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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm

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Speaker 1: Jason Kelly. We're right here every day bringing you the

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Speaker 1: latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics,

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Speaker 1: all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors,

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Speaker 1: and of course Carol that's part of a team of

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Speaker 1: twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts more than a hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty countries and Jason. You can download Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, bl Bloomberg dot com. You can

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Speaker 1: also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern

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Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube

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Speaker 1: by searching Bloomberg Global News. You are listening to Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business Week. Jason Kelly and Alex Steel here with you

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Speaker 1: on a Wednesday afternoon. So I'm really happy to have

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Speaker 1: back with this. Alyssa Wrap, CEO of Surgical Solutions, join

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Speaker 1: us on the phone from Deerfield, Illinois, and Alyssa has

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Speaker 1: been great at providing us Alex with a real view

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Speaker 1: of the front lines of this crisis because she's got

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Speaker 1: more than two hundred employee who were working there in

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Speaker 1: hospitals and health facilities less are really nice to have

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Speaker 1: you back with us, Jason and Alex. Great to be

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Speaker 1: with you today. Thanks for having me all right, So,

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Speaker 1: I feel like the world has actually gotten worse since

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Speaker 1: the last time we talked, certainly a lot of places

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Speaker 1: across the United States. How worried are you, especially given

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Speaker 1: the window that you have in terms of this healthcare

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Speaker 1: system now being stretched to its capacity. So I think

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Speaker 1: that I'm worried, isn't the word? Perhaps concerned is better,

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Speaker 1: only because I've seen our people on the front lines

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Speaker 1: be as excellent, dedicated, and prepared as we would want

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Speaker 1: them to be. The only benefit of time marching on

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Speaker 1: as people are leveraging their experience and insight as frontline

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Speaker 1: healthcare workers in coping with it. So are people and

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Speaker 1: those I hear about are doing a great job. But

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Speaker 1: my concern is that the systems themselves are going to

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Speaker 1: be increasingly taxed. And listen, we've had more incidences of

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Speaker 1: COVID IT on our own team in Houston in the

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Speaker 1: last three weeks then we did in New York City

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Speaker 1: at the peak of the first search. So it's because

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Speaker 1: of this snap, you know, rubber band effect of reopening

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Speaker 1: without all the social distancing and masks in place. We

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Speaker 1: unfortunately know that weather doesn't play as much of a

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Speaker 1: role as we had hoped in dampening the virus transmissions.

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Speaker 1: So because of everything going on, and without being overly political,

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Speaker 1: we knew that there were mass gatherings due to the

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Speaker 1: civil unrest. So with all of that closed down behavior

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Speaker 1: than fast reopening and then uneven state by state responses,

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Speaker 1: we're seeing many, many spikes and I expect those to

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Speaker 1: continue for the next six months. Can I ask the

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Speaker 1: sensitive question as to why the Sun Belt states weren't

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Speaker 1: better prepared even if they reopened quote unquote the wrong time.

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Speaker 1: It's like, we knew that this was going to play

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Speaker 1: out in New York and March, so I wonder, like,

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Speaker 1: why isn't there a stockpil of stuff, Alex. I think

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Speaker 1: it's a great question, and I don't have the perfect

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Speaker 1: answer for you. What I can say is I think

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Speaker 1: that the cases were concentrated in New York. There was

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Speaker 1: such a intense focus by the city, the state, and

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Speaker 1: the healthcare hospitals and providers there to solve the crisis

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Speaker 1: that they did the classic Bell curve effect, And because

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Speaker 1: the peak of the curve was so much lower in

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Speaker 1: the Sunbelt States. I think they hoped, I think we

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Speaker 1: all hoped, frankly, that they would just avert disaster and

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Speaker 1: never get to that same peak point local maximum. And unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: no one is this. This disease doesn't discriminate. No one

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Speaker 1: is immune. So when they thought they had averted danger

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Speaker 1: and then unfortunately dangerous struck they were they thought they

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Speaker 1: were on the back nine and and no one is,

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Speaker 1: unfortunately yet. And so Alyssa, you know, one of the

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Speaker 1: things that we've talked with you about before is this

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Speaker 1: notion of the the holistic system in some ways. And

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Speaker 1: while so many resources have been dedicated, obviously to treating

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Speaker 1: COVID patients, there's a whole system out there and a

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Speaker 1: whole population out there that has needs to go beyond COVID,

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Speaker 1: some of which surgeries have been put off. Um, where

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Speaker 1: are we in in that calculus right now? And what

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Speaker 1: are you seeing when you talk to your folks, So

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Speaker 1: that that I feel more optimistic about. Once people started

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Speaker 1: rescheduling elective procedures, they started scheduling fast and furiously, and

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Speaker 1: I think that, um, that's really important for preventative health.

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Speaker 1: I get as as afraid about what the health care affects,

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Speaker 1: the health effects and negative health effects I should say,

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Speaker 1: of not being seen and treated for preventative measures, now

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Speaker 1: what those will be in six, twelve, eighteen months. So

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Speaker 1: I'm glad to see that our volumes were back up

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Speaker 1: to eight of historic levels for elective surgeries, for example

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Speaker 1: in places like Texas and Tennessee UM in June. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: the next round of questions is where will they stabilize there?

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Speaker 1: Given what's going on, they'll probably dip again and then

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Speaker 1: hopefully come back. So I feel slightly optimistic actually about

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Speaker 1: people's willingness to get back in there and get seen

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Speaker 1: for what was considered quote unquote elective. What I am

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Speaker 1: concerned about on a on a macro level is how

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Speaker 1: these hospitals that typically operate at three percent margins in

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Speaker 1: the best case scenarios, are going to weather the next

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Speaker 1: wave of the financial storm. And as self serving as

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Speaker 1: it is to say, I think that even if I

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Speaker 1: were looking at arm's length, you want this notion of

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Speaker 1: an outsourcing partner like Surgical Solutions and many others where

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Speaker 1: they can really risk share economically and in terms of

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Speaker 1: human capital and capital equipment, etcetera. If I were if

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Speaker 1: I could wave a wand it's that many hospital systems

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Speaker 1: would enter into those kind of risk sharing partnership strategic

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Speaker 1: partnerships so they could have another entity or team of

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Speaker 1: people helping them whether the next storms, because unfortunately this

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Speaker 1: one isn't over. So I mean, aside from the obvious

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Speaker 1: linkage with with with surgical solutions, like what are some

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Speaker 1: other good options? Because I have to wonder like which

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Speaker 1: is it? Is it a demand or supply issue? Like

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Speaker 1: if all these people come back, and will you have

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Speaker 1: the actual capacity, Like I have to have a procedure

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Speaker 1: done and I had to wait like two months and

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Speaker 1: I was like on the list. No totally. Um. I

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Speaker 1: think that it's both right and I think that the

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Speaker 1: degree to which the federal government is doing creative things

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Speaker 1: like making total joint procedures, those are orthopedic procedures where

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Speaker 1: you would have something restorative, corrective and me a hip, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: Because they agreed that they're now going to be reimbursed

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Speaker 1: through ambulatory surgery centers in and out where you can

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Speaker 1: go in and out in a day and you have

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Speaker 1: to be there less time, which is better for you

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Speaker 1: and better for them. But but the providers will still

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Speaker 1: be reimburses a similar way. I think the degree to

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Speaker 1: which we can make it easier for people to have

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Speaker 1: shorter hospital stays and and do more you know, ambilatory

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Speaker 1: surgery center work, that will be better for everyone. I

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Speaker 1: think that could be a system shift that is a

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Speaker 1: result of this. And needless to say, this isn't an

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Speaker 1: original idea to me, but tell the medicine is your friend. Listen,

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Speaker 1: if my kids have to go get a physical before

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Speaker 1: getting back to school in the fall, I want that

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Speaker 1: to be live. But if one of them has a

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Speaker 1: you know, a sore throat or an alley in their

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Speaker 1: ear to I really want to take them in right now. No,

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Speaker 1: if pddriction could see them, that would be a great pla. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: just grab the iPhone for sure. Alright, Alyssa Rap, CEO

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Speaker 1: of Surgical Coal Solutions. Great to have you back with us.

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Speaker 1: Really appreciate your time joining us on the phone from Deerfield, Illinois. Well,

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Speaker 1: I believe the technical term alex is baller alert. We

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Speaker 1: got a couple of guys coming on next to talk

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Speaker 1: about a great story, a really important story as well.

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Speaker 1: We haven't talked to Sean Donna in a while I've

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Speaker 1: missed him, I follow him on Twitter, so I feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm keeping up. Senior trade and globalization reporter for Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: He's joining us on the phone from Maine. Good for him.

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Speaker 1: Joel Weber, editor of Bloomberg Business Week. He's in Massachusetts.

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Speaker 1: So Joel, this is a really important story and one

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Speaker 1: that I feel like provide some much needed context about

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Speaker 1: where we are in the economic aspect of this crisis. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So a couple of weeks slash months ago, now, Sean

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Speaker 1: was like, you know, UM based in DC, and I

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Speaker 1: really to get out of DC and I get into uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, the heart of America and see what how

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Speaker 1: this crisis is really unfolding for for normal people. And

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Speaker 1: Cleveland ended up being one of the places UM that

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Speaker 1: he's gone, and the story that he published from there,

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Speaker 1: I thought was a really interesting look at um, you know,

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Speaker 1: community that's really uh grasping for any sort of relief,

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Speaker 1: and it gives UM a sense of how, you know,

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Speaker 1: two trillion dollar uh you know kind of effort to

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Speaker 1: to kind of you know make the rescue um you

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Speaker 1: know from Congress with the Cares Act, be something that

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Speaker 1: was you know, rooted in helping things, but it actually

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Speaker 1: has left a lot of people in the cold. And

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Speaker 1: I think that was what Sean was really able to

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Speaker 1: find in Cleveland. And and Sean, you know what, what

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Speaker 1: what jumped out at you because you know, this is

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Speaker 1: a city where there's a river that divides the east

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Speaker 1: and west, and people on the east side, especially these

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Speaker 1: are black neighborhoods, they're really feeling it. Yeah. I mean,

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Speaker 1: like you said, a couple of months ago, I just

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Speaker 1: was looking through the data and I just happened to

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Speaker 1: see the the unemployment data for for Cleveland, for the

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Speaker 1: metro area, and what it happened in Cleveland in April

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Speaker 1: was that literally of the workers in the city had

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Speaker 1: lost their jobs in a matter of weights. You had

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Speaker 1: an unemployment rate that had gone from a little above

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Speaker 1: three percent to twenty three percent just in weeks. And

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Speaker 1: most of those people were lower income people. And I

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Speaker 1: started thinking, I need to go find out what's happening

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Speaker 1: and if they're getting the help that that they need,

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Speaker 1: and all the stuff that people are talking about in

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Speaker 1: Washington in terms of this enormous and this really is

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Speaker 1: a pretty unprecedented fiscal stimulus coming out of Washington, when

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Speaker 1: that's actually getting to the people who you did on

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Speaker 1: the ground. And once you get to Cleveland, what you

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Speaker 1: discover is that there is this divide that happens with

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Speaker 1: the Cuyahoga River UH. On the east side of it,

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Speaker 1: you've predominantly black neighborhoods, which really for decades now has

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Speaker 1: been left behind by the economy, and this time around

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Speaker 1: they're just not getting the help in the same way

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Speaker 1: that UH neighborhoods predominantly white neighborhoods the west of the

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Speaker 1: river are. And that's a story about you. We'll talking

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Speaker 1: about race in America and racial incites, and so we're here.

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Speaker 1: It is right now happening again in terms of rescue

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Speaker 1: being rolled out by the government. If you go to

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Speaker 1: the east side of Cleveland today, you will find lots

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Speaker 1: of people who aren't seeing to help that lots of

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Speaker 1: other people in America are. Yeah, it's really amazing, amazing reporting.

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Speaker 1: I urge all of you to to to listen to it,

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Speaker 1: to look at it, to read it. So I guess

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Speaker 1: my problem is is that we know that they messed

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Speaker 1: up in that respect, and now we're looking at another

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Speaker 1: stimulus Supposedly maybe we're gonna get before August ten, and

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering if we're ever going to be able to

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Speaker 1: the things that we did to them help, especially when

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Speaker 1: you have the extra money for unemployment ending July one.

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Speaker 1: I mean, how do we right the ship? Yeah? No, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: so that the first thing is that extra unemployment. There's

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Speaker 1: no doubt that next for six hundred dollars a week

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Speaker 1: that was included. That cares that that's important for the ground,

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Speaker 1: for people on the ground on the east side of Cleveland.

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Speaker 1: But what's also important and in talking in work reporting

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Speaker 1: the story, I talked to Rob Portman, the Republican Senator

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Speaker 1: at Shore Ground the Democratic Senate, two people who really

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Speaker 1: were heavily involved in a cool point together the Cares out,

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Speaker 1: and they said, they really want to get something in

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Speaker 1: this next thing that's much more targeted at a block

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Speaker 1: some way to get to these people who are who

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Speaker 1: are being left out because they are being left out

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Speaker 1: and they recognize that. And so we'll have to wait

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Speaker 1: and see if that happens. But you know, there's there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of neat out there. Sean Um, I want

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Speaker 1: to talk about some of the characters that you got

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Speaker 1: to meet um on the east side of the river,

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Speaker 1: especially a pastor in a church twitch. What are those

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Speaker 1: experiences like. Yeah, so one of the people I ran

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Speaker 1: into on in my reporting with Miriam Scott. And Miriam

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Speaker 1: is a really impressive woman. She's a corrections officer. She

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Speaker 1: works overnight shifts one of the play at huge county

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Speaker 1: detention centers. UH and during the day she runs the

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Speaker 1: First Love Outreach and Ministries, which is a tiny church

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Speaker 1: UM in a part of Cleveland that literally is is

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Speaker 1: called the Forgotten Triangle UM and it is a part

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Speaker 1: of Cleveland where possible people live under the poverty line.

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Speaker 1: Three quarters of the children in the episode live under

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Speaker 1: the U S Povy line. She's just a stunning UH

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Speaker 1: statistics and Miriam stop is. She's been running this turn

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Speaker 1: on a Sea spring basically on three hundred, one hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars a week and ties and she can't hold in

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Speaker 1: person services anymore, so that money's disappeared. She tried to

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Speaker 1: go after a UH some pros some money from the

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Speaker 1: from the sederal government for faith based education, but she

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Speaker 1: discovered that because she's a volunteer, she and because there's

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Speaker 1: no paywall associated with the pods. She couldn't get any help.

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Speaker 1: And she's not unemployed. She's working on she's working a job.

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Speaker 1: She's looking overnight shift as a corrective officer. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: she's at the same time she's kind of scraping it

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Speaker 1: together and she is feeding. The last Saturday, she said

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Speaker 1: over six hundred people one Saturday of Junion, she gave

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Speaker 1: out twenty thousand towns of food, which is more food

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Speaker 1: almost than she gave out in all of twenty nineteenons

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Speaker 1: for the church. She's done incredibly hard work and she's

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Speaker 1: doing it with no help from the government. And it's

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Speaker 1: you know these times of characters that run into on

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Speaker 1: the east side of Cleveland. We're working really hard to

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Speaker 1: help the communities to get through this crisis, and they're

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Speaker 1: doing it with very little help to no help from

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Speaker 1: from the sederal government. You look at the stimulus that's

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Speaker 1: going on the economy, you think about the people who

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Speaker 1: serves and how vulnerable they are, and that is clearly

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Speaker 1: one part of the economy that should be getting more

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Speaker 1: and just isn't. It just isn't. And a really nice

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Speaker 1: piece of reporting is Alex pointed out Shawn congratulations on

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Speaker 1: this story. It's a must re check it out at

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com, on the Bloomberg terminal, or in the

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Speaker 1: upcoming edition of Bloomberg business Week. That's Sean Donn, and

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Speaker 1: senior trade reporter who left Washington to do some great

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Speaker 1: reporting there in Cleveland. Our thanks as well to Joel Webber,

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Speaker 1: the editor of Bloomberg Business Week. All right, let's do

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Speaker 1: a little Business Week economics, because when it comes to

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Speaker 1: reopening the economy in any meaningful way, Alex, I think

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Speaker 1: you and I can one agree on this, both being

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Speaker 1: parents schools, they have to be reopened for the economy

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Speaker 1: to be fully reopened. Please please not even economy for

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Speaker 1: my own sandy and my husband's sanity, and then also

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Speaker 1: for the economy. Yes, so in that order. Emily Austar

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Speaker 1: she wrote a terrific piece for Bloomberg Opinion about this

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Speaker 1: professor of economics at Brown University and a Bloomberg Opinion columnists.

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Speaker 1: As I mentioned, she joins us on the phone from Providence.

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Speaker 1: All right, Emily, you gave voice and and maybe more importantly,

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Speaker 1: gave some solutions to the problem that I think we

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Speaker 1: are all obsessively thinking about. Tell us what you think

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Speaker 1: and what you found is you sort of put pen

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Speaker 1: to paper here. Yeah, So what I was what I

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Speaker 1: was writing about was just how we're going to think

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Speaker 1: about working under the constraints that we seem to be

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Speaker 1: facing for the fall. So, you know, like you, I

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Speaker 1: would very much like us all to be back in

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Speaker 1: person if we can do that. Bafely, it doesn't seem

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Speaker 1: like school district A necessarily gonna be there. And so

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Speaker 1: I think, particularly in New York, you guys are not

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Speaker 1: going to be in uh in school every day. And

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Speaker 1: so I was thinking a little bit about different solutions

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Speaker 1: people that have ranging from you know, the kind of

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Speaker 1: home schooling that we've all been doing for this entire

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Speaker 1: time period, two kind of different market based solutions. So

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Speaker 1: should we all hire a governess like the one percent?

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Speaker 1: Or should we should we think about intermediate and can

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Speaker 1: be tid with other families, and just trying to give

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Speaker 1: people some ideas for for how to move forward in

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Speaker 1: what's obviously an incredibly challenging set up. Well, what I

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Speaker 1: thought was interesting in the piece is that, um, a

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Speaker 1: lot of it is for those one per centers, Like

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Speaker 1: you said, the governance, there's also to do it yourself,

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Speaker 1: which homeschooling, which would be really bad my household. But

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Speaker 1: then you got into different options like a babysitter, coop

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Speaker 1: or market based solutions. Can you take us through that

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Speaker 1: where it is maybe more accessible to a broad variety

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Speaker 1: of people. Yeah, So I think that the two things

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Speaker 1: there were sort of one talking about like, let's say

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Speaker 1: your kid is in school for two days a week, uh,

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Speaker 1: with a bunch of other kids in their class, UM,

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Speaker 1: and there you could think about hiring a babysitter along

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Speaker 1: with some other kids in the class, so you know,

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Speaker 1: rotating the kids around to your different houses or apartments, um,

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Speaker 1: with some kind of supervision. Obviously, if you did that

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Speaker 1: with six families, you know, that's six one six of

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Speaker 1: the cost of doing it doing on your on your

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Speaker 1: own UM. And then there are also you know, my

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Speaker 1: guess is I'm actually just talking to somebody in l

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Speaker 1: A this morning runs and after school program and they're

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Speaker 1: going to be running a lot of programming for kids

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Speaker 1: who are would otherwise be in school. So there certainly

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Speaker 1: will be some art market based solutions for this where

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Speaker 1: your kids can be out of the house. Uh. Those

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Speaker 1: aren't going to be challenging in other ways, I think

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Speaker 1: and for that you're talking about like the j c

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Speaker 1: C s and the y m c A s the

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Speaker 1: world right, Yeah, exactly why I'm j c C is

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Speaker 1: all those kind of things. And so as you look

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Speaker 1: across the country, I guess one of the other challenges here,

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Speaker 1: Emily is that even within a state like New York,

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Speaker 1: you're going to have different decisions being made sort of

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Speaker 1: region by region, much less you know, across the country. Uh,

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Speaker 1: is it feasible to think about, especially from an economic perspective,

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Speaker 1: that some regions of the country and even some subregions

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Speaker 1: of a state may be able to essentially thrive economically

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Speaker 1: while others may be left behind owing to closures and whatnot. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think this is part of what what's

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Speaker 1: sort of been very odd about the economics of this

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Speaker 1: is just the idea that, you know, we don't think

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Speaker 1: of the US as quite so segmented, and yet all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, you know, in this world, like the

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Speaker 1: situation in Rhode Island is totally different from the situation

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Speaker 1: in Texas, or from Florida, or from or from New York.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's going to mean that everybody's got

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Speaker 1: to have got to have different solutions, but it is

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Speaker 1: also going to mean that there's a tremendous amount of

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Speaker 1: inequality across places in how much your economy is gonna

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Speaker 1: be able to reopen. I mean, as you said, you know,

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Speaker 1: school reopenings are kind of a key to economic reopening,

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Speaker 1: and places where school is fully remote are going to

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Speaker 1: have which fundamentally very different trajectory than places where school

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Speaker 1: is in is in person. If the schools can thence

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Speaker 1: to stay open, I think the hardest thing is going

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Speaker 1: to be if they open and they close again. That's

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Speaker 1: going to be even even more challenging to adapt to.

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Speaker 1: What I'm trying to get a handle on is like

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Speaker 1: we we can talk for years about how horrible it

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Speaker 1: is to have kids not in school on so many

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Speaker 1: different levels, and I just can't quite get a read on,

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Speaker 1: like financially what we need to pump into each school

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Speaker 1: to get them reopened safely and anecdotally. I have a

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Speaker 1: five year old. Her kindergarten class had twenty six kids

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Speaker 1: in a five hundred, six hundred square foot room, so

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Speaker 1: already like that class would have to be broken up

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Speaker 1: into three classes like there, so there's different classrooms. Um,

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Speaker 1: do we have a read on that yet. No. What

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Speaker 1: I actually think this is one of the biggest challenges

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Speaker 1: to making progress on this is that people have different ideas.

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Speaker 1: You know, I have some ideas, people have some some

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Speaker 1: other ideas, different kinds of staffing models, space models. But

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Speaker 1: it's clear all of these things are going to take resources.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think we've had a lot of uh,

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Speaker 1: We've made a lot of efforts to like write down

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Speaker 1: what is the budget? Um, you know, what different people

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Speaker 1: do we need? How many of them do we need?

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Speaker 1: Do we need two? And more? If your kids class

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Speaker 1: needs to be in three different in three different classrooms,

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Speaker 1: do we need three you know, three teachers? What's the

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Speaker 1: space we're going to use for that? How are we

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Speaker 1: going to afford that afford that space? I think part

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Speaker 1: of the problem is once we read that down, the

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Speaker 1: answer will be, you know, this is incredibly expensive. But

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Speaker 1: I also think until we do that, we won't we

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Speaker 1: won't know, you know, what are the pieces that are

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Speaker 1: the most expensive and what can we what can we do?

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Speaker 1: So I would really like to see more concrete numbers

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Speaker 1: put to this. All right, Emily Austin, We're gonna leave

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Speaker 1: it there. Professor of Economics at Brown University Blueberg opinion columnists.

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Speaker 1: Her column parents Don't have to panic over part times school.

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Speaker 1: It was one of the most read columns on the

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Speaker 1: Bluemberg continues to get a ton of readership. It has

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Speaker 1: spun around the web so many times, Alex, for all

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Speaker 1: the obvious reasons, because people like you and me are

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Speaker 1: trying to figure this out, both, as you said, for

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Speaker 1: our own sanity, for the sake of the economy, for

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Speaker 1: the sake of our humanity. You know, we think about

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Speaker 1: you know, and I have the the interesting perspective of

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Speaker 1: both teenagers and a a a sub sub three roles

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Speaker 1: who doesn't go to traditional school obviously yet, and and

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Speaker 1: the the effect on families. And listen, you and I

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Speaker 1: are very fortunate to have the resources that we do,

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Speaker 1: and I think a lot about folks who don't have

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Speaker 1: those luxuries too. Yeah, it's and you know, yes, it's

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Speaker 1: going to be horrible in terms of the social and

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Speaker 1: inequality divide that we're going to see, particularly here in

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Speaker 1: New York. And I look at my own personal circumstance

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Speaker 1: like we're going to be fine. My daughter is gonna

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Speaker 1: be fine, Like we're going to take care of her.

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Speaker 1: How many people can really say that, and and that's

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Speaker 1: a long term set up, like you can lose billions

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Speaker 1: of dollars over your lifetime as a whole group. Yes, um,

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Speaker 1: if you don't have the right education, and that's gonna

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Speaker 1: make all the issues we see worse. Absolutely alright, a

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Speaker 1: really important issue. So check that out on the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Our thanks to Emily Austrich. You are listening to Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business Week. Jason Kelly and Alex Steel here with you.

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Speaker 1: We are debating the merits and demerits of meat right now,

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Speaker 1: as we get into this new segment, Bloomberg Green, we

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Speaker 1: call it. Emily Chasen, Sustainability editor, back with us for

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg on the phone from New York City. All Right,

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Speaker 1: I have to say, Emily, the headline alone, low methane meat.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, that's here, but it's a stop gap.

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Speaker 1: First of all, tell us what we're talking about. I

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Speaker 1: have to say, I saw this on Twitter, I believe you,

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Speaker 1: or when your colleagues put it out. So we're talking

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Speaker 1: about burger king to some extent. But this whole concept

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Speaker 1: of low methane meat, this is basically like cows and gas, right,

431
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: it's cow too. It's dude, it's cow too. So let's

432
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 1: just let's just call it. It's cow to it. That's

433
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 1: what it is. Um. Yeah. So it's really interesting because

434
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 1: you know, there was a big trend years ago toward

435
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 1: organic meat UM, and now people are thinking about, well,

436
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 1: meat actually has a huge impact on the environment. It

437
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 1: is a huge force of global emissions, probably just nine

438
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,080
Speaker 1: from agriculture directly, and then if you think about the

439
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: whole supply chain from farm to fork, over a third

440
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 1: of global emissions. And then it's going to get even

441
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 1: more attention as we've been working really hard to get

442
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 1: the electric sector and the transport sector emissions under control.

443
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 1: So as those emissions well, then the agriculture emissions get

444
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 1: bigger and bigger and bigger. So what we're looking at

445
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 1: here is this sort of that realization from consumers and

446
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,640
Speaker 1: company saying, well, I guess we can sell you low

447
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: methane meet it's like the new organic foods label or

448
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: low carbon meat. So how do you get them? How

449
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 1: do you get their tooths better? Usually have to like

450
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 1: seriously because what it is, like, what is it? What

451
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 1: you feed them? I means a certain type of cow.

452
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 1: There is a ton of experimentation in the field right now.

453
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 1: I guess um Burger King just this week that came

454
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: out with a open source method UM that looks at

455
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: lemon grass and they say that lemon grass um sort

456
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,959
Speaker 1: of makes cow's bellies happier. Um. I think there's other

457
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,959
Speaker 1: people trying seaweed and various food additives. UM, so you know,

458
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: if cows have fe bellies and the planet will be

459
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: happier also. Um. But it's it's only a limited solution,

460
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: right because there's still going to be quite a lot

461
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: of my thing. Even this can produce methane by up

462
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: to a third, there's still many years that cows are

463
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 1: out there emitting methane versus you know, a plant, right,

464
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: I dare say, I mean, and we will not go

465
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 1: down this rabbit hole, but like this could be useful information,

466
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 1: I think for all sorts of things, especially you know

467
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: have teenage boys. But Emily pizza there, that's true. The ultimate, um,

468
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 1: I mean, the ultimate solution here, as you just alluded

469
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 1: to when you talk about plants versus animals is eat

470
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: less meat. How much is that actually catching on? I

471
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: will say I had an impossible sausage sandwich. This morning.

472
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: It was delicious. Um, And we know that those meat

473
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 1: alternatives are catching on, but I wonder sort of where

474
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: we are in that adoption. Yeah, well, there's a ton

475
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: of you start ups every year. There's a lot of

476
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: activity in the private markets right now around plant based meat. UM,

477
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: beyond meats. I p O was really interesting in that space. Um,

478
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: some of the big meat companies they're starting to get

479
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: into plant based meat. There's all sorts of different proteins

480
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: that people are putting out there, even once from microbes.

481
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of stuff happening there. And what

482
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: what you're thinking about this. I've talked to an investor

483
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 1: who's like trying to be a vegan investor. Now, there's

484
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: enough opportunities right now that you could try and adjust

485
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,439
Speaker 1: your portfolio for a vegan lifestyle in a way that

486
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: you could just do your food in the grocery aisle

487
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: more easily in the past. And that's interesting. Um, here

488
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: here's the question for you. Can you methane capture this stuff?

489
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: Before you laugh, I mean carbon captures a thing. Um,

490
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: Capturing methane is also a thing, like is is that

491
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: somewhere on solution somehow there was actually an experiment in

492
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: Argentina a few years ago where they put methane backpacks

493
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 1: on cows to capture it and then they create a

494
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 1: full system. And there's also all this whole network of

495
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: anaerobic digestors that works with cow maneure and that sort

496
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: of thing could try and um capture the methane from

497
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 1: it and you know, power trucks or something else with it. Um.

498
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's interesting from a financial perspective that it's

499
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: hard to invest in this space because there's not a

500
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 1: lot of, like speaking companies that are public, so you

501
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: sort of have to screen out stocks that are fossil

502
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: fuels or curl or have some sort of damage to

503
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: wildlife or deforestation. Wow, all right, well this is a

504
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,479
Speaker 1: great story. We'll put it out on Twitter. It is

505
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg and at Bloomberg dot com. Emily Chason,

506
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: sustainability editor for Bloomberg, on the phone from New York City. Low,

507
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 1: methane meat has arrived, but it's a stop gap. I

508
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: feel like Alex Steel on my list of garage band names,

509
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 1: methane backpacks pretty good one. I'm just wearing like, I mean,

510
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 1: you know, those things be heavy. That's that's a bummer

511
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 1: for the cows, but to the point of actual investing.

512
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: I completely agree with her on this. So I was

513
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: talking to one big name head fund manager who used

514
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 1: to be really into oil and basic commodities, and his

515
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 1: base sick goal in life now is to invest in

516
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: startups that make food better. And that can be like

517
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: making bees more productive or making your corn more productive.

518
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: It can be it can be technology, many different things,

519
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: but like that's his thing now. So, yeah, the problem

520
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: is there's not a lot of public opportunities r right, Well,

521
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 1: but you know, increasingly is the private markets get more

522
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 1: liquid in some form or fashion. You know, maybe that

523
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 1: comes on board and venture capitalists. You know, I mean

524
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: the idea of constructing a vegan portfolio. It's kind of interesting,

525
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: perfectly honest with you. I don't know if I could

526
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 1: construct a vegan diet, Like, I don't really know what

527
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: that means. I know, I can't eat cheese, milk, eggs

528
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: like I can eat carbs. I get really confused with

529
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 1: the vegan thing. Yeah, there's it's basically no meat, no

530
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: dairy I think are the main thing. Um, no paleos meat, nothing,

531
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: you like, there's a grainy it's some grain and there's

532
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: no cheese, like I can't like, I can't like. Here's

533
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 1: the music. Can I have a segment? Yeah, exactly. I'm

534
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: a journal Yeah, but you let me drive? Oh no,

535
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: no, no no, no, who's going to drive home? Honey? Please,

536
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: I'll do the riding revel. I want to drive all

537
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: just drive, baby questions trying. This is the drive to

538
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: the globe. Thanks, we'll dry un on Bloomberg Radio. All right,

539
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: time for the drive to the clothes. Let's get there

540
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: with Norm Calmly. He's CEO and c i O, Chief

541
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: investment officer at Jack Capital Management, looking after about one

542
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: and a half billion dollars. Joining us on the phone

543
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: from St. Louis, Norm, how are you. I'm doing well.

544
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: I'm doing well. Thank you. What does all this look like?

545
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: They're on the ground in St. Louis? Uh be are

546
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: we talking about we're talking about the crisis here, like

547
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: I mean, the especially the health crisis. Yeah. Sure, so

548
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: you know here in St. Louis we are um, you know,

549
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: we're we're practicing a lot of social distancing. We've got

550
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: some state in county and local mandates that I think

551
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: of probably on the stricter side compared to many areas

552
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: of the country. We're not quite yet um as as

553
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: strict as for example, Los Angeles or over the last

554
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: couple of days, but probably a little bit a little

555
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: bit stricter than for example, you know, Georgia, uh, Colorado,

556
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: some other states like that. Uh. I know we'll get

557
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: to markets in the second as wealth manager, but I

558
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: do want to ask a follow up on that norm

559
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: and that um something that debates I think in the

560
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: market is that do you kind of need a lockdown

561
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: to then hurt economic growth or just the headlines are

562
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: enough to curb investor confidence and curb their spending and

563
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: make them stay home regardless of what the shutdown laws are.

564
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: And I wonder what you're noticing is you're kind of

565
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: like in the middle. Yeah. So so you know, I

566
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: think that there is a bit of pent up demand

567
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: from consumers. I mean, I've talked to a lot of

568
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: folks and I think you know, you may have also

569
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: that uh consumer. You know, savings rates have have gone

570
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: up during this crisis. I mean, it was just not

571
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: as many places over the last several months to spend money. Uh.

572
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: So we're seeing, you know, we're seeing some benefits on

573
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: the commerce side, uh and obviously delivery services. But um, yeah,

574
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: I think that for folks that are lucky enough to

575
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: to still have a job, and we know that there's

576
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: there's a lot of a lot of folks that don't, um,

577
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: there is some probably some pent up demand going on.

578
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: So um, you know, I don't know if I answer

579
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: your question. I think you know, any news that we're getting,

580
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: we're seeing some of it today that that you know,

581
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: there could be a light at the end of the

582
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: tunnel for for this is a positive light in the

583
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: at the end of the tunnel, in the form of

584
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: a vaccine, right right, yeah, vaccine. I mean we you know,

585
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: we've got the you know, globally the smartest people in

586
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: the world working on a cure for this, and it

587
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: looks like, um, it looks like, you know, they're getting closer.

588
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: And in the meantime, um, you know, just reading things

589
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: from the CDC and listening to medical professionals, our abilities

590
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: collectively to treat cases when they arise, even in the

591
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: absence of a vaccine, appears to have improved pretty materially

592
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: over the last three to four months. Yeah. I think

593
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: that's right. And as you say, you know, all the

594
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: best minds focused on. This is probably in a way

595
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: that we've never seen over the course of human history,

596
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: certainly modern history. UM. So let's talk some names if

597
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: we can. I mean, one of the biggest debates I

598
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: feel like we're all having, and maybe it's not even

599
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: a debate at this point, is around retail online and

600
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: breaking mortar. How do you play this as an investor?

601
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: What names do you look at specifically or not look at? Yeah, so,

602
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: you know, for for a number of years now, Um,

603
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: you know, brick and mortar, mall based retail in particular

604
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: has been under pressure. You know, it's just hard to

605
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: compete with you know, next day delivery to day delivery

606
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: via Amazon Prime for example. But this crisis has really

607
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: accelerated it. And I don't have to go into a

608
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: lot of detail other than you know, we've seen J. C.

609
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: Penny go into bankruptcy, Neiman Marcus re enter bankruptcy. Um.

610
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: You know that the whole, the whole trend has been

611
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: accelerated and compressed because of because of the locked ms

612
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,239
Speaker 1: of physical retail across most of the country. I mean,

613
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: we own Amazon, we continue to like it. Uh, you know,

614
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,719
Speaker 1: we think obviously they're clear beneficiary and you know of

615
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: the stay at home economy. Uh, and the stock has

616
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: reflected a lot of that. But I think in addition

617
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: to that, what what the CEO, Jeff Bezos has has

618
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: done is used this crisis as an opportunity to invest

619
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: more in their business and essentially were producing a um

620
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: a COVID proof if I could use that term, supply

621
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: chain and within the Amazon ecosystem, and you know, spending

622
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: four billion dollars. Uh, you know it is what he's

623
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: announced that they're going to be studying in the current

624
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: quarter on this. Gosh, it's just it's really hard for

625
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: other retailers, certainly physical retailers to to match that. So normal.

626
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: Are you at all playing the recovery trade? Because I

627
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: understand on the fundamental ways what you're saying about Amazon

628
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: is also obviously caught up in the tech rally that

629
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: we've seen except for the last few days. Are you

630
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: doing the recovery bit? Um? Yeah, you know that's interesting.

631
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: You may be reading our mail or we've been talking

632
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: about it internally with our team. UM. I guess the

633
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: short answer is, uh, we are playing the recovery of

634
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: that to the extent to which our process and and uh,

635
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: you know, our long standing process allows us to do so.

636
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: So you know, we're growth investors. UM. There are probably

637
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: a lot of really good values UM that will be

638
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: a parent certainly in hindsight, say six or twelve months

639
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: from now, that go into that recovery basket. So you

640
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: could look at you know, for example, distressed travel related companies.

641
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 1: Uh maybe you know some of them all based retailers

642
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: that are going to survive. You know, they're really cheap.

643
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: That's not our game, though. We let our our value

644
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 1: brethren brethren, uh pick those really cheap stocks that are

645
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 1: going to ultimately work their way out of distress and

646
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: and and uh and recover. Um. But you know there

647
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: are there are companies that that you know, we can

648
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,240
Speaker 1: own and you know one of them uh sent TOAs,

649
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: which is a uniform company, probably the dominant work uniform company.

650
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,280
Speaker 1: You know, we think they're going to benefit from uh,

651
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: you know, from normalization, you know, as an if and

652
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: when it occurs. One more name I'd love to ask

653
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: you about if I can, Norman, I think this is

654
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: one that's interesting to both Alex and me as watches

655
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: of the stock market, but also as consumers. Lulu Lemon Uh,

656
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: that's been a fascinating name to watch in many cases

657
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: and maybe has defied some expectations throughout this Maybe it's

658
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: everybody working in you know, leggings. But what do you

659
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: make of it? Yeah, so Lulu Lulu Lemon is you know,

660
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: one of our largest holdings, and we've owned it for

661
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 1: several years. Um, really fascinating company. Obviously, you know, made

662
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: their name with leggings and and you know, yoga pants,

663
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 1: mostly for for the female women market, but over the

664
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,399
Speaker 1: last several years has really made a concerted effort and

665
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: by and large has been successful in expanding into into

666
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,439
Speaker 1: men's clothes. Um. So you know, we really liked the name.

667
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 1: They're having a lot of success globally and growing their brand.

668
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: And then I was really intrigued. Uh, and I guess

669
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: I like the acquisition that they made pretty recently of Mirror,

670
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: which is a company they invested about a million bucks

671
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: in I guess a year year and a half ago, um,

672
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 1: and ultimately here fought for five million, which is crazy.

673
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: It sounds for a pre public company. Uh, that's about

674
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: five times projective sales, right, So we really really like it. Yeah,

675
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 1: all right, well we'll have to talk more about that

676
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: when next time you join us, good to catch up

677
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: with you. Norm Conley, of course, joining us from St. Louis,

678
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:25,919
Speaker 1: Chief Executive, Chief Investment Officer over Jack Capital Management. Thanks

679
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: so much for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the

680
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: podcast on iTunes, South Cloud, Bloomberg dot com, or wherever

681
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. And of course you can always

682
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on

683
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,719
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684
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: Global News