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Speaker 1: Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebane, a space where no

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Speaker 1: question is off limits and storylines become lifelines. The views

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Speaker 1: shared by our guests are meant to inform, entertain, and empower,

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Speaker 1: from the laughs to the lessons. Just remember tough times

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Speaker 1: don't last, but professional home girls do enjoy the show.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to Pretty Private, Isha Girl Ebina here and

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Speaker 2: I hope all is cute. How are you feeling out

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Speaker 2: their professional homegirls? How y't feeling? I ain't gonna hold

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Speaker 2: you your girl? Been feeling really good lately? Okay, you know,

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Speaker 2: lately I've been like really obsessing with my life and

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Speaker 2: what I wanted to look like over the next few years,

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Speaker 2: especially in two years because I'll be hitting a mouse stone.

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Speaker 2: So I've been having my head down. I'm like super

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Speaker 2: locked in, you know, just really create it and working

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Speaker 2: towards my goals like I normally do. But I don't know, lately,

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Speaker 2: I've just been like really like wanting to go even

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Speaker 2: super hard without bringing myself out again. But have you

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Speaker 2: ever like visualized something so clearly that it feels so real,

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Speaker 2: like you can actually see it, Like I feel like

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Speaker 2: lately I even just seeing or just probably receiving like

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Speaker 2: little downloads of what my life is about to look like.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's what's keeping me so excited, because y'all.

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Speaker 2: When I tell y'all, I can vividly see me traveling,

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Speaker 2: and I travel a lot already, but I can just

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Speaker 2: see what my home would look like, I can see

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Speaker 2: what my life will look like, and like, I'm just

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Speaker 2: like really excited, and I feel like that's my future

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Speaker 2: self and also just God telling me, like, come on, girl,

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Speaker 2: just keep going, keep going. You almost there self. Let

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Speaker 2: me know what y'all to. Email me at Hello at

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Speaker 2: the PSHG podcast dot com and let me know what

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Speaker 2: you've been working on or what you've been visualizing for yourself.

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Speaker 2: And also the funny thing is, I would love to

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Speaker 2: have someone on the show who interprets dreams or vision

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Speaker 2: because I'm just so fascinated by all of that. And

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Speaker 2: it's so funny because back in the day, I was

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Speaker 2: so close to interviewing a neurologist and because I'm just

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Speaker 2: so obsessed with the mind and I think the mind

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Speaker 2: is just so amazing. But obviously we couldn't lock in

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Speaker 2: a date, so maybe I spend the block on her

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Speaker 2: and see what's up, because I would love to have

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Speaker 2: her insight and for her to really break down the mind,

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Speaker 2: like especially when it comes to like trauma and like

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Speaker 2: serial killers and like things of that nature. Like I

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Speaker 2: would love to die to dive into that. So I

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Speaker 2: keep y'all posting, I know, So can we ke KEI

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Speaker 2: right quick? So y'all, y'all know, I had such a

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Speaker 2: hard time letting go of the name, let alone the

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Speaker 2: theme song, y'all, because I just love the original theme song.

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Speaker 2: I ain't gonna lie y'all this new one. I was

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Speaker 2: listening to last week's episode, and baby the way I

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Speaker 2: was bopping my head, I said, Okay, now, like I

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Speaker 2: really really really am enjoying this rebrand, Like the rebrand

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Speaker 2: is making me so happy, and I just love the

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Speaker 2: fact that you all are still emailing me, leaving comments

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Speaker 2: on Instagram, hitting me up because some of y'all got

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Speaker 2: my number, child, and just telling me how much y'all

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Speaker 2: really love the theme song and just the rebrand overall.

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Speaker 2: So thank you, think you, thank you, Like I think

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Speaker 2: I could do a little work too, you know what

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Speaker 2: I'm saying. Okay, So on this week's episode, y'all really

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Speaker 2: enjoyed Part one with Madison. I'm like, super ossessed with Madison.

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Speaker 2: She's obsessed with me, So I cannot wait for you

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Speaker 2: all to hear Part two because we take the conversation

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Speaker 2: even deeper. Madison and I talk about her relationship with

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Speaker 2: her father before he was murdered and a complex reality

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Speaker 2: of interviewing close friends and family, some of whom are

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Speaker 2: actually suspects in his unsolved case. Okay. We also explore

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Speaker 2: what closure really looks like when justice still feels out

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Speaker 2: of reach. Madison also shares her thoughts on Time, which

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Speaker 2: it was very interesting, and she talks about how it

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Speaker 2: moves and how it weighs on us and how always

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Speaker 2: shapes the way we grieve, investigate, and just overall heal.

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Speaker 2: So I know we are just getting started with season three, y'all,

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Speaker 2: but hands down, my conversation with Madison has been thus

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Speaker 2: far one of my favorite episodes in season three. And

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Speaker 2: I'm saying that because I got fifteen episodes ready to go.

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Speaker 2: Your girl is not playing. I'm not trying to get

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Speaker 2: burnt out again, so I'm like, let me bash your

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Speaker 2: court and get ahead of the program. Okay, But I say,

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Speaker 2: y'all to say get ready because I'm solving my father's murder.

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Speaker 2: Part two starts. Now, what was your relationship like with

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Speaker 2: him before he passed away.

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Speaker 3: We were close.

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Speaker 4: I didn't live with him full time, but I he

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Speaker 4: was like two and a half hours away, so I

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Speaker 4: was like visiting and seeing him. He would come down

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Speaker 4: and see me. I live with my mom but and

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Speaker 4: my grandma, but he would come down and I would

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Speaker 4: go up. I was actually meant to spend the following week.

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Speaker 3: With my dad.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, that was crazy too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so we were supposed to.

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Speaker 4: So he was killed on a Thursday, and like that

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Speaker 4: weekend was supposed to be kind of like the swap,

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Speaker 4: and I was supposed to go up stay with him

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Speaker 4: for a week and potentially longer. I mean it was summertime,

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Speaker 4: so like sometimes I'd be like I want to say,

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Speaker 4: and like I'm with my sister and whatever, But like

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Speaker 4: I was meant to be there for the week with

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Speaker 4: my dad. It had already been coordinated organized, like everything

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Speaker 4: was in place for me to go there. And obviously

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Speaker 4: that didn't happen.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, and then you discovered that your dad was

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Speaker 2: a drug dealer that turned who turned into an informant

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Speaker 2: and I thought it was funny because you was like

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Speaker 2: somebody was like, ye, he was a voluntary informant, and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, who s wants to be a voluntary informant?

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Speaker 3: Like right, yeah, what does that even really mean?

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Speaker 4: I you know, you're you're an informant because they were

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Speaker 4: about to get you for something and you you know,

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Speaker 4: don't want to go to prison or do time or

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Speaker 4: you know, whatever it is, or pay the fine or whatever.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, I mean my dad was a victim of again,

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Speaker 4: a very dark system that exploits mostly black people into

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Speaker 4: doing police bidding and getting killed because the police don't

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Speaker 4: want to put themselves in the line of fire of

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Speaker 4: like going after these drug dealers, so they just pit

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Speaker 4: each other, them against each other, and absolutely, you know,

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Speaker 4: use them as sort of this shield and if they die, it's.

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Speaker 3: Fine, it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 4: There's this there's this term that they use within police

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Speaker 4: departments across the country called misdemeanor murder, and it's used

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Speaker 4: for when drug dealers kill other drug dealers.

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Speaker 3: Or murderer murderers or whatever.

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Speaker 4: And it's sort of used to like say, when someone

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Speaker 4: is killed that isn't useful to society. They call it

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Speaker 4: a misdemeanor murder because the person who did it is

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Speaker 4: probably never going to go to jail or get time

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Speaker 4: for the murder because the police don't care enough to

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Speaker 4: spend resources to catch that person because in their mind, well,

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Speaker 4: they took care of someone else for us. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 4: it's a commonly used term. They also use like NHI

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Speaker 4: no human involved killing. So they really treat these people

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Speaker 4: like they're not people at all.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Damn. So when you learned all this stuff about

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Speaker 2: your father, did that change how you how you viewed him?

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Speaker 2: Kind of?

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Speaker 4: But in like the opposite way, Like it may maybe

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Speaker 4: would make you think I was like, damn, my god sucked,

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Speaker 4: But I was like damn, Like what a multifaceted god?

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Speaker 3: Right, Like, oh my God, Like.

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Speaker 4: Because I had no idea that this was going on,

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Speaker 4: So like he was really able to like still be

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Speaker 4: a good dad do all this stuff. So I like, wow,

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Speaker 4: like he really was like a multitasker. Oh maybe that's

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Speaker 4: where I get it from. So yeah, I mean it

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Speaker 4: was like very interesting to find out, of course, and it.

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Speaker 3: Makes you question a lot of things.

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Speaker 4: I Mean I'm like, Mom, what the hell were you

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Speaker 4: doing with like a drug dealing? I like what is

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Speaker 4: going on, but you know, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 4: it's like, that's my family, that's my dad. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: it definitely had me thinking about a lot of different

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Speaker 4: things and a lot of different aspects of you know,

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Speaker 4: what my life would have been like with my.

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Speaker 3: Dad, what would have happened? Would you know what would

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Speaker 3: have been?

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Speaker 4: And I'll never know, And it's it's sad, it's unfortunate,

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Speaker 4: it's frustrating sometimes, but it's nice in a way that

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Speaker 4: I get to have this opportunity now to kind of

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Speaker 4: get to know my dad and learn about him and

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Speaker 4: learn about, you know, what kind of friend he was,

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Speaker 4: and what kind of person he was, and what he

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Speaker 4: was doing with his spare time, and.

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Speaker 3: You know, when he wasn't being a dad, what he

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Speaker 3: was up to. And I do.

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Speaker 4: Think that my dad had really good intentions with what

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Speaker 4: he was doing, and I think his priority and every

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Speaker 4: decision he made always really tied back to, like, I

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Speaker 4: want to build a better life for my children.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and.

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Speaker 4: I just think that when you look at it from

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Speaker 4: that perspective, it really changes the way that you think

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Speaker 4: about drug dealers in general. You know, I definitely have

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Speaker 4: built sort of an empathy for people who are in

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Speaker 4: that lifestyle and doing that work now because of this,

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Speaker 4: And you know, it doesn't make it right. And I

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Speaker 4: don't justify what my dad was doing by any means.

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Speaker 4: You know, I think that drugs are really dangerous and

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Speaker 4: responsible for you know, overdoses, and people are dying every

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Speaker 4: day from like you know, drug deals just going really south.

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Speaker 4: And I don't necessarily think that that's like a great

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Speaker 4: noble career by any stretch, But I do have an

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Speaker 4: understanding now of kind of that world and what happens

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Speaker 4: behind closed doors and why that's going on. And it's

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Speaker 4: a lot more systemic than it appears to be on

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Speaker 4: the surface. But yeah, I've enjoyed getting to know my

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Speaker 4: dad in my late twenties.

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Speaker 3: Through the lens of you know, his friends and family.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I also thought it was kind of intuitive

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Speaker 2: that he knew that. It felt like he was mentally

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Speaker 2: preparing himself for dulf, like he knew it was coming.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I think he my dad was someone who was

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Speaker 4: so paranoid that it was almost psychic in.

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Speaker 2: A way.

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Speaker 4: Where I don't know if he manifested it or if

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Speaker 4: he just knew, but yeah, I think he recognized the

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Speaker 4: life that he was sort of born into and then

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Speaker 4: consequently the choices he had made, and he knew his

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Speaker 4: fate was written on the wall, and it was just

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Speaker 4: a though.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Now another part of the story where I was like, Madison,

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Speaker 2: what are we doing here? Is when you was telling

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Speaker 2: the story about your dad when he ran a bar

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Speaker 2: and it was sex workers upstairs, and Madame Marie she

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Speaker 2: used to sell the babies of those sex workers who

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Speaker 2: didn't want to keep them, and she was selling the

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Speaker 2: babies for like twenty k And I was like, where

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Speaker 2: does she get this from?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's an old like I guess, rumor through

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Speaker 4: this town. This woman, Madame Marie, she was based in

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Speaker 4: Philadelphia and she she owned and operated this house where

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Speaker 4: there were sex workers on one side and this sort

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Speaker 4: of illegal adoption ring on the other and one that

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Speaker 4: is crazy, the sex workers if they ever got pregnant,

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Speaker 4: she then you know, they were required to remain clean

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Speaker 4: so that they could have healthy babies. And so they

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Speaker 4: met other side of the house where they had to

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Speaker 4: remain clean, and they were you know, eating well and

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Speaker 4: doing all the things that you need to do when

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Speaker 4: you're pregnant to have a healthy baby, and yeah, it's

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Speaker 4: I've never been able to sort of verify any of

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Speaker 4: that as far as like, I don't know who Madam

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Speaker 4: Murray is. I don't have any sort of adoption paperwork. Obviously,

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Speaker 4: this was all very under the table, so I don't

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Speaker 4: know if that would have even existed, right, But I've

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Speaker 4: heard that from that story has been been told to

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Speaker 4: me by several people, including the police. My mom heard

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Speaker 4: it from directly from my dad. The police knew about this.

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Speaker 4: It was just this very weird sort of story that's

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Speaker 4: attached to my dad's murder and just continued to be

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Speaker 4: passed down. And the details are murky, and you know,

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Speaker 4: unsure of if Shane, my brother, who was part of

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Speaker 4: this sort of program, was taken home with the family

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Speaker 4: and then retrieved, or if he ever left the hospital

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Speaker 4: with them at all, or if Dinnan kept the baby

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Speaker 4: on her and didn't let him go, or if they

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Speaker 4: didn't want him because he was born addicted to drugs

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Speaker 4: and Shane Bill has a lot of mental health issues

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Speaker 4: as a result of being born in this condition, and

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Speaker 4: so it's very unclear kind of what went down in

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Speaker 4: that moment and when that was happening. But everyone that

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Speaker 4: I've spoken to, it's the one story, weirdly, that has

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Speaker 4: remained consistent between everyone's retelling of this. A lot of

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Speaker 4: details changed person to person about a lot of things,

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Speaker 4: and the one thing that has remained really consistent is

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Speaker 4: this Madame Marie story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean, and that's a whole another story

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Speaker 2: on his own.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, oh yeah, that's happening in two thousand and

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Speaker 4: two and happening so underground. You know, I can only

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Speaker 4: imagine how sophisticated those houses and systems are out in

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Speaker 4: twenty five and how underground they are.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, it is. Again it goes back to like

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Speaker 3: this is so much bigger than.

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Speaker 4: My dad, And is there a world where like someone

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Speaker 4: comes forward and is like I worked for Madame Marie

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Speaker 4: or I know who that is, or I she's still

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Speaker 4: doing this and this is what's going on.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's something she's still alive.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Wow, God bless your brother man, because I can only

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Speaker 2: imagine how that how that's messing with him. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: are you clothes?

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Speaker 3: We've never met.

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Speaker 4: We are friends on Facebook, we talk sometimes, but we've

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Speaker 4: never met in person before.

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Speaker 2: Do you want to meet him?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm open to that for sure. He does have

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Speaker 4: a lot of stuffy's going on, so yeah, but of

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Speaker 4: course I'm like, very open to I would love to

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Speaker 4: meet all my siblings.

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Speaker 3: I've only met one.

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Speaker 2: Yes, your sister, how many simple as you have? Because

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Speaker 2: I know your daddy loves love him?

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Speaker 3: Some women to I have.

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Speaker 4: So Shane's my younger brother, and I have four older

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Speaker 4: siblings outside of Alissa, so four older than both of us.

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Speaker 4: One of them, i've heard is has passed away. I

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Speaker 4: think during COVID there was some potentially like illness complication

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Speaker 4: situation there. And then the other three are still alive

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Speaker 4: and I haven't met them before.

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Speaker 2: I'm surprised I haven't linked up yet. Yeah, it's complicated. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I guess I was Gonnay. I can only imagine how

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Speaker 2: complicated and challenging it is.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, my older brother, I met his daughter, so she

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Speaker 4: and I are are friendly.

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Speaker 3: She used to live in LA so we met up.

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Speaker 4: It's funny she's technically my niece, but she's old.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, old is your brother. He's got to be

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Speaker 3: forty late forty.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, Yeah, this is the one that was in

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Speaker 2: jail right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, his daughter.

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Speaker 2: We've met.

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Speaker 4: We just saw each other like less than a month ago.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, she is really cool and it's funny because

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Speaker 4: she's like, we just tell each other where people were cousins,

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Speaker 4: because it's like complicated to be like, oh yeah right

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Speaker 4: my niece, right right, But yeah, so it's pretty funny.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, she and I are cool and that's fun.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, but I've never met him before. We talked before, obviously,

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Speaker 4: but we've never met.

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Speaker 2: What's up, y'all? It's schagara ebn a here, and be

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Speaker 2: sure to follow me on Instagram and TikTok at pretty

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Speaker 2: private podcasts, and don't forget to subscribe to my YouTube

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Speaker 2: channel at the Professional Homegirl. Now let's get back to

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Speaker 2: the show. What do they think about what you're doing?

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Speaker 4: Joel and his sister my sister too, but sister like

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Speaker 4: full sister because they share my dad and the mom.

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Speaker 3: I don't think they're super excited about it.

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Speaker 4: My oldest sister, Kathy is pretty enthusiastic, but she's like

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Speaker 4: probably this, like she's like older, she's I was gonna

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Speaker 4: say the same age as my mom, but that wouldn't

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Speaker 4: make any sense. I think she's like like ten years

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Speaker 4: younger than my mom, so she's like older.

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Speaker 3: I mean, she's like in her fifties.

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Speaker 4: And like I don't know if she like fully is like,

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Speaker 4: you know, understanding, Like like my grandma doesn't know what

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Speaker 4: a podcast is, so like I don't know if understand.

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Speaker 3: But she's like yeah, like good for you.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, so they're like you know, they're they're funnily enough.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Now another red flag that I know is that you

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Speaker 2: mention is that they didn't tape off the house or anything,

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Speaker 2: like anybody was able to walk freely, and that's I'm like, damn,

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Speaker 2: what if the police is really involved in this because

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Speaker 2: I was assumed they're doing a crime scene, especially you know,

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Speaker 2: with a person a dead body being there, Like why

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Speaker 2: did y'all not tape it off and do y'all do

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Speaker 2: dialing just to figure out what was going on? Like

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Speaker 2: how is it even possible?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I think about this a lot.

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Speaker 4: I think it's at the in the very best case scenario,

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Speaker 4: it's horrible negligence and at every worst case scenario, it's

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Speaker 4: protecting their involvement, and neither is a good thing. And

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Speaker 4: I look at it like, this is how I see it,

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Speaker 4: and I'm not you know, I'm not in charge of

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Speaker 4: our justice system, so I can see it however I want.

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Speaker 4: And this is how I say, right, I see it

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Speaker 4: like if my friend commits a murder and I drive

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Speaker 4: the getaway car, I go to jail too. They get

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Speaker 4: twenty years, I get ten, Like I'm an accomplice because

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Speaker 4: I helped them get away with murder. If police don't

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Speaker 4: tape off a scene, don't swipe for fingerprints, don't look

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Speaker 4: for a suspect, don't do anything really, essentially, they're helping

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Speaker 4: someone get away with murder. I'm not considered an accomplice

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Speaker 4: now in murder because they've now allowed someone to walk free.

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Speaker 3: And you know, that is just how I see it.

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Speaker 4: I know that's not you know, the reality and of

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Speaker 4: how the world sees it and the system sees it.

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Speaker 4: But to me, it's no different than driving the getaway car.

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Speaker 2: And it also makes me feel like, this is how

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Speaker 2: you view people.

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Speaker 4: That look like I mean, there's a reason why they

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Speaker 4: didn't tape off the scene, and it's not because they're stupid.

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Speaker 4: You know, they're they're dumb, but they're not stupid. And

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Speaker 4: you know the first thing you learn is tape off

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Speaker 4: a scene at a suspected homicide fact nobody can enter

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Speaker 4: do that is wildly suspicious.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, now have you and your sister what was that

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Speaker 2: conversation like the one who was there? Do y'all still

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Speaker 2: talk or are y'all close? We still talk?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we aren't like super close, but we talk quite

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Speaker 4: a bit. I mean i'd say like every couple of

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Speaker 4: weeks we're like talking or we're sharing like articles or

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Speaker 4: oh did you see this and what about that?

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Speaker 3: You thought about this? So yeah, we're we're still in

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Speaker 3: touch for sure. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Now, as you dug deeper into your father's case, several

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Speaker 2: names kept coming up. So you have Omar who is

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Speaker 2: your cousin, Daryl who's an associate of your father, and Rico,

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Speaker 2: who is his nephew. So Omar was a key witness,

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Speaker 2: but he kept changing his story under oath. So what

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Speaker 2: do you think he's hiding? Because I really do feel like,

378
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Speaker 2: Ohmar knows exactly who did it. But I'm like, what

379
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Speaker 2: if you don't want to be involved and just don't

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Speaker 2: say nothing at all exactly?

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Speaker 4: And that's what it's so funny to he is just

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Speaker 4: like it's almost like he loves inserting himself in the

383
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Speaker 4: middle of this. It's so crazy. And once again back

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Speaker 4: to the police. Is like, really weird for me is

385
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Speaker 4: that they never worked him as a suspect. They were

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Speaker 4: instructed by their higher ups to only work him as

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Speaker 4: a witness. And so I think that gave Omar this

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Speaker 4: sort of confidence that he was never going to be

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Speaker 4: considered a suspect, which then gave him this authority to

390
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Speaker 4: like kind of run his mouth because he could because

391
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Speaker 4: he knew They're never going to work me as a suspect,

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Speaker 4: so it doesn't matter what I say or what I do.

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Speaker 3: And so I think that is really bizarre.

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Speaker 2: And now we have Rico, who's your father's nephew, who

395
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Speaker 2: was serving a life sentence after your father's national him,

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Speaker 2: which led Rico to get charged with a Rico And

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Speaker 2: I'm like, when I was listening to y'all conversation, I

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Speaker 2: kind of felt like, damn, Like, no matter what he

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Speaker 2: I feel like he really still love your father.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that the Rico interview was probably the most surprising

401
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Speaker 4: for me, right I. I I left feeling.

402
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Speaker 3: Really weird, like very conflicted and confused.

403
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Speaker 2: You definitely feel from a listener's point of view. I

404
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 2: feel like you felt different with his interview compared to

405
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Speaker 2: like with.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah I did. I felt yeah, And maybe there's

407
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Speaker 3: this element of.

408
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Speaker 4: Like the blood level right or related, And I think

409
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Speaker 4: that was really and there's so much, you know, more

410
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Speaker 4: of a that I didn't even put because it was long.

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Speaker 3: We talked for a long time, but.

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Speaker 2: He felt comfortable with you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: But then you know, it goes back to like Rico

415
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Speaker 4: got that Rico charge when he was young. I mean,

416
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Speaker 4: there was a lot of spec elation he was taking

417
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Speaker 4: the fall for someone else, because how could this like

418
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Speaker 4: nineteen year old really be the ringleader of this group.

419
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Speaker 4: A lot of people on the other side were saying, no,

420
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Speaker 4: he is like a charmer.

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Speaker 3: He's smart.

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Speaker 4: He is capable of leading like a group of fifty

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Speaker 4: drug dealers ranging from age sixteen to fifty five, because

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Speaker 4: he really smart.

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Speaker 3: And you know, that was a common.

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Speaker 4: Theme among people I talked to to get background on

427
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 4: Rico was Rico's tactful, he's smart. He knows how to

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Speaker 4: how to live and how to play the game of life.

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Speaker 4: And so going into that interview kind of with that

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Speaker 4: knowledge and then hearing him talk, it's very disorienting. Because

431
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 4: you're like, what's real and what's not? What's you know,

432
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,439
Speaker 4: real raw emotion and what's you trying to cover your ass?

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Speaker 4: I don't know, and I can't really decipher because you're

434
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Speaker 4: so good at this. And it was very it was

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Speaker 4: very jarring, and it was very scary because he was

436
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Speaker 4: saying a lot of the right things.

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Speaker 2: He was and you said, my Grandma's like, I mean,

438
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 2: he knew what to say, and it made sense why

439
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 2: for years a lot of my family members were like, oh,

440
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 2: we love Rico, Like we love him.

441
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:26,360
Speaker 3: We go to his house all the time.

442
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 4: He has us over, he throws parties, cookouts, he has

443
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 4: the kids over, they swim in his pool, like we

444
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 4: love him. And I'm I'm like, oh, I get it,

445
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 4: Like I get it, but.

446
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:41,879
Speaker 3: Is it all real? I don't know. I don't know.

447
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And even when he was saying how like

448
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 2: he's proud of you, and he was like somebody in

449
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 2: the family gotta make it. And I was just like, damn,

450
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 2: like this is a lot. H this is a lot.

451
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 2: And then you have your conversation with Daryl. He reached

452
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 2: out to you after listening to your podcast and looking back, like,

453
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 2: how do you feel about that conversation because I feel

454
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 2: like Daryl was I don't know, Darrol just don't sit

455
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 2: right with me, because then later on we found out

456
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 2: he's in jail bragging about killing somehow.

457
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, my conversation with Daryl was really crazy too.

458
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 2: But and you was really going, I can your emotions,

459
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 2: oh man, Yeah, but I felt your energy.

460
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 4: I was nervous. I was very was my first time

461
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 4: and that was in person, you know. With Rico, we

462
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 4: were on the phone, so it was a little bit

463
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 4: different too. We didn't get to like see each other,

464
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 4: you know. With Daryl, it was I had spent all

465
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 4: day in the library, so I was sitting in the

466
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 4: room we were in for like most of the day.

467
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 4: And then he met up with me in the afternoon,

468
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 4: and gosh, it was so crazy seeing him in person.

469
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 4: I mean, this is someone I've like seen mugshots off

470
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 4: for like six years. I've been like looking up for

471
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 4: a long time. I've been doing a lot of research

472
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 4: on and and then we had, you know, exchanged some messages,

473
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 4: so to meet in person, it was like, it It's

474
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 4: just great.

475
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 3: It was great, and.

476
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 2: He felt it, so he knew you were nervous.

477
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was really really crazy, and he was also

478
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,479
Speaker 4: very you know, manipulative in a way where it was

479
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 4: like super charming.

480
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 3: And eager to help.

481
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 4: I think that's sort of them of a lot of

482
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 4: these people, is like they wanted to seem like they

483
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 4: want me to find out what happened, so that they.

484
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 2: Right, like they y'all in the same Yeah, we're.

485
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 3: We're doing the same thing.

486
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 4: And Rico kind of did the same thing too, where

487
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 4: he was like, you know, I want you to like

488
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 4: be successful and do the thing, and it's like.

489
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,360
Speaker 2: Okay, Grandma would.

490
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 4: Be yeah, like okay, like I don't whatever. So yeah,

491
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 4: it was very interesting. But yeah, the Daryl stuff was

492
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 4: weird because I got really excited when he first reached

493
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 4: out because he was like, oh, yeah, everyone in prisons

494
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,120
Speaker 4: talking about your podcast, and I was like, hey, if

495
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 4: I'm gonna have an audience, like at least people literally

496
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 4: can't go anywhere, they have to sit there and listen.

497
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 3: That's why I'm the Yeah, so I was like, oh, yeah,

498
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 3: I guess that's good.

499
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 4: Right.

500
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

501
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 4: It was just funny because I was like, oh interesting,

502
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 4: but yeah, I was. I was really eager to meet

503
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 4: up with him because again, I mean, he was the

504
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 4: police's main suspect. So I thought, in my mind at

505
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 4: least he'd have some info, and he gave a lot

506
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 4: of context and stuff, but he obviously didn't talk a

507
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 4: lot about the murder because he says he wasn't there

508
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 4: and he didn't do it and blah blah blah. But yeah,

509
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 4: it's really interesting how he reached out to me, And

510
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 4: you know, I had the rico kind of came to

511
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 4: me too through his daughter, who reached out and said like, Hey,

512
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 4: if you're going to talk about my dad, like my

513
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 4: dad said, he wants to talk to you.

514
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 3: So he kind of came to me also.

515
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,959
Speaker 4: But then I, you know, had to be like on

516
00:27:58,040 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 4: top of him as well to be like, hey, let's

517
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 4: do this.

518
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 2: Right, because I feel like he was a little hesitant.

519
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 3: In Yeah, yeah, for sure.

520
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 4: I mean, and I didn't hear from him until a

521
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 4: lot of episodes were out, and that what he didn't

522
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 4: reach out to me until I talked to Darryl.

523
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 3: Once he found out I talked to.

524
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 4: Darryl is when I heard from his daughter, that was like, Oh,

525
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 4: my dad's going to talk to you.

526
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 3: So that was really interesting.

527
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 4: And kind of says a lot given the context that

528
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 4: Rico was very adamant he knows who did it and

529
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 4: just wasn't going to tell me the fact. His timing

530
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,439
Speaker 4: of reaching out to me was like, Okay, is this

531
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 4: a clue?

532
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 3: Is this a sign? Are you trying to say something?

533
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 3: So it's very interesting.

534
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 2: We're almost finished. But after all the conversations that you have,

535
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 2: who do you feel like is being the most honest

536
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 2: with you? Because I feel like, from a listener's perspective,

537
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 2: and I can only imagine how you feel, I feel

538
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 2: like it would be so hard to trust anybody, even yourself.

539
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, no, it's true. I don't really trust anyone.

540
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 4: I think the person that's the most honest with me

541
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 4: right now is my sister. And I think she's you know,

542
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 4: she's super real about what she does and doesn't remember

543
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 4: when she has a memory pop up that she couldn't

544
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 4: remember before she reaches out, She's like, oh, you said

545
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 4: this on the show and that reminded me of this

546
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 4: thing I forgot about. I do remember hearing that name,

547
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 4: or I do remember hearing something.

548
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 2: Wow.

549
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 4: So I think she's the most honest. And outside of that,

550
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't really trust anyone.

551
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 2: So do you feel like your dad's murder was an

552
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 2: inside job, whether it was a cover up by the

553
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 2: town or your family.

554
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 4: I don't think that someone accidentally gets shot in the

555
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 4: head with one gun, shot at a doorstep, with no

556
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 4: robbery involved my dad. Nothing from my dad's house was stolen.

557
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 4: They didn't even enter the house. They went there, they

558
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 4: shot him, they left. I think that it was absolutely intentional.

559
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 4: I think any police officer that says, oh, they saw

560
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 4: him reach for a gun and they did it out

561
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 4: of self defense because they thought.

562
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 3: They were going to get shot at is all.

563
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 4: You're on someone else's doorstep, Yeah, and you're scared you're

564
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 4: going to get shot, so you kill someone you're at

565
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 4: their house.

566
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 2: You didn't take nothing, nothing.

567
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 3: Wow, they didn't even enter the home.

568
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 4: They kicked the door in, and from outside of the

569
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 4: doorway they shot my dad and then they left. So

570
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 4: with one kill shot. I mean, it wasn't like they

571
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 4: were like boom boom boom, and.

572
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 3: The one of them.

573
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 2: That's how you know it was personal.

574
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 4: It was very deeply personal, and it was someone who

575
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 4: knew exactly what they were doing and they were calm,

576
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 4: cool and collected enough to get it and leave. Yeah,

577
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 4: So I think it was absolutely intentional. I think this

578
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 4: was planned. I think there were a lot of people

579
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 4: involved in the planning and execution of this.

580
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 3: And a lot more people involved in the cover up.

581
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 2: You feel like your father's life would have mattered more

582
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 2: if he wasn't a black man, what a criminal record? Oh?

583
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 4: Absolutely, undoubtedly. I think this case would have been solved

584
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 4: within months.

585
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

586
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 2: Does it ever feel like Tom is just standing steel

587
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 2: while you're just trying to figure all this out?

588
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 4: No, it feels like time is moving very fast and

589
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 4: I am losing all of it and I am never

590
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 4: going to get these moments back in my life. And

591
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 4: that is deeply frustrated because I can tell I'm missing

592
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 4: you know, I think every part of our life is important,

593
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 4: and I think we learned that during COVID, right when

594
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 4: it was sort of like, who's at a greater loss?

595
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 4: Is it the kids graduating high school right now? Is

596
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 4: it the kids graduating college? Is it the kids losing

597
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 4: all their twenties? Is it that people with all their thirties?

598
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 4: What about the people in their forties? Who's losing the

599
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 4: most for these four years of COVID? And the reality

600
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 4: was everyone, everybody, All of those moments are really important,

601
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 4: and so when you take that out, you're missing a

602
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 4: really big chunk of your life. And so there wasn't

603
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 4: anyone sort of at a greater loss. It was just

604
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 4: everyone was losing. And I feel like that right now

605
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 4: with this, where it's like time continues to move. I

606
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 4: started looking into this when I was twenty four years old.

607
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 3: That's when I called get the case files.

608
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 4: And I turned thirty in two months, and so to me,

609
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 4: it's like time has just moved so fast, and I

610
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 4: wish so badly that I could be twenty four again

611
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 4: and start this last six years over without this weight

612
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 4: and go how.

613
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 3: Amazing and fun would my life have been? How amazing

614
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 3: and fun would my twenties have been?

615
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 4: If I wasn't spending all of my time, energy and

616
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 4: money investigating my dad's murder. What would I've spent one

617
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 4: hundred K on? What would I have done? Where would

618
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 4: I have gone? What would I have for my future?

619
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 3: Like? What would my life have looked like?

620
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 4: And it just feels like time just keeps spinning and

621
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 4: it's going light years faster than I ever thought it could.

622
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 4: And I've missed out on all of these things.

623
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 2: Damn, when I see you I'm gonna pull up to

624
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 2: your show. I'm gonna give you a hug, Madison, because

625
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 2: I feel your energy and it's a lot, but I'm

626
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 2: telling you it's it's bigger than you your father, Like

627
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 2: you've really helping a lot of people out. So we're

628
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 2: gonna get this go fund me link popping. We're gonna

629
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 2: support you because I feel like I feel like you

630
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 2: about to break and I don't want that to happen

631
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 2: for you, Madison. So we're gonna get you together, and

632
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 2: then I'm gonna buy you a camera going Amazon, get

633
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 2: your camera for your house, because my girl is stressed,

634
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 2: like I can tell, like, Okay, we almost finished our promise.

635
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 2: But how has your view of death and legacy evolved

636
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 2: over the years?

637
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 4: Oh, oh gosh, I mean I think that I I mean,

638
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 4: I'm not afraid of death anymore.

639
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:08,280
Speaker 2: Clearly, tell.

640
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,240
Speaker 4: I think my my idea of legacy is really shifted

641
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 4: because I think that you know, we all well, I

642
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 4: don't know.

643
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 3: I think we try to or I try to.

644
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 4: Build a life that's like worthy of legacy, right And

645
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 4: and it's funny because it's like as if that's in

646
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,959
Speaker 4: our control, because if it were my dad's legacy would

647
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 4: be completely different than it is now.

648
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 3: I think the.

649
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,359
Speaker 4: Legacy is in the hands of the people that you're

650
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:41,760
Speaker 4: around and who is left behind.

651
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 3: And I think the only thing you can.

652
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,879
Speaker 4: Do is be so good to people that you they

653
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 4: have no choice but to like really carry on your memory.

654
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 4: You don't decide what your legacy is. It's really up

655
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 4: to other people. And I think that's something that like

656
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 4: is really stuck with me because we think that like,

657
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 4: you work hard and you do all these things, and

658
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 4: that's the legacy.

659
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 3: You leave behind.

660
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,720
Speaker 4: But if everyone is talking about it and it didn't

661
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 4: really do anything for anyone, then it really doesn't matter.

662
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 3: And yeah, I think.

663
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,240
Speaker 4: That's sort of how this is all evolved and changed

664
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 4: because twenty years ago, like I don't think anyone would

665
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 4: have thought my dad would have any sort of legacy,

666
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 4: And now it feels like, you know, I'd love to

667
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 4: see laws changed with his name on it and like

668
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 4: things done in the name of J. C. McGee, And

669
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 4: it's like that's a legacy and that wasn't because he

670
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 4: did or didn't do anything. It's because the people who

671
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 4: were left behind did something for him. And so I

672
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 4: hope that like I'm building a community of people that

673
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 4: if you know, one day I'm not here, they do

674
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 4: something on my behalf, because really they carry the legacy.

675
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 3: It's not up to us, right.

676
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 2: Do you ever feel your day it?

677
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 4: Yeah? I feel I have, Like it's so weird. I

678
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 4: think there's a ghost in my apartment. My friend hates

679
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,720
Speaker 4: when I talk about those. He thinks it's so creepy.

680
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 4: But I'm like, oh, don't worry, it's just my dad.

681
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 4: And he's like what and I'm like, oh, yeah, like

682
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 4: he's in the other room and fine.

683
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: Yeah.

684
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 4: I had a medium actually come to my apartment a

685
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 4: couple of years ago.

686
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 2: We got to get a movie, Madison, We gotta get

687
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 2: a movie.

688
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 3: I was just like, what is so crazy?

689
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 4: I It started with my cat was so my desk.

690
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 4: So this is like my second room and my apartment

691
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 4: and my desk. My cat was like over on this

692
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 4: side and she was like staring like above my desk,

693
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,720
Speaker 4: but like into the air, like she was like looking

694
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 4: at there was nothing there, and she was like staring.

695
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 3: And at the time, oh, they're still here.

696
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 4: But my dad's case files were under my desk, and

697
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 4: I kept being like, that's so weird.

698
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 3: Was she looking at and she was doing it for

699
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 3: like a long time.

700
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 4: And my cat's pretty crazy, like she's a Bengal, she

701
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 4: like runs around, she's psycho, and she was super calm,

702
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,399
Speaker 4: and she was like reaching for something above my desk.

703
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 4: I mean, it was like so crazy. And she did

704
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 4: it for long enough I like videoed it. It was

705
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 4: like a two and a half minute long video. It's

706
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 4: so crazy. So I sent it to my friend and

707
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 4: she was like, Oh, there's like a spirit in your apartment,

708
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 4: like she's looking at something.

709
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 3: And I was like, Oh, that's kind of weird.

710
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 4: So I called this girl I'd never really talked to before,

711
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 4: but I had her info from another friend, and she

712
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 4: knew nothing about my dad. The podcast wasn't out yet,

713
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 4: you couldn't google anything, and I was just like, hey, Kelsey,

714
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 4: like wondering if you could like come over to my

715
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 4: house and do like a reading with me. And she

716
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 4: was like, yeah, sure, totally. So she came over and

717
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 4: I was like, I want to do it in this room.

718
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 4: So we like sat on this couch and it was

719
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 4: the craziest thing ever. She sat down and she was

720
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 4: like when I came in, I saw something and I

721
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 4: was like oh, and she was like I saw a

722
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 4: woman standing in front of a man, and the man

723
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,479
Speaker 4: was like hiding in the shadows. He wouldn't come out

724
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 4: because he felt unjustified. Mm and like she knows nothing.

725
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 4: She does no, my dad is dead. She doesn't know

726
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 4: he was murdered.

727
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 3: She knows nothing.

728
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 4: And I was like what, and she was like and

729
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 4: she kept using the word like unjustified, Like he feels

730
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 4: like there's no justice, and he won't come out until

731
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 4: there's justice. And I think the woman standing in front

732
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 4: of him was my grandma that Rico references, because my

733
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 4: grandma kept saying like, I can't die until I know

734
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 4: what happened to my son. I can't die until I

735
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 4: know what happened to my son. And I think she

736
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 4: found out and she she was in the hospital shortly after.

737
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 4: And my aunt Pearl, who is Omar's mom, is the

738
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 4: one who decided to.

739
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:49,800
Speaker 3: Pull the plug.

740
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 4: Whow So I think that she found out and Pearl

741
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 4: was very eager to like expedite this this situation.

742
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 3: I mean, she was sick and old.

743
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 4: I'm not saying like Pearl killed my grandma, but I

744
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 4: think that you know, she was like, Okay, you're old,

745
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,439
Speaker 4: you're sick, and you know, it was so and so

746
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 4: we gotta you're done. And I do think that my

747
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 4: grandma died knowing what happened. So yeah, very weird.

748
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 3: But she came over. I mean she was here for

749
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 3: like an hour and a half. I actually recorded the

750
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 3: whole thing.

751
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,879
Speaker 4: I've never released it, so I'm thinking about doing it

752
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 4: as like a bonus episode now because so much of

753
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 4: this was like two over two years ago. To kind

754
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 4: of see e, like, she said a lot of stuff.

755
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 4: I haven't even really listened back in a while. She

756
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 4: said a lot of stuff, and I kind of want

757
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 4: to go through and be like, oh, and that's true

758
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 4: and that happened, and then that happened, and oh my god,

759
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 4: she said this and I didn't even remember and then

760
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 4: this happened, and I'd love to kind of go back

761
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 4: through it. But even in that moment, it was like,

762
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 4: cause I'm kind of like, I'm spiritual and I feel

763
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,359
Speaker 4: stuff sometimes, but like young stuff, I'm kind of like, man,

764
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 4: not for me, which is why I went and I

765
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:01,760
Speaker 4: was like, I'm not going to tell this girl anything.

766
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 4: So if she's like talking all kinds of crazy, like

767
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 4: I'm going to know it's not real and then she

768
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 4: started doing all this stuff and I was like, I mean,

769
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 4: I was like, h.

770
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 3: It was so crazy. So it was really interesting.

771
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 4: She said a bunch of stuff and she like looked

772
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 4: to the case files and she's like pointing at things,

773
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 4: and it was so bizarre. It was really powerful. And

774
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 4: I think that that was like kind of my dad.

775
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 4: This was like about a month before the show came out,

776
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 4: first episode dropped, and so I do think it was

777
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 4: this moment of my dad being like, okay, like put

778
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 4: it out and like, let's just see what happens.

779
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 2: And yeah, so we spoke about this earlier. So what

780
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 2: does closure look like for you if you don't get justice?

781
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 3: I think I already have it. I think I have.

782
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 4: I'm at a point where I can anything more I

783
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,439
Speaker 4: do now is great, and I'm going to keep going

784
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 4: as long as I physically can. But like, between bankrupting

785
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 4: myself to solve my dad's murder and getting his name

786
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 4: googleable and all this coverage, I'm like, I think I

787
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 4: can confidently say I've done everything I can to solve

788
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 4: this case. And I think that's the point that two

789
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 4: years ago, if you had asked me, like what I

790
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 4: really wanted it was that it was I want to

791
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 4: do whatever it takes to solve it. And I do

792
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 4: now feel like I've done everything that I can, and

793
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 4: I'd love to do more, but I do feel like

794
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 4: I'm at a point where it's like anything more is

795
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 4: more and anything I've done so far.

796
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 3: Is like everything I could have done.

797
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 4: Yea, And so to me, I think that's that's closure,

798
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 4: is going to bed at night going like I did

799
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 4: everything that I possibly could do. I put it out there,

800
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 4: I talked to people, I flew back and met with

801
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 4: Darryl Smith, and I talked to Rico, and I got

802
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 4: the police's attention, and you know, I did all this stuff.

803
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 4: Like to me, that's a sense of closure. I would

804
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 4: love for this case to go to court, and I

805
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 4: would love for everyone who was involved in the murder

806
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 4: and in some sort of cover up to see their

807
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 4: day in court. But for now, I feel like I've

808
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 4: done everything I can, and I think that is that's

809
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 4: closure to me.

810
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 2: And last, but not least, if you can speak to

811
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 2: your dad one last time, what would you say to him?

812
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 3: Can I borrow one hundred bucks?

813
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 2: No? Because I know he has some coins?

814
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 4: Okay, I I mean I would have been like move

815
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 4: to La No, I don't know. It's it's so interesting

816
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 4: because it's like then I start to contextualize and I'm like,

817
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 4: what would I say now, or what would I say

818
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 4: if he had never been murdered and we were just

819
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 4: kicking it and I didn't know any of this stuff

820
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 4: about him.

821
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 3: It's interesting.

822
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 4: I do wish that I could have kind of a

823
00:42:55,600 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 4: normal relationship with my dad. Uh you know, my sister

824
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 4: and my dad kind of fought a lot because she

825
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 4: was sixteen and she was going through you know, those

826
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:07,240
Speaker 4: teenage years and whatever.

827
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 3: And it's funny.

828
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, I wish I could fight with my

829
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 4: dad like I wish I had, you know, those most

830
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 4: like real raw like emotion with like oh, I want

831
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 4: to hate my dad, you know, I want to be

832
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 4: like sixteen and my dad tells me I can't go

833
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 4: to the movies and I'm like and I sneak out

834
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,879
Speaker 4: and fuck, like you don't love me, you don't want

835
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 4: me to have any fun, like I want those moments.

836
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:34,760
Speaker 4: And yeah, it's it's weird. There's a lot I wish

837
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 4: that I could have had. I mean, I think now,

838
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 4: like it's very interesting. I'm seeing someone who I really

839
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 4: am excited about, and it's like, oh I wish that,

840
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 4: like like I wish he could meet my dad.

841
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 3: I would you know, Like I don't know.

842
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 4: I just it's like very weird to be in this

843
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,320
Speaker 4: position and be like, oh, I just wish she was

844
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 4: here for like these moments in my life that are

845
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 4: like really important and exciting. Like I just ordered my

846
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 4: mom Mother's Day flowers and I would have been like, hey, Dad,

847
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 4: can we like go half and half?

848
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:05,439
Speaker 2: Right?

849
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 4: Well, like just like little it's the little things that

850
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 4: I think I wish I could sort of participate in

851
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 4: and like do with my dad that.

852
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 3: I just can't and it's a bummer. Yeah.

853
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 2: Well, I'm super proud of you, sus I'm really happy

854
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 2: that we were able to connect. And however I can

855
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 2: support you, I will be doing it. So tell everybody

856
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 2: where we can support you at give us your socials,

857
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 2: tell us what's next so we can stay up to

858
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 2: date and keep supporting you and keep you lifted because

859
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 2: I can only imagine how taxing this is on you.

860
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, so I'm the podcast is Ice Cold Case.

861
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 4: Wherever you get your podcasts, it's Ice Cold Case on

862
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 4: social And then I'm Madison underscore.

863
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 3: Magee on everything.

864
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,720
Speaker 4: And yeah, I'm gonna be posting more clips soon.

865
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 2: Yes, And to listeners, if you have any questions, come

866
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 2: it's concerns, please make sure to email me. He hello

867
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 2: at the psgpodcast dot com. And this was fun. I

868
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 2: had so much fun with you.

869
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. This was amazing.

870
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,399
Speaker 4: You're amazing, and I'm truly so glad that we got

871
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 4: to do this.

872
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 2: Me too, Me too, because you know, Delta almost held

873
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 2: me beat He's supposed to have been done this. But

874
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 2: that's the whole story. But until next time, everyone later,

875
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:23,240
Speaker 2: not gonna say.

876
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 3: Bye, oh bye.

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Speaker 2: Pretty Private is a production of the Black Effect podcast Network.

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Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Don't forget

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Speaker 2: to subscribe and rate the show, and you can connect

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Speaker 2: with me on social media at Pretty Private Podcasts