up a vigil as well. There's been 433 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: a good amount of international support, as I've seen vigils 434 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: from Germany, UM from Italy. There's been there's been events, demos, rallies, UM, 435 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 1: direct actions and vigils all across the United States UM 436 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: about to defend the Alanta Forest and about the killing 437 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:09,959 Speaker 1: of Tortoquita people. People here absolutely do appreciate the solidarity. 438 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: And the other thing people are saying is that, I mean, 439 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: all of these tactics are meant to scare people away 440 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: from the idea of protesting, and people are still needed 441 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: on the ground here. This fight is not This fight 442 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: is not over. UM, this is this is not this 443 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 1: is not the end. You know, Tactics may have to change, 444 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 1: tactics may have to shift, people may have to approach 445 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: things from from um, you know, different angles. But it's 446 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: not over, and there's there's people have said that there's 447 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: still a need or you know, for support, rules, for 448 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,120 Speaker 1: people on the ground, for people to be in Atlanta, 449 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: because it's not done. I mean, I think there's a 450 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: lot of sentiment on the left that's happening in the 451 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: Atlanta Forest defense is probably the most important radical action 452 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: going on in the country right now. And I think 453 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,719 Speaker 1: there's a few reasons for that. Um, not just the 454 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 1: fact that the forest that is going to be torn 455 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 1: down for cops city is a crucial part of the 456 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: city of Atlanta's tree cover, and that all of this 457 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: ties into both the impossibility of actually combating climate change 458 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 1: under the present system and the complicity of the police 459 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: in making it impossible to combat that or even to 460 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: mitigate it in many cases. But but I think what 461 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: you've gotten to is probably the most direct the most 462 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: directly frightening thing about what's going on in Atlanta, and 463 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: the thing that's most relevant to the future of any 464 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: kind of resistance in this country, which is, um, the 465 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: the gloves are are coming off right, the the this 466 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: is this is not going to be the last time 467 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: that states secure city forces use the fact that terrorism 468 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: has a special place in American law, and that crimes 469 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: that are deemed to be terrorism um open up the 470 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: ability of the government to act in ways that they 471 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: normally are not supposed to be able to act. Um, 472 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: Like that is going to be It's not going to 473 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: be just forest defenders that gets used on. It's going 474 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: to be anyone who ever carries out any kind of 475 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: act of protest that has a chance of upsetting the 476 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: balance of power um in this country. Like that's that's 477 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: where this is headed. And UM, it's a bummer. Do 478 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: you want to talk a little bit about the role 479 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: of the media in this, because that is something that 480 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: is I'm certain going to be of We just had 481 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: a thing today where some weirdo lefties on the True 482 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: and on subreddit decided and someone on Twitter decided to 483 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: accuse me of getting a bunch of people in Atlanta 484 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: arrested for terrorism because I interviewed them on camera. I've 485 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: I've never interviewed anyone in Atlanta, I said, I simply 486 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: have never worked there. Um, I'm not sure where the 487 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: rumors started, but it's it's reigniting this kind of debate 488 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: about it seems it seems like tanky stuff. It's it's 489 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: it's it's it's nonsense, but it has reignited. And I 490 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: saw this onthing. It could happen here, subred people talking 491 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: about like, um, obviously you know this is nonsense, but 492 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: it is a you know, looking at these terrorism charges, 493 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: it's a simple fact that activists should never talk to press. 494 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: And um, obviously a lot of these arrests had nothing 495 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: to do with anyone talking to the media. Like folks 496 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: were present at a riot and the cops were tackling folks. 497 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: That's that's nobody. But the cops's fault. But there's a 498 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: there's a there's a conversation to be had about what 499 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: is the what is the smart balance in terms of 500 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: getting pr and getting press coverage and getting word of 501 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: mouth about a radical movement and the fact that doing 502 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: that will inevitably ramp up pressure Like that is that 503 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: is a reality that when when radical activists get attention 504 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: from the media, the state cracks down. Now does that 505 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: mean that the media is responsible for the movement getting 506 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: cracked down? Or does it simply mean that the cops 507 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: judge whether or not something's a threat by the amount 508 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: of press that it's getting. You know, the the this 509 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: is this is an ongoing like thing people are going 510 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 1: to be talking about in in a lot of ways, 511 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: it's a continuation of conversations people were having in But 512 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: I'm interested in because when you win over there. We 513 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: had a little a few hours of debate after it 514 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: became clear that the cops had killed a forest defender 515 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: over like, Okay, what's the right thing to do? Should 516 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 1: should Garrison head over to Atlanta? Um? Should we have 517 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: some boots on the ground for this? Because you've been 518 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: covering it for so long and one of the things 519 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,479 Speaker 1: you pointed out is that there was a call for 520 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 1: media coverage from people who were on the ground in Atlanta. Yes, 521 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: this is something I will get born into when I 522 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: go in depth with this for an upcoming episode, probably 523 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: probably probably a two partter um. That's this is a 524 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: conversation that people are constantly having in Atlanta. This is 525 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 1: a conversation I've been having with people NonStop ever since 526 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: coming here. Ever since before coming here, I've you know, 527 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: this is something I don't want to just parachute into 528 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: someone else's city. I had conversations with multiple people before 529 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: before coming over. There's a few aspects to this. The 530 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: amount of people doing stuff, And you know, how many 531 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: people are in the forest not a not a giant 532 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: number of people. There's not hundreds of people living in 533 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 1: the woods. There's there's not there's there's not there's not 534 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: tons of people. Um. Uh. An intentional media strategy has 535 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: been a part of this movement since the beginning. Um, 536 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 1: even among the instructionary anarchists who are here. Uh. This 537 00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 1: is this has been something that people have been you know, 538 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: working on as as a part of a decentralized movement, 539 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 1: having conversations about uh. There's been a lot of there's 540 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: been coverage in the Rolling Stone that people here seem 541 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: to be pretty happy with. UM, yeah, it was very 542 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: and the Guardian also published people have like, people have 543 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: been pretty happy in the article. People have been very 544 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: pretty happy with coverage from the Guardian. Um, there's a 545 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: people have been pretty happy with some stuff from a 546 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: J Plus. Um. People have been um decently happy with 547 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: the work that I've done on this. But based on 548 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: many conversation, dozens and dozens of conversations I have I've 549 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 1: had with people here, UM, ultimately I don't for what 550 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: for what cops are doing in the forest. I don't 551 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: think there seems to be a clear correlation between media coverage, 552 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: happening of stuff of of you know, the movement, and 553 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: cops response to the forest. There doesn't, there does, There's 554 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: no linked timeline there. Cops are doing stuff in the 555 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: forest because they want the forest cleared so they can 556 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: build their police training the police training facility. From what 557 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,799 Speaker 1: I've talked with people, the amount of pressure that has 558 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: been caused by media covering the forest has not only 559 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: elongated the construction process, elongated the the amount stuff that 560 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: they're that they're able to do it's it is, it 561 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 1: has it has made it harder because this is this, 562 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,720 Speaker 1: this is not a very popular proposal. Even even before 563 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 1: the encampments started, it was estimated that like people in 564 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 1: Atlanta were not for this, We're not for the construction 565 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: of this facility. So I think people people make a 566 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: lot of intentional media choices. That's not to say that 567 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: there isn't also UM intentionally harmful actors who are trying 568 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 1: to frame this as Atlanta burning down Atlanta and disorder 569 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: Antifa taking over sections of Atlanta. That is absolutely another 570 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: part of it. But there's a very people here have 571 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 1: a very clear distinction between between bad actors, between people 572 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,439 Speaker 1: who are you know, providing accurate, fair coverage of what's 573 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: going on UM, and then you know people who are 574 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 1: just out to profit, which is you know, like a 575 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: lot of like local TV channels. UM. There's there. I 576 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: think stuff that happened on the protests on Saturdays is 577 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: a good example. There's this far right account that I'm 578 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 1: not going to name, UM at least not yet. I might. 579 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: I might talk about it in the future. UM who 580 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: you know, tries to collect information on on protesters they 581 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: had there, They have someone on the ground two films. 582 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 1: They also a really good aggregate of like random people's 583 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 1: instagram and TikTok's or snapchats of you know, filming filming 584 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:42,880 Speaker 1: people from unfortunate angles. Um, the local local TV like Fox, 585 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: like the like the local Fox news station, you know, 586 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 1: tries to get as much sensational footage of crimes as possible, 587 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: and you know, people people, to the best their ability, 588 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 1: well you know, try to try to block that off 589 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: with like umbrellas if they see that happening, but you know, 590 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 1: you can it's it's met. There's definitely a clear tension 591 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: that people in the movement do not want the media 592 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,720 Speaker 1: narratives around this to solely be decided by the state 593 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: and be decided against people who are in clear opposition 594 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,280 Speaker 1: to them. That is, that is absolutely something that people 595 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: are putting and putting attention in. Uh. They just that's 596 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 1: because that that creates a lot of really really harmful scenarios. 597 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 1: Because there's the state itself is already a pretty powerful 598 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: propaganda machine. Already, a lot of local news just regurgitates 599 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 1: state talking points. Right, this is the idea of the 600 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: fourth estate. There is does seem to be a pretty 601 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,760 Speaker 1: a distinction between stuff like the fourth Estate and stuff 602 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,839 Speaker 1: like the derivative idea of the fifth estate of being 603 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,240 Speaker 1: more of like the people's voice for for for for 604 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: these for these sorts of movements. Also in that vein 605 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: there's stuff like the Atlanta People's Press, which is like 606 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: decentralized media collective UM, run by a lot of like 607 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:02,760 Speaker 1: rad people who who who helped to coordinate media coverage, 608 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: who helped to coordinate UM stuff with I mean they have, 609 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 1: they have worked with people, They've worked with us on 610 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 1: our on the on the history of the old Atlanta 611 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: prison farm. So I would say there's a lot of 612 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: thought put into media strategy UM, and not like in 613 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: like a Libby like optics way, but like actual effective 614 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: media strategy that will improve material conditions and will help 615 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: push the goals of the movement forward, the goal being 616 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 1: that the construction of Cops City does does not continue. 617 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of thought going into that and 618 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: they and that is viewed as another like that that 619 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 1: is another wing of of the effort. Right, There's there's 620 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: stuff like the encampments. There's stuff like sabotage, there's stuff 621 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: like protests, There's stuff like you know, like a a 622 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,719 Speaker 1: very above board stuff, you know that like very uh, 623 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: you know, like a above grand organizations will do like 624 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 1: you know right in camp Haynes calling campaigns and media 625 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,279 Speaker 1: strategy is another angle of this because to completely give 626 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 1: up the public perception of what's going on to the 627 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 1: state is seen as a bad thing. So, but this 628 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: is this is absolutely a contentious topic. I think people 629 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 1: in Atlanta have a lot of nuanced conversations about this, 630 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 1: and media stuff is handled with a lot more intention 631 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 1: here than it has been in the Pacific Northwest. Um, 632 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,360 Speaker 1: that is my that is my subjective opinion. But based 633 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,359 Speaker 1: on based on it's a smaller community, so I think 634 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 1: maybe it's easier. It does seem like there's more solidarity 635 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 1: within the community and a shared vision. I wouldn't say 636 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,800 Speaker 1: that's true. There is the community is forced to reinforce itself. 637 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: It is small enough that it cannot treat people as disposable. Um, 638 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: it needs to maintain the people that it has, and 639 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,360 Speaker 1: so people work through problems, People work through conflicts and 640 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,720 Speaker 1: ways to actually resolve it and keep going to build 641 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: everyone up and make them stronger. There's a shared community 642 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 1: space which i've I've I've been to a few times. Um. 643 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 1: And I think even just something like that is so 644 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: is so useful in being able to actually keep something 645 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,480 Speaker 1: that resembles a community. You see a lot of anarchists, 646 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,719 Speaker 1: um talk about how like community isn't a real thing, 647 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,880 Speaker 1: there isn't actually community, um, you know. Or and in 648 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 1: a lot of places, I would say that's that's true. 649 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: A lot of places are just click driven, um you know, uh, 650 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 1: scene drama it it honestly gets towards or like interesting 651 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 1: conflict if if you don't want use sword drama. Um. 652 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 1: Whereas circular firing squad type ship. Yeah. Whereas here there 653 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 1: is such a feeling of actual community like that that 654 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 1: actually is a thing here because people are forced to 655 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 1: foster it. We're in the South, We're surrounded where you know, 656 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 1: you're you're surrounded by a lot of people who want 657 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,440 Speaker 1: to hurt you. Um. Atlanta is the most surveilled city. 658 00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 1: There's so many different police forces. There's a police force 659 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: for Faulting Counting, the police force for De Cab County 660 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: is the police force for Atlanta. There's the Georgia State Patrol. 661 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,520 Speaker 1: There's the Georgia Buer of Investigation. There's the Georgia Department 662 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,960 Speaker 1: of Homeland Security. There's so many people, so many agencies 663 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 1: are involved in this. There's so much, so much outwards 664 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,759 Speaker 1: um threats to people that you really are forced to 665 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 1: keep people, uh, keep people close and and trust the 666 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 1: people around you because the consequences are quite dire. Um. 667 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 1: So people take things very seriously and they put a 668 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 1: lot of thought into into a lot of into a 669 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 1: lot of things. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean that 670 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,919 Speaker 1: that also jells with my own experience in the South. Right, 671 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: it's it's easier to find communities of people who are 672 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 1: um doing anything kind of radical because there's that that 673 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 1: bunker mentality, right, You're under siege, You're surrounded on all sides, 674 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 1: and um, you know that that's very different when you 675 00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 1: go to a place where there is kind of more 676 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,040 Speaker 1: like what what would be in other places, devancy is 677 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:08,040 Speaker 1: more than norm um. And yeah, I guess that that 678 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,160 Speaker 1: is probably has a lot to do with the fact 679 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:15,000 Speaker 1: that this forest Defense has so far been so successful 680 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 1: in delaying the construction of this facility which it which 681 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:24,800 Speaker 1: it has construction construction deadlines continue to have been passed 682 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,319 Speaker 1: and been passed and been passed. It has the very 683 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 1: least showed that stuff like this can be resisted and 684 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 1: significantly delayed. And at this point they're projecting construction won't 685 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,879 Speaker 1: be complete for about four more years. And again these 686 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 1: deadlines keep getting pushed back and back, and that is 687 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 1: really what the movement is trying to do, keep these 688 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: deadlines getting pushed back and back until they just give 689 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: up on the project or try to put it somewhere else. 690 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 1: And if they try to put someone and if they 691 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 1: try to put it somewhere else, then the forest was defended. 692 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:53,920 Speaker 1: But then there's still the top cop city aspect of 693 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,240 Speaker 1: being like, yeah, it can go somewhere else, but we 694 00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:57,600 Speaker 1: we don't want it there at all. And then at 695 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 1: that point the movement would change, you know, very significantly. 696 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,360 Speaker 1: But in terms of the defend the Atlanta Force aspect 697 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 1: of this, right, the whole goal is to make to 698 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: make this as unenticing as possible UM. And there's a 699 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 1: multitude of strategies involved in that UM including stuff like propaganda, 700 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 1: madget prop media strategy, sabotage, direct action, call in campaigns, 701 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 1: stuff about pressuring the construction agencies, all all those sort 702 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,880 Speaker 1: of things. That's so much more because what you're talking 703 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,320 Speaker 1: about is is what we call in sort of conflict 704 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,759 Speaker 1: studies a strategy of friction, right, um, and and so 705 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,239 Speaker 1: much there's so always so much focus on kind of 706 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,480 Speaker 1: these like we had in Portland and twenty these like 707 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:45,440 Speaker 1: grand moments that are are very visually spectacular of resistance, 708 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:50,240 Speaker 1: but what actually what actually wins Because the state has 709 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:52,920 Speaker 1: the ability to take a lot of hits. It is 710 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 1: a it is a durable force. And if you're going 711 00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,799 Speaker 1: up against a durable force, the only way to win 712 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:03,319 Speaker 1: victories is to be durable yourself and to wear away 713 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 1: at them. It's it's friction, um And I think that's like, 714 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,800 Speaker 1: that's still the winning play is to keep up pressure. 715 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,799 Speaker 1: It's just the kinds of pressure, especially now that they've 716 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:16,960 Speaker 1: cleared out the tree sitters and stuff, and now that 717 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,879 Speaker 1: we've seen what they're going to do to people who 718 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:24,040 Speaker 1: are arrested at demonstrations, the kinds of friction that completely 719 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,760 Speaker 1: be applied have to change. Otherwise the movement's going to 720 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,640 Speaker 1: get worn down before the state does. In this fight. 721 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 1: Something that Tortuguita has said is that the state is 722 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,120 Speaker 1: very good at doing violence. We we cannot we we 723 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:43,120 Speaker 1: cannot beat the state at violence. The states the state 724 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,480 Speaker 1: will probably win that game. That's that's that's the entire 725 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:48,680 Speaker 1: point of the state that like the state has a 726 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,440 Speaker 1: monopoly on violence. That is the entire point. They will 727 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,120 Speaker 1: win that. Um, but there but there are other ways 728 00:43:55,400 --> 00:44:01,719 Speaker 1: where we can see successes, and we have seen successes before. UM, 729 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:06,560 Speaker 1: so it's not over. It will probably grow and change. 730 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,680 Speaker 1: Um what actually happens will remain to be seen. But 731 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,680 Speaker 1: I am um just I'm prepping to go through a 732 00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:17,879 Speaker 1: whole bunch of my audio files and uh and and 733 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,560 Speaker 1: and piece and piece together kind of a pretty pretty 734 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:25,799 Speaker 1: discinct deep dive. That is, it is a true a 735 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:29,120 Speaker 1: true successor to the to the original on the ground 736 00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:30,920 Speaker 1: at the defense the Atlanta Force episodes that I did 737 00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,040 Speaker 1: last May, so well, I look forward to that. I'm 738 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,439 Speaker 1: sure I know everyone else is as well. UM, thank 739 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,400 Speaker 1: you for going over there and uh and being in 740 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,840 Speaker 1: the thick of it, and um yeah, we'll we'll continue 741 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,760 Speaker 1: to cover this story as best we can. But whatever 742 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,680 Speaker 1: comes in the future, all right, I think that's an 743 00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:58,640 Speaker 1: episode it could happen here as a production of cool 744 00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,640 Speaker 1: Zone Media. From more podcast from cool Zone Media. Visit 745 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,040 Speaker 1: our website cool zone media dot com, or check us 746 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,360 Speaker 1: out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or 747 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,400 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts, you can find sources for 748 00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,200 Speaker 1: It could happen here, Updated monthly at cool Zone Media 749 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,720 Speaker 1: dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.