WEBVTT - Bay Hill, TPC Sawgrass, and Distinguishing a Great Test from a Great Course 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.800 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:04.920 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:06.320 And when I find my ball. 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:08.720 In a bride egg, Friday Egg, the dread and Frida 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:11.840 Egg Frida Egg, Frida egg Egg Frida Egg, Bride egg. 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:13.680 Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the hump. 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:38.680 Welcome to the Frida Egg Golf Podcast. I'm Garrett Morrison 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:42.080 and we are in a fun spot in the PGA 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:45.680 Tour schedule. The Arnold Palmer Invitational at bay Hill just 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:49.680 wrapped up with a dominant win by Scotti Scheffler finally, 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:53.800 and we are now onto the Players Championship at TPC Sagras. 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:57.480 These are two very different types of tournament golf venues, 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:00.320 so we thought it would be a good time to 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:03.720 talk about what we want and don't want out of 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:07.119 a tour golf course, what makes a great test of golf, 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:10.720 and how that's different from what makes a great golf 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:14.120 course in general. Here to discuss that with me is 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:17.880 Joseph Lamannia, And before getting into the meat of the pod, 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:20.640 we're gonna do our usual in and out segment where 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:22.959 we talk about what we're in on and what we're 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:26.319 out on in the golf world this week. So Joseph, 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:27.800 what are you in on? 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:29.200 Garrett? 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:34.280 I am in on the legacy of Arnold Palmer. And 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:37.319 I know that this is something that sometimes we enjoy 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:41.120 poking fun of a little bit, like when Justin Rose 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:44.080 didn't make an equipment announcement because he did it out 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:47.640 of respect for Arnold Palmer, and that can be all 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:50.880 a little bit overblown. But last week was my first 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:56.720 time in Orlando at this event. Seeing the pictures affixed 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:00.280 to the exterior of people's houses of Arnold Paul Elmer, 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:04.080 seeing the umbrella logos everywhere, not just on site, but 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:09.320 throughout the city, you can tell that Arnold Palmer himself 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:12.120 means a lot to a lot of people, especially in 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:15.040 the Orlando area, and with what the PGA Tour is 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:18.160 trying to do have legacy, have that lineage between some 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:21.080 of their all time greats. As much fun as it 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:23.160 is to kind of joke about, I gained a lot 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:25.520 of respect for it a lot of people. He means 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:26.919 a lot to a lot of people, and I think 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:29.520 that it elevates the event in a unique way. So 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:33.200 I'm in on what Arnold Palmer means to the golf 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:36.480 world and specifically to that tournament. The umbrella got to 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:39.280 you the umbrella. The umbrella didn't get to me to 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:41.720 where I'm gonna be wearing it around, But I can 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:43.800 appreciate that it means a lot to a lot of people. 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:48.600 Absolutely. I mean, obviously it's hard to describe how big 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.880 of a deal, how big of a celebrity Arnold Palmer 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.239 was in the late fifties and early sixties and really 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:57.920 throughout his life. But if you talk to people who 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:00.799 were young back then, who are golf fans back then, 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:04.000 like my dad, you can just tell how much Arnold 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:07.320 Palmer means. And so, yeah, that's a that's a very 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:12.440 real thing. Do people get overly sentimental and mawkish about it? Sometimes? 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:12.799 Do they? 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:12.920 Do? 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:16.400 They use the legacy of Arnold Palmer to justify poor 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:19.720 design at bay Hill? Sometimes? Yeah, occasionally that happens, But 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:23.120 all in all, it's it's probably for the best that 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:25.800 we keep that legacy alive a bit, at least in 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:28.440 the form of this event on the tour schedule. 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:30.280 Agree, what are you in on? Garrett? 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.880 All right? So I am in on saw him Figauless 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:39.440 season so far? Okay, I really like what he's doing. Now, 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:42.680 does he need to get to another level for me 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:46.720 to be really really excited about him? Sure, but he 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:49.720 was t six at Bayhill, three top tens so far 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:52.680 this year, solo second at the Century, and solo fifth 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:56.760 at the Phoenix Open. His problem historically, as far as 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:59.440 I understand it, you can correct me here, has been 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.360 wild driving, right, I mean, he just misses a lot 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:07.960 of fairways. Typically he's he's long enough, but he just 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:11.360 hasn't been accurate enough to be toward the top of 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:15.720 the you know, ball striking strokes gained standings on the 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:19.279 PGA Tour, he has been a little tighter with that 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:22.720 this season. He's twenty ninth and strokes gained off the tee. 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:24.719 I think his DNA is always going to be a 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:27.760 players who's a little bit loose off the tee, but 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:30.440 it seems like there's been some improvement there, at least 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:32.960 based on the small sample size we have so far. 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:35.839 And just you know, the reason I'm excited about Sahith 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.240 is the reason that everybody is excited about Sahith. He's 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:41.240 just a fun player to watch. He's charismatic, he's likable, 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:45.360 cool swing, great touch, around the greens, has been a 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:48.280 great putter for the past couple of seasons. The profile 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:50.400 of his game is just fun to watch. For me. 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:54.159 That's a player that you know, when when a player 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:56.719 like that is on TV, I'm like, I'm not quite 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.720 sure what's going to happen here. It's not super predictable 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.680 how this player is going to score. He profiles. I 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:07.920 think that's a pretty good fit for augusta National solo 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:10.239 ninth last year at the Masters, that was his first 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:14.039 Master's appearance, and so I'm going to be keeping an 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:16.560 eye on what he's doing and the lead up to 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:19.400 the Masters, what he does this coming week at TPC 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:24.440 Sawgrass and you know, potentially maybe a contender this year 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:25.320 at the Masters. 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:26.480 I love it, Garrett. 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:29.080 When we did our Master's kind of early preview pot, 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:31.360 I had just thrown his name out as a mid 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:35.040 you know, forty to fifty to one type odds. That's 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:36.840 where he is on the odds she at least at 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:38.400 the time, and I think he's somebody that has a 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:39.279 lot of upside. 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:41.560 Not the most. 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:43.920 Consistent game, as you're alluding to with some of the 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:46.200 sprang it off of the tea a little bit, but 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.279 he has rained it in a little and he's exciting 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:51.080 to watch. I completely agree with you. There are a 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:55.200 lot of robot type Maybe we overuse the term robots 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:57.840 when we're describing PJ Tour players and their swings and 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:01.120 their demeanor, but I have quite different than that. He 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:05.440 plays a different style. There's some flair with his personality 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:07.680 and with his game. He's fun to watch in person. 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.720 So I agree, somebody to look for. Maybe not at 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:13.000 the players this week. I'm not sure if I love 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:16.159 how his cloud for him, but yeah, yeah, as we 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:19.120 get to Augusta, he's somebody to keep an eye on 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:19.480 for sure. 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:20.240 So I like that call. 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:22.800 Yeah, I just I just smile whenever he shows up 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:25.040 on TV. And I don't have that reaction to every 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:28.839 player of his you know, skill level of his ability. 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:31.159 I light up a little bit. You know, the energy 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.600 ticks up a bit when he's on the screen, and 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:35.560 and you know, we we have to notice that when 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.080 it comes along because we've been talking about the lack 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:40.560 of juice so far in the PGA Tour season. It's 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:44.280 players like this guy who are going to bring us 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:47.640 out of that, out of those dol drums. So all right, 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:51.480 what are you out on this week, Garrett? 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:57.679 I am out on graphic hats, the kind of hat 0:06:57.839 --> 0:06:59.960 that it's almost. 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.840 Like the graphic what do you mean by graphic images 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:04.839 or like explicit content? 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:08.040 Oh no, no, no, no, not explicit content, like the images 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:11.720 in the text, especially the ones where we're either flipping 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.080 the text upside down, which I don't know why we 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:17.480 do that, or the ones where we're removing the vowels. 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.680 Like I saw some guy walking around at Bayhill. I 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:22.400 mean I saw a ton of these hats at Bayhill. 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:24.800 One guy walking around with one that must have been 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:27.960 Eagle Creek, but a lot of the vowels had been removed, 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:33.360 so it was just EGL space CRK. It's like, what 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.480 are we doing with these hats? Another woman had this 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.480 hat that said golf nerd. It was like a black 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:43.280 hat with his gold cursive writing golf nerd. It's like 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:45.320 it the don't talk to me until I've had my 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:49.000 morning coffee shirts put onto a hat, and I don't 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:53.360 know why we can't just have the simple, clean, sharp hats. 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:56.560 I don't know what we're doing this hat phenomenon, especially 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:59.000 they're removing the vowels and some of the funky messages 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:01.640 that we're trying to use to express our personalities via 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:02.240 our hats. 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:03.240 I'm out on all of that. 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:07.640 I live in a town called Happy Valley, and at 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:11.920 the at the local food truck spot, they sell sweatshirts 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:15.440 and hats and everything with Happy Valley on them, except 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:18.840 that all the valels have been removed, and it doesn't 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:21.560 make any sense, and it just it just delights me. 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:22.720 Do they leave the why? 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:26.960 Yeah, they leave the Why, but every other valelve is 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:30.360 taken out. It is like you don't even know when 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:32.120 you first look at it, You're like, what is even 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:35.880 going on here? Yeah? It is, no doubt, it's an epidemic, 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.040 all right. So as for what I am out on, 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:46.240 I'm so tired of people misinterpreting what certain players say 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.840 about the structure of the PGA Tour and the future 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.840 of the PGA Tour. The latest example this past week 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:57.480 was first Roy McElroy and then Wyndham Clark saying that 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:00.000 they wanted to see the PGA Tour get a little 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:04.520 smaller and more cutthroat. That's what they were saying, but 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:10.920 people immediately jumped on them for being self interested protecting 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:16.280 their position. Basically, people thought that Rory and Wyndham were saying, 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:19.559 shrink the PGA Tour so that I can stay on 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:23.120 it indefinitely and protect the guys who are on the tour, 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.280 which is really what the is the opposite of what 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:29.000 they were saying. They were saying, make it more competitive. 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:34.240 Rory was saying, take away the exemption categories that are, 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:36.760 you know, keeping guys on tour or in the big 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:40.000 events from things that they did five or ten years ago. 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:43.680 Wyndham was saying, let's have aggressive relegation. You know, twenty 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.600 guys out of one hundred every season. Doesn't matter who 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:49.160 you are, you're out if you're not playing well enough. 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:53.240 And so that was their message, and you can disagree 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:54.640 with it if you want or say that this is 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:56.800 the wrong direction for the PGA Tour, but at least 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:00.280 characterize what they're saying accurately. They were not saying saying 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:03.440 protect the top players more. They were saying, make this 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:07.800 more competitive, make it more brutal, And that was their message. 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:10.000 But it just totally got lost because I think people 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:13.440 were assuming that they had said something that they didn't say, 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:15.000 and that was just a bummer. 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:20.040 There was a prevailing sentiment, especially with Wyndham Clark's comments like, 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:23.400 don't forget where you came from Windham two years ago, 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:25.200 you wouldn't have been saying this and you wouldn't have 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:28.120 been in these events, and I totally agree with you, Garrett, 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:30.320 to be honest, it pissed me off because I feel 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:33.199 like people were just trying to take a shot at 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:36.120 Wyndham here and really dig out his character a little 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:39.320 bit when he's not saying that fewer golfers should make 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:41.000 a living playing professional golf. 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:41.880 I think my. 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:46.160 Interpretation of this model and I might not fully agree 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:48.720 with exactly what they're talking about in the strict relegation 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:53.319 and locking spots up for a full year, but directionally 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:55.520 I'm kind of fine with it, and maybe we tweaked 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:59.400 that a little bit. But Wyndham isn't saying fewer golfers 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:01.880 should make a life. He's saying, if we elevate the 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:06.440 product that should add value in more golfers should make 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:08.800 a living. Maybe there are going to be fewer spots 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:11.200 playing in some of the biggest events on the PGA Tour. 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:13.880 But you're right, he also is subject to that same relegation, 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:18.319 so it's not it was not a fair characterization of 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:20.960 their comments. I completely agree with you. This is the 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:23.160 direction that golf needs to go, and not everyone's going 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:23.920 to be happy with it. 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:28.040 All right, we'll get into Bayhill takeaways and a little 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:30.120 bit of players talk in a minute, but first a 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:34.439 quick word about golf in Ireland. Irish professional golf is 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:37.280 in pretty good shape right now. Shane Lowry solo third 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:41.439 at Bayhill, impressive performance obviously, Rory McElroy is a superstar 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.920 and Shamous Power and Leona Maguire are both very exciting players. 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:49.920 But beyond that, Ireland is a golfer's paradise with over 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:54.679 four hundred courses one third of the world's true links courses, 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:58.920 including a pair of legendary places in Northern Ireland, Royal 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:02.000 County Down and Royal Port Rush. County Down is actually 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:05.040 going to host the amjin Irish Open later this year. 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:08.360 That's going to be premium coffee golf is that. That's 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:11.040 the good stuff there, and of course Port Rush is 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:13.959 going to host the Open Championship in twenty twenty five, 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:17.280 so things to look forward to there. The Friday Golf Team, 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.319 or at least four of us, are in Northern Ireland 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.640 right now. Visiting these two great courses, along with a 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.880 handful of other amazing spots and hidden gems in the area. 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:30.079 You can hear more about that on the explorations feed. 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.920 Highly recommend subscribing to that. It's been really good stuff 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:35.280 so far. Just one of the best places in the 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:38.800 world for golf. The definition of a bucket list destination. 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:41.319 You have to go there before you die, So visit 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:45.880 Ireland dot com slash golf to start planning your trip today. 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:50.480 All right, Joseph, we wanted to talk about Bayhill and Tpcsagras. 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:52.960 We just saw these, you know, these two weeks back 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:57.160 to back. It raises the possibility of a comparison and 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:01.280 contrast and a lot of discuss about what we want 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.840 out of tournament golf venues. They represent two very different 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:09.640 kinds of tests. You were in person on site at 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:13.040 Bayhill this week, so let's do some takeaways from your 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:16.840 experience there. Talk to me about your expectations for the 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:21.199 course going in and then your reactions once you saw 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:21.800 it in person. 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:25.280 Yeah, big goal for me it was to see this 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:28.520 course in person because I haven't, but I'm super familiar 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.440 with it right obviously watching a ton of professional golf 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:35.520 and looking at shot data like I've had a pretty 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:38.440 good idea of what I was going to see. I 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:42.480 will tell you, Garrett in person, like with my architecture 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:46.559 hat on, it was a much worse golf course in 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:48.560 person than I expected it to be. 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:50.480 Within the same breadth. 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:54.600 I have some more positive takeaways about Bayhill as a 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:58.280 professional golf venue than I did entering the week, and 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:03.040 I think the sept the two can sometimes be where 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:06.240 people get upset, like when I had written for the 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:09.120 Friday newsletter about how Bayhill is much worse in person. 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.920 It always angers a certain subset of people, but we're 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.000 not calling for Bayhill to be removed from the rotation 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:19.200 as a professional golf venue. In fact, after this week, 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:21.920 I'm more excited about it as a professional golf venue 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:25.160 and we'll probably have more anticipation, you know, when the 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.840 twenty twenty five Arnold Palmer Invitational rolls around. Is it 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:30.640 a great golf course? 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:32.120 No thought. 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:36.120 I think it's an eyesore and it's really flat. When 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:38.480 you've seen one or two holes, you've seen them all. 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:42.160 But there are much worse versions of professional golf than 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.960 the Test. That's the questions that are asked by Bayhill, 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.200 even if it is quite repetitive. So those are my 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:52.520 overarching takeaways, but I kind of came away with some 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.560 appreciation for it and how it identifies a certain type 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:56.040 of talent. 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.200 Okay, well, let's talk about it as a test. Two 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:02.960 separate things you're talking about here. There's the there's the 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.920 professional golf test, and then there is the golf course 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:11.320 that you can assess with an eye to how it 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:14.960 might be played by an amateur or any type of player. 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:19.360 And so you know, first as a professional golf test, 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.160 your reaction was positive. What did you see in it 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:25.480 that you like out of a PGA Tour course. 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.480 I'm always gonna appreciate when there's a lot of long 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:32.920 irons because we just don't see that very often on 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.120 the PGA Tour, and it's a great way to separate 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:39.880 the guys who can really strike the ball. So probably 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:44.080 first and foremost, the combination of long irons with big, 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:49.080 firm greens. That is a strong recipe for identifying talent 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.680 at the highest level, not just because there's you can 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:55.520 actually hit the green with a long iron if it's 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:58.400 big enough, and if there's a little bit of softness, 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:00.560 like I think Bayhill gets too baked out sometimes to 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:02.200 where you can't even hold the green, and that's not 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:04.640 as good of a test. But this year it kind 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:07.240 of had the right firmness level to where a lot 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:09.880 of long irons were asked of players, but they could 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:12.240 still hold some of the greens. And when you don't 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:16.680 hit the green and it's a big firm green, it 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:19.240 presents you with some interesting short game shots, whether it's 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:22.560 from a bunker or some of the thick rough. Again, 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:26.560 maybe prefer to see some shots off of tight lies 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:30.480 versus this constant open up the face and hit an aggressive, 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:34.680 smashed shot out of some thick rough. But it is 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.760 interesting to watch. There's consequence to hitting shots in the 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:42.720 bad locations, pretty demanding overall. You can't miss off the 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.400 tee in certain spots like it does a good job 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:48.680 of identifying some skill sets that are important. It's not 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:50.880 a wedge pot in contest by any stretch. 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:55.120 Okay, all right? And so then contrast that with your 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:58.320 reaction to it as a golf course. What were you 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:01.480 looking at when you looked at bay Hill through the 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:04.439 lens of is it a good golf course or not? 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:06.800 And how is that different from assessing it as a 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:08.200 test of professional golf. 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:13.720 It's shockingly flat, if that's If that's not an oxymoron. 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:17.720 I was surprised at how flat the golf course is. 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:18.679 And it doesn't it. 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.159 Sort of welcome to Florida in that way, like this 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:23.000 is a lot of this is a lot of Florida golf. 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:24.040 Yeah. 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:24.359 Sure. 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.760 And the prevalence of water hazards everywhere. I mean, I 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:33.240 think people know that, but to see thin, pretty thin 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:35.720 fairways in a lot of spots where there's water on 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:38.320 one side and just rough on the other and some trees, 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:41.760 it lends itself to, hey, there's water on the left, 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:43.959 I'm gonna favor the right side of the fairway and 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:46.520 just blast driver and I'm gonna be kind of fine 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:48.520 as long as it doesn't go left and into that water. 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.439 People will counter with, no, you're not fine if you 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:55.960 go right into the rough. That's super penal and you're 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:58.360 gonna have to hack it out, which I agree with. 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:01.600 But you can't really shift your target too much left 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.000 of that because you're introducing too much water. So you're 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:05.920 gonna be fine if you end up in the rough 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:08.040 at a certain percentage of the time, like that's kind 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.440 of the way viewing shots as a range of outcomes 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:16.360 versus Bayhill doesn't really give you the opportunity to try 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:19.840 and challenge certain hazards. It's basically water or bust, and 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.560 a lot of it turns into water avoidance. So I 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:27.119 just thought it was quite one dimensional out there. Flat 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:31.600 water hazards, bunkers, thick rough You're gonna see a lot 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:35.240 of mashing, right, a lot of aggressive moves at the 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:38.000 ball out of a thick lie. You're not gonna see 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:40.600 a lot of clever recovery shots where you have to 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:45.200 control your ball flight and control where the ball ends up, spin, 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:47.520 control that kind of stuff. Like, you're not going to 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.040 see any of those clever recovery shots. It's pretty one dimensional. 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:53.240 Aerial hit it as high and straight as possible, and 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.320 then thrash it out of thick rough, which some people appreciate, 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:58.959 but that might not be There's certainly not a lot 0:18:58.960 --> 0:18:59.920 of variety out there. 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:03.920 There's not a lot of complex decision making. And yeah, 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.240 as you say, in terms of variety, you're not making 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:12.919 different kinds of decisions on different tees. And so that 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:17.200 is a characteristic of Bayhill's design that you can certainly 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:21.240 criticize from an architectural perspective, I believe it makes the 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.120 course less fun to play. It would make any course 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:26.879 less fun to play if you take the factor of 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:31.280 decision making and the factor of variety away from it. 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:35.280 But at the same time, these characteristics are exactly what 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:42.159 make it an exacting test of elite golf, or at 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:46.280 least the type of course where a Scotty Scheffler can 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:51.159 really show what makes him different from everybody else. And so, 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:53.679 you know, if somebody's kind of looking at this PGA 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:56.359 Tour season and saying, if one of the problems with 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:59.199 the PGA Tour this year so far has been that 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:04.680 we haven't seen superstars able to differentiate themselves, whether that's 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:08.720 because they just haven't been playing very well or because 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:12.720 they've been playing courses that don't allow them to separate 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:16.959 themselves properly from the pack, then it would seem that 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:20.480 Bayhill would be the cure to that, because we saw 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:26.000 Scotti Scheffler very clearly show why he is the best 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:29.920 player on tour right now, and I guess, I guess 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:35.679 we want courses that can do that. Would you I 0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:37.760 went through that logic, I'm not sure, I myself totally 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:42.000 agree with it, But would you follow along with that basically? 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:47.000 Yeah, But I do think it's the long irons and 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:50.840 big greens, big firm greens that you have to control 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:54.760 shots into. You'll get really good leaderboards if you have 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:56.800 a lot of that. We haven't seen much of that 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:00.679 on the PGA Tour so far this year, So I 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:03.879 agree with you that venues are part of why the 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:06.160 stars haven't shown out. You're not going to be able 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:10.480 to at AMX. Even though that PGA West used to 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:13.560 be a course that kind of kicked professional golfers butts 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:16.359 a little bit, it's not anymore. It's driver wedge and 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:19.040 that brings in a lot of putting variants. But when 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:20.760 you have a golf course like bay Hill, where you 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:23.679 can separate yourself more tea green, you're more likely to 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:28.399 get that Scottie Scheffler clinical dominant performance and showing what 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:31.200 makes him such a special player. Is there a place 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:33.320 for that on the PGA Tour? Like, Yeah, I think so, 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:36.240