1 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome back to another brand new episode 2 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: of You Need Therapy. My name is Cat and I 3 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: am the host, and you know, as always, I'm so 4 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: glad you're here. Whether this is your first episode or 5 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: if you've been with us all along, just really glad 6 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: you're here. Today. We have a great episode and I'm 7 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,279 Speaker 1: super excited and pumped and all the things about not 8 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: only the topic but the person that is here talking 9 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: to us. So today I'm gonna make this short because 10 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: the episode is you know, has a lot of stuff 11 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: and I want to keep your attention. So this episode 12 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: is all about love addiction. And we've talked about it 13 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 1: before on the show, and we've talked about addiction before. 14 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 1: We've talked about a lot of the things that have 15 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: to do with this stuff, but we are dedicating today's 16 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: episode to love addiction, the why, the what, the how 17 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: what do we do with it? I think as some 18 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: people have done some attachment work after they have listened 19 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: to some of the episodes on here, they have probably 20 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: realized that they're struggling with some of these things, um 21 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: that we're going to talk about. And so now we're 22 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: giving you some language and just some info to help. 23 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: As always, I want to say, this is not therapy. 24 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: This is just us talking about the brain, the nervous system, 25 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: our attachment psychology. It's talking about the world of therapy. 26 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 1: But we are not your therapist giving you therapy on 27 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: this podcast. We're just two therapist spoiler talking on a podcast. Okay, 28 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: so the guest, So today, I have Melanie Reese here 29 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,759 Speaker 1: and she is a licensed marriage and family therapist and 30 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 1: she's so good. She works about two blocks down from 31 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: me on Music Row in Nashville, and she is so 32 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: good at what she does. So she owns Trauma Therapy 33 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: of Nashville, and like I said, it's on Music Row. 34 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: And she's also a certified clinical trauma professional. She is 35 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: certified in a m d R and brain spotting and 36 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: all of the good things. And she's also somebody who 37 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: can supervise other therapists working towards their licensure. So she 38 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: is like a helper to the therapists, if that makes 39 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 1: any sense. So you have to have like a certain 40 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: level of knowledge and experience to be able to do that, 41 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: and she has it. And she's just really cool because 42 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 1: she doesn't just focus on the brain. Um. She focuses 43 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: on the brain and the body, which I really appreciate 44 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: that about her. So all that to say, she's awesome, 45 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 1: and she is an expert in this topic in this 46 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: field of our field, and I'm really grateful for her 47 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: taking the time to come walk over to our office 48 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: and sit down and talk to me. So you're gonna 49 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: love her. If you want to find more about her, 50 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: then we say this at the end, but I want 51 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,519 Speaker 1: to just shout out this now. You can find her 52 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 1: on Instagram at Trauma Therapy Nashville, like literally, that's a 53 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: Trauma Therapy Nashville. And if you are somebody that here's 54 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: of what Melanie is talking about and really want to 55 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: gravitate towards her, and if you live in in Tennessee 56 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: and you want to work with her, you can find 57 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: her at Trauma Therapy Nashville dot com. And then if 58 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: you're somebody who just wants to find out more about 59 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 1: her and learn more from her, you can follow her 60 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: on Instagram at at Trauma Therapy Nashville super easy. Like 61 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: I said, she's awesome, and I think that you guys 62 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: are going to love everything that happens in this episode. 63 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: So thank you Melanie, and thank you guys for listening, 64 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: and I will see you guys on Wednesday for couch Talks. 65 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: Welcome back, guys. I'm a very special guest here. Her 66 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: name is Melanie. Hi, Hi, thank you, And she is 67 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: actually also a therapist, so you're getting to therapists at once, 68 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: which is nice and might feel a little crazy. And 69 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: today we are going to talk about something we've kind 70 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: of talked about before, but not in depth in a 71 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: really long time, and that is love addiction. So I 72 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: want to ask you, guys, if anybody has ever heard 73 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: of that, if you haven't listened to any of the 74 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: stuff that we've done about it before, because I think 75 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: some people will probably be like, yes, oh my gosh, 76 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: because it seems like to me, it's like trendy. Does 77 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: that feel okay to say it's becoming more the term 78 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: ler of addiction or just the concept the concept probably 79 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: the concept I thought we in mental health you were 80 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: surrounded about all the time, so things get normalized pretty quickly. 81 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: But then someone that's just not too familiar with that 82 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: world or concepts of stuff, then they're like, what is that? Yeah, 83 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: I mean addicted to love? Right? Yeah? Right? And I 84 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: will say when I started as an intern in a 85 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: treatment center. We had a whole program that was dedicated 86 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: to sex and love addiction, and when they drove me 87 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: past that house, I literally was like, what what do 88 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: you do there? What is that? It was so foreign 89 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: to me. Now this was two thousand thirteen, so it's 90 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 1: a long time ago, and I think even in the 91 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: field that was not as big of a thing. So 92 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: we're going to talk all about it today. We're gonna 93 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 1: have about what it is, where it comes from, how 94 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 1: you know, if you're struggling with it, what to do, 95 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: all the things. And before we really get into it, 96 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: I want to put another disclaimer out there that anything 97 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 1: that you are like, oh my gosh, that's me or 98 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: feels triggering. And I don't mean triggering in the way 99 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: that like, oh I need to go like cope with 100 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: my uncomfortable feelings, but triggering is like, oh, that feels 101 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: like something that I've been dealing with. That's the point 102 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: of this episode to kind of bring light to some 103 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: things and kind of gives them awareness. But there's work 104 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 1: to do after that. So that's a long winded way 105 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: for me to say, this is not therapy. Even though 106 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: you are hearing to therapists. Okay, so how would you 107 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: define love addiction? How would you describe it to somebody, 108 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: to somebody who had never heard of it like me 109 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: and two thirteen that was like, what the term love addiction? 110 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 1: It can be really triggering for people because it just 111 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: sounds so jarring or unfamiliar. But it looks like addiction 112 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: in the same way because we experienced the same kind 113 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: of stuff physically and mentally. You know, when you become 114 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: addicted to substance or any other behavior, we get a 115 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: withdrawal pattern from it um a reason, but we're using 116 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: it for self soothing and coping with things that are 117 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: have a deeper underlying meaning to it. And so you 118 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 1: can have physical Fe've ever withdrawn from a relationship that 119 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: was so painful your body or hurt, you know, it 120 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: craves the same thing, you know, like we would with 121 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: addicted to an actual substance. Well, I'm glad you said 122 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: that because a lot of people are probably like, yes, 123 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: I know that in some of my most painful breakups, 124 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: I felt like like I was sick, like literally felt sick. Yeah, well, 125 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: this is kind of just bringing in more of a 126 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: concept of how I view things and why This stuff 127 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: makes so much sense to me and the clients that 128 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 1: I work with, is our emotions are like a natural 129 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: neurological response for every thought and experience we have. We 130 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: have emotional reactions in our nervous system, our nervous system 131 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: in our body, like everything is all the whole thing. 132 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: That's why we experience. We get nervous, our stomachal hurt. 133 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: I work with chronic pain, so I see all kinds 134 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: of body responses. It's a lot of times a response 135 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: to what we've experienced. Our thoughts have physical reactions, and 136 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: so by just that concept alone, it makes sense that 137 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: when we are feeling a lot of emotional pain, our 138 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: body can experience it in the same ways. When you're 139 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: looking at addiction, like with substances I was rating the 140 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,559 Speaker 1: other day, you have a substance being introduced to your body, 141 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: and that's why we have reactions to anything. But when 142 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: you're looking at substance use, that's why we build a tolerance. 143 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: Your body starts and learning how to live like that 144 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: with that as a part of its system. That's why 145 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: then people get sick when they stop when they've been 146 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: drinking for so long. Their body is having that withdrawal 147 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: and starting to shut down. So when you're looking at 148 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: love addiction to kind of go back and just sitting 149 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: quiet the elevator pitch. But yeah, the feelings you get. 150 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: Think about when you when you have a crush on 151 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: somebody or a new relationship starting and you get that 152 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: text message get the better flied in your stomach and 153 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: just that's a chemical dope may be released in your brain. 154 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: It's that feel good, happy love thing. That's what is 155 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: working in the system. And in the same way, we 156 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: keep trying to get more when we're in like active 157 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: substance use with love. And I know we'll get into 158 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: some of the deeper roots of that, but it's that's 159 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: what we keep trying to go back to. We want 160 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: that hit. It's a high, that text message, that small 161 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: sweet comment that comes very rarely, or even just being 162 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: in the presence. That's the feeling that we're keep that 163 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: we're addicted to. I'm not sure that I quite love 164 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: the term love addiction, because love isn't what we're experiencing. 165 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: It's what we're trying to get. But it's more of 166 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: repeated trauma. You know, we've talked about trauma bonding that 167 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: sort of stuff and that that's part of that cycle. 168 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: It's like we're more our body got addicted and wired 169 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: in a way that it needs the trauma because it's 170 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: a false sense of connection and love and self soothing 171 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: and all those things. One of the things that you 172 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 1: said in the beginning of year long of It or 173 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: Is was people get turned off by that. And I 174 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: have experienced that with clients, and I'm just going to 175 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: assume that you have that. When you introduced that concept 176 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: to somebody, it's like not me, no, yeah, So I 177 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: will self disclose. This is something I dealt with in 178 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: my you know, twenties. Well, I was dealing with it 179 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: for a long time, but then became aware of it 180 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: when I started doing my own work in my twenties. 181 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: And the first time my therapist said that to me, 182 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: I was like mmmmmmmmmm. And that was probably two more 183 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: months went by when I was like, Okay, maybe we're 184 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: onto something here. I'll read the book that she was suggesting. 185 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: And when I read that, I just bawled the whole 186 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: time every time I sat down to read it. But 187 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: I got excited to be doing that because I knew 188 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: I felt like I was reading the key to myself. Yeah, 189 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: I was like, man, this they could have just written 190 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 1: it for me, and it was everything was like hitting 191 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: home and I was like why did Why could I? 192 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: Because I was going through a divorce and it was like, 193 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: why am I finding this now and not before? And 194 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: I think the best response that my therapist said was, 195 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 1: you don't know that he would have done anything different, 196 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: that it would have looked different. On the other side, 197 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: you might have looked different and it could have gone differently, 198 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 1: but you don't know. So spending time on that wasn't 199 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: worth Yeah, my energy. But then it was more of 200 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,079 Speaker 1: a I couldn't wait to keep reading and learning all 201 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,959 Speaker 1: about it because it was helping me become aware of 202 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: why I was doing things the way I did and 203 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: why I was feeling the way I was feeling. And 204 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: then it definitely helped moving forward and how I engaged 205 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: in relationships, because I think it's important. This isn't just 206 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: about how we are in romantic relationships, it's how we 207 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: are all of our relationships co workers, friends, family, everything. 208 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: I think part of the initial like, oh no, that's 209 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 1: not me one. Two, that's rude for you to say that. Three, 210 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,959 Speaker 1: I'm getting a new therapist, Like, I think the part 211 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: of that initial like that can't be me is because 212 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,319 Speaker 1: of the term love addiction, because I think it was 213 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: called something else. People would be like, oh, because nobody 214 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: has any problems when I talk about attachment theory with them, 215 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, it looks like you this might 216 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: be where you lean and let's look at that. But 217 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: as soon as you tap, you slap on some kind 218 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: of addiction label. It's like, I can't do that. No, yeah, 219 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: shut up, Like, don't talk. You don't know you're talking about. 220 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: And I think that that it's sad because and it 221 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: feels shameful and for people. I think that one if 222 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: anybody hasn't listened to the Addiction episode, I did go 223 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: listen to that because one of the hopes in me 224 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: putting it out there was to kind of take some 225 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: of the shame and the like ickiness away from anybody 226 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: who struggles with addiction. Because people who identify as addicts 227 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: aren't bad people. They're responding to like a very broken world, 228 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: or they're responding to trauma, or they're they're doing the 229 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: best they can. It's just like not working very well anymore, 230 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: and that's what you're saying with this too, it's like 231 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: this these hits that we're going after it, that's a 232 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: response to trauma and it's a way to self soothe. 233 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: It does make you a bad person to want to 234 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: feel good, but we demonize that when we use that 235 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: term addiction. It's just got a bad reputation. Well, I'll 236 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: tell clients to when you know the shame and stuff 237 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 1: it's getting in the way from us even trying to 238 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: take a look at stuff. And I try to name 239 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: it when I you know, hear clients starting to talk 240 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: about it. But it's when we weren't provided the connection 241 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: or care, or safety or the example of how to 242 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: do that get our own needs met when we're younger, 243 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: it's not okay, we turn eighteen and now we know 244 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: how to do it. So when I look at all 245 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: these things we do to try to deal with just 246 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: life substance, you know, all kinds of addiction and just 247 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: maladaptive behaviors, I try to name it as man, you 248 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: really know how to try to get your needs met, 249 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: It's just not the healthiest way. Let's figure out something else. 250 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: And so that is a really good reframe. I would 251 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:56,839 Speaker 1: talk about this sometimes with clients because it can be 252 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: hard to hear to say we're having some struggles with 253 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: really sationship withdrawal. Let's talk about why, and that can 254 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: be a really helpful way to kind of think of it. 255 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: But I just I would encourage people when they start 256 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: to feel that shame because they've done something that wasn't helpful. 257 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: I figured out a way to try to help and 258 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: cope and self soothe myselfish just not healthy. What might 259 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: there be that I could do different? If you end 260 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 1: a relationship and it was with somebody you loved and 261 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 1: you didn't want the relationship, even if you didn't want 262 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 1: the relationship to end, you can still feel a lot 263 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: of pain. So one separates somebody from normal human feelings 264 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: and emotions and relationships, and what constitutes some kind of 265 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: lean towards a love addiction. That's a great question, um, 266 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: because it's appropriate for us to feel sad and miss 267 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: people in relationships and just to be sad they ended 268 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: because it was such a part of you know, our 269 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: life or who we are. But then when it goes 270 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: into being a struggle as we're assigning meaning to ourselves 271 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:59,079 Speaker 1: and our value as a result of this person leaving 272 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: a long time ago. I can't remember who said it 273 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: to me or where I read it. But as adults 274 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 1: we tend to say I'm abandoned. I was abandoned. But 275 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: as an adult, you can't be abandoned. You were left. 276 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: But when we frame it from a childhood wound, because 277 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: children can get abandoned. They don't know how to care 278 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: for themselves, so when they're abandoned by a parent, it's abandoned. 279 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: But as an adult we're still experiencing that way, but 280 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: it's just someone left their relationship. So when it's still 281 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: framed with all of that rooted in abandonment from a 282 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: childhood wound, I'm always digging into the why, you know, 283 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: what's at the root of this, And so when that 284 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: stuff is still not resolved, that's what will experience it 285 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: as an abandonment instead of this relationship ended or this 286 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: person left, and we can be sad that they left, 287 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: we could have not wanted them to have left, but 288 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: it's not assigning things a meaning to us our value 289 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: as a result of it. And then when the addiction 290 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: kicks in, what does the behavior look like? Oh, the 291 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: addiction was already going in their relationship. Okay, yeah, that 292 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: already start. Did that's you know, our attachments formed by 293 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: the time we're like, I think it's like ten months 294 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,359 Speaker 1: to a year old, and then they just get strengthened 295 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: by everything we experience from there. Somebody who struggles with 296 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: love addiction, what does their behavior in relationships outside of 297 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: relationships and attempt to get relationship? What is their got 298 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: to um? So here are some qualities of essay our 299 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: addict brain. An exaggerated sense of responsibility for others actions, 300 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: tendency to do more than necessary on a regular basis, 301 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: I tendence to do become hurt when people don't recognize 302 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: their efforts, and unhealthy dependence on relationships. An extreme need 303 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: for approval or recognition, feeling guilt when being assertive, a 304 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: compelling need for control, a lack of trust in self 305 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: and or others, fear of being abandoned or alone, difficulty 306 00:15:55,640 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: identifying feelings, problems with intimacy and boundaries, and difficulty making decisions. 307 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: So those are qualities. It's not just in whether we're 308 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: in a relationship or out of a relationship. If we're 309 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: not in a relationship, then that compulsion can transfer to 310 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: a sex, addiction or substances. Another type of addiction because 311 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: we're trying to get a need met, and so sometimes 312 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: when we're in long term relationships then we may already 313 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: start looking for another relationship before we in this it's 314 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: common that we're going from relationship to relationship because we're 315 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: constantly having to have a source of to get that need. 316 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: And when we're not, then we're going somewhere else for it. 317 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: So when year there's no relationship, what are we doing? Um, 318 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: do you get one or doing another? Yes, a lot 319 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: of our mental energy goes to daydreaming and thinking about 320 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: like our next relationship, how are we going to find it? 321 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: The next person? And our self worth is always tied 322 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: to this, and so when we can't get it, then 323 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: then we'll bring in some other addictive behaviors, which is 324 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: where cross addictions come in, which I don't know that 325 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: we've really talked about a lot, but I kind of 326 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: call this like the whackable of an addiction because we 327 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,360 Speaker 1: all have like a start gate when it comes to that. 328 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: And again, what is being said, it's all coming from 329 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 1: a root of your attachment wounds and and finding a 330 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: way to heal that and reorganize that in a way 331 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: that sometimes kind of works, or you think it works 332 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: within long term, it's really not working for you. But 333 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: we don't realize that. The whackable addiction stuff comes in 334 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 1: and we engage in cross addictions when one addiction is 335 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: not available, or maybe we like find sobriety from one 336 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: of it or one part of it, or we there 337 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 1: isn't a relationship available, so we go to something else 338 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: to get that same fix. It might look differently, and 339 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people will beg the question, well, 340 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 1: isn't this better than that? Yeah, I mean some things 341 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: may be better than the other. And that's what we're 342 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 1: looking at. It's not about how bad is something that 343 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: I'm doing. You know, when you look at exercise addiction, 344 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: food addiction, we need to exercise and food is healthy 345 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: for us to eat. But it's when you're looking at 346 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: your relationship to it. Why we're doing the behaviors. We 347 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: need to do what's it doing to motivate it? Out 348 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: of a self medicative coping thing. The behaviors were engaging 349 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: and getting in the way. That's everyal hallmark of this 350 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: is that we we continue to do maladaptive behaviors and 351 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 1: we're aware of it. The coster the desire for the 352 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: need to get met. That doesn't really matter the pain 353 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: that it's causing. One question that came up in my 354 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: head is what do you think about dating apps and 355 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: their assistance in helping those who struggle with this engage 356 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: in their addictive process, because like just disclosure, I talk 357 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: about dating apps with like a lot of clients, and 358 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,199 Speaker 1: it is a fight of like do I do this? 359 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: Do I not do this? Do I do this? Do 360 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: I not do this? Is it's good for me? Is 361 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: it's bad for me? There's not a one size fits all. 362 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 1: We're not going to answer that question, but I wonder 363 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: what you think about like dating apps in their addition 364 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: to the availability of being able to engage in the 365 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: addition Oh well, I mean, just like getting a like 366 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: on an Instagram post, getting a like or a match 367 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 1: with the potential partner, it's another form of getting that 368 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: that hit also. And this is something I've noticed. I mean, 369 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 1: I've been on dating apps and the swiping. It's it 370 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: keeps a hope alive that we're putting ourselves out there, 371 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: and you know, we get lots of messages put yourself 372 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: out there and living in this age of pandemic it's 373 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 1: it's very hard to meet people. So it's it's a 374 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: really double edged sword there because it can be really 375 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: helpful because we men meet people we've never met before, 376 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 1: but when we're approaching and again it's the why why 377 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 1: are we wanting to meet somebody? Is it because my 378 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 1: life is in a great place and I have room 379 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 1: for that and feel like I can give as much 380 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: as I want to receive, or is it I'm not 381 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: okay and I don't feel comfortable and I feel bad 382 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 1: about myself because I don't have a partner. We get 383 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: called up in the show I'm forty that it's taken 384 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: a lot of work mentally to to get to where 385 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: it's like, you know, whenever I was dealing with this 386 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 1: back in my twenties, it was like all right, you know, 387 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: I got a divorce and I was like, I have 388 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: a blank slate here. I really can create what I want. 389 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: And I was in this process of learning how all 390 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: this worked, and then it was so it was some 391 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: time set aside to not give my energy to that 392 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,360 Speaker 1: because I knew I couldn't do it the way I 393 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: had done it my whole life, and so learning how 394 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: did I want to be in a relationship. What type 395 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: of relationship do I want? And that's doing a lot 396 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: of the work because this trauma work is involved in 397 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff, you know, attachment. Learning about all 398 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 1: that helps you start to recognize when someone healthy is 399 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: standing in front of you and someone who hasn't quite 400 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: done the type of work you know needed, which is 401 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: a good point to make. It's another question I get 402 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: all the time, how do I know? How do I 403 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 1: know if this person is healthy? How do I know 404 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: if it's a flag? How do I know? And is 405 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: there a response for that or is that a different 406 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 1: response for anybody who's asking, like how would you say 407 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 1: you can tell if somebody is a healthy person for 408 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: you to engage in or not. That's a good question. 409 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: It can't some of it's going to be different. I 410 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: tend to when, you know, because I have clients, so 411 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 1: I ask that question, and it's the goal is not 412 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 1: to find this perfectly healthy person walking around. I don't 413 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 1: think that necessarily exists. It's like what percentage of the time, um, 414 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: are they engaging in healthy things? And so when you're 415 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: looking at someone in front of you, I'm not going 416 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: to expect them to just be this picture of health. 417 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: But what's their willingness and openness to have feedback on 418 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: things in a relationship and to talk through things. Are 419 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: they emotionally shut down and not engaging? Did they inquire 420 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: those things for me? You want someone if if you're 421 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: you know, deal with dislove adtic stuff, your attention and everything, 422 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 1: You'll skip work, you will not do things for you 423 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: in order to spend time and be around this person. 424 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,360 Speaker 1: And you want to be with a healthy person. If 425 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: you're in a relationship and you see someone doing that, 426 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: the healthy responses you need time to yourself. Go take 427 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 1: some time, Go spend time with your friends, build those relationships. 428 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,640 Speaker 1: You can put that person you're in a relationship with 429 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 1: on a pedestal and they you just your world is 430 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: revolving around them. And that's one reason it hurts so 431 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 1: bad when that relationships because there's nothing on the pedalstal anymore. 432 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: You know, something that I will say a lot of 433 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 1: times and I think this was true for me, might 434 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: still be true for me. Is that one way that 435 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,679 Speaker 1: I encourage people to like use a meter of this 436 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 1: is something somebody that I maybe should lean into and 437 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: see if this is somebody I want to date or 438 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: not in the beginning of a recovery process from a 439 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 1: love addiction type place, you're probably gonna be bored with 440 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: healthy people. Yes, absolutely, Yes, So there's no chase there 441 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: there and available, and that's either going to feel scary 442 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,199 Speaker 1: and make you avoid it or when you try to 443 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: push into it, they're not going to engage in those 444 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: you know, codependency type behaviors, and it looks boring versus 445 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: the person. That's a chase that we constantly we're used 446 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: to thinking and going after those hits. But when it's 447 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: right there, available, and that's a big part of when 448 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: you're looking at I think love addiction, there's uh they 449 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: call it the love addict or the love avoidance and 450 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 1: those two dynamics. It's like the attachment styles are different 451 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 1: for those two people. And it's what happens is when 452 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: we then engage with a person like two avoidance aren't 453 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: gonna end up together because neither one of them are 454 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: gonna care enough to put into the relationship that's gonna 455 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: last that long. Will you describe both of those people? Yeah, 456 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: and it will pull in like attachment stuff because that's 457 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff's rooted in attachment and childhood trauma. 458 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: But like if you're looking at an anxious attached person 459 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: and the avoidant, they both desire intimacy and connection in 460 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: a relationship. It's their attachment styles are determining their responses 461 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: to closeness. They both fear the abandonment, are being left, 462 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: and so a person with an anxious attachment they constantly 463 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 1: they're they're wanting to Basically, we're trying to rewrite our 464 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: relationships in the past. So if we didn't have connection 465 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: with a primary caregiver and that we didn't get our 466 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: needs met, we are constantly then trying to if I 467 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: can make this relationship work, I've then rewritten my story 468 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: and now I'm loved. You know, It's just difficult when 469 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 1: we're not aware of kind of how this stuff is 470 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: going on, because at the closeness and avoidant is going 471 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 1: to pull away. It's gonna feel smothering, or it's gonna 472 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: feel too much and overwhelming. They'll get flooded, and so 473 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: they're they're not showing up they pull away. That could 474 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,360 Speaker 1: be they don't text as often. You know, at the beginning, 475 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: it's like we were texting every day more than that 476 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 1: all day long. And now I didn't get a good 477 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: morning text that can trigger something, right, And I think 478 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: that the part that's confusing is because somebody who is 479 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: avoidant in the beginning of a relationship, when there's no 480 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: like there's not much pressure and there's not as much 481 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: of a commitment and there's not as much of an 482 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: expectation for them to be there, they can show up 483 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: and they can text every day and they can be 484 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: that like you can feel that that's the honeymoon part 485 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 1: of a relationship, and then all of a sudden they 486 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: feel some responsibility in the relationship or they feel like 487 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: they're intimacy, their closeness you know, starts building. That's when 488 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 1: they can have some of that. Well, someone that isn't 489 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: aware of their attachment being anxious, that's gonna they're gonna 490 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: read that and it's gonna feel personal to them, that 491 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: it has something to do with them, they're worth their value, 492 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: and that they are going to look to what I 493 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 1: need to change to be different in order for this 494 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: person to stay. So that's why we put so much 495 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: in front of us that we launched into the anxious behaviors, 496 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: which is texting a million times, calling a million times, 497 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: when we haven't had a response in thirty minutes. Those 498 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,679 Speaker 1: types of things, that's the reach out and let me 499 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: pull closer. I gotta get my close into this relationship 500 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: before I lose it, because that's the fear setting, and 501 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: that's how they respond. That then triggers the avoidant to 502 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: be like okay, getting even worse. I gotta, I gotta 503 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,479 Speaker 1: get out of here. And it's just a repeated pattern. 504 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 1: But I always say, that's each other's stuff engaging. When 505 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 1: you move more into what we call secure attachment, we've 506 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: taken the time. It's it's good to take relationships slow 507 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: so you get to learn this stuff. And I think 508 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 1: having conversations at the beginning, what's your attachment style, you know, 509 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 1: and learning that about each other, because then you start 510 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: to read in that secure place you read a pull 511 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: away of I now know this is more of a 512 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: response to their fear of closeness. How can I help 513 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: them stay here in the middle with me and let 514 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: them know this is an okay relationship and safe to 515 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: be in and an avoidant knowing and attachments behaviors, It's like, okay, 516 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: I know this, she gets anxious. I hate saying he 517 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: or she, but My partner gets anxious when they don't 518 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: hear from me. So if you get a text from 519 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 1: your partner that's anxious and you know you can't talk 520 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: for the afternoon, then it's you get to annoy each others. 521 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: I know I can shoot him a text and say hey, 522 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: I got your text. Um, I'll be able to talk 523 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: in a few hours. That helps the anxious persons calm 524 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: down and be able to stay in that middle zone 525 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: of secure attached. So you're you're reading behaviors is not personal, 526 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: but this is more their response to something and how 527 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: do you help them lower that that fear response. One 528 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: thing that I like that you touched on is like, 529 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: in healthy relationships there is no rush, and healthy relationships 530 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: we can take our time, and healthy relationships intimacy is 531 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: built through information and time, not just like let me 532 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: tell you my life story and now we're attached forever. Well, 533 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: safety in relationship is built upon repeated experiences. We get 534 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: to that way. And I was even I was talking 535 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: to one of my best girlfriends the other day. We'd 536 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: had a hard conversation about something and we you know, 537 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: we talk all day every day too, And now the 538 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: next morning, I was like oh, I haven't heard from her. 539 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: My first response because I think I'll always have an 540 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: anxious brain. It's just becoming so aware of how you 541 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: engage in that. My first thought was like, I hope 542 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: she's not upset with me. But then my next thought was, 543 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: I've had so many experiences with this person that shows 544 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: me that it's okay. If she's upset with me, we'll 545 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: be fine. She's not going to leave and we can 546 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: have a conversation about it. And I know that's not 547 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,439 Speaker 1: how she does things. So I had safety to not, 548 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,679 Speaker 1: you know, call are you okay, Orda dada, you know, 549 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 1: and to just let her you know. When we saw 550 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: each other, we talked and and I was like, I 551 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: just want to say thank you. I love that I've 552 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: had enough, you know, safety created by experiences with you 553 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: that I noticed I didn't have to worry that you're 554 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: angry with me. There's a codependency aspect in that too, 555 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: which also go listen to the episode if you haven't. 556 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: But a lot of times all here and I've felt this, 557 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: I've totally felt this before in relationships were like I 558 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: don't want to bring that up, or I don't want 559 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: to talk about that. Or I don't want to have 560 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: that conversation because I'm afraid if I do, they'll leave me, 561 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: So then I don't, and then I'm sitting there either 562 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: building a resentment or becoming like a shell of a 563 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: human or building more anxiety. And in a healthy relationship, 564 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: one conversation where you're asking for a need to be 565 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: met or you're having a hard but in a healthy relationship, 566 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: you need to have an ability to have hard conversations 567 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: without a fear that if I have this one conversation, 568 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: it's all going to be over and there can be 569 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: no conflict. Ever, like conflict is helpful in relationships. That's 570 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: how you learn. Always tell my clients everything we do. 571 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,239 Speaker 1: You are teaching people how to be in relationship with 572 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: you through external or internal boundary setting. Yeah, you know that. 573 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: How there's some people you're like, oh, you could say 574 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: that to that person and get away with it, but 575 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say that to her, Like they've never explicitly 576 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: said don't say this thing to me, or it's okay 577 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: to say this thing to me, but you know it. 578 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: And that's what I'm talking about, is those everyday ways 579 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: that we show up in relationships. What we're okay with 580 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: and what we allow on what we're not. We're telling 581 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: people how to be in a relationship with us. Yeah, okay, 582 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: So before we talked about the qualities of love addiction, 583 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: what we didn't talk about is what the actual behaviors 584 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: look like. We didn't say that explicitly. So I want 585 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,239 Speaker 1: to go back and have you tell us what if 586 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: somebody's like this, some of the stuff is hitting me. 587 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: These are some behaviors to really pay attention to the 588 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: actual behaviors that we do when we're in relationship and 589 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: kind of engaging in this dynamic. So it's an unrealistic 590 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: Hallmark movie view of love. Were romantic intensity, that meet 591 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: cutes and is this person the one we're mistaking that 592 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: those kinds of feelings are getting for intimacy and connection, 593 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: feeling desperate, worthless, or alone when not in a relationship. 594 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: So we kind of talked about that seeking a new 595 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: relationship while not in a relationship, So using sex as 596 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: a way to get someone interested, that's that's a big one. 597 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: Leaving a relationship once the sexual intensity and newness fades. 598 00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: That's I think we're, like you said, kind of become 599 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: is boring, pretending to be interested in activities that aren't 600 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: enjoyable as a way to keep a partner or to 601 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: um to meet someone new, which I don't know that 602 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: it's necessarily bad trst a new activity or something you know, 603 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: to be social engaged. But when we're it's really I 604 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: think at the root of that, when we're not listening 605 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: to our own needs, values, wants, that sort of thing, 606 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: we're giving that up kind of in trade for a relationship. 607 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: Relying on romantic intensity as a way to escape from 608 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: stress and other types of emotional discomfort, a sex addiction 609 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: stuff can get pulled in there, and I think that's 610 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: a lot of times when you see support groups it's 611 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: a sex and love addiction because they're very intertwined. Um, 612 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: the dynamics and the root stuff that goes on trusting 613 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 1: too much or too little, UM, so it's either all 614 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: or nothing. I know. I used to come from a 615 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: place of I'll trust you until you give me a 616 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: reason not to and now and I thought I would 617 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: kind of like flipped and just went too hard of 618 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: you have to prove that I can trust you. But 619 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: that's actually I think a health the way UM you've 620 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 1: got to find there's always a balance in in that, 621 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: but those repeated experiences, that's what letting someone that's why 622 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: we go slow and get to know how people show 623 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: up in the relationship with this so that we can 624 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: then gauge and build on that trust um so that 625 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: or either if we're the type that I'm not going 626 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: to trust at all, because that means you can get 627 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: hurt if you let yourself like someone too much. I 628 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: used to say that too, of like I trust you 629 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: until you give mirrors and not too and I thought 630 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: that was such like a sign of like I'm such 631 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: this good person. Ye. My idea of like what romance 632 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: and all that looked like was definitely from the movies 633 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: growing up. Well, and even when you use the word 634 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: the term meet you, if you don't know what that is. 635 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:44,959 Speaker 1: It made me think of have you watched to all 636 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: the Boys I've Ever loved on Netflix? Well, there's three 637 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: of them now. They're great movies, are so cute, but 638 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: the last I don't want to give too much away, 639 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: so just f y I if you haven't watched the 640 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: third one, maybe your mouths for a second. But part 641 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: of it is part of that movie is about them 642 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: having a meat cute and like them not having a 643 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: good enough meat cute for it to be like a 644 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: worthwhile relationship. And while I love that movie and I 645 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 1: want to watch more movies like that, I have to 646 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: remind myself this is a movie. Somebody wrote this to 647 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: be exactly this way, and the world doesn't work that way. 648 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: And in one of my relationships, I remember being like, 649 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 1: I just love our story of how we met. Our 650 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: story is so good of how we met, and that 651 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 1: was one of the reasons I wanted to stay in it. 652 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: And then there's other relationships, speaking up dating app that's like, 653 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: I don't want this to be my story, but like 654 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: you know, I hate that when someone puts on there 655 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: willing to lie about how we met, Like yeah, why 656 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 1: but the story that like someone, I mean, I married 657 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: my high school sweetheart. It probably would have, you know, 658 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,479 Speaker 1: the divorce would have happened sooner if we both were 659 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: paying attention. But we both were known as this couple 660 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 1: from teenage, you know, our teenagers, and I think that 661 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: was a big part of you. While we we don't 662 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: want to be someone that got divorced, you know, our 663 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: narrative to the relationship has a big power dynamic there too, 664 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: and we don't realize that a lot of times. Yeah, 665 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,360 Speaker 1: it's okay if you meet it on a dating app, Yes, absolutely, 666 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: it's also okay if your high school hearts and that about. 667 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,399 Speaker 1: But I think that, yeah, that story plays such a big, 668 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: bigger role than it should. Like it's cool if you 669 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 1: have a story that you think is cool, but it's 670 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: not necessary and it doesn't make it for a bad 671 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: relationship anyway. Okay. So also we've touched on this a 672 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 1: little bit throughout this, but we've talked about trauma, We 673 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: talked talked about attachment, and we talked about kind of 674 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 1: like around this stuff. But I want to know, like 675 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 1: from your perspective, because you are a trauma therapist, Like 676 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 1: that's like the like the me of what you love 677 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: to do is trauma work. And so from your perspective, 678 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,759 Speaker 1: what does trauma and that's a big word, have to 679 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 1: do with love, addiction and somebody being in these kinds 680 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: of relationships or behaviors. Just to preface a little bit 681 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: in defining trauma, because a lot of us think it's 682 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:06,319 Speaker 1: just the big events of sexual assault or PTSD. For veterans, 683 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,320 Speaker 1: um that tends to be what comes to mind or 684 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: going through a natural disaster. But there's all kinds of trauma. 685 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: But I really, in a short answer, it's anything that 686 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: has a lasting impact on us um emotionally, physically, psychologically, spiritually. 687 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 1: It's your past experiences that have gotten stuck and lingered 688 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: and continue to influence us in the president. You know what, 689 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,280 Speaker 1: my one of my first supervisors when I started, told 690 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 1: me how she defined it. She said, trauma is anything 691 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 1: less than nurturing. I love that. Yeah, I think that's 692 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 1: such a nice easy way to put it because it 693 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: says everything you just said. I like, it doesn't have 694 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: to be this big, t huge thing. So when you're 695 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 1: looking at attachment, the things that created that for us, 696 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 1: that's trauma stuff. Um, it's those experiences that had such 697 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: an impact that it's our makeup and ideas about ourselves 698 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: and how the world works is skewed, and those childhood traumas, 699 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 1: so it's not getting those needs met. It can be, 700 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: like we said, if you're abused as a child, that's 701 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,799 Speaker 1: going to create anything that's going to shape your relationship 702 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: to what being close in relationship and intimacy is going 703 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: to feel like. It's those things they happen way back 704 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: when our system gets wired. I forget where I was 705 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 1: reading this, but it's like I started every sentence with 706 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 1: like I was reading an article. Um. But like our 707 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 1: our nervous system, it gets wired very early, you know. 708 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: And if you're just looking at our fear center in 709 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 1: the brain, that tells us what what to be scared of. 710 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: And it's so we need it to work to tell 711 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 1: us if we're standing in front of a bear, we 712 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: need to run. But when we have those experiences as 713 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,280 Speaker 1: a child where our needs didn't get met, we didn't 714 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: attached to a parent that's supposed to care about us, 715 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: we were it could be a relationship where it's it 716 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,799 Speaker 1: gets where we're always nurturing the parent, or we just 717 00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,439 Speaker 1: had to fend for ourselves. What gets wired into our 718 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 1: system and that fear centers, it starts recognizing and because 719 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: we're constantly scanning, you know, for what's safe and what's not, 720 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: but bids for connection and closeness become it triggers this 721 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: is something to be fearful of, and so it's in 722 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 1: our wiring and so being able to resolve those I'm 723 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 1: always like, I'm always interested in the why, like why 724 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,800 Speaker 1: did you get there? Um? Not just the symptom management 725 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: of it, and we can think about I'm doing this 726 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: or how do I can I respond to this differently 727 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: or think about it differently. But when we're not like 728 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 1: acknowledging like it is a way that we've gotten wired 729 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: and we've got to then we've got to resolve the 730 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 1: reason why that got wired that way so that we 731 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: can rewire, so to speak. And so I'm thinking, I'm 732 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 1: trying to think of like ways to describe this for 733 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 1: somebody more like tangibly in relationships, but for somebody who 734 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,359 Speaker 1: in their early attachment, in their early childhood, in their 735 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,240 Speaker 1: home and wherever they grew up, if they had experiences 736 00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 1: where attempts to connect to a caregiver they felt rejection, 737 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 1: there's a highlight of this is not safe, is not good. 738 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 1: You don't want to feel this, or I'm not I'm 739 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: not worthy of it, I don't deserve it. So that's 740 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,359 Speaker 1: when we're in our adult relationships, we're trying to then 741 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: recreate that. We're trying to connect and get the messaging 742 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: that we're okay, I am loved. And that's another characteristic 743 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 1: that you know isn't necessarily listed out when you read literature, 744 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,880 Speaker 1: but do you share too much too fast when you 745 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: get in the relationships, like I'm going to tell this 746 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,399 Speaker 1: person all of my ugly stuff, and it's because if 747 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 1: they didn't stay and accept me, now I'm loved. Yes, yes, 748 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: and okay. So the this is interesting because I think 749 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 1: that you can do two things with this because some 750 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 1: people are like, well I don't. That is one way 751 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 1: of going and get fixing and rewiring. I gotta prove 752 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: that I'm I'm worthy. It's our attempt to Yes, that's 753 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: a more anxious human being. The other part, it entrenches 754 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 1: the pattern further. Yes. Yes. So the other part is 755 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: like you might have that experience and then you taught 756 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,719 Speaker 1: yourself that it is unsafe to want and it is 757 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: undsafe to be in relationship or desire people and have connections. 758 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:07,759 Speaker 1: So then you zip yourself up and that's where you 759 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 1: lean more avoidant. Where that's when like relationships, Let's say 760 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:12,959 Speaker 1: you start being in a relationship and then you start 761 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 1: feeling like that, like, oh, this person needs me, this 762 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,759 Speaker 1: person wants me. I want them. They're gonna end up 763 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: rejecting me. They're gonna they're gonna tell me that I'm unworthy, 764 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 1: just like mom, Dad, Grandma, grandpa, babies, whoever did so 765 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,880 Speaker 1: they run away. So that's that perfect picture of like 766 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,279 Speaker 1: you're gonna have the same experience, and your response to 767 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 1: take care of your need can be different, but the 768 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:40,239 Speaker 1: underlying desire is exactly the same, exactly the same. I 769 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:44,720 Speaker 1: want to avoid being rejected and I want to feel 770 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,799 Speaker 1: attached and loved. Then you know you've got the whole 771 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 1: anxious avoidance. It's like a mixed style um where you 772 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 1: can this is a smaller percent I think of the 773 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 1: population are anxious avoidant, but it can look like someone's 774 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 1: withdraw all makes us really anxious, but we're only going 775 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 1: to experience it on the inside, and so outwardly our 776 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:09,399 Speaker 1: behaviors might be that the avoiding behavior as well. So 777 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 1: it's whether that's just I'm gonna like withhold showing affection 778 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 1: or withhold like sharing of myself because we're trying to like, 779 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: we want that person to come closer all of anyway, 780 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,759 Speaker 1: when you're looking at anxious the goal is our behaviors 781 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: or then too, I want to bring this person closer. 782 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 1: So anxious avoidance going to feel that anxious. It's gonna 783 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,120 Speaker 1: trigger them on the inside. But then our external behavior 784 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 1: is going to be like, I'm gonna not share, I'm 785 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: gonna not be available to them in hopes they're gonna 786 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 1: come chase me. I know with clients, people get really 787 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: stuck on the like and my anxious avoid am I this? 788 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: Am I? Am I secure? And like? I think that 789 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 1: it's helpful to have those labels and all of that. 790 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 1: It's so helpful. But I also have developed this way 791 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,279 Speaker 1: of looking at all of the spectrum because I can 792 00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,879 Speaker 1: lean this way and these in these circumstances this way, 793 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,879 Speaker 1: and I can be secure. I think the important part 794 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,360 Speaker 1: of all of this is knowing what am I attempting 795 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: to do? Rather than putting it like what what style 796 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,239 Speaker 1: am I sitting in? It's like what am I? What 797 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,319 Speaker 1: am I trying to do? And what do I really need? 798 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,279 Speaker 1: What I really need? Absolutely yeah, And that's kind of 799 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,759 Speaker 1: why I mentioned like, oh, you can also be a 800 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 1: little bit of both that It's not that we have 801 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,280 Speaker 1: to put a label on it. And I think with anything, 802 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 1: whether you're start up diagnosing you know, a disorder or 803 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 1: something like that, it's just look at it and see 804 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,879 Speaker 1: like how much of this fits me? Then you're you're 805 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 1: more likely to be experiencing it. That it's not about 806 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 1: like putting a label. I mean, I try to reframe 807 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,719 Speaker 1: labels for clients. Is that means it happens for enough 808 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,359 Speaker 1: people that we had to come up with a name 809 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,320 Speaker 1: for it. That's really all it is. And so whether 810 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,520 Speaker 1: it's a big tea or a little tea, or this 811 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,359 Speaker 1: is common or not, it's just like you said, what's 812 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: your experiences and what's going on with it? Like, how's 813 00:41:55,600 --> 00:42:00,439 Speaker 1: that working for you right now? Let's say I'm like, yes, 814 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: this is me now I feel stuck. Is their hope 815 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 1: for people who feel that way? Yes? Absolutely, okay, um, 816 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,440 Speaker 1: And my first response it's always gonna be like, this 817 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 1: is something that you're like, oh my gosh, I'm in this. 818 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,880 Speaker 1: If you have the resources in the in the means 819 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,799 Speaker 1: and the ability to go to therapy, go and if 820 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 1: you are in therapy and you've never talked about any 821 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,839 Speaker 1: of this stuff, bring it up. Are there things that 822 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,920 Speaker 1: you can recommend for any individuals who are like this 823 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:33,719 Speaker 1: is me and I feel now, I'm like I want 824 00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 1: to do something about this other than like going and 825 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:37,960 Speaker 1: doing their their work. Well, that's the only way we're 826 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,080 Speaker 1: gonna be able to really do anything and see any 827 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:44,439 Speaker 1: change and experience our relationships different. But the first read 828 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,319 Speaker 1: about it like the my kind of go to book, 829 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 1: and it was the one that was suggested to me, 830 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 1: and I've looked at several other ones and I still 831 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,359 Speaker 1: keep going back to that one is Um. It's called 832 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:57,320 Speaker 1: Facing Love Addictions by p amility Um. She's actually got 833 00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,160 Speaker 1: a treatment center called The Meadows that have several it's 834 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,200 Speaker 1: all kinds of addiction, but love addiction is one, and 835 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,680 Speaker 1: so there's there's treatment centers for this kind of stuff, 836 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,319 Speaker 1: but she that's a big thing for her that she 837 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,319 Speaker 1: looks at and so it can be going to a 838 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,640 Speaker 1: treatment center. But reading the book and saying is that 839 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,560 Speaker 1: how much to identify with this? It really starts to 840 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:18,839 Speaker 1: pull the veil back of like here's and it can, 841 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,799 Speaker 1: like I said, be really hard to read. But first 842 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,480 Speaker 1: get to understanding it's know how you're engaging with it, 843 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,360 Speaker 1: if that's something that that's an issue for you, But 844 00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,040 Speaker 1: then bring it up to a therapist, you know, start 845 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,920 Speaker 1: to work on it. Because it's it's rooted in those 846 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,759 Speaker 1: some those childhood wounds, whether we call it trauma or not, 847 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,200 Speaker 1: but it's that wounding in those messagings that tells us 848 00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:43,880 Speaker 1: what we have a right to do. We have a 849 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,640 Speaker 1: right to need things or want things, and is my 850 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,359 Speaker 1: worth valuable. We're getting our worth from external things, So 851 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,279 Speaker 1: it's more about how does that shift to being an 852 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 1: internal thing that it's if I never met another you 853 00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,640 Speaker 1: know person again and was single the rest of my life, 854 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:03,680 Speaker 1: I'd still be okay and have a pretty fulfilling life. Um, 855 00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,160 Speaker 1: it's getting to that point because then it's when a 856 00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,440 Speaker 1: relationship ends. It's I'm sad I spent a lot of 857 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,600 Speaker 1: time with that person and I'm going to miss him 858 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,800 Speaker 1: versus oh my god, I'm gonna be lonely and miserable 859 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,120 Speaker 1: the rest of my life. And that's the difference in response. 860 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,799 Speaker 1: So if we're still like it's heavily tied to who 861 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:22,880 Speaker 1: we are as a person, we may have some more 862 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 1: work to do. So I'm naturally going to end up 863 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,000 Speaker 1: being around when I'm doing the things that I like 864 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,319 Speaker 1: that bring me joy, around other people that have the 865 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,720 Speaker 1: same kind of thing going on, I'm going to connect 866 00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,480 Speaker 1: with that. And so it's sometimes it's trusting that because 867 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,719 Speaker 1: it's again if our focus is on like on the 868 00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,920 Speaker 1: search trying to find it you know, it's I've deleted 869 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,320 Speaker 1: dating apps because I was like, I'm getting too focused 870 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 1: on that and I was able to that's because it 871 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,840 Speaker 1: feels hopeful because we desire to be in relationships and 872 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,480 Speaker 1: I was like, I'm still hopeful without that, and so 873 00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,080 Speaker 1: it's that was something where and that's I think what 874 00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,279 Speaker 1: moving we're into health of this looks like is knowing 875 00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,239 Speaker 1: we're always going to have that tendency, but we're able 876 00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:01,960 Speaker 1: to catch it and we were able to divert and 877 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,640 Speaker 1: do something different and so let go of things when 878 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,680 Speaker 1: we need to. UM that it's constantly moving us forward, 879 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,319 Speaker 1: but it's build the life that you want, that you're 880 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:14,480 Speaker 1: happy with for you, it's not around a pedestal, right, 881 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,560 Speaker 1: and then those people were naturally around they get to 882 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:21,239 Speaker 1: join in with us and where we are that we 883 00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,560 Speaker 1: treat them. I'll look at it that way. It's in 884 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:25,840 Speaker 1: the same for me, a treat for me to be 885 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,480 Speaker 1: in relationship with with people, UM that that's built on 886 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,960 Speaker 1: getting to know each other and valuing each other. I've 887 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,640 Speaker 1: told clients, if you are constantly anxious in a relationship 888 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:40,080 Speaker 1: and constantly worrying if that person likes you, are worrying 889 00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,360 Speaker 1: that they're going to leave. It's good to keep in 890 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,080 Speaker 1: mind it could be some of our own messaging. But 891 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,919 Speaker 1: that's not what relationships are supposed to feel like. And 892 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,520 Speaker 1: that's a good queue to kind of take a look 893 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,960 Speaker 1: in sizes the relationship for me. But when we're when 894 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,279 Speaker 1: we're creating more of our own thing than you know, 895 00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:00,759 Speaker 1: we can invite people into our space, spit. Our world 896 00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:02,799 Speaker 1: is not going to fall apart if it doesn't work out. 897 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,920 Speaker 1: And it not working out doesn't mean we failed. Yeah, 898 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,760 Speaker 1: thank you for being here, Thank you for doing um 899 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:14,800 Speaker 1: that book again. Pa Melody wrote Facing Codependency, to which 900 00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,120 Speaker 1: I recommended a couple weeks ago. So just get both 901 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,080 Speaker 1: of the books. Not about if you live in Nashville 902 00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,480 Speaker 1: and you're like, wow, this sounds like somebody I need 903 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:27,319 Speaker 1: to talk to more. How can people find you to 904 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,440 Speaker 1: reach out for you for their own healing? And it also, 905 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,120 Speaker 1: is there a way that people can reach you on 906 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:34,920 Speaker 1: Instagram and all of that if they just want to 907 00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:39,640 Speaker 1: follow along my websites Trauma Therapy Nashville dot com. And 908 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:41,640 Speaker 1: we've got to have therapists that work with me in 909 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,640 Speaker 1: my practice, that are familiar and work with these types 910 00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:48,719 Speaker 1: of things and trauma um informed and trained, so that's 911 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,759 Speaker 1: one way to reach us. Contact information is there, and 912 00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,399 Speaker 1: on social media. It's trauma therapy Nashville. Pretty easy. Al right, well, 913 00:46:55,440 --> 00:47:00,880 Speaker 1: thank you very much, thanks for having me. Two tho