1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday. We have another birthday Saturday classic today. Pauline 2 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: Sabin was born April seven. She was one of the 3 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: most visible leaders in the fight for the repeal of 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: prohibition in the United States. This episode originally came out 5 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: on February, so enjoy Welcome to Stuff You missed in 6 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: History Class, a production of I Heart Radio. Hello, and 7 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. I'm Polly Frying and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. 8 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: So Tracy and July of last year, we did a 9 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: two partner about Carrie, a nation temperance activists, and I 10 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: think a lot of people enjoyed those. Uh. You know, 11 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: she's one of those interesting figures. Uh. And in her 12 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: life story, the battle over temperance largely became sort of 13 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: a battle of the sexes, at least the way it 14 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: was being framed by her and her associates, which is 15 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: that women were serving as the moral voice of sobriety. 16 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: And that was due to a lot of women in 17 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: the movement having experienced abuse or abandonment or other misfortunes 18 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: due to the drunkenness of the men in their lives. 19 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,839 Speaker 1: But not in all women were anti alcohol. And today 20 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about a woman who is often 21 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: credited as being one of the major activists behind prohibitions 22 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: repeal in the United States. We also had to shout 23 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,759 Speaker 1: out to Amanda for suggesting this one and say hi 24 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: to Amanda and her mom Lynn, because they have corresponded 25 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: with us a bit. Uh and it's a good idea. 26 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: So we're going to talk today about Pauline Saban. So. 27 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: She was born Pauline Morton on April seven in Chicago, Illinois. 28 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: Her parents were Paul and Charlotte good Rich Morton, and 29 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: the family already had a really significant legacy before Pauline 30 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: was even born. Yeah, she definitely came from sort of 31 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: a moneyed, important family. Her grandfather, Julius Sterling Morton, had 32 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: been a senator and eventually was elected governor of Nebraska 33 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: and he then served under President Grover Cleveland as the 34 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: U s Secretary of Agriculture. So if you are a 35 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: fan of Arbor Day, you can thank Pauline's grandfather for that. 36 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 1: He founded that day as a way to acknowledge the 37 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 1: importance of trees, and now that day is actually celebrated 38 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: on his birthday, which is April and her uncle, Joey Morton, 39 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: actually founded the Morton Salt Company, which continues today. Pauline's 40 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: father also served in a number of high profile and 41 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: influential roles, including Secretary of the Navy under President Theodore Roosevelt. 42 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: He also made a living as a railroad executive and 43 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: president of a life insurance company. In nine seven, then 44 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: twenty year old Pauline married j. Hopkins Smith Jr. And 45 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: this was no small affair. Teddy and Edith Roosevelt, the 46 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: philanthropist Andrew and Louise Carnegie, and socialite Caroline shermerhorn Astor. 47 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: We're all in attendance, so this is clearly if you're 48 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: high profile society event. The marriage, however, only lasted seven years, 49 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: but during that time Pauline and her husband had two sons, 50 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: Paul Morton Smith and Jay Hopkins Smith, the third. Pauline 51 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: did not stay single for very long after that marriage 52 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: was over. She divorced Smith in nine fourteen and then 53 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: remarried two years later. This time the groom was president 54 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: of JP Morgan's Guaranteed Trust company that was Charles Hamilton Saban. 55 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: That same year that they married, they built Babery Land 56 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: on Long Island, South Fork. This sounds to me like 57 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: a an amusement park. It is not. It is not, 58 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: although if you're into high society and beautiful landscaping, it is. 59 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: It's really kind of a famous home. There was a 60 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: lot written about it. That custom home was one of 61 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: the grandest in the area. Uh. It was built on 62 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: a two and fifty acre waterfront estate, and the architect 63 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: John Walter Cross and the landscape designer Marian Krueger Coffin 64 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: worked pretty closely together to create what turned out to 65 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: be a spectacular show piece. And they started, as we said, 66 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixteen, the same year they got married. But 67 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: once it was completed in nineteen nineteen, it was really 68 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: a home that was focused on entertainment, and Pauline was 69 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 1: known for throwing the very best parties, and because she 70 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: moved in very exclusive circles, she often entertained politicians as 71 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 1: well as captains of industry. A few years into her 72 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: second marriage, Pauline also started to get involved in political causes. 73 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 1: In nineteen nineteen, she was elected to the Suffolk County 74 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 1: Republican Committee, but that was just the beginning. In nineteen twenties, 75 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 1: she joined the New York State Republican Committee and in 76 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty one, she founded the Women's National Republican Club. 77 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: She was president of the Women's National Republican Club from 78 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen to nineteen twenty six, and this is an 79 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: important time because it was during this tenure that the 80 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: Nineteenth Amendment, which was passed by Congress in June nineteen 81 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 1: nineteen and gave women the right to vote, was ratified, 82 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 1: and that happened in August eighteen of eighteen twenty. In 83 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: the ninety four she became the first woman to serve 84 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 1: as a representative to the Republican National Committee. The Eighteenth Amendment, 85 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: which prohibited the manufacturer, sale, and transportation of alcohol in 86 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: the United States, was ratified on January twenty ninth, nineteen nineteen. 87 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: And initially Saban was actually a prohibition supporter. She felt 88 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: that her sons would benefit from living without the temptations 89 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: and potential problems of drinking, but eventually she turned around 90 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: on this. She realized that all that prohibition had really 91 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: done was create an underground industry of bootleggers, and as 92 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: someone who often entertained and particularly entertained politicians, she grew really, 93 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: really weary of seeing so called dry politicians who spoke 94 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: out against drinking and supported prohibition, but then we're perfectly 95 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: happy to go to her home and want to drink there. 96 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: One thing that really pushed Pauline Saban over the edge 97 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 1: in terms of becoming a vocal opponent of prohibition was 98 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 1: a woman named Ella Bool and this was the leader 99 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: of the Women's Christian Temperance Union. And part of the 100 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: rhetoric that Boule routinely employed when speaking in favor of 101 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: Temperance and prohibition was that she spoke for all women 102 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: in speaking out against the dangers of alcohol. Boule said, quote, 103 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 1: women are relieved of the fear of a drunken husband. 104 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: Children no longer hide with terror as they see their 105 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 1: father reeling home. The whole United States is happier because 106 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: the liquor traffic is an outlaw. I think it's important 107 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: to note that when people say things like women blah 108 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: blah blah, like, they're not generally literally speaking for every 109 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 1: woman on the planet. And we all know this. But 110 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: that's not the only thing that she was doing. She 111 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: she The story goes that when appearing before Congress, in 112 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 1: stated quote, I represent the women of America, and Pauline 113 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: Saban thought to herself, Well, lady, here is one woman 114 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: you do not represent. Yeah, that story comes up over 115 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: and over in retellings of Saban's life. I think she 116 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: mentioned it in an interview, and in June, Saban wrote 117 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: an article for the publication Outlook titled I Changed my 118 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: mind on Prohibition. She wrote quote, I was one of 119 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: the women who favored prohibition when I heard it discussed 120 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: in the abstract, but I am now convinced that it 121 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: has been proved a failure. In a later interview, she 122 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: also said quote, I began to see that whether my 123 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: boys drank or not was my responsibility and not the governments. 124 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: In n Pauline Saban broke with the Republican National Committee 125 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: despite misgivings over the prohibition issue. Pauline remained in the 126 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: Republican Party through the presidential election, and that pitted Californian 127 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: Republican Herbert Hoover against New York Democrat Al Smith. Hoover, 128 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: who campaign as a dry candidate, had stated while campaigning 129 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: that he would look into the prohibition issue, but then 130 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: once he was in office, it was not the priority 131 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: that that Pauline that Pauline Saban had hoped that it 132 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: would be for the new president. In Hoover's inaugural address, 133 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: given on March fourth, nine, he spoke to uphold the 134 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: law of the land by adhering to the eighteenth Amendment. 135 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: He said, quote, no greater national service can be given 136 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: by men and women of goodwill who I know are 137 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: not unmindful of the responsibilities of citizenship. Then they should, 138 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: by their example, assist in stamping out crime and outlawry 139 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: by refusing participation in and condemning all transactions with illegal liquor. 140 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:39,359 Speaker 1: So instead of investigating prohibition, he appointed George W. Wickersham 141 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 1: to study criminal justice in America. This is a careful 142 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: step around actually having to deal with prohibition, precipitated by 143 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: political favor that he owed to the various Dry senators. 144 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 1: But the move led directly to Pauline Saban resigning from 145 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: the Republican National Committee to form her own group. And 146 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: we're to talk about that group in just a moment, 147 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: but first we will have a word from one of 148 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: our fab sponsors. After Saban left the Republican National Committee, 149 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: she then founded the Women's Organization for National Prohibition Reform 150 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: or w o n PR, and that group was focused 151 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: entirely on repealing prohibition, and if someone less connected had 152 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: made this move, it might have fallen flat. But because 153 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: of Pauline's savvy about political relationships and her vast network 154 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: of friends in very high places, the prohibition reform movement 155 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 1: really gained some traction under her stewardship. I'm part of 156 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: the success of her efforts was that, even though she 157 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: was from high society, she wanted the organization to represent 158 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: women from every walk of life. These are women that felt, 159 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: as she did, that elible and the Women's Christian Temperance 160 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: Union didn't speak for them, and this is a smart move. 161 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: Temperance advocates often used language that cast the working class 162 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: and immigrants as part of the problem, but the w 163 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: n p R welcomed all women and united a lot 164 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: of women who normally wouldn't agree on very much politically. Yes, 165 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: since this was their only talking point, there was not 166 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: really much to cause any strife within the organization because 167 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: there were women from both sides of the political spectrum 168 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: and everywhere between. That thought, prohibition is really not working 169 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: out how we thought, And it did start initially though, 170 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: with women much like Pauline herself, who were wealthy white socialites, 171 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 1: but Once the w o NPR was officially launched under 172 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: a one women strong advisory Council, the effort was made 173 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: to reach out to that broader range of women. Their 174 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: argument for repeal of the eighteenth Amendment was centered around morality. 175 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: While those who had campaigned for prohibition did so under 176 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: the rhetoric that alcohol was withering the moral fiber of 177 00:10:56,559 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: the country, Saman's organization argued that prohibition essentially doing the 178 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: exact same thing by making hypocrites of everyone. Additionally, they 179 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: recognized the danger of unregulated liquor that was being consumed 180 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: during prohibition, but they never spoke out against temperance specifically. 181 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 1: They merely made the case that alcohol's illegality had just 182 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: made it all the more alluring. Yeah, that was to me. 183 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: It seems like a very uh savvy and careful move 184 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: to go. No, it's fine if you think that people 185 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: should never touch alcohol, but this law is making a problem. 186 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: And the law was definitely made up making a problem. 187 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: I mean we should make There was a lot of 188 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: crime and lawlessness and bootlegging and people dying from tainted 189 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: illegal liquor. It was a lot. Yeah, there's no secret 190 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: about how you know that whole entire secondary kind of 191 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: underbelly culture that grew up around it had so many problems. 192 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 1: And she references a little bit later in a moment 193 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: that we're gonna talk about, but basically, uh, the w 194 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: O NPR felt that governed mental regulation of behavior in 195 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: this matter was problematic rather than beneficial. And additionally, all 196 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: of that personal hypocrisy was to the minds of those 197 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: who turned against prohibition, eroding the stature of the Constitution 198 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 1: and the law of the land every time the ban 199 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: on alcohol was publicly supported and then privately ignored. To 200 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: make their case and convince the public, the women of 201 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 1: the Women's Organization for National Prohibition Reform worked like any campaign. 202 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,319 Speaker 1: After all, Saban and other wealthy women involved in the 203 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: organization had also helped all kinds of political campaigns before 204 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: focusing on the repeal of prohibition, and because of the 205 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: wealthy members of the organization, funding for these campaign efforts 206 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: continued well after the stock market crash of nine nine, 207 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: when a lot of other social organizations just did not 208 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: have any more money. Yes, since this was kind of 209 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: a special interest group privately funded by people that had 210 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: a lot of money, and it wasn't all tied up 211 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: in just the stock market. They kind of sailed through 212 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,719 Speaker 1: pretty unscathed, and within the first year of its existence, 213 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: the New York chapter of the group was fifty thousand 214 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: members strong and it's snowballed from there. There were marches, speeches, 215 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: and rallies. A huge motorcade was organized by members Christina 216 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: Holmes and Mabel Chall that started at Fifth Avenue and 217 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: Street and then traveled through Manhattan. According to the book 218 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: Women and Repeal, which was written in ninety four by 219 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: Grace C. Root, one of the motorcade participants described it 220 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: this way quote. Gaily decorated motor cars, varying in design 221 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: from open roadsters to elaborate limousines, all bearing Repeal banners 222 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: and heralded by state troopers on motorcycles, swept through the 223 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: main streets. Loudspeakers amplified the addresses of the various speakers, 224 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 1: while our pioneer organizer, Mrs Adrian Locke Langley kept up 225 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: a constant valley hue the street crowds. The crowds from 226 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: the factories and after theater audiences found the appeals convincing, 227 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: and an ever increasing numbers signed our w O NPR 228 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: membership cards. As with any hot button issue, though, there 229 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: were detractors and criticisms of w O n p r's work, 230 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: and sometimes these actually came from fellow supporters of prohibition repeal. 231 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: Frank R. Kent of the Baltimore Sun wrote an article 232 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: for Scrubner's magazine in the late summer of ninety two 233 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: that criticized the w O NPR and specifically Mrs Sabin. 234 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: He pointed out that she had supported Hoover even though 235 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: he was a dry candidate, and that her leadership of 236 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: the organization had been inconsistent. He wrote, quote, after she 237 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: had exhorted her adoring followers at many she luncheons and 238 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: tease to put repeal above everything else. This flaming angel 239 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: of the wet cause voted for the dry Hoover and 240 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: against the wet Smith. He went on to describe what 241 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: would seem to the readers who have been something of 242 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: an exodus from w O NPR by frustrated members. And 243 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: here's how he wrote about that quote. Then one morning 244 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: there appeared a list of sixty members of the organization 245 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: who said that both parties now stand for repeal, that 246 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: they objected to their organization being made a partisan agency 247 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: that in these critical times to make the position of 248 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: a candidate on control of the liquor traffic the sole 249 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: test of his fitness for the presidency was very bad. Indeed, 250 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: hence they advocated each individual voting for the man she 251 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: considers the best qualified to lead the nation. The names 252 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: on this list were just as socially important as Mrs Sabans, 253 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: some of them more so, which was the reason for 254 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: the split. So long as all the socially prominent ladies 255 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: strung together, such as the nature of the human female 256 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: that pursued by the not so socially prominent was pretty 257 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: much assured. But when they divided, so did the others, 258 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: and the sad spectacle was presented of a nullifying rupture 259 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: in this women's organization which had done so much to 260 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: force both parties to abandon prohibition. That article made Pauline's 261 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: been real mad um. And she was this really interesting 262 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: figure in that she was very I don't know if 263 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: demure is the right word, but she was very well spoken. 264 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: She carried herself with grace, she followed all of the 265 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: rules of being, you know, a society woman. But she 266 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: also did not back down from moments like these when 267 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: people she felt were unfairly and completely falsely criticizing her organization. 268 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about her response to Mr. 269 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: Kant's article when we come back from a little sponsor break. 270 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: So before the break, we said that Pauline Saban responded 271 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: to Frank R. Kent and his article that the w 272 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: O NPR was experiencing this huge fissure in its membership, 273 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: and she wrote him a lengthy letter. She told him 274 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: that she didn't even found the organization until May, so 275 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: her support of hoover In couldn't have offended its members 276 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: as he suggested. And she plainly stated that the women 277 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: of the organization decided by a vote that they quote 278 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: would support only those candidates for public office who favored 279 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 1: the repeal of the Eighteenth Amendment to went on to 280 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: dismantle his claims point by point, including giving him details 281 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: on how their membership did experience a small dip, but 282 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: that it was not an indicator of the health of 283 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: the organization, stating, quote in regards to squeals of indignant 284 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: protests were heard as a result of our action, I 285 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: want you to know the truth. That is, we have 286 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: had less than one and fifty resignations since we took 287 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: that action, and that our membership has grown from one million, 288 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: fifteen thousand to one million nineties six thousand since that meeting, 289 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: an increase of over eighty thousand. Her closing paragraph reads 290 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,439 Speaker 1: as follows. We are really trying to do our best, 291 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: and I'm sorry that you feel so ornery about us. 292 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: Aren't you with us? As Seneca's pilot apostrophizing Neptune in 293 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: the it's of a storm, I can say, oh, Neptune, 294 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: you may sink me if you will, You may save 295 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: me if you will, but I have held my rudder true. 296 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: This sparked it back and forth of correspondence between Saban 297 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: and Kent about the best way to achieve repeal, and 298 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: Pauline Saban was polite, but she never backed down and 299 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 1: told Kent that she looked forward to the pleasant surprise 300 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: he would get when repeal was ratified by what we're 301 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: considered to be quote, hopelessly dry states. And she was 302 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 1: right in that their membership was just growing and growing, 303 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: because before long there were more than one point five 304 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: million women in the Women's Organization for National Prohibition Reform. 305 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty, she appeared before the House Judiciary Committee 306 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: to speak on the matter and said quote, in pre 307 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,959 Speaker 1: prohibition days, mothers had little to fear in regards in 308 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: regard to the saloon as far as their children were concerned. 309 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: A saloon keeper's license was revoked if he were caught 310 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: selling liquor to minors. Today and any speakeasy in the 311 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,400 Speaker 1: United States, you can find boys and girls in their 312 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: teams drinking liquor. And this situation has become so acute 313 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: that mothers of the country feel something must be done 314 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 1: to protect their children. And continuing her high profile advocacy, 315 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: on July eighteenth, ninety two, Pauline Sabin was on the 316 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,719 Speaker 1: cover of Time magazine. The article within was titled a 317 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: Woman Crusader for the Wet Cause, and a drawing of 318 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 1: Mrs Saban that was done to illustrate the article is 319 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 1: now in the National Portraits Gallery collection. She appeared in 320 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: other publications throughout the country after her time cover, and 321 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 1: in one she posed the moral quandary and raising children 322 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: under prohibition quote, settlement workers tell us that drunkenness has increased, 323 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: not decreased. That's what the settlement workers say, not the 324 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: professional drives. The increase of drunkenness as a parent, particularly 325 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: among the young. The young see the law broken at 326 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,439 Speaker 1: home and upon the street, can we expect them to 327 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: be lawful? And she really did convince a lot of 328 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: people with her her discussion of this and how morally 329 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: messed up the whole situation had become. And then we 330 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,199 Speaker 1: get to nineteen thirty three, which was incredibly busy for 331 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 1: Pauline Saban. That year she co chaired fear Ello LaGuardia's 332 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 1: campaign for Mayor of New York and LaGuardia did win, 333 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 1: and more importantly, per Apps, that year the w O 334 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 1: NPRS mission was achieved. The twenty first Amendment was introduced, passed, 335 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 1: and was ratified in December, and the text of that 336 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: amendment reads Section one, the eighteenth Article of Amendment to 337 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,719 Speaker 1: the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed. Section 338 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:43,199 Speaker 1: to The transportation or importation into any State, territory, or 339 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: possession of the United States for delivery or use therein 340 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: of intoxicating liquors in violation of the laws thereof is 341 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: hereby prohibited. Section three. This Article shall be inoperative unless 342 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the 343 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: Constitution by Conventions in the sub States as provided by 344 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: the Constitution within seven years from the date of the 345 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: submission here of to the States by the Congress. The 346 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: Women's Organization for National Prohibition Reform immediately disbanded. Their work 347 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,439 Speaker 1: was done, and Saban didn't want the organization to drag 348 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: on looking for some other focus. Yeah, there had been 349 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: other groups that she had seen, activism groups that had 350 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: kind of had that problem where it's like, Oh, we 351 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 1: have all these people mobilized and ready to take action 352 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: on on our goals, and maybe we should keep that together. 353 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: And she's like, Nope, never works. But nineteen thirty three 354 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: was also, unfortunately a year of loss because Pauline Saban's husband, Charles, 355 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: died once again. She did not remain single for particularly long. 356 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: She married Dwight F. Davis in ninety six. She also 357 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: campaigned for LaGuardia's reelection that year, and like a lot 358 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: of the men that she had grown up with, Davis 359 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 1: had an impressive list of positions that he had served 360 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: for nineteen to nineteen twenty nine. He had served as 361 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 1: Secretary of War under Calvin Coolidge. Immediately after that, he 362 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: was the Governor General of the Philippines, and that was 363 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: the position that he held until nineteen thirty two. In 364 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: nineteen forty, Pauline became the national director of the Volunteer 365 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: Forces for the American Red Cross, and that organization, while 366 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 1: she was serving as a national director, actually used her 367 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 1: massive estate that we talked about in Long Island for 368 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: storage of some of their supplies. At nineteen forty two, 369 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: her husband was Director General of the Army Specialist Corps, 370 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 1: and this necessitated a move from Long Island to Washington, 371 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 1: d C. Before that time, the couple had lived on 372 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: the baby Land estate, but they left it to settle 373 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: in the nation's capital, and Pauline remained active. She became 374 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: a decorating consultant for the White House during the Truman administration. 375 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: But a few years after the move, in November of 376 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: nineteen forty five, Pauline's third husband, Dwight, died, and Pauline 377 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: didn't move back to Long Island. She decided to stay 378 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. After that. Yeah, this seemed to 379 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: surprise some people because Babery Land had really been built 380 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: to her specifications. It was basically her dream home. She 381 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: loved it deeply, and so I think a lot of 382 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: people expected her when Dwight passed away to just move 383 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: back there, but she did not. U Instead, she sold 384 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: a plantation that she owned through family holdings in South 385 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: Carolina for thirty five thousand dollars and eventually she actually 386 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: sold Babery Land for one thousand, two d fifty dollars 387 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: and those property sales were what funded her retirement. Pauline 388 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: Saban died on December. She was buried in Southampton next 389 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: to her second husband, Charles Saban. That's always one of 390 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: those things that, uh, I think many people wonder about, 391 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: like what happens when you've been married multiple times when 392 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: you pass like which spouse are you buried with? And 393 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: clearly she loved bay Berry Land and Long Island so much. 394 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 1: I have no idea what her her thinking was in 395 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 1: terms of which husband, but I think it had a 396 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: lot to do with the place as well. In that case, 397 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: I might may have just been where she had the 398 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 1: plot exactly exactly. Uh. I just wanted to acknowledge that 399 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: sometimes those are complicated decisions, and you can't always assume 400 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: anything based on where someone uh decides that their remains 401 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: should end up interred. And it seems like the best 402 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,880 Speaker 1: way to really wrap up Pauline Saban's life and acknowledge 403 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 1: her impact would be through the words of one of 404 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: her closest colleagues. At the w O N p R 405 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: and at the organization's fourth National Convention, the first Vice Chairman, 406 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,719 Speaker 1: Mrs Nichols said the following words about Pauline Saban. Quote, 407 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: without your vision, Madam Chairman, this organization would not alone 408 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 1: have perished. It would never have come into being. Without 409 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: your wisdom and your guiding hand, it would never have 410 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: grown to maturity, and without your courage and your fixity 411 00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: of purpose, it would never have sailed a charted core 412 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,439 Speaker 1: where the c's were stormy or reached port. At last, 413 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: we believe that the historians of the future will rightly 414 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: appraise the contribution which this organization has made to the 415 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,360 Speaker 1: cause of good government. With that, we are not concerned 416 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: for the moment. But if the historian be a wise 417 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: one and seeks an explanation for the phenomenal upheaval which 418 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: has taken place in public opinion within a short time, 419 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: he will find that the answer lay in the dynamic, 420 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: radiant and above all loving personality of Pauline Saban. Hey 421 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: so much for joining us on this Saturday, since this 422 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,959 Speaker 1: episode is out of the archive. 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