Speaker 1: Ah. Gwyneth Paltrow's butthole is what Kava and I are
Speaker 1: talking about right now. Cava, hooda doctor, you were just
Speaker 1: interviewed by BuzzFeed about said butthole. How did that go?
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting I have been spending a lot
Speaker 1: more time talking about Gwyneth Paltrow's rectum than I ever
Speaker 1: thought I would. I assumed going into medicine I would
Speaker 1: a little. I just didn't think this much a lot.
Speaker 1: I actually feel like a startling number of doctors have
Speaker 1: a similar story. A Cava, Welcome back to the show
Speaker 1: for you and I. It's been weeks for the people listening.
Speaker 1: They have been jerked as if through time travel from
Speaker 1: the live show that we did earlier this year at
Speaker 1: sketch Fest into this conversation right now about Gwyneth Paltrow's butthole,
Speaker 1: which could cause psychological damage. We may have destroyed some people.
Speaker 1: I think people will be very disappointed to realize how
Speaker 1: little growth there's been personally between us in the weeks
Speaker 1: from the show to now. There's been like maybe you'll
Speaker 1: notice you can like track it. You can just like
Speaker 1: pay attention to what we said then and now, and
Speaker 1: you could see a downward trajectory of our emotional growth.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, I think definitely we have like regressed
Speaker 1: in a number of ways. For example, I no longer
Speaker 1: know how to drive. I'm still driving. I'm still driving,
Speaker 1: don't worry, but I've lost the ability to determine what
Speaker 1: the signs mean. Thankfully, my vehicle is very large, so
Speaker 1: it's been okay so far. You know, I just kind
Speaker 1: of americad my way through that problem like everyone else
Speaker 1: on the road in a truck. Yeah. No, that's good.
Speaker 1: It's healthy, and it's American, and it's here, it's now.
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it too. Speaking of American,
Speaker 1: nothing could be more American than adopting unhinged and dangerous
Speaker 1: diets that you stick to like a religion for a
Speaker 1: series of farcical health benefits that are in no way real.
Speaker 1: That is maybe the most American thing that there is.
Speaker 1: It's the driving a truck without knowing how to drive.
Speaker 1: Of healthcare. We are the best at it. We are.
Speaker 1: Other people have tried. I've seen the Germans give a
Speaker 1: good shot at it, but no one does it like
Speaker 1: we know. Know, you think the Mongolians could do nonsense
Speaker 1: like this, Absolutely not they're fad diets are trash. No,
Speaker 1: they're fad diets are probably actually okay for you. But
Speaker 1: ours are the good old fashioned, nonsense fad diets. Yes,
Speaker 1: photos in this script are so gross, Oh, Sophie, I
Speaker 1: haven't even put all of the grossest photos in there.
Speaker 1: I'm waiting on those because I want I want you
Speaker 1: to be surprised by them too, Sophie. So I felt like, oh, oh,
Speaker 1: first off, you know, a live show, we kind of
Speaker 1: have to be a little leaner than we do in
Speaker 1: our normal shows. We don't have as much room to
Speaker 1: kind because you know, you get a heart out. Usually
Speaker 1: the venues only open so long. So there's stuff that
Speaker 1: we kind of left on the cutting room floor. And
Speaker 1: as I was putting that stuff back in so we
Speaker 1: could talk about it, now, there's also a bunch of
Speaker 1: stuff that I found and was fascinated by. And now
Speaker 1: we're just going to kind of talk about some really
Speaker 1: fucked up shit for a while, and if there's time
Speaker 1: left over, we may watch some more liver king. But
Speaker 1: first off, yeah, I wanted to talk Kaba a little
Speaker 1: bit about the realities of the so called primal diet. Now,
Speaker 1: obviously we've used that word a lot in Part one,
Speaker 1: in the context of the liver King. The term has
Speaker 1: I mean, this goes back quite a while, but one
Speaker 1: of kind of the modern users of this term, one
Speaker 1: of the people who's been most responsible for sort of
Speaker 1: making it a big deal in the Internet age, is
Speaker 1: a health grifter. He would call himself a health blogger
Speaker 1: named Mark Sisson. Mark is the author of the Primal Blueprint,
Speaker 1: which he describes as a set of rules to let you,
Speaker 1: quote control how your genes express themselves in order to
Speaker 1: build the strongest, leanest, healthiest body possible clues from evolutionary biology,
Speaker 1: and I think some of what's going on there is
Speaker 1: we talk about this and some of the Jordan Peterson
Speaker 1: episodes very common misunderstandings of epigenetics, which are often taken
Speaker 1: by these guys to mean that like, oh, you can
Speaker 1: activate superpowers in your blood from your ancestors, and are
Speaker 1: more often like, well, sometimes you can activate through environmental
Speaker 1: stresses things that are beneficial, but sometimes you get diabetes.
Speaker 1: Like it's a crapshoot exactly, And the very basic tenets
Speaker 1: of this are always so off. It's just like, first
Speaker 1: of all, to assume our ancestors all ate the same
Speaker 1: thing as ridiculous. Yes, we will talk about that. Yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: but no no please content. Yeah, it's I'm sure you're
Speaker 1: going to talk about this. But it like you said,
Speaker 1: you we left a lot of meat on the bone,
Speaker 1: sort of sea from that. Do you like that? That's
Speaker 1: a yeah reference? Yeah, yeah. But and now as we're
Speaker 1: going to do a meat you know, as we've left
Speaker 1: meat on the bone, this is we're making like a
Speaker 1: nice stew a bone broth, which which these guys are
Speaker 1: soaking too. Yeah, we're just going to soak in this.
Speaker 1: It's um, I'm assuming this guy was like a wellness influencer, right, Like,
Speaker 1: how long ago was it that this, the primal diet
Speaker 1: came out. Yeah, back in like the nineteen sixties, I
Speaker 1: think is kind of when a lot of this started.
Speaker 1: It was generally called the Caveman or Paleolithic diet, And yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of it revolves around the idea that our
Speaker 1: earliest ancestors, who lived from around two and a half
Speaker 1: million years ago to about ten thousand BC, had everything
Speaker 1: figured out nutrition wise, right. They were they were doing
Speaker 1: it like perfect. They avoided seed, oils and processed foods,
Speaker 1: They ate exclusively meat. This is what guys like marxis
Speaker 1: on claim that, like, yeah, they avoided seed, oils and
Speaker 1: process foods, that's why they were so healthy. They ate
Speaker 1: nothing but meat, or sixty to seventy percent of their
Speaker 1: diet was meat. And that is kind of the ancient
Speaker 1: man that food bloggers and fitness influence. There's in the
Speaker 1: primal space like our liver king imagine them. Now, not
Speaker 1: all of what the paleo crowd is saying is bad, obviously, Kava.
Speaker 1: As you know, processed foods are associated with higher cancer risks,
Speaker 1: especially processed meats. That is something you definitely want to
Speaker 1: limit in your diet optimal help. Red meat is associated
Speaker 1: though as well cancer, which is the funny thing. They
Speaker 1: never seem to note that that, like well, but red
Speaker 1: meats also not great for you in massive quantities. The
Speaker 1: funny thing about these guys is that their whole point
Speaker 1: is like modernity is killing us, And yes, modernity is,
Speaker 1: but it's more because of guys like this and their
Speaker 1: ability to reach millions of people via the Internet. You know, yeah,
Speaker 1: not everything they're saying is wrong, Like, yeah, you're totally right.
Speaker 1: Processed foods and particularly processed deli meats. Red meats are
Speaker 1: not good for you, you should avoid them, but to
Speaker 1: like glorify this ancient diet, which you know, they're probably
Speaker 1: not getting right and it's gonna be exposing them to
Speaker 1: higher risks of cancer due to red meat and lower
Speaker 1: fiber and probably lower micronutrients because of this, these primal
Speaker 1: paleo diets, I mean, yeah, they miss the points there.
Speaker 1: They're just their cherry picking little health points that help
Speaker 1: them sell a supplement at the end of the day.
Speaker 1: They're doing that, and they're also kind of like one
Speaker 1: of the things like, yeah, if you are if you
Speaker 1: are someone who is like living in a food desert,
Speaker 1: eating you know, reheated meals or whatever swansons and stuff
Speaker 1: for every meal or fast food all the time, and
Speaker 1: you are able to switch over to like a you know,
Speaker 1: raw food diet made out around like lean organic meats, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you will probably notice some health benefits. But also most
Speaker 1: of the people who are living that kind of diet
Speaker 1: are doing it because it's what's affordable, it's what they
Speaker 1: have time to cook if they're working eighty hours a week,
Speaker 1: you know, if they live in a food desert, like
Speaker 1: millions of Americans do, they you know, processed foods or
Speaker 1: what they have access to. So kind of inherently a
Speaker 1: lot of the when you do see different health outcomes
Speaker 1: with the people using you know, living the Primal Life
Speaker 1: or whatever, or doing Keto or whatever fad diet they're
Speaker 1: doing a lot of it's just going to be like, well,
Speaker 1: you're rich, so like, yeah, you know, you're accrediting it
Speaker 1: to this fad diet. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: you have the money to eat healthy and intentionally, as
Speaker 1: opposed to like, well, I have seventeen minutes to figure
Speaker 1: out what I'm having for dinner and it can't cost
Speaker 1: more than four dollars, which a lot of people are
Speaker 1: in that boat, and that you know you're not going
Speaker 1: to be able to make the healthiest possible joyce if
Speaker 1: that's the reality you're living with. Yeah, yeah, So there
Speaker 1: is other stuff that's kind of more on the fence.
Speaker 1: In terms of paleo advice. Paleo people tend to avoid
Speaker 1: dairy or processed grains, and while it is absolutely true
Speaker 1: that a lot of people eat more dairy than is
Speaker 1: ideal for their health, if you look at like the
Speaker 1: groups of people who are longest lived in the world.
Speaker 1: For example, an awful lot of them eat lots of
Speaker 1: yogurt like that, as traditional food like keffer and different
Speaker 1: things like that. Those can be parts of very healthy
Speaker 1: diets and are for large quantities of people. And also
Speaker 1: a lot of these paleo folks are replacing whatever they're
Speaker 1: cutting out with ma quantities of raw head meat if
Speaker 1: you're the liver king, or just red meat if you're
Speaker 1: a normal paleo person, and that's not necessarily an upgrade
Speaker 1: from a health standpoint. Meanwhile, some of the stuff they're
Speaker 1: cutting out, like bread. You know, whitebread's not great, but
Speaker 1: there's all sorts of very healthy breads and very healthy
Speaker 1: grains that are good for your diet, and that are also,
Speaker 1: as we'll talk about, part of a diet human beings
Speaker 1: have been eating for hundreds of thousands of years. These
Speaker 1: kind of people also tend to avoid peanuts, lintels, bees, peas,
Speaker 1: and legumes, which are all potentially healthy and we're also
Speaker 1: probably available to many ancient peoples. As you noted, there
Speaker 1: are many health issues with a diet heavy and red meats,
Speaker 1: and consuming said meat raw offers no health benefits and
Speaker 1: many downsides. It is worth noting a lot of primal
Speaker 1: diet advocates are not weirdos about eating it uncooked like
Speaker 1: the liver king is. But by far the most unhealthy
Speaker 1: thing about these specific primal diet folks is their insistence
Speaker 1: that not only does their exclusionary diet benefit health, which
Speaker 1: is debatable, but that adhering to such a diet will
Speaker 1: cure modern illnesses. They call these modern illnesses like diabetes.
Speaker 1: Um Sisson writes on his blog, while the world has
Speaker 1: changed in innumerable ways in the last ten thousand years,
Speaker 1: for better and worse, the human genome has changed very
Speaker 1: little and thus only thrives under similar conditions. And that's
Speaker 1: that's not true. No, that's not true at all, very
Speaker 1: actually wrong. No, like say some bullshit it is it,
Speaker 1: I mean, and among other things, like a lot of
Speaker 1: these people are the folks who focus on like gut
Speaker 1: health and stuff, and we'll talk about gut biome and
Speaker 1: not acknowledge that like well, actually a lot of what
Speaker 1: has to do with whether or not we can like
Speaker 1: digest certain things has to do with gut biome, which
Speaker 1: can change much faster than ten thousand years. You know.
Speaker 1: It's it's funny these these people. The reason I think
Speaker 1: he does. He sells these like foods or the reason
Speaker 1: the liver king, I assume is pushing these this diet
Speaker 1: is not because he is even in any sense believes
Speaker 1: it works. It's just because he knows it's disgusting and
Speaker 1: he knows that no one will eat it, but he
Speaker 1: has convinced people that it's going to help him to
Speaker 1: help them because of modernity and ancient detoxing and all
Speaker 1: these nonsense words that every grifter in wellness throws out there,
Speaker 1: and because he knows no one will want to do
Speaker 1: the nasty stuff that he is advertising, which gets the
Speaker 1: clicks that he can then seek to say, instead of
Speaker 1: doing all that, you just have this, I'll take care
Speaker 1: of it. This is the stuff that you need. This
Speaker 1: one little pill. It's it's an ancient pill made in
Speaker 1: a lab. It is, it is not. It is modern,
Speaker 1: but it's not modern, and it's not gonna be. It's
Speaker 1: gonna be a modern thing that's ancient. In this nonsense
Speaker 1: that somehow people will buy and do the mental gymnastics
Speaker 1: around until they get to this point where they are
Speaker 1: willing to spend shit tons of money on these products
Speaker 1: that are completely unproven in any way yeah, and it's
Speaker 1: it's making advantage of the fact that, like health is confusing,
Speaker 1: there is a lot that we don't understand, particularly when
Speaker 1: it comes to stuff like why is it hard for
Speaker 1: some people to lose weight or keep weight off? Like
Speaker 1: why is it difficult for people to control their blood sugar?
Speaker 1: Like all of the there's all these different things that like,
Speaker 1: even when there is an answer, maybe you don't have
Speaker 1: good access to it because you don't have good access
Speaker 1: to quality medical care. But you always have access to TikTok, right,
Speaker 1: and so this guy can offer you a solution to
Speaker 1: all of your health problems. It's worth noting that, like,
Speaker 1: as we've talked about, the idea that human beings have
Speaker 1: not changed fundamentally in ten thousand years or however long
Speaker 1: is fundamentally untrue, as this right up from Scientific American
Speaker 1: makes clear. I'm going to quote from this now because
Speaker 1: it summarizes it pretty well. Several examples of recent and
Speaker 1: relatively speedy human evolution underscore that our anatomy and genetics
Speaker 1: have not been set in stone since the Stone Age.
Speaker 1: Within a span of seven thousand years. For instance, people
Speaker 1: adapted to eating dairy by developing lactose tolerance. Usually the
Speaker 1: gene encoding an enzyme named lactase, which breaks down lactose
Speaker 1: sugars and milk, shuts down after infancy. When dairy became prevalent,
Speaker 1: many people evolved a mutation that kept the gene turned
Speaker 1: on throughout life. Likewise that a genetic mutation responsible for
Speaker 1: blue eyes likely arose between six thousand and ten thousand
Speaker 1: years ago, and in regions where malaria is common, natural
Speaker 1: selection has modified people's immune systems in red blood cells
Speaker 1: in ways that help them resist the mosquito born disease.
Speaker 1: Some of these genetic mutations appeared within the last ten
Speaker 1: thousand years, or even five thousand years. The organisms with
Speaker 1: which we share our bodies have evolved even faster, particularly
Speaker 1: the billions of bacteria living in our intestines our gut.
Speaker 1: Bacteria interact with our food in many ways, helping us
Speaker 1: break down tough plant fibers, but also competing for calories.
Speaker 1: We do not have direct evidence of which bacterial species
Speaker 1: thrived in the Paleolithic intestines, but we can be sure
Speaker 1: that their microbial communities do not match our own, Even
Speaker 1: if eating only foods available to hunter gatherers in the
Speaker 1: Paleolithic made sense, it would be impossible. As Christino Warriner
Speaker 1: of the University of Zurich pre sizes in her twenty
Speaker 1: twelve ted talk, just about every single species commonly consumed today,
Speaker 1: whether a fruit, vegetable, or animal, is drastically different from
Speaker 1: its Paleolithic predecessor. In most cases, we have trans formed
Speaker 1: the species we eat through artificial selection. We have bread cows, chickens,
Speaker 1: and goats to provide as much meat, milk, and eggs
Speaker 1: as possible, and have sown seeds only from plants with
Speaker 1: the most desirable traits, with the biggest fruits, plumpest kernels,
Speaker 1: Swedish flesh, and fewest natural toxins, and like, yeah, this
Speaker 1: is like I think a big part of it for
Speaker 1: me is this ignorance of the fact that everything has
Speaker 1: changed about the things that people have access too since then.
Speaker 1: There's basically no one who's capable of living and eating
Speaker 1: the diet people did ten thousand years ago, or even
Speaker 1: particularly close to that diet. And I mean he's right
Speaker 1: to some degree. We haven't evolved so far from those
Speaker 1: ancestors that we would look that dramatically different, but there
Speaker 1: have been acquired genetic mutations since then. Things that help
Speaker 1: us with the changing diets, like starches or being able
Speaker 1: to consume cow's milk well until through childhood. I mean,
Speaker 1: you could debate how much, but clearly we have. Clearly
Speaker 1: there has been some aptation that much we can see. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean there's there's just a um if you want
Speaker 1: to think about, like how much even animals have changed.
Speaker 1: Like there are a lot of species of livestock that
Speaker 1: require assistance in birthing. They're young because of the ways
Speaker 1: in which we have bred them, and like wild animals,
Speaker 1: the ancestors of those animals did not need human beings
Speaker 1: to deliver their babies right like obviously they did, Otherwise
Speaker 1: they wouldn't have survived. The Kentucky fried chicken chickens that
Speaker 1: come out so big, they're breaks so big they cannot
Speaker 1: mate or walk. Yeah, we made those. We invented them,
Speaker 1: you could, I mean, and maybe we shouldn't have, but
Speaker 1: we did. And they're not the same as whatever people
Speaker 1: were eating eight thousand years ago, even if they were
Speaker 1: eating chicken um. Very basic research done by scientists who
Speaker 1: study prehistoric man with rigor rather than write fantasies about him,
Speaker 1: shows they're also they also were not immune to health problems,
Speaker 1: which is like the weirdest thing about this to me.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of it started. There was a
Speaker 1: lot of writing you would see thirty forty years ago
Speaker 1: about like, you know, people in ten thousand BC, twenty
Speaker 1: thousand BC probably you know, if you survived to adulthood,
Speaker 1: would have had kind of a muscle and bone density
Speaker 1: that only like the very best athletes have today, which like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: they were living outside the whole time, they were always moving,
Speaker 1: they were always like yeah, maybe that was the case,
Speaker 1: but that's kind of translated into they didn't have any
Speaker 1: health problems and like none of the modern issues that
Speaker 1: we have, which is objectively untrue. For one thing, obviously
Speaker 1: a minority of our paleo ancestors lived to adulthood. Many
Speaker 1: would have died before fifteen, which is why their life
Speaker 1: expectancy was so low. More to the point, they suffered
Speaker 1: a lot of the same ailments we did. A recent
Speaker 1: lance At study found signs of atherosclerosis or clogged arteries,
Speaker 1: and more than a hundred mummified remains from ancient hunter
Speaker 1: gatherer and forager societies around the world. Quote. A common
Speaker 1: assumption is that atherosclerosis is predominantly lifestyle related, and that
Speaker 1: if modern human beings could emulate pre industrial or even
Speaker 1: pre agricultural lifestyles, that athlerosclerosis, or at least it's clinical manifestations,
Speaker 1: would be avoided. But they found evidence of atherosclerosis in
Speaker 1: forty seven of one hundred and thirty seven mummies from
Speaker 1: each of the different geological or geographical regions. So, like,
Speaker 1: like the shit that they claim is like, well, this
Speaker 1: is a result of your process diet. Yeah, I'm sure
Speaker 1: that that makes it worse in some cases more common,
Speaker 1: but like they got this shit back then too, and
Speaker 1: parts of a lot of red made. Yeah, there's there's
Speaker 1: always this interaction between like and I'm sorry, this is good.
Speaker 1: This is like the probably more sciency than you guys want,
Speaker 1: but like there's always this complicated interaction between your genetics
Speaker 1: and your environment and the things you do and how
Speaker 1: it affects your body and how people with a cholesterol
Speaker 1: how that they may react or how they may have
Speaker 1: it in their bodies. And you know, when it comes
Speaker 1: down to it, it genetically, as long as you're able
Speaker 1: to pass on your genes, which means you're able to
Speaker 1: have sex at some point and have kids then whatever
Speaker 1: happens after that doesn't matter as much. So if you
Speaker 1: are dying of athosclerosis in your thirties, your forties, you
Speaker 1: know you were still able to pass on your genes.
Speaker 1: It didn't make you genetically weaker, it didn't get it
Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily be affected that way. So it could still
Speaker 1: be there. It could have been there then and still
Speaker 1: here now. And we know that there is like a
Speaker 1: genetic contribution to all these diseases. Yeah, and there are
Speaker 1: you know, reasonable people in the paleo subculture that reject
Speaker 1: the liver king stuff about munching raw organs, but they
Speaker 1: still tend to see the basic realities of the ancient diet.
Speaker 1: They tend to argue that the basic realities of the
Speaker 1: ancient diet provided a good guideline for optimal health performance,
Speaker 1: which is also just nonsense. As you mentioned a little
Speaker 1: bit earlier, we don't really know much what about We
Speaker 1: don't know much about what prehistoric people ate in a
Speaker 1: lot of cases, in all regions of the globe, certainly,
Speaker 1: and we don't know how widespread different kinds of prehistoric
Speaker 1: diets were. But we do know that they were different
Speaker 1: all over the place based on the time of year
Speaker 1: and based on what different people had access to. But
Speaker 1: kind of more pointedly, there's no such thing as the
Speaker 1: primal diet or the hunter gatherer diet. There were a
Speaker 1: bunch of different ones. I'm looking at a chart right
Speaker 1: now that kind of lays out, and this is looking
Speaker 1: at modern modern hunter gatherers, and modern hunter gatherers like
Speaker 1: the Inuit, like the Hwei, like the Kung, like the Hadza,
Speaker 1: are often called like living fossils because of how similar
Speaker 1: they supposedly were to our hunter gatherer ancestors. That is
Speaker 1: not true. There's certainly value in studying them. You can
Speaker 1: learn things about hunter gatherers in all periods by studying
Speaker 1: hunter gatherers today. But these are modern people living in
Speaker 1: the modern world, whose lifestyle, whose bodies, whose health have
Speaker 1: been affected by modernity. They are not fossils. They're human beings.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine they like that term. No, look they
Speaker 1: are They're just people, you know. Now, It is worth
Speaker 1: kind of if you want to look at, like what
Speaker 1: these different people's diet includes. Inuit folks as much as
Speaker 1: like nineteen ninety five percent of their diet from animal
Speaker 1: products from animals that they hunt. The hewe people, it's
Speaker 1: more like eighty percent animals, about ten to fifteen percent
Speaker 1: fruits and vegetables, and then about fifteen to twenty percent
Speaker 1: roots something like that. Seventy five percent maybe a meat.
Speaker 1: But the e Kung only eat about ten percent of
Speaker 1: their calories fifteen percent of their calories from meat, whereas
Speaker 1: they get about twice as much from fruits and vegetables.
Speaker 1: They eat a few roots. The vast majority of their
Speaker 1: caloric intake more than half as seeds and nuts, and
Speaker 1: they get a little bit from meat or from milk
Speaker 1: and corn meal. The Hadza are at about fifty percent
Speaker 1: of their calories from meat and fish, they get you know,
Speaker 1: about fifteen twenty percent from fruits and vegetables, and then
Speaker 1: about thirtyish percent something like that from roots. So as
Speaker 1: you can see, even within just these four people, the
Speaker 1: diet varies quite widely. And like you know, you could
Speaker 1: look at the Inuit and say, well, that looks like
Speaker 1: least in terms of quantity of meat consumed, like what
Speaker 1: the liver king is doing. But if you look at
Speaker 1: the Akung, that doesn't look at all like the liver
Speaker 1: king's diet, nor really does the Hadza. So it probably
Speaker 1: behooves us to take a deeper look at one of
Speaker 1: these people, the hwe to just talk about kind of
Speaker 1: how their their diet and their health actually are in modernity,
Speaker 1: because they do eat a get about seventy five percent
Speaker 1: of their calories from meat and fish, and most of this,
Speaker 1: like sometimes up to ninety five percent of their diet
Speaker 1: is wild caught or wild foraged. Right, so they are
Speaker 1: getting almost everything they eat from nature around them in
Speaker 1: a way that is very traditional, that is very much
Speaker 1: kind of like what these paleo people imagine folks, you know,
Speaker 1: the hunter gatherers. They're looking back to getting their calories from.
Speaker 1: But the animals they're not eating, for one thing, are
Speaker 1: not the kinds of animals that you are going to
Speaker 1: find in a grocery store. The hue eat capybara, they
Speaker 1: eat colored peccary, they eat ant eater, armadillo, fish, turtles, iguanas, birds.
Speaker 1: A lot of these are species that simply are not
Speaker 1: available in grocery stores. I would I would love to
Speaker 1: try cappy barra if I'm being honest. I've seen a
Speaker 1: couple of the zoo and I could they look a
Speaker 1: little tasty. They have like a little juice to them,
Speaker 1: like a little ham running around with fur. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna not eat a cappy barra if it's if it's
Speaker 1: an offer to me, absolutely, although they are very sweet
Speaker 1: so that might be emotionally difficult, but it's a hard
Speaker 1: pass for me. I'm I'm a curious man. I'm a
Speaker 1: curious man. I'll eat anything someone offers me in their home.
Speaker 1: I yet exactly. I watched Indiana Jones and the Temple
Speaker 1: of Doom. We've talked about this. There's only one good
Speaker 1: movie of that whole movie. Move one only one good
Speaker 1: part about that whole racist movie, and it's that it
Speaker 1: teaches it doesn't matter what you're what's put in front
Speaker 1: of you, you eat it because that might be the
Speaker 1: last meal that those people have to offer. You eat it.
Speaker 1: That is a that is a firm fit that I
Speaker 1: believe in. That is the one, the one bright moment
Speaker 1: in that in that movie's attitude towards I don't know,
Speaker 1: but then it gets really racist with like, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: get racist pretty quick. Yeah. Anyway, Indiana Jones and the
Speaker 1: Temple of Doom. Doctor Cavahota recommends it as a woke
Speaker 1: guide to life. So let's let's continue talking about the Heewee,
Speaker 1: because while these folks do kind of live the ideal
Speaker 1: liver king life on paper, they are not a famously
Speaker 1: healthy people. Now, obviously this doesn't just due to their diet.
Speaker 1: We do not know how they would have lived a
Speaker 1: couple of thousand years ago, right before you know the colonization.
Speaker 1: You cannot divorce the health problems that these people face
Speaker 1: from capitalist modernity or the degree to which they've had
Speaker 1: their climate ravaged, their environment ravaged, and their traditional homelands
Speaker 1: encroached upon. But they also suffer consequences that have probably
Speaker 1: always been present of eating huge quantities of game that
Speaker 1: has not always been sufficiently cooked. The Heewe are shorter, thinner,
Speaker 1: and less energetic than other hunter gatherer tribes nearby, like
Speaker 1: the Ace and Paraguay. They suffer from infections of parasites
Speaker 1: like hookworms at an exceptionally high rate, and only about
Speaker 1: fifty percent of their children survived to adulthood. Behind the
Speaker 1: paleocras is a legitimate debate by some scholars over the
Speaker 1: realities of the Stone Age diet and how much it
Speaker 1: might match an ideal diet for modern people. The fact
Speaker 1: that some of these scientists like Lauren Cordain of Colorado
Speaker 1: State University have written books advocating the paleo diet. Muddies
Speaker 1: their claims a bit more, and I'm going to quote
Speaker 1: from National Geographic here. After studying the diets of living
Speaker 1: hunter gatherers and concluding that seventy three percent of these
Speaker 1: societies derive more than half their calories from meat, Cordain
Speaker 1: came up with his own paleoprescription. Eat plenty of lean
Speaker 1: mitten fish, but not dairy products, beans, or cereal grains,
Speaker 1: foods introduced into our diet after the invention of cooking
Speaker 1: and agriculture. Paleo diet advocates like Cordain say that if
Speaker 1: we stick to the foods our hunter gatherers once eight,
Speaker 1: we can avoid the diseases of civilization, such as heart disease,
Speaker 1: high blood pressure, diabetes, cancer, even acne. Now, again, there's
Speaker 1: some of this that has its origins and probably kind
Speaker 1: of the motivation to start writing about this shit has
Speaker 1: its origins and as somewhat legitimate anthropological theory, which is
Speaker 1: the idea that we humans might have developed our big
Speaker 1: brains and thus our ability to invent shit like podcasts
Speaker 1: because our ancestors were such good hunters that they eate
Speaker 1: a shitload of protein and that made their brains grow
Speaker 1: up big and strong. Now, it is true that hunter
Speaker 1: gathers around the world crave meat more than any other
Speaker 1: food and usually get around thirty percent or more of
Speaker 1: their annual calories from animals, but most of these groups
Speaker 1: also endure extremely lean times where they eat less than
Speaker 1: a handful of meat each week. There's studies right now
Speaker 1: that suggest that kind of reliance on meat, and ancient
Speaker 1: humans probably was not the only thing that fueled the
Speaker 1: brains expansion, especially since there would have been large chunks
Speaker 1: of the year where that simply would not have been available.
Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about that as well as
Speaker 1: the high meat subculture, which I'm excited to introduce to Yukava.
Speaker 1: But first, you know what, never you know what is
Speaker 1: responsible for our large brains, doctor hoda Um. Yes, the
Speaker 1: fact that the female human anatomy allows for the pelvis
Speaker 1: to have an anterior sort of direction, allows for a
Speaker 1: wider birth canal. And non, no, sorry, no, no, it's
Speaker 1: it's these products and services. That was my second guess.
Speaker 1: That's the second guess. That's right. Uh, we're back, and
Speaker 1: I just I feel smarter. Thanks are amazing dick pill
Speaker 1: ads that really hit the spot. I mean, I typically
Speaker 1: don't like dick pill ads, but those make me think
Speaker 1: that it actually works. Yeah. And and you know what
Speaker 1: they say about dicks, they're like a brain. They're the
Speaker 1: brains of the crotch. Um, that's not what people say. Um,
Speaker 1: So let's talk about um the anthropological theory that a
Speaker 1: reliance on meat is kind of what what made human
Speaker 1: brains get so much bigger. Um. It's kind of worth
Speaker 1: noting that, like the idealized version of hunter gathers and
Speaker 1: of our ancient ancestors is of these kind of like
Speaker 1: super hunters, you know, stumbling into the bush or going
Speaker 1: into the bush with you know, a spear or an
Speaker 1: adiladdle or a bow and arrow, and just like dropping
Speaker 1: animals every single day in order to bring meat back
Speaker 1: to the family. That's not the way it ever has
Speaker 1: been or ever will be, because hunting is actually really hard, Kava.
Speaker 1: It's extremely difficult to do. Um. Today, I try fishing once.
Speaker 1: It didn't work out well for me. Yeah, I would
Speaker 1: if there ever isn't an apocalypse, And I'm going to
Speaker 1: try and find you so you can gather food for
Speaker 1: me and hunt things for me, because I will perish,
Speaker 1: I mean most people will. Basically everyone will perish if
Speaker 1: you rely entirely upon hunting for your calories. Trapping is
Speaker 1: much better, you know, when it comes to fishing, doing
Speaker 1: stuff like setting up kind of traps along the coast
Speaker 1: that are you know, big nets that can sweep up
Speaker 1: large numbers of fish. That's much smarter than just like
Speaker 1: going out into the bush with a bow and arrow.
Speaker 1: You do get calories that way, and you get stuff
Speaker 1: that's useful for you, like you know, skins and pelts
Speaker 1: and whatnot that can be a necessary part of like
Speaker 1: clothing folks. But you know, groups like the Hadza and
Speaker 1: the ku Kung bushmen of Africa fail to get meat
Speaker 1: more than half the time when they go out hunting,
Speaker 1: which doesn't mean they're bad hunters. It's just like hunting
Speaker 1: is difficult, and it's gotten more difficult in the modern period.
Speaker 1: But also, even though certain things have gotten more difficult now,
Speaker 1: they also have better weapons than people would have had
Speaker 1: access to twenty thousand years ago, because again, they're not
Speaker 1: living fossils, right, they're human beings. At twenty twenty three. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of worth noting that when you actually look
Speaker 1: at different kind of people's living a more traditional life,
Speaker 1: who do eat meat all the time and who do
Speaker 1: make it the vast majority of their diet year round,
Speaker 1: it tends to be coastal peoples or people like up
Speaker 1: in the Art. I mean that is also a coastal
Speaker 1: people's like the Inuit, who do a lot of you know, fishing,
Speaker 1: They do a lot of trapping. They do get a
Speaker 1: lot of like larger animals like seals and nar walls.
Speaker 1: But as a general rule, most hunter gatherers cannot rely
Speaker 1: on hunted meat year round, or even trapped meat, which
Speaker 1: is why all of these groups only survived because of foragers,
Speaker 1: which was a job primarily done as far as we can,
Speaker 1: as far as we are aware, by women. Often women
Speaker 1: with like young children would do a lot of the foraging.
Speaker 1: They would get things, you know, various kinds of plants, tubers, nuts.
Speaker 1: It can be kind of resource intensive to process them,
Speaker 1: so it's a good thing to have little kids do.
Speaker 1: It's not hard to teach little kids to like process
Speaker 1: nuts or to process tubers, things like plantains and manioc
Speaker 1: In the Americas, Australian Aboriginal people often feasted on nutgrass
Speaker 1: and water chestnuts. There's this kind of story that these
Speaker 1: peoples all must have been these sort of primal hunters,
Speaker 1: but again, none of them survive without foraging. And when
Speaker 1: they're foraging, they're eating the kind of stuff that these
Speaker 1: primal diet advocates and guys like the liver Kings are
Speaker 1: telling you not to eat, including grains. There's evidence of
Speaker 1: people eating grains for at least one hundred thousand years,
Speaker 1: which is more than enough time for us to have
Speaker 1: evolved the ability to tolerate them. In fact, we would
Speaker 1: not have survived to this point without them. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: have those, We have had adaptations clearly for starches and giants. Sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And there was probably a fairly long period of time
Speaker 1: where large numbers of people were doing a lot of
Speaker 1: weird pooping. And those people are heroes and we should
Speaker 1: remember them as such, our courageous ancestors who pooped out
Speaker 1: grains long enough that they were eventually able to tolerate them.
Speaker 1: God bless you all, heroes, marrigan heroes, just like those
Speaker 1: ancient Europeans guzzling milk and just shitting constantly. For generations
Speaker 1: pooping themselves to death so that I could enjoy a
Speaker 1: nice block of cheese. That's right, just trying different milk
Speaker 1: from different animals. Just pioneers, all so. White people have
Speaker 1: a long history of fetishizing indigenous peoples and those living
Speaker 1: kind of what are called more traditional lifestyles, while also
Speaker 1: attempting to profit off of merchandising aspects of that lifestyle.
Speaker 1: The liver king is one silly example of this trend,
Speaker 1: but perhaps the most preposterous is the tale of high
Speaker 1: meat so covet fermentation. Yeah, yeah, you will make blue
Speaker 1: apron high meat if you just don't take your blue
Speaker 1: Apron bag in for several months, because it's just rotting meat,
Speaker 1: so you can ferment meat. Fermentation is a process of
Speaker 1: controlled decay. You can ferment meat and eat it and
Speaker 1: it can be fine for you. That is a process
Speaker 1: that's not wildly different from the process of making sourkrout.
Speaker 1: Various peoples all around the planet have done this with
Speaker 1: meat and fish for as long as there have been people,
Speaker 1: probably or pretty close to it. There are examples for
Speaker 1: early food and scan andavy. I think like lootfisk, right,
Speaker 1: which is basically fish that you let rot in a
Speaker 1: very specific way so that it ferments. The Greenland Induit,
Speaker 1: the Greenland Inuits enjoy what's called kivac, which is a
Speaker 1: fermented seabird dish, and it's actually fascinating. I've never had this.
Speaker 1: I would try it were it offered to me, as
Speaker 1: we just discussed. But the way that you make kiviak basically,
Speaker 1: you get several hundred small birds called ox, and you
Speaker 1: leaving the feathers and stuff on them. You tightly pack
Speaker 1: the bodies into a bag made of seal skin that
Speaker 1: you've left the fat on because as it rots, the
Speaker 1: fat is going to make the bird meat tender. So
Speaker 1: you sew up this seal skin with all of these
Speaker 1: hundreds of birds in it, and you grease it with
Speaker 1: seal fat, which repels flies, and then you store it
Speaker 1: underneath a bunch of rocks right so that animals can't
Speaker 1: get to it, and you let it ferment for I
Speaker 1: think usually it's something like three or four months. When
Speaker 1: the process is done, when you kind of come back
Speaker 1: for it, you open it up, you remove the feathers
Speaker 1: from the birds, and then you eat the birds skin, bones,
Speaker 1: organs and all. It's consumed raw I think the bones
Speaker 1: get a lot softer when you kind of let it
Speaker 1: ferment like that, And that's the thing. A lot of
Speaker 1: people are gonna be like, well, that sounds nasty, and
Speaker 1: that's fine. You don't need to eat it. I would
Speaker 1: again I try it. The Greenland Inuits, like most Inuit people's,
Speaker 1: eat mostly meat, and they sometimes get as much as
Speaker 1: ninety eight percent of their calories from animals. They do
Speaker 1: consider kivaka delicacy, but it evolved for a specific and
Speaker 1: very practical purpose. The fact is that hunting, as we've
Speaker 1: talked about, is often difficult or impossible for chunks of
Speaker 1: the year. Think about what it's like where the Greenland
Speaker 1: induits live. There's times where you simply can't go out
Speaker 1: and hunt because it's too fucking cold to survive doing that,
Speaker 1: and you need to have food that's stored that can
Speaker 1: tide you over during those periods of time. Kiviak is
Speaker 1: hunted and prepared in the spring so that it can
Speaker 1: be consumed during the winter, and it was probably developed
Speaker 1: over time as a way to preserve calories during periods
Speaker 1: of abundance for the lean winter months. Because it contains
Speaker 1: so much organ meat. Kiviac is extremely high vitamins and nutrients.
Speaker 1: It is thus an incredibly pragmatic thing to have in
Speaker 1: your diet if you live the way in Greenland that
Speaker 1: the Inuit do, right, it makes total sense when you
Speaker 1: actually think about logically, why would they do this? What
Speaker 1: role does it fulfill? A very practical thing to do.
Speaker 1: But of course weirdo fitness influencers and diet freaks on
Speaker 1: the internet have leaped onto the idea that fermented meat
Speaker 1: is the ultimate source of nutrition. They call it high meat,
Speaker 1: which they say, I think is a term that has
Speaker 1: been used and been used by some Inuit peoples rather
Speaker 1: than but you know, when we're talking about like kivac,
Speaker 1: this is a that's a pretty deliberate and elaborate process.
Speaker 1: Lot of high meat advocates are basically leaving mason jars
Speaker 1: of raw meat out for months at a time, either
Speaker 1: in their fridge or at room temperature, to consume after
Speaker 1: its age. Some people will aid shit for like a year,
Speaker 1: which people aren't generally doing with stuff like kevat. So
Speaker 1: you want, I wonder how many gi illnesses that I,
Speaker 1: as a gastroenteorologists have treated over the years where it
Speaker 1: was someone who did something like this, and they just
Speaker 1: didn't want to tell me. Yeah, they've been eating high
Speaker 1: meat and it's making them boop themselves to death because
Speaker 1: they didn't. Yeah, and it is worth noting you can
Speaker 1: buy meat and you can ferment it and you can
Speaker 1: eat it and it will not be dangerous for it
Speaker 1: is possible. I should I'm not saying you should do this.
Speaker 1: It is theoretically possible to ferment meat as other people
Speaker 1: have done for generations, in a way that is not
Speaker 1: dangerous for you. It is not likely that you are
Speaker 1: going to do it with the advice that you are
Speaker 1: getting on Reddit dot com. And there's no specific health
Speaker 1: benefits for it, right, And again then it are not
Speaker 1: eating kiviak because it's like a super food that gives
Speaker 1: them liver king like powers. They're eating it because like
Speaker 1: it has a lot of vitamins and it stores well, right,
Speaker 1: Like it's it's not they have to, Yeah, well it's
Speaker 1: if they have to, it's become part of the culture.
Speaker 1: There's all sorts of cheese and stuff. Is a way
Speaker 1: we've got all this milk. How do we store this
Speaker 1: ship for a long period of time? You know? Yeah? Sure,
Speaker 1: some of it was found out by mistake, Like they
Speaker 1: were really hungry and they had stored something and they
Speaker 1: realized it was it was something they had stored for
Speaker 1: a while and it fermented that point and they tried
Speaker 1: it and they realized that they were able to survive
Speaker 1: it and it got them through and then they were
Speaker 1: able to sort of adapt that and make it work
Speaker 1: for them. I get it. Yeah, it's like the story
Speaker 1: of how cheese. I mean this is It probably is
Speaker 1: much it's certainly much more complicated than that. But there's
Speaker 1: kind of like a legend that there's this guy in
Speaker 1: the desert and he's got this water bag that's made
Speaker 1: out of like a lamb's stomach and he pours some
Speaker 1: milk in it to go hiking in the desert and
Speaker 1: over time because it's got that I forget exactly what
Speaker 1: there's like a stomach acid that you used to make cheese,
Speaker 1: and like that's where we we get our cheese from, right,
Speaker 1: is like this guy's hiking and he realizes, oh, something
Speaker 1: has happened. You know. Um, that's that's but delicious. You
Speaker 1: wouldn't call it cheese is not super food. It doesn't
Speaker 1: because it's made this weird way. It does not come
Speaker 1: with like all sorts of superhuman medical benefits. It can
Speaker 1: be part of a healthy diet, right. High meat advocates
Speaker 1: are of course weirdos on the internet, and so they
Speaker 1: take the weirdo on the internet tact of being like
Speaker 1: this shit gives you powers. Basically, it makes you euphoric.
Speaker 1: It'll they do talk about it helping you lose weight,
Speaker 1: which I suspect they're right about, but not. Yeah. Man,
Speaker 1: if you eat nothing but rotting meat, you will lose weight.
Speaker 1: Your silly shit yourself to good health. Um the Robert
Speaker 1: Evans Health Book. Just get by four hundred hot dogs
Speaker 1: and leave them, leave them in the bed of your truck.
Speaker 1: Get one of those like get get get a four
Speaker 1: D f one fifty that's a key key or a
Speaker 1: Toyota tom and get one of those big metal lids.
Speaker 1: Fill the whole bed with hot dogs and just drive
Speaker 1: around all summer in it. Right, and then when winter
Speaker 1: comes and food is scarce, pop that hood open and
Speaker 1: just go to town with a spoon. You know you're
Speaker 1: good to go. You're good. The hot dog truck is
Speaker 1: the ideal way to consume calories. It'll put it, it'll
Speaker 1: go straight to muscle it's like steroids for you. Really,
Speaker 1: you get extra energy from it. It's great. That's a
Speaker 1: coma truck full of basically hot dog pudding. Yeah, a
Speaker 1: hot dog, A hot dog to coma. Sometimes I'll get
Speaker 1: your sour cream pour some in there too. You want
Speaker 1: to like start at the beginning of June and then
Speaker 1: buy October. Your hot dog to Coma's probably ready to eat.
Speaker 1: Are we just trying to see if we can make
Speaker 1: Sophie puke? Yeah? I think we are. You can't do it,
Speaker 1: but you know who can make Sophie vomit with joy? Yes?
Speaker 1: The sponsors of this podcast. Hey everybody, we're We're back
Speaker 1: and the boy we have some more high meat to
Speaker 1: talk about. But Sophie has informed me that earth shattering
Speaker 1: political news has just come down the fucking pipe. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Donald Donald Trump will be the first former president to
Speaker 1: face criminal charges. Honestly, good for him, Proud of him,
Speaker 1: proud of him. Man, it's been a while since fun
Speaker 1: breaking news broke. Oh yeah, rock. See, so this means
Speaker 1: that a grand jury has voted to indict him on
Speaker 1: this is okay, So I'm sorry I shouldn't know this,
Speaker 1: but this is because of the hush money is that
Speaker 1: that's why? Yeah, yeah, ye hundred and thirty thousand or something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: his roll back in the in the hush money paid
Speaker 1: Stormy Daniels back in twenty sixteen. Mm, no before, no,
Speaker 1: apologies before that. He paid Stormy as before the twenty
Speaker 1: sixteen election and then lied about God, that's funny. Is
Speaker 1: it so funny? Is there any chance, any chance that
Speaker 1: he will actually suffer any form of consequence from this? Well?
Speaker 1: I mean I think he has to either surrender himself
Speaker 1: or be arrested just because he has been charged criminally. Um,
Speaker 1: so you know that's you could argue a consequence. Although
Speaker 1: there are there is some kind of reporting from people
Speaker 1: around him saying that he wants to be arrested and
Speaker 1: get the cameras on him and stuff, and you know,
Speaker 1: obviously you can. And there is a decently long American
Speaker 1: political tradition of being arrested in ways that benefit you
Speaker 1: as a as a public figure, right, that is a thing.
Speaker 1: And Trump is certainly capable of being that kind of guy.
Speaker 1: I am still saying it's pretty funny. No, it's it's
Speaker 1: hilarious and I love it, and it's the best news
Speaker 1: I've heard in a while. Wow, what a great piece
Speaker 1: of news, Sophie, to come in while we're talking about
Speaker 1: eating meat that you've allowed to rot for unbelievable quantities
Speaker 1: of time. Speaking of rotting meat, yeah, Donald Trump in
Speaker 1: a way, isn't Donald Trump like a Toyo Tacoma filled
Speaker 1: with rancid hot dogs and butter? Yeah? Yes, like that
Speaker 1: did ex president is Yeah, he is a politician that
Speaker 1: we have. I mean, honestly, Rudy Giuliani has been fermenting
Speaker 1: for a lot longer. So high meat advocates report feeling
Speaker 1: euphoria after eating ransom meat. It's called high meat because
Speaker 1: you feel high having eaten it. There's no way to
Speaker 1: disprove a subjective claim like this. It might be due
Speaker 1: to the placebo effect, it might be due to the
Speaker 1: fact that a lot of these people shit themselves have
Speaker 1: to death and them feel hilarious. But also outside of
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe they do. Maybe it does make you
Speaker 1: feel high. Right, I've definitely had like a fucking good
Speaker 1: ass kombucha that made me feel pretty pumped, So I
Speaker 1: get it. Maybe it's I'm not saying it's impossible, but
Speaker 1: the health claims that are generally made by these people
Speaker 1: about high meat are impossible. A. Jonas vander Planets is
Speaker 1: an advocate of the primal diet and one of the
Speaker 1: former leading lights of the high meat subculture. He claimed
Speaker 1: that a primal diet cured him of everything from autism
Speaker 1: to juvenile diabetes. Here's a fun quote from a New
Speaker 1: Yorker article pointing because his name is so fucking cool,
Speaker 1: it is a pretty cool name. Vander Planet says he
Speaker 1: got the high meat and its name from the ESCU
Speaker 1: that he they used. You know, the term that you
Speaker 1: shouldn't use for the Inuit who savor rotten cariboo and seal.
Speaker 1: A regular serving of decade heart or liver should can
Speaker 1: have a tremendous viagra effect on the elderly. Vonder Planets
Speaker 1: told me recently. The first few bites, though, can be
Speaker 1: rough going. I still have some resistance to it, but
Speaker 1: the health benefits. I'm fifty two now. I started this
Speaker 1: when I was forty two, and I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: in my twenties. So that article was published in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1: Shortly after being interviewed for it. In August of twenty thirteen,
Speaker 1: vonder Planets fell off the railing of his balcony and
Speaker 1: Thailand and seriously injured himself. A statement I found from
Speaker 1: a friend on the get Raw Milk website explains what
Speaker 1: happens next. Oh yeah, he broke his back quite severely
Speaker 1: next to the first rib and could not move his legs.
Speaker 1: He took charge of the care of his body, even
Speaker 1: in the hospital, where he had them wrap his torso
Speaker 1: to stabilize the bones. He did have one X ray
Speaker 1: and then would not let them do more. The doctors
Speaker 1: wanted to operate, and he refused. He had them wrap
Speaker 1: him and feed him food, and continued so for two days.
Speaker 1: He was apparently in good spirits, but did experience what
Speaker 1: must have been severe pain, for he did let them
Speaker 1: give him at least two pain shots. This might have
Speaker 1: been necessary for him to stay awaken in control, as
Speaker 1: the body can shut down from pain. There was blood
Speaker 1: in his stomach at some point, for he did regurgitate
Speaker 1: some food with it. On the third day of his
Speaker 1: hospital stay, he sent his girlfriend to a court proceeding
Speaker 1: in Bangkok, about three and a half hours away about
Speaker 1: the land there in Thailand. Over her protests, he insisted
Speaker 1: she go. While she was gone, he went into a
Speaker 1: coma and they put an Ivy in him. When she returned,
Speaker 1: he was very bad. At this point, she emailed our
Speaker 1: time member who called a few of us. The doctors
Speaker 1: say he had a kidney infection and a blood infection.
Speaker 1: They continued to feed him butter and honey as instructed
Speaker 1: and followed his wishes as possible of him oxygen. As
Speaker 1: his breathing decreased and he steadily lost blood pressure. They
Speaker 1: told us that kidneys had stopped functioning and we're not
Speaker 1: producing urine. They wanted to do something, but no one
Speaker 1: had any authority to override his stated wishes. And I'm
Speaker 1: not going to laugh about this guy's situation, but that
Speaker 1: is kind of the consequence of this attitude towards how
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm I'm surprised the honey didn't fix his kidneys.
Speaker 1: That's a part of it that I don't understand. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's shocking. Seems like that should have done the trick. Huh,
Speaker 1: they didn't give it iv that's the thing. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's that's probably at ivy honey, that that would have
Speaker 1: saved him. Most of the high meat videos that you
Speaker 1: were going to find online are of some dude who
Speaker 1: looks like he owns multiple crypto wallets and has intense
Speaker 1: opinions on decentral land. I did find a fun one
Speaker 1: by doctor Anette Bosworth, MD. Now when you google her,
Speaker 1: the first result is and that boss Worth guilty of
Speaker 1: all charges, which immediately let me know we were in
Speaker 1: the right direction here. It turns out she ran for
Speaker 1: Senate and filed a bunch of false documents, which is
Speaker 1: actually a lot better than I'd expected, given that she's
Speaker 1: a doctor, Like I was expecting, like, oh, how many
Speaker 1: people did she get killed? Like, how many bodies is
Speaker 1: this lady stacked? It's the best case. Yeah. So in
Speaker 1: this video, she starts by saying she's on the ketogenic
Speaker 1: diet and recommends rotting meat for ketosis, which again I
Speaker 1: guess kind of makes sense in the same way that
Speaker 1: like getting so drunk you vomit up everything in your
Speaker 1: stomach can technically aid in ketosis. The first thing that
Speaker 1: she notes is she walks you through her journey of
Speaker 1: fermenting raw chicken livers, is that she was quickly forced
Speaker 1: to put the jar outside because it stanks so bad,
Speaker 1: which might have been a sign you have to like
Speaker 1: basically burp the meat like this to let the gases
Speaker 1: out and like expose it to air periodically and stuff.
Speaker 1: There's like there is a process to fermenting the meat
Speaker 1: if you don't want to get super sick. Although it
Speaker 1: doesn't look good, Sophie, can you show him the day
Speaker 1: one of the fermenting chicken lover, just so we're starting
Speaker 1: with the baseline. It's okay, I've seen some bad She's
Speaker 1: like adding some salt to it, a little bit of water.
Speaker 1: So that's day one, Cava. Yeah, let's do it. Ye Okay,
Speaker 1: that doesn't look great. Okay, it look amazing, but it
Speaker 1: does bad. Yeah, just just kind of looks like meat
Speaker 1: that you've got seasoning or something. Here's day four. Oh
Speaker 1: that's rough. Yeah, yeah, that's that's not the way the
Speaker 1: meat that you put in your body should ever look. No. No,
Speaker 1: So she does this for weeks, she doesn't say exactly
Speaker 1: how long until it's a pure black sludge. Look at
Speaker 1: this shit, Cova. That looks like oil, that looks like
Speaker 1: just beer, patrol can. I'm gonna tell you this. There
Speaker 1: are certain things that the body does that um that
Speaker 1: hits you in a primal way to tell you it's yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: don't do this. This is a dark tory sludge deaf.
Speaker 1: I'm being honest. It looks like when you have a
Speaker 1: big upper gi bleed and it gets partially digested as
Speaker 1: it moves through your track, it comes out looking like this.
Speaker 1: We call it melana and that's is That is what
Speaker 1: this looks like. Just the look of it is like
Speaker 1: it hits me on the primal level that like my
Speaker 1: brain stores for like the fear of sharks and the
Speaker 1: aliens from Alien you know, this is what this is
Speaker 1: how this hits me. This is not to be consumed. No, no,
Speaker 1: speaking of aliens, this reminds me of the black ooze
Speaker 1: that comes out of the Aliens and the super Soldiers
Speaker 1: and X files like that is the closest, the closest
Speaker 1: thing to this. Um Sophie, can you can you play
Speaker 1: that segment from the video for us? All this is them,
Speaker 1: This is them eating it and they seem as frightened
Speaker 1: as you should be. It's her and her son. Okay,
Speaker 1: so that oh black? Yeah, well that's what they wear
Speaker 1: in all thetis. I don't know, Oh god, the consistency
Speaker 1: of identical. There's a piece of liver oh still has
Speaker 1: all Okay, so there's put that happen. You can have
Speaker 1: half hack in her half. Oh that's a lot. That's
Speaker 1: a lot. Who is this kid? Yeah? Your son? Oh?
Speaker 1: Why she making her kids do that? You don't fall
Speaker 1: she can't handle it. Supposed to eat things like this.
Speaker 1: That's horrible. This is a jackass video. Can I stop it?
Speaker 1: And I don't like intertance salt online. It's a great
Speaker 1: This is like what Chuck Grassley Seman looks like. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it does look exactly like I imagine that one time.
Speaker 1: I no, Sophie, I am going to take over though,
Speaker 1: because I want to show you guys some stuff. Because
Speaker 1: I've been I've been doing my digging here, you know,
Speaker 1: as as I'm want to do, and I've been following
Speaker 1: a bunch of different Paleo and primal accounts. So here's one.
Speaker 1: This is a Twitter account Aristo Perp breakfast for winners
Speaker 1: raw heavy cream, fruit and honey, leftover raw ground beef
Speaker 1: with raw eggs. It doesn't look good, um, but at
Speaker 1: least it's fresh. And the next response is him saying,
Speaker 1: a friend convinced me to eat raw rotten meat high
Speaker 1: meat yesterday and it actually felt great. Very interesting since
Speaker 1: everyone would think it's crazy and then there's a deleted
Speaker 1: tweet and he posts a picture of the high meat
Speaker 1: that he ate. Oh it's bubble, there's bubbles all over it,
Speaker 1: there's its growth on the meat. It's horrible, so fucking gross. Man,
Speaker 1: that's so fucking I don't understand what they think they're
Speaker 1: getting from this that they could just get from regular meat.
Speaker 1: What about the I mean, could they just not see
Speaker 1: like fermented things that we have made in our nor safe, Like,
Speaker 1: can't they just have like sourkraud? Yeah, it's I think
Speaker 1: a lot of it just comes from these are people
Speaker 1: who are in the kind of fitness and various like
Speaker 1: kind of weird specific elimination diet communities. And the more
Speaker 1: you get into that, the more kind of weird stuff
Speaker 1: that you'll hear and be willing to try. And it's
Speaker 1: one thing if like you're actually doing your research and
Speaker 1: you're interested in, like, oh, I want to know all
Speaker 1: these different ways people used to ferment weat meat or
Speaker 1: do ferment meat and cultures around the world, but a
Speaker 1: lot of folks aren't doing that. I found this one
Speaker 1: Reddit thread where this guy is talking about his high
Speaker 1: meat diet and people are like he's doing like oysters
Speaker 1: like he's letting oysters rot. His goal is to ferment
Speaker 1: shell My goal is to ferment shellfish until it is
Speaker 1: at least one year old. Holy shit, who knows, maybe
Speaker 1: it won't even smell like farts, but to go more tasty.
Speaker 1: Oh god, it's horrible. And there's like, huh, I listen,
Speaker 1: I can't explain to you the nasty things that I've
Speaker 1: seen with my job and the unspeakable things I've seen
Speaker 1: in the human body and and done in the human
Speaker 1: body to help people. And this is troubling to me.
Speaker 1: This is this is hard for me. I can do it.
Speaker 1: I can do it. You're not gonna I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: tap out. I will not tap out from from these videos.
Speaker 1: But I don't enjoy this. Yeah, it's it's there's a
Speaker 1: lot that's like fucked up about it. At one point,
Speaker 1: someone is like, hey, I'm looking at your I'm looking
Speaker 1: at like what you're doing here, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: I live in Inuit territory and it's never as hot
Speaker 1: as it is where you live here. Like whatever they're
Speaker 1: doing to ferment their mate, it's like sixty at the
Speaker 1: hottest part of the year, So you may not be
Speaker 1: doing it right, and he's like, na, man, the induoud
Speaker 1: have been doing it forever. He just like doesn't listen
Speaker 1: at all. There's another person who responds because they're talking
Speaker 1: about like, well, sam Lanella and batulenum and any coli
Speaker 1: are are faculative anaerobes, so they can't grow when oxygen
Speaker 1: rich air is present, which is why you expose stuff
Speaker 1: to oxygen. And someone responds biochemistry researcher here, this is
Speaker 1: absolutely incorrect. Samonella and E. Coli are faculative anaerobes, but
Speaker 1: this means they grow best with oxygen yet can adapt
Speaker 1: to anaerobic environments. Like there's all of these like and
Speaker 1: hopefully everyone is okay. Hopefully the people doing this don't
Speaker 1: get themselves a year ago, right, Yeah, anything, I didn'tee
Speaker 1: any follow up on that. Yeah, no way to know. Um,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. Don't do this. Don't do this
Speaker 1: is kind of I think we're both Cava and I
Speaker 1: are going to come to at the end of this episode.
Speaker 1: We don't agree on much, my friend, you and I, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but this is one thing I think we can both
Speaker 1: agree on. Yeah, I don't know about this. You know.
Speaker 1: The funny thing about all these people this is so
Speaker 1: I've been spending a lot of time sort of like
Speaker 1: diving into medical grifters recently and doing stuff on people
Speaker 1: like doctor bos Here. It's it's always the same concept.
Speaker 1: It's always they start with this very basic premise of
Speaker 1: like health is a choice. I mean, they don't take
Speaker 1: into account of any of the socioeconomic stuff, any of
Speaker 1: the genetic stuff. It's a choice, kind of implying that
Speaker 1: you know, if you're sick, it's your fault. And then
Speaker 1: on top of that, there's like they'll polarize foods. They'll
Speaker 1: be like, here are foods that you should eat, Here
Speaker 1: are foods that you should not eat. Here foods that
Speaker 1: are good and food they almost make it like a
Speaker 1: moral thing, like they're good and there's evil foods. And
Speaker 1: they do that. And then the third thing they do
Speaker 1: is then they have their supplement that they sell, or
Speaker 1: their scam of their book or their YouTube channel that
Speaker 1: you have to subscribe to. That's how they they monetize it.
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, it's always the same thing,
Speaker 1: this polarizing of food and romanticize the past and romanticizing things.
Speaker 1: It's whenever you see the term ancient, it's always it
Speaker 1: is ninety nine at the time, a scam of some sort. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like you wouldn't Ancient people sometimes were able to
Speaker 1: take care of they're injured and sick loved ones, and
Speaker 1: sometimes they beat them to death with rocks or left
Speaker 1: them to starve because times were tough and that was
Speaker 1: the best thing that they could do. Right, sh It's tough.
Speaker 1: You know, shit was tougher in the past, and people
Speaker 1: had to make hard decisions. You wouldn't advocate that because
Speaker 1: those hard decisions were a necessary part of the survival
Speaker 1: of our ancestors, that they are good things to do
Speaker 1: in the modern era, right, because for example, we have
Speaker 1: like splints now, Like you don't have to you don't
Speaker 1: need to if it's a cold winter and there's not
Speaker 1: enough food. You don't need to club grandpa to death
Speaker 1: because he breaks his ankle. You know, that's not that
Speaker 1: that's what everyone did. People went to great lengths to
Speaker 1: try to save their ones, but hard choices had to
Speaker 1: be made, and we don't have to make choices like
Speaker 1: that anymore because we have like stoves and heaters and
Speaker 1: people who can splint wounds. You know. You know, the
Speaker 1: whole thing about this doctor and these people eating the
Speaker 1: fermented foods that they you know, and doing this again.
Speaker 1: The thing about it is, you know, ten years ago,
Speaker 1: you would have shown me this video and I would
Speaker 1: have been like, all right, whatever, they're doing it to themselves,
Speaker 1: let them make themselves sick. Let her do that to
Speaker 1: her and her son. We I mean, who cares. If
Speaker 1: it doesn't kill them, then you know whatever. But you know,
Speaker 1: the truth of it is, like all this pseudoscience stuff
Speaker 1: now more than ever after the last four or five years,
Speaker 1: I realize that it's all contributing to our society getting
Speaker 1: much worse. It's all all this stuff is incrementally making
Speaker 1: people trust real science less. It's making people not clear
Speaker 1: about what is real and not real when it comes
Speaker 1: to things like say the vaccine, and people have a
Speaker 1: harder time making the right decision when it comes to
Speaker 1: things that are really important. So and yes, also the
Speaker 1: our dangerous too to do these things. There's parasites, there's
Speaker 1: bacteria and all this stuff. But this stuff all makes
Speaker 1: me so mad. Now. It didn't used to bother me
Speaker 1: that much. I used to just laugh about it, and
Speaker 1: now it makes me just actually kind of angry. Whenever
Speaker 1: I see this nonsense. I mean, the liver king is
Speaker 1: a weird one too, like his I'm not entirely sure
Speaker 1: what his thinking is, but like it's almost like implied,
Speaker 1: like you eat the balls of a bull, you get
Speaker 1: the strength of the bull. You eat the liver, it'll
Speaker 1: make your liver stronger. You eat the brain, you'll make
Speaker 1: your brain. It's like this weird homeopathy like cures like
Speaker 1: sort of thing which has been disproven. And again it's
Speaker 1: just it's perpetuating this this faulty science at best, I'll
Speaker 1: call it faulty science. But it's all like a grift,
Speaker 1: and it all contributes to basically the collapse of our society.
Speaker 1: It makes me upset. And I think what you're saying, Kava,
Speaker 1: is that we need about sixty volunteers that because we're scientists,
Speaker 1: we're going to do a double blind. So thirty of
Speaker 1: you fill a tacoma bed with a metal top with
Speaker 1: hot dogs and butter or cream and just let it
Speaker 1: sit for three months and then eat all of it.
Speaker 1: And then the other thirty of you, around October just
Speaker 1: buy a fresh tacoma full of hot dogs and butter
Speaker 1: and eat it all fresh, and then we'll see who's healthiest,
Speaker 1: and that'll let us know if this is a good idea.
Speaker 1: It's randomized, it's I don't know if we could double
Speaker 1: blind it because we might have to figure out, like
Speaker 1: how to hide the smell and the stench. But I
Speaker 1: feel like we have a trial here. I feel like
Speaker 1: there is something we could do. There's something we could
Speaker 1: work with here. Now, you don't hide the stench. You
Speaker 1: just get like a decal that says work truck and
Speaker 1: stick it on the side. People won't ask questions. Nobody,
Speaker 1: nobody's going to ask questions. There's no good smelling Tacomas. Well, everyone, uh,
Speaker 1: sign up to volunteer for our our Tacoma High hot
Speaker 1: Dog challenge to see if it's good to eat hot
Speaker 1: dogs that have been left in the back of a
Speaker 1: Tacoma Um, well, we'll do a science altogether. Endorsed by
Speaker 1: doctor Cava Jota. Yeah, sure, sure. It's the end of
Speaker 1: the world anyway, so why not might as well m
Speaker 1: Maybe this will help us survive the end of the world.
Speaker 1: Maybe this is what makes us not need water, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: enough Tacoma hot dogs and we could make it possible
Speaker 1: for people to survive in Arizona again. Yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: the terrigen mist. You'll survive it and be stronger or
Speaker 1: you won't. Yeah, yeah, one way or the other. Look,
Speaker 1: there's only one way to find out. Do you have
Speaker 1: any place that people can find you online? M on
Speaker 1: the Twitter find me at the House of Pod Twitter
Speaker 1: and listen to my podcast where we talk about things
Speaker 1: like medical drifters and we'll talk about other medical fun
Speaker 1: stuff and then sometimes not such medical fun stuff. It's
Speaker 1: called the House of Pods podcast. Listen to it where
Speaker 1: you listen to the podcasts. That's it. That is it. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you, Kaba, thank you for being there with me
Speaker 1: and the live show, going into the field with me
Speaker 1: to fight the liver King and all of these other
Speaker 1: silly people. There for you, buddy, Yeah yeah, Well, and
Speaker 1: I'm there for you all next week, but not anymore
Speaker 1: this week because we're done for the week. Goodbye bye.
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool
Speaker 1: zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.