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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds and a gay so LGBTQ. I would

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Speaker 1: assume furry group, a group of them furries or people

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Speaker 1: dress up like animals. They got together and hacked the

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Speaker 1: agencies that attack gender affirming care.

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Speaker 2: We have an interesting show today.

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Speaker 1: NBC's John Allen talks Bidenomics and the dynamics of him

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Speaker 1: taking responsibility for the economy. Then we'll talk to Heated's

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Speaker 1: Emily Atkin about our changing climate and what can be

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Speaker 1: done to help our climate crisis. But first we have

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Speaker 1: the host of Fastball, Matt Negrin. Welcome to Fast Politics, Fastballs,

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Speaker 1: Matt Negron.

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Speaker 3: That's the take, because we're keeping it.

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Speaker 2: It's the best.

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Speaker 1: I am the host of Fast So pretty exciting weeks

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Speaker 1: and Supreme Court ruining our.

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Speaker 4: First fly of the day.

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Speaker 3: Pretty exciting week, and.

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court's ruining our country number one, but they're doing

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Speaker 1: it with zeal.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and I'm sorry, just I don't I'm not familiar

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Speaker 4: with your cannon. But are we still referring to the

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Speaker 4: Supreme Court as like a legitimate institution.

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Speaker 2: We call them not the best.

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Speaker 4: That's harsh. Yeah, that's the battle. That's a suation. That's right,

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Speaker 4: really fits the headline in the onion Supreme Court rule,

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Speaker 4: Supreme Court Rules, which is one of the best onions.

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Speaker 4: It's an eight to one decision, and I think like,

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Speaker 4: like Clarence Thomas dissented not because he didn't think it ruled,

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Speaker 4: but just because he thought it was so obvious a

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Speaker 4: rule that they didn't need to have a case and

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Speaker 4: get me to the notion of rolling on it.

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Speaker 1: I would like to mention something which I've like, since

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Speaker 1: we are the United States of Amnesia, no one remembers

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Speaker 1: anything from longer than three years ago, which is like

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Speaker 1: the best part of the whole situation.

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Speaker 2: But there was a time of.

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Speaker 4: Television for sure, because we don't need to we don't

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Speaker 4: need to think about previously on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we forget that there was a time when Justice

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Speaker 1: Thomas did not speak for years.

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Speaker 4: It's kind of like the weird bit you keep going like,

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Speaker 4: you keep it going on for way too long, Like

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Speaker 4: I really committed to this bullshit and everyone's like, oh,

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Speaker 4: I'm the like one person's like, oh my god, Like

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Speaker 4: he's the bringings brownies to work guy, and like, oh,

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Speaker 4: she's the like always has like a fun story about

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Speaker 4: her weird vacation friends. And Clarence is like, I will

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Speaker 4: just not talk for a day and like that was

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Speaker 4: my thing. And everyone's like, we love that about you.

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Speaker 4: We love how you just don't say anything. But I

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Speaker 4: can never talk.

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Speaker 1: Right And once he got those three trumpy justices, he

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Speaker 1: was able to start talking again.

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Speaker 3: Broke his self.

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Speaker 2: Brocus it's right.

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Speaker 4: In a way, he's he is more monkish than all

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Speaker 4: of us. In a way, he's closer to Zen than

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Speaker 4: any one of us could dream to be. He's taking

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Speaker 4: in the bow of silence.

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Speaker 1: He can be zen because he does not have to

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Speaker 1: fly commercial, so you.

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Speaker 4: Know, imagine flying commercial and not saying and not being

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Speaker 4: able to complain.

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Speaker 3: I mean that is the right.

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Speaker 1: But I want to talk to you about Biden today.

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Speaker 1: A reporter asked Biden, this is like my favorite Biden

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Speaker 1: up there. He says, we're not going to let this

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Speaker 1: break us, and then the reporter calls out to him

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Speaker 1: as he's leaving, is this a rogue court?

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Speaker 3: Oh great, because we're not able to.

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Speaker 1: Say, and then Biden says, this is not a normal court.

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Speaker 3: Again, this is not normal. Wow.

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Speaker 4: So but just to be clear, we had the resistance

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Speaker 4: has extended its very clean tentacles to Joe Biden now

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Speaker 4: and he is part of the this is not normal crowd.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm going to fight with you for a minute.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to fight with you here for a minute.

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Speaker 3: Trade So trade barbs, Let's trade barbs.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's have some hardball. Should we have some hardball?

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Speaker 1: Let's play hardball?

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Speaker 5: You know what.

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Speaker 4: I think this brings us to our next segment, hardball,

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Speaker 4: where we talk about fastballs, curveballs, and hardballs.

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Speaker 3: So let's go service with the fastball.

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Speaker 2: So, well, here's my question for you.

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Speaker 1: Biden said two days ago at a fundraiser, he said

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Speaker 1: that he was a Catholic and he was not super

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Speaker 1: comfortable with abortion. And I saw people quite mad about

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Speaker 1: this on the internet, and I wondered, I'm someone who

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Speaker 1: grew up Jewish, atheist communists benchon drawings, I always thought

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Speaker 1: that abortion I.

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Speaker 4: Went to the same I went to the same synagogue.

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Speaker 4: I went to the communist Synegague.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: We didn't belong to a synagogue because that's very bourgeois,

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Speaker 1: and we would never belonged to a synagogue because that

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Speaker 1: would be other Jews there. But I do want to

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Speaker 1: say he said he wasn't comfortable with people very mad

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Speaker 1: at him for saying that, but part of me wondered,

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Speaker 1: And again, I'm like, just thinking about this for a second.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of people who are not comfortable

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Speaker 1: with abortion, but they still believe Roe v Wade should

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Speaker 1: be the loved land, and that's what he said. I

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Speaker 1: don't agree that Biden needs to be as progressive as

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Speaker 1: I am, Like I think part of why by second.

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Speaker 3: Second light of the day.

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Speaker 1: But I feel like part of why Biden won was

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Speaker 1: because there were people who related to this guy who thought, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is a white Catholic guy.

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Speaker 2: Like I'm a white Catholic guy.

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Speaker 4: I think there's no room for the middle of the

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Speaker 4: road garbage, and there's good and bad, and if you

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Speaker 4: say something that's not good, then it helps the bad

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Speaker 4: people in some way. So I'm kind of a binary extremist.

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Speaker 4: I think I get what you're saying that his comment

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Speaker 4: was like not crazy, but at a time when like

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Speaker 4: all the rights are being taken away, I think it's

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Speaker 4: probably good to have the people on the good side

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Speaker 4: just try to like be very firm about what's right

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Speaker 4: and what's wrong.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if it gives like the bad people

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Speaker 3: ammunition that I'm.

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Speaker 2: Making right, But I just wonder. I mean again, and

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Speaker 2: I appreciate your take on this.

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Speaker 3: Yes, no, listen.

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Speaker 2: I mean the question is how do you win? Right?

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's what matters, is winning right.

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Speaker 4: I had a conversation like a while ago after the

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Speaker 4: Rose overturned with someone who was like, everyone's so tired,

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Speaker 4: and I was like, people aren't tired of like fighting,

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Speaker 4: people are tired of losing. We have been thrown into

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Speaker 4: a world in which like we're trying to win this game,

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Speaker 4: but the other side isn't even playing a game. They've

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Speaker 4: like destroyed the board and burned the pieces, and we're

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Speaker 4: still like trying to figure out like what's the best move,

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Speaker 4: and like we're not even playing on like a real

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Speaker 4: table anymore. There's no point in trying to play when won.

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Speaker 2: That is a very good point.

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Speaker 1: And we had just on this podcast just a little

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Speaker 1: bit ago, we had this Minnesota State Democratic Chair or

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Speaker 1: Minnesota has done things and pass progressive legislation in a

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Speaker 1: way that Republicans do shitty legislation in red state, So

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Speaker 1: like they did a school lunches and codified row and

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Speaker 1: protected trans people and like did all our wishless stuff. Like,

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Speaker 1: by the way, this wishless stuff is like take care

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Speaker 1: of people. I know, it's like the most basic thing

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Speaker 1: that children from dying of starvation and poverty, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, Woway, I don't know. I think that might be

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Speaker 4: hear the other side on that before we.

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Speaker 2: Commit a dress climate stage, because some.

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Speaker 3: Kids are just right, like annoying, right.

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Speaker 2: And should they starve to death? I mean, so the

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Speaker 2: question is as.

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court day, talking about the Supreme Court, we have

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Speaker 1: a federal Democratic party that's pretty scared of doing hard things.

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Speaker 4: So do you remember the night that Ruth Vader Ginsburg

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Speaker 4: died or it was announced that she died? Where were

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Speaker 4: you and like who were you texting and what were

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Speaker 4: you like posting?

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Speaker 2: Do you remember that all memes of her? And now I'm.

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Speaker 3: As you would have.

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Speaker 4: Lord, I remember seeing a tweet by I think it

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Speaker 4: was Raisa Oslon who said, like, if they even think about.

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Speaker 3: Replaces ven, you will burn it all down, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there was a lot of there was a lot

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Speaker 4: of that sentiment that like, oh, are we ready for

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Speaker 4: a real like genuinely popular leftist, left leaning whatever revolution

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Speaker 4: where if the fascist right rushes a nomination in and

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Speaker 4: makes the court truly illegitimate, that we will do some

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Speaker 4: sort of never before seen protest or action or concerted

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Speaker 4: organized effort or whatever. I remember being on a call

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Speaker 4: that night with like a bunch of like activists who

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Speaker 4: are like, Okay, here's the message, Like we're gonna support

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Speaker 4: like the Like what were they saying? It was something

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Speaker 4: like really weak, And I was like, what about packing

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Speaker 4: the court? Like isn't that the message now? Like shouldn't

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Speaker 4: we pushed a month before the election, and like there

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Speaker 4: was this like tug of war.

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Speaker 3: Were like what are we going to do about this?

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Speaker 4: And then obviously they replaced her and we didn't brit

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Speaker 4: it down and we were like, well, we have to

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Speaker 4: win at the ballot box, and like that, right, that's

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Speaker 4: that's what you're referring to. I assume when you say

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Speaker 4: the democratic state or whatever is like, yeah, not really

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Speaker 4: willing to do strong things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I Mean the thing that I.

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Speaker 1: Was sort of surprised by was just how here we

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Speaker 1: find ourselves in this situation. The Supreme Court is radically

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Speaker 1: remaking this country from the Dobbs decision last year to

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Speaker 1: the Clean Water Act this year, where this clean Water ruling,

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Speaker 1: which didn't get that much attention, basically states that if

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Speaker 1: these bodies of water are not if you can't see

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Speaker 1: that they're connected, then they're not connected.

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Speaker 2: Right, so it limits clean water.

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Speaker 1: And again, I mean that is such anti science bullshit, right,

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Speaker 1: if I can't see it, then it's not happening. Like

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Speaker 1: that is like the Alido, And that's how Republicans are

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Speaker 1: with climate change. I mean, I just got an alert

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Speaker 1: on my phone that says you can't that it's over

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Speaker 1: one hundred air quality today, So like, but.

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Speaker 3: You can see it in the air, you can't.

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Speaker 2: I can.

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Speaker 1: I can taste it, you know. But so it is

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Speaker 1: a fundamental issue of like.

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Speaker 4: Obviously reality denying. Right, It's like all the fact that

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Speaker 4: they've denied. It's science, it's the election, It's like all

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Speaker 4: these things that are real they deny, they deny reality.

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Speaker 4: And if an institution is voting along reality and non

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Speaker 4: reality lines and they're voting in favor of the non reality,

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Speaker 4: that seems to me that it's definitionally illegitimate. So I

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Speaker 4: think that needs to be kind of like accepted that

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Speaker 4: we should not any longer. I mean really probably shouldn't

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Speaker 4: have since the Bush Gore decision. But that's like a

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Speaker 4: more uninteresting conversation to have. You shouldn't have refferd to

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Speaker 4: it since then, but certainly not now. Like there is

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Speaker 4: nothing legitimate about an institution that knows what is true

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Speaker 4: and decides to, as you said, like deny everything because

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Speaker 4: it's just like better for them, that's right, and the

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Speaker 4: way that they were pushed in is also illegitiate. All

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Speaker 4: of it's terrible.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, earlier times Justice when it was really

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Speaker 1: the Kennedy Court, you know, or was the Roberts Court.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's really like the Kavanaugh Court now, even

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Speaker 1: though Roberts is still the Chief Justice.

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Speaker 3: It's the Beach week Court.

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Speaker 2: It's the Shark week Court.

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Speaker 3: It's Shark week Court.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, it's always every week like sharks.

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Speaker 4: For this one, maybe it's it's very exciting, and then

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Speaker 4: you know, coming up with the fall, like there's going

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Speaker 4: to be a ton of a ton of new decisions

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Speaker 4: and shows coming out. They are not on strike. The

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Speaker 4: Supreme Court Justice Guild is really weak. They have not

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Speaker 4: authorized the strike. Unfortunately we lost them. Yeah, bid that

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Speaker 4: sag DGA and now the Supreme the SCG.

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Speaker 1: But I think it is important. Like during Reconstruction, we

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Speaker 1: had Steve Laddock on this podcast. He talked about how

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Speaker 1: during Reconstruction, the Congress told the Supreme Court to fuck off.

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Speaker 2: And we have a Congress right now that could tell that.

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Speaker 1: I mean not obviously not the GP House, but you

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Speaker 1: know the Senate.

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Speaker 2: Democrats control the Senate. They could tell the Supreme Court

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Speaker 2: to fuck off right now. They could put together all

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Speaker 2: kinds of restrictions. I mean, they could make their they

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Speaker 2: could make justice.

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Speaker 1: Alito's who's the life a living likeliest person to do

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Speaker 1: this in the Senate, like the most liberal White House.

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Speaker 1: Yeah he's not the most liberal, but he's the most

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Speaker 1: obsessed with the court.

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Speaker 3: He is the most obsessed with the court. Yeah. So

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Speaker 3: like he's a he's been in the Senate for.

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Speaker 2: Ten billion years ten he's eight thousand years old.

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Speaker 1: But he's still quite cute and we love him and

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Speaker 1: he comes on this podcast all the time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, right, he's super We don't just judge elected officials

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Speaker 4: based on how they were their looks, but one but

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Speaker 4: he's on yet, but we do sometimes.

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Speaker 1: That's right, And he is he's the aos, he's middle

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Speaker 1: aged women, but.

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Speaker 4: He's also probably an institutionalist. Right, So is that are

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Speaker 4: those the forces at play that would prevent him from

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Speaker 4: taking it.

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Speaker 2: And lead it?

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Speaker 1: I mean at some point, right, I mean that's the question,

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Speaker 1: is alone, right, can you get a durban white house

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Speaker 1: together to bully everyone else to doing it? I mean,

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Speaker 1: if they wanted to, the fact that they're institutionalists, I

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Speaker 1: feel like could be theoretically helpful to getting them to

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Speaker 1: deal with this institution.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that's a good point? I mean, I also.

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Speaker 4: Hate the term institutionalist in the time when I actually

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Speaker 4: don't even believe anything is an institutions. I don't even

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Speaker 4: know that phrase. It's like a really weird like everyone

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Speaker 4: is in it for themselves. They are no institutions.

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Speaker 2: I think in the House that's true, and in the

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Speaker 2: Senate that's less true.

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Speaker 3: Why.

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Speaker 2: I think, because in the House people.

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Speaker 3: Are just isn't Tommy Tuberville in.

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Speaker 1: Well, no, there are except Tommy Tubberville's a dumbit. He

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Speaker 1: is the Louis Gomert of the send.

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Speaker 4: I mean, fact that he can get in is like, Okay,

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Speaker 4: it's not an institution, but.

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Speaker 2: It's Alabama man. I mean Marshall, like Burrow.

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Speaker 4: It's like if they're letting people like me on Riyah,

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Speaker 4: like it's not exclusive.

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Speaker 1: So Taco Carlson starting a media company discussed that was.

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Speaker 4: Not reported in The Lucky Clover because I tried, you

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Speaker 4: need to know more about this. I assume this is

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Speaker 4: about Twitter, like he's on Twitter.

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Speaker 1: Puck reported that Elon Musk is not Elon Musk. I'm

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Speaker 1: sorry that the Tucker Carlson. I don't know why I

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Speaker 1: confuse the two.

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Speaker 3: I don't know why I used two fascists with each other.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that Tucker Carlson is starting a media company. It

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Speaker 1: is he's going to raise a lot of money, he believes,

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Speaker 1: and he's going to make Ben Shapiro really pretty miserable,

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Speaker 1: which I.

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Speaker 3: Guess he's going to make Ben Shapiro his editor in chief.

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Speaker 1: But I think I think that two of them will

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Speaker 1: I mean the one good part of his whole sort

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Speaker 1: of tale.

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Speaker 3: What's the point of the media company?

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Speaker 1: The point is yeah, I mean yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 1: think that would.

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Speaker 3: Like this thing, is it like a fake media company

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Speaker 3: or is it.

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Speaker 1: Wait, what's Devin nuon as this thing like truth Social Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I assume true Social.

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Speaker 2: Some kind of money laundering thing.

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Speaker 4: But that's what I mean, Like it's fake, But is

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Speaker 4: Tucker Carlson's does it have more intention? Like truth Social

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Speaker 4: is a thing that doesn't exist, whereas it's like just

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Speaker 4: for Trump to tweet on and then we see screenshots

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Speaker 4: of it's Tucker's thing, an actual uh, like media enterprise

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Speaker 4: that will produce original content with different hosts like and I.

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Speaker 2: Would assume it's basically the same thing.

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Speaker 3: It's awesome.

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Speaker 4: It's awesome for us in the in the world of

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Speaker 4: people who watch crazy right wingers professionally, we are losing

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Speaker 4: people to watch, okay, like Tucker Tucker fres like, oh

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Speaker 4: my god, Like great, now there's less content to make.

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Speaker 4: So this is great. I embraced this. I think there's

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Speaker 4: like a lot of people out there, you know, the

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Speaker 4: the Aaron Ruperts of the world, the Ason's, Brendan Murphy's,

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Speaker 4: the Nicky McCann. Ramirez is all the media matters crowd. Uh,

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Speaker 4: this is our livelihood, Like, we we need stuff to post.

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Speaker 4: So I'm glad to see that Tucker is giving us

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Speaker 4: the kind of finally acknowledging our role in the media

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Speaker 4: world and giving us things maybe there's new fresh faces

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Speaker 4: into the mix, like propagandas we haven't even heard of.

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Speaker 4: Maybe that like that Charlie Kirk guy will get.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah the best right, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: But not to be too boring here, but I'm just curious,

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Speaker 1: like this right wing stuff tends to be really for

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Speaker 1: an older group. I mean, how do you can't just

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you could start a cable network?

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Speaker 3: Is that still is that still true?

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Speaker 2: I think the I mean I think that.

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Speaker 4: The Joe Rogan phenomena, I don't want to say phenomenon,

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Speaker 4: the Joe Rogan like era of like, yes, the top

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Speaker 4: rated is it even rated? Most popular Spotify playlist post whatever?

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Speaker 4: Is a really unfortunate guy, like someone who gives a

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Speaker 4: voice to white men who feel like they're a victim,

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Speaker 4: has like Jordan like that. So is that not a

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Speaker 4: sign that whatever conservative means, which at this point probably

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Speaker 4: just means like not talking about before, like but it's

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Speaker 4: just like reality denying. It's just like a false victim

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Speaker 4: and whatever. Does that not mean that that's more appealing

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Speaker 4: now to younger people than you know, sixty and up.

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Speaker 4: Because Jordan Peterson has trying to reach young men and

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Speaker 4: giving them a message that will be like hurtful to

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Speaker 4: a lot of non white men, and Joe Rogan is

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Speaker 4: kind of doing the same thing. I think that message

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Speaker 4: is working because they have millions and millions listeners, and

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Speaker 4: but I just know that people listen to Joe Rogan

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Speaker 4: and even man, I this is so hypocritical of me

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Speaker 4: to do this, but like, I have a friend, it's

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Speaker 4: like a friend of a friend, and you know, I've

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Speaker 4: known her for a few years, like don't like keep

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Speaker 4: up with her a lot, but we were catching up

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Speaker 4: and then I made a Joe Rogan joke. But she

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Speaker 4: was like, oh, I really like him, and I was

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Speaker 4: like why. She was like, it's just like interesting, like

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Speaker 4: he has people on from like both sides, And I

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Speaker 4: was like, oh, fuck.

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Speaker 2: Like does he really know?

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Speaker 4: He really just he doesn't. He doesn't like he does

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Speaker 4: so that he can say he does. But the damage

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Speaker 4: you do by having like vaccine deniers and all that

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Speaker 4: stuff is not undone or made fair by also having

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Speaker 4: like a person on there who believes that you know

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Speaker 4: sciences right right right, So it's a it's an unfair

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Speaker 4: defense to say, yeah, I have like the demons who

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Speaker 4: want to eat our skin but I also.

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Speaker 3: Have the people whose skin is being eat So it's

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Speaker 3: not like it's not good that someone that I considered.

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Speaker 4: Intelligent and in my peer group was like, I think

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Speaker 4: it's really cool that he has like these people. So

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Speaker 4: I just think there's more people like that than I knew,

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Speaker 4: like three or four years ago, because Joe Rogan's podcast

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Speaker 4: is very popular. So I think back to what you

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Speaker 4: were saying that it's not just old people now, like

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Speaker 4: Tucker speaks to that older generation of I guess you

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Speaker 4: could say racists or just like Republicans, but there are

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Speaker 4: younger people who want to hear their views affirmed, and

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Speaker 4: I think Tucker is really good at doing that, So

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Speaker 4: it probably will reach a younger crowd, especially if it's

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Speaker 4: like again, I get all my news from the Blucky

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Speaker 4: Clever Gazette and ZELD, but especially has reported. I assume

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Speaker 4: it's going to be like lots of videos and like

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Speaker 4: different online and different hosts and things like that, not

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Speaker 4: just like Tucker's bock show, like repeat probably going to

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Speaker 4: be more right, I would assume it's gonna be bigger.

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Speaker 2: I have no idea. Matt Nagrin, thank you so much.

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Speaker 4: I hope you'll come back, Okay, but I will come

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Speaker 4: back if you let me talk more about the ethical

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Speaker 4: issues in the legend of Zelda's newspaper, Flagship Newspaper.

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Speaker 1: John Allen is a national political reporter at NBC and

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Speaker 1: the author of Lucky How Joe Biden Barely won the presidency.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back, too Fast Politics, your friend and mine and

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Speaker 1: really my friend, though I think we're going to get

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Speaker 1: into it today, Jonathan Allen.

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Speaker 5: Oh, try not to slow down fast Politics too much. Molly.

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Speaker 2: By the way, Fast Politics, I hope.

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Speaker 1: All of you are listening to this at one point

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Speaker 1: seven speed. It's the least you can do. So that

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Speaker 1: I sound like many mouse, I.

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Speaker 5: Mean say go too well.

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Speaker 1: Two two is like two is like At some point

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Speaker 1: you're like, is this English?

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Speaker 5: Are you trying to get in a fight with Rodney Panthers.

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Speaker 2: The Minimal Mini Mask. Before we were recording, we were

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Speaker 2: talking about this.

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Speaker 1: We are in this very strange run up to the

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Speaker 1: twenty four election where it looks like the twenty four

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Speaker 1: election is going to be the exact same matchup as

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Speaker 1: a twenty twenty election.

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Speaker 2: Is there a historical president for this?

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Speaker 5: There is historical president for this, but it doesn't happen

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Speaker 5: very often. You have consecutive elections, I believe you, with

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Speaker 5: Benjamin Harrison and Grover Cleveland. Oh my Cleveland, So Cleveland

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Speaker 5: with President then Harrison beat Cleveland, and then Cleveland beat Harrison.

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Speaker 5: So it has happened before, but it is it is unusual.

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Speaker 2: It's like a sort of mind blowingly.

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Speaker 1: I mean, let's just let's just go into the GOP

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Speaker 1: primary contest because it is happening. Still, does it seem

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Speaker 1: like there's any world in which the great hope of

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Speaker 1: the National Review crowd? Do you not very charismatic on

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Speaker 1: de Santis is able to somehow rise from the ashes.

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Speaker 5: I think there's certainly a scenario, But you know, the

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Speaker 5: more we try to figure out with what that scenario is, like,

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Speaker 5: the farther we get from the current reality. What I

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Speaker 5: mean by that is like, sure, I can qujure up

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Speaker 5: a scenario like Trump decides he's not going to run, and.

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Speaker 2: That's a zero point zero zero scenario. Let's be honest for.

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Speaker 5: Just saying this, I think or anybody else to beat Trump,

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Speaker 5: what you'd have to do is effectively have a one

441
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,440
Speaker 5: on one with them, and you would have to hair

442
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 5: away some of his base and I think the only

443
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,919
Speaker 5: way to tear away some of his base is to

444
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,719
Speaker 5: prove that you were like a better Trump than Trump.

445
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,199
Speaker 5: There's a personal following of Donald Trump, right, that like

446
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 5: thirty five percent of the Republican Party has, and they're

447
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 5: pretty fixed to him. And it's like unless somebody comes

448
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,159
Speaker 5: and knocks him down, knocks him off the perch, you know,

449
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 5: I don't see them beating him. I don't think it's

450
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 5: just a matter of collecting the people who are anti Trump.

451
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,120
Speaker 5: I think it's a pretty small percentage of the Republican

452
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:56,919
Speaker 5: Party that's actually anti Trump.

453
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I want to just get into that

454
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 1: for a second, because it does seem to me, like, really,

455
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 1: what you're saying is there's another reality television star who's

456
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 1: also a Republican who appeals to the far rights basist

457
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 1: instincts in a way that's charismatic.

458
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,400
Speaker 2: I mean, there is no person like that.

459
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,880
Speaker 5: Right, Like if Steven Sagall was funny or something, Yeah.

460
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,120
Speaker 2: Maybe right and not living in Russia, right.

461
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,680
Speaker 5: I mean, there are impediments to the Steven Sigall presidency, obviously,

462
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 5: But your point is the right one value, which is

463
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,159
Speaker 5: that there's a celebrity quality to Donald Trump. It is

464
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 5: all about personality. I mean, not all all about personality,

465
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 5: but the idea that you're going to come up with

466
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 5: some sort of clever way to contrast with them on

467
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 5: policy or you know, on demeanor or whatever. I mean,

468
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,479
Speaker 5: it just it hasn't worked. We've been watching the script

469
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:48,639
Speaker 5: play out for eight years.

470
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean again, I think the Desanders's larger

471
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 1: problem is that Trump is not policy. Trump is that

472
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 1: he was famous for twenty years, so everybody knew who

473
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,640
Speaker 1: he was, and then he you know, was very charismatic.

474
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't beat a charisma candidate by running

475
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 1: to the right of him and saying, you know, I

476
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,399
Speaker 1: want to end birthright citizenship, which he.

477
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 2: Which again I don't know where that came from. He ran.

478
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 1: You know, you win against a charisma candidate by being

479
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,880
Speaker 1: more charismatic or being sane and not a complete sociopath,

480
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: as the case may be.

481
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think that they just looked at

482
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 5: the Brian Camp model in Georgia, where Camp ran to

483
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,959
Speaker 5: the right in terms of ideology of David Perdue who

484
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 5: he was running against and Purdue, who was a Trump

485
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 5: endorsed candidate and you know, worked for Kemp to go

486
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 5: pretty hard right on olicy and then and collect all

487
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,439
Speaker 5: the anti front boat in that primary. But the problem

488
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 5: was David Perdue wasn't Trump. You know, It's not as applicable.

489
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,360
Speaker 2: Also, Brian Camp had support.

490
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 1: You could say what you want about him, he stood

491
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,400
Speaker 1: up to Trump, so like he may be far right,

492
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 1: but he at least like you know, I think a

493
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 1: lot of like conservative voters felt like he had protected

494
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: their democracy.

495
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 5: I should also say, like an operative recently said to

496
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 5: me that the be in a Republican primary is not

497
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 5: you know, which candidates do you want to have a

498
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 5: beer with, but which candidate will break a beer bottle

499
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 5: over someone else's head?

500
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 2: That's terrible? Has that always been true? Is that new?

501
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 5: I think there's always been a pretty strong element of that,

502
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 5: but more so now you know big part of this Manto.

503
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,719
Speaker 5: I'm like, I do think that this matters, you know,

504
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 5: in terms of if you are a candidate who you

505
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 5: want to defend your positions and fight for your positions

506
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 5: and defend your country. Looking for the biggest, baddest person

507
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 5: out there is not the worst metric necessarily, right, It's

508
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 5: one of many. But I think in the Republican Party

509
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 5: the toughest candidate is where the persons perceived to be

510
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 5: the toughest is often in the best place to win.

511
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to do something mean now, because we're friends.

512
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 1: I'm going to redo a tweet and you're going to

513
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 1: have to guess what year this is?

514
00:24:58,359 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

515
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: Nearly half of all registered voters say they're not satisfied

516
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: with the two major presidential candidates and want other choices.

517
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: Forty seven percent not satisfied. Guess what election twenty twelve,

518
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: two thousand.

519
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 2: And eight, John McCain and Barack Obama.

520
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,199
Speaker 5: I was going in the right direction.

521
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: You were, same story in two thousand with Bush vy Gore,

522
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: also Carter Reagan in nineteen eighty.

523
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, but Twitter did not exist for Carter Reagan really

524
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 5: and really for Obama and McCain. Like, I mean, the

525
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 5: extent that any I'm not even sure when Twitter started exactly,

526
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 5: but the extent that anyone was on Twitter during the

527
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 5: Obama McCain election, you would think that it was basically

528
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 5: just a handful of journalists.

529
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that it does seem in my mind,

530
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 1: like that question is, you know, the question of like

531
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: you're not happy with either candidate feels like everybody feels

532
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: that way all the time.

533
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, it shouldn't be shocking, Like the two

534
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,719
Speaker 5: parties are going to spend you know, a couple billion

535
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 5: dollar between the candidates and the parties, a couple of

536
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 5: billion dollars destroying each other in campaign ads and mailers

537
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 5: stuff like that. So you know, you look at that

538
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 5: and you're like, no, wonder people are angry about the

539
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 5: two parties. It wouldn't be shocking. Like if every morning

540
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 5: you wake up and you turn on the television and

541
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 5: it's like, you know, this party is gonna take your

542
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 5: house and your family and your car and then you know,

543
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,199
Speaker 5: shoot you in the street, and then you turn on

544
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 5: the TV the next morning it's the other party saying

545
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 5: the exact same thing. Eventually gonna be like, maybe there's

546
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 5: another alternative to these two parties, and.

547
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 2: That alternative is RFK JUNI, you're just kidding.

548
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 5: No, it's not those a real shot in the army.

549
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 2: We are the worst people.

550
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: That was a terrible joke and both of us, no

551
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 1: I appreciate the hell out of it. So let's talk

552
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 1: about everyone's favorite MAGA congresswoman CrossFit Queen Marjorie Taylor Green.

553
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 2: She's hit a bump in the road for sure.

554
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 5: The Freedom Caucus basically wants to get rid of her,

555
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 5: and most of them don't want her anymore.

556
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 2: Does that work?

557
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 5: She's too mainstream? He went, like she partied out. I

558
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 5: mean the original kin was that she threw her support

559
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 5: to Kevin McCarthy, and she's been fighting with Lauren Bobert.

560
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 5: They had nasty words with each other on the House

561
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 5: more recently.

562
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 1: And there was a great moment where the was it

563
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: Bobert who said that MTG was just that the reason

564
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 1: she had called her a nasty little bitch was because

565
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 1: she was a nasty little bitch.

566
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's the way it read.

567
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what did you call this person?

568
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 2: I did because she is well.

569
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,239
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, you know, that's a Washington apology if

570
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 5: I ever heard. But it was MTG that called Bobert that,

571
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 5: So I think I think you asked if.

572
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 2: It was called was No, it's MTG. Yes.

573
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 5: I mean, look, I think they have very different profiles.

574
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 5: In Congress number one, Marjorie Taylor Green's in a pretty

575
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 5: safe district, and it seems unlikely she's going to lose

576
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 5: no matter what she does, whereas like Lauren Bobert's in

577
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 5: the district where she could lose and she's kind of

578
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 5: doubling down on extremism, so maybe that will work for her.

579
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 5: I would say the commercial wisdom is that it won't,

580
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 5: and maybe that Marjorie Taylor Green doesn't have to worry

581
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 5: about Lauren Bobert for very long.

582
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, but Marjorie Taylor Green does have to worry about

583
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 1: the rest of freedom carcos if she gets kiboshed.

584
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, I guess, I you know, are they

585
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 5: going to end up a primary challenge or two? Or

586
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 5: does anybody really believe that she's like not extreme enough?

587
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 5: You know?

588
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I love how exhausted you sound.

589
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 5: I mean, if you ever like saw the movie Mean Girls,

590
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 5: Like it's like some groups sitting at one of those

591
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 5: tables that's not the you know, the plastic table. They're

592
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 5: like sitting at one of the like outer rain tables,

593
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 5: and then they're like starting to pick on each other.

594
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 5: They're like, oh, you're not You're not cool enough to

595
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 5: be in the av club now, you know, Like, I.

596
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: Mean, right, there's a larger Republican congressional problem going on,

597
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: which is McCarthy has like really kind of long. I mean,

598
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: he did this thing, which was he kept the federal

599
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: government from defaulting and crashing the American economy.

600
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 2: He's kind of like lost the will of his caucus.

601
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 5: Now I'm not sure that he had it to lose.

602
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 5: That is just say we watched him go through fifteen

603
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 5: rounds of taming. It's been a long time since there's

604
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 5: been anyone in politics at that level that has had

605
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 5: such a little room to maneuver. Sometimes people make a

606
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 5: choice and they decide, you know, to do things that

607
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 5: they know will harm the moment. You could see John

608
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 5: Bahner doing that. But I think McCarthy's just simply trying

609
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 5: to figure out the best thing he can do to

610
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 5: maintain his place. You know, it's like he's walking a

611
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 5: tightrope and juggling, you know, fiery sticks at the same time,

612
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 5: and there's diosaurs coming at him, just trying to stay

613
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 5: on that pipe rope. Then all of a sudden, boom,

614
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 5: out of nowhere, you know, Marjorie Taylor Green and Lauren

615
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 5: Bober fighting each other, and you know, he says awkwardly

616
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 5: something about how Trump might not be the best handed

617
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 5: pig on Biden and then he has to like put

618
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 5: that back back in a box really quickly, and yet

619
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 5: guys like he's got no room to maneuver. But also,

620
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 5: let's just say he doesn't have the strongest vertebrae of

621
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 5: any congressional leader we've ever seen. So maybe it's helpful

622
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 5: as you try to maneuver into tiny spaces.

623
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: But I want to I just want to go further

624
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: with this for a minute. Is the problem a lack

625
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: of spine with McCarthy, Because I would argue there have

626
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: been other leaders of Congress.

627
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 2: I know this is going to that you're going to

628
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 2: be shocked by this.

629
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: Who themselves did not have deep and real beliefs in

630
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 1: the things that they were pushing. Like, I don't know

631
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: that the problem McCarthy has is a lack of a

632
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: spine as much as it's a lack of a brain.

633
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: I mean that in the nicest possible way.

634
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 5: Obviously, I am certain that Kevin McCarthy has a brain.

635
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 5: Having interact with Kevin McCarthy before, I can I assure

636
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 5: you that Kevin McCarthy has a brain.

637
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: But that there's a sort of golden retriever like quality

638
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: to him.

639
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 5: I think that Kevin McCarthy, like most congressional leaders, as

640
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 5: somebody who wants power more than they have particular adherents

641
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 5: to any one policy or even total ideology, right like

642
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 5: what they care about his advance of themselves. But I

643
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 5: think with McCarthy it is more transparent and more evident

644
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 5: than with most that he's just doing what he has

645
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 5: to do to get along. And you almost never see

646
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 5: him take a position that is like the difficult one

647
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 5: to take. I mean, I guess, I guess arguably maybe

648
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 5: you know, not the fault thing was difficult to take.

649
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 5: But he's trying to find the positions he can take

650
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 5: that are going to keep him in power. And look,

651
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 5: the founders, I think designed a system that relied on,

652
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 5: you know, the ambition of individuals. They understood it, right,

653
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 5: They knew that people that were in these jobs, that

654
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 5: were members of Congress or whatever would act in certain

655
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 5: ways and try to get reelective and whatnot, and so

656
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 5: they understood the infernal politics. I just you know, McCarthy

657
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 5: is again in this position where you.

658
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 2: Like, he can't move, he has no he doesn't have

659
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 2: the numbers.

660
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 5: Right, one misstep and his career was over.

661
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, heartwarming story I want to get into this sort

662
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,479
Speaker 1: of where Biden is right now. Jesse and I were

663
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: both saying this before we started recording, that we thought

664
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: the Biden economics message was good.

665
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 2: And those graphs.

666
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: From the European the G seven, and they're not all

667
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: European obviously, but the G seven countries showed that really

668
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: the Bidenomics, for whatever it's worth, is actually working.

669
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, I think there are about zero Americans

670
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 5: who are going to vote based on how the US

671
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 5: economy is doing at large versus other countries.

672
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 2: Right, But I mean I think it's a meaningful indicator.

673
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 5: Sure, I guess what I would say about the biodonomics

674
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 5: message of this. There are strong indicators of recovering economy,

675
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 5: and there are also some indicators that are not where

676
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 5: the Biden folks would like them to be. But there's

677
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 5: only so much the president can do to control the economy.

678
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 5: And if the economy surges back and people feel that

679
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 5: it surges back, because of course, the perceptions of what's

680
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 5: going on to voters are often more important than the reality.

681
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 5: If by next November voters feel like the economy is

682
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 5: a good place, Biden's going to want to be able

683
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 5: to take credit for it, and he's not going to

684
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 5: be able to do that unless he lays the ground

685
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 5: for that. So now is when he's laying the ground,

686
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 5: or to say, he's here is our economic plan. We

687
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 5: believe that it's working now, and we believe it's going

688
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 5: to be working more next November. And the thing is,

689
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 5: if he's wrong, he's going to lose anyway. Maybe he

690
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 5: wins anyway. But if the economy has fallen off the

691
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 5: cliff a year, you know, a year and a half

692
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 5: from now, if we're in deepercession or depression or something,

693
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 5: then it doesn't matter what he said today. On the

694
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 5: other hand, if it's going well, he wants to be

695
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 5: able to take credit for it, so he lays that

696
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 5: credit it now.

697
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: It does seem like, you know, every time and again,

698
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,720
Speaker 1: I feel like every time we talk about this economy,

699
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: when we've talked about this when we've had a Republican

700
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: in office, I feel like there's more kind of the

701
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: president gets credit for the economy than when we have

702
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: a Democrat in office. And remember when you see all

703
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: that polling, people are always saying, oh, Republicans are better

704
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: on the economy, and that's just sort of like a

705
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 1: conventional wisdom baked in. I mean, there's so much evidence,

706
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: and I always think about this, there's so much evidence,

707
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 1: and in fact, like what did Trump do? He did

708
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: a huge tax cut, He raised the taxes in the

709
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,720
Speaker 1: Blue states with this making the state and local income

710
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 1: tax assault not deductible, so raising our taxes. And then

711
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 1: because to punish blue states, and then he uh, you know,

712
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: he did all these sort of crony capitalist moves and

713
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: then we had a pandemic. So I mean that obviously

714
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: these things are not related in that way, but like

715
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: he didn't show any great economic chops. And then you

716
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 1: have Biden here who was doing this massive infrastructure spending.

717
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 2: So again like that does pump up the GDP.

718
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: So I just wonder, like, why do people who are

719
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 1: pulled always think Republicans are better on the economy.

720
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 2: It's you have thirty seconds to answer this question.

721
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 5: If your assertionist the Democrats are better on the economy,

722
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 5: and if people think Republicans are, then that would seem

723
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 5: to be a messaging the spirit.

724
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 2: But I mean, you think it's just sort of baked

725
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:38,320
Speaker 2: in there.

726
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,399
Speaker 5: I don't think it necessarily is. I don't think people

727
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 5: felt Republicans were good on the economy in two thousand

728
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,240
Speaker 5: and eight when the economy was like falling through the floor.

729
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 5: So you know, it depends on the moment, but Republicans

730
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 5: talk more about the economy, or at least traditionally have

731
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 5: talked more about the economy. Last thirty years or so

732
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 5: is a little different. It's always sort of a core

733
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 5: focus on business, and the markets are core focused bubblekan politics.

734
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 5: So I think the Democrats have they have to make

735
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 5: sure that they you know, am a competitive standpoint, that

736
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 5: they talk about that issue that is most important to

737
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 5: most voters and talk about it in a way that

738
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 5: resonates with voters.

739
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 2: John Allen, I hope you're not mad at me.

740
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:17,919
Speaker 5: Why would I be mad at here?

741
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 2: And that you'll still come back and visit us again.

742
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 2: This was really a great conversation. I appreciate you.

743
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 5: I'm never mad at you. Molli.

744
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:32,439
Speaker 1: Hi, it's Mollie and I am wildly excited that for

745
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: the first time, Fast Politics, the show you're listening to

746
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:38,439
Speaker 1: right now.

747
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 2: Is going to have merch for sale over at.

748
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: Shop dot fastpoliticspod dot com.

749
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 2: You can now buy.

750
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Speaker 1: Shirts, hats, hoodies, and toe bags with our incredible designs.

751
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752
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753
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755
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Speaker 2: Thanks for your support.

756
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: Emily Atkin is the author of the climate newsletter Heated.

757
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 2: Welcome to Fast Politics, Emily.

758
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 6: Oh, it's so great to be back.

759
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 1: I was just talking to my husband and he was saying, like,

760
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: maybe we should go for a walk, and then he's like,

761
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: there's an air quality alert out. This is like the

762
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: first summer where like you can't walk because of the

763
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 1: air it's bad.

764
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 7: I think that people are starting to kind of see

765
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 7: how this is connected to climate change and starting to

766
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 7: realize like, oh, I don't think I like puffs la, Yeah,

767
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 7: I really do.

768
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 1: I'm excited if that's true. I'm a little worried that

769
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: they're not putting it together. We did have orange smoke.

770
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: You know.

771
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 2: There was one day where we got.

772
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: Up to like almost five hundred on the AQI, which

773
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: is like, is in five hundred when you start like

774
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 1: getting really sick and dying.

775
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's like the worst air quality you're running up

776
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 7: on some of the worst air quality in the world.

777
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 7: That can trigger a stroke, It could trigger a heart

778
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 7: attack in people with cardiovascular problems, it could trigger it

779
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 7: out asthma attack. Yeah, that's the level that you really

780
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 7: don't want to be outside, particularly if you have any

781
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 7: pre existing conditions, but also just generally.

782
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that was pretty scary.

783
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: I mean, so what's happening right now is that there

784
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: are wildfires in Canada. Can you just talk a little

785
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: bit about what exactly is happening and how this is

786
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: sort of playing out.

787
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean from a climate change perspective and from

788
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,879
Speaker 7: just a weather perspective, wildfires are It's normal that wildfires

789
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,280
Speaker 7: would happen, and it's normal that the smoke would travel

790
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 7: from the place that the wildfire is to a different place.

791
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 6: Right, That's that's a normal thing that would happen.

792
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, wind fires, it's all good. The problem

793
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 7: right now is that we're seeing these massive wildfires and

794
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 7: it's not really wildfire season. It technically is, but it's

795
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 7: right at the start and the amount of acres that

796
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 7: are burning from these wildfires is unlike anything that people

797
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 7: have ever seen, particularly for this region in Canada that

798
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 7: they're burning. So that is very consistent with predictions from

799
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 7: climate scientists that say, you know, the more carbon women

800
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,720
Speaker 7: into the atmosphere, the hotter the average world temperature gets,

801
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 7: the drier dry places get. One of the funny things

802
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 7: about climate change, it's not funny, it's just complicated, but

803
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 7: it's that drier places get drier, and wetter places get wetter.

804
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 6: It just makes everything a bit more extreme. And so when.

805
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,760
Speaker 7: People ask me, how do you know if this event

806
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 7: was because of climate change or influenced by climate change,

807
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 7: the answer is that every single weather event that we

808
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 7: live through is affected by climate change because we live

809
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 7: in a climate that has already changed. And these fires

810
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 7: that we're seeing are very consistent with predictions that wildfires

811
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 7: burn stronger, burn longer, and that translates to air quality

812
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 7: alerts in places that the fires aren't even happening.

813
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 1: It does seem like that is pretty unbelievable, like the

814
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 1: change I've seen in my lifetime.

815
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 2: And I'm forty four, so I could probably be your mother.

816
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,479
Speaker 2: But if I had you when i was fourteen, I'm

817
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:30,240
Speaker 2: just kidding.

818
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, But what I've seen is that there's like.

819
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 2: There's also like no snow, we even had snow.

820
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 7: I was actually just at this climate summit where there

821
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 7: was this awesome presentation of climate data. The name of

822
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 7: the organization doing this is eluding me, so I apologize

823
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 7: to them in advance. But it was this awesome presentation

824
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:59,280
Speaker 7: of what the country looked like forty years ago versus

825
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 7: now in terms of the warming that's already happened. They

826
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 7: zoomed in on Maine, for instance, that these towns in Maine,

827
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 7: and they could tell you what the average snow season

828
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 7: looked like forty years ago and what it looks like now,

829
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 7: and how that corresponds with the one point one to

830
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,280
Speaker 7: one point two degrees celsius of warming that has happened

831
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 7: over time, right right, because the world has already.

832
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:26,280
Speaker 6: Warned a certain amount.

833
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,919
Speaker 7: So like what you're seeing over the last forty years

834
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 7: of your life is backed up by the data. Like

835
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 7: you can look at a map and see that this

836
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 7: thing that you feel that you're getting less snow, that

837
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 7: it's not as cold, it is happening and it is

838
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 7: consistent with these predictions.

839
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,720
Speaker 6: As horrifying as that is, it is, at.

840
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 7: The same time, the way I look at it kind

841
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 7: of nice to know that, like, Okay, we can sort

842
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 7: of we can trust these predictions are correct, and so

843
00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 7: therefore we can trust the science that says here what

844
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 7: you need to do to have it not get worse.

845
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: So let's talk for a minute about what that science

846
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 1: looks like. I mean, there's a lot of there's a

847
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: lot of anxiety about carbon capture. There's a lot out

848
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: there that sounds like bullshit.

849
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 2: So talk to us about what is bullshit and what

850
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 2: is real.

851
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 7: The most important thing that you need to know about

852
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 7: what is bullshit is anyone that tries to make the

853
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 7: claim that we can continue to extract and burn fossil

854
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 7: fuels at the current rate and not reach a level

855
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 7: of climate catastrophe that makes a large chunk of the

856
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,800
Speaker 7: planet unlivable for millions of people.

857
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 1: And by the way, I think what's important when you

858
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 1: say that is we're not talking about like just climate

859
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 1: crisis in one country. If people are dying of heat

860
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 1: stroke in the UAE, that is echoing out everywhere else too. Well.

861
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean climate change is so common, flex right,

862
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 7: that there are many different ways that the planet or

863
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 7: an ecosystem can become unlivable. In let's say, a three

864
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 7: sea world, a world that has warmed on average three

865
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 7: degrees celsius since the pre industrial era. Like, yeah, there

866
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 7: are going to be areas of India that regularly become

867
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 7: too hot for the human body to actually live in.

868
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 7: That's going to spur refugee crises. We're going to have

869
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 7: a lot of people moving. They're going to be sea

870
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 7: level rides. That is going to make some places also unlevel.

871
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 7: Pretty easy stuff to visualize there. There's also going to

872
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 7: be more wildfires that bring more smoke into cities that

873
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 7: makes it unlivable for people with asthma, or people with

874
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 7: babies or old people. Right, stores, hurricanes, things like that,

875
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 7: and then there's just all of these social effects that

876
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 7: come with those things. Right, maybe you can actually live

877
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 7: in the place with a lot of smoke, but there's

878
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 7: not enough hospital capacity or something like that, or you

879
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 7: can't get to work because you work outside. Right, It's

880
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 7: livability is not just about your health and about whether

881
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 7: you die. It's about also the quality of life and the.

882
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 6: Way you live your life.

883
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:16,760
Speaker 7: So there is no unfortunately, there is no credible science

884
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 7: that shows that we can limit these effects without transitioning

885
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 7: away from fossil fuels. The fossil fuel industry and a

886
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 7: lot of conservatives in particular, will try to tell you

887
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 7: that just by switching to natural gas or just by

888
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 7: installing carbon capture, we can avoid a lot of these

889
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 7: emissions and keep using fossil fuels. The only thing that

890
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 7: they don't offer there is evidence to show that that

891
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 7: will work. And the reason they don't offer it is

892
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 7: because it doesn't exist. It's just a lot of buzzwords

893
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,320
Speaker 7: that sound really cool. Carbon capture is not a feasible

894
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,399
Speaker 7: technology at scale. Natural gas is a fossil fuel that's

895
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 7: made of methane right which it's hugely polluted p greenouse

896
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 7: gas that is the most was harmful bullshit that is

897
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:01,879
Speaker 7: out there right now.

898
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:02,879
Speaker 2: For sure, there was.

899
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: Some weird elon Musk climate change stuff where he was

900
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: saying crazy stuff about climate change and how I wasn't

901
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: quite following. But isn't that a little scary that that

902
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: guy who made all his money on an ev.

903
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 2: Is uh doesn't believe in climate change.

904
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 7: It's wild because he is very much cited as this

905
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,240
Speaker 7: savior for climate change because he's.

906
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 6: Developed evs a tesla.

907
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 7: First of all, like simply developing EV's doesn't help that

908
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 7: much you actually have to reduce the number of cars

909
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 7: on the road. That's also been pretty clearly laid out

910
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 7: in scientific literature that like just merely switching to EV's,

911
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 7: switching all the gas powered cars to EV's is not

912
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 7: going to help. You have to you have to make

913
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 7: it so that people drive less and that there are

914
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 7: actually less cars on the road.

915
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 6: And Elon does not want to do that. It's just

916
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:57,240
Speaker 6: so interesting.

917
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:59,839
Speaker 7: He's got this really weird view of climate change I've

918
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 7: been looking into recently where he acknowledges the role of

919
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 7: fossil fuels but doesn't think that farming contributes to climate change,

920
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 7: which is wild because it.

921
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 2: Does, right, Obviously, I really don't know.

922
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 6: What's going on with him.

923
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 7: The latest thing that he was in the news climate wise,

924
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,840
Speaker 7: for was that he responded to this New York Post

925
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:22,280
Speaker 7: story about.

926
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 1: Oh, the coal pizza ovens, yeah, which you wrote brilliantly about.

927
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 6: Thank you.

928
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:27,399
Speaker 1: Yeah.

929
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 6: He was like, these won't do anything to fight climate change.

930
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 7: They're bullshit, and it made so much news that it

931
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 7: was so wild because it was like, these rules for

932
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 7: pizza ovens have nothing to do with climate change. So unfortunately,

933
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 7: I would say, like, the thing that's so wild about

934
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:44,359
Speaker 7: him is that he's just so vulnerable to misinformation now

935
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 7: because that's like who he's decided he is.

936
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:51,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, now, I mean quite interesting to watch him

937
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 1: just flail around. So it's basically fire season now, even

938
00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: though it used to only be fire season in California,

939
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: I guess now it's fire season in New York too, right.

940
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 7: Well, yeah, I mean you wouldn't normally see a lot

941
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,760
Speaker 7: of wildfire in New York, but unfortunately that's another effective

942
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 7: climate change, is that the dryer it gets, the more

943
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 7: areas are vulnerable to wildfires. So yeah, I mean wildfire

944
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 7: season normally, like wildfire and hurricane season. Like, while the

945
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 7: West is getting messed up by wildfire season, the East

946
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 7: is getting messed up by hurricane season. They kind of intersect,

947
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 7: they're like at the same time summer to fall. And

948
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 7: now we're seeing that that's still happening, but both coasts

949
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 7: are also getting the threat of the other coasts problem too.

950
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 7: We see very clearly now that the East Coast is

951
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 7: starting to feel the effects of wildfire season because wildfire

952
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,280
Speaker 7: season is expanding, and now even the even the West

953
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 7: coast gets hurricane threats now they haven't seen you know,

954
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 7: a big storm in the way the East Coast has

955
00:47:57,840 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 7: gotten yet, but it's coming.

956
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 6: It's it's wild, it's not great.

957
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: Can you explain to us what this warmer Alnino means? Basically,

958
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 1: the the ocean in the Atlantic is as warm as

959
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: it's ever been.

960
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:18,359
Speaker 7: Right, you'll have these anomaly years, right. I don't think

961
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 7: that the meteorology of it is necessarily as useful for

962
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 7: us to explain and understand as the effect of it

963
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:29,359
Speaker 7: is that when it's an al Nino year, everything is

964
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:34,320
Speaker 7: magnified in terms of heat. So anything any you're probably

965
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 7: an al Nino year is when you're probably going to

966
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 7: see the hottest temperatures on average in a long time.

967
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 7: Probably when you're going to see more heat waves, and

968
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:49,760
Speaker 7: then also extreme weather like hurricanes because warm water, warm

969
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 7: ocean water fuels storms.

970
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: This is like unprecedented how warm the Atlantic is right now, right.

971
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 7: Right, Because it's an al Nino, it's like we're talking

972
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 7: about earlier, the climate has already changed, so this will

973
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 7: will be the hottest El Nino ever. And el Nino

974
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 7: is normal, that was always going to happen, but in

975
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,320
Speaker 7: the world that it now exists is a hotter world.

976
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 7: So it's going to be the hottest alnino.

977
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 2: That does not seem good.

978
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 6: None of it is good.

979
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 7: I think the question really is like, what are we

980
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,359
Speaker 7: going to do now that we know about this, now

981
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 7: that we see it. Are we going to stop denying

982
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,479
Speaker 7: that it's happening? And are we going to take some

983
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:36,720
Speaker 7: necessary steps to ensure that every single El Nino now

984
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 7: in the future is not the hottest El Nino that's

985
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:40,839
Speaker 7: ever been?

986
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:41,359
Speaker 1: Right?

987
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,760
Speaker 2: Do you have anything hopeful you want to tell us? Yeah?

988
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 7: I do, actually, which is that I think there's this

989
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 7: general idea that it's kind of too late to do

990
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 7: anything about this, which just isn't true. I mean, it's

991
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 7: very clear that it's not true. And every single piece

992
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 7: of action that anyone does to help, even if you

993
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 7: can't like see the effect on the atmosphere, it does

994
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 7: help because even if it doesn't change emissions, the things

995
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 7: that we do help change culture. One of the things

996
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 7: that I write about a lot in my newsletter is

997
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 7: that climate change is not just an emissions problem. It

998
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 7: is a society and cultural problem. It's about what we

999
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 7: value and changing the things that we value. Because we

1000
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 7: won't do what's necessary to solve climate change until we

1001
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 7: change the things we value. So even like posting online

1002
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 7: and making podcasts about stuff like this and trying to

1003
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 7: like envision a different worlds where and an economy and

1004
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 7: world is not based on extraction and that's you know,

1005
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 7: based on reciprocity with each other and with nature. It's

1006
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 7: that kind of messaging is actually really important.

1007
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 6: And there are so many movements.

1008
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 7: I think what's so great about the climate change activism community,

1009
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 7: which is so broad by the way, is that if

1010
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 7: there's one thing they know how to do, it is

1011
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 7: create community. And I think that there is a joy

1012
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 7: of working on something that you really care about with

1013
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 7: other people. I think we tend to have this capitalism

1014
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 7: driven need to not do anything.

1015
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 6: Unless we know that it will have, you know, an impact.

1016
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 7: It's like, oh, I'm not going to do a hobby

1017
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:25,839
Speaker 7: unless I'm going to be the best editor, unless I'm

1018
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 7: going to monetize it, and not just doing things because

1019
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 7: they make us feel good and we get to be

1020
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 7: with people and you know, and enjoy ourselves. I feel

1021
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 7: the same way about climate activism and climate writing and

1022
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 7: anything based on ecological solutions. Is that like, if you

1023
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 7: go into it with the idea that you don't want

1024
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 7: to do it unless you can save the world, then

1025
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:49,280
Speaker 7: you're never going to experience.

1026
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 6: Any joy out of it.

1027
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 7: The point should be to experience joy out of it

1028
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 7: and to make yourself feel better. And the more you

1029
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:58,439
Speaker 7: do that, like, the more progress is going to be made.

1030
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 2: Oh very interesting.

1031
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: Is there anything else that you feel like is important

1032
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 1: that we should be talking about when it comes to climate?

1033
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 6: So many things.

1034
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 7: My reporter Aril is currently working on a story about

1035
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:16,240
Speaker 7: how renewable energy in Texas is actually saving the electric

1036
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,800
Speaker 7: grid from shutting down during their extreme heat. Oh wow,

1037
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 7: that's a really good climate story. And it's funny because

1038
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 7: you'll see still from Texas Governor Abbit and other politicians.

1039
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:31,800
Speaker 7: You know, they'll still say that solar and wind energy

1040
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 7: are unreliable, we can't rely on them to power the grid.

1041
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:36,839
Speaker 6: But the reality is right now that as the grid

1042
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:39,959
Speaker 6: is overheating in Texas because of climate fueled extreme heat,

1043
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 6: the natural gas plants that are shutting down. It's the

1044
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 6: nuclear facilities that are shutting down, the ones that depend

1045
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 6: on thermal regulated heat. The only reason the grid is

1046
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 6: up and still working and people have their air conditioner

1047
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 6: right now is because Texas also has a ton of

1048
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 6: solar and wind. So we're seeing the positive news play

1049
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 6: out before our eyes, like these renewable energy sources are

1050
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 6: really working, and so it's really important, I think, for

1051
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 6: people to know that and to be armed with that information.

1052
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 1: Right on that note, thank you so much, Emily.

1053
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 2: I hope you will come back.

1054
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 7: I hope you will have me back. It's always great

1055
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 7: to be here, and thank you for covering this.

1056
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 5: Now.

1057
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 8: Pet Jesse Cannon, Molly junk Fast. You know that Kevin

1058
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 8: McCarthy doesn't have a lot of good qualities, and one

1059
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 8: of them is nefitely not his backbone.

1060
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 1: I was really impressed today with how much stupid Kevin

1061
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 1: McCarthy is managing to involve himself in. But today he

1062
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 1: said that maybe Trump wasn't the best candidate. You will

1063
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: remember Trump as having been impeached twice, in dieted twice,

1064
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:51,320
Speaker 1: and having led the January sixth armed insurrection at the Capitol.

1065
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy suggested that perhaps that person was not the

1066
00:53:55,200 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 1: best GOP presidential candidate. Well, I'm going to fast forward

1067
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: and tell you unsurprisingly, he has now apologized for that

1068
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: terrible misleading of the American people, and he and his

1069
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: incredible stupidity is once.

1070
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 2: Again are a moment of fucker.

1071
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

1072
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:24,240
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds

1073
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you

1074
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:30,280
Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend

1075
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.