WEBVTT - Presenting: Be Antiracist with Ibram X. Kendi 0:00:15.076 --> 0:00:23.676 Pushkin, Hey, Solvable listeners, we are hard at work on 0:00:23.756 --> 0:00:26.116 new episodes of the show, but this week we wanted 0:00:26.156 --> 0:00:29.636 to bring you something special that I am very excited about. 0:00:30.036 --> 0:00:33.236 It's a sneak peak of Pushkin's newest show, Be Anti 0:00:33.356 --> 0:00:37.156 Racist with Ibram x Kendy. You may have heard of 0:00:37.196 --> 0:00:39.876 doctor Kendy from his most recent nonfiction work such as 0:00:39.876 --> 0:00:42.596 Stamped and How to Be An Anti Racist, But for 0:00:42.636 --> 0:00:44.636 those of you who haven't heard of him, he is 0:00:44.676 --> 0:00:48.676 not only an author, but professor, activist, and historian of 0:00:48.796 --> 0:00:51.996 race and discriminatory policy. At thirty four, he was the 0:00:52.076 --> 0:00:55.156 youngest person ever to win the National Book Award for Nonfiction. 0:00:55.956 --> 0:00:58.916 I personally find his writing very approachable and his concepts 0:00:58.916 --> 0:01:02.796 of recognizing the assumptions of racism and ourselves easily digestible. 0:01:03.276 --> 0:01:06.396 He not only discusses the basics of bias and anti racism, 0:01:06.676 --> 0:01:10.436 but also provide optimistic solutions to fixed on broken system, 0:01:10.476 --> 0:01:14.636 which is what we love here at Solvable. On his 0:01:14.756 --> 0:01:18.476 new show, Be Anti Racist, doctor Kendey is continuing these 0:01:18.556 --> 0:01:22.716 necessary discussions on policies and practices that sustain injustice in 0:01:22.756 --> 0:01:26.556 our society and how we can dismantle racism and build 0:01:26.556 --> 0:01:30.836 a just, equitable world. His guests will include Julian Castro, 0:01:31.116 --> 0:01:35.316 Jamel Hill, Don Lemon, Heather c McGee, Mariam Kabba, and 0:01:35.436 --> 0:01:39.356 many more. Today, we're sharing an excerpt of an interview 0:01:39.356 --> 0:01:42.676 with Rebecca Cokeley, one of the country's leading voices on 0:01:42.756 --> 0:01:46.956 disability rights. Doctor Kendy and Rebecca have a frank conversation 0:01:47.316 --> 0:01:50.676 on the intersections of ableism and racism in America, the 0:01:50.796 --> 0:01:54.796 historic civil rights legislation governing both, and what we can 0:01:54.836 --> 0:01:57.516 all do to advocate for a better future for people 0:01:57.556 --> 0:02:02.356 with disabilities. Okay, here's a preview. You can hear the 0:02:02.396 --> 0:02:05.956 full episode by searching for be Anti Racist wherever you're 0:02:05.996 --> 0:02:21.596 listening right now. Welcome to Be Anti Racist in Action Podcasts, 0:02:21.636 --> 0:02:26.196 where we discuss how to diagnose, dismantle, and abolish racism, 0:02:26.276 --> 0:02:29.876 how to save humanity from the divisiveness of racist ideas 0:02:29.876 --> 0:02:34.036 and the destructiveness of racist power and policy. How to 0:02:34.156 --> 0:02:37.996 free humanity through the unity of anti racist ideas and 0:02:38.076 --> 0:02:43.556 the constructiveness of anti racist power and policy. We were 0:02:43.596 --> 0:02:47.116 all born into a world of racist ideas, many of 0:02:47.156 --> 0:02:49.836 which I myself consumed as a young man in New 0:02:49.956 --> 0:02:53.716 York in Virginia. Throughout my life I've had to come 0:02:53.716 --> 0:02:56.316 to grips with some of the things that I imagine 0:02:56.436 --> 0:02:59.396 and thought were true about the world and the people 0:02:59.436 --> 0:03:02.476 in it. And like all of us, I'm still learning 0:03:03.636 --> 0:03:07.276 in my pursuit of understanding. I became an historian. I've 0:03:07.316 --> 0:03:11.116 written books, been on TV, taught at universities, lectured around 0:03:11.156 --> 0:03:14.156 the world. In the latest step in my journey is 0:03:14.156 --> 0:03:18.436 to help you on yours, for us to keep growing together. 0:03:19.476 --> 0:03:22.436 On b Anti Racist, we discuss how to make the 0:03:22.476 --> 0:03:26.396 impossible possible and how to bring into being what modern 0:03:26.476 --> 0:03:33.396 humans have never known, a just, inequitable world. You ready, 0:03:34.196 --> 0:03:49.196 let's rollclusion finally come tumbling down. More than thirty years ago, 0:03:49.276 --> 0:03:53.436 then President George Herbert Walker Bush signed the Americans with 0:03:53.476 --> 0:03:57.996 Disabilities Act into law. It came after a long struggle 0:03:58.396 --> 0:04:02.756 by disability activists to extend the protections guaranteed by the 0:04:02.836 --> 0:04:06.756 Civil Rights Act. This act is powerful in its simplicity. 0:04:07.276 --> 0:04:10.876 It will ensure that people with this alies are given 0:04:10.916 --> 0:04:15.316 the basic guarantees for which they have worked so long 0:04:15.436 --> 0:04:21.396 and so hard. Independence, freedom of choice, control of their lives, 0:04:21.796 --> 0:04:25.476 the opportunity to blend fully and equally into the rich 0:04:25.596 --> 0:04:30.556 mosaic of the American mainstream. The signing of the ADA 0:04:30.636 --> 0:04:33.596 took place a lifetime ago, and it was the culmination 0:04:33.676 --> 0:04:37.436 of more lifetimes of struggle. But what kind of progress 0:04:37.436 --> 0:04:41.796 have we made? My guest today is Rebecca Cokeley, one 0:04:41.836 --> 0:04:46.236 of the country's leading voices on disability rights. I'm especially 0:04:46.276 --> 0:04:49.756 impressed by how well she centers race in her analysis 0:04:49.836 --> 0:04:54.796 and advocacy. She founded and directed the Disability Justice Initiative 0:04:54.956 --> 0:04:58.236 at the Center for American Progress and served as the 0:04:58.316 --> 0:05:03.676 executive director of the National Council on Disability. Recently, Cokelely 0:05:03.756 --> 0:05:06.556 joined the Ford Foundation as the first program officer to 0:05:06.676 --> 0:05:10.436 lead a US based disability rights for Foli Leo. She's 0:05:10.476 --> 0:05:14.396 also a California native, a mother, and someone who served 0:05:14.476 --> 0:05:17.276 in the Obama administration from two thousand and nine to 0:05:17.356 --> 0:05:21.356 twenty thirteen. The day I sat down to talk with 0:05:21.396 --> 0:05:24.556 Rebecca happened to be the day that the closing arguments 0:05:24.596 --> 0:05:28.716 in the Derek Chauvin trial were presented in Minneapolis. It 0:05:28.756 --> 0:05:34.436 was an intense day for both of us. Hey, Rebecca, Hey, 0:05:34.476 --> 0:05:39.236 how have you been? Man? Here's about a question, how 0:05:39.236 --> 0:05:45.476 are you really? I think I'm overwhelmed and traumatized and 0:05:45.556 --> 0:05:49.836 excited and outraged. It's this sort of weird mix of 0:05:49.876 --> 0:05:53.236 all of those emotions. What about you, how are you 0:05:53.316 --> 0:05:56.956 feeling in this moment? You know, I think I had 0:05:56.956 --> 0:06:00.396 done a panel at Netroot several years ago, was myself 0:06:00.516 --> 0:06:03.916 and a couple of folks from on the ground in Ferguson, 0:06:03.996 --> 0:06:05.716 and one of the things they said at the time 0:06:05.796 --> 0:06:08.756 that it stuck with me is that they believed that 0:06:08.796 --> 0:06:13.356 PETE PSD doesn't exist because what we're dealing with is 0:06:13.396 --> 0:06:19.276 a constant state of trauma, stress and disorder. And it 0:06:19.316 --> 0:06:21.636 has been probably one of the thoughts that has stayed 0:06:21.636 --> 0:06:24.396 in my head consistently since then, because the notion that 0:06:24.436 --> 0:06:27.356 there is a time and a space for recovery almost 0:06:27.356 --> 0:06:33.116 feels like a luxury exactly. It's trauma all around, exactly, 0:06:33.956 --> 0:06:36.996 and part of that, even as we talk, we have 0:06:37.116 --> 0:06:41.796 to be very cognizant about our terminology, and so I think, 0:06:41.956 --> 0:06:47.276 starting this conversation, how should we what terminology should we 0:06:47.356 --> 0:06:52.396 be using when we're thinking about disability or the disabled community. 0:06:52.956 --> 0:06:55.676 You know, to me, I love the word disability. I 0:06:55.756 --> 0:07:01.156 love it because of the beauty of the elasticity of 0:07:01.196 --> 0:07:04.196 the term a It was a word that was chosen 0:07:04.396 --> 0:07:07.076 by our elders and it was the first time that 0:07:07.956 --> 0:07:12.436 people with disability is formally declared what they wanted to 0:07:12.476 --> 0:07:16.276 be called. And then in the crafting of the ADA, 0:07:16.556 --> 0:07:21.356 the definition is any mental or physical impairment that impacts 0:07:21.356 --> 0:07:25.236 activities of daily life, a history or a record of 0:07:25.236 --> 0:07:31.676 such impairment. And so the definition is broad enough to 0:07:31.796 --> 0:07:35.396 encompass the children in Flint, Michigan that are still several 0:07:35.436 --> 0:07:39.156 thousand days without clean drinking water and have acquired learning 0:07:39.156 --> 0:07:42.436 disabilities as a result of it. It's broad enough to 0:07:42.516 --> 0:07:47.316 include elders like Fanny lew Hamer who are involuntarily sterilized. 0:07:48.156 --> 0:07:50.996 And it's broad enough to include people living with long 0:07:51.036 --> 0:07:53.116 haul COVID that are still trying to figure out how 0:07:53.156 --> 0:07:57.796 they navigate this space and time. To me, so often 0:07:57.916 --> 0:08:02.236 definitions are so restrictive, and this is instead about does 0:08:02.276 --> 0:08:05.156 it impact how you eat, how you live, how you 0:08:05.196 --> 0:08:08.356 engage with your loved ones? And the beauty of that 0:08:08.436 --> 0:08:11.436 is that it varies with each person definitely. And how 0:08:11.436 --> 0:08:17.476 would you define I always go to the definition by 0:08:17.596 --> 0:08:21.676 my colleague Talila Lewis and Dustin Gibson that talks about 0:08:22.436 --> 0:08:27.276 ableism as a system that places value on people's bodies 0:08:27.356 --> 0:08:33.196 and minds, based on society lee constructed ideas of normalcy, intelligence, excellence, 0:08:33.196 --> 0:08:37.316 and productivity. These ideas are deeply rooted in anti blackness 0:08:37.396 --> 0:08:41.836 and eugenics, colonialism, and capitalism. And you don't have to 0:08:41.876 --> 0:08:46.196 be disabled to experience ableism. It's really grounded in the 0:08:46.236 --> 0:08:49.516 notion of who is valuable and worthy based on a 0:08:49.556 --> 0:08:55.396 person's appearance and or their ability to produce, reproduce, excel 0:08:55.676 --> 0:08:57.236 and the term that they use, and I think is 0:08:57.236 --> 0:09:00.716 really powerful and or behave. Somebody might not have a 0:09:00.796 --> 0:09:03.516 choice how they appear in public, how they engage in public, 0:09:04.076 --> 0:09:06.916 but the way that society responds to them, if they 0:09:06.956 --> 0:09:09.396 walk with a limp, if they speak with us matter, 0:09:10.116 --> 0:09:14.396 if they use a communication board to communicate, All of 0:09:14.436 --> 0:09:17.396 those things fall under the behavior piece, which I think 0:09:17.436 --> 0:09:19.476 is really critically important when we think about what it 0:09:19.516 --> 0:09:22.716 means to live in society. Wow. And it of course 0:09:22.876 --> 0:09:28.556 makes me think about how people respond to certain people 0:09:28.636 --> 0:09:31.596 because of the color of their skin, because of the 0:09:31.636 --> 0:09:35.316 texture of their hair, because of the culture that they practice, 0:09:35.396 --> 0:09:40.236 because of the language that they speak. And then when 0:09:40.276 --> 0:09:45.316 we start thinking about the intersection of ableism and racism, 0:09:45.836 --> 0:09:48.316 I think that's when it becomes tricky for many people 0:09:48.356 --> 0:09:52.436 because I think in many ways many Americans don't necessarily 0:09:52.476 --> 0:09:56.076 have a clear definition of racism, nor do they have 0:09:56.116 --> 0:10:01.076 a clear definition of which then prevents them from understanding 0:10:01.796 --> 0:10:05.996 their intersection. And so how should we understand their intersection? 0:10:06.876 --> 0:10:09.956 I mean, they're roots of the same treat It's funny. 0:10:09.996 --> 0:10:13.156 I actually went back through your book after reading it 0:10:13.236 --> 0:10:16.396 the first time, and every time there was something there 0:10:16.396 --> 0:10:18.836 that I was like, oh, it parallels here. I literally 0:10:18.916 --> 0:10:22.396 like drew a picture of a tree, thinking about even 0:10:22.516 --> 0:10:27.796 from the days of slavery and the discussion of things 0:10:27.836 --> 0:10:30.756 like drape to mania, the psychosis that went along with 0:10:30.956 --> 0:10:35.796 runaway slaves, the development and frankly still continued use in 0:10:35.836 --> 0:10:40.596 many circles of phrenology, the examination of the physicality of 0:10:40.636 --> 0:10:44.156 a group of people in order to determine superiority or not. 0:10:44.996 --> 0:10:49.836 Many of those things are still common discussion today. Individuals 0:10:49.836 --> 0:10:53.796 who are slaughtered by law enforcement at least fifty percent 0:10:53.876 --> 0:10:57.556 are people with disabilities, whether it be a mental illness, 0:10:57.636 --> 0:11:02.196 whether it be a speech impediment, whether it be substance use, 0:11:02.236 --> 0:11:05.676 which counts if somebody is in recovery. Even with the 0:11:05.716 --> 0:11:11.116 Derek Schouven trial, hearing the reliance on ablest language as 0:11:11.156 --> 0:11:16.476 a justification for the numerous deaths of African Americans with disabilities. 0:11:17.036 --> 0:11:19.236 But then you have some who say, well, why are 0:11:19.276 --> 0:11:23.596 we still talking about disability? You know, indeed the ADA 0:11:23.716 --> 0:11:27.196 was passed in nineteen ninety. Aren't we living in a 0:11:27.236 --> 0:11:31.956 society where folks with the disability, you know, have rights justice, 0:11:32.036 --> 0:11:34.636 black and brown and indigenous and people of color have 0:11:34.796 --> 0:11:37.476 their rights. So why are we talking about this? What 0:11:37.596 --> 0:11:40.476 do you say to those who who make that claims? 0:11:40.516 --> 0:11:44.476 I see you're already shaking it because it's the same 0:11:44.556 --> 0:11:48.236 thing with post racial society, right it is, we still 0:11:48.316 --> 0:11:52.196 deal with a seventy percent at least unemployment. Right we're 0:11:52.276 --> 0:11:56.756 the only community that it is actually grounded in statute 0:11:56.796 --> 0:11:59.596 that it is perfectly legal to pay disabled workers two 0:11:59.596 --> 0:12:04.036 dollars and fifteen cents or less a week. Well, disabled 0:12:04.036 --> 0:12:07.556 people still, if you're on supplemental security income, you can't 0:12:07.596 --> 0:12:10.196 get married or you'll lose your health health insurance. We 0:12:10.316 --> 0:12:13.756 don't have marriage equality yet for disabled people in this country. 0:12:14.156 --> 0:12:16.596 You aren't allowed to maintain more than two thousand dollars 0:12:16.596 --> 0:12:19.556 in a checking account in a lot of cases. Yes, 0:12:19.636 --> 0:12:23.156 the ADA is thirty years old, but eighty percent of 0:12:23.196 --> 0:12:26.516 polling places are still inaccessible to us in one way, 0:12:26.516 --> 0:12:30.556 shape or form. Progress has been made, but there has 0:12:30.636 --> 0:12:33.076 never been the level of enforcement that we need to 0:12:33.236 --> 0:12:39.156 actually see people with disabilities come anywhere near the level 0:12:39.236 --> 0:12:42.076 playing field that the law has fired to all those 0:12:42.156 --> 0:12:46.556 years ago. You can listen to doctor Kenney's full conversation 0:12:46.596 --> 0:12:49.556 with Rebecca Cokeley over on the Banta Racist Feed, on 0:12:49.636 --> 0:12:52.916 the iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get your podcasts.