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Speaker 1: Hey, discos, need a little more Disgraceland in your life,

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Speaker 1: just to touch to get you through. Yeah, me too.

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Speaker 1: This is the podcast that comes after the podcast. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to Disgraceland, the after Party. Welcome to the Disgraceland bonus episode,

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Speaker 1: a little thing we like to call the after party.

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Speaker 1: This is the show after the show, the party after

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Speaker 1: the party, the bridge to get you from one full

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Speaker 1: episode of Disgraceland to the other, the backyard to dig

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Speaker 1: into the dirt. On this episode, we are talking about

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Speaker 1: the Daytona five hundred ac DC, the night Stalker, Richard Ramirez,

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Speaker 1: and we are talking with Tiller Russell, acclaimed filmmaker and

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Speaker 1: director of the hit Netflix series The night Stalker. We're

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Speaker 1: talking to Tiller about Richard Ramirez and AC and EC.

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Speaker 1: So stay tuned for that interview. And of course you've

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Speaker 1: got your calls, your texts, your dms, me reading the

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Speaker 1: phone book, and a whole lot of rosie. All right,

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Speaker 1: disc goes, let's get into it, all right, what is shaking?

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Speaker 1: I'm recording this way late on Tuesday morning. I just

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Speaker 1: got home, flew back from flew back late from Daytona, Florida.

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Speaker 1: My buddy Cam and I were at the Daytona five hundred,

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Speaker 1: my first five hundred. We were guests of seven time

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Speaker 1: champion in All Round class act Jimmy Johnson, the goat, Nascar,

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Speaker 1: the sport. It's got a tox to me. I had

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Speaker 1: an incredible time. I got to meet and spend time

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Speaker 1: with a couple of different drivers, hang out with some

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Speaker 1: folks from NASCAR as well as with the fans. What

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Speaker 1: an incredible bunch of people, good hearted, nice and amazing community.

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Speaker 1: Everybody was so nice and welcoming and just an awesome event.

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Speaker 1: My head is still spinning, all right, What else is

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Speaker 1: going on? Season eleven of Disgraceland is among us. More

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Speaker 1: on that in a bit. Today's after party here is

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Speaker 1: going to be a little different. As I mentioned at

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Speaker 1: the top of the show, this episode features an interview

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Speaker 1: with the claimed filmmaker Tiller Russell. Among many great films,

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Speaker 1: Tiller is the director of the smash Netflix hit night

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Speaker 1: Stalker from a couple of years ago, and I wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk to Tiller on this bonus episode because obviously,

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Speaker 1: the latest episode of Disgraceland on ACDC is largely about

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Speaker 1: the night Stalker Richard Ramirez. But before we get to Tiller.

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Speaker 1: I want to get into some of your calls, your

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Speaker 1: texts and your dms. As you know, you can call

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Speaker 1: me six one seven nine zero six six six three

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Speaker 1: eight like Monica from Dallas here.

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Speaker 2: Hey Jake, this is Monica from Dallas. What's upon a time?

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Speaker 2: Many many many moons ago? I knew one of the

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Speaker 2: roadies for John Popper and Blues Traveler, and he told

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Speaker 2: me lots of crazy stories. So I was curious that

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Speaker 2: if you would do an episode on, you know, Blue

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Speaker 2: Traveler and maybe go into some of those stories that

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Speaker 2: that guy was just completely bullshitting me or a liar

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Speaker 2: or whatever, or if Blue Traveler and John Popper and

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Speaker 2: all those guy cats for something interesting to maybe do

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Speaker 2: an episode on. Really love the show. I love what

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Speaker 2: you're doing and keep at it. Thanks so much.

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Speaker 1: Bye, Thanks for the call, Monica. I gotta admit I

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Speaker 1: don't know anything about Blues Traveler, but I'm down to

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Speaker 1: check it out and will now based on your recommendation,

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Speaker 1: So thank you. All Right, let's check out what Leon

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Speaker 1: from the seven to one six has to say.

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Speaker 2: Great Leon from Buffalo, New York, Hey, Man, love your podcast.

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Speaker 3: Can't wait for.

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Speaker 1: The ACDC episode.

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Speaker 3: Man, I've been waiting and waiting and waiting for it.

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Speaker 3: I'm over the road truck driver. I go from Buffalo

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Speaker 3: to Boston, mass twice a week, and all you do

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Speaker 3: is listen to your two podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Love it Man, keep it growing Later, Leon, this is

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Speaker 1: your lucky week man. The ACDC episode was just released,

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Speaker 1: and of course we are discussing it in this bonus

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Speaker 1: episode with Tiller Russell guys six one seven nine zero

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Speaker 1: six six six three eight. To have your dreams come true,

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Speaker 1: like Leon, here, call me text me six one seven

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Speaker 1: nine zero six six six three eight. All right, let's

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Speaker 1: do some texts from the five to one zero. Hey, Jake,

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Speaker 1: love the pod. Been listening since season one, episode one.

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Speaker 1: Even still when one of your episodes drops, it goes

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Speaker 1: straight to the top of the queue. Anyway, here's my question.

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Speaker 1: What's better NASCAR, IndyCar or F one? Cheers Brother Craig

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Speaker 1: from sam Mateo, who has become obsessed with F one

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Speaker 1: in recent years. That's what he says, Sir Craig Man,

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Speaker 1: I gotta go Nascar. I've been to uh and I've

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Speaker 1: been to one F one race. I've been to I've

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Speaker 1: been to that I just mentioned went to the Daytona

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Speaker 1: five hundred. The experiences are totally different. It's a completely

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Speaker 1: different style of racing. And there's something about the aggression

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Speaker 1: of NASCAR and sort of there's this weird connection to

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Speaker 1: rock and roll, an Americana and this sort of badass, rebel,

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Speaker 1: transgressive culture that I'm clearly fascinated with. So I got

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Speaker 1: to go Nascar. I am into f one, I'll always

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Speaker 1: be into both. I think Indie IndyCar I've never messed

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Speaker 1: with at all, but I'm down to check that out.

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Speaker 1: And I think just all racing, all driving drivers just

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Speaker 1: fascinate me. They put their their lives on the line

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Speaker 1: in this way that I said is to me, it's

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Speaker 1: reminiscent to what rock stars do. And I haven't quite

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Speaker 1: figured out how to articulate that, but I will. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for the text, Craig, appreciate it. Okay. From the two

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Speaker 1: to one three, Ah, Chelsea, Chelsea Stardust, the director Chelsea

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Speaker 1: start us look her up, Hey, Jake, Chelsea started us here.

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Speaker 1: I hope you're having a great Friday, loving the new season.

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Speaker 1: Huge congrats. I had a bunch of fun things I

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Speaker 1: wanted to share with you, so I ended up sending

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Speaker 1: an email sparing you a lot long winded voicemail some

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Speaker 1: things I think of all people with DIG who work

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Speaker 1: for you would appreciate, enjoy, and keep up the incredible work.

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Speaker 1: Have a great weekend. Thank you, Chelsea. I will check

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Speaker 1: out that email report back on the next after party.

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Speaker 1: Let's see what we get here for some other texts.

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Speaker 1: All right from the seven O Four's up, Jake, it's

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Speaker 1: Christina in North Carolina. So I am super excited on

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Speaker 1: Otis Redding. That needs to be aired asap. Well, Christina,

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Speaker 1: Otis Redding is coming quick. I think it's we got

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Speaker 1: Mac Miller next, and then I think it's Otis after that.

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Speaker 1: I could be wrong, though, but I think that's what

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Speaker 1: we're doing. And when she goes on to say I

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Speaker 1: was hoping to hear some about Shlino Sanchez and Valentine Elizalde,

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Speaker 1: I'm saying that wrong. I know I'm pronouncing that wrong.

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Speaker 1: I apologize. I know this is not your wheelhouse, but

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Speaker 1: these stories are great. Chelino played Coachella in nineteen ninety

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Speaker 1: two and there was total mayhem. He was the original

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Speaker 1: Colurido singer and was killed by the Narcos. Whoa stand

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Speaker 1: away from this one. Thanks thanks for the uh tip there, Christina,

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Speaker 1: But I don't mess with the narcos. Keep keep listening

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Speaker 1: and you're gonna get that otis writing soon. Let's go on.

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Speaker 1: We'll do another text here. What do we got? All right?

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Speaker 1: From the eight one seven? Hey Jake, Max from Texas here,

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Speaker 1: real happy you're re releasing all the old episodes. They

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Speaker 1: get me through the day at work restoring classic cars,

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Speaker 1: and keep up the excellent work. And my suggestion is

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Speaker 1: an episode or two on Elvis. Hear me out. I

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Speaker 1: know you said back in season one or two that

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Speaker 1: when the Elvis episodes come out, then you're hanging it up.

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Speaker 1: But with the movie coming out, Lisa's unfortunate passing, and

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Speaker 1: everything going on with the family, I don't think there's

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Speaker 1: a better time than now. Thanks man, TCB. Well, Max,

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Speaker 1: you do have a point. I'm not gonna lie. I

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Speaker 1: thought about it, man, but I'm saving the Elvis stuff

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Speaker 1: until I leave the building. It's gonna be a while.

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Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a season, hopefully in the

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Speaker 1: far off, far distant future. All Right, So those are

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Speaker 1: some texts. Let me get to some some social media

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Speaker 1: direct messages and I'll respond to those. Here we go,

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Speaker 1: all right. Jason rush Forth on Instagram writes, Yo, Jake,

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Speaker 1: how is Daytona? You have to watch uppedy awesome documentary

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Speaker 1: about Willie t Ribbs, one of the first and for

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Speaker 1: sure the most successful black racing drivers of all time,

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Speaker 1: and all the bullshit he endured and overcame, He's still

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Speaker 1: around and is a total character and a complete badass

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Speaker 1: of a driver, entertaining af J from the two five

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Speaker 1: three Jay hit me on Instagram. Thanks Jason or Jay

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Speaker 1: as as you call yourself. This sounds amazing. I'm definitely

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Speaker 1: gonna check this out. I'm just consuming all types of

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Speaker 1: NASCAR stuff right now, so thanks for the tip. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate it. I will report back after I watch that.

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Speaker 1: Let's see who else we get here. We'll do another one.

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Speaker 1: This is Aaron, she writes. She sends this photo of

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Speaker 1: this adorable dog. I don't know what this dog is.

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Speaker 1: I wish you guys could see it. It looks like

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Speaker 1: some type of terrier mix. It's white with this super

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Speaker 1: cute black spot over its. You know what it looks like.

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Speaker 1: It looks like the dog from our gang, Spanky and Alfalfa. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: Let's see what she says here. Aaron says, this little

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Speaker 1: man is our pup named Lemmy. Yes for the late

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Speaker 1: and great. Let me kill my sister. Sorry, let me

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Speaker 1: kill myster. Even as an ace of spades caller he does.

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Speaker 1: This dog is awesome. Do you have any Lemmy episodes

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Speaker 1: that I may have missed? Also, i'd love an Arrowsmith episode.

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Speaker 1: My husband and I saw them in concert this past

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Speaker 1: summer and they still rock and I think it may

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Speaker 1: have been the best I've seen or tied with Elton

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Speaker 1: John Billy Joel dueling pianos at Gillette years ago. Hey,

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Speaker 1: just so you know, Aaron, thanks for writing, and we do.

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Speaker 1: We got an Arrowsmith episode. It's coming out. It's done,

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Speaker 1: I recorded it. It's coming out next season, so this

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Speaker 1: year a couple months. Seasons come by quicker now because

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Speaker 1: we're going week to week, so that will be here

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Speaker 1: in a matter of a few months, our Arrowsmith episode.

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Speaker 1: All right, let me see here. I got the h

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Speaker 1: I got an email I want to want to read here.

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Speaker 1: This is this is from if I'm saying this right,

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Speaker 1: Petiri P P E T T E ri I P

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Speaker 1: subject fifty cent melotron Hi Jake, I don't know how

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Speaker 1: many Finish listeners you have, I'm one at least, and

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Speaker 1: how many of them mentioned this? But your melotron clip

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Speaker 1: on top of the recent fifty cent episode sounds eerily

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Speaker 1: similar to an old Finnish schlager, and it's pronounced. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how it's pronounced, but the old Finnish schlager.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what a schlager is. A song Coultaan

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Speaker 1: Norris roughly translates to golden youth. I guess all music

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Speaker 1: has been written by now and we go to the

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Speaker 1: second round. Great, great podcast man. I've been listening since

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Speaker 1: the beginning. Thanks for your amazing work. Regards Petiri. I

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Speaker 1: had no idea about the similarities between the melotron loop

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Speaker 1: and that schlager, the finished schlager. I also have no

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Speaker 1: idea where a schlager is. It sounds dirty, but I

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Speaker 1: want to find out. Anyways, Thanks for listening, man, Thanks

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Speaker 1: for listening in Finland. I'm stoked, just you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: right to us, keep writing to us from Finland.

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Speaker 4: All right, back in a flash.

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Speaker 1: Okay, guys, here's my conversation with Tilla Russell again, the

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Speaker 1: great filmmaker, creator of Netflix's Night Stalker on Richard Ramirez, who,

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Speaker 1: like I said, we feature heavily in our current ACDC

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Speaker 1: episode Here you Go. Hope you dig it? Tiller, how

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Speaker 1: are you?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing great, brother. How you doing?

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Speaker 1: I'm doing good? Okay, So everyone knows Tiller Russell. You're

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Speaker 1: an incredible filmmaker, creator of the upcoming Netflix documentary series

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Speaker 1: Waco American Apocalypse, as well as a director of Operation

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Speaker 1: Odessa and my favorite The Seven to Five. You also

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Speaker 1: directed the hit Netflix series Nightstalker, which is why we're

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Speaker 1: talking today. Tiller, tell me what brought you to Richard Ramirez?

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Speaker 1: Number one? Number two? How long did you live in

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Speaker 1: his world while you were making night Stalker? And how

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Speaker 1: did you deal with all of that darkness?

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Speaker 3: Great set of questions. So, Richard Ramirez in some sense

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Speaker 3: walked into my life when I was writing for a

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Speaker 3: TV show and a good buddy of mine who ended

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Speaker 3: up being my partner on it, Tim Walsh, came in

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Speaker 3: and he's like, hey, man, I know the cops that

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Speaker 3: worked the night Stalker case, and I think there's this

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Speaker 3: unbelievable story to be told in series to be made

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Speaker 3: about it. Do you want to go meet these guys

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Speaker 3: and I'll give you a sort of odd confession, which

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Speaker 3: is I actually normally hate serial killer shit and like

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Speaker 3: run from it, like the plague. And so I was

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Speaker 3: a little bit reluctant when he had said that, but

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Speaker 3: he's like, these dudes are pretty fascinating, and so I

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Speaker 3: went and and I try to never miss a meeting

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Speaker 3: that's at an interesting spot. So, you know, we roll

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Speaker 3: to this like cop bar and I go and sit

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Speaker 3: down with these guys, and literally, as they start to

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Speaker 3: tell the story of what it was like that hot,

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Speaker 3: bloody summer kind of investigating this series of murders that

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Speaker 3: began to strike Los Angeles. I'm looking at him and

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Speaker 3: they're sitting in these like cracked red vinyl booths. It

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Speaker 3: almost looked like it was out of time. And as

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Speaker 3: they started to talk, I literally could envision what the

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Speaker 3: series might be in my mind. And so from there

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Speaker 3: once it kind of like grabbed hold of me and

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Speaker 3: suck it's you know, sunk its hooks into my consciousness.

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Speaker 3: I just I got dragged along for the ride.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that's amazing. That's amazing. You can kind of see it.

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Speaker 1: You're you know, you're up close with these guys and

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Speaker 1: these cops are the characters in the in the series. Now,

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Speaker 1: these were the two guys, right, Like one was sort

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Speaker 1: of the the newbie and the other was sort of

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Speaker 1: the seasoned veteran who was at the not the Green

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Speaker 1: River killer, the Gary Ridge.

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Speaker 3: It was a hillside strangler, hillside strangler. Yeah, And it

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Speaker 3: was this like weird, unlikely pairing of these cops, Frank Sealerno,

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Speaker 3: who was this old school, kind of iconic legend of

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Speaker 3: the Sheriff's Department Homicide Division and being paired with this,

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Speaker 3: you know, young rookie kind of up and comer Gil Correo,

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Speaker 3: and that dynamic between the two of them was what

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Speaker 3: fascinated me. And then the unexpected vulnerability, particularly of the

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Speaker 3: younger guy. But can I throw it back to you, Jake,

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Speaker 3: which is one of the things that I so love

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Speaker 3: about what you do and that I love about this

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Speaker 3: new episode is your ability to drop into these different perspectives,

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Speaker 3: like as you were saying, I was anchored in the

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Speaker 3: cops perspective by and large, or the victim's perspective, and

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Speaker 3: what I think so like beautiful and elegant and frankly,

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Speaker 3: I'm so terribly jealous of to be real, is your

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Speaker 3: ability to drop into all these voices and you know,

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Speaker 3: whether it's Bond Scot's you know, head and World or whatever,

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Speaker 3: or whether it's dropping into Richard Ramirez. How the hell

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Speaker 3: do you do that? Like, what's the what's the what's

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Speaker 3: the secret? Sauce? Back at you? You know, back at you.

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Speaker 1: Well, first of all, thank you. Any compliment from you

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Speaker 1: is is just just I'm blown away. So I want

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Speaker 1: nothing but admiration for the work you do, so that

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Speaker 1: means a lot. But to answer your question, I just

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Speaker 1: it's not it's not something that style of writing is

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Speaker 1: not something I actually planned to do. I think it's

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Speaker 1: just I think it's a combination of two things. I

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Speaker 1: think one it's you know you do you do all

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Speaker 1: this research and you get it. You you immerse yourself in it,

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Speaker 1: and you sort of you put yourself in the heads

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Speaker 1: of these people, and I try I have this rule

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Speaker 1: where I never try to express anything from the point

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Speaker 1: of view of any of these subjects, whether they're the

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Speaker 1: antagonist or the protagonist, that that does not align with

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Speaker 1: the truth of the story. And the second part of

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Speaker 1: that is it's a much simpler answer. It's just James

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Speaker 1: Elroy I think I just reads James Elroy growing up

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Speaker 1: that I just developed this sort of accidental style and

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Speaker 1: it's not a complete Elroy rip, but it's certainly it's certainly.

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Speaker 3: It's a strong it's a strong influence, and I'm glad

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Speaker 3: that you reference that because I like hear it and

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Speaker 3: feel it, and I'm an Elroy nut too, you know,

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Speaker 3: like when we were, when we're When you're making these

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Speaker 3: things that kind of like exist in a particular genre,

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Speaker 3: you're always acutely aware of, you know, your predecessors in

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Speaker 3: some way or another and wanting to, you know, aspiring

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Speaker 3: to hopefully fit into some kind of canon. And you know,

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Speaker 3: in the case of Knightstalker, it's like Dashell Hammett and

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Speaker 3: Raymond Chandler and you know, all the way through through

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Speaker 3: el Roy and beyond. But there's this, there's this kind

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Speaker 3: of canon of influences. I think that looms over anything.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not at all surprised to hear that Elroy

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Speaker 3: looms so large for you because you have that same

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Speaker 3: kind of ratitat tat rhythm and that ability to then

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Speaker 3: like toggle really sharply between perspectives, and it's one of

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Speaker 3: the things you know I've told you this before, but

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Speaker 3: I'm kind of so jealous of what you do oftentimes,

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Speaker 3: you know, in in documentaries, what's so fascinating about it is,

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Speaker 3: it's this passport to other people's lives, right, these these

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Speaker 3: these like most vivid, sometimes horrifying, sometimes magnificent experiences of

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Speaker 3: their lives. And like I think of my job as

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Speaker 3: a sculptor trying to kind of capture what it is,

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Speaker 3: what that experience was that for them in human terms,

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Speaker 3: in an emotional and visceral sense. But what I love

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Speaker 3: about the freedom of what you do, which also you

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Speaker 3: see in you know, I think the work that you're

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Speaker 3: doing and in in you know, your colleagues and contemporaries,

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Speaker 3: in podcasting, and the work that's being done in comic

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Speaker 3: books and graphic novels is the most cutting edge an

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Speaker 3: original because the boundaries are still porous in terms of

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Speaker 3: and the rules are not codified. And every time I

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Speaker 3: you know, clock in which I do, you know frequently

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Speaker 3: with your work, I'm so I guess fascinated by an

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Speaker 3: envious of the methodology and that ability to do it,

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Speaker 3: and you do it so beautifully, and I love the

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Speaker 3: way you did it in the in this a CDC episode.

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Speaker 1: Well, thank you man. It's it's a strange, new new world.

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Speaker 1: It's a new medium and there there aren't any real rules,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't I didn't have any guardrails when I started.

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Speaker 1: You know, I also didn't know what the hell I

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Speaker 1: was doing, and I had to kind of find my

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Speaker 1: own way through it to do it and take all

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Speaker 1: those influences that I had and sort of, you know,

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Speaker 1: create this this thing. So now when I when I

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Speaker 1: come across something like like I saw your series and

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh man, this is hot. I saw

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Speaker 1: that ac DC hat like, this is ac DC story

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Speaker 1: I want to tell because I always thought that Richard

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Speaker 1: Ramirez and Bond Scott bared a similar resemblance and that

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Speaker 1: Ramirez was sort of, I mean, everyone knows who knows

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Speaker 1: this the serial killer stuff, that he was sort of

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Speaker 1: like the rock star serial killer. He had all those

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Speaker 1: groupies in court YEP. At one point he shows up

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Speaker 1: and he's wearing sunglasses in a suit and he's really

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Speaker 1: kind of putting it on. And then I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to tell just the the v H

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Speaker 1: one behind the music, a CDC story that's been told before,

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Speaker 1: so what kind of what kind of correlation can I

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Speaker 1: make between bon Scott and Richard Ramirez? And it turns out,

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Speaker 1: you know, we all laugh at I actually got a

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Speaker 1: lot of shit, not a lot. I got a little

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Speaker 1: bit of shit from this today from someone on on

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Speaker 1: social media. Not that I read my mentions, slash. I

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Speaker 1: do read my mentions, but don't tell anyone who said that,

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Speaker 1: you know, just scoffing at the fact that that the

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Speaker 1: a c DC inspired a serial killer. But the truth

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Speaker 1: of the matter is they did inspire a serial killer.

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Speaker 3: Well well, and what's so? Yeah, I think what's kind

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Speaker 3: of increasingly weird about it? And you see it, you know,

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Speaker 3: kind of acutely in all the social media today in

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Speaker 3: which we're present. But really you have all of these

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Speaker 3: swirling cultural influences that are almost like waves crashing together

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Speaker 3: and are impacting and influencing one another. I mean, one

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Speaker 3: of the weird things about Ramirez was he, you know,

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Speaker 3: when he finally sat down, there's there's all these stories,

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Speaker 3: you know that that didn't end up making it into

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Speaker 3: the series. But when he finally sat down with those

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Speaker 3: cops who you know, who are you investigating him through

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Speaker 3: that summer, he tells them that he well, they actually

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Speaker 3: sit down and watch the mini series that was made

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Speaker 3: of them at the time, and they're all literally watching

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Speaker 3: The night Stalker made for TV movie together. But he

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Speaker 3: tells them in the course of the kind of aftermath

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Speaker 3: of this before the trial, that he was a student

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Speaker 3: of all the other serial kill that had gone before him,

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Speaker 3: and not only that, but that he had been very

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Speaker 3: closely watching Frank Sealerno as the guy who had captured

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Speaker 3: the Hillside strangler. And so I guess the point that

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Speaker 3: I'm making is there is this cultural continuum where it's

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Speaker 3: you know, rock stars are spilling into the lives of

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Speaker 3: serial killers. Serial killers are spinning and is spilling into

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Speaker 3: the lives of rock stars. And I think what I

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Speaker 3: love about Disgraceland is you're mapping the weird boundaries and

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Speaker 3: crossovers of that. And it's why one of these days

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Speaker 3: you and I have to, you know, figure out how

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Speaker 3: we're going to crack the adaptation of it, because I

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Speaker 3: think it's so there is this gap in the media landscape,

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Speaker 3: Like whatever the shortcomings of VH one behind the Music were,

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Speaker 3: that show ran forever and it was kind of endlessly

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Speaker 3: fascinating because you know, you own the records, you know,

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Speaker 3: you have the posters in your room or whatever. But

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Speaker 3: there's lore and there's this mythology and that's all behind it.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's what you do so well. It's

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Speaker 3: kind of telling both the mythology but also very meticulously

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Speaker 3: rooted in the journalism and the facts behind it. And

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Speaker 3: it's this very fascinating blend of those two that I

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Speaker 3: that I think you is so fascinating what you do,

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Speaker 3: you know, not just in Disgraceland and all your work,

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Speaker 3: but so beautifully in Disgraceland.

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Speaker 1: Thanks man, And I mean shit, I love behind the music.

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Speaker 1: I was a junkie for growing up. But you know,

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Speaker 1: that's a style that's been done, and you know, there's honestly,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of people doing that in this medium

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Speaker 1: to some degree, and it's just not what interests me.

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Speaker 1: So this sort of wacko thing that I redd is

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Speaker 1: what interests me, and thank god it works. You know,

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Speaker 1: you talk about influences, and we've talked about a CDC

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Speaker 1: influencing Richard Ramirez. We've never really we've talked a lot

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Speaker 1: sort of offline, you know, we've I've interviewed you before

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Speaker 1: and but we've talked on the phone and stuff about

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Speaker 1: you know, what books were reading, what movies were watching.

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Speaker 1: We've never really talked about what what music you you

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Speaker 1: came up with, what were what were you listening to

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Speaker 1: when you in your formative years, when you were when

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Speaker 1: you're falling in love with with filmmaking.

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Speaker 3: That's really interesting, you know, I was a kid in

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Speaker 3: Dallas with no connections, like it seemed like a dream

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Speaker 3: that I would ever actually one day be able to

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Speaker 3: make something. So I was listening, you know, in the

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Speaker 3: like late eighties, I'm listening to the as like a

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Speaker 3: skater kid, the kind of early like skater punk rock stuff.

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Speaker 3: And then in the nineties, which is you know, I

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Speaker 3: think a lot of us default to that period in

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Speaker 3: time when you're coming of age, you know, going from

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Speaker 3: being a kid to being a young man or a

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Speaker 3: young woman, a young woman. And so for me, the

425
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 3: soundtrack of the nineties and all like all corners of it,

426
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 3: I think is something that I gravitate to a lot.

427
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 3: Although my taste in music is super weird and eclectic,

428
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 3: and what I do is I'm constantly mining for I think,

429
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 3: new influences. So I read the Chuck Klosterman book The Nineties,

430
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 3: which I don't know if you read that, if you haven't, Yeah,

431
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 3: it's it's and it's it's amazing because what he does

432
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 3: in that book is he talks about and it's like

433
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 3: the soundtrack of you know, our lives, those of us

434
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 3: that were kind of you know, alive in young people then,

435
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 3: whether it's the you know, story of Nirvana or whatever else,

436
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 3: but like along with the soundtrack of you know, the

437
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 3: music that defined us, he also kind of maps how

438
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 3: we go from this analog era to the digital era,

439
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 3: which is something that only those of us, you know

440
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:53,199
Speaker 3: of roughly, this generation really experienced both side of you know,

441
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,719
Speaker 3: not both sides of like for everybody that's born after

442
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 3: kind of the advent of the internet, it's hard to

443
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 3: imagine like going to a record store and paying you know,

444
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 3: eleven dollars for a CD that you can only play,

445
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 3: you know, in an instrument, you know, in a in

446
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 3: a machine that plays CDs and actually spending that much

447
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 3: money on it. But whether it's you know, buying the

448
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 3: early Guns and Roses records or waiting for use your

449
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,199
Speaker 3: Illusion to come out or whatever it was, that was

450
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 3: such a huge thing for us whereas now everything is

451
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 3: at our fingertips and that ability to be like, Okay,

452
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 3: I want to go deep clash today and like, you know,

453
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 3: look at the weird B sides and you know, experience

454
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 3: the like reggae era and influence of that. You can

455
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 3: it's everything is so much more accessible that it's made

456
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 3: my taste I think, I mean everybody's, but certainly mine

457
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 3: much more eclectic, where I'm like, okay, I want to

458
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 3: go on a trip here and just go you know,

459
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 3: deep said Barrett or you know, like I'll listen to

460
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 3: you know, your sid Barrett episod and be like, okay,

461
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 3: I'm going early Floyd and like deep bear it and

462
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 3: just like grooving out to that. But I kind of

463
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 3: followed the trails wherever it comes. You know, I'll hear

464
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 3: a song, you know, hear a hip hop song in

465
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 3: a new movie, and that'll send me off down that

466
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 3: rabbit hole. So it's become broad and eclectic.

467
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 1: I can't tell which era is better. I really can't.

468
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: I can't. You know, I hear you completely and it

469
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: was harder to discover stuff. I can't tell now though,

470
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: if it's if it's me romanticizing my youth and thinking

471
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 1: that it meant more because we had to work harder

472
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: for the discovery of it, and now the discovery is

473
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 1: it's so much easier. It's just like, you know, if

474
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: I wanted to see Taxi Driver when I was eighteen, Yeah,

475
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: get on a bus, go to Wooster to my friend's

476
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: apartment who lived near the cool video store, because I

477
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 1: didn't even live near a video in a town where

478
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: they had a video store that would have Taxi Driver,

479
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And and you know, convinced

480
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 1: the cool kid to show it to me, and it

481
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: was like this this whole process you had to go to.

482
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: Now it's you know, you just go to YouTube and

483
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: you'll get Taxi Driver clips and maybe as a young kid,

484
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: you're not even gonna sit down and watch the whole

485
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: film because you've seen it in all these clips. I

486
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: don't know.

487
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 3: I don't it just well, I think I think there's

488
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 3: joys to both sides of it, right. I don't think

489
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 3: it's an either or thing. I think it's a both

490
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 3: and uh in terms of for those of us that

491
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 3: experience that, like I loved the video store, like my

492
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,199
Speaker 3: I lied to get a job in the video store,

493
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 3: and you know, faking my I got a fake ID

494
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 3: to go to work in a video store because I

495
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 3: was like that crazy for it, because I was like, Okay,

496
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 3: I'm gonna finally get to rent Faces of Death when

497
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 3: they're not looking or whatever the hell it is.

498
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was.

499
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 3: So so so so there was that joy to it

500
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 3: of the journey and the scrape and and you know,

501
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 3: I don't smoke weed anymore, but I remember like when

502
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,239
Speaker 3: I did, there was that like the fun of like

503
00:27:58,280 --> 00:27:59,919
Speaker 3: going to like how are you going to score like

504
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 3: quarterback of weed. Now it's like you go to the

505
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 3: weed store and you get anything on Earth, or you

506
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 3: go to the you know, you go to Spotify and

507
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 3: you get anything you can think of. And I think

508
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 3: there's good and bad to both sides of those. But

509
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 3: I do miss the tactile right, Like I miss you know,

510
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 3: holding the holding the I remember the VHS cases and

511
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 3: like I could go to the video store and just

512
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 3: read the backs of movies and not even rent anything

513
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:29,239
Speaker 3: and have a totally satisfying experience. Whereas you know, you

514
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 3: click on like you know, Netflix today and you're like

515
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 3: you're looking for forty five minutes to decide what to

516
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 3: watch and Finally, forty five minutes later, I'm like, dude,

517
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 3: I'm too tired. I'm not I'm going to read a

518
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 3: book instead.

519
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,719
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, I did the worst sin ever man I

520
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: was in. I was in Orlando a couple of days

521
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: ago because I had to go to the airport, is

522
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: the only reason I was in Orlando. But I had

523
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: a lot of time to kill. So I found like,

524
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, I'm going to find I'm

525
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: going to google like the coolest coffee shop I can find,

526
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: and that'll put me hopefully in a good neighborhood. And

527
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: it did. And the coffee shop was beyond cool. I mean,

528
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: they had this vinyl selection that blew my mind. And

529
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: they only had like like ten books. And I found

530
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: the Billie Holiday Autobiography on a hardcover, and I'm like,

531
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: I am buying this shit. No one has this book

532
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: four hundred dollars, So I didn't buy it. But what

533
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: I did discover was this DVD, this two DVD set

534
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,959
Speaker 1: of this documentary on Max's Kansas City in the Famous

535
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: Club in New York.

536
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 3: YEP.

537
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: I've done every bit of research you could probably do

538
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: into seventies New York punk rock I've never heard of

539
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: this thing, never heard of this documentary, and I didn't

540
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: buy it because I don't have a DVD player.

541
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it's it's and it's fun going to put

542
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 3: it in. Well, it's funny because there are all these

543
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 3: super fascinating things that fall through the cracks of the

544
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 3: like digital sieve, right, Like, because once upon a time

545
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 3: when all these places started, like Netflix, was a mail

546
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 3: order DVD joint, and so I'm kind of wondering, like

547
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 3: I may go back to the like mail order, because

548
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 3: there's like weird stuff that's not streaming and not streaming

549
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 3: anywhere that actually you can get on DVD. But yes,

550
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 3: you got to get a DVD player, right, you know.

551
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 3: But I you know, it's like it's it's it's renewed

552
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 3: my love of the like vinyl collection and whatever else.

553
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 3: Like there is joy to that tactile thing in this

554
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 3: you know digital you know, bizarre domain that we all

555
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 3: live in and have it and appreciate. But I also

556
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 3: do miss just having it in your hands.

557
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: I hear you, man, I hear you. All right, let

558
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: me get back to I want to get back to

559
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: Ramirez for a couple more questions. One's one selfishly, I

560
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: want to ask you this and see if you feel

561
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: the same way that I feel, and then how you

562
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: deal with it. So oftentimes when I'm researching something dark

563
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: and we both feel in a lot of dark subject matter,

564
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: if I spend too much time in it, yeah, transference

565
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: is too strong of a word.

566
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 3: It sticks to you, though, Yeah, it sticks to you.

567
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: And there's like in my head, I have it. I

568
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: have a real agible fear of this. There's like some

569
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: trip wire that I don't want to cross. Yeah, I

570
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: don't know what's on the other side, but I don't

571
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: like how close I'm getting, and it affects my moods.

572
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: I have to like go through this process of either

573
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: working out or watching something like like like Friends or

574
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: something to kind of like claim, yep, yep, what do

575
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: you feel? This sounds like you do, and then how

576
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: do you deal with it?

577
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 3: I hugely feel it, and it's something I think that

578
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 3: like the older I get, the more acutely aware of

579
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 3: it I am. And so I have a handful of

580
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 3: things that I do to kind of take the edge

581
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,719
Speaker 3: off and to shed it a little bit, which is

582
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 3: when I wake up in the morning, one of the

583
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 3: first things I do is read this, you know, daily

584
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 3: calendar of Buddhist wisdom, and or right before I go

585
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 3: to sleep, I make sure that I'm putting some input

586
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 3: that's positive and toward the light. So I always book

587
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 3: in my day with that. And before I start messing

588
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 3: with the phone or returning emails or you know, grinding

589
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 3: on whatever it is, I put in a little bit

590
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 3: of the light to kind of compensate for the darkness.

591
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 3: And then I do a lot of you know, I

592
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 3: meditate twice a day, I do yoga, I go running.

593
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 3: I kind of you have to shed it, and I mean,

594
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 3: imagine how much more intense it is for the folks

595
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 3: that are out there, you know, actually working these murder investigations,

596
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 3: like you talk about sticking to you. It's amazing to

597
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 3: me that the like secondhand trauma or reporters that are

598
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 3: out there or you know, war journalists, so ours it's

599
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 3: a little bit removed, but it is your consciousness. And

600
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 3: I think the more you marinate in that, you have

601
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 3: to find something that balances to takes the edge off

602
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 3: and puts the light in.

603
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: It's true, It's true. You talk about the cops and

604
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: the first responders and these folks that victims. I mean,

605
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: I mean one of one of Ramiroz is one of

606
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: the women survived, which is just crazy.

607
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and and with you know, when when doing

608
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 3: docs right, you're dealing with the real stuff where I

609
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 3: remember literally as like boxes would show up at the

610
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 3: office and it's you know, the actual crime scene photos,

611
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 3: hundreds if not thousands of them of what it looked

612
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 3: like at the time, and they're shot in you know,

613
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 3: five x sevens or four by six's or what they are,

614
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 3: and the tactile present nature or sitting in the edit

615
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 3: bay where you're looking at that, and it's you have

616
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 3: to immerse yourself and marinate fully in a story, I think,

617
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 3: to get at the heart of it, but at the

618
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,719
Speaker 3: same time you do have to put it down and

619
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 3: walk away from it. I mean, it was the same

620
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 3: thing as we're doing Waco and David Koresh on this

621
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 3: new series. It's like, you know, you're you're entering into

622
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 3: this weird world of god and guns and kind of

623
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 3: violence and death and you have to walk back. But

624
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 3: you have to be your heart has to be fully

625
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 3: in it, to be fully empathetic, to tell these stories

626
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 3: in a nuanced and thoughtful way. But you don't want

627
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 3: to drown in it.

628
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's that's a good way to put it.

629
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: You don't want it, you don't want to drown in it.

630
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: You need to you need to balance it. You talk

631
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: about putting in putting the light. I think about how

632
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: do I how do I be the light? You know?

633
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: I heard somewhere and it just stuck with me. It's like, Okay,

634
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 1: if I can, if I can put my head there,

635
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: that will help. And I find it. It does help,

636
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 1: And I do similar things too. At night, I do

637
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 1: the same sort. I have a different come down experience,

638
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:40,720
Speaker 1: but it is necessary. You referenced the new series Waco.

639
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: I believe the trailer was dropped today. Correct, Yeah, to

640
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 1: trailer drop today on rolling Stone. I think it's you know,

641
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: out out wide now. But rolling Stone was gracious enough,

642
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,959
Speaker 1: and you know, as a music fan, it's a cool

643
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: place to have a drop.

644
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 3: So I was glad to have it out there.

645
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: Nice. And the series comes out March twenty second, Is

646
00:34:59,280 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: that right?

647
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 3: Twenty Yes, in March twenty two it drops on Netflix.

648
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 1: Awesome and okay, so so Waco American Apocalypse. I saw

649
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: the trailer. It looks incredible for anyone listening, make make

650
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: sure you go watch that, Make sure you add it

651
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: to your list on Netflix. But Tiller tell us tell

652
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: Us about this series.

653
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 3: It was a really fascinating deep dive. When I first

654
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 3: came to it, I came to it with trepidation because

655
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 3: I felt like, well, you know, it's we're coming up

656
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 3: on the thirtieth anniversary. This story has been told. It

657
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 3: was told, you know, on the daily news and the papers.

658
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 3: It's been told countless times. You know, is there anything

659
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 3: new here for for for me to explore? And what

660
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 3: happened was these producers that I work with had gotten

661
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 3: hold of this amazing footage that had been shot inside

662
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 3: the FBI's you know, hostage negotiation room. And what had

663
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 3: happened was they when the FBI rolled up, they thought, oh,

664
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 3: this will be done in a couple of days, we'll

665
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 3: shoot some video. It'll be a training tool in Quantico,

666
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 3: and you know, away we go, it'll be a useful

667
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 3: training tool. Well, obviously what happened happened. You know, this

668
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 3: massive gunfight that was the biggest gunfight on American soil

669
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 3: since the Civil War, leads to this fifty one day

670
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 3: siege and this horrifying fire that happens live on national television,

671
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 3: but that those tapes that had been shot inside of

672
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 3: the hostage negotiators doing what they do had never seen

673
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:24,879
Speaker 3: the light of day. And then the deeper I got,

674
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,399
Speaker 3: the more of this kind of material there was, whether

675
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 3: it's the snipers outside the compound. And the weird fascinating

676
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:37,240
Speaker 3: thing for me was all of these people, no matter

677
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 3: who they were, were not who I expected them to be.

678
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 3: You know, the sniper was actually a poet. The FBI's

679
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 3: hostage negotiator actually had massive criticism for the way the

680
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 3: FBI had handled it. The last child out, who was

681
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 3: nine years old and had her whole life kind of

682
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 3: shattered with the death of her family, refused to be

683
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 3: defined defined by that. And so it was this deeply

684
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 3: humanist exploration and experience that has all these kind of

685
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 3: explosive topics swirling around it. So it was it was

686
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 3: really hard and really and and really fascinating and moving

687
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 3: to make.

688
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that your your immediate approach

689
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: is like, well, this has been done. How do I

690
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: find a way to tell it in a way that

691
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,240
Speaker 1: hasn't been done? And I love that You're You're taking

692
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: these characters and you're you're presenting characters that, you know,

693
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 1: if this is the made for TV version of this,

694
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: it'd be you know, the tobacco chewing sniper who's just

695
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: out of the.

696
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 3: Air, the knuckle dragger, and yeah, exactly.

697
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,919
Speaker 1: And and that isn't life. That life is always full

698
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: of nuance in these interesting contrasts. And I think that's

699
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 1: part of what makes your filmmaking so damn interesting, is

700
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: your ability to go there. Did you feel because you

701
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: your Dallas connection, did you feel like you had to

702
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: tell this story in some way, I mean, being so

703
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 1: close to Waco.

704
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 3: Well, it definitely, you know, I find myself now wading

705
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 3: into these stories that were in some way defining of

706
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 3: my youth. You know that this was the biggest news

707
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 3: story in the world, dominating absolutely everything, And so on

708
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 3: the one hand, it's very humbling to think, like, Okay,

709
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 3: I'm now the person that's going to wade into the

710
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 3: story and try to tell the definitive version of it

711
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 3: or or a nuanced version of it that's never been

712
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 3: done before. And on the on the other hand, it

713
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:36,280
Speaker 3: feels like it's this great responsibility to really mind those uh,

714
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 3: you know, the nuanced corners of it and and to

715
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 3: to you know, to do it in a way that's

716
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 3: loving and deep and complicated, because I think that's a

717
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 3: lot of what we're, you know, have lost in the culture.

718
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 3: Is everything is nuanced, but it feels like America in

719
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 3: particular right now, everybody's screaming and nobody's listening, and so

720
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 3: being able to kind of hold the tension of the opposite,

721
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 3: you know, as Young says, I think is is a

722
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 3: super important you know, outlook and approach as an artist.

723
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: Agreed, Agreed, And thankfully you're out there doing it in

724
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: this medium better than anyone else. What else you can

725
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: you talk about what's next that you're working on before

726
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:16,399
Speaker 1: we split here?

727
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 3: You know, we've got another series that's dropping on Netflix

728
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 3: that a brilliant director that I brought in to work on.

729
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 3: It will be premiering like three or four weeks and

730
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 3: I can't quite tell you the name of it, but

731
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 3: three or four weeks after Waco, look for another one

732
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 3: which which is also kind of an iconic ten year anniversary,

733
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 3: which you'll be which you'll be seeing coming down the

734
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 3: line as soon as they announce it.

735
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 1: Nice busy guy, man, You're like a shark. You don't stop.

736
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 3: You just just trying to keep just trying to keep

737
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 3: breathing and keep working, man.

738
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: Just like you. I love it.

739
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 2: Man.

740
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 1: Hey, dude, thank you so much for coming on and

741
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: talking to me. I know how busy you are, and

742
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 1: I really really appreciate it. I always love talking to you.

743
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: So yeah, man, just want to say thanks everyone out there.

744
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: He's Till A. Russell. Make sure you go to your

745
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: Netflix and you click that little you know, add to

746
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: my list button for for Waco American Apocalypse and watch

747
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:10,760
Speaker 1: Night Stalker if you haven't already. And uh yeah, google

748
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: the seven five because that might be my favorite of

749
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: Tiller's amazing films. Thanks dude, I appreciate it.

750
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me, buddy. Keep making great work

751
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 3: you as well.

752
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: I'll talk to you soon.

753
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 2: Bye.

754
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 3: Be good.

755
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 1: All right, guys, that was my interview with Tiller Russell.

756
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 1: I hope you liked it more after party, right after this, Okay,

757
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 1: all right, My recommendations this week, they're gonna be short

758
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: and they're gonna be sweet. I recommend you all go

759
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 1: watch Tiller Russell's films. The Night Stalker on Netflix is incredible,

760
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: a massive hit. It's a series. It's a docu series. It's,

761
00:40:57,800 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: like I said, a huge hit. Markets don't live people.

762
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 1: Lots of people watch this true crime documentary series because

763
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: it is incredible. So go watch Tailors the Night Soccer.

764
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,720
Speaker 1: Watch Tiller's other doc The Seven to Five, about corrupt

765
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 1: New York City cops in the nineties. This in all seriousness,

766
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: and I thought this way before I knew Tiller. This

767
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 1: might be my favorite documentary of all time. It is

768
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: so fucking good, The Seven to Five. I recommend you

769
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:26,399
Speaker 1: listen to ac DC, Loud Bond, Scott Era ac DC.

770
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: If you haven't heard Powereddge, you've seen it, you just hear.

771
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 1: You're like, I don't know, man, I'm gonna let there

772
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: be rock guy. You know I like Hive Old Ditch

773
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 1: or or you know, I'm into the Brian Johnson stuff.

774
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: If you haven't given Power Ridge it's due as an

775
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 1: album from start to finish, you are missing out on life. Seriously,

776
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 1: we're supposed to embrace life. We're supposed to be active

777
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,479
Speaker 1: participants in this life. And I'm telling you Power Ridge

778
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: is the ac DC album even better. Then let there

779
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: be rock fight me. I know you're out there. I

780
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: know all of you disagree pretty much, or you're just like,

781
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: what the fuck is even PowerEdge? I don't even know

782
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: what that is. Trust me, I love this record so much.

783
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 1: I have like gone to bed at night and closed

784
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: my eyes and just without even listening to the record,

785
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: just fantasizing that I'm in some small dingy rock club

786
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy eight and I somehow happen upon ACDC

787
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: playing a small show, just doing this album start to finish.

788
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: It is so good. There aren't any huge ACDC hits

789
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: on anythink riff Raff might be the closest thing to

790
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 1: a hit on that album, but it's just oh and

791
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,280
Speaker 1: talk about storytelling, next level Bond Scott at the peak

792
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 1: of his power is so good. So yeah, listen to ACDC,

793
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: But specifically I'm recommending that you listen to Powerage, and

794
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: I'm recommending you go and you watch some NASCAR races

795
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: more Rex next week. Coming at you a little a

796
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 1: little differently this week with the interview you in this

797
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 1: podcast episode, but I do want to I do want

798
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: to tell you real quick before we jump into the

799
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 1: next segment here on YouTube, I'm recommending that you go

800
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: to YouTube. There's some music storytelling there the YouTube disgracelam channel.

801
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 1: Last week we featured the story of James Brown at

802
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 1: the Boston Garden in nineteen sixty eight, an incredible story.

803
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 1: You can see that video at YouTube dot com slash

804
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: at disgrace lampod. You're not gonna hear that in the podcast.

805
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 1: You're not gonna get that in your RSS feed. You know,

806
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: you're not gonna have my image, my video, all the

807
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: visuals we do for this thing aren't going to come

808
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: through the podcast machine. You gotta go. You gotta go

809
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 1: to YouTube YouTube dot com slash at disgrace lampod to

810
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: get this story. This week on that YouTube channel, we

811
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 1: have the real story of the Cocaine Bear, Yes, that

812
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: cocaine bear, the one that the movie is based on,

813
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 1: the real story about that coke eating bear and a

814
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 1: legendary coke snorting country music outlaw. But again that one too,

815
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: just like the James Brown one and everything we do

816
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: over at YouTube, it's only available on YouTube. You gotta

817
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: go subscribe over there, and it's free. When I say subscribe,

818
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: I just mean you hit the sub button. That's it.

819
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash at disgrace sampod. Next week in

820
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: your Disgrace slam podcast feed Mac Miller, But for now,

821
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: me reading the phone book from Augusta, Wisconsin in nineteen

822
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 1: fifty four Bits Clifford, fll Clark eight eight dash W

823
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 1: Bach august Augusta two four four dash W Becker Ralph three,

824
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: Oliva Cleghorn fourteen, dash F two three Belkie Clarence one

825
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 1: Rum Cleighorn twenty five dash five two three Belkie Emma

826
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: Cleghorn six, dash F one three Bennett Cecil Augusta, Dash

827
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: two three six Burgerson Eleanor Augusta two three nine dash

828
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:25,240
Speaker 1: M Besky Charles two Fairchild Augusta nine, dash F five

829
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: Bill and Jacks Taverns Augusta, Dash seventeen, Bittner, Jay Mist,

830
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: Reverend fl Clark, dash sixteen Blakeley Lynn fl Clark, dash

831
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 1: five seven dash R two.

832
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,839
Speaker 4: Quit talking and start mixing good