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Speaker 1: This is Me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely

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Speaker 1: bug bitten in my case underwear listening podcast. You Can't

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Speaker 1: Predict Anything presented by on X. Hunt creators are the

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Speaker 1: most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt

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Speaker 1: app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor where

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Speaker 1: you stand with on x Uh. Yeah, honestly did you

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Speaker 1: know that? Did you see how the bear that mauld

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Speaker 1: our past podcast guest Amber Cornac is dead? Is dead

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Speaker 1: or relocated dead? Just fresh dead? It was so I think,

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Speaker 1: but just recently. Also we we got a thing about it.

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Speaker 1: He relocated. Yeah, it can't It wasn't able to keep

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Speaker 1: itself out of trouble. So some dude just outside of Libby,

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Speaker 1: Montana had a elk he killed in his garage, and

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Speaker 1: the bear busted into his garage to get the elk,

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Speaker 1: and it was like kind of like a three strikes

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Speaker 1: you're out, like pretty much almost killed. Someone got a

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Speaker 1: much trouble, got relocated, got a much more trouble. It's dead.

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Speaker 1: I should be asking Amber about this, not you, because

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Speaker 1: she didn't want nothing to happen to it. I guess

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Speaker 1: the hold that thing was twenty five years old. Fifty pounds.

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Speaker 1: He gained a hundred pounds from when he got when

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Speaker 1: from when he got caught in October two when he

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Speaker 1: got killed in November, he gained a hundred pounds. Really. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he went from four or fifty to five fifty between

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Speaker 1: October and November. That's amazing. That's a lot of eating. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I haven't been able to do that in my entire life. No,

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Speaker 1: And you know, we just recently killed a fifty pound pig,

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Speaker 1: so I'm glad to have that frame of reference. I

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Speaker 1: think that a bare how much beans? So you can

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Speaker 1: imagine you can imagine beans. Wasn't that intimidating? Yeah? But

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Speaker 1: he also doesn't have fur making him puffy. Yeah, he's

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Speaker 1: not quite as muscular either. I'm still back wondering about

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Speaker 1: Amber and getting mulled by the grizzly bears. Oh it's horrific.

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Speaker 1: Yeah we should go back. Uh yeah, yeah, you look

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Speaker 1: it up. What was that called? Oh it's horrific, man,

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Speaker 1: No it's not. She's a grizzy bear. She's a grizzly

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Speaker 1: bear researcher. But she had just started being a researcher

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Speaker 1: and she was out collecting hair samples. They're doing like

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Speaker 1: a genetic study, and she's out collecting hair samples from

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Speaker 1: wire traps, like basically you put out a cent and

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Speaker 1: used barbed wire or whatever around it, and the bear

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Speaker 1: goes in here to get it and loses fur on

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Speaker 1: the barbs. And she was out checking hair traps and

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Speaker 1: got mauled horribly. Came in from behind her. It was

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Speaker 1: an interesting conversation we had with her. She all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden stumbles into it and it was just like

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Speaker 1: right there and she just knew, like he started coming

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Speaker 1: and she knew what was gonna happen. And he bit

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Speaker 1: her and back of the head, real bad um. And

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Speaker 1: she grabbed her pepper spray and couldn't even see the

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Speaker 1: bear at the time. It was Mallinger and held it

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Speaker 1: over her shoulder quick thinking yeah, and just point blanked

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Speaker 1: it into its face and it dropped her and took

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Speaker 1: off work. Yeah, everybody's like, oh, pepper spirit doesn't work

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Speaker 1: all the time. It's like nothing, So I've heard something recently.

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Speaker 1: Nothing works all the time. I'll give that a listen

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Speaker 1: Episode one sixties seven and you you can't forget the

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Speaker 1: title mauled by a grizzly We just got right to

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Speaker 1: it on that title. We'll have to in the next

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Speaker 1: week or two call Amber and ask her she's bummed

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Speaker 1: the bear that maulder and nearly killed her is dead

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Speaker 1: because she didn't want anything bad to happen to it,

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Speaker 1: which is the thing that's like a thing that happens

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Speaker 1: with people to get mauled by grizzlies. A lot of

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Speaker 1: times people that get malled by grizzlies don't want them hurt.

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Speaker 1: And I if one got me, I would like to

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Speaker 1: know it was still out there. Yeah, but I got it.

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Speaker 1: If I got it, it was getting up there in age. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: how is it going to get as pragmatic as she was?

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Speaker 1: You'd call her a pragmatic person, wouldn't you. I feel

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Speaker 1: that she sort of knows that that happens to bears,

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Speaker 1: and then it's just like unlucky that it happened to

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Speaker 1: the one that messed with her. But that's just the

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Speaker 1: times that we live in that when bears and people

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Speaker 1: have conflicts, the bears are gonna get alston Yeah, especially

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Speaker 1: a repeat offender. I mean the fact that you can

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Speaker 1: maul someone in pertinent or kill him and then still

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Speaker 1: get to be alive, says a lot about human restraint.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, we're not allowed to do that. Generally speaking.

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Speaker 1: If I went off to Yanni Malden real bad and

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Speaker 1: then the nis I put don want anything bad to

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Speaker 1: happen to him, they still give me a talking to. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Our special guest today, historian. What do you like to

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Speaker 1: go by? Author? Historian? Historian and author? Author is better?

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Speaker 1: Because I like that better too. Yeah, I'm not UH

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Speaker 1: have an English Masters DeGrace. I'm not trained as a historian,

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Speaker 1: but I learned on the fly, Buddy Levy, Buddy Levy,

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Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you that before the thing and

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Speaker 1: I had screwed it up and I forgot to ask ye. Author,

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Speaker 1: give people a range of some of the things you've

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Speaker 1: written about. Wow, So I've written about trucker hunting, uh,

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Speaker 1: Davy Crockett, the conquest of the Aztecs, the first Europeans

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Speaker 1: had just send the entire length of the Amazon. Geronimo

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Speaker 1: Um a blin mind adventurer who summited in Mount Everest,

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Speaker 1: and Kayak the Grand Canyon who is currently on the

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Speaker 1: peak of Alma Blam in Nepal today. And then let's

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Speaker 1: see labyrinth device, the Greely expedition. So in addition to UM,

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Speaker 1: I covered adventure racing as a journalist for about seven

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Speaker 1: years following these wild UM outdoor they're called Multi Sport

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Speaker 1: and Durance competitions UM. And then I was on Brad

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Speaker 1: Meltzer's Decoded, a History Channel show trying to not solve

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Speaker 1: historical conundrums. Uh. Well, we tried to solve them, but

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Speaker 1: mostly we didn't solve them, and we got all the

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Speaker 1: ship for that too. It's like, you know, are you

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Speaker 1: ever gonna you know, did d W. Cooper? Like did

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Speaker 1: he get away or not? You know, We're like, no,

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Speaker 1: well it looks like he did though. Um. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: so yeah, I'm a comedian. Do you think Dave Cooper

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Speaker 1: got away? Absolutely? Almost tell people who d Cooper is

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Speaker 1: real quick. So yeah, there was no Phil you know DV.

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Speaker 1: Cooper is. Yeah, he jumped out of the plane kind

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Speaker 1: of where I grew up, So I know where he

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Speaker 1: is who he is? I mean, yeah, because Phillis and

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Speaker 1: you don't. So you're from like Seattle, Portland area in

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Speaker 1: between there yet? Okay, So yeah, so this this guy

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Speaker 1: who signed into the s dB, Cooper and he bought

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Speaker 1: in an airplane in Portland heading to Seattle, and when

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Speaker 1: he when he got on the air he landed in Seattle,

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Speaker 1: and then he he asked for while he was flying,

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Speaker 1: he told him he told the FBI that he wanted

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Speaker 1: parachutes and two d and fifty thou dollars and or

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Speaker 1: he would blow up the plane. And he had what

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Speaker 1: looked like it turns out to be a fake bomb.

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Speaker 1: So the FBI accommodated him. They gave him. They brought

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Speaker 1: the money onto the airplane, and they brought parachutes, and

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Speaker 1: he let everybody off the plane except for like a

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Speaker 1: flight attendant and the pilot of course. Uh. And he

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Speaker 1: got up to ten thousand feet heading back over the

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Speaker 1: mountains in Washington, and he deployed the rear aft stairwell

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Speaker 1: of this airplane, or he asked the steward iss flight

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Speaker 1: attendant to deploy it, at which point he had already

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Speaker 1: put on the parachute, and he freaking got he jumped

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Speaker 1: out of the airplane with all the money. And so

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Speaker 1: the ever p well, no, so that if you if you, uh,

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Speaker 1: if you research it, you realize that there are a

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Speaker 1: number of possible suspects. Right, So historically FBI, it's it's

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Speaker 1: actually unsolved still, but actually was right. Well, we think

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Speaker 1: it was this guy named um Kenneth Christiansen, who was

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Speaker 1: a flight attendant himself and had done like he was

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Speaker 1: a paratrooper in the military, so he knew everything about

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Speaker 1: how to jump out of the airplane. And there's a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of reasons that we think it's him. But um,

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Speaker 1: it was really fun. Now, why do you think that

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Speaker 1: he lived? Because I thought they did. They like the

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Speaker 1: found a sac of rotten money and stuff own money

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Speaker 1: in the in the stream and they found, um, they

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Speaker 1: found money hidden at this house in Bonnie Lake, Washington.

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Speaker 1: And we went to the house during the filming of

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Speaker 1: this episode, and you know, right behind this house there

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Speaker 1: was buried like five thousand dollars and then there were

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Speaker 1: other things this guy and he really right after he um,

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Speaker 1: right after this all happened, this guy, Kenny christians And

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Speaker 1: bought a brand new house. Uh. And there's another guy

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Speaker 1: who we interviewed named Bernie Geistman who gave us the

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Speaker 1: indication that it was probably you know, he was an accomplice.

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Speaker 1: But you know, he Bernie Eastman went wouldn't go so

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Speaker 1: far as to like obviously admit it, because I mean

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Speaker 1: even the statute of limitations. Probably don't know if he

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Speaker 1: could even get arrested for it now, but um, he

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Speaker 1: didn't want to be, you know, admit that he had

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Speaker 1: been an accomplice to this, you know, the only unsolved

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Speaker 1: hijacking in American history, American aviation history. Pretty badass though,

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Speaker 1: So you never found the body remains? No no, And

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Speaker 1: we went to Minnesota and interviewed this guy that it

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Speaker 1: was Kenny Christiansen's brother, and he gave us some pretty

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Speaker 1: compelling evidence that, Um, you know, there was a deathbed

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Speaker 1: confession that he that he told his brother that it

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Speaker 1: was him. Um, of course it's hard to really corroborate that,

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Speaker 1: and I think his brother's dead now. We filmed this

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Speaker 1: back in Um, like, yeah, I guess I ever thought

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Speaker 1: about that if he was dead, to be a dead

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Speaker 1: guy laying there. They did find what people do, But

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Speaker 1: how do the people? I think we're getting way sidetrack

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Speaker 1: one a while to talk about, but we're not around

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Speaker 1: the subject. I got two things I want to ask

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Speaker 1: you about before we talked about what we're supposed to

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Speaker 1: talk about. Uh, let's say I was the perspective. Let's

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Speaker 1: say I was a guy that I thought he was dead,

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Speaker 1: like I was a minute ago before we started talking

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Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, you know, I'm not, but I was.

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Speaker 1: But let's say you were an informed person who thought

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Speaker 1: he was dead, and one said to this informed individual,

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Speaker 1: why is his body not laying there? What would that

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Speaker 1: informed individuals say to explain the absence of a body? Right?

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Speaker 1: So there? Yeah, but like why you're saying, why didn't

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Speaker 1: they ever find a body? No, it's not what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: What are you saying? Okay, I'll just try it again.

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Speaker 1: Imagine that. I imagine that you're engaging with a person

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Speaker 1: who believes he's dead, but the believes he died jumping

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Speaker 1: out of the plane. Okay, and this person is well informed,

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Speaker 1: and you say to them, does this person where's the

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Speaker 1: dead body? Then what would the person throw out there

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Speaker 1: as an explanation for why there's nobody? Right? Well, uh,

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Speaker 1: he got away? How about that? Or oh yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: he could have been eaten by wolf wolves in the area.

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Speaker 1: Back then, that's what people who were semi informed would say, Um,

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Speaker 1: there are other animals that could I mean, they're coyotes.

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Speaker 1: How about so that his body was scavenged animals, and

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Speaker 1: that would be a thing you could say, pecked down

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Speaker 1: to bone. But but but they literally, I mean they

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Speaker 1: did find a parachute and they found money. So it

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Speaker 1: looks pretty much like the guy got away. Why does

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Speaker 1: that make you think he got away? Well, because already

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Speaker 1: leave the money laying out in the woods. Well he

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Speaker 1: might not, so he some of the money was not

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Speaker 1: properly tethered, so he you know. Yeah, anyway, it's it's

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Speaker 1: fun because this is the real story, the reason that

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Speaker 1: we you know, people have been trying to argue about

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Speaker 1: this for like, you know whatever since the seventies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it's funny because it comes it comes back up

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Speaker 1: all the time because people like in America, we just

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Speaker 1: like rehash every ten years, like oh god, having to

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Speaker 1: DV Cooper right two yo doesn't seem like enough to

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Speaker 1: try to pull that stunt up back then though, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: adjusted for inflation, was a million retire on two K.

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Speaker 1: Couldn't you here in Montana? Sure, moved down to Miles City.

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Speaker 1: We're still wants to move Greatest hunting fishing in the world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah maybe maybe, But and justin for inflation, it was

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Speaker 1: probably four times that exactly. So, yeah, you can jump

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Speaker 1: off a plane for a million bucks a little dventure. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And and we talked to a number of people who, um,

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Speaker 1: but there were copycats afterwards, and we talked to you know,

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Speaker 1: um parachute instructors who were like, oh, yeah, he could

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Speaker 1: definitely make the jump. That's not a problem. You know,

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Speaker 1: they've jumped out of They were jumping out of airplanes

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Speaker 1: all the time. So anyway, that was only one of

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Speaker 1: you know, there's like I don't want to talk about

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Speaker 1: decoded forever. But it was a really fun. Um, it

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Speaker 1: was fun cruising around kind of slew thing historical mystery. Yeah, hey,

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Speaker 1: how many um, how many books have you written all together?

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Speaker 1: I think seven? Yeah you know you want you want

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Speaker 1: a hot two? Yeah? I do? You know what you

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Speaker 1: ought to do? We'll talk a big time bestseller. We

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Speaker 1: got my next book for me, big time best seller.

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Speaker 1: Claude Dallas. I like, no one's touched it since Jack

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Speaker 1: Olsen or whatever his name was. He wrote Give a

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Speaker 1: Boy a Gun, right, But a lot happened after that,

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Speaker 1: so like Claude Dallas escape from prison, got caught, like

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Speaker 1: when like got out, he's back out now. No one

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Speaker 1: knows where he is. I'm jotting it down. So I

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Speaker 1: was Claude No no, so real quick crash course. Claude

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Speaker 1: Dallas was uh a trapper cell styled mountain man, but

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Speaker 1: a fur trapper back good for a price era A

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Speaker 1: lot of bobcats are very valuable. And he was trapping,

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Speaker 1: I believe, around like the border of like Idaho. You yeah,

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Speaker 1: out in the desert there the io. There's a name

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Speaker 1: for it, like the io n Idaho, Oregon Desert. I

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Speaker 1: was a teenager and catch Amida when when this happened.

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Speaker 1: So he was trapping out in the desert. And what

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Speaker 1: he was doing is one state the season was open,

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Speaker 1: in one state the season was closed, and they had

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Speaker 1: a feeling that he was trapping in the closed state

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Speaker 1: but camped in the open state, and so he was.

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Speaker 1: He was having casts. He's like, oh yeah, I got

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Speaker 1: all these casts. But they're like, yeah, but we feel

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Speaker 1: like you're catching him across the border where you now

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Speaker 1: it's supposed to. But the two game wardens come in

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Speaker 1: to rate his camp, and he's also got a dead

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Speaker 1: mule deer hanging there because he's living off deer meat.

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Speaker 1: He's got a dead mule deer hanging in camp, gets

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Speaker 1: into a skirmish with the game wardens. Different his like

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Speaker 1: he's the only guy who lives to tell about it.

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Speaker 1: But he says the game wardens were harassing him and

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Speaker 1: tried to get the drop on him. They have a shootout.

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Speaker 1: He wounds the two game wardens. But then what seals

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Speaker 1: his fate because he takes the twenty two caliber pistol

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Speaker 1: and goes and and kills both game wardens, and cold

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Speaker 1: Blood shoots him in the head. I didn't do it generally.

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Speaker 1: Then uh heads off into the desert. There's a big

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Speaker 1: man hunt. He finally gets caught, goes to jail, escapes.

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Speaker 1: It's a great story. Years go by. He gets caught

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Speaker 1: dumpster diving somewhere, goes back to jail, gets out. He

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Speaker 1: wanted his privacy and they let him loose, and he

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Speaker 1: just vanished into the ether. Now no one knows where

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Speaker 1: I thought they got him. They did. They got him twice.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like you should they got him the first time,

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Speaker 1: they got him the second time. Then he served his time,

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Speaker 1: and people like I cannot believe you're gonna let out

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Speaker 1: of jail a man who killed him. But here's the

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Speaker 1: thing people like, like when I was a kid, like

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Speaker 1: hell Billies, Like I hesitate to say this, but like

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Speaker 1: a lot of like total hell Billies looked up to

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Speaker 1: Claude Dallas. Right, He's a cult hero, which is disgusting

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Speaker 1: really because I was even guilty of as a little

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Speaker 1: kid because Trapper and Predator color magan Is would do

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Speaker 1: articles about Claude Dallas and they'd be like, you know,

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Speaker 1: he really shouldn't kill game wardens, but you know there's

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Speaker 1: something to be said for living out in the desert

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Speaker 1: trap bobcats. And it was like and people acted like that,

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Speaker 1: there was like sort of like up in the air

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Speaker 1: whether or not this guy was a good guy. I

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Speaker 1: think that rather than let him out of jail, I

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Speaker 1: think they should have snuck a twenty two selling behind

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Speaker 1: his ear right. And you know, that's similar thing with D. B. Cooper,

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Speaker 1: where he's got cult hero status and people seem to

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Speaker 1: forget the fact that he you know, pretended that he

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Speaker 1: was going to blow up an aircraft. Um, he gets

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Speaker 1: off a little bit because he let them, didn't hurt people,

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Speaker 1: let the passengers ago, but he's still I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's funny how Yeah, we gravitate towards characters even or figures,

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Speaker 1: historical figures, even when they're you know, immoral, but if

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Speaker 1: they Claude Dallas is like inexcusable man, Right, But yeah,

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Speaker 1: we grew up like when we were little kids and

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Speaker 1: that was all going on. We thought he was a badass,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of disgusting. So well, I won't write

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Speaker 1: that one then, right about that, right about that would

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Speaker 1: be like the end. You know how in the end

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Speaker 1: of your Crockett book you step back and look at

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Speaker 1: the mythos of Crockett, right, like, how how Davy Crockett

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Speaker 1: kind of became remembered. And you've been talking about Davy

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Speaker 1: Crockett generated like adjusted for inflation, back to that subject,

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Speaker 1: Davy Crockett generated more revenue in the nineteen fifties than

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Speaker 1: uh G, I Joe right, Superman, Batman, Bigger Business. I

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Speaker 1: think I forget the numbers, but it was. I wrote

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Speaker 1: it down right here because I know I don't want

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Speaker 1: to get in trouble because you wrote the book a

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Speaker 1: long time ago. Uh in today's dollars three billion in

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Speaker 1: nineteen I think it was like in nineteen fifty five

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Speaker 1: and today's dollars who have been three billion dollars and

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Speaker 1: Davy Crockett paraphernalia, fake coonskin caps. Mainly every kid in

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Speaker 1: America wrote his bike around with a fake coon skin

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Speaker 1: cap on, a little lunch pails and um, you know,

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Speaker 1: like rifles and stuff like the ship that comes out

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Speaker 1: like when you when you go to McDonald's and you

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Speaker 1: like there's like a happy meal offering and they're like

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Speaker 1: in cahoots with a movie that came out like that

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Speaker 1: kind of garbage. Yeah, we call it merch these days. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: licensed licensed Crockett merge. Right. In fact, you're talking about

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Speaker 1: swinging back around. I mean it's probably get bad to

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Speaker 1: call DA. Do you think you're gonna write the book

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Speaker 1: or not? I don't read that book so faster to

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Speaker 1: make your I know you and about well, I don't

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Speaker 1: know the market. Um, it's come up in my in

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Speaker 1: my research before that. You know, I like, um, I

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Speaker 1: like figures that are sort of controversial. You know, people

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Speaker 1: still think he's badass. Yeah, if I ran into I

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Speaker 1: don't want to shirt or something, you know, you might

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Speaker 1: be a good way to get your ask Kire. It

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Speaker 1: depends on where you are. Uh, okay, you were to

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Speaker 1: say about Crockett. I'm not ready to talk about crock

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Speaker 1: You we might to throw it out there now that well,

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Speaker 1: And I was gonna say how I got to Crockett.

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Speaker 1: So how I got how? I because I didn't Um.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I grew up in California for you know,

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Speaker 1: a short period. My dad was from Louisiana and he

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Speaker 1: moved to California, doctor um and uh he was a

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Speaker 1: general practitioner, um and catch him Idaho after after we

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00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,200
Speaker 1: left California. But I was I was in there in

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Speaker 1: the sixties during the Crockett craze, so I could see

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Speaker 1: it was were you guys in catch him? When Hemingway

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Speaker 1: killed himself and catch him? That was like sixty three

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Speaker 1: later later. Yeah, I grew up with the Hemingways and

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Speaker 1: Jack Hemingway. Hemingway's eldest son was my French teacher actually,

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Speaker 1: and um, his daughter Mary l was a classmate of

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Speaker 1: mine and um private school that I went to. But

356
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Speaker 1: before we have you seen uh no, what's that movie?

357
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Speaker 1: Was Dwight Yoakum John Prine not Dwight Yoakum, John Prime,

358
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Speaker 1: Muriel Hemingway and and uh John Mellencamp Falling from Grace

359
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Speaker 1: I haven't seen it. I better Yeah, we're good. Go on.

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Speaker 1: Um anyway, week, so we we moved. Um, I was

361
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Speaker 1: around the Crockett craze as a kid, and I just

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Speaker 1: sort of, you know, you couldn't escape it. I mean

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Speaker 1: we lived, we lived, you know, twenty minutes from Disneyland

364
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Speaker 1: and it was all happening. And then my dad moved

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Speaker 1: us to Idaho, um in nineteen seventy, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I was like, you sort of left that part behind.

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Speaker 1: But much later, Um, when I started, I had written

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Speaker 1: this chucker book. So my you know, I learned, I

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Speaker 1: learned hunting and fishing from my dad and um, and

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Speaker 1: I decided to write this book about chucker hunting. And

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Speaker 1: as it turned out, you know, it was like a

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Speaker 1: pretty niche you know, is there a not a lot

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Speaker 1: of Um, it's not a great market for a book

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Speaker 1: on chucker hunting. No, there's not a lot of I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you added up how many people self when you

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Speaker 1: asked someone like, what are you into and they say chuckers? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like what's a chucker? Anyway? You know, it was five

378
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,920
Speaker 1: thou Yeah. Yeah. So but anyway, I wanted to I

379
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Speaker 1: had a lot of my first story I ever wrote.

380
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Speaker 1: I was thirteen years old and it was about bird

381
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Speaker 1: hunting and it had a chucker in it. So I

382
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,640
Speaker 1: was my dad was a big time chucker hunter. So

383
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Speaker 1: I end up writting this book like you were in

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Speaker 1: the trap, where it felt to you like very foundational, right,

385
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Speaker 1: because this one thing everybody knows about chuckers. And you know,

386
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Speaker 1: I'm not kidding you. He's he knew a lot about shuckers,

387
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 1: and he knew a lot of but he he was

388
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 1: a great and he's still he's out hunting. And my

389
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,160
Speaker 1: nold man is in uh deal in Montana hunting ducks today.

390
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 1: I was telling your honest, he'll be eighty eight on Monday,

391
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,159
Speaker 1: and he's just hunts, I mean, every single day if

392
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,639
Speaker 1: you can. But so we end up I end up

393
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Speaker 1: writing this book about chucker hunting, and so I'm thinking, well,

394
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 1: I needed, you know, when we get do with that.

395
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Speaker 1: So I was trying to get an agent at the time,

396
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 1: and uh so I sent it to this agent in

397
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 1: New York named Scott Waxman, who was a friend of friends. Yeah,

398
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 1: and so he he calls me up after he read

399
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Speaker 1: book and he calls me and he's like, and there's

400
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,439
Speaker 1: a you know, like in two thousand or something to that,

401
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 1: when I, you know, got a flip phone and I

402
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:44,879
Speaker 1: pull over and he's like, what are you doing? And

403
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,879
Speaker 1: I said, well, I just pull over, got cell coverage here,

404
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 1: I'm out. I'm out pheasant hunting. And he's like he

405
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 1: was you know, he's a New Yorker. He's certainly enamored

406
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Speaker 1: with the romance of the Western idea, you know. So

407
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: he's like, I did you write this great book about

408
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: chucker hunting and you're out pheasant hunting and seemed pretty

409
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 1: into hunting, and and I'm like, yeah, you know, I'm

410
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 1: I just pull your kind of cramping in my hunt

411
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: right now, frankly. And but you know, he said, listen,

412
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Speaker 1: who's the greatest hunter in American history? And I was like, well,

413
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 1: it's gotta either be Daniel Boone or Davy Crockett, you know.

414
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 1: And he said, well, why don't you go look and

415
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 1: see if there's been a book recently about either of

416
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Speaker 1: those guys. There was a somebody had written a book

417
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: about Boone. I think it's Robert Morgan's name, had written

418
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 1: a book about Boone, you know, kind of recently. And

419
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Speaker 1: then I look and there hadn't been anything on Crockett

420
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Speaker 1: in like fifty years, like a biography, right, So I

421
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 1: called him back and I said, how about Crockett, you know,

422
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 1: and he's like done, Yeah. I mean Crockett was more

423
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 1: talk about hunting, you know, um politician hunter. But you know,

424
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 1: Crockett created the mystique of I mean listen, we're still

425
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: talking about him today and uh so, but it worked

426
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 1: out great. So but Chrucker Hunting book led to a

427
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: book about one of the great frontiersmen in American history.

428
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 1: I was really happy with that. You know, hey, your

429
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,360
Speaker 1: new book coming out. Okay, here this I'm gonna leave

430
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 1: this up to you. This is gonna be like chef's choice,

431
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: author's choice. I want to I want to talk. I

432
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: want to do crash course on Crockett. And here's why. Um,

433
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 1: I've read everything there is to read about Boone. Oh yeah,

434
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 1: right down, like the Draper manuscripts, all that kind of stuff. Right,

435
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: I was Crockett ignorant. And what started me down needing

436
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 1: to know about Crockett was that I would talk about

437
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: what sort of a ship talk er Crockett was and

438
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 1: Texans get so mad. Real man, my friend Jesse Griffith's

439
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 1: it's like he turns kind of red if you say

440
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 1: something bad about with anger, if you say something bad

441
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: about Crockett. So that led me to think he's a

442
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: reasonable dude. That led me to think that I needed

443
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 1: to go read up on Crockett because I also knew

444
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 1: that there was like a little bit of a mystery.

445
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: Talk about a mystery, you wanna talk about DV Cooper?

446
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: Did he die at the Alamo? At the Alamo? What

447
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: did Crockett like go down in a hail of bullets fighting?

448
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:09,719
Speaker 1: Or as some people now think, was Crockett captured and

449
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: and and and surrendered? Well? Right, and those your Texas

450
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:17,360
Speaker 1: friends do not want to hear anything about it. They're

451
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: getting away, you know. So I needed to know more

452
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: about Uh. That led me to want to know more

453
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: about Crockett. And it's also the connection is connecting to

454
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: people's heads. Is even like the organization, the conservation organization

455
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,199
Speaker 1: Boone and Crockett, right, which kind of bundles them together

456
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: in a way that they don't. They shouldn't. They have

457
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: no business being bundled together. I agree with that. I

458
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 1: mean they were only I think I mean they're they're

459
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 1: separated by a few decades anyway. Um, yeah, like the

460
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 1: height of Boone's adventures were around We're around the Revolutionary War. Yeah,

461
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 1: well before I mean Crockett died at the Alamo in

462
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: you know, eighteen with thirty six, um, and you know,

463
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: I think that but as far I love that question,

464
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: you know, about whether or not what actually happened um

465
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: at the Alamo, because they're so much tied to you know,

466
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: Texans tie so much to that going down in a

467
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: blaze of glory mythology that is, it's almost it's really

468
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: interesting when you look at history, how well is that

469
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: really what happened? Um. You know a lot of the

470
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: it's unfortunate, but a lot of the research suggests that, um,

471
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: you know, he may well have just surrendered and been executed,

472
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: you know. And then they you know, they were at

473
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: that point, Um they were the Mexicans were piling them

474
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: up and making funeral pyres out of them, you know,

475
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: And so nobody really wants to remember Crockett that way,

476
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: you know. And you know, when they did the film

477
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: The Alamo was ten years ago with Billy Bob Billy

478
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: Bob Thornton, it winds up being that the only man

479
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: stand his Crockett, and it wasn't so much like he's surrendered.

480
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 1: He just got captured, right and so you and then

481
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: he's very defiant. Oh yeah, ship talks Santa Anna. Yeah yeah.

482
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: They killed him with they kill him with bayonets. Yeah.

483
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 1: I mean I had to make sure, actually was very

484
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 1: careful that that movie came out while I was in

485
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: the finishing stages of the manuscript, and I made sure

486
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 1: not to watch. I mean, I didn't want Billy Bob

487
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: in my head as like that this is who, even

488
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 1: though he was a great Crockett, but like I'm sitting

489
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: there trying to you know, I thought he did a

490
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: great job. Me too, but not a great movie. But

491
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 1: he did a great job. He did a great he

492
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: steals the show, as he always does. But I didn't

493
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: want to have like my Crockett that was in my

494
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: brain be overtaken by you know, um, Carl Schilders and

495
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: Sling Blight or something, you know, with biscuits and mustard.

496
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: I didn't want that at all. So I was like,

497
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: so I watched it. After I watched it, after um

498
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 1: I had finished the manuscript, and then I was like, okay,

499
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: you know, damn, he kind of nails it. But as

500
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 1: far as what actually happens there, you know, I think

501
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 1: it's hard not to get swept up with the mythos,

502
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: right because it's a better ending. You know, if he

503
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 1: goes down firing at you know, they're out numbered, you know,

504
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: fifty to one or whatever. It is maybe more than that. Yeah,

505
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: and so, um, a lot of the North part of

506
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,719
Speaker 1: the album, I didn't realize the amount of being drunk

507
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: and being sick. Oh yeah, those god, I mean you're yeah,

508
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: these guys are just like they're either drunk or mortally ill. Right,

509
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: They've got dysentery and yeah, I mean it's horrible. Right.

510
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: So all right, I was gonna ask you if you

511
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about the Greeley Expedition, which, dude, it's

512
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:53,239
Speaker 1: given me nightmares, man, it should. Yeah, So let's talk

513
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: about Crocker first, all right, then we'll talk about the

514
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: Greeley Expedition, which is your new this is your forthcoming book, right, So,

515
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: Labyrinth of Ice, The Triumphant and Tragic Greeley Polar Expedition

516
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: is coming out on December three. Um, and it's I'm

517
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: really thrilled. Um, it's it was an tremendous project, unbelievable story.

518
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: It has basically everything that I don't think it should

519
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: come out in December because to read about being this

520
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: cold when it's cold out, it's disturbing. It should be

521
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: like a summer read. Yeah, look at my thumb. I

522
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: frols my thumb. Oh you're wow. Yeah, there's a ton

523
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: of frostbite in this book. Yeah, it frols my thumb

524
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: and now the skin is coming off of it. And

525
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: reading about these dudes, these dudes foot, he freezes his

526
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 1: feet so bad. Oh my god, he can't look and

527
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: eventually his foot falls off. They don't even tell him,

528
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: and he's still talking about how his foot tingles. That's

529
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: just like the horrible stuff. And then they like tether

530
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: a fork to this guy's hand so that he can

531
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: eat like by himself. They've been feeding him, you know.

532
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: It's yeah, we'll talk about we'll talk about. But here's

533
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: the thing you always hear about. Here's like Arctic like

534
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: Arctic explores and Antarctic explores. Like if you don't really

535
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: you always hear like, oh, you know, they go there

536
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: and they die, like oh of course, you know. But

537
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: to really understand this, such a good job of explaining

538
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: like step by step by step, day by day by day,

539
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: like what exactly goes wrong, and it's what goes wrong

540
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: is complex, very complex, and it's not just like, oh,

541
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: you went somewhere real cold and died. It's like governmental

542
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: failures upon governmental failures, and like like not understanding the

543
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: climate well and not understanding like what's normal in the

544
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: Arctic and abnormal in the Arctic, and it's let's talk

545
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 1: serious of unfortunate events. Feel you want a job, you

546
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: never have nothing to do? It depends what's that? That

547
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: was a double negative? Gonna send me to the Arctic?

548
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: No one? You didn't turn your clock on? Thank you

549
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: to uh you gotta let us know when we need

550
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: to switch to still have time to talk about Labyrinth

551
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: of Ice after you talk more about Crockett. Okay, Okay,

552
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: I'm mostly because you wrote You read the book a

553
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: long time ago. You wrote the book a long time ago,

554
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: so you're a little bit of a disadvantage. But I

555
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: was gonna ask you about some things about Crockett. Right

556
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: you said, we'll see how well you hold up. Okay,

557
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: I'm I'm game because of as a writer. If I

558
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: wanted to do an interview and some guy wanted to

559
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: talk about something I wrote a million years ago. I'd

560
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: be pissed. I know, I'm I'm well, I'm a little bitter,

561
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: but but I want to work around it. I actually

562
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: was primed slightly because a couple of years ago, I

563
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: was I was a talking head on a History Channel

564
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: show that um actually there was was well that this

565
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: one was exactly I was on the other side of

566
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: I was the person being interviewed. I was a Crockett

567
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: guy on a show called The Frontiersman, the Man who

568
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: Built America. That I was one of the boon guys. Yeah, okay,

569
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: well that's where I thought. And so I was a

570
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: Crockett guy. But you know, it was one of those

571
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: things where I was I was freaked out because at

572
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: the same what you're talking about. I mean, I had

573
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: written this book in you oh one or between oh

574
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: one and oh three, and then it came out and

575
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: oh five, and then here I'm being you know, you're

576
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: the Crockett guy, so let's hear about it. And I'm thinking,

577
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: got it. You know, I should probably um go read

578
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: my book, but anyway, I'm game. Yeah, I'll make it up.

579
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: If I don't remember Okay, I'll tell you something that

580
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: struck me about Crockett's biography that learned about your book.

581
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: The fact that his old man, the PA I got

582
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: the people in general were in the practice back then

583
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: in the early eight hundreds of hiring their children out

584
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: as indentured servants to settle debts, like like you bought

585
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: you borrow some money from a guy to buy some cows.

586
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: The cows all drowning, the rivers say, and the guys

587
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: that I need my money back. How about my boy

588
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 1: comes and lives on your place for a year exactly

589
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: and roots out old stumps and ship in your field,

590
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: and then we'll call it even. And that's how this

591
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: guy spent his childhood, I know. And the one that

592
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: blew me away was so his his old man is

593
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: always in debt, and Crockett was basically always in debt too.

594
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: Um just the bad, bad decisions and bad luck, you know.

595
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: And so his old man says, say, you know what

596
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: you're talking about. He's like, I know this guy, it's

597
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: a bunch of money. So what if I send a

598
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: little davy um on a like a cattle drive for

599
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: four hundred miles. That's gonna last months? Right, and Crocketts,

600
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: this little kid, you know, fourteen or think he was twelve,

601
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: and so he's like hoofing along, you know, prod and cattle, um,

602
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: and staying in in like roadhouses and like watching men

603
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,959
Speaker 1: drinking and horrorn and Crocketts, you know, just sitting there

604
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: as a little kid. You're right, I mean he was.

605
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: He was gone for months at a time, and um,

606
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: he gave me some ideas about like some stuff I

607
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: should have probably done better with my son. You know,

608
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: he's not you could have made a lot like but no,

609
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: you're right, I mean, it wasn't. It was such an

610
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: amazing time where you would just do whatever you had

611
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: to do, and it was not uncommon two you know,

612
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: sort of sholl out your kid for I think one point.

613
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: He was gone for two years. Yeah, that's I was

614
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 1: gonna mention that that he like he he got in

615
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:15,479
Speaker 1: a bunch of troll he like smart. I can't remember

616
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: what he did. He pissed his dad off, and his

617
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: dad kicked his ass. Yeah, well, so he kept he

618
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 1: was playing hooky, right, So he was playing hooky. Oh yeah,

619
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,760
Speaker 1: he said they're paying for him to go to school,

620
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 1: but he wasn't going to school to school. He would

621
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: go off it. He would head off to school and

622
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:30,919
Speaker 1: then just not go to school. And his old man

623
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: at one point um caught wind of this, uh, and

624
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 1: he was like waiting for him on the on the

625
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: road back to the house, and his dad like whooped

626
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: up on him with a cane stick, you know. And

627
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 1: then Crockett he uh, he let out for a little

628
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 1: while there. Yeah, and this is like when he was

629
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 1: coming into he's coming of age. Yeah, stay has gone

630
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 1: so long. This is where it's like almost like a

631
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: fake story. So here he'd done all this like indentured service,

632
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: you would, just to satisfy his dad's As his dad

633
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,760
Speaker 1: kicks his ass, he takes off for years ages works

634
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: odd jobs like working on mule trains and wagon things,

635
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: and almost got on a boat and sailed, you know,

636
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: tried to go to Europe, try to go to Europe,

637
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 1: but his other boss wouldnt let him off the hood. Unbelievable.

638
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 1: All this crazy stuff happens. But it's like it's out

639
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: of like Homer's Odyssey. It's kind of like a stick.

640
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: It's like the products like the Prodigal Sun deal a

641
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: little bit where Crockett goes back and he's he's been

642
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: gone so long that he's able to go back and

643
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: go into his family and not tell anyone who he is, right,

644
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 1: and they actually get away with it, right, And he's

645
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 1: sitting in a in a like a but they would

646
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: call it. It wouldn't be a cafe, but like a

647
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,399
Speaker 1: you know, like a roadhouse, and his sister recognized him.

648
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: It recognized him, and then they're like, oh my god,

649
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: it's David, you know. And at that point he makes

650
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: he's really funny, you know, Crockett is very funny. But

651
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 1: he makes some comment about how like, yeah, I think

652
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: it had been gone long enough that my old man's

653
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: ire was probably down by now, you know, but you

654
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: still remember the caning, so you know, he's like still

655
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: looking over his shoulder a little bit. And then went

656
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: off sells a bunch more debts. And then another thing

657
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: that like just kind of walking through like how this

658
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: guy's life went is um the degree to which when

659
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: he sets out like in those days from we should

660
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 1: established like he's like a frontier character. These are all

661
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: like like like Boone's family, These are like transient people's

662
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: absolutely explain how they're always living somewhere and getting displaced

663
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 1: and living somewhere and getting displaced. Right. So you know

664
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: Crocket's life and many of the Um the frontier lifestyle.

665
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: You know, we look at it sort of romantically, but

666
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: in many cases that was always about land. I mean

667
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,439
Speaker 1: it still is, but you know what was always about

668
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,919
Speaker 1: land and then trying to make a go of it, right,

669
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: and a lot of times things didn't work out. You know,

670
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 1: in many cases Crockett's Um family, uh, he would he

671
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: would do. He would start in on a project, like

672
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:02,760
Speaker 1: they would build a gristmill, right, so they're gonna grind

673
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: flour and live on on the river and you know,

674
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: have a small plot and you know, stake your claim

675
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: and make a go of it. But the elements would

676
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: just always mess with them. So they would have like

677
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: a you know, a flood right takes out the grist Right,

678
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: So now Crockett's gotta go on, like okay, now he

679
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 1: already borrowed all the money to build the thing, right, right,

680
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 1: so now he's like dead again. So they would move,

681
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: you know, just up and go and then move on

682
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: to the next thing. And it just became this perpetual

683
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 1: um westward movement. In fact, I mean his his entire

684
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: life was a westward move. And that's one of the

685
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: things that you know, I found interesting about like how

686
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: he finally goes to the Alamo because he was ultimately

687
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: just still looking for more land. He was looking for

688
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 1: a new start. It was his whole life is about

689
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: finding making a new start. His old man too. And

690
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: that was the thing I kind of got because I

691
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,240
Speaker 1: knew that was with like, you know, several decades earlier

692
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 1: with Boone, where they'd always be going like on the

693
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: American frontier, you don't guys have people who are poor

694
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,919
Speaker 1: and yearning to like make their way right, like sort

695
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 1: of capitalism at work, and they'd always be moving to

696
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 1: a place they kind of weren't supposed to be in

697
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 1: Boone's area, was like because the British had said the

698
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: British had a lot of Indian allies west of the Appalachians,

699
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 1: and the British said, we don't want any of our

700
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: American columnists like, don't go over there. And what is

701
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: the first thing that they do is they're like, well,

702
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go over there, So I'll go there and

703
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: live and I'll they'll sort it out, and they'll eventually

704
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: sort it out in the end, and there's always like

705
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: people um. And then it continues in Crocketts are people

706
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 1: like sort of jump on the gun, like the Louisiana

707
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: purchase happens, and they haven't like we did the purchase,

708
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: but weren't really clear on what we bought, and they're

709
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: just already like people just immediately start moving into these places,

710
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: being like it'll work out. Yeah, let's send Lewis and

711
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 1: Clark and to see how much we actually have. Yeah,

712
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: and people people are like, well, dude, already moved there,

713
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: so right. Well, in in Crockett's case, it gets complicated

714
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: too by the you know the fact that there were

715
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: Indian people's already living there, right, so you know, not

716
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: even supposed to be there from that perspective to right.

717
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,720
Speaker 1: And one of the things I really found endearing about

718
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: Crockett um is his you know, he he was a

719
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: complicated figure, but so he was very sensitive to um

720
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 1: even though he had spent some time you know, under

721
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: Andrew Jackson like going off hunting up you know, he

722
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 1: used to put it that way, like hunting up Indians. Yeah,

723
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: they used the term like he got sent down to

724
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: Florida in the Creek War, kill up kill up some

725
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: Engines Indians. Yeah, and so but you know, even within that,

726
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 1: I think he had a lot of reverence for UM.

727
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 1: The fact that you know, he lived off the land.

728
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: They lived off the land he was for you know,

729
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 1: so I had firsthand knowledge of and learned from tribes

730
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: of the encountered. And you know, he he was the

731
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: only UM delegate, I believe, yeah, in the that voted

732
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: against the Indian Removal ACTUM from Tennessee. So like he

733
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: had a huge political price, right, and so you know,

734
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 1: he got he got that struggle and he understood that

735
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: because he had spent his whole life, you know, in

736
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: hard scrabble existence just trying to eke out something UM.

737
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: And you know, so that's one of the things that

738
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:14,399
Speaker 1: I really found UM. I connected with that element of him,

739
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: you know, persona uh. And I want to talk about

740
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: his political career a little bit. But a thing about

741
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 1: his political career is like kind of his sort of

742
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 1: his foundational thing. Like if you imagine like universal healthcare

743
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: being like Obama's thing, right, Obamacare, that was his thing.

744
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: Crockett's thing as a congressman was to basically legitimize squatters, right,

745
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:43,399
Speaker 1: because he was the cheap squatter, like to legitimize all

746
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,439
Speaker 1: those people that headed off in the wilderness and weren't

747
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: really like clear where they were, who owned what, and

748
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: they like built a cabin to like give them the land.

749
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 1: And that was sort of his thing. That was like

750
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: his thing, and he could never drive it across hold

751
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: it off. And you know what I found really interesting

752
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 1: about that is that through all that process, I mean,

753
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: he was basically kind of representing the common man, you know,

754
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 1: he was, he was a representative of the common man.

755
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,280
Speaker 1: Um And you're right, I mean he never really he didn't.

756
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:16,760
Speaker 1: He was He failed to pass basically any um any bills.

757
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: He was always out hunting, you know, he preferred um,

758
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: he preferred hunting uh to politicking. But he ended up

759
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: being very good at politicking, right, So he he was

760
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 1: he was able to create this kind of mystique and persona.

761
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: And I mean I call him like the first celebrity.

762
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: I mean, you can maybe say that Benjamin Franklin was

763
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: the first celebrity. Yeah, but you use a use the

764
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: term you talked about. That's why I feel it was

765
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,399
Speaker 1: interesting to look at his political career and then uh,

766
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: look at Trump's political career. Can you talk about the

767
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: Crockett was the first American to be famous for being famous, right.

768
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: I mean people knew people liked him because they just

769
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: knew that he was famous, right. And I mean we're

770
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, at a time when um in

771
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 1: newspaper was moved very slowly across the frontier, right, and

772
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: information the passage of information was done you know, on

773
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,879
Speaker 1: horseback and through on riverboats. Right. And so you've got

774
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: a guy who was it's profound. He was able to

775
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,760
Speaker 1: create such um, a frenzy and a mystique about himself.

776
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: I mean plays were written about him during his lifetime.

777
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: He went he went to a play watching a guy

778
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: playing him, you know, and he's in the audience and

779
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: he's like, um, I, you know, I am nobody. There

780
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,919
Speaker 1: was not the term celebrity at the time, but um,

781
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: I don't believe. But you know, he was able to

782
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: become such a commodity that people would line the streets

783
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: when they heard he was coming, and you know he

784
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: like reach out to try to touch him as he

785
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: went by, you know, and then he would be fetted

786
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,479
Speaker 1: and he would be you know, given all sorts of uh,

787
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: you know, honorary awards and he hadn't really ever done anything.

788
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 1: You know, I do you have anyone? No? Yeah. I

789
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: want to back up a little bit to talk about

790
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: when he kind of comes of age and he's a

791
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: young man and he sets out very deliberately to find

792
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: a wife, and it's a it's a really good way

793
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: of like thinking about how frontier cultures worked, and like

794
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: frontier situations worked where people were so pragmatic. There's a

795
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: quote you have in the book that I've been using

796
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: all the times, my new favorite quote. No one knows

797
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: what the hell it means, but it's, um, you gotta

798
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 1: salt the cow if you want to catch the cat,

799
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: help the cow to catch the cap. So like he's

800
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: like pragmatic transactional relationships that would happen within frontier communities

801
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: where it's like I have a daughter, Um, this could

802
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: probably fetch me a good if I play my cards right,

803
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 1: I should be able to wrangle this daughter into a

804
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: helpful son in law. And he's like, I'm a helpful man.

805
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: I gotta do sure, like to get my hands on

806
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 1: your daughter. And it's like it's like you're it's like

807
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 1: you're buying cat. Yeah, And I mean that term you

808
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,800
Speaker 1: use pragmatic is so appropriate, and it's true. It's like, um,

809
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:08,919
Speaker 1: you know, what do you got? What am I gonna

810
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 1: give you for it? Um? You know? And uh yeah,

811
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 1: he was really the whole salt the cow to catch

812
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: the calf was funny because Crockett understood that if the mother,

813
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: if he sweep talked the mom, right, he was flirting

814
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 1: with them. He was flirting with the mom. You know,

815
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 1: he was working the mom and and then you know

816
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: he had to win her over, uh you know, assault

817
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 1: to get the calf to get his bride. You know,

818
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: I was a real mis you had. In the book.

819
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 1: There's sex lives. Were they promiscuous? That's does anyone talk

820
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,439
Speaker 1: like is there any way to know like when they're

821
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,359
Speaker 1: courting and and sneaking around in the woods and having

822
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: like little chats, but plotting and figuring are they having

823
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: sex or not? I'm guessing they're having sex. Yeah, So

824
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: you think there was there was promiscuity on the frontier, Yeah,

825
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 1: almost certainly. Listening they don't Lewis and Clark. There was

826
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: a lot of promise that expedition. Crockett, you know, was

827
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: very careful in crafting his own image. So he wrote

828
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 1: his his own um autobiography like during his lifetime, knowing

829
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 1: that it was going and he and he was like

830
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 1: he really funny. He's like I wanted to be over

831
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: two hundred pages. That was If it was two hund pages,

832
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: it was worthwhile. It's like pretty random, but I don't

833
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 1: know that was the measure of a good book to

834
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: oh to becoming in on. So Crockett was like crafted

835
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: this um very carefully, and so you know he when

836
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,919
Speaker 1: he talks about like courtship and he's a little coy

837
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: about that stuff. And I think there was a kind

838
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 1: of yeah, like like yeah, Lewis and Clark, Yeah, they

839
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 1: don't know how they phrase it. They don't intimate. But

840
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: then you later learn children they like siren kids and

841
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 1: and those things like you could there's like sort of

842
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 1: this nineteen fifties version of what frontiers people were like, right,

843
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: I mean they're doing it in the woods of course, yeah, yes, ma'am, no, ma'am.

844
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: But he read this progress like, man, these people are greasy,

845
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 1: double dealing. Yeah, not like not patriotic, not necessarily because

846
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: like the idea of the US is still taking shape, right, yeah,

847
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 1: kind of like what country man, sure, Americans, I don't know.

848
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: I mean they got land. Don't you think it's just

849
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: because survival trumped all that other stuff? Yeah, just like

850
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: there was yeah, like drunkenness, Yeah, probably, Yeah. I don't

851
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 1: think there was a lot of time to ponder patriotism

852
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: when you're trying to figure out like how you're gonna

853
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: eat that night, you know, yeah, or if you're gonna

854
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: you know, if you're gonna be able to have shelter. Um,

855
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: it was tough, and he was kind of I was

856
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:52,919
Speaker 1: surprised too, is he was sort of on the fence

857
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: about religion, had a hard time with it. Yeah. Yeah,

858
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 1: I mean and I tried at times, tried at times

859
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 1: to become more fightful, struggled with his lack struggled with

860
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 1: his own lack of faith. Yeah, well don't don't some

861
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:10,720
Speaker 1: of us people do. Yeah, I mean he's honest about

862
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: that too, Um, because you know, I think at that

863
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 1: at that time, you know, it was very important too.

864
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: I mean, faith was such an anchoring part of one's

865
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 1: life on the frontier. I mean you had that, you know,

866
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 1: you had family faith. But yeah, he he struggled with it.

867
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: He didn't really talk too much about it as a

868
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:30,959
Speaker 1: matter of fact. I mean in terms of his own

869
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 1: he's sort of ambivalent. Yeah, but there's were there were

870
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: rumors that he was a flanderer, and rumors that he

871
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 1: was a drunk. Yeah yeah, and rumors that he was like,

872
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,439
Speaker 1: you know, the greatest shot in the West. But it's

873
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 1: like or you know what they called the West at

874
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: the time. Uh. He and he did win, um you know,

875
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: he won some shooting competitions and it was a big

876
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:55,439
Speaker 1: badge of honor back then. You know, you would you'd

877
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:57,800
Speaker 1: go to a shooting competition and like win a cow,

878
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:02,280
Speaker 1: you know that they come home leading the cow. Hefer,

879
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like, uh, okay that I mean

880
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: that that's currency. Yeah. He did get involved in some

881
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 1: really horrific Indian wars. Yeah, Like his life really changed

882
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: after that. What's that Fort Sims? Yeahs. There's a scene

883
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 1: I don't know if you read that scene when there's

884
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: a section that I almost can't read anymore when he

885
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: recalls what happened there, um because he so they they're

886
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 1: retaliating for a massacre that had happened. Um. Crockett's in

887
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 1: this small band of um you know, so called Indian fighters. Yeah.

888
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 1: But yeah, but I was I can't remember, I wish

889
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 1: I had it from the name of the someone's got

890
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 1: looked this up. Forms the four Mims was were the

891
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 1: Creeks came into massacred the whites, and in the whites

892
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: retaliated the This is like total warfare, no kidding, Yeah,

893
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 1: And Crocett was on this um small squad that came

894
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 1: in for retaliation, and they they had been told that

895
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: there were a bunch of Creek Indians at this actually

896
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 1: they had the Creek Indians had overtaken before and we're

897
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 1: still there. And so there were women and children, and

898
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 1: um Crockett in a bunch of men came in and

899
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,399
Speaker 1: he says, you know, we shot them like dogs, and

900
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: he there's a really sort of horrific image that I

901
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:37,839
Speaker 1: can never shake. Um the potato things, Yeah, talking about

902
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 1: the potato thing. So there's like a potato cellar and

903
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 1: these uh they light they shoot all the Indians and

904
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 1: then they light these buildings on fire. And Crockett describes

905
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: the Greek they ended up eating the potatoes, and he

906
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: describes that the grease from these humans that has um

907
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 1: basically melted from the fires, ripped down and sort of

908
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 1: season these spaces buds. It's freaking brutal, man, there's some

909
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 1: all those masakers you get like now like in the

910
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: wars we have now with the the rules of engagement,

911
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 1: you know, and we talk about how horrific war is now.

912
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: I think here's the point I'm trying to get at.

913
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 1: When you read about the American Frontier and it moved

914
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 1: right at this point, the American frontiers, I mean, northern

915
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: Florida is part of the American Frontier at this time.

916
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 1: For the last people to talk about, Oh, politicians are

917
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:40,359
Speaker 1: so crooked now or we're so violent now, dude, Oh man,

918
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: the crookedness and atrocities that people would commit in those

919
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 1: times to like just go into a village of people

920
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:52,839
Speaker 1: not like not like, not like it's something would get

921
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,879
Speaker 1: prosecuted for war crimes to be celebrated. You'd go into

922
00:50:55,880 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 1: a village and do total warfare, meaning to kill every man,

923
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 1: woman and child you can get your hands on, and

924
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 1: then burn every piece of evidence that they ever existed,

925
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 1: and eat the spuds, eat the spuds, and then go

926
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 1: to the next town. Right. And but I will say

927
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 1: that crockett Um he seemed to authentically feel guilt about

928
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 1: that and shaken you know, and and and you know,

929
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,439
Speaker 1: I mean who wouldn't be But like in those days, yeah,

930
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: I mean we would you think of it as just

931
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: you could move on, you know. But we now know

932
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: that you know, what with with soldiers coming back from

933
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,720
Speaker 1: war and PTSD and um that you know, any human

934
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 1: who perpetrates that kind of violation on another human, no

935
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: matter how you're going to justify it in your mind

936
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: as being you know, your job in the army, Um,

937
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 1: it's going to leave a mark. There's two contemporary westerns

938
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: they come out recently, Um, The Sisters Brothers, which is

939
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: Joaquin Phoenix and John c Riley, which I think is

940
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 1: a fun nominal Western, and then the Christian Bale One West,

941
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: Douicy Hostiles, Student Duty. Uh, both of those movies. It's

942
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 1: like every every like Westerns always due for us, Like

943
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: every generation gets thrown Western hopefu. Okay, So you may like, like,

944
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 1: you know, like in the seventies, a Western in the

945
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 1: seventies felt like the seventies, right. I was like, Oh,

946
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 1: but you guys, Sunday as a kid, it's like, oh,

947
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 1: they're smart talkers, They're like they're you know, detached, like

948
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 1: the party, right, right, that's what a westerns. And now

949
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: these two contemporary westerns, what they're mostly about is the

950
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,879
Speaker 1: fact that everybody on the frontier had PTSD. Yeah, they're

951
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 1: all just walking around like it's like but it's a

952
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 1: revelatory of course they did. You look at like the

953
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 1: things that and Crockett wasn't even like a hard driving

954
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 1: like he was hired into the military to be a

955
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 1: hunter to shoot meat for the army, but he still

956
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 1: had exposure to things that just like things that no

957
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 1: person sees, right, it's you know, like burn, like piling

958
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: up dead women and children and piles and torturing the

959
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 1: piles of them, and it's just like, yeah, I mean,

960
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 1: like no ship like you hadn't been a mess or

961
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:23,320
Speaker 1: there were I mean maybe certain people have the ability

962
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 1: to compartmentalize it, you know in ways that um it's

963
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: harder to do anymore. I don't know, But do you

964
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:34,320
Speaker 1: like it has to be that there had like violence. Okay,

965
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: here's the way you're looking at it. And this is

966
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 1: the point I brought before, Phil. How many dead people

967
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 1: have you seen? A lot? Three? But you know they've

968
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 1: all been made up and putting about going about your business.

969
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 1: Ne's a dead Person zero. I've seen a handful, um

970
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 1: just freakently. I was at a old lady's birthday party

971
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 1: once in the cater fell dead. I watched my dad die,

972
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 1: some car crash victims, airplane crash victims. But I feel

973
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 1: like I've run into a lot of it. A lot

974
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 1: of people you can go to. You can live to

975
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: be thirty four years old and not see dead people.

976
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 1: But these guys, I'm surprised they can get around with

977
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:26,359
Speaker 1: all the dead people laying. Everybody's dead and die and

978
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 1: and at much younger age. Your wife, My wife died,

979
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 1: she was having a baby and she's dead, and hauled

980
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 1: her out back and like, yeah, the kids die. You

981
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 1: could say that they are inured to it in some way,

982
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: you know. Death. Yeah, it was. It was all over

983
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 1: the place, and um, that's what a lot of the

984
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 1: you know, I think Westerns don't sort of focus on.

985
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 1: Really it's like the you know, the impact of that

986
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,879
Speaker 1: kind of thing. Watched Sisters Brothers. I'm psyched. Yeah, I'm sorry.

987
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I'm like the last person in

988
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: the world to have just finished Deadwood. You know, I

989
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:02,279
Speaker 1: heard there's the movies coming out, so I was like,

990
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 1: I better catch up and watch the show Sisters Brothers

991
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: is phenomenal, but it didn't do well and people are like, oh,

992
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 1: it's the death of the Western. I don't know, I

993
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 1: think Western's a ride again. Yeah, let's let's keep moving along.

994
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 1: Crocott had bad malaria, Yeah, well, but didn't everybody didn't

995
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:20,319
Speaker 1: know what malaria was, right, So a lot of times

996
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:22,320
Speaker 1: that's why when you were is funny we're talking about earlier,

997
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 1: how everybody was, you know, just lying around either drunk

998
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: or sick, and partly drunk and sick or drink trying

999
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: to drink through your sickness. Um, but you know everybody

1000
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:37,919
Speaker 1: had malaria, not everybody, but you know, there wasn't really

1001
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 1: um a remedy for malaria at the time. Um in

1002
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,280
Speaker 1: the fact that look that up when you know, when

1003
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 1: did uh malaria medicine when they called the billious Billius

1004
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 1: fevers the billiest fever you know, and so people are just, um,

1005
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:58,359
Speaker 1: he's out there trying to do his businesses, out there,

1006
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:00,439
Speaker 1: trying to hunt out there, trying to get food, trying

1007
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:03,839
Speaker 1: to build cabins, and you know they're like shaking feverishly

1008
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 1: and not able to hold her food and you know. Yeah,

1009
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 1: it's funny too because like he had been down in Florida,

1010
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 1: but he's also in Tennessee. So's he's got he's got malaria.

1011
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 1: Then at times he's almost freezing to death, but having

1012
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:16,959
Speaker 1: about of malaria, right then they can you know, still

1013
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 1: got it and he's right think of it. You think

1014
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 1: of it as tropical, right, right, Yeah, I mean it's

1015
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,239
Speaker 1: my god, some of those stories where he's like really

1016
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 1: sick and he's out in the woods, um, and he

1017
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 1: breaks through the ice and he gets you know completely Um.

1018
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 1: Basically he's walking around hypothermic and in order to he's

1019
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:42,359
Speaker 1: hypothermic and it's got malarial and from fevers. But then

1020
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 1: he punch right yeah, and so to stay warm. I

1021
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:49,359
Speaker 1: love this one sequence when he oh, shimmy is up

1022
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 1: this tree like multiple times and then he will shimmy

1023
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:56,319
Speaker 1: up to the top of the tree which doesn't have

1024
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 1: a lot of branches on it, and then he slides

1025
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 1: down it to create weren't punish his body by the

1026
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:03,439
Speaker 1: friction of sliding down the freaking tree. Yeah, he's stuck

1027
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: out in the woods overnight, and he says that he

1028
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:09,800
Speaker 1: a hundred times climbed it and shimmied it to warm

1029
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 1: the inside of his legs, arms, and belly with the

1030
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 1: friction to not die. He's like becomes It's a good

1031
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 1: trick man. Yeah. I mean you might try it on

1032
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 1: one of your next hunch if you get frostbitten. His uh,

1033
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 1: he had a lot. He had something like interesting hunting

1034
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 1: things that The thing that surprised me too, is uh

1035
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 1: you talked about this? Is it his uncle? I think

1036
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 1: his mom's brother was out hunting once and see something

1037
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:34,919
Speaker 1: moving in the grapes and see something moving, it thinks

1038
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 1: it's a bear picking grapes, shoots it and it's his neighbor.

1039
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 1: And Crockett says, how his dad put a silk handkerchief.

1040
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 1: How how this came up, I don't know. Put a

1041
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 1: silk handkerchief into one side of him and drew it

1042
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 1: out the other side of him. Everyone thought the guy

1043
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 1: would die. It's like, yeah, flosses like flosses the whole

1044
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,080
Speaker 1: out with a silk handkerchief. The guy lives, and no

1045
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 1: one quite knows what I happened doing, but he got

1046
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 1: better and went away. Yeah. I love that at that scene,

1047
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 1: And but you want to think, like when someone shoot,

1048
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 1: when a hunter shoots a person thinking it's game. I'm

1049
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 1: always like, not only did you think it was a deer,

1050
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 1: you thought it was a buck and you thought you

1051
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 1: were aiming at its lungs. So a person and now

1052
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 1: their gut shot. Uh. Yeah. Crockett was always great at

1053
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:29,720
Speaker 1: the at the detail. I mean, you know the image

1054
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 1: of that handkerchief passing through this, the whole through this awesome.

1055
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 1: Uh he uh. He like he did kill a hell

1056
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 1: of a lot of bears. The numbers of black bears

1057
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 1: are pretty staggering. And it's like at various times in

1058
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:44,960
Speaker 1: his life he'd try to get businesses gone, but he'd

1059
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 1: always kind of resort to going He'd like, we go hunting,

1060
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 1: market hunting. Yeah. It was like he's that's what he

1061
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 1: liked to do. And so everything to go to ship

1062
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: you take off and go hunt. Everything goes. It takes off,

1063
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 1: go hunting. He talks about he found out what you do? Yeah. Uh.

1064
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 1: He finds a guy who Crockett one of his hunting

1065
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:07,400
Speaker 1: expeditions finds a guy who has hired on with a

1066
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 1: landowner to dig stumps and roots to grub out a field.

1067
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 1: And he's like, why are you doing this work? And

1068
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 1: grubbing out the field. The guess says, I don't have

1069
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 1: any money. I can't buy any meat for my family.

1070
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 1: So Crockett talks the dude into working for him, packing

1071
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,720
Speaker 1: bear meat and salt in it, and they go off

1072
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 1: that day and they kill four bears. They hunt for

1073
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 1: another week and they kill seventeen more bears, and as

1074
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 1: payment for the week's bear hunting labor, Crockett sends the

1075
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:45,479
Speaker 1: man home with one thousand pounds of bear meat, which

1076
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 1: the man and his family then eight for a year.

1077
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 1: At one point, crock and his hunting partners go out

1078
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 1: in the fall kill fifty eight bears. The bears hibernate,

1079
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 1: they come out in the spring, they go back out

1080
00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 1: and kill forty seven. So that year he killed a

1081
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 1: hundred and five black bears. And you point out, as

1082
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 1: much as like Crockett was prone to a little bullshit,

1083
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 1: you say that it was confirmed by a host of

1084
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 1: his contemporaries that they had had a hell of a

1085
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 1: year that year. Yeah, Banner, hundred and five black bears.

1086
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 1: What's the most that they've ever been taken in the

1087
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 1: state of Montana in one year. That's gotta that's a

1088
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 1: great question. Yeah, well, I mean I guess, I mean

1089
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: if there was, Yeah, he would have put a big

1090
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 1: dent in. So they put a big dent in the

1091
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 1: contemporary Annual Harvest Tennessee. Yeah, And I always wondered, you know,

1092
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 1: to what extent. Obviously Crockett was, um a teller of

1093
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 1: tall tales now but boom boom bags that up, boon kill.

1094
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:43,960
Speaker 1: They'd kill a hunter bears a year. I mean there

1095
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 1: were a lot of bears running around, and he said,

1096
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:47,800
Speaker 1: who talking about killing thirteen in a day once with

1097
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 1: humb but yeah, you guys his hunting with hounds, Yeah yeah,

1098
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:53,919
Speaker 1: and uh like large packs of hounds. Yeah, I mean

1099
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:58,919
Speaker 1: very effective. The Crockett also claims to kill a bear

1100
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 1: with his knife. Um you know that that is um, well,

1101
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 1: he he shoots it and then he has it cornered, prettiable,

1102
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 1: his version of his pretty believable. He gets in it,

1103
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 1: cripples it up, and it gets into a hole and

1104
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 1: he turns into a skirmish. But he It's funny you

1105
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 1: were talking about the the how he was rooting out

1106
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 1: those stumps. He always had these these phrases that are

1107
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 1: kind of memorable, but you never know what the hell

1108
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 1: he's exactly talking about like they're rubbing, rubbing out of field.

1109
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 1: But then he said, yeah, you got a rut hogger die,

1110
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 1: Like okay, I don't, Yes you do. That's good in

1111
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 1: life advice. I'm starry telling people got a root hogger die.

1112
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 1: Son gotta salted cow if you want to cutch the

1113
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 1: calf soun root hagger die. So the guy gets Crocket

1114
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 1: eventually gets into politics right accidentally, like people to float

1115
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 1: his name kind of as a joke. He runs with

1116
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 1: it and it brings up this weird thing where people

1117
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 1: like Crockett because he's a hell billy. He's a cane.

1118
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 1: He's from the canes, gentleman from the cane. Yeah, like

1119
01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 1: the cane breaks of the like the frontier. He's like

1120
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 1: a bear hunter. And he had to play that up

1121
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 1: right with his constituency, like because he's campaigning on the

1122
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 1: frontier and people wanted to see like this frontier sensibility

1123
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: that's like, this's like great hunter and it kind of

1124
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 1: more cared about, Like he would buy votes by buying

1125
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 1: jugs of whiskey. Oh I love that. One of his

1126
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 1: great techniques was to you know, he would go, you know,

1127
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 1: did they call him stump speeches. They actually stood on stumps,

1128
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 1: you know, and and and talk to whoever would listen

1129
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 1: to him, and uh, yeah, he would. He would always

1130
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 1: let the other person go first. Um, and then he

1131
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:34,840
Speaker 1: listened to whatever. One time, he just let the other

1132
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 1: guy go first, and then he like basically recited his

1133
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:41,200
Speaker 1: whole speech back again. And then but and then during

1134
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 1: that time, he was um handing out plugs of tobacco,

1135
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:49,439
Speaker 1: chewing tobacco and whiskey, and you know that he was saying, like, here,

1136
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 1: vote for me. He was, I'll give you this and

1137
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 1: you vote for me. Yes, it sounds like quid pro quo,

1138
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 1: but you know, he was good at it. He added,

1139
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 1: he understood people, and they liked him, you know, like

1140
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 1: he was a likable guy, and he was a hilarious storyteller,

1141
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 1: and he you know, he would build on the he

1142
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:13,240
Speaker 1: would elaborate, and I'm sure that he was exaggerating some

1143
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:16,680
Speaker 1: of the time, but he also understood but human nature

1144
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 1: and then they wanted to be told a story they

1145
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:20,800
Speaker 1: didn't want to be told. I don't know what he

1146
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 1: was going to do for him exactly. I don't think

1147
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 1: he knew what he was going to do for him.

1148
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:27,720
Speaker 1: Exactly and did nothing tried, But it was an interesting

1149
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: You talk about how it's hard to get around in

1150
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 1: the frontier back then, and so when two people, two opponents,

1151
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:35,360
Speaker 1: are campaigning, like they're campaigning for a congressional seat, it

1152
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 1: made sense they had to travel and room together together.

1153
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 1: So it's like Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump traveling together

1154
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:49,720
Speaker 1: and rooming together at night and arranging campaign speeches too,

1155
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 1: then get up in the morning, have breakfast together, go

1156
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 1: tear each other a new one in front of an audience,

1157
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 1: and then move on to the next town. And there's like,

1158
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 1: and you're talking about Crockett, he always liked to go

1159
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 1: second because he was memorable and funny and he just

1160
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:12,200
Speaker 1: wanted to leave people more. Yeah, it was tough about it.

1161
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 1: One time he's traveled with this guy and he always

1162
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 1: goes sacking. So he listens to him and eventually he

1163
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 1: has to go first, and he gets nervous. So what

1164
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 1: he does, he'd hurt his opponent's speech. So many times

1165
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:26,959
Speaker 1: he just gives the opponent's speech and leaves the guy

1166
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:29,400
Speaker 1: with nothing to say because it's like his recited stump

1167
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:31,840
Speaker 1: speech and Crockett had already given it, right, doesn't have

1168
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 1: a backup speech, you know that he can just go

1169
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:36,120
Speaker 1: to and he talks to Like. The thing that Crockett

1170
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:40,480
Speaker 1: was kind of funny is he's campaigning, he's campaigning against

1171
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 1: and traveling with a guy who's lost a leg, and

1172
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:47,520
Speaker 1: the guy has a wooden peg and they got and

1173
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:50,880
Speaker 1: they're staying in the guy's house and Crockett takes a

1174
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 1: wooden chair and at night mimics the sound of the

1175
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:58,960
Speaker 1: wooden The guy with the would like mimics the sound

1176
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:02,440
Speaker 1: of him walking around own and goes and bangs on

1177
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 1: the daughter the farmer's daughter's bedroom door. She gets upset

1178
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:12,160
Speaker 1: and starts yelling, and he makes them with his wooden

1179
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:15,120
Speaker 1: chair back to his room to create the impression in

1180
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:17,760
Speaker 1: the farmer's mind that the man who was missing a

1181
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 1: leg had tried to sneak into his daughter's bedroom and

1182
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:26,720
Speaker 1: his daughter. Yeah, it's Crockett was diabolical like that, you know. Yeah,

1183
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:29,800
Speaker 1: we talked about how you know, cutthroat politics are now.

1184
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:32,560
Speaker 1: I mean, these guys were just they were they were terrible.

1185
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:36,120
Speaker 1: They were terrible. Yeah, he had to play the bumpkin, right,

1186
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 1: but then like everybody who he played the bumpkin and

1187
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:43,680
Speaker 1: railed against like hated the rich. Yeah, he's so badly

1188
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:48,160
Speaker 1: wanted to be rich. He wanted to be rich bad Yeah.

1189
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 1: I mean, which is like everybody that most people are

1190
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:54,360
Speaker 1: in that situation, right like when you're poor, you're like

1191
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:57,440
Speaker 1: a rich people. But like so if I like, so

1192
01:05:57,560 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 1: you're telling me right now, if I like, was it

1193
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 1: like you know what, dude, here here a few million bucks,

1194
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:03,919
Speaker 1: You're like, I don't want it. I hate the rich, dude,

1195
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:06,880
Speaker 1: you'd take it so fast right now. Yeah, But I

1196
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 1: mean I think he was Crockett was probably torn by

1197
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:13,480
Speaker 1: that a lot, because you know, he I think what

1198
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 1: he wanted more was to just be to have the

1199
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 1: freedom to not always be behind, you know. I think

1200
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 1: that's what a lot of people want to, to not

1201
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 1: be in debt just you know, all the time and

1202
01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 1: have that chasing you you know. And so he did

1203
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 1: what he could, you know, and if that meant like

1204
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 1: reshaping the way his um persona was, he would you know.

1205
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:38,160
Speaker 1: He was a chameleon. He was just good at being

1206
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:41,920
Speaker 1: what people wanted to see. Um. Yeah, but uh, I

1207
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 1: think he did want I don't know that he wanted

1208
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:48,280
Speaker 1: like finery, you know, because he's the happiest, you know,

1209
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:51,080
Speaker 1: he didn't want to. When you get when you gave

1210
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 1: Hi an opportunity to do what he really wanted to do.

1211
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:54,160
Speaker 1: He vanished in the woods and go hunt and he's like,

1212
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:56,640
Speaker 1: get my gun and my dogs, I'm going out. You know.

1213
01:06:57,240 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 1: It's kind of a sad part of his political career

1214
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 1: as he get to Washington and they turn his uh,

1215
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:05,800
Speaker 1: they turn his hillbilly stuff against him. Like he's had

1216
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:09,200
Speaker 1: some formal dinner and a waiter goes to clear his

1217
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:12,720
Speaker 1: plate and he like did or didn't. It's think that

1218
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:15,480
Speaker 1: the waiter was trying to steal his food. And they

1219
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 1: had finger bowls back then, and he got thirsty. He

1220
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 1: was drinking everyway out of the finger bowl and he's like, yeah,

1221
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:25,160
Speaker 1: don't jack my meal, and the guys just trying to,

1222
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 1: you know, take his plate away and he's like, give

1223
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 1: me that back, man, I have a right. And so

1224
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 1: they really turned it against him, and that he was

1225
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:34,720
Speaker 1: like in the finer circles. It was like he was

1226
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:38,080
Speaker 1: a buffoon and it hurt his feelings. Man. Yeah, I

1227
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 1: mean you could see that if you if you you know,

1228
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:43,600
Speaker 1: nobody wants to be um made to look like you're

1229
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 1: not appropriate or that you're not um you don't have

1230
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:52,000
Speaker 1: the right clothes, or that you you don't have good manners,

1231
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 1: you know. But then they were brutal too because they

1232
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 1: were just write about it in the papers and say,

1233
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:59,479
Speaker 1: you know the bumpkin buffoon Crockett who tried to drink

1234
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:01,400
Speaker 1: out of the finger bowl, you know, and then it's

1235
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:04,960
Speaker 1: like totally ruins your your image. And he was all

1236
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:07,680
Speaker 1: about like building image, and it made you less effective

1237
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 1: in doing the job of like trying to pass laws.

1238
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 1: She never figured out, no terrible politician. I had a

1239
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:14,560
Speaker 1: thing happened to me. I was in a I was

1240
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:17,040
Speaker 1: in Manhattan, and I was with my wife and we

1241
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:19,760
Speaker 1: went to a restaurant. We're in a big fight. I

1242
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 1: can't remember. We're fighting about she's super mad at me.

1243
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,040
Speaker 1: And I went and it was like there was a

1244
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:27,479
Speaker 1: bathroom you could member, but she'd know the name of

1245
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:33,000
Speaker 1: this restaurant. There's a bathroom where there's a uh big

1246
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 1: circular sink. The right. It's like a fountain, right right,

1247
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:43,640
Speaker 1: and the fountain is communal, it's co ed fountain. But

1248
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:46,640
Speaker 1: off the fountain is the men's room. In the woman's room.

1249
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 1: But I was a little drunk, and I mean I'm

1250
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 1: drunk in a fight with my wife, and I come

1251
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 1: down and I think that I'm in the men's room.

1252
01:08:56,439 --> 01:08:59,599
Speaker 1: You're not. I'm at the fountain. Oh man, you're urinating

1253
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:03,120
Speaker 1: in a fountain. Your name. So a woman comes in

1254
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:07,600
Speaker 1: and they're aghast. And I had white I had a

1255
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:11,160
Speaker 1: sweater on, a T shirt. And so she comes in

1256
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:13,240
Speaker 1: and she's got like, oh my god, what's going on

1257
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 1: and scurries into the woman's room. And then I'm like,

1258
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:20,639
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get found out. So I had a sweater

1259
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:22,439
Speaker 1: on and a T shirt, and I took my sweater

1260
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:24,040
Speaker 1: off so I looked. So she's like, he's got a

1261
01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:26,920
Speaker 1: green sweater. They wouldn't have me pegged. But my wife's

1262
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:28,599
Speaker 1: so mad at me. I get back to the table

1263
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:30,479
Speaker 1: and I can't be like, you'll never guess what happened.

1264
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:33,000
Speaker 1: You want to tell her? And so I'm sitting there

1265
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:35,200
Speaker 1: in my T shirt, waiting at any minute to someone

1266
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:38,519
Speaker 1: come up and strangle me for having like you know,

1267
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:42,760
Speaker 1: what have you done? Yeah, for having exposed myself. And

1268
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 1: she's like, normally i'd come up and be like, you'll

1269
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 1: never guess what happened, But because we're in a fight,

1270
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:50,120
Speaker 1: I couldn't really bring it up. And then also and

1271
01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:56,160
Speaker 1: and and also we're at the thing one time, and uh,

1272
01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:59,799
Speaker 1: we're we're having They had finger bowls, but they also

1273
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:02,960
Speaker 1: add these like little things you dip crab in the butter.

1274
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 1: In my mind, I was drinking the butter, right, my

1275
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:12,120
Speaker 1: wife still she still holds to this day. And I

1276
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 1: was drinking the contents of the finger bowl. But I

1277
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:17,360
Speaker 1: was like, no, I was drinking the other little container,

1278
01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 1: which was the butter container. And sure you shouldn't drink

1279
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:20,960
Speaker 1: the butter, but I was drinking the butter. Don't sound

1280
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:22,559
Speaker 1: was drinking the finger bowl. So when I got into

1281
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:24,760
Speaker 1: the finger bowl about Crockett, it really like it hit

1282
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:27,360
Speaker 1: a personal in my bet. So you're you're bumpkin too,

1283
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 1: what a personal note. I want to move on to

1284
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:34,599
Speaker 1: oh quick thing. Uh we don't really talk about too much,

1285
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:37,000
Speaker 1: but it's interested to like how conflicted Crockett was, like

1286
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:41,120
Speaker 1: like Jackson Um Jackson wanted to get all this money.

1287
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:47,639
Speaker 1: He wanted dollars because he wanted to relocate Cherokee, Chocks,

1288
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:49,719
Speaker 1: all these people he wanted to relocate him out west.

1289
01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:52,840
Speaker 1: Everyone was listening support of it on the frontier and

1290
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:56,360
Speaker 1: Crockett took a massive political hit and thought it was

1291
01:10:56,439 --> 01:11:00,519
Speaker 1: immoral to move him. Yeah he had slaves, man, Yeah

1292
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:05,320
Speaker 1: he had Yeah, like someone gave his family some slaves. Right,

1293
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:07,400
Speaker 1: But so you think that's a you call it a

1294
01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:11,519
Speaker 1: contradiction and not a contradiction, listen, Man, I really try

1295
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 1: not to like do the thing that everyone does these days,

1296
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:19,360
Speaker 1: which is take like contemporary notions and then engage people's

1297
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:21,559
Speaker 1: You don't never get anywhere with that stuff, right, But

1298
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:23,960
Speaker 1: I mean it's just surprising. Yeah, it is surprising. And

1299
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:26,960
Speaker 1: it goes back though to his Um. I think, you know,

1300
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:30,200
Speaker 1: maybe some guilt about Um, the Indian city he had

1301
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:34,519
Speaker 1: previously killed, having firsthand experienced with the way that Um

1302
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:37,200
Speaker 1: the Indians lived, and he was trying to live basically

1303
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:39,599
Speaker 1: off the land too. And then you know, you've got

1304
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 1: this guy who it was also about. He freaking hated Jackson, man,

1305
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:46,160
Speaker 1: he didn't like that guy. And you know here so

1306
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:48,720
Speaker 1: he was he was kind of Jackson. Jackson snubbed him

1307
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:51,280
Speaker 1: during the Creek War, right, and you know, Karaket wasn't

1308
01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:53,400
Speaker 1: able to rise up through the ranks. And then they

1309
01:11:53,439 --> 01:11:57,360
Speaker 1: also they were just contentious, like in in the halls

1310
01:11:57,360 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 1: of Congress. They were contentious all the time. Crockett like

1311
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:02,840
Speaker 1: nicknames for him and all them old Hickory and well

1312
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:08,040
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, he would spins on it. Yeah yeah, but

1313
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:10,600
Speaker 1: so Croc and I think just you know, wanted to

1314
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:13,000
Speaker 1: be contrary. Also at that point, he's like, you know,

1315
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 1: if this is what he's going for, I'm gonna But

1316
01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:19,519
Speaker 1: but I think he authentically saw the um that moving

1317
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:23,720
Speaker 1: people from their homes and displacing them, you know, the

1318
01:12:23,800 --> 01:12:28,000
Speaker 1: hundreds of miles away um was wrong, and he doubled

1319
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:30,200
Speaker 1: down on it. Yeah, like he you know, that was

1320
01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:33,160
Speaker 1: the end though, Yeah, politically like ends his political career.

1321
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:34,720
Speaker 1: And then later he's like, I would do the same

1322
01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:37,120
Speaker 1: thing today. Yeah yeah, and I don't care who brought

1323
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:40,000
Speaker 1: it up. Yeah, he says, you know, um, exactly I

1324
01:12:40,040 --> 01:12:42,840
Speaker 1: would cast that vote. It was basically like vote your conscience,

1325
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:45,760
Speaker 1: you know, like the old Ross Pero vote your conscience. Yeah.

1326
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:49,519
Speaker 1: So he he wins a congressional term. Uh, then winds

1327
01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:52,679
Speaker 1: up losing a congressional term. And when he campaigned here's

1328
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:54,400
Speaker 1: another thing about how like how he'd stick to his

1329
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:57,400
Speaker 1: word when he was campaigned, and he said, if I

1330
01:12:57,439 --> 01:13:01,519
Speaker 1: don't win, I'm going to Texas. Yeah, I'm done. He says,

1331
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:04,040
Speaker 1: y'all can go to Hell, and I'm going to Texas.

1332
01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:06,040
Speaker 1: And he loses. And what does he do. He just

1333
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:08,559
Speaker 1: strikes out for Texas, rounds up a bunch of his bodies,

1334
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 1: and he's famous, and he starts riding to Texas. And

1335
01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:12,840
Speaker 1: every time he comes to they know he's coming and

1336
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:16,320
Speaker 1: they're hooting and hollering, and he winds up like thinking

1337
01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:19,040
Speaker 1: it's gonna be the Promised Land in Texas and very

1338
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:23,200
Speaker 1: quickly winds about a little old place called the ALBUMO. Yeah,

1339
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:26,280
Speaker 1: he he bumbles into the album. I mean, the guy

1340
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:31,559
Speaker 1: was not like seeking, uh, seeking battle or seeking. He

1341
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:33,680
Speaker 1: was seeking. He wanted, like good hunting, a bunch of

1342
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:35,680
Speaker 1: lands right right, And so you know, it was one

1343
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:39,840
Speaker 1: of those really bad um He's bad timing for Crockett.

1344
01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:44,600
Speaker 1: It maybe great timing for his um legacy, you know, immortality,

1345
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:47,439
Speaker 1: but it was bad timing in terms of like being

1346
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:50,679
Speaker 1: able to get it, you know, forty acres. A connection

1347
01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:53,759
Speaker 1: I saw between the establishment of the Republic of Texas

1348
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:57,000
Speaker 1: and the Alamo and everything what what brought. And I

1349
01:13:57,320 --> 01:13:59,240
Speaker 1: read a lot of books about the Frontier, but a

1350
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:02,519
Speaker 1: connection I didn't realized until I read your book, Um

1351
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:08,479
Speaker 1: was the settlement practices that in going to Texas and

1352
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:12,760
Speaker 1: getting in trouble with the Mexicans and the Mexican army

1353
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:16,800
Speaker 1: really wasn't like that different than what his parents had

1354
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:18,960
Speaker 1: done and what he had always done, because the earlier

1355
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:21,200
Speaker 1: brought this idea that like, you're always trying to find

1356
01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:23,840
Speaker 1: the free ground, right, and so you're always moving to

1357
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:28,320
Speaker 1: places where it's not like you're sorting the details out later, right,

1358
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:31,400
Speaker 1: and somebody is always almost always already there, yeah, and

1359
01:14:31,479 --> 01:14:34,000
Speaker 1: someone's always like, yeah, you really shouldn't go over there,

1360
01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:36,400
Speaker 1: and you're like, yeah, you know, I figured out. Like

1361
01:14:36,479 --> 01:14:38,559
Speaker 1: the brants are like, we don't watch you over there,

1362
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:41,320
Speaker 1: and then tribes like you know that we conceded, like

1363
01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:43,160
Speaker 1: we made a deal and this is our land and

1364
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:44,840
Speaker 1: you can't come here, and you're like, I'll go figure

1365
01:14:44,840 --> 01:14:47,560
Speaker 1: it out. And then you like stake acclaim, but you

1366
01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:50,720
Speaker 1: never really file it. And then later you know, some

1367
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:52,920
Speaker 1: guys like, but I stick, I did it too, and

1368
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:54,639
Speaker 1: you have a big fight and one of your moves

1369
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:57,400
Speaker 1: and it goes on and on and on, and so

1370
01:14:57,479 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 1: it wasn't like it probably didn't feel that weird to

1371
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:03,240
Speaker 1: him to be going to Texas when he's sort of

1372
01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:06,800
Speaker 1: like aware of the idea that there is a government

1373
01:15:07,160 --> 01:15:10,400
Speaker 1: that's saying this is my ground right, and you're like,

1374
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:12,280
Speaker 1: i'll sort it out later, right, and we'll figure it

1375
01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:14,160
Speaker 1: out when we get there, and we may or may not.

1376
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:17,280
Speaker 1: There may not even be boundaries, there may not be

1377
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:22,479
Speaker 1: ownership is sort of questionable, right, Let's just figure it out,

1378
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:26,439
Speaker 1: um though. You know, so when he ends up at

1379
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:30,080
Speaker 1: the Alamo, that's the point where you have to decide,

1380
01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:33,240
Speaker 1: like how you feel about Crockett, right, I mean we

1381
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:36,160
Speaker 1: started there, but that I think you know, you either

1382
01:15:36,280 --> 01:15:40,600
Speaker 1: think here's a guy who bumbled into a skirmish that

1383
01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:43,559
Speaker 1: he had no knowledge of. Really, you know, he just

1384
01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:47,000
Speaker 1: he's been the wrong place at the wrong time, um,

1385
01:15:47,120 --> 01:15:50,519
Speaker 1: or you believe you can convince you went there to

1386
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:54,679
Speaker 1: die for an ideal. Many people have convinced themselves that

1387
01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:57,360
Speaker 1: that's what happened, that he went there to die for

1388
01:15:57,400 --> 01:16:00,960
Speaker 1: an ideal, for the you know, American dream. And it's

1389
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:03,080
Speaker 1: like it wasn't even really the American dream yet, no,

1390
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 1: we but we we like to call it the American dream, right,

1391
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:08,680
Speaker 1: it was like opportunity. Yeah, but you read about a

1392
01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:11,920
Speaker 1: lot of those guys were kind of in like America, sure,

1393
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:15,160
Speaker 1: but they wanted like Texas, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean

1394
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:18,280
Speaker 1: they were also wanting to, um, you know, be sort

1395
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:21,920
Speaker 1: of separate from everybody else, right. They weren't like, by god,

1396
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:24,040
Speaker 1: we're taking the American flag. It was a little bit

1397
01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:24,880
Speaker 1: of that, but it was a lot of It was

1398
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:28,880
Speaker 1: just kind of like what they wanted, right, like land,

1399
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:36,000
Speaker 1: land and land, and then uh, yeah, they all died.

1400
01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:40,040
Speaker 1: The animal Santa Ana comes in. He says, this is

1401
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:44,479
Speaker 1: an interesting too about the death is after it doesn't

1402
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:48,880
Speaker 1: take long. In general, Santa Anna, the leading the Mexican army, says,

1403
01:16:49,040 --> 01:16:51,280
Speaker 1: they try to be like, well, let's talk. He's like,

1404
01:16:51,320 --> 01:16:54,439
Speaker 1: at this point there is no talking. You will all die.

1405
01:16:54,640 --> 01:16:57,320
Speaker 1: And by the way, it's tomorrow morning and we're coming

1406
01:16:57,439 --> 01:17:00,400
Speaker 1: and there's not like there is no chat, right, and

1407
01:17:00,880 --> 01:17:02,960
Speaker 1: they put up a flag that says you all die.

1408
01:17:03,479 --> 01:17:06,360
Speaker 1: And then they all died. Well, right, And there's some

1409
01:17:06,400 --> 01:17:08,760
Speaker 1: really haunting moments, you know, when you slow it down

1410
01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:10,479
Speaker 1: and you still and you think about being inside the

1411
01:17:10,479 --> 01:17:15,519
Speaker 1: Alamo and looking out, you know, through through the logs

1412
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:18,360
Speaker 1: and slats and you see, you know, maybe three thousand

1413
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:22,200
Speaker 1: Mexican troops. Well, armed on horseback and you're you know,

1414
01:17:22,479 --> 01:17:26,960
Speaker 1: a couple hundred guys in this um enclosure going and

1415
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:30,920
Speaker 1: you know you're basically it's over. I mean, there's no

1416
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:33,840
Speaker 1: like you said, there's no more discussion. They're coming and

1417
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:36,519
Speaker 1: it it happens so fast, you know, like it's it's

1418
01:17:36,600 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 1: over in I mean maybe an hour, you know, and

1419
01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:47,000
Speaker 1: then it's just like they're swarmed upon these images I

1420
01:17:47,040 --> 01:17:50,240
Speaker 1: always had where like of them throwing those ladders up

1421
01:17:50,280 --> 01:17:54,160
Speaker 1: and just coming wave after wave after wave, um, you know,

1422
01:17:54,479 --> 01:17:57,840
Speaker 1: with muskets and bayonets and just impaling them. You know,

1423
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:03,840
Speaker 1: it's brutal. It's brutal. And then Sam Houston destroy Santa

1424
01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:07,840
Speaker 1: Ana's army in nineteen minutes. Well was it was the

1425
01:18:07,880 --> 01:18:13,680
Speaker 1: era of retaliation, right, So then okay, watch this transition.

1426
01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:22,240
Speaker 1: Fifty years goes by and we're trying to settle. Fifty

1427
01:18:22,280 --> 01:18:25,800
Speaker 1: years goes by, and our our young country is like,

1428
01:18:25,840 --> 01:18:27,880
Speaker 1: hey man, we should see what's going on in the Arctic.

1429
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:33,639
Speaker 1: Let's head north. Yeah, explain the quest for farthest north. Well,

1430
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:38,679
Speaker 1: so it's really interesting people. I mean at the time, um,

1431
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:43,680
Speaker 1: let's say, you know, eighteen fifties and you know Franklin

1432
01:18:43,720 --> 01:18:45,760
Speaker 1: and nobody really say, some people who are a little

1433
01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:48,160
Speaker 1: slow to the punch. All right, we've moved on to

1434
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:53,720
Speaker 1: Labyrinth of Ice, The Triumphant and Tragic Greely Polar Expedition,

1435
01:18:54,200 --> 01:18:57,839
Speaker 1: which is Buddy Leavy's brand new book. Thank you. Uh yeah,

1436
01:18:57,880 --> 01:19:00,960
Speaker 1: so what I found really pelling and I've I've been

1437
01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:04,599
Speaker 1: drawn to Arctic stories, um for a while, I mean,

1438
01:19:05,640 --> 01:19:08,920
Speaker 1: you know, ever since probably I mean great North stories.

1439
01:19:08,960 --> 01:19:11,360
Speaker 1: I mean you probably grew up reading Jack London too,

1440
01:19:11,479 --> 01:19:13,599
Speaker 1: And yeah, I like that. I've never been in I've

1441
01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:16,280
Speaker 1: never been into the organized explorations. Yeah, like I'm not

1442
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:21,280
Speaker 1: even a big Lewis and Clark guy, like the Freewheeland individuals. Yeah. Well, um,

1443
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:24,439
Speaker 1: in this case, what was so interesting is that no

1444
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:27,400
Speaker 1: one knew so that my book is set, this book

1445
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:32,240
Speaker 1: lebyrinthis is set in one and at that time, no

1446
01:19:32,320 --> 01:19:35,320
Speaker 1: one had been to the North Pole. No one even knew.

1447
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:40,280
Speaker 1: There was a belief that the North Pole was a

1448
01:19:40,400 --> 01:19:45,280
Speaker 1: ring of ice circumnavigating the pole, and with once you

1449
01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:48,800
Speaker 1: broke through this layer of ice, that the cs were

1450
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:52,760
Speaker 1: actually tropical. That's how confused people were. That's what they thought,

1451
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:54,960
Speaker 1: what happened, that's what well, that's what they thought that

1452
01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:57,120
Speaker 1: that's what they thought was up there. Um. I mean

1453
01:19:57,160 --> 01:20:00,719
Speaker 1: now listen and uh. So the British had been going

1454
01:20:00,840 --> 01:20:03,880
Speaker 1: up and Franklin, you know, trying to make the Northwest

1455
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:08,400
Speaker 1: passage much earlier. But essentially, you know, there was so

1456
01:20:08,479 --> 01:20:12,800
Speaker 1: much unknown um that the you know, higher northern latitudes

1457
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:17,000
Speaker 1: were speculated about what actually existed up there. Now they

1458
01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:20,360
Speaker 1: had been um, you know there was for some reason,

1459
01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:25,360
Speaker 1: people always want to go farther higher, right, so this

1460
01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:30,439
Speaker 1: farthest north Holy Grail became something that was a big

1461
01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:33,400
Speaker 1: patriotic badge of honor. You know, you were the you'd

1462
01:20:33,439 --> 01:20:35,760
Speaker 1: gone farther north than any other humans had ever been.

1463
01:20:37,720 --> 01:20:43,200
Speaker 1: But Greeley and his guys go up to him, right.

1464
01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:46,960
Speaker 1: So it's really a strange group of people in a

1465
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:49,800
Speaker 1: way because they Greeley had been running the signal, the

1466
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:52,800
Speaker 1: Army's signal Corps. Uh. And he so he was a

1467
01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:55,720
Speaker 1: guy who had put up telegraph lines all across the

1468
01:20:55,760 --> 01:20:59,719
Speaker 1: American southwest. But he had a fascination with um the Arctic,

1469
01:20:59,720 --> 01:21:04,520
Speaker 1: and he'd read all about um, you know, previous Arctic expeditions.

1470
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:08,720
Speaker 1: He'd read about Franklin, He'd read about um Kine and

1471
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:11,439
Speaker 1: Beaumont and these people who these Brits who had been

1472
01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:15,719
Speaker 1: up north and come back and Um survived and written

1473
01:21:16,439 --> 01:21:19,680
Speaker 1: diaries in accounts and journals. He had all those, so

1474
01:21:19,760 --> 01:21:23,439
Speaker 1: he ends up going up to the UM. He was

1475
01:21:23,479 --> 01:21:26,000
Speaker 1: part of this thing called the International Polar Year, and

1476
01:21:26,040 --> 01:21:29,200
Speaker 1: so there was this scientific element to it. So they

1477
01:21:29,240 --> 01:21:34,040
Speaker 1: sent twenty five American soldiers from the basically from the

1478
01:21:34,080 --> 01:21:36,640
Speaker 1: Signal Corp. They were plucked out of the American Southwest.

1479
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:39,320
Speaker 1: Many of them had spent hard winners in the Southwest,

1480
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:41,439
Speaker 1: but they've never been to know. None of these men

1481
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:43,000
Speaker 1: had ever been to the Arctic. Yea, and these guys

1482
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:45,280
Speaker 1: have been like a little bit involved in the punitive

1483
01:21:45,360 --> 01:21:52,200
Speaker 1: expeditions after the Custer massacre. Yeah. In fact, Brainerd one

1484
01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:58,759
Speaker 1: of those guys had had been UM under UM Miles Nelson, Miles, Miles, Nelson,

1485
01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:01,839
Speaker 1: Nelson Miles, And so they mean they were tough, hardened

1486
01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:04,560
Speaker 1: men who were good at living in the outdoors, but

1487
01:22:04,600 --> 01:22:07,960
Speaker 1: they had no idea what they were getting into. UM.

1488
01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:11,960
Speaker 1: A couple of things separate this expedition from others like it,

1489
01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:14,160
Speaker 1: and one is that they so they were part of this.

1490
01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:16,479
Speaker 1: There was a three pronged reason that they went there.

1491
01:22:16,520 --> 01:22:21,759
Speaker 1: One was to um create the farthest north weather station

1492
01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:25,040
Speaker 1: in the world, and there were it was in concert

1493
01:22:25,120 --> 01:22:29,080
Speaker 1: with like fourteen other countries. This Austrian guy created this

1494
01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:31,559
Speaker 1: thing called the first International Polar Year. So they're gonna

1495
01:22:31,560 --> 01:22:35,759
Speaker 1: go up there and build a UM basically a weather station,

1496
01:22:35,800 --> 01:22:37,920
Speaker 1: a longhouse. They they brought all the wood for it.

1497
01:22:38,240 --> 01:22:40,000
Speaker 1: And then they were also going to try to find

1498
01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:43,600
Speaker 1: um what had happened to this ship called the Jeannette,

1499
01:22:43,840 --> 01:22:48,080
Speaker 1: which Hampton Sides writes about in UM in the Kingdom

1500
01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:51,000
Speaker 1: of ice Um. So it had two years ago, two

1501
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:55,400
Speaker 1: years before the Jeannette had gone missing, never to be

1502
01:22:55,520 --> 01:22:59,800
Speaker 1: heard of. Right, So Greely is going up north to

1503
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:02,160
Speaker 1: set up a weather station, try to see if there's

1504
01:23:02,160 --> 01:23:05,760
Speaker 1: anything going on with this UM Jeanette and DeLong the

1505
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:09,880
Speaker 1: captain whom he knew, and then to try to break

1506
01:23:09,880 --> 01:23:13,120
Speaker 1: the record to farthest north. That was like his secret goal.

1507
01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:15,160
Speaker 1: He didn't really talk about it much, but in his

1508
01:23:15,240 --> 01:23:18,120
Speaker 1: diaries he does. Yeah, And they basically like going out

1509
01:23:18,120 --> 01:23:19,880
Speaker 1: of New York and take a left right, I mean,

1510
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:22,479
Speaker 1: then you wind up up between Ellesmere Island and Green

1511
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:25,400
Speaker 1: and uh, yeah, the top of the top of Greenland.

1512
01:23:25,439 --> 01:23:28,920
Speaker 1: So it's incredible if you know, the journey up there

1513
01:23:29,400 --> 01:23:33,639
Speaker 1: um is harrowing it. You know what ends up happening

1514
01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:36,240
Speaker 1: is they set up a long house sixty five ft

1515
01:23:36,280 --> 01:23:40,240
Speaker 1: long house. We don't explain something because this is like

1516
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:42,720
Speaker 1: part of like how everything goes bad. I think it's

1517
01:23:42,720 --> 01:23:47,080
Speaker 1: important to point out. They get dropped off, right, and

1518
01:23:47,120 --> 01:23:51,160
Speaker 1: it's an unseasonably warm summer, and they sail up and

1519
01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:53,120
Speaker 1: drop him off way the hell up and they're like, hey,

1520
01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:55,439
Speaker 1: we'll come back next summer. Right, Well, the plant is

1521
01:23:55,479 --> 01:23:57,799
Speaker 1: so they get dropped off with all his freaking lumber

1522
01:23:57,920 --> 01:24:00,799
Speaker 1: and thousands and thousands and thousands of hounds of food,

1523
01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:03,000
Speaker 1: and they're they're taken up in a in a steamship

1524
01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:05,880
Speaker 1: called the Proteus, right, and so then they're dropped off

1525
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:08,559
Speaker 1: and the plan is, Okay, we'll come, we'll resupply you

1526
01:24:08,600 --> 01:24:11,360
Speaker 1: next summer. Uh. And if we don't come back next summer,

1527
01:24:11,439 --> 01:24:14,479
Speaker 1: we'll we'll definitely come the next summer after that, we promised.

1528
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:17,880
Speaker 1: But what's so weird is that, like you're right, So

1529
01:24:18,479 --> 01:24:21,320
Speaker 1: it's like the warmest, the clear, the clearest, there's all

1530
01:24:21,360 --> 01:24:23,479
Speaker 1: this channel that goes up through you know, it goes

1531
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:26,439
Speaker 1: through the Lincoln Uh pardon me. It goes through like

1532
01:24:26,479 --> 01:24:29,519
Speaker 1: the Smith Sound, the Cane basin the Lincolns or the

1533
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:32,360
Speaker 1: lincolnsy is above Melville Melville Bay and you get up

1534
01:24:32,360 --> 01:24:34,160
Speaker 1: and where it narrows in the Smith Sound and then

1535
01:24:34,160 --> 01:24:35,840
Speaker 1: it opens up into the Kennedy Channel, and they're in

1536
01:24:35,840 --> 01:24:41,880
Speaker 1: this little um spit, this little inlet called Lady Franklin Bay.

1537
01:24:42,040 --> 01:24:45,599
Speaker 1: And right, so the plan is that they're gonna build

1538
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:48,200
Speaker 1: this longhouse, do a bunch of science, take you know,

1539
01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:52,439
Speaker 1: hundreds of readings a day, umat seals and seals and

1540
01:24:52,479 --> 01:24:56,439
Speaker 1: bears and uh and musk oxen and very good musk

1541
01:24:56,479 --> 01:24:59,160
Speaker 1: oxen hunting up there by the way. Then um, they

1542
01:24:59,240 --> 01:25:03,120
Speaker 1: do pretty well. Yeah, yeah. And then well, let's see

1543
01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:05,680
Speaker 1: when the weather is good, because it's gonna be dark

1544
01:25:05,720 --> 01:25:08,360
Speaker 1: for like a hundred and thirty consecutive days. When the

1545
01:25:08,360 --> 01:25:10,840
Speaker 1: weather gets better, we'll go and try to break the

1546
01:25:10,880 --> 01:25:12,400
Speaker 1: record of farther north, or even go to the North

1547
01:25:12,439 --> 01:25:16,400
Speaker 1: Pole if we can pull that off. Um, and surely

1548
01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:20,519
Speaker 1: they'll come and re supply us. And you know that's

1549
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:23,080
Speaker 1: when what I love about this story is that there's

1550
01:25:23,120 --> 01:25:27,560
Speaker 1: this incredible dichotomy between the you know, the first to

1551
01:25:28,160 --> 01:25:31,680
Speaker 1: like they spend Thanksgiving and Christmas right and it's you know,

1552
01:25:31,880 --> 01:25:35,080
Speaker 1: they've got the Aurora Aurora borealis is going on. It's

1553
01:25:35,120 --> 01:25:37,880
Speaker 1: just like fireworks every night right and there. They've got

1554
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:43,160
Speaker 1: tons and tons of food and Christmas parties, elaborate meals,

1555
01:25:43,200 --> 01:25:46,160
Speaker 1: are doing shooting competitions out on the ice. They're smoking cigars,

1556
01:25:46,160 --> 01:25:48,640
Speaker 1: they're just living large. Man. They're eating a lobster. They

1557
01:25:48,680 --> 01:25:52,800
Speaker 1: brought all the ship right and um, and you realize, like,

1558
01:25:54,400 --> 01:25:57,960
Speaker 1: so then everything looks good. You know, they're they're going

1559
01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:01,720
Speaker 1: on expeditions normal the out farther farther north, the back

1560
01:26:01,800 --> 01:26:04,280
Speaker 1: that sucker, they got fartherest west. And then he sends

1561
01:26:04,320 --> 01:26:05,800
Speaker 1: a couple of guys and they go way west and

1562
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:09,880
Speaker 1: Ellesmere Island and to make some discoveries. They're waving the flag.

1563
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:12,880
Speaker 1: They're like, you know what, we're crushing this. And then

1564
01:26:14,320 --> 01:26:19,720
Speaker 1: the ice starts to form in the Kennedy Channel right

1565
01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:22,040
Speaker 1: in there. And I love the fact that they spend

1566
01:26:22,120 --> 01:26:24,559
Speaker 1: a great deal of time like looking out at the ice,

1567
01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:27,800
Speaker 1: because every day they send someone to climb the hill

1568
01:26:27,840 --> 01:26:29,720
Speaker 1: to look for the boat. Climb up there and it's like,

1569
01:26:29,960 --> 01:26:31,920
Speaker 1: is the boat coming you know, and then they so

1570
01:26:32,040 --> 01:26:35,960
Speaker 1: the boat doesn't come the first summer, and then they're like,

1571
01:26:36,439 --> 01:26:39,000
Speaker 1: well that's you know, we got a ship done. It

1572
01:26:39,040 --> 01:26:40,840
Speaker 1: will make it even better when it comes next time.

1573
01:26:41,479 --> 01:26:44,920
Speaker 1: Really psyched and write letters home, honey. But you know,

1574
01:26:45,080 --> 01:26:47,400
Speaker 1: then it starts to get kind of grim. And Greeley,

1575
01:26:47,439 --> 01:26:49,559
Speaker 1: of course, what I love about him is he's not idle.

1576
01:26:49,640 --> 01:26:52,240
Speaker 1: So he's like, okay, well let's keep foraying and let's

1577
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:54,760
Speaker 1: try to even go farther north. And he sends, you know,

1578
01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:59,960
Speaker 1: he's got these two green Landic um their drivers interesting man,

1579
01:27:00,120 --> 01:27:04,080
Speaker 1: green Landic eskimos, right, so they Eskimo Fred and u

1580
01:27:04,680 --> 01:27:07,800
Speaker 1: Yen's Christiansen. They're really cool and they these guys, those

1581
01:27:07,800 --> 01:27:11,320
Speaker 1: guys tear it up. Oh my god, they're badass. Yeah yeah,

1582
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:13,720
Speaker 1: and so what you know, they when they had gone up,

1583
01:27:13,760 --> 01:27:16,880
Speaker 1: they picked up. Um. Greeley knew that they needed um

1584
01:27:17,040 --> 01:27:21,200
Speaker 1: dogs and green Landic drivers who could handle them. And

1585
01:27:21,560 --> 01:27:24,760
Speaker 1: so he he negotiates to pay these guys and he

1586
01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:28,680
Speaker 1: enlist them into the army and uh, and then so

1587
01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:31,479
Speaker 1: they go on. They're they're waiting for those want to

1588
01:27:31,479 --> 01:27:33,840
Speaker 1: be kind of like heroes. Oh my god, So I mean,

1589
01:27:33,880 --> 01:27:36,320
Speaker 1: I you know, I get sad for Eskimo Fred when

1590
01:27:36,360 --> 01:27:38,880
Speaker 1: I think about him, UM. I don't want to really

1591
01:27:38,880 --> 01:27:43,160
Speaker 1: sort of spoiler, you know, well UM, so ask about

1592
01:27:43,160 --> 01:27:45,559
Speaker 1: Fred and Yen's Christiansen are also are there. They're not

1593
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:49,320
Speaker 1: only good dog drivers, they're good shots and they're really

1594
01:27:49,360 --> 01:27:52,360
Speaker 1: good in kayaks. Right, so you know the green Landic

1595
01:27:52,479 --> 01:27:55,680
Speaker 1: people's the Inuit and the Etad. These guys are from,

1596
01:27:55,720 --> 01:27:59,639
Speaker 1: like they're called eta um like a blue wood these

1597
01:27:59,720 --> 01:28:04,240
Speaker 1: in the days, like a blue eyed eskimo or something

1598
01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:05,519
Speaker 1: like that in the old days. I'm not going to

1599
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:09,439
Speaker 1: say that, I'm saying in those days. I mean yeah,

1600
01:28:09,479 --> 01:28:11,840
Speaker 1: because I mean, you know, when you think about UM

1601
01:28:12,240 --> 01:28:18,840
Speaker 1: interaction with UM, you know Europeans um, you know. But no,

1602
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:21,640
Speaker 1: I haven't heard the expression actually because I thought Stephenson,

1603
01:28:22,840 --> 01:28:26,240
Speaker 1: you know, the Arctic, but I thought he was always

1604
01:28:26,240 --> 01:28:28,880
Speaker 1: trying to and I think that we'll say that for

1605
01:28:29,560 --> 01:28:34,320
Speaker 1: ext bring them next, UM. But so you know, they've

1606
01:28:34,360 --> 01:28:37,920
Speaker 1: got they've got these green land um sled dog drivers

1607
01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:42,320
Speaker 1: and you know, really keeps sending out forays. That's part

1608
01:28:42,320 --> 01:28:44,559
Speaker 1: of the story that I really loved is how you

1609
01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:47,240
Speaker 1: know they go on these expeditions and they're they're burly man.

1610
01:28:47,320 --> 01:28:51,400
Speaker 1: They're like going out for sixty days in you know,

1611
01:28:51,600 --> 01:28:56,360
Speaker 1: minus average minus fifty degree temperatures UM carrying, and they

1612
01:28:56,600 --> 01:29:01,600
Speaker 1: have got these elaborate sort of UM stoves burn um,

1613
01:29:01,640 --> 01:29:04,680
Speaker 1: you know, these fuels that they're able to, like in

1614
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:07,439
Speaker 1: severe winds, they're able to like strike a fire in

1615
01:29:07,479 --> 01:29:11,400
Speaker 1: these like funnel stoves and then you know, heat up

1616
01:29:11,439 --> 01:29:14,400
Speaker 1: like frozen stew meat that they've got brought along and

1617
01:29:15,720 --> 01:29:20,040
Speaker 1: fuels and souls and ship and so then they will

1618
01:29:20,080 --> 01:29:22,679
Speaker 1: be like go out, you know and come back maybe

1619
01:29:22,840 --> 01:29:28,200
Speaker 1: two months later. Right, So me two guys, Brainerd and Lockwood.

1620
01:29:28,320 --> 01:29:31,160
Speaker 1: These are two of the main expedition are guys. And

1621
01:29:31,200 --> 01:29:34,720
Speaker 1: then and then Eskim my friend and YenS. YenS are

1622
01:29:34,800 --> 01:29:40,160
Speaker 1: Gen's you tell me ends Christian funels. But so you know,

1623
01:29:40,600 --> 01:29:43,519
Speaker 1: this is why it's called the triumph, the triumphant and

1624
01:29:43,600 --> 01:29:47,320
Speaker 1: tragic because the first part of this UM there's a

1625
01:29:47,360 --> 01:29:50,120
Speaker 1: ton of triumph to me, you know, UM in what

1626
01:29:50,439 --> 01:29:54,560
Speaker 1: humans are able to achieve in terms of um teamwork

1627
01:29:54,640 --> 01:29:57,720
Speaker 1: and being out you know for days and days on end.

1628
01:29:57,720 --> 01:30:00,040
Speaker 1: The things that you guys do, you know, like but

1629
01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:02,160
Speaker 1: it's not even comparable. Man that he had gone for

1630
01:30:02,400 --> 01:30:06,000
Speaker 1: years pregor Tex you know, um, and they're you know

1631
01:30:06,080 --> 01:30:08,200
Speaker 1: and greely like they're actually testing out all sorts of

1632
01:30:08,240 --> 01:30:13,320
Speaker 1: because really preferred wool and oil skin to seal skin

1633
01:30:13,360 --> 01:30:16,479
Speaker 1: because he got really he tried to wear what Native

1634
01:30:16,520 --> 01:30:18,960
Speaker 1: peoples were wearing, but he found it really um clammy.

1635
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:20,800
Speaker 1: I mean they didn't he didn't breathe, so he was

1636
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:24,280
Speaker 1: using he would use thick like boiled wool and then

1637
01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:29,240
Speaker 1: oil skin kind of like drover coats that on the outside. Right. Um,

1638
01:30:29,360 --> 01:30:34,200
Speaker 1: because sleeping bags real quick, oh my sah. They had

1639
01:30:34,200 --> 01:30:37,040
Speaker 1: buffalo hide sleeping bags and dog hair sleep They would

1640
01:30:37,080 --> 01:30:41,160
Speaker 1: make sleeping bags out of dogs. And it was what's

1641
01:30:41,160 --> 01:30:42,680
Speaker 1: funny is because I know a little bit of that

1642
01:30:42,680 --> 01:30:45,840
Speaker 1: world well, and they were gone, so they went up

1643
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:48,599
Speaker 1: in eighty one. Yeah, it was interesting because the last

1644
01:30:48,920 --> 01:30:54,880
Speaker 1: sort of like the last big organized slaughter of Buffalo, yeah,

1645
01:30:55,240 --> 01:30:59,000
Speaker 1: was in Miles City named after General Miles. Was in

1646
01:30:59,080 --> 01:31:04,080
Speaker 1: Miles City in the winter. Was the last big commercial slaughter.

1647
01:31:04,680 --> 01:31:09,160
Speaker 1: And it was funny that these guys are gone and

1648
01:31:09,200 --> 01:31:11,240
Speaker 1: they got all this, They got all these coats and

1649
01:31:11,280 --> 01:31:13,720
Speaker 1: sleeping bags and stuff made out of these hides, and

1650
01:31:13,760 --> 01:31:18,080
Speaker 1: they're gone and probably unbeknown to them. The animals are

1651
01:31:18,120 --> 01:31:20,920
Speaker 1: like they're sleeping and sleeping bags made from an animal

1652
01:31:21,280 --> 01:31:28,160
Speaker 1: that is simultaneously tiptoeing precariously close to extinction. Unbelievable. And

1653
01:31:28,200 --> 01:31:31,599
Speaker 1: the president dies, right, Oh my god, So that's what. Yeah,

1654
01:31:31,600 --> 01:31:34,120
Speaker 1: there's a lot going on. I love that, that idea

1655
01:31:34,200 --> 01:31:37,080
Speaker 1: that they have no idea that you know, while we're

1656
01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:42,000
Speaker 1: out here. Um, the communication was so you know, there's nothing.

1657
01:31:42,000 --> 01:31:45,240
Speaker 1: They build cairns and and uh leave notes and huge

1658
01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:48,120
Speaker 1: rock carrens. But yeah, so the sleeping bags were awesome

1659
01:31:48,160 --> 01:31:51,479
Speaker 1: because these guys they wo have three man sleeping bags.

1660
01:31:51,479 --> 01:31:54,839
Speaker 1: So they it was so cold that if you weren't

1661
01:31:55,160 --> 01:31:57,920
Speaker 1: like nut to butt with your bro, you're probably going

1662
01:31:57,960 --> 01:32:00,799
Speaker 1: to freeze to death. So they have three man buffalo

1663
01:32:00,840 --> 01:32:04,440
Speaker 1: hide sleeping bags and they all climb in and just snuggle,

1664
01:32:04,640 --> 01:32:08,120
Speaker 1: you know at night for months on end, you know, um,

1665
01:32:08,360 --> 01:32:11,320
Speaker 1: and then get out of them and you know, like

1666
01:32:11,560 --> 01:32:16,040
Speaker 1: go on track for twenty miles over the ice broken ground.

1667
01:32:16,160 --> 01:32:18,200
Speaker 1: I mean you know it's not flat there either. I

1668
01:32:18,240 --> 01:32:20,240
Speaker 1: mean it's very there's mountains around there that are up

1669
01:32:20,240 --> 01:32:23,640
Speaker 1: to four thousand, five thousand ft four thousand feet. So

1670
01:32:23,720 --> 01:32:28,760
Speaker 1: these guys are just like, you know, moving along It's

1671
01:32:28,800 --> 01:32:33,800
Speaker 1: incredible the kind of um deprivation they could endure. How

1672
01:32:33,840 --> 01:32:38,320
Speaker 1: are they carrying that gear? Sucking heavy? And so they

1673
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:42,360
Speaker 1: have they have like these really cool sledges. We haven't

1674
01:32:42,439 --> 01:32:45,320
Speaker 1: established why they need to split. Oh, so talk about

1675
01:32:45,360 --> 01:32:47,599
Speaker 1: why they need to split, and then how they move

1676
01:32:48,479 --> 01:32:50,720
Speaker 1: so far they haven't moved. Oh oh yeah, but I'm

1677
01:32:50,720 --> 01:32:53,679
Speaker 1: talking so well Greeley. But before the okay, so let's

1678
01:32:53,720 --> 01:32:57,240
Speaker 1: just back it up for a second. So first winter, Uh,

1679
01:32:57,520 --> 01:33:00,639
Speaker 1: they have a great time party, Uh, go farthest north

1680
01:33:00,680 --> 01:33:05,439
Speaker 1: everything school. Uh. Then the summer, your rescue or resupply

1681
01:33:05,520 --> 01:33:10,519
Speaker 1: doesn't happen. Greeley still keeps sending out, um, you know,

1682
01:33:10,600 --> 01:33:14,320
Speaker 1: forays to try to go. They'll discover new lands in Greenland,

1683
01:33:14,320 --> 01:33:16,679
Speaker 1: which he does. And they're going off at this point

1684
01:33:16,760 --> 01:33:19,879
Speaker 1: on these sledges with like two men driving the sledge

1685
01:33:20,400 --> 01:33:22,160
Speaker 1: or one man driving the sledge, and then they're carrying

1686
01:33:22,200 --> 01:33:24,000
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of their gear on these sledges and

1687
01:33:24,040 --> 01:33:26,600
Speaker 1: the dogs are hauling it. But there's a lot of

1688
01:33:26,640 --> 01:33:28,719
Speaker 1: time in the drag ropes too, because they get stuck

1689
01:33:28,760 --> 01:33:31,960
Speaker 1: and the ice is breakable, and a lot of piggybacking. Yeah,

1690
01:33:31,960 --> 01:33:34,519
Speaker 1: I mean they do a lot like humping. We're going

1691
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:38,320
Speaker 1: on a long trip. Drag a bunch of ship unloaded,

1692
01:33:39,160 --> 01:33:41,680
Speaker 1: dragged the sledge back, put a bunch more ship on it,

1693
01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:46,040
Speaker 1: drag it up to their unloaded go back sleep, moving

1694
01:33:46,000 --> 01:33:48,160
Speaker 1: another mile, Go back at the ship and move it

1695
01:33:48,600 --> 01:33:55,120
Speaker 1: brural doubling back man. And so after the uh second so,

1696
01:33:55,200 --> 01:33:59,080
Speaker 1: Greeley had made a determination that if by the second

1697
01:33:59,120 --> 01:34:03,200
Speaker 1: summer the resupply did not come, there was a contingency

1698
01:34:03,240 --> 01:34:07,920
Speaker 1: plan in place that was written in army military orders

1699
01:34:07,960 --> 01:34:11,759
Speaker 1: that they would retreat to this place a couple hundred

1700
01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:15,160
Speaker 1: miles south called Cape Sabine on the Ellesmere Island side,

1701
01:34:15,840 --> 01:34:19,519
Speaker 1: and the ships that were to have resupplied them if

1702
01:34:19,560 --> 01:34:23,920
Speaker 1: they couldn't make it there were bound by written order

1703
01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:27,960
Speaker 1: to drop off supplies there so that if Greeley and

1704
01:34:28,000 --> 01:34:32,960
Speaker 1: his men could arrive there and survive. So there's a

1705
01:34:33,040 --> 01:34:36,880
Speaker 1: lot of controversy over Greeley's decision to leave the Fort

1706
01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:40,160
Speaker 1: Conger Longhouse, because they had they had another year's supply

1707
01:34:40,200 --> 01:34:43,160
Speaker 1: of food, and they had shelter, and there was game.

1708
01:34:43,720 --> 01:34:47,439
Speaker 1: But Greeley was a deeply devoted military man, and an

1709
01:34:47,520 --> 01:34:49,640
Speaker 1: order was an order, and you know he was going

1710
01:34:49,680 --> 01:34:52,479
Speaker 1: to leave, and he sets that date. I think it's

1711
01:34:52,479 --> 01:34:58,519
Speaker 1: August eight U and it says we're going right. So

1712
01:34:58,600 --> 01:35:02,960
Speaker 1: they they hammer Fort Conger's shut, dump a bunch of

1713
01:35:02,960 --> 01:35:08,160
Speaker 1: the um, you know, food and um for the dogs,

1714
01:35:08,240 --> 01:35:10,040
Speaker 1: leave all the ship for the dogs. Oh that's kind

1715
01:35:10,040 --> 01:35:12,320
Speaker 1: of sad too, Like they leave all these damn dogs

1716
01:35:13,000 --> 01:35:16,840
Speaker 1: and they take off in boats. Donald lead and one

1717
01:35:16,840 --> 01:35:19,160
Speaker 1: of the dogs swims out after him, and they keep

1718
01:35:19,200 --> 01:35:22,080
Speaker 1: thinking he'll turn around, he'll turn around, and there's a hair,

1719
01:35:22,160 --> 01:35:25,479
Speaker 1: there's a haunting line, we say, like eventually his head

1720
01:35:25,520 --> 01:35:29,519
Speaker 1: goes underwater like a seal. Right, and Schneider, one of

1721
01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:31,320
Speaker 1: the guys who's been taking care of the dogs, just

1722
01:35:31,520 --> 01:35:34,160
Speaker 1: uh like is staring at this dog and then he

1723
01:35:34,280 --> 01:35:38,519
Speaker 1: just turns away and he's gone. Um. But so that

1724
01:35:38,720 --> 01:35:42,519
Speaker 1: the decide, the decision to retreat is I want I

1725
01:35:42,520 --> 01:35:45,040
Speaker 1: had to start thing in there. Yeah, that you spent

1726
01:35:45,080 --> 01:35:47,120
Speaker 1: a lot of detailed a lot of time on is

1727
01:35:47,439 --> 01:35:52,000
Speaker 1: the blunders and mishaps that plague the resupply ships. Like

1728
01:35:52,320 --> 01:35:54,840
Speaker 1: one of the resupply ships just simply gets stuck in

1729
01:35:54,880 --> 01:35:57,880
Speaker 1: the ice and the boat gets crushed and then there

1730
01:35:58,160 --> 01:36:01,120
Speaker 1: sinks and there's all this off and then those guys

1731
01:36:01,200 --> 01:36:05,920
Speaker 1: have this like harrowing like riding on ice floes and

1732
01:36:06,000 --> 01:36:08,479
Speaker 1: this harrowing journey, and somehow they don't all wind up

1733
01:36:08,520 --> 01:36:12,320
Speaker 1: dead right the rescue. So, yeah, the Neptune, like the

1734
01:36:12,320 --> 01:36:14,320
Speaker 1: first ship, they're supposed to come get them. What's kind

1735
01:36:14,360 --> 01:36:16,240
Speaker 1: of fun in the in the writing of the story

1736
01:36:16,320 --> 01:36:18,800
Speaker 1: is that so I was able to cut back and

1737
01:36:18,880 --> 01:36:22,559
Speaker 1: forth between what's happening with Greeley and as they begin

1738
01:36:22,680 --> 01:36:27,200
Speaker 1: to retreat, and just even before, while they're out watching

1739
01:36:27,400 --> 01:36:29,360
Speaker 1: to see if the ship's gonna come, I'm I cut

1740
01:36:29,400 --> 01:36:32,439
Speaker 1: to what the ships are actually doing, which is getting

1741
01:36:32,479 --> 01:36:34,599
Speaker 1: stuck in the ice on the way up. And so

1742
01:36:34,680 --> 01:36:36,880
Speaker 1: they are all sorts of blenders where people don't do

1743
01:36:37,000 --> 01:36:38,920
Speaker 1: what they were supposed to that they don't leave, they

1744
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:42,599
Speaker 1: don't leave the food, and then you know, the ship

1745
01:36:42,640 --> 01:36:45,479
Speaker 1: gets crushed, and so like you said, then these guys

1746
01:36:45,640 --> 01:36:47,920
Speaker 1: are all like clambering around the ice and they have

1747
01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:50,880
Speaker 1: to get like, you know, rescued by there's a lot

1748
01:36:50,920 --> 01:36:53,200
Speaker 1: of whaling ships in the area at that time, and

1749
01:36:53,240 --> 01:36:56,519
Speaker 1: so you know, they get rescued and one of them

1750
01:36:56,560 --> 01:36:58,479
Speaker 1: just turns around and bags it and goes back because

1751
01:36:58,479 --> 01:37:00,680
Speaker 1: it can't make it through the ice, and then the

1752
01:37:00,680 --> 01:37:04,320
Speaker 1: Proteus ends up with That's that's like a huge debacle

1753
01:37:04,439 --> 01:37:09,960
Speaker 1: where um, you've got two emergencies going on simultaneously. You know,

1754
01:37:10,040 --> 01:37:12,719
Speaker 1: Greeley and his men are fighting for their lives trying

1755
01:37:12,760 --> 01:37:15,920
Speaker 1: to get to Cape Sabine, and the men on the

1756
01:37:15,960 --> 01:37:20,200
Speaker 1: Proteus are the proteus gets crushed in the ice and

1757
01:37:20,320 --> 01:37:23,320
Speaker 1: sinks right before their eyes. Is they're standing there on

1758
01:37:23,520 --> 01:37:27,599
Speaker 1: ice watching it go, watching its masts just plummet into

1759
01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:30,719
Speaker 1: all the food, with all the freaking food. It's so brutal.

1760
01:37:30,800 --> 01:37:32,479
Speaker 1: And then you you know, you you're like, okay, well,

1761
01:37:32,520 --> 01:37:34,360
Speaker 1: so what's gonna happen to them? And then then these

1762
01:37:34,400 --> 01:37:38,760
Speaker 1: guys on the Proteus are in a um race for

1763
01:37:38,840 --> 01:37:41,640
Speaker 1: survival themselves. You know, they're in little whale boats that

1764
01:37:41,680 --> 01:37:44,439
Speaker 1: are you know, ore boats, and they're trying to trying

1765
01:37:44,439 --> 01:37:46,639
Speaker 1: to figure out how to get out of there, while

1766
01:37:46,680 --> 01:37:50,759
Speaker 1: Greeley's moving down through these heinous like you you mentioned

1767
01:37:50,840 --> 01:37:55,040
Speaker 1: leads there the the like the pathways of water through

1768
01:37:55,400 --> 01:37:59,559
Speaker 1: giant icebergs and huge ice flows, and he's on you know,

1769
01:37:59,600 --> 01:38:04,200
Speaker 1: they've got uh twenty eight ft steamship steam launch. It's

1770
01:38:04,200 --> 01:38:07,479
Speaker 1: called um dubbed the lady Greeley and you know, it's

1771
01:38:07,600 --> 01:38:11,080
Speaker 1: like a ten pound vessel. And then they've got like

1772
01:38:11,120 --> 01:38:14,920
Speaker 1: a small flotilla of ore boats. Um, and so all

1773
01:38:14,960 --> 01:38:18,200
Speaker 1: their crap is in these boats and they're they're like

1774
01:38:18,920 --> 01:38:21,680
Speaker 1: tethered together at first, and they're trying to make it

1775
01:38:21,760 --> 01:38:24,880
Speaker 1: south through gy Have you ever been into the up

1776
01:38:24,920 --> 01:38:27,200
Speaker 1: in the Arctic? No, not like what you're talking about.

1777
01:38:27,240 --> 01:38:29,280
Speaker 1: I mean I was in Greenland and and did some

1778
01:38:29,680 --> 01:38:34,599
Speaker 1: kayaking around and it's I mean, it's terrifying. Right. Um,

1779
01:38:34,760 --> 01:38:38,640
Speaker 1: We're we're in Greenland and this Uh. I got in

1780
01:38:38,680 --> 01:38:40,759
Speaker 1: this boat and the guy is gonna go shoot some seals,

1781
01:38:40,800 --> 01:38:43,639
Speaker 1: and I said, um, I noticed there's no life jackets

1782
01:38:43,640 --> 01:38:45,680
Speaker 1: on the boat. And I'm like, we're about to go

1783
01:38:45,760 --> 01:38:48,960
Speaker 1: through these massive icebergs and it's you know, they're they're

1784
01:38:49,000 --> 01:38:53,799
Speaker 1: hauntingly beautiful and they look like like dinosaur like Stegasaurus backs,

1785
01:38:53,840 --> 01:38:56,040
Speaker 1: you know. And I'm like, hey, why aren't there in

1786
01:38:56,080 --> 01:38:58,479
Speaker 1: this green Land at seal hunter? Guy? I'm like, why

1787
01:38:58,479 --> 01:39:00,720
Speaker 1: aren't there any life I gets on the boat and

1788
01:39:00,760 --> 01:39:03,200
Speaker 1: he goes, if we fall in, we don't want it

1789
01:39:03,240 --> 01:39:07,240
Speaker 1: to take that long to die. I'm like, I get it, man,

1790
01:39:07,520 --> 01:39:10,639
Speaker 1: I mean because you're not. Unless you had a dry suit,

1791
01:39:11,439 --> 01:39:14,799
Speaker 1: you're it's gonna be maybe you're gone. Right. So anyways,

1792
01:39:14,880 --> 01:39:16,280
Speaker 1: had a guy in the I had a guy in

1793
01:39:16,320 --> 01:39:19,160
Speaker 1: the coast Guard in southeast Alaska talk about just how

1794
01:39:19,200 --> 01:39:24,519
Speaker 1: sick you got of the accidents. Oh my god, He's like,

1795
01:39:24,560 --> 01:39:28,400
Speaker 1: you know what. Then I had a couple they're both sinks.

1796
01:39:28,640 --> 01:39:31,120
Speaker 1: They make it to shore, we find them dead on

1797
01:39:31,160 --> 01:39:34,680
Speaker 1: the beach spring frozen to death. Yeah, I mean, and

1798
01:39:34,720 --> 01:39:38,000
Speaker 1: so what's once they set Once they Greely and his

1799
01:39:38,160 --> 01:39:41,040
Speaker 1: men set out in these craft to move south, things

1800
01:39:41,120 --> 01:39:45,200
Speaker 1: get really really gnarly because first of all, they're not

1801
01:39:45,479 --> 01:39:48,479
Speaker 1: nautical men, their army men. They weren't meant to do this.

1802
01:39:48,520 --> 01:39:50,479
Speaker 1: They weren't supposed to. It wasn't really in the plan.

1803
01:39:50,600 --> 01:39:53,160
Speaker 1: I mean they I guess they thought they could go

1804
01:39:53,240 --> 01:39:57,160
Speaker 1: overland potentially, but that's not viable. So they're moving through

1805
01:39:57,200 --> 01:40:01,000
Speaker 1: these leads and they're constantly having to take all their crap,

1806
01:40:01,160 --> 01:40:04,800
Speaker 1: like as as icebergs and these things called flows. There's

1807
01:40:04,880 --> 01:40:09,559
Speaker 1: all you know. They're flatter like big, big like rafts

1808
01:40:09,560 --> 01:40:12,679
Speaker 1: of ice. Some of them are miles long. They spend

1809
01:40:12,680 --> 01:40:15,439
Speaker 1: one day looking at at a iceberg go by or

1810
01:40:15,680 --> 01:40:19,200
Speaker 1: a flow and it's like fifteen miles long. It takes

1811
01:40:19,280 --> 01:40:22,519
Speaker 1: nine hours to pass them. Crypto Paleolithic, I mean, there's

1812
01:40:22,560 --> 01:40:25,040
Speaker 1: all sorts of you get into the all sorts of

1813
01:40:25,160 --> 01:40:27,400
Speaker 1: names for the icebergs. I have a footnote on there.

1814
01:40:27,439 --> 01:40:30,080
Speaker 1: It was icebergs there six high, yeah, and then it's

1815
01:40:30,160 --> 01:40:32,360
Speaker 1: much more of it below and then old ice yeah.

1816
01:40:32,400 --> 01:40:35,120
Speaker 1: And then like ice ale, the boat will get pinched

1817
01:40:35,120 --> 01:40:37,320
Speaker 1: between two pieces of ice and it pops that boat

1818
01:40:37,360 --> 01:40:39,840
Speaker 1: like a pimple, just shoots it up out and then

1819
01:40:39,840 --> 01:40:41,840
Speaker 1: the boash is on the ice and everybody camps on

1820
01:40:41,840 --> 01:40:43,760
Speaker 1: the ice for days and a new crack forms. They

1821
01:40:43,760 --> 01:40:46,120
Speaker 1: shoved their boat back into the crack. It's so brutal.

1822
01:40:46,160 --> 01:40:49,040
Speaker 1: And so they're constantly like going on and off of

1823
01:40:49,040 --> 01:40:53,439
Speaker 1: these icebergs and trying to avoid being crushed to death

1824
01:40:53,640 --> 01:40:57,400
Speaker 1: by them. And you know, at one point, one of

1825
01:40:57,400 --> 01:40:59,680
Speaker 1: the most harrowing, harrowing parts of the story is when

1826
01:40:59,720 --> 01:41:03,240
Speaker 1: they they get at a certain point they are on

1827
01:41:03,280 --> 01:41:06,320
Speaker 1: an iceberg and it gets um cleaved in half by

1828
01:41:06,360 --> 01:41:10,360
Speaker 1: another iceberg that's coming from the north and it hammers them.

1829
01:41:10,439 --> 01:41:14,879
Speaker 1: And then they're they're on this berg for like weeks

1830
01:41:15,479 --> 01:41:18,720
Speaker 1: weeks and they're just floating along, just helplessly in the

1831
01:41:18,760 --> 01:41:22,519
Speaker 1: middle of this body of water, being buffeted and hammered.

1832
01:41:22,680 --> 01:41:24,840
Speaker 1: And they're like in their exposed I mean they can

1833
01:41:24,880 --> 01:41:28,120
Speaker 1: sleep sometimes some of them. They have a big tepee um.

1834
01:41:28,200 --> 01:41:30,479
Speaker 1: And then they also have tarps that go over the

1835
01:41:30,520 --> 01:41:34,080
Speaker 1: boats that they're yarding up onto the iceberg every day.

1836
01:41:34,120 --> 01:41:36,479
Speaker 1: But the the exhaustion when you think about of like

1837
01:41:37,000 --> 01:41:41,280
Speaker 1: of taking all this equipment and getting it up onto

1838
01:41:41,280 --> 01:41:44,439
Speaker 1: a an iceberg, maybe tethering the lady Greeley to the

1839
01:41:44,479 --> 01:41:48,439
Speaker 1: side with these ice anchors, and then hours later you're

1840
01:41:48,439 --> 01:41:50,559
Speaker 1: getting hammered and you have to You're gonna get crushed,

1841
01:41:50,560 --> 01:41:52,200
Speaker 1: so you have to put all that crapt back in

1842
01:41:52,240 --> 01:41:55,360
Speaker 1: the water. I Meanwhile, you're looking at your food stores.

1843
01:41:55,520 --> 01:41:58,360
Speaker 1: And Greeley was you know, he had men that were

1844
01:41:58,840 --> 01:42:02,920
Speaker 1: their job was to exactly how many actually weighing it

1845
01:42:02,920 --> 01:42:05,120
Speaker 1: out with a scale, right, and you're going and he's going,

1846
01:42:05,200 --> 01:42:10,040
Speaker 1: we have, you know, forty days rations left, and by

1847
01:42:10,080 --> 01:42:13,320
Speaker 1: about October, it's going to be dark for the next

1848
01:42:13,400 --> 01:42:16,439
Speaker 1: four months. And they had all these like they had

1849
01:42:16,439 --> 01:42:20,519
Speaker 1: all these assumptions about all these points and markers were like,

1850
01:42:20,520 --> 01:42:23,520
Speaker 1: oh my god, oh they'll have left ten thousand rations

1851
01:42:24,080 --> 01:42:27,160
Speaker 1: and then it gets there and there's like forty rations.

1852
01:42:27,840 --> 01:42:31,200
Speaker 1: Well they must all be the next spot. And they

1853
01:42:31,240 --> 01:42:34,479
Speaker 1: get down the next spot that there's some lemon. There's

1854
01:42:34,479 --> 01:42:38,720
Speaker 1: a lemon. Yeah, there's I mean, there's so many heartbreaking

1855
01:42:38,840 --> 01:42:41,639
Speaker 1: moments where you think, Okay, they're gonna they're gonna pull

1856
01:42:41,720 --> 01:42:45,599
Speaker 1: this off, right, you know, they by some miracle, they

1857
01:42:45,680 --> 01:42:49,240
Speaker 1: like end up landing not that far from Cape Sabine ultimately,

1858
01:42:49,520 --> 01:42:52,080
Speaker 1: or they're able to get there, you know. And then

1859
01:42:52,320 --> 01:42:54,519
Speaker 1: just like you say that, then they go to a

1860
01:42:54,600 --> 01:42:58,040
Speaker 1: cairn and it says, oh, by the way, all those

1861
01:42:58,120 --> 01:43:01,400
Speaker 1: rations that we were supposed to leave, well our ship

1862
01:43:01,479 --> 01:43:03,920
Speaker 1: sunk and we didn't leave them. And so they're like

1863
01:43:05,200 --> 01:43:08,120
Speaker 1: what you're like? And then you know, Greeley is always

1864
01:43:08,200 --> 01:43:10,880
Speaker 1: very just like what's the next thing that you have

1865
01:43:10,960 --> 01:43:14,720
Speaker 1: to do to keep this all together? You know? And

1866
01:43:14,800 --> 01:43:16,519
Speaker 1: so there's also what I love about the story is

1867
01:43:16,560 --> 01:43:19,439
Speaker 1: that they're like there's mutiny that goes on. You know,

1868
01:43:19,720 --> 01:43:22,920
Speaker 1: there's theft of food, like once they're all once they

1869
01:43:22,920 --> 01:43:24,280
Speaker 1: make it the capes of me and they've got like

1870
01:43:24,280 --> 01:43:27,280
Speaker 1: a certain amount of food and they're trying to parse

1871
01:43:27,320 --> 01:43:31,120
Speaker 1: this out like, okay, if we can survive the winner,

1872
01:43:31,160 --> 01:43:33,720
Speaker 1: it's gonna last us maybe till March, you know. And

1873
01:43:33,760 --> 01:43:36,400
Speaker 1: then they've got there like dispatch two guys to be

1874
01:43:36,400 --> 01:43:39,840
Speaker 1: out hunting seals every day. You've got ends and ask

1875
01:43:39,880 --> 01:43:41,920
Speaker 1: them about Fred out in the kayak trying to shoot

1876
01:43:41,920 --> 01:43:44,599
Speaker 1: some seals. Bears are, you know? And then there's all

1877
01:43:44,600 --> 01:43:47,200
Speaker 1: sorts of shore birds and at a certain point, I

1878
01:43:47,200 --> 01:43:49,280
Speaker 1: mean they keep stick and walrus is what they lose them.

1879
01:43:49,320 --> 01:43:51,559
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's so brutal because a walrus could

1880
01:43:51,560 --> 01:43:54,639
Speaker 1: would would be their salvation, you know. But they shoot

1881
01:43:54,680 --> 01:43:57,200
Speaker 1: the walrus and then it like slithers off of the

1882
01:43:57,240 --> 01:44:00,200
Speaker 1: iceberg and they will be like this blood slick and

1883
01:44:00,240 --> 01:44:03,080
Speaker 1: then just trying to you know. You know what I'm

1884
01:44:03,080 --> 01:44:04,599
Speaker 1: thinking that you didn't spend a lot of time on

1885
01:44:04,760 --> 01:44:06,920
Speaker 1: that really struck me is at one of the points

1886
01:44:06,920 --> 01:44:09,439
Speaker 1: on the way down, they land at a place they

1887
01:44:09,520 --> 01:44:14,200
Speaker 1: dubbed Eskimo Point because it's full of artifacts and a

1888
01:44:14,200 --> 01:44:20,880
Speaker 1: whale carcass and pieces of like equipment made from ivory

1889
01:44:21,000 --> 01:44:24,000
Speaker 1: and structures. And then you think like here's these like

1890
01:44:25,840 --> 01:44:31,880
Speaker 1: military trained individuals with firearms and modern equipment, and they're

1891
01:44:31,920 --> 01:44:35,920
Speaker 1: like quote stuck and dying and starving to death in

1892
01:44:36,000 --> 01:44:40,800
Speaker 1: a place where for three or four thousand years you

1893
01:44:40,880 --> 01:44:47,519
Speaker 1: have these marine based mammal hunters who were thriving and

1894
01:44:47,640 --> 01:44:52,000
Speaker 1: raising babies, right and and well and so you thinking

1895
01:44:52,040 --> 01:44:56,559
Speaker 1: any of the things without the weather equipment and the

1896
01:44:56,680 --> 01:45:01,000
Speaker 1: guns and the man made materials and yeah, and they

1897
01:45:01,080 --> 01:45:05,519
Speaker 1: were just like how like the dichotomy of of the

1898
01:45:05,600 --> 01:45:09,120
Speaker 1: skill sets, right, yes, you can see that these are

1899
01:45:09,120 --> 01:45:12,880
Speaker 1: like raising children there and right across the way like

1900
01:45:13,040 --> 01:45:16,120
Speaker 1: still you know, the entire villages. Um, yeah, I mean

1901
01:45:16,200 --> 01:45:20,679
Speaker 1: I think Greeley, these guys were certainly not as well

1902
01:45:20,800 --> 01:45:24,360
Speaker 1: suited to the environment as the people had had been

1903
01:45:24,360 --> 01:45:28,040
Speaker 1: their way expectations. Yeah, and you know, bringing your food

1904
01:45:28,080 --> 01:45:32,559
Speaker 1: with you versus having to to um gather or procure

1905
01:45:32,600 --> 01:45:37,640
Speaker 1: it yourself, you know. And I think given that the circumstances,

1906
01:45:37,640 --> 01:45:42,680
Speaker 1: Greeley and his men were managed very well. Uh. They

1907
01:45:42,680 --> 01:45:45,600
Speaker 1: were quite industrious. You know. They built these some of

1908
01:45:45,600 --> 01:45:48,879
Speaker 1: them scrimping nets, right, you know, and they were shooting

1909
01:45:49,479 --> 01:45:51,600
Speaker 1: lots of birds and so you know, but at a

1910
01:45:51,600 --> 01:45:53,640
Speaker 1: certain point, a lot of Arctic fox. They had a

1911
01:45:53,680 --> 01:45:55,439
Speaker 1: lot of Arctic fox, and they ate and I don't

1912
01:45:55,439 --> 01:45:56,920
Speaker 1: want to tell the story about the bear because that's

1913
01:45:56,920 --> 01:45:58,360
Speaker 1: a great story. I want you to read the story

1914
01:45:58,360 --> 01:46:01,960
Speaker 1: about the bear um. But the uh, you know, at

1915
01:46:01,960 --> 01:46:05,680
Speaker 1: a certain point, their culinary situation is down to a

1916
01:46:05,960 --> 01:46:10,719
Speaker 1: gelatinous gruel of shrimp and like the snipped off top

1917
01:46:10,760 --> 01:46:13,280
Speaker 1: of a buffalo hide leaping bag and the soles of

1918
01:46:13,320 --> 01:46:17,000
Speaker 1: your boots, you know, I mean they're seriously eating. There's

1919
01:46:17,000 --> 01:46:19,040
Speaker 1: some images in there that are just they haunt me,

1920
01:46:19,080 --> 01:46:21,320
Speaker 1: you know, like crawling around your hands and knees, plucking

1921
01:46:21,360 --> 01:46:24,240
Speaker 1: caterpillars off the ground and just plucking in your mouth.

1922
01:46:24,880 --> 01:46:31,439
Speaker 1: And also you know, eating just eating lichens and sacks

1923
01:46:31,439 --> 01:46:34,240
Speaker 1: of frage and all the plants. They're just like putting

1924
01:46:34,240 --> 01:46:36,800
Speaker 1: it in their mouths. It's so it's sort of ghoulish.

1925
01:46:36,920 --> 01:46:38,400
Speaker 1: Do you feel that it gives too much a way

1926
01:46:38,400 --> 01:46:41,000
Speaker 1: to talk about I don't want to call it rescues,

1927
01:46:41,000 --> 01:46:45,360
Speaker 1: a little dramatic to talk about. Not for the film version, no,

1928
01:46:45,439 --> 01:46:48,240
Speaker 1: not for the hand like for the well it says

1929
01:46:48,240 --> 01:46:49,880
Speaker 1: this in the back of the book. I know I

1930
01:46:49,960 --> 01:46:55,720
Speaker 1: was seven people live. Yeah yeah, so well yeah, and

1931
01:46:56,200 --> 01:46:57,720
Speaker 1: what I want to talk about, are you protable talking

1932
01:46:57,760 --> 01:47:00,720
Speaker 1: about the whether or not? Oh me, there's a great

1933
01:47:00,720 --> 01:47:03,439
Speaker 1: there's a great line. There's a great line from In

1934
01:47:03,520 --> 01:47:05,960
Speaker 1: the Heart of the Sea. I love that book. Nathaniel

1935
01:47:05,960 --> 01:47:10,599
Speaker 1: Philbrook is at his name. Where later when people realize

1936
01:47:10,600 --> 01:47:14,080
Speaker 1: that after the whaleship Essex trategy, there had tragedy, there

1937
01:47:14,080 --> 01:47:17,760
Speaker 1: had been some cannibalism, and someone's asked like, hey, did

1938
01:47:17,760 --> 01:47:21,439
Speaker 1: you know Fred Jones he was on Essex And he says, no, him,

1939
01:47:21,600 --> 01:47:28,880
Speaker 1: I had him. Yeah, so, uh, Greeley didn't want to

1940
01:47:28,920 --> 01:47:34,559
Speaker 1: own up to the cannibalism. Yeah. I mean so in

1941
01:47:34,640 --> 01:47:37,000
Speaker 1: the end, you don't like talking about this. Oh, I know,

1942
01:47:37,040 --> 01:47:38,640
Speaker 1: I really want to talk about this. I mean it

1943
01:47:38,720 --> 01:47:42,400
Speaker 1: shows meat eater right, um, meat to meat. Yeah. And

1944
01:47:42,439 --> 01:47:45,439
Speaker 1: I've eaten folk, yeah, because I had a Yeah I

1945
01:47:45,479 --> 01:47:48,760
Speaker 1: have right now, I have a cadaver. I have a

1946
01:47:48,800 --> 01:47:53,880
Speaker 1: cadaver's bone crammed up in my tooth. And yeah, a

1947
01:47:53,880 --> 01:47:56,439
Speaker 1: lot of that comes loose. I've eaten folks, and I've

1948
01:47:56,439 --> 01:47:59,720
Speaker 1: taken to nibble n in little bits. How is it.

1949
01:48:00,280 --> 01:48:03,240
Speaker 1: I don't mind it. That doesn't count. Yeah, he's not

1950
01:48:03,320 --> 01:48:06,559
Speaker 1: the same as like your friend is frozen over there. No,

1951
01:48:06,640 --> 01:48:12,240
Speaker 1: but Yanni's eating Uh, he's drank human breast milk and

1952
01:48:12,320 --> 01:48:16,240
Speaker 1: he's eating human meat because he's eating placenta. Oh oh

1953
01:48:16,280 --> 01:48:20,000
Speaker 1: you did it? You did that? Yeah kind of. I

1954
01:48:20,040 --> 01:48:22,599
Speaker 1: want to say it counts either, Really, what does it take.

1955
01:48:24,600 --> 01:48:27,559
Speaker 1: It's like throwing on the barbecue and if you eat

1956
01:48:27,640 --> 01:48:31,439
Speaker 1: it raw to make it count it raw? Well, yeah,

1957
01:48:31,560 --> 01:48:35,040
Speaker 1: no you can. We we had the placentis shipped off

1958
01:48:35,080 --> 01:48:39,080
Speaker 1: and it was dehydrated and came back and pills. Wow,

1959
01:48:39,280 --> 01:48:42,400
Speaker 1: how do you feel good? Strong? Like bull just like

1960
01:48:42,520 --> 01:48:45,840
Speaker 1: just like I take my vitamins every day. I like

1961
01:48:45,880 --> 01:48:49,439
Speaker 1: to think him as a canibal. Anyways, so you know,

1962
01:48:49,600 --> 01:48:52,320
Speaker 1: there's okay, there's no question, like get into the whole

1963
01:48:52,320 --> 01:48:57,240
Speaker 1: like like they they they exhumed bodies later and butchered. Right,

1964
01:48:57,280 --> 01:49:00,760
Speaker 1: So here's the thing you got. Why don't you You're

1965
01:49:00,800 --> 01:49:05,000
Speaker 1: not being just lay it out all right, listen, cheer

1966
01:49:05,040 --> 01:49:07,960
Speaker 1: me out. People are going to not buy your book

1967
01:49:08,720 --> 01:49:12,120
Speaker 1: because they heard about the end. No, no, the journey. Listen.

1968
01:49:12,160 --> 01:49:16,120
Speaker 1: Everybody knows that that there's cannibalistic party. Let's check this out. Hey,

1969
01:49:16,160 --> 01:49:19,559
Speaker 1: Phil are you were you like, oh, dude, I'm gonna

1970
01:49:19,560 --> 01:49:22,880
Speaker 1: buy this book. But then you're like, oh, they eat

1971
01:49:22,920 --> 01:49:26,200
Speaker 1: everybody in the end. Never mind, I'm not buying it. No, Honestly,

1972
01:49:26,240 --> 01:49:28,759
Speaker 1: as I've been listening to this conversation, I've been thinking

1973
01:49:28,800 --> 01:49:31,439
Speaker 1: about going to Karen, our producer, and saying, if she

1974
01:49:31,520 --> 01:49:33,200
Speaker 1: has a copy that I can read, he's not gonna

1975
01:49:34,240 --> 01:49:36,519
Speaker 1: he's gonna buy it, but he's gonna look, he's gonna

1976
01:49:36,520 --> 01:49:39,280
Speaker 1: go look for a free copy. I'll spread the word.

1977
01:49:40,920 --> 01:49:47,000
Speaker 1: But yeah, so La device buddy Levy, Phil is gonna

1978
01:49:47,000 --> 01:49:48,720
Speaker 1: go see if he can't get himself a free one.

1979
01:49:49,320 --> 01:49:51,200
Speaker 1: It's it's so it's a funny thing connected to that

1980
01:49:51,280 --> 01:49:53,680
Speaker 1: in the in the research. So, um, I have a

1981
01:49:53,680 --> 01:49:55,720
Speaker 1: first reader. He's the guy I dedicated the book to

1982
01:49:55,880 --> 01:49:59,400
Speaker 1: my friend John Larkin, And uh, you know, so I

1983
01:49:59,479 --> 01:50:02,920
Speaker 1: got the sources in the original version. Now, so I

1984
01:50:02,960 --> 01:50:05,439
Speaker 1: know how all my sourcing is going. In one of

1985
01:50:05,439 --> 01:50:09,120
Speaker 1: the major books about it. It's It's title is six

1986
01:50:09,240 --> 01:50:11,720
Speaker 1: came Back. And John's reading along and like chapter three

1987
01:50:11,720 --> 01:50:14,280
Speaker 1: and he's like, huh, I wonder how this is gonna

1988
01:50:14,320 --> 01:50:19,080
Speaker 1: work out? You know it's came Back. It's like, yeah,

1989
01:50:18,320 --> 01:50:22,200
Speaker 1: that's a great point, man. Yeah, so no, I'm not worry.

1990
01:50:22,240 --> 01:50:27,080
Speaker 1: What's interesting about it was called and then they shoot

1991
01:50:27,120 --> 01:50:31,519
Speaker 1: this dog, poor old Yether would be different. Um, you

1992
01:50:31,560 --> 01:50:33,760
Speaker 1: know what I want to do? Uh we always asked

1993
01:50:33,760 --> 01:50:35,240
Speaker 1: this that I can remember. What's it called when you

1994
01:50:35,240 --> 01:50:37,320
Speaker 1: put a quote in the beginning of a book. Oh,

1995
01:50:37,360 --> 01:50:41,760
Speaker 1: the epigraphy, Graham, that's a gramatic. I'm trying to find

1996
01:50:41,800 --> 01:50:45,559
Speaker 1: this one here. It is. It's tight. It's tight by

1997
01:50:45,600 --> 01:50:50,920
Speaker 1: many paths and by many means. Mankind has endeavored to

1998
01:50:50,960 --> 01:50:57,639
Speaker 1: penetrate this kingdom of death. Free that guy, by the way,

1999
01:50:57,720 --> 01:51:03,479
Speaker 1: nonsen Uh, he broke Greeley's farthest north record thirteen years later.

2000
01:51:03,800 --> 01:51:06,040
Speaker 1: So they held it for only short time. Let's get

2001
01:51:06,040 --> 01:51:08,320
Speaker 1: back to the cannibal eating folks and get and then

2002
01:51:08,400 --> 01:51:11,040
Speaker 1: how they eventually some of them lived. Well, you don't,

2003
01:51:11,400 --> 01:51:15,920
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. Yeah, I mean, so these guys are

2004
01:51:15,920 --> 01:51:18,759
Speaker 1: in a dire situation and they begin, um, they begin

2005
01:51:18,840 --> 01:51:23,160
Speaker 1: to die of starvation, right, And so what ends up happening? Um.

2006
01:51:23,200 --> 01:51:25,479
Speaker 1: One of the most maccabb elements of it is so

2007
01:51:25,479 --> 01:51:30,679
Speaker 1: they're somebody died, the first guy dies, uh, and they

2008
01:51:30,960 --> 01:51:34,560
Speaker 1: have to get together and muster the strength to um

2009
01:51:34,880 --> 01:51:38,160
Speaker 1: like carry them up on this place they dubbed cemetery Hill.

2010
01:51:39,200 --> 01:51:44,120
Speaker 1: Cemetery Hill, we'll call it. Um, you've got another option,

2011
01:51:44,680 --> 01:51:48,320
Speaker 1: and you know, so they put they start burying these guys.

2012
01:51:48,439 --> 01:51:51,439
Speaker 1: And at first they have the strength to dig you know,

2013
01:51:51,520 --> 01:51:55,400
Speaker 1: a sort of fifteen inch deep. Great, yeah, but even

2014
01:51:55,400 --> 01:51:57,439
Speaker 1: still they're kind of covering them with snow and right,

2015
01:51:57,479 --> 01:51:59,679
Speaker 1: I mean it's like a screet it's like hard ass

2016
01:51:59,680 --> 01:52:04,280
Speaker 1: froze and screen slope. Right. And so they begin to um,

2017
01:52:04,479 --> 01:52:07,880
Speaker 1: they begin to starve, and you know, there's all sorts

2018
01:52:07,880 --> 01:52:11,960
Speaker 1: of um attempts to go get these herculean attempts to

2019
01:52:12,000 --> 01:52:15,080
Speaker 1: go get more of the English cash of food that's

2020
01:52:15,160 --> 01:52:19,080
Speaker 1: like somewhere out there that's been left by another expedition

2021
01:52:19,200 --> 01:52:22,160
Speaker 1: years before. But anyway, so as they begin to die,

2022
01:52:22,400 --> 01:52:26,080
Speaker 1: they they're like it gets harder and harder to bury them.

2023
01:52:26,640 --> 01:52:28,880
Speaker 1: And at a certain point people are you know, sort

2024
01:52:28,920 --> 01:52:32,720
Speaker 1: of just being left up on cemetery hill but like

2025
01:52:33,040 --> 01:52:35,280
Speaker 1: or frozen. They throw some of them down in this

2026
01:52:35,439 --> 01:52:37,320
Speaker 1: thing they call the title crack. So they're near the

2027
01:52:38,000 --> 01:52:42,000
Speaker 1: shore and you know what, you don't you don't hear

2028
01:52:42,040 --> 01:52:47,519
Speaker 1: about the the cannibalism until the rescue. Um. So there's

2029
01:52:47,560 --> 01:52:52,320
Speaker 1: this rather amazing um effort by the navy to go

2030
01:52:52,439 --> 01:52:56,080
Speaker 1: get them, and it's all spearheaded by Greeley's wife, Henrietta.

2031
01:52:56,160 --> 01:52:59,000
Speaker 1: And so they finally arrived there and these guys are

2032
01:52:59,160 --> 01:53:02,519
Speaker 1: into it. Well, this is the third year, so they've

2033
01:53:02,520 --> 01:53:04,080
Speaker 1: been on they've been at capes of beIN for like

2034
01:53:04,160 --> 01:53:07,599
Speaker 1: eight but there's no but you know what they find, Well,

2035
01:53:07,640 --> 01:53:13,920
Speaker 1: here's they find, like the boat that goes up, one

2036
01:53:13,920 --> 01:53:16,080
Speaker 1: of the boats that goes up that's supposed to do

2037
01:53:16,200 --> 01:53:18,720
Speaker 1: the rescue. Everything goes bad, but they wind up and

2038
01:53:18,840 --> 01:53:21,360
Speaker 1: here and there they leave some stuff. And these guys

2039
01:53:21,400 --> 01:53:26,160
Speaker 1: find some lemons that are left in a cash and

2040
01:53:26,200 --> 01:53:30,400
Speaker 1: that turns out the lemons are wrapped in newspaper, and

2041
01:53:30,439 --> 01:53:33,160
Speaker 1: they start taking these scraps and newspaper and reading them,

2042
01:53:33,160 --> 01:53:37,000
Speaker 1: and they're reading about themselves, right, and they're reading about

2043
01:53:37,040 --> 01:53:40,680
Speaker 1: that the president was shot and died that like, and

2044
01:53:40,720 --> 01:53:44,960
Speaker 1: they're starting to get like little torn torn bits of

2045
01:53:45,000 --> 01:53:48,480
Speaker 1: what's going on. One of them learns that in his absence,

2046
01:53:48,479 --> 01:53:52,559
Speaker 1: he's been promoted Lieutenant Lockwood. And so that they come

2047
01:53:52,600 --> 01:53:54,840
Speaker 1: back from these cash is right, and they I love

2048
01:53:54,880 --> 01:53:57,200
Speaker 1: that scene where they're like they'll hold them up by

2049
01:53:57,400 --> 01:54:00,400
Speaker 1: candle light. And and so the lemons, which you know,

2050
01:54:00,439 --> 01:54:03,519
Speaker 1: they've been sent along to help work scurvy. So the

2051
01:54:03,640 --> 01:54:06,479
Speaker 1: lemons are wrapped in all this paper and so they're

2052
01:54:06,600 --> 01:54:10,680
Speaker 1: they're reading them. And once once Lockwood uh learns that

2053
01:54:10,720 --> 01:54:12,479
Speaker 1: he's been promoted. I love that because he then he

2054
01:54:12,600 --> 01:54:15,320
Speaker 1: any uh you know, one of his first missions is

2055
01:54:15,360 --> 01:54:18,040
Speaker 1: to go and by this time, these guys are freaking

2056
01:54:18,240 --> 01:54:22,479
Speaker 1: scrawny and dying, you know, and so he he wants

2057
01:54:22,520 --> 01:54:27,320
Speaker 1: to go put the pendulum up, build this cairn. There's

2058
01:54:27,320 --> 01:54:30,400
Speaker 1: a spot on the coastline that Greeley says, even if

2059
01:54:30,400 --> 01:54:34,280
Speaker 1: we perish, I don't want our records to perish. Yeah,

2060
01:54:34,320 --> 01:54:39,160
Speaker 1: And so the Lockwood his first act, as uh, you know,

2061
01:54:39,360 --> 01:54:43,200
Speaker 1: of the first lieutenant, is to go place this cairn

2062
01:54:43,560 --> 01:54:46,800
Speaker 1: and this pendulum that they've brought along up on this

2063
01:54:46,880 --> 01:54:50,160
Speaker 1: promontory so that if the boats get there, they'll see

2064
01:54:50,200 --> 01:54:52,880
Speaker 1: it because they're kind of tucked away in this little cove.

2065
01:54:53,160 --> 01:54:55,080
Speaker 1: And he has a lot of their records and there,

2066
01:54:55,520 --> 01:54:57,600
Speaker 1: and they're not the negatives what do you call them? Yeah,

2067
01:54:57,600 --> 01:54:59,800
Speaker 1: he has to plate the photographic plates. Yeah, he sticks

2068
01:54:59,800 --> 01:55:01,600
Speaker 1: in because like, if we all die, there's a better

2069
01:55:01,640 --> 01:55:03,640
Speaker 1: chance they'll find it down there right and in in

2070
01:55:03,920 --> 01:55:07,600
Speaker 1: the cairn, and that pendulum end up figuring in in

2071
01:55:07,840 --> 01:55:12,040
Speaker 1: uh in the rescue. But so here's the deal. These

2072
01:55:12,040 --> 01:55:14,560
Speaker 1: guys are you know, they're doing everything they can. They're

2073
01:55:14,600 --> 01:55:18,120
Speaker 1: eating pounds and pounds of shrimp and and grubs and

2074
01:55:18,160 --> 01:55:20,920
Speaker 1: all this crap. Right, So you got guys that are

2075
01:55:21,080 --> 01:55:24,520
Speaker 1: frozen next to you. Hey man, I'm not down. I

2076
01:55:24,520 --> 01:55:26,880
Speaker 1: would have done the same thing. That's that's my question. So, like,

2077
01:55:27,240 --> 01:55:29,920
Speaker 1: I mean, would you eat do you think you'd eat?

2078
01:55:30,040 --> 01:55:33,520
Speaker 1: Would you eat another person? Before I died? Yeah, I

2079
01:55:34,080 --> 01:55:37,480
Speaker 1: was like Phil died and I'm like, well, I would

2080
01:55:37,480 --> 01:55:39,320
Speaker 1: die too, And let's say Phil, Hell, yeah, Phil, I

2081
01:55:39,360 --> 01:55:41,880
Speaker 1: would I would have I would have my dying words

2082
01:55:41,920 --> 01:55:44,240
Speaker 1: to be Phil, eat my flesh. Don't feel bad? Right?

2083
01:55:44,280 --> 01:55:48,040
Speaker 1: And so what's kind of mine too? Sort of there's

2084
01:55:48,080 --> 01:55:51,480
Speaker 1: some you know, so there's this French guy, Octave Pavy,

2085
01:55:51,600 --> 01:55:53,840
Speaker 1: right that one of the things that's sort of freaky

2086
01:55:53,880 --> 01:55:55,880
Speaker 1: about when they when they find So you got these

2087
01:55:55,880 --> 01:55:58,560
Speaker 1: guys that are flying on the ground and you know,

2088
01:55:58,680 --> 01:56:00,880
Speaker 1: sometimes pretty close to the hut they're in because they're

2089
01:56:00,880 --> 01:56:03,160
Speaker 1: they're too exhausted to carry them very far by this time,

2090
01:56:03,800 --> 01:56:05,920
Speaker 1: and you know, they're preserved and they're they're kind of fro.

2091
01:56:06,080 --> 01:56:08,000
Speaker 1: I mean, they're like they're in the freezer. You know,

2092
01:56:08,000 --> 01:56:11,600
Speaker 1: they're in cold storage. Right, So when they when the

2093
01:56:11,760 --> 01:56:17,960
Speaker 1: rescue comes. They they're very deliberate about taking each body

2094
01:56:18,160 --> 01:56:22,280
Speaker 1: and labeling it and drawing diagrams about who was where.

2095
01:56:22,320 --> 01:56:24,200
Speaker 1: And then once they get them on the ships because

2096
01:56:24,200 --> 01:56:29,280
Speaker 1: there's a military operation, they begin to um undress them

2097
01:56:29,280 --> 01:56:32,360
Speaker 1: and they're gonna kind of put them in preserving baths,

2098
01:56:32,840 --> 01:56:36,360
Speaker 1: right fluid yeah, So like um, yeah, they have these

2099
01:56:36,400 --> 01:56:38,400
Speaker 1: holds on the ship where they can you know, put

2100
01:56:38,440 --> 01:56:41,360
Speaker 1: these bodies and preserve them. And that's when they discover

2101
01:56:41,600 --> 01:56:45,360
Speaker 1: that a number of the bodies have missing a little

2102
01:56:45,400 --> 01:56:49,280
Speaker 1: meat like and some of it is so surgically sliced

2103
01:56:49,320 --> 01:56:51,960
Speaker 1: that looks like it was done by a surgeon, and

2104
01:56:52,000 --> 01:56:58,160
Speaker 1: so that suggests that that paybe um likely uh was

2105
01:56:58,360 --> 01:57:02,520
Speaker 1: one of the perpetrators because the cuts are precise, uh.

2106
01:57:02,600 --> 01:57:06,000
Speaker 1: And he's the only surgeon on the expedition, right, And

2107
01:57:06,040 --> 01:57:10,440
Speaker 1: so then there's others that are you know, slightly dismembered,

2108
01:57:10,480 --> 01:57:14,600
Speaker 1: and um, you know, Chunk's gone, right, So what ends

2109
01:57:14,640 --> 01:57:17,080
Speaker 1: up happening is that they have to you know, Greeley

2110
01:57:17,480 --> 01:57:22,600
Speaker 1: and the others make a pact that they will you know,

2111
01:57:22,680 --> 01:57:26,400
Speaker 1: Greeley and some of his men the remaining six one

2112
01:57:26,440 --> 01:57:29,000
Speaker 1: guy Ellison, dies on the um he's the guy with

2113
01:57:29,560 --> 01:57:32,440
Speaker 1: the stumps and the he's he's lost both of his

2114
01:57:32,560 --> 01:57:36,640
Speaker 1: legs and most of his hands from frostbite. And so

2115
01:57:36,840 --> 01:57:39,760
Speaker 1: he lives and makes it onto the rescue ships, but

2116
01:57:39,800 --> 01:57:43,000
Speaker 1: he dies. Um and Root. So of the six they

2117
01:57:43,040 --> 01:57:48,400
Speaker 1: make a pack that they'll they'll never tell who eight

2118
01:57:48,960 --> 01:57:54,000
Speaker 1: whom right, And you know it's one of those codes

2119
01:57:54,040 --> 01:57:58,520
Speaker 1: of honor. They're just like Greeley says, if if cannibalism occurred,

2120
01:57:59,080 --> 01:58:04,520
Speaker 1: I know nothing of it, right, Yeah, that's a cop out. Um,

2121
01:58:04,600 --> 01:58:07,240
Speaker 1: you know, I think he's protecting the memory of his man.

2122
01:58:07,320 --> 01:58:09,640
Speaker 1: He's protecting the families. I would do that, Like if

2123
01:58:09,680 --> 01:58:13,160
Speaker 1: we ate philed, would you picture on it that we

2124
01:58:13,200 --> 01:58:15,600
Speaker 1: would be like, let's not tell anyone we ate Phil.

2125
01:58:15,680 --> 01:58:19,640
Speaker 1: Or would you go back and be like, we ate Phil? Yeah?

2126
01:58:19,640 --> 01:58:24,480
Speaker 1: I probably wouldn't tell anybody who ate. It's like because

2127
01:58:24,600 --> 01:58:26,800
Speaker 1: because when you weren't around, when you weren't around, I'd

2128
01:58:26,800 --> 01:58:29,080
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, I ate him. Those kids don't want

2129
01:58:29,080 --> 01:58:31,440
Speaker 1: to know that he got eaten. Who's the guy Albert

2130
01:58:31,480 --> 01:58:35,480
Speaker 1: Packer right, Um, the guy who ate Oh yeah, blunding

2131
01:58:35,560 --> 01:58:38,480
Speaker 1: him at him. I've been to Um, I've been to

2132
01:58:38,760 --> 01:58:41,800
Speaker 1: one of the caves that packers supposedly hit out in

2133
01:58:42,360 --> 01:58:45,120
Speaker 1: Yeah it was it was it cool in Wyoming? Yeah, yeah,

2134
01:58:45,200 --> 01:58:47,480
Speaker 1: slept in there. I'm not joking. We did it freaking

2135
01:58:47,520 --> 01:58:49,400
Speaker 1: out a little bit, a little bit, you know. So

2136
01:58:49,480 --> 01:58:51,920
Speaker 1: I think the question is like, why are we still

2137
01:58:52,360 --> 01:58:56,360
Speaker 1: um what is it about cannibalism that still carries this

2138
01:58:56,600 --> 01:59:02,400
Speaker 1: um taboo stigma? Are you asking me? I'm I'm posing

2139
01:59:02,400 --> 01:59:06,000
Speaker 1: it as a as a question. I'm asking myself because

2140
01:59:06,960 --> 01:59:09,120
Speaker 1: I asked myself a number of times, like what would

2141
01:59:09,120 --> 01:59:15,720
Speaker 1: I do in the situation that these guys whatever is old, uh,

2142
01:59:15,720 --> 01:59:18,640
Speaker 1: that thing that makes us not want to eat each other? Yeah,

2143
01:59:18,680 --> 01:59:22,040
Speaker 1: I think that like the like the incests taboo, the

2144
01:59:22,160 --> 01:59:25,080
Speaker 1: cannibalism taboo. I mean, these are like things that had

2145
01:59:25,120 --> 01:59:31,200
Speaker 1: to have occurred and been pretty forceful at a very

2146
01:59:31,240 --> 01:59:34,040
Speaker 1: early time and human development. Right if you do just

2147
01:59:34,120 --> 01:59:37,480
Speaker 1: generally see like why, I like how these things would

2148
01:59:37,520 --> 01:59:39,520
Speaker 1: come about. Yeah, I mean we tend to do better

2149
01:59:40,120 --> 01:59:43,720
Speaker 1: not eating each other. It creates a kind of anarchy,

2150
01:59:43,840 --> 01:59:47,880
Speaker 1: right yeah. Um so but you know we're we're ractional

2151
01:59:48,040 --> 01:59:51,240
Speaker 1: enough now to know that, like, okay, if if we're

2152
01:59:51,280 --> 01:59:54,360
Speaker 1: out there together, if if one of us dies, all right,

2153
01:59:54,640 --> 01:59:57,560
Speaker 1: you know, it's cool, Like, go ahead, I'm already dead,

2154
01:59:57,800 --> 02:00:00,280
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I don't need it. But you know

2155
02:00:00,360 --> 02:00:02,600
Speaker 1: this is we have to do place place, um, a

2156
02:00:02,600 --> 02:00:06,120
Speaker 1: little bit of ourselves in the time where a period

2157
02:00:06,160 --> 02:00:10,440
Speaker 1: where where which was not okay? Um, so I picture

2158
02:00:10,480 --> 02:00:14,920
Speaker 1: like this. Say you're in a horrible situation today and

2159
02:00:14,920 --> 02:00:17,720
Speaker 1: you want to having to eat somebody, You eat your body,

2160
02:00:18,080 --> 02:00:20,840
Speaker 1: You get rescued, you come home and you're laying in

2161
02:00:20,880 --> 02:00:24,000
Speaker 1: bed with your wife at night, right, and then your

2162
02:00:24,000 --> 02:00:27,520
Speaker 1: wife is like, oh, I love him, so glad he's home.

2163
02:00:27,840 --> 02:00:29,400
Speaker 1: But like in the back of her head is like,

2164
02:00:29,640 --> 02:00:36,760
Speaker 1: he ate his body. Yeah, it's gonna color. It's gonna

2165
02:00:36,800 --> 02:00:39,280
Speaker 1: color Like they might accept it and get it and

2166
02:00:39,320 --> 02:00:43,680
Speaker 1: all that, it's gonna color the way they view you forever. Right. Yeah,

2167
02:00:43,680 --> 02:00:46,000
Speaker 1: I mean you're you're done, you're done for It's just

2168
02:00:46,080 --> 02:00:49,400
Speaker 1: people are gonna treat you different, right. And so that's

2169
02:00:49,440 --> 02:00:51,440
Speaker 1: one of the things that I was, I like, I

2170
02:00:51,520 --> 02:00:53,440
Speaker 1: hedged a little bit, you know, part of me when

2171
02:00:53,440 --> 02:00:55,760
Speaker 1: they're like, well let's put we're let's put cannibalism on

2172
02:00:55,800 --> 02:00:58,400
Speaker 1: the cover, and I'm like, you know what, Okay, that's

2173
02:00:58,400 --> 02:01:01,160
Speaker 1: a great idea for marketing. Um, you know, but you

2174
02:01:01,200 --> 02:01:05,200
Speaker 1: know it's true. I mean, everybody triumphant and tragic and cannibalistic,

2175
02:01:05,760 --> 02:01:09,200
Speaker 1: greely polar expedition, laborate device. Yeah that sounds good. But

2176
02:01:09,240 --> 02:01:12,360
Speaker 1: I mean, look, we all remember the dinner party. Um,

2177
02:01:12,400 --> 02:01:13,760
Speaker 1: that's what That's the one thing you can tell you

2178
02:01:13,760 --> 02:01:17,160
Speaker 1: about the dinner party. That's those guys they're somewhere, they

2179
02:01:17,160 --> 02:01:20,480
Speaker 1: at each other, right, and all the other stuff. That's

2180
02:01:20,520 --> 02:01:22,720
Speaker 1: you know, sort of heroic about what they were, how

2181
02:01:22,720 --> 02:01:25,600
Speaker 1: they were able to spride, but in the colors an expedition.

2182
02:01:26,240 --> 02:01:29,200
Speaker 1: But I try not to, Um, you know, I try

2183
02:01:29,200 --> 02:01:32,440
Speaker 1: to handle the cannibalism in a way that doesn't make

2184
02:01:32,520 --> 02:01:36,760
Speaker 1: it Um, I don't know, scious, I guess, Yeah, you

2185
02:01:36,800 --> 02:01:40,760
Speaker 1: treat respectfully. Yeah, it's important to treat cannibalism with some respect.

2186
02:01:41,160 --> 02:01:43,120
Speaker 1: And I'm only bringing it up because it comes up

2187
02:01:43,120 --> 02:01:46,040
Speaker 1: now and then. Um, it's the thing that we muse

2188
02:01:46,120 --> 02:01:48,160
Speaker 1: on and are curious about. So I'm not trying to

2189
02:01:48,240 --> 02:01:50,600
Speaker 1: over I'm not trying to overdo it. No, I get it.

2190
02:01:50,640 --> 02:01:53,000
Speaker 1: I'm going for the salacious details where the you know,

2191
02:01:53,080 --> 02:01:55,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I asked you about sex on the frontier

2192
02:01:55,560 --> 02:02:00,720
Speaker 1: and I asked about canibalism. Both happen frequently. Uh it

2193
02:02:00,800 --> 02:02:06,120
Speaker 1: turns out I don't want to talk about it. Uh man,

2194
02:02:06,240 --> 02:02:09,680
Speaker 1: how are we doing? We got it? We've been going

2195
02:02:09,720 --> 02:02:15,600
Speaker 1: for three minutes? How long we been going for films? Yeah? Perfect?

2196
02:02:16,520 --> 02:02:18,320
Speaker 1: I have a question though before we go. No, you

2197
02:02:18,320 --> 02:02:19,680
Speaker 1: get a closing thought in a minute. But I want

2198
02:02:20,040 --> 02:02:25,040
Speaker 1: the books, okay, okay, So if you are interested in

2199
02:02:25,160 --> 02:02:30,520
Speaker 1: learning about uh, like, the best way to take on

2200
02:02:30,560 --> 02:02:33,040
Speaker 1: American history, in my mind is not to go to

2201
02:02:33,160 --> 02:02:35,520
Speaker 1: history class. I'm not saying you should skip history class,

2202
02:02:36,120 --> 02:02:38,320
Speaker 1: but you go to history class, you're like, Okay, boys

2203
02:02:38,320 --> 02:02:40,920
Speaker 1: and girls, this happening, that happening, this is happening, that happened,

2204
02:02:41,040 --> 02:02:44,800
Speaker 1: and here we are today. Um. A better approach is

2205
02:02:44,840 --> 02:02:49,200
Speaker 1: to take the chunks, to take the chunks and take

2206
02:02:49,240 --> 02:02:52,320
Speaker 1: a look at the chunks. Yeah and um, and you

2207
02:02:52,360 --> 02:02:55,040
Speaker 1: have a host of books, but I picked the I

2208
02:02:55,160 --> 02:03:00,839
Speaker 1: gravitated towards these, appreciate it, and they're really telling chunks

2209
02:03:01,600 --> 02:03:06,600
Speaker 1: about where we're at, like where we were at as

2210
02:03:06,600 --> 02:03:13,520
Speaker 1: a people, Um, in a very interesting century, amazing place,

2211
02:03:13,640 --> 02:03:19,400
Speaker 1: amazing time like that that that Crockett right, and what

2212
02:03:19,480 --> 02:03:21,520
Speaker 1: it tells you about American politics and what it tells

2213
02:03:21,560 --> 02:03:28,520
Speaker 1: you about American Violence, and then um, and then I

2214
02:03:28,600 --> 02:03:31,560
Speaker 1: keep calling the Crockett. The book is American Legend. The

2215
02:03:31,600 --> 02:03:35,400
Speaker 1: title is American Legend the Real Life Adventures of Davy Crockett,

2216
02:03:35,840 --> 02:03:39,440
Speaker 1: and then Labyrinth Device, the subtitle being The Triumphant and

2217
02:03:39,560 --> 02:03:44,600
Speaker 1: Tragic Greeley Polar Expedition just kind of like it's sort

2218
02:03:44,600 --> 02:03:49,320
Speaker 1: of it's like these like harrowing, adventurous snapshots of sort

2219
02:03:49,360 --> 02:03:52,360
Speaker 1: of like where we were as a people, what our

2220
02:03:52,400 --> 02:03:57,480
Speaker 1: priorities were, and some of the people that we put forth. Yeah,

2221
02:03:57,520 --> 02:03:59,840
Speaker 1: I love that. And you know, behind both of them,

2222
02:03:59,840 --> 02:04:04,720
Speaker 1: I think is this idea of adventure and of of

2223
02:04:04,760 --> 02:04:07,600
Speaker 1: the unknown, right, because in the case of of Crockett,

2224
02:04:07,880 --> 02:04:13,240
Speaker 1: you know, um, you know, it wasn't really known completely

2225
02:04:13,800 --> 02:04:17,840
Speaker 1: what lay beyond the frontier. And in the case of

2226
02:04:18,200 --> 02:04:20,800
Speaker 1: you know, Greeley and his men, they're going to places

2227
02:04:20,880 --> 02:04:23,520
Speaker 1: no other human had ever been. In fact, when they

2228
02:04:23,560 --> 02:04:29,400
Speaker 1: build for Conger, they're the highest living humans on Earth. Yeah,

2229
02:04:29,440 --> 02:04:32,800
Speaker 1: Like they were going farther north than than the indigenous

2230
02:04:33,040 --> 02:04:35,680
Speaker 1: indigenous hunters went well, right, because they're like, Okay, there's

2231
02:04:35,920 --> 02:04:37,520
Speaker 1: no game out there, you know, and why would I

2232
02:04:37,560 --> 02:04:42,600
Speaker 1: go there? You know, you might reconsider, right, but so yeah,

2233
02:04:42,760 --> 02:04:47,480
Speaker 1: I really like that the notion of of how history

2234
02:04:47,600 --> 02:04:50,640
Speaker 1: can you know, there's a narrative there, so there's always

2235
02:04:50,680 --> 02:04:54,480
Speaker 1: just incredible stories. And it also is a sort of

2236
02:04:54,480 --> 02:04:59,680
Speaker 1: a snapshot into what people were thinking, the way they behaved, Um,

2237
02:05:00,080 --> 02:05:02,360
Speaker 1: they were willing to do, how much they could take

2238
02:05:02,560 --> 02:05:08,280
Speaker 1: brutally tough, toughest people. I mean, um yeah, just the

2239
02:05:08,320 --> 02:05:12,000
Speaker 1: idea that you can um survive some of these things,

2240
02:05:12,080 --> 02:05:16,280
Speaker 1: to me makes makes going out you know, hunting, and

2241
02:05:16,680 --> 02:05:19,560
Speaker 1: I'm always thinking about it when I'm out, like, wow,

2242
02:05:19,840 --> 02:05:24,800
Speaker 1: this is hard, but it's not that hard, you know. Um.

2243
02:05:24,880 --> 02:05:26,960
Speaker 1: So I really appreciate talking to you about both these books,

2244
02:05:26,960 --> 02:05:31,040
Speaker 1: and I'm excited to um, you know too to me

2245
02:05:31,200 --> 02:05:34,600
Speaker 1: really December three, Labyrinth Device comes out. Yeah, you probably

2246
02:05:34,600 --> 02:05:36,240
Speaker 1: go in order right now, right now, hold your order

2247
02:05:36,280 --> 02:05:38,480
Speaker 1: and stend of the book. Oh yeah yeah yeah, it's

2248
02:05:38,520 --> 02:05:41,280
Speaker 1: it's um available available now. Um I did. This is

2249
02:05:41,320 --> 02:05:44,040
Speaker 1: so funny. My son Okay, he's twenty five years old

2250
02:05:44,200 --> 02:05:47,800
Speaker 1: and he and his friends they are they are you know,

2251
02:05:47,800 --> 02:05:51,520
Speaker 1: they're grown men, and they've been arguing apparently Hunter, my

2252
02:05:51,560 --> 02:05:53,360
Speaker 1: son and Kyle and this kid have it up. You

2253
02:05:53,440 --> 02:05:57,840
Speaker 1: named your kid Hunter, named him Hunter's Moon. Uh, no,

2254
02:05:59,280 --> 02:06:03,240
Speaker 1: that name backfires on people. There's a per core hunter's

2255
02:06:03,280 --> 02:06:05,960
Speaker 1: name Hunter right, but he not a guarantee. You may

2256
02:06:06,000 --> 02:06:08,640
Speaker 1: still be Time's not a guarantee. But it's funny because

2257
02:06:08,680 --> 02:06:12,360
Speaker 1: they've been arguing this is and these are relatively intelligent men,

2258
02:06:12,640 --> 02:06:17,000
Speaker 1: and they've been arguing about this question of relatively highly

2259
02:06:17,040 --> 02:06:20,800
Speaker 1: intelligent child. But this, this just makes me wonders because

2260
02:06:20,800 --> 02:06:22,480
Speaker 1: I have my own position on it. So that the

2261
02:06:22,720 --> 02:06:25,840
Speaker 1: argument is whether a man and I don't know who?

2262
02:06:25,880 --> 02:06:27,360
Speaker 1: That is the question you want to ask a question.

2263
02:06:27,400 --> 02:06:29,080
Speaker 1: I want to ask you if there's a if there's

2264
02:06:29,080 --> 02:06:31,760
Speaker 1: a grown kind of grown man, and whoever that man

2265
02:06:31,960 --> 02:06:36,880
Speaker 1: is kill a wolf with his bare hands. And my

2266
02:06:37,000 --> 02:06:38,800
Speaker 1: brother Matt would tell you yes, and he'll tell you

2267
02:06:38,880 --> 02:06:40,520
Speaker 1: how to do it. So I was my question is

2268
02:06:40,640 --> 02:06:42,680
Speaker 1: what man would this be? And how would he do it?

2269
02:06:43,200 --> 02:06:46,400
Speaker 1: My brother has two ways that he speculates he would

2270
02:06:46,400 --> 02:06:51,040
Speaker 1: do it. One uh, sometimes he talks about that he

2271
02:06:51,120 --> 02:06:55,320
Speaker 1: would crush its throat and there's all their favorite way

2272
02:06:55,360 --> 02:06:57,360
Speaker 1: that he talks about is you get a good grip

2273
02:06:57,440 --> 02:07:00,480
Speaker 1: on its lower jaw. Oh yeah, you get a good

2274
02:07:00,520 --> 02:07:04,480
Speaker 1: grip on its upper jaw, and you just hold it

2275
02:07:04,920 --> 02:07:08,080
Speaker 1: and tired it out the old mandibular because I can't

2276
02:07:08,600 --> 02:07:10,800
Speaker 1: close its mouth, and he's like he would hold it

2277
02:07:11,160 --> 02:07:13,600
Speaker 1: and hold it and hold it and hold it and

2278
02:07:13,680 --> 02:07:16,840
Speaker 1: hold it until it so tuckered out and then he

2279
02:07:16,920 --> 02:07:19,640
Speaker 1: crushes its throat. Now I have to say there's some

2280
02:07:19,800 --> 02:07:21,600
Speaker 1: validity to that because I have I mean, I'm a

2281
02:07:21,840 --> 02:07:24,320
Speaker 1: dog man, right, and I have grabbed I learned a

2282
02:07:24,400 --> 02:07:26,320
Speaker 1: while ago. They if you grab a dog's lower jaw

2283
02:07:26,440 --> 02:07:28,360
Speaker 1: and just hold it with your you know, as hard

2284
02:07:28,360 --> 02:07:32,800
Speaker 1: as you can, they they can't bite from above now.

2285
02:07:33,240 --> 02:07:35,360
Speaker 1: So but the question is, how do you get ahold

2286
02:07:35,400 --> 02:07:39,000
Speaker 1: of the of the wolf's lower mandible, you can break

2287
02:07:39,080 --> 02:07:41,800
Speaker 1: up a dog. I think I guess dogs hate is

2288
02:07:41,840 --> 02:07:46,080
Speaker 1: when you put your finger in their butt. People say,

2289
02:07:46,240 --> 02:07:48,960
Speaker 1: you've got two dogs they're locked, the two dogs that

2290
02:07:49,000 --> 02:07:51,600
Speaker 1: are fighting, and they're locked in a death grip. If

2291
02:07:51,640 --> 02:07:56,520
Speaker 1: you put your finger in their butt, they quit fighting you. Yeah. Yeah,

2292
02:07:57,440 --> 02:07:59,640
Speaker 1: you have not field tested this though, right, No, But

2293
02:07:59,680 --> 02:08:02,440
Speaker 1: I it's true of a lot of things. Yeah, So

2294
02:08:02,880 --> 02:08:04,840
Speaker 1: you're gonna just say that your brother has a position,

2295
02:08:04,960 --> 02:08:06,760
Speaker 1: do you have? But do you think this is moral?

2296
02:08:06,880 --> 02:08:08,960
Speaker 1: When he gets to drinking and talking, When we get

2297
02:08:09,000 --> 02:08:10,440
Speaker 1: to talking about what would you do. He's like, oh,

2298
02:08:10,480 --> 02:08:12,280
Speaker 1: I'll tell what I would do. But yeah, I mean

2299
02:08:12,640 --> 02:08:16,120
Speaker 1: I think it's absurd. Like, but your kid wants to know, well,

2300
02:08:16,160 --> 02:08:18,960
Speaker 1: he wants to know what you think about whether a

2301
02:08:18,960 --> 02:08:21,280
Speaker 1: guy could kill a wolf with bare hands? Yeah? Sure, okay,

2302
02:08:21,360 --> 02:08:27,200
Speaker 1: what like you're how much you hundre pounds? So let's

2303
02:08:27,200 --> 02:08:28,840
Speaker 1: say I mean a huge wolf. Like everybody likes to

2304
02:08:28,840 --> 02:08:30,400
Speaker 1: talk about the ones that are over a hunter pounds,

2305
02:08:30,400 --> 02:08:32,920
Speaker 1: there's a lot that aren't. So there's a wolf, this

2306
02:08:33,000 --> 02:08:36,440
Speaker 1: wolf seventy five pounds and yawning him getting a skirmish. Yeah,

2307
02:08:36,560 --> 02:08:39,560
Speaker 1: is it possible? I saw a video recently where a

2308
02:08:39,680 --> 02:08:43,800
Speaker 1: kangaroo has a dog and a headlock, right, so yeah,

2309
02:08:44,120 --> 02:08:48,280
Speaker 1: ponder that. Yeah, and this dog's helpless just totally messes

2310
02:08:48,320 --> 02:08:53,720
Speaker 1: them up. So could Yannie, Big Strap and Latvian throw

2311
02:08:53,840 --> 02:08:55,880
Speaker 1: down with the wolf? And when if he came back

2312
02:08:55,920 --> 02:08:57,280
Speaker 1: and told me he killed a wolf, I would be like,

2313
02:08:57,400 --> 02:09:02,360
Speaker 1: that's cool, you did it with one on one. Yeah, mano, mano,

2314
02:09:03,880 --> 02:09:10,200
Speaker 1: mano e par peril. If I had to deal with

2315
02:09:10,320 --> 02:09:15,560
Speaker 1: the pack, would be mano I lobo right, pack, That's

2316
02:09:15,560 --> 02:09:18,520
Speaker 1: where Yanni jaws limits. All right, I just went mess

2317
02:09:18,560 --> 02:09:21,800
Speaker 1: with you. He yi thinks that he might run into

2318
02:09:21,840 --> 02:09:29,120
Speaker 1: trouble with a large pack. Right, what what else you got, Yanni? Um?

2319
02:09:29,680 --> 02:09:31,840
Speaker 1: I want to go back to Crockett real quick and

2320
02:09:31,960 --> 02:09:34,680
Speaker 1: just figure out tell me. Can you tell me in

2321
02:09:34,720 --> 02:09:38,000
Speaker 1: a concise way exactly how I know you guys talked

2322
02:09:38,040 --> 02:09:41,400
Speaker 1: about him being famous for being famous, But how did

2323
02:09:41,480 --> 02:09:47,480
Speaker 1: the initial famous come about? Right? Because he would be like, um,

2324
02:09:47,880 --> 02:09:51,880
Speaker 1: part alligator and my mama was a bear, my daddy was.

2325
02:09:52,360 --> 02:09:55,960
Speaker 1: So it's just him just talking. Yeah, So he was

2326
02:09:56,120 --> 02:09:58,480
Speaker 1: making up stories about himself and then that, you know,

2327
02:09:58,680 --> 02:10:01,640
Speaker 1: get written up in papers. And then there's this um

2328
02:10:02,000 --> 02:10:05,800
Speaker 1: playwright who ended up going, man, this this guy is fantastic,

2329
02:10:05,960 --> 02:10:09,040
Speaker 1: Like he's this guy's awesome. So let's just make a character,

2330
02:10:09,840 --> 02:10:14,600
Speaker 1: uh about his na like Nimrod Wildfire. Yeah, you know,

2331
02:10:14,920 --> 02:10:19,440
Speaker 1: it will make a character that everyone actually knows haunts bears,

2332
02:10:19,520 --> 02:10:22,400
Speaker 1: lives out in Tennessee. And then that play like tours

2333
02:10:22,480 --> 02:10:25,160
Speaker 1: around the cities. You know, it's like in Washington, India's

2334
02:10:25,160 --> 02:10:28,360
Speaker 1: like Broadway. Uh, and you've got this character, this flamboyant

2335
02:10:28,520 --> 02:10:32,640
Speaker 1: frontiersman character who's like talking like the country bumpkin. And

2336
02:10:32,760 --> 02:10:38,400
Speaker 1: then um, everyone knows it's based on my weight and

2337
02:10:38,520 --> 02:10:43,000
Speaker 1: wild cats and jump Mississippi and one big jump and

2338
02:10:43,040 --> 02:10:45,160
Speaker 1: people meet Crocket and be like, oh, you're the guy

2339
02:10:45,240 --> 02:10:48,080
Speaker 1: that You're the guy who can leave the Mississippi's Like, well,

2340
02:10:48,160 --> 02:10:52,360
Speaker 1: I mean, you know kind of if I have a boat. Yeah,

2341
02:10:52,520 --> 02:10:56,320
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, so he had. He was very shrewd

2342
02:10:56,360 --> 02:11:00,920
Speaker 1: about benefiting from like once the once people all, oh wow,

2343
02:11:01,040 --> 02:11:03,480
Speaker 1: this guy is amazing, like he's all these things. He

2344
02:11:03,600 --> 02:11:07,919
Speaker 1: never um like discouraged them from believing it just snowball

2345
02:11:07,960 --> 02:11:09,600
Speaker 1: at that point. But I was sort of wondering that

2346
02:11:10,120 --> 02:11:14,480
Speaker 1: the beginning, like imagine, okay, you know how in the beginning, yeah,

2347
02:11:14,520 --> 02:11:16,400
Speaker 1: I mean, it was just slow. It was kind of

2348
02:11:16,440 --> 02:11:19,320
Speaker 1: a slow build, right. So he when he started running

2349
02:11:19,720 --> 02:11:23,879
Speaker 1: for Congress, then he like really latched onto that persona

2350
02:11:24,040 --> 02:11:27,480
Speaker 1: of the of the excellent marksman and the hunter and

2351
02:11:27,800 --> 02:11:30,520
Speaker 1: the you know, this guy who could win a cow

2352
02:11:30,600 --> 02:11:33,520
Speaker 1: in a shooting competition. Right. So he he just he

2353
02:11:33,680 --> 02:11:36,640
Speaker 1: just rolled with it, and he was more interesting than

2354
02:11:36,680 --> 02:11:39,400
Speaker 1: a lot of his counterparts, right because he actually did

2355
02:11:39,440 --> 02:11:41,600
Speaker 1: some legit stuff. Yeah, I mean, he was like out

2356
02:11:41,640 --> 02:11:44,040
Speaker 1: there living it. Um. So let's say, you know, you

2357
02:11:44,160 --> 02:11:46,280
Speaker 1: thwarted a bear attack by hitting a bar in the face,

2358
02:11:46,320 --> 02:11:48,880
Speaker 1: of a track and bowl. Let's stay down the road.

2359
02:11:50,360 --> 02:11:54,880
Speaker 1: I was down the road. Uh. It winds up being that,

2360
02:11:55,160 --> 02:11:58,120
Speaker 1: Uh you've done this a handful of times and maybe

2361
02:11:58,200 --> 02:12:01,960
Speaker 1: even killed one with a track pole, and people are like,

2362
02:12:02,040 --> 02:12:03,840
Speaker 1: did you really kill all them bears of that track

2363
02:12:03,880 --> 02:12:07,920
Speaker 1: and pool? And I can't say it ain't true, right,

2364
02:12:08,240 --> 02:12:09,800
Speaker 1: It all of a sudden, pretty soon you're just like

2365
02:12:09,960 --> 02:12:15,120
Speaker 1: that crazy Johnnie, that guy in his check. But you're like,

2366
02:12:15,400 --> 02:12:18,200
Speaker 1: my god, I'll tell you a story, you know, and

2367
02:12:18,240 --> 02:12:20,720
Speaker 1: it's just pretty soon you kind of create like a

2368
02:12:21,920 --> 02:12:24,960
Speaker 1: larger than life. And it was like in the end,

2369
02:12:25,040 --> 02:12:27,280
Speaker 1: you did hit a baron ahead of the track and pole.

2370
02:12:28,080 --> 02:12:31,320
Speaker 1: That's pretty awesome. Oh yeah, I mean that you did that,

2371
02:12:31,440 --> 02:12:34,520
Speaker 1: don't mess. I know, like see that power ring on

2372
02:12:34,600 --> 02:12:38,200
Speaker 1: his hands him? Is that Oh yeah, that'll comatch, you know,

2373
02:12:38,480 --> 02:12:41,560
Speaker 1: blinding blinding flash of silver. Right. But I mean I

2374
02:12:41,600 --> 02:12:44,840
Speaker 1: think that's a that's an excellent explanation of how it works.

2375
02:12:44,960 --> 02:12:49,600
Speaker 1: You know. Um, it builds from the lower and you know,

2376
02:12:49,840 --> 02:12:52,920
Speaker 1: you're like, you're not gonna like, right now, are you

2377
02:12:53,000 --> 02:12:55,880
Speaker 1: gonna argue the fact that you if somebody said, yeah,

2378
02:12:56,080 --> 02:12:59,360
Speaker 1: like the bar there you have bad mo phone took

2379
02:12:59,400 --> 02:13:06,800
Speaker 1: down a bear, you know shooks. Well nothing, um, what

2380
02:13:06,880 --> 02:13:11,080
Speaker 1: else you got. I've just been looking at while we've

2381
02:13:11,120 --> 02:13:15,320
Speaker 1: been talking about this, the spots where Greeley went Fort

2382
02:13:15,360 --> 02:13:19,720
Speaker 1: Conger and the map around that area. Man, looks like

2383
02:13:19,840 --> 02:13:26,320
Speaker 1: a bad place spent a couple of years. Well yeah,

2384
02:13:26,520 --> 02:13:30,120
Speaker 1: especially when um, you know, when the sun congress as

2385
02:13:30,160 --> 02:13:33,360
Speaker 1: farthest north. They made it no, no, they so from

2386
02:13:33,480 --> 02:13:36,360
Speaker 1: Fort Conger they made it to like eighty two degrees

2387
02:13:37,240 --> 02:13:42,400
Speaker 1: four spike camps. Yeah, I mean that's when they would

2388
02:13:42,440 --> 02:13:46,560
Speaker 1: go off in the sledges, right, So they made expeditionary

2389
02:13:47,160 --> 02:13:51,040
Speaker 1: treks out, which were really dangerous too, because there was

2390
02:13:51,080 --> 02:13:54,080
Speaker 1: always the danger of breaking through the ice. Um. Part

2391
02:13:54,120 --> 02:13:56,360
Speaker 1: of the reason that green landing dudes were so useful

2392
02:13:56,440 --> 02:13:58,560
Speaker 1: is that they could they could read the ice. They

2393
02:13:58,600 --> 02:14:02,040
Speaker 1: would know, you know, um how thin it was that

2394
02:14:02,160 --> 02:14:04,360
Speaker 1: they were. They they spend their lives there, whereas the

2395
02:14:04,880 --> 02:14:08,000
Speaker 1: army guys were learning on the fly, and these green

2396
02:14:08,080 --> 02:14:11,080
Speaker 1: landed guys would say like, don't go don't go there. Yeah,

2397
02:14:11,080 --> 02:14:12,840
Speaker 1: there's a point where they're looking at a chunk of

2398
02:14:12,920 --> 02:14:14,760
Speaker 1: ice want or they get across it and they see

2399
02:14:14,800 --> 02:14:17,320
Speaker 1: how walrus is their busting their heads up through. Oh, man,

2400
02:14:17,680 --> 02:14:19,400
Speaker 1: and he's like, if the warris can bust his head

2401
02:14:19,440 --> 02:14:21,920
Speaker 1: up through it, you can't go. Yeah, and then then

2402
02:14:21,960 --> 02:14:24,680
Speaker 1: they have to like retreat. But yeah, so they went

2403
02:14:24,760 --> 02:14:29,440
Speaker 1: considerably farther north than Fort Conger Um. You know, I

2404
02:14:29,520 --> 02:14:33,720
Speaker 1: think I think it was thirty days out um on

2405
02:14:33,840 --> 02:14:37,480
Speaker 1: the sledge to get to the farthest north and then

2406
02:14:37,800 --> 02:14:41,920
Speaker 1: thirty days back. It's just unbelievable, ladies and gentlemen. It's

2407
02:14:41,960 --> 02:14:48,520
Speaker 1: got hunting, it's got starving, it's got ice crossing, fox

2408
02:14:48,560 --> 02:14:57,400
Speaker 1: shooting people eating laveryn device. Thank you man, Phil. Yeah,

2409
02:14:57,600 --> 02:15:00,480
Speaker 1: I'm excited to pay money for the book December. You

2410
02:15:00,560 --> 02:15:03,360
Speaker 1: know what, I'm gonna tell everyone that works here. I

2411
02:15:03,400 --> 02:15:05,200
Speaker 1: don't know how many copies this around the office, but

2412
02:15:05,200 --> 02:15:06,760
Speaker 1: I'm an account for all of them. And I'm not

2413
02:15:06,840 --> 02:15:08,960
Speaker 1: letting Phil go near to Sun's bitches and fills buying

2414
02:15:09,000 --> 02:15:12,400
Speaker 1: his own right now, Phil, gladly, yep, getting in my

2415
02:15:12,440 --> 02:15:14,440
Speaker 1: cart right now here we go. It's just close seal

2416
02:15:14,480 --> 02:15:16,800
Speaker 1: the deal. It's actually I'm just put in your cart.

2417
02:15:16,920 --> 02:15:19,120
Speaker 1: Let me see, send me that little order, show us

2418
02:15:19,120 --> 02:15:21,680
Speaker 1: that little order complete button. Yeah, you know you're you're

2419
02:15:22,240 --> 02:15:24,760
Speaker 1: you're saying it's that December is not a good mind today.

2420
02:15:24,800 --> 02:15:29,040
Speaker 1: It's actually the cold Read Amazon an Amazon top ten

2421
02:15:29,280 --> 02:15:33,440
Speaker 1: pick um for the month of December. Hello, I'm very

2422
02:15:33,480 --> 02:15:36,520
Speaker 1: psyched about that. So when you're sitting there all cold, Yeah,

2423
02:15:36,840 --> 02:15:40,040
Speaker 1: like you think you're cold? What I really want to

2424
02:15:40,080 --> 02:15:43,680
Speaker 1: be called? Uh? You tell your foot falls off and

2425
02:15:43,760 --> 02:15:46,240
Speaker 1: you don't know it. Don't tell me about believe that

2426
02:15:46,680 --> 02:15:49,120
Speaker 1: you have to tell the guy. They don't have the

2427
02:15:49,160 --> 02:15:51,120
Speaker 1: heart to tell him, Like your foot just fell off

2428
02:15:51,280 --> 02:15:57,040
Speaker 1: while we were talking. Great out of the tent. At

2429
02:15:57,080 --> 02:16:02,280
Speaker 1: that point, you can't really be there mentally. Oh, I mean,

2430
02:16:02,320 --> 02:16:04,240
Speaker 1: if your foot just fell off and you didn't know it,

2431
02:16:05,360 --> 02:16:08,480
Speaker 1: it's a little bad. Everything's not firing. This is the

2432
02:16:08,520 --> 02:16:11,800
Speaker 1: last thing about these guys. They have this like massochistic

2433
02:16:11,960 --> 02:16:16,800
Speaker 1: tendency to uh sit around and even right down, like

2434
02:16:16,960 --> 02:16:19,360
Speaker 1: even right down. If I could have anything to eat,

2435
02:16:19,400 --> 02:16:21,760
Speaker 1: here's what it would be. And that's an interesting list

2436
02:16:22,160 --> 02:16:24,400
Speaker 1: because the stuff they eat isn't like what you know,

2437
02:16:24,520 --> 02:16:27,440
Speaker 1: you'd like pepperoni pizza, right. These dudes are like, um,

2438
02:16:28,120 --> 02:16:31,960
Speaker 1: these guys are like Pete de foi gras. Some of

2439
02:16:32,000 --> 02:16:35,200
Speaker 1: them they think of their like lentil soup, elaborate meal

2440
02:16:35,280 --> 02:16:36,960
Speaker 1: they've ever had, like in or and by the way,

2441
02:16:37,000 --> 02:16:39,200
Speaker 1: have you ever been like, of course you have, but

2442
02:16:39,280 --> 02:16:42,400
Speaker 1: like super freaking hungry, and you do start having these

2443
02:16:42,440 --> 02:16:45,480
Speaker 1: elaborate food fantasies, right, and you sit there and go

2444
02:16:45,720 --> 02:16:48,000
Speaker 1: and it's you're right, it's totally massa because they can't

2445
02:16:48,040 --> 02:16:50,600
Speaker 1: have any of it. They're eating freaking seal blubber. You

2446
02:16:50,600 --> 02:16:53,280
Speaker 1: know where my mind goes where those when you go

2447
02:16:53,320 --> 02:16:55,640
Speaker 1: into a gas station and they got that glass display

2448
02:16:55,720 --> 02:16:59,960
Speaker 1: case full all that brown food. I sometimes think about

2449
02:17:00,120 --> 02:17:02,680
Speaker 1: if I could just get into one of those glass cases,

2450
02:17:02,920 --> 02:17:05,640
Speaker 1: or if our diet is different. I'm thinking about a salad.

2451
02:17:06,800 --> 02:17:08,760
Speaker 1: It's either I want like a great salad or I

2452
02:17:08,840 --> 02:17:11,240
Speaker 1: want to like bust the glass case out with a

2453
02:17:11,360 --> 02:17:14,600
Speaker 1: rock and eat all that deep fried bridles and whatever

2454
02:17:14,640 --> 02:17:18,400
Speaker 1: they got. Con dogs. I'm all about beef, you know,

2455
02:17:19,440 --> 02:17:22,720
Speaker 1: corn dogs and pizza and like fried mac and cheese.

2456
02:17:23,480 --> 02:17:25,520
Speaker 1: Oh yeah yeah, if you can fry it. A way

2457
02:17:25,560 --> 02:17:28,360
Speaker 1: to fry up some mac and cheese, That's what I

2458
02:17:28,440 --> 02:17:33,560
Speaker 1: get thinking about. H Yanni gets thinking about that breast milk.

2459
02:17:36,040 --> 02:17:39,560
Speaker 1: Let's gonna get some lunch down. Boys. Hey, al right,

2460
02:17:39,680 --> 02:17:42,160
Speaker 1: it's been great. You have to come back. I appreciate it. Man,

2461
02:17:42,280 --> 02:17:44,640
Speaker 1: there's there's a couple other stories that I haven't even

2462
02:17:44,680 --> 02:17:46,480
Speaker 1: told you. Not you roll six books. We only talked

2463
02:17:46,520 --> 02:17:48,199
Speaker 1: about two of them. Well, he don't even have anything

2464
02:17:48,200 --> 02:17:49,960
Speaker 1: to do with the books or other stuff I did.

2465
02:17:50,360 --> 02:17:52,119
Speaker 1: But you know, I want to have you back. We're

2466
02:17:52,120 --> 02:17:54,160
Speaker 1: gonna just like uh, one time we had a guy

2467
02:17:54,200 --> 02:17:56,560
Speaker 1: on I wanted to mind again, and I just asked

2468
02:17:56,640 --> 02:17:59,480
Speaker 1: him how long would need to go by before we

2469
02:17:59,680 --> 02:18:01,880
Speaker 1: ask if you want to come back? What do you say?

2470
02:18:02,200 --> 02:18:04,039
Speaker 1: A year? Because he wanted to finish a book he's

2471
02:18:04,040 --> 02:18:06,440
Speaker 1: working on. Yeah, well, so I gotta when you get that,

2472
02:18:07,000 --> 02:18:10,240
Speaker 1: you get that, uh claud Dallas Man, get that Claude

2473
02:18:10,280 --> 02:18:13,080
Speaker 1: Dallas book wrapped up? Yeah. I actually am in the

2474
02:18:13,120 --> 02:18:16,520
Speaker 1: throws of trying to figure out the next move. What man, Yeah,

2475
02:18:16,600 --> 02:18:20,440
Speaker 1: I mean Claude has been covered though an Yeah, yeah,

2476
02:18:20,720 --> 02:18:26,920
Speaker 1: long time about well has he been covered? Well? No, yeah,

2477
02:18:27,080 --> 02:18:31,800
Speaker 1: everything's been all the low hanging fruit has been plucked. Man. Okay, yeah,

2478
02:18:31,959 --> 02:18:33,440
Speaker 1: that's always the question. But you know, I'm trying to

2479
02:18:33,600 --> 02:18:36,240
Speaker 1: enjoy this one. Like you know, as you know, writing

2480
02:18:36,280 --> 02:18:39,160
Speaker 1: books is really kind of hard, and it's solitary, and

2481
02:18:39,200 --> 02:18:41,520
Speaker 1: you're it's the worst thing in the world. We're sitting there,

2482
02:18:42,120 --> 02:18:44,400
Speaker 1: and then so I got a book coming out, you know,

2483
02:18:44,520 --> 02:18:47,280
Speaker 1: in December, and everybody's like, well, so what's the next one?

2484
02:18:47,360 --> 02:18:52,400
Speaker 1: You know, I'm like, lick, writing books is horrible. Uh,

2485
02:18:53,080 --> 02:18:57,039
Speaker 1: all right, Buddy Leavy Labyrinth, Device to Triumphant and Tragic,

2486
02:18:57,480 --> 02:19:01,520
Speaker 1: and if you're so inclined, Cannibalistic Greeley Polar Expedition. And

2487
02:19:01,640 --> 02:19:05,800
Speaker 1: also we discussed at length American Legend, the real life

2488
02:19:05,920 --> 02:19:09,240
Speaker 1: adventures of Davy Crockett. I'm assuming all your books are

2489
02:19:09,280 --> 02:19:11,760
Speaker 1: available wherever books are sold, you bet you. And and

2490
02:19:11,840 --> 02:19:15,320
Speaker 1: then to really piss off all the booksellers, I'm assuming

2491
02:19:15,360 --> 02:19:17,640
Speaker 1: you can get them on Amazon. I think. So, okay,

2492
02:19:18,120 --> 02:19:19,520
Speaker 1: thank you very much, Thanks a lot man,