1 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: Oh Man, oh Man, oh Man. It's our second episode 2 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: of nineteen and we're off to a great start because 3 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 1: today we get to talk about one of my favorite places, 4 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: one of the places I find most fascinating in the world, 5 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Welcome to Ridiculous History. 6 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: My name is Ben, My name is no and Ben, 7 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: you got me a pretty dope hat from there. It's true. 8 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: It's true. Uh, it's true. But I hope that I 9 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: don't make our super producer Casey Pegram envious. It's just 10 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: I saw the hat and thought of you, and it 11 00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: was like, it's not special if I get everybody the 12 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: same Casey, only where's that one happen? Says Movies. It's true, 13 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: says Casey on the case. Yes, Uh, I did go 14 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: to I think we mentioned this on the show previously. 15 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: In August of eighteen, I spent some time in Korea. 16 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: It was amazing. It was my first time. There's a 17 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: lot of history there, and I was able to visit 18 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: the d m Z. This is not an episode about 19 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,199 Speaker 1: the d m Z. This is more I think about 20 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: the strange things that can happen when a country is 21 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: under tyrannical authoritarian rule and is largely isolated from the 22 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: rest of the world. We've talked about this before in 23 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: various podcasts. There are some universal human desires, you know 24 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: what I mean. People love to be entertained, People love 25 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: to have delicious food, people love to feel influential in 26 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: their circle and stuff. Um. But when it comes to 27 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: certain industries, it's very difficult for every single country to 28 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: make its own domestic version of that industry. Like it's 29 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: really difficult to start a car industry. That's why there's 30 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 1: there's a relatively small number of car companies that make 31 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: cars for the rest of the world. It's also pretty difficult, 32 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: where it was for some time, to start a film industry, 33 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:28,959 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So today's story touches on 34 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: so many things that touches on the film industry. It 35 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: takes place in North Korea, It touches on the US military. 36 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: It touches on the idea of defecting to another country, 37 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: which I think is fascinating. Have you ever thought of defecting? 38 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: Where you one of those people who said sometime over 39 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: the past few years, I'm going to go to Canada. 40 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: Is it called defecting? That would just be I think 41 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: that would just be being a refugee because too defect, 42 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: at least in the way we're talking, you would have 43 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: to be an active military remember. Yeah, and here's a 44 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: question too. Don't you have to kind of have like 45 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,079 Speaker 1: a real good reason to be a refugee or to 46 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: seek asylum or something like that, right, Yeah, that your 47 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 1: life is in danger for maybe your religious beliefs, or 48 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: maybe because of your sexual orientation, stuff like that, that 49 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 1: you're suffering under some kind of totalitarian regime, or if 50 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: you are forced to return to the country, you will 51 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: be murdered. Yeah. And I mean I'm not lowbeit unto 52 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: us to get political and ridiculous history, but starting to 53 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: feel like that that could be the case for our 54 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: country one of these days. So in the minds of 55 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: most people outside of the DPRK or North Korea, it's 56 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: it's an enigmatic country. We for a long time didn't 57 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: know a ton about what happened there. We just knew 58 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: that it was ruled by the Kim family, right, and 59 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: that the Kim family and their inner circle of military 60 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: cadre ran the entire country, literally ran it, and people 61 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: people had to um publicly adhere to a very rigid ideology, right, 62 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: one that elevated members of the Kim family to the 63 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: status of deities or demi gods. It seems like a 64 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: weird place to move to. I mean, anybody who's ever 65 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: moved in their lives, any of us who have maybe 66 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: relocated to a different town or a different state or 67 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 1: a different country, you can realize how disorienting that is. 68 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: So imagine if you are US Army Sergeant Charles Robert Jenkins. 69 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: You don't speak Korean, right, you don't particularly enjoy being 70 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: in the military, but you do love drinking. You like 71 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: knocking back a couple of cold ones with your buds. Yeah, 72 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: buds with buds, Buds with buds. We'll put approximately uh 73 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: in this case. Ten On January four, nineteen six ste five, 74 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: Sergeant Jenkins deserted his infantry company at the edge of 75 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 1: the demilitarized zone, walked alone across a minefield, did not 76 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: blow up, and defected to North Korea. Yeah. Man, The 77 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: part that really got me there among the multiple bonkers 78 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: layers of the story is walked drunkenly across a mine field. Yea, 79 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 1: So after ten beers, walked is probably a charitable description, 80 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: which means he wasn't even meaning careful. He did like 81 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: drunk boxing parkour across the mine field. Maybe it's one 82 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: of those things, sort of like in the in Um 83 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: Inspector Gadget cartoons where he just kind of bumbles his 84 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 1: way and and doesn't get killed by all these various 85 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: pitfalls that could kill him, but by sheer luck he 86 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: happens to dodge every single one of them, and said 87 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: some and some kind of physical comedy pratt fall screwball 88 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: kind of way are you picturing this? Yeah? Oh exactly, 89 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: whoa but the do foot bears and I missed the mine. 90 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: You know, people are still scouting four active minds in 91 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: the DMZ today. You were saying that, right, Yeah, so uh. 92 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: The fact that he made it is a stroke of 93 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 1: brilliant luck. What happens though, when he does finally get 94 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 1: into North Korea? Do they welcome in with open arms? 95 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: Well not exactly. Yeah, they This is just a theme 96 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: that you keep you see pop up because we're gonna 97 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: talk about a handful of defectors. There weren't a lot, 98 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: but there were a few, and they all had they 99 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 1: all shared a similar kind of result. They were forced 100 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: to hold up in some pretty inhospitable housing and spend 101 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 1: copious amounts of time studying the writings or the principles 102 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: of Kim Il sung, who is the patriarch of this 103 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: uh Korean dynasty, this North Korean dynasty. Yeah, the first 104 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 1: Supreme Leader of North Korea from its establishment in until 105 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 1: he died in nineteen nine four, and it's also known 106 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: as the Great Leader. He was declared the eternal President 107 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: of the Republic in so technically he's still holds a 108 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: governmental position after his death. So Jenkins is forced to 109 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: forced to do homework, forced to study Juche philosophy for 110 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: eleven hours every day. Tell me a little bit about 111 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: Juche philosophy, ben Cha. It's interesting because it's it's somewhat controversial. 112 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: It's considered in the DPRK Kimmel songs, his his ideology 113 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: revolutionary theory that was originally thought to be a variety 114 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: of like Marxist uh Leninists thought, while it incorporated these 115 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: different ideas that were uniquely Korean in character, what eventually 116 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: happened is that the North Korean government adopted this concept 117 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: of Juche into a set principles to justify policy decisions 118 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: from the nineteen fifties to today. And it's got an 119 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: emphasis on agricultural independence, lack of international dependencies, you know 120 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: what I mean. Uh. This it's controversial, however, because this 121 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: Korean style socialism, the thing that it is on paper 122 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: rarely makes it to what happens on the ground, you 123 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's better in theory than it 124 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: is in practice. Absolutely so. A lot of the stuff, 125 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: and this might just be an issue of translation, a 126 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: lot of the stuff in English is very very dry 127 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: and very process oriented. It's it's like a dusty philosophical 128 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 1: tone and somewhat redundant. And Jenkins has to read this 129 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: for almost twelve hours every day until he can recite 130 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: the primary principles of juche in Korean. And then he 131 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: wasn't even offered a choice. At this point, he was 132 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: forced to become a North Korean citizen uh and was 133 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: put to work as an English translator and teacher. Um. 134 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: And he also, you're gonna hear about this part a 135 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: little later, along with some of these other folks, was 136 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: an actor. But every move he made, as the police 137 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: would say, every movie you make, every step you take, 138 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 1: Supreme Leader is watching you. I'm paraphrasing here a little bit. 139 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: I thought that was well done the words of Sting. 140 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: He was also forced to marry a Japanese citizen who 141 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: had been kidnapped by North Korea. Her name was Hitomi Soga. 142 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 1: She was kidnapped in nineteen seventy eight to be a 143 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: slave teacher of Japanese language and customs for North Korean spies. 144 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:48,199 Speaker 1: The strange thing about this is that Jenkins, as as 145 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 1: you mentioned, old Jenkins, became an actor, but he became 146 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: an actor in propaganda films. So it turns out that 147 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 1: Jenkins found his strange career and propaganda films because the ruler, 148 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: the son of Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong il, it 149 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: was a huge film buff, like huge, casey, more of 150 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 1: a film buff than any of our mutual friends. Yeah. 151 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: He has apparently like just a huge collection of physical media, 152 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: and I read that it was somewhere in the neighborhood 153 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: of twenty thousand pieces, and most of them are bootleg 154 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: because they did not have a trade relationship with the 155 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: United States, so they would have had to be smuggled 156 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: or some kind of weird bootleg versions exactly. Yeah, And 157 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: it's strange because North Korea actually does have a thriving 158 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: animation in district now and it's pretty solid stuff. But 159 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: back then, they wanted to make their own uniquely North 160 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: Korean feature films. And one of the first things they 161 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: did when they started making feature films is they started 162 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: making war stories, inspirational nationalistic narratives, propaganda, right propaganda. And 163 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: for that they needed convincing enemies. They needed someone to 164 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: be depicted as agents of chaos from the American side. 165 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: And they said, oh, look, we've got this guy. We've 166 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: got uh, got this this Sergeant Jenkins here. Uh. And 167 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: then they also realized that they had a couple of 168 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,559 Speaker 1: other defectors. Right, we have a guy by the name 169 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: of Larry Absher who crossed the d m Z on 170 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: May at nineteen years old. Then we have Private James 171 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: Joseph Dresnock who followed abs Shear's lead, I think it 172 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: was three months later. And who else do we have them? 173 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: Then we also have Joseph White who slipped into North 174 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: Korea in ninety two, and we have Jerry Parrish who 175 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: left for North Korea in nineteen sixty three. These these 176 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,719 Speaker 1: men gave different explanations for their motivation. Right, there were 177 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: some who said they were sold on the communist lifestyle, 178 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: some just wanted to get away from their problems in 179 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: the West, and sub just didn't know what they were doing, 180 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,119 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And it's not a situation 181 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: you could undo easily. Yeah, Jerry Parrish didn't really give 182 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: too many details other than to say that if he 183 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: ever returned home, his father in law would kill him. 184 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: So I guess a reasonable solution to that is to, 185 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: you know, defect from your country. Right. He seemed like 186 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: he had a legitimate fear of his life. We wanted 187 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: to go off the grid. Goes back to the u 188 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: N idea of pleading asylum or refugee style. But this 189 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: is not the same as that, right, I mean, this 190 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: is very much like a I am abandoning my country, 191 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 1: I am leaving my post, which would you know result 192 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: in like court martial or like treason charges. I would, 193 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: I would think, wouldn't you, Yeah, yeah it would. And 194 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: this will bring us back to Charles Jenkins in a 195 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: little bit. It But we've got to tell you, uh, 196 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: these guys when they were cast in these propaganda films, 197 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,559 Speaker 1: who were playing evil Americans. And one thing that was 198 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: amazing about this is over time, after several films, they 199 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 1: became local celebrities for North Korea because it's a very 200 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: insular country. So I mean, they didn't really have that 201 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 1: much access to any to anything other than what was 202 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 1: produced by the government. So they would have been absolutely 203 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 1: from the center, especially considering that they were like the 204 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: only Americans around. Yea, you know, they would have made 205 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: an impression. Yeah. Absolutely. And we also have to say, 206 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: without impinging their character too much, none of these guys 207 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: who defected from the U. S. Army were paragons of 208 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: military virtue, you know what I mean. There was one guy, 209 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: ab Shure that we mentioned who was notorious for being 210 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 1: a pothead. He got caught multiple times getting high pads. 211 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: I mean, you don't do it willie nilly while you're 212 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: on your post, while you're at your job, you know, 213 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: unless your job is like you work for High Times 214 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: or something that's still around or Vice magazine. It's true, 215 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: it is true. So these guys are quickly involved in 216 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: the most surreal sort of life. They're not just movie stars, right, 217 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: They're also icons that can be used to antagonize other 218 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: members of the US military or South Korean military. They 219 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: were abs sheer and Dresnock, and then later Parrish and 220 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: Jenkins were featured in propaganda magazines. They put out a 221 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: magazine called Fortune's Favorites that depicted the American smiling ear 222 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: to ear, marveling at the joyous benefits of life of 223 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: the d p r K. And they had things. They 224 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: had different segments or columns. One was called Letters from 225 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: Abs Shear and Dresnick, titled to the American Soldiers South 226 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: of the d m Z. And we've got a quick 227 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: quotation here, do you, old fellow friends, enjoying warm welcome 228 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: from the North Korean people? I put off the disgusting 229 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: g I uniform and visited yong Yang and other cities 230 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: and villages to tell the truth. The people in North 231 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: Korea are enjoying freedom and happiness inaccessible to the Wook 232 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: and people of the United States. Now, please don't be 233 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,239 Speaker 1: a victim for the Wall Street, but for your withdrawal 234 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: from South Korea. M Now, I mean it sure sounds 235 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: like I think we mentioned this a little bit, But 236 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: all of these gentlemen experienced a very similar degree of indoctrination, 237 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: and they were forced to like they weren't fed properly, 238 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: they were basically just forced to memorize this these core principles, 239 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: um and I don't know enough enough time isolated and alone. 240 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: And I think weren't some of them forced to live 241 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: together and kind of pitted against each other in some 242 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: kind of weird hunger games he kind of scenario. Yeah, Abs, 243 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: Sheer and Parish had to live together. Jane Kins and 244 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: Dresnock also had to share a home while they were 245 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: teaching English and the military academy. And this that excerpt, 246 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: that excerpt I just read, is clearly not written by 247 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: these guys. It's not written by Dressing, thank you. That's 248 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: because he did have an accent. He was, he's still, 249 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: I think, up to until his death, had a trace 250 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: of his rural North Carolinian accent. But what we see 251 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: when we look at the way North Korea treated these 252 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: defectors is um very similar to what we see when 253 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: people are indoctrinated in cults. One of the big things 254 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: that every cult does is to bombard people with information. 255 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: It can be senseless, it can have its own internal logic. 256 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:49,479 Speaker 1: The point is to remove the possibility of asking questions, 257 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: just make people memorize and recite things, and then it's 258 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: very clever about putting them in homes and kind of 259 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: pitting them against each other. Is it makes it much 260 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: more likely for them to ex scept they're forced marriages, 261 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: because when they were forced to marry other kidnapped people, 262 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: often from Japan or something, it was entirely assumed by 263 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 1: the government that these couples would reproduce, and then they 264 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,400 Speaker 1: could use the quote unquote is not a phrase we're using. 265 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 1: They could use the quote unquote ethnically ambiguous children as spies. 266 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: They can blend in you know what I mean, absolutely 267 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: been And I think it's interesting that you talk about 268 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: the kidnapping aspect of this, because this is a really 269 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: interesting gray area to me, kind of where it's like 270 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: they are submitting themselves to this. They made the choice, 271 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: either drunkenly or with some ideological kind of bent to 272 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 1: cross that DMZ into this other country and you know, 273 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: toss off their h the trappings of being an American. 274 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: But they also probably didn't fully know what they were 275 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: signing up for, and then they were basically thrown into 276 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: this indoctrination factory, you know, uh, and forced to live 277 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: in sub human condition shens and turned into something that 278 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: they were not when they made that choice. So you 279 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: know what I mean, it's like sort of like a 280 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: weird it's almost like a Stockholm syndrome kind of thing, 281 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely, and some like 282 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: in the case of James Dresnock, he died happily in 283 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: North Korea in twenty sixteen. He was unrepentant. He professed 284 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:25,360 Speaker 1: support for communism. He was the last living American defector 285 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: in North Korea. He's also got the nickname Comrade Joe 286 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: in DPRK because again he's a celebrity who was featured 287 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 1: in a film called Crossing the Line at South Korea's 288 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: Poussan International Film Festival, and he says he feels at 289 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 1: home in the film. He never regretted going to Korea. 290 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: He seems very sincere about it. He says his life 291 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: is better because he defected, and by North Korean standards, 292 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 1: his his life was pretty good. But you can tell 293 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 1: the lack of medical and dental care took a toll 294 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: on him, like his front teeth or missy is that's 295 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: something that he uh acquired from North Korea, like from 296 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:11,479 Speaker 1: violence fallout. He also had a heavy, heavy drinking and 297 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 1: smoking habits, so let's look at told on him. We'll 298 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: get this ben um. That perspective is is one side 299 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 1: of the coin. Our boy Charles Robert Jenkins, who was 300 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: kind of the sort of spearheaded this whole thing. Um, 301 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: you could say, he actually escaped or was able to 302 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 1: leave in two thousand four quite recently to visit his mother. 303 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: That's right. And he had some slightly less sympathetic words 304 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: or kind words to characterize the experience of these four men. 305 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: If I, if I may quote, we were all young, 306 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: dumb soldiers from poor backgrounds. I had a pretty good 307 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 1: military record, while the other three were pretty much total 308 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,239 Speaker 1: ups as soldiers. The three of them, also, like me, 309 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: walked across the d m Z without really thinking about 310 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: the huge consequences of what they were doing and without 311 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: understanding what North Korea was really like. They were trapped 312 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 1: there in North Korea. All of them quickly grew to 313 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: hate the country and would have left in a second 314 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: if they could have what a sorry, asked little foursome. 315 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: We were so according to Jenkins, any expression to the 316 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: contrary from any of these guys who he was intimately 317 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: familiar with, was either forced or a product of some 318 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: kind of brainwashing. Yeah, and it makes sense. Also, North 319 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: Korea is a very homogeneous, racist environment. The I believe 320 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: it was Jenkins who says that he had only once 321 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 1: been in the same room with the Great Leader Kim 322 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: Il sung, and Kim snorted disapproval at jenkins Korean clothing 323 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: and ordered him and all other Westerners to never again 324 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: sully Korean clothing. So he wore a suit and tie afterwards. 325 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 1: It's great detail on that story. From the Atlantic. There's 326 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: an order goal from called the U. S. Soldier who 327 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: Defected to North Korea by Graham Wood. Highly recommend checking 328 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: that out. But as you said, Noel Jenkins is a 329 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: little bit different because after he spent nearly forty years 330 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: in North Korea, he got out. When he left North 331 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: Korea in two thousand four, he was sixty four years old. 332 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: The army threw him in the stockade for twenty four days, 333 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: he got a dishonorable discharge, and then eventually he and 334 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: his wife moved to Japan, where he sold crackers. Yep, 335 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: full circle. Really, It's it's weird though, because he's still 336 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: sort of a an exotic icon right first in North Korea, 337 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: now in Japan apparently, and did you hear this in 338 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: Japanese culture? Uh? He and had told me Soga's story 339 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: about how they met and how they married and you know, 340 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: became family is considered one of the great modern romances. Yeah, 341 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: I want to see you know that this is such 342 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: a bonker story. Wouldn't this make a fun like kind 343 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: of Screwball Cohen brother z you're going to say kind 344 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: of film? Yeah, because like, these two people find love 345 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: under these really weird esque big brother Orwellian conditions and 346 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: then they stick together and they eventually when their freedom. Apparently, 347 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: when people walk into the shop, they start whispering to 348 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: each other and they stare at Jenkins until he caves 349 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: and says, all right, come on, you can take a 350 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: picture with me. Photo is one of the only words 351 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: he knows in Japanese. Interesting. There's another soldier who was 352 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 1: thought to have possibly defected to North Korea, a guy 353 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,880 Speaker 1: named Roy Chung. His story is pretty controversial. He's born 354 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: in South Korea's chung Ru and he moved to the 355 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 1: US with his parents and seven the three he joined 356 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: the army and when he needed college money, and here's 357 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 1: the strange thing, he was nowhere near Korea when he disappeared. 358 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: In nine nine, he vanished from his unit in Germany, 359 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: and three months later the North Korean State Radio announced 360 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: that he had defected. The Pentagon and State departments say 361 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,239 Speaker 1: that's probably true, but his parents are still convinced he 362 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: was kidnapped. Wow, no one knows what happened to him, 363 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: He just disappeared. Well, Ben, this has been a pretty 364 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: incredible ride. Um. I think we have some pretty neat 365 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: other kind of side stories about some other interesting film 366 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: related um North Korean tales that we could probably wrap 367 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: with if you wanted to. I don't know that there's 368 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: much more to say about these particular defectors, well, nothing 369 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: that's been made public yet, right. The last effector that 370 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: you will hear brought up in these sorts of list 371 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: is a guy named Joseph White, who was considered the 372 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 1: city and possibly final US soldier to defect to the DPRK. 373 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: He came aboard on August nineteen eighty two. He shot 374 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 1: a lock off a gate at the Korean DMZ and 375 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: started walking through the mine fields. His mom didn't believe 376 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 1: it first off. She said he loved this country, he 377 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: loved that uniform and everything about it. He was nothing 378 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: but a Gung Ho army and Gung Ho Reagan guy. 379 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 1: But back at his barracks, investigators found all these pro 380 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: North Korean leaflets and propaganda. His buddies were dumbfounded, and 381 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: no one heard of him until nineteen eighties six, when 382 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: White's parents got a letter from someone in North Korea 383 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 1: who said that they were friends with the soldier and 384 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 1: that he had drowned in a river while enjoying leisure 385 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: time outing. So don't know what happened to him. We 386 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: do know that North Korea produced a number of propaganda films, 387 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: not just unsung heroes, not just that nineteen seventy eight banger. 388 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: We have a little bit of a list. What what 389 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: really stuck out to you on this on this is 390 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 1: the propaganda films? Well maybe maybe this isn't necessarily a 391 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: propaganda film, And I think this is a fantastic story. 392 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: Um that apparently Kim Jong eel Um had some directors, 393 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: very popular North Korean film directors who escaped to Hong Kong, 394 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: um kidnapped and brought back to North Korea and forced 395 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 1: to make a rip off of Godzilla pool Gus sary Um, 396 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 1: And the plot of this is incomprehensible to me. There 397 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: must be some cultural thing that I'm missing here, But 398 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 1: apparently the story it's the story of a of a 399 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 1: small doll made of rice that becomes a mythical creature 400 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: um and helps the peasants, the proletariat overthrow a monarchy 401 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: um that is corrupting their land. So that's interesting that 402 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: they would cast it from the perspective of the proletariat, 403 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: right like the peasants doing an uprising kind of right 404 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: like that? How does that? How does that serve the regime? 405 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: You know, that's a that's a complex question. It's fair, 406 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: that's a complex question. It's a matter of perspective and zeitgeist, 407 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: isn't it. But you're right. Kim Jong Il was so 408 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: interested in film that he you know, do we mention 409 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: his book on the Art of the Cinema, So he 410 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 1: describes his tactics of using movies as educational tools to 411 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: spread his ideals to the nation, sort of the way 412 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: Saddam Hussein wrote those uh historical fiction romance novels, which 413 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: is also really weird. And I believe if you if 414 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: you want to get a little bit deeper dive into that, 415 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: you can check out our pal Robert Evans show Behind 416 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: the Bastards, where he does an episodes specifically on those 417 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: romance novels of Saddam Hussein. I did. Yeah, that's true, 418 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 1: and we will probably have Robert on the show again 419 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 1: sometime soon. He would love that, so Kim Jong ills 420 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 1: would be film industry was entirely fueled by the kidnapping 421 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 1: of directors, actors, other artists for UM South Korea from 422 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: Japan in these various places. It seems like he didn't 423 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: understand that it was wrong to kidnap people. He just 424 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 1: thought that was the way you hired people. Yeah, exactly. 425 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: So there's there's also souls protests, there's eternal comrades, which 426 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: is uh, it's based on this UM. This situation in 427 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: a terrorist group tried to kill Kim Il Sung. A 428 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: Soviet officer named Yakov Nivechenko saw the grenade and sacrificed 429 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: himself by throwing his body on top of it, and 430 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:40,640 Speaker 1: it saved Kim Jong Il's life. Uh. And then this guy, 431 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: the Russian Nevchenko, had a large book strapped to the 432 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: front of his chest as a kind of body armor. 433 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: It saved his life too, and then that made him 434 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: I think the first Russian to receive the title of 435 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 1: North Korean national hero and eternal comrades re enacts the 436 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: events of that day. Genius. Is it well yeah, in 437 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: terms of it being just wild, yeah, And it's weird 438 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: because you can't see You can see clips of these 439 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 1: on YouTube and if you want to watch them, but 440 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: it's very difficult to find the full copy of these 441 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: in you know, entirely English forms, or at least I 442 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 1: looked around a little. I was having a tough time. 443 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: So if you find a clip of of a good 444 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 1: North Korean propaganda film, send it our way, post it 445 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 1: on ridiculous historians, and I have a surprise for you know, 446 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: give it to me. Ben. So we know that the 447 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: Kim dynasty is able to exert tremendous influence on the country, 448 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 1: and that means that, let's say, if Kim Jong il 449 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: really wants a movie industry, then he can make the 450 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: entire country help support him in this endeavor. Right, of course, 451 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: you can do whatever he wants. Uh, there's a new 452 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: leader in town, Kim Jong un, and Kim Jong un 453 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: has an obsession of his own. In fact, just recently, 454 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: North Korea officially urged all of its citizens to make 455 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: the country a basketball powerhouse. North Korean state media has 456 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: declared basketball to be a critical part of the state's 457 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: ideology and called on all workers and soldiers to turn 458 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: the nation into a global leader in the sport of basketball. Interesting, 459 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: it's no coincidence, perhaps that Kim Jong un is himself 460 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: a huge fan of basketball? Uh? Situation so surreal that 461 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: it led to Dennis Rodman essentially functioning as a diplomat. 462 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: Do you remember that when it popped up in the 463 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: very much? So? I believe. Isn't there a documentary or 464 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: at least a short about Dennis Rodman's behavior and the 465 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: way he went to Korea? I think there is. Yes, 466 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: that's correct so far. I think as of December eighteen, 467 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: he's paid five visits to the capital of North Korea 468 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: and even serenaded Kim Jong un with a rendition of 469 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: Happy Birthday during a basketball game. So am I saying 470 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: that if you were good at basketball, watch out because 471 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: you might be kidnapped by North Korea? No, but you're 472 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: not saying I'm not not saying. It's the point. So 473 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: so let's let us know, like North Korea is a 474 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: is a fascinating country. Luckily, it's much less isolated now 475 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: due to the rise of technology, you know, the the 476 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,479 Speaker 1: increasing access people have to the internet through mobile phones 477 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: and things like that. They're gross and ongoing human rights 478 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: abuses in the country and in many ways it is 479 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: a black hole, and much of what we know about 480 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: North Korea comes from people who have left the country, 481 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: who have defected for one reason or another. Today's episode 482 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: examined the uh the very strange story of the people 483 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: who went in the other direction. Would you ever do it? 484 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: Casey Nol? Would you ever? Would you ever defect to 485 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: a distant, maybe not US friendly country if it meant 486 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: you could live as a king? Why not? You know? Yolo? Alright, well, 487 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: tell us which country we should defect to. Thank you 488 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. We would like to hear 489 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: your North Korea facts, the strange trivia that you have 490 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: found about it. You can share that with us and 491 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: your fellow listeners on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. We also recommend 492 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: ridiculous historians our community page, which is just chock full 493 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: of ridiculous scrumpches. His history chocolate block. It's yes, it's 494 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: it's history nuggets, is what I like to call it. 495 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: There we go, There we go. It's chock full of 496 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: good old history nuggets. Big thanks to our superproducer, Casey Pegram, 497 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: big thanks to Alex Williams, who composed our theme, and 498 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: of course thanks to Gabe, our research associate, and you 499 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: know what, as we always say, thanks thanks to you know, Ben, 500 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: I appreciate that from the bottom of my heart. And 501 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: I whip that right across this net that it does, 502 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 1: non existing net, This imaginary netts in the middle of 503 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: our podcasting table, right back at you. But and if 504 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: we didn't spend so much money on that quister grandfather clock, 505 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: we could have an actual net. We could be playing 506 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: ping pong while we're doing the show. That's a lot 507 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: of multitasking. That's a lot of mul t. I know, 508 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: I have to learn how to work this puppet before tonight, 509 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: so I gotta get out of here. You were really 510 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: working that puppet a little while ago, whenn't you been. 511 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: We'll post it, we'll post it somewhere on social But 512 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: we do actually have a puppet in the studio with 513 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: us to Yeah, and it's weird when you see a 514 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: puppet that does not benefiting from the hand of the puppeteer. 515 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: It's just kind of slumped over in a chair. It's 516 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: a little bit unnerving. It's a little bit unnerving. But 517 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: maybe we'll even make a propaganda video for ridiculous history 518 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: this puppet. Maybe we can kidnap other podcasters to get 519 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: them to help us out. This is getting crazy. We 520 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: should probably just call it a day. I agree, See 521 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: you next time, folks. M