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Speaker 4: So with the Internet cut in Gaza and the world's
Speaker 4: attention focused on the Israel Iran war, the massacres in
Speaker 4: Gaza have only heightened since then.
Speaker 5: We put up this.
Speaker 4: First element here, this Reuter's article. This headline is absolutely extraordinary.
Speaker 4: Israeli tanks kill fifty nine people in Gaza crowd trying
Speaker 4: to get food. Aid medics say this is similar to
Speaker 4: the reports of the very first AID massacre, which defenders
Speaker 4: of Israel insisted for many days afterwards that it had
Speaker 4: not happened. In all of those days since then another
Speaker 4: massacre of people seeking aid has carried out. There's some
Speaker 4: you can go to drop site, News, Twitter Feed if
Speaker 4: you want to see it. We're not going to play
Speaker 4: it here because it's absolutely horrific. There is some footage
Speaker 4: of the carnage after the tanks fired on this area
Speaker 4: of Communis.
Speaker 5: This was This was.
Speaker 4: Another scene where people knew that there was going to
Speaker 4: be an AID truck going through and attempted to get
Speaker 4: aid from that truck and then they opened fire on them,
Speaker 4: killing well over fifty nine. Actually at this point they
Speaker 4: went to Nasser Hospital as well as others. Just is
Speaker 4: on the brink of total collapse at this point. We
Speaker 4: have some less graphic footage that we can show. This
Speaker 4: is C one. You can kind of hear the the
Speaker 4: shooting in the in the distance. You can see the
Speaker 4: scenes about are chaos and I just and you can
Speaker 4: see the lights at the in the distance there which
Speaker 4: represent the GHF kind of quote quote unquote AID distribution center.
Speaker 4: And just to remind people, before Israel took over AID
Speaker 4: distribution and had left it to the World Food Program
Speaker 4: in World Central Kitchen and others, you simply did not
Speaker 4: see scenes like this because these are aid organizations that
Speaker 4: have been doing this for for a very long time,
Speaker 4: and so they know how to do this.
Speaker 5: Speaking of.
Speaker 4: Uh Naser Hospital, we can put up CE two.
Speaker 5: This is and we can just roll this. This is UH.
Speaker 4: Basically, this is a This is an audio report that
Speaker 4: Dropsite got about the state of affairs at perhaps the
Speaker 4: largest hospital that is remaining somewhat functional in Gaza.
Speaker 6: Doctor Yusef reports that there is not just a huge
Speaker 6: number row patients coming in from the various massacres like
Speaker 6: the one today. Nassar Hospital is still in a red
Speaker 6: area and importantly Nasar Hospital has no supplies, no consumables,
Speaker 6: all items are lacking for the provision of emergency medical care.
Speaker 6: He also told me that until now, since the seventh
Speaker 6: October in Gaza, the Ministry of Health have recorded the
Speaker 6: use of one hundred and fifty thousand units of blood
Speaker 6: that have been used, which means approximately two hundred and
Speaker 6: fifty units of blood daily. Now, blood is lacking because
Speaker 6: of the starvation of the population. They cannot no longer
Speaker 6: ask people to donate blood because of nutritional anemia and
Speaker 6: the fact that many have already donated units, they are
Speaker 6: unable to receive more cases because they cannot provide life
Speaker 6: saving first aid or damage control or life saving surgery.
Speaker 6: There is practically no food available. They're trying to cook
Speaker 6: some bread in Nasser Hospital, but they are also in
Speaker 6: addition to being out of food material, there is no
Speaker 6: cooking gas and they are actually using staff to collect
Speaker 6: firewood in order to make some food available for the
Speaker 6: staff and the patients. This is the reality in Naster Hospital.
Speaker 4: And so for many months what drops O and other
Speaker 4: reporters have been in contact with the hospital staff at
Speaker 4: Nacera and other places, getting regular updates.
Speaker 5: It's never been I think it's dire.
Speaker 4: As it is now overall. Last night and let's put
Speaker 4: up C four there was another attack in Kanye.
Speaker 5: That is an.
Speaker 4: Assemblage of tents that you're that you're watching burning there.
Speaker 4: So the footage that's shot around the world over the
Speaker 4: last you know, months and a year ago, we're constantly
Speaker 4: seeing people burning alive. God only knows what the upclose
Speaker 4: footage looks like there. Uh that this comes as effectively
Speaker 4: nobody's paying attention for the last week or so because
Speaker 4: of the other war. The other war be between Israel
Speaker 4: and I run. And when you see the numbers of
Speaker 4: casually is coming out of that and compare it to
Speaker 4: what's continuing to happen every single day and Gaza, it's
Speaker 4: kind of extraordinary.
Speaker 1: Brian, what is the what have you heard from sources?
Speaker 7: No drop site is regularly in contact with people in
Speaker 7: Gaza and in West Bank, and what is their spirit like,
Speaker 7: what have you heard well west Bank?
Speaker 4: Interestingly, I'm glad you mentioned that the UN put out
Speaker 4: a report yesterday that the West Bank is now basically
Speaker 4: on total lockdown for Palestinians. Israeli settlers who live in
Speaker 4: the West Bank can move freely from their settlements to jobs,
Speaker 4: just like a few miles away in forty eight Israel.
Speaker 4: But the West Bank just just you know, if you're
Speaker 4: in an area, you can't leave it. Basically, if you're
Speaker 4: in a town, you can't leave the town. The checkpoints
Speaker 4: have become almost impassable, which means you can't as a family,
Speaker 4: you can't get to your job, you can't visit friends,
Speaker 4: you can't can't do anything. Yeah, like just a complete
Speaker 4: you imagine COVID lockdown times thousands and with guns everywhere
Speaker 4: in the Despair is pretty extreme in Gaza. The hunger
Speaker 4: like the you know, hunger is one of those things
Speaker 4: that we can all identify with because we get hungry.
Speaker 4: Everybody gets hungry. We have the ability when we get
Speaker 4: hungry to go feed ourselves. Sometimes we complain about the
Speaker 4: food we'll get, but if we're thirsty, we can drink.
Speaker 5: If we're hungry, we can eat.
Speaker 4: Sometimes we have to wait an hour, and it's like, oh,
Speaker 4: that's how awful was that? Like today, I forgot to
Speaker 4: bring a granola bar, so I'm going to suffer for
Speaker 4: like thirty minutes. You do love those, We love granola bars.
Speaker 4: It's that feeling just multiplied to infinity with no sense
Speaker 4: of when you're going to be able to feed yourself.
Speaker 4: And you know that at every almost every single a
Speaker 4: distribution scene, people will be killed, people will be shot at,
Speaker 4: and people will be fighting over flowers and the other provisions.
Speaker 4: That's the other thing you're seeing now, like people fighting
Speaker 4: each other. Yet and so you know that if you go,
Speaker 4: you you may get killed right when wounded, and if
Speaker 4: you get wounded, you're probably gonna die because of the
Speaker 4: lack of any medical care. Yet you go because of
Speaker 4: the hunger and not just your hunger, Like we can
Speaker 4: handle that. It's it's your family's hunger. There was a
Speaker 4: man who was killed about last week. His last words were, please,
Speaker 4: somebody take care of my children.
Speaker 5: I left them hungry.
Speaker 4: And for like, I think any parent around the world
Speaker 4: can can identify with that feeling.
Speaker 5: Like of like, because that's that's what you care about.
Speaker 4: Even in his dying moment, like, the thing that he
Speaker 4: was thinking about is his children and how they're hungry.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it's I don't think. I think it's impossible
Speaker 4: to describe the depth of spare at this moment. And and.
Speaker 5: I don't see how I don't see how it.
Speaker 7: Ends right, No, I mean if yeah, as everything is
Speaker 7: escalating in Iran, everyone's attention is increasingnything elsewhere already, and
Speaker 7: that looks poised to get even more significant. That that
Speaker 7: redirection of attention looks poised to get even more significant
Speaker 7: in the days ahead, which is it has to be
Speaker 7: incredibly a bleak, a very bleak future, feels like, I'm sure.
Speaker 5: And and the worse it gets, the more.
Speaker 4: Severe the international consequences will be for uh world opinion
Speaker 4: of Israel. When Western press gets in there and says, oh,
Speaker 4: that's stuff that Dropsite was reporting in these tiktoks and
Speaker 4: Instagram videos that we were seeing. That was only scratching
Speaker 4: the surface of what Western reporters are gonna be able
Speaker 4: to find when they get in there. And because of
Speaker 4: this chauvinism around believing Western reporters over you know, all
Speaker 4: standing reporters who are on the ground, that will have
Speaker 4: a greater effect, you know, once people can get in there.
Speaker 4: So people have to get in there at some point.
Speaker 4: But if you keep a simmering conflict going, you can
Speaker 4: fend off that day. And then Yahoo is a very day,
Speaker 4: one day at a time type of person just kicking
Speaker 4: whatever political pain there is just to the next week.
Speaker 5: And so.
Speaker 4: That's why I said, I don't know when, Like, I
Speaker 4: don't know what's going to force that to come to
Speaker 4: an end.
Speaker 1: Awful thank you for your reporting on that, Oh.
Speaker 5: Thank you appreciate that.
Speaker 4: So up next, the comptroller of New York City, Brad Lander,
Speaker 4: was arrested yesterday by Ice agents at a federal courthouse
Speaker 4: and he's joining us next. New York City mayoral candidate
Speaker 4: Brad Lander was a yesterday in New York by Ice authorities.
Speaker 4: He's joining us today to talk about his time and attention.
Speaker 4: What brought him to that and what brought him to
Speaker 4: that situation. Comstroller of New York City, Brad Lander, thanks
Speaker 4: so much for joining us.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 4: All right, So we're going to roll a little clip
Speaker 4: that has gone around the world from yesterday.
Speaker 5: But first, can you goin to set up the scene, like,
Speaker 5: where were you? Why were you there? Who was who
Speaker 5: was ICE trying to detain?
Speaker 8: This is twenty six Federal Close.
Speaker 9: It's a federal building where immigration hearings take place. It
Speaker 9: was the third week that I'd been there to observe
Speaker 9: cases in immigration court, and ICE has started what's called
Speaker 9: dismissing people's cases and then making them subject to expedited removal,
Speaker 9: and then masked ICE agents have been grabbing them in
Speaker 9: the elevator lobby. So we've been observing and then just
Speaker 9: trying to escort people out of the building five times.
Speaker 9: Previously I was able to just walk with families out
Speaker 9: of the building. They did not get grabbed. But this
Speaker 9: is an individual, Edgardo, who I was trying to escort
Speaker 9: out of the building when this scene breaks out in
Speaker 9: the elevator lobby.
Speaker 4: Well, let's let's roll the scenes so people have the context.
Speaker 4: Let's play that here.
Speaker 10: You have a judicital war.
Speaker 8: Do you have a judicial warrant?
Speaker 11: The judicial warrant.
Speaker 8: I will let go when.
Speaker 5: You show me the judicial warrant.
Speaker 11: Where is it warrant?
Speaker 5: You don't have the gloria to arrest US citizens.
Speaker 11: You don't have the authority to arrest US citizens.
Speaker 8: You don't have I'm not obstructing. I'm standing right here
Speaker 8: in the hallway.
Speaker 5: I asked to see.
Speaker 1: Okay, So first question.
Speaker 7: Homeland Security responded and said they found an old post
Speaker 7: of yours from twenty twenty four where you said no
Speaker 7: one is above the law. Homeland Security responds, no one
Speaker 7: is above the law, and if you lay a hand
Speaker 7: on a law enforcement officer, you will face consequences. They
Speaker 7: said you were arrested for quote, assaulting law enforcement and
Speaker 7: impeding eight federal officers. So, Brad, could you respond to
Speaker 7: that from DHS yesterday.
Speaker 9: I mean, everyone can see the clip that you just played.
Speaker 9: I don't lay a hand on an ice officer. I
Speaker 9: don't assault anyone. I'm attempting to escort someone and asking
Speaker 9: the agents to show a judicial warrant. And that's what
Speaker 9: plays out in the interview. And what's happening here is
Speaker 9: that the Trump administration is trying to escalate conflicts, strike
Speaker 9: fear into immigrants, to port millions of people, and undermine
Speaker 9: elected officials who are just trying to defend due process
Speaker 9: in the rule of law. That's what is happening before
Speaker 9: our eyes.
Speaker 5: And so who did you have your hands on there?
Speaker 4: Like everybody's kind of locked together as you're being kind
Speaker 4: of pushed down the hall.
Speaker 9: So the individual that I was trying to escort, I
Speaker 9: only know his first name.
Speaker 8: His name's Gardo.
Speaker 9: I had literally met him seconds before his case had
Speaker 9: been dismissed, so he knew and I knew that he
Speaker 9: was now stripped of status and subject to expedited removal.
Speaker 9: And others are walking with us as well. We had
Speaker 9: done this, as I say, five times before, and just
Speaker 9: before they'd been able to walk with a family out
Speaker 9: of the building unimpeded. That's what I was hoping would
Speaker 9: happen here.
Speaker 4: And so their argument, I guess you somehow are getting
Speaker 4: in the way of their ability to affect this arrest.
Speaker 4: Did they ever present the arrest warrant or anything else
Speaker 4: that so they.
Speaker 8: Have not brought charges.
Speaker 9: I'm told that my case is under review, but have
Speaker 9: not brought charges so far. But look, you know, this
Speaker 9: is what Look what happened to Alex Badia and Ras Baraka,
Speaker 9: a staff member of Congressman Jerry Knadler or Is Pambondi,
Speaker 9: has been very clear they're trying to liberate democratic cities
Speaker 9: from their own elected officials, and we have to find
Speaker 9: a way to stand up for the constitution and do
Speaker 9: process and the rule of law. I want to do
Speaker 9: it peacefully, non violently, just as a witness, but I'm going.
Speaker 8: To do it.
Speaker 5: Where did they take you in for? How long?
Speaker 9: I was in detention in another room in that same
Speaker 9: building for about three and a half hours and then
Speaker 9: Governor Hoko came down and they released me.
Speaker 7: Okay, So, and this is the question from the right.
Speaker 7: But there were according to the New York Times, a
Speaker 7: net there was a net migration of eight million people
Speaker 7: during the Biden administration. We know, you know, whether we
Speaker 7: agree with the administration or not, when they say, you know,
Speaker 7: it's all criminals or many many, it is full full
Speaker 7: of criminals and all of that.
Speaker 1: We know that obviously there's.
Speaker 7: Some level of that population that is criminal and that
Speaker 7: normal American citizens would oppose being in the kind So
Speaker 7: what should immigration enforcement look like, especially in the city
Speaker 7: like New York that has genuinely dealt with some measure
Speaker 7: of crime from people who are undocumented over saying BASAs
Speaker 7: or you know, waiting for asylum claims to go through
Speaker 7: the very labyrinthine court system.
Speaker 1: What should that look like, Brad.
Speaker 9: So, the individuals yesterday are people not accused of any
Speaker 9: crime outside of the immigration system, and in fact, more
Speaker 9: than that, they're doing everything right. They crossed at the border,
Speaker 9: they checked in with border patrol, and they got a
Speaker 9: hearing date and showed up for their hearing. And if
Speaker 9: we make it that you're going to be arrested for
Speaker 9: showing up at your hearing, no one's skin like we're
Speaker 9: going to wreck the rule of law. Of Course, the
Speaker 9: NYPD investigates crimes when they're committed, and that's just a
Speaker 9: totally separate process. So individuals who commit crimes, of course,
Speaker 9: the NYPD should investigate where people, you know, it should
Speaker 9: arrest people who have committed crimes in New York City,
Speaker 9: regardless of their immigration status, and if are immigrants, and
Speaker 9: if they're convicted of a serious or violent crime, our
Speaker 9: sanctuary city laws then allow for cooperation, but none of
Speaker 9: that is happening here. These are not people accused of
Speaker 9: anything of anything. What they've done is shown up in
Speaker 9: immigration court to have a hearing that they were given
Speaker 9: a date for. And all we want for them is
Speaker 9: do process, the chance to have their asylum claim heard,
Speaker 9: to get legal representation, and not to be kind of
Speaker 9: manhandled and disappeared. If I face charges, I'll have a lawyer.
Speaker 9: I know my rights will be protected. We have no
Speaker 9: idea where ed Gardo is. He doesn't have a lawyer,
Speaker 9: We don't know what his rights are. Trump is trying
Speaker 9: to strike fear and undermine the rule of law, and
Speaker 9: it's an important time for people to step up and stay.
Speaker 4: So in that video, you say, you know ICE agents
Speaker 4: don't have the authority to kind of arrest American citizens.
Speaker 4: Are you going to what is your understanding since then?
Speaker 5: Have you talked to lawyer? Is like?
Speaker 4: And are you going to kind of respond to the
Speaker 4: way that you were treated in your detention? Like, if
Speaker 4: it's the case that I doesn't have the authority to
Speaker 4: do what they did, is there a lawsuit here? Is
Speaker 4: there some type of action that you that you're planning
Speaker 4: on taking.
Speaker 8: I mean, right now, I'm waiting to see what happens.
Speaker 9: As I say, you know, there were no charges brought,
Speaker 9: but my case is under review, so I will wait
Speaker 9: and see what happens there. But let's be clear, I'm
Speaker 9: going to be back at twenty six Federal Plaza trying
Speaker 9: to in a peaceful and non violent way witness what's happening, and.
Speaker 8: I hope other people will as well.
Speaker 9: You know, one hundred thousand New Yorkers were out on
Speaker 9: the street over the weekend saying, you know, we don't
Speaker 9: want kings in this country. I was there with an
Speaker 9: organization called Immigrant Arc. I love for people to sign
Speaker 9: up with them and also join and bear witness. We
Speaker 9: can together insist on the rule of law and protecting
Speaker 9: New Yorkers. Forty percent of New Yorkers are immigrants, including
Speaker 9: a million children, And you know that's where I'm going
Speaker 9: to stay focused.
Speaker 7: So the last estion for me is if you could
Speaker 7: flesh out because one of the craziest things in the
Speaker 7: last couple of months has been arguing about what the
Speaker 7: like the definition of due process and what it looks like,
Speaker 7: what it should look.
Speaker 1: Like for citizens versus non citizens.
Speaker 7: I think most people agree that non citizens do and
Speaker 7: should have are do literally due process. So for hypothetically
Speaker 7: a person like Edgardo, who is not so hypothetical in
Speaker 7: this case, but generally, what would do process look like
Speaker 7: for him? What do you think due process should look
Speaker 7: like for him? And how does that contrast with what
Speaker 7: you saw yesterday?
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, he should get a real hearing on
Speaker 9: his asylum application to determine whether he's got a credible
Speaker 9: fear of violence or repression if he's returned to his country.
Speaker 9: That's what you do under international law and under US law.
Speaker 9: And this expedited removal they've never done it before in
Speaker 9: New York City or in the interior of the country,
Speaker 9: and to what they're doing is stripping people of the
Speaker 9: basic right to get that credible fear hearing and make
Speaker 9: their asylum case. And if they don't have credible fear, fine,
Speaker 9: then you know, deportation is what happens.
Speaker 8: But that is not what happened here.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: On the mayoral election, we've covered the race on the
Speaker 4: program here and our audience I think was totally mystified
Speaker 4: at the last debate, where kind if every candidate went
Speaker 4: around saying like that they would go to Israel as
Speaker 4: like they're basically their first act as after getting elected
Speaker 4: mayorics except for Zora and Mamdani and then who was
Speaker 4: then pressed like why wouldn't you go to Israel. There's
Speaker 4: also something like one hundred thousand Pakistani Americans who live
Speaker 4: in New York City, and you know, many of them
Speaker 4: are supporters of him Ron Khan, who's been detained since
Speaker 4: twenty twenty two. And it occurred to me like nobody said, well,
Speaker 4: I'm going to go to Pakistan because there are one
Speaker 4: hundred thousand Pakistanis here and this is a very important
Speaker 4: issue to them.
Speaker 5: I'm going to go to Pakistan.
Speaker 4: I'm going to visit Imran Khan in prison because this
Speaker 4: is a violation of you know, international human rights and
Speaker 4: democracy and this is something we're going to stand up for.
Speaker 4: Can you help our audience understand like why, like why
Speaker 4: this one country and why does every New York City
Speaker 4: mayoral Canada have to say that they're going to go there.
Speaker 9: Well, for what it's worth, I said, my first trip
Speaker 9: would be to Canada.
Speaker 5: Okay, Also why myself would be.
Speaker 9: My second would be to Mexico. It's like those are
Speaker 9: our trading partner as well.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that makes sense. You know.
Speaker 8: And I am a proud Jewish New Yorker.
Speaker 9: I am the highest ranking Jewish elected official in New
Speaker 9: York City government. And I have been to Israel multiple
Speaker 9: times and I'll go again. I believe in the division
Speaker 9: of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state, but I
Speaker 9: think that requires an end to Israel's occupation of the
Speaker 9: West Bank and Gaza, and Israeli some Palestinians have to
Speaker 9: figure out how to live in mutual self determination. Piece
Speaker 9: that is not the job of the New York City mayor,
Speaker 9: you know. The New York City mayor can, though, try
Speaker 9: hard to set a tone that enables very diverse people
Speaker 9: from all around the world to live together in peace,
Speaker 9: without hatred, without anti Semitism, without Islamophobia.
Speaker 8: So that's the kind of mayor.
Speaker 9: I will be somebody who shows up like I did
Speaker 9: for ed Gardo yesterday, does it peacefully and non violently,
Speaker 9: stands up for the rule of law, and then tries
Speaker 9: to bring people together, Jews and Muslims and Christians.
Speaker 8: And it's an incredible city.
Speaker 9: It's got a mayor who has sold us out to
Speaker 9: Donald Trump. It's got a Canadate and Andrew Cuomo, who
Speaker 9: though asked many times, couldn't remember the last time he
Speaker 9: had ever been to a mosque, lied about many things
Speaker 9: on that debate stage.
Speaker 8: So we need honesty at city Hall.
Speaker 9: We need somebody who can bring people together and deliver
Speaker 9: the safer and more affordable and better run city New
Speaker 9: Yorkers deserve. And I got six more days to be
Speaker 9: out there making my case.
Speaker 4: Did you face any blowback for that answer? For saying
Speaker 4: you'd go to Mexican in Canada as your.
Speaker 9: I mean, on this issue, you face blowback, you know,
Speaker 9: and kind of you know, but to me, stand up,
Speaker 9: you say what you believe, you know, you'd be who
Speaker 9: you are. This city has been an incredible place for
Speaker 9: Jewish New Yorkers and for immigrants and folks from all
Speaker 9: around the world. And the mayor's job is to bring
Speaker 9: people together, make the city run better so it can
Speaker 9: stay that way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and last question for viewers who don't know, Zorahen
Speaker 4: Mamdanni has kind of has endorsed you for mayor. You
Speaker 4: have endorsed Zorhan Mamdanni because of the rank choice voting process.
Speaker 4: You know, if one of you wins, do you expect
Speaker 4: that Cuomo will carry on and run in the general election,
Speaker 4: and do you think he would have a shot in
Speaker 4: that case.
Speaker 9: Andrew Cuomo has said he's going to run as an
Speaker 9: independent regardless of whether he wins the Democratic primary. Eric
Speaker 9: Adams has two separate ballot lines, one absurdly named and
Speaker 9: anti Semitism, even though yesterday he was so busy meeting
Speaker 9: with the anti Semite sneak oh that he couldn't bother
Speaker 9: to say anything about Edgardo or about me.
Speaker 8: It is strange time.
Speaker 9: I sure hope Andrew Cuomo loses the Democratic primary. I
Speaker 9: was proud to cross indoors with Soroan Mamdani. And I'm
Speaker 9: focused hard, of course, you know, winning this race and
Speaker 9: making sure Andrew Cuomo gets nowhere near a city hall.
Speaker 4: All right, well, I think I'll be up in New
Speaker 4: York on Tuesday for the election. We're gonna do a
Speaker 4: live stream that night. I'll look for you out on
Speaker 4: the out on the polls. But it sounds great, Comptroller,
Speaker 4: thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 8: Thank you.
Speaker 4: New York City mayoral candidate Zorn Mamdani and aoc rallied
Speaker 4: yesterday in New York.
Speaker 5: Let's roll some of this.
Speaker 12: To everyone who pulls me aside to whisper with the
Speaker 12: best intentions, you have already won. I am sorry, but
Speaker 12: the days of moral victories are over. And as my
Speaker 12: father told me years ago, when the right wins power
Speaker 12: the left rights a great book, those days are over too,
Speaker 12: because this is a campaign that is going to win
Speaker 12: on June twenty fourth.
Speaker 10: For so long, we have had political leadership, including in
Speaker 10: the Democratic Party, that has just wanted to play it's safe,
Speaker 10: that has just wanted to be neutral, where so many
Speaker 10: people are motivated by their own individual political careers. And
Speaker 10: I cannot tell you how shocked I have been to
Speaker 10: see so many of the individuals who called on Andrew
Speaker 10: Cuomo to resign in disgrace after so many details of
Speaker 10: harassment against women, and for them, for those saying people
Speaker 10: who called on him to resign to stand behind him
Speaker 10: and endorse him for mayor of New York City, they
Speaker 10: still decided to throw all of their weight behind Andrew Cuomo.
Speaker 10: And I want to be clear about the message that
Speaker 10: that sends when they do that. Three Palestine's will.
Speaker 4: All right joining us how to discuss the rallies independent
Speaker 4: reporter who was at it. He runs a substack to
Speaker 4: Metropolitan Review. He's also a columnist at New York Magazine,
Speaker 4: Ross barcan thank you so much for join us.
Speaker 8: May be excited to be on.
Speaker 5: So.
Speaker 4: I don't know if I've ever heard of New York
Speaker 4: City mayoral audience with that kind of volume. You know,
Speaker 4: typically you're looking at, you know, a couple dozen or
Speaker 4: maybe a couple hundred people coming out to a New
Speaker 4: York City mayoral rally.
Speaker 7: I guess you've never been to one of those Bloomberg rallies,
Speaker 7: the famous Bloomberg rally for.
Speaker 4: The Bloomberg rallies. So, Ross, how big was this? What
Speaker 4: was the energy like?
Speaker 8: Like big? So it is still Terminal five, which is
Speaker 8: a sizable music venue in Manhattan.
Speaker 13: At least three thousand people were there, and it's it's
Speaker 13: the sort of event that probably if the venue had
Speaker 13: more capacity, they could have more. So incredibly high energy,
Speaker 13: very crowded, much more like a presidential campaign event than
Speaker 13: something for mayor. There have been rallies for mayor before
Speaker 13: that brought people in, but I would say of this scale,
Speaker 13: certainly I've never attended. I've covered mayoral races since twenty thirteen,
Speaker 13: I have not attended a rally like this one. He
Speaker 13: also had a fairly big one a little about a
Speaker 13: month ago, a little bit more about a thousand people.
Speaker 8: This was larger.
Speaker 13: This is with AOC, So undoubtedly the crowds are there
Speaker 13: for him. As we know, that's not everything, as I mean,
Speaker 13: you'll win, but the energy for this campaign is like
Speaker 13: nothing that I have seen in New York City in
Speaker 13: recent years at least.
Speaker 7: And Russi, you wrote a piece on your subseect just
Speaker 7: called Life with Zoron that published recently and folks should
Speaker 7: go read it at Ross Elliot Barkain dot com and
Speaker 7: on your substack. But could you tell us I'm curious,
Speaker 7: particularly about what you observed in terms of just name
Speaker 7: recognition and how engaged people are in this particular election.
Speaker 1: You know, you're just you mentioned it. It's not like
Speaker 1: what you've seen in the past.
Speaker 7: I'm curious, as you spent time with Zaramondani, like, are
Speaker 7: people really plugging into the race. Are people connecting the
Speaker 7: dots and saying, Okay, that guy is the guy who's
Speaker 7: running from mayor and this is what he believes in.
Speaker 1: What did you just notice as he was out campaigning?
Speaker 13: Well, in general, the engagement has gone up a lot
Speaker 13: in the last few weeks. It was a pretty sleepy
Speaker 13: mayoral race. For many months. Cuomo had a very large lead.
Speaker 13: Cuomo was barely campaigning, the other candidates were struggling to
Speaker 13: gain traction. Zoron's polling really started to surge or i'd say,
Speaker 13: move in a real way in March. But really in
Speaker 13: the last few weeks, his name recognition has increased by
Speaker 13: a lot, and he is now very well known in
Speaker 13: New York City, perhaps on the scale of Cuomo now.
Speaker 13: And Cuomo enjoys universal name recognition having been governor, having resigned,
Speaker 13: everyone knows, there's no one who doesn't have an idea
Speaker 13: of who Andrew Cuomo is.
Speaker 8: But Zoron is getting there, or he's there already.
Speaker 13: It's remarkable, And especially if you go break it down generationally,
Speaker 13: I'd say almost any voter now under fifty years old
Speaker 13: who's not an Orthodox Jew is coming out hard for Zorroon.
Speaker 13: Older voter is much more skeptical. So there's a real
Speaker 13: generational divide happening right now, and it's going to be
Speaker 13: very interesting to see how that plays out because New
Speaker 13: York City, in one hand, is a place where older
Speaker 13: voters traditionally in Democratic primaries dominate, They are more reliable,
Speaker 13: they show up. There also is just a growing cohort
Speaker 13: of younger voters in the city, college educated voters, people
Speaker 13: who are engaging more with local politics than they used to.
Speaker 13: So that would be very fascinating. As we're now in
Speaker 13: the home stretch under a week, there's definitely a lot
Speaker 13: of energy and interest in this race, which I would
Speaker 13: say less so a few weeks back.
Speaker 4: It feels like if Cuomo is going to eke out
Speaker 4: this victory, it's going to be because the attack ads
Speaker 4: on Zorhan land and revert and reverse the momentum that
Speaker 4: we've seen since March. If you if you look at
Speaker 4: his kind of climb in the polls, and you look
Speaker 4: at the trajectory, and you look at the date, the
Speaker 4: time of the election, like he's he's headed to eclipse
Speaker 4: Cuomo unless something changes. Does are the attacks landing and
Speaker 4: does Cuomo have the ability to get those attacks in
Speaker 4: front of voters who would then absorb them and decide
Speaker 4: that actually, after all, they will rank Cuomo.
Speaker 13: I would say that I'm a little less optimistic on
Speaker 13: the xoron trajectory than you. I don't know if he's
Speaker 13: on track to win even without the onsen negative advertising,
Speaker 13: just because no independent polls actually showed him ahead. Today
Speaker 13: Marris poll came out the race has strunk dramatically since May.
Speaker 13: So Marist in May showed Cuomo up twenty four points
Speaker 13: on Zoron after OURCV. Of course, this primary is RCV
Speaker 13: can vote up to five candidates. People get eliminated and
Speaker 13: you end up with a winner when they hit fifty percent.
Speaker 13: So Zoron has gotten from down twenty four to down
Speaker 13: ten in Marist. Most polls show similar movement. He's moving
Speaker 13: towards Cuomo, no doubt it's getting very close. No polls
Speaker 13: yet to show him on top. I do think, so
Speaker 13: what the negative ads do? They're everywhere the ubiquitous So I, myself,
Speaker 13: other people, my mom have gotten many anti Zoron mailers.
Speaker 8: There's been mailed coming in TV to Constant.
Speaker 13: There's a Cuomo superpack that's probably going to have more
Speaker 13: than twenty million dollars from this race is over. That
Speaker 13: has been blanketing the airwaves NonStop. Now used to be
Speaker 13: pro Cuomo ads and now it's pivoted in the last
Speaker 13: few weeks is purely anti Zoron. So you've got that
Speaker 13: the new York Times came out strongly again in Zoron.
Speaker 13: They issued a non endorsement in the race, but made
Speaker 13: some very cutting remarks about him and his experience that
Speaker 13: will be turned into an ad. So there's no doubt
Speaker 13: this negative campaign is something that Zoron will have to overcome.
Speaker 13: It's going to be a big challenge for him.
Speaker 8: You know, these candidates are so different.
Speaker 13: It's also hard to say what if, because literally you've
Speaker 13: never seen a mayoral race, at least in our lifetimes
Speaker 13: where the top two candidates just are so diametrically opposed
Speaker 13: ideologically and have such different life experience. Someone who's been
Speaker 13: in government for decades, who's been governor of the state,
Speaker 13: the most powerful person in New York State, versus the
Speaker 13: thirty three year old state assemblyman.
Speaker 8: One's an avowed socialist.
Speaker 13: One is from very much the center of the Democratic Party,
Speaker 13: even somewhat conservative depending on how he feels. One is
Speaker 13: very scandal scarred. One has no scandals. So so different, right,
Speaker 13: And that's what makes this race really interesting. Thing that
Speaker 13: the the the undecided voter here cannot be undecided for
Speaker 13: too long. Maybe they won't choose either candidate or rank
Speaker 13: someone else, but You've got stark choices in a way
Speaker 13: you don't typically see in almost any election, I would say,
Speaker 13: even beyond New York City.
Speaker 7: And it's sort of the perfect race for both of
Speaker 7: you guys having written like actual books about the left,
Speaker 7: and it tests a lot of what you guys have covered.
Speaker 7: And so I'm curious Ross as Zorn has been pitching
Speaker 7: this I think strain of democratic socialism in a very
Speaker 7: kitchen table type of way and in a way that
Speaker 7: doesn't often get a lot of play, and like mainstream
Speaker 7: democratic politics and Cuomo then, on the other hand, is
Speaker 7: like the perfect foil for all the reasons you just listed.
Speaker 1: So how do you think.
Speaker 7: Going going forward, let's just say beyond actually this election,
Speaker 7: and obviously that this will change if someone Amondanna wins,
Speaker 7: I mean it gets even more powerful. But how how
Speaker 7: has he tested out that that pitch for that version
Speaker 7: of sort of democratic socialism as a foil to establishment
Speaker 7: democratic politics, saying like this actually can work, you can
Speaker 7: get average voters on board with you know, bernieism.
Speaker 1: What people think of as that strain? What's that? What's
Speaker 1: that been like?
Speaker 13: Well, he's definitely taken the sewer socialist tact. You know,
Speaker 13: once upon a time there were socialist mayors of big
Speaker 13: cities like Milwaukee, and they're really focused on local issues
Speaker 13: and kind of making government run better and providing goods
Speaker 13: and services and sort of building a social safety net.
Speaker 13: So you look at the planks of his campaign, it's
Speaker 13: frees the rents on rent, stabilized apartments, it's making buses faster,
Speaker 13: and free universal child care.
Speaker 8: You know, he wants five city.
Speaker 13: Run grocery stores, which are actually not all that ambitious.
Speaker 13: I always get very views and people are like this
Speaker 13: is communism, Like, well, you know, the city can't run
Speaker 13: five supermarkets, and we have a lot more problem. The
Speaker 13: New York City runs a million kid Department of Education
Speaker 13: and a massive police force. So his actual campaign is
Speaker 13: not the kind of like green new deal, massive upheaval
Speaker 13: that you know candidates or federal office will pitch. Right,
Speaker 13: there's no Medicare for all pitch here. You can't do it.
Speaker 13: So that's very interesting and it's been successful. I mean,
Speaker 13: I think Zoron at the very minimum offers a blueprint
Speaker 13: for leftist campaigns going forward, which is, you know, you
Speaker 13: focus on economics, you focus on bread and butter. Zoron
Speaker 13: is very smart. He's very savvy, so he knows this.
Speaker 13: There's also the elements of Palestine politics of Israel Palestines,
Speaker 13: and Zoron is Muslim, and he is used to certainly
Speaker 13: identifies Nancy Zionist. He's still pro BDS, so his views
Speaker 13: on foreign policy have become a big part of this
Speaker 13: race too, though I will say he himself is not
Speaker 13: really running on that. You don't go to his website
Speaker 13: and find I support BDS. It comes up and he's
Speaker 13: honest about what he believes in, but he is He's
Speaker 13: really pushed it into this economic lane. And I think
Speaker 13: this race is really important for the left because it's
Speaker 13: the it's the biggest left wing campaign since Bernie Sanders.
Speaker 8: New York City is a huge city.
Speaker 13: They're going to be a million Democrats voting in this
Speaker 13: primary at probably at least. So you're talking about this
Speaker 13: is a state wide race, that this is like a
Speaker 13: governor's race in most states. So he is running the
Speaker 13: sort of race you've not seen from any leftist candidate
Speaker 13: since Bernie running for president.
Speaker 8: And it's on a scale far greater than AOC.
Speaker 13: Not to take anything away from her, but she won
Speaker 13: in one congressional district in the Queens in Queens in
Speaker 13: the Bronx, you're talking, I don't even know how to
Speaker 13: be voters vote in that primary, maybe forty thousand. So
Speaker 13: he's just operating on a huge I mean, the money
Speaker 13: being spent, the amount of volunteers, the whole the whole
Speaker 13: machine of it is just so much bigger. So win
Speaker 13: or lose. That is really interesting. There has not been
Speaker 13: any campaign like this in any city really, especially since
Speaker 13: Zorn started from zero that's important. It's not so much
Speaker 13: like a Brandon Johnson thing in Chicago, who is very
Speaker 13: close to the Teachers' Union. You really had a lot
Speaker 13: of institutions kind of bringing him up. And that was
Speaker 13: also an interesting race. Zoron, you know state assemblymen for
Speaker 13: four years pulling at zero percent. He built this from
Speaker 13: from scratch and with the help of DSA, but but
Speaker 13: he he really bootstrapped it and it became this massive
Speaker 13: thing very quickly.
Speaker 4: Well, to get a sense of what polls voters are
Speaker 4: concerned about when it comes to zorhand, you can probably
Speaker 4: look at the attack ads, because you know, the these
Speaker 4: super PACs that have twenty million bucks to spend, they
Speaker 4: don't just guess at what ads are going to resonate
Speaker 4: with voters. They they test these, you know, very deeply,
Speaker 4: and then they go with the ones that they think
Speaker 4: are going to work the best. I my my own
Speaker 4: gut if I without testing it was the New York
Speaker 4: Times one about lack of experience, and those other digs
Speaker 4: that's gonna be him, that's gonna that's huge, Like they're
Speaker 4: gonna that's gonna crush because you can say the New
Speaker 4: York Times says this about this guy, and for people
Speaker 4: who are following casually be like, oh, well, new York Times.
Speaker 4: You know, that's a pretty credible newspaper. And if they
Speaker 4: say that, I can't rank him.
Speaker 5: What else are the negative ads hitting him on?
Speaker 4: For a sense of what the left left's vulnerabilities.
Speaker 8: Are, He's been getting hit on defund the police.
Speaker 13: Zoron did support defunding the police, not running on that
Speaker 13: in this campaign. Notably has talked about hiring additional social
Speaker 13: workers to handle some mental health situations, but it's not
Speaker 13: called for any NYPD budget cuts at all. But he's
Speaker 13: on the record supporting defund So he's been getting hit
Speaker 13: very hard on that raising taxes, which actually don't think
Speaker 13: will be all that effective because he wants to raise
Speaker 13: the corporate tax rate to something that the state actually
Speaker 13: needs to do that the city itself can't do that,
Speaker 13: it needs state approval. But I also I don't think
Speaker 13: that's really unpopular, So I'm a bit skeptical. That almost
Speaker 13: seems like, you know, the Cuomo, the very wealthy Cuomo
Speaker 13: superpackbackers are telling you got to do something on the taxes.
Speaker 13: I think defunds certainly that that still can hurt, you know.
Speaker 13: I think Cuomo's message is effective and that he's not experienced.
Speaker 13: So you can say to the average vot or listen,
Speaker 13: do you want to hand the city over to a
Speaker 13: thirty three year old state legislator?
Speaker 8: You take away all the ideology.
Speaker 13: You can call him radical, you know, since he's also
Speaker 13: you know, he's a socialist, he's he's he's Muslims. So
Speaker 13: it's all the things you accused Obama of. He literally
Speaker 13: is these things and he's proud of it. So certainly
Speaker 13: you can you can move in that direction. You're seeing
Speaker 13: kind of dog whistling that way. But I would say
Speaker 13: the primary attacks are kind of what the New York
Speaker 13: Times said, versions of that this this guy is flimsy
Speaker 13: he's weak, he has no experience, he's not serious, he's
Speaker 13: a he's a playboy. It's it's that kind of framing,
Speaker 13: and Cuomo's the serious old man who's going to come
Speaker 13: in straighten everything out.
Speaker 8: He's the tough guy.
Speaker 13: For a lot of Liberals who are thinking about how
Speaker 13: to stand up to Trump, they think Cuoma, well, he's
Speaker 13: a bully, maybe he's thuggish, but we need a bully
Speaker 13: and someone thuggish. He's also from Queens to combat Donald Trump.
Speaker 13: So uh that that has been the framing. I think
Speaker 13: the most effective attacks are probably on his experience, because
Speaker 13: you can't spin around that he's young.
Speaker 8: He's very young.
Speaker 13: There's not been a mayor this young of New York
Speaker 13: City in literally over one hundred years. So that's that's
Speaker 13: just the fact. It's going to come down to what
Speaker 13: do voters think. Also, how many voters leave Cuomo off
Speaker 13: their ballots, how many leaders are on.
Speaker 8: Off their ballots.
Speaker 13: Each side has been has had a very concervative push
Speaker 13: to do this. Cuomo has leaned very hard of late
Speaker 13: into the Orthodox Jewish community, which actually doesn't like him
Speaker 13: all that much anymore, though he's extremely pro Israel. Because
Speaker 13: of COVID he imposed these lockdowns on Orthox Jewish neighborhoods
Speaker 13: in twenty twenty. There's a lot of bitterness over that.
Speaker 13: So late, I've been seeing a lot of videos from
Speaker 13: rabbis basically telling telling their communities. You know, I know
Speaker 13: you dislike Cuomo. I know you'd rather vote for Eric Adams.
Speaker 13: Eric Adams is not in this primary. You can vote
Speaker 13: from later. We've got to stop Zoran is an existential threat.
Speaker 13: So there's a lot of that rhetoric too. As a
Speaker 13: as a Muslim who's critical of Israel. There's been a
Speaker 13: lot of talk of how he can be terrible for
Speaker 13: the Jews, he can hurt the Jews, and that's also
Speaker 13: become an attack line in the final week.
Speaker 1: All right, Ross, last question, give us your prediction.
Speaker 13: Oh gosh, I don't love predictions. I think Cuomo's the favorite.
Speaker 13: I think he has the slight edge. I think there
Speaker 13: won't be a lot of clarity on election night, necessarily
Speaker 13: because you'll have the art, you'll have the we'll see
Speaker 13: an election night is the first place vote. So if
Speaker 13: Cuomo's up seven points, let's say, you're then gonna have
Speaker 13: to run the RCV calculation, which the way the Board
Speaker 13: of Elections does it.
Speaker 8: It can take some time, think at least a week.
Speaker 13: So if you remember four years ago, Eric Adams I
Speaker 13: think finished in first place with around thirty percent. Catherine Garcia,
Speaker 13: who is the runner up, was around twenty twenty one
Speaker 13: after OURCV. She lost by less than ten thousand votes.
Speaker 13: It's literally almost fifty to fifty. So my prediction is
Speaker 13: it's going to be very close. And also watch the
Speaker 13: general election. General election is typically very sleepy in New
Speaker 13: York City, not so here. Eric Adams, the once indicted,
Speaker 13: be leaguered mayor, is running as an independent, probably cannot win.
Speaker 13: Andrew Cuomo has an independent party ballot line he can
Speaker 13: run in the general election. Zoron could take the Working
Speaker 13: Families party line he could run the general election. There's
Speaker 13: also a Republican candidate as well, will get probably just
Speaker 13: under thirty percent. So my prediction is you could have
Speaker 13: a very topsy turvy general depending on what happens. And
Speaker 13: this race is going to get close, and election night
Speaker 13: will be fascinating one way or the other. If someone's up,
Speaker 13: if someone's down. I expect the margins to not be
Speaker 13: very big, and I expect us to have to wait
Speaker 13: to see how the RCV votes shake out, and then
Speaker 13: from their decisions will get made. Right, if Zoron wins
Speaker 13: by I'm making up a number twenty thousand votes after
Speaker 13: our CV, Andrew Cuomo is going to say, well, I'm
Speaker 13: going to run in the general and beat him. If
Speaker 13: Zoron loses by ten to twenty thousand votes fifty thousand votes,
Speaker 13: there will be pressure on him to run again because
Speaker 13: then the general election will be Andrew Cuomo, Eric Adams,
Speaker 13: Kurtis Sliwa progresses in the city will be like, these
Speaker 13: are all bad options. So it happened, No hard predictions,
Speaker 13: but just look out for all of that.
Speaker 5: If loses, would he have a ballot line anywhere?
Speaker 8: Yeah? The word yes, the word where he can give him.
Speaker 8: They can give him the ballot line.
Speaker 13: They can choose to give it to him, so he
Speaker 13: will have that option. Cuomo created his own ballot line.
Speaker 13: Eric Adams created.
Speaker 5: His own ballot.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's stupid.
Speaker 13: They stupids think Adams like stop anti semmonism or something.
Speaker 13: Support why yes, help help all women. So yeah, so
Speaker 13: they all have that option. So the general election is
Speaker 13: potentially very interesting. Now, if one Kendiate wins by a
Speaker 13: lot gets the Democratic nomination game over, but if it's
Speaker 13: close enough, each side.
Speaker 8: Will feel pressure to continue onward.
Speaker 5: That's his last ques last reason.
Speaker 4: Briefly, because we had brad Lander on the show earlier today,
Speaker 4: and you know he had that big arrest yesterday.
Speaker 5: He's endorsed sorehand. Does that How does that play in?
Speaker 13: I think it's good. It's good for Zoran. He needs
Speaker 13: brad Lander votes. Brad Lander right now is in the
Speaker 13: third place. It's kind of a distant third, but he's
Speaker 13: got a base. You know, he is a technocratic progressive.
Speaker 13: So there are people who like brad Lander who want
Speaker 13: him to be mayor, but they aren't sure about Zoron
Speaker 13: because of his inexperience. So for brad Lander to endorse him,
Speaker 13: I do think brings along some voters who will now
Speaker 13: put Zoron on their ballots.
Speaker 8: Does it help brad Lander?
Speaker 13: I think to an extent yes, is going to be
Speaker 13: a Zoran surge, and there's many people putting brad Lander
Speaker 13: on the ballots, so it'll go deeper into the RCV rounds.
Speaker 13: So I think I think it's mutually beneficial. I don't
Speaker 13: know if it helps brad Lander get over the hump.
Speaker 13: I mean, one challenge for Zoron in this race is
Speaker 13: the other candidates haven't performed that well. Cuomo has really
Speaker 13: been far ahead of all of them, and Zoron has
Speaker 13: ran to catch up. But third, fourth, fifth place, they're
Speaker 13: way way behind. Zoron might be in better position right
Speaker 13: now if someone like a Brad Lander or Scott Stringer
Speaker 13: Adrian Adams had really moved into a better pole position.
Speaker 13: But they really have not, so it's become a two
Speaker 13: horse race. And that's where you get the polarization, the
Speaker 13: extremely negative attacks, and the possibility of either Zoron pushing
Speaker 13: past Cuomo or Cuomo kind of beating him back at
Speaker 13: the last minute.
Speaker 5: Fascinating stuff.
Speaker 4: Ross Barkan, The Metropolitan Review Columns from New York Magazine.
Speaker 4: Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you all right, Emily,
Speaker 4: what about your prediction?
Speaker 1: Don't have a prediction. What do I care about? New
Speaker 1: York City?
Speaker 4: The Republicans, if they had a decent candidate, could actually
Speaker 4: win this time.
Speaker 5: I mean, no, they've won a bunch.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I guess right, quote decent candidate, I guess, decent candidate,
Speaker 7: palatable or Republican.
Speaker 4: They're nominating like a kind of a crank. Yeah, they
Speaker 4: didn't really take it.
Speaker 1: So it's an interesting guy, though. I wonder if you
Speaker 1: would come on the show.
Speaker 5: I bet you've never met an uninteresting crank.
Speaker 1: That's fair enough.
Speaker 5: I bet we can get him on the show though,
Speaker 5: let's do it, Curtis, come on.
Speaker 1: Isn't he the old school Guardian Angels?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 1: Yes, interesting. I think you two would hit it off.
Speaker 5: We would. This could have been the Republican's year, though
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe isn't Eric Adams a Republican?
Speaker 12: Now?
Speaker 5: Actually, shouldn't they give Adams the nomination?
Speaker 1: Well, as we were talking, maybe.
Speaker 5: Win as a Republican slash independent?
Speaker 1: Maybe?
Speaker 7: And now he owes a debt to Republicans, So who
Speaker 7: knows what you could get out of Republican Eric Adams
Speaker 7: if you are Donald Trump or the GOP. But actually,
Speaker 7: when we were talking to Ross, it occurs to me
Speaker 7: that in a general election roughly going to Sliwa as
Speaker 7: Ross predicted, I wonder if Zoron could start pulling from
Speaker 7: that vote, could be interesting, could get the mag of
Speaker 7: people over to universal childcare and all that.
Speaker 1: I don't know, it might be interesting to watch.
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