WEBVTT - Managing Elective Medical Procedures 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.720 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.320 Jason Kelly. We're right here every day bringing you the 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:11.160 latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.280 all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors, 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.439 and of course Carol that's part of a team of 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.439 twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts more than a hundred 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.280 and twenty countries and Jason. You can download Bloomberg Business 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.239 Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, bl Bloomberg dot com. You can 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.640 also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.560 on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:36.520 by searching Bloomberg Global News. You are listening to Bloomberg 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:39.400 Business Week. Jason Kelly and Alex Steel here with you 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:42.720 on a Wednesday afternoon. So I'm really happy to have 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:46.320 back with this. Alyssa Wrap, CEO of Surgical Solutions, join 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:50.519 us on the phone from Deerfield, Illinois, and Alyssa has 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:54.160 been great at providing us Alex with a real view 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:58.440 of the front lines of this crisis because she's got 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.440 more than two hundred employee who were working there in 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:04.560 hospitals and health facilities less are really nice to have 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:07.160 you back with us, Jason and Alex. Great to be 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:09.720 with you today. Thanks for having me all right, So, 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.160 I feel like the world has actually gotten worse since 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:15.720 the last time we talked, certainly a lot of places 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:19.800 across the United States. How worried are you, especially given 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:25.720 the window that you have in terms of this healthcare 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:30.559 system now being stretched to its capacity. So I think 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:34.320 that I'm worried, isn't the word? Perhaps concerned is better, 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:37.000 only because I've seen our people on the front lines 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:41.560 be as excellent, dedicated, and prepared as we would want 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:44.360 them to be. The only benefit of time marching on 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:47.680 as people are leveraging their experience and insight as frontline 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:50.360 healthcare workers in coping with it. So are people and 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:53.160 those I hear about are doing a great job. But 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:55.960 my concern is that the systems themselves are going to 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:59.640 be increasingly taxed. And listen, we've had more incidences of 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:01.760 COVID IT on our own team in Houston in the 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:03.920 last three weeks then we did in New York City 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:07.000 at the peak of the first search. So it's because 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:11.080 of this snap, you know, rubber band effect of reopening 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:14.120 without all the social distancing and masks in place. We 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:16.760 unfortunately know that weather doesn't play as much of a 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.959 role as we had hoped in dampening the virus transmissions. 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:24.359 So because of everything going on, and without being overly political, 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:26.120 we knew that there were mass gatherings due to the 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:29.880 civil unrest. So with all of that closed down behavior 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:35.760 than fast reopening and then uneven state by state responses, 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:39.400 we're seeing many, many spikes and I expect those to 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:42.160 continue for the next six months. Can I ask the 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:46.360 sensitive question as to why the Sun Belt states weren't 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:51.079 better prepared even if they reopened quote unquote the wrong time. 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:53.360 It's like, we knew that this was going to play 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:55.480 out in New York and March, so I wonder, like, 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:59.200 why isn't there a stockpil of stuff, Alex. I think 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:01.240 it's a great question, and I don't have the perfect 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:03.200 answer for you. What I can say is I think 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:07.240 that the cases were concentrated in New York. There was 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:11.400 such a intense focus by the city, the state, and 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:16.080 the healthcare hospitals and providers there to solve the crisis 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:19.280 that they did the classic Bell curve effect, And because 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:21.000 the peak of the curve was so much lower in 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:23.920 the Sunbelt States. I think they hoped, I think we 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:26.680 all hoped, frankly, that they would just avert disaster and 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:31.040 never get to that same peak point local maximum. And unfortunately, 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.079 no one is this. This disease doesn't discriminate. No one 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:38.240 is immune. So when they thought they had averted danger 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:41.160 and then unfortunately dangerous struck they were they thought they 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.160 were on the back nine and and no one is, 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:46.560 unfortunately yet. And so Alyssa, you know, one of the 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:48.600 things that we've talked with you about before is this 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:53.840 notion of the the holistic system in some ways. And 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:58.360 while so many resources have been dedicated, obviously to treating 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:01.880 COVID patients, there's a whole system out there and a 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:06.640 whole population out there that has needs to go beyond COVID, 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:11.520 some of which surgeries have been put off. Um, where 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.760 are we in in that calculus right now? And what 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:17.680 are you seeing when you talk to your folks, So 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:20.760 that that I feel more optimistic about. Once people started 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:24.680 rescheduling elective procedures, they started scheduling fast and furiously, and 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:27.920 I think that, um, that's really important for preventative health. 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:31.600 I get as as afraid about what the health care affects, 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.279 the health effects and negative health effects I should say, 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:38.320 of not being seen and treated for preventative measures, now 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:40.599 what those will be in six, twelve, eighteen months. So 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:43.360 I'm glad to see that our volumes were back up 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:47.279 to eight of historic levels for elective surgeries, for example 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:52.080 in places like Texas and Tennessee UM in June. Obviously, 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:54.880 the next round of questions is where will they stabilize there? 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:57.160 Given what's going on, they'll probably dip again and then 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:01.360 hopefully come back. So I feel slightly optimistic actually about 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:04.440 people's willingness to get back in there and get seen 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:07.640 for what was considered quote unquote elective. What I am 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.719 concerned about on a on a macro level is how 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:14.960 these hospitals that typically operate at three percent margins in 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:18.000 the best case scenarios, are going to weather the next 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:20.400 wave of the financial storm. And as self serving as 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:22.000 it is to say, I think that even if I 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:24.960 were looking at arm's length, you want this notion of 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:27.839 an outsourcing partner like Surgical Solutions and many others where 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:30.919 they can really risk share economically and in terms of 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:34.400 human capital and capital equipment, etcetera. If I were if 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.039 I could wave a wand it's that many hospital systems 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:39.960 would enter into those kind of risk sharing partnership strategic 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:44.159 partnerships so they could have another entity or team of 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:46.880 people helping them whether the next storms, because unfortunately this 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:50.799 one isn't over. So I mean, aside from the obvious 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:54.240 linkage with with with surgical solutions, like what are some 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:56.960 other good options? Because I have to wonder like which 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:59.120 is it? Is it a demand or supply issue? Like 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:00.960 if all these people come back, and will you have 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:03.560 the actual capacity, Like I have to have a procedure 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.520 done and I had to wait like two months and 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.480 I was like on the list. No totally. Um. I 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:11.680 think that it's both right and I think that the 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:14.640 degree to which the federal government is doing creative things 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:18.279 like making total joint procedures, those are orthopedic procedures where 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:21.720 you would have something restorative, corrective and me a hip, etcetera. 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:24.360 Because they agreed that they're now going to be reimbursed 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:27.400 through ambulatory surgery centers in and out where you can 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:28.520 go in and out in a day and you have 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:30.680 to be there less time, which is better for you 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:33.360 and better for them. But but the providers will still 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:36.720 be reimburses a similar way. I think the degree to 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:38.479 which we can make it easier for people to have 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.960 shorter hospital stays and and do more you know, ambilatory 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:43.960 surgery center work, that will be better for everyone. I 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:45.599 think that could be a system shift that is a 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:47.720 result of this. And needless to say, this isn't an 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:50.760 original idea to me, but tell the medicine is your friend. Listen, 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:53.240 if my kids have to go get a physical before 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:54.880 getting back to school in the fall, I want that 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:56.440 to be live. But if one of them has a 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:59.520 you know, a sore throat or an alley in their 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:01.680 ear to I really want to take them in right now. No, 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:04.880 if pddriction could see them, that would be a great pla. Yeah, 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:08.040 just grab the iPhone for sure. Alright, Alyssa Rap, CEO 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:10.120 of Surgical Coal Solutions. Great to have you back with us. 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:14.040 Really appreciate your time joining us on the phone from Deerfield, Illinois. Well, 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:17.960 I believe the technical term alex is baller alert. We 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:20.000 got a couple of guys coming on next to talk 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:23.760 about a great story, a really important story as well. 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:25.640 We haven't talked to Sean Donna in a while I've 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:27.800 missed him, I follow him on Twitter, so I feel 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:31.560 like I'm keeping up. Senior trade and globalization reporter for Bloomberg. 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.280 He's joining us on the phone from Maine. Good for him. 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:38.520 Joel Weber, editor of Bloomberg Business Week. He's in Massachusetts. 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:42.680 So Joel, this is a really important story and one 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:47.160 that I feel like provide some much needed context about 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:53.000 where we are in the economic aspect of this crisis. Yeah. 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:56.480 So a couple of weeks slash months ago, now, Sean 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:59.440 was like, you know, UM based in DC, and I 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:02.960 really to get out of DC and I get into uh, 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:05.400 you know, the heart of America and see what how 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:11.120 this crisis is really unfolding for for normal people. And 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:13.880 Cleveland ended up being one of the places UM that 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:17.560 he's gone, and the story that he published from there, 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:22.040 I thought was a really interesting look at um, you know, 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:28.440 community that's really uh grasping for any sort of relief, 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:32.240 and it gives UM a sense of how, you know, 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:37.640 two trillion dollar uh you know kind of effort to 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:42.160 to kind of you know make the rescue um you 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:46.600 know from Congress with the Cares Act, be something that 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:49.960 was you know, rooted in helping things, but it actually 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:52.920 has left a lot of people in the cold. And 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:54.880 I think that was what Sean was really able to 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:58.040 find in Cleveland. And and Sean, you know what, what 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:00.719 what jumped out at you because you know, this is 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:02.839 a city where there's a river that divides the east 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:05.800 and west, and people on the east side, especially these 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:09.240 are black neighborhoods, they're really feeling it. Yeah. I mean, 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:10.800 like you said, a couple of months ago, I just 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:13.839 was looking through the data and I just happened to 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:18.079 see the the unemployment data for for Cleveland, for the 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:21.480 metro area, and what it happened in Cleveland in April 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:25.000 was that literally of the workers in the city had 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.800 lost their jobs in a matter of weights. You had 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.280 an unemployment rate that had gone from a little above 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.560 three percent to twenty three percent just in weeks. And 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:37.760 most of those people were lower income people. And I 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:40.640 started thinking, I need to go find out what's happening 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:43.240 and if they're getting the help that that they need, 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:44.880 and all the stuff that people are talking about in 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.280 Washington in terms of this enormous and this really is 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:50.920 a pretty unprecedented fiscal stimulus coming out of Washington, when 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:52.720 that's actually getting to the people who you did on 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:55.000 the ground. And once you get to Cleveland, what you 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.960 discover is that there is this divide that happens with 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:00.840 the Cuyahoga River UH. On the east side of it, 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:04.920 you've predominantly black neighborhoods, which really for decades now has 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:09.800 been left behind by the economy, and this time around 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.520 they're just not getting the help in the same way 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:16.400 that UH neighborhoods predominantly white neighborhoods the west of the 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:19.719 river are. And that's a story about you. We'll talking 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:23.680 about race in America and racial incites, and so we're here. 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:27.960 It is right now happening again in terms of rescue 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:30.680 being rolled out by the government. If you go to 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:33.760 the east side of Cleveland today, you will find lots 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:37.040 of people who aren't seeing to help that lots of 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:41.520 other people in America are. Yeah, it's really amazing, amazing reporting. 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:44.600 I urge all of you to to to listen to it, 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:46.920 to look at it, to read it. So I guess 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:50.600 my problem is is that we know that they messed 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.080 up in that respect, and now we're looking at another 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:57.280 stimulus Supposedly maybe we're gonna get before August ten, and 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:59.560 I'm wondering if we're ever going to be able to 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.240 the things that we did to them help, especially when 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:07.120 you have the extra money for unemployment ending July one. 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:11.040 I mean, how do we right the ship? Yeah? No, absolutely, 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.920 so that the first thing is that extra unemployment. There's 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:16.080 no doubt that next for six hundred dollars a week 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:18.960 that was included. That cares that that's important for the ground, 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.800 for people on the ground on the east side of Cleveland. 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:25.319 But what's also important and in talking in work reporting 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.480 the story, I talked to Rob Portman, the Republican Senator 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:31.160 at Shore Ground the Democratic Senate, two people who really 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:34.640 were heavily involved in a cool point together the Cares out, 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:36.960 and they said, they really want to get something in 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:41.280 this next thing that's much more targeted at a block 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.800 on businesses and minority on businesses, and they really find 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:47.760 some way to get to these people who are who 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:50.000 are being left out because they are being left out 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:53.160 and they recognize that. And so we'll have to wait 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:57.120 and see if that happens. But you know, there's there's 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:00.880 a lot of neat out there. Sean Um, I want 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:04.400 to talk about some of the characters that you got 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:06.160 to meet um on the east side of the river, 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:09.720 especially a pastor in a church twitch. What are those 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:13.480 experiences like. Yeah, so one of the people I ran 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:17.040 into on in my reporting with Miriam Scott. And Miriam 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:20.160 is a really impressive woman. She's a corrections officer. She 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.240 works overnight shifts one of the play at huge county 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.840 detention centers. UH and during the day she runs the 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:29.520 First Love Outreach and Ministries, which is a tiny church 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:33.840 UM in a part of Cleveland that literally is is 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:38.320 called the Forgotten Triangle UM and it is a part 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:42.160 of Cleveland where possible people live under the poverty line. 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:45.280 Three quarters of the children in the episode live under 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.079 the U S Povy line. She's just a stunning UH 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:52.400 statistics and Miriam stop is. She's been running this turn 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:56.240 on a Sea spring basically on three hundred, one hundred 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.040 dollars a week and ties and she can't hold in 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:02.199 person services anymore, so that money's disappeared. She tried to 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.679 go after a UH some pros some money from the 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.520 from the sederal government for faith based education, but she 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:12.320 discovered that because she's a volunteer, she and because there's 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.080 no paywall associated with the pods. She couldn't get any help. 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:19.120 And she's not unemployed. She's working on she's working a job. 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:22.640 She's looking overnight shift as a corrective officer. Uh. And 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:25.440 she's at the same time she's kind of scraping it 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:29.120 together and she is feeding. The last Saturday, she said 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:33.200 over six hundred people one Saturday of Junion, she gave 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:37.280 out twenty thousand towns of food, which is more food 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:40.560 almost than she gave out in all of twenty nineteenons 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:43.560 for the church. She's done incredibly hard work and she's 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:46.320 doing it with no help from the government. And it's 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.560 you know these times of characters that run into on 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:52.480 the east side of Cleveland. We're working really hard to 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.920 help the communities to get through this crisis, and they're 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:58.600 doing it with very little help to no help from 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.400 from the sederal government. You look at the stimulus that's 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:03.760 going on the economy, you think about the people who 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:08.080 serves and how vulnerable they are, and that is clearly 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:11.439 one part of the economy that should be getting more 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:16.040 and just isn't. It just isn't. And a really nice 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:19.240 piece of reporting is Alex pointed out Shawn congratulations on 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:20.800 this story. It's a must re check it out at 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:23.520 Bloomberg dot com, on the Bloomberg terminal, or in the 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.920 upcoming edition of Bloomberg business Week. That's Sean Donn, and 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:31.280 senior trade reporter who left Washington to do some great 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:34.840 reporting there in Cleveland. Our thanks as well to Joel Webber, 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:37.920 the editor of Bloomberg Business Week. All right, let's do 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:40.680 a little Business Week economics, because when it comes to 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:46.040 reopening the economy in any meaningful way, Alex, I think 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.400 you and I can one agree on this, both being 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:53.280 parents schools, they have to be reopened for the economy 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:57.400 to be fully reopened. Please please not even economy for 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.520 my own sandy and my husband's sanity, and then also 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:04.400 for the economy. Yes, so in that order. Emily Austar 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:08.520 she wrote a terrific piece for Bloomberg Opinion about this 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:12.560 professor of economics at Brown University and a Bloomberg Opinion columnists. 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:14.960 As I mentioned, she joins us on the phone from Providence. 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:19.320 All right, Emily, you gave voice and and maybe more importantly, 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.960 gave some solutions to the problem that I think we 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:28.240 are all obsessively thinking about. Tell us what you think 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.120 and what you found is you sort of put pen 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.160 to paper here. Yeah, So what I was what I 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:35.280 was writing about was just how we're going to think 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:38.400 about working under the constraints that we seem to be 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:41.240 facing for the fall. So, you know, like you, I 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.160 would very much like us all to be back in 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:45.960 person if we can do that. Bafely, it doesn't seem 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.080 like school district A necessarily gonna be there. And so 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:51.200 I think, particularly in New York, you guys are not 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:53.440 going to be in uh in school every day. And 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.040 so I was thinking a little bit about different solutions 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:58.440 people that have ranging from you know, the kind of 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:00.680 home schooling that we've all been doing for this entire 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.440 time period, two kind of different market based solutions. So 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:06.760 should we all hire a governess like the one percent? 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.960 Or should we should we think about intermediate and can 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:12.880 be tid with other families, and just trying to give 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.400 people some ideas for for how to move forward in 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.880 what's obviously an incredibly challenging set up. Well, what I 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.720 thought was interesting in the piece is that, um, a 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:23.840 lot of it is for those one per centers, Like 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:25.880 you said, the governance, there's also to do it yourself, 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:29.240 which homeschooling, which would be really bad my household. But 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.040 then you got into different options like a babysitter, coop 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:34.320 or market based solutions. Can you take us through that 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:36.560 where it is maybe more accessible to a broad variety 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.440 of people. Yeah, So I think that the two things 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:42.000 there were sort of one talking about like, let's say 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.480 your kid is in school for two days a week, uh, 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:46.680 with a bunch of other kids in their class, UM, 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:52.240 and there you could think about hiring a babysitter along 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:54.120 with some other kids in the class, so you know, 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:58.440 rotating the kids around to your different houses or apartments, um, 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:02.960 with some kind of supervision. Obviously, if you did that 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:05.800 with six families, you know, that's six one six of 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.560 the cost of doing it doing on your on your 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:11.040 own UM. And then there are also you know, my 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:13.119 guess is I'm actually just talking to somebody in l 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:15.280 A this morning runs and after school program and they're 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:18.240 going to be running a lot of programming for kids 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:21.480 who are would otherwise be in school. So there certainly 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:23.800 will be some art market based solutions for this where 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.359 your kids can be out of the house. Uh. Those 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:28.200 aren't going to be challenging in other ways, I think 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:31.040 and for that you're talking about like the j c 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:32.399 C s and the y m c A s the 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.440 world right, Yeah, exactly why I'm j c C is 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.160 all those kind of things. And so as you look 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:41.080 across the country, I guess one of the other challenges here, 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:46.480 Emily is that even within a state like New York, 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:51.919 you're going to have different decisions being made sort of 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:56.680 region by region, much less you know, across the country. Uh, 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:01.080 is it feasible to think about, especially from an economic perspective, 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:05.120 that some regions of the country and even some subregions 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.960 of a state may be able to essentially thrive economically 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:14.240 while others may be left behind owing to closures and whatnot. Yeah, 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:15.880 I mean, I think this is part of what what's 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.520 sort of been very odd about the economics of this 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:20.640 is just the idea that, you know, we don't think 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:23.040 of the US as quite so segmented, and yet all 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:25.320 of a sudden, you know, in this world, like the 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.120 situation in Rhode Island is totally different from the situation 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:30.680 in Texas, or from Florida, or from or from New York. 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:33.080 And I think that's going to mean that everybody's got 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.639 to have got to have different solutions, but it is 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:37.600 also going to mean that there's a tremendous amount of 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:42.040 inequality across places in how much your economy is gonna 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:44.239 be able to reopen. I mean, as you said, you know, 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:48.240 school reopenings are kind of a key to economic reopening, 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:50.920 and places where school is fully remote are going to 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:54.359 have which fundamentally very different trajectory than places where school 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:56.640 is in is in person. If the schools can thence 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:59.040 to stay open, I think the hardest thing is going 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:00.920 to be if they open and they close again. That's 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.040 going to be even even more challenging to adapt to. 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:05.280 What I'm trying to get a handle on is like 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.480 we we can talk for years about how horrible it 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:10.240 is to have kids not in school on so many 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:13.399 different levels, and I just can't quite get a read on, 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:17.120 like financially what we need to pump into each school 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.679 to get them reopened safely and anecdotally. I have a 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:23.080 five year old. Her kindergarten class had twenty six kids 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:26.200 in a five hundred, six hundred square foot room, so 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:28.560 already like that class would have to be broken up 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:32.640 into three classes like there, so there's different classrooms. Um, 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.760 do we have a read on that yet. No. What 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:38.520 I actually think this is one of the biggest challenges 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.880 to making progress on this is that people have different ideas. 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:43.840 You know, I have some ideas, people have some some 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:47.560 other ideas, different kinds of staffing models, space models. But 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:50.360 it's clear all of these things are going to take resources. 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:52.479 But I don't think we've had a lot of uh, 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:54.639 We've made a lot of efforts to like write down 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:57.560 what is the budget? Um, you know, what different people 0:19:57.600 --> 0:19:59.440 do we need? How many of them do we need? 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:01.560 Do we need two? And more? If your kids class 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:03.840 needs to be in three different in three different classrooms, 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:06.080 do we need three you know, three teachers? What's the 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:07.440 space we're going to use for that? How are we 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:10.080 going to afford that afford that space? I think part 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:11.639 of the problem is once we read that down, the 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:14.919 answer will be, you know, this is incredibly expensive. But 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:17.439 I also think until we do that, we won't we 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:19.520 won't know, you know, what are the pieces that are 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:23.000 the most expensive and what can we what can we do? 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:26.200 So I would really like to see more concrete numbers 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:28.719 put to this. All right, Emily Austin, We're gonna leave 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:32.560 it there. Professor of Economics at Brown University Blueberg opinion columnists. 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:35.920 Her column parents Don't have to panic over part times school. 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:38.199 It was one of the most read columns on the 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:41.320 Bluemberg continues to get a ton of readership. It has 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:44.320 spun around the web so many times, Alex, for all 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:46.440 the obvious reasons, because people like you and me are 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:51.040 trying to figure this out, both, as you said, for 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:54.439 our own sanity, for the sake of the economy, for 0:20:54.520 --> 0:21:01.320 the sake of our humanity. You know, we think about 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:04.480 you know, and I have the the interesting perspective of 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:08.720