1 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 2 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb. 3 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 2: And I am Joe McCormick, and it is Saturday, so 4 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 2: we are heading down into the vault for an older 5 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 2: episode of the show. This one originally published on April ninth, 6 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, and it's called In the Name of Osiris. 7 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 2: I think it was a follow up of our series 8 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 2: on Osiris. 9 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: That's right. This one, I believe, mostly revolves around things 10 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: in the scientific realm that are just named after Osiris 11 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:33,520 Speaker 1: but are still fun to talk about. 12 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 3: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 13 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 14 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. Last week 15 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: on the show, we did a two parter about the 16 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: ancient Egyptian underworld fertility god Osiris, and today's episode is 17 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: kind of a spin off of that. Well, I think 18 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 1: you're going to have more fun if you go into 19 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: this episode with some familiarity regarding the mythology in question. 20 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: So I would say, if you have a choice in 21 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: the matter, yeah, go back and listen to the two 22 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: previous episodes about Osiris the God and surrounding mythology. Go 23 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: ahead and listen to those, but it's also not completely necessary. 24 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: The basic gist here is okay, Osiris is a mythological 25 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: figure who continues to resonate with people around the world, 26 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: and even his name has this kind of regal mystery 27 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: to many of us. Just to say the name allowed Osiris, 28 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: you know, it kind of summons a certain amount of 29 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 1: mystery and I don't know, strangeness and power into the 30 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: room with you. And scientists are far from immune to 31 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: such charms. So we have various things in the scientific 32 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: and technological world that are named after him. In some 33 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: cases we're talking about highly tortured acronyms. Other times there 34 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: seems to be, you know, even less connection. So we're 35 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: not going to touch on everything in the scientific and 36 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: technological world that is named after Osiris. There are some 37 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: things we're not going to get into, like there is 38 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 1: an exoplanet that is nicknamed Osirius, not officially named Osiris. 39 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: But we are going to talk about two things in particular. 40 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:19,679 Speaker 1: You know, it's an opportunity to chat about some very 41 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: deserving science in the name of Osiris, as you know, 42 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: as well as some scientific tidbits that we might not 43 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: otherwise have discussed. 44 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 2: Right, So, first up, I wanted to talk about a 45 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 2: couple of aspects of Osiris REX, which was the name 46 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 2: of an asteroid sample return mission operated by NASA, as 47 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: well as the original name of its associated spacecraft, but 48 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 2: it has since been resurrected with a new identity. It 49 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: has now been reborn as Osiris APEX. I'll explain that 50 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 2: in a minute. 51 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: Well, that sounds really cool too, and I mean, if 52 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: nothing else, this is just an awesome name for a 53 00:02:59,240 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: space mission. 54 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to discern the mythological significance of going 55 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 2: from Rex to APEX. I guess that would be like 56 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 2: going from Osiris the King to Osiris the Peak. 57 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: That's what Apex means. I think in either a case, 58 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: I mean it is fitting to name things in space 59 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: or sent into space after Osiris, given the ancient Egyptians 60 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: fascination with the stars. 61 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 2: Fair enough, So I'll start with just a very short 62 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 2: rough sketch of the mission history and then come back 63 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 2: and talk about a couple of aspects of it. So 64 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 2: Osiris REX launched in September twenty sixteen, and in twenty 65 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 2: eighteen successfully achieved a deep space rendezvous with its target, 66 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 2: an asteroid called one oh one nine five five Binu 67 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 2: b NNU. The spacecraft spent roughly two years after that 68 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 2: orbiting Binu, mapping its surface, doing analysis of the asteroid 69 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 2: from orbit, and trying to select an ideal landing zone, 70 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 2: which proved a bit more difficult than had originally been anticipated. 71 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: In October of twenty twenty, o Cyrus Rex managed to 72 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 2: touch down on the surface of Binu and collect a 73 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 2: sample of its regolith. The regolith is the rocky outer 74 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 2: soil covering the object. But it was not like a 75 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 2: full landing where it sat down and chilled for a while. 76 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 2: It was a touch and ghost sampling operation, so it 77 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 2: touched down, it sort of poked the asteroid with a 78 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 2: mechanism called its sampling arm, so it had kind of 79 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 2: a leg or a limb that came out below it 80 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 2: that poked down into the asteroid's regolith, did a blast 81 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 2: of nitrogen gas to try to stir up some of 82 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 2: the soil, captured a bunch of it, and then blasted 83 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 2: right back. 84 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: Off its kind of like a mosquito. 85 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: Didn't land for as long as a mosquito, though, it 86 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 2: was more like if a mosquito just had to kind 87 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 2: of like jab you and then retreat. Gotcha, like if 88 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 2: a mosquito would fly down, poke you hit your blood 89 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 2: vessels under the skin with a blast of nitrogen gas, 90 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 2: cause a little sort of explosion of blood, and then 91 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 2: just suck up a bunch of that as it is 92 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 2: bouncing back off of your skin. But anyway, the sampling 93 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 2: was successful. It got a significant amount of the material 94 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 2: from Binu, and then it lifted off and returned to Earth, 95 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 2: which and so the spacecraft didn't fully return to Earth, 96 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 2: but it had a capsule that was for the sample return, 97 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 2: which touched down on Earth. I think it landed in 98 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:42,679 Speaker 2: Utah in September twenty twenty three, and the asteroid soil 99 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 2: sample was intact and it was ready to be studied. 100 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 2: So that is something we now have in the possession 101 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 2: of Earth scientists who have already gotten to work analyzing 102 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 2: it and doing science on the basis of it. 103 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a pretty impressive technological achievement, you know, not 104 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: even just all the details of just making sure everything 105 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: lines up just ride here. 106 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 2: In many ways, I mean, there are a lot of 107 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 2: things that are hard about doing a mission like this, 108 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: So of course there is, just there are the navigational 109 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 2: challenges of trying to intersect with a small, fast moving 110 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 2: object in space, like an asteroid. There is once you 111 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,679 Speaker 2: get there, the selection of the landing zone, this difficult 112 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 2: touch and go maneuver, to try to capture a piece 113 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 2: of the asteroid some soil from it without contaminating it, 114 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 2: to get that safely back to Earth on intact and uncontaminated. 115 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 2: And then also things people might not even think of. 116 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 2: For example, when the spacecraft and the probe were conducting 117 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 2: their operations on the asteroid surface, that's not something that 118 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 2: like a human pilot can operate in real time with 119 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 2: a joystick because it's so far away. There's a significant 120 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,919 Speaker 2: travel time for information back and forth between mission control 121 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 2: here on Earth and the probe. So essentially these these 122 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: maneuvers had to be pre programmed so that the probe 123 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 2: could carry them out on its own, because there wouldn't 124 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 2: be enough real time exchange of information for like a 125 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 2: human pilot to see what's happening in the moment and adjust. 126 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 2: You have to like make sure you've programmed it correctly 127 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 2: in advance, and it can do what it needs to 128 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 2: do without you being able to intervene. But anyway, after 129 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 2: the successful conclusion of the Osiris Rex mission, the spacecraft 130 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 2: was given a new mission and a new name to 131 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 2: rendezvous with and study the asteroid nine nine nine four 132 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 2: two Apofice, and, in keeping with its new role, the 133 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 2: new name Osiris APEX. So, as you previewed a minute ago, 134 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 2: rob Osirius Rex is an acronym. It's one of these 135 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 2: kind of I always wonder how these things exactly come 136 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 2: together when, like, you know, you select all the things 137 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: and they're supposed to stand for what it actually does, 138 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 2: but then it makes a word that already exists, and 139 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 2: you're like, that didn't happen by accident? Who organizes the 140 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 2: acronym formation process? 141 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, it's like it's one of these 142 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: situations where you sort of you get in within spitting 143 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: distance of a really cool word, and then you start 144 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: turning the screws to get it a little closer, you know, 145 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: because you're not hitting Osiris rex, you know, first try 146 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: with no manipulation. 147 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 2: Certainly not so it's not without it being an Osiris miracle. 148 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 2: But okay, So it stands for origins, spectral interpretation, resource identification, 149 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 2: and security regalith Explorer, So those parts of the name 150 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:46,559 Speaker 2: are basically a summary of what Osiris Rex was meant 151 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 2: to study or what types of questions it was meant 152 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 2: to help illuminate. So, for example, origins refers to the 153 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 2: fact that the target of the mission is what has 154 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 2: sometimes been called a time capsule. Asteroid. Binu was selected 155 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 2: because it is thought to be a pristine four point 156 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 2: five million year old, carbon rich asteroid that has been 157 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 2: preserved in essentially the same condition since the Solar System 158 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 2: was formed. So by looking at what it's made of, 159 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 2: we can learn more about the early days of the 160 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 2: Solar System and learn about the initial distribution of things 161 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 2: of various minerals and organic compounds and things like that. 162 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 2: It'll help teach us more about how the Solar System 163 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 2: was formed and give us points of comparison between it 164 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 2: and other objects in the Solar System that have been 165 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 2: changed more over time. And so the spectral interpretation part 166 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,319 Speaker 2: this refers to the use of spectral analysis and astronomy 167 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 2: looking at patterns of light colors reflected off of an 168 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 2: object to determine its composition. The respectral analysis of Binu, 169 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 2: of course, and there is spectral analysis of asteroids, even 170 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,359 Speaker 2: just from scopic observatories to try to determine their composition, 171 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 2: so it would help illuminate those questions as well. There 172 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 2: is a resource identification in the name that's understanding the 173 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 2: chemical and geological makeup of a carbon rich asteroid. The 174 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 2: security in the name is an interesting thing, you might think, Wait, 175 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 2: what is this referred to security? Well, that refers to 176 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 2: security for the whole of Earth, because it turns out, 177 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 2: of all the asteroids we know about today, Binu is 178 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 2: one of the most potentially dangerous to our planet. Binu 179 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 2: passes near to Earth about once every six years, and 180 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 2: scientists have calculated that in the year twenty one eighty two, 181 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 2: its path will bring it close enough that there is 182 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 2: about a one in twenty seven hundred chance of a 183 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 2: collision on that pass. So you can get some relief 184 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 2: from the relentless like asteroid bound for Earth headlines in 185 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 2: that when it comes to the larger known space objects 186 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 2: and the most troubling ones won't get close to us 187 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 2: for a long time, and even when they do, based 188 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 2: on what we know today, the chances of a direct 189 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 2: hit are like one in several thousand at worst. Now, 190 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 2: how bad would it be. If Binu did hit Earth, 191 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 2: it would be not as bad as some impacts in 192 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 2: Earth's history, but it would be quite bad. Benu is 193 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 2: about half a kilometer wide with a mass of about 194 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 2: sixty seven million metric tons, so it would probably not 195 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 2: be large enough to cause worldwide calamity. It wouldn't be 196 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 2: like the you know, the object associated with the death 197 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 2: of the non avian dinosaurs. It would not be like 198 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 2: the KPg extinction object, but it would It would be bad. 199 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 2: It would be extremely locally destructive depending on where and 200 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 2: how it hit. So part of the mission was also 201 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 2: focused on studying the forces acting on the trajectory of 202 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 2: asteroids so we can better predict their course over time, 203 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 2: because probably the thing we need to best understand in 204 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 2: order to defend Earth from dangerous near earth objects is 205 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 2: a very accurate prediction system for the future movements of 206 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 2: space objects. Right now, we can predict with pretty good accuracy, 207 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 2: but over time that accuracy degrades. Right, so the farther 208 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 2: out into the future you're looking, the harder it is 209 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 2: to predict how close something is going to be. And specifically, 210 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 2: the Osiris REX mission was looking at the influence of 211 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 2: something called the Yarkovsky effect, and to do a short 212 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 2: summary of that, when an asteroid is flying through space 213 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 2: and rotating. This is specifically for a rotating object, its 214 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 2: surface goes through patterns of heating and cooling depending on 215 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 2: which side is facing the Sun. So as one side 216 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 2: of the asteroid faces the Sun, it gets star baked 217 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,719 Speaker 2: and it heats up, and then as the asteroid rotates, 218 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 2: the hot side turns away from the Sun and cools, 219 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:07,839 Speaker 2: and that cooling means the asteroid is radiating infrared photons 220 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 2: into space. This radiation actually provides its own small amount 221 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 2: of thrust, so as it's radiating that heat off into space, 222 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 2: there's a bit of a push created there, and the 223 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 2: effect is fairly small, but for relatively small objects and 224 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 2: affecting the path over large periods of time, it can 225 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 2: make a big difference. This does affect the asteroid's path 226 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 2: through space, which makes it harder to predict the orbit 227 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 2: of a rotating asteroid farther into the future, and that's 228 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 2: something that we need to be able to do if 229 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 2: we want to identify threatening near earth objects and protect 230 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 2: Earth by potentially pushing them off course. 231 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: Right right, which to your point is essential with objects 232 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: that we already know are going to get maybe a 233 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: little too close for comfort. Anyway, we need a note 234 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: like to what degree these estimates can be off? You know, exactly, 235 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: how how much sway there is in the movement of 236 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: one of these asteroids in our predictions exactly. 237 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,959 Speaker 2: And then finally, so that's the Osiris part of the name. 238 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 2: That finally there's the REX part that stands for Regolith Explorer, 239 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 2: and this is the sample return aspect of the mission. 240 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 2: So Osiris REX was the first successful US mission to 241 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 2: return a sample from an asteroid. That was not the 242 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 2: first such mission worldwide. Actually, the first successful asteroid sample 243 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 2: return was carried out by the Japanese Space Agency. That 244 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 2: was the Hyabusa probe, which got a sample of small 245 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 2: dust grains from an asteroid called twenty five one three 246 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 2: Itokawa and return to the material to Earth in twenty ten. 247 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 2: Though Osiris REX is not just a duplicate of that 248 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 2: mission because it targeted a different type of asteroid, and 249 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 2: also Binu was able to get a lot more just 250 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 2: mass of material returned to Earth for us to work on. 251 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 2: Now here's something about the naming of this asteroid that 252 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 2: is kind of backwards, of which is kind of the 253 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 2: opposite of what you might expect. The asteroid Binu got 254 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 2: its name by association with the Osiris REX mission, so 255 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 2: it was originally called nineteen ninety nine RQ thirty six, 256 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 2: but in advance of the mission in twenty thirteen, the 257 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 2: Planetary Society held a competition to name the asteroid, and 258 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 2: a kid from North Carolina who is nine years old 259 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 2: at the time named Mike Pusio came up with the 260 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 2: idea of naming it Binu, which was the name of 261 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 2: a pre existing deity from Egyptian mythology, an animal formed 262 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 2: god often depicted as a long legged bird, though there's 263 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 2: some dispute over which natural bird, if any, it's supposed 264 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 2: to correspond to. I'll talk about that a bit more 265 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 2: in a minute. But Pusio apparently picked the name for 266 00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 2: the asteroid because of the Osiris RECX probes resemblance to 267 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 2: a long legged bird and rob if you look, I 268 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 2: attached an image of the spacecraft here for you to 269 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 2: have a gander at. I can see this here, so 270 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: the solar panel flaps are very much like wings. 271 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, excellent. You know, I got to hand it 272 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: to this nine year old. This is a great space 273 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: nerd and a great mythology nerd, two great nerdoms for anyone, 274 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: especially this at this age. 275 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 2: Now we're getting a little off track of the mission here, 276 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 2: but I actually got interested in the concept of Binu itself, 277 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 2: and the context of this episode is the Egyptian mythology. 278 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 2: So I wanted to follow this tunnel under the pyramids 279 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 2: for a moment. So Binu, you can if you're looking 280 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 2: this up. It's sometimes as the god's name is spelled 281 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 2: Binu with two ends or Banu with one n so 282 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 2: b in U. Sometimes the asteroid is with two ends. 283 00:16:55,760 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 2: It is a figure associated with the creation of the 284 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 2: world and with the creator Sun God. And for what 285 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 2: I'm about to discuss. My main sources Geraldine Pinch's Handbook 286 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 2: of Egyptian Mythology. So, according to Pinch, in some Egyptian myths, 287 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 2: Binu is said to be the oldest creature living during 288 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 2: the creation of the world, when a hill of dry 289 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,199 Speaker 2: land was first raised out of the darkness, out of 290 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 2: the waters of chaos, the Binu bird landed on this earth. 291 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 2: So it was the first living animal, and its cry 292 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 2: was the first sound. The moment of its cry marked 293 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 2: the first moment of time, and the cry of the 294 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 2: Binu bird will also sound again at the end of 295 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 2: the world to mark the time when all order will 296 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 2: again descend into chaos. The Binu bird seems to have 297 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 2: been related to, or possibly the inspiration for, the Greek 298 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 2: myth of the phoenix. In the Egyptian context, there was 299 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 2: a binu bird that was believed to dwell in Heliopolis, 300 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 2: and kings would pray to the bird for the renewal 301 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 2: of strength after they had been in power for thirty years. 302 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 2: And here I just want to read a section from 303 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 2: Pinch on the connection between the Binu bird and Osiris 304 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 2: as well as another major god from the pantheon. Quote, 305 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 2: both Ray and Osiris could be identified with the Binu bird, 306 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 2: an expression of the secret knowledge that these two gods 307 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 2: were one. As a manifestation of Osiris, the Binu bird 308 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 2: led the spirits of the dead through the dangers of 309 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 2: the underworld. Some spells in the Book of the Dead 310 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 2: aim to assist the dead to transform themselves into Binu 311 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 2: birds so that they can travel freely between worlds. 312 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: All right, so a kind of psycho bomb. 313 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 2: Here, Yeah, I think it's interesting that you would get 314 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 2: both that so the binu could be a creature that's 315 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 2: sort of a guide because remember in you know, there 316 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 2: are different visions of the Egyptian and afterlife. But in 317 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 2: some views of this, you know, it's an adventure. It's 318 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 2: like a journey that you have to go through and 319 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 2: face obstacles along the way. And there is also there's 320 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 2: the famous judgment, the weighing of the heart against the 321 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 2: feather of mott. But there are also, you know, the 322 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 2: these trials you must go through, like facing facing dangers 323 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 2: throughout the landscape of the dead, and the Binu bird 324 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 2: here apparently apparently could be a guide in that process. 325 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 2: But you could also, if you knew the right spells, 326 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 2: just turn into a binu bird, which seems even better. 327 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 2: Now coming back to whether this bird has a counterpart 328 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 2: in nature, Early texts describing the binu bird seem to 329 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 2: be talking about a yellow wagtail, which is a small 330 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 2: bird that eats insects and tends to seek out wet, 331 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 2: open countries such as marshland. However, Pinch notes that in 332 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 2: later art the binu bird is depicted somewhat differently as 333 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 2: a huge heron, and this is why you'll see pictures 334 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 2: of a hair and often if you google Binu, this 335 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 2: is I think more New Kingdom art. And I found 336 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 2: a photo of some of this art for you to 337 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 2: look at here rob and the outline here Binu is 338 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 2: a heron that would have been taller than a human 339 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 2: with its neck outstretched, so a very big heron, and 340 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 2: extant herons can get quite large. The still living Goliath 341 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 2: heron or Ardia goliath can reach a height of about 342 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 2: five feet or roughly one hundred and fifty centimeters. But 343 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 2: apparently there was an extinct giant heron that grew even larger, 344 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 2: known today as the Binu heron or Ardia binuids, bones 345 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 2: of which have been found from the Arabian Peninsula dating 346 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 2: back to the third millennium BCE. So this is a 347 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 2: giant heron that would have been alive during human history 348 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 2: here and so this isn't known, but it has been 349 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 2: speculated that this bird could have inspired the iconography of 350 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 2: Binu and thus also perhaps the story of the Fetes. 351 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 2: Fascinating now, how much larger was this like a twenty 352 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 2: foot tall heron? No, it is bigger than any living heron, 353 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 2: but not by a huge amount. I think it would 354 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 2: have been roughly maybe six feet tall, still a big bird. 355 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I mean it just there any kind of 356 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: heron species you encounter in the wild, it's it's kind 357 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: of a breathtaking and magical experience and imagining like the 358 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: largest of herons here, this extinct species. This would have 359 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: been quite an impressive side. 360 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 2: Now, before we move on from Osiris Rex, there is 361 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 2: one interesting thing I wanted to talk about from the 362 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 2: sampling portion of the mission. Apparently this asteroid had some 363 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 2: surprises waiting for us when we got there. So I 364 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 2: mentioned already that the sampling mechanism how work to get 365 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 2: some of the regulith from the surface of this asteroid. 366 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 2: It did not involve a permanent landing, so you didn't 367 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 2: have to worry about that. It was a touch and 368 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 2: go operation, so you would descend, you would poke the 369 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 2: surface with the sampling arm, issue a blast of nitrogen gas, 370 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 2: scoop up a bunch of what was stirred up, and 371 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 2: then blast off and retreat immediately. But despite this, once 372 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 2: we actually reached the asteroid, it proved a lot trickier 373 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 2: of an object to touch down on than was initially 374 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 2: expected because it had been thought that the surface of 375 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 2: Binu would be relatively smooth, or at least have large 376 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 2: smooth patches. I think the asteroid that had been targeted 377 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 2: by the Japanese Hyabusa probe had more kind of beachy areas, 378 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 2: you know, with like smooth, fine grained areas where you 379 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,719 Speaker 2: know you could select a good landing zone. But for 380 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 2: some reason, Binu was when we got there, more of 381 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 2: a sort of a hell of bl It was a 382 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 2: very rocky, bouldery surface, more uneven than expected. So the 383 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 2: team had to very carefully map out the surface to 384 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 2: select an ideal landing spot, and there were not many. 385 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 2: They ended up selecting a place that was known as 386 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 2: the Nightingale Crater. But then there was another surprise waiting 387 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 2: when they actually went to initiate the touchdown and sample 388 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 2: retrieval moment. So the craft was descending and it poked 389 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 2: the asteroid, and then the sampling arm sank. It sank 390 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 2: into the surface. I've seen this described as like poking 391 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 2: into a swamp. Now, of course, it's not actually that 392 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:46,360 Speaker 2: there was liquid water on the surface of Benu. Instead, 393 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 2: it's just that the soil covering its surface was a 394 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 2: lower density than expected, so the sampling arm just kind 395 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 2: of plunged in. I want to read a quote here 396 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 2: from a space Died Calm article by Teresa Pultova talking 397 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 2: about this moment. 398 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 1: Quote. 399 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 2: The descent was smooth, but when Osiris wrex's sample collection 400 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 2: device pressed into the asteroid surface, something unexpected happened. Contrary 401 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 2: to expectations, the surface behaved almost like a swamp. Within 402 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 2: a few seconds, the spacecraft sank nineteen inches or fifty 403 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 2: centimeters deep into Binu. As the sample collection had sucked 404 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 2: in the sample and the spacecraft's backaway thrusters fired, a 405 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 2: huge wall of debris rose from the crater, engulfing the 406 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 2: ascending spacecraft and Rob I've attached some pictures for you 407 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 2: to look at here because there's sort of like an 408 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 2: animation you can look up of this of the spacecraft's 409 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 2: camera had a camera facing directly down along the axis 410 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 2: of the sampling arm, so you're looking down as it's 411 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 2: descending towards the surface, and you can just see when 412 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 2: it touches suddenly it goes and then there's this explosion 413 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 2: and there's just stuff all over the place, and then 414 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 2: it zooms back out and you can see like before 415 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 2: and after images of the crater where it touched down, 416 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 2: where like major rocks and boulders are moved all over 417 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,239 Speaker 2: the place. It just seems like this is you know, 418 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 2: it reminds you that asteroids, especially smaller asteroids like this, 419 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 2: are not necessarily not necessarily solid objects. That it might 420 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 2: be better to think of something like Binu not as 421 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 2: like a solid hunk of rock in space, but like 422 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 2: a big pile of rubble that's loosely bound together by gravity. 423 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I mean even in our descriptions of 424 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: like the size of these things, we compare them to 425 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 1: things like skyscrapers, you know, or how big they are 426 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: in comparison to a car, So we tend to get 427 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: these kind of solid ideas in our mind. Yeah, towards 428 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: to your point, it's more like a big ball of 429 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 1: accumulated space rubble. 430 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. But despite the fact that it was a hell 431 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 2: of boulders and sort of a dry swamp of sadness, 432 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 2: the mission was a success. We got plenty of material 433 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 2: from the surface. I think the initial goal was to 434 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 2: get at least sixty grams and they got well over 435 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 2: That's plenty of material to study. And now the spacecraft 436 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 2: is being repurposed. It is slated to enter the orbit 437 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 2: of the asteroid Apofas in twenty twenty nine. Apophus, by 438 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 2: the way, another Egyptian mythology tie in. 439 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the great serpent, I believe right. 440 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 2: It's a monster god figure associated with chaos and destruction, 441 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 2: kind of reptilian in nature. 442 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Pinch describes it. It's sometimes depicted more like 443 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: a crocodile, but more frequently as a great serpent, and 444 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: it is like it is one of, if not the 445 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: most important chaos monster of Egyptian mythology. 446 00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,719 Speaker 2: But interesting thing to study because Apofus was previous thought 447 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 2: to be an asteroid that may in fact threaten Earth, 448 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 2: but because of the unpredictability of its orbit, when later 449 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 2: we got more precision about its trajectory, it was sort 450 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 2: of ruled out. So for a while people were thinking, oh, 451 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 2: this one might really be a candidate for danger, but 452 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 2: actually now it's it's nothing to worry about, but still 453 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 2: worth study. 454 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And the more we understand how these things 455 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 1: move and what impacts their course, the more we can 456 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 1: protect ourselves, and the more the more information we have 457 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: moving forward. Thus, again the security aspect of the Osiris 458 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 1: rex that we just described earlier. That's Osyrus Rex in 459 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: all caps except for the X, because again it is 460 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 1: a regular explorer at the end. All right, Well, from there, 461 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: the next logical place to go is of course to 462 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: talk about bees, perfect and in general. You know, this 463 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: is a fine area of connection for a nigition god 464 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:06,680 Speaker 1: because the ancient Egyptians were particularly connected with the honey bee. 465 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: As biologist, author and former guests on the show Jeene 466 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: Kritsky points out in his excellent twenty fifteen book The 467 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: Tears of Ray, the honey bee was a pervasive cultural 468 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 1: motif in ancient Egypt, in large part because of their 469 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: perceived connection to the sun god Ray or Raw, whose 470 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 1: very tears were said to be honeybees. And on top 471 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: of this, honey and other bee products like wax were 472 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:35,120 Speaker 1: prized and used for a variety of medicinal, culinary, religious, 473 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: and economic purposes. So again that's the god Ray or Ra. 474 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: And you know, as we already alluded to in this episode, 475 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: there are connections between Ray and Raw and of Cyrus. 476 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: But you may be wondering, okay, are there any specific 477 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: be connections to Cyrus. So I have Kritsky's book on 478 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: the shelf here, so I picked it up, and I 479 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: consulted it once more to see what he had to 480 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: say specific about Osiris. So I'm going to run through 481 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: just a few examples here. The book includes an image 482 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: from the Tomb of Usarat depicting the offering of honeycomb 483 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: to Osiris. So this is Theban Tomb t. T. Fifty 484 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: six in the Theban Necropolis near Luxor New Kingdom period. 485 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: I believe he also has an example He mentions the 486 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: tomb of Minmos, which includes the passage Osiris bee keeper 487 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: of Aman, bearer of incense, minmost justified, possessor of honor 488 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,719 Speaker 1: before the Great God, and this is from the eighteenth 489 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: or nineteenth dynasty, I believe indirectly. The Salt eight twenty 490 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: five Papyrus includes a spell that involves using bees wax 491 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: figures to quote kill the name of Seth, in this 492 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: case used against Seth. But such figurines made out of wax, 493 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: which rarely survived, were seemingly burnt in spells against mundane 494 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: enemies as well. You could use them against great cosmic 495 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: entities like Seth, but you could also use them just 496 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: a guess, against your actual real world enemies. Okay and 497 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: Kritzky also includes some other mentions to support the idea 498 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: that honey or honeycomb. In particular, these were often used 499 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: in temple rituals concerning gods, including the god of Cyrus. 500 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: So are we going to talk about honey bees now? No, 501 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: We're in fact going to talk about a genus of 502 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: bee found only in Central and South America, so completely 503 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: removed from ancient Egyptian culture, but still named after Osiris. 504 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: So the genus Osiris is classified under the Osserini tribe, 505 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: which in turn is classified under the family Apidae, which 506 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: itself contains well over five thousand species of bees. So 507 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: I looked at a few different bee manuals on this. 508 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: Ultimately we're dealing with some bees here that are not 509 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: as well researched, and we'll get into some of the 510 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: research the reasons for that. But as Charles Duncan Mitchner, 511 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: this guy was one of the leading experts on bees 512 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: who have nineteen eighteen through twenty fifteen. He describes them 513 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: in The Bees of the World, Volume one from two 514 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: thousand as klecto parasites. They seem to have likely evolved 515 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: independently of nobindet klepto parasitic bees and this is based 516 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: on various features that they have that are also found 517 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: in non parasitic bees, which are absent in other examples 518 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: of klepto parasitic bees. He points out that Osiris bees 519 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: have relatively thin, but smooth and shiny skins, you know, 520 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: kind of like smooth, shiny exoskeletons, and no protective spines. 521 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: But they do have an enormous sting, and this will 522 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: We'll come back to some of the reasons for this 523 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: as we proceed here, but he writes that quote, parasites 524 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,719 Speaker 1: commonly have stronger stings than their non parasitic relatives. There 525 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: are exceptions to that rule, but by and large you'll 526 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: find that they put far more evolutionary energy is put 527 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: into these kind of like offensive slash defensive weapons. 528 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 2: I already have some thoughts about why that might be, 529 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 2: but I bet you'll illuminate me. 530 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: So the whole gist of klepto parasites, as we've discussed 531 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: on the show before, comes down to the laying of 532 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: one species eggs in the nest of another species. And 533 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: the classic of that example of this from the world 534 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: of birds is of course the cuckoo bird. And here 535 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: we're talking about so called cuckoo bees. This is more 536 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: specifically known as brood parasitism. Another source I was looking 537 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: at for this is a really nice write up on 538 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: the topic on the website Entomology Today by Meredith sweet Walker, 539 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: and it's interesting. As a former avian endocrinologist, she seems 540 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: especially well positioned to compare cuckoo birds to cuckoo bees. 541 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: She points out that cuckoo bees are actually more generally 542 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: as a social parasites as well, because they generally have 543 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: to infiltrate or in some cases anyway we'll get into 544 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: the details here. In many cases we're talking about bees 545 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: that have to infiltrate an entire use social hive structure 546 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: or nest structure in order to deposit their eggs. So 547 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: they can't simply like sneak in, dump their egg and 548 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: run and be like he he, Now you have to 549 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: raise my young. There's a lot more involved here. 550 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 2: Like they actually have to blend in with the hive. 551 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: Right, And I don't want to discredit the complexity of 552 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: cuckoo birds. As we've talked about on the show before, 553 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 1: there's kind of like a mafia esque situation involved there 554 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: as well, with additional so it's not just dump and 555 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: run with cuckoo birds either. But the world of bees 556 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: is different from the world of birds. So she points 557 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: out that in some species of bumblebee, we see and 558 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: we're talking about non parasitic bumble bees here, we do 559 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: see examples of nest usurpation, in which one queen bust 560 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: into the nest of another queen of her same spec 561 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: kills that queen and takes over the brood. So this 562 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,359 Speaker 1: doesn't have to happen, It doesn't always happen, It only 563 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 1: occurs under certain ecological conditions. You could probably compare this 564 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: broadly to things like cannibalism, where you know, you have 565 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 1: species that are not obligate cannibals by any stretch, but 566 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: if conditions are right, they will engage in that behavior. 567 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 2: Right, Obligate cannibalism is impossible, yeah, but you can have 568 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 2: an adaptation that where a certain type of animal is 569 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:35,720 Speaker 2: more inclined to resort to cannibalism if conditions are dire 570 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:36,919 Speaker 2: right right. 571 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,399 Speaker 1: So here with brood parasitism, we do, on the other hand, 572 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: have true kleptoparasite bees that are obligate brood parasites. They 573 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 1: have evolved to depend on the practice absolutely otherwise they 574 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,320 Speaker 1: can't reproduce at all, and obviously all of their efforts 575 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: have to be aimed on another bee species. So that's 576 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: sort of the origin story of how we can get 577 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: to this area where we have obligate brood parasitic bees. 578 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: So cuckoo bumblebees, she points out, can't produce their own workers. 579 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: They lack pollen baskets on their legs. This prevents them 580 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: from feeding their own offspring, and they also can't produce 581 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: enough wax to build their own nests. So without those adaptations, 582 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 1: you know, that kind of frees you up from like 583 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 1: a evolutionary energy standpoint, where do they focus that extra energy? 584 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: Will they focus it into the blunt offensive power needed 585 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: to conquer another brood? So we're talking busting in, overpowering 586 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: other workers, if workers are present, killing the rival queen, 587 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: and then taking over the nest. And what do you 588 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: need to carry this out? Well, in many cases you 589 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 1: need heavier armor to protect yourself, more powerful mandibles, and 590 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: key to what we just said earlier, an enhanced stinger. 591 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: But she stresses that target selection is also key here 592 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 1: because if they go after the if a cuckoo bumblebee 593 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 1: goes after a nest that's too large. The workers are 594 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,240 Speaker 1: just going to overpower her and kill her in self defense. 595 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,319 Speaker 1: And if the nest is too small, while she may 596 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: conquer it, then there won't have there won't be enough 597 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: of a work force to serve her need. So it's 598 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: it's kind of a delicate balance interesting, but ultimately the 599 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: battle and the regicide here is only the first phase, 600 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 1: because afterwards the conqueror has to be able to quickly 601 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 1: de escalate things and convince the colony that she's the 602 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: rightful queen and that work can continue mostly as before. 603 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: And I guess you can. You know, you can easily 604 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: answer morphize here and compare this to you know, examples 605 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: from like military history, like Okay, you're going to conquer 606 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,279 Speaker 1: a kingdom, but now what are you going to rule it? 607 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 1: And what do you have to do in order to 608 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 1: pull that off? 609 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess there's some persuasion involved there. 610 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 1: Right, And so in the world of bees, scent is 611 00:36:54,760 --> 00:37:00,960 Speaker 1: absolutely key with the interloper, the invader, the kleptoparis, depending 612 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,839 Speaker 1: largely on one of two strategies depending on species. So 613 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:09,240 Speaker 1: one strategy is simply scent acquisition. So the cuckoo bees 614 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 1: bumblebees that use this method, they don't have much of 615 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 1: a scent on their own. They're kind of like scent neutral, 616 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,760 Speaker 1: you know, stealth scent, I guess, And they just simply 617 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 1: acquire the scent of the nest they've invaded via contact 618 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: with workers and various nest materials. 619 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 2: Okay, so there's stuff lying around that smells, right, you 620 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,799 Speaker 2: can just kind of like rub yourself on all that 621 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 2: and it'll be good enough. 622 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 1: Right. But the more advanced method here is actual scent mimicry. 623 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 1: And this is a case where the cuckoo bumblebees in 624 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: question actively mimic the chemical cues of the host species. 625 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 2: Wow, I wonder what is the mechanism for doing that, 626 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,879 Speaker 2: being able to like sample a smell and then recreate 627 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 2: it yourself. 628 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, or you know, they have evolved over time to 629 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: prey on particular you know, a particular species or a 630 00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: particular suite of species. I'm guessing here, So yeah, it's 631 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: it's interesting, like in one case, either just simply acquiring 632 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,840 Speaker 1: the necessary sense to command the new environment, or you 633 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: have evolved over time to be able to mimic the 634 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: necessary chemical cues in either case, it is it's fascinating 635 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:20,120 Speaker 1: manipulation of a use social environment. 636 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 2: Yeah. 637 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,840 Speaker 1: Now, Walker strusts that there's much that's not known about 638 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: how these bees function. They're they're pretty understudied. For instance, 639 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 1: it's assumed that workers continue to raise the alien larvae 640 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:47,240 Speaker 1: because at this point their resistance to outsiders in general 641 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 1: has been lowered. But we just don't know for sure. 642 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,839 Speaker 1: And I feel like we might have touched on this 643 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: before regarding parasites in general. But she points out that 644 00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: one of the reasons that brood parasites parasite bees are 645 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 1: under studied in general is that we easily fall into 646 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 1: making a kind of moral judgment about parasites, and so 647 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 1: you often see people who study bees tending to gravitate 648 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,879 Speaker 1: towards non parasitic species, even thinking of them as quote 649 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: unquote true bees, you know, sort of siding with the complex, 650 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,800 Speaker 1: uh sort of you know, use social civilization builders, and 651 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 1: you don't want to side with the the invaders, that 652 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,120 Speaker 1: the thieves and the tyrants. Uh huh. 653 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd go out on a limb and say, these 654 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 2: bees don't know any better. 655 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's I mean, really even I mean, that's the 656 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: thing about the about even a use social uh you 657 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: know bee hive situation. Uh, there's no good or evil there, 658 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,719 Speaker 1: there is just there is just life. There is just 659 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: the uh uh, the will of the hive. But uh, anyway, 660 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 1: getting back to Osirius bees, and again with a huge 661 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 1: caveat that there's a lot we don't know, and that 662 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:59,160 Speaker 1: in general parasitic bees are understudied and Osirius bees as well. 663 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: So Osirius bees are not bumblebees. So a lot of 664 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,400 Speaker 1: what I just said is not going to actually apply 665 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 1: to what we're talking about here. So these bees are 666 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: more wasp like in appearance. I included a picture of 667 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: one individual for you to look at below here Joe, 668 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 1: But anyone else out there, you can easily do a 669 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 1: Google image serch and there various entomology profile pages with images. 670 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:30,239 Speaker 1: They're they're generally pale, sometimes almost yellow or green, and 671 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:34,280 Speaker 1: according to Sam Droge and Lawrence Packer in the book Bees, 672 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 1: an up close look at pollinators around the world, most 673 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,400 Speaker 1: of the time when an entomologist names something after a 674 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 1: god from any mythology, they're basically just sort of showing 675 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,400 Speaker 1: off their knowledge of mythology, you know, just saying like 676 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,960 Speaker 1: you probably shouldn't read too much into the invocation of 677 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 1: any god, much less Osirus in this case, but they 678 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,520 Speaker 1: do point out that the invocation of Osiris is perhaps 679 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 1: kind of on point here given the colorization, because again, 680 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,920 Speaker 1: remember the green skin of Osiris, and with Osiris bees 681 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,280 Speaker 1: the skin is also reportedly often kind of this pale 682 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,600 Speaker 1: green or pale yellowish green color. I don't know that 683 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: that's particularly present in the image that I included here 684 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: for you, Joe, but still I will value the. 685 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,759 Speaker 2: Connection here fair enough. I don't think I've ever seen 686 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 2: a green looking bee. I'd like to see that now. 687 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,359 Speaker 1: As we mentioned earlier, these Osiris bees also pack very 688 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,000 Speaker 1: large stingers, so I think that the species number I've 689 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: seen for Osiris bees is something like thirty two, perhaps 690 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,319 Speaker 1: more than that, but not by a tremendous amount, and 691 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,440 Speaker 1: is mentioned already and is cited as well in Lawrence 692 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,560 Speaker 1: Packer's Bees of the World. Yeah, they have these oversized stingers, 693 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: but they also don't have the extra armor associated with 694 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,800 Speaker 1: various cuckoo bumble bees, so they're actually rather slim and smooth, 695 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:57,360 Speaker 1: so they're not just complete tanks. We might think of 696 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,359 Speaker 1: them a little differently, almost more like a sleek assassin 697 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,839 Speaker 1: with an oversized weapon. Okay, And indeed, that's that's how 698 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 1: Packer kind of describes them. It's kind of an egg 699 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 1: assassin or queen assassin. So they have the greatly oversized 700 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: stinger that's curved, and even the abdomen harnessing the stinger 701 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,480 Speaker 1: is elongated, so it gives them extra reach. So you 702 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 1: can kind of think of like a swordsman using a 703 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,680 Speaker 1: rape year, you know, how they're able to lunge in 704 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 1: and close the distance a lot more effectively. And he 705 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,080 Speaker 1: says that that quote there is evidence that the sting 706 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,880 Speaker 1: is used to kill the host egg. And in the 707 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,440 Speaker 1: book by Packer and Droge, they also point out that 708 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 1: the adaptation could be primarily for dealing with the main 709 00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 1: nest document. They also stress, quote, almost nothing is known 710 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:50,480 Speaker 1: about the makeup of these nest parasites. But it's my understanding, 711 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,440 Speaker 1: based on the context of these descriptions and some details 712 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,480 Speaker 1: about the bees that they seem to target, that these 713 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 1: are not large hives or nests that they're going after, 714 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,960 Speaker 1: but rather they're going after solitary ground nesting. 715 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 2: Bees here, oh okay. 716 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,879 Speaker 1: And thus they don't apparently have to protect themselves from 717 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,000 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of workers. It's not this full blown, 718 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,520 Speaker 1: you know, battle tank invasion like we see in some 719 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,040 Speaker 1: of these cuckoo bumblebees. Instead, it's like, get in there, 720 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,960 Speaker 1: do what you got to do. Stab an egg that's 721 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: already there, kill the the the queen if she is 722 00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,479 Speaker 1: already there and she messes with you. But but that's 723 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:29,239 Speaker 1: the extent. 724 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,600 Speaker 2: Of it, the infiltrator model. 725 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,799 Speaker 1: Yeah. So again with this case, not a lot of 726 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:41,239 Speaker 1: connective tissue between Osiris the god and the thing named 727 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 1: after Osiris. But you know, now that we've talked about 728 00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:48,480 Speaker 1: both Osiris Rex and Osiris Bees, I do see like 729 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,640 Speaker 1: some sort of loose similarities here. Like we talked about 730 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,000 Speaker 1: how the god Osiris is the opener of the way. 731 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 1: You know, he's the he goes somewhere in a sense 732 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:03,080 Speaker 1: that has never been visited before. He makes it possible 733 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,520 Speaker 1: for others to go there as well, you know, brings 734 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:11,399 Speaker 1: knowledge or you know, it is one that journeys. And 735 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,840 Speaker 1: certainly with Osiris Rex, this lines up with some of this. 736 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,239 Speaker 1: You know, goes to a place that we have not 737 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 1: explored before, makes certain things possible in the future that 738 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,360 Speaker 1: are even protective in nature. And I don't know. With 739 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,600 Speaker 1: the Osiris bees. You know, it's a little more if 740 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:31,279 Speaker 1: we're to again anthropomorphized recklessly, kind of sinister. But these 741 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,640 Speaker 1: are bees that open away that venture somewhere else and 742 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,440 Speaker 1: make life possible in a way that it wasn't possible 743 00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: before there, at least for this for their species. 744 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:44,880 Speaker 2: I thought you were going to make the connection between 745 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 2: the Osiris bees and Osiris rex because of the stinger 746 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:49,879 Speaker 2: and the sampling arm. 747 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:51,759 Speaker 1: There you go. I think there's a connection to be 748 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:56,520 Speaker 1: made there, long stinger, long sampling arm. And we were 749 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,239 Speaker 1: comparing mosquitos earlier. But you know, we get into some 750 00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,560 Speaker 1: of the particulars here, and we're often talking about repurposed 751 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:07,520 Speaker 1: ovipositors and so forth. So yeah, I think that's valid 752 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,200 Speaker 1: as well. All right, well, we're going to go ahead 753 00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,319 Speaker 1: and close the book here again. There you'll find some 754 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:16,879 Speaker 1: other things named after Osiris. There are some exoplanets, some asteroids, 755 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:22,480 Speaker 1: some individual craters that are named after Osiris. But I 756 00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:26,279 Speaker 1: feel like these were the most compelling examples to draw 757 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:28,560 Speaker 1: on for this episode. But if you disagree, if you 758 00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:32,640 Speaker 1: have a particular favorite Osiris, or if you in your 759 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,200 Speaker 1: line of work or some line of work you're familiar with, 760 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:40,440 Speaker 1: there is another acronym involving or invoking of Cyrus or 761 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:44,560 Speaker 1: any other interesting Egyptian mythological figure, write in we would 762 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,360 Speaker 1: love to hear about it. Just a reminder that Stuff 763 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,080 Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind is primarily a science and culture podcast, 764 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:53,880 Speaker 1: with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Mondays we 765 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,360 Speaker 1: do listener mail, On Wednesdays we do a short form episode, 766 00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,719 Speaker 1: and on Fridays we set aside most serious concerns to 767 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,640 Speaker 1: just talk about a weird film on Weird House Cinema. 768 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:05,880 Speaker 2: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. 769 00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:07,920 Speaker 2: If you would like to get in touch with us 770 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,520 Speaker 2: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 771 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,560 Speaker 2: a topic for the future, or just to say hello, 772 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,520 Speaker 2: you can email us at contact stuff to Blow your 773 00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:24,040 Speaker 2: Mind dot com. 774 00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:27,040 Speaker 3: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 775 00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,920 Speaker 3: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 776 00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:47,040 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.