WEBVTT - How Mensa Works 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:04.240 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:13.960 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:19.840 There's Charles w Chuck Bryant and Jerry Rowlands lurking um 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.319 in the background. And this is Stuff you should know. 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:28.320 Smarty pants a dish m hm hmm. We're doing MENSA right, 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:32.800 Oh god, no I thought you were. I thought we 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:37.640 were doing a cage free re dux. Yes, this is 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:40.120 about MENTA. That's what I have pulled up to Chuck. 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:42.800 So this works out just fine. All right, let's do it. 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:45.640 So um. Dave Russe helped us out with this one. 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:50.199 And um he mentioned a bit of news that if 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:53.080 you looked up MENSA recently, would be hard to miss. 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:58.040 But I believe it was their youngest member ever was 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:02.040 inducted into MENSA. Mensa by the way, UM, for those 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:04.880 of you who don't know, IS bills itself as the 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:09.360 High i Q Society. It stands for it doesn't stand 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:14.080 for anything, so, which is super smart if you stop 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:16.360 and think about it. Yeah, it feels like it should 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:19.280 be an acronym, but it's not. Definitely. I'm with you, 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:21.039 but it will just go ahead and say it means 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:27.399 table in Latin yeah, and in Spanish slang it's a 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:31.880 female goofball or dumb person. Strangely enough, the irony Is 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:34.520 had tip to Dave Rus for putting that one out. 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:37.440 So as I was saying, it's a high i Q society, 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:40.760 it's society for smarty pants, as you put it, and 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:44.760 they inducted they inducted their youngest member recently, who was 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:51.360 two years old. Two years old, sure, and they don't 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:54.200 so they don't discriminate by age, which is great bully 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:56.480 for them. And I believe on their website they say 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:00.800 they're their membership ranges and ages two to a hundred 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:02.560 and two. I knew they were going to say that, 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:04.680 and I wonder if there's like a hundred and four 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:07.520 year old MENSUM members, Like what the F Yeah, I 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:10.880 just I didn't fit in with the cool uh whatever. 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.160 It's not even a rhyme, you know what I mean. Yeah, 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:17.359 I've always felt really bad about UM, the people in Uh. 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:23.080 Why what is that Christmas song? Kids from one too? 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:28.160 It's like year olds still appreciate Christmas. You know. I 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:30.440 cut that whole group out, And then you stop and 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:32.320 think this is written in the mid century and there 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:34.360 was like almost no one living to ninety two because 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:37.679 they were all having coroneries from cigars and scotches and 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:40.359 steaks all at once. It's kind of a random age, 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:43.960 though it is, but it rhyme, which is what I 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:46.280 think means it did here too. But regardless of this 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:49.519 two year old cache quest, um, just a queues a 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:53.160 button has an i Q of on, which means she's 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:56.519 got it all basically, and with an i q of 0:02:56.560 --> 0:03:00.400 ont six, that puts her well above the minimum wronment 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.240 to be accepted in a MENSA, which is usually about 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:07.160 an i q of about one thirty two. Yeah, so 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:08.560 you may have seen that in the news if you 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:11.000 and uh, you know, David is right to point out 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:13.840 if you mentioned mensa, the first thing most people will say, 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:16.400 and I don't know how this got so into the 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:20.000 public consciousness, but they will generally say, oh, you know, 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.639 Gina Davis is a MENSA member. Uh, she must have 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:26.320 mentioned in an interview or something. But it's been a 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:28.839 long time, because I've heard that for a long long 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:34.520 time as like the sort of go to fact for MENSA. Yeah, 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:36.800 I also heard another thing about Gene Davis. She used 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:41.280 to bake cookies and bring them to like meetings. She was. Well. 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:44.320 I heard another thing about Gina Davis because our our 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:47.640 friend and friend of the show, Jesse Thorne, interviewed her 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:51.360 on his great interview show Bulls Eye, and he said 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:56.720 that Gina Davis is the best person and he said 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:58.920 she is exactly what you hope she would be. And 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:02.160 everyone just felt like it was their cool aunt. Oh 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:04.040 that's pretty Everyone in the office like she was just 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:06.680 the nicest person and it she sounds like the kind 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:11.480 of person who would bake cookies in her MENSA style. Yeah, 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:14.040 and Jesse Thorn's hearing this and it's like she didn't 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:18.880 bring cookies to Army. Maybe she did so, um so Yes. 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:22.840 Gina Davis is world renowned as the uh, the most 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:26.040 famous member of MENSA, even though plenty of famous people 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:28.520 have been members of MENSA over the years. Bucky Fuller, 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:32.080 Arthur C. Clark was a vice president of MENSA International 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.440 for a while. Sharon Stone famously told people in the 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:38.520 nineties that she was in MENSA, and she finally called 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:41.919 out by MENSA saying like, no, you're not in MENSA. Yes, 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.520 she did lie, apparently for a good decade, until somebody 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:49.320 finally said something about it. And then James Woods is 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:51.560 often confused as a member of MENSA, but I don't 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.680 believe he actually is. Who else the guy who created 0:04:54.720 --> 0:05:00.320 the anti virus software McAfee John McAfee. Uh. And yeah, 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:02.600 there's there's a handful of people. And then, as we'll 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:06.320 talk about later, there are a lot of journalists who say, well, 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:08.760 I qualified to be in MENSA, but I didn't want 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:11.440 to be involved. Yeah, because that's the one thing about 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:14.920 men says. A lot of the popular press that's done 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:18.880 on that group takes easy pot shots at them because 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:21.760 they are a group of of their a high i 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:26.560 Q group and they're by definition very smart people, but 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.600 also enjoying a club like that it bestows a bit 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:32.440 of an air of superiority onto you. So there's a 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:37.120 there's a certain undercurrent of that, and so people who 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.640 write about them, recover them, usually take pot shots at 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:43.159 them and generally lump them all into one big group. 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:46.400 But that's not necessarily fair to say, because they are 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:50.520 a very collection of people. For sure, there are weird 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:56.240 undercurrents that are distasteful here there um, but overall, um, 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:59.080 they seem to be okay from what I can tell. Yeah, 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:01.640 and they are all kinds of mensines, which is what 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:05.400 they're called, uh, from all kinds of backgrounds in socio 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:11.719 economic strata. I guess we could break down the percentages 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:14.279 here if you want to get specific, U it is 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:18.239 sixty six percent uh male, this is from their stats, 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:22.680 thirty four percent female, UH, two percent to have a 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:27.159 four year degree or more, sixty three graduate degree or more, 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:32.599 thirty percent boomers, Gen X thirteen millennial, and then the rest. 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:38.320 But it's it's not a big group though. UM like 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:41.559 their total membership is a little less than a hundred 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:46.000 and fifty thousand worldwide, with about fifty thousand of those 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:49.960 being in the States, UH and nineteen thousand mean in 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:53.159 the UK where it was founded. But it's uh a 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:57.279 lot more people could be in MENSA that aren't in MENSA. 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:00.600 Does that make sense? Dave did them ath as if 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:02.359 to show off that he could be a member of 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:06.200 MENSA if he wanted to. But what MENSA membership means 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:12.000 is that you have tested in aptitude for intelligence within 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:16.320 the top two of people. So in the United States, 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:18.720 say there's three million, just to make it easy, but 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.920 I think there's much more than that. Now, UM that 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:25.240 would be six million people who would who would qualify 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.440 as members of MENSA, and yet, like you said, there's 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:30.960 only about fifty thousand in there. Yeah, I mean, and 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:33.040 I get if some people think that's a weird thing 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:35.360 to say, because you still have to take these tests, 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:38.320 you have to be good at test taking. But if 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:40.560 you just go by numbers of the top two percent 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:45.320 of intelligence, then sure, yes, but it also reveals something 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:49.680 that it's not for everybody, Like, just by virtue of 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:53.520 being smart or testing really well on an intelligence test, 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:56.520 that doesn't mean you automatically want to be a member 0:07:56.520 --> 0:08:00.120 of a group that that shares that in calm, and 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:04.320 that's an extra there's a very slight tranche of people 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:07.840 who qualify or who would qualify, who actually do want 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.920 to join MENSA. But the ones who do join MENSA 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:15.640 seem to tremendously enjoy and feel very accepted and happy there. Yeah, 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:19.000 And that's also in itself a pot shot that journalists 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:23.960 have taken commonly, which is, these are people who who 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:26.200 are smart enough to be in MENSA and want to 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:29.320 be able to tell everybody that they're in MENSA. And 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:31.200 you know, I'm sure there is some of that to 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:34.079 some degree. There are people that like to to flaunt 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:37.200 their Harvard degree or you know, drop the H bomb 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:40.640 as they say, or or their Ivy League education or 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:43.440 their MENSA membership. But I'm sure there are out of 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:46.440 a hundred and fifty thousand people, there are lots of 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:48.440 Gina davis Is that probably are just like, oh, yeah, 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:51.040 I'm in that, but it's really no big deal. Yeah. 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.120 The worst of the worst are people who are in MENSA, 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:58.880 went to Harvard, are on keto and are in the 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:03.600 cross fit Oh God, make it stop, and who recently 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:11.160 quit social media. Can you imagine? Ye? Should we talk 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.160 about the history party of one? That's a good joke. 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:19.040 Uh So MENSA got its start in six like I 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:22.400 mentioned in the UK, and it sort of happened by chance. 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.280 On a train there was a post grad student from 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:29.760 Oxford named a Lancelot where who was coming home for Christmas. 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:32.240 Break shared a cabin with a fifty year old named 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:36.719 Roland Barrel or Beryl, and Burrill was like, oh, you 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:38.439 got to Oxford. You know what. I wanted to go 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:41.040 to Oxford. I couldn't get into Oxford and it sort 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:44.199 of haunted me. And uh, he said, you know, I'm 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:45.839 into all kinds of stuff. Though I'm a smart guy. 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:49.880 I'm into chronology and astrology, and where said, that's that's 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:55.839 very interesting. I'm into testing intelligence, the younger Lancelot said. 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:58.679 He said, I was in the army in Britain and 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:03.280 we did aptitude testing on troops. I became fascinated by it. 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.440 When I went to Oxford, I was surrounded by smart people, 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:09.400 and I thought it would be really cool to form 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:14.000 a high i Q society within a school of people 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:20.680 that were already super intelligent. And Burrell said, very interesting, huh. 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:26.240 I envisioned him clapping his hands together and saying splendid. Okay, 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:28.400 because you left something out about him. One of the 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:32.120 things that usually is touted about, um what what Beryl 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:34.880 was into a barrel um is that he had a 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:40.280 plan to make all men were very brightly colored clothing. 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:43.280 I could not, for the life of me find out 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:48.720 why or what the point was, but it's yeah, so 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:52.600 so so. Barrell said, you know, this is a very 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.839 great idea. I think we should we should explore this further. 0:10:56.480 --> 0:11:01.160 And young Lancelot, where post doc UH student at Oxford, said, well, 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:03.360 you know, older gentlemen who have only just met on 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.120 this train. Why don't you come stay with me at 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:07.880 Oxford when I get back to school after Christmas break? 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:11.640 And Burrell took him up on it, and um, it 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.640 was there that they hatched the plan for MENSA after 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:20.360 Burrell was given an intelligence test UM by Lancelot Where 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.680 and When when Lancelot Where calculated the results and said, 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:27.880 Mr Burrell, you are within the top one percent of 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:32.640 all people in terms of intelligence. It's widely reported that 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:36.480 Roland Burrell cried because he was so happy and touched 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:40.800 by that right and had funding uh to start this 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.640 thing up, which was key. And so how it really 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.360 went down was he told them that he cried and said, 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:49.560 oh can I see the results? And Where quickly watted 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.800 them up and said that's not important. Take my word 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:55.120 for it. You're in the top one percent. Make the 0:11:55.200 --> 0:12:00.720 checkout dumoi and Burrell said splendid. Uh. But they needed 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:04.440 a name, and like you said, uh, they landed on MENSA. 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:08.199 I think initially they wanted to call it UM Capital 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:10.200 mm E n S, which was short for the Mental 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:14.439 Health Society. That's just not even close. No, it's pretty 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:18.320 where yeah, where's the h H? And also there was 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:23.400 I think a a gentleman's magazine called Men's. Uh that's 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:27.360 in scare quotes. And so they said, well, how about mensa, which, 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.440 like you pointed out, is Latin for table, because I 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.520 just envisioned its like all these smarty pants sitting around 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.880 a round table talking about wonderful things. And they said, 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:38.960 I guess they said, shut, that's as good a name 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:42.040 as any. So originally, if you've ever seen that Simpson's 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:46.600 episode where Lisa joins Mensa, UM, I don't remember that one. 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.000 It's it's a pretty good one. Uh. It's a cautionary 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:57.000 tale about um mensa, letting an intelligent elite determine the 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:01.079 fate of everybody else at the while just completely discounting 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:04.760 anyone who's not an intelligent elite, right, Um, And like 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.160 Comic Book Guy and Dr Hibbert and a couple of 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:10.120 other character Sideshow mel, they're all in. They're all in 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:13.400 Mensa with her, and they basically take over the town 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:15.600 if I'm not mistaken, and it just goes awry, it 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:19.200 ends up going terribly awry. Um, But that's kind of 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:24.080 originally what Lancelot where and Roland Barrel were, Um, we're 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:28.079 envisioning when they founded mensa, this group of the most 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:36.560 intelligent uh Britishers Britton's say, yeah, um in in the UK, 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:40.760 who would kind of be assembled to be a group 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:45.080 that the government or scientific projects or whoever wanted to 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:48.400 tap their intelligence could tap their intelligence. That was the 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:52.720 original idea for mensah. And by the way, the keen 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:56.800 eared listener would have just picked up on my one 0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:02.760 word impression of Juliu Sibbert. What did you say. I'm 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:04.280 not going to repeat. It's got You've gotta be a 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:09.280 keen listener man. So, uh, if you heard it, then 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:11.600 hats off to you. You're not allowed to rewind if 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:15.120 you're listening at home. Can I rewind? You can't rewind. 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:18.960 Nobody can rewind. You had to have heard it live, 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:23.760 okay okay? Uh And and like two people will have 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:26.680 gotten it and one person and the rest of us 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.520 are all mad. Now, Oh that's okay, I'll do it 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:32.280 for you off Mike. Uh So, yeah, they wanted they 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.120 wanted to kind of from the sounds of it, almost 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:40.880 like a Rolodex of Smarties because they wanted to not 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:44.000 just have that list, but they even said in their 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:48.120 charter they wanted it in the hands of anthropologists and 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:51.640 ministers of the crown, like they wanted people that mattered 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:55.240 to have this list on hand, like who do who? 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:57.160 You know? I need a smart person, let me look 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.240 at my mental list. Uh. And their goal, I think, 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:04.000 did you mention was six d people with their contact 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:06.680 information so they could get in touch. And it took 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:11.120 them thirteen years uh to get to that. That benchmark 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:14.360 in nineteen fifty nine is when they finally got it. 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:19.920 And it wasn't until some American ex pats joined in 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.080 England got written up by the Village Voice in the 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:26.240 New York Times that it kind of really started to 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:29.520 gain a little bit more traction in the States and 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.160 then around the world. So it's it's crazy that it 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:36.200 took him thirteen years to what because right after that, 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.280 and I guess it was because of the interest among Americans, 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:42.840 UM that initially started out, like you said, with ex pats, 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.720 and then after a couple of articles captured everybody else's attention, 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:49.560 UM that it just took off. Like if you saw 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:52.880 a chart, it would look like that hockey stick of 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:58.080 um of global warming. I think it is. Remember that 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.760 from the nineties the hockey stick crash. So that's pretty 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.120 much what mentsa UM membership would look like it from 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:10.400 nineteen sixty UM. And it was largely thanks to a 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.560 few people UM over the years. But one of the 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.320 first people who really kind of helped meant to take 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:18.640 off as an organization was a guy named John Cardella, 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.960 who was an American pr guy UM, and he took 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:29.280 this group that was almost had like fraternity like origins, 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:34.600 like apparently Roland Barrel UM had a uh like part 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:38.320 of the early rules was to have a woman seated 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:40.960 on a throne wearing a leopard skin and nothing else 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:43.880 UM as part of the meetings. Like it was they 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:48.440 had that kind of vibe to it. And when Cadella sure, 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:52.720 you know, and it kind of Anton LaVey vibe UM. 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.760 And so when John Cadella UM came in the picture, 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.320 he like kind of dusted off all that stuff and 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:02.840 UM turned it into a legitimate type of organization, definitely 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:06.600 legitimized it, if not made it legitimate, right, So in 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:10.199 fifty nine they had six hundred. By sixty seven, a 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.040 mere eight years later, uh, it had swelled up to 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:17.800 twelve thousand and change. And uh, you know that he 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:19.840 would get people on TV. It was that kind of thing. 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.159 Like he was a genuine pr guy. So all of 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:25.480 a sudden there were MENSA members, some very charismatic that 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.520 we're being sort of bandied about in articles and on television. 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:32.240 Well there's one in particular. He was the chairman, I believe, 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:33.720 and he was the guy who I think would go 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:36.080 on like Johnny Carson and stuff like that. That's right, 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:40.440 that's what I was talking about, Victor. Uh. True. M 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:45.239 Sarah Briakoff, I think so I've seen it, seen it 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:50.560 compared to or Cerebral. So I think it's Cerebriakoff. Yeah, 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.280 there's an extra vowel in there that's coming up the works. 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:57.760 That's right up my alley. Though. Should we take a break, Sure, 0:17:57.880 --> 0:17:59.520 all right, let's take a break. We'll be right back, 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:38.280 all right. So member member MENSA is gaining members very steadily. Uh, 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:42.119 it is growing throughout the decades. You could, if you 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:45.159 wanted to be a member, you could mail them some money. 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:48.240 And I know a cynical view would be like they're 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:51.240 just like trying to make money, but it's an organization 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.920 that that you know, that needs money to run. Um. 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.640 I doubt if they like or have some super rich 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:00.720 fund that they dig into but is when you look 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:04.000 at the things they do, it's really nothing like super lavish. 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:05.920 They don't have like yacht parties and stuff from what 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:10.280 I can tell. No, but I've never run across any 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:12.840 kind of intimation that it's a money making scheme of 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:15.399 any sort. Yeah, I just mean for the listener, like, 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:18.120 uh oh yeah, mail them a check and they'll send 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:20.000 you a test. But that's how it works. You mail 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:22.160 them a check back in the day, they would send 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:26.480 you a test um. They I think it was Cerebrakov 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:28.840 who said, you know what we can also do is 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:31.760 we can have these supervised like actually someone would come 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:34.760 and administer a test. Uh, it would be a little 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:37.880 more official, might cost a little more money. We need 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:41.800 a constitution, so they said, not a bad idea, And 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:44.879 if you read their constitution, the three tenants are really 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:50.160 pretty great. It's identifying foster human intelligence for the benefit 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:54.080 of humanity, no problem there, encourage research in the nature, 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:59.800 characteristics and uses of intelligence, check and provide us stimulating 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:03.840 in a alectual and social environment for members. Sounds good 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:06.840 to me, yeah, of course. And then number four forced 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:13.000 breeding of people according to intelligence. Yeah, no problems, right, No, 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:17.840 they didn't do that. So UM, there was kind of 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:22.399 a heyday. It seems like, uh in the sixties, I think, 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:24.879 And apparently there's a lot of attention at first between 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:28.639 UK and US and UM. Within just a couple of 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.800 years of coming on the scene, the Kansas City chapter 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:36.159 stage of revolt against the UK headquarters six shooters, and 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:39.200 basically I saw that they launched like a poison pen 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:41.800 attack where they were right. Yes, they would write the 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:45.320 employers of these MENSA like higher ups and like and 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:48.640 basically accused them of terrible stuff and and finally got 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:54.480 the American chapters to basically be independent and equal UM, 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:58.840 and that formed Mensa International. But the sixties were kind 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:01.439 of a heyday. The seven seemed to be hohum. And 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:04.240 then apparently the eighties took off because UM, from what 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:06.760 I saw in this article, and I can't remember what 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:12.880 what maybe the independent from it said that the kind 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:17.040 of the through line of an organization like MENSA, the 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:21.920 idea that some people are just naturally more intelligent than others, 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:30.280 really jibes with that Reagan, Thatcher era of mentality of UM, 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:32.840 of getting away from the idea that you know you 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:35.080 can achieve if you're given the right kind of stuff. 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:37.320 It's like, no, you got this problem over here, We 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:39.240 got that you know, we're over here. We're not gonna 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:41.720 help you, because why would we, Because you're you're beyond help, 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:46.439 You're not naturally gifted. That kind of conservative uh thread 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:49.320 that was really present in the in the Thatcher Reagan 0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:53.120 eighties made MENSA a lot more respectable or a lot 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:56.040 more appealing during that time from what I saw. Yeah, 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:59.280 and I think in England it peaked in the nineties 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:04.320 or specifically with about thirty thousand there and now as 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:08.199 fewer than twenty thou So, uh, Dave said, you know, 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:10.639 some of this might be, you know, the MENSA image 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:14.080 problem might be to blame. But you know, it's just 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:15.960 one of those organizations. It's gonna have its ups and 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:19.800 downs over the years. I'm sure as far as membership numbers, 0:22:19.800 --> 0:22:23.520 you know. Yeah, So, um, how do you get in, Chuck, 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:26.359 If you want to get into MENSA? What do you do? 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:30.600 Hot shot? You bake some cookies for Gina Davis? Sure 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:35.280 that doesn't hurt Uh, No, you it's really easy, actually, uh. 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:39.240 In in practice, you just need to score within the 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:44.040 top two percent of an intelligence test and that it's 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:46.520 it's not like you can just take any intelligence test. 0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:50.679 It depends on UM. Well, I mean, now there's an 0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:54.880 official MENSA test that that you take, but uh, there 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:58.280 are also other i Q tests that can qualify, the 0:22:58.320 --> 0:23:05.439 Stanford Benet test, the Catel three B test, and I 0:23:05.440 --> 0:23:08.199 think we should hold off on sort of the the 0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:12.920 big reveal, the big twist here for another few minutes. Okay, Uh, 0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:17.760 we'll keep that in her hip pocket. Uh. An official 0:23:17.880 --> 0:23:21.880 from your country will administer uh their tests to you, 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:25.159 and uh it takes a couple hours if you take 0:23:25.200 --> 0:23:28.360 the official ment to test. These are those If you've 0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:30.199 ever taken an i Q test, you know it's not 0:23:30.280 --> 0:23:33.119 like the s A T. It's it's a logic and 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:38.440 reasoning test generally. Uh. And the questions are things like, uh, 0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:41.560 you're you're doing a lot of sequencing, like look at 0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:44.200 these shapes, which shape would come next? Which number would 0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:47.960 come next? Uh. It does test verbal intelligence and vocabulary 0:23:48.000 --> 0:23:50.440 and stuff like that. Math is a part of it, 0:23:51.000 --> 0:23:54.240 but it's times, which is one of the big sort 0:23:54.280 --> 0:23:56.960 of not caveats. But the big thing you have to 0:23:57.000 --> 0:23:59.560 remember is you have to be a good test taker 0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:02.440 and you have to be able to take tests under 0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:05.919 pressure time to pressure, right, like that one scene in 0:24:06.000 --> 0:24:09.840 Swordfish with poor poor Hugh Jackman. I didn't see that. 0:24:10.240 --> 0:24:13.400 You didn't miss much at all. Ok So, um, that's 0:24:13.440 --> 0:24:17.959 the standard mentor test menta admissions test. Um. And some 0:24:18.000 --> 0:24:20.000 people say, well, hold on, if you're a non native 0:24:20.000 --> 0:24:23.800 English speaker and you're in America, that that's those tests 0:24:23.800 --> 0:24:27.359 are have been shown to be biased towards certain people, 0:24:27.840 --> 0:24:31.680 usually based on language. So Mental also administers what's called 0:24:31.720 --> 0:24:36.680 the culture fair test, and it's nothing like yeah, it's 0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:40.800