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Speaker 1: All right, so I think we're live, guys, let me

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Speaker 1: know if you can hear me in the chat. It

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Speaker 1: might be because I'm running audio from the game in

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Speaker 1: the background. Let me know if you guys can hear

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Speaker 1: us here. Frankie, how you doing tonight.

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Speaker 2: Man, I'm doing good, Derek. It is great to watch

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Speaker 2: baseball with you here tonight. And this has been a

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Speaker 2: great game so far, even though it's look, I'm used

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Speaker 2: to watching the World Series in which the Yankees are

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Speaker 2: not in it. I've become accustomed that over the years.

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Speaker 2: But you know, it's still fun to watch. It's still

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Speaker 2: the World Series. It's still great. And this game tonight,

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Speaker 2: the back and forth nature of it Otani showing up

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Speaker 2: once again, you know, Blad with that ridiculous slide.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the weird.

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Speaker 2: Strike call at the top of the first setting. So

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Speaker 2: many crazy things with but a fun game. And it's

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Speaker 2: not over yet. Here we are on top of the night.

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Speaker 1: Rookie Sazaki is a relief pitcher, is like a secret

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Speaker 1: weapon too. Man. He reminds me of Rivera Like back

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Speaker 1: in the nineties. It's just where he can come and

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Speaker 1: get a couple of innings, you know, because he was

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Speaker 1: a starter and so, I mean, he's been phenomenal, and

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Speaker 1: you know, Otani, he's basically like unlocking a cheat code. Man,

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Speaker 1: he's not human. I saw somebody say that Otani's Ai.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, we are insanely jealous as Yankees fans of

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Speaker 1: what's going on here. We had planned to do a

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Speaker 1: post game, but the game just tied up, and we

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Speaker 1: figured hop on for the ninth inning and see how

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Speaker 1: it goes, and just you know, see if we can

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Speaker 1: catch a cool ending. Here live reactions, So in case

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Speaker 1: you haven't been watching live, Otani has two home runs,

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Speaker 1: Hernandez has a home run, Alejandro Kirk has a three run,

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Speaker 1: Jack Schuerzer and Glass No did not make it deep

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Speaker 1: into the game at all. And we are presented by

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Speaker 1: Fox one. So I'm gonna go ahead and play the

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Speaker 1: intro here because we got to satisfy you know, all

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Speaker 1: the rules here. So Frankie will be back in justice. Second. Yes,

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Speaker 1: this is a Yankees channel. No, the Yankees are not

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Speaker 1: in the World Series, sadly, but it's still a baseball channel.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sitting here and I'm watching games one or

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Speaker 1: two and I'm thinking, man, I wish I was doing

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Speaker 1: a postgame like I was last year during the World Series,

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Speaker 1: and so I invited Frankie Baseball. We're gonna cover the

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Speaker 1: rest of the series here on this channel.

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Speaker 2: Well, why didn't you think of this until Game three?

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Speaker 1: Shut the hell up, Frankie just wanted to talk. That's

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Speaker 1: all this episode sponsored by Fox One. It's just a reaction.

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Speaker 1: And you know what it made me. It muted me again.

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Speaker 1: It muted me again. I'm not sure why. So we

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Speaker 1: should be good to go. Now, can you guys hear us?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I can hear you perfectly.

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Speaker 1: Fine, All right, sounds good. I've got some kind of

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Speaker 1: setting here where like it's it's it's muting me like

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Speaker 1: after a movie plays on my screen or whatever. I

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Speaker 1: switched out my We're.

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Speaker 2: Doing it live.

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Speaker 1: We're doing it live. We're doing it live, so we're

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Speaker 1: you know, we're just give not our best shot here.

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Speaker 1: So it's looking like right now an all time World

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Speaker 1: Series game. I look, I'm insanely jealous. I'm insanely jealous

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Speaker 1: because I wanted the Yankees to be in this. But hey,

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Speaker 1: that's life just got to get better next year, right,

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Speaker 1: I Mean, what we're seeing is two teams that are

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Speaker 1: insanely clutch. That have a ton of guys that can

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Speaker 1: make contact, that can hit the ball out of the ballpark.

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Speaker 1: You know, we had Bobashett he got a base knock

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Speaker 1: and then he got picked off a first base wandered off,

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Speaker 1: and I thought, in that moment, you know what, he

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Speaker 1: is the perfect Yankee. You know, he's meant to be

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Speaker 1: a Yankee. Otani obviously very good at baseball. A couple

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Speaker 1: of home runs in this game. Ta Oskar Hernandez has

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Speaker 1: the clutch gene. I mean, for sure, Alejandro Kirk has

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Speaker 1: five home runs in the postseason. Do you think that

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Speaker 1: little guys like are not getting enough credit? I mean,

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Speaker 1: you got Al Tuvey, who you know, has been a

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Speaker 1: beast in his career, Yogi Berra had a great career,

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Speaker 1: Alejandro Kirk. But you know, people disregard these smallish baseball players,

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Speaker 1: and somebody should make a movie about how there are

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Speaker 1: players who don't fit into the natural mold of baseball,

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Speaker 1: yet in the margins they end up being pretty good

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Speaker 1: and maybe we get somebody like Brad Pitt. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they would really drive people to the box office.

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Speaker 2: I mean, how can he not be romantic about baseball?

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Speaker 2: I mean really, you just you just look at that.

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Speaker 2: I love little guys in baseball. One of my favorite

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Speaker 2: baseball photos ever. Remember that nineteen fifty I forget the

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Speaker 2: player he played on Cleveland. He was the little little

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Speaker 2: person who played.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember his name, but I know you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: He was like four foot eight or something. They put

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Speaker 1: him in there, just a walk.

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Speaker 2: We need more players like that. It makes the game bump.

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Speaker 2: We need we need more exciting nights like that, like

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Speaker 2: a disco demolition night. We need like ten cent beer night.

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Speaker 2: We need more crazy promotions like that. Really that that

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Speaker 2: people can still remember all those years later.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just I'm enjoying good baseball for once, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I just hope this game doesn't go fifteen innings.

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Speaker 1: We had postgame reaction on the thumbnail. I've changed it

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Speaker 1: to Otani is good because if this game goes fifteen

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Speaker 1: sixteen innings, I will not be awake. I gotta go

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Speaker 1: into the office, Frankie. So I was telling Frankie, I

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Speaker 1: got a new job, and I started today and I

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Speaker 1: have to go into the office once a week and

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Speaker 1: it's on Tuesday mornings. And it's the first time that

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Speaker 1: I'll be going into an office to work since twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: and so wow, yeah, so I mean I got.

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Speaker 2: A Aaron Judge's rookie year exactly.

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Speaker 1: I've watched his entire career from my couch without having

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Speaker 1: to go in, so hopefully I can make it. We're

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Speaker 1: supposed to get like an inch of rain too, so

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be like a crazy, crazy commute because in Raleigh,

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Speaker 1: where I'm at, people can't drive in the rain. I

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Speaker 1: don't I don't know if it's like that where you're at,

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Speaker 1: but people cannot drive in the rain.

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Speaker 2: So look where I live in New Jersey, people can't

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Speaker 2: drive period.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that's true.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Roki Sazaki, man, he is just so filthy the splitters.

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Speaker 1: He's throwing defive physics.

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Speaker 2: It's amazing and just another great I don't know if

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Speaker 2: you I don't know if we're on the same stream.

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Speaker 2: Here another great defensive play with you know ikf getting

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Speaker 2: thrown out at third on just another just this game

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Speaker 2: has been full. They had like three or four just

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Speaker 2: wild moments and and Sasaki has just been a revelation

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Speaker 2: in the bullpen for the Dodgers.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: He's been by far their best reliever at a time

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Speaker 2: when they desperately knew it and that was the big

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Speaker 2: weakness heading into this postseason for the Dodgers was their bullpen,

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Speaker 2: and he has helped that out immensely.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Diego says, let me be your producer for future shows.

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Speaker 1: We go live without audio one time and people want

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Speaker 1: to replace like this is the These are the same

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Speaker 1: guys that want to freaking trade Aaron Judge after he

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Speaker 1: goes oh for four an opening day, get the hell out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean honestly, like, we didn't have a problem all

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Speaker 1: year long, and now this guy wants to replace me

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Speaker 1: after one.

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Speaker 2: At least we waited till now for the problem.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, we went until after the Yankee season to end.

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Speaker 1: David says, can grat something you do, new job, You're

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Speaker 1: gonna kill it, Appreciate it, appreciate it. Yeah. I I

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Speaker 1: was working for a place all summer. I was working

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Speaker 1: for a podcast company and they went out of business.

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Speaker 1: So I got two days off and then I got

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Speaker 1: to start another one new job and I started today,

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Speaker 1: So I'm looking forward to it. Should be should be

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Speaker 1: a good experience, should be fun. But driving in the

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Speaker 1: rain in the morning not fun. And what I'm really

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Speaker 1: most concerned about Frankie is having to actually wake up

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Speaker 1: and like get myself in gear, like, you know, put

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Speaker 1: on pants, you know, shave, brush my teeth, all that stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I hate doing that. I get a I got

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Speaker 2: a blait. Like some time it was my job. I

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Speaker 2: can wake up at like ten o'clock. Sometimes I can't

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Speaker 2: imagine all of a sudden being like all right six seven.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's just one day, one day a week

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Speaker 1: for that. So Brian Bashman says, what do you guys

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Speaker 1: think about trading Austin Wells in a prospect for William contrast,

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Speaker 1: I hadn't thought about it, honestly. I've heard that William

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Speaker 1: Atries is not really great with working with pictures, is

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Speaker 1: what I've heard. But I mean, I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: don't think that they're going to move Wells.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: I think Cashman likes to take the path of least

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Speaker 1: resistance and just kind of, you know, make as few

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Speaker 1: moves as possible, move the needle a little bit and

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Speaker 1: hope you get lucky in the playoffs. That's kind of,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: And Wells was disappointing this year, but was he bad

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Speaker 2: enough to where you're already like, all right, let's get

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Speaker 2: rid of him.

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Speaker 1: He was pretty he was pretty bad at times. Man,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, and Toronto goes down, So what do

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Speaker 1: you think we're gonna get a dodge? His walk off here?

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Speaker 2: It just seems inevitable. Who's botting? Do we have a three?

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Speaker 2: It's oh, oh gosh, it's Paget. Why I say page

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Speaker 2: I'm an idiot.

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Speaker 1: Imagine Otani walks off for his third home run of

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Speaker 1: the game, and it'll be a second time this season

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Speaker 1: in the postseason, that he's hit three home runs in

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Speaker 1: a game.

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Speaker 2: He's It's just it's what this guy has been able

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Speaker 2: to do. It's truly. I'm so mad that he's not

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Speaker 2: on the Yankees. I know he didn't want to come here,

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Speaker 2: but I'm just so mad watching this guy, like thinking,

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Speaker 2: just the talent that he has and the fact that

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Speaker 2: he's lived up. He is being paid what's this contract,

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Speaker 2: like six hundred million dollars and it's it's a steal.

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Speaker 1: So I think they've already made the money back on him,

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Speaker 1: is what I've heard exactly.

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Speaker 2: I mean, when you win a championship and an MVP

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Speaker 2: and now to be two yeah, it's worth. He's he's

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Speaker 2: worth at least a billion dollars, like one total. I

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Speaker 2: don't know if he's going to live up to that contract,

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Speaker 2: but Otani has been no doubt about it. That is

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Speaker 2: his biggest accomplishment that he makes that contract look like

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Speaker 2: a bargain.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you this about Sodo. He almost he

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Speaker 1: went forty to forty in year one. First of all,

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Speaker 1: that blows my mind that he had thirty eight stolen bases.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that he lived up to the contract

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Speaker 1: in year one because the Mets missed the playoffs? But

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Speaker 1: he had a great year.

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Speaker 2: I don't think you can judge this contract, especially with

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Speaker 2: the length of it and the fact they didn't make Paoff.

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Speaker 2: I don't think you can juge off one year. He

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Speaker 2: was great this year. But I don't think it's really

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Speaker 2: going to come down to is he going to get

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Speaker 2: the Mets a championship? That's what You don't bring this

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Speaker 2: guy in here so he can be like good, you

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Speaker 2: can get knocked out in the NLCS. You bring him

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Speaker 2: here to bring the Mets their first world championship in

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Speaker 2: what is going to be next year forty years, So

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Speaker 2: that is what it's going to come down to here obviously. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and he was great this year. His talent, we know

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Speaker 2: how good he can be. But yeah, I'm not ready

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Speaker 2: to say that it's going to be failure or this point.

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Speaker 2: It depends on the Mets postseason success and if he

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Speaker 2: plays a huge partner.

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Speaker 1: All right, So, Frankie, before we get back to the games,

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Speaker 1: before o'tany comes up, I want to go ahead and run

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Speaker 1: the ad from Square and then we'll be back in

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Speaker 1: about sixty as to watch the end of the game. Hopefully.

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Speaker 5: but also on me the consumer, because lord knows, I'm

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 4: And it's a quick it's a tap or on your

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Speaker 4: phone double click.

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Speaker 5: You can even insert your chip if you want to

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Speaker 5: swipe it do.

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Speaker 3: It's awesome.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's changed the game. You can go to Square

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Speaker 4: Get after an FT fan.

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Speaker 1: That is hot.

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Speaker 3: That is hot.

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Speaker 1: You know what kills me, Frankie is that AJ has

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Speaker 1: a bobblehead with himself with the blonde hair. I love that.

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Speaker 1: It's just to react. That is terrific.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, happy twentieth anniversary. Here for a j a

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Speaker 2: this yeah, coming up soon. Of the White Sox, that's

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Speaker 2: one I remember watching that. I remember seeing the famous

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Speaker 2: wild pitch against the Angels in game I think two

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Speaker 2: of that series after of course the Angels beat the Yankees.

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Speaker 2: I was a not a very memorable world series, but

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Speaker 2: I still remember a couple things like the percent of

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Speaker 2: home run, the Konerko Grand Slam, Jeff Blum hitting it

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Speaker 2: in the fourteenth inning, hitting the home running game three.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, congrats to AJ and the White Sox on

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Speaker 2: twenty years. I was thinking of Derek. They have to

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Speaker 2: walk a Tani here, right, you can't pitch.

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Speaker 1: Him, I mean the only way that No, you can't

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Speaker 1: pitch him. I was gonna say, if the guy gets

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Speaker 1: on first base, you can't put the tying run or

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Speaker 1: the winning run in scoring position. But I'd be tempted

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Speaker 1: to even do that because then maybe you get a

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Speaker 1: double playball at least, right, I mean, it's like, this

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Speaker 1: is gonna be interesting. This is gonna be one of

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Speaker 1: those all time interesting at bats if the runner gets

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Speaker 1: on first base, Like, why are they.

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Speaker 2: Gonna put the scary the scary thing about the Dodgers?

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Speaker 2: All right, you walk Otani? Who do you have up next?

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Speaker 2: Bets and Freeman? It's just it never It's like it's

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Speaker 2: like taking on the Dream Team in ninety two. It's

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Speaker 2: just like, oh we got Jordan, we got Magic, we

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Speaker 2: got Bird, we got Barkley, Like who do you guard here?

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Speaker 2: Who do you you got somebody guys to worry about?

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Speaker 1: Dude, I've been watching so many Michael Jordan highlights recently.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why, but like, there was just something

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Speaker 1: so beautiful about like that team, that game, like the

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Speaker 1: intensity that he played with. And it is now one

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Speaker 1: and two. I want Otani up so bad, you know

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Speaker 1: how bad? I want to, Oh, tony walk off home run.

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Speaker 1: That would be just awesome for baseball.

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Speaker 2: It would be also, I believe his ninth home run

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Speaker 2: of the postseason. That would put him second all time

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Speaker 2: behind Mendio rose Arena, who hit ten in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: So and you remember how insane he was in that playoffs.

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Speaker 2: He killed Yankees and the other Rays lost that in

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Speaker 2: six to the Dodgers. That was a weirder season.

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Speaker 1: But I remember playing MLB the Show one year and

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Speaker 1: I had a Nationals franchise. It might have been like

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Speaker 1: right after Bryce Harper came up, and I wanted to

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Speaker 1: I always pick a team other than the Yankees, because

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Speaker 1: you know, I like to rebuild a franchise. And I

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Speaker 1: remember I had Adam Dunn on the team and I

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Speaker 1: hit eleven home runs in the postseason, and I remember

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Speaker 1: thinking there's no way that would ever happen. I got

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Speaker 1: to turn the difficulty up. But here we are not

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Speaker 1: only will o' toanni possibly do it, but he's also

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Speaker 1: thrown like six shutout innings. You know, he's like, it's

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Speaker 1: it's insane, it's interest.

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Speaker 2: He might actually be we might be witnessing the greatest

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Speaker 2: baseball player to ever play the game. Like I think

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Speaker 2: it's insane to think about just the fact that he's

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Speaker 2: doing it in this time period, doing both so well,

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Speaker 2: and that he's doing it on the biggest stage the Angels.

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Speaker 2: Ardie Moreno should be embarrassed, he should be shunned, he

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Speaker 2: should be arrested for what this man wasted years of

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Speaker 2: this guy on the Angels and Trout too, what a

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Speaker 2: disgrace that is. But single Twani in the postseason, even

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Speaker 2: if you love the Dodgers, hit Dodgers, watching this guy

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Speaker 2: on the biggest stage possible deliver time and time again,

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Speaker 2: it's a sight to behold.

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Speaker 1: So we've got a voicemail somebody just called in. I

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Speaker 1: haven't listened to it yet, so you know, if it

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Speaker 1: ends up being full of swear words, sorry, but I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna play it because why not, Because it's eleven forty

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Speaker 1: one on a Monday night. So here we go whoever.

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Speaker 1: This mystery caller is so Derek.

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Speaker 3: I know you're watching the Dodgers and Blue Jay's game

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Speaker 3: live reaction. This is still Yankee stuff. I'm gonna be

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Speaker 3: quite honest, I think the Yankee fans are pretty crazy

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Speaker 3: to think to try to trade him in is like

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Speaker 3: a lot of suggestions would say that, whether it's Himmery Jones,

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Speaker 3: I truly believe in this kid. I think his potential

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Speaker 3: is way too big to give up on it so early.

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Speaker 3: His contact approach is incredible. He's going to be a

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Speaker 3: great leadoff hitter. I mean we've seen how he was

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Speaker 3: his leadoff hitter, especially in the Mets game where you

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Speaker 3: hit a home run. I think he has home run powers.

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Speaker 3: It's hard to show it when you're inconsistently playing, you're

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Speaker 3: not playing every day. I mean, you've said it best,

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Speaker 3: like baseball players need a sort of rhythm, you know,

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Speaker 3: they need to play every day. They need nowhere in

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Speaker 3: the lineup they're hitting. If you put Jason to me,

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Speaker 3: his leadoff, the entire season's gonna hit. Remember when he

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Speaker 3: came up, he had four home runs in his first

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Speaker 3: eight game before the injuries. I think it's gonna come

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Speaker 3: his defensive show with a winter ball game, and honestly,

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Speaker 3: he just has too much tools to be given up

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Speaker 3: on with the contact approach and speed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with a lot of the things that

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Speaker 1: guys said. What are your thoughts on Domingez Man? What

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Speaker 1: were your reactions to his first year? By the way walked?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they intentionally walked a smart move. Disappointed. I like

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Speaker 2: you and I we were just blown away by what

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Speaker 2: he did.

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Speaker 1: And that's small.

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Speaker 2: What was it a week that he was up in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three that we were hoping for more here

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Speaker 2: this season and just I mean, he had the full

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Speaker 2: home picked him off. That is unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: So I turned my head for a second. So was

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Speaker 1: he stealing? He? I guess he went to second and

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Speaker 1: he caught stealing and he popped off. He popped off

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Speaker 1: his seat. But we were just saying, Otani's really overrated

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Speaker 1: as a player, you know, I mean, he's never been good.

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Speaker 2: He put my Yikei hat on here. I'll put my

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Speaker 2: Yikei hat on here. If Aaron Judge did that, he'd

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Speaker 2: be ripped to shreds. Yeah, Am, I'll be Twitter do

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Speaker 2: what you would do it with Judge?

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, if this game goes extra innings, we're just

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Speaker 1: gonna call it a night because, uh, I got to

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Speaker 1: get to sleep. But this has been an all time

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Speaker 1: World Series game, so I'll wake up and find out

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Speaker 1: in the morning what happened. But Otani getting caught going

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Speaker 1: to second base just loses his balance a little bit

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Speaker 1: and he's clearly out. I mean they're looking at it

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Speaker 1: on the replay.

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Speaker 2: That is that is shocking. Can't believe you again make

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Speaker 2: a play like that. Yeah, oh my goodness, But you

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Speaker 2: know what, you still got bets with two outs. You

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Speaker 2: got bets here. This is not over again with this

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Speaker 2: Dodgers lineup and the last World Series game I told

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Speaker 2: you the last World Series game that I didn't stay

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Speaker 2: up for was twenty eighteen Game three, the one that

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Speaker 2: went eighteen innings, and I was doing a live stream

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Speaker 2: then and it was I just couldn't get there. I

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Speaker 2: fell asleep, like the fourteenth fifteenth.

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Speaker 1: Once you hit the did you fell asleep on the air?

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Speaker 2: No, I I was about to, and then I just like,

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Speaker 2: I can't do this anymore. But I really thought the

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Speaker 2: Dodgers were gonna win the series after that game. They

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Speaker 2: had all the momentum, then Mookie Bets at the huge

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Speaker 2: home running Game four, and then Boston just came, just

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Speaker 2: just Steve Pierce tied it up Devers at the single

398
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Speaker 2: or double was steep Pierce had a huge World Series,

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Speaker 2: sleep Piers to shut up out of nowhere, had a

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Speaker 2: huge postseason and never be seen again. But yeah, it

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Speaker 2: was last time I didn't stay for World Series. I'll

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Speaker 2: sta up for this one because I got not know

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Speaker 2: to do tomorrow. But uh yeah, this is this is excellent.

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Speaker 2: This is what you want if you're baseball. You want

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Speaker 2: great ertainment, you want legendary games. That's what you got here.

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Speaker 1: I'm having a good time watching this. Man. I wish

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Speaker 1: the Yankees were in it, but that's life, baby, that's

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Speaker 1: Do you think we do? You think we do?

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Speaker 2: You think we could have made this close? Do you

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Speaker 2: think we could have kept up with the Dodgers?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, man, it's hard to say. I think

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Speaker 1: both of these teams look like better teams than the Yankees, honestly,

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Speaker 1: if we're being if we're being honest, I think both

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Speaker 1: of these teams would have beat the Yankees. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the Blue Jays did beat the Yankees, obviously, they thumped us,

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Speaker 1: but I think the Dodgers are a better team too.

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Speaker 1: Yankees got some work to do.

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Speaker 2: It's crazy, That's that's it.

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Speaker 1: It makes a catch, all right. Well, extra innings, Frankie,

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Speaker 1: it was good catching up with you. We're gonna we're

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Speaker 1: gonna wrap it up here, everybody, enjoy the rest of

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Speaker 1: your game. And uh, you know this, this nice little night.

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Speaker 1: We we should do this tomorrow. We should do like,

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Speaker 1: we should do a little bit of a watch party.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we'll do the first few winnings or something rather

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Speaker 1: than a post game. What do you think.

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Speaker 2: Hey, I'm down for it. I'm all, I'm done for

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Speaker 2: whatever you want to do. Man, this is better love talking.

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Speaker 1: All right. So we're gonna go ahead and give out.

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Speaker 1: So we were gonna we were gonna give you guys

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Speaker 1: a really fun thing. So here was the belt winner.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't count, Alejandro Kirk.

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Speaker 2: They might not even win the game.

434
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna give it

435
00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:30,360
Speaker 1: to that little humunculous for his three run shot. And uh,

436
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,240
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, enjoy your night. And Frankie and I'll

437
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:34,960
Speaker 1: see you maybe tomorrow we'll do a little bit of

438
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,640
Speaker 1: a you know, few winning watch party. We'll talk, we'll

439
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 1: take some calls, so call in all that stuff and

440
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:40,640
Speaker 1: we'll see then