1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: Body Vitals with Joseph Scott More. There are two places 2 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: in the US that I want to visit, and not 3 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: just visit, I want to stay. I want to stay 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks and just kind of soak 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: things in, and to this point in my life, I've 6 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: never been able to. The first one is Maine. I've 7 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: always wanted to go to Maine. I've always wanted to 8 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 1: see it to see if it is in fact as 9 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: beautiful as I've imagined it to be. The rocky shoreline, 10 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: you know, the evergreen forests that are there, the isolation, 11 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: which sometimes is a good thing. The other place for me, though, 12 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: is Montana. When I hear Montana and what people say 13 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: about it, and the fact that the place actually has 14 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: the title Big Sky, I've always wanted to go there, 15 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: and I wanted to see it at night to see 16 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: if everything it's true, that the clarity that you have 17 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: when you look up into the sky and you can 18 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 1: see the beautiful stars. But you know, Montana still to 19 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: this day is a rugged in a dangerous place. Today, 20 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about a case involving a fellow who, 21 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:40,759 Speaker 1: at first glance apparently met his end at the hand 22 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: of something that was rather savage up there. And I 23 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: don't mean the wildlife. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this 24 00:01:54,120 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: is Bodybags, my buddy Dave Max here with me. Dave, 25 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: I got to tell you, you know, you know that 26 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: Kim and I before we came to Jacksonville, Alabama, we 27 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: were up in Delanaga, Georgia, which is up in the 28 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: Blue Ridge, up in the northern part. I taught it 29 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: at a university up there, and it was up there 30 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: for about a decade and we had we had a 31 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: little cabin that we lived in. It was purchased on 32 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: the side of a hill, and I guess I was 33 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: probably eight miles away from the campus. You get eight 34 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: miles away from anywhere in Delanga, Georgia, and you're out. 35 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: I mean you're out. It doesn't take that long. And 36 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: the cool thing about this place was that adjacent to 37 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: our property, our neighbor owned multiple rental cabins and it 38 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: was on a big circle. And so when Noah, my 39 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: son was little, Kim and I would take Noah and 40 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: we'd go for walks every day, and we go out 41 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: with our dogs. You know, we love dogs, and so 42 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: we have rescues and we would go out with the 43 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: dogs and hang out. And there was one of these 44 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: cabins in particular that had a great port swing. We 45 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: just go sit on the porch swing and watch the 46 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: dogs run up and down the hill that's adjacent to it, 47 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: and you know, it's very rugged terrain. And Noah was 48 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 1: there and he had had a toy with him and 49 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: he was playing right off the front of the porch 50 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, have you ever had your 51 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: dog there with you and they spot something, They spot 52 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: something or hear something that you can't pick up on it, 53 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: but they do. Yeah, squirrel, and our dogs did that. 54 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: They alerted like immediately, and they just froze. And these 55 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: dogs never freeze. They're they're always very you know, kinectic. 56 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: And so looked over and out of the corner of 57 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: my eye, I thought I saw something move, and I 58 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: stepped down off the porch and there one of my 59 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 1: terriers was looking in the direction of the hill immediately 60 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 1: adjacent to the cabin, and there was a full grown 61 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: Eastern black bear. It was a mama. And the reason 62 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: I know it was a mama is she had three 63 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: of the cutest little cubs right behind her. And they're 64 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: walking down the trail. Well, this is something I do 65 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: know about bears is that, first off, Mama bear is 66 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: the most dangerous creature on the face of planet, particularly 67 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: when her cubs are around. And all I could think 68 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 1: of was that this thing is going to come after us. 69 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: And it is literally, i don't know, probably ten yards 70 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: away from us from the edge of the porch, and 71 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: they're going around the back of the cabin. And I 72 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: looked over at Kim and I remember saying, don't make 73 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: any quick movements, just sit right here. And of course 74 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: Kim says, what is it? What is it? And the 75 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: dogs are creeping toward this, and I'm like, get up 76 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: off the porch, grab Noah, and walk up the hill 77 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: and around, trying to take the greatest circumferences you possibly 78 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: can away from this. And she reared up, Dave. 79 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 2: She reared up on talking about Mary, not Kim, right, yeah. 80 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:38,919 Speaker 1: Ex fact, now, Kim has reared up on me a 81 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: couple of times, but this animal reared up. And I, 82 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: you know, I don't get scared very often by things. 83 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 1: I didn't have a weapon with me. I'm just sitting 84 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: there on the front porch, mine and my own businesses. 85 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: Thing reared up and her cubs walked right behind her, 86 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: except for one that stood there. Dave stared at us 87 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: and it reared up. Oh wow, and I'm thinking, oh 88 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: my lord, what are we going to do? What are 89 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: we going to do? Well? I started making loud noises, 90 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 1: you know, flailing my arms about Kim is like going 91 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: up the hill with Noah. She's screaming at the dogs. 92 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 1: The dogs are following, but they're still looking back over 93 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,679 Speaker 1: the shoulder, you know, kind of like a lot's wife, 94 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: I guess. But anyway, they're trying to trying to get away. 95 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: And all I could think about, I've had this incredible 96 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: terror that kind of grabbed hold of me at that moment, Tom, 97 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 1: because I wasn't asking for it. I didn't go out 98 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: and seek the bear. You know, I'm not like one 99 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 1: of these people. And I've seen this happen, particularly if 100 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: we go the Great Smoking Mountains to the Smoking Mountain 101 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: National Park. I've actually seen people approaching bears with cameras 102 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: to take photos. They don't realize how fast they are. 103 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: They think that they're these big, kind of slow lumber 104 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: they're not. They can outrun a full grown man, and 105 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: they are dangerous, very dangerous. Generally black bears, Eastern black 106 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: bears are not. They're a bit more passive, but they're 107 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: still dangerous animals. I don't think people appreciate that. So 108 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: I've got a long way around the barn to tell 109 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: this story. Because when you're face to face in that 110 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: space with this animal, this is a wild animal. You're 111 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: not at a zoo. This is their world. You're just 112 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: kind of living in it. When the story came up 113 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: and came across the wires that we're going to be 114 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: talking about today on body bags, I thought, wow, this 115 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: is something that you don't normally see, right, you know, 116 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:52,679 Speaker 1: you think about you hear bear attack, and I've seen 117 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: images before. As a matter of fact, I talk about it. 118 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: I teach a class in forensic odentology at Jacksonville State 119 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: where I talked about bite marks and all these sorts 120 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: of things, and I actually show injuries that have been 121 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:10,239 Speaker 1: generated by a variety of different animals, and the bear 122 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: is always the most ghastly. I mean, it is absolutely horrible, 123 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: absolutely horrible. It's very disordered, it's random, it's vicious. People 124 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: just get shredded by these animals. And so when I 125 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: heard about this case and that it was an alleged 126 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: bear attack. I knew that we were going to have 127 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: something to talk about. 128 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 2: Brother. Well, it starts with a nine one one call 129 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 2: from a friend who our victim is a thirty five 130 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 2: year old man named Dustin. How are we going to pronounce? 131 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 2: Isn't that last name? Joe? You'resome? It's it again, you'resome. You'resome? Okay, Dustin, y'resome? 132 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 2: And he is a man's man. I was looking up 133 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 2: this because of the story and what we're being told. 134 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 2: And you get a thirty five your old man. He's 135 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 2: a father, but he is. This guy is from Montana. 136 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 2: And I'm gonna tell you. When you're from Montana and 137 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 2: you're a dude and you're going camping, I kind of 138 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 2: picture all these guys like Paul Bunyan, you know, they 139 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 2: just I'm thinking you already live. Your neighborhood is probably 140 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 2: like the great outdoors. To me, I would be John 141 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 2: Candy on the floor. 142 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: I gotta say this. He's not one of these Hollywood 143 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: California guys that have relocated to Montana. This guy is 144 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: like when you look him up, he's like the definition 145 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: of Montana. 146 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: You know, you see and this man's man. He has plans. 147 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 2: He's going camping. And this is what I tell city 148 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 2: people all the time, if you really want to know 149 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 2: what it's like to go camping. One you mentioned bears, Joe. Yeah, 150 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 2: my daughter Hannah took Braylan, who is nine, to Gatlin, 151 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 2: Tennessee area for fall break. They just came back the 152 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 2: other day. And while they were there, they went to 153 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 2: an area called Cade's Cove, which is beautiful. If you've 154 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 2: never seen it, yeah, it's incredible. And while they were there, 155 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 2: they saw mama bear and her cubs on the wild 156 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 2: They were in their car, and yet I'm listening as 157 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 2: they're videoing this, and I'm like, in my head, roll 158 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 2: your windows up. Roll your window is up. That's too close. 159 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 2: Roll your windows up. And it's something they will learn 160 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 2: as they get older. But I'm hearing my daughter talking 161 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 2: to this wild bear like it's a puppy, and I'm going, baby, 162 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 2: you gotta learn. This is not that they look sweet 163 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 2: and all that, but this is not your pet. This 164 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 2: is an animal. Granted, they're probably used to seeing people 165 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 2: more than other bears in other parts of the country, 166 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 2: but still a wild bear is a big danger and 167 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 2: it was just funny. 168 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:59,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you see them, it reminds me of all 169 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: those years that I was in South Louisiana, and I've 170 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: actually been around people that for some reason they wanted 171 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: to go close to the edge of the water they 172 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: saw an alligator in the water. And I've had this 173 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: happen a couple of times. It happened to me actually 174 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 1: on a golf course years ago, where when you play 175 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: golf in South Louisiana, all of the little retention ponds 176 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: that they have there the water. We don't have many 177 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: hills down south in South Louisiana, so the you know, 178 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: when you think about these obstacles that they create on 179 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: golf courses to you know, make it more difficult, water 180 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: plays a big role. Well, if you have water down there, 181 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: guess who's going to wind up in the water. You're 182 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 1: going to have alligators. And I was always fascinated by 183 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:53,839 Speaker 1: people that would approach these things and without a without 184 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: giving a second thought, they show no mercy whatsoever. You 185 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: are food as far or a threat, right, And you know, 186 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: I think more so a threat with a bear as 187 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 1: opposed to food with an alligator. Your food, dude, I mean, 188 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: that's what you are, and the fact that we have 189 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: no we have no we have no sense, we have 190 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: no sense of fear many times around and and so 191 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: when I hear, when I hear anything that involves an 192 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: animal attack, I'm always fascinated by this, certainly from a 193 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: forensic standpoint, to try to understand it, what happened, What 194 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: do the injuries look like? Because for every every animal 195 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: that you have, their bite is going to be different. 196 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: The destruction that they that they they reek over over 197 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: an individual is going to vary, you know, dependent upon 198 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: how they are set up at a very you know, 199 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: the very primal level. So you know, I'm thinking, I 200 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: hear this case about the bearitone and there's a lot 201 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: more to this. 202 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 2: But Joe, when you're going through boy Scouts and you're 203 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 2: learning the camp you know, there's it starts at a 204 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 2: young age, but then as you age up you go 205 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 2: on different camping trips. As a boy scouting, I learned 206 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 2: a lot of things in scouting. And one of the 207 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:26,079 Speaker 2: things that you learn when you're out off grade camping, 208 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 2: you know, like and that's what we're talking about today. 209 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,079 Speaker 2: We're not talking about a camping area where you pull 210 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 2: your car up and can plug into an outlet, and 211 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 2: all that this is. This is camping where you look 212 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 2: around and you find a relatively flat place to put 213 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 2: your tent up. And they always tell you in boy 214 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 2: Scouts you take all of your food and you hang it, 215 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 2: hang it, yep. And by the way, that includes toothpaste. 216 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 2: You hang anything that has a smell, and you hang 217 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 2: it on a branch high enough up where it can 218 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 2: because bears are attracted to this. You do not want 219 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 2: a bear coming into your tent looking for your cookies. 220 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 2: And knowing that, and seeing the headline on this story 221 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 2: that a nine to one one call comes in and 222 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 2: the man says, I was supposed to meet my friend 223 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 2: and he never showed up, so I went looking for him, 224 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 2: found his tent, and I think he has been killed 225 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 2: by a bear. There are so many things in that 226 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 2: nine to one one call, or that we've been told. 227 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 2: I have not heard the call yet, it hasn't been released, 228 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 2: but what I have heard about what was said on 229 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 2: that call, Joe. Immediately my thought went to your discussion 230 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 2: a couple of shows ago about the finder, the person 231 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 2: who finds the victim. And I looked at what the 232 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 2: finder said, what the person the victim was doing. And 233 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 2: you put all this together and you're thinking, these people 234 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 2: know what the outdoors is like, the finder and the victim. 235 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 2: They know what it is to do real camping. They 236 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 2: know what it's like to be in the woods. They 237 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 2: know the type of animals that are out there to 238 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 2: do you harm. And I'm putting all that into play 239 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 2: as I look at this, and I'm thinking bear attack. Huh. 240 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 2: When the Sheriff's department gets out there, Joe, they take 241 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 2: a look. They've been told bear attack, so they're thinking that, 242 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 2: but they immediately start looking in the area, and what 243 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 2: they don't find is any sign of bear activity. 244 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. And these people are to be a law enforcement 245 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: officer in Montana, and it was actually the Wildlife Gain 246 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: people you know that made this assessment. You know. But 247 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: I think that even your regular deputy that's on patrol 248 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: out there, they encounterbears. I mean, that's that's the nature 249 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: of living out there, and even they understand what to 250 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: look for with bears. First off, you know you're going 251 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: to look and see. One of the biggest things is 252 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: obviously prints. They're very distinctive. You know, when you see them, 253 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: you're looking for where they refer to as scat, which 254 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: is their waste that's out in that area, and you'll 255 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: get a sense and many times with bears in particular, 256 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: you'll see I've seen this even with Eastern black bears, 257 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: where they will scratch on trees and they'll create these 258 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: huge marks. And that's another thing that's another like dose 259 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: of reality. When you see these scratch marks that they'll 260 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: make on trees and whatnot. Suddenly you have this realization 261 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: of what could what this thing can do with merely 262 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: a swipe a swipe of one of their paws. And 263 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: you're talking about and they have these these retractable claws 264 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: as well. I don't think that they're retractable to the 265 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: level of like a cat, but you don't fully appreciate 266 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: these things when you see those hands the bear's pause 267 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: rather not hands, when you see them kind of extended 268 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: out and you get an idea as to how big 269 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: these claws are. That the same has we're not even 270 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: talking about the teeth man, and they are absolutely rais 271 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: or sharp. So one of the things that I think 272 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: as an investigator that you're trying to understand when you 273 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: are trying to assess an area where an animal attack 274 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: has taken place. You're not going to look for, Dave, 275 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: to be ordered. There is not an ordered event when 276 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: it comes to a wild animal attacking. And you know 277 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: when the police get out there, they get out to 278 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: this site and they're looking around. You don't see things 279 00:17:55,000 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 1: ripto shreds. You don't see things overturned. Heck, even see 280 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: evidence in the dirt that there's been a scuffle, a struggle. 281 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: You don't even see blood. And I got to tell you, 282 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: when it comes to an attack like that, you would 283 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 1: see total and complete chaos. Dave. You know, a few 284 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: moments ago you had mentioned the initial reporter or finder, 285 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: you know, in a case, And isn't that interesting how 286 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: a narrative will begin with that initial statement that the 287 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: finder makes. So even though the finder might not be 288 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: qualified to assess a situation. You see this with suicides 289 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: a lot. I think that I think that you know, 290 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: you're going to call, and it's like I think that 291 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:10,640 Speaker 1: my friend, my family member has uh has been you know, murdered, 292 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: and you get out there and then you discover there's 293 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: a weapon underneath the body, that this person has self 294 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: inflicted as opposed to just being you know, something else. 295 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 1: You walk onto a scene where you see horrible injuries 296 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 1: on a body. I think that the mind goes to, Okay, 297 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: what could have generated this kind of injury and what 298 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: is there out here that could facilitate this? And automatically 299 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,719 Speaker 1: your mind goes to bear attack because that's what inhabits 300 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: this area, grizzlies and black bears by the way, in 301 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 1: this particular region. And so you know, you kind of 302 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: take your pick as to you know what. You know, 303 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: you don't know what species, but automatically you didn't say 304 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 1: panther attack or mountain lion attack. Rather, I think or 305 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 1: it was a bobcat. You say bear, And so that 306 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: gets I printed in your brain as an investigator, and 307 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: you start working this thing. If you're not careful, you 308 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: get tunnel vision really really quickly because you're not looking 309 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 1: at any other options. In this case. Got to tell you, Dave, 310 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: the evidence of a bear attack was greatly lacking, to 311 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: say the least. 312 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 2: His campsite is about two and a half miles up 313 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 2: what they call Moose Creek Road, and the way it 314 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 2: was written was up Moose Creek Road, and that's where 315 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 2: he put his tent. Now his friend finds him at 316 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 2: ten am Saturday morning. I'm going to go on the 317 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 2: assumption because it has been said there is no such 318 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 2: dealer's service there at the ten site that he sees 319 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 2: what has taken place, and he has to go back 320 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 2: to an area to call nine one one. Knowing how 321 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 2: these calls often go, the operator is asking you to 322 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 2: give them specific information on site, but he wouldn't be 323 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 2: on site making the nine one one call. He would 324 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,959 Speaker 2: be away from it. So the things that the operator 325 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 2: would know would need to know to pass along to 326 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 2: law enforcement, they can't get. It's going to be I 327 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 2: saw this briefly, but I can't go check it now 328 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 2: because it's two and a half miles away or whatever. 329 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I got a let's take a pause here 330 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: and consider the environment that we're working in. They you know, 331 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: we're looking at it. I think probably from their perspective, 332 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: are from our perspective relative to being in maybe not 333 00:21:54,200 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: a densely populated urban area, but populated certainly populated compared 334 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: to to Montana, like where we live, or if you're 335 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: in Atlanta or Birmingham or you know, Nashville or whatever. 336 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: They adjust to this though, and so they they're keen 337 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: to it because this is the area in which they police. 338 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: You can imagine some of these calls that a nine 339 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: one one operator might get up there and you're saying, 340 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: you know, and they're giving you a reference. Well, it's 341 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:31,120 Speaker 1: where the big ledge right ledges hanging over the dirt road. 342 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: You pointed that out, Yeah, exactly, And so they're you know, 343 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: they're thinking about about this. You know how you know, 344 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: they know where Moose Creek Road is, and they know 345 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: that there's an intersection up there of say an adjacent road. 346 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: I think that, and it's a spot. It's a spot 347 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 1: that other hunters go to, you know, because you know 348 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: there's hunters, outfitters, campers and people that just want to 349 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: get away. But you know, you've got like Moose Creek 350 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: Road and it's near Tampery Creek Road, so you've got 351 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: that intersection to work on. But yeah, I mean, you're 352 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: talking about going two and a half miles off the 353 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: road back up into an area and and it would 354 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: seem to imply that he's been there before, can you 355 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: think so? I mean, because you're not going to show 356 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: up there just randomly. You're going to know, you're going 357 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,919 Speaker 1: to know the area. It's a select area. I don't know. 358 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 1: Maybe he's hunted fish trapped in that area before. Maybe 359 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: it's just a good place he likes to go and 360 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: get away. Maybe maybe he likes the fact he doesn't 361 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:46,880 Speaker 1: have cell service up there. 362 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 2: Could be and based on again going back to the 363 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 2: timeline here, you know of when he was seen and 364 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 2: what his plan was, he was already planning on being 365 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 2: there for the overnight time, you know, Thursday night and 366 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 2: a Friday by himself. He's got a plan to meet 367 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 2: his friend Friday afternoon and he doesn't show. I don't 368 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 2: know when the friend. I don't know if the friends 369 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,919 Speaker 2: started looking for him Friday afternoon when he didn't show, 370 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 2: or if he just waited. And so you know, I'll 371 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 2: go if I don't hear from him tonight, I'll go 372 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 2: looking in the morning. The fact they found him at 373 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 2: ten am sounds about right to me that he would 374 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 2: start looking in the Saturday morning. But Joe, we've got 375 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 2: the guy calling in a vicious bear attack or he 376 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 2: tells nine one one it looks like a bear attack, 377 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 2: which I'm going to go out on a limb here 378 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 2: and say, if it was a bear attack, the tent 379 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 2: would not be standing up mister bear doesn't walk. It's 380 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 2: not Yogi and booboo. They're not walking into the tent, 381 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,239 Speaker 2: killing somebody and then leaving the tent. The tent is 382 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 2: going to be torn to smith the reens, I would think. 383 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 2: And if the tint, if the bear, if a bear 384 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 2: attack took place inside a tent, there's gonna be shredded everything. 385 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it'll be completely shredded. And you'll see what. 386 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: Another thing that you're going to see that will be 387 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: associated with this is the bear planting its feet solidly, 388 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 1: rising up probably on its haunches or on its rear legs, 389 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 1: and then swiping with the leading you know, with the 390 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: leading paw, and you'll see these kind of gouge marks 391 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 1: in the ground where they're trying to, you know, the 392 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 1: animals trying to leverage itself in order to facilitate this attack. 393 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: And so with that, with that playing a part in it, 394 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: you would get up there, it would seem like it 395 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: would seem like total chaos in this environment, and there 396 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: would be evidence of that. But you're talking about from 397 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 1: what we can ascertain, we've got an individual that has 398 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: walked in to a site, he's found his friend, he's 399 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: in what we believe is an intact tent, which a 400 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: tent for a bear is nothing, a camper is nothing 401 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: for a bear. It really provides you. Oh yeah, I 402 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 1: mean it could. I think that it could. Particularly like 403 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: for instance, we you know, I know that, you know, 404 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: we were when the kids were little. We took up 405 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: a pop up camper up to what's referred to as 406 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 1: Rhan Mountain, which is a far eastern Tennessee It's one 407 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: of my favorite areas of the country, and camped up there. 408 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: We had bears outside outside of our pop up camper 409 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: there with the kids in it. And you have not 410 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: lived until you hear the sound of first off, a 411 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: bear blowing like that, and then here's the other thing 412 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:53,239 Speaker 1: that's really chilling them sniffing. It's really really loud, and 413 00:26:53,280 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: Wen you could hear it outside of our camper. So yeah, 414 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: they'll rip things to shreds. And they're not they're not ordered, 415 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: you know, it's not like it's not like you're going 416 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: to show up at a scene and there's been a 417 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,959 Speaker 1: bear attack and everything is in that's it's been staged 418 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: in somebody where it's very neat, you know, and and 419 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: it's just it's pristine and you've just got a traumatize 420 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: you happen to have a traumatized body line there with 421 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 1: ghastly injuries and there's no other evidence that this had occurred. 422 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 2: Which is exactly what happened here. They got there and 423 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 2: went no way. I mean, you know, they got to 424 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 2: this campsite and said they they're thinking bear. But there's 425 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 2: something that you actually have taught me, and that is 426 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,159 Speaker 2: every death is treated as a homicide until you did 427 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,959 Speaker 2: it no differently. Yeah, And as they're walking into this, 428 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 2: on the one hand, they're going, okay, guy said bear attack. 429 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 2: That'll be an obvious Get We're going to walk up 430 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 2: there and we're going to see the scattered remains of 431 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 2: the campsite and the human being that is no longer 432 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 2: with us. And they get there and don't find that 433 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 2: they I'm going to go on an assumption here, Joe, 434 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 2: that they look at one another and go, where's the finder? 435 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 2: You know, where's the guy that called this in? 436 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: Yeah? Because you know, how how did you? How did 437 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: you make this assessment? And look, it's it's when you 438 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: have somebody making this kind of assessment that is familiar 439 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: with this area. Now, I don't know if this finder 440 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: has ever seen a bear attack. I have no idea, 441 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: but if they're a native to that area, you have 442 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: to assume that they've at least seen trash cans turned over, 443 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: they've seen things torn open, and I have I've seen 444 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: a bear go through an area relative to food. You 445 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: know you were talking about hanging food up. I've seen 446 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: picnic tables that are overturned where they're just sniffing through 447 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: that huge snout that they have. You know, their their 448 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: sense of smell is equal to that of a dog, 449 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: if not more powerful, actually, because that's how they find food. 450 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: It's not like they're necessarily hunting with their eyes. They're 451 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: trying to catch catch wind of something where they can go, 452 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: and they'll eat just about anything. You know, they'll eat. 453 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: What they refer to is like Karen, you know the 454 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,479 Speaker 1: things that are left behind that are rotting. They're not 455 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: going to necessarily go out and kill a deer, but 456 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: if they find a dead deer, they'll feast on it. Now, 457 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: they will eat smaller animals, they'll eat grubs, they'll eat berries. 458 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: You know, bears famously eat berries. You know, it's one 459 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: of things you Joki bear. You know they're going to eat. 460 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: They're just they just want to eat. Think about you 461 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: think about the size of one of these things. Just 462 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: think about the size of it. They're massive, all right, 463 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: We're talking for five hundred pounds, dude. Do you realize 464 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: how much gasoline you got to have in the tank 465 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: to power that thing? So it's a it's a constant 466 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: search for food, always, always, and they'll go to any 467 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: links to get it, particularly if they're trying to feed. 468 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: Maybe they've got cubs, we don't know. So what is this? 469 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: Are we talking about a single male bear that's walking 470 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: around here that's just scavenging? Are we look? Is this 471 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: a mother bear that's trying to feed these babies that 472 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: she's got. And you know they're going to understand, you know, 473 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: what time of year would she would she have children 474 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: on board? How old would would the I say children? 475 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: Would she have cubs on board that perhaps have yet 476 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: to be born? Or does she have them trailing? After all, 477 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: these things are going to come into play when you 478 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: begin to assess this. And here's the key. The people 479 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,479 Speaker 1: that are actually doing the assessment on the scene are 480 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: highly skilled because it's not simply a deputy sheriff that's 481 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: out there the clues were discovered by the wildlife fisheries 482 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: officers that showed up. Because there's one thing that they 483 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: do know. They know about animal life and they know 484 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: what they're capable of. Dave, am I right? Did they 485 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: do a descriptor of the injuries that this young man 486 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: sustained out there at the scene? 487 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 2: You know, Joe? They have, They actually have an autopsy report, 488 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 2: but we haven't seen it yet, but they've referred to it. 489 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 2: They being the sheriff and those involved in this investigation, 490 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 2: they have referred to the autopsy report backing up their 491 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 2: assessment that this was not a bear attack. And Joe, 492 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 2: what they have said, I want to get this right, Okay, 493 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 2: the they don't know what sort of weapon was used, 494 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 2: but they know it was something that was hard enough 495 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 2: to cause significant damage. And according to Detective Captain Nate Camerman, 496 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 2: the victim, Dustin has multiple chop wounds. Chop wounds, that's 497 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 2: the phrase used here, chop wounds. I'm thinking axe hatchet, 498 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 2: tomahawk chop, you know, watching ball games when they do 499 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,239 Speaker 2: the tomahawk chop or whatever. And I know that's all 500 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 2: politically incorrect now to say something like that, but. 501 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: I mean I don't care. 502 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out what a chop wound would 503 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 2: look like. I've used an axe. I've used a hatchet 504 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 2: on wood, not human beings, but on wood, and I 505 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 2: know that sometimes it gets stuck and you have to 506 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 2: wedge it out a little bit with using your foot. 507 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 2: And so what are we talking about with chopp wounds 508 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 2: on a human being? 509 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: Joe, Well, you're first off, when you strike someone with 510 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: a heavy edged weapon, which if you're okay, let's just 511 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 1: let's kind of take it down the list here. We 512 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: could we could think about a machete, okay, which is 513 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: you know, people think a machete is kind of like 514 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: a big knife or it's kind of uh, you know, 515 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: some people might view a machete because it's got a 516 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: hilt guard on it and everything is like a sword, 517 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: all right, it's not. Machetes are created to chop with 518 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: and famously, you know, they've been used all over the world, 519 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: even in wartime relative to clearing brush. If you're trying 520 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: to you know, our guys in Vietnam, you know, had 521 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: machetes because the brush is so so you're you're cutting 522 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: and it's a tool too. I mean that you would 523 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: use to cut sugarcane with, for instance. 524 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 2: And it tires you out very quickly. If you vague 525 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 2: you never used one. 526 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, it is tiresome. But they're they're created 527 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: in a very specific manner, and the weight is on 528 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: the backstrap of this thing so that when you're delivering 529 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: delivering a blow. And I think that probably a machete 530 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: is the least of these as far as the damage 531 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: it can do. You're trying to direct that energy that 532 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: is being generated as you swing this thing down. You've 533 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: got top end weight, you've got a sharp leading edge. 534 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 1: The one thing that you're going to see with a 535 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 1: chop wound with a machete. First off, it's going to 536 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: be kind of long compared to a hatchet or an axe, 537 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,799 Speaker 1: will it will be kind of shallow. Well, if you 538 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: go to a hatchet, it's got more weight to it, 539 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: and it is. If you've never held a hatchet, think 540 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: about a hammer, Okay, a hammer with a weighted blade 541 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: on the end of it. Now, some people, you know, 542 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: hatchets have multiple utility. I've used them many times to 543 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 1: drive in tent steaks when we go out tent camping, 544 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: and you can flip it around on the blooded edge 545 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: and drive in tent steaks. You can flip it over 546 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 1: to the other side and you can use it chop wood, 547 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,760 Speaker 1: break up, kindling, those sorts of things, Okay, a multi 548 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,280 Speaker 1: use tool, and a lot of people that camp carry hatchets. Okay, 549 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,239 Speaker 1: Then you get up to something like an axe. Most 550 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 1: of the time, you're not going to come across say, 551 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: for instance, a two bladed axe. I think we think 552 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,800 Speaker 1: about that. You'd mentioned Paul Bundy in a moment ago. 553 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 1: You know, he famously carries a two sided or a 554 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: two bladed axe. Generally, you're going to have an individual 555 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: blade and it'll be weighted on the back and again 556 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,879 Speaker 1: this idea, it's like a giant wedge being driven through 557 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,720 Speaker 1: the air so that when it slams down onto the target, 558 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: you're going to get depth with it. Okay, the more 559 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: leverage that you can apply, that's going to translate to 560 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: the weight of that blade and then end up that 561 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 1: energy transferring onto the surface. You're going to have the 562 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: skin that will have these really neat kind of margins 563 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: to it, because you're talking about a machine edged blade. 564 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: But the other thing that you're going to get with 565 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: it is that the heavier the acts, the deeper it's 566 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:25,760 Speaker 1: going to go. So you begin to impact the underlying muscle. 567 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 1: You also begin to impact the skeletal structures below. But 568 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: you know, Dave, those skeletal structures below are equally going 569 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 1: to be if they're struck by an edged weapon like 570 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 1: this in a chopping motion, they will have neat edges 571 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 1: on them as well. So you can actually see this 572 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: on the markings of the bone. The bone will fracture, 573 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 1: but it's not it's not going to be to the 574 00:36:55,280 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 1: point where you can't appreciate the margins of the instruments 575 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: being used. So you would actually look at this as 576 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 1: a matter of fact. One of the things that you 577 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: would do with a case like this at the Morgue 578 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 1: is you're going to do initially the initial assessment externally 579 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: where you're you know, you're gauging these injuries and all 580 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But then you'll actually dissect out 581 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,359 Speaker 1: the wound and you can go down. Now you'll have 582 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 1: X rays too, but you will go down and examine 583 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: the bone as well as you might even cut out 584 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,320 Speaker 1: that bone. You'll take that bone and save it. Okay, 585 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: to demonstrate this in a future case, all right, now 586 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: if we drop back just for a second and think 587 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 1: about a bear attack for instance, Okay, well the bear attack. 588 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 1: If you're thinking about a bear attack, and what was it? 589 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,280 Speaker 1: See I mentioned just a few seconds ago the two 590 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,840 Speaker 1: species of bears that they have up there, like black 591 00:37:53,880 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 1: bear and grizzly. Well, black bears, they do. Black bears 592 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 1: and grizzlies obviously use their paws to attack, all right, 593 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: and you'll get these you'll get these swipes at the individual. 594 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 1: I saw an image of a guy that had gotten 595 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:17,360 Speaker 1: attacked by a by grizzly at at a point time. 596 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:23,280 Speaker 1: His face was greatly disfigured and wound up having extensive 597 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 1: plastic surgery. But the initial image that you see, you 598 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: can actually pick up on the pattern because you're not 599 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 1: like if it's a paw or claw. Rather, you're not 600 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 1: just going to have a single linear mark that's going 601 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 1: to run on a face or on a chest. You're 602 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:47,839 Speaker 1: going to have this times for probably. Okay, so it's 603 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 1: like a giant rake, if you will, a very heavy 604 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: robust rake that you will see with these kind of 605 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,759 Speaker 1: claw marks. But that's not really what's going to do 606 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,880 Speaker 1: you in with a bear attack. Bear attack is actually 607 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: going to be them using their jaws, okay, because once 608 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,399 Speaker 1: they swipe at you and knock you down, all right, 609 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,800 Speaker 1: they're going after you with their mouth. And a bear 610 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 1: has about I think a grizzly bear can generate about 611 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: thirteen hundred psi pounds per square inch, And to put 612 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:28,880 Speaker 1: that in perspective, that's more than a Bengal tiger. All right. 613 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: Now you can get out to alligators and crocs and 614 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: great whites. Great whites I think go up to like 615 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: thirty two hundred psi. So, but what do you get 616 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 1: when when you have that kind of pressure directly applied 617 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,839 Speaker 1: to an area, particularly a bony structure. Well, i'll tell 618 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 1: you what you're going to get. You're going to get fractured, 619 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: fragmented bone that's beneath that, and it is going to 620 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 1: be so ghastly. And you see these injuries because the 621 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,320 Speaker 1: motion of an animal. If you've ever seen a dog, 622 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:12,960 Speaker 1: for instance, where they are taking apart a piece of meat. 623 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 1: Let's say you give them a steak bone and they've 624 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: got it collapsed between their paws. They bite into the steakbone. 625 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: They're trying to get to the meat. They will bite 626 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,799 Speaker 1: and pull the rip. That's one of the reasons the 627 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,560 Speaker 1: canines prominent, the pointy teeth that we have, you know, 628 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:37,279 Speaker 1: in our maxillary and our mangellary teeth, the canines are 629 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,760 Speaker 1: meant for ripping. Just take a look at the teeth 630 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 1: of a bear. Sometimes you'll see those canones very prominently featured. 631 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,880 Speaker 1: And so they're trying to grab hold with their paws 632 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,279 Speaker 1: as they've got something be pinned down. Then they bite 633 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,919 Speaker 1: into it and they they'll turn their head and rip 634 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,759 Speaker 1: at the same time. This is very disordered day, this 635 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,840 Speaker 1: is chaotic. You see these kinds of injuries and a 636 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,839 Speaker 1: body would be covered with them. That's not what they're 637 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:09,759 Speaker 1: saying here, Dave. They're saying that these injuries that in 638 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 1: this isolated location two and half miles from where his 639 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,440 Speaker 1: truck would have been off the beaten path. Back in 640 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:24,759 Speaker 1: this isolated area, somebody came after this guy with an 641 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,399 Speaker 1: instrument that he could be chopped with these And what 642 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 1: they're saying is is that I can't remember the gentleman's 643 00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 1: name that gave the press conference, but he had mentioned 644 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:45,320 Speaker 1: specifically that these were chop chop injuries, and he's in 645 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,719 Speaker 1: the police officer that released information. It's not him making 646 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:54,320 Speaker 1: this assessment. They took his body and had his body 647 00:41:54,400 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: autopsied by forensic pathologists. I suspect somewhere like Bozeman or whatnot, 648 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 1: and they took his body and had an autopsy. You've 649 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 1: got a forensic pathologist making this assessment. They've documented every 650 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 1: bit of this day. 651 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 2: And that's why we looked at the case from the 652 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,040 Speaker 2: standpoint of the finder saying it was a bear attack 653 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 2: and the actual experts saying, huh uh, this does not 654 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 2: show any sign of bear attack. There's nothing around the campsite. 655 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,880 Speaker 2: There's no sign of bear activity around this area. 656 00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 1: Here's one other thing. I got to go back to 657 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 1: the forensics real quick, please do. I'm thinking about his body. Now. 658 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:42,920 Speaker 1: We know his body has been found inside the confounds 659 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:49,640 Speaker 1: of a tent. Okay, if you're chopping someone to death. Now, 660 00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:51,400 Speaker 1: I don't know how big the tent. It might be 661 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 1: a yurt for all I know those big things. Doubt, 662 00:42:55,120 --> 00:43:00,240 Speaker 1: a doubt, a doubt, this is a yurt. Okay. However, 663 00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:05,319 Speaker 1: if you've never been in a tent and you got 664 00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,840 Speaker 1: too much space in there to be swinging anything around 665 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 1: all right, matter of fact, you're very confined inside of 666 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:16,640 Speaker 1: a tent, whoever was a perpetrator on this, and they're 667 00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 1: you know, they're investigating this as a homicide, all right, 668 00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 1: So let's just go ahead and put that out there. 669 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:26,080 Speaker 1: We know that whoever would have perpetrated this would have 670 00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 1: had significant evidence transferred to their body because from what 671 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:42,960 Speaker 1: we understand, Dustin's injuries involved his skull and other points 672 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,680 Speaker 1: along his body. But he it's almost it almost sounds 673 00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:51,000 Speaker 1: like a disfigurement kind of thing where you've got fractured bone. 674 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:56,840 Speaker 1: This this instrument that they're describing, you know, the chopping 675 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 1: and injuries that's going to particularly when it comes to 676 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,719 Speaker 1: the skull, that's going to crush the skull, so you're 677 00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,000 Speaker 1: going to have a tremendous amount of blood, there might 678 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,440 Speaker 1: be brain matter, that sort of thing. Here's my question. 679 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:14,680 Speaker 1: If there's no blood deposition on the surrounding walls, if 680 00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:19,360 Speaker 1: you will, of the tent, where did this happen? We 681 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,839 Speaker 1: have to assume that it didn't happen in the tent. 682 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,080 Speaker 1: Maybe it did, but if I was a betting dude, 683 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,080 Speaker 1: I'd probably say no. So if they didn't see that 684 00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,080 Speaker 1: inside the tent where their drag marks leading up to 685 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:38,200 Speaker 1: the tent, was there somebody watching him as he set up. 686 00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,239 Speaker 1: Can did somebody follow him? You know, they saw his 687 00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:45,160 Speaker 1: car being parked. Maybe I don't know what's going on 688 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:50,280 Speaker 1: up in that wooded area. Could it be a drug 689 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:53,400 Speaker 1: related event where you've got he stumbled onto the wrong 690 00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,360 Speaker 1: group of folks that were up there trying to isolate themselves. 691 00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,600 Speaker 1: And that has happened in the past where you just 692 00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,239 Speaker 1: got some that's instantly walking through an area. It might 693 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,040 Speaker 1: be an area they're familiar with. Maybe they were engaged 694 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,920 Speaker 1: in nefarious activity and they did this. But when you 695 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:14,040 Speaker 1: begin to think about the brutality of this, we're not 696 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:18,120 Speaker 1: talking about taking, you know, a nine millimeters pistol and 697 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:23,160 Speaker 1: merely shooting somebody. No, we're talking about engagement. And this man, 698 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:31,279 Speaker 1: Dustin is not someone that is lacking strength. This as 699 00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,680 Speaker 1: you said, he's a man's man. He works out, he's 700 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,720 Speaker 1: an outdoor kind of guy. Okay, he's building he's building houses. 701 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:41,160 Speaker 1: He's not just building houses, he's building house in Montana, dude. 702 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:46,280 Speaker 1: You know he's he's you know, he's where he's very robust, 703 00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:50,680 Speaker 1: all right. So the fact that he's up there and 704 00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:55,360 Speaker 1: someone feels comfortable enough to attack this man, this is 705 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,960 Speaker 1: a dangerous individual that's floating around. I don't know who 706 00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,680 Speaker 1: they are, and this those two to an idea of 707 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:05,120 Speaker 1: disfigurement day. I mean, they're they're trying to ruin him. 708 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:10,760 Speaker 1: This is not just merely killing him. This is wrecking 709 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:15,319 Speaker 1: him to this point. So I don't know. We're we're 710 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:19,520 Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna hold out hope that they're going to 711 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:24,120 Speaker 1: be able to track somebody down in Dustin's case and 712 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:30,879 Speaker 1: maybe come back with with information that's going to help 713 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:31,440 Speaker 1: solve this. 714 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:32,000 Speaker 2: Uh. 715 00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,040 Speaker 1: The Sheriff's office up there by the way has put 716 00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,359 Speaker 1: out a couple of phone numbers and let me let 717 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,000 Speaker 1: me throw these out there to all of our friends. 718 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:46,320 Speaker 1: The first one is is aery code four oh six 719 00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:52,920 Speaker 1: five eight two twenty one twenty one, and they're saying 720 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:58,560 Speaker 1: for urgent tips, that number is four oh six five 721 00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:03,959 Speaker 1: eight two. That's two to one zero zero. So any 722 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:11,240 Speaker 1: information that you might have in regards to this man's death, 723 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:17,360 Speaker 1: his brutal, brutal death, Hoping that we can get some 724 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,319 Speaker 1: answers and try to understand what happened and get this 725 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:26,120 Speaker 1: person in custody that did this. It's going to be 726 00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,640 Speaker 1: very important because I don't think anybody's safe up there 727 00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:34,080 Speaker 1: until this person's off the streets. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan 728 00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:37,040 Speaker 1: and this is Bodybacks