Speaker 1: On the Bedel Cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef invest start
Speaker 1: changing it with the Beckdel Cast. Hello and welcome to
Speaker 1: the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Dronte. My name
Speaker 1: is Jamie Loftus, and we host a podcast about the
Speaker 1: portrayal of women in movies. We sure do. I can't
Speaker 1: really see you. I know this is weird. There's a
Speaker 1: bunch of mikes in the way. Here, here we go.
Speaker 1: This is better, hie. So we talk about the representation
Speaker 1: of women in film and how it's usually bad. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's our go to. We use the Bechtel test as
Speaker 1: a jumping out point for discussion, test created by cartoonist
Speaker 1: Alison Bechdel in the nineteen eighties that features a Hey,
Speaker 1: what what is it? Do you want me to see it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I forget. The Bechtel test requires that a movie, let's say,
Speaker 1: has to mainly identifying characters in it with names. Yes,
Speaker 1: they have to speak to each other and guess what
Speaker 1: they should not be talking about? Men? Can we can
Speaker 1: we test drive it right now? Please? Yes, Hey Caitlin,
Speaker 1: Hey Jamie, what's up. There's something about the movie we're
Speaker 1: discussing today that I found very distracting. What is it?
Speaker 1: The bone structure of the lead actress was? It was
Speaker 1: too Does it pass the Victel test if I'm a
Speaker 1: hot woman's face? But I do like, okay, the main
Speaker 1: act who is even the main actress in this in
Speaker 1: this film we're discussing today, because it looks like her
Speaker 1: bones were stung by bees her like her her cheekbones
Speaker 1: are so out of her face. I believe you're talking
Speaker 1: about the character Claire played by Emmanuel I don't know
Speaker 1: what this last name is. Anyways, that did pass. It did,
Speaker 1: But again, I don't know why we're judging a woman
Speaker 1: by her looks or even talking about it. That's I mean.
Speaker 1: But but her her bones gets stung by bees, and
Speaker 1: I wanted to raise awareness someone get helped for Emmanuel
Speaker 1: built get the bees away from her. Yeah. Anyway, so, um,
Speaker 1: usually we don't body shame women on the podcast I
Speaker 1: was doing. I was doing that to prove that the
Speaker 1: Bechtel test is actually flawed. True, Wow, Jamie, Yeah, there
Speaker 1: was a method. It's not a perfect system. The stakes
Speaker 1: are made, which is why we always have a larger
Speaker 1: conversation about just the treatment of women in general in
Speaker 1: the movie. So we are talking about Mission Impossible, and
Speaker 1: we have a guest here with us as always. He
Speaker 1: is a comedian, a writer, and host of the Cracked podcast,
Speaker 1: Alex Schmidt. Hey, great to be here. Hi, thanks for
Speaker 1: I'm so glad to be doing this. I got to
Speaker 1: go back to the nineties by watching the movie. It's great,
Speaker 1: feel good. So what is your history with Mission Impossible,
Speaker 1: the movie, the franchise. I'm some who grew up on
Speaker 1: a lot of James Bond movies. My grandma worked at
Speaker 1: our local library and they had only very specific things
Speaker 1: on VHS, and one of them was the entire James
Speaker 1: Bond franchise, and so I saw all of them when
Speaker 1: I was really really young, and then I just needed
Speaker 1: more movies along those lines, and so I got into
Speaker 1: the Mission Impossible franchise, Like it's kind of I feel
Speaker 1: like it's kind of a filler place holder for when
Speaker 1: you're out of James Bond movies. You can watch Tom Cruise. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of diet James Bond. If James Bond were
Speaker 1: American and way Shorter, Welcome to Mission Impossible. And then
Speaker 1: I feel like, when you're out of Mission Impossible movies,
Speaker 1: you're like, let's see what Jason Bourne is doing. And
Speaker 1: then when you're out of Jason Bourne, you're like, because
Speaker 1: Matt Damon's not even fun to watch at least Tom
Speaker 1: Cruise is fun to watch, yeah, when I was, and
Speaker 1: Tom Cruise and Matt Damon are both way bigger stars
Speaker 1: than basically everyone who's played James Bond except maybe Sean Connery.
Speaker 1: But like, it's just a much more interesting character somehow,
Speaker 1: James Bond, Like I feel like, specially Ethan hunt is
Speaker 1: so he's like a robot name Ethan. I'm just like
Speaker 1: I dare like there, I'm only going to sympathize or
Speaker 1: feel for a character named Ethan to a point. There's
Speaker 1: just you've got to be a really stellar Ethan for
Speaker 1: me to go to the extra mile for you. Right,
Speaker 1: they can't have a super secret agent named Brandon. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm not on brand, Like I'm out immediately. Man. People
Speaker 1: are gonna listen to this podcast in ten years and
Speaker 1: be like, what's wrong with Ethan Ethan as our president?
Speaker 1: What if we had a president Ethan that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: It would be confusing. Sure, Yes, I don't know how
Speaker 1: the Canadians adjusted to a Justin right. Having a manager
Speaker 1: Justin in charge just feels like is he ready? Regardless
Speaker 1: of how qualified he is, his name's Justin, so is
Speaker 1: he ready? I don't know. He sounds like he's fourteen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. Anyways, Anyway, so you grew up,
Speaker 1: would you say, with the way into spy movies. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I didn't see this one in theaters
Speaker 1: because it came out ninety six, so it didn't quite
Speaker 1: line up. But I'm pretty sure I saw the rest
Speaker 1: of them in theaters and also needed to google all
Speaker 1: of them to remember the plots or what happens. Well,
Speaker 1: not to brag, but in preparation for this episode, she
Speaker 1: went full DOWNNY I went, I went like deep Cover
Speaker 1: into Mission Impossible. You were in the main frame. I
Speaker 1: hacked into the main frame. I'm now a member of
Speaker 1: the I m F. I'm so excited of like how
Speaker 1: much we get to talk about hacking today? Can I
Speaker 1: just say I'm so thrilled so much? Also, the I
Speaker 1: m F, I think in real life is some kind
Speaker 1: of World Bank sort of thing. It's very distracting every
Speaker 1: time they say it in the movie. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: they're going to do loans or something. I don't remember
Speaker 1: that actually being the name of their organization in the movies. Okay,
Speaker 1: so my history is that I well, I just rewatched
Speaker 1: all five of them within the span of forty eight hours. Brag. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry or proud. Okay. I like this franchise, Um,
Speaker 1: it's why. Yeah, I have fun with it. I don't
Speaker 1: love it. I don't think they're cinematic masterpieces, but especially
Speaker 1: as they go on, I think they get better and
Speaker 1: I enjoy like Ghost Protocol especially. I liked Ghost Protocol
Speaker 1: is my son's name, really because that's my stripper name
Speaker 1: and they both can be president, right en, my president.
Speaker 1: But I summarily grew up with this franchise. So the
Speaker 1: first one came out in nineties. I was ten, so
Speaker 1: I don't think I saw it right away. I think
Speaker 1: by I saw when I was like twelve. Um, if
Speaker 1: you had asked me at that age what my favorite
Speaker 1: song was, I would have told you it was the
Speaker 1: Mission Impossible theme song. It's a very good theme song. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's great. It's great, like James Bond, it just works. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then I did see Mission Possible to in theaters
Speaker 1: at a drive in movie theater in whatever year that was.
Speaker 1: And if you'd ask me that year what my favorite
Speaker 1: movie was, I would have told you Mission Impossible to,
Speaker 1: even though that movie stinks. But then and then all
Speaker 1: the other ones I saw, like in theaters, I enjoy them,
Speaker 1: and I'm excited about Fallout coming out. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: would say I have a certain soft spot for Mission Impossible. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's also it's like the Fast and Furious franchise where
Speaker 1: it's gotten better lately to like they're on an upswing.
Speaker 1: So with a new one coming out, I'm stoked. See
Speaker 1: I tapped out at Tokyo Drift. I think I haven't
Speaker 1: seen any of that Tokyo Drift is Wait? Is that
Speaker 1: was that a joke? Ar Oh, we're talking. I just
Speaker 1: got so confused. Can I Mission Impossible Tokyo Drift? Okay,
Speaker 1: say something about this movie, which is that I don't
Speaker 1: understand a thing that I felt insane watching this movie.
Speaker 1: Because this is a movie for the public. It's not
Speaker 1: supposed to be like you can't see Mission Impossible unless
Speaker 1: you have a graduate degree, which, by the way, Kayle
Speaker 1: does don't if you know that, Jamie, you know that
Speaker 1: I hate to bring it up, so thank you so
Speaker 1: much trying bringing up that. I do have a master's
Speaker 1: degree in screenwriting from Boston University. But I took the
Speaker 1: MENSA exam the other day failed and it's because I
Speaker 1: don't understand what happens is. I can't make I can't
Speaker 1: make heads or tales of what happens in this fucking movie.
Speaker 1: And like I was telling you, you guys in the elevator,
Speaker 1: like I I thought something was happening, and I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: let me just check Wikipedia to make sure this is
Speaker 1: what is actually happening. So totally different was happening. But
Speaker 1: it also makes no sense to me. This movie is
Speaker 1: for intellectuals. I'm literally too stupid to watch this movie.
Speaker 1: It felt very bad. No, I don't think that's true.
Speaker 1: I only barely understand what happens in the movie because
Speaker 1: I've seen it several times. Doesn't totally make sense. But
Speaker 1: so your history, Jamie, is that I wrested it this
Speaker 1: morning and I was bad. I was like sitting so
Speaker 1: like you, I didn't start watching the movie as close
Speaker 1: to my television. As I ended, I kept getting closer
Speaker 1: because I was just like, maybe it'll make more sense
Speaker 1: to get physically closer to this movie. I don't I
Speaker 1: don't understand what what shall I give you? The recap Jamie?
Speaker 1: And he didn't help you understand what happens in this
Speaker 1: wonderful movie? Yeah, I think. But all that said, I
Speaker 1: think I liked it. I just don't know what happened. Sure, well, okay,
Speaker 1: you're not wrong in finding this movie to be hard
Speaker 1: to follow, because Mission Impossible is about Ethan Hunt. He
Speaker 1: is a spy who works for the I m F,
Speaker 1: which stands for the Impossible Mission Force. Is that it
Speaker 1: I didn't know that's what it stands for. The Yeah,
Speaker 1: that is what it's something like that. It's it's definitely
Speaker 1: impossible mission something is? How do they recruit anybody? Right? Well,
Speaker 1: I think it's somehow affiliated with the CIA, but I
Speaker 1: also don't totally understand that because in the later movies
Speaker 1: like the CIA hates the I MF, so like, who knows?
Speaker 1: Please don't at me and tell me. I would wish
Speaker 1: to remain ignorant of this. But anyway, okay, So Ethan
Speaker 1: Hunt works for this like spy organization, and he and
Speaker 1: his team of people get assigned a mission, and among
Speaker 1: the team is um, Okay, well we'll get there. But
Speaker 1: first it's um Jim Phelps, which is John Foye's character,
Speaker 1: my guy named Jack, which is Amelio Estevez, and then Sarah, Hannah,
Speaker 1: and Claire. So this is the team that is ginger
Speaker 1: parody on the team exactly exactly equal in the middle.
Speaker 1: It had been a long time since I saw this,
Speaker 1: and since the very first person I saw was Emilio Estevez. Like,
Speaker 1: for a second, I thought, oh, is he the lead
Speaker 1: of all of these? I forgot? Did I just super
Speaker 1: super forget who is the main character in the movies
Speaker 1: because it's just Amilio Estevez for about a minute, which
Speaker 1: feels like an eternity. I clutched a little bit when
Speaker 1: I saw him, too, because I was like, oh, that
Speaker 1: would be kind of better. But then you pan up
Speaker 1: and you see his frosty tips, You're like, oh, he's
Speaker 1: a hacker. Now I understand, you know what. I was
Speaker 1: let down by the fact that he was not wearing
Speaker 1: tiny glasses, which is kind of the hackers uniform. He
Speaker 1: had the frosty tips, he didn't have the tiny glasses.
Speaker 1: He did have the black turtleneck, so it's like he
Speaker 1: was two thirds of the way there. He went a
Speaker 1: little rogue by not having tiny reflective glasses. Well, people
Speaker 1: go rogue in these movies all the time. Yeah, Rogue Nation.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, isn't that the name of one
Speaker 1: rogue ghost ghost station um ghostwirld Uh. There is another
Speaker 1: hacker who I thought you were talking about, who we
Speaker 1: meet later on the second Hack, the second that's his
Speaker 1: character's name, Hacker re Ducks. Okay, so this is the team.
Speaker 1: We've barely begun the recap it doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: So they are tasked with finding a bad guy who
Speaker 1: has a list of names of spies. He has one
Speaker 1: half of it already and he needs the other half
Speaker 1: to like actually figure out the identity of the spies.
Speaker 1: So they're gonna basically get evidence that he's trying to
Speaker 1: steal it and then stop him and figure out who
Speaker 1: the buyer is and stop him as well. But as
Speaker 1: they're trying to do this, things start to go wrong
Speaker 1: and people start to die, and everyone dies seemingly except
Speaker 1: for ethan Um. So then he has a rotten go
Speaker 1: ethan President Ethan Everyone we're rooting for Ethan because it's
Speaker 1: hard to remember. So Ethan Hunt is the only one
Speaker 1: left alive on his team. So he calls like his
Speaker 1: pals at the I m F. And he's like, hey, Kittridge,
Speaker 1: who's a superior of his He's like, something's happening. And
Speaker 1: he meets with them, and Kittridge believes him to be
Speaker 1: a mole, and he's like, this whole thing was set
Speaker 1: up as a mole hunt, and it looks like you're
Speaker 1: the mole, Ethan Hunt, and he's like, no, I'm not.
Speaker 1: Your last name is hunting everything, maybe you would one
Speaker 1: we're hunting for. I'm in the You're like, oh, this
Speaker 1: guy is smart. Yeah. Yeah. So Ethan Hunt runs away
Speaker 1: because he's like, I'm not the mole, but I have
Speaker 1: to figure out who is now. So Ethan Hunt learns
Speaker 1: about this mole who's collaborating with an arm stealer named Max,
Speaker 1: so he's like, I gotta go find Max and like
Speaker 1: figure out who the mole is. And there's this whole
Speaker 1: thing where it's like the mole is working with Max
Speaker 1: on this job that they call Job three fourteen, and
Speaker 1: then its actually the the Mole goes by the name
Speaker 1: job and it's a biblical reference and then he's like, okay,
Speaker 1: and then he says distracting from an arrested development stands
Speaker 1: when they shot a job all the time there and
Speaker 1: then Ethan Hunt sends an email to Max at job
Speaker 1: space three colon fourteen and it that works the Internet
Speaker 1: in this movie. The Internet is the most compelling character
Speaker 1: in the Entiremente has the most charisma out of everybody
Speaker 1: doing laps around our Tom the inner the way the
Speaker 1: Internet works, where there's one point where it's like there's
Speaker 1: a window open that says internet and then he types
Speaker 1: in access and then it says like thinking, I was like,
Speaker 1: what is this is misunderstanding dial up? Like what it's
Speaker 1: like one of those old text adventures where it's like
Speaker 1: you're in a cave, turn left and then you like,
Speaker 1: but somehow it's hacking the Internet. Both hackers talk about
Speaker 1: the Internet in like a way that it's like whoever
Speaker 1: wrote this movie was just hoping no one would ask
Speaker 1: a follow up question because there's the second hacker. I
Speaker 1: don't know what his name is because he comes in
Speaker 1: over an hour into the movie. Very cool thing to do,
Speaker 1: just introduce five hundred characters our fifteen and sure, but
Speaker 1: the second hacker, Luther says, in the same sentence, he said,
Speaker 1: as like mainframe motherboard hacking access. And then Tom is like, well,
Speaker 1: we've got to figure this out. You've got like, what
Speaker 1: are you talking about? I just want you to know
Speaker 1: that I just send an email to Max at job
Speaker 1: Space three colon fourteen and it did not work. An
Speaker 1: error message came up right away and said this address
Speaker 1: is not recognized. The CIA wiped them out, clean Ology
Speaker 1: got involved. They're like, this is this was Shelley miss
Speaker 1: Gavages email and it's gone. Now do you guys? Ever,
Speaker 1: when I see a Tom Cruise movie, I give him
Speaker 1: a little bit of credit for just not wedging Scientology
Speaker 1: into it all the time, even though he doesn't deserve
Speaker 1: any you know, every time I see a movie with
Speaker 1: him and it ends, I'm like, I didn't come up once.
Speaker 1: How about that? A little bit proud. There's moments where
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, he could very easily just break the
Speaker 1: fourth wall and start pitching us. He's out our attention
Speaker 1: and surprised he doesn't use this platform to like hawk scientology.
Speaker 1: But no, he he keeps a separation of church and
Speaker 1: career against Yeah, alright. So the rest of the story
Speaker 1: is so he is trying to figure out who this
Speaker 1: mole is named Job. This is where I get very lost.
Speaker 1: So he meets with Max, who turns out as a woman.
Speaker 1: How many times are they going to do this twist?
Speaker 1: The androgynous name twist. Hilarious? Love it, It's so cool.
Speaker 1: So he meets with Max and he's like, by the way, Max,
Speaker 1: who is an arm stealer? Yeah, I'm like an undercover spy,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to get you that list that you wanted,
Speaker 1: pay me a bunch of money, and revealed to me
Speaker 1: who Job is. Vanessa right, Grave is fabulous in this part. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's great. But he basically just reveals this whole identity
Speaker 1: to this person. And then he's like, I'll get the
Speaker 1: thing that you wanted, this you know, list that will
Speaker 1: compromise the identity of however many undercover spies, all of them,
Speaker 1: all of them. Yeah, yeah, just give me like ten
Speaker 1: million dollars and I'll get you this list and I
Speaker 1: just want to know the identity of the mole. And
Speaker 1: it's like that's not a good deal, but we accept
Speaker 1: it because you know, we don't understand really what's happening.
Speaker 1: I also can't hear the plot over the sheer volume
Speaker 1: of Dutch ankles in this movie. You're just like, I can't.
Speaker 1: I have no sense of space or time. So many
Speaker 1: Vanessa Redgrave does not. I'm pretty sure, with the exception
Speaker 1: of two or three shots. Never isn't in a Dutch
Speaker 1: angle in this entire Why I don't. I didn't notice
Speaker 1: that very much. This is a movie for dumb people.
Speaker 1: There's only geniuses and stupid people will understand this movie
Speaker 1: and appreciate people. There's nothing that's like kind of smart people. Um, okay.
Speaker 1: So then he compiles this new team of people, among
Speaker 1: them as Luther, the new hack hacker number two, and
Speaker 1: they plan to infiltrate the CIA and steal this knocklist
Speaker 1: of the list of all the names of the spies.
Speaker 1: And then they do that, and that this is supposed
Speaker 1: to be the impossible mission, because how do you get in.
Speaker 1: There's like there's a voice activation, there's a retinal scan
Speaker 1: the room, if it increases temperature, if there's any pressure
Speaker 1: on the floor, packing hacking, hacky hacking, so all the
Speaker 1: stuff happens. They get the Knocklist. Then it's revealed that
Speaker 1: Jim Phelps John Voyd's character was the mole all along
Speaker 1: and he like set everyone up and him not dead
Speaker 1: at all, him not dead at all, and his wife Claire,
Speaker 1: who does come back I forgot to mention um and
Speaker 1: helps Ethan Hunt in his impossible mission. Ethan Hunt gropes
Speaker 1: her and then she's like, I'm sad John Voitch is dead,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, why were you dating him? But then
Speaker 1: you were married? God, this is like, I mean, of
Speaker 1: all the there you have to suspend your belief a
Speaker 1: lot in this movie, but the fact that she would
Speaker 1: date John voy who in this movie that is twenty
Speaker 1: years old, is already five hundred years old, it's just
Speaker 1: a lot I did. And they introduced that marriage very
Speaker 1: early on, and that was it was like an s
Speaker 1: S thing where I was like, okay, so it's a
Speaker 1: fake marriage, right, like it's definitely she's and then no
Speaker 1: actual marriage, like that's real. Everything else is an illusion, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: The one moment for the clear character that I was
Speaker 1: actually very I was like, oh, that was a good
Speaker 1: acting beasting. She when she pretends to find out that
Speaker 1: John Boyd is dead, she goes, Chuck is dead, and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, so sad. She did love him
Speaker 1: even though she never sat and hear him more spoke
Speaker 1: to him on screen, So uh yeah. The end of
Speaker 1: the story is basically Ethan Hunt on confronting John Voyd's
Speaker 1: character and learning that his wife Claire was like a
Speaker 1: double agent and had like crossed him, and then she
Speaker 1: gets shot dead, and then he has to like proved
Speaker 1: Kittridge that he's not the mall. He's like, here, I
Speaker 1: found the actual mall. There's a whole helicopter thing. There's
Speaker 1: an explosion, there's a train, there's the glasses, there's the
Speaker 1: John Voight mask. Right, you're wearing John Void's face, and
Speaker 1: then you're not. And that's exciting. Yeah, And that's an
Speaker 1: underrated part because it's they convinced Claire to go into
Speaker 1: train car and then Tom Cruise massed as John Void
Speaker 1: is waiting for her, and then after they speak, real
Speaker 1: John Voight immediately pops out from a closet like two
Speaker 1: feet away from top Cruise. So for an indetermined amount
Speaker 1: of time, real John Voight was just watching fake John
Speaker 1: Void from very close quarters. It's great. Why wouldn't Ethan
Speaker 1: Hunt like sweep the room and make sure his enemy
Speaker 1: John Voight isn't hiding in a closet nearby, And how
Speaker 1: were they able to do it on such a quick turnaround. Well,
Speaker 1: the later movies show the maskmaking process and it's really
Speaker 1: eye opening. Yeah, this, this franchise is like obsessive about masks,
Speaker 1: and there's always we'll talk about this a little later,
Speaker 1: but there's certain like recurring things that happened in every
Speaker 1: Mission Impossible movie. I'm down for that. I mean, a
Speaker 1: goofy rubber mask reveal is always very fun. It's not
Speaker 1: as effectively or tastefully done as it is in The
Speaker 1: Master Disguise, which is one of my favorite movies, where
Speaker 1: James Brolin rips off a mask of Bo Derek and
Speaker 1: the audience stands and chairs. Yes, Josh, no, James Brolin,
Speaker 1: the old one. He plays Dana Carvey's father. Dana Carvey's
Speaker 1: forty six in that movie. But but his character is
Speaker 1: supposed to be twenty three. It's wild, my gosh, how
Speaker 1: dare he? Anyways? Well, anyway, so that's the that's the
Speaker 1: story of the first Mission an Impossible movie, as far
Speaker 1: as I can explain it. Um, let's take a quick
Speaker 1: break and we will be back in a moment and
Speaker 1: we're back. Hello, So mission impossible. There can I just
Speaker 1: rip off my John Voyd mask really quickly. Very hot John.
Speaker 1: I thought that was you, but it turns out it
Speaker 1: was Jamie Lofton. John Voyd is actually out on the balcony.
Speaker 1: He'll come in now and we'll have a confrontation. As
Speaker 1: we hinted at during the recap, it seems like there's
Speaker 1: like a parody within the team at the beginning at
Speaker 1: the beginning of the movie where it is three men
Speaker 1: and three women, but once they all die, because they
Speaker 1: all die within the first like twenty minutes except for
Speaker 1: well Claire comes back. But um, basically two of the
Speaker 1: three women die, two of the three men die, so
Speaker 1: we're left with Ethan Hunt and Claire is like kind
Speaker 1: of the main players um in the movie. And then
Speaker 1: it was was president Ethan Was he dating hot lady
Speaker 1: with the red lip? Was that like a thing or
Speaker 1: were they were just where? Were they just pretending because
Speaker 1: of spies? Do you know what character you're talking about? Thomas? Yes,
Speaker 1: I don't think they were dating. I think there's a
Speaker 1: very classic spy move of the two of us need
Speaker 1: to pretend to make out. So there's a reason we're
Speaker 1: just in this alley watching somebody. I think they were
Speaker 1: just doing that, so they were just okay because I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know how attached we're supposed to
Speaker 1: beat because then they're just killed. So it starts gender
Speaker 1: parody and then becomes the opposite as the movie goes on,
Speaker 1: which is great because it's great pretty much all the
Speaker 1: new characters who were introduced, aside from Max is a man,
Speaker 1: because when we meet Kittridge, we meet Luther, we meet Krieger.
Speaker 1: Because I was like, when I was first watching this,
Speaker 1: I was like, I didn't super remember it that while
Speaker 1: I was like, oh wow, is there going to be
Speaker 1: a bunch of women in this movie, that's forgetting that
Speaker 1: they almost all die right away. Also I realized, like, oh,
Speaker 1: what a parent, what a gender parody on the team.
Speaker 1: But then I think they did gender parody so they
Speaker 1: could kill female characters to like create weight, you know.
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of why it's such a female team. Honestly,
Speaker 1: like to give it like if it was an all
Speaker 1: male team and they all die, it's like less feeling.
Speaker 1: Maybe is probably actor producer Tom Cruise's opinion, I think
Speaker 1: it was pretty rough. Yeah, and then he gets to
Speaker 1: have the moment with with Kristen Scott Thomas of like,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have that if that was an all male
Speaker 1: team of like, oh we get we get a kiss
Speaker 1: and we get a item. I don't like that they
Speaker 1: bring all the women and they're like, Okay, well we're
Speaker 1: going to murder them, but we're going to bring the
Speaker 1: model back. And she's John Boyd's wife. Yeah, if he
Speaker 1: and a male agent did the fake out make out
Speaker 1: in the alley, that would have ruled. It would have
Speaker 1: been great, Like that was the move like a band
Speaker 1: called fake up, Like what what you've done if the
Speaker 1: spy that he had been paired up with was a man?
Speaker 1: And it just yeah, it feels gross that it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: well she's a woman, so what choice do you have
Speaker 1: but to pretend to make out with her? And it's like,
Speaker 1: which is something that happens a lot in these movies
Speaker 1: where and this one the first one specifically. So Claire
Speaker 1: comes back after Ethan Hunt thinks that she is among
Speaker 1: all the people who have died on his team, but
Speaker 1: she comes back and he's extremely suspicious of her because
Speaker 1: he thinks maybe she's the mole or maybe the mole
Speaker 1: sent her. So he like pretty violently grabs her, rips
Speaker 1: off her coat like man handles her, pats her, DAPs
Speaker 1: and pats her down in a very like sexually aggressive way,
Speaker 1: throws her on the bed, gets on top of her.
Speaker 1: She's crying. He's like, who's done you? Who sent you?
Speaker 1: She's like no, Like, this is the rendezvous we're supposed
Speaker 1: to like meet. He's screaming at her, his face is
Speaker 1: like enters away from hers, and it's like, take away
Speaker 1: the context of the scene and just look at the
Speaker 1: image and it could easily almost looked like a sex
Speaker 1: scene where he's like, they're on a bed, he's on
Speaker 1: top of her. So it's making what's very like a
Speaker 1: very violent and angry moment and sexualizing it very heavily
Speaker 1: for no reason. Yeah, it's And also keep in mind
Speaker 1: he just screamed at her that her husband died, right,
Speaker 1: He's like, your husband's dead, and then he had like
Speaker 1: kind of attacks her, and we were like, what what
Speaker 1: is happening? And then the way that that bothers me
Speaker 1: with this genre of movie in particular is that we
Speaker 1: see this scene and it is aggressive, and then later
Speaker 1: we find out that she's lying and that she's like
Speaker 1: a double agent, and so that sort of to an
Speaker 1: audience member justifies like, well, it's okay that he did
Speaker 1: that because she was lying, and guy exactly, yeah, right.
Speaker 1: And then well, another interesting thing about the Claire character
Speaker 1: is that so because she was married to John Voight's character,
Speaker 1: we find out that that's what's motivating her to Ethan
Speaker 1: because as far as we know in the beginning, before
Speaker 1: we find out that he's alive and that he was
Speaker 1: lying and he's the mall and that um, she's also
Speaker 1: like collaborating with the bad guy. Her being married to
Speaker 1: him is what's motivating her to help Ethan, which is
Speaker 1: like a reversal of a trope that we usually see
Speaker 1: where it's like my wife for my daughter. So it's yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so for clear, so we're seeing instead my husband
Speaker 1: basically my husband. I don't know how interesting that is.
Speaker 1: It's certainly like a role reversal, but it still feels
Speaker 1: kind of trophy. I think it does. And also it
Speaker 1: ensures that her character from most of the movie, as
Speaker 1: far as we know, her motivation is strictly tied to
Speaker 1: two men, and it's also sort of implied that she
Speaker 1: you know, it's like that she's at the end. John
Speaker 1: Voight basically speaks on her behalf for a whole scene,
Speaker 1: and it's like she was just seducing you. She doesn't
Speaker 1: think you're hot, Tom Cruise. That's like she think I'm hot.
Speaker 1: John voyt like the twist. That's the real twist of
Speaker 1: the movie. But it was like basically he's saying, and
Speaker 1: she's again one of those my favorite action movie tropes,
Speaker 1: which is the woman can watch the last scene of
Speaker 1: the movie, but she cannot participate. Um, so she's fully
Speaker 1: audience and sometime actually be like Ethan. But John voy
Speaker 1: is just stating what her double agent thing was when
Speaker 1: she easily could have and it's also like I sent
Speaker 1: her because she had to seduce you, Like that was
Speaker 1: clearly what his character saw the value. And then he's
Speaker 1: what was that thing he said about like I got
Speaker 1: I got a taste of it or something disgustingly some
Speaker 1: cross thing like I've tasted the goods or the goods, Yeah,
Speaker 1: at the goods myself, And I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: she's there, you know, right, But then he shoots her
Speaker 1: like two seconds later. Yeah, he's like my wife, who
Speaker 1: it seemed like they were on the same page and
Speaker 1: actually loved each other because they were working side by side.
Speaker 1: It didn't make sense that he shot it, right. No, right,
Speaker 1: But even so, like I don't know it just what
Speaker 1: had been established about their relationship is like totally negated
Speaker 1: whenever he shoots her for no fucking reason. Right. His
Speaker 1: character is confusing to me. Her character is also confusing
Speaker 1: to me. It's sort of is explained at the very end,
Speaker 1: but we don't know why she's doing that job outside
Speaker 1: of her loyalty to her husband. Really, we don't know
Speaker 1: anything about her, and then her husband kills her. So
Speaker 1: I have a question about did she and Tom Cruise
Speaker 1: hook up? Was that fade to black suggestion that they
Speaker 1: hooked up or did she just like lick his hand
Speaker 1: and then he was like good night, I'm in real life?
Speaker 1: Second thing for sure. I mean this is also these
Speaker 1: movies the few ways they're different from Bond movies. I
Speaker 1: feel like between Tom Cruise being the star of all
Speaker 1: of them and being the producer of all of them,
Speaker 1: and there's there's not really a lot of other carryover
Speaker 1: between them, like it's basically James Bond but a sexual.
Speaker 1: Not that there's anything wrong with being a sexual if
Speaker 1: you are, but like there's no I feel like Tom
Speaker 1: Cruise as a person in life doesn't know how to
Speaker 1: deal with women at all, and so it just carries
Speaker 1: over to the screen. So it's a James Bond movie
Speaker 1: or James Bond has no interest in women. But it's
Speaker 1: just like doing the beats of it, you know, like
Speaker 1: a hot woman to be around Vond and I don't
Speaker 1: want to kiss. Yeah, right, Bond is like a womanizer
Speaker 1: like always. But well, okay, I actually so, because I
Speaker 1: watched all of the Mission Impossible movies, I made a
Speaker 1: few notes on each one and I just basically um
Speaker 1: some you know, recurring motifs and whatnot. So for Mission
Speaker 1: Impossible to which came out in two thousands, there's basically
Speaker 1: only one female character in the entire thing, played by
Speaker 1: Sandy Newton. There's a scene where she and Ethan Hunt
Speaker 1: are in a bathtub hiding from like a bad guy
Speaker 1: or something, and he's on top of her and she's like, actually,
Speaker 1: I like to be on top, So then she wraps
Speaker 1: her legs around him and like flips them over so
Speaker 1: that she's on top of him. She's then straddling him
Speaker 1: while she's like stealing some jewelry. They are wearing clothes,
Speaker 1: but they're wearing turtle she is she is using tools
Speaker 1: to steal this jewelry that are disguised as a makeup
Speaker 1: compact and a lipstick. You know, when you're a woman
Speaker 1: and you're like a thief or spy, your tools have
Speaker 1: to be disguised as makeup. Those are the rules. Because
Speaker 1: it reminds me of in this first movie. I feel
Speaker 1: like the famous thing is stealing the thing in the
Speaker 1: Cia vault and Tom Cruise floating over the floor. All
Speaker 1: three of the guys have very male jobs in it.
Speaker 1: And then Claire's job is to just score stuff into coffee. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: she gets the most boring ship to do out of
Speaker 1: every like a very It's also kind of like she
Speaker 1: has to be like flirtatious because she's sitting next to
Speaker 1: the guy. They're like on the same side of the table.
Speaker 1: No one's across from him. It's like a really weird
Speaker 1: They're just like sitting side by side like touches. He's
Speaker 1: way too close to him. He looks up, she smiles
Speaker 1: at him. And he's like, oh, pretty girl, smile to me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then the script Tom Cruise wrote that she was
Speaker 1: probably like she uses girl powers to do it, Like
Speaker 1: that's it, Like he doesn't know anything about women, so
Speaker 1: like their power is girl stuff, like to self act
Speaker 1: Nicole what girls do and put in the script there. Yeah, yeah, wait. Oh,
Speaker 1: so there's a couple of uh my favorite moment of
Speaker 1: Mission Impossible to Anthony Hopkins is in this one, and
Speaker 1: he is void and busy. I guess no, he dies
Speaker 1: at the end of Mission Impossible. I thought that I
Speaker 1: just bad that I started just assumed he would come back.
Speaker 1: Who seems like characters in this franchise can kind of
Speaker 1: just come back. I'm my god, he's probably well, I
Speaker 1: want to talk about that in a second. But so,
Speaker 1: Anthony Hopkins is trying to get Ethan Hunt to recruit
Speaker 1: Sandy Newton's character to like join their team because of
Speaker 1: her past relationship to the man that they're trying to
Speaker 1: get close to, and Ethan Hunt, who's developing a romantic
Speaker 1: relationship with her for no reason other than they need
Speaker 1: to see a Hawkeye and Hawk girl kissing on screen. Um,
Speaker 1: he says, no, she doesn't have the training for that
Speaker 1: kind of thing. And Anthony Hopkins says, to go to
Speaker 1: bed with a man and lie to him. She's a woman.
Speaker 1: She's got all the training she needs. It's like, okay,
Speaker 1: we get it, Anthony Hopkins, you've been dumps. Stop projecting, honey,
Speaker 1: who's Beth? I don't know? Oh really, really quick. Um.
Speaker 1: The use of gadgets in Mission Impossible is great. The
Speaker 1: gum impractical. If you sat on that gum you would
Speaker 1: blow up. It doesn't It's like what if Tom Cruise,
Speaker 1: God forbid, put that gum in his back pocket, he
Speaker 1: would explode and then the glasses flip. Sorry, anyways, Amelia
Speaker 1: did a great job. Also Amelia in this movie, and
Speaker 1: I double checked to make sure this is true. For
Speaker 1: some reason, Alex to go uncredited in this His name
Speaker 1: is not in the credits. He's in why It more
Speaker 1: than a lot of people. Yeah, he has quite a
Speaker 1: few lines and he's really in it. Yeah, it's not
Speaker 1: just a cameo. He's uncredited. His death is so gruesome
Speaker 1: by the way he gets like a elevator spiked to
Speaker 1: the face. Final destination is horrible. So talking about your
Speaker 1: point of like recurring characters, Jamie of all the movies
Speaker 1: in the franchise, it's always the same leading man of
Speaker 1: Tom Cruise play Ethan Hunt. And there's quite a few
Speaker 1: recurring side characters who are except for one example, all men,
Speaker 1: because you have Simon Pegg's character who comes I think
Speaker 1: he's introduced in the third movie and then he's in
Speaker 1: I think all the other ones after that. Luther is
Speaker 1: in I think every movie or every movie but one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's always happy. Yeah, Jeremy Renner character gets introduced and
Speaker 1: he's in a couple of the movies. So it's several men.
Speaker 1: And then there is one character who I think in
Speaker 1: the third movie, um Ethan Hunt gets married, uh to
Speaker 1: Michelle right. I don't know if that sound and then
Speaker 1: she shows up again in another movie, but only for
Speaker 1: like a split second. So it's really any of the
Speaker 1: notable characters who are recurring are all men, and of
Speaker 1: the women who so in the movies there's usually one
Speaker 1: main woman. They're not really romantic lead because yeah, he
Speaker 1: is often like kind of a sexual the a sexual
Speaker 1: bond girls well like so it's not a sexual because
Speaker 1: they are usually sexualized in some way and there is
Speaker 1: often like a moment where they either have like a
Speaker 1: flirtation or some sort of sexual tension, but there's like
Speaker 1: a female lead. She changes every single time in the movie.
Speaker 1: There's no recurring female leads. Usually as the movies go on,
Speaker 1: they stay at the same age, but all the other
Speaker 1: like you know, Tom Cruise and everyone gets older, so
Speaker 1: we don't Tom Cruise could be drinking the blood of
Speaker 1: young people and would immortal. Sure, We've all seen interview
Speaker 1: with a vampire, so that tracks there being no recurring
Speaker 1: women in the movie. I feel like sends a message
Speaker 1: to everyone who's seeing this, especially the men, that it's
Speaker 1: like cool to be a playboy, and it's cool to
Speaker 1: have like a bunch of different women, and whenever you
Speaker 1: get bored with one, you can just like dump her
Speaker 1: and move on to the next. I feel the Bond
Speaker 1: franchise is much more guilty of this than Mission Impossible,
Speaker 1: but it's still implying that like women can be replaced,
Speaker 1: that they're basically just like objects that you can cast
Speaker 1: aside and recast in a new movie. I want to
Speaker 1: see a movie about the island where Tom Cruise sends
Speaker 1: women when they turned thirty. I wanted to see a
Speaker 1: movie about all of Tom Cruise's former co stars who
Speaker 1: he shipped off to an island on their thirtieth birthday. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: because there that that is such a trope of this
Speaker 1: genre and of I mean, but it really spans all
Speaker 1: genres where rom coms are often very guilty of this.
Speaker 1: You know, in historically, male entertainers tend to get more
Speaker 1: opportunities to do things later into their lives and are
Speaker 1: also just given I mean, even John Voight's character in
Speaker 1: the first movie, the massive age gap between him and
Speaker 1: his Uh not not to shame anyone who has made
Speaker 1: December robmance, but this is fucking ridiculous. Like it's it's
Speaker 1: pretty much the often the only representation we see of
Speaker 1: like a hetero romantic relationship where it's a much older man.
Speaker 1: It's like, if there is a movie with an older
Speaker 1: man as the lead, it's very rare to see his
Speaker 1: romantic partner be his contemporary. Yeah, she's almost most always
Speaker 1: like years younger than him. And it's interesting because I
Speaker 1: think that these tropes in this movie in particular are
Speaker 1: kind of like it's it's very clear to see them
Speaker 1: because there is this whole kind of sexless vibe to
Speaker 1: this movie where you see these tropes, and it's like
Speaker 1: they've plugged in all the like young women dates, old man,
Speaker 1: hot women interested in the lead, but it's presented in
Speaker 1: such a non sexual way for the male lead that
Speaker 1: it's almost just like this weird roadmap of like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is how all action movies are, regardless of whether
Speaker 1: it makes sense for the plot or the cares. Because
Speaker 1: in James Bond movies, it's so knocking you over the head,
Speaker 1: it's so sexual, but this one, it's like almost like
Speaker 1: there's like a little bit of an uncanny quality to
Speaker 1: the way women are treated, because it doesn't make sense
Speaker 1: in such a non sexual movie for women to be
Speaker 1: presented this way. But it's just like, well, this is
Speaker 1: what we do in these movies, and it's just again,
Speaker 1: it's very bizarre to me that he works in every
Speaker 1: of the movies. There's why who's a woman who he
Speaker 1: works with and who proves herself to be very competent,
Speaker 1: and yet why don't we ever see her again? Sometimes well,
Speaker 1: sometimes she dies in the movie, but if she doesn't,
Speaker 1: it would stand to reason because other of the like
Speaker 1: male characters who are recurring, like Luther and Simon Pegg's
Speaker 1: character and Jeremy Renner's character, like they come back, why
Speaker 1: don't any of the women get to? And this also
Speaker 1: got me thinking that so even in this, in this
Speaker 1: first movie that came out, a few of the main
Speaker 1: men are Tom Cruise, Emilio Estevez, John Voight, three like famous,
Speaker 1: recognizable dudes who are still even like over twenty years later,
Speaker 1: still famous, still recognizable. The women whose character's names are Sarah, Hannah,
Speaker 1: and Claire. I, off top of my head don't know
Speaker 1: those actresses names, even though we just I just said
Speaker 1: one Emmanuel, like I've never I don't know her. That
Speaker 1: might be sort of familiar faces, but I don't recognize
Speaker 1: them by names certainly. And it got me on this
Speaker 1: train of thought where I wonder if lesser known women
Speaker 1: get cast in these parts opposite men, because it's like,
Speaker 1: are they worried the women, like a more famous woman
Speaker 1: is gonna upstage the man, you know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 1: but that varies for franchise to franchise, But in this one,
Speaker 1: especially like in the later movies, the woman who gets
Speaker 1: cast opposite Tom Cruise is usually familiar, but not like
Speaker 1: a household name, like maybe it's like, oh, well, they're
Speaker 1: giving like an up and coming actress her chance? Is
Speaker 1: it bad to say actress? I feel like it's this actor,
Speaker 1: an actor who's a woman, her chance. But I also
Speaker 1: wonder if it's like, well, like Tom Cruise doesn't want
Speaker 1: to be upstaged by like a woman, just as famousism.
Speaker 1: I don't know. This might be all pure speculation, but
Speaker 1: I think this is true of and it doesn't vary
Speaker 1: from franchise to franchise, but I think this is actually
Speaker 1: pretty common for like action franchises like this. I think
Speaker 1: that this this rule definitely applies to Transformers This. That's
Speaker 1: the franchise that came to my mind where Megan Fox
Speaker 1: became such a big name off of that movie and
Speaker 1: then she kind of got like blackballed from that franchise
Speaker 1: because she was kind of like too big and was
Speaker 1: asking to be treated fairly and they're like, oh no,
Speaker 1: we'll just get someone else. Yeah, instead of treating you
Speaker 1: fairly and like your work has impact on this franchise,
Speaker 1: we will literally just recast you. Yeah, I think, because
Speaker 1: I think with a lot of these franchises too, you
Speaker 1: can just see those Hollywood machine parts moving of Oh,
Speaker 1: we just need a new lady, new lady and then impossible.
Speaker 1: It's sort of extra weird because I think it's also
Speaker 1: just partly driven with Tom Cruise the person being like
Speaker 1: he's probably bad at hanging out with women or like
Speaker 1: being around them, Like he clearly wants the exact same
Speaker 1: dudes on set every time around, like this new one
Speaker 1: I think is the first repeat director, but it's only
Speaker 1: been male directors. It's the same guys on the crew
Speaker 1: all the time. He just wants Alec Baldwin and Ving
Speaker 1: Rahim's back all the time, but constantly new women all
Speaker 1: the time, just everywhere. Yeah, yeah, Tom Cruise, I mean,
Speaker 1: and and we just we just don't have time to
Speaker 1: unpack Tom Cruise today. But there's when will there be time?
Speaker 1: You know, there's so many levels of fucory to the
Speaker 1: career of Tom Cruise, and Tom Cruise as he pertains
Speaker 1: to women, shouts out to Katie and Nicole, Boy, they
Speaker 1: have to deal with some shit really bad. You can
Speaker 1: read up on it if if you want. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I would imagine I'm just shot in the
Speaker 1: dark here. Tom Cruise probably does not want and actress
Speaker 1: who is his equal experience wise on screen with him,
Speaker 1: because it seems like he has a pathological fear of
Speaker 1: being upstaged. Yeah, yeah, that would be That would be
Speaker 1: another thing I guess. I will say I didn't know
Speaker 1: that Emmanuel bay Are is within a year of the
Speaker 1: same age as Tom Cruise. Sure in this movie when
Speaker 1: he is young, she is an age appropriate person for him.
Speaker 1: In this movie, she's not age appropriate for John Voight, who,
Speaker 1: as I said, was born in eighteen ninety six if
Speaker 1: you can believe was eighteen nine six. That's so crazy
Speaker 1: that he's still working. Sure, it means like, yeah, she
Speaker 1: is age appropriate in this movie, but twenty two years later,
Speaker 1: when this franchise is still going on and the women
Speaker 1: who are you know cast opposite him are still you know, thirty.
Speaker 1: So let's take a quick break and we will be
Speaker 1: back shortly, and we're back. Another thing I wanted to
Speaker 1: talk about, and Alex you touched on this is like
Speaker 1: that very iconic scene where Tom Cruise is like dangling
Speaker 1: on the rope, like suspended, kind of in mid air
Speaker 1: when he's like trying to steal the knocklist. That scene
Speaker 1: has been like spoofed, parodied, alluded to in like bazillions
Speaker 1: of things in pop culture, one of them being Paddington,
Speaker 1: but that's neither here nor there. But please go check
Speaker 1: out the movie Paddington and Paddington too if you haven't
Speaker 1: um anyway, So it got me thinking about very famous
Speaker 1: and iconic movie scenes like this. I made a list
Speaker 1: which will take probably too long to go through, but
Speaker 1: you can. There's like super cuts on YouTube of like
Speaker 1: you know, iconic movie scenes or like famous movie quotes,
Speaker 1: and you'll find that almost all of them involve men,
Speaker 1: not a woman to be seen. And if there is
Speaker 1: a woman to be seen, uh, it is usually in
Speaker 1: like a very romantic, hetero context. So if we're thinking,
Speaker 1: like you had me at Hello, right, she's declaring her
Speaker 1: love for a man, she's sometimes if she's in a
Speaker 1: Harrison Ford movie, chances are she's being grabbed by Harrison
Speaker 1: Ford and kissed. Forcibly, God, I hate Harrison Everyone's dream
Speaker 1: Oh God, push them out a window. But but I do.
Speaker 1: I want to believe it about the about the iconic scenes. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's unfortunate. Fortunately, I think we at least in
Speaker 1: the past ten years, have more female action heroes to
Speaker 1: choose from, which is great, but it's still yeah, in
Speaker 1: in terms of the history of cinema. It's really just
Speaker 1: straight ladies kissing straight dudes, and sometimes they get in
Speaker 1: a line, and sometimes if they're lucky, and sometimes you
Speaker 1: get Scarlett O'Hara shaking her fist at the sky and
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, that's exciting. But wait, she's a slave owner,
Speaker 1: so that's not good either. So movies are bad. Movies
Speaker 1: are not good. Oh, just a couple. So going back
Speaker 1: to some of the other sequels, a few things I
Speaker 1: wanted to mention or just trends that I found is
Speaker 1: that there's almost always a scene where Ethan Hunt does
Speaker 1: something to a female character that is not a sexual act,
Speaker 1: like hiding from a bad guy or like searching them
Speaker 1: because he thinks they're suspicious, but the movie always frames
Speaker 1: it as something very sexual because he isn't usually ever
Speaker 1: given a romantic interest in the movies. So, like, you know, whatever, director, producer,
Speaker 1: writer was like, well, we still have to have you know,
Speaker 1: Tom Cruise fondling a woman on the screener. Who's gonna
Speaker 1: want to see this? Right? He's like, I have to
Speaker 1: prove that I am a man who likes girls and
Speaker 1: everyone needs to see Yeah, yeah, I don't. His vibe
Speaker 1: is so creepy, and and not just this movie, like
Speaker 1: Top Gun, a lot of things from this era. In particular,
Speaker 1: he the way he deals with women is like very intense.
Speaker 1: To me, it just seems really creepy. And watching this movie,
Speaker 1: I started developing a fan theory that he's just like
Speaker 1: two teenagers in a long coat or something and he
Speaker 1: doesn't know what to do, so he's doing bad things.
Speaker 1: And he's five four, he's one teenage And it is
Speaker 1: wild how just like such intense, insecure masculine energy is
Speaker 1: broadcast to the largest possible audience. It is fascinating. Sociologically,
Speaker 1: Tom Cruise's career is fascinated because you're like, he's so
Speaker 1: insecure about whatever. Who knows, He won't tell us, but
Speaker 1: but we all have to. We all have to watch it.
Speaker 1: And I love it. And he's always running. Have you
Speaker 1: seen the supercut of him running? Though? There's an eighteen
Speaker 1: minute video just of someone took all the scenes in
Speaker 1: every movie has ever been in of him running. It's
Speaker 1: eighteen minutes long and it's actually amazing. Wow, there's five
Speaker 1: minutes of Tom Cruise running in two thousand eighteen alone. Wild. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can watch it like one of those Christmas log videos,
Speaker 1: like it's just the same thing endlessly. It's kind of
Speaker 1: calming after party. A few of the other trends I noticed,
Speaker 1: um is that there's often violence against both men and
Speaker 1: women in these movies. But often when a woman is
Speaker 1: killed it's because she's been like captured and tied up
Speaker 1: and you know, murdered in cold blood kind of thing,
Speaker 1: whereas when men die, it's usually because they're like in
Speaker 1: combat and they're like fighting for themselves. There are a
Speaker 1: few exceptions where there's different agents who are like kicking
Speaker 1: acid fighting. In fact, there's one scene and I think
Speaker 1: it's it's either it goes protocol or rogue nation. But um,
Speaker 1: there's a woman who's like fighting a room full of
Speaker 1: bad guys and like Tom Choose is tied up so
Speaker 1: like he can't help right away, so it's like her
Speaker 1: like kicking ass. Yeah yeah, and she has to like
Speaker 1: save him and help him. Um. So every once in
Speaker 1: a while there will be like a role reversal like that,
Speaker 1: But for the most part, in these movies, women are
Speaker 1: sexualized in some way very needlessly. They are often dams old.
Speaker 1: There are a few, you know, characters who come and
Speaker 1: go who are like, oh, yeah, she's pretty cool, she's
Speaker 1: a badass, but she of course isn't given a personality
Speaker 1: or anything like that. But so yeah, the treatment over
Speaker 1: the span of this franchise of women is peculiar because
Speaker 1: they don't just entirely because some you know, action franchises,
Speaker 1: the women will just be damns old and she can't
Speaker 1: fight for herself, she can't do anything. Um, she's given
Speaker 1: no skills, no part salting, anything like that. And these movies,
Speaker 1: at least there are like women agents who are like
Speaker 1: fighting and like doing cool stuff, and some of them
Speaker 1: are hacking even and some of them are like, you know,
Speaker 1: doing this and that. But the first, like in the
Speaker 1: first movie, at least, it seems like Tom Cruise and
Speaker 1: John Boy respect the women they're working with, don't call
Speaker 1: their qualifications into question, which is a low bar to set.
Speaker 1: But in most movies like this, you know, you'd have
Speaker 1: that moment of like, can she really do her job
Speaker 1: and be so very hot, and then she has to
Speaker 1: prove it. There aren't those proving moments in this, in
Speaker 1: the first movie at least, but it's still it's like
Speaker 1: they treat women like neutral to light negative and and
Speaker 1: I think do what a lot of these movies do
Speaker 1: and what the vast majority movies do, which is kind
Speaker 1: of just like forget about its female characters for large
Speaker 1: swaths of the movie and then go back to them
Speaker 1: when they need something sexy to happen. But there's not
Speaker 1: really any character motivated sense that we ever cut to Claire.
Speaker 1: It always has to be like, oh, a sexy thing
Speaker 1: needs to happen, or John Voight is going to enter
Speaker 1: the room soon, like those are mostly hercus and so
Speaker 1: it's just like, I mean, I can't believe that Tom
Speaker 1: Cruise can't write a female character. I can't believe it.
Speaker 1: I mean, is he writing these at all? Is he?
Speaker 1: I'm sure he's probably like the character to do this movie,
Speaker 1: this thing in this movie, but like the fifth one,
Speaker 1: in the upcoming sixth one, the director is his like
Speaker 1: previous script doctor on these, it's Christopher mcquarie, So I
Speaker 1: think he. I think he does the Will Smith thing
Speaker 1: where he has a script guy that he puts in,
Speaker 1: so he's not like writing writing it, but he's telling
Speaker 1: someone what the type kind of right, all they said
Speaker 1: this is a fun movie that does not treat women.
Speaker 1: It's like it doesn't treat women well, it doesn't really
Speaker 1: treat women at all. It is a very non sexual
Speaker 1: action movie movie, which is unusual because I feel like
Speaker 1: actual movies so often tip into outright misogyny. This one
Speaker 1: doesn't because it just doesn't. Is like, this movie doesn't
Speaker 1: know how to talk to girls. Like literally, this as
Speaker 1: a text does not know how to talk to girls
Speaker 1: and largely doesn't. Yeah, it's in like the corner of
Speaker 1: a middle school dance. It's just like, what do I
Speaker 1: do all the time? I worked so hard on my outfit,
Speaker 1: but I don't know how to talk to anybody. But
Speaker 1: that said, because it just is like kind of awkward
Speaker 1: and the way it treats its characters a lot of
Speaker 1: the time, I still was able to enjoy it. I
Speaker 1: don't know, Like I I was like, this movie makes
Speaker 1: no sense. You have to be a literal genius to
Speaker 1: understand what's going on here. That's not The story is
Speaker 1: not well written, and like, why would a arms dealer
Speaker 1: want a knock list of spies? Like that just doesn't
Speaker 1: make a whole lot of sense. Her job to figure
Speaker 1: out she would need it at all? Right? Is she
Speaker 1: an arms steeler and a list dealer? Like she's just
Speaker 1: gonna flip it. I don't give it. And then why
Speaker 1: why would Ethan Hunt whose job is a spy and
Speaker 1: a huge part of being a spy is to not
Speaker 1: let other people know that you're a spy. Why would
Speaker 1: Max that he's a spy. That's a classic Bond move
Speaker 1: to He just like goes into a casino and they're like,
Speaker 1: you need to do some detective work here, and he
Speaker 1: just walks up to people and he's like, I'm James Bond,
Speaker 1: where's the villain? It's great, it's really fun, like, oh, sure, okay,
Speaker 1: I guess we're just going full dummy on this, right.
Speaker 1: So it's not that you need to be a genius
Speaker 1: to understand this movie. It's that this story, i would argue,
Speaker 1: is not clear or that well written. But the John
Speaker 1: Voight mask rip really does make it worth the time.
Speaker 1: The mask reveals, especially as the franchise goes on, are
Speaker 1: very fun. You're like, this person that I thought was
Speaker 1: Philip Seymour halfman is actually is that one elf? Oh
Speaker 1: my god, then you got me again, which every time
Speaker 1: that happened, someone went Ethan, come on, you're so crazy.
Speaker 1: You get these maths if someone photoshops mission and Parmesan
Speaker 1: do it to us now. I feel like you've been
Speaker 1: holding that in for an hour. The five seconds I
Speaker 1: thought of it and then said it was real heard them,
Speaker 1: Oh boy? Um, does anyone have any other thoughts about
Speaker 1: the movie? Oh real quick? I actually wanted to talk
Speaker 1: about the character of Max who So before we see
Speaker 1: we meet Max on screen, Max has talked about a
Speaker 1: lot and the pronouns that are used are he because
Speaker 1: everyone assumes that Max the arm Dealer is a he.
Speaker 1: And then there's a big reveal that whenever we meet
Speaker 1: Max on screen, it's actually a woman, which we've covered
Speaker 1: here and there on the podcast before, where it's I
Speaker 1: don't know how commonly recurring this trope is, but it's
Speaker 1: definitely a trope where you know a character who you
Speaker 1: thought was a man surprised either they take off their
Speaker 1: mask or they take off their helmet or whatever, or
Speaker 1: you know, we just meet them and it's actually a woman.
Speaker 1: It bothers me that like someone's gender is like used
Speaker 1: as a big surprising reveal, but it also might be
Speaker 1: like providing commentary on how gender normative everyone is, where
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, this person who's a an armstealer or
Speaker 1: you know, driving a motorcycle, or a doctor who you
Speaker 1: think might be a man just kidding. A woman can
Speaker 1: be those things too. It's a shitty reveal, and it's
Speaker 1: recycled over and over and over. I feel like most
Speaker 1: commonly in a movie like this, but sometimes it's kind
Speaker 1: of crosses genres as well. Yeah, yeah, And I don't
Speaker 1: know how there is to talk about her character aside
Speaker 1: from that, because she's just sort of there being a
Speaker 1: plot device. Essentially, she's pretty much given no characterization. And
Speaker 1: also what she doesn't makes no sense because again, she's
Speaker 1: an arm stealer. I don't understand what her situation is.
Speaker 1: She's just like, I think it's one of those situations.
Speaker 1: It's it's not quite Walking and Jelie. But sorry, that's
Speaker 1: a really highbrow reference to Christopher Walkins one scene in
Speaker 1: Jeelie It's not quite Walking and Jeelie, where it truly
Speaker 1: appears that the actor in question was told they would
Speaker 1: be given an amount of money to wander on set
Speaker 1: and just hold a cup and be like, here were
Speaker 1: some words off the top of my head. But there
Speaker 1: is a quality to Vanessa Redgrave's part where it's like
Speaker 1: she's sort of just acting like herself for like, kind
Speaker 1: of a character of herself of like a very posh,
Speaker 1: like smart woman who isn't going to tell you everything,
Speaker 1: you know, Like her character doesn't make a ton of sense.
Speaker 1: I that said, I am glad she's there. I love her.
Speaker 1: I love her. Her scenes with Tom Cruise are weirdly,
Speaker 1: but I think it's because they're so non sexual. That's
Speaker 1: why they're compelling. I'm just like, how does Tom Cruise
Speaker 1: view this woman? Does he think of her? How does he?
Speaker 1: It's very unclear. I think a more interesting movie than
Speaker 1: this one would have been an exploration of an arm
Speaker 1: steeler who's a woman and what that life is like,
Speaker 1: Like is she taken seriously by her buyers and other
Speaker 1: male arms steelers? Let's explore that, Let's unpack. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: if she we never see her like knock anybody's heads
Speaker 1: together anything, So clearly she did a lot of that before,
Speaker 1: and that would have been really exciting to see, you know,
Speaker 1: like nobody gets to that position without enforcing first you know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: where's the origin story? Let's like it? Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: but that's None of the characters here are well written
Speaker 1: or really make any sense. So that's why I love it.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just a weird move. Be uh, it's
Speaker 1: just a weird movie. Tom Cruise is a is a
Speaker 1: weird man. I have terrific teeth. Tom Cruise is problematic
Speaker 1: as hell, but I honestly quite enjoy him and I
Speaker 1: like a lot of his movies. He is an actor
Speaker 1: who leads with his teeth, which is wild. Like if
Speaker 1: you watch Tom Cruise act, his teeth somehow our first, like,
Speaker 1: you know, like some people lead with their hips, but
Speaker 1: Tom he's just like going into every role tooth first.
Speaker 1: Chances are Tom Cruise is running towards you were unning,
Speaker 1: running somewhere teeth first shining. I think he just has
Speaker 1: one gigantic tooth and then draws in the lines that
Speaker 1: he's a complicated man. Look, this movie, the First Mission
Speaker 1: Possible movie is not that great. I have never seen
Speaker 1: any of the TV shows, so I don't really I'm
Speaker 1: not a familiar with the source material. Kind of goofy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just I'm sure it's like can't be sixties like
Speaker 1: super camp kind of thing. But as the movies go on,
Speaker 1: they get better and better. I think Ghost Protocol might
Speaker 1: be my favorite Um, I liked three enough to buy
Speaker 1: it on DVD. Mission Possible To is objectively a bad movie,
Speaker 1: but the rest are like pretty pretty decent, and I
Speaker 1: think easier to understand. So, like, I think the first
Speaker 1: one and the first two are just like what the
Speaker 1: fund is happening in this movie, but I think they
Speaker 1: get better as they go on. But um, yeah, so
Speaker 1: this is a franchise I enjoy when I'm not looking
Speaker 1: at it through the backtel cast lens. But when I
Speaker 1: am doing that, you know, it's not hard to see
Speaker 1: that this franchise does not treat women especially well. There
Speaker 1: are certainly franchises that do a much worse job. There
Speaker 1: are some that maybe do a better job. But action franchise,
Speaker 1: you'd be hard pressed I find one that like it's
Speaker 1: a feminist masterpiece, because I can't think of any off
Speaker 1: the top of my head that are, well, there's the alien,
Speaker 1: that's true. Yeah, I mean there are like good female
Speaker 1: action here is, some of whom we've covered on this
Speaker 1: very podcast, But as far as this particular formula goes
Speaker 1: where it's like a male action lead, which is of them.
Speaker 1: I'd be interested if any of our listeners could come
Speaker 1: to us with a male action lead franchise that has
Speaker 1: female characters that are treated well. Yeah, because certainly, like
Speaker 1: as we discussed already, Bond does not do a good job,
Speaker 1: Indiana Jones does not do a good job. Yeah. So yeah,
Speaker 1: action franchises have a long history of not treating women well.
Speaker 1: Speaking of does this movie pass the Bechtel tests? Not?
Speaker 1: Women don't even make eye contact in this movie. It's
Speaker 1: crazy and it really and like I wrote down, I
Speaker 1: was like, this scene where they're all prepeping, this scene
Speaker 1: where they are propeping, the scheme is like the seven
Speaker 1: minute mark. I was like, they are going to have
Speaker 1: women talk to each other. We're going to get it.
Speaker 1: And then they don't. And then there's never even two
Speaker 1: women in the same room. They would really tease you
Speaker 1: at the top, but like, uh, they don't even look
Speaker 1: at each other. I went back and rewatched the scene,
Speaker 1: partially to check out Amelia's tips, but mostly to see
Speaker 1: if women even look. They don't even look at each other.
Speaker 1: There's no acknowledgement. It's mostly Tom Cruise being like, can
Speaker 1: we get a capucio machine? My name is I want
Speaker 1: to better coffee? Didn't I have? And then and then
Speaker 1: John Voyd's like, yeah, my wife made that coffee and
Speaker 1: then she's like I made that coffee end of scene. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Because if people haven't seen this movie at a while,
Speaker 1: it's like Tom Cruise trying to do what he thinks
Speaker 1: adults do at work when they choke around. It is
Speaker 1: really really weird or grown up. It's really like he
Speaker 1: like flipped through some Dilbert and was like, this is
Speaker 1: probably it. Yeah, they talk about cappuccino a boss a
Speaker 1: roof good enough for me. My name is Ethan. So
Speaker 1: let us rate the movie on our nipple scale, where
Speaker 1: we rate the movie based on its portrayal of women
Speaker 1: zero to five nipples. I'm going to have to give
Speaker 1: this one, I think, like a one, And maybe that's
Speaker 1: even being too generous. Like I had such high hopes
Speaker 1: starting out because I was like, oh, three of the
Speaker 1: six people on this team of spies or women, like
Speaker 1: is this gonna be dope? And then they pretty much
Speaker 1: all instantly get murdered. So it's not the feminist text
Speaker 1: that we were all hoping for. The women who do
Speaker 1: survive and don't get murdered, yeah, their motivations are not
Speaker 1: totally clear or they are attached to a man. They
Speaker 1: aren't really given much cool to do on screen, Like
Speaker 1: we already talked about Claire, like when they're like going
Speaker 1: in to steal the Knocklist, she just has to like
Speaker 1: look cute in a red dress and poison a guy
Speaker 1: and that's like pretty much all she gets to do.
Speaker 1: And other than that, Yeah, she's either like groped by
Speaker 1: Tom Cruise or screamed at or she gets shot by
Speaker 1: her husband, So still makes sense that would happen. And
Speaker 1: then with Max, like, I don't understand why she's in
Speaker 1: the movie, or why an armstealer would want this list,
Speaker 1: and why it's just none none of that makes any
Speaker 1: sense to me. So yeah, the women who are in
Speaker 1: the movie pretty much don't make a whole lot of sense.
Speaker 1: And overall the movie just does not treat women well.
Speaker 1: The franchise does not treat women especially well. We are
Speaker 1: not surprised by that. But maybe Mission Possible fall we'll
Speaker 1: do a better job. Yeah, I wonder how the Mission
Speaker 1: Impossible franchise is going to tackle the me Too movement
Speaker 1: that that's really the text to her waiting for Also, um,
Speaker 1: as we often come across, this is an extremely white movie,
Speaker 1: you know, very hetero everything like that. Um In fact
Speaker 1: that I had to watch the first scene when they're
Speaker 1: introducing all the members of the team. I had to
Speaker 1: watch that like three times because I was like, okay, wait,
Speaker 1: which woman is Sarah and which one is Claire and
Speaker 1: which one is Hand? Because they're all three white women
Speaker 1: who look very similar. They all have the same hairstyle.
Speaker 1: Who gave them all the same hairstyle? I had no
Speaker 1: idea who was who and until two of them died
Speaker 1: and I was like, Okay, this one's named Claire and
Speaker 1: she's still alive, and Okay, Like I don't know, maybe
Speaker 1: put some diversity name movies and you wouldn't have to
Speaker 1: tell so many fucking white people apart anyway. So yeah,
Speaker 1: let's go down to a half nipple, and the half
Speaker 1: nipple I will give to Max because I like that actor.
Speaker 1: I guess I'm gonna give it one. And and this
Speaker 1: is almost an unfair yardstick to be using, but put
Speaker 1: against comparable series, it does not abuse women to the
Speaker 1: same extent that most franchises in this genre that are
Speaker 1: equally successful. But such a low bar. But but I
Speaker 1: think that that is worth noting as it pertains to
Speaker 1: this movie because it does like it does make a
Speaker 1: difference in the way you you view the movie. That said,
Speaker 1: this movie just like doesn't know how to talk to girls. Uh.
Speaker 1: The groping is absolutely unnecessary. The way that that character
Speaker 1: is spoken for while she's in the room and then
Speaker 1: killed in the last scene is like borderline ridiculous because
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense. Uh. So, not only is it
Speaker 1: not based in reality from a gendered standpoint, it is
Speaker 1: also very bleak. Um. Yeah, I mean, I think of
Speaker 1: the few merits this movie has, it's nice to at
Speaker 1: least see female characters in an action series whose skills
Speaker 1: aren't constantly called into question. I think part of the
Speaker 1: reason that is, though, is because they're not given that
Speaker 1: much to do and or they are all killed at
Speaker 1: the beginning of the movie, which again, yeah, that first
Speaker 1: scene is just like so frustrating because it's like, uh,
Speaker 1: we've got almost a movie here, and then we I think, Alex,
Speaker 1: you're totally on the right track with being like, well,
Speaker 1: there there's gendertive parody at the beginning, so you can
Speaker 1: see a lot of women die and have emotional steaks
Speaker 1: attached to that. So it's it's weird like this there's
Speaker 1: just like a weird Uncanny Valley quality to the way
Speaker 1: this movie deals with gender because I don't think it
Speaker 1: knows how because Tom Cruise is involved. Um So I'll
Speaker 1: give it, you know, I'll give it one nipple for
Speaker 1: the women that are there. None of the characters make sense,
Speaker 1: but the female characters in this movie don't makes sense
Speaker 1: and don't have any existence outside of the male characters
Speaker 1: that also make no sense. Uh. So I'll give one nipple,
Speaker 1: and I'll give it to Alfred Molina because I think
Speaker 1: that he really could have shown up in this movie
Speaker 1: in almost any part, uh in an effective way. I
Speaker 1: would love not to, you know, but if Amelia really
Speaker 1: didn't want to be credited in in this movie, Freddie
Speaker 1: would have taken the credit. He would have taken the credit.
Speaker 1: He would have hacked the main frame. We don't get
Speaker 1: to see thick Hackers a lot, and that would have
Speaker 1: been an interesting move. So there you go. So Alfred
Speaker 1: gets mine. I was much a franchise called thick Hackersick Hackers.
Speaker 1: It's like kind of my type. Yeah, that's I mean,
Speaker 1: you both nailed it. I yeah, I would give it,
Speaker 1: I think one whole nipple because yeah, it doesn't go
Speaker 1: as overboard with brutality toward women as a lot of
Speaker 1: action movies. Like we said, incredibly low bar. But also
Speaker 1: it does a lot of things wrong too, and especially
Speaker 1: like this was the least I've ever liked it watching it,
Speaker 1: because I was thinking, oh, this was maybe much more
Speaker 1: feminist than I remembered, And then it's super isn't all
Speaker 1: of a sudden Like it's just a sudden hard left turn. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think if Tom Cruise could have gone and like
Speaker 1: just been on an island by himself and made whatever
Speaker 1: movie he'd want to make, it would be this movie
Speaker 1: with absolutely no women in it, Like there are only
Speaker 1: women in the film because he knows that's like a
Speaker 1: consideration that the rest of human civilization and the species wants,
Speaker 1: and otherwise it would just be boys hanging out and
Speaker 1: that I can't wait for that franchise. Yeah, we can
Speaker 1: rename maybe of movie franchises to boys hanging out there
Speaker 1: sometimes boys hanging out with guns. Yeah. Well, Alex, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for being here. Was great course. Um,
Speaker 1: where can people follow you online? Do you have anything
Speaker 1: you'd like to plug? Yeah? My Twitter account is at
Speaker 1: Alex Schmidty. It's my name with a Y on the end,
Speaker 1: and then my website is Alex Schmidty dot com that
Speaker 1: has show dates and other info and more awesome. I'm
Speaker 1: a cracked podcast. Please listen, please um. You can follow
Speaker 1: the becktel Cast on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook at
Speaker 1: bechtel Cast. You can subscribe to our Patreon. It's five
Speaker 1: dollars a month and it gets you two bonus episodes
Speaker 1: every single month. Check out our website backtol cast dot com.
Speaker 1: You can buy merchandise from our online store there, and
Speaker 1: you can follow me at Caitlin Darante on Twitter and Instagram.
Speaker 1: You can follow me at Jamie loft Is Help on
Speaker 1: Twitter and Jamie Jamie christ Superstar on Instagram. Because I
Speaker 1: don't play by the rules, that's right, your ghostro Combination
Speaker 1: five Road Ghost, I'm a thig hacker. This episode will
Speaker 1: self destruct in five seconds. All right, Bye bye