Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to Okay f Daily with
Speaker 1: me your Girl, Danielle Moody recording not so live but
Speaker 1: live ish from my home in Brooklyn. See the plant babies.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Look how gorgeous they look. The sun
Speaker 1: is setting them just right. Anyway, folks, I'm so excited
Speaker 1: to be with you now five days a week on video.
Speaker 1: I think that this is going to be a really
Speaker 1: fun journey that we're going to take together. And I'm
Speaker 1: excited that after writing with me on Patreon and on
Speaker 1: audio for so long, that we can do something different.
Speaker 1: So today, first, I want to start off with the
Speaker 1: fact that I can't express to you how disappointed I
Speaker 1: am in this administration. And I say that not because
Speaker 1: I don't think that they have good intentions, but it's
Speaker 1: because the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Speaker 1: It's because we recognis that, you know, having essentially Congress
Speaker 1: and the White House isn't enough that you actually have
Speaker 1: to have the will, You actually have to have the
Speaker 1: fight within you. And I'm tired of us being fed
Speaker 1: these lines like don't let the perfect get in the
Speaker 1: way of the good, or something is better than nothing,
Speaker 1: or this is historic even though it was gutted of
Speaker 1: all of the things that people need right and I'm
Speaker 1: talking about the Infrastructure Bill, and I'm talking about all
Speaker 1: of the compromises, and by compromises, I actually mean the
Speaker 1: way in which Joe Mansion and Kirsten's Cinema were able
Speaker 1: to throw their weight around and essentially show us firsthand
Speaker 1: that we no longer live in a democracy that two
Speaker 1: people can halt progress for the rest of the country
Speaker 1: just because they want to. They love the attention, they
Speaker 1: love the money that is being thrown at them, they
Speaker 1: love all of the headlines. But what they don't love, friends,
Speaker 1: is America. What they don't love is progress and the
Speaker 1: fact that we continue to refer to them as moderates
Speaker 1: when they are not. They are They're not insurrectionists, So
Speaker 1: I won't say that even though we have insurrectionists sitting
Speaker 1: in Congress right now, none of which who have been
Speaker 1: arrested or indicted or called before the one six Commission.
Speaker 1: But they are obstructionists. And that's what I used to
Speaker 1: refer to as Mitch mcconnellists as well as the Grim Reaper.
Speaker 1: They are obstructionists. They don't want progress so long as
Speaker 1: it interferes with their bag. And what do I mean
Speaker 1: by their bag? Their money right, their pockets, like as
Speaker 1: so long as they are fed, so long as their
Speaker 1: families are bringing in millions, then they are good. The
Speaker 1: disrespect that Kirsten cinema, and I'll keep saying it over
Speaker 1: and over again, the disrespect that she showed the Senate
Speaker 1: with her fucking denim jacket and the flipping of her
Speaker 1: hair like she is some fucking high schooler was embarrassing.
Speaker 1: And it was embarrassing for a couple of reasons because
Speaker 1: it showed her absolute and total privilege right as a
Speaker 1: white woman that gets to do and say whatever it
Speaker 1: is that she wants to do. Black people aren't even
Speaker 1: allowed to walk down the fucking street, right Like, everything
Speaker 1: that we do is criticize, from the top of our
Speaker 1: heads to the bottom of our toes, to the way
Speaker 1: in which we straighten up our backs, or if we slouch,
Speaker 1: or if we decide not to brush our hair that day,
Speaker 1: or if we decide to do the most. It is
Speaker 1: always criticized because everything that is on and comes from
Speaker 1: a black body is politicized. So the very idea that
Speaker 1: you can just shows just such, you know, casualness, just
Speaker 1: such disregard at this critical time. And I know, folks,
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, the clothes are not the problem, like
Speaker 1: she's the problem, But it's the entire package. To me
Speaker 1: that is the problem, and is the package of white privilege.
Speaker 1: The other thing that I want to discuss is that
Speaker 1: tomorrow is one of the most consequential elections that we
Speaker 1: will see in Virginia. And look, I'm tired of saying
Speaker 1: the word consequential too, you know why, because every fucking
Speaker 1: election is consequential. And what we saw following twenty twenty
Speaker 1: is that guess what elections matter, right, and how big
Speaker 1: of a margin we have actually fucking matters. And so
Speaker 1: here's the thing. You have Terry mcculiffe, and you have
Speaker 1: junkin right, who are running in Virginia. You have a
Speaker 1: man that is essentially Trump light. He is everything that
Speaker 1: I said was going to happen. Right. Once you had
Speaker 1: somebody who could speak a little smoother, maybe understood the
Speaker 1: system a little better, was an easier pill to swallow,
Speaker 1: but still had all of the same ideology and sentiments
Speaker 1: of Donald Trump. Right. Put him up in a suit,
Speaker 1: smack a smile on his face, have him not call
Speaker 1: people outside of their names, and guess what you got yourself?
Speaker 1: A candidate, This man wants to ban books in school,
Speaker 1: Tony Morrison, to be exact right, he wants to ban
Speaker 1: books in school. He doesn't want to have mask mandates,
Speaker 1: he doesn't want abortion, he doesn't want all of the
Speaker 1: things that Republicans are going after these days. If this
Speaker 1: man wins, he is setting up his place right and
Speaker 1: setting Trump is m in stone, because again, what do
Speaker 1: people need to understand? So long as you are not
Speaker 1: spinning hot shit or tweeting hot shit like Donald Trump
Speaker 1: did for four years, then you'll be palpable, right. And
Speaker 1: what we knew to be true is that Donald Trump
Speaker 1: was palpable to seventy five million Americans, right, because that's
Speaker 1: how many people voted for him. So just imagine a smoother,
Speaker 1: more refined but with the same ideology person running for
Speaker 1: office and them winning. The margins are closing in Virginia,
Speaker 1: and frankly, I don't fucking understand why I have lived
Speaker 1: in Virginia. I lived in Arlington for many years. I've
Speaker 1: lived in Washington, DC for well over decades, and so
Speaker 1: I don't understand what is going on in that state
Speaker 1: right now. But I plead with you, if you have
Speaker 1: friends that live in Virginia, if you live in Virginia,
Speaker 1: get out and fucking vote. Get them to vote. Get
Speaker 1: at least ten people with you to go to the polls.
Speaker 1: Offer to shuttle people back and forth, do whatever it
Speaker 1: is that you can right now, because we are running
Speaker 1: out of time and this is going to set the
Speaker 1: tone for what midterms will look like. And I already
Speaker 1: can tell you Democrats don't have a whole lot to
Speaker 1: fucking offer. They really don't. And that's the problem is
Speaker 1: that when you look over the last you know, ten months,
Speaker 1: we're getting ready to look at it a year since
Speaker 1: the election. When you look at that time, right and
Speaker 1: you realize, well, how is my life different? What have
Speaker 1: they done? They've done really nothing. And yes they can
Speaker 1: now say that we pass this infrastructure bill, but what
Speaker 1: will it do. Is it going to provide the American
Speaker 1: people with the things that they need or the things
Speaker 1: that Joe Mansion said that you should have, or that
Speaker 1: is just good enough? Right? Because that's where we are.
Speaker 1: We're at a time when we need robust change in
Speaker 1: big thinkers and change makers right and warriors that are
Speaker 1: on the field and recognize that we are at war.
Speaker 1: We are at war with a political party that is
Speaker 1: a group of insurrectionists that want to overthrow our government.
Speaker 1: And they are doing it right. They are doing it
Speaker 1: each and every day. Each and every day that Merritt
Speaker 1: Garland decides to sit on his fucking hands and do
Speaker 1: absolutely nothing, he is telling them, next time, make it better,
Speaker 1: make it bigger, and make it stick, because there is
Speaker 1: no responsibility, there is no accountability for any of the
Speaker 1: actions that have been taken. We know, we know that
Speaker 1: their insurrection is sitting inside of Congress right now. We
Speaker 1: know that there are people that gave gave these people
Speaker 1: the blue prints to the Capitol. We know all of
Speaker 1: those things. But none of those people are in jail. None.
Speaker 1: And that should make every single one of us sick.
Speaker 1: And I'm so fucking tired of being told, oh, well,
Speaker 1: we got to follow the process. Republicans never follow the
Speaker 1: fucking process. They barely ever follow the fucking law. And
Speaker 1: we know that over the four years of Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: they didn't follow the law at all. They thought the
Speaker 1: Constitution was a fucking suggestion, right, And so but here
Speaker 1: we are with Democrats with all their hand ringing right
Speaker 1: with all of their Oh history will remember you. How
Speaker 1: when you're gutting the history books and you're not doing
Speaker 1: dick about that? So what history books is going to
Speaker 1: remember you? You'll be written out right, or you'll be banned.
Speaker 1: We already have schools across this country curriculums that are
Speaker 1: erasing the insurrection. Oh that's too divisive, so we don't
Speaker 1: want to talk about it. Oh it was just a
Speaker 1: group of tourists that got out of control, So we're
Speaker 1: not going to talk about it, so we won't write
Speaker 1: it up. So what history exactly is going to remember
Speaker 1: these people? Nothing? None. You know. I was in La
Speaker 1: at the end of last week, and I have to
Speaker 1: tell you that I was sitting around with folks because,
Speaker 1: as I mentioned to you all, I'm a member, a
Speaker 1: board member of the miss Foundation for Women that is
Speaker 1: specifically working on investing in organizations that are focused on
Speaker 1: lifting up black and brown girls right and women. So
Speaker 1: organizations that support this work doing a myriad of things.
Speaker 1: And I'm sitting there and I'm talking to folks and
Speaker 1: They're just like, Yo, this country is going to hell
Speaker 1: in a fucking handbasket. But I live in California. So
Speaker 1: for right now, for right now, I feel safe. But
Speaker 1: I got to tell you that as I look out
Speaker 1: at the rest of the country, I realize that we
Speaker 1: are in deep, deep trouble. And that's the thing is
Speaker 1: that I can say, right now, Okay, I'm sitting in
Speaker 1: New York and I can feel safe ish, but for
Speaker 1: how long? Because the next time that a Donald Trump
Speaker 1: or a Trump like figure becomes president of the United States,
Speaker 1: they are going to use every single bit of power
Speaker 1: that they have to drain blue states, right, which is
Speaker 1: funny because we subsidize red states. Let's just be clear.
Speaker 1: They don't make any fucking money or produce a goddamn thing,
Speaker 1: right except obesity and under education. Let me not. Let
Speaker 1: me not. That was rude, Let me not. But I'm
Speaker 1: just so angry these days. I'm just so angry and
Speaker 1: frustrated at the fact that all we did was press pause.
Speaker 1: All we did was press pause, and why the rest
Speaker 1: of us are looking around and realizing that we are
Speaker 1: in mortal danger, right, mortal danger. Right, Just imagine what
Speaker 1: the slate of presidential candidates are going to look like
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four if we make it there, right,
Speaker 1: Ron de Santis, Trump junkin right, Abbott, like, these are
Speaker 1: the people that are going to be running to be
Speaker 1: president of the United States. And frankly, although Joe Biden
Speaker 1: is nice and he's comforting, right, when the people look
Speaker 1: around and if he hasn't offered them anything, and then, frankly,
Speaker 1: when we lose the House and the Senate, and then
Speaker 1: you can't offer us anything. You can't offer us any
Speaker 1: fucking judges that are going to combat the over three
Speaker 1: hundred judges that are now across the country. And now
Speaker 1: when Republicans get hold of the White House again and
Speaker 1: get hold of Congress again, what do you think is
Speaker 1: going to happen? Every single law, every single law that
Speaker 1: you think is laid down in cement, isn't That's the
Speaker 1: thing that I wish that Democrats would get on their
Speaker 1: fucking bullhorn and be screaming about. But they're not right.
Speaker 1: We are in danger. Brown versus the Board of Education
Speaker 1: is in danger. Plus a versus Ferguson is in danger.
Speaker 1: Marriage equality is in danger. Why because we refuse to
Speaker 1: take the action to end the filibuster, to strengthen our
Speaker 1: voting rights, to strengthen our courts, to strengthen anything about
Speaker 1: our democracy and just hope you know that shaming Republicans
Speaker 1: is going to do something You cannot shame the devil.
Speaker 1: That is the thing that folks need to understand. And
Speaker 1: so we're going into midterm elections folks on a hope
Speaker 1: and a fucking prayer, right hoping that people still have
Speaker 1: Trump residue because you know what, again, Joe Biden hasn't
Speaker 1: been doing. He hasn't been taking every single administration member
Speaker 1: from the Trump administration and bringing them out on a
Speaker 1: perp walk for all of the fucking illegal and criminal
Speaker 1: ast shit that they have done. Right, he is not
Speaker 1: reminding the American people each and every day about the
Speaker 1: insurrectionists and that we are holding these people accountable because
Speaker 1: our country right needs to reflect strength not only internally
Speaker 1: and know that people are held responsible, but externally right
Speaker 1: to our allies so that they can see that while
Speaker 1: democracy may falter, it will not fall in America. But
Speaker 1: those are just slogans because we are taking absolutely no
Speaker 1: action to make sure that that is certain, folks. Today,
Speaker 1: I'm very excited about the conversation that is coming up
Speaker 1: next with Alex J. Packer, who is a psychologist and
Speaker 1: wrote the book Slaying Digital Dragons about our kids obsession
Speaker 1: and dare I say us as well, our obsession and
Speaker 1: you know, addiction frankly to the digital world. Right as
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg is announcing metaverse, right and essentially turning our
Speaker 1: real lives into sims. He has written a book that
Speaker 1: is about how we need to decompress, that we need
Speaker 1: to take breaks from social media. That it is not
Speaker 1: only a danger to ourselves physically and emotionally, right with
Speaker 1: the slouching over and the thumbs right, and the arthritis
Speaker 1: and the eyes and all of the things that are
Speaker 1: going wrong physically, but that our addiction to our devices
Speaker 1: is also thwarting our democracy, right, our engagement, our ability
Speaker 1: to have empathy for one another. I'll ask him a question,
Speaker 1: and I will ask this to all of you. I
Speaker 1: felt that with the advent of social media and the
Speaker 1: ability to connect to people, that it would increase our
Speaker 1: empathy because we could see, right, we would see these
Speaker 1: videos we collectively watched George Floyd's murder, right, like, we
Speaker 1: could see these things happening, and that that would invoke empathy.
Speaker 1: Alex says, the absolute opposite is actually happening, And I
Speaker 1: want to know what you think? What do you remember
Speaker 1: your initial thoughts about social media and you know, connectivity
Speaker 1: and building community in the digital space, what you thought
Speaker 1: about it ten years ago and what you think about
Speaker 1: it now. Do you force yourself to take breaks? Do
Speaker 1: you have you know, device free days? Is that even possible? Right?
Speaker 1: Is it possible to leave your home without your phone?
Speaker 1: Or do you just shut off all of your apps
Speaker 1: for the day. I want to know how you you
Speaker 1: are putting yourself, if at all, on any type of
Speaker 1: device diet, so that you can take a break, so
Speaker 1: that you don't have a breakdown. So that conversation is
Speaker 1: coming up next, and I'd love to hear from you,
Speaker 1: folks again. I am so very excited about making this
Speaker 1: journey with all of you into video and I know
Speaker 1: that we will have much more exciting and engaging things
Speaker 1: to produce for all of you patrons, and so I
Speaker 1: just want it again. Want to say thank you, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you for being a part of this journey. Coming
Speaker 1: up next is my conversation with Alex J. Packer. Folks,
Speaker 1: I am very excited to welcome to Okay f for
Speaker 1: the very first time psychologist Alex J. Packer, who is
Speaker 1: the author of a new book, Slaying Digital Dragons, Tips
Speaker 1: and Tools for protecting your body, brain, psyche and thumbs
Speaker 1: from the Digital dark Side. Alex you talk about the
Speaker 1: fact that a year in pandemic life or I guess
Speaker 1: we are a year plus over in that time, that
Speaker 1: the amount of time that kids and teens have spent
Speaker 1: on their devices, whether it's iPads, iPhones, you know, computers
Speaker 1: is has reached what you were saying as shocking levels.
Speaker 1: I think it's shocking as well that eight ten and
Speaker 1: even twelve hours or more a day is no longer
Speaker 1: considered unusual. I mean that when we when I think
Speaker 1: eight ten and twelve hours, I think about the amount
Speaker 1: of sleep that young people should be getting. How is
Speaker 1: it that they can manage to be on devices eight
Speaker 1: ten and twelve hours a day. Many of them ten't manage.
Speaker 1: And that's what motivated me to write the book. You know,
Speaker 1: I want to say up front, their men, teens who
Speaker 1: use these devices as a tool in their lives and
Speaker 1: they exercise control over them. And the digital world is
Speaker 1: a miracle, but it's also a monster. And I am
Speaker 1: increasingly concerned about the impact on growing bodies and brains
Speaker 1: and psyches and social beings of technology and particularly big tech,
Speaker 1: and what it's doing to young people and the foundational
Speaker 1: pillars of our society. So let's start out with the
Speaker 1: fact that you know, I have many I don't have
Speaker 1: kids myself, but I have many friends that do. And
Speaker 1: I'm seeing children as young as one two years old
Speaker 1: that are on screen time. Parents hand them over any
Speaker 1: number of devices as a way to pacify them. Right,
Speaker 1: it has become the new pacifier. What makes that at
Speaker 1: those young very young brain is readily developing. What makes
Speaker 1: that particularly dangerous for the younger set, well, for the
Speaker 1: younger kids, They are experiencing life through a tiny screen
Speaker 1: and it doesn't have the same tactile or a motive
Speaker 1: bonding elements that face to face interactions with their caregivers
Speaker 1: with siblings would have. It's a very narrow experience. And
Speaker 1: they're not out in sandboxes, they're not playing with physical toys.
Speaker 1: Their eyes are glued to a screen. And you know,
Speaker 1: I think of this a bit like you know the
Speaker 1: story about the frogs. If you put them in a
Speaker 1: plot of wall Yeah, yeah, they won't jump out when
Speaker 1: it's turned up to boiling. And for kids today, they
Speaker 1: are simply immersed in digital devices practically from birth and
Speaker 1: there's no conscious decision about it. And by the time
Speaker 1: they're eight, ten, twelve, eighteen, these devices have taken over
Speaker 1: their lives. Is it that not only are they seeing
Speaker 1: life through this tiny screen, but as a psychologist, is
Speaker 1: it also really harming their ability to make connections? How
Speaker 1: is this kind of amped up amount of screen time?
Speaker 1: Because you know, on one hand, I'll say this, on
Speaker 1: one hand, I was so thankful during quarantine that my God,
Speaker 1: that this was happening at this point in time and
Speaker 1: not fifteen twenty years prior, right where we had FaceTime
Speaker 1: and zoom and all of these other opportunities to connect
Speaker 1: outside of physical touch. I thought that that in and
Speaker 1: of itself may have actually saved people's lives who you know, depression, anxiety,
Speaker 1: and that kind of isolation we know was causing and
Speaker 1: triggering a lot of mental health crises. So in that,
Speaker 1: in that vein, I think, my goodness, to your point,
Speaker 1: what a miracle. Right on the other hand, for those
Speaker 1: that are not that we're not aged in a time
Speaker 1: where I had both both the sandbox right and then
Speaker 1: the and then was a child in a teenager in
Speaker 1: the development of the Internet, so it was able to
Speaker 1: really manage both of those things. As a psychologist, what
Speaker 1: are we seeing in terms of how difficult it is
Speaker 1: or what the differences are in being able to connect
Speaker 1: if a screen is your first mode of contact, Well,
Speaker 1: the main difference is that these devices are hijacking your being.
Speaker 1: You know, people often say to me, well, you know, teenagers,
Speaker 1: it's a time of passion and compulsive behavior. And how
Speaker 1: are these devices? How is social media any different from
Speaker 1: comic books or rock and roll, or you know, spending
Speaker 1: hours tying up the family lambline, and the differences. Those
Speaker 1: were tools, Those were choices teams made. You choose to
Speaker 1: pick up a comic book, you choose to spend three
Speaker 1: hours a day playing drums or shooting hoops. These devices
Speaker 1: now are controlling us. They're not our tools. We've become
Speaker 1: their tools. And the developers of social media platforms and
Speaker 1: many video games and shopping sites, they are using the
Speaker 1: most sophisticated tools and knowledge of human nature and neurochemistry
Speaker 1: and psychology to control us, manipulate us, influence our behavior,
Speaker 1: and even predict our behavior. You know, I think that
Speaker 1: one of the most ask you one of the most
Speaker 1: alarming things that came out of the Facebook whistleblowers, right,
Speaker 1: the multiple reports and data that has been dumped, is
Speaker 1: how much they do know, how much they are aware
Speaker 1: of how social media platforms are changing body brain chemistry,
Speaker 1: on how much they are aware of what will trigger
Speaker 1: you to want to continue to stay on the device
Speaker 1: versus to put it down, and the desires to have
Speaker 1: you on there for as long as possible, because, as
Speaker 1: you know, was brilliantly said, when the platform is free,
Speaker 1: you're the product. So if you're the product, then you
Speaker 1: need to be consuming as much as possible. The more
Speaker 1: time that you're on, the more I can advertise to you, right,
Speaker 1: the more you will spend. What was the most shocking
Speaker 1: thing that you learned or heard, you know, during as
Speaker 1: we're unpacking the information out of Facebook and Instagram as
Speaker 1: it pertains to young people, I was not shocked at all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: as a psychologist, as someone who's worked with teams, I
Speaker 1: believe that that was all happening. And you know the
Speaker 1: power of what happened with the whistleblower is now we
Speaker 1: have the documents and the proof, and it's much harder
Speaker 1: to deny the destructive effect that these platforms and devices
Speaker 1: can have on individual teenagers and on society. So it
Speaker 1: wasn't a surprise to me. And that was so much
Speaker 1: the motivation for this book, because I don't think teens
Speaker 1: realize the extent to which they are being tracked and manipulated.
Speaker 1: You know, we all have a sense of, well, you
Speaker 1: don't have that much privacy, and they're kind of putting
Speaker 1: cookies on your device. But no, it's so much deeper
Speaker 1: than that. And I wanted to empower kids to fight back.
Speaker 1: I mean, teams don't like to be manipulated, and I
Speaker 1: think that teens are ripe for this type of information.
Speaker 1: I mean, between forty and fifty percent of all teams
Speaker 1: say they feel addicted to their phones. And and what
Speaker 1: does that addiction mean when when they say, when you
Speaker 1: say it, what do we mean when we're when we
Speaker 1: use the word addiction in that context that they can't
Speaker 1: control their use? Okay, you know that they are aware
Speaker 1: of negative or harmful consequences, but they're not able to
Speaker 1: turn that awareness into a behavioral change. And ninety percent
Speaker 1: of all teams say that too much screen time is
Speaker 1: a problem for their peers. And you know, again, four
Speaker 1: out of ten. Teams want to be able to unplug
Speaker 1: from time to time from their phones, So I think
Speaker 1: there is a receptivity there and I want to awaken
Speaker 1: their mindfulness so they under stand their screen scene. What
Speaker 1: is great about it and helpful to their growth and
Speaker 1: learning and connection with other people, and what is harmful
Speaker 1: and could actually be interfering with the development of their brain,
Speaker 1: their social skills, their autonomy, their street smarts. How does
Speaker 1: it interfere? And I love the fact that you listed
Speaker 1: all of those things. Let's go to the street smarts
Speaker 1: piece of that. How does a screen time interfere with
Speaker 1: that development of just understanding right and being socialized in
Speaker 1: the world around you. Because the phones let teens connect
Speaker 1: to their friends and their world from the bedroom, they
Speaker 1: don't go out as much, and they they're not getting
Speaker 1: drivers licenses, they're not going out in the city or
Speaker 1: wherever they live on their own. They're not dating as much,
Speaker 1: they're not volunteering as much. So there is a retraction
Speaker 1: of their independence, and adolescence is the primary time for
Speaker 1: becoming independent and developing those types of street smarts or
Speaker 1: skills for going out and about in the world. For teams,
Speaker 1: imagine if their GPS on the phone doesn't work, they'll
Speaker 1: be absolutely lost. How do they get from point eight
Speaker 1: to point B. So in that sense, it's making kids
Speaker 1: more dependent on their parents and more sheltered. They're essentially
Speaker 1: growing up more slowly. They're not developing empathy to the
Speaker 1: same degree as previous generations. So you put all this together,
Speaker 1: and I do see it having a major impact on
Speaker 1: the way kids are going to develop and their self
Speaker 1: confidence and their social skills. You know, it's so interesting
Speaker 1: that you say, then they're not they're not dating as
Speaker 1: much and not getting driver's license, you know, because we
Speaker 1: have these conversations too about the millennial and the you know,
Speaker 1: zillennial set, where one we're saying, oh, well, they're living
Speaker 1: at home longer because of student loan dead and the
Speaker 1: economy and all of these things. But I wonder too
Speaker 1: if what you are saying with regard to how they
Speaker 1: are being socialized or not is also playing a part
Speaker 1: into the larger picture of things, right that you know,
Speaker 1: you aren't having those same types of experiences and markers
Speaker 1: that young people teenagers had twenty thirty forty years ago. Right,
Speaker 1: It's an interesting way of looking at it that more
Speaker 1: people maybe staying at home because of economic and societal factors,
Speaker 1: but also they may be more fearful, like you're saying,
Speaker 1: of going out on their own and being independent if
Speaker 1: deep down they don't feel confident about their ability to
Speaker 1: navigate the world. Yeah. I can tell you that I
Speaker 1: have younger cousins, one that just turned twenty two and
Speaker 1: another one that is also in their mid twenties. But
Speaker 1: I will tell you that their childhood was so completely
Speaker 1: radically different from mine. Um, you know, I used to
Speaker 1: say to them, why you're not going to go out
Speaker 1: and go see your friends, go ride a bike? And
Speaker 1: this is when they were in middle school and high school.
Speaker 1: You're not you know, you're not going to sleepovers, You're
Speaker 1: not doing I don't you know, I don't understand. They
Speaker 1: would go to the mall see somebody from across, you know,
Speaker 1: from across the store that they would go to school with,
Speaker 1: and they would text them instead of actually going up
Speaker 1: to speak with them or saying, Hey, I'm going to
Speaker 1: go and hang out with this person. Part it was
Speaker 1: so it was bizarre for me to see for their
Speaker 1: for their parents, it was just like, I don't understand,
Speaker 1: why aren't you connecting, and that was the only way
Speaker 1: they knew was to shoot that Hey, I see you right,
Speaker 1: send an emoji. In a recent survey, and this did
Speaker 1: shock me, the number one preferred method for communicating amongst
Speaker 1: teens is texting Yeah. And the survey was given right
Speaker 1: before the pandemic. So maybe the experience of the pandemic,
Speaker 1: where kids you know, felt and experienced the absence of
Speaker 1: face to face communication, maybe if the survey were given again,
Speaker 1: face to face would take the number one spot. But
Speaker 1: I was shocked and very concerned about that. So of
Speaker 1: human communication is nonverbal, right, If it's happening through snaps
Speaker 1: and texting and you know, quick quick videos, you're missing
Speaker 1: out on so much. And I think that is one
Speaker 1: reason that we've seen the drop in empathy. People aren't
Speaker 1: getting the same clues in their social interactions. And so
Speaker 1: it's so interesting because I would think that because you're
Speaker 1: on a screen, and because essentially every device that we
Speaker 1: have is a small computer, that you are seeing more, right,
Speaker 1: You're seeing more not just in your own neighborhood, but
Speaker 1: you're seeing more of the world, right, and the ills
Speaker 1: and the pains and the societal you know, imbalances and injustices.
Speaker 1: Why isn't that provoking empathy? I think because empathy develops
Speaker 1: through human interaction primary early and a lot of what
Speaker 1: you're seeing on your screen is what they, you know,
Speaker 1: big tech wants you to see. Like seventy percent of
Speaker 1: the time people spend on YouTube is spent looking at
Speaker 1: YouTube's recommendations. You may have gone there to see a
Speaker 1: particular video yourself, but once you're there and you stay
Speaker 1: for hours, it's YouTube in the driver's seat. And that's why,
Speaker 1: you know, YouTube is viewed as a principal radicalization force
Speaker 1: in our culture. Wow, I never even thought about that,
Speaker 1: that you're not even going there to see what you
Speaker 1: want to see. You're going there and being shown what
Speaker 1: they want you to see, right they're really Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's all their choices. I mean, the menus you see
Speaker 1: on your screen when you go to a website, that's
Speaker 1: what the platform wants you to experience. Many times, you're
Speaker 1: probably on a site and you're looking for a different
Speaker 1: choice and it doesn't exist. They don't want to give
Speaker 1: you that choice, or it may exist, but you have
Speaker 1: to look in the tiny, tiny fine print at the
Speaker 1: bottom of the screen to click on it and cancel
Speaker 1: or do whatever it is you want to do. So,
Speaker 1: what are some of the ways that we're able that
Speaker 1: teens and all of us who are in fact addicted
Speaker 1: to our devices on a number in a number of ways, Alex,
Speaker 1: How do we take our power back? How do we
Speaker 1: start making mindful, thoughtful choices about what we're consuming. That's
Speaker 1: the key question, because I'm not hopeful that the tech
Speaker 1: industry or a dithering Congress is going to pave the
Speaker 1: way for solutions. So the first and most important thing
Speaker 1: is to become aware, to become mindful. And the first
Speaker 1: section in Slaying Digital Dragons presents readers with nine wacky
Speaker 1: but science based challenges for understanding their screen scene. So
Speaker 1: I present them with warning signs to see if they
Speaker 1: might recognize in themselves any indications that their use may
Speaker 1: be problematic. I asked them to think about how much
Speaker 1: time they're spending, how that time is apportioned, what triggers
Speaker 1: their use, what their screen habits are, and especially how
Speaker 1: they feel after going to certain apps. You know, we're
Speaker 1: just not thinking about these things. So that's like a
Speaker 1: first step in taking charge, taking control back, and then
Speaker 1: there's learning. So the second section of the book talks
Speaker 1: all about the specific ways in which big tech may
Speaker 1: harm your body and brain and privacy and psyche and
Speaker 1: relationships and future and life balance. And then the final
Speaker 1: section of the book is where you bring it all
Speaker 1: together and you can reset your digital life. It's a
Speaker 1: process I call giving yourself an app and deck. To me,
Speaker 1: what you do is you cut out the unhealthy aspects
Speaker 1: of your digital life and reset it so that it
Speaker 1: works for you and you have a healthier online offline balance.
Speaker 1: What is is? What is that healthy? Is there just
Speaker 1: a general if you're on your device for an hour,
Speaker 1: how long should you be off of it? Is there
Speaker 1: is there any scientific makeup? Or is it really about
Speaker 1: how we are feeling and that we should begin by
Speaker 1: checking in with how we are feeling pre and post usage. Well,
Speaker 1: those are good clues, and the time you spend isn't
Speaker 1: necessarily the key factor. You know, many families argue about
Speaker 1: how much time kids spend on their devices, and some
Speaker 1: parents think it's too much time, and other parents think
Speaker 1: it's way too much time. And the key though, is
Speaker 1: how are you spending the time? You know, six hours
Speaker 1: on a screen can be spent in so many different ways.
Speaker 1: Are you creating or are you vegetating. Are you passively
Speaker 1: you know, responding to material that's thrown at you on
Speaker 1: the screen, or are you actively engaged in learning and
Speaker 1: connecting and creating. Is there a healthy balance of the
Speaker 1: activities you're doing. Are the things you're doing making you
Speaker 1: feel depressed and lonely and insecure or are they making
Speaker 1: you feel proud and connected and productive. So you really
Speaker 1: have to look at the two factors together, the total
Speaker 1: amount of screen time and how it's being spent. I mean,
Speaker 1: that makes sense. It makes sense. You know. I can
Speaker 1: say that I catch myself more now and how much
Speaker 1: swiping I'm doing, how much looking and scrolling just mindlessly
Speaker 1: scrolling with a television on in the background, but still
Speaker 1: holding the hand the phone in your hand, and just
Speaker 1: you know, mindlessly scrolling. And I'm saying, I don't even
Speaker 1: know what I'm looking at, right, So then put it
Speaker 1: down and making those trying to make those small changes.
Speaker 1: But there is not a time that I take public transportation. Right,
Speaker 1: I'm on the subway in New York and I'm looking around.
Speaker 1: No one is looking up, not one part, you know,
Speaker 1: not one person. Everyone is looking down like this, walking
Speaker 1: along the street. Everyone is looking down like this. So
Speaker 1: it is about really re establishing mindfulness at a time
Speaker 1: when we've been able to be so mindless. Right. Sherry Turkle,
Speaker 1: who's an icon in this field, coined the phrase alone together,
Speaker 1: and I think it's so apt because, as you're saying,
Speaker 1: you can't be on any public transportation or an airport
Speaker 1: lounge or any public area and everyone is, you know,
Speaker 1: buried in their phone. And I can't help but connect
Speaker 1: that behavior that you know, disconnection from other people with
Speaker 1: the polarization and the hatred and the silos we're all
Speaker 1: living in today. I think you know these issues, and
Speaker 1: this book is so timely because you really can't come
Speaker 1: up with one aspect of being alive that isn't being
Speaker 1: affected by digital devices and social media and the fake
Speaker 1: news and disinformation that we're all exposed to online. I
Speaker 1: can agree more. This is a fantastic book. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for coming on, folks. The title of the
Speaker 1: book is Slaying Digital Dragons. Tips and Tools for protecting
Speaker 1: your Mind, Brain, psyche and thumbs from the Digital dark Side.
Speaker 1: Alex J. Packer, thank you so much for making the
Speaker 1: time to join woke f and have this really important conversation.
Speaker 1: We work on this show to bring people on that
Speaker 1: are about connecting us to our mindfulness in so many
Speaker 1: different ways, and this is definitely an important one. So
Speaker 1: we appreciate you, thank you for inviting me. It's been
Speaker 1: a pleasure. That is it for me today on Woke
Speaker 1: f As always power to the people and to all
Speaker 1: the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.