1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: Live Wire is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Modulator Media. 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: Previously on live Wire, The Loud Life and Shocking Murder 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: of Alan. 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 2: Burg He was always harassing the callers, you know. That 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 2: was his big forte. It was, you know. His one 6 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 2: of his favorite phrases was get to the point, callar, 7 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 2: get to the point, you know, and and if they 8 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 2: didn't get to the point, he'd hang up on because 9 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 2: they were wasting his time. So that was kind of 10 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 2: the fun part of his whole program. 11 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 3: All Right, you want to save your life, save your 12 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 3: dollars in case those hookers show up for dollars recks. 13 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 3: Here's your chance to do it. Protect your dollars right now, 14 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 3: and make those hookers secure when you bring them home. 15 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 3: When the wipe's away on the trip in Hawaii saying Hi, 16 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 3: I think I'm home with the kids, and you whip 17 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 3: the chick down under the base, which you'll be safe, okies, 18 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 3: And he shows the burglar won't ever get to testify 19 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 3: against you this way, he will split the scene, never 20 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 3: knowing that, in fact, you have this hooker down there 21 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 3: for a dollar in the basement. Locked for many years 22 00:00:59,240 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 3: on the comy. 23 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 4: I mean, he was a left of liberal, left of 24 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 4: center liberal, very civil rights, African Americans, Jews, women. 25 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 3: He was. 26 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 4: He was a sixties liberal. You know, if you look 27 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 4: up nineteen sixty eight liberal America, his picture would be there. 28 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 4: That's who he was. 29 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 3: It is an attack on Ray because he's our current president. 30 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 3: I've attacked Carnor, I've attacked every president ever lived, because 31 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 3: they're all one and the same. They're a bunch of 32 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 3: greedy power maniacs who could care less about the well 33 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 3: being of anybody. 34 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 5: I said about five words, Why. 35 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 3: Well, I know what you would say. Anyway, go ahead, 36 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 3: I said, it was our whole audience. He'd been whining 37 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 3: on talk radio for so many years. Why do you 38 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 3: listen if it offends you, take a walk, lie one, 39 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 3: you're on Kiowa. 40 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 6: Yes, he was very progressive in terms of his views 41 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 6: of women. He look his wife, Judas or ex wife, 42 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 6: was a very strong woman. 43 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 3: But I think we're all prostant degrees, don't you. 44 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 5: To a degree? 45 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 7: I think most women are. 46 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 3: You're listening to Alan Berg on News Talk eighty five KOA. 47 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,679 Speaker 8: Call him at eight six one talk. 48 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 3: Alan Berg on KOA. We have about four minutes remain 49 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 3: the hour. A five minutes CBS News Brand Report coming up. 50 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 3: Then back with our final segment of the show. Lines 51 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 3: are full right now, Let's go to line too, You're 52 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 3: on KOA. 53 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty three, KOA was sold to new owners 54 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: and with that sale came a new general manager, Lee Larson. 55 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,119 Speaker 8: I was in a hotel in Denver waiting for the 56 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 8: sale of KOA to be consummated from General Electric to 57 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 8: the company I was working for, and I got a 58 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 8: phone call. The phone call was from Alan Burg. He 59 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 8: wanted to have an urgent meeting with me. That was 60 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 8: something that I definitely had to hear him out about. 61 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 8: He needed to see me right away, and so I 62 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 8: agreed to have a meeting with him, and the next day, 63 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 8: I think it was, we met for a meal at 64 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 8: a local coffee shop. Alan was the first person that 65 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 8: I met at KOA, and the reason he wanted to 66 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 8: get together with me was because he had recently been 67 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 8: moved from a daytime slot to an evening slot on 68 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 8: the radio, and he thought that that was unacceptable. He 69 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 8: felt that nighttime was a bit of a demotion maybe 70 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 8: from daytime, and I certainly think that he felt it 71 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 8: was inconvenient to work nights as opposed to working during 72 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 8: the day. 73 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: For most on air personalities, the move to a nighttime 74 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: shift would have been considered a promotion. Not only did 75 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: the move to nights expose Alan to a potentially larger 76 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: audience locally, but the station signal was actually stronger at night, 77 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: giving him access to a larger national audience as well. 78 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: In fact, at night, KWA signal could reach as far 79 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: north as Idaho, a fact that would become shockingly relevant 80 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: after his death. 81 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 8: Anyhow, we had a lengthy discussion about that, and of 82 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 8: course I told him, well, I'm not even in charge 83 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 8: of the radio station yet, and i don't know anything 84 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 8: about the programming lineup, so you'll need to give me 85 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 8: some time to look into that and we can talk further. 86 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: In the end, Lee decided not to move Alan back 87 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: to days. 88 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 8: Actually, Alan was doing a very good job with the 89 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 8: show at night. He's such a character and has such 90 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 8: an interesting show that we felt that he needed to 91 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 8: stay on at night. And at the same time, the 92 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 8: show that had replaced him in the middle of the 93 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 8: day was also doing very well. It was a psychologist 94 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 8: with a call in show. In those days, this is 95 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 8: back in the eighties, that was a very popular type 96 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 8: of show, and so we did not replace Allan and 97 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 8: move the day parts around. 98 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: Allan was concerned with the time slot, but he was 99 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: as popular as ever. Here's Steve singular. 100 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 9: You know. 101 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 7: He would say, Denver's kind of a sleepy town. You know, 102 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 7: there's not a lot going on here. You know, there's 103 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 7: nobody like me to sort of poke people and get 104 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 7: them to think about politics, race, sex, gender and women's liberation, 105 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 7: gay liberation, whatever. Everything. He could talk about anything, spontaneously 106 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 7: and in an interesting way. By nineteen eighty four, talk 107 00:05:54,600 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 7: radio had become quite the phenomenon phenomenon in the United States, 108 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 7: eight so prominent that Sixty Minutes did in January eighty 109 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 7: four a show on some of the rising talk show hosts. 110 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 7: They chose Alan Berg to be on that program. That 111 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 7: was quite the honor for a guy who had left 112 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 7: Chicago not that long ago, down and out, no job, 113 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 7: trying to beat alcoholism. 114 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 10: Wait yelling, if you don't like it, you can move 115 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 10: the most correct And. 116 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 3: I was, if you're not a Christian, you're on American? 117 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 3: Is that your point, sir? Good points, sir. You and 118 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,119 Speaker 3: you're ruddneck caught a bed, you're listening to Alan Burg 119 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 3: on KOA, Alan Berg ont KOWA in Denver. 120 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 11: Allen Berg, one of Denver's most popular radio call in hosts, 121 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 11: is a reformed alcoholic and laps trial lawyer, But like 122 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 11: his counterparts throughout the country, his most important qualifications are 123 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 11: an appetite for anger, an uncontrollable urge to expound on 124 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 11: any subject, and the possession of a verbal version of 125 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 11: a blunt instrument, usually u shortly after the now familiar 126 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 11: words Hello, you're on the air. 127 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 3: Well I you want to ask you something. You're a 128 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 3: reborn Christian, you believe in Jesus. Do you think Jesus 129 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 3: stopped off? Spend seven hours with Earl Robert saying let's 130 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 3: work out your books here so much you got to 131 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 3: raise oral and I got to get on my way. 132 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 11: Those who listen to Berg get a mixed bag of 133 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 11: mayhem and malarkey, political science and pop psychology, common law 134 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 11: and uncommon sense, all of it laced with aggression, abuse 135 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 11: and sarcasm. 136 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 3: Remember when I left here, you you never shut up. 137 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 3: I got fed up with you. You never let me 138 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 3: get a ward edge. Whyes, this is my ex wife. 139 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 3: Get out of here. I'm embarrassed. I hate women. 140 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 11: Isn't there something a little dangerous about this kind of broadcasting? 141 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 3: There is a danger, I agree with you. That's the 142 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 3: danger that we exhibit an all free all rights of 143 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 3: free expression. Be a columnists who write newspapers. 144 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 11: Yeah, indeed, but you say yourself. You often go on there. 145 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 3: You don't know quite what you're going to say. And 146 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 3: hopefully my legal training will prevent me from saying the 147 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 3: one thing that will kill me. And I've come awfully close. 148 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: Berg's comments about getting killed weren't a joke. Enjoying peak popularity, 149 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: his shows were as fiery as ever, and that contentious 150 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: energy on the air wasn't just a byproduct of violence 151 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: signature arguments with guests. It was no longer about argument 152 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: for the sake of argument. The topics on his show 153 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: were starting to get far more enraging. Divisive topics like 154 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: immigration and the welfare state sound familiar again. 155 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 5: I'm pretty upset about what the government is doing as 156 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 5: far as bringing in all the repugee. 157 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 3: You know, like people by because they're showing a work 158 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,439 Speaker 3: ethic that's better than most Americans, God bless them. Well, no, 159 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 3: I'll make a shake up and do something and work 160 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 3: and earn something and not want to free ride sweetheart wine, 161 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 3: what you're on KLA. 162 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 12: I have a thing about people who to think that 163 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 12: whatever they can do, somebody else can exactly do. Physically, 164 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 12: handicap may not be able to do some of the 165 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 12: things that hurt her mother or grandmother did. 166 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 3: And those very same people would love to tell you 167 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 3: how sensitive there we know. I was doing it. I 168 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 3: did a show in Detroit. I have a very interesting 169 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 3: spread because Detroit is just up for grabs right and 170 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 3: they have thirty five percent of employment. You talk to 171 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 3: the blacks in Detroit right now and tell them about 172 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 3: hey should go out and do it for yourself. There 173 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 3: are no jobs available, and these are unskilled laborers in 174 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 3: many cases, So what are they supposed to do? 175 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:30,319 Speaker 12: I don't know. 176 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 3: I mean there's a reality in life when situations economics. 177 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 3: You know, it's funny we have an earthquake somewhere and 178 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 3: we pile in millions of dollars, that's okay. For what 179 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 3: was it with Mount Helen's Was it the volcano in Italy? 180 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 12: I think there was some you know where they have earthquakes, 181 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 12: and so what we tend to spend money and so 182 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 12: for the healthy. 183 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I guess what's strange is it's the same 184 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 3: kind of pridge that we've all known, and you and 185 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 3: I have discussed so many times. Because one bomb is 186 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 3: on welfare doesn't mean everybody else on welfare as a bump. 187 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 3: And that's that same story type of all Jews or 188 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 3: this all blacks are, that all Catholics are. This is 189 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 3: the same garbage argument. 190 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:13,959 Speaker 12: I have people callings that all do have money, and I'd. 191 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 3: Like to show you my bank account right now, deminy, 192 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 3: you wouldn't believe it. 193 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,319 Speaker 1: I'm filmmaker and journalist tal Pinchewski And this is episode 194 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: four boiling point. Of all the topics Allenberg talked about 195 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: on his show, there was one that generated the most 196 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: angry exchanges. Race. 197 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 5: I can't believe that guy. Is that naive to think 198 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 5: somebody just happens to be on warfare. 199 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 10: That's a bunch of bunks. 200 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 7: Yeah. 201 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 5: You You've got literally literally people that have been on 202 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 5: workfare for generations. They grow up knowing they're gonna go. 203 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 3: Well, I don't believe that at all. I don't think 204 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 3: that's I think that's that's see, that's a very false 205 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 3: image to create. 206 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 5: I can't believe. 207 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 10: You can't believe that there's been so many special but 208 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 10: document a proof how how the fathers on warfare, the 209 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 10: son goes up being warfare, that son's son goes up 210 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 10: to being warfare, employment, whatever, it's it's ridiculous. 211 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 3: Well again, I don't know if I can intially document 212 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 3: in that fashion. But then if that be true, that's 213 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 3: a cultural problem, an educational problem, an opportunity problem, as 214 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 3: much to do with minorities who aren't afforded a chance 215 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 3: to work. 216 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 5: Oh, I know, that's that's garbage. 217 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 3: It's not garbage. Palat. 218 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 5: You go down, you go down in the ghetto. Okay, 219 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,839 Speaker 5: I'm a white middle class a wash. 220 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 3: You go down in the ghetto, and you the wasp 221 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 3: wants to blame everybody else in the world. 222 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 12: Let me finish. 223 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 5: I'm not blaming anybody for this. 224 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 3: You got every advantage going for it because you are 225 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 3: a wash. 226 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 5: Wait a minute, Wait a minute, let me finish what 227 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 5: I'm saying. You take the guy from the ghetto. He 228 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 5: has more opportunity, he has more chance. 229 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 3: Does that really true? 230 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 5: Wait a minute, Let me finish what I'm saying. 231 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 3: I finish up. 232 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 5: He has more opportunity in more ways. Of going to 233 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 5: school from grants, from scholarships from the black You tell 234 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 5: me what would happen if somebody came up with the 235 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 5: with the white man's fund for college? 236 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 3: Now, are you telling me there's no scholarship programs? Are 237 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 3: white people? 238 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:01,599 Speaker 13: Know? 239 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 5: That's what I'm saying. 240 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 3: Specifically, I would bet you if I got to add 241 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 3: up scholarship programs in this country, overwhelmingly they go to whites. 242 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 5: You're not as the one thing. Yeah, you've got the 243 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 5: sporadic ones. 244 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 3: But I'm I mean sporadic ones. The history of this country, 245 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 3: so much education have been founded on scholarships have been 246 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 3: granted to whites longing for blacks even had a crack 247 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 3: at them. You don't know where you're coming from, Lion four. 248 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 3: You're a Kawa. You don't think he has anything to 249 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 3: deal with refreshing and discrimination that's occurred to you. 250 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 8: It doesn't seem to be happy. 251 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 3: Well, of course not, dear, You're as dumb as the rest. 252 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 3: That's I can't take anyone. I can't think it to 253 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 3: sell out. Blacks couldn't get jobs, Chicanas couldn't get jobs. 254 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 3: Civil Rights Commission comes along. We have a fair guy there, 255 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 3: Reagan bounces them out to get a token black guy 256 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 3: on there who probably never saw a black person in 257 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 3: a gettle with his whole life or understands the problem 258 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 3: here is Susan Ryman Well. 259 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 14: I think I think that Allen probably was one of 260 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 14: the people that in that day and age, had a 261 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 14: great respect for black people. I think that he always 262 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 14: fell like they were really triumphantly courageous in a day 263 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 14: and age that was so much worse than than it 264 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 14: is now. 265 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,319 Speaker 1: Berg's battle against hate may have stemmed from his complicated 266 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: relationship with his father. 267 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 13: His dad was out of things. He just never really 268 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 13: got along with his father. His father was a dentist. 269 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: That's Judith Burg. Alan's ex wife. Judith sadly passed away 270 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: in April of twenty twenty five, and this series was 271 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: produced in her honor. 272 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 13: He and his mother and. 273 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 7: Norma were very close. 274 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 13: Alan felt that his father was a bigot and hated 275 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 13: the blacks. 276 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 7: The blacks and Alan Berry had a sort of attachment 277 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 7: to fondness for black culture. He liked the music, he 278 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 7: liked the people, he liked He just resonated with it 279 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 7: and his father racism profoundly bothered him. Judah tells a 280 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 7: story about when Judith and Elan were married in the 281 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 7: early years, they wanted to move into a building in 282 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 7: Chicago that was integrated, and his father said, well, if 283 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 7: you move in there, I won't come see you. I 284 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 7: think this hypocrisy bothered him deeply, deeply. I think it's 285 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 7: part of what drove him to talk about race and 286 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 7: racism on the radio. I think it's part of what 287 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 7: just that shame when it's that close to you is 288 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 7: a very powerful thing, you know, And he said, you know, 289 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 7: I think he saw some of the same hypocrisies in himself. 290 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 7: Not in that realm, not in the realm of race, 291 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 7: but you know, not being faithful in marriage, not keeping 292 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 7: those vows, not being able to succeed in his profession, 293 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 7: not being able to handle the alcohol, representing people in 294 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 7: court that he knew were guilty, all of those things. 295 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 7: And I think that hypocrisy drove him as well. But 296 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 7: I think it originated in that relationship with his father, 297 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 7: and I think a lot of the unhappiness and a 298 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 7: lot of the just the tangled knots that were part 299 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 7: of his personality were driven by that. 300 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 3: You'll cparrently feel that the Jews are part of the 301 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 3: Communist conspiracy? Is that correct? 302 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 15: Well, if I want them to study, I want him 303 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 15: to study of Communislow. I came up across a great 304 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 15: number of Jewish names that were the leaders in the 305 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 15: Communist revolution, and then I also came across a great 306 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 15: many of the Jewish leaders back through the years. He 307 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 15: is a top Jewish leaders who are very proudably admit 308 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 15: of the fact that the Communism was a Jewish us, 309 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 15: a Jewish thing. 310 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 3: Run my show, and as long as you're on my show, 311 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 3: you'll follow my rules. You don't make up all that Jackman. Look, 312 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 3: you don't make up the rules on my show. 313 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 15: You want to end it right here? 314 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 3: Hey, yeah, go ahead, both of you hang up college, 315 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 3: go bail out right now. 316 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 5: That's it. You saw it right there. 317 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 3: That's the same old lines you're throwing more says the 318 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 3: Jews are conspiring to take over the world. When you 319 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 3: hear these lines, I wonder what you think. Do you 320 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 3: believe that kind of stuff? Do you have any evidence? 321 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 3: Or you just take it because Nitwitz like this, throw 322 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 3: this out for the mere's sake of throwing it out. 323 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 3: Because I think he said he was I guess he 324 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 3: said it was a prisoner of war. It was holding 325 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 3: the prisoner out there. I don't know what they did 326 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 3: to his mine, but it becomes quite evident. 327 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: These people calling in an engaging Alan Berg on race 328 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:09,199 Speaker 1: weren't just racist sitting at home fuming. They were organized 329 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: and preaching their white supremacist mantra to anyone who would listen. 330 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 7: As his radio career was progressing, the radical right in 331 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 7: the United States was sort of gearing up through young 332 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 7: through younger people like someone in Denver whose name was 333 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 7: David Lane. 334 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: David Lane, remember that name. 335 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 7: Lane was in the white power movement, if we want 336 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 7: to call it. That had associations with Kukla Klan, and 337 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 7: he would listen to Berg on the radio and then 338 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 7: call in and argue about racism and things like that, 339 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 7: just you know, to get into an argument about it. 340 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,199 Speaker 7: Berg would take him on, take anybody on who it 341 00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 7: was in that ILK would never back down. 342 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 13: He made remarks and said things that were so they 343 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 13: were funny, they were clever. He was. He was never 344 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 13: really insulting unless he had approval to be insulting from 345 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 13: the person. Really that you know that you mind if 346 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 13: I call you a terrible name? 347 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 14: He had. 348 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 13: He was engaging. He just engaged people. However, I don't 349 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 13: know about the Nazis. They didn't like him very much. 350 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 13: They hated him. It wasn't that he was Jewish, it 351 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,400 Speaker 13: was that he was so outspoken. It could have been 352 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 13: that he was anything else, but he was outspoken. 353 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,479 Speaker 1: With a number of prominent white supremacist organizations emerging across 354 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,120 Speaker 1: the United States at this time, Allenberg focused a lot 355 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: of his ire at Richard Butler, the Idaho based leader 356 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: of the Aryan Nations and a spiritual leader of the 357 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: white supremacist movement in America. 358 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 14: He always wanted to interview Richard Butler, and Richard Butler 359 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 14: worried me because Allen would humiliate this man, completely humiliate 360 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 14: Richard Butler. And we booked him two times, if I 361 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 14: can remember. I wish I had tapes of him. But 362 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 14: I talked to him afterwards and I just said, I'm 363 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 14: not sure we should do this anymore. I'm scared for 364 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 14: your safety. 365 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: Richard Butler, an organization similar to his, preached the emergence 366 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: of a white Christian ethno state, and the central scripture 367 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: in this white supremacist movement was a book called the 368 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: Turner Diaries. 369 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 7: There are ideas for this revolution came from a very, 370 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 7: very only racist, anti Semitic novel called The Turner Diaries, 371 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 7: published in nineteen seventy eight by a man named William 372 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 7: Pierce had a pseudonym, but that was his actual name. 373 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 7: In the novel it which is a very blood soaked 374 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 7: piece of writing, very disturbing piece of writing. He talks 375 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 7: about in a fictional sense, this group, the Order, comes 376 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 7: together and they decide to cleanse the United States essentially 377 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 7: of minorities, feminist liberals, liberal judges, their whole enemies list, 378 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 7: which includes about sixty million people. They start to carry 379 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 7: this out, they have something called the Day of the Rope, 380 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 7: where a lot of people get killed, hung, otherwise eliminated, 381 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 7: and then of course they have their white power Revolution. 382 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 7: One of the people who also studied The Turner Diaries 383 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 7: and who sold that book at gun shows around the 384 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 7: Midwest in the early nineties was an ex soldier named 385 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 7: Timothy McVeigh. One of the chapters in the book the 386 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 7: novel is about the members of the Order getting a truck, 387 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:19,120 Speaker 7: filling it full of explosives, going to a federal building, 388 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 7: partying it in front of a federal building and at 389 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 7: nine am in the morning detonating the explosives in the truck. 390 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 7: As well know, on April nineteenth, nineteen ninety five, Timothy 391 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 7: McVeigh drove a truck filled with explosives and parked in 392 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 7: front of the Mirror Building in Oklahoma City and killed 393 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 7: one hundred and sixty eight men, women, and children. 394 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: Allen Berg didn't want to platform white supremacists. The whole 395 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: concept of platforming someone didn't even exist yet. He invited 396 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: these racist ideologues onto his show for one reason, to 397 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 1: publicly humiliate them. And he was good at it and 398 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 1: took particular joy in it. 399 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 4: He loved it because his politics and his life was 400 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 4: to dispel that, and he took him on and beat 401 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 4: him up. He did, but he didn't beat him up 402 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 4: like when we're dealing with the guy who ran the 403 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 4: Primrose Cattleman's Gazette, who printed the protocols of the Elders' 404 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 4: el You've. 405 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: Probably never heard of the Primrose and Cattleman's Gazette. It 406 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: was a small publication for American farmers, and it is 407 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: kind of ironic that Burke discovered the publication at a 408 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: major agricultural trade show in Denver. You see Denver was 409 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,640 Speaker 1: still a major center for that industry at the time, 410 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: so much so that KOI included farmers' reports in its broadcasts. 411 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: Every day. 412 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 9: It is a closed grain report for Monday, November the 413 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 9: second he made the weak drows that come to the 414 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 9: elevator Graine once Bent lowered the five sens power, mostly 415 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 9: through the three cents per light farm offering lower brah 416 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 9: answers grape week growver these dollars and continued to the 417 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 9: text Boat Inquire, added Sprank. 418 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: Alan loved to jab at the farm Reporter on his 419 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: way in or out of the studio, and he'd go 420 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,959 Speaker 1: to cattle and agriculture shows for another opportunity to get 421 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: a laugh. But burg wasn't laughing when he discovered the 422 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: Primrose and Cattleman's Gazette at a trade show and saw 423 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: that its editorial content included excerpts from the Protocols of 424 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: the Elders of Zion, a text dating back to nineteen 425 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: oh three that outlines an anti Semitic conspiracy theory. The 426 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: publication also ran ads for the United States Marine Corps. 427 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: Burke took the issue to a friend of his US representative, 428 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 1: Patricia Schroeder, who served on the House Armed Services Committee. 429 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: Schroeder was stunned by the United States government's financial support 430 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 1: of the publication, and it wasn't long before the ads 431 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 1: were pulled. It was one thing to verbally abuse and 432 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: publicly humiliate racists on the radio, but depriving white souprise 433 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: of their revenue stream took the battle to a whole 434 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 1: new level. And the severity of that battle was most 435 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: apparent when a man named Fred Wilkins stormed into the 436 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: KOA studios, walked right up to Alan Berg and threatened 437 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: to kill him. 438 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 4: That guy that was that came into the studio, Fred Wilkins. 439 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 4: Fred Wilkins, Yeah, Fred Wilkins came into the studio, and 440 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 4: I'm hard to believe. I'm in a bar with a 441 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,120 Speaker 4: guy named Charlie Martin and the light beer guy comes 442 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 4: in and says they just tried to co Alan And 443 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 4: I was in the car down there and was cop 444 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 4: cars in the street and everything, and I went in. 445 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 4: He said it was because Fred Wilkins was a real threat. 446 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: What had started out as an entertainment had escalated into 447 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: an all out battle against a growing and very dangerous force. 448 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: Alan Berg rarely, if ever addressed the possibility of retribution, 449 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: but like his interview on sixty Minutes, the few times 450 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,880 Speaker 1: he did bring it up on the air were both 451 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: dark and and lighthearted. 452 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 3: I appreciate your call. Why we're coming back for our 453 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 3: final segment of the show. After check got the bullet holes. 454 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: In the door jokes aside, there was no way Alan 455 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: was going to back down, and the mere suggestion that 456 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: he stopped having these people on his show elicited a 457 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 1: very strong response. 458 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 12: He was appalled. 459 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 14: I wouldn't even say that at well, he said, are 460 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 14: you serious? You don't want me to do this? Because 461 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 14: so I'm supposed to shut up because of this man. 462 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 14: We're gonna let fear stop me from doing these interviews. 463 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 14: We're gonna let fear. 464 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 15: Not I remember in. 465 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 14: Saying Susan, I said, you're just humiliating him. Alan, it's horrible. 466 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 14: This guy is crazy. He's crazy. And he said, well, 467 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,239 Speaker 14: that's what the audience needs to hear, is they need 468 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 14: to hear what you're hearing over and over and over 469 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 14: again to make them realize that these insane sex exist 470 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 14: out there and they need to be exposed and they 471 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 14: need to be stopped. 472 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 3: Maybe you play taps on my old shows on the 473 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 3: weekends when I'm not in the air, to make yourself 474 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 3: further miserable. All that would indicate to me if you 475 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 3: really thought I was such a terrible broadcaster, you really 476 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 3: are a masochist. I don't stay tuned into anything I 477 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 3: don't like. Never, no way on earth. You really have 478 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 3: a problem, Yes, I do. 479 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 14: I do. 480 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 5: I agree with that. 481 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 3: Well, you've established now maybe we could find a cure 482 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 3: for you. Well, if you like the name of a doctor, 483 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 3: would like to come to my common Sense counseling program, 484 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 3: which I'm starting, Maybe you'd like to do that. 485 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 5: No, I don't think. 486 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 3: Well, possibly I can help you through this grief that 487 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 3: you're experiencing. I'm wait, what is the point? You are 488 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 3: trying to make a point that I bring grief to 489 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 3: every one three hundred and sixty five days a year. 490 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 3: I think on a pole basis, you'd find it to 491 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,479 Speaker 3: be quite the contrary. But why do you listen if 492 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 3: I bring you grief? 493 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,400 Speaker 5: I don't down. I don't, Oh, darling, I don't. 494 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 3: Think you miss them in my show. In the last 495 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 3: seven years I've been in the business, You're always there 496 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 3: and you always know what I've done. It's an amazing 497 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 3: thing for a lady who says, God, you make me miserable. 498 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 5: I'm waiting. 499 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 3: You remind me of the lady. Oh you're waiting for 500 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 3: a program to come on. Why would you turn here? 501 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 3: Why there are thirty four of the radio stations in 502 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 3: this time? Why turn here? If I make you miserable, 503 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 3: you don't make you? Guys, what a hypocrites? You're making 504 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 3: yourself right on this very conversation, I feel sor right. 505 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 3: You made an other full of yourself. You have no 506 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 3: credibility whatsoever? You dig what I do? 507 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 2: You have a need. 508 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 3: Unfortunately, you have no sense of humor. That's why you 509 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 3: can't ever enjoy this show, and that's why you're a loser. 510 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 3: As all people have no sense of humor, and you 511 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,120 Speaker 3: are categorically one of them. 512 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: Bye, things were coming to a head, and alan Berg's 513 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 1: vitriolic exchanges on the air were suddenly posing a very 514 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: real threat to his personal safety. But even with the 515 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 1: death threats, even with alan Berg's occasional references to his 516 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: own murder, no one could have ever imagined what would 517 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: happen in June of nineteen eighty four. Live Wire is 518 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Podcasts. And Modulator Media. For more 519 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeart Podcasts, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 520 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.