1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: Cable news is ripping us apart, dividing the nation, making 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: it impossible to function as a society and to know 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: what is true and what is false. The good news 4 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: is that they're failing and they know it. That is 5 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: why we're building something new. Be part of creating a new, better, healthier, 6 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: and more trustworthy mainstream by becoming a Breaking Points Premium 7 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: member today at breakingpoints dot com. Your hard earned money 8 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: is going to help us build for the midterms and 9 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: the upcoming presidential election so we can provide unparalleled coverage 10 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: of what is sure to be one of the most 11 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: pivotal moments in American history. So what are you waiting for? 12 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: Go to Breakingpoints dot com to help us out. So 13 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: we've got a new report from Fox Business on some 14 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: additional significant financial troubles for Trump's social media company, Truth Social. 15 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and put this up on the screen. 16 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: Then this is from Fox Business. So a little bit 17 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: of a right leaning site here taking a shot at 18 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: this social media app. They say, Trump's social media app 19 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: facing financial fallout. Truth Socials finances may be in significant disarray. 20 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: Sources say, I'm sure everyone will be a shocked by that. 21 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: What's driving this report is they're locked in what they 22 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: describe as a bitter battle with one of their vendors, 23 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: claiming the platform is stiffened the company out of more 24 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: than a million dollars in contractually obligated payments. In October, 25 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: right Forge, that's the company that they're in this dispute with, 26 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: They had announced they entered into this agreement to host 27 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: truth Social. Right Forge is this very sort of like 28 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: ideological I know you can imagine, I mean, you know, 29 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: their whole things like we're going to be a place 30 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: where we don't discriminate against your political views and free 31 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: speech and all of that stuff. So they make this 32 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: deal with truth Social, but they now contend they have 33 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: renigged on their contractually obligated monthly payments for setting up 34 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: the platform's web servicing infrastructure. That's according to three people 35 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 1: with direct knowledge of the matter, and those people say 36 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: that truth Social made just three payments and then just 37 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: stop paying around March. Right Forge claims truth Social owes 38 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: it around one point six million, and they are threatening 39 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: legal action to recoup the money. They also say in 40 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: this article that this would be one of the most 41 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: significant vendors for truth social. So this isn't a small bill. 42 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: It's not a surprise. I actually know the guys behind 43 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: Right Forge. I've known him for years, Martine Avila, he's 44 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: the CEO of the companies, and our founding vision was 45 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: to make a second Amendment, is to make a second 46 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 1: Internet to support American ideas they believe in the mission 47 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: of President Trump's free speech. Betfort wish to continue supporting 48 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,519 Speaker 1: the President in his media endeavors. But it's a problem 49 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: if people don't pay, don't pay. This is always difficult 50 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: to do. This is always the issue right with Trump, 51 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: which is that this is why a lot of lawyers 52 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: also won't work for the guy, because like he doesn't 53 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: pay his bills, which is actually true if you look 54 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: beyond like well into the past, now that he's got 55 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: a campaign and a super pack, yeah, you might actually 56 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: pay their bills. But with Trump's truth Social, it's an 57 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: actual private company which is owned you know, Trump Organization 58 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: and Trump himself. That's a whole other story. Yeah. Now, 59 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 1: as you guys recalled, because we've covered this closely beginning 60 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 1: True Social launch, it took me months before my account 61 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: was accepted. It was a total disaster in terms of 62 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: the launch, just from a technical standpoint, then they were 63 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: face saying some legal troubles inqureiaes from the SEC about 64 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 1: the way that this was formed. It's a so called 65 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: blank check company, but there were questions of whether or 66 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: not was really a blank check company, or whether they 67 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: actually knew what deal they were going to do. So 68 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: there have been inquiries into that, and now you have 69 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 1: these reports of you know, if if a company isn't 70 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: paying their bills, it's not a good sign in general. 71 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: Now it could be this is just sort of like 72 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: Trump's typical practice of screwing over vendors and contractors, and 73 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: or it could be that they're in like relative fully 74 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: financial relative financial distress and don't really have the cash 75 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: to be able to pay how do they make money? Right? 76 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: And it's like that's right, Ask Twitter how that's been 77 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: working out for them for the last well. And we 78 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: know as people who have launched, you know, a small business, 79 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: that the energy is greatest right at the beginning. So 80 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: the fact that they screwed up their launch so badly, 81 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: I'm sure was a major hit to them in terms 82 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: of you know, how many people like went and tried 83 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: to sign up and it didn't work and They're like, 84 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: ask forw this and never went back. I'm sure a 85 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: lot of people felt that way. Now. Reportedly, there's been 86 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: an increase of interest and adoption of the social media 87 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: site since the FBI raid of mar A Lago. There's 88 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: more interested in. I think they built down Baby are 89 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: based all bit honestly being like, well, we need to 90 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: monitor what Trump is saying. True. I've been seeing a 91 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: lot more of his truth out there recently, so it 92 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: has made it a little bit more relevant. So perhaps 93 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: that will be enough to overcome their parent financial difficulties. 94 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 1: All right, guys, we have a little treat for you, 95 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: our audience and also specifically for my dear friends. Are 96 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 1: has not yet seen the big Bright Bart movie trailer 97 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: for their Hunter Biden, supposedly based on a true story 98 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: movie called My Son Hunter. The trailer is really something. 99 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: Let's take a look, so I'll tell you what's going down. 100 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 1: You know who I am, Hey, Tony, your VIP well 101 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 1: connected to the government. More africants to pick up this 102 00:04:55,160 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 1: laptop of the replayer shop. You're a Biden. Everything he 103 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: built life, I just ruined it all. I want to 104 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: know everything that's on that can ruin Ira my friends. 105 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: We didn't you know, I'm taking control. I'm making appearance. 106 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: Then I gotta go because I get them dancing with 107 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: their pants. Yeah, w and they banana. I'm a bag, 108 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: I'm an artist, and tell me I can help. Oh, 109 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. It's dad thought. There's a Biden hair 110 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: sniffing moment in that trailer. That's that's something else. I 111 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, it looks terrible, no offense to Ginn. 112 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: I actually like Gina Corono. She was awesome in The Mandalorian. Yeah, 113 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: I don't know. You know what's interesting too, is that 114 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: there's a lot of there must be. This is like 115 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: a studio war because this is distributed. I was looking 116 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: up by Breitbart Wire as Daily Wire has also been 117 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: doing its own brand of like new movie of Studios 118 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: coming for Disney for all that stuff. So this is 119 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: also like an internacine conflict. I think Gina, I think so. 120 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: I think she works for Ben Shapiro and the Daily Wire. 121 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: So I don't know how this all worked out. But 122 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: to be honest, it doesn't look very good. You don't 123 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: think so, Yeah, it just doesn't, you know, look sadly acted, 124 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: not particular. It just seems like a boomer Rent. It's 125 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: like a disnetch just Susan movie. That's that's the best 126 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: way to describe it. That's that's what the market is 127 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: for sure. I mean it seems also like they potentially 128 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 1: make Joe Biden and Hunter Biden look a lot more cool. 129 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: Oh you think, Yeah, that's exactly like I assure you. 130 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: With Hunter having seen some of these videos, it's not 131 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: as glamorous as that. It's actually sad, really pathetic with 132 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: a crack life. Yeah, he's not like Jason whatever that 133 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: got the action hero is like, he's actually just like 134 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,679 Speaker 1: a yeah, like a Jason Board. He's like a pathetic, skinny, 135 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: crack addict talking with like Eastern European hookers who who 136 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: themselves are like obviously exploited. It's very sad, Yes, it 137 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,559 Speaker 1: is very sad. And also like I mean, they really 138 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: seem in the trailer to paint Joe Biden is this 139 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: like sort of like patriarchal mob boss type of figure 140 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: that I also don't think, you know, I don't think 141 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: he has that sort of like executive management type of skill. 142 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: Reality is probably just a bad father, like I mean, 143 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: like a very negligent father, which from what I can 144 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: tell seems to actually be the case, at least with Hunter, 145 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: and I don't I don't want to go down to 146 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: the path because I don't know. I mean, I like, obviously, 147 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: his wife and daughter die in a car accident, and 148 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: the boys are in the car. They're both injured, and 149 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: he's sworn into office and starts his public life like 150 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: while they're in the hospital. And so this their life 151 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: has been extremely public. You know, their father has been 152 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: very busy and been in the public eye the whole time. 153 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: I'm not going to go down the path of judging 154 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: people's parenting. But on a serious note about the politics here, 155 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: I mean, if Republicans take power in the midterms, they're 156 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: get ready, yeah, all about it. We should learn, right, 157 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: so especially some of it. But the drug is stuff aside. 158 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: I mean clearly they love the like salacious, Oh sure, 159 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: personal part of this, but I mean, listen, if there 160 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: are things to learn about the corruption that we've always 161 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: said that is incredibly relevant. But yeah, I mean they 162 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: haven't been able to put together like a policy agenda, 163 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: but this for sure will be part of their plan 164 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: if they take back power. So something I'll look forward 165 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: to you guys, some very exciting news that we want 166 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: to share with you. Guys. Hillary Clinton and Chelsea Clinton 167 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: have a new Apple TV show. It's called Gutsy. I 168 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: know you're thrilled about this. Let's take a look. Okay, 169 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: here we go. We're hitting the road to shine a 170 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: light on women who inspire us to be boulder and braver. 171 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:52,719 Speaker 1: Leadership doesn't look one way. It's a giant rainbow. You're 172 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: not gonna break me down. You get worn out with 173 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: lager women who push us outside our comfort zone. You've 174 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: got this here and make us laugh. I'm in deep 175 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: Georgia and they might have never met a Muslim, or 176 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: they don't know they have, or they don't know they 177 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: have because we walk among you wild. Do you have 178 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: a marriage that has been on public display since the beginning? 179 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: You said the gutsiest thing you ever did was staying 180 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: in your marriage. That doesn't mean that's right for everybody 181 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: to throw someone's life away when people really do make changes. 182 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: I just believe in second chances. While mother needed rehabilitation, 183 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: not prison. Your survival is your power. Someone say to 184 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: me you're not good enough because you have melanin. How 185 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: dare you? I have a master's at whites. I just 186 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: warmed ways to get a gags if every time. Here's 187 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 1: how they market I'm I'm having big Time twenty sixteen 188 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: dnc Iflagma, what do Kim Kardashian, Gloria Stein and Meghan 189 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: the Stallion and Jane Goodall I'll of have in common. 190 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: They're gutsy join us for intimate common stations with some 191 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: of the world's boldest and bravest with how do these 192 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: people get stuck in a like twenty twelve time? And 193 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: how do they give people money to make this shit? 194 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: I don't know. It was an expensive Look at this, 195 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: look at the all this traveling all over Kim Kardashian 196 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: and all these people. This doesn't come cheap. I don't understand. 197 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: It's like, do we learn nothing from the Fauci documentary, 198 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: which was a huge flop for National Geographic No shit people. Yeah, 199 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: it's just like it's like a brainworm with you know, 200 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: here's what I think. I think Apple has too much money. 201 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: They don't actually know anything about content. They're like, hey, 202 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: we'll take it sometimes. By the way, sometimes stuff on 203 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: Apple is incredible. Sever It's one of the best TV 204 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: shows I've watched in a long time Greyhound, awesome movie, Blackbird, 205 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: great miniseries, so every once in a while because they 206 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: have such big pockets. But they're also willing, you know, 207 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 1: Tim Cook and his guys are like, oh yeah, Hillary thing, 208 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: that's that's what the people want. And so Apple's making 209 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: me like, it's hard to it's really hard to say 210 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: who's more out of touch, Hillary herself or the executives 211 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: through Greenlight something. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think it's 212 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: the I think it's the executives. Everything I've read about 213 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: Apple TV is these people don't have a clue. They 214 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: just throw money out, like Nobody's Business morning show, which 215 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: I personally liked, but guess what, unless you host a 216 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: morning show, not a lot too. It's a little really yeah, 217 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: it's like a little bit of a niche audience where 218 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I can, well, let me ask 219 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: you this. Let me ask the real provocative question here. 220 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: Do you think that this is part of like a 221 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: comeback plan? Do you think there's still people a little 222 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: birdies in our ear whispering like, now's your moment, Hillary, 223 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: now's your time. Joe Biden's approval ratings are low, you 224 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: should jump in there. You'd be the unifying figure you'll 225 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: have a redo against Donald Trump. It could be that. 226 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: I think she's jealous of Obama forgetting his Netflix deals 227 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: and for his shitty National Parks special, huge flop over 228 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: at Netflix, which, by the way, why is the American 229 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 1: president talking about parks that aren't in America and then 230 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: calling it national parks? I don't get it. Okay, really 231 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: parks they were all over the world, which is fine. 232 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: But that's for David Attenborough, not for the Barack Obama whatever. 233 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: That's I want to do that. I would love to 234 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 1: do it too. It sounds great, right, just narrow. He 235 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: didn't even go He just narrated, all right, so that 236 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,079 Speaker 1: put that aside. Obama, you're right. I think you're right. 237 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: Though she saw him doing his Netflix deal. I think 238 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: that's why. And his podcast with Bruce Springsteen, yeah, which 239 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: didn't work whatever. Yeah, and Michelle and him are doing 240 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: all kinds of like those that media stuff she wanted her. 241 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: I think she's jealous of Obama. That makes sense. That 242 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: makes sense. Also, these are the Clintons. They want money, 243 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: like these some of the greediest people. They want to clout, 244 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: they want to re attain that moment when they were 245 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,319 Speaker 1: doing like the Clinton Clinton Global Initiative, and they were 246 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: like heralded as these world historic figures and feted by elites. 247 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 1: All they want that like cachet back. But yeah, it 248 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: just feels very like leaning feminism, throw back, cringey, the 249 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: music choices, all of it. Yeah. Shot there, all right, guys, 250 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: something to look forward to. Buried inside of a new 251 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,839 Speaker 1: Foreign Affairs article is an absolutely stunning revelation. Let's go 252 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 1: and put this up there on the screen so those 253 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: of you who might not be familiar. Fiona Hill, is 254 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: a former Russia staffer on the National Security Council, reveals 255 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: exclusively in a new piece that Russia and Ukraine agreed 256 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,959 Speaker 1: to a tentative settlement in April that would have halted 257 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: the war. But as Branco Marcetti points out, what ends 258 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: up happening instead is that the UK Prime Minister, you 259 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: guys will recall, Boris Johnson, flew over to Kiev to 260 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: instantly say this is off the table. So here's what 261 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 1: the direct quote. According to multiple Russian former senior US 262 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: officials we spoke with in April twenty twenty two, Russian 263 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: Ukrainiean negotiators appears to have attentively agreed on the outlines 264 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: of a negotiated interim settlement. Russia with withdraws his position 265 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:53,839 Speaker 1: on February twenty three, when it controlled part of the 266 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 1: Dunboss and all of Crimea, and in exchange, Ukraine would 267 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 1: promise not to seek NATO membership and instead receive security 268 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: guarantees from a number of countries. Remember those very very 269 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,319 Speaker 1: very early days of the war, we thought that that 270 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,359 Speaker 1: was a very distinct possibility. They were sitting down in Istanbul. 271 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: They were sitting down also, you know in some of 272 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 1: the contested regions. Even during the actual invasion and push 273 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: on key Den, it all falls apart. Billions of dollars 274 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: of US weapons and well some billions, not as many 275 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: billions from the UK, and then a poultry, tiny little 276 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: sum start to flow in from France and everybody else, 277 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: but the Anglo countries, Britain and the US make it clear, 278 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: we don't want you to sign a deal. Zelensky sees 279 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: that his real money train and political biopolitical necessity, the 280 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: Ukrainian population wanted to fight, and then the foreign countries 281 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: are like, no, we don't want you to give in 282 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: at all. We want to keep the war going or 283 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: we want to stand up our own populations are now, 284 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: you know, agast or whatever. Nobody can just settle this thing. 285 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: And here we are and to be frank, you know, 286 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: as where the battle line stands right now. This is 287 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: basically exact actly what's happened, except now a hell of 288 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: a lot of people had to die for the dun 289 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: Boss region and now Dunboss is gone. And look, we'll 290 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: see if that southern offensive by the Ukrainians amounts to anything. Personally, 291 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: I have my doubts. This is yeah, I mean, it 292 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: really is a bombshell. And you lay on important piece too, 293 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: which yes we know it was UK Prime Minister Boris 294 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: Johnson who made the trip specifically. This was, according to 295 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: reports in the kivpress and the Ukrainian press, specifically to 296 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: say we do not want you to settle. We are 297 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: not ready for this war to end. But we know 298 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: that the US and the UK have been in close 299 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: alignment on our policy towards Ukraine, France and Germany. We're 300 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: taking more of an approach of let's have talks, let's 301 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: have diplomacy. Especially mccrome was on the phone with Putin 302 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: all the time trying to keep them in dialogue and 303 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: keep them in conversation. At this point. Also, remember what 304 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: happened is Russia was sort of bogged down. Things hadn't 305 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: gone while for them, all the analysts were sort of 306 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: wrong about how quickly this was going to all occur. 307 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: The Ukrainians were doing much better than expected. So this 308 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: was a key moment when if there was going to 309 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: be a deal, this was it. And now you have 310 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: Zelenski much more consistent in the press with like, we're gonna, 311 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: you know, achieve our maximums. So we're going to take 312 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: back Crimea, We're going to take back every square inch 313 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: of territory. At the time, there were sort of mixed 314 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: messages coming out both from Kiev and also from the 315 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: Russian side. So this is an astounding, uh failure, It's 316 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: an astounding loss. It is incredibly cruel to the Ukrainian 317 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: people to have, you know, scuttled this deal and forced 318 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: them to into the to continue this war, which has 319 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: been horrific for them. Now you have Europeans who are 320 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: we were just looking at I mean, they're facing a 321 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: dire situation in terms of gas price, energy prices going 322 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: into this winter, chaos around the globe. I mean in 323 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: my view, scuttling this deal is a world historic error 324 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 1: and disaster from a human perspective. So really key detail 325 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: here and also great commentary, and you know, really noteworthy 326 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,199 Speaker 1: that this gets mentioned like not at all, like barely noticed, 327 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: nobody in stream pressed. This is one of those things 328 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 1: I'm going to read about that in the history book 329 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: in twenty years. Yeah, we'll finally get all the details 330 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: and it'll be kind of like reading about the telegrams 331 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: in World War One, which you don't get to read 332 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: them until like twenty five years later. So that's what's 333 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: going to happen. And by that time we'll all learn 334 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 1: how it worked out. And I'm gonna venture to say 335 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: that probably is going to be better than whatever ultimately 336 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 1: the real you know, negotiated. So whenever the sense, after 337 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 1: much part, a lot and a lot of other people 338 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,199 Speaker 1: will be dead unfortunately for that reason. So be it 339 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: time now for our weekly partnership segment with the man himself, 340 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: David Sarota of the lever there. He is great to 341 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: see you, David. Good to see you, man, how to 342 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: see you both, So you all had truly a sort 343 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: of groundbreaking bombshell disclosing this one point six billion dollar 344 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 1: donation and getting the details on that, and this week 345 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 1: you have a bit of a the follow up. Let's 346 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: go ahead and throw this up on the screen again 347 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 1: at the lever. Here's how we can fight dark money. Congress, 348 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 1: state legislator, shareholders and news organizations must speak out and 349 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: reform the system right now. David, you also personally published 350 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: a piece in Rolling Stone. The headline there is you're 351 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: subsidizing the threat to democracy. A secret one point six 352 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 1: billion dollar donation shows why Congress, state legislators and shareholders 353 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: must act. What is the case that you're laying out here? 354 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: How can we fight dark money in our system? So 355 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: dark money refers to anonymous, unregulated money flooding into our politics. 356 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,959 Speaker 1: This is money that we don't know who is making 357 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 1: the donations, buying elections, buying legislation, buying court appointments. If 358 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: you've seen an ad where there's some shadowy group that's named, 359 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: you know, Americans for Americans, typically we don't even know 360 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: who's funding the ads. Okay, So that's what dark money is. 361 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: And the last election a billion dollars of dark money 362 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: was spent. So what can we do about this? Well, 363 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: there's legislation that's been sitting in Congress really for more 364 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: than a decade that would simply require dark money groups 365 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: to disclose their donors to tell us who is funding them. 366 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: The legislations sponsored by Senator Sheldon white House would also 367 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: make sure that donors can't hide behind shell companies LLCs 368 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: and the like, just so we actually know who is 369 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: funding this. Now, people go back to the Citizens United 370 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: case and say, well, you know, the Citizens United era 371 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: unleashed this era of unregulated spending. That is absolutely true. However, 372 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: Citizens United and all of the other subsequent decisions in 373 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: that vein continue to say that the government has the 374 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: power to mandate wide and broad disclosure so the least 375 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: know who is funding this spending in our elections. In 376 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: other words, these rulings say the government cannot limit the 377 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: amount that's been spent. That's John Roberts's court, that's their 378 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 1: first Amendment argument. But they continue to justify those rulings 379 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: by saying transparency is important. The government is well within 380 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: its authority to require disclosure. So the bottom line is 381 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: there are plenty of ways to get that disclosure. There's 382 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: the Disclosed Act in Congress. There is a writer that's 383 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: been put on appropriations bills for years, blocking the SEC 384 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: from requiring publicly traded corporations to disclose their political spending. 385 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: There are shareholder resolutions that can be brought against companies 386 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: where the stockholders say you need to disclose your political spending, 387 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 1: and there's been success with that. So the point is 388 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,919 Speaker 1: to bring this into the light so that we at 389 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: least know who is doing the spending, you know, David, 390 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 1: I think one of the craziest things about that billion 391 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,360 Speaker 1: dollar donation was just how structured with stock and all 392 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 1: that other stuff. Is there even a way to get 393 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 1: around that or through the legal system, or is the 394 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: best way just to hammer disclosure as much as possible 395 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 1: in order to try and discourage that behavior. I'm glad 396 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: you brought that up. I mean, that was the other 397 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: part of the story where what happened in this case 398 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: was the donor donated his entire company to a tax 399 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: exempt dark money group, and then the dark money group 400 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: sold the company. That maneuver meant that the donor didn't 401 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: pay taxes on the sale because the asset was already 402 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: in the tax exempt organization, and when the tax exempt 403 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,880 Speaker 1: organization did the sale, it was tax exempt. So effectively, 404 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: the tax code aka all of us, delivered a up 405 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: to four hundred million dollars subsidy to that donation. There 406 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: are ways to prevent that. You can, for instance, tax 407 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: the gift on its way into a tax exempt organization. 408 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,479 Speaker 1: There was a twenty fifteen law that actually made this 409 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: easier to do, in other words, created the loophole itself. 410 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: You can repeal that loophole. So there are ways to 411 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 1: make sure that at minimum, the tax code is not 412 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: forcing all of us to subsidize anonymous dark money political donations. Yes, yeah, 413 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,120 Speaker 1: And so do you think that transparency would have much 414 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: of an impact, because I know it's not every reform 415 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: that we would want, but you're saying, like, at least 416 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 1: this is something we can do. Do you think it 417 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: actually will really change anything or will it just be 418 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 1: you know, there's such a flood of cash that it 419 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: makes people's eyes kind of glaze over. That's a fair question. 420 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,239 Speaker 1: I mean I think it would. For instance, I think 421 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: it might deter some of the biggest, most controversial spending 422 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,640 Speaker 1: if the donor knew they had to say who they 423 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: were when they funded it. I mean, right now, you're 424 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: in a situation where you can fund completely outrageous things 425 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: and know that you can fund them if you're a 426 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,439 Speaker 1: huge donor, from behind a wall of anonymity. So in 427 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: other words, it kind of makes you makes donor, gives 428 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: a donor protection to do more outrageous things than they 429 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: would perhaps want to admit to. So I think there 430 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 1: could be a deterrent effect. I also think there could 431 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: be a deterrent effect in the political conversation where you 432 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: know a candidate's running for office, a big one of 433 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: these groups swoops in Americans for Americans, and we find 434 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: out it's some donor from an industry that voters really 435 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 1: really don't like. I think voters obviously are entitled to 436 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 1: know that information, but I also think it could affect 437 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: the information that they have in casting their votes. Who 438 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: am I really casting a vote for. It actually all 439 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: goes back to the theory if you take it at 440 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 1: its on its face value of what the Roberts Court says, 441 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: which is, if there's a First Amendment right. I don't 442 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: fully obviously subscribe to the idea that money is speech, 443 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: but if you take their argument that money is speech, 444 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: they're protecting. The court is protecting the First Amendment that 445 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: disclosure to is also speech that if there's going to 446 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 1: be all this noise and all this speech in our politics, 447 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: we should at least be able to know who is 448 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: doing this speaking right. I think it's also important. We 449 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 1: saw this with the disclosure on the what is it 450 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: called the Stock Act? Is that the one that required 451 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: members of Congress staff to disclose what traits they were making. 452 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 1: Like it didn't solve the problem, but it gave journalists 453 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: such as yourself, and it gave independent journalists on Twitter 454 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: the ability to you know, say, hey, look at what 455 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi is doing over there, and oh, by the way, 456 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 1: lo and behold, there's legislation that's relevant to this, and 457 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: she just made a massive gain for you know, herself 458 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: and her husband. So that has started to galvanize the 459 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: public around bigger changes that wouldn't have been possible if 460 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: we didn't have that information. I think you could see 461 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: a similar thing with you know, I mean, we know 462 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 1: some of the money that Kirson Cinema and others are 463 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: getting from industry, but if we had a full picture 464 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: of like she got this much in her campaign and 465 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: now she's doing this, guess why, it could help to 466 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: galvanize the public around those bigger changes and bigger reforms. 467 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: I one hundred percent agree, and I want to just 468 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: add one thing. This should not be a part of 469 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 1: an issue. When we put our story out about the 470 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: money going to Leonard Leo, the Conservative operative who has 471 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 1: been running the conservative effort to change the courts, some 472 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: of the pushback was, well, what about George Soros? And 473 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: my response to that is this is not a part 474 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: is an issue. Whether you agree with Leonard Leo, whether 475 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: you agree with George Soros, that's actually not the point here. 476 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: The point is we should all be able to agree, 477 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: whatever side of the political spectrum you're on, we should 478 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: all be able to agree that we should have the information. 479 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 1: We should be able to know who is doing the spending. 480 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: If we believe that democracy really only works when voters 481 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: have the information to cast informed votes, then this is 482 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: the basic information. And one last point, as I said 483 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: in the Guardian and in Rolling Stone News, organizations should 484 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,160 Speaker 1: not pretend to be impartial or quote unquote objective here. 485 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: We journalists cannot do our day to day job of 486 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: reporting on money in politics if there are not real 487 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: disclosure laws when we report on money and politics, in 488 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: a day to day way. Right now, we're reporting on 489 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: a smaller and smaller portion of the campaign finance system 490 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: that is still in the light, while a larger and 491 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: larger part of that system is completely hidden behind a 492 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: wall of anonymity. So journalism organizations, journalists, news outlets should 493 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: be pushing aggressively for these disclosure laws to help us 494 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: do our job. And one last reminder, that's how the 495 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: original disclosure laws happened. The Watergate scandal, the original dark 496 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: money scandal of the modern era, birthed those original disclosure laws. 497 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: Now those laws are out of date, it's time for 498 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 1: an update. Yeah all, well said, great reporting on those 499 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: Congratulations again and we'll see you soon, my friend, Thanks man, 500 00:26:54,040 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: thanks to both of you. Absolutely Hey, breaking points, Marshall. Here, 501 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: I'm joined by Josh Mitchell of the Wall Street Journal. 502 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: He recently wrote, which came out in paperback, the Debt Trap, 503 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 1: how student loans became a national catastrophe, which makes him 504 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: the perfect guests to do a quick follow up on 505 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 1: last week's news. Josh, you start by giving us a 506 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: real rundown of where things stand now with the student 507 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: loan system, given the Biden administration's reform. Yeah, there are 508 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: two big things that I think President Biden did here. 509 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 1: He basically said that the government is going to forgive 510 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars for people who earn ten thousand dollars 511 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: a student debt for people who earn under one hundred 512 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: and twenty five thousand dollars a year, two hundred and 513 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: fifty thousand for couples, And on top of that, if 514 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: you received a PEL grant, you can get up to 515 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:54,640 Speaker 1: twenty thousand dollars in forgiveness. So that's the first thing, 516 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: is that a lot of people are going to get 517 00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: a chunk of student debt forgiven. The second thing, which 518 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,479 Speaker 1: I think is very important but has not gone as 519 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: much attention, is going forward, if you take out loans 520 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: to go to college, you can now pay only five 521 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:19,360 Speaker 1: percent of your discretionary income toward your student loans each 522 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: month and the interest will not accrue, and currently you 523 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: have the option to pay ten percent. So basically he's 524 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: cutting in half the amount that families will have to 525 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: pay down each month on their college debt, which is 526 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: a very significant reduction, and just how much people end 527 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: up having to pay back on their student debt. I 528 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: think your summary really gets at the tensions under the 529 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: system now be because I see especially that second reform 530 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: that's going to be great for families with people of 531 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: student loans, all those bits coming out of college. I'm 532 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: not sure that making it easier to pay down ever 533 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: increasing amounts of debt is going to be the right 534 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: pressure on the university system to reform. So how should 535 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: we think about kind of the dilemma and the tension there. 536 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: I have three broad bullet points when I think about 537 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: what just happened. The first is the constitutionality of this move. 538 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: The second is this idea of toxic debt, which I'll 539 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: talk about, and the third is systemic reform. And so 540 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: I'll go in order of those three things. The first 541 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: involves the constitutionality. Which is very remarkable here is that 542 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: President Biden himself, Speaker Nancy Pelosi, certainly Republicans, basically every 543 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: political figure involved here have at one point or another 544 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: raised very serious doubts about the ability of an executive branch, 545 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: the executive branch to wipe out what amounts to hundreds 546 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: of billions of dollars in student debt wholesale. And so 547 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: what's remarkable is that after months and the past couple 548 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: of years of President Biden himself having at some point 549 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: raised doubts about his ability to do this, He's come 550 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: out and done it. And I think that that is 551 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: very important to keep in mind here. That's like a 552 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: broader story of the executive branch just you know, increasingly 553 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: throughout different administrations using powers that are very dubious from 554 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: a legal perspective. The second thing is quick follow up 555 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,959 Speaker 1: on that was the student loan pause itself. Was that 556 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: through the executive branch? Or was that Congress both? So 557 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: President Trump at the very start of the pandemic used 558 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: executive powers to pause student loans. He initially did it 559 00:30:54,960 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: for a matter of months to basically say you don't 560 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: have to make payments on student loans for the time being, 561 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: and we will suspend the interest. So that was a 562 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: big benefit for families that he did with the executive powers, 563 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: and then Congress codified it with this broad law that 564 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: they passed early on in the pandemic. And then after 565 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: that law expired, the Biden administration comes in and they 566 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: they basically continue to extend the i'llcohol pandemic pause multiple times. 567 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: And so now the other thing he did was he 568 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: said look, we're going to extend it one more time 569 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: through December thirty first of this year, and then that's it. 570 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: People will have to start making their their payments. So 571 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: it's a combination of both a law that Congress passed 572 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: as well as executive authorities. So this time there's just 573 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: no law. It's just an executive decision saying we're going 574 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: to forgive the loans. Okay, so yeah, I get to 575 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: this sell and just just a clear advice. Like they're 576 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: they're they're arguing that this law passed in two thousand 577 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: and three in the wake of, you know, the Iraq 578 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: War or at the start of the Iraq War, it 579 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: authorizes this. So you know, they're saying, we're we are 580 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: using existing law. But you know, there's a lot of 581 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: people who say, well that that's a misuse of that 582 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: law was not intended to you know, be used in 583 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: this fashion. So is it possible that this decision could 584 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: be overturned like interrupted is there any uncertainty about the 585 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: actual implementation. That's one of the very big questions here. 586 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: You know, when when you know, if if someone worked 587 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: as sue, you would have to argue, you would have 588 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: to argue what their standing is. You know, basically, someone 589 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: would have to say, I am you know, harmed financially 590 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 1: by this move. And so one question in my mind 591 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: is could the you know, could could some private institutions 592 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: who are who have business with the federal government when 593 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: it comes to lending. Could they argue this somehow financially 594 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: harms them. I really don't know. This is a speculation 595 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: on my part. But for example, you know, and this 596 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: gets a little bit in the weeds, but prior to 597 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: twenty ten, there were a lot of people who had 598 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: federal loans, but those loans were were awarded by private 599 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: lenders and they were guaranteed by the federal government. And 600 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: so you know, there there is a certain amount of 601 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: federal student debt that is actually on the books of 602 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: private lenders. Not sure if that if this forgiveness applies 603 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: to them, But let's just say you know that you 604 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 1: have private you have federal loans that are held by 605 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: a private lender, you consolidate into a new federal loan, 606 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: which is basically a form of refinancing, and then you 607 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: get forgiveness. You know, could the private lender say, hey, 608 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: you know, I'm being harmed because you know, I'm being 609 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: denied a future revenue stream that under contract I am 610 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: entitled to get. So I think that there's a really 611 00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: thorny question of who will have the ability to sue 612 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 1: and what their argument will be. But it's certainly a possibility. 613 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,399 Speaker 1: And then your second probably it was toxic debt. Yes, 614 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 1: so toxic debt, I think is a really important point here. 615 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 1: I don't think people realize the scale of what I 616 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,359 Speaker 1: will you know, call predatory lending or subprime lending that 617 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: occurred in this program over the past fifteen years. One 618 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: of the things I've noticed on Twitter is that there's 619 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: like these caricatures of student borrowers, you know, on the right, 620 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: and even among centrist Democrats, there's this focus on people 621 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: who got a degree, went to graduate school, have a job, 622 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,399 Speaker 1: are getting the so called wage premium. You know, why 623 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,959 Speaker 1: should they not have to pay back all of their debt? 624 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 1: Far be it for me to argue for or against 625 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:03,320 Speaker 1: that argument or so. So that's one. That's one caricature, 626 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,280 Speaker 1: and then you have this other caricature of people mostly 627 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: on the on the far left, the Bernie Sanders crowd 628 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: for the most part, saying this doesn't go far enough 629 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: because you know, everyone who has student debt is struggling, 630 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: and why not just wipe it all off, wipe it 631 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: all out. You know, ten thousand dollars is not nearly enough, 632 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: you know, and everyone is burdened, and you know, everyone 633 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: who has student that is just struggling. And I think 634 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: that both of those are a little bit of a caricature. 635 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: It's not that I think that both of those statements 636 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: have you know, kernels of truth in them. But you know, 637 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: as someone who's covered this for a long time, I 638 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 1: view the student loan market as the national mortgage market. 639 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:47,799 Speaker 1: There are a lot of people who have houses, who 640 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: have mortgages that they use to buy houses in very 641 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: wealthy areas like Westchester, you know, New York, or you 642 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: know Georgetown, Washington, d C. And so, yes, there's a 643 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 1: lot of quote unquote privileged, well off people who got 644 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 1: mortgages whose investments have paid off, and you know, why 645 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: should they have any forgiveness of mortgage debt. But then 646 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: you also have like a lot of people, particularly think 647 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 1: back to the housing crisis, who were in Arizona or 648 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:20,479 Speaker 1: West Virginia and bought houses at inflated values. They weren't 649 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:22,839 Speaker 1: really well informed about the debt product that they were 650 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: getting into. Maybe they had an adjustable rate mortgage. You know, 651 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: very quickly they defaulted on their loans. They were suddenly underwater. 652 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 1: Their mortgages were higher than the value of their houses 653 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: which had gone down the housing crash, and so you know, 654 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 1: there's like the student debt market is the same way 655 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: you have people who took out loans to go to 656 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 1: Princeton or to even go to the Euracy of Maryland, 657 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: my alma mater. You know, solid State school has great 658 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,800 Speaker 1: outcomes in terms of graduation rates and people getting jobs. 659 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,239 Speaker 1: But then you have a whole lot of people who 660 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: went to community colleges for profit trade programs, a certain 661 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: number of HBCUs which are open enrollment. You know, this 662 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 1: this group of schools that you know, you can sort 663 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 1: of categorize them as open enrollment schools in that they 664 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: don't really have any admission standards and so basically anyone 665 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: who's anyone, regardless of their academic ability, their walk of life, 666 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,399 Speaker 1: they they enroll, the government gives them a brank, blank check. 667 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 1: A lot of these students, which were disproportionately drivers of 668 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: student debt and the housing crisis, and when student debt boomed, 669 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: ended up dropping out, so they didn't get a degree, 670 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,359 Speaker 1: they never got a well paying job, and they auto 671 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,359 Speaker 1: and they just instantly defaulted on their loans. Or maybe 672 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: they did get a degree, they graduated into a historically 673 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,719 Speaker 1: weak labor market back in the yearly twenty tens, and 674 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: they weren't able to keep up on their payments. There's 675 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: a big cohort of those people and that, and that's 676 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: what I mean by toxic debt. And I'll just make 677 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: one more point because I know that I'm going on 678 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: for a long time here, but no, it's good. This 679 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 1: is kind of the point. Yeah, Like, counterintuitively, most people 680 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: who default on their loans, oh, relatively small amounts between 681 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 1: five and ten thousand dollars. And that's counterintuitive because when 682 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: we think of people who struggle with students debt, I 683 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,439 Speaker 1: think in the public discourse it's, oh, fifty thousand dollars, 684 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,319 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars. That's a big issue. We talked 685 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,120 Speaker 1: about this last time. But a lot of the toxic 686 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: debt is people who again enrolled, spent a semester and 687 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 1: then dropped out. They never make a payment. Most people 688 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: who default just never make a payment. They drop out 689 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 1: of college, they fall off the radar. The loan servicers 690 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 1: are hounding them with emails and phone calls. There's millions 691 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,320 Speaker 1: of these people who their debt is just sitting on 692 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,719 Speaker 1: the government's books, and the government and Congress just pretend 693 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 1: like it's going to get paid at some point. And 694 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 1: so when people say ten thousand dollars like that's not 695 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: a lot. One of the things that I think about 696 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 1: is this is just gonna in one fell swoop wipe 697 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 1: out all of that toxic debt that years ago a 698 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: private lender or a bankruptcy judge would have done so, 699 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 1: notwithstanding the constitutionality. Practically speaking, I think this takes off 700 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 1: a lot of toxic debt. So that's point number two, 701 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 1: and I'll stop there. If you have any follow up 702 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: questions on that, No, I think you. I think you 703 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 1: covered it. What's the third and final systemic reform point? 704 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: The third and final systemic reform gets to this, partly 705 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 1: to this income driven repayment benefit that was included here. Basically, 706 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,719 Speaker 1: it's the idea of moral hazard. And I think a 707 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,279 Speaker 1: lot of you know, a lot of progressives that I've 708 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: followed in this debate, I think they they think of 709 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 1: this idea of moral hazard as this like esoteric economic 710 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 1: theoretical problem that you know, Milton Friedman esque types worry about. 711 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: I actually think it's a very big issue here and 712 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 1: and I and I think if you look at how 713 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 1: collegests behave they have been able to raise their prices 714 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 1: at such high levels because no one really suffers negative consequences, 715 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 1: at least from the school's perspective, when they encourage students 716 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,720 Speaker 1: to overborrow. And I think that this might make this worse. 717 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: This really risks making that perverse incentive worse. If colleges 718 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,719 Speaker 1: can now go to students and say, don't worry about 719 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 1: the balance. You know, yeah, you're going to have to 720 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: take up fifty thousand dollars on the front end. I 721 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,319 Speaker 1: know that sounds like a lot, but look, when you 722 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: come out, you're only going to have to pay five 723 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:31,800 Speaker 1: percent of your discretionary income. So whether it's fifty thousand 724 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,360 Speaker 1: or seventy five thousand, you're never going to pay this 725 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 1: all back. I think that that's a very serious issue. 726 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: Some colleges have already done that. Basically, they're counseling students 727 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: on how to take advantage of these options. So that 728 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: they desensitize students to the high tuition. And so what 729 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 1: I find very remarkable here is this is in some 730 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 1: ways the opposite of what happened in the housing crisis. 731 00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,480 Speaker 1: In the housing crisis, you had a lot of people 732 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,960 Speaker 1: who got a lot of debt to that they overborrowed, 733 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,239 Speaker 1: and the government, I think there's a consensus that the 734 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,880 Speaker 1: government didn't do enough to help out individual homeowners, but 735 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 1: that the government focused a lot on systemic reform. So 736 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,120 Speaker 1: they created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, They passed Dodd Frank, 737 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,240 Speaker 1: They increased requirements for how much banks should holding capital. 738 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,400 Speaker 1: They did all of these things to you know, focus on, 739 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 1: at least from their perspective, fixing the lending system so 740 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: that going forward they would not be, you know, such 741 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:41,439 Speaker 1: reckless lending that presented a systemic risk to the US economy. Here, 742 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,960 Speaker 1: it's like the flip, it flips the script. Here, the 743 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,280 Speaker 1: government has done a lot for individual student betters. They've 744 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,040 Speaker 1: paused their payments for three years interest free. They've forgiven 745 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: ten thousand or in some cases twenty thousand dollars in debt. 746 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,960 Speaker 1: They've cut in half how much you know, college people 747 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,319 Speaker 1: with college debt are going to have to pay going 748 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 1: forward each month. So they've done a lot. On top 749 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,080 Speaker 1: of the stimulus that the government provided for households to 750 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 1: get through the pandemic, they've done a lot for individuals. 751 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 1: They've done nothing to solve the systemic problems, and they're 752 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: just like ignoring that. And you know, based on historical 753 00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 1: trends and based on the government's own projections, we're going 754 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,319 Speaker 1: to have as a country another one point six trained 755 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,520 Speaker 1: dollargency in debt within a few years. So I think 756 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:36,120 Speaker 1: it's really remarkable the lack of focus from this administration 757 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:41,719 Speaker 1: or Congress on some of the broader issues. And I 758 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 1: guess my reaction as we close it is it's either 759 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,240 Speaker 1: we've got to do over, you know, in a few years, 760 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:51,360 Speaker 1: which is both not a great thing from a systemic 761 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 1: problem issue, but also I think it presents an opportunity 762 00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 1: to learn from this current experience. The way you put it, Josh, 763 00:42:58,320 --> 00:42:59,839 Speaker 1: this is really great. Can you do a quick shout 764 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,000 Speaker 1: out out to the Debt Trap for anyone who wants 765 00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 1: to like dive deeper into this issue. Yeah, so please 766 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,919 Speaker 1: by all means, by my book b I T dot 767 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:13,080 Speaker 1: l Y Bitley slash Debt Trap book. You can get 768 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 1: it on Amazon, you can get it in independent bookstores. 769 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,280 Speaker 1: The paperback just came out. It goes over the whole history. 770 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,520 Speaker 1: I think it's very important to really understand how we 771 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:26,880 Speaker 1: got here, why we're here, and I think it I 772 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,840 Speaker 1: try to unpack all of these various issues in detail. 773 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,200 Speaker 1: It also has if your history, Boff, just a lot 774 00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:35,720 Speaker 1: of stuff about, you know, how Sputnik launched this whole 775 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:41,200 Speaker 1: program in the first place. So yeah, please, by all means, Josh, 776 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,360 Speaker 1: thank you for joining us on breaking points. Yes, thank you. 777 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,000 Speaker 1: I love being here. Thank you.