Speaker 1: This is Take twenty with Mattie and Kenzie Ziggler and
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio Podcast. Hi everyone, Um, welcome back. Today
Speaker 1: is a very special episode. Um. We have Allison Malman
Speaker 1: on who is the founder and executive director of Active Minds,
Speaker 1: which is a nonprofit organization supporting mental health awareness and
Speaker 1: education for students. Yeah. I mean, we're all going through something.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a really tough time in the world,
Speaker 1: so we just wanted to get some advice and you know,
Speaker 1: just talk through some of our issues that we're going through.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be fun. Yeah. Hi, Allison, So thank you
Speaker 1: so much for being on the podcast today. Um, we're
Speaker 1: just so happy to have you here and kind of
Speaker 1: share some information and knowledge and yeah, thank you for
Speaker 1: being here. Well, I'm really I'm really honored to be
Speaker 1: able to join you and really happy to you're having
Speaker 1: this conversation. It's such a meaningful one. So I'm really
Speaker 1: glad I can be part of it. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: I think it's been really interesting. Um, just trying to
Speaker 1: navigate some anxiety and stress as a teenager, and I
Speaker 1: know that everyone around the world is going through something,
Speaker 1: whether it be on a you know, a huge level
Speaker 1: or even if it's minor, everyone is still valid for
Speaker 1: feeling what they're feeling. And I think it's been interesting
Speaker 1: but really nice that we've had each other. So, um,
Speaker 1: is there any sort of advice, um, you could give
Speaker 1: about someone you know going through anxiety or depression or
Speaker 1: mental health in general? What would you kind of give
Speaker 1: advice to about that? Yeah, I love the question and
Speaker 1: even just how you started it, because I think one
Speaker 1: of the things that we tend to think is what
Speaker 1: I'm going through isn't as bad as what somebody else
Speaker 1: is going through, or I don't deserve to feel this way,
Speaker 1: or I have all these things and this person doesn't
Speaker 1: have this, And I think the most important thing is
Speaker 1: that whatever you're feeling is real and it's valid, and
Speaker 1: you have every right to feel how you're feeling. And
Speaker 1: this isn't a competition, right, So it's not like we
Speaker 1: eat one day, but we know somebody else eats more,
Speaker 1: so we shouldn't be hungry like right, We're taking care
Speaker 1: of our own body and our own mind. And so, uh,
Speaker 1: no matter what you're feeling right now, Um, if it
Speaker 1: was before COVID and it will be after COVID, or
Speaker 1: certainly when in the middle of this pandemic. It's real
Speaker 1: and you have every right to feel that way. And
Speaker 1: I think the thing that UM, we can do best
Speaker 1: to take care of ourselves, to talk about it, UM,
Speaker 1: to know that you're not alone in it. And if
Speaker 1: it's like you know, a friend, if it's an adult
Speaker 1: in your life, it's somebody on social whatever it is.
Speaker 1: But just to UM, surround yourself with people who you
Speaker 1: feel like you can open up to. And UM, you know,
Speaker 1: hopefully and ideally that somebody in your personal life and
Speaker 1: you have somebody in your family who was that support.
Speaker 1: But if not, you know, find your tribe somewhere else
Speaker 1: and know that you are cared for and people really
Speaker 1: do want to help and support you. And UM, you
Speaker 1: deserve to feel great, and you don't you deserve to
Speaker 1: get the support that that you need. Of course, that's amazing,
Speaker 1: that's amazing. Yeah, that was really good to hear. Honestly, UM.
Speaker 1: I think for me, well, my sister and I both
Speaker 1: go through mental health issues and you know, we love
Speaker 1: to be there for one another, but sometimes it's a
Speaker 1: little hard to comfort one another because you don't really
Speaker 1: know exactly what the other one wants. UM, even with
Speaker 1: just friendships or anything. What do you think would be
Speaker 1: the best way to comfort someone in this situation? Do
Speaker 1: you have any tips on dealing with anxiety with another
Speaker 1: friend or Yeah, it's a great question. And I think
Speaker 1: one of the things that is really hard is that
Speaker 1: we are often fraid that we're going to say the
Speaker 1: wrong thing, so we don't say anything at all, and UM,
Speaker 1: don't worry about that, right Like, It's part of what
Speaker 1: it means to be a friend is just to be
Speaker 1: there even if you don't have the right words. At
Speaker 1: Active Minds, we have a tool called v a R
Speaker 1: Validate appreciate, and we developed v a R because we
Speaker 1: realize that sometimes we're in these everyday conversations with everyday
Speaker 1: struggles and we just want to know how how to
Speaker 1: act and how to react. And so the V is
Speaker 1: that stands for validate UM validate that somebody is UM
Speaker 1: feeling the way they do right. Too often we say like, oh,
Speaker 1: but you don't, you shouldn't feel that way, or you
Speaker 1: don't have this, or you got this, No, just validate, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I I get it and I and UM appreciate thank
Speaker 1: you for sharing with me. That must be really hard
Speaker 1: to be vulnerable like that, UM, and then there are
Speaker 1: is for refer to resources and support. You know, what
Speaker 1: can we do? How can I be here for you?
Speaker 1: How how can I support you? Do you want to
Speaker 1: call UM? You know the counselor can I walk you
Speaker 1: over the counseling center? Do you want to go for
Speaker 1: a run or a walk? What what feels good and
Speaker 1: what feels right to you? UM? Oftentimes what it means
Speaker 1: in these situations is that we don't have to get
Speaker 1: to crises before we start UM intervening with someone. It's
Speaker 1: just about how how we a friend? And UM, if
Speaker 1: you sit back and you think, gosh, how would I
Speaker 1: want somebody to talk to me, that's probably how they
Speaker 1: want you to talk to them in that moment too.
Speaker 1: And and know that when you're struggling, or when when
Speaker 1: if you see a friend or a family member struggling,
Speaker 1: it's really hard to both struggle and reach out for help.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you don't even know that you're struggling, and and
Speaker 1: oftentimes you know, and you feel really alone, and you
Speaker 1: really feel really isolated. So sometimes the best thing that
Speaker 1: we can do as a sister or as a friend
Speaker 1: is just just to say you're not acting like yourself,
Speaker 1: are you okay, like I'm worried about you? Do you
Speaker 1: want to talk about something? And even if the answer
Speaker 1: is oh no, no, I'm just having a bad day
Speaker 1: and you truly believe it, you've at least opened the
Speaker 1: door to say like, I'm here for you and and
Speaker 1: maybe hopefully that opened something up for somebody who who
Speaker 1: is having a really hard time and does need to
Speaker 1: talk about it. But it's really hard to to make
Speaker 1: that first have that first word. So sometimes the best
Speaker 1: thing that you can do is the friend is just
Speaker 1: kind of open up the conversation, recognize that you don't
Speaker 1: have all the answers, and you're not expected to have
Speaker 1: all the answers, but you can be there as a
Speaker 1: support and you can help connect your friend or your
Speaker 1: sister whomever to the support that they need, um, whatever
Speaker 1: that might be. Right, Totally, that is such a huge thing,
Speaker 1: like kind of starting those conversations, even if they're a
Speaker 1: little bit uncomfortable, always usually result being a positive thing
Speaker 1: in the end. And that's something that we're definitely learning
Speaker 1: as we go. Um, it's tough, it's it's really tough
Speaker 1: communicating as well. It's it's especially when you for us
Speaker 1: being physical, you know, doing dance and whatever and expressing
Speaker 1: ourselves through that and then kind of like when we're
Speaker 1: not doing that. It's it's been at least for me,
Speaker 1: I don't want to speak for Penzie, but it's been
Speaker 1: interesting kind of having to emote through my actual like
Speaker 1: voice and in being present there rather than Oh, I'm
Speaker 1: feeling sad, so I'm gonna go dance and I'll feel better,
Speaker 1: you know. So um yeah, I was wondering if for
Speaker 1: people that maybe struggle and how to kind of let
Speaker 1: go of those feelings, like whether it be going on
Speaker 1: a run like you said, or driving and listening to
Speaker 1: music Like I'm I'm sure you have some some ways
Speaker 1: that are good to kind of like let go of
Speaker 1: all of that. Yeah, I mean you've touched on it, right, Like,
Speaker 1: so much of this is about finding our coping skills.
Speaker 1: I think it's really important to know if you're if
Speaker 1: you're really having a severe struggle and if you're in
Speaker 1: a if you're in a depression or you're having a
Speaker 1: panic attack, a coping skill isn't gonna heal you. So
Speaker 1: you can't run out a panic attack or you can't
Speaker 1: you know, run through a depression. So I want to
Speaker 1: make sure that's clear because um, oftentimes we um, we
Speaker 1: grow up like hearing the words of like, oh, you
Speaker 1: should have done this more, if you exercise more, if
Speaker 1: you went to church more, whatever it may be, you
Speaker 1: wouldn't feel this way. No what we're going through, what
Speaker 1: you're going through, or biological and social kind of constructs
Speaker 1: that are like part of you and part of your
Speaker 1: health and well being. At the same time, there are
Speaker 1: things that you can do to take care of yourself,
Speaker 1: both to like help offset when it's kind of mild,
Speaker 1: or to help protect yourself so that you don't get
Speaker 1: to a point of really feeling that struggle. And whatever
Speaker 1: that is for you, if it's dance, if it's singing,
Speaker 1: if it is playing soccer, playing video games, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: that like you can do with balance and for everybody
Speaker 1: that's different, right, I think that the balance piece is
Speaker 1: an important piece. You're not gonna you don't want to
Speaker 1: overdo it and then um, you know hide kind of
Speaker 1: in a in a different struggle but with with the
Speaker 1: other piece. But um, everybody has a different thing, and
Speaker 1: let yourself do that thing. If you're feeling stressed, if
Speaker 1: you're feeling really down, even if you don't feel like
Speaker 1: doing the thing you know you love, do it because
Speaker 1: oftentimes that can help kind of get you into a
Speaker 1: place where you can think a little bit more rationally
Speaker 1: about Okay, what's going on right now and who do
Speaker 1: I need to talk to? But you said that, I
Speaker 1: mean talking is going to be a really important part
Speaker 1: of this. But you but don't force yourself, like get
Speaker 1: to a place where you feel comfortable being able to
Speaker 1: identify your feelings and finding that person that you can
Speaker 1: trust to talk to you about it totally. And it's
Speaker 1: so nice to know that, like everyone copes and deals
Speaker 1: with it in their own time, like just even trying
Speaker 1: not to compare, like, oh, well this person did this
Speaker 1: exercise or this whatever and they were able to come
Speaker 1: like overcome it within I don't know, a month, but
Speaker 1: it just may take you five months or you know.
Speaker 1: It's just like it's nice to know that there's no
Speaker 1: time limit and everything you're going through is on your
Speaker 1: own time. And that's something that I'm trying to give
Speaker 1: myself a little bit of a break on just not
Speaker 1: to compare and stuff, just because it's tough and everyone's
Speaker 1: allowed to, you know, hell in their own time, of course,
Speaker 1: of course, and I'm proud of you, thank you. I
Speaker 1: think what I wanted to touch on because you know,
Speaker 1: being in the public eye social media is UM very
Speaker 1: hard for us teenagers, especially um the body image issues,
Speaker 1: and we talked about this on one of our podcasts,
Speaker 1: but it's definitely a thing that we all compare ourselves
Speaker 1: to others. UM. So do you have any tips or
Speaker 1: advice on that issue? UM? I feel like everyone can
Speaker 1: relate to it, and I don't think it'll ever go away.
Speaker 1: But I don't think it will at all. It's such
Speaker 1: it's I'm smiling because it's both such an important question
Speaker 1: and in some ways I want to turn it back
Speaker 1: to you and have you tell me. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: not a teenager right now, UM. And I also go
Speaker 1: through it as a forty something right like it doesn't UM,
Speaker 1: but as you said, like, it's never gonna go away.
Speaker 1: I you know, I have kids, I have young kids,
Speaker 1: and I have spent some time talking to my like
Speaker 1: ten year old, like really young, who is interested in
Speaker 1: getting social media. UM. I had her scroll through my
Speaker 1: feed and I told her, I was like, well, like,
Speaker 1: look at all the stuff that I have on my feed.
Speaker 1: Did I post about the times that like I was
Speaker 1: yelling at you, or that your sister was having a tantrum,
Speaker 1: or that we took a picture and everybody looked like crapper,
Speaker 1: our eyes were closed. No, what you see on my
Speaker 1: and you know everything about me as your mom, what
Speaker 1: you see on my feed is like all of the
Speaker 1: glitz and glamour, and everybody's smiling and everybody's happy, and
Speaker 1: so you need to know that that's what everybody's doing, right,
Speaker 1: And and it's easy to like see and understand and intellectually,
Speaker 1: but when all you're seeing on a feed is what
Speaker 1: looks like perfection, it's really hard to remember it. And
Speaker 1: so my recommendation for everybody is to remember what you
Speaker 1: put on your feed to then remember how other people
Speaker 1: are censoring what they have on their feed to right,
Speaker 1: and then the easy solution is to say, like walk away,
Speaker 1: don't look at it. But but that's not necessarily reality,
Speaker 1: Like that's that's your life and and especially your lives,
Speaker 1: but it's for everybody who's on social like that's how
Speaker 1: we're developing friendships and connections. As much as you can
Speaker 1: intellectually remember how censored your stuff is it can help
Speaker 1: you then braun that to realize that, like, that's really
Speaker 1: what you're looking at. UM, But it's hard. There is
Speaker 1: no one good solution, and it's something that we've been
Speaker 1: working through, UM for a long time. And I'm curious, like,
Speaker 1: but how would you answer that question? Yeah, that's such
Speaker 1: a good point. I mean, Instagram is just essentially a
Speaker 1: highlight reel for everyone. UM. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: know this, Kenzie. I think maybe I told you, but
Speaker 1: I a few days ago deleted the Instagram app. Um
Speaker 1: I have. I still have the account, but I just
Speaker 1: really noticed myself going into a pattern of every time
Speaker 1: I'm going through an anxious moment, I'll have an anxiety
Speaker 1: attack and it gets really really bad. And my first
Speaker 1: initial reaction is to, Okay, just track my mind, go
Speaker 1: on Instagram, start scrolling really really fast to kind of
Speaker 1: get your mind off of the anxious moment that you're
Speaker 1: going through. But then it ends up just making me
Speaker 1: extremely tense and even more anxious, just because now I'm
Speaker 1: not only dealing with what I'm going through, but I'm
Speaker 1: also now comparing myself and thinking, oh, their life looks
Speaker 1: so good or whatever it may be. And so I
Speaker 1: kind of had a moment where I just quickly deleted
Speaker 1: the app. And I feel so much better in the
Speaker 1: morning knowing that I don't wake up and instantly go
Speaker 1: and just check what everyone else is doing. It's helped
Speaker 1: a lot, even just in a short amount of time, um,
Speaker 1: And I honestly suggest a lot of people to try
Speaker 1: and do that. I know Kenzie has done it a bunch,
Speaker 1: and it's it's really beneficial. It really is. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think it's very refreshing, um once in a while
Speaker 1: to just get rid of a lot of your social
Speaker 1: media apps because we all just need a second to
Speaker 1: be in the real world. I feel like I'm always
Speaker 1: just trapped in this bubble where everything is on my phone,
Speaker 1: and I feel like I just need some time away
Speaker 1: from my phone. I'm like, I don't need it anymore.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I love that, I think. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: if you can do it, if you can, if you
Speaker 1: can take it off your phone, um and give yourself
Speaker 1: the break, and maybe it's a one day break one week,
Speaker 1: and then the next day you can you know, you
Speaker 1: can go to thirty six hours the next week or
Speaker 1: whatever it may, like, build it up for yourself, remind
Speaker 1: yourself that you can, um, you can live an awesome
Speaker 1: life off of your phone, and then you can reintroduce
Speaker 1: it as it makes sense, and you know, you don't
Speaker 1: have to stop altogether. But sometimes it's that that reminder that, like,
Speaker 1: I have a great life off off of my phone too,
Speaker 1: and I actually don't miss out on all that much.
Speaker 1: I'm not if I'm not with my friends on phone
Speaker 1: or whatever it maybe so I love that. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: and how do you feel about now after you know,
Speaker 1: all of us being in the pandemic and the last
Speaker 1: two years being so crazy and I, I mean, I
Speaker 1: I've had this conversation with a lot of people. I'm
Speaker 1: interested in how you feel just like kind of the
Speaker 1: social anxiety of going back to in person. I mean,
Speaker 1: now it's tricky, you know, with the variant and everything.
Speaker 1: But just like even in the situation of like, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, I haven't really connected with this so many
Speaker 1: people in a long time, how do I have a
Speaker 1: conversation and not feel awkward? Like that has been kind
Speaker 1: of tricky even for me, which I don't know. No,
Speaker 1: it's it's I mean, it's real, like you're identifying something
Speaker 1: that we've really seen is this anxiety of coming back?
Speaker 1: And and you know the big joke that introverts really
Speaker 1: have loved the past two years because we've had the
Speaker 1: ability to be at home and not have to be social.
Speaker 1: But um for both for people have been really happy
Speaker 1: where they are or those who really have have missed
Speaker 1: the social interaction. It's really hard to go to a
Speaker 1: coffee shop now and like remember how to talk to
Speaker 1: people and if somebody wants to come in and give
Speaker 1: you a hug, this like really awkward. Do I touch
Speaker 1: you or not? Um And again, like going back to
Speaker 1: the very first question, live into it, like know that
Speaker 1: that's okay and what you're feeling is both okay and
Speaker 1: normal and um A, none of us have been through
Speaker 1: this before, but be like, this is not a you've
Speaker 1: never separated from people for years and then been expected
Speaker 1: to go back to like a normal life. So ease
Speaker 1: yourself back into it in whatever way it feels comfortable
Speaker 1: to you. If you really don't feel comfortable going to
Speaker 1: that party or that gathering or whatnot, like give yourself
Speaker 1: permission to say no this time. Set a goal for
Speaker 1: yourself to go next time so that you don't find
Speaker 1: yourself in a cycle that you're not happy with, but
Speaker 1: but recognize that we can't go from zero to a hundred.
Speaker 1: That's going to be just as hard as it was
Speaker 1: going from a hundred to zero. And we all know
Speaker 1: how how miserable we were, you know, in late March
Speaker 1: of so um like it's it's a real feeling, and
Speaker 1: it's okay feeling. It's a normal feeling. Um At Active Minds,
Speaker 1: we have these bracelets. Um they're green, yellow, and red bracelets,
Speaker 1: the silicon bracelets that we hand out. And the idea
Speaker 1: is if you're wearing a green bracelet, that means like uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: feel free to shake my hand or give me a
Speaker 1: hug if for doing that. Yellow is you know, like
Speaker 1: I'm out, but like let's let's let's just bump and
Speaker 1: red is I would love to interact with you, but
Speaker 1: let's keep our distance. I'm not I'm still not feeling
Speaker 1: very comfortable. Like, if you need to do something like that,
Speaker 1: do it, like put it out on the sun your
Speaker 1: sleeve so that you don't have to, yeah, so that
Speaker 1: you can own it and know that it's okay. What
Speaker 1: a great idea. I wish the whole world had those bracelet. Um.
Speaker 1: That's such a great idea. I love that. Yeah, It's
Speaker 1: it's tricky because you you want to respect everyone's boundaries
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, you don't want to overstep. And
Speaker 1: I think that's a really good way to even like
Speaker 1: going back to like even if we have to ask
Speaker 1: the uncomfortable questions like is it okay if I hug you?
Speaker 1: Even things as simple as that, it's important to do. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I think also like kind of touching back on
Speaker 1: like if someone's going through an anxious moment something I remember, Um,
Speaker 1: I had we both at the time a therapist that
Speaker 1: we're not with anymore, but uh, Kenzie was really going
Speaker 1: through it. Uh and I wasn't at the time. And
Speaker 1: something that she kind of helped me do with Kenzie
Speaker 1: was just to kind of squeeze her arm and kind
Speaker 1: of work down her arm to kind of calm her down. Um.
Speaker 1: And I was just wondering if like there's any sort
Speaker 1: of like other techniques that are comforting if someone doesn't
Speaker 1: feel open to talking, is there a way that they
Speaker 1: can comfort them kind of just even just being there. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a great question. I mean my first answer is
Speaker 1: going to be like ask the person when he or
Speaker 1: she is not in that moment. Hey, Like, I've noticed
Speaker 1: you get there, what feels right and what feels good?
Speaker 1: Because I think one of the important things is everybody
Speaker 1: is going to be different, right, Like everybody has different
Speaker 1: coping skills, and everybody also in the moment either wants
Speaker 1: to be touched or not. Grounding is a really important
Speaker 1: part of being in panic um and and being in
Speaker 1: an anxiety and panic attack, and so helping ground either
Speaker 1: physically UM or if you're seeing in yourself to just
Speaker 1: like look around and notice points around yourself. Um. Those
Speaker 1: are gonna all be really important components of it. UM.
Speaker 1: But I think the thing that I would I would
Speaker 1: recommend um and you said it, Maddie, it's it's have
Speaker 1: the uncomfortable conversations, but realize like they don't. The only
Speaker 1: reason they're uncomfortable is because nobody has taught us how
Speaker 1: to have them. They're actually like totally normal questions in
Speaker 1: the same way of like, hey, you have a broken foot,
Speaker 1: what can I do to health feel? Right? Like? Hey,
Speaker 1: like when I when you're not you know, when you're
Speaker 1: not you or when you're having a panic attack, what's
Speaker 1: the most helpful thing that that shouldn't be an uncomfortable
Speaker 1: question and the more you ask it, the more normal
Speaker 1: it feels, right, and like that's mental health. But so
Speaker 1: far we have been raised to like not talk about
Speaker 1: anything until it gets to be really, really, really bad.
Speaker 1: But if we can make these kind of questions and
Speaker 1: conversations in the moment, they don't have to be uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: So um, you know the arm grounding through an arm
Speaker 1: is really is really helpful and just being present. Some
Speaker 1: people really want to feel that weight, um, and others
Speaker 1: don't want to be touched at all. And I think
Speaker 1: that's why I would say ask, um, but ask when
Speaker 1: somebody is doing well and you have that kind of
Speaker 1: relationship where they feel comfortable that they can open up
Speaker 1: to you. Wow, that's awesome. That's great advice. Well, thank you. UM.
Speaker 1: We are going to be having Allison on for episode two.
Speaker 1: We're doing a part two, so stay tuned. We're gonna
Speaker 1: be asking her way more questions. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for being on. This was really important topic to talk about,
Speaker 1: so thank you. UM. But yeah, thanks such a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for having me on. Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, we're so happy to have you. Thank you,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for taking twenty with us. If you
Speaker 1: had fun, please give us my stars. You can follow
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Take twenty podcast, email us at
Speaker 1: Take twenty at I heart radio dot com, or you
Speaker 1: can call us at eight four four for Take twenty.
Speaker 1: See you next time.