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Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist, we return to you with a classic episode,

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Speaker 1: a bit true crime, a bizarre series of unfortunate events

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Speaker 1: take us to Jefferson Davis Parish.

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Speaker 2: Guys, that's right, the town of Jennings, Louisiana wasn't a

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Speaker 2: particularly well known place at the time. In fact, a

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Speaker 2: lot of folks living in the US probably would have

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Speaker 2: lived their entire lives without ever having heard of it

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Speaker 2: until just a few years before we published this episode

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Speaker 2: on who killed the Jennings Eight.

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Speaker 3: It's a story of potentially some really bad stuff involving

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Speaker 3: possibly corruption within a local police force and someone trying

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Speaker 3: to cover up the truth.

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Speaker 2: Some real underbelly small town America underbelly stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, or you could look at it as a bunch

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Speaker 3: of super unfortunate and very sad deaths that we're not

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Speaker 3: related at all.

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Speaker 1: Let's see what you think, folks.

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Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is

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Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 4: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 4: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome back to the show. My name is.

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Speaker 1: Noel, our good friend, writer die colleague Matt Frederick is

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Speaker 1: on adventures but will be returning soon. They call me Ben.

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Speaker 1: We are joined as always with our super producer. Today

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Speaker 1: it is Seth Nicholas Johnson, So give him an audible

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Speaker 1: hello when you get the chance in the meantime, and

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Speaker 1: most importantly, you are here and that makes this stuff

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Speaker 1: they don't want you to know, Noel. I figured we'd

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Speaker 1: start off today's episode with an email from one of

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Speaker 1: our listeners. This comes to us from Claude G. Claude says, hey, guys,

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Speaker 1: I just listened to our latest episode about the possible

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Speaker 1: inspiration for True Detective. We did that one a while back.

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Speaker 1: Yep this, and Claude says, I enjoyed the episode, but

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Speaker 1: was wondering if you had heard of another theory about

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Speaker 1: the inspiration for the show. I was raised in Jennings, Louisiana.

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Speaker 1: I live a few minutes away now but still go

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Speaker 1: there multiple times a week. Jennings Claim to Fame, Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: is a multiple murder case titled by the media the

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Speaker 1: Jennings eight. Showtime has recently done a five part series

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Speaker 1: on it, and mentioned True Detective in one of the episodes.

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Speaker 1: My family and I are personally connected to the story,

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Speaker 1: as one of the victims was a cousin of ours. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: I was curious to see if you guys have heard

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Speaker 1: of the connection to the TV series and our case.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for your time, Claude, this is fascinating.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: We did know a little bit of this, but we

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Speaker 1: wanted to explore the case today. It's something that many

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Speaker 1: people have heard of but are maybe not intimately familiar with.

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Speaker 1: And for this sort of episode, we do need to

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Speaker 1: have a disclaimer at the top of the show.

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Speaker 2: It's true on today's episode dives into some pretty disturbing stuff,

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Speaker 2: stories of true crime, murdered drugs, and corruption. And the

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Speaker 2: episode contains at times quite graphic descriptions of violence and assault,

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Speaker 2: and it might not be suitable for all listeners. So

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Speaker 2: to start, what are the Jennings eight? In order to

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Speaker 2: answer this question, please travel with us to Jefferson Davis Parish, Louisiana.

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Speaker 1: Here are the facts Jefferson Davis Parish. It's located in

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Speaker 1: southwest Louisiana and it's a small place.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: A parish is Louisiana's version of a county. It has

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Speaker 1: a little more than thirty thousand residents. The parish is

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Speaker 1: a town called Jennings. It's the largest town in the area,

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Speaker 1: but the population is still just a little over ten

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Speaker 1: thousand according to the twenty ten census. It's home to

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Speaker 1: some notable individuals. I found one mysterious story here a

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Speaker 1: guy named Father Eugene John Herbert, who was a Jesuit missionary.

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Speaker 1: He disappeared in Sri Lanka in nineteen ninety during the

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Speaker 1: country's civil war. He has nothing to do with this

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Speaker 1: show today, as far as we know. Before the events

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Speaker 1: disclosed in today's episode. Jefferson Davis, which was named after

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Speaker 1: the former president of the Confederacy. It was one of

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Speaker 1: those places you probably wouldn't be too familiar with unless

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Speaker 1: you lived in the area. It made the news a

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Speaker 1: couple of times for things like corrupt ticketing by local

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Speaker 1: law enforcement. You know, we've all heard that thing where

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Speaker 1: if you're a stranger to town, you're driving by and

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Speaker 1: you've got plates from outside of the area, Yep.

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Speaker 2: Big old red flag on your back.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's happened. You've driven through some of those

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Speaker 1: areas in your travels, maybe to Athens or Augusta.

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Speaker 2: Sure, I mean, you know, I mean, I would I

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Speaker 2: would imagine there'd be an argument to make that it's

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Speaker 2: some form of profiling, but it's just, you know, it's

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Speaker 2: the rules kind of it's it's like something you should expect, probably.

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Speaker 1: And it's kind of difficult to prove too. Like many

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Speaker 1: rural areas, you wouldn't see Jennings often in the national news.

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Speaker 1: In fact, you could live your entire life here in

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Speaker 1: the United States never know this place existed.

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Speaker 2: Jefferson Davis isn't particularly large. In fact, it's not particularly

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Speaker 2: wealthy either, and like so many other places in the

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Speaker 2: United States these days, it had a pretty seedy underbelly.

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Speaker 2: In the absence of prosperity, economic opportunity jobs. You it's

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Speaker 2: a vacuum that is typically filled with drugs and crime

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Speaker 2: and other types of black market trading, which grew into

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Speaker 2: kind of an open secret in Jefferson Davis. Everyone knew

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Speaker 2: what went down on South Main Street, but it wasn't

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Speaker 2: necessarily something that was going to get shut down by

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Speaker 2: the cops, you know, on the regular right.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, it was an open secret, especially in South Jennings.

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Speaker 1: Life in this small parish seems set to continue as

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Speaker 1: it always had, and even to continue along a bit

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Speaker 1: of a slow economic decline until that is, residents began

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Speaker 1: finding the bodies. We're going to explore the initial murders,

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Speaker 1: or the discoveries of the bodies even before they were

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Speaker 1: termed murders. On May twentieth, two thousand and five, there's

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Speaker 1: a fisherman, a retired men named Jerry Jackson, who discovers

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Speaker 1: the first body. It's floating in a canal off Highway

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Speaker 1: eleven twenty six on the Outskirts Jenning's. This body is

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Speaker 1: identified as one Loretta Lynn Casson Chasson Lewis. Lewis had

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Speaker 1: been seen alive three days earlier.

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Speaker 2: Because of the amount that her body had decomposed, authorities

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Speaker 2: weren't able to conclusively determine her cause of death, but

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Speaker 2: they suspected asphyxiation. And as you'll recall from our previous

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Speaker 2: episode on the Smiley Face murder theory, drowning as homicide

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Speaker 2: can can be a pretty tough nut to crack. It's

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Speaker 2: very difficult to prove, just like it's hard to prove

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Speaker 2: that it cop pulls you over because you had out

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Speaker 2: of state place.

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Speaker 1: Yet the court of public opinion was already in full swing,

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Speaker 1: and there's some pretty nasty victim blaming that happens, especially

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Speaker 1: in the media, because, according to the residents in the know,

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Speaker 1: Lewis was living what was often euphemistically described as a

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Speaker 1: quote high risk lifestyle. She was addicted to crack cocaine.

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Speaker 1: She was another casualty of the drug trade running along

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Speaker 1: that quarriter of I ten and she had turned to

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Speaker 1: the sex trade to feed her addiction. And at first

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Speaker 1: this was seen as a tragedy, and it is, But

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Speaker 1: less than a few months later, residents and law enforcement

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Speaker 1: started to recognize that this discovery wasn't just a singular tragedy.

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Speaker 1: It was something else, the beginning of a pattern.

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Speaker 2: It's right, a group of friends hunting bullfrogs, which is

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Speaker 2: the thing that you do, and Jefferson Davis for fun.

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Speaker 2: They found the corpse of a thirty year old Mestine

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Speaker 2: Patterson Emmstine Patterson a few weeks later, floating in a

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Speaker 2: different canal. This particular victim's cause of death was a

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Speaker 2: bit easier to figure out. Her throat had been cut,

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Speaker 2: her body brutalized. Two men, a Byron Chad Jones and

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Speaker 2: Lawrence Nixon, are held for a brief amount of time

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Speaker 2: on charges of second degree murder, but these charges were

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Speaker 2: of course dropped and they were.

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Speaker 1: Released, and so we have two. We have two discoveries

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and five years pass. On March eighteenth,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, another body is discovered, that of

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Speaker 1: twenty one year old Kristin Gary Lopez. She is discovered

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Speaker 1: in a canal, and like the Lewis case, medical examiners

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Speaker 1: cannot conclusively nail down a cause of death, and like

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Speaker 1: in the Patterson case, two people are briefly detained. This

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Speaker 1: time it's a guy named Frankie Richard who is described

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Speaker 1: alternately as a retired oil rig worker, strip club owner,

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Speaker 1: and a PEMP, along with his niece Hannah Connor. These

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Speaker 1: two are later released, just like in the Patterson case

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Speaker 1: due to lack of evidence.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. And over the next year, half four

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Speaker 2: more bodies turned up in and around Jennings, all fitting

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Speaker 2: the same profile, the same unfortunate kind of forgotten demographic,

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Speaker 2: poor young with a history of drug addiction. Rap sheets

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Speaker 2: a mile long, typically charges involving the sex trade or

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Speaker 2: other criminal activities. We have Whitney des Bois, it was

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Speaker 2: twenty six, Laconia Muggy Brown twenty three, who, like Patterson,

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Speaker 2: had her throat slit as well Crystal Say benoit Zeno

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Speaker 2: twenty four, Brittany Gary seventeen, who was the cousin of

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Speaker 2: Kristin Gary Lopez. Most of these bodies showed almost no

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Speaker 2: signs of trauma, and the medical examiner's ruled asphyxiation as

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Speaker 2: the cause of death.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting other than the muggy case with the slit throat,

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Speaker 1: so the law has to respond again. Jeffers Sin Davis

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Speaker 1: Parish has a small population. This death rate, this murder rate,

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Speaker 1: is insane. So in December of two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 1: the Jefferson Davis Parish Sheriff's Department, under the leadership of

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Speaker 1: one Sheriff Ricky Edwards, announces that they're forming a task

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Speaker 1: force to investigate what they're now openly calling murders. His

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Speaker 1: task force is referred to as Multi Agency Investigative Team

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Speaker 1: or MAIIT. They include local officials, state officials, and some FEDS.

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Speaker 1: Their results leave much to be desired. In August of

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Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, an eighth victim is found, Nicole Gillery,

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Speaker 1: twenty six years old. The body is discovered off I

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Speaker 1: ten in the adjacent Acadia Parish. Later that fall, Sheriff

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Speaker 1: Edwards notes that these deaths may be the work of

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Speaker 1: what they describe as a common offender, a single person

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Speaker 1: committing the hides. In other words, although they would hate

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Speaker 1: to use the phrase, I'm sure a serial killer. So

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Speaker 1: that's where we're at at that point. Between two thousand

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Speaker 1: and five and two thousand and nine, eight women have disappeared,

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Speaker 1: only to be found dead. Shortly thereafter, the task Force

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Speaker 1: more than doubles their reward for information from thirty five

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars to eighty five thousand dollars, and the victims

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Speaker 1: become collectively known in the zeitgeist as the Jeff Davis

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Speaker 1: eight or later the Jennings eight. But this is only

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the story.

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Speaker 2: In January of twenty ten, the New York Times reported

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Speaker 2: on the deaths, and this article caught the attention of

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Speaker 2: a New Orleans based journalist named Ethan Brown. In twenty eleven,

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Speaker 2: Brown went to Jennings to do his own digging, his

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Speaker 2: own interviews, his own investigations. Brown becomes obsessed with the

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Speaker 2: story and convinced that there's more to it than what

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Speaker 2: is already been reported.

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Speaker 1: And we'll explore Brown's investigation after a word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. So as this journalist Ethan

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Speaker 1: Brown pours over public records, as he interviews numerous people

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Speaker 1: affiliated with the victims, as he interviews members of the

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Speaker 1: task force and even suspects in the crimes, he begins

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Speaker 1: to think this was not, in fact the work of

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Speaker 1: a serial killer, but of someone else. And it starts.

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Speaker 1: It starts when he begins connecting dots between the victims,

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Speaker 1: because remember, this is a small town, and there's a

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Speaker 1: reason we have stereotypes about small towns. One of the

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Speaker 1: most common stereotypes about small town is that there are

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Speaker 1: no real secrets, that everyone knows everyone somehow, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of our fellow listeners tuning in today probably have

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Speaker 1: lived in a small town and can attest to that,

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Speaker 1: you know. And then also there's the argument that every

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Speaker 1: town you live in becomes smaller the longer you live there.

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Speaker 1: So he Brown starts to note that all these victims

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Speaker 1: are connected. Noel, you mentioned that they had that demographic

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Speaker 1: in common, right, and they had similar issues with addiction

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Speaker 1: and money. But he also finds that in addition to

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Speaker 1: that first point, secondly, they had all served to some

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Speaker 1: degree or another as police informants. What are they called cis.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, confidential informants. That's right. And that's the thing. I

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Speaker 2: mean a lot of times, folks that are doing this

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Speaker 2: kind of informing they know each other and they're aware

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Speaker 2: of each other and maybe have each other's backs in

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Speaker 2: that respect, because it is such a dangerous situation to

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Speaker 2: be in. Two were actually related and another two lived

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Speaker 2: together for a time. In eight fourth, we've got multiple

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Speaker 2: relatives who told Brown the vicvictims had appeared unusually anxious

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Speaker 2: or frightened before disappearing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that fourth point, to be fair, is a

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Speaker 1: little maybe a little more subjective, because these people were

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Speaker 1: living hard, difficult lives. You know, there were probably plenty

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Speaker 1: of normal reasons to be anxious or frightened. But still

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Speaker 1: it fits the pattern. Let's pause here now, I know

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Speaker 1: what you're saying, folks. Didn't you all just have a

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Speaker 1: commercial break? Well, we do, but we also have an

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Speaker 1: important announcement. You see, our good pal and colleague, Matt

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Speaker 1: Frederick has actually returned from his adventure.

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Speaker 3: Matt, I materialized, I'm here.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know we could all do. I thought that

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Speaker 2: was just a ben power.

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Speaker 3: Well, I heard you guys talking about Ethan Brown, and

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Speaker 3: I was like, oh man, I gotta get in there.

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Speaker 1: That's I mean, it is crazy that you showed up,

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Speaker 1: but we're glad you're here.

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Speaker 2: It's also a very niche fascination that to have triggered

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Speaker 2: your spidey sense.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I have been reading about this case ever since.

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Speaker 3: I believe it was a listener mail, right, claud Yeah,

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Speaker 3: sent us down this rabbit hole and it Yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: been disturbing me ever since. So thanks so much for

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Speaker 3: sending it to us. And also no, thank you, but

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Speaker 3: thank you.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we we opened the show with Claude's email, and

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Speaker 1: now we're I don't think we need to catch you

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Speaker 1: up on any of this, Matt, because you know it

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Speaker 1: pretty well. Uh So, now we're at this point where

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Speaker 1: Brown is making connections. Right, He's already He's connected some

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Speaker 1: stuff about He's cooperated some statements from relatives. He's noticed

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Speaker 1: that there is a web of connection between the victims.

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Speaker 1: He also finds another key connection, the Boudreaux in just

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Speaker 1: off of Interstate ten. It connects Houston to New Orleans.

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Speaker 1: Could you tell us a little bit about that one?

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Speaker 3: Uh yeah, so this is like one of the hubs

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Speaker 3: or possibly the hub of a whole drug and sex

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Speaker 3: like sex trade drug what do you call it? Not empires,

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Speaker 3: but just where drugs are distributed pretty heavily. Police are

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Speaker 3: always there busting people for various things, generally for the

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Speaker 3: sexu rate or for drugs. Surprise, surprise. And several of

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Speaker 3: the victims that have been identified in this case or

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Speaker 3: you know that are that are out there that he

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Speaker 3: is kind of bringing together here, they've received complaints based

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Speaker 3: on their behavior at this location. When you say, when

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Speaker 3: we say complaints based on their behavior, we're talking, you know,

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Speaker 3: generally about sex work.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, also loud hotel parties. Yes, that's occurring here.

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Speaker 1: Depending on where you've spent time in the US or Bride,

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Speaker 1: you've probably seen motels like this before, typically right off

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Speaker 1: the interstate, a little beaten down right. Yeah, and they

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Speaker 1: you know, they don't have the best reputation, and they've

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Speaker 1: earned that not the best reputation.

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Speaker 3: Well, and here's the deal too. It's a lot of

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Speaker 3: times a community of its own a motel like that.

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Speaker 3: So a lot of the the victims here are sharing

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Speaker 3: this this web of people that they all are acquaintances with.

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Speaker 3: And again it's like, you know, it's it's also small town, right,

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Speaker 3: It's a this whole this whole place we're talking about

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Speaker 3: is small town. So all those rules apply, and in

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Speaker 3: this case, within the drug trade itself, within the sex trade.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's true a lot of those very let's

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Speaker 2: call them affordable hotels, I guess for lack of a

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Speaker 2: better term, people stay there for long periods of time.

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Speaker 2: They rent rooms weekly, and often there is a like

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Speaker 2: you said, Matt, kind of a hub where it's people

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Speaker 2: kind of go in and out, like you know, John's

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Speaker 2: will show up to this particular motel, to a particular

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Speaker 2: room to get you know, sex work services, and same

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Speaker 2: with with drugs, and like you said, it becomes almost

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Speaker 2: this community where everyone knows each other, everyone is aware

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Speaker 2: of each other's kind of cummings and goings.

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Speaker 1: Right exactly. These are good points because the victims also

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Speaker 1: share a web of mutual acquaintances. The thing about these

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Speaker 1: small town rules, the stereotype I mentioned earlier about everyone

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Speaker 1: knowing everyone, is that this kind of rule applies to

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Speaker 1: the criminal side of a small town as well, and

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Speaker 1: it applies in the drug trade. That's what leads Ethan

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Speaker 1: Brown to interview a friend of the victims self professed.

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Speaker 1: The man we mentioned earlier a strip club owner named

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Speaker 1: Frankie Richards, and in his interview with Brown and with others,

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Speaker 1: Richard paints Jennings in a grisly light. The drugs, the

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Speaker 1: sex work, and the crooked cops, he argues, are operating

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Speaker 1: more or less openly in Jennings and have been for

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Speaker 1: some time before the killings begin. So Brown also finds

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Speaker 1: that the rot in Jennings Luisi does not stop at

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Speaker 1: the dirty banks of the canals. In twenty fourteen, an

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Speaker 1: amazing piece he wrote on medium dot com, we have

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Speaker 1: a quote that helps walk us through his opinion on

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Speaker 1: the law enforcement.

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Speaker 2: Since the early nineteen nineties, there have been nearly twenty

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Speaker 2: unsolved homicides, including the slain eight women in Jefferson Davis Parish,

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Speaker 2: A statistic and a competent sheriff's department that would be

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Speaker 2: regarded as both a ridiculously low clearance rate and an

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Speaker 2: astonishingly high murder rate for a small area.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but Brown does not attribute these disturbing statistics to

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Speaker 1: incompetence alone. As a matter of fact, he explicitly calls

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Speaker 1: out law enforcement in this article.

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Speaker 3: Yes, he says, quote one fact is clear. Local law

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Speaker 3: enforcement is far too steeped in misconduct and corruption. And

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Speaker 3: this extends to the task force, which is dominated by

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Speaker 3: detectives and deputies from the sheriff's office to run an

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Speaker 3: investigation with the integrity that the murdered women and their

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Speaker 3: families deserve after nearly a decade in which no one

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Speaker 3: has been brought to justice.

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Speaker 1: And we'll have more on law enforcement, plenty more actually

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Speaker 1: in a moment, but let's let's follow Brown a bit further.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's learn more about these suspects. So Brown finds

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Speaker 1: that the suspects have something similar going on with their

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Speaker 1: web of relationships. While there are different suspects for different

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Speaker 1: cases or different you know, specific murders, the suspects seem

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Speaker 1: increasingly interrelated. Even Frankie Richard was briefly charged in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and seven for the murder of Lopez, but the

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Speaker 1: charges were dropped when the witness statements were conflicting and

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Speaker 1: then when a key piece of physical evidence was mishandled.

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Speaker 1: And it's definitely yeah, and Natt, you have you have

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Speaker 1: some insight on Frankie Richards. Correct.

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Speaker 3: Well, it comes from a series titled Murder in the Bayou,

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Speaker 3: and there are just quotes there from Frankie Richard that

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Speaker 3: just I wonder how much of it makes me feel

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Speaker 3: as though he's like doing something morally wrong. And I

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Speaker 3: just feel like there's some some semblance of distrust in

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Speaker 3: him just in general because of that, or it's just

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Speaker 3: because of the way he words things. And I don't

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Speaker 3: know how much of that can actually be attributed back

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Speaker 3: to you know, the Jennings eight murders, right, And I

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Speaker 3: don't think any of it can, because it's just a

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Speaker 3: feeling that I'm getting and reading these things, and I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna read this quote. You'll understand what I'm saying, but

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Speaker 3: it's going to be a little bit. I'm gonna use

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Speaker 3: different words for what he's saying. My most memorable way

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Speaker 3: of making a living was selling p We sold p

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Speaker 3: any and every effing way we could. I did not

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Speaker 3: pimp them girls. I introduced them to older men that

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Speaker 3: wanted to spend some money on a young gal. I'm

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Speaker 3: making sure they are getting their money, making sure they

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Speaker 3: are not getting hurt.

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Speaker 1: Broker in sex is pimping, right, That's not the quote.

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Speaker 1: That's just a fact.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know. Well, and also just the way again,

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Speaker 3: like maybe it's reading it. Maybe it's just I'm imagining

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Speaker 3: him saying that, and just that the way he so

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Speaker 3: nonchalantly is talking about it and then reflects back on

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Speaker 3: it as in like, oh man, this was a great

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Speaker 3: time in my life.

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Speaker 1: Well he's also he's he's a free man, but he's

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Speaker 1: he's lived a hard life. If you hear any audio

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Speaker 1: with him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, and I'm not discounting that he's

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Speaker 3: led a hard life. It's just I'm just talking specifically

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Speaker 3: about personal feeling for sure. And and then here's one

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Speaker 3: more quote. Just when we're talking about Frankie Richards, a

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Speaker 3: family member of his, a niece and goddaughter named Hannah,

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Speaker 3: talked about her uncle in this way, and this is

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Speaker 3: a quote again from that same series. Uncle Frankie was

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Speaker 3: like the guy you didn't mess with, you know, he

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Speaker 3: took care of business. Which again it's more of like

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Speaker 3: a character witness kind of thing. It has nothing to

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Speaker 3: do with whether or not he actually did any of

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Speaker 3: these crimes. It's just perhaps is one of the major

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Speaker 3: reasons why he was a suspect, along with all the

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Speaker 3: other evidence that was involved. But you can just maybe

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Speaker 3: there's just this air about him that would make him

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Speaker 3: look good for it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was. He did have knowledge, carnal and

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Speaker 1: otherwise of people who would later go on to be

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Speaker 1: murdered in this course of events. There were other people

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Speaker 1: charged in these cases, as we said, the men charged

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Speaker 1: in the Patterson case Byron Chad Jones and Lawrence Nixon.

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Speaker 1: He got off because of what may have been police incompetence,

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Speaker 1: you could call it that, But it's sort of a

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Speaker 1: glass half empty, glass half full situation because our journalist

401
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Speaker 1: Brown learned that the sheriff's office did not test the

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Speaker 1: alleged crime scene until fifteen months after Patterson's murder, and

403
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Speaker 1: they were unable to demonstrate the presence of blood. Surprise, surprise.

404
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Speaker 1: If you wait more than a year, that kind of

405
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Speaker 1: organic evidence can get increasingly more difficult to detect. He

406
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Speaker 1: also found evidence that other street level criminals in Jenning's,

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Speaker 1: especially people who were associated with Frankie Richard, were suspected

408
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Speaker 1: in some of the other murders, but nothing came of it.

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Speaker 1: This task force was conducting exhaustive interviews, nothing came of it.

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Speaker 1: The law found no credible suspects. And here's the thing, though,

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Speaker 1: corruption or incompetence because what Brown starts calling the jeff

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Speaker 1: Davis Eight didn't just give info on the drug trade

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Speaker 1: to the police when they were cis. They apparently gave

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Speaker 1: authorities information about other women in the trade and the

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Speaker 1: community who would later turn up dead and be part

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Speaker 1: of the Jefferson Davis Eight murders. Laconia Brown, the fifth victim,

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Speaker 1: was interrogated about the two thousand and five killing of

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Speaker 1: Ernestine Patterson, you know, as you will call the second victim.

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Speaker 1: Brown said that he had Brown is not Ethan Brown.

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Speaker 1: Our journalist is not related to Laconia Muggy Brown. But

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Speaker 1: he found a task force report where one of the

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Speaker 1: witnesses claims that Brown spotted the body of Loretta Lewis,

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Speaker 1: the first victim floating in that canal before the fishermen

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Speaker 1: found her body there in May of two thousand and five,

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Speaker 1: and then in two thousand and six, detectives who are

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Speaker 1: looking into that first murder also interrogated Kristen Gary Lopez,

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Speaker 1: who later becomes the third victim, and Brown correctly false

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Speaker 1: the task force for not immediately noticing this troubling cavalcade

429
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Speaker 1: of red flags. Here's what literally was happening women were

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Speaker 1: being questioned in murder cases and then shortly thereafter they

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Speaker 1: were turning up dead.

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Speaker 3: It's really tough because you never want to believe that

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Speaker 3: law enforcement, you know, could possibly even just be turning

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Speaker 3: an eye of what blind eye, right, You never want

435
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 3: to believe that that could be happening. And we're certainly

436
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,479
Speaker 3: not saying that is what's happening, but just from the

437
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 3: reporting of Ethan Brown, it definitely is making me personally

438
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 3: question a lot of this stuff. And then you move

439
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 3: on to the last victim, Nicole Gillory. She's, you know,

440
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 3: another person who had a rap sheet that was pretty

441
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 3: extensive with charges that were repeatedly dropped, which is something

442
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 3: that should pique your interest in what's called as a

443
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 3: nole prosequi. It's a ruling from the District Attorney's office,

444
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 3: the DA, and it just means to be unwilling to pursue.

445
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. So we're we're prosecutors, and we're we're not saying

446
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: that there's no sand to the charges, but for one

447
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: reason or another, usually internal, we have decided not to prosecute.

448
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it could be we don't want to put

449
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 3: resources into this, or for one reason or another it

450
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 3: could be that maybe there's something happening behind the scenes

451
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 3: with this person that's being charged as let's say, a

452
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 3: CI or something.

453
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 4: Right.

454
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: This is often used as a way to uh, It's

455
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: often used as way to trade favors. You tell us

456
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: about this other unrelated case off the books, and then

457
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: we'll make this, you know, this possession charge something small

458
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: time go away. Guillory's mother, Barbara, noted that her daughter

459
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: was increasingly paranoid in the days leading up to her disappearance,

460
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: and one Task Force witness told Ethan Brown that giy

461
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: Nicole Gilery had said she knew who killed the other girls,

462
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: the other seven women. To this day, Barbara Guilery believes

463
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: her daughter was murdered not by a serial killer, but

464
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: by someone inside law enforcement because her daughter knew too

465
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: much about the ongoing corruption. We even have a quote

466
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: from Barbara here which is pretty You can tell that

467
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: she has certitude about Yes, this is not something she suspects.

468
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: She used to tell us all the time. It was

469
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 2: the police killing the girls. That's what Barbara said. And

470
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 2: we would reply Nicole a name, something writes a letter

471
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 2: and leaves it somewhere, let us know. We can help you, no, Mama,

472
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 2: it's too far gone, it's too big. I'd rather y'all

473
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 2: not know nothing. That way, nothing can happen to y'all.

474
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 2: She knew, she knew, she knew, and that's why they

475
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 2: killed her.

476
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: Brown found other similar reports and still at this point,

477
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: this is all you know. Witness testimony, and witness testimony

478
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: can can be unreliable, right, it can trend toward anecdote

479
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: to memory is a tricky, treacherous thing. But when you

480
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: find multiple reports corroborating similar accounts, it becomes something you

481
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: cannot ignore. Gail Brown, for instance, a sister of Muggy Brown, said,

482
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: shortly before her sister was killed, she told her family

483
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: she was investigating a murder with a cop, and this

484
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: cop was I believe, supposed to give her five hundred

485
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: dollars for information. But Gail also believes law enforcement murdered

486
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: her sister. So what's going on here? Why is a

487
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: task force composed of local and state level and federal

488
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: authorities pushing a narrative about a serial killer when multiple

489
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: relatives and surviving witnesses are saying the same people or

490
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: some of the same people investigating these murders are the

491
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: same people who committed them will explore this after a

492
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, and we're back sort of.

493
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 3: Yes. I mean we've been talking about how there are

494
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 3: all these witnesses and within this room one of ours

495
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 3: has left. We have gained a witness that's me, and

496
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 3: we've lost a witness, which is Noel Brown.

497
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm starting to wonder what you guys are getting

498
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: up to.

499
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's interesting when you were not here

500
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 3: recently and the two of us were in the room

501
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 3: and we were talking with everyone who's also gathered here

502
00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 3: right now, just about you know, your mysterious ways. You know,

503
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 3: I don't want to surprise you, Ben, but I think

504
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 3: we are starting to develop some mysterious ways of our own.

505
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: Perhaps it's a sketchiness by osmosis, right, yes, proximity. And

506
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: you know I noticed this didn't happen until Seth you started,

507
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: you started producing this show.

508
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 3: He's our guy on the inside, and he's he's got.

509
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: This weird kind of malevolent smirk on while he's he's knitting.

510
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: What this is true? Yeah, Seth, Seth is knitting.

511
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,479
Speaker 3: You think that's knitting, dude, I don't know. He is.

512
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 3: He is stringing together thought Tulpa's right now, he's making

513
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 3: a weapon.

514
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: I like it. I don't know, no, I like it.

515
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 2: I like it.

516
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 3: You know.

517
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: It reminds me of the Three Fates story. Right, well, well,

518
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: it's beIN a golden thread in there for us man,

519
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: you know, the fate of heroes something, so it will

520
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: pick up. We do not know whether our good compatriot

521
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:06,479
Speaker 1: Nole is related to our journalist here Ethan Brown, but

522
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: hopefully noah, we'll be returning soon. And here we arrive

523
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,959
Speaker 1: at the point Brown has to ask himself, is this

524
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: a matter of incompetence or is it a matter of insidiousness?

525
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: You know, is it just a bunch of people who

526
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: are terrible at their jobs or is it something more malevolent?

527
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 3: Well? Yeah, and you know what we recall in the

528
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 3: beginning there it definitely or you at least have to

529
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 3: give a bit of the benefit of the doubt and say, okay,

530
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 3: this is if something is happening, it's probably incompetence. And now,

531
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 3: as he's gone further and further and further into this,

532
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 3: he's thinking it's.

533
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: More corruption, right, And along the way he is starting

534
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: to get warning signs, little threats, cryptic hints. We should, also,

535
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: of course, to be completely fair, say that it's easy

536
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: for someone on the outside without knowledge of law enforcement

537
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: investigative processes, to say something is incompetent because law enforcement

538
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 1: has to labor under a distinct set of rules. And

539
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: there's one primary disadvantage that law enforcement always has, which

540
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: is in theory, law enforcement has to play by the

541
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: rules and the bad guys do not. Yes, So if

542
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: there's something that seems off kilter, if there's something that

543
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: seems like it doesn't add up, just like any anytime

544
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: you investigate something like this, you have to realize that

545
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: what can appear to be conspiracy can often be explained

546
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: by incompetence or mistake or user error. Essentially, yeah, or just.

547
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 3: A regulation didn't allow for one thing or another.

548
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: To happen right right, or because of a technical problem

549
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: with a chain of command for evidence. For instance, someone

550
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: that everyone knows is a murderer walks free. That happens. Yeah,

551
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 1: that happens because the law is not perfect. So Brown

552
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 1: does his due diligence and he says, you know what,

553
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: this could have been incompetence. But incompetence does not explain

554
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: the enormity of what's happening here in Louisiana. He says,

555
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: what appears to be incompetence might be out and out corruption.

556
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: And this is when he begins to learn what we

557
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: should call the oral history of the dark side of Jennings, Louisiana.

558
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 1: The old street heads, people have been in and out

559
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 1: of the system for decades. They tell him that corruption

560
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: in this in this little part of Louisiana dates all

561
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: the way back to the nineteen seventies when cops got

562
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,879
Speaker 1: involved on the other side of the drug trade where

563
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: they were you know, they were selling the drugs or

564
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: getting a.

565
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 3: Viig right, Yeah, or at least allowing it to occur

566
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 3: with some beneficial thing.

567
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:57,879
Speaker 2: Right.

568
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 3: But then he keeps going down the rabbit hole about

569
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 3: the local law enforcement, right, and we've got a.

570
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: Quote, Yeah, we've got a quote. As he's going down

571
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 1: the rabbit hole, he learns more and more. We pulled

572
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: just a few examples I thought were powerful to show

573
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: you that if there is corruption related to the murder

574
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: of the Jefferson Davis eight, then this corruption itself is

575
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: part of a larger pattern. It didn't happen out of

576
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: the blue. That's again, if law enforcement is responsible for

577
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: the murders. Here's the quote. Brown writes. In March of

578
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two, local men burglarized the sheriff's office, making

579
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:43,439
Speaker 1: off with a staggering three hundred pounds of marijuana. When

580
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: investigators interviewed one of the burglars, according to court documents,

581
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: he named a surprising pair of accomplices, Frankie Richard and

582
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: a man named Ted Gary. Ted Gary is interesting because

583
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: he was the chief deputy sheriff at the time. Brown

584
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: notes that there were no charges ever brought against Richard

585
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: and Gary.

586
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 3: Mm and let's just keep going here because there's another

587
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 3: quote quote. Three years later, in nineteen ninety three, Sheriff

588
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:18,280
Speaker 3: Dallas Cormier pleaded guilty and federal court to one count

589
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 3: of obstruction of justice after he was charged with crimes

590
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 3: ranging from improper dealings with inmates to using public funds

591
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 3: to buy trucks, tires, and guns for himself.

592
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 1: And then, in October of two thousand and three, eight

593
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: female cops on the Jennings force filed a civil rights

594
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 1: lawsuit against the Jennings police chief, Donald Lucky de Luche,

595
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: and then a bunch of other male cops and the

596
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: city of Jennings itself, and they said there were widespread

597
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: acts of sexual violence and harassment. Amongst the allegations in

598
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: the complaint, there were things like a captain who would

599
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: shake his genitals at female officers and say things like,

600
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 1: you know, I like to lick as you said, Matt

601
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: p I can numb it all night. People forced oral

602
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 1: sex on female officers, a lieutenant who waived a knife

603
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 1: at a female officer saying that you know, he was

604
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: going to cut her up. And then in January twenty thirteen,

605
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,439
Speaker 1: think about this, this goes back from nineteen ninety these

606
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:30,240
Speaker 1: specific examples to twenty thirteen. Twenty thirteen, a former police chief,

607
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: Johnny Lassiter, gets hit with a ton of charges after

608
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: Louisiana State Police find forty five hundred dollars in cash,

609
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: eighteen hundred pills, more than three hundred and eighty grams

610
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: of cocaine, and pounds of marijuana missing from the department's

611
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: evidence room. Wow, the evidence room, by the way, is

612
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: a sieve.

613
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's exactly well. And who knows how many officers

614
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 3: were actually involved in the you know, movement of all

615
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 3: those materials that were found missing, right, I mean the

616
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 3: sheriff is blamed there in that case, because this is

617
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 3: your evidence room.

618
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 1: And I think it's so intellectually lazy and tempting when

619
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: we hear these stories to say, well, all cops are bad,

620
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: or all these people, everybody who works at this department

621
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 1: from the bottom up, they're all rotten. It's jerks all

622
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,439
Speaker 1: the way up and jerks all the way down. That's

623
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: not true. In this case. There's a there's a former

624
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: sergeant named Jesse Ewing. In two thousand and seven, he

625
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,399
Speaker 1: hears that two female inmates at the city jail want

626
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: to talk because they say they have knowledge about the

627
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: murders and that higher ranking officers were directly involved at

628
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: least in the cover up of the murders. At this time,

629
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 1: again in two thousand and seven, if we remember our timeline,

630
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: there are four victims.

631
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 3: And this has really got Ewing. You know, he's got it.

632
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,760
Speaker 3: It's got his mind really stirred up because he's already

633
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 3: had a lot of suspicions about stuff that's been going on,

634
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 3: or things that he's felt were possibly going on. He

635
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 3: was concerned that the recording of you know, the interviews,

636
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,439
Speaker 3: the tapes of these two particular inmates, might you know,

637
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 3: disappear in the same way that all this stuff like

638
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 3: the drugs, the cash, all those things in the evidence

639
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 3: locker and the evidence room, all that stuff have been disappearing.

640
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 3: He was thinking, somebody's just going to erase this from

641
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 3: the records. So he ends up giving the tapes to

642
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 3: a private investigator named kirkman Nard, and then he in

643
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 3: turn sent them on to the Federal Bureau of Investigation

644
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:36,720
Speaker 3: office in Lake Charles.

645
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:42,479
Speaker 1: This plan backfires. It turns out that Ewing is right

646
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 1: not to trust his fellow officers and his colleagues because

647
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 1: the tapes end back up with the Task Force m

648
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: ai T and Sergeant Ewing is concerned that there will

649
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: be reprisals if he goes through the regular channels. That's

650
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 1: why I went through a PI to the FBI. It

651
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 1: turns out he was right, because as soon as those

652
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 1: tapes end up at MAIIT, the Jefferson Davis District Attorney

653
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: Office charges this sergeant with malfeasance in office as well

654
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: as a trumped up charge of sexual misconduct. One of

655
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: the female inmates who's on the audio tapes says that

656
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: he touches her inappropriately while they are recording these charges

657
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 1: are later dismissed. The tapes contained specific information about the

658
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: murders of Dubois and Lopez, including allegations that law enforcement

659
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 1: helped cover up the role of one Frankie Richard in

660
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 1: at least one of the murders. So we get to

661
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,919
Speaker 1: a bit of secondhand information here, but it's interesting walk

662
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: with us on this. So one of the people on

663
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: the tapes, who remains publicly unidentified today, says that she

664
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 1: heard from a different person working in the sex trade

665
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: that Richard and his niece Hannah Connor are the ones

666
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 1: who killed Whitney Dubois. And Furthermore, this sex worker, Tracy,

667
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: says that she was there the night it happened. She

668
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: saw it occurring. She says they'd all been getting high

669
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 1: and when Dubois refused Richard's sexual advances, he got aggressive.

670
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,439
Speaker 1: He started fighting with her, and when she started fighting back,

671
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: he got on top of her and began punching her.

672
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: According to this inmate, that that's when the niece held

673
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: held Dubois's head back and drowned her. Ordinarily, you could

674
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: see why this should be treated with skepticism, right, Yeah,

675
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: Like I'm an inmate in a jail, I'm telling you that,

676
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 1: I'm telling you something someone else said to me and

677
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 1: I wasn't there, and it's just another person that I

678
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 1: know from the streets who's probably gonna be in jail later.

679
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and if you think about the cost benefit

680
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 3: thing there, right, are you going to get? What are

681
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 3: you getting in return for giving information like that?

682
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 2: Right?

683
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: Right?

684
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 3: And if it comes back that, oh wait, this person

685
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 3: says that they didn't say that, well then I mean

686
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,720
Speaker 3: all you have to say is, well, they must be mistaken,

687
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 3: because that's what they said to.

688
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: Me, right And on the yeah, it's hearsay. What's the motive?

689
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 3: You know?

690
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 1: Maybe they just have some kind of vendetta against that

691
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 1: other person in the community and they want to get

692
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: them jammed up. The problem is this tracks with a

693
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: confession that that same person who said she was in

694
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: the room made earlier that same year. The two inmates

695
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:55,240
Speaker 1: claimed there was a conspiracy of foot that Frankie Richard

696
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,399
Speaker 1: and a high ranking member of the Sheriff's office named

697
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: Warren Gary worked together to destroy the evidence of Lopez's murders.

698
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 3: And if that was true, they were probably working together

699
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 3: in some other capacity, or at least there was a payoff.

700
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:17,760
Speaker 3: There was some benefit to Warren Gary if that is true,

701
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 3: and Gary himself was never actually charged. In fact, he

702
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,839
Speaker 3: ended up getting promoted to run the evidence room. Yes, yeah,

703
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 3: that's true. Like think about that. It's again, it's it's

704
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 3: not confirmed all of this stuff, but like just the

705
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 3: perfect placement, if it were true, to be placed there

706
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 3: in charge of the evidence room. He ended up leaving

707
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 3: the Sheriff's office sometime around twenty twelve.

708
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 1: Yes, and he's just there are multiple other suspects. Brown

709
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 1: found a multitude of allegations regarding the case, and these

710
00:44:55,320 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 1: allegations were in various parts of the task force reports,

711
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,479
Speaker 1: but they were not made public until his research brought

712
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: them to life. So, mister Brown, if you were listening,

713
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: thank you for your courage and your diligent efforts. Here

714
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: enter a fellow named Danny Barry. Before dying in twenty

715
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 1: ten at the age of sixty three, Danny Barry worked

716
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 1: for the Sheriff's office for twelve years. Three separate witnesses

717
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: named him as a suspect in murders during interviews in

718
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight. They claimed first that Barry and

719
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: his wife would drive around pick up women off the

720
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: street and then drug them, specifically spike their drinks. Some

721
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 1: of these women also said that Barry had a room

722
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 1: in his trailer cordoned off from the rest of the domicile,

723
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 1: that there were chains hanging from the ceiling. This was

724
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: a room people could quote not see in or out of.

725
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 1: Barry was interviewed by the Task Force on February twenty fifth,

726
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine. He was not asked about any

727
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 1: of these allegations.

728
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course not. But that is Oh gosh, it's

729
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 3: so tough. It's so tough with these kinds of things

730
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 3: because it just it's a cumulative effect, right, I mean what,

731
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 3: that's the same thing that happened to Ethan Brown here

732
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 3: too with that's happening to me, I think maybe to

733
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 3: you listening to this, to to to Ben and all

734
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 3: of us. Just it's a cumulative effect of feeling like

735
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 3: something is fully rotten in I was gonna say Denmark

736
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 3: with in Jennings and you know, for this guy to

737
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 3: be what what do we what was that quote there?

738
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 3: We said he was not a suspect in three murders.

739
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 3: He was brought up, was it they named him? He

740
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 3: was named by somebody as a suspect in three of

741
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 3: the Jennings eight murders. Uh, that's pretty weird. But then

742
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,800
Speaker 3: there is a whole other twist that Ben you found

743
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 3: here something about one of the victor was present during

744
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 3: a police shooting.

745
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: So yes, So it turns out that there's another connection.

746
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 1: So we have the hotel, the location through which they're

747
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 1: often connected. We have their acquaintances male female colleagues, fellow

748
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 1: drug users, and so on, and then we have an incident.

749
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: In two thousand and five, police fatally shot a local

750
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: drug dealer named Leonard Crochet. A grand jury investigated this

751
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: shooting and determined that there was no probable cause for

752
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,720
Speaker 1: charge of negligent homicide on the officer's part or against

753
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: the police at all in the case, even though the

754
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 1: dealer was provably unarmed when he was murdered. Witnesses told

755
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:51,799
Speaker 1: investigators multiple times that they believed police were killing victims

756
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 1: who knew about how this shooting went down. At least

757
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: one of the Jennings eight was in the room when

758
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,359
Speaker 1: this when this fatal shooting occurred, and you can read

759
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,839
Speaker 1: some read some pretty harrowing in depth accounts of that.

760
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 1: But if that is true, then it seems that these

761
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:17,720
Speaker 1: victims were being murdered to cover up a dirty shooting, right, yeah,

762
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,720
Speaker 1: and then how dirty is the shooting, Well that depends

763
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 1: on how dirty the law enforcement personnel were working there.

764
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,839
Speaker 3: Well yeah, well here's we've kind of you know, if

765
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 3: you're to believe some of the picture that's been painted

766
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 3: here through this reporting, then you may think, wow, I

767
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 3: guess if you know they were gonna they if the

768
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 3: police officers who were involved with some of this stuff

769
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 3: did end up needing to take somebody out with whom

770
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 3: they were involved, then yeah, you can just imagine how

771
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 3: dirty the dealings actually were. And there's this other thing here.

772
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 3: A warden named Terry Gilory was trafficking some of the

773
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 3: in mates, the female inmates, for.

774
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 1: Sex or you know, maybe it's like Richard said, maybe

775
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: he was just introducing them to men who wanted to

776
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 1: exchange money.

777
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 3: All right, old man who wanted money?

778
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, unclean.

779
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 3: And here's this other thing. Warren Gary, who we were

780
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 3: talking about up top there, he purchased a truck on

781
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 3: the cheap from a friend of Richard Richard, Frankie Richard

782
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 3: that we were talking about there. And this truck may

783
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 3: have been used in a murder and then later sold.

784
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 3: Just this is a thing. This is like a let's

785
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 3: just put that out there. I'm just saying kind of thing,

786
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 3: right right.

787
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 1: Also, Guillery is a cousin of that last victim, Nicole Gillery.

788
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

789
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 1: And again a lot of this goes into things that

790
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 1: we would have to be we would have to call hearsay.

791
00:49:59,480 --> 00:49:59,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

792
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 3: Oh, a ton of us is.

793
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:08,240
Speaker 1: There are very sketchy timelines, strange relationships. But right now,

794
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:15,799
Speaker 1: despite these troubling things, there are no convicted murderers these

795
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: in any of these cases. And given the increasingly shady

796
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: activities of law enforcement in the investigation, it's no surprise

797
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 1: that the then Sheriff Edwards required all task force members

798
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 1: to get swapped for DNA if for nothing more than

799
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 1: to put the public at ease. Tut tut though, because

800
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: it turns out that the results of those DNA tests

801
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,399
Speaker 1: were never disclosed to the public and have not been

802
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 1: at the time of this recording. This is where you

803
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 1: come in. Public knowledge of the story may help with

804
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 1: the case. You know, It's been covered pretty well in

805
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 1: several different venues, most recently in the twenty nineteen to

806
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: five part documentary Murder in the bio which you had

807
00:50:56,120 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, Matt. But these these murders remain unsolved. They're

808
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 1: numerous people pointing their fingers at folks in the sex trade,

809
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 1: folks in the drug trade, some people still pushing the

810
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 1: serial killer narrative, and of course people pointing their fingers

811
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 1: at former members of law enforcement. This is where we

812
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: want to hear from you now, Claude, to answer the

813
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 1: question you had asked us earlier, is the Jennings eight

814
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: or the Jefferson Davis eight an inspiration for True Detective

815
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 1: Season one? There are some notable differences, of course, because

816
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,840
Speaker 1: True Detective Season one is clearly a work of fiction.

817
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: But the creator of the show, Nick Pizolato, says that

818
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:48,840
Speaker 1: he was not aware of the Jennings case until after

819
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 1: True Detective was coming out, and he in fact tweeted

820
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: about this approvingly in twenty fourteen, when Ethan Brown in

821
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: his Medium article noted that this felt like a True

822
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:06,800
Speaker 1: Detective story. So we don't. We have not found any statement,

823
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: at least from the creator of the show that he

824
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:13,399
Speaker 1: was inspired by this. However, we will point out that

825
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 1: during the run of True Detective Season one, the creator

826
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 1: came under some fairly serious criticism, including plagiarism right for

827
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: some of I think it was specifically some of the

828
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,879
Speaker 1: dialogue Rust Cole speaks right.

829
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 3: And I can't remember the writer from whom it was

830
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 3: believed he was borrowing, but it was that it's the

831
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:42,400
Speaker 3: weird fiction, Thomas Leggatti. That's it's h that's it. Yeah,

832
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 3: you know, there are similarities here, for sure, but this

833
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 3: whole the corruption within the police department thing feels a

834
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 3: little different to me. I'm having a hard time fully

835
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 3: recalling True Detective Season one. I think I need to

836
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 3: rewatch it.

837
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: It's fantastic. It's fantastic work, and I'm glad that it's fiction.

838
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 1: The problem here, and I don't know, not the not

839
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:10,360
Speaker 1: the problem, but the complication here is that fiction has

840
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 1: has a complicated relationship with the truth. We have cases

841
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 1: where real life events become embellished and works of fiction,

842
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 1: But then we also have cases where works of fiction

843
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 1: create real life tragedies and crimes, such as the infamous

844
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:32,839
Speaker 1: slender Man stabbings. Slender Man was, you know, is acknowledged

845
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: to be an urban legend created on the Internet. The

846
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 1: people who made slender Man say that they made it

847
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,360
Speaker 1: and didn't quote unquote discover it.

848
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:45,839
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yes, but you know, in this case, it's

849
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 3: a it is that too. It's a lot of people

850
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 3: saying a lot of things without a ton of evidence

851
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 3: to back any of it up. And that's why we're

852
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 3: very much interested in what you think. To my money,

853
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 3: it feels like a combination of things that we've discussed

854
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:04,359
Speaker 3: of people that may you know, may be implicated, you know,

855
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 3: in very small, very minor ways, and then others in

856
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:11,240
Speaker 3: pretty major ways. And I still feel like that Frankie

857
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,760
Speaker 3: Richards guy, he gives me just a bad feeling.

858
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:22,320
Speaker 1: Frankie Richard, Yeah, yeah, he. Here's the thing. At least

859
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 1: eight people are dead, and the one of the big

860
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: questions is did they all know each other because they

861
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 1: just happened to run in the same circles, happen to

862
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 1: live in the same relatively small town or relatively sparsely

863
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: populated area, or were they all targeted?

864
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 2: Right?

865
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 1: We know that this murder rate is incredibly high for

866
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 1: the population and it's abnormal. There's no way around it.

867
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:54,879
Speaker 1: No matter who you think is responsible, there's no way

868
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 1: around that. I am going to voice my opinion. I

869
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: believe that police corruption is heavily involved if you look

870
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:07,359
Speaker 1: at the track record, and again this is no being

871
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 1: on the people currently working in law enforcement. But if

872
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 1: you look at the track record of things that had

873
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:19,360
Speaker 1: happened over the course of the decades leading to these murders,

874
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 1: and if you look at how the murders were handled,

875
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 1: then it seems to be fairly obvious that there was

876
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:29,879
Speaker 1: at least some corruption and cover up at play. And

877
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: you know, it's tempting to say, well.

878
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:32,800
Speaker 2: Was this.

879
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,719
Speaker 1: Were they killed by members of the drug trade? Where

880
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: they killed by members of law enforcement? We can get

881
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: past a certain threshold of corruption. The drug trade and

882
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:48,879
Speaker 1: law enforcement are very close to being the same thing.

883
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 1: Their fingers on a hand. Now, I'm not saying there's

884
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 1: a case like that, because you know, I've never sold

885
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 1: weight on the Interstate ten corridor. I've never had to

886
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:01,400
Speaker 1: pay off a Louisiana member of law enforcement.

887
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 3: I like that you're like specific, giving it such specifics.

888
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,319
Speaker 1: There, those are the specific I know.

889
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 3: Your statement is just so specific.

890
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:19,319
Speaker 1: Oh you think I've gotta say I seventy five that's

891
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 1: a different story.

892
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 3: No, No, I just no, I'm just I'm just choking.

893
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:25,839
Speaker 3: She was hoping you would say, I've never sold weight.

894
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 3: I've never.

895
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 1: I've never sold weight on the it in corridor, and

896
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:38,919
Speaker 1: I've never made a deal with the good folks in Jedting's.

897
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

898
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:41,840
Speaker 3: Well, you know, sorry, I'm making light of it just

899
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 3: because it is uncomfortable talking about the deaths of individuals

900
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 3: like this, where corruption, like you said, has a track record,

901
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 3: and it seems it seems that it at least had

902
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:53,840
Speaker 3: some handed.

903
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,759
Speaker 1: And Brown was onto something. Brown is onto something, he

904
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 1: was threatened, he did have to stay out of the

905
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 1: area for several months. It can be enormously dispiriting to

906
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 1: admit that this is a situation where the law has failed.

907
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 1: Has the law failed because it is imperfect, or has

908
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 1: the law purposely been made to fail? Here the fact

909
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 1: that I would argue that the fact that these crimes

910
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 1: remain unsolved presents us and presents you listening, an opportunity

911
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 1: to be part of the solution.

912
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 3: Yes, so contact us in whatever way you choose, or

913
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 3: whatever way you prefer the most. You can find us

914
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 3: on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram. We're conspiracy stuff on

915
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 3: some of those conspiracy stuff show on Instagram. If you

916
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 3: don't want to contact us that way, you can you

917
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:49,479
Speaker 3: can get join our Facebook group. That's a really great

918
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 3: way to have discussions. It's called Here's where it gets crazy.

919
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 3: A lot of fine people in that group, even finer

920
00:57:56,240 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 3: people running it. Right there we go, And if you

921
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 3: don't want to do that stuff, you can give us

922
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 3: a call. Our number is one eight three three std

923
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 3: WYTK and leave us a message, tell us your story.

924
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 3: If you want to protect your identity, call from a

925
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 3: burner phone or a Google Voice number or something like that,

926
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 3: because I do see your numbers when you call in.

927
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:24,400
Speaker 3: Just a word of warning. And if you don't want

928
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 3: to do that, you can send us a good old

929
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 3: fashioned email.

930
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

931
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 3: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

932
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

933
00:58:56,480 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.