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Speaker 1: The volume. This is Straight Fire with Jason McIntire. What

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Speaker 1: is up straight Fire, Pamp. It's the Jason McIntire Straight

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Speaker 1: Fire for Tuesday, June thirteenth. We got an NBA champion,

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Speaker 1: Ladies and Gentlemen, the Denver Nuggets. Yes, I own a

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Speaker 1: throwback Denver Nuggets hat. I will say. I said it

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Speaker 1: on social media last night. Ladies and gentlemen, this is

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Speaker 1: one of the iconic nineteen eighties logos. I know the

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Speaker 1: Denver Nuggets were not a great basketball team. They were

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Speaker 1: just good. They made the playoffs every year. A topic

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Speaker 1: we'll get to Miami heat. The Denver Nuggets finally, I believe,

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Speaker 1: forty six seasons in the NBA and they are finally

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Speaker 1: crown champions thanks to the incredible, amazing Nicola jokicch Holy cow,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna take about an hour here to rattle off

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Speaker 1: all of Joki's incredible numbers. Obviously the Finals MVP, his

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Speaker 1: numbers were stataggering in this postseason. But I think I've

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Speaker 1: got to lead with this. Obviously, we'll talk heat. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk plenty of heat. Jimmy Butler. I everybody wants to

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Speaker 1: crap on Jimmy Butler. Producer Rob's like, oh, we got it.

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Speaker 1: We gotta do we gotta take a crap on Jimmy

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Speaker 1: Butler like, oh, hold, that's my guy. But we got

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Speaker 1: to start with Nikola Jokic. The best player in the NBA,

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Speaker 1: bar none. Right now, he's top dog. Nicola Jokic became

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Speaker 1: the first player in the history of the NBA to

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Speaker 1: lead the entire playoffs in points, rebounds, and assists. Let

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Speaker 1: that sink in a dowe. Six foot ten, six foot

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Speaker 1: eleven Serbian led all of the playoffs in points, rebounds

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Speaker 1: and assists. That is greatness, my friends. That's never been done.

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Speaker 1: Some guys obviously have led two out of three. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure some have been close, but never has anyone done that.

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Speaker 1: Jokic was phenomenal, did a great job closing out Miami. Also, also,

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Speaker 1: he is the first player drafted outside the top fifteen

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Speaker 1: to win finals MVP and rig sees at MVP. The

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Speaker 1: accolades keep coming, and folks, he's only twenty eight years old.

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Speaker 1: I will make a case here shortly how the Nuggets

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Speaker 1: are built very closely to how the Golden State Warriors

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Speaker 1: were built. And that's why I think, listen, this Denver

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Speaker 1: team would not shock me if they were in the finals.

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Speaker 1: You know, two of the next four years, three of

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Speaker 1: the next five, some crazy number like that. They're built

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Speaker 1: really well. I do also want to add Jokic's numbers

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Speaker 1: thirty points per game in the playoffs, fourteen rebounds, seven assists.

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Speaker 1: The guy's an animal. He was unstoppable. By the way,

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Speaker 1: Game five great game nuggets did not cover. If you

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Speaker 1: live bet like I did, you may have gotten a cover.

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Speaker 1: You know. Listen, this was touch and go there at

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Speaker 1: the end thanks to Jimmy Butler getting him back in

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Speaker 1: it and then he kind of coughed it up at

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Speaker 1: the end. But one more Yokic thing. Okay, this is

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Speaker 1: a list of players with two MVP awards in the

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Speaker 1: regular season and one finals MVP. It's a shortlist. You

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Speaker 1: got the obvious ones, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird,

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Speaker 1: Moses Malone, Michael Jordan, Lebron Wilt and then Tim Duncan,

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Speaker 1: Steph Curry two MVPs and a finals MVP, Jannis and Jokic.

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Speaker 1: It's numbers like this in context like this that, and

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Speaker 1: I know we love to do top ten players all time. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: Jokic not there yet. Curry is in the top ten.

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Speaker 1: That should be obvious to anyone. But he's stacking stuff quickly,

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Speaker 1: and I think you make a case Jokich is already

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Speaker 1: a top twenty five player in NBA history. There just

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Speaker 1: are not a lot of players with two regular season

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Speaker 1: MVPs and a title and a Finals MVP. It just

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Speaker 1: hasn't been done. Like I know, the world loves Charles Barkley,

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Speaker 1: no titles, no finals MVPs, one NBA regular season MVP,

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Speaker 1: like I know, Oh Jason, he was in a great era.

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Speaker 1: What Yokich is not in the Lebron Curry era. Durant

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Speaker 1: like stop Okay, Jokic is phenomenal. His performance was unsurpassed.

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Speaker 1: I do quickly. I don't want to get into a

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Speaker 1: ref show. I don't want to be ref show guy.

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Speaker 1: I'll do that on social media. There were some just

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Speaker 1: it felt like the league really needed a game six.

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Speaker 1: Let's get one more game to go back to Miami.

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Speaker 1: The obvious one was with Jimmy Butler three, where he

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Speaker 1: kicks his leg out, kicks Gordon in the nuts, and

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Speaker 1: then Gordon's whistle for a foul. Or maybe it was

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Speaker 1: Jokis whatever it was, but he clearly struck the legout

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Speaker 1: got the call, and I didn't like some of the refereeing.

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Speaker 1: Late they did let him play, and Miami was exactly

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Speaker 1: as advertised. We're gonna fight like hell, We're gonna be

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Speaker 1: scrappy underdogs. We're not gonna give an inch. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: fight back as often as we can. It was relentless

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Speaker 1: from Miami throughout. They got more offensive rebounds, tenacious defensively,

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Speaker 1: the half court defense, the transition defense. Everything was awesome

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Speaker 1: for Miami. A quick word on Jimmy Butler, who and

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Speaker 1: let me call up the box score here. Jimmy Butler,

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Speaker 1: by the book, did not have an amazing game. And

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Speaker 1: if you just look at the numbers, then you say, oh,

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Speaker 1: you missed the game. Maybe you watch the ending. Jimmy

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Speaker 1: Butler five of eighteen. Oh he's trash, Jason, you said

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Speaker 1: he was better than Kawhi, He's garbage. You didn't win.

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Speaker 1: They lost four to one. Okay. The only reason this close,

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Speaker 1: the only reason Miami was able to cover the nine

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Speaker 1: nine and a half points bread was because Jimmy Butler

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Speaker 1: scored thirteen straight points in the fourth quarter. I saw

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Speaker 1: one of these guys, one of these like coaches who

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Speaker 1: actually has a decent social media calor. He puts out

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Speaker 1: like plays and like highlights what they're doing. It's informative stuff.

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Speaker 1: But then he gets into the hot takes, like Jimmy

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Speaker 1: Butler's not even looking for the ball, he doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to shoot it, and all these guys are bashing Butler. Listen,

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Speaker 1: he struggled in the first half. He was two for ten,

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Speaker 1: two for ten in the first half, not his finest hour.

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Speaker 1: Eight points. And guess what, Miami was right in the game,

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Speaker 1: mostly because Denver had the worst shooting half from three

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Speaker 1: in the history of the NBA Finals. I know people

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Speaker 1: will say, what about the Rockets when they missed twenty

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Speaker 1: seventh straight. They ended up making a few, so it

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Speaker 1: was not the worst shooting half the Rockets against the

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Speaker 1: Warriors my favorite game seven ever. Well, in the Warriors

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Speaker 1: ere I should say Denver was one for fifteen from

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Speaker 1: three in the first half, and that's why they trailed,

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Speaker 1: even though Jimmy Butler wasn't dominant. But you could say

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Speaker 1: Butler was pacing himself. Didn't need him at that point.

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Speaker 1: Strusa Vincent again one of ten combined from three, but

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Speaker 1: bam Adebayo had twenty. You know, Kyle Lowery is playing

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Speaker 1: his butt off the cheap shot artist. He had twelve,

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Speaker 1: Martin had ten. You know, even they were getting contributions.

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Speaker 1: And then in the fourth quarter, Denver storms ahead by six.

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Speaker 1: Jamal Murray, it's a shot of the place is rocking

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Speaker 1: and out of the blue, Jimmy Butler takes over the

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Speaker 1: game three two three, and next thing you know, he's

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Speaker 1: got thirteen points in a row in Miami. He's like

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Speaker 1: about to steal the game. And then there's like ninety

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Speaker 1: seconds left. Butler drives baseline because you know Cacp's going

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Speaker 1: for him and you can't just attack KCP. This is

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Speaker 1: a man who wore a court mandated ankle bracelet around

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Speaker 1: his ankle when he was with the Lakers. Okay, it's KCP.

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Speaker 1: He's tough, he's a dog. Eric Gordon aate backing down

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Speaker 1: and Butler has to eventually pass. He finds in the corner.

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Speaker 1: Max Struce, good look for three. You guys saw my instagram.

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Speaker 1: You know I'm hitting corner threes in the Men's League.

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Speaker 1: Max Struce open look, not today, tomorrow or next season.

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Speaker 1: I should say, Jimmy Butler's probably making that pass to

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Speaker 1: Dame Lillard. Am I right, Miami Heat fans get Dame

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Speaker 1: Lollard in there. Vincent and Struce kind of struggled. They

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Speaker 1: were combined one of ten from three. Struce was okay

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Speaker 1: attacking the basket. He had eight boards. And then the

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Speaker 1: next possession, I think they were down three. Butler gets

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Speaker 1: in the lane, looked like he traveled and dragged the

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Speaker 1: pivot foot. The whole Benver Nuggets bench is doing the

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Speaker 1: travel sign which reminded me of you guys, remember when

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Speaker 1: Chris Webber famously dragged his pivot foot in the back

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Speaker 1: court and the entire North Carolina bench was signaling travel

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Speaker 1: and then Webber goes down the court and calls the timeout.

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Speaker 1: They don't have go look that up on YouTube to

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Speaker 1: the young kids. At any rate. Butler drags his pivot foot,

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Speaker 1: they don't call the travel that he throws at KCP,

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Speaker 1: My guy, KCP with the steal and Ice is the

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Speaker 1: game and Denver wins. What else do I have here?

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Speaker 1: How about this Christian Braun Christian Brown, I'm sorry, win's

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Speaker 1: a natty with Kansas last April, late first round pick

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Speaker 1: wins a title with the Denver Nuggets. Not a bad

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Speaker 1: year for Christian Brown. And I put this on social

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Speaker 1: media last night. If you're not if you're not on there,

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Speaker 1: it's probably for the better, you know, waste of energy

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Speaker 1: and time and you get in arguments with all these losers.

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Speaker 1: I saw what Brown was giving them, and let me

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Speaker 1: just let me give you this Brown. Yeah, twenty four

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Speaker 1: minutes in a close out game in the NBA Finals

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Speaker 1: for a rookie is a lot of minutes. Seven point

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Speaker 1: three or six on the line. Not great, but did

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Speaker 1: have three boards and assists a block. He's everywhere. He

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Speaker 1: gives you valuable minutes. You look to the NBA Draft,

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Speaker 1: which is next Thursday. We're gonna start getting guests in

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Speaker 1: here to talk to draft. I'm just telling you there

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Speaker 1: are guys like Brown, a little older, twenty one to

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Speaker 1: twenty two, who can contribute on playoff contenders. And I'm

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Speaker 1: very excited for you. Agency's gonna be wild. I think

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Speaker 1: the draft could be interesting. NBA is going to have

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Speaker 1: a good offseason. But before we get there, Rob g

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Speaker 1: got me started on a track where we're thinking about

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Speaker 1: what we're going to talk about on the pod and

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Speaker 1: how we're gonna break down. And I have this great

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Speaker 1: idea where I have looked at the Nuggets how this

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Speaker 1: team is built, and then I went and looked at

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Speaker 1: the Warriors dynasty and how it was built, and there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of similarities. But then Rob g goes off,

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, heat culture, ha ha ha, and I'm like, whoa, hold,

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Speaker 1: hold wait, we're now bashing them for making the finals

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Speaker 1: and they made the finals twice in four years and

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Speaker 1: I know they didn't win. They were significant underdogs of

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Speaker 1: the Lakers, significant underdogs of the Nuggets. They lost both series.

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Speaker 1: So what And all of a sudden, it just and

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Speaker 1: I know Rob's not the only guy to feel like this,

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Speaker 1: because trust me, I've seen the meat balls serving stuff

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Speaker 1: to me on social media. Oh where's Jimmy Butler? He

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Speaker 1: overrated this team's garbage? And I just need to time

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Speaker 1: out because we need context for this. Guys. Somehow somewhere

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Speaker 1: we got into this idea that if you don't win

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Speaker 1: a championship, you're nothing. You might as well have missed

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Speaker 1: the playoffs because it doesn't matter making the first round wonderful.

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Speaker 1: Who gives a damn you don't win the championship, It

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Basically, what we're now saying is every team

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Speaker 1: that doesn't win a title had a failure of a season.

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Speaker 1: And I think if you want to make it black

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Speaker 1: and white, sure you can do that. But we know

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Speaker 1: we live in a world where there's shades of gray,

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Speaker 1: and a team like Philadelphia, which had title aspirations, they

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Speaker 1: would kill to be in the NBA finals. Kill, okay,

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Speaker 1: to get in the NBA Finals. The last time they

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Speaker 1: were here, Alan Iverson was stepping over Tylo. Okay, that's

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Speaker 1: how long it's been. Getting to the NBA Finals needs

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Speaker 1: to be lauded. That is an awesome feat. There are

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Speaker 1: thirty teams in the league. It is extremely difficult to

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Speaker 1: get to the NBA Finals, and the Heat have done

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Speaker 1: it twice in forty years, largely overachieve it, and that

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Speaker 1: needs to be commended. I don't care that they lost.

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Speaker 1: Heat culture took down the number one seat of Bucks.

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Speaker 1: You want to talk about a failure, call them a failure.

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Speaker 1: Jannis of course does not like that. You want to

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Speaker 1: talk about the Celtics letting down. I mean they were

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Speaker 1: heavy favorites, they were down three to zero, fought back

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Speaker 1: and then lost Game seven at home. Like you are

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Speaker 1: to have a failure. That could be a failure. Miami

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Speaker 1: Heat get any of the finals, are losing is not

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Speaker 1: a failure at all. And I just I don't like

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Speaker 1: this narrative. I went and looked just for rob at

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Speaker 1: all the titles since two thousand and essentially for the

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Speaker 1: last decade, and this is no surprise to anyone who

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Speaker 1: follows the NBA. It's been Steph Curry or Lebron James,

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Speaker 1: with a Yannis mixed in, now a Jokic mixed in

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Speaker 1: the fluky Kawhi Leonard won and then essentially for a decade,

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Speaker 1: Lebron or Curry was in the finals. And it's like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know why we got this way, because I

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Speaker 1: if memory serves, and I was not on planet Earth

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Speaker 1: at this point. Jerry West was named the logo of

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Speaker 1: the league and I think he went one or nine

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Speaker 1: in the finals. Somebody could check me on that. How

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Speaker 1: do you get to be the logo league if all

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Speaker 1: you do is lose in the finals and win one title?

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Speaker 1: He was the logo like that being a great player

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Speaker 1: getting to the finals that matters. And I know, raw,

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Speaker 1: I know, I don't want to get to eight mile

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Speaker 1: on you and start saying everything Rob's gonna say. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you're the Lakers, you don't hang a Western Conference

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Speaker 1: finals banger banner. You just don't. I think if you're

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Speaker 1: the Miami Heat, you do. I think that says, hey,

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Speaker 1: look what we got without the superstars. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think Butler's a superstar, don't. I don't think anybody thinks

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Speaker 1: Bam is. And then we got a bunch of undrafted

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Speaker 1: guys and we got to the finals, Like that needs

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Speaker 1: to be applauded. You guys think Damian Lillard would what

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Speaker 1: do you think he would do to get to an

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Speaker 1: NBA finals? So I think James Harden would do to

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Speaker 1: get back to an NBA finals. He was thereon okay

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Speaker 1: in okay, see has it been back since Dan Reno

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Speaker 1: gets to the super Bowl in your two? Never gets back.

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Speaker 1: He's still like an all time great quarterback. Like you

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Speaker 1: could do this across all sports. This idea that it's

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Speaker 1: title or bust, I think is a little chilly. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: in my men's league, which I know you guys love

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Speaker 1: to hear about herd fans, especially, we won the title

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Speaker 1: first year, got to the final, second year, lost in

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Speaker 1: the top league, and we were ticked off and upset

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Speaker 1: and it felt like a letdown, but we got to

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Speaker 1: the finals. Imagine if I said we didn't make the playoffs,

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Speaker 1: I would feel like a loser. Imagine I said we

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Speaker 1: got upset in the first round, I'd be like, what, Oh,

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Speaker 1: this is embarrassing. What about am I doing? Maybe I

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Speaker 1: shoudn't even play? So I just frustrated me, Rob And

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Speaker 1: now I've stolen a lot of your thunder. But you

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Speaker 1: did push my button, So congratulations. And the Nuggets won

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Speaker 1: and the Heat lost, and now you can go poop

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Speaker 1: all over Heat culture?

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Speaker 2: How am I pooping over Heat Culture? Look, the whole

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Speaker 2: thing is not to denigrate the Heat and what their

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Speaker 2: accomplishments were. But the key word that you mentioned was expectations. Right,

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Speaker 2: And the only reason why Heat culture became this phenomenon

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Speaker 2: that everybody was rallying behind was because nobody expected anything

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Speaker 2: from them. Right. It's very similar, not exactly it's but

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Speaker 2: it's very So I'm alert to the moneyball Oakland. A's

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Speaker 2: the reason why moneyball is a thing and everyone gets

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Speaker 2: so excited about and they made a whole movie about it,

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Speaker 2: was because this plucky little team with no budget was

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Speaker 2: still able to be competitive, right, And the way the

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Speaker 2: movie ends, if I recall, it's them winning a twentieth

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Speaker 2: consecutive game during the regular season, because if you tell

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Speaker 2: the rest of the story, I think they got bounced

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Speaker 2: out in the first round of the playoffs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, yeah, they think they lost. I forget

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Speaker 1: who it was to, but you're right, they lost in

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Speaker 1: the playoffs. They never got to a World Series. Never.

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Speaker 2: Never. And that's the exact same thing that's going on

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Speaker 2: with heat culture. Look, if you want to say that

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Speaker 2: just making the postseason is okay, then you're probably like

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Speaker 2: a Washington Wizards fan. If you want to say that

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Speaker 2: making the second round is okay, then maybe you're like

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Speaker 2: a Philadelphia seventy six ers fan or a Knicks fan.

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Speaker 2: But because I'm a Lakers fan, and I'm sure if

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Speaker 2: you asked the Celtics fan, if you ask a Warrior fan, Now,

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Speaker 2: anything less than a championship is not something where I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna be hanging up a banner or telling everyone, oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: Lake Show, Lakers Culture, Boston Pride. No, that doesn't work

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Speaker 2: like that. And the thing about heat culture is the

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Speaker 2: only time it's ever actually worked and in which case

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Speaker 2: work being win a championship is when they had Shack Wade,

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Speaker 2: Lebron Chris Bosh, which means the only time it's ever

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Speaker 2: worked for them in the real grand scheme of things

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Speaker 2: is when they go about it the same way everybody

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Speaker 2: else does, which means we have a superstar. We're betting

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Speaker 2: that our superstar is better than your superstar, and if

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Speaker 2: he's not, that our role players are good enough to

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Speaker 2: win us a game or two when it matters. Most

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Speaker 2: the Miami Heat have been counting on undrafted guys to

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Speaker 2: pick up the slack. Because Jimmy Butler as great or

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Speaker 2: as you might think Jimmy Butler is, if you really

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Speaker 2: take a look at his playoff stats, playoff Jimmy is

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Speaker 2: the exact same guy as Playoff P Paul George, And

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Speaker 2: for whatever reason, Jimmy Butler is a cult hero and

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Speaker 2: Paul George playoff P is a punchline to a lot

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Speaker 2: of people and the whole world. The whole reason that

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Speaker 2: that's happened, to bring it back full circle is expectations.

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Speaker 2: People expected something from that Clipper team, and that's why

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Speaker 2: way off pe pandemic P became a thing people don't

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Speaker 2: expect anything from the Miami Heat. So if they make

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Speaker 2: a little run here and there and ultimately get bounced

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Speaker 2: out in five, which is exactly what happened, it's considered

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Speaker 2: a good season. I disagree.

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Speaker 1: I disagree with a lot of that. First of all,

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Speaker 1: I do want to point out against the number one seed,

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Butler was the eighth seed against the number one seed,

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Speaker 1: the Bucks. Jimmy Butler averaged thirty seven points per game

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Speaker 1: on fifty nine percent shooting forty four percent for three.

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Speaker 1: He had games of fifty six and forty two in

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Speaker 1: the final tout the Bucks. The number one seed. Paul

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Speaker 1: George is usually since he left Indiana, he's usually been

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Speaker 1: the higher seed. All he's done is let down in

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Speaker 1: the playoffs. Remember in OKAC with Russell Westbrook. I think

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Speaker 1: Dame Lillard knocked him out then. Oh, by the way,

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Speaker 1: they led the Nuggets three to one and Paul and

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Speaker 1: Kawhi gag just choked city. I looked it up today.

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Speaker 1: Kawhi Leonard was six of twenty two. I don't know

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Speaker 1: why Paul George is always getting the heat. Where was

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Speaker 1: Kawhi in Game seven in the bubble against the Nuggets.

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Speaker 1: But you did mention the Celtics is one of those

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Speaker 1: teams that all they do is hang banners, rop titles

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Speaker 1: this century. Milwaukee Bucks won, Toronto Raptors one, Denver Nuggets one,

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Speaker 1: Boston Celtics won. I mean this narrative about the Celtics,

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Speaker 1: I know they wont a billion, but before the Super

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Speaker 1: Team won, and I've argued with people this for years,

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Speaker 1: I'm done doing it. I can still make all the points.

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Speaker 1: But they ushered in Super Team era with kg Ray

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Speaker 1: Allen and Paul Pierce, and they did it because they

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Speaker 1: saw Lebron dominating and they said, we can't take this

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Speaker 1: guy by ourselves. Lebron went through Detroit, which was a

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Speaker 1: championship team, gets to the finals as a young kid,

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Speaker 1: and instantly Boston's like, we need to anti up. They

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Speaker 1: load up. They get a title over the Lakers, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: they've been to the finals more obviously than just that one,

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Speaker 1: but all they have is one title this century. So

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Speaker 1: I mean, I get it as a Lakers fan, totally understand,

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Speaker 1: but the reality is heat culture. I don't think it

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Speaker 1: was a thing with Lebron and Wade. I don't know

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Speaker 1: how it could be. They had Lebron Bosch and Wade,

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Speaker 1: three of the top like fifteen players in the league.

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Speaker 2: But the Heat culture is not just undrafted players. He

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Speaker 2: culture is this military style like we are tough, grinded

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Speaker 2: out team. We do body fat percenta checks. That all

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Speaker 2: existed ever since pat Riley got there. So heat culture

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Speaker 2: has been around for what twenty plus years?

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Speaker 1: Fair? But I think we could say this year's culture

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Speaker 1: is different from the Lebron Wade culture. Correct.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and only one of them whe champions Eury serves Lebron.

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Speaker 1: Lebron rob is in Vegas, if you guys are wondering,

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Speaker 1: which is why his audio sounds like garbage. Also, for

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Speaker 1: those of you wondering things, I'm were in a heat shirt.

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Speaker 1: This is not a heat shirt. This is an unbreakable

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Speaker 1: shirt for the team that I own in the NBL,

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Speaker 1: the New Zealand Breakers. We lost in the championship. It

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Speaker 1: was a huge success, great for the franchise, great for

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Speaker 1: the bottom line. We don't need to talk about that.

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Speaker 1: The heat and the heat culture, I mean wide Back

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and six when they took down the MAVs,

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Speaker 1: there was some heat culture there, but this really feels

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Speaker 1: like it. Bubble go to the finals last year, Eastern

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Speaker 1: Conference Finals, this year finals. Yeah, a title has eluded Butler,

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Speaker 1: and the Heat culture has a ceiling, as do some

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Speaker 1: of these underdog cultures. Moneyball is a great example. You

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Speaker 1: can still change the sport and totally change narratives without

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Speaker 1: winning a title. Moneyball did that. I don't know that

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Speaker 1: the Heat are but I'm very curious going forward, teams

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Speaker 1: will start to mimic some of the Heat culture, and

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Speaker 1: now with some of the new salary cap restrictions, pull

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Speaker 1: back on over pain because Miami has identified a ton

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Speaker 1: of undrafted talent and risen to the top. They're one

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Speaker 1: of the best teams in the league over the last

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Speaker 1: four years. Obviously, not everybody has a title, and they

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Speaker 1: don't have one, but if you look ranking the top

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Speaker 1: five teams, you know it's basically whoever Lebron is playing for.

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Speaker 1: I guess that would be the Lakers, It would be

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Speaker 1: the Golden State Warriors who won the title. It would

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Speaker 1: be the Bucks who want a title, It would be

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Speaker 1: the Nuggets who won a title. And after that, like

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Speaker 1: Celtics are up there, Heat have to be up there.

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Speaker 1: Like they have more finals trips than Tatum, does he not?

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Speaker 1: I think they do. Yeah, they do, so I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I know you're not totally crapping on them, and maybe

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Speaker 1: I oversold it a little bit, but just the idea

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Speaker 1: of getting to the finals, who cares? I just think

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Speaker 1: that's total garbage. I mean, do you know how many

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Speaker 1: players would beg to get to the NBA finals? Like,

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Speaker 1: that's why ring chasing became a thing. You know, Charles

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Speaker 1: Barkley's demand out of Philadelphia back in the day, get

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Speaker 1: me to Phoenix. I need to play for a contenter

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00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,400
Speaker 1: so I can get to the finals. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: so many of these guys doing this, trying to get

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Speaker 1: rings because like playing your whole career and never get anyone.

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Speaker 1: That kind of stinks. And Jimmy Butler's been really close

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Speaker 1: twice and if he were smart, he would go to

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Speaker 1: pat Riley and say, bro I carried us to the

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Speaker 1: finals twice. I got a ceiling when I'm kicking a

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Speaker 1: Max Strus in the corner with the game on the

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Speaker 1: line to send her to a game six. I like

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Speaker 1: Duncan Robinson. Great story. By the way, where the hell

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Speaker 1: was Tyler Hero? He didn't even play like Tyler Hero.

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Speaker 1: Maybe my theory is right, they didn't want him to

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Speaker 1: be damaged. Goods if he got hurt again. But Caleb Martin,

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Speaker 1: nice story. But rob you know this, like you need

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Speaker 1: role players, but if you don't have like role players

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Speaker 1: who are established guys, like seven undrafted dudes contributing, I

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Speaker 1: mean there, you're looking at the bench and it's like

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Speaker 1: Cody Ziller, Cody Zeller, Nuggets went by five. Cody Zeller

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Speaker 1: played one minute in the game. Now he was a

423
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 1: drafted guy, but this is how thin they are. He

424
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,200
Speaker 1: played one minute, he was minus five up in one minute,

425
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,120
Speaker 1: and they lost by five. Obviously, I'm not saying Cody

426
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 1: Zeller is the reason they lost, but in one minute

427
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 1: of action you can't put on the floor. And like Duncan,

428
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,680
Speaker 1: Robinson did not have a good game. High Smith was

429
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 1: a non factor. I don't know, man, I just I

430
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 1: hate bagging on Jimmy Butler. Yes he had I'll turn

431
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 1: over late, but they're not even in position to make

432
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 1: this a game six without Jimmy Butler's thirteen straight points.

433
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 1: I don't know.

434
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 2: It feels like you're just like proving my point right

435
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 2: now because you say that you don't like this thing

436
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 2: where it's just rings or nothing matters. You went on

437
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 2: two minutes explaining why they need more stuff around Jimmy Butler.

438
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 2: If they're gonna win a championship, well take if it's

439
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:47,440
Speaker 2: just a title. If the bar for heat culture and

440
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,399
Speaker 2: the Sixers and the Knicks and whoever other team that

441
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 2: you want to bring in is, hey, we we're a

442
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 2: contending team. We made the finals, then they don't have

443
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,199
Speaker 2: to do anything because they're already a contending team. But

444
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 2: the difference is is you know you mentioned the Lakers,

445
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 2: you mentioned Boston, right, Why on earth where we discuss

446
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 2: trading a all NBA player and Jaylen Brown after they

447
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 2: just made Game seven of the Eastern Conference Finals. If

448
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 2: rings weren't the most important thing, why did Bill Simmons

449
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 2: become a meme when he was sad in the arena?

450
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 2: Unless the goal was to win a championship, you can't

451
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 2: have it both ways. You can't have it. Hey, how

452
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 2: do we win a ring?

453
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 1: Oh? Look, how great this run was.

454
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 2: We're plucky.

455
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 1: No, that's a great question. So if you remember back

456
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 1: in moneyball, what they would do is find mispriced assets

457
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:41,360
Speaker 1: in the market, find an edge on them, pump them up,

458
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 1: get as far as you can and then sell them

459
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 1: off break to the highest bidder. The Miami Heat have

460
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 1: done that. They've identified guys who are mispriced in the market.

461
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 1: Nobody wants Drews and Vincent kaylamar, Oh wait a minute,

462
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,640
Speaker 1: they're kicking ass out here. We got to get those guys.

463
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: So now the Heat can turn those those that they

464
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: uncovered into another star. So that's what the culture is like,

465
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 1: we are gonna do our best in our evaluation stage.

466
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: We're gonna turn these guys into something. We're gonna win

467
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 1: a lot, We're gonna, obviously try to get a title.

468
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: The end game is to win a championship. And we're close.

469
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: We're pretty damn close, are they not. I mean, they

470
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: knocked off the Bucks, the Celtics, they were the eight seed,

471
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: they got to the finals, they ran into a juggernaut

472
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 1: and by the way, also knocking down the Heat and

473
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 1: being like, oh they're not that you know, Heat. Culture's

474
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,679
Speaker 1: a failure, Like the Nuggets were sixteen and four in

475
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 1: the postseason. You look at some of these recent champions,

476
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: like the Bucks didn't go I think they were sixteen

477
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: and five, Like Denver swept lebron in ad dispatched KD

478
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:45,679
Speaker 1: and Booker and just buried the Miami Heat in some

479
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: good games, but they buried him. So in their final

480
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: eleven playoff games, Denver went ten in one. Did I

481
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 1: get that? No? In their final ten they went nine

482
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,199
Speaker 1: in one. They swept the Lakers for one, and then

483
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 1: of course the game six win. No. No, I was right,

484
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: it's eleven and one. The final two they won over

485
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: Phoenix after series being two two. This team is incredible

486
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: and everybody has their limits. Rop I mean, look at

487
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 1: the Lakers. They won the title in twenty twenty in

488
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: the bubble, and we're like, all right, what do we do?

489
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 1: What do we do? Oh? Wait, we got a jettison KCP,

490
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 1: get out of here, Kuzma. They tore the whole damn

491
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 1: thing down and they didn't get back until they had

492
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: to build it back up again. Like, I don't know, obviously,

493
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: I think both of us are right. There's shades of

494
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 1: gray that for whatever reason, you're not willing to accept

495
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 1: that you can get a long way with culture. That

496
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 1: should be applauded. And it's not a failure because they

497
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 1: didn't win the title.

498
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 2: If the goal is to be competitive and to be

499
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 2: a contender, then that's fine, but you don't need to

500
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 2: go No. But I'm saying if for some of these teams,

501
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 2: because realistically, some of these teams their goal is not

502
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 2: to win a championship, like we know that by watching them.

503
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,479
Speaker 2: You know Sacremento was just happy to make the playoffs run, right,

504
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 2: Like I understand R Charlotte. Sure, but the issue is

505
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,360
Speaker 2: is that you don't need to give off this this

506
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 2: fake Bravado, fake culture, fake like mantra that we know

507
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 2: know that we know something that the rest of the

508
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: world doesn't. When the rest of the world knows superstars

509
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 2: win championships, not undrafted players. That's the reality. Okay, if

510
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 2: you want to win a championship, you don't superstar something.

511
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 1: I don't think they know something that the rest of

512
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 1: the league doesn't.

513
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 2: What do they know? They know that we can be

514
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 2: scrappy and not win a championship. There's a lot of

515
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 2: teams that can be scrappy and I win a championship.

516
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 1: Can you can you identify I think the number seven

517
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 1: seven undrafted players and get to the finals. I don't

518
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: Nobody's never done anything like that. I think I saw

519
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: the number against the Celtics forty two or fifty. Oh,

520
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: it's like fifty two percent of their points came from

521
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 1: undrafted players in the series. I think it was fifty two,

522
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: maybe forty two. Whatever the number was it was, it

523
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 1: was by far the biggest in the history of the league.

524
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: So they clearly know something that nobody else does. The

525
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 1: Lakers have no culture. It's basically, let's just spend money

526
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 1: and bring in stars. That's not a culture. The Heat

527
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: have something. The Knicks have been My Knicks, do you

528
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 1: know what they would do right now? They would give

529
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: to get to the finals. I mean lots of time

530
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 1: they made the finals. I think was two thousand or

531
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 1: ninety nine again when they got crushed by the Spurs.

532
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: I don't even think they've been to the Easter Coverence

533
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: Finals in twenty plus years. The Heat had been there

534
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,479
Speaker 1: three times in forty years. The Knicks also no culture.

535
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: You're trying to establish one. That's the hardest thing, really,

536
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 1: maybe not winning a title, but establishing a culture to

537
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: get you to the finals. Who else rob around the

538
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: league has a culture? I would say the Spurs.

539
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 2: Right not anymore?

540
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: Would you agree with Spurs?

541
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 2: No? Their their culture is, Hey, we had Tim Duncan

542
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 2: and then we had Kawhi Leonard. That was their culture.

543
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: Well, are you just omitting Parker and Jenobili in there?

544
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 2: No, I'm saying that, sure, I guess, but it helps

545
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 2: when you have a top five player in NBA history,

546
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 2: Like it's certainly it's like Lebron is Lebron a culture? No,

547
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 2: he's just one really good player, So wherever he goes,

548
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 2: they win. Tim Duncan is a really good player.

549
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: Cut.

550
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,880
Speaker 2: Yes, so Tim Duncan, I guess what would be the culture?

551
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 2: I guess. I guess The overriding point is, well, you

552
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 2: know when when Golden State won a championship, the whole

553
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 2: thing before that was you can't win a championship Like

554
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 2: they're shooting all these threes. That's the games wanting the paint,

555
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 2: that's the way that you get one, all these threes.

556
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 2: And then they did it, and then it became a

557
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 2: copycat league. Do you think teams are gonna now copy

558
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 2: the the Miami Heat style of let's pluck all these

559
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 2: four year you know, college players, undrafted guys, and that's

560
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 2: how we're gonna build out on the margins. No, everyone's

561
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,959
Speaker 2: still gonna look for the same superstar because that's ultimately

562
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 2: what wins championships.

563
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: Right, But there's only like ten superstars in the league, right,

564
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: so not everybody can have one. But if you are Orlando,

565
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: you know, stop thinking like I love Jalen Suggs coming

566
00:28:58,120 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: out again. Zaga. The guy's averaging like nine points again.

567
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, he's still young. I get it. But like,

568
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: imagine if you can supplement your team with undrafted dogs,

569
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: guys who are just pit bulls, who have something to approved,

570
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: have a chip on their shoulder. You know, these type

571
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: of guys. Robs tough to instill a culture. Austin Reeves

572
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: is that's perfect guy. Lakers have one. Lakers have one,

573
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: he'd have seven. They have seven, Austin Reeves, but seven

574
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: in that mold. The other thing, it's tough to have

575
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: a culture, Rob if you don't have continuity at owner

576
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: GM coach like pat Riley's been there forever. Spolstra was

577
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: a video guy. He's been in the ORG forever. It's

578
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: a lot easier to know what you want the Lakers

579
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: rotating cast of coaches. GM's been there for a minute.

580
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: But a lot of these other teams. You can't build

581
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: a culture unless you have continuity. And one could argue

582
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: Phoenix Sun's new owner, he's probably the shadow GM new

583
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: coach like Kevin Durant joins halfway through, we should have

584
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: been able to identify that there's no culture in Phoenix.

585
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: There is it. You can't have one with that much newness.

586
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: So where are the culture teams next year? And one

587
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: of the arguments would be, well, Boston is developing the culture.

588
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: Brad Stevens has been there a while. The coaching stuff

589
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: that that obviously hurt. They're obviously keeping Missoula to hope

590
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: to instill a culture, and you've got like five core

591
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: guys who have been there a long time. There is

592
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: some kind of culture there now. It was lost a

593
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: little bit because it was a defensive culture with Udoka

594
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: and now it's not, so they've got to kind of

595
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: build that up. But there's just not a lot of

596
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: teams with culture, not a lot of superstar teams. A

597
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: lot of people are just a drift. You don't have

598
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: a baseline of what you should be. I mean, would

599
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: you agree with that.

600
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree with that. I think a lot

601
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: of teams don't. Well, I think culture is the wrong.

602
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 2: I think identity is the word that I think as

603
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 2: a better example. Okay, like, hey, our identity is we're

604
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 2: going to be a defensive team, or we're going to

605
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 2: be a team that plays up and now she's a

606
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 2: lot of threes, or you know, I don't even know

607
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 2: what Denver's identity is outside of we have Nikola jokicch

608
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 2: and you don't like you know they're smart, Well, they're

609
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 2: a smart team.

610
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. Let me jump in with the Nuggets because it's

611
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: the last point here. Nuggets Warriors. I compared how they

612
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: were built and to instill a culture draft, Well, you

613
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: gotta hit on your draft picks, develop that those guys,

614
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: and then you supplement them with talent. So Warriors drafted Curry,

615
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: then David Lee, then Clay in consecutive years. They traded

616
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: for Andrew Bogan, who was a former number one pick,

617
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: similar to how they traded for Andrew Wiggins later. Right,

618
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: you need that like top top pick guy who maybe

619
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: didn't pan out somewhere, and then you bring him in.

620
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: Then they drafted Harrison Barnes, drafted Draymond Green. These are

621
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: all like smash hits, Like none of those guys with

622
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 1: Lee was good, and then they moved him. They traded

623
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: for Iguodala, who was I think a top ten pick.

624
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: He went to Phoenix out of Arizona. They signed role

625
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: players Maurice Spates Sean Livingston, who was once like a

626
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: ballyhoot high school player, had a gruesome knee injury. So

627
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: you see how they draft and then add smaller pieces.

628
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: Go get the Nuggets draft Yo Kitchen fourteen. That's a

629
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: massive steal. Forty first overall draft, Jamal Murray in sixteen,

630
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: draft MPJ in eighteen. Trade in twenty twenty twenty one

631
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: for Aaron Gordon, former top five pick, trade for KCP winner.

632
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: Defensive mentality was around Lebron knows what it takes to

633
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: win in twenty twenty two, and then supplement it with

634
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: Jeff Green veteran signing. Congrats of Jeff Green on his

635
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: first championship. And then Bruce Brown, good guy in Brooklyn, tough,

636
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,479
Speaker 1: gritty role player. Like again, no superstars brought in, so

637
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: there are more than one way to skin a cat.

638
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: Lakers obviously do it one way, but the Miami Heat

639
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: have done it largely through the draft and undrafted guys,

640
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: and then of course Butler and I think the Nuggets

641
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: have done a great job. Rob there is a blueprint

642
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: out there.

643
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 2: Now.

644
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: It's tough for the Lakers because they don't want to

645
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: go through this rebuilding of drafting for six years. But

646
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: oh wait a minute, they did after Kobe. By the way,

647
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: some of my buddies who are Lakers fans, let me know, Jay,

648
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: you gotta lay off copy. Come on, brother, crushing the guy,

649
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: rip Kobe. I get it. Reality is, Kobe demanded a

650
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: lot of money. They had had a lot of high

651
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: picks and like none of them panned out. Lonzo Ball

652
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: second overall, I mean, they could have had Tatum, Julius Randall,

653
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: good player, didn't totally pan out. Didn't they have another

654
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: high pick, Rob.

655
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 2: Brandon Ingram, Lonzo Ball. They had a couple of guys.

656
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 1: Brandon Ingram did not pan out a good player, but

657
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: none of it worked because they wanted to go to the

658
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: superstar right there on the patients, which I get, you're

659
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: the Lakers. Anyways, we've rambled Rob. NBA season over a

660
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: year away from next year's finals. Injuries happened free agency.

661
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: If you had to pick three teams who you would

662
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: look at to bet pre draft, pre free agency to

663
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: be in the finals next year, I'll win it be

664
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: in the finals. Give me three.

665
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 2: Teams Denver, Milwaukee, Phoenix, Phoenix.

666
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you think they're gonna get a guy.

667
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 2: I think that they'll get They'll get the requisite depth.

668
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 2: I think they ran into the same issue that the

669
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 2: Lakers did with Lebron ad and Westbrook, where they try

670
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 2: to be so top heavy. They're going to realize Booker

671
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 2: and KD is enough. We got to get good role

672
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 2: players around him. So I think they're going to be

673
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 2: really good next season.

674
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: So according to the odds, obviously den for the favorite,

675
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: Boston second, Milwaukee fifteen to two, Lakers ten to one.

676
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 1: Sixers are a team that's interesting if they can get

677
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 1: Dame or keep James Harden and do some other stuff.

678
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: If you're looking for long shots from me, Dallas Mavericks,

679
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: just because I don't they have a chip in Kyrie,

680
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: I don't know. Obviously twenty to one. I would love

681
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: it if they got rid of Kyrie and did something creative.

682
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: Can they get Damian Lillard? I don't know. I'd love

683
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: Damian Lillard next to Luca Oh my gosh. But you

684
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: got to reroute Kyrie somewhere because he's not going to Portland.

685
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: And then Sacramento thirty to one, built through the draft,

686
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: big trade for Sabonis. I think they're a piece of

687
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: two away from being a really d I'll say one

688
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: piece away because I think Barnes is gonna move on

689
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: more for Keegan Marae. And now I'm going way ramble.

690
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: All Right, that's a long podcast. Congrats to the Nuggets,

691
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: NBA draft coming up, and then a lot of NFL talk.

692
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: To you tomorrow