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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Parkland, the Parkland shooting, words

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Speaker 1: that will be ingrained in our memories, our children's memories

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Speaker 1: from now on. Fourteen students massacred, three staff all dead

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Speaker 1: at the hands of the Parkland shooter, Nicholas Cruise, and now,

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Speaker 1: believe it or not, that mass murder has spawned our

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Speaker 1: reality show. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation and

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Speaker 1: series XM one eleven. Where did it all start? Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to this. My scient is instilling the highchools.

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Speaker 1: He said he heard noises in top and he thinks

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Speaker 1: they're shooting going on. It's a school police. Okay, we

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Speaker 1: do have police on Seminee. What is your emergency? I

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Speaker 1: think I hear gunshots. When is the address, sir? I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I'm at the in Parkment Oisles. It sounds

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Speaker 1: like it's over Tooyage in high school or George Douglas.

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Speaker 1: Might have been gunshots maybe fifteen minutes ago. So then

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Speaker 1: I just heard four or five right in a row

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Speaker 1: just a few minutes ago. Let you don't want to

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Speaker 1: hear a nine on one call about gunshots near a

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Speaker 1: high school listen nine one one, what is your emergency?

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Speaker 1: Such at Stubborn Douglas, someone's shooting up the school. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: I can't hear you. What's happening? Marks? Someone is doing? What? Hello? Hello?

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Speaker 1: Hello Mark? A couple of high schools is being shot up?

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Speaker 1: Are you at the school? I can't hear are you?

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Speaker 1: Are you at the school? To NIM one one call

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Speaker 1: or trying to whisper into the phone school is being

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Speaker 1: shot up? And then hangs up, joining me an all

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Speaker 1: star panel. At first, I want to go to David Vai,

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Speaker 1: a crime reporter in Miami. Harold, David, thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. Why was the nine one caller whispering? Well,

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Speaker 1: the nine one one caller was whispering because there was

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Speaker 1: a shooter inside that was shooting up the school. And

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Speaker 1: of course, you know, and just like we saw a

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Speaker 1: New Balda and other places where we have people who

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Speaker 1: are desperately calling NIM one one from inside the premises

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Speaker 1: on these school shootings, So that nine one one caller

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Speaker 1: is actually inside Marjorie's time and while trying to call

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Speaker 1: nine one one, and he's trying to whisper so the

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Speaker 1: shooter doesn't see him. He's trying to not attract the

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Speaker 1: shooter's attention. Yes, and you know, this was obviously a

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Speaker 1: huge stunning event for a lot of the students that

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Speaker 1: were there. So there was a lot of confusion about

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Speaker 1: where where the shooter was, where, um you know what,

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Speaker 1: when help was coming, whether you know, whether there was

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Speaker 1: more than one shooter right, So it was a lot

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Speaker 1: of confusion. So that's why they hence the whispering. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen now to our friends at ABC. At two

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Speaker 1: in the afternoon, gunshots ring out in the South Blorida

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Speaker 1: High school, terrified students hiding in classrooms during the gunman's rampage.

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Speaker 1: Oh God. The shooter reportedly first pulled a fire alarm

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Speaker 1: to get more students out of the classroom, maximizing potential victims.

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Speaker 1: As soon as the fire joe got pulled, the fire

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Speaker 1: alarm got pulled, and kids were evacuating. I heard five pops.

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Speaker 1: He was just very focused. Who's very focused on what

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Speaker 1: he was doing? Nuts. Yeah, I was in the classroom

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Speaker 1: and all of my air was shocked, and I was

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Speaker 1: just like, oh my gosh, what's happening. And we're just

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Speaker 1: sitting on the floor and we're just panicking. Why would

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Speaker 1: anyone want to capitalize and make blood money off the

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Speaker 1: park Land sheeting with a reality show? Aren't these nine

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Speaker 1: one one calls all the reality we need. Here are

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Speaker 1: our friends from ABC. SWAT teams swarming the perimeter, searching

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Speaker 1: the school, then moving inside. I have by the entrance

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Speaker 1: on the west side of the school, and I want

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Speaker 1: to We don't know if Erica Duval filming this video

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Speaker 1: as she and classmates were rescued by a SWAT team.

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Speaker 1: Terrified children let out from their hiding places with hands

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Speaker 1: in the air. Students in this classroom waiting in horror

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Speaker 1: for help to run outside. Chaos, students streaming out of

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Speaker 1: the building, some running, many with their hands on their heads,

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Speaker 1: A sea of backpacks bandoned on the ground. Emergency vehicles

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Speaker 1: rushing to the scene, Paramedics in a race to save

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Speaker 1: the wounded. Scenes of relief as parents comforted children who

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Speaker 1: reached safety. This mother was actually right outside the school

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Speaker 1: when the gunfire began. What did you hear? What did

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Speaker 1: you see? I heard? And then I texted him and

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Speaker 1: my other son found out that my other son got out,

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Speaker 1: found him at Walmart, brought him home with a few friends.

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Speaker 1: Nearly twenty people dead, the halls and classrooms of the

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Speaker 1: school read with blood, and finally an arrest listen At

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Speaker 1: three pm. The shooter is still at large, but now

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Speaker 1: a possible description a white burgundy shirt wearing a black

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Speaker 1: pot and with their long black coats are short with

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Speaker 1: a group of curioms that were running up down. Just

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Speaker 1: before four pm, the nineteen year old suspect Nicholas Cruz

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Speaker 1: captured and taken into custody. Straight back out to David

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Speaker 1: Vayer joining us the Miami Herald investigative crime reporter. David.

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Speaker 1: For those people that are not familiar with the Parkland shooting,

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Speaker 1: and how anyone could consider making a reality show out

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Speaker 1: of anything to do with the Parkland shooter is beyond me.

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Speaker 1: Please jog the memories people that are not familiar with

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Speaker 1: the shooting. Well. The shooting is Florida's deadliest and bloodiest

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Speaker 1: school school shooting in Florida history. It happened on February fourteenth,

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, and this was when Nicholas Cruz, who had

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Speaker 1: been a former student at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High You,

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Speaker 1: took an uber to the school carrying his rifle case

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Speaker 1: when an AAR fifteenth style rifle and basically got out

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Speaker 1: in a very calculated and the methodical rampage where he

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Speaker 1: started on the first floor and began shooting at students

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Speaker 1: in the hallways and then through the windows of the

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Speaker 1: classrooms and then you know, went up to the third

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Speaker 1: floor and at the end of the rampage he had

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Speaker 1: killed seventeen people, fourteen of them students, three staff members

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Speaker 1: before before fleeing and eventually he was caught, you know,

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Speaker 1: within a couple hours. So this is a huge, huge

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Speaker 1: event in Florida. It spurred some some gun reformed laws

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Speaker 1: and act and spurred you know, activism by students u

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Speaker 1: and really was sort of this really heartbreaking seminal event

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Speaker 1: for people here in South Florida, and it was one

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Speaker 1: that I think is going to be steered into our

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Speaker 1: collective memories or is it particularly parents for many years

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Speaker 1: to come, even parents that were not involved in the shooting,

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Speaker 1: not even near Parkland, Florida at the time of the shooting.

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Speaker 1: And now every time I dropped my children off at school,

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Speaker 1: I think about Parkland at least once or twice a

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Speaker 1: month dropping them off because Cheryl McCullum joining me, guys

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum, forensic expert, founder, director of the Cold Case

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Speaker 1: Research Institute. She's at Coldcase Crimes dot Org. Cheryl McCollum

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Speaker 1: the way Parkland shooting, and I know Cheryl and Andy

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Speaker 1: Kahn with me along with the rest of the panel.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about the fact that a reality show, it

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Speaker 1: just I feel like I'm eating a dirt sandwich right now,

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Speaker 1: is happening as it relates to the Parkland massacre. I

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Speaker 1: know that's what we're here today talking about. But back

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Speaker 1: to the crime itself, Cheryl McCullum, it was so well

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Speaker 1: thought out and even the getaway how Nicholas Cruz blended

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Speaker 1: in with all the students that we're leaving and just

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Speaker 1: walked away. What more can you tell us about the

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Speaker 1: planning aspects and the crime scene what went down at

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Speaker 1: the Parkland shooting, Cheryl mccollumb. Well, Nancy, he was prepared

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Speaker 1: to do mass damage. He had plenty of ammunition, He

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Speaker 1: had an AAR fifteen. He had planned how he was

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Speaker 1: going to enter the school again. He took an uber

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Speaker 1: so he had a way there. He was going to

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Speaker 1: blend in after the massacre, and he literally walked away

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Speaker 1: and went to McDonald's walked Away Japan. Is the most

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Speaker 1: remarkable thing to me is that he pulled the fire alarm.

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Speaker 1: I mean that shows a hostility, that is without compared

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Speaker 1: to these other crimes. Out of the classrooms and to

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Speaker 1: kill them. Why do you say that? Del Carson joining me,

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Speaker 1: high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville, also in the Florida

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Speaker 1: jurisdiction and former fed as an FBI agent, author of

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Speaker 1: Arrest Proof Yourself. He's at del Carson Law dot com.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead, deal, if you want to elevate your kill count,

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Speaker 1: that's what you do. You put him in the hall

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Speaker 1: way where it's a narrow, confined spacing. You just spray

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Speaker 1: the area until you run out of ammunition to one

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Speaker 1: another day, set around and fire again. And that's precisely

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Speaker 1: what happened Time Stories with Nancy Grace. You know, Doctor

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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, I'm getting to the reality show centered around

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Speaker 1: the Parkland shooting. But doctor Bethany Marshall, renown Psychoanala's joining

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Speaker 1: me out of Beverly Hills at doctor Bethany Marshall dot

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Speaker 1: com and star of Netflix Bling Empire. Doctor Bethany, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to get to the reality show, I promise, But

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Speaker 1: the thinking, I mean, the state doesn't have to prove

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Speaker 1: a motive. And the trial is happening right now on

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Speaker 1: the Parkland shooting. Believe it or not, it's taking this

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Speaker 1: long to go to trial. But that said, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to get to the reality show aspect. But the thinking,

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Speaker 1: what would have led Cruise to do such a horrible thing?

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Speaker 1: I mean, he had already been kicked out of school,

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Speaker 1: off campus, right, Everyone in charge of the school had

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Speaker 1: been told if you see this guy, kick him off.

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Speaker 1: And here he shows up on campus. Everybody knows who

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Speaker 1: he is, and he is walking across campus with a

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Speaker 1: loaded backpack. Gee, I wonder what's in there? Right? You know, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: we don't even have to theorize about what's in his

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Speaker 1: mind because there's so much research about school shooters and

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Speaker 1: it all points to the same kind of motivations he had.

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Speaker 1: They are a heterogeneous group, meaning no to our ali

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Speaker 1: they are not mentally ill. These are normal young men.

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Speaker 1: Usually usually they've had a series of losses, and we

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Speaker 1: know cruises adoptive mother died three months before the shooting. Actually,

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Speaker 1: they are what we call grudge collectors. Every little perceived

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Speaker 1: bad happening in their life. They glom onto, they collect,

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Speaker 1: they perseverate, They obsess about those until they have built

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Speaker 1: a case against society. They always have what I've said

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Speaker 1: so many times on your show before, they always adopt

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Speaker 1: a fish and of Aril type strategy, meaning they stand

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Speaker 1: at the top of a staircase, they go into a

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Speaker 1: schoolroom and they lock the doors so that the kids

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Speaker 1: can't get out. They really are seeking a power differential

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Speaker 1: where they are in charge. They have this pathological perception

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Speaker 1: leading up to the shooting, the mass shooting, that they

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Speaker 1: are at the bottom of society and that everybody is

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Speaker 1: against them. So in some strange egomaniacal way, they put

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Speaker 1: themselves at the top by becoming a killing machine. I

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Speaker 1: think it's also interesting that this was on Valentine's Day,

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Speaker 1: the day where we celebrate love, and these shooters often

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Speaker 1: feel they have the misperception of being profoundly unloved. Was

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Speaker 1: usually like in the case of this killer, there are

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Speaker 1: plenty of resources and people around them to support them,

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Speaker 1: but they feel unloved anyway, and they taken out on society.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Priya Banerjee is with ME board certified forensic pathologist

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Speaker 1: with anchor forensic pathology consulting doctor prea. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. All of these victims, nearly twenty shooting

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Speaker 1: victims at the hands of Nicholas Cruz, the Parkland shooter,

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Speaker 1: the trials happening right now, knew. I think many of

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Speaker 1: them knew they were dying. They knew they had been

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Speaker 1: in school, that shots rang out, and suddenly they're in

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Speaker 1: the floor bleeding, even with a slow or rapid loss

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Speaker 1: of blood. What would a shooting victim know? Would they

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Speaker 1: hear the screaming? Would they hear the feet running? Would

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Speaker 1: they be aware of their friends trying to crawl out

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Speaker 1: windows and hide behind desks? What would a person a

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Speaker 1: victim like that actually understand? What would they of? What

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Speaker 1: would they be aware? Thank you for having me. I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, I want to step back to something you said,

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Speaker 1: and then I'll address this point. I'm a mom, and

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Speaker 1: you know you and I have dealt with in our

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Speaker 1: professional lives with gunshot victims. The ones with rifles are

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Speaker 1: especially heinous, and I just can't even think about it

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Speaker 1: from a personal level, but professionally, you know, when I

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Speaker 1: think about these kids, kids, and just you know, and

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Speaker 1: a few adults dying unless they're shot in the head,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna feel it, they're going to realize it. It

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Speaker 1: could be quick, it could not be quick. You know,

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Speaker 1: it depends what's injured, but they're going to be aware.

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Speaker 1: It's only once you're shot in the head are you

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Speaker 1: really like, you know, unconscious. But other than that, it's

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine. It's the stress, the last moments of

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Speaker 1: their lives being so traumatic. And they're saying their friends

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Speaker 1: leaving them, crawling out windows, hiding, trying to get out

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Speaker 1: the door, and they're lying, they're bleeding out deactly, No

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Speaker 1: one's they're comforting. Everybody's scurrying away, right, So like, if

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Speaker 1: you're injured, you're sort of left behind. I hate to

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Speaker 1: say it, because it's a flight or fight response, right,

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Speaker 1: And how are you going to fight out? Gun You're

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Speaker 1: going to run away? Doctor Pria. I know you cannot

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Speaker 1: even begin to estimate how many, hundreds, maybe even thousands

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Speaker 1: of gunshot victims you've dealt with. But when you think

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Speaker 1: back on all the gunshot autopsies that you have handled,

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Speaker 1: can you even imagine some vulture vampire sucking the gore

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Speaker 1: out of the Parkland sheeting and creating a reality show.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you've seen the bodies, You've done the autopsies. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's it's camous. I you know, as someone who gets

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Speaker 1: interviewed and done a variety of shows, it's never something

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Speaker 1: you know. I'm always delicate about what I say because

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Speaker 1: it is such. It's an unthinkable loss, and I am

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Speaker 1: honestly speechless, which is a rarity to think that there's

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Speaker 1: a reality show. I don't even understand who wants to

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Speaker 1: profit off of this? You know, it's it's playing at,

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Speaker 1: you know, people's weakest moments. It seems it's just vile

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Speaker 1: to me. Guys, I want you to take a listen

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Speaker 1: to Jeff Marcus, one of the lead attorneys in the

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Speaker 1: prosecution of Nicholas Cruise, questioning Danielle Woodard, are you aware

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Speaker 1: that Richard Moore and Michael Donovan produce a reality TV show?

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Speaker 1: Why does that have to do it anything? Sir man?

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Speaker 1: All of a side whether or not it's relevant. And

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Speaker 1: I don't say the objestion is sustained or tell you

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Speaker 1: not to answer, then you need to answer the question.

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Speaker 1: Thank you A Are you aware of that? No? Well,

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Speaker 1: then if she's not aware of it, why did she say,

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Speaker 1: is this relevant? Because you know when I've got somebody

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Speaker 1: on cross exam and I asked him a question and

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Speaker 1: they turned to the judge side. Is that relevant? That

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Speaker 1: makes me want to know even more about it? Listen

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Speaker 1: one more time listen. Are you aware that one of

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Speaker 1: the episodes of the show was called Being Zachary Cruise? Answer?

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Speaker 1: So one were you? Are you aware that Richard Moore

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Speaker 1: and Michael Donovan have a show where they have an

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Speaker 1: episode called Being Zachary Cruise as a part of a

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Speaker 1: reality show. Are you aware of that too? David vae

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Speaker 1: joining me crime reporter in that jurisdiction in Florida. He's

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Speaker 1: with the Miami Harold. Who is this woman? Danielle Woodard.

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Speaker 1: So Danielle is Nicholas Cruise's biological sister. She did not

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Speaker 1: grow up with Nicholas. Nicholas was born to um, an

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Speaker 1: alcohol addicted, drug addicted prostitute who gave him up at birth.

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Speaker 1: So Danielle's only contact when she would have been about

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Speaker 1: twelve or so, I think when he was born, and

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Speaker 1: she saw him as he was born, and then the

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Speaker 1: baby was immediately whisked away to the adopted parents. So

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Speaker 1: she was the daughter of this of the biological mom,

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Speaker 1: and so she took the stand at in the defense

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Speaker 1: to testify about her mother's behavior. Her addiction her basically

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Speaker 1: drinking NonStop while she was while she had Nicholas in

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Speaker 1: the womb. And the words she said was, you know,

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Speaker 1: she was poisoned in her I'm sorry it was polluted

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Speaker 1: in her womb. So that was the purpose of her testify.

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Speaker 1: She had never met her biological brother outside of that

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Speaker 1: one day, and that was the first time she had

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Speaker 1: seen him. So long story short, it's the shooter's sister.

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Speaker 1: I believe as somewhere in all of that is biology

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Speaker 1: and shooters biological. Isn't it also true? David Avayer joining

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Speaker 1: us in Miami Harold that Nicholas Cruz was then taken

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Speaker 1: in by very very loving family that very often would

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Speaker 1: refuse to have him prosecuted when he would lash out

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Speaker 1: at them in violence. Isn't that true? Yes? Absolutely so.

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Speaker 1: The bio the adoptive mother had a really really difficult

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Speaker 1: time raising him. I mean, he was impulsive and he would,

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Speaker 1: you know, bash the wall. Him and his brother would

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Speaker 1: bash the walls. They would you know, kill animals, they

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Speaker 1: would punch TVs. They were just you know, torment. But

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Speaker 1: she kept him, she kept him, she didn't turn him in,

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Speaker 1: and she kept loving him. So he had a loving

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Speaker 1: home regardless of his birth mother. Isn't that true? Correct?

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Speaker 1: That is that is absolutely true. So this is the

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Speaker 1: Parkland shooters sister on the stand, and I've got to

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Speaker 1: say to you, Cheryl McCollum, forensic expert, We've been through many,

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Speaker 1: many real life trials, not TV trials together. When a

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Speaker 1: witness says, before they answer, is this relevant? Do I

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Speaker 1: have to answer this? That tells me they know darn

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Speaker 1: well what I'm talking about. Oh, they not only know,

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Speaker 1: they don't want it to come out because they think

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Speaker 1: it's going to be detrimental to the person they're trying

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Speaker 1: to protect. And in this case it's the defendant. They

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Speaker 1: keep talking about, you know, he didn't have any help.

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Speaker 1: They keep mentioning that. The brother even posted a letter

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Speaker 1: on social media yesterday about he never got the help

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Speaker 1: he needed. He had teachers trying to help him, counselors,

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Speaker 1: social workers, therapists of course, the foster parents, he had, psychiatrists,

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Speaker 1: all kinds of people trying to help the whole family.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's something that you know needs to

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Speaker 1: be stated out loud. This was not a kid that

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Speaker 1: people gave up on. This is not a kid people

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Speaker 1: didn't try to help and care about. Nancy. Can I

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Speaker 1: put this in context? He had something called fetal alcohol syndrome,

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Speaker 1: meaning the mother drank used drugs during the pregnancy and

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Speaker 1: in the first trimester. The neurons are in the baby's

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Speaker 1: brain that they're not yet assigned. They're like floating around,

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Speaker 1: and so when the mother drinks and uses, it's like

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Speaker 1: they all go to the wrong place. It's a really

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Speaker 1: simplistic way of putting it. So what you see is

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Speaker 1: pervasive developmental problems throughout childhood on the Okay, can't we

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Speaker 1: just pause just a minute, just a minute. I got

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Speaker 1: nearly twenty dead people, children in school on the floor

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Speaker 1: on Valentine's Day, shot dead. I've got a very well

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Speaker 1: thought out plan from mass murder. Well, Nancy, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to hear right now that daddy wasn't there and

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Speaker 1: mommy didn't care. Okay, So just what I could say,

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Speaker 1: I say one more thing, Please, Johnny, you tell the

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Speaker 1: victim's family that, Okay, you tell him that doctor Bethany,

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Speaker 1: I dare you. I dare you, well what I was

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Speaker 1: going to add, Okay, you know what, get it out

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Speaker 1: of your sis? I have to say, we all have

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Speaker 1: choices through our life, and despite the fetal alcohol syndrome,

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Speaker 1: we all have commendous neural plasticity, meaning we change and

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Speaker 1: grow when we get better. And he had many opportunities

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Speaker 1: to change and reform and he did not take up

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Speaker 1: those opportunities. And so I think that's what stands out

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Speaker 1: to me. Did you get it out? Okay? I said?

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Speaker 1: It is all I want to ask. I want to

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Speaker 1: ask a legal question, actually, which is you know I

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Speaker 1: do expert witness work and I'm brought in for my opinion.

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Speaker 1: Why is the sister who has no connection? She's a

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Speaker 1: random Joe Schmo in my mind, other than profiting. Why

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Speaker 1: is she even on the stand. I would love to

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Speaker 1: hear input on that. I can talk about that. I

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Speaker 1: can answer that. Go ahead, David Vaier. She's on the

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Speaker 1: stand because this was not a guilt phase um trial.

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Speaker 1: This was the sentencing phase, right, So this is basically

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Speaker 1: all the mitigation and in Florida, so she's there too

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Speaker 1: help powder brother. Yeah, basically got it. And this is

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Speaker 1: sort of like a character with this kind of thing

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Speaker 1: got to Dell Carson, high profile lawyer joining side of Jackson,

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Speaker 1: a former FBI agent. I think I heard you jumping

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Speaker 1: in what well? This is? This is mitigation, and it's

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Speaker 1: a defense presenting all the reasons he shouldn't be put

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Speaker 1: to death. Okay, thank you. Can I now say, doctor

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Speaker 1: Bethany's got it out of her system? Doctor Priya has

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Speaker 1: done any legal question my pathologist Delle Carson, Uh, Cheryl,

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Speaker 1: anything you want to gette your system before I finally

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Speaker 1: get to go to Andy Kahn. Absolutely. He made a

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Speaker 1: video prior to the massacre where he said he notorious.

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Speaker 1: His brother Zach visited the crime scene multiple times to

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Speaker 1: the point the police had to charge him with trespassing.

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Speaker 1: He wanted his brother's fame, he wanted his brother's attention,

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Speaker 1: and he has figured out a way to do it

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Speaker 1: on some TV reality show. But I'm gonna tell you

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Speaker 1: why it's gonna fail. It's gonna fail because you take

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Speaker 1: one child. Nancy, one of those fourteen victims, had parents, siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, teachers,

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Speaker 1: classmates that survived, neighbors, coaches, Sunday school teachers, scout leaders,

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Speaker 1: dance and music teachers, parents of their friends, mom and

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Speaker 1: dad's co workers, possibly a whole church congregation. One child

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Speaker 1: represents a thousand people, and then you times that by seventeen,

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Speaker 1: and then you times it again the outlier people who

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Speaker 1: hear about it, and then you times it again the

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Speaker 1: people that aren't affected. We didn't know anybody personally, but

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Speaker 1: I'm a mama first, so I'm affected by every one

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Speaker 1: of these victim Sharyl McCall, I'm a set. I think

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Speaker 1: about Nicholas Cruse, the Parkland shooter, maybe once or twice

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Speaker 1: a month after I dropped the children off. Well, let

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Speaker 1: me just give a full confession. That doesn't count all

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Speaker 1: the times I go back over there during the day.

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Speaker 1: This is drive through. See everybody's see if anyone's walking

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Speaker 1: around the backpack trying to open a door, someone that

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Speaker 1: I've never seen before. Just I don't know what I'm

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Speaker 1: looking for exactly, but whatever it is, I want to

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Speaker 1: catch it. I want to see an open door that

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Speaker 1: I can close on the side of the school. I

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Speaker 1: really leaves me with the feeling like I don't know

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Speaker 1: exactly what I'm looking for, but I have a sense

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Speaker 1: of dread because of people like Nicholas Cruz that will

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Speaker 1: probably never go away. Joining me right now is a

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Speaker 1: long time friend, a specialist who inspired me in my

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Speaker 1: first book. Objection. Andy Kahn, Director Victim's Services Advocacy, crime

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Speaker 1: Stoppers Houston at Crimestoppers dot Org on Facebook, Andy Kahn

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Speaker 1: and Crimestoppers of Houston insta at Andy Victim Advocate. Andy,

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Speaker 1: please take a listen to our cut ten. Do you

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Speaker 1: think it would be appropriate to capitalize on the murders

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00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: of fourteen children and three staff members at Margarete Stone

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Speaker 1: and Douglas High School by filming or creating a reality

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Speaker 1: show based on being the brother of a mass murderer. Okay, ma'am,

404
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 1: don't answer the question of sustaining the objection Old Andy

405
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: jump in. You know, Nancy, I've been doing this a

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Speaker 1: long time, thirty plus years. I've been monitoring the industry,

407
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: which I labeled murder Billiard offering from crime by selling

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00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: your personalized items. Quite frankly, this is the first I

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Speaker 1: have ever seen of a reality show based on a

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Speaker 1: mass murderer and school shooter. That's about stoops to the

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Speaker 1: lowest level I've seen and from a victim's perspective, And

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Speaker 1: I serve on the board of parents and murder children

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Speaker 1: and surviving family members of homicide and have worked with

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Speaker 1: homicide survivors for over thirty years. This is about as

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00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: nauseating and disgusting as you can imagine when you find

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00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 1: out the person who murdered one of your loved ones

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Speaker 1: is now hawking a reality show for pure profit. This

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Speaker 1: is blood, money, plain and simple shame on this family.

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Speaker 1: The other issue that I really take umbrage is what

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Speaker 1: kind of message are you sending out to other would

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Speaker 1: be want to be copycats that are going, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: if he can do this, I can get my fifteen

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Speaker 1: minutes of frame, and everybody's going to be watching what

424
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: I do. Nobody should care or give a bleep a

425
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: bleep about what Nicholas Cruise is or any of his

426
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: so called family members have to care. You want to

427
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: do a reality show, do a reality show on the

428
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: seventeen victims that have to live every day without their

429
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: loved one. Go ahead and film them going to the

430
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: grave site. Go ahead and film them with an empty table,

431
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,239
Speaker 1: with an empty seat at the dinner table. Time and

432
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: time again, we continue to give killers, mass murderers, and

433
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: school shooters like Cruise the infamy and immortality they richly

434
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: don't deserve by committing some of the most horrific, despicable

435
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: crimes known the mankind. This is about as low as

436
00:29:49,560 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: it gets. Time stories with Nancy Grace Andy Kahn joining

437
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: me out of Texas. Andy, do you remember when you

438
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: and I first met? I did, oh, I'll never forget it.

439
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: Brought you to my office and I said, look what

440
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: I got in my duffle bag. That's exactly I was

441
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: going to ask you. After we met. We were talking

442
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: about Andy Kahn, create created the phrase murderabilia, the term

443
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: he coined the term murderabilia, and we were talking about it,

444
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: and he said, what you got to see what's in

445
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: my office? I'm like, great, And I don't remember walking there,

446
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: but I just remember suddenly we were we got there.

447
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: Do you remember what you showed me? I probably showed

448
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: you somebody's hair sample, or pieces of clothing, or a

449
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: fingernail clipping from a California based serial killer would be

450
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 1: my first gut. Could you explain everyone why you showed

451
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: me a toenail? There's an industry which I discovered that

452
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: was primarily being it's an offshoot of the true crime genre,

453
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: and you have actual people who make a living from

454
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: procuring items from high profile killers, serial killers, mass murders,

455
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: and school shooters. So they solicit items like letters, autographs, artwork,

456
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: they can get pieces of their clothing. I've got in

457
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: my office five different hair samples from serial killers, including

458
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: Charles manson the Air that was sold in the form

459
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: of a swastika. A California serial killer named Roy Norris

460
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: has his fingernail clippings for sale. His partner, Lawrence Bittaker,

461
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: had his prison issued socks. And these guys were so

462
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: sadistic they actually recorded their victims screams on tapes so

463
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: they can relive them over again. You have seven dealers

464
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: throughout the country essentially make a living from selling items

465
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: from serial killers, mass murderers, and school shooters. The only

466
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: item I've ever seen prior to this inane reality show

467
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: that's being pedal was a few days after the Parkland

468
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: school shooting, somebody was trying to sell rocks from the

469
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: school that they picked up from where crews had at

470
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: mowed down seventeen victims. So until then, it's been relatively

471
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: silent until now. I just can't fathom what must be

472
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: going through the family members realizing that they're capitalizing on

473
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: the gruesome, horrific deaths of their love. I actually hope,

474
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: Andy Kahan, that the family members don't know. Is it

475
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: common knowledge? David Avayer joined me from the Miami Herald.

476
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: Does everybody know about this? I don't think so. I

477
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: think it's it's a pretty pretty minor and I don't

478
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: know about that. I just hope that it hasn't been

479
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: publicized to the point that, well, you know what, they're

480
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: going to find out about it one way or the other.

481
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: I know that I hate that they're going to find

482
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: out about it ever, but they will. Guys, take a

483
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: listen to more on this scheme that has given birth

484
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: to a reality show relating to the park Land school

485
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: shooting massacre. Are you aware that Richard Moore has sent

486
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars this year alone to Nicholas's cruise commissary account.

487
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: I'm not aware, But how do you know it's only him?

488
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: Zachary has his own money too. Just turning asked the

489
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,479
Speaker 1: questions and answer the questions. Okay, if you don't understand,

490
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: you can say I don't understand, or can you repeat it?

491
00:33:53,640 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: But you can't just fire back your off. Okay, are

492
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: you aware of that? Um, you just saw me, so

493
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 1: you know, it seems like she knows more than she's

494
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: letting on. And her denials themselves speak volumes. Okay to you,

495
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: del Carson. Is very easy to trace. Who sends money

496
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: into a serial a mass shooters account, is it not?

497
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: It's very easy to figure that out. That's not a

498
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,760
Speaker 1: problem at all because you're required to notify the correction

499
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: facility precisely who you are and where the money's coming

500
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: from to make a church not proceeds from crime or drugs.

501
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: So yes, easy to do. So it's happening. The reality

502
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: show as it relates to the Parkland school shooting massacre

503
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: is happening here. This promo made the way. I ain't

504
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: never afraid. He's going to move humanity forward. To smile

505
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: alone on that warm the hardest hurts. You're hearing the

506
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: music the intro to quote being Zach Cruz. This is

507
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: Nicholas Cruz's brother. You know I heard the music and

508
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: I hear him saying this kid can move humanity forward.

509
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: What about the victims' families? What about those children that

510
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 1: are gunned down? Take a listen to our friends at

511
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: crime online dot Com Zachary Cruz was allowed to meet

512
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 1: with his brother at the police station after the shooting.

513
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: After that, Zachary was accused of becoming fascinated with his

514
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: brother's so called fame. Zachary Cruz was charged with prespassing

515
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 1: himself after being warned to stay away from the shooting site,

516
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,240
Speaker 1: he visited at least three times. In the police report,

517
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 1: Zachary told police he had gone to the school to

518
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 1: reflect on the school shooting and soak it all in.

519
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: Prosecutors said, however, that Zachary had been quote heard observing

520
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: how popular Nicholas's name is now and questioned whether the

521
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 1: fame would help attract female attention. Zachary was given six

522
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: months probation for trespassing. After Zachary Cruise's brush with the law,

523
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 1: he was taken under the wing of Richard Moore More,

524
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: along with his husband Mike Donovan, co founded mond servicing

525
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 1: company Nexus. The pair reached out to help the then

526
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 1: eighteen year old Zachary moved from Florida to Virginia to

527
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: live with a couple and their son. They had never

528
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 1: met prior to the massacre. Moore has attended some of

529
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 1: the trial. He has said before that While he doesn't

530
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,240
Speaker 1: approve of what Cruise did, he believes that nobody should

531
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: face this alone. On Monday, prosecutors told the jury that

532
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 1: Moore had sent thousands of dollars of commissary to Cruise

533
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: in prison this year alone, to David de Vayer joining

534
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 1: us mistigate every reporter of the Miami Herald, why is

535
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:58,280
Speaker 1: this guy more funneling thousands of dollars to the Parkland shooter. Well,

536
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 1: that's a question that we would love to have heard.

537
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: He was supposed to testify as part of this trial,

538
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: when it turns out that defense ended up resting early.

539
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: So they Yeah, we really don't know other than he

540
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: sort of seems to kind of like the limelight. I mean,

541
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: you've been on the media a lot, He's been on

542
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: local TV. He's sort of interjected himself into this whole thing,

543
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: taking care of Zachary Cruz, the brother. Um, so yeah,

544
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: it's it's sort of a weird dynamic. And you know,

545
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: you keep way behind the reality show. Yeah, he's the producer,

546
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: and yeah, it would seem so okay, well will you

547
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: make that Cheryl McCall, Yeah, I gotta jump in, Nancy.

548
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 1: It's like he won't fame by proxy. So to me, again,

549
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 1: this show will fail. And I'm going to take an

550
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 1: opposite position of you. I believe the families absolutely need

551
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: to know about it because they need to make anybody

552
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: that is a potential sponsor of this show to know

553
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: that there's gonna be repercussions if you get involved with

554
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: this guy and you support this show in any way

555
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: that they well, you're right. They need to be sure.

556
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: Boycotted what I said that. I mean, I hate for

557
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: them to hear them. I get you because I know

558
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 1: it's going to amen. Amen, But do they need to

559
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 1: know you're absolutely right, Andy Kahn. So these guys, this

560
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: this couple, they glow'm on to Nicholas Cruz's brother Zachary,

561
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: who is obsessed with the Parkland shooting. They are trespassing

562
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: conviction for because he wouldn't stay away from the scene.

563
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: They take him, they move him in with them. They

564
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: funnel thousands of dollars into the shooter's prison account, and

565
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 1: now they're creating a reality show as it relates to

566
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: the park Land shooting. Help me, Andy Kahn. First thing

567
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 1: Florida Department of Corrections needs to do. In like all prisons,

568
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,800
Speaker 1: there's prison rules that stipulates you can't operate a business

569
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: unless you have approval of the prisons, and there's no

570
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: way in hell prison officials are going to allow this

571
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 1: to be on the approved level, so they need to

572
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: seize any moneys from his commissary account ill gotten proceeds

573
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 1: from this. This is just the beginning of the merchandising

574
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: and marketing of Nicholas Crews, and they're going to come

575
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: out of the woodwork, especially wherever he ends up, and

576
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 1: if he does end up on death row, all the

577
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: vultures are going to be reaching out to him. So

578
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: Florida needs to be prepared for an onslaught of people

579
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: trying to get Nicholas Crews to send them items out

580
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 1: there to be sold for profit. But this is something

581
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: that they need to get a handle on now because

582
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: it's coming and this is just the first wave of

583
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: it right here. I am not surprised because the true

584
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 1: crime genre has exploded, and Cheryl McCullum was spot on

585
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: the victims families. Either they are aware of it or

586
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: they will be made aware of it because most victims

587
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: family will actually have a Google alert on the offender,

588
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 1: so they get notified of any proceedings and news. So

589
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 1: it's best that they get a prize of what's happening

590
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: now as opposed to being being shocked when they get

591
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,439
Speaker 1: a camera put right in front of their face. You're

592
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 1: both right, You're both right. I guess as a crime

593
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: victim myself, I know how much it would hurt me

594
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: to find out a reality show had been concocted of

595
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: my fiance's murder shortly before our wedding, and I just

596
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: hate for them to go through any more heartbreak. But

597
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 1: you and Cheryl are absolutely right. Andy completely Florida law.

598
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: There's a Florida law that prevents people from profiting when

599
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: they're in custody and convicted to something. Oh well, Dale Carson,

600
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 1: you know you're as smart as lawyers. I know they're

601
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 1: going to say, this isn't about park Land. This is

602
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: about Nicholas Cruz's brother. And of course, to you, Andy

603
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 1: Kahn went better way to get the cooperation of Nicholas Cruz,

604
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: the park killer, than to funnel him thousands of dollars

605
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 1: and have his brother, his blood brother, his bio brother

606
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: under their roof. Nicholas Cruz is the name that draws

607
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: people in period, and so you've got to remove him

608
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: from the equation. You've got to totally eliminate his name

609
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 1: from getting out there. And I think that's one good

610
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 1: thing that the media has done lately is by refusing

611
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: to name mass murderers and school shooters, and that's something

612
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: Florida officials need to do. A sap David Avay A

613
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,879
Speaker 1: Miami Harold, Where does the trial stand right now? So

614
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: where the trial stands now is as the state is

615
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: ready to embark on its rebuttal case, the defense is

616
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: actually asked the judge to recuse ourselves, and the reason

617
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: being is that when they announced that they were deciding

618
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 1: to rest their case, the judge got into a really

619
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: tept the little argument with the defense, the main defense lawyer,

620
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: and they kind of got into it. And so now

621
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 1: they're saying, because she was very critical of their decision

622
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: to rest, that she is not fair and that they

623
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 1: don't think they can get an impartial judge on the

624
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,439
Speaker 1: case the rest of the case goes forward. Well, that's

625
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 1: certainly putting perfume on the pig ending a little early.

626
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: Dave Vayer, the defense said they were calling eighty witnesses.

627
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 1: They I believe called about forty, so they cut their

628
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:34,919
Speaker 1: case in half. We wait as justice unfalse Nancy Grace

629
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: crime story signing off