1 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, Welcome to Bloomberg Intelligence Talking Transport Podcast. I'm 2 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: your host Lee Claskows, Senior Freight Transportation Legistics analyst at 3 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence, Bloomberg's in house research arm. We're delighted to 4 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: have Jeff Tucker, CEO of Tucker Company Worldwide, the oldest 5 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: privately held freight broker in the United States. Jeff is 6 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: also a huge advocate for the broker industry. He is 7 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: a past chairman of the Board of Directors for the 8 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: Transportation Intermediaries Association or TIA, a national trade association of 9 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: over seventeen hundred member companies based in Washington, d C. 10 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,959 Speaker 1: Jeff chairs a committee for and has co authored each 11 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: edition of TIA's Carrier Selection Framework, which provides guidance on 12 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: selection of safe motor carriers. He also participates as vice 13 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: chair of TIA's Emerging Technologies Committee. Jeff has testified before 14 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: Congress on truck safety matters and was named by the 15 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: US US Department of Transportation Administrator to a special subcommittee 16 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: to advise the USDOT on highway safety. He is a 17 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: board of director member for the largest ship or organization, 18 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 1: the National Industrial Transportation League or net League, and shares 19 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: its Highway Transportation Committee. He serves as co chair of 20 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: Health and Personal Care Logistics Conference Service Provider COUNSUL and 21 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: chair of the Consumer Healthcare Products Association's Transportation Subcommittee. Thanks 22 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: for joining us on the Talking Transports podcast, Jeff Lee. 23 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 2: Thanks, It's great to be with you here. 24 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: You certainly do a lot of stuff outside of your 25 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: day job, don't you. 26 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of It's a little. 27 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 3: Time consuming, i'd say, from time to time, but it 28 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 3: does support the business. 29 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: Everything I do is in support of the business and 30 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 2: the brand. Well. 31 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: Great, So you know, you know, I'm pretty familiar with 32 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: your company. I've known you for quite some time seeing 33 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: you on the scene conferences. Can you give people a 34 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: little color about what Tucker Company Worldwide actually is and does. 35 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 2: Sure, we're a freight brokerage and we also have an 36 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 2: MVOCC and ocean forwarding license, but primarily we are involved 37 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 2: in surface transportation within North America. I'm third generation in 38 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 2: the business, third generation owner of the business, and we 39 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 2: started nineteen sixty one. We were moving over dimensional, high wide, heavy, long, 40 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 2: all the above, and today we continue to move that 41 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 2: type of freight. But about thirty years ago we got 42 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 2: involved in pharmaceuticals and the broader life science business. So 43 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: those are the two real pillars of the business. So 44 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 2: wildly different, but the commonality in both of those is 45 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 2: the complexity moving pharmaceuticals, the high security and high per 46 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 2: pity to risk loss and and then moving into the 47 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 2: over dimensional with the very careful and deliberate routing, police escorts, 48 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: you know, pull trucks, all kinds of permitting that's involved, 49 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 2: extremely complicated as well. 50 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: So you're not dealing with commoditized freight like the beverage 51 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: industry or like that. It's really value added stuff it is. 52 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 2: I mean, listen, the business has been around long enough 53 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 2: that we've got customers in almost every kind of you know, 54 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 2: walk of life, so to speak, in every industry. 55 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: So given that, I'm assuming your business is probably a 56 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: little less volatile than your typical freight broker. 57 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, traditionally it has been. But twenty twenty three, 58 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 2: you know, taught us that you know, nobody you know 59 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 2: doesn't matter really who you are. Nobody's fully insulated from 60 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 2: the effects of the market. But yes, when the pandemic hit, 61 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 2: we had exposure to grocery, we had exposure to of course, 62 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 2: life science and healthcare, and those two things kind of 63 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 2: exploded while the exposure to energy, we weren't you know, 64 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 2: people weren't flying, people weren't driving as much. The exposure 65 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 2: to the energy and those large shipments fell fell away, right, 66 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 2: And when things came up again and people started flying again, 67 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 2: we saw, you know, a role reversal. But those two 68 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 2: three years were really strong, really strong years for us. 69 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 2: So we've we've been mostly insulated, as you say, mostly insulated, 70 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,119 Speaker 2: but twenty twenty three, you know, taught us a new lesson, 71 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 2: all right. 72 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: And so obviously truck supply and demand are pretty important 73 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: in your world. What are you seeing right now when 74 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: it comes to truck and supply? I know you like 75 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 1: to you've done. I've seen in the past a lot 76 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: different studies in terms of you know where the supply 77 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: is and where it's heading. Can you give us some 78 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: color about, you know, what you're seeing on the supply side. 79 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: So you're right. I've owned a company called Qualified Carriers 80 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 2: dot Com since two thousand and six, and in that 81 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: company we have we've just recently sold it to Highway, 82 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 2: But in that in that time period, every single month 83 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 2: since two thousand and ten, we have collected data on 84 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 2: the motor carriers, the number of drivers, a number of tractors, trailers, 85 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,679 Speaker 2: trailers owned trails at least in the for higher fleet 86 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 2: in the United States. And what I can tell you is, 87 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: you know, we're at least a million drivers higher net 88 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 2: today than we were beginning of twenty eleven, let's call it. 89 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 2: And I think you know, we saw a run up 90 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 2: at least in the data from FMCSA. We saw a 91 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 2: run up of about fifteen percent fourteen fifteen percent of 92 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 2: the run up in the number of active for higher 93 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 2: carriers and the number of drivers in that fleet. Now, 94 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 2: some of that driver data is by its very nature delayed, 95 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 2: so maybe it wasn't a fifteen percent, maybe it was 96 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 2: eight or nine percent increase. But those super charged rates 97 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,359 Speaker 2: that we experienced in twenty late twenty twenty through twenty 98 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 2: twenty two were enough to entice a lot of folks 99 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 2: to get into the business and a lot of folks, 100 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 2: and further a lot of folks to part ways with 101 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 2: their employer and start their own company. So what we've 102 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 2: seen since mid twenty twenty two to the end of 103 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, we've seen a complete reversal. We've seen 104 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 2: us go back to relatively speaking, back to the almost 105 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 2: similar numbers that we saw twenty nine end of twenty 106 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 2: nineteen beginning of twenty twenty. So I think most of 107 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 2: the analysts out there will say that we're somewhere near 108 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 2: an equilibrium. We might still be I have a few 109 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 2: more drivers than we need in the marketplace that you know, 110 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 2: we'll find out in six months if that's true. But 111 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 2: what we're seeing, what our team is seeing, is the 112 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 2: marketplace is probably at an equilibrium generally. Where we're seeing 113 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 2: some tightness or better better described as resolve, is in 114 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 2: in the type of freight that requires on time performance. 115 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 2: So if quality is a part of your your your mix, 116 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 2: and some freight requires higher quality than others, those carriers, 117 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 2: you know, they're they're a little bit more picky today 118 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 2: than they were just even a few months ago. So 119 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 2: we're starting to see that kind of and and again 120 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 2: we've been through all these crisis through the years, and 121 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 2: that's the that's the beginning stage for us, is when 122 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 2: we start to see, okay, you know what, people are 123 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 2: starting to get picky. People are starting to say, now 124 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 2: that doesn't compliment my my network I mean, you didn't 125 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: hear that last year, and you take almost anything no 126 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 2: matter who the carrier was right. But you know, it's 127 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 2: it's definitely a different tone in our conversations. 128 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: And do you think for truckload rates to get better 129 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: it's going to be more from the supply side or 130 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: the demand side. 131 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 2: That's a tough one. You know, employment is still. 132 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: You got a chance of being right or wrong. 133 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 2: I don't like to predictly. I try to learn real carefully, 134 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 2: and one of the big learnings through the years is 135 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 2: never predict But I think that I think from what 136 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,079 Speaker 2: I hear anecdotally there and I'm not seeing it yet 137 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 2: in the data, but here anecdotally is that we probably 138 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 2: still have a little bit more drivers to bleed off 139 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:07,319 Speaker 2: the market. So so supply will will will maybe firm 140 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 2: up by the loss of those drivers, and and and 141 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 2: maybe demand you know, increases. But like there's so many, 142 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 2: you know, we used to call them black Swan events, 143 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 2: but it seems like, you know the world is chock 144 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 2: full of black Swan events today with with things in 145 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,439 Speaker 2: the Suez Canal and and elsewhere. 146 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: That's for sure. And so I'm curious. So you know, 147 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: you're so your freight broker. What you guys do is 148 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: you find capacity for your shippers your purchase transportation costs 149 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: have gone down because of you know, the weaker markets 150 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: in general. What are the conversations that broker is having 151 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: with shippers or are you, like, you know, are you 152 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: being forced to drive your raids down as well? 153 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 2: So when you when you think about bit season this year, 154 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 2: what we're seeing a lot of is people kicking the 155 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 2: can down the road. We've seen a number of customers say, hey, 156 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 2: we're going to hold onto these rates for another year, 157 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 2: and especially in that you know, we deal a difference 158 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 2: about Tucker. Is a lot of our businesses contracts. Okay, yeah, 159 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 2: we we just like every broker. We we we pick 160 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 2: up the pieces when you know, load tender rejections in 161 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 2: you know, increase and and we pick up the people. 162 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 2: We're there for our customers to pick up the pieces 163 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 2: and spot load. It's that sort of thing. But we 164 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 2: really were considered for most of our customers, were considered 165 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 2: one of their core providers. Right, So we're shoulder to 166 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 2: shoulder competitors. So so I when I'm speaking, I'm speaking 167 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 2: primarily about contract rates. Okay, So we saw a lot 168 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 2: of that. We saw a lot of hey, we're not 169 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 2: going to be doing bids until later this year. Later 170 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 2: this year is there's a consensus building that later this 171 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 2: year maybe rates increase. So maybe they're just trying to 172 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 2: those cases are trying to ride last year's lower rates 173 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 2: for a little while longer. We're also seeing maybe a 174 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 2: more measured approach this year and looking for other things. 175 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 2: So two things that kind of come out of Woodwork 176 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 2: for us in terms of shipper need customer need. One 177 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 2: of them is sustainability. Every I mean, you know, we've 178 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 2: been a smart epa smart way transport provider for fourteen 179 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 2: years our company, and for the first thirteen years, no 180 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 2: one cared except for us. Nobody dared. And today virtually 181 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 2: every RFP, from incumbent customers and new prospects, everyone is asking, hey, 182 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 2: what are you doing about sustainability. So that's a big one, 183 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 2: and I have to say that most of our customers 184 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 2: and prospects they don't have necessarily a plan, they're just asking, hey, 185 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 2: what are you doing I suppose collecting data on that. 186 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 2: The other one that's really big right now is visibility 187 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 2: ship and visibility ship and visibility and even control tower 188 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 2: among shippers, So I can't help them with the control tower. 189 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 2: I can certainly plug in. But the ship and visibility 190 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 2: is something that you know, we we've worked on for 191 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 2: a number of years and we're a very high level 192 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 2: of ship and visibility you know, across all of our carriers. 193 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 2: So that's something that we're seeing as as a need. 194 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 2: And then really to answer that, it's almost customer by customer. 195 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 2: What I think is most interesting about our industry is that, 196 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 2: you know, we we saw these tech enabled brokers come 197 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 2: and we talked about democratizing the data and digitizing freight 198 00:12:55,880 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 2: brokerage and and instead what we've seen is instead of 199 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 2: a consolidation of the large carriers, you know, like just 200 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 2: taking more and more market share, uh, we have more 201 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 2: carriers in business today than really ever except maybe last year, 202 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 2: and we have more you know, a more diverse carrier base. 203 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 2: We have more brokers than ever before. And what we're 204 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 2: seeing from customers is you know, matching the load to 205 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 2: a truck. That's the easy part about what what's more 206 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 2: challenging is some of the value adds stuff for the 207 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 2: and also stuff that we do. We're negotiating constantly with 208 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 2: their vendors. We're providing data on vendor behavior and how 209 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 2: vendor behavior impacts pricing overall. 210 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: When when you say vendor, you who are you talking about? 211 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 2: So within let's call it consumer packaging, consumer products, right, 212 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 2: some of those companies they make their own products. Some 213 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 2: of them use contract manufacturing. So I'm talking about you know, suppliers, 214 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 2: whether it's supplier of packaging material or or maybe they're 215 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 2: supplying the actual product. But you know, freight is freight 216 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 2: is only a small piece I think of what we do. 217 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 2: You know, it's what we're doing with those customers. When 218 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 2: we're moving outbound from third party or even outbound from 219 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 2: the customer, we're able to measure the the amount of 220 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 2: time we're given from a load tender to pick up time. 221 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 2: And what we see is over time, we see patterns 222 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 2: and sometimes as patterns are troubling, meaning that you know, 223 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 2: we're getting shorter and shorter windows to pick up and 224 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 2: you're on time isn't going is going to suffer? Right, 225 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 2: So if you're and if if your delivery has a 226 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 2: on time in full or some sort of compliance be 227 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 2: associated with that, it makes it more challenging for you. 228 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 2: So we feel like you know, in a lot of ways, 229 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 2: the work that we do is you know, yeah, it's 230 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 2: a tip of the spear, is the is the load 231 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 2: to truck, But it's also analyzing data, analyzing experience, is 232 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 2: sharing those experiences with customers who care. And those customers 233 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 2: who care are the ones who are really investing in 234 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 2: their supply chain, really investing and changing those behaviors to 235 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 2: benefit the overall effectiveness of their supply chain and lower 236 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 2: the cost and for the shippers. 237 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: But what are some of the most important KPIs that 238 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: they're looking for. 239 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 2: You know. Again, what's what's really interesting and really beautiful 240 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 2: I think is that the KPIs differ by customer. I mean, like, look, 241 00:15:54,800 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 2: there's always on time, right and especially if you're if 242 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 2: you're in consumer goods. I think we all know, you know, 243 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 2: the big box stores will impose penalties if you're not 244 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 2: in on time and full of some you know, various 245 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 2: various different compliance fees associated. So on time is always 246 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 2: you know, top there. And now with ship and visibility, 247 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 2: you've got you' you can you've got ground to stand on, 248 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 2: you know, and a firm ground to stand on if 249 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 2: if you're on time and maybe you're being dinged for 250 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 2: not being on time. So so I think that's that's 251 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 2: that's uh, that's always the the lynchpin, the foundational But 252 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 2: I've got I've got multiple customers who who create and 253 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 2: sell very similar products, products that you know, a consumer 254 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 2: might interchange, whether it's a pain reliever or a multivitamin 255 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 2: or something like this, and and they're sitting right there 256 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 2: on the same shelves, and their KPIs are entirely different, 257 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 2: and they could be using the same TMS, which is 258 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 2: you know, even more remarkable. I think. So it really 259 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 2: just depends on what the shipper is looking for. And 260 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 2: again that's one of the beauties of I think of 261 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 2: of how diverse this marketplace is. And one of the 262 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 2: reasons why this marketplace is as diverse as it is 263 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 2: is that companies are there. Every company seems to be 264 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 2: working on what's important to them. And if you, as 265 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 2: a service provider, can tailor your service to helping them 266 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 2: achieve their goal, you know, it's it's it's a it's 267 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 2: a it's a it's a win win, and and that's 268 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 2: why I think, you know, that's one of the reasons 269 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 2: I think this this digitization isn't just didn't take off 270 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 2: when eight years ago and eight nine years ago? Now 271 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 2: when when when we first learned of all these different entrants. 272 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you know, one a large one recently, 273 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: you know, failed a Convoy. Do you expect more kind 274 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:10,199 Speaker 1: of tech enabled first brogers to kind of face the 275 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: same data is Convoy? 276 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 2: You know, it's they probably were, you know, if not 277 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 2: the biggest among the biggest, right and and uh and 278 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 2: I think that failure happened at the end of at 279 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 2: least what I hope is the end of the worst 280 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 2: hangover than all of us have seen. But you know, 281 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 2: I think it's important, you know, I, as I saw 282 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 2: them and others enter the marketplace and as prognosticators, you know, 283 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 2: predicted the doom of of the freight brokers industry, only 284 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 2: to see quite the opposite happen that the industry's exploded 285 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 2: in terms of numbers of companies and even revenues within 286 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 2: those companies and overall marketshare. I think, you know, these companies, 287 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 2: what they've learned is that, you know, the business is 288 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 2: way more complex than than like, let's say, you know, 289 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 2: ride sharing right, right, and and there's way you know, 290 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 2: we're just talking about it just a moment ago about 291 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 2: these KPIs and how the KPIs differ from company to company, 292 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 2: and I think, you know, you're trying to solve a problem. 293 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 2: I think a lot of them were trying to solve 294 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,199 Speaker 2: a problem that really wasn't a problem, and none of 295 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 2: us thought was a problem to begin with, right, you know, 296 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 2: so so what do you really what is your business 297 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 2: really you know, this disruptive business going to be doing. 298 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 2: And I think they're just off base, you know, in 299 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 2: terms of yeah, I mean, you. 300 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,360 Speaker 1: Know, our thought has always been that, you know, you're 301 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: going to get a hybrid broker where you know, the 302 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: old school brokers are going to embrace technology more and 303 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 1: these technology first need to embrace the people aspect of 304 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,719 Speaker 1: the business if they want to succeed. And you know, 305 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 1: they're going to meet somewhere in the middle. Not quite 306 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: sure if it's exactly in the middle. Maybe lean a 307 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,679 Speaker 1: little more towards on the tech side, But that's, you know, 308 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: an evolution of the industry, at least the way we 309 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: see it over the long term. 310 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 2: No, listen, I agree. We were computerized in nineteen eighty seven. 311 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 2: I just graduated high school nineteen eighty seven, and I. 312 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: Hope you upgraded since then, we did go twice. 313 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 2: But you know, one of the things I think is 314 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 2: really another really cool, interesting thing about this industry is 315 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 2: the you know, gosh, you look back ten fifteen years ago, 316 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 2: en Ron was trying to you know, to get into 317 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 2: the industry right before they went bankrupt. But as so 318 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 2: many different people have tried to kind of get into 319 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 2: the industry and dis intermediate. But the reality is the 320 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 2: entities that are ending enormous amounts of money in technology 321 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 2: are are primarily the brokers and the carriers. The shippers 322 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 2: are understaffed, they're under provisioned from a technology standpoint, and 323 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 2: they will never I mean I would you never say never, 324 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 2: But they're nowhere near going to outspend the brokers and 325 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 2: the carriers right there. Tools, you know, even some of 326 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 2: the best TMS is out there are really rudimentary. They're 327 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 2: they're brass tax bare bones, you know, load tendering devices 328 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 2: right and and and and man, that's the easiest part 329 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 2: of this business is load tendering and load acceptance. There's 330 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,880 Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of detail and data and 331 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 2: and and complexity beneath that. And so it's you know, 332 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 2: to me it's I mentioned too. I mentioned a couple 333 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 2: of folks recently, some pretty large multinationals that our technology 334 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 2: reports into our COO and I'm like, oh my god, 335 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 2: that's I wish we could get, you know, technology to 336 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 2: report into operations because you know, we might get a 337 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 2: lot more done. And it's just it's for us. It's 338 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 2: it's like done, It's no brainer because the technology we 339 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 2: adopt make operations easier, make make make you know, that 340 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 2: the business flow more effective. 341 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 1: Right, where do you see the freake broker industry like 342 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 1: in the next couple of years, do you see it consolidating? 343 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 1: Because I mean, you know, in the past, you know, 344 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 1: as you need some some person would work for a 345 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 1: large firm and they'd be like, I can do this 346 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 1: on my own and alls I need is a you know, 347 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: a pack of cigarettes, a cup of coffee and a 348 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: phone and you can start a brokerage. So do you 349 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: do you see the industry consolidating? Do you think it's 350 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 1: just kind of that steady state of like new businesses 351 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:09,880 Speaker 1: constantly popping up. 352 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 2: You just asked me to predict again, I know, so what. 353 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: What what trends are you seeing that you think you 354 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: know are going to follow through into the to the uh, 355 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: you know, the near future. 356 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 2: It's yeah, I you know, Lee, I think that based 357 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 2: on you know, everything that I've seen, everything I've experienced, 358 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 2: based on the data again that we look at through 359 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,479 Speaker 2: you know, year on year every capacity crisis since you know, 360 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 2: two thousand and three, two thousand and four, every single 361 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 2: one saw a brokerage is piece of the pie increase, 362 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 2: brokerages market share increase. And I don't see why or 363 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 2: how that wouldn't continue on that trajectory. I think TIA's numbers, 364 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 2: will you know, show something like forty five percent by 365 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 2: twenty thirty or twenty thirty five call, but their numbers 366 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 2: continue to point up ward. And I just don't see 367 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 2: where why it wouldn't. Again, because you know, this notion 368 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 2: that brokers today put loads and trucks together, it's it's again, 369 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 2: it's the simplest notion, and it's it ignores all the 370 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 2: various work that we're that we're doing setting up you know, 371 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 2: success within a supply chain. So I think that it's 372 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 2: going to continue. And again, I don't see too many shippers, 373 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 2: I don't see too many customers or prospects saying hey, 374 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 2: we're adding to our team. Just quite the opposite. They're 375 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 2: not replacing people who just retired or were offered retirement, 376 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 2: so they're outsourcing more. 377 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: And then the brokerage industry is becoming more critical for 378 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 1: their operationtions. Absolutely all right, great, So what's I guess 379 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: what's the biggest challenge of operating a brokerage? Is it 380 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: on the sales side, is it on the is it 381 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: on the technology side, is it you know, employee churn. 382 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: What are the kind of the biggest challenges for you 383 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: at at Tucker Company worldwide? 384 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 2: Well, I think that generally speaking brokerage before I touch 385 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 2: on Tucker, generally speaking, the brokerage industry, as is the 386 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 2: truckload industry. It's very cyclical, right you know some of 387 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 2: the largest brokers and you fought you follow them, you 388 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 2: know that very cyclical and it you know a number 389 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 2: of people, lots of numbers of people had to be 390 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 2: let go, you know, over over the last year and 391 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 2: maybe into last year into twenty twenty two, so you know, 392 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 2: the scaling up and down. You know what we what 393 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 2: we've seen through the you know, the capacity crises is 394 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,640 Speaker 2: that carriers and brokers try to scale up, they try 395 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 2: to catch that wave of increasing prices and spot and 396 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 2: and then by the time they get kind of quote 397 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 2: unquote fully staffed, it's it's it's over and and and 398 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 2: they're they're over leveraged and over over staffed. So I think, 399 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 2: you know, it's probably discipline that is the you know, 400 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 2: one of the biggest challenges, and it's really knowing I 401 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 2: think for us now shifting to Tucker, for us, it's 402 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 2: it's it's it's knowing who we are and knowing who 403 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 2: we aren't and who knowing who what we don't want 404 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 2: to do in this world. We we moved from a 405 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 2: commodities business when I was entering the business, where I 406 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 2: had a lot of metals traders and commodities traders and 407 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 2: fruit concentrate juice concentrate customers and and I love those customers, 408 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 2: but they they they're raw materials. So, you know, we 409 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 2: we've evolved into the businesses that we that we're in today. 410 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 2: And I think that just like motor carriers have created 411 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,919 Speaker 2: some sort of a discipline. Hey, we're not going to 412 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 2: expand the fleet. We have to try to sort of 413 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 2: stay in our lane. I think that I think there's 414 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,160 Speaker 2: a balance there that that brokers probably need to need 415 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 2: to take. But yeah, people we we our HR is 416 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 2: called people in culture, and we spend a lot of 417 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 2: time trying to connect our core values to you know, 418 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 2: to everything that we do. Our all of our job descriptions, uh, 419 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 2: you know, are reflective of our core values, aside from 420 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 2: you know, some quantitative you know measures. So the culture 421 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 2: for us is critically important. So we spent a lot 422 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 2: of time there and uh, you know, getting the right 423 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 2: people and keeping those people and keeping them happy, rewarded 424 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 2: and safe in the environment. Those are those are top 425 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 2: of mind for us. 426 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: Okay, and you mentioned earlier, you know, your third generation 427 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: it's a private company. H tucker is, did you when 428 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: when you were a kid, were you just like I 429 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: can't wait to get into dad's business. Did you always 430 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: think you were going to get into the brokerage industry? 431 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 2: No, no, I didn't. I never thought that I wanted 432 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 2: to be a pilot, I think at one point in 433 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 2: most of my life, but. 434 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: I wanted to be a clown at one time. 435 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 2: So well you play one, you go, So yeah, no, 436 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 2: I never never dreamt. In fact, I think it was 437 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 2: probably until middle school I didn't even know what that 438 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 2: what he did and we went to he went to 439 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 2: school and excuse me, he went to work in a 440 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 2: trench coat when it rained, and I figured he must 441 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 2: have been a detective. So I must have set that 442 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 2: at one point. Yeah, my dad's a detective. And I 443 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 2: got this phone call from school say, yeah, no you're 444 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 2: you know, we'd love to have mister Tucker come in 445 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 2: and talk to a being a detective. 446 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 3: And that's when I started to learn ho so no 447 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 3: I uh, okay, so real real sure quick? 448 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 2: As in college, I I I anticipated going into business 449 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 2: somewhere shape or form. And I was in school studying economics, 450 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 2: and we were always told, hey, go out and find 451 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 2: your way. The company will be here maybe someday if 452 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 2: you know our past cross you can we can talk 453 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 2: about you joining the business. And then I was a 454 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 2: junior in college and my dad said, hey, new plan. 455 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,080 Speaker 2: I'm thinking about selling the company in a couple of 456 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 2: three years. If you wanted to join, you know, you 457 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 2: should probably think about joining when you graduate. And I 458 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 2: was like, oh, okay, you know and I was like, 459 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 2: what the what do I you know? Do I really 460 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 2: want this? And I remember two different people, the accountant 461 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 2: we were meeting with at one point. For some reason, 462 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 2: he thought I should meet the accountant and and a 463 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,479 Speaker 2: good friend's mom said, you know, look, Jeff, you're crazy. 464 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 2: You know this has provided a good lifestyle for you know, 465 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 2: your and your family. You'd be crazy not to try it. 466 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 2: So that's how I got into business. I was crazy 467 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 2: not to try it. And I have to say, for 468 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 2: the first seven or eight years I liked it, but 469 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 2: I also hated it. And but I came, I came 470 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 2: lead to I think you know me by now. I 471 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 2: love this business. I love everything about it. I love 472 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 2: the people I love. I love the feel of the 473 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 2: market has a feel to it. I love the feel 474 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 2: I couldn't image in doing anything else. But it was 475 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 2: like an arranged marriage that worked out. 476 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, but just fortunately it did work out right. 477 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: And so you, if I remember correctly, your you and 478 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 1: your brother are the big cheeses over there. Are there 479 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: any kind of challenges working with your sibling? 480 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 2: Oh, it's exceptionally challenging. And we talked about it. We 481 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 2: we When my father was about to leave the business, 482 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 2: the three of us got together with a psychologist, a 483 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 2: business small family business psychologist, and we got to talk 484 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 2: because we, you know, just father and sons. You imagine 485 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 2: the baggage that you bring. You know, you're still the son, 486 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 2: You're still the the moron that you know did the 487 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 2: dumb thing or whatever it was that you did. And 488 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 2: and then you know, then you know, move on fast forward. 489 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 2: Now your brother and one's older ones, younger one's this, 490 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 2: one's that one carries this you know, grudge and you know, look, 491 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 2: you're focused on the business. And that's one of the 492 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 2: that's one of the greatest successes. Right. Third generations usually fail, 493 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 2: ninety percent of them do it. But we've you know, 494 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 2: we we haven't and we're you know, we're doing you know, 495 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 2: growing the business. And we're specially we're really specialized, niche 496 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 2: niche business doing some really high value stuff that no one, 497 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,479 Speaker 2: no one in our industry really would touch. So so 498 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 2: we've got great success. But once a month we have 499 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 2: a therapy session and and it's just you know, it's 500 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 2: the same guy from twenty three, twenty four years ago. Yeah, 501 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 2: and we just you know, I just brought him back 502 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 2: about it, you know, within the last year to just 503 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 2: you know, help us, like, you know, we're older, right, 504 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 2: we've got different experiences and uh, you know, in any relationship, 505 00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 2: whether it's you know, spouse or friends or or family. 506 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 2: You can get lazy in your and your communications. And 507 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 2: we've made a commitment to not get lazy and made 508 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 2: a commitment to us but also to staff here. The 509 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 2: staff need to see that we see eye to eye 510 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 2: and that we worked through, you know, whatever challenges may 511 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 2: and look twenty twenty three it was a challenging year. 512 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 2: So yeah, so we we see a therapist, the same guy, 513 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 2: a guy named his name is Moss Jackson, MSS Moss Jackson. 514 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 2: I met him a Temple University small business alliance and 515 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 2: never let go of a guy. 516 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: All right, great, and so your third generation? Is there 517 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: a fourth generation that's interested in coming on board? Where 518 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: that's too early on ales? And I know your kids 519 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: are still in college. 520 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, thanks, there's there's a fourth generation. I've got 521 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 2: four kids, my my brother has two. But unlike us, uh, 522 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,720 Speaker 2: these kids are being told, hey, go out into the world, 523 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 2: you know, and and and figure out you know who 524 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 2: you are and what you you know, what you want 525 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,439 Speaker 2: to do. You know, I've told my kids like, look, 526 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 2: my gift to you is my love and I'm gonna 527 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 2: pay for your college and you know, to support you, 528 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 2: like you know, there's like there's no tomorrow help your network, 529 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:31,359 Speaker 2: but you know that's my gift and and you know, 530 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 2: you know, so far, my kids have very different interests, 531 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 2: and I think my brother's kids have very different interests. 532 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 2: And you know, it's not every arranged marriage works out. 533 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 1: That's true, that's true, But you know, it's it's pretty early, 534 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 1: and I guess there's plenty of time for them to 535 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 1: come back to the to the quote unquote nest of 536 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 1: Tucker Company worldwide. 537 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And look, I feel like I'm in the 538 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 2: prime of my life, prime in my career, and you know, 539 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 2: there's a lot of time in the future, and there's 540 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 2: a lot of you know, listen, there's also, as you're 541 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 2: well aware, there are a lot of different ways for 542 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 2: business successions to occur. And it doesn't have to be 543 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:18,919 Speaker 2: you know, through the family. 544 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 1: Right, and it doesn't have to be as dramatic as 545 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: that HBO show secession, which was. 546 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 2: Quite entertaining h show, great show. 547 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,279 Speaker 1: Right. And so I guess in a couple of a 548 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: couple of weeks, a couple of months, you're going to 549 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,280 Speaker 1: be down at the Health and Personal Care Logistics conference. 550 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that's going to be in Philadelphia in April. 551 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,919 Speaker 2: It will be there and I'll be flying from there 552 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 2: to the TIA conference in Phoenix the same week. 553 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,759 Speaker 1: Okay, Where the TIA conference is that same week. 554 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 2: It is, it's tenth through I think the fourteenth of April, 555 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 2: and the HPCLC is the eighth through the tenth, so 556 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 2: a little bit of an overlap, all right. 557 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 1: And then you have CHIP that is another conference coming up. 558 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 2: That's your Yeah, Chippa is coming up. Not going to that. 559 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:17,759 Speaker 2: We're going to a healthcare conference in Europe that's we've 560 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 2: begun going to. We're going to be going to that one. 561 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: Instead of all right, great, well, Jeff has always it's 562 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 1: always a pleasure to talk with you. I appreciate, uh, 563 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 1: you know, everything you've given me over the years, especially 564 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 1: when it comes to industry knowledge and and your friendship. 565 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: So thanks for that. 566 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 2: Appreciate that, Lee, I enjoy our friendship, and thank you 567 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 2: again for the invitation to contribute to your podcast. 568 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:48,359 Speaker 1: My pleasure and don't be lazy when communicating with me, please, Well, 569 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,319 Speaker 1: I want to thank everyone for tuning in. If you 570 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: liked the episode, please subscribe and leave a review. We've 571 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: lined up a number of great guests for the podcast. 572 00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: Check back to hear conversations with C suite executive, shippers, regulators, 573 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: and decision makers within the freight markets. Also, if you 574 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 1: have an idea for future episodes, please hit me up 575 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg terminal or on Twitter at logistics lay. 576 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: Thanks everyone, and be safe.