Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.
Speaker 1: There's Charles w Chuck Bryant and Jerry Rowlands lurking um
Speaker 1: in the background. And this is Stuff you should know.
Speaker 1: Smarty pants a dish m hm hmm. We're doing MENSA right,
Speaker 1: Oh god, no I thought you were. I thought we
Speaker 1: were doing a cage free re dux. Yes, this is
Speaker 1: about MENTA. That's what I have pulled up to Chuck.
Speaker 1: So this works out just fine. All right, let's do it.
Speaker 1: So um. Dave Russe helped us out with this one.
Speaker 1: And um he mentioned a bit of news that if
Speaker 1: you looked up MENSA recently, would be hard to miss.
Speaker 1: But I believe it was their youngest member ever was
Speaker 1: inducted into MENSA. Mensa by the way, UM, for those
Speaker 1: of you who don't know, IS bills itself as the
Speaker 1: High i Q Society. It stands for it doesn't stand
Speaker 1: for anything, so, which is super smart if you stop
Speaker 1: and think about it. Yeah, it feels like it should
Speaker 1: be an acronym, but it's not. Definitely. I'm with you,
Speaker 1: but it will just go ahead and say it means
Speaker 1: table in Latin yeah, and in Spanish slang it's a
Speaker 1: female goofball or dumb person. Strangely enough, the irony Is
Speaker 1: had tip to Dave Rus for putting that one out.
Speaker 1: So as I was saying, it's a high i Q society,
Speaker 1: it's society for smarty pants, as you put it, and
Speaker 1: they inducted they inducted their youngest member recently, who was
Speaker 1: two years old. Two years old, sure, and they don't
Speaker 1: so they don't discriminate by age, which is great bully
Speaker 1: for them. And I believe on their website they say
Speaker 1: they're their membership ranges and ages two to a hundred
Speaker 1: and two. I knew they were going to say that,
Speaker 1: and I wonder if there's like a hundred and four
Speaker 1: year old MENSUM members, Like what the F Yeah, I
Speaker 1: just I didn't fit in with the cool uh whatever.
Speaker 1: It's not even a rhyme, you know what I mean. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've always felt really bad about UM, the people in Uh.
Speaker 1: Why what is that Christmas song? Kids from one too?
Speaker 1: It's like year olds still appreciate Christmas. You know. I
Speaker 1: cut that whole group out, And then you stop and
Speaker 1: think this is written in the mid century and there
Speaker 1: was like almost no one living to ninety two because
Speaker 1: they were all having coroneries from cigars and scotches and
Speaker 1: steaks all at once. It's kind of a random age,
Speaker 1: though it is, but it rhyme, which is what I
Speaker 1: think means it did here too. But regardless of this
Speaker 1: two year old cache quest, um, just a queues a
Speaker 1: button has an i Q of on, which means she's
Speaker 1: got it all basically, and with an i q of
Speaker 1: ont six, that puts her well above the minimum wronment
Speaker 1: to be accepted in a MENSA, which is usually about
Speaker 1: an i q of about one thirty two. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: you may have seen that in the news if you
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, David is right to point out
Speaker 1: if you mentioned mensa, the first thing most people will say,
Speaker 1: and I don't know how this got so into the
Speaker 1: public consciousness, but they will generally say, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: Gina Davis is a MENSA member. Uh, she must have
Speaker 1: mentioned in an interview or something. But it's been a
Speaker 1: long time, because I've heard that for a long long
Speaker 1: time as like the sort of go to fact for MENSA. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I also heard another thing about Gene Davis. She used
Speaker 1: to bake cookies and bring them to like meetings. She was. Well.
Speaker 1: I heard another thing about Gina Davis because our our
Speaker 1: friend and friend of the show, Jesse Thorne, interviewed her
Speaker 1: on his great interview show Bulls Eye, and he said
Speaker 1: that Gina Davis is the best person and he said
Speaker 1: she is exactly what you hope she would be. And
Speaker 1: everyone just felt like it was their cool aunt. Oh
Speaker 1: that's pretty Everyone in the office like she was just
Speaker 1: the nicest person and it she sounds like the kind
Speaker 1: of person who would bake cookies in her MENSA style. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Jesse Thorn's hearing this and it's like she didn't
Speaker 1: bring cookies to Army. Maybe she did so, um so Yes.
Speaker 1: Gina Davis is world renowned as the uh, the most
Speaker 1: famous member of MENSA, even though plenty of famous people
Speaker 1: have been members of MENSA over the years. Bucky Fuller,
Speaker 1: Arthur C. Clark was a vice president of MENSA International
Speaker 1: for a while. Sharon Stone famously told people in the
Speaker 1: nineties that she was in MENSA, and she finally called
Speaker 1: out by MENSA saying like, no, you're not in MENSA. Yes,
Speaker 1: she did lie, apparently for a good decade, until somebody
Speaker 1: finally said something about it. And then James Woods is
Speaker 1: often confused as a member of MENSA, but I don't
Speaker 1: believe he actually is. Who else the guy who created
Speaker 1: the anti virus software McAfee John McAfee. Uh. And yeah,
Speaker 1: there's there's a handful of people. And then, as we'll
Speaker 1: talk about later, there are a lot of journalists who say, well,
Speaker 1: I qualified to be in MENSA, but I didn't want
Speaker 1: to be involved. Yeah, because that's the one thing about
Speaker 1: men says. A lot of the popular press that's done
Speaker 1: on that group takes easy pot shots at them because
Speaker 1: they are a group of of their a high i
Speaker 1: Q group and they're by definition very smart people, but
Speaker 1: also enjoying a club like that it bestows a bit
Speaker 1: of an air of superiority onto you. So there's a
Speaker 1: there's a certain undercurrent of that, and so people who
Speaker 1: write about them, recover them, usually take pot shots at
Speaker 1: them and generally lump them all into one big group.
Speaker 1: But that's not necessarily fair to say, because they are
Speaker 1: a very collection of people. For sure, there are weird
Speaker 1: undercurrents that are distasteful here there um, but overall, um,
Speaker 1: they seem to be okay from what I can tell. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they are all kinds of mensines, which is what
Speaker 1: they're called, uh, from all kinds of backgrounds in socio
Speaker 1: economic strata. I guess we could break down the percentages
Speaker 1: here if you want to get specific, U it is
Speaker 1: sixty six percent uh male, this is from their stats,
Speaker 1: thirty four percent female, UH, two percent to have a
Speaker 1: four year degree or more, sixty three graduate degree or more,
Speaker 1: thirty percent boomers, Gen X thirteen millennial, and then the rest.
Speaker 1: But it's it's not a big group though. UM like
Speaker 1: their total membership is a little less than a hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty thousand worldwide, with about fifty thousand of those
Speaker 1: being in the States, UH and nineteen thousand mean in
Speaker 1: the UK where it was founded. But it's uh a
Speaker 1: lot more people could be in MENSA that aren't in MENSA.
Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Dave did them ath as if
Speaker 1: to show off that he could be a member of
Speaker 1: MENSA if he wanted to. But what MENSA membership means
Speaker 1: is that you have tested in aptitude for intelligence within
Speaker 1: the top two of people. So in the United States,
Speaker 1: say there's three million, just to make it easy, but
Speaker 1: I think there's much more than that. Now, UM that
Speaker 1: would be six million people who would who would qualify
Speaker 1: as members of MENSA, and yet, like you said, there's
Speaker 1: only about fifty thousand in there. Yeah, I mean, and
Speaker 1: I get if some people think that's a weird thing
Speaker 1: to say, because you still have to take these tests,
Speaker 1: you have to be good at test taking. But if
Speaker 1: you just go by numbers of the top two percent
Speaker 1: of intelligence, then sure, yes, but it also reveals something
Speaker 1: that it's not for everybody, Like, just by virtue of
Speaker 1: being smart or testing really well on an intelligence test,
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean you automatically want to be a member
Speaker 1: of a group that that shares that in calm, and
Speaker 1: that's an extra there's a very slight tranche of people
Speaker 1: who qualify or who would qualify, who actually do want
Speaker 1: to join MENSA. But the ones who do join MENSA
Speaker 1: seem to tremendously enjoy and feel very accepted and happy there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And that's also in itself a pot shot that journalists
Speaker 1: have taken commonly, which is, these are people who who
Speaker 1: are smart enough to be in MENSA and want to
Speaker 1: be able to tell everybody that they're in MENSA. And
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure there is some of that to
Speaker 1: some degree. There are people that like to to flaunt
Speaker 1: their Harvard degree or you know, drop the H bomb
Speaker 1: as they say, or or their Ivy League education or
Speaker 1: their MENSA membership. But I'm sure there are out of
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty thousand people, there are lots of
Speaker 1: Gina davis Is that probably are just like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm in that, but it's really no big deal. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The worst of the worst are people who are in MENSA,
Speaker 1: went to Harvard, are on keto and are in the
Speaker 1: cross fit Oh God, make it stop, and who recently
Speaker 1: quit social media. Can you imagine? Ye? Should we talk
Speaker 1: about the history party of one? That's a good joke.
Speaker 1: Uh So MENSA got its start in six like I
Speaker 1: mentioned in the UK, and it sort of happened by chance.
Speaker 1: On a train there was a post grad student from
Speaker 1: Oxford named a Lancelot where who was coming home for Christmas.
Speaker 1: Break shared a cabin with a fifty year old named
Speaker 1: Roland Barrel or Beryl, and Burrill was like, oh, you
Speaker 1: got to Oxford. You know what. I wanted to go
Speaker 1: to Oxford. I couldn't get into Oxford and it sort
Speaker 1: of haunted me. And uh, he said, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: into all kinds of stuff. Though I'm a smart guy.
Speaker 1: I'm into chronology and astrology, and where said, that's that's
Speaker 1: very interesting. I'm into testing intelligence, the younger Lancelot said.
Speaker 1: He said, I was in the army in Britain and
Speaker 1: we did aptitude testing on troops. I became fascinated by it.
Speaker 1: When I went to Oxford, I was surrounded by smart people,
Speaker 1: and I thought it would be really cool to form
Speaker 1: a high i Q society within a school of people
Speaker 1: that were already super intelligent. And Burrell said, very interesting, huh.
Speaker 1: I envisioned him clapping his hands together and saying splendid. Okay,
Speaker 1: because you left something out about him. One of the
Speaker 1: things that usually is touted about, um what what Beryl
Speaker 1: was into a barrel um is that he had a
Speaker 1: plan to make all men were very brightly colored clothing.
Speaker 1: I could not, for the life of me find out
Speaker 1: why or what the point was, but it's yeah, so
Speaker 1: so so. Barrell said, you know, this is a very
Speaker 1: great idea. I think we should we should explore this further.
Speaker 1: And young Lancelot, where post doc UH student at Oxford, said, well,
Speaker 1: you know, older gentlemen who have only just met on
Speaker 1: this train. Why don't you come stay with me at
Speaker 1: Oxford when I get back to school after Christmas break?
Speaker 1: And Burrell took him up on it, and um, it
Speaker 1: was there that they hatched the plan for MENSA after
Speaker 1: Burrell was given an intelligence test UM by Lancelot Where
Speaker 1: and When when Lancelot Where calculated the results and said,
Speaker 1: Mr Burrell, you are within the top one percent of
Speaker 1: all people in terms of intelligence. It's widely reported that
Speaker 1: Roland Burrell cried because he was so happy and touched
Speaker 1: by that right and had funding uh to start this
Speaker 1: thing up, which was key. And so how it really
Speaker 1: went down was he told them that he cried and said,
Speaker 1: oh can I see the results? And Where quickly watted
Speaker 1: them up and said that's not important. Take my word
Speaker 1: for it. You're in the top one percent. Make the
Speaker 1: checkout dumoi and Burrell said splendid. Uh. But they needed
Speaker 1: a name, and like you said, uh, they landed on MENSA.
Speaker 1: I think initially they wanted to call it UM Capital
Speaker 1: mm E n S, which was short for the Mental
Speaker 1: Health Society. That's just not even close. No, it's pretty
Speaker 1: where yeah, where's the h H? And also there was
Speaker 1: I think a a gentleman's magazine called Men's. Uh that's
Speaker 1: in scare quotes. And so they said, well, how about mensa, which,
Speaker 1: like you pointed out, is Latin for table, because I
Speaker 1: just envisioned its like all these smarty pants sitting around
Speaker 1: a round table talking about wonderful things. And they said,
Speaker 1: I guess they said, shut, that's as good a name
Speaker 1: as any. So originally, if you've ever seen that Simpson's
Speaker 1: episode where Lisa joins Mensa, UM, I don't remember that one.
Speaker 1: It's it's a pretty good one. Uh. It's a cautionary
Speaker 1: tale about um mensa, letting an intelligent elite determine the
Speaker 1: fate of everybody else at the while just completely discounting
Speaker 1: anyone who's not an intelligent elite, right, Um, And like
Speaker 1: Comic Book Guy and Dr Hibbert and a couple of
Speaker 1: other character Sideshow mel, they're all in. They're all in
Speaker 1: Mensa with her, and they basically take over the town
Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, and it just goes awry, it
Speaker 1: ends up going terribly awry. Um, But that's kind of
Speaker 1: originally what Lancelot where and Roland Barrel were, Um, we're
Speaker 1: envisioning when they founded mensa, this group of the most
Speaker 1: intelligent uh Britishers Britton's say, yeah, um in in the UK,
Speaker 1: who would kind of be assembled to be a group
Speaker 1: that the government or scientific projects or whoever wanted to
Speaker 1: tap their intelligence could tap their intelligence. That was the
Speaker 1: original idea for mensah. And by the way, the keen
Speaker 1: eared listener would have just picked up on my one
Speaker 1: word impression of Juliu Sibbert. What did you say. I'm
Speaker 1: not going to repeat. It's got You've gotta be a
Speaker 1: keen listener man. So, uh, if you heard it, then
Speaker 1: hats off to you. You're not allowed to rewind if
Speaker 1: you're listening at home. Can I rewind? You can't rewind.
Speaker 1: Nobody can rewind. You had to have heard it live,
Speaker 1: okay okay? Uh And and like two people will have
Speaker 1: gotten it and one person and the rest of us
Speaker 1: are all mad. Now, Oh that's okay, I'll do it
Speaker 1: for you off Mike. Uh So, yeah, they wanted they
Speaker 1: wanted to kind of from the sounds of it, almost
Speaker 1: like a Rolodex of Smarties because they wanted to not
Speaker 1: just have that list, but they even said in their
Speaker 1: charter they wanted it in the hands of anthropologists and
Speaker 1: ministers of the crown, like they wanted people that mattered
Speaker 1: to have this list on hand, like who do who?
Speaker 1: You know? I need a smart person, let me look
Speaker 1: at my mental list. Uh. And their goal, I think,
Speaker 1: did you mention was six d people with their contact
Speaker 1: information so they could get in touch. And it took
Speaker 1: them thirteen years uh to get to that. That benchmark
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty nine is when they finally got it.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until some American ex pats joined in
Speaker 1: England got written up by the Village Voice in the
Speaker 1: New York Times that it kind of really started to
Speaker 1: gain a little bit more traction in the States and
Speaker 1: then around the world. So it's it's crazy that it
Speaker 1: took him thirteen years to what because right after that,
Speaker 1: and I guess it was because of the interest among Americans,
Speaker 1: UM that initially started out, like you said, with ex pats,
Speaker 1: and then after a couple of articles captured everybody else's attention,
Speaker 1: UM that it just took off. Like if you saw
Speaker 1: a chart, it would look like that hockey stick of
Speaker 1: um of global warming. I think it is. Remember that
Speaker 1: from the nineties the hockey stick crash. So that's pretty
Speaker 1: much what mentsa UM membership would look like it from
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty UM. And it was largely thanks to a
Speaker 1: few people UM over the years. But one of the
Speaker 1: first people who really kind of helped meant to take
Speaker 1: off as an organization was a guy named John Cardella,
Speaker 1: who was an American pr guy UM, and he took
Speaker 1: this group that was almost had like fraternity like origins,
Speaker 1: like apparently Roland Barrel UM had a uh like part
Speaker 1: of the early rules was to have a woman seated
Speaker 1: on a throne wearing a leopard skin and nothing else
Speaker 1: UM as part of the meetings. Like it was they
Speaker 1: had that kind of vibe to it. And when Cadella sure,
Speaker 1: you know, and it kind of Anton LaVey vibe UM.
Speaker 1: And so when John Cadella UM came in the picture,
Speaker 1: he like kind of dusted off all that stuff and
Speaker 1: UM turned it into a legitimate type of organization, definitely
Speaker 1: legitimized it, if not made it legitimate, right, So in
Speaker 1: fifty nine they had six hundred. By sixty seven, a
Speaker 1: mere eight years later, uh, it had swelled up to
Speaker 1: twelve thousand and change. And uh, you know that he
Speaker 1: would get people on TV. It was that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Like he was a genuine pr guy. So all of
Speaker 1: a sudden there were MENSA members, some very charismatic that
Speaker 1: we're being sort of bandied about in articles and on television.
Speaker 1: Well there's one in particular. He was the chairman, I believe,
Speaker 1: and he was the guy who I think would go
Speaker 1: on like Johnny Carson and stuff like that. That's right,
Speaker 1: that's what I was talking about, Victor. Uh. True. M
Speaker 1: Sarah Briakoff, I think so I've seen it, seen it
Speaker 1: compared to or Cerebral. So I think it's Cerebriakoff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's an extra vowel in there that's coming up the works.
Speaker 1: That's right up my alley. Though. Should we take a break, Sure,
Speaker 1: all right, let's take a break. We'll be right back,
Speaker 1: all right. So member member MENSA is gaining members very steadily. Uh,
Speaker 1: it is growing throughout the decades. You could, if you
Speaker 1: wanted to be a member, you could mail them some money.
Speaker 1: And I know a cynical view would be like they're
Speaker 1: just like trying to make money, but it's an organization
Speaker 1: that that you know, that needs money to run. Um.
Speaker 1: I doubt if they like or have some super rich
Speaker 1: fund that they dig into but is when you look
Speaker 1: at the things they do, it's really nothing like super lavish.
Speaker 1: They don't have like yacht parties and stuff from what
Speaker 1: I can tell. No, but I've never run across any
Speaker 1: kind of intimation that it's a money making scheme of
Speaker 1: any sort. Yeah, I just mean for the listener, like,
Speaker 1: uh oh yeah, mail them a check and they'll send
Speaker 1: you a test. But that's how it works. You mail
Speaker 1: them a check back in the day, they would send
Speaker 1: you a test um. They I think it was Cerebrakov
Speaker 1: who said, you know what we can also do is
Speaker 1: we can have these supervised like actually someone would come
Speaker 1: and administer a test. Uh, it would be a little
Speaker 1: more official, might cost a little more money. We need
Speaker 1: a constitution, so they said, not a bad idea, And
Speaker 1: if you read their constitution, the three tenants are really
Speaker 1: pretty great. It's identifying foster human intelligence for the benefit
Speaker 1: of humanity, no problem there, encourage research in the nature,
Speaker 1: characteristics and uses of intelligence, check and provide us stimulating
Speaker 1: in a alectual and social environment for members. Sounds good
Speaker 1: to me, yeah, of course. And then number four forced
Speaker 1: breeding of people according to intelligence. Yeah, no problems, right, No,
Speaker 1: they didn't do that. So UM, there was kind of
Speaker 1: a heyday. It seems like, uh in the sixties, I think,
Speaker 1: And apparently there's a lot of attention at first between
Speaker 1: UK and US and UM. Within just a couple of
Speaker 1: years of coming on the scene, the Kansas City chapter
Speaker 1: stage of revolt against the UK headquarters six shooters, and
Speaker 1: basically I saw that they launched like a poison pen
Speaker 1: attack where they were right. Yes, they would write the
Speaker 1: employers of these MENSA like higher ups and like and
Speaker 1: basically accused them of terrible stuff and and finally got
Speaker 1: the American chapters to basically be independent and equal UM,
Speaker 1: and that formed Mensa International. But the sixties were kind
Speaker 1: of a heyday. The seven seemed to be hohum. And
Speaker 1: then apparently the eighties took off because UM, from what
Speaker 1: I saw in this article, and I can't remember what
Speaker 1: what maybe the independent from it said that the kind
Speaker 1: of the through line of an organization like MENSA, the
Speaker 1: idea that some people are just naturally more intelligent than others,
Speaker 1: really jibes with that Reagan, Thatcher era of mentality of UM,
Speaker 1: of getting away from the idea that you know you
Speaker 1: can achieve if you're given the right kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: It's like, no, you got this problem over here, We
Speaker 1: got that you know, we're over here. We're not gonna
Speaker 1: help you, because why would we, Because you're you're beyond help,
Speaker 1: You're not naturally gifted. That kind of conservative uh thread
Speaker 1: that was really present in the in the Thatcher Reagan
Speaker 1: eighties made MENSA a lot more respectable or a lot
Speaker 1: more appealing during that time from what I saw. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think in England it peaked in the nineties
Speaker 1: or specifically with about thirty thousand there and now as
Speaker 1: fewer than twenty thou So, uh, Dave said, you know,
Speaker 1: some of this might be, you know, the MENSA image
Speaker 1: problem might be to blame. But you know, it's just
Speaker 1: one of those organizations. It's gonna have its ups and
Speaker 1: downs over the years. I'm sure as far as membership numbers,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, So, um, how do you get in, Chuck,
Speaker 1: If you want to get into MENSA? What do you do?
Speaker 1: Hot shot? You bake some cookies for Gina Davis? Sure
Speaker 1: that doesn't hurt Uh, No, you it's really easy, actually, uh.
Speaker 1: In in practice, you just need to score within the
Speaker 1: top two percent of an intelligence test and that it's
Speaker 1: it's not like you can just take any intelligence test.
Speaker 1: It depends on UM. Well, I mean, now there's an
Speaker 1: official MENSA test that that you take, but uh, there
Speaker 1: are also other i Q tests that can qualify, the
Speaker 1: Stanford Benet test, the Catel three B test, and I
Speaker 1: think we should hold off on sort of the the
Speaker 1: big reveal, the big twist here for another few minutes. Okay, Uh,
Speaker 1: we'll keep that in her hip pocket. Uh. An official
Speaker 1: from your country will administer uh their tests to you,
Speaker 1: and uh it takes a couple hours if you take
Speaker 1: the official ment to test. These are those If you've
Speaker 1: ever taken an i Q test, you know it's not
Speaker 1: like the s A T. It's it's a logic and
Speaker 1: reasoning test generally. Uh. And the questions are things like, uh,
Speaker 1: you're you're doing a lot of sequencing, like look at
Speaker 1: these shapes, which shape would come next? Which number would
Speaker 1: come next? Uh. It does test verbal intelligence and vocabulary
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Math is a part of it,
Speaker 1: but it's times, which is one of the big sort
Speaker 1: of not caveats. But the big thing you have to
Speaker 1: remember is you have to be a good test taker
Speaker 1: and you have to be able to take tests under
Speaker 1: pressure time to pressure, right, like that one scene in
Speaker 1: Swordfish with poor poor Hugh Jackman. I didn't see that.
Speaker 1: You didn't miss much at all. Ok So, um, that's
Speaker 1: the standard mentor test menta admissions test. Um. And some
Speaker 1: people say, well, hold on, if you're a non native
Speaker 1: English speaker and you're in America, that that's those tests
Speaker 1: are have been shown to be biased towards certain people,
Speaker 1: usually based on language. So Mental also administers what's called
Speaker 1: the culture fair test, and it's nothing like yeah, it's
Speaker 1: nothing but shapes and symbols and um, you know what
Speaker 1: what comes next kind of thing. And I took a
Speaker 1: test like that. It was I think Norwegian in origin,
Speaker 1: and I got to like question six before I'm like,
Speaker 1: I have no idea whatsoever what shape would come next.
Speaker 1: The first few I was like, okay, I can do this,
Speaker 1: and then it just got so increasingly difficult that I
Speaker 1: just I just stop. I just had no idea what
Speaker 1: was next? This recently? You did that for this? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was yesterday, um, and I I a little a
Speaker 1: little blood coming out of my ear. I felt really disoriented,
Speaker 1: and I woke up in a pool of my own urine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can also take a thirty minute online like MENSA
Speaker 1: workout thing for free, which is sort of just an
Speaker 1: amuse bush uh to see if you might want the
Speaker 1: full deal, the gift of the Chef. I thought about
Speaker 1: taking one of these for this episode, and then I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't want to. I don't care. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's that's I think. Another thing too,
Speaker 1: is like this. This, like taking a test like that
Speaker 1: is probably up your alley if you're interested in becoming
Speaker 1: a MENSA member. Yeah. I don't think I'm great at
Speaker 1: tests like that, And maybe I don't want to know
Speaker 1: that I am or am not. Maybe I'm just happy
Speaker 1: with my life. Yeah, I'm happy doing my New York
Speaker 1: Times cross word and spelling be and playing word all
Speaker 1: and that's good enough for me. I think that's fine.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like you're proving anything to anybody
Speaker 1: by becoming a member of MENSA, except maybe to yourself.
Speaker 1: I tried. I mean, honestly, I was like, oh, that'll
Speaker 1: be fine. I'll take it, and I'll embarrass myself to
Speaker 1: our listeners by saying what I scored. And every time
Speaker 1: I went to do it, I don't want to do this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I didn't do it. So they there's a there's
Speaker 1: a whole hook to that whole thing. A catch, I
Speaker 1: guess is what you'd say. If you use the right word. Um.
Speaker 1: You can take those tests, the Standard test or the
Speaker 1: culture Fair Test once one time each and if you
Speaker 1: don't pass, meaning you don't score in the top two
Speaker 1: percent of the average American UM, you can never take
Speaker 1: those tests again, like you just have been denied admission
Speaker 1: into MENSA through those tests. There is another way, there's
Speaker 1: a back door man way. That is what I think
Speaker 1: they call all it at MENSA. Yeah, this was the
Speaker 1: thing we were keeping in our hip pocket. Uh, you
Speaker 1: don't have to take this test because two thirds two
Speaker 1: thirds of all members did not take that official MENSA test.
Speaker 1: They you can also pay a fee. Not just people
Speaker 1: like what pay like a thousand bucks to get in, No,
Speaker 1: pay a regular forty dollar fee, and they can accept
Speaker 1: results from about a hundred and fifty different standardized intelligence
Speaker 1: tests that they evaluate based on you know, the general population.
Speaker 1: So they'll basically just say, give us your test that
Speaker 1: you took, we'll see if you're in the top two percent,
Speaker 1: and you can get in that way. That's a big
Speaker 1: back door. It sure is a big backdoor, chuck um
Speaker 1: so Uh. One of the ways that you could get
Speaker 1: in is if you qualified for your high school's gifted program,
Speaker 1: or if you're super smarty pants, your middle school or
Speaker 1: even elementary school's gifted program. They gave you a bunch
Speaker 1: of different telligence tests back then. If your school didn't
Speaker 1: burn down in a fire, it's possible they still have
Speaker 1: those records and you could have them via a sealed
Speaker 1: envelope from the school, uh sent to send your your
Speaker 1: test results. SEMENSA mental will check it out and be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're in, buddy, you're in now. Question about these gifted programs?
Speaker 1: Does that mean like the AP classes? All right, here's
Speaker 1: the deal. My friend, I was in AP English and
Speaker 1: AP History and then when I saw and we'll go
Speaker 1: ahead and mention this. You can submit your S A
Speaker 1: T and a C T scores, your g R and
Speaker 1: your ls ats uh and if between eighty I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: between seventy four and ninety four, if you scored A twelve,
Speaker 1: if ye're higher on the S A T, you would
Speaker 1: get into MENSA even retroactively. Yeah, and buddy, I scored
Speaker 1: in eleven seventy. I wasn't as far off as I thought. Oh,
Speaker 1: that's great, you're not in mensa. But that's great. No,
Speaker 1: but if I would have known that back then, I
Speaker 1: might have tried a couple of more times. Once I
Speaker 1: took it once too, I got a ten ninety. That's
Speaker 1: good too. No, it's it's average. No, no, no, to ninety.
Speaker 1: I think. I think anything that breaks a thousand is
Speaker 1: on the higher side, not high high, but it's higher
Speaker 1: than average, right, I don't. I don't think so. I
Speaker 1: think that's pretty comfortably right in the middle of average.
Speaker 1: They don't even score it that way anymore though, right, No,
Speaker 1: they don't. So up to after ninety four, they won't
Speaker 1: accept your s a T scores anymore because the s
Speaker 1: a T switched from testing general intelligence to testing what
Speaker 1: you've learned in school thus far. So it was like
Speaker 1: it went from being like an i Q test basically
Speaker 1: to a um an exit exam for for high school.
Speaker 1: I think that they changed it would do worse on
Speaker 1: that kind of tests, actually would have done worse. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I took the intelligence one. I don't remember
Speaker 1: because it's I definitely took it in well, now, I
Speaker 1: probably were taking a ninety or I probably would have
Speaker 1: taken it in like ninety three. I think you would
Speaker 1: have taken it your sophomore or junior year, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's probably that I took it. So I took
Speaker 1: the the original intelligence test tonight. I got a ten
Speaker 1: ninety and it doesn't feel great, Chuck. I feel good
Speaker 1: saying it out loud, but it doesn't feel great. Uh. Well,
Speaker 1: that got I mean that was back then very easy
Speaker 1: to get into the University of Georgia. It's a lot
Speaker 1: harder now. They've really tightened tightened it down. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: of the Hope grant, which started the year I started
Speaker 1: to try to get in. So it got hard to
Speaker 1: get into Georgia the year that I started to try.
Speaker 1: And I gotta tell you so when I showed up
Speaker 1: with my ten ninety s A T score keep walking Pale,
Speaker 1: did you do you remember your high school g p A?
Speaker 1: What are you bleating the fist? I don't even know
Speaker 1: what that is. I don't remember my g p A.
Speaker 1: I want to say it was, it wasn't. I mean,
Speaker 1: my brother I think was a four, oh, of course,
Speaker 1: but I think I was like a three two or something.
Speaker 1: Both threes. I mean it was pretty slightly above average,
Speaker 1: because I would think mine was probably lower than that. Like,
Speaker 1: I was not at all interested in school. I liked history,
Speaker 1: I thought earth science was pretty cool. It wasn't until
Speaker 1: I got to college and wanted to like go to college.
Speaker 1: I just suddenly, like turned from Saul to Paul all
Speaker 1: of a sudden as far as college is concerned, and
Speaker 1: just completely started to take things seriously and got interested
Speaker 1: in learning. And it was then that I started to
Speaker 1: become like a four oh student in college, not not
Speaker 1: at all in high school for a student. Uh well,
Speaker 1: I went to some easy colleges the way to Georgia.
Speaker 1: Well my deal was I and I still am like this.
Speaker 1: I have a hard time tackling anything with enthusiasm that
Speaker 1: don't want to do. So I've always been that way
Speaker 1: since I was a kid. And so in my English
Speaker 1: classes I made A S and B S. And in
Speaker 1: my non major classes, not all of them, but the
Speaker 1: ones I wasn't super into, I made C S and
Speaker 1: a D or two. Oh yeah, I have those under
Speaker 1: my belt too, especially math. And it wasn't because I
Speaker 1: wouldn't try. I just genuinely couldn't get math. And one
Speaker 1: of the best things I ever did as far as
Speaker 1: math is concerned, was I took geometry twice in high
Speaker 1: school and the second time it just clicked, like I understood,
Speaker 1: Like I was walking around like I was Pythagoras. All
Speaker 1: of a sudden at high school. I just understood geometry
Speaker 1: that second time around. It was really cool. It was
Speaker 1: a great feeling to to just have something like that
Speaker 1: click that was so foreign, it's so difficult before, all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I just understood it the second time around. Well,
Speaker 1: and we went to school in an era when boy,
Speaker 1: there were not a lot of accommodations made for different
Speaker 1: kinds of learning at all, much less different learning disabilit
Speaker 1: at ease, and uh, it was just it was a
Speaker 1: different time. There's so much better now about you know.
Speaker 1: Every kid learns in their own way, and uh, and
Speaker 1: we can try and accommodate that. And then a lot
Speaker 1: of schools, not every school obviously, still a lot of
Speaker 1: work to be done. Yeah, I can't remember. I guess
Speaker 1: it was probably the NBC Nightly News, the National News.
Speaker 1: They have like a sweet human interest story like at
Speaker 1: the end of every every show, and they had one
Speaker 1: recently and it was about an integrated school in that
Speaker 1: like they didn't separate kids with like learning disabilities or
Speaker 1: um um physical uh, I don't even know what you
Speaker 1: call it differences, thank you um and kids who don't
Speaker 1: have those, Like they were all in the same class together,
Speaker 1: and I was like, holy cow, it's a huge improvement,
Speaker 1: you know, because they used to be like if you
Speaker 1: had facial differences and no cognitive disability whatsoever, just facial differences,
Speaker 1: they would put you in a class with Yeah. I mean,
Speaker 1: like it was like the dark cages in the eighties
Speaker 1: and nineties even you know when we were in school. Um,
Speaker 1: but the like now they're just integrating kids, at least
Speaker 1: in this one school. I thought it was so cool.
Speaker 1: But it was based on this Instagram post where this, uh,
Speaker 1: this little kid, I think he was probably about five
Speaker 1: or six, has cerebral palsy and he just had a
Speaker 1: little friend who was a girl who was the same age,
Speaker 1: who just loved him like like and just played with them.
Speaker 1: They were like best friends. She didn't seem to treat
Speaker 1: him any differently than she did any of the other kids.
Speaker 1: But it's just like so touched her mom. She posted
Speaker 1: on Instagram. Of course, it went viral and it was
Speaker 1: a sweet story. But I just thought it was really remarkable,
Speaker 1: and I was really glad to hear that. Now they're
Speaker 1: just like integrating kids by age level, not and not
Speaker 1: separating them by anything else. So hats off to school
Speaker 1: districts doing that. The final kind of test we should
Speaker 1: mention that can get you in uh as. If you
Speaker 1: were in the military prior to night you might be
Speaker 1: able to use your aptitude tests that you took back then.
Speaker 1: Now they do more vocational aptitude testing, but back pre
Speaker 1: eight they would do intelligence testing and you can use
Speaker 1: some of those if you did. You want to take
Speaker 1: a break and then talk about what you do if
Speaker 1: you get into MENSA. Let's do it, okay, Chuck, so um,
Speaker 1: let's see if you get into MENSA. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of things people do. One thing people do is take
Speaker 1: the test, say I'm in MENSA, and like you know,
Speaker 1: congratulate themselves for a couple of weeks and that's it.
Speaker 1: Other people like join MENSA because they have this sense
Speaker 1: and rightfully so that they will probably meet a lot
Speaker 1: of people like them who are smart, probably really like games,
Speaker 1: really like trivia, really like Star Trek. That is not
Speaker 1: a stereotype that is for real, Um, might be into nudism,
Speaker 1: might really love beer, just stuff that you would have
Speaker 1: like an interest in. But if you if you wanted
Speaker 1: to hang out with other high i Q people who
Speaker 1: have interests in that, you could do worse than joining MENSA.
Speaker 1: I think. Yeah, Um, you have to be an active member.
Speaker 1: You have to keep up with your dues, which you're
Speaker 1: seventy nine bucks a year. Uh, And it's they have
Speaker 1: not a sliding scale, but they have a if you
Speaker 1: sign up for and pay multiple years at a time,
Speaker 1: you can get that number down by average and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. Or you can pay for like a lifetime
Speaker 1: membership pro rated by your age if you want to
Speaker 1: pay all at once and save some money. But the
Speaker 1: dues are seventy nine bucks a year. And then like
Speaker 1: you said, there are are they're what they're called special
Speaker 1: interest groups. If you want to um drill down in
Speaker 1: your local area and be a member of like the
Speaker 1: MENSA Investment Club is a really popular one where imagine
Speaker 1: people sit around and talk about finances in smart ways
Speaker 1: to take care of your money. Um, it's like any
Speaker 1: other you know, local group that you you know, there's
Speaker 1: probably a MENSA Knitting group. Uh, it's just it's just
Speaker 1: that you're meeting with people that are like minded and
Speaker 1: that they're all good at take their high Q and
Speaker 1: they're good at taking those kind of tests right, right.
Speaker 1: And again, if you want some like unkind um characterizations
Speaker 1: of you know, what it's like at some of these,
Speaker 1: like you, you can just throw a rock on the
Speaker 1: internet and you'll find some article about somebody who like
Speaker 1: took the MENSA test and ended up at a MENSA
Speaker 1: meet up and now they're writing about it, but they're
Speaker 1: not really a member kind of thing. There's plenty of
Speaker 1: stuff out there, but suffice to say that like these
Speaker 1: are just there're people who really like board games and
Speaker 1: really like um uh beer and are probably like really
Speaker 1: sexually active to a surprising degree. Um. And one thing
Speaker 1: I saw, Chuck that seems to be genuine is that
Speaker 1: there is a kind of a libertarian, right leaning bent
Speaker 1: that seems to be fairly common in the mental world. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the modern mental world. I've seen that in more
Speaker 1: place than one. Uh. And you know, I, like you said,
Speaker 1: someone will go to one of these conferences and then
Speaker 1: do a write up about it and say, like there
Speaker 1: was a lot of drinking late night. There was a
Speaker 1: lot of people hooking up. It's sort of like any
Speaker 1: conference you would go to again, except they're made up
Speaker 1: of people that are good at taking this kind of test.
Speaker 1: But there there usually is some sort of mention of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: there seemed to be a sort of right wing bent
Speaker 1: two uh, and again there's a hundred fifty thousand members.
Speaker 1: That's a generalization, but at least that's what's being written. Yeah. So, UM,
Speaker 1: the the big deal gathering that they have every year,
Speaker 1: the big conference is called the Annual Gathering the a
Speaker 1: g UM. Last year they had one for it was
Speaker 1: like a world gathering because it was the seventy five
Speaker 1: anniversary of Mensas founding UM and they had that in
Speaker 1: Houston of all places. UM. So one is coming up
Speaker 1: in July. It's at the Golden Nugget in Sparks, Reno, Nevada,
Speaker 1: and they're having the Hidden Figures author Margaret Lee Shadow Lee,
Speaker 1: who's I think she is the keynote who's going to
Speaker 1: speak about Hidden Figures. There's also a drag show during
Speaker 1: a breakfast brunch UM I probably on Saturday or Sunday. UM.
Speaker 1: And then the other thing they're going to do is drink, drink,
Speaker 1: play games, drink and drink. I think is what what
Speaker 1: else is going to go on at the a G
Speaker 1: It's really interesting. There are other smaller get together as.
Speaker 1: There's one called the UH Colloquium, which is an annual thing.
Speaker 1: It's just one day and it's you know, they'll have
Speaker 1: like themed topics at this one, like crime scene intelligence
Speaker 1: would be one. Uh. There are mind Games, which is
Speaker 1: a four day board game extravaganza where people this is
Speaker 1: since nineteen they get together and play board games and
Speaker 1: You're a game can actually qualify as MENSA select on
Speaker 1: the label if they deem it. So so technically the
Speaker 1: stuff you should know board game uh might be played
Speaker 1: at the mind Games conference that it might even get
Speaker 1: that stamp one day. Yeah, you never know, you never know.
Speaker 1: I mean Apples to Apples, got it? And our game
Speaker 1: is at least as popular as that. Yeah, Taboo, got it? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's categories uh. And then there's Culture Quest. It's obviously
Speaker 1: MENSA members are probably generally into stuff like trivia, and
Speaker 1: there's a trivia Dave calls it a trivia throw down
Speaker 1: where they play trivia games against one another. So one
Speaker 1: of the other things about MENTA that it's well known
Speaker 1: for at their meetups is that people will wear name
Speaker 1: tags UM, third try and the the There'll be a dot,
Speaker 1: a colored dot next to their UM their name, and
Speaker 1: depending on the color of the dot, it indicates how
Speaker 1: welcoming they are toward hugs from other people. And this,
Speaker 1: by the way, is like this has been going on
Speaker 1: for a while. This is kind of like a longstanding
Speaker 1: Mensa tradition. It is very forward thinking because frankly, we
Speaker 1: could all kind of use the green dots or the
Speaker 1: hug dot system. Yeah. I mean a lot of people.
Speaker 1: I'm a hugger, but a lot of people don't like
Speaker 1: to be hugged. And it's, uh, it's one of these
Speaker 1: things I just learned m in the past few years
Speaker 1: that like with uh, with choosing what you do with
Speaker 1: your body and what people do to your body, that
Speaker 1: you shouldn't just go up and hug somebody. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: That's you know, it's just not some people genuinely don't
Speaker 1: like that kind of human contact. And it's not like
Speaker 1: I go up and just like tackle everyone I see, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever uh, I don't think I've
Speaker 1: ever been in a situation, in a situation where I
Speaker 1: made someone uncomfortable anything like that. But it's good to
Speaker 1: realize that, like, yeah, not everyone is into the same
Speaker 1: level of human contact and you shouldn't put your norm
Speaker 1: on them. And they have a very elegant way of
Speaker 1: doing that with these green dots and yellow dots or
Speaker 1: red dots or blue dots. Yeah, green is all. Hugs
Speaker 1: are welcome. Yellow chugs ask before hugging, Well, that's chuck. Now,
Speaker 1: red dot, no hugs at all, that's you. Blue Yeah,
Speaker 1: it should say burns like acid. Blue dot means I'm single.
Speaker 1: I think that means more than I'm single. You know what.
Speaker 1: I think that means like lead with your hips when
Speaker 1: you're hugging. Yeah, I think so. So what else, Chuck,
Speaker 1: What else do we have to say about MENA? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think we've talked about their image problem
Speaker 1: a bit. Like you said that you can throw a
Speaker 1: rock on the internet and and open almost any article
Speaker 1: and you will see someone bagging on mensa, uh in
Speaker 1: kind of a snotty way. And I don't know, man,
Speaker 1: the more I read about it, the more I just thought,
Speaker 1: you know what, these are probably a lot of these
Speaker 1: people probably got teased growing up because they may be
Speaker 1: fairly bookish, and uh like stop now, like your adults
Speaker 1: don't continue this sort of bullying in in newspapers by saying, yeah,
Speaker 1: I went to these things and it was a bunch
Speaker 1: of dorks playing board games and trying to get laid.
Speaker 1: Like they literally say that stuff in these articles. They do,
Speaker 1: and so I don't think it's just out of meanness.
Speaker 1: I think whether they're picking up on it um unconsciously
Speaker 1: or overtly, um, it's the people who write those kind
Speaker 1: of articles typically are not right leaning, so they're picking
Speaker 1: up on that right leaning undercurrent. And then they're also
Speaker 1: they're also kind of pointing to like some disturbing and
Speaker 1: alarming and just straight up gross ideas that people from
Speaker 1: MENSA have supported over the years or at least proposed um.
Speaker 1: And so like, when you take a group that focuses
Speaker 1: on i Q and inherently suggests that some people are
Speaker 1: superior to others, that can lead you to all sorts
Speaker 1: of like unsavory rabbit holes. And some people on MENSA
Speaker 1: or or parliaments are not afraid to like go down
Speaker 1: those rabbit holes and discuss them and talk about them
Speaker 1: free speech is a huge, huge, um thing among mentions,
Speaker 1: and they very much resent not being able to say
Speaker 1: whatever they want to say. UM. So it's it's it's
Speaker 1: with those articles. It's revealing there's like a culture clash
Speaker 1: between the person who's writing the article and the mentions
Speaker 1: that that are like the foil to them. That seems
Speaker 1: to be like the crux of those articles. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: there was a lot of news made UM kind of
Speaker 1: more recently when a comedian named Jamie Loftus, who by
Speaker 1: the way, has a podcast on our network called The
Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast Great Show, Movie Show, UM. Jamie's comedian who
Speaker 1: did a four part episode called My Year in Mensa
Speaker 1: where she joined Mensa. UM. I think the story was
Speaker 1: sort of just took the test one morning while hungover
Speaker 1: and then didn't have a good experience and became the target.
Speaker 1: There's this Facebook group, a mensa Facebook group that's a
Speaker 1: moderated called Firehouse, which can be very unkind and I
Speaker 1: think she uh loft has had a bad experience there
Speaker 1: and again with the sort of alt right undercurrent, and
Speaker 1: so that's what the basis of that podcast was. So
Speaker 1: I'm certainly not defending that stuff. You know, so yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean no, anytime anybody's attacked online that sucks. Um.
Speaker 1: But Dave I think kind of discovered like the genuine
Speaker 1: criticism that you could level against MENSA as a whole,
Speaker 1: and that is they're basing everything on i Q and
Speaker 1: i Q tests test a certain kind of smartness, completely
Speaker 1: leaves out things like emotional intelligence, street smarts, Yeah, that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff like, um, like it's a group of
Speaker 1: people who do really well on aptitude tests. Who it's
Speaker 1: a society of people who do really well on aptitude tests,
Speaker 1: and like the idea that they're joining the ranks of
Speaker 1: people who are in the top two percent of that
Speaker 1: group of people, that type of person So um, the
Speaker 1: fact that it's it's kind of bandied about is like
Speaker 1: the the the society for intelligent people. Um, it kind
Speaker 1: of misses a lot. But he also points out that
Speaker 1: they don't build themselves as that they build themselves as
Speaker 1: the high i Q society, which is a much narrower definition.
Speaker 1: And if you take it on its face value, then
Speaker 1: that makes sense. But most people out in the general
Speaker 1: public who hear about MENSA don't kind of differentiate between
Speaker 1: those two things. And if you get a hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty in of any people together in a group. Uh,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a couple of hundred that are pretty
Speaker 1: bad people that do bad things on Facebook. Um. So
Speaker 1: it's like, I just have a hard time sometimes when
Speaker 1: entire organizations get lumped in because of it. I don't
Speaker 1: want to say a few bad apples, but just the
Speaker 1: actions of of what's clearly a minority. Sure you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. Yeah, except Nazis. Yeah, yeah, they were
Speaker 1: nothing but bad apples. That's right. Uh, Well, if you
Speaker 1: want to know more about mental you can start poking
Speaker 1: around the internet. And uh, since I said you can
Speaker 1: start poking around the internet, that means it's time for
Speaker 1: a listener mail. I'm gonna call this a young listener. Hey, guys,
Speaker 1: brand new listener to the show. I first heard about
Speaker 1: you through the new book, which I checked out of
Speaker 1: the library a day the day before my baby was born.
Speaker 1: After my has been returned to work, I was trying
Speaker 1: to figure out a way to get the baby to
Speaker 1: sleep and tried reading to her. So I picked up
Speaker 1: stuff you should know, hoping the soothings out of my
Speaker 1: voice would laller to sleep. And that is all My
Speaker 1: husband walked in on me reading about Jack of ORKI
Speaker 1: into a three week old and put a temporary moratorium
Speaker 1: on reading to her. Uh, I think that's probably a joke. Um, well,
Speaker 1: I was hooked, and now that I've returned to work,
Speaker 1: I'm going through the backlog of episodes and learning while
Speaker 1: in the car. Thanks for helping me get through that
Speaker 1: postpartum period, Jessica. That's fantastic. I'm glad you're bringing them up,
Speaker 1: young Jessica. Thanks you ver very much, and congratulations on
Speaker 1: your little gift to the world. Yes, that's right. Well,
Speaker 1: if you want to be like Jessica and let us
Speaker 1: know about your late night um readings or listenings or
Speaker 1: goings on or anything like that, or if you've had
Speaker 1: experiences in MENSA. If you're a member of MENSA, we
Speaker 1: want to hear from you. You can send us an
Speaker 1: email to Stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff
Speaker 1: you Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio.
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