1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, thirty Rock Boss, Baby Hunt 2 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: for Red October, countless appearances on Saturday Night Live. That 3 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: can only mean one name, Alec Baldwin. That name is 4 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: a household name, Alec Baldwin. But what about the name 5 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: Helena Hutchins, the woman most legal legals believe he shot dead. Baldwin, 6 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: whether you agree or disagree with all of his political leanings, 7 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: has always had a reputation for being let's just say impetuous. 8 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: That may be one way to put it. He's been 9 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: called the Bloviator because of his frequent angry outbursts. But 10 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: the shooting Helena Hutchins is a whole another thing. What 11 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:12,199 Speaker 1: is seemingly an accident is being let's say, view through 12 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: a different lens. Now that his wife has taken to 13 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: the airwaves to complain about her and her husband's treatment. 14 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: Now remember, you've got a beautiful young woman, a mother, 15 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: a wife dead. Many people would argue, this is not 16 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: the time for you to complain about how you the 17 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: shooter and his wife are being mischaracterized in the media. 18 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: Take a listen to I like Baldwin's wife, Hilaria Baldwin. 19 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: One thing I've learned from entering this famous world is 20 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: that when you get negative attention, whether it's controls or 21 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: tablic media, and people say to you, I'll just ignore it. 22 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: That's what they want to be given them attention. This 23 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: is literally what they want. The issue is if you 24 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: don't say anything, you're giving them a space for them 25 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: to speak for you, and your silence sometimes speaks enough 26 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: for them to be able to commandeer your story. But 27 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 1: it's tricky because you don't want to be constantly just 28 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: responding to every single, crazy, crazy thing that they say. 29 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: One thing I want you guys to start to maybe 30 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 1: hear from me is that there's a difference between covering 31 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: a new story and creating a news story. We oftentimes 32 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 1: have people creating news stories about us. So instead of 33 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: speaking out about the dead woman, or her child, or 34 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 1: her husband or the pain that her family is going through, 35 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 1: she chose that moment to discuss how she and her 36 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 1: husband are being betrayed in the media. While everything she 37 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: said maybe true was at the right time to lament 38 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: your misfortune, I mean, as he graced this is crime Stories. 39 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation. 40 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: In series M eleven, all Poor Mothing and whining aside. 41 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: Many people believe what happened to Helena Hutchins was in 42 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: fact an accident. Does anyone really believe Alec Baldwin meant 43 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: to shoot Helena right there on the set, a woman 44 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: he had been working with for some time, a woman 45 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: well liked and very talented. Probably not. But what does 46 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: the law say? The law says two conflicting things in 47 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: this scenario. Number One, accident. Accident is a complete defense 48 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: under the law. If this was an accident, he is 49 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: totally exonerated. The law also says that the law presumes 50 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: you intend the natural consequence of your act. If I 51 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: take a piece of fine china so fine you could 52 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: practically see through it, and I throw it to a 53 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: cement floor, the law will presume I intend to break it. 54 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: I intend the natural consequence of my act. So when 55 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: you take a weapon and point it at someone and 56 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 1: fiddle with the hammer, the law assumes you intend the 57 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: natural consequence of your act. Two. In this case, this 58 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: fact scenario conflicting legal assumptions. Again, I Nancy Grace, this 59 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: is crime stories. Thanks for being with us. What happened? 60 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: And why is Baldwin giving full on interviews as well? 61 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: As his wife's spouting off on Instagram with me and 62 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: I'll star Padel. Wendy Patrick, California Project You, author of 63 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: Red Flags on Amazon. You can find her at Wendy 64 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: Patrick PhD dot com. She's the host of Today with 65 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: Doctor Wendy at KCBQ, San Diego. Doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned 66 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: psychoanalysts joining us out of LA at doctor Bethany Marshall 67 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 1: dot com, and you can see her. She's in the 68 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: hit series Bleeding Empire on Netflix. Paul Zeke, former police commander, 69 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: author of Stop Him From Killing Them on Amazon Wow. 70 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,359 Speaker 1: You can find him at Stop Him from Killing Them 71 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: dot com. Doctor Michelle Duprie with US forensic pathologists, former 72 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: medical examiner, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. But at 73 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: first to Alexis Terreschut Crime Online dot com investigative reporter Alexis, 74 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: I know you're in the thick of it there in LA, 75 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: but I want you to take a listen to again. 76 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: Hilaria Baldwin, this is our cut forty. I speaking out 77 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: on Instagram now. My husband is suffering from PTSD right 78 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: now is something that not just from what has happened recently, 79 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: but he's been suffering from this very very, very long time. 80 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: So now I'm hearing instead of about the victim in 81 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 1: this case that bled out there's a hole in her 82 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:27,559 Speaker 1: jacket spurting blood on the set, I'm hearing about Alec 83 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 1: Baldwin's PTSD. Okay, some would say, don't care, but Alexa's terrest, Chuck, 84 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: Why is he giving full on interviews and why is 85 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: his wife speaking about what he's going through right now? 86 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 1: Helena is dead. He is dead, and Hilaria has been 87 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 1: criticized over and over since has happened. She put she's 88 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: been on her social media. She put up a picture 89 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 1: of the kids on Halloween, you know, two weeks after 90 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: it happened, saying, you know, we've been through a really 91 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: tough time, but here's some super tu picture of our 92 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: whole family, and people immediately slammed her, saying, you are 93 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: not at all being any way sensitive to this little 94 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: boy who was lost to family. No one needs to 95 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: see pictures of your kids, they really don't. You can 96 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: take these pictures, you can put them up in your house, 97 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: you can sew into your parents, but this doesn't need 98 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: to be something where people think you're bragging about having 99 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: all your children alive when this woman's little boy is dead. 100 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: Hold on just a second, Alexis terrest Chuck with me, 101 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: longtime friend and colleague joining me from La Alexis. You 102 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: said something that I've got to go to Doctor Bethany 103 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: on Doctor Bethany Marshall is with us, guys, renowned psychoanalyst 104 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: to the stars in La Doctor Bethany. In this world, 105 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,559 Speaker 1: it's almost as if you don't post it, it didn't happen. 106 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: That's right, if you don't think this faithing a little 107 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: more than that's right. So let me rephrase my question 108 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: that's I used in trial when the witness was not 109 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: saying what I wanted the witness to say. Let me 110 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: rephrase your honor, then me look at the witness and 111 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: try again. What is that when people believe or they 112 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: act as if they can't really believe it, If they 113 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: don't post it, then it didn't happen. It's a whole 114 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: if a tree fall. If a tree falls in the forest, 115 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: does anybody does it make a sound if nobody hears it? 116 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: Blah blah? What is that, Doctor Bethanie? That feeling you've 117 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: got to post everything to make it real? Oh, I 118 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: see what you're saying. I call it tone deaf on 119 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: her part and very self referential. Her life is completely 120 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: relf around Bethany. We're not at all psychoanalysts to the stars. 121 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: You got to slow it down a little bit. Take 122 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: from a DMPA out of sixty and maybe I can 123 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: understand you go ahead, self what self referential? Everything refers 124 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: back to her and to her family. Remember, one of 125 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: the things she posted is that her husband, Alec Baldwin, 126 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: has had PTSD for a long long time, well before 127 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: this accident. She's trying to claim that he has post 128 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: traumatic stress disorder from being a star. He say, why, 129 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: please stop, please stop. I need to just soak that in. Okay, Look, 130 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,199 Speaker 1: I'm just a trial lawyer doing my thing. Alec Baldwin 131 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: is a big, huge movie star. You many times. I've 132 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,079 Speaker 1: seen Boss Baby and Boss Baby two with the children, 133 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: so he's this huge mega star. I'm just a trial lawyer. 134 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: So I kind of feel like this is a David 135 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: and Golia thing here. But did you just say he 136 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: has PTSD from being a star. That's what his wife 137 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: is claiming. Can you imagine if there wasn't like a 138 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: childhood trauma He didn't fight overseas, he wasn't in a 139 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 1: car crash, he wasn't a crime victim, he wasn't in 140 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: a hurricane. The PTSD is from being a star. That 141 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: can't be true. Are you sure? Why does Alec Baldwin 142 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: have PTSD? Okay, go ahead, I'm sorry. Can you imagine 143 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: if the President of the United States said, oh, I 144 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: have PTSD because I'm on the news every night, or 145 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: any other big star. See what happened. What's happening is 146 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: that Hilaria not only is she tone deaf, Haara Halararia 147 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: Halaria is tone deaf. In posting her children's cute Halloween pictures, 148 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: she's saying that her husband, who chose to be a 149 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: TV star, who's from a family of stars, is traumatized 150 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: by his prominent position in society. And the fact that 151 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: she is saying that means that she is covering over 152 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: the fact that there was a huge tragedy Helena's death. 153 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: See it detracts from that. It takes the whole public 154 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: attention down to different road. Poor Alec. He has PTSD 155 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: because he's a star, not because he shot somebody inadvertently. 156 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: But he's been this way for a long, long time. 157 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: She's really throwing the discussion off. She is changing the 158 00:10:55,760 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: public discourse away from the facts. Time stories with Nancy Grace. 159 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: You know. Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor joining me. Wendy, I 160 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: remember when I would go on trial, well almost the 161 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: whole teen years I was a prosecutor in inner City Atlanta, 162 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: I would almost always wear navy and black, no jewelry, 163 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: no fingernail polish, nothing like that. And I'll tell you why, 164 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 1: because so after the first state eighteen months prosecuting, once 165 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: I first started trying cases, my case is very quickly 166 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: shifted to homicide. And there was just something wrong with 167 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: wearing like a bright red dress or a mini skirt 168 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: or red nails. I don't know that, just something struck 169 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: me as wrong when I would be dealing with upsetting 170 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: material and I would have the victims' families there, and 171 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: it just felt wrong, you know. Off, go Indy. Now, 172 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: when I appear on camera, people always saying these are friends, like, 173 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: why don't you ever smile? I'm like about what I'm 174 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: typically talking about a case where there is a fatality, 175 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: a debt, or molestation or an arson, and I can't 176 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: bring myself to smile about it. That is so wrong 177 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 1: under those circumstances. Did you go through that as well 178 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: as a prosecutor, Well, I certainly did, because I began 179 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: my career as a deputy public defender where I dressed 180 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,079 Speaker 1: it very differently. There's a sense of what I call 181 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: counterintuition in my book, where the consistency matters to a jury. 182 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: If you are too light, to dismissive, to distracting, it 183 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: really detracts from the message you're seeking descend, especially if 184 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: you're there representing the interests of crime victims. So I 185 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: addressed the same way as you. Sometimes I would add 186 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: the small string of pearls, but it was really sort 187 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,319 Speaker 1: of an air of making sure that my message is 188 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: consistent with what I want to impress upon a jury. 189 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: And that's true too, no matter whether you're a trial lawyer, 190 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: you're a celebrity, you're a spokesperson, there has to be 191 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 1: that sense of seriousness and consistency that might be lacking 192 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: if you're distracting. But in Alec Baldwin's defense, he did 193 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: talk about the faith that he is not really the victim, 194 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,839 Speaker 1: although that maybe how he's being betrayed right now by 195 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: his wife, take those to our cut fifty. This is 196 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: Baldwin speaking on ABC. When I talk about this, my 197 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: concern is it I don't sound like I'm the victim, 198 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: because there is a victim. There's a woman who died 199 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: and my friend got shot. He's my friend and she 200 00:13:57,960 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: was a new friend. I met her and we worked 201 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: together on the some of them mapping out of what 202 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: we're going to do on the film, which you know, 203 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: in the movie terms, if you can make a movie 204 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: with Scorsese, you when the DP don't sit down and 205 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,959 Speaker 1: they solicit your ideas of how to make the film, 206 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. In the case of Helena, 207 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: we sat down collaboratively and talked a lot about what 208 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: we wanted to do in that precious amount of time 209 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: we had. But I want to make sure that I 210 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: don't come across the c I'm the victim because we 211 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: have two victims here. That is true. He's not the victim, 212 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: but that is the way his wife is portraying them. 213 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: And what can you tell me, Alexis to Rose Truck 214 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: about the photos and the posts that are happening now. 215 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: I know you mentioned the Halloween photo, a recent photo 216 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: of them getting their Christmas tree. Why is that rubbing 217 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: so many people the wrong way? People feel that Hularia 218 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: Baldwin is bragging about her own family and saying, oh, 219 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: look at how wonderful we are. We have so many kids. 220 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: And there's not to say you shouldn't love and be 221 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: proud of your children, of course, but you have to 222 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: People want her to be respectful that a woman did 223 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: lose her life. A little boy has lost his mom 224 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: and he can't see any more pictures. And it's whether 225 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: or not. Alec is not a victim. He may not 226 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: be the ultimate reason it happened, but he was holding 227 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: the gun when it fired and she died. You cannot 228 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: dispute that, and therefore me true that he recently stated 229 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: he did not pull the trigger. Alexis, Yes, he'd said 230 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: that he did not pull the trigger. He was just 231 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: got to go off of it's in his hand and 232 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: its fires. How did it go off if he didn't 233 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: pull a trigger. So his exact quote was I cock 234 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: the gun. So what he's saying is he pulled back 235 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: the hammer. This is not a semi automatic weapon. This 236 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: is an old fashioned weapon. It was a Western film, 237 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: you know, from the eighteen hundred so it's it's an 238 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: older pistol and he pulls back the hammer. Now that 239 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: is not how it would normally the gun would normally fire. 240 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: But he says, he's holding it. They're doing what's called 241 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: blocking the director. She is saying, hold it, pull it up, 242 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: put it down, let's turn a little bit to the right. 243 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: I just want to make sure I'm getting the shot right. 244 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: And he says, then he cocked it, and he let 245 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: go of the hammer of the gun for this the 246 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: piece on the top, and then he says, the gun 247 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: goes off. I let go of the hammer of the gun. 248 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: The gun goes off. Those are his exact hear what 249 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin has to say. This is just speaking with 250 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: our friends at ABC. Are kept fifty two. This was 251 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: a completely incidental shot, an angle that may not have 252 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: ended up in the film at all, but we kept 253 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: doing this. So then I said to her, now in 254 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: this scene, I'm going to cock the gun. And I said, 255 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: do you want to see that? And she said yes. 256 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: So I take the gun and I start to cock 257 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: the gun. I'm not going to pull the trigger, I said, 258 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: do you see that? She will just cheat it down 259 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: and tilt it down. A little bit like that, and 260 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: I cocked the gun. Can you see that? Can you 261 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: see that? Can you see that? And she says, and 262 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: I let go of the hammer of the gun, the 263 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: gun goes on. At the moment, that was the moment 264 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: the gun went off. Yet that was the moment of 265 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: going on. It wasn't in the script for the trigger 266 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: to be pulled. Well, the trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't 267 00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: pull the trigger. So you never pulled the trigger. No, no, no, no. 268 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: I would never point a gun a pull a trigger 269 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: at the never. That was the training that I had. 270 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: You don't point a gun and pull trigger on day 271 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: one of my instruction and this business people said to me, 272 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: never take a gun and go click click click click click, 273 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: because even though it's incremental, you damage the firing pin 274 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: on the gun if you do that. Don't do that. 275 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 1: Interesting take listen to our cut fifty three more ball 276 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 1: and speaking. So yeah, this cold forty five. You just 277 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: pulled the hammer as far back as I go without 278 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 1: cocking the actual and you're holding onto the hammer. I'm 279 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 1: holding out. I'm just showing I how about that? Does 280 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: that work? You see that? Do you see that? You said? 281 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: She goes Yeah, that's good. I let go of the hammer. Bang, 282 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: the gun goes on. Everyone is horrified, they're shocked. It's loud. 283 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: They don't have their ear plugs, and no one was 284 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: the gun was supposed to be empty. I was told 285 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 1: I was handed an empty gun, or if there were 286 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: cosmetic grounds, nothing with a charge at all, or flash 287 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: round nothing. She goes down, I thought to myself, because 288 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: she faint. You're hearing Ali Baldwin giving his verse of 289 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: what happened to day Helena Hutchins is shot dead on 290 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: the set by the gun he's holding in his hand, 291 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: obviously pointed at her. Paul's like is with us former 292 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: police commander authors stop him from killing them on Amazon? Paul, 293 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: what is he saying that he pulled back the hammer 294 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: and let go explain why that would cause the gun 295 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: to fire. It's it's irrelevant whether or not he pulled 296 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: the trigger. In what he's explaining, he's pulling back the 297 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 1: hammer of the gun and he doesn't bring it all 298 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: the way back to where it locks. Once that hammer's 299 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 1: pulled far enough back, it locks in place. And then 300 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: at that point you would need a trigger to be 301 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 1: pulled to allow it to fall and strike the firing pin, 302 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: and then strike the primer to the bullet that's in 303 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: the chamber. And what he's describing is why I'm pulling 304 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: back the hammer and you know, getting different angles, and 305 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: he pulls it back far enough and then let the 306 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: go of it. Well, that energy that that hammer has 307 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: in falling forward, Um, it's going to be very close 308 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: to whether he fired it from a cock position or 309 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: fired it from you know, a half cocked position where 310 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 1: when he lets go of his thumb, the hammer drops 311 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: and then and the gun still functions, just as if 312 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: the hammer would have been cocked and the trigger would 313 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: have been pulled. So really, at this point, um, that's 314 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: irrelevant because shot the gun via the hammer bypassing a trigger. Yeah, 315 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 1: so if you're if you're screwing around with the hammer, 316 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 1: you're pulling it back and you're and the weapon is 317 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 1: aimed in a direction that is unsafe, and then you 318 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:47,199 Speaker 1: let go of the hammer and the hammer falls forward 319 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: and causes the weapon to discharge. That's the same as 320 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: cocking it and pulling the trigger. Because that style of gun, 321 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 1: that's the way it operates. It's a single action gun. 322 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: So he's manipulated the gun. The guns being aimed, the 323 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: gun fires, you have somebody dead, you have another person injured. 324 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 1: Doctor micheldon free joining us way in. Well, it could 325 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: have happened exactly as you said, because when the hammer 326 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: is pulled back, when you release the hammer, the gun 327 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: goes off and it's fired. But the real question is 328 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: why was there a real bullet in the gun in 329 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 1: the first place, and who put it there? Time stories 330 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, I think a lot of people don't 331 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 1: understand the workings the mechanisms of a pistol like this. 332 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: Granted it was an old gun, an antique gun, but 333 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: it was not a prop prop pistols do not shoot. 334 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 1: That's the first thing we have to understand. This was 335 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: not a prop gun. Why they didn't use props, I 336 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 1: don't know, Alexas Terresta. Isn't that standard sp in movies 337 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: that you use a prop not an actual gun. No, 338 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: it's not, unfortunately that they are. They are real guns. 339 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: They are not supposed to be loaded, and but they 340 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: are not prop guns. Even considering that they were, there 341 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,239 Speaker 1: have been tragedies over the years of people dying on 342 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: set accidentally getting shot. But they are real guns. You 343 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: think that they could make it. Hollywood can make anything, 344 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: but no people use real guns. Of course. Yeah, jump 345 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: in you know, Nanty, I think you bringing up a 346 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: good point, and that's something I've been seeing for a while. 347 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: You know, this is a deadly weapon. This is a 348 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: this is a gun. This is a firearm that was 349 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 1: meant to fire bullets, and it's being utilized as a prop. 350 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: It's not a prop gun, but it's a deadly weapon 351 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 1: being utilized as a prop. For instance, if you had 352 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: a prop knife, a prop knife wouldn't be razor sharp. 353 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,199 Speaker 1: It would have a dull edge that would make it 354 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: a prop. It's not intended to be used as a knife. 355 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: Real big difference between those two things. Guys, take a 356 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: listen to our cut number six, our friends at Need's Nation. 357 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,160 Speaker 1: Let's start with the people responsible for handling a gun. 358 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,199 Speaker 1: There are no ubiquitous rules across all film sets, but 359 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 1: generally there are some guidelines that they follow. Adhering to 360 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: a budget. Budget usually plays a big role on many sets. 361 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: There are no fewer than three people responsible for monitoring 362 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: a weapon. The prop master, who's in charge of all props, 363 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: is often supported by a safety officer and a stunt 364 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: coordinator and depending on the state, you may also need 365 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: to bring in an armorer whose only job is handling weapons. 366 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 1: An armorer is required by New Mexico state law. That 367 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: person directly communicates with the director of photography to ensure 368 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: gun safety and should be constantly monitoring that weapon. Very 369 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: rarely is live ammunition used on a movie set anymore nowadays. 370 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: The revisual effects graphics afterwards are the most common practice, 371 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: but sometimes they still do use blanks. You've heard a 372 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: lot about it. Blanks are just like normal bullets, except 373 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 1: they don't have a bullet. Instead, they're loaded with plastic 374 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 1: or felt or paper something to give a spark to 375 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: simulate that firing effect. But they can still be very deadly, 376 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: especially when fired at close range, even if they're not 377 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: improperly loaded. So would he have known, let me throw 378 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: this to you, Paul Zyke. What he have known? That 379 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: the hammer, which is they don't know how to explain 380 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 1: it any other way, the mechanism on the top of 381 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: the gun, that letting go of it would have the 382 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: same effect as pulling the trigger. He definitely should have 383 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:42,919 Speaker 1: known that, and any any manipulation of that firearm, of 384 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: that type of a single action gun that the hammer 385 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: is the whole story. If you leave that hammer forward, 386 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: the gun cannot fire. You start pulling the pulling the 387 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 1: hammer back, you know, manipulating the hammer, you're taking a 388 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: real risk of that slip out of your thumbs grip 389 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: and going forward and causing an accidental discharge. So yeah, 390 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: even if he didn't know, he should have known. That's 391 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: basic firearm knowledge involving that firearm. It should have been about. 392 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 1: It should have been germane to the briefing that he 393 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: was given by the armor or whoever the safety officer 394 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: is on any given set. I mean, I don't understanding 395 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,479 Speaker 1: everybody saying I didn't do it. I didn't do it, 396 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,239 Speaker 1: I didn't touch it, I didn't put the bullet in. 397 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 1: Somebody put a bullet and that gun alexis. The armor 398 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:38,719 Speaker 1: says no. Assistant director says no, Baldwin says no. Everybody 399 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: says they didn't do it. So who did it alexis? 400 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: That is left the police are trying to find out. 401 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: And that is why there has been a subpoena issue 402 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: because David Halls, the assistant director, is not speaking with 403 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: the investigators, which is his right, but they want to 404 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: speak to him to find out exactly what happened, because 405 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,439 Speaker 1: everybody there have been so many statements. Law enforcement has 406 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: said that only David Hall's Alec Baldwin. The armor is 407 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: a young woman named Hannah Gautier's read this was only 408 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: her second movie that where she had been in charge 409 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: of the weapons, and then then there was a prop master, 410 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: a woman. So these people are the only ones that 411 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 1: handled this gun. Everybody is saying there wasn't live ammunition, 412 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: but apparently there was. Police seized over five hundred rounds ammunitions. 413 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: They found some of it was live in there. So 414 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: what they're doing is trying to trace it back and 415 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: figure out where each and every bullet on that set 416 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 1: came from and figure out how the live one went 417 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: from in the box with other Was it just all 418 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: together in you know, like a messy box, or was 419 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 1: it systematically put in there? There have even the incident 420 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: true that there were reports the crew was taking target practice. 421 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: Was that yeah, and other guns on their lunch breaks. 422 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: That just sounds so out of procedure to have live 423 00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: AMMO and target for what. Why would you have target prava? 424 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: This is a movie. You're not out in the wild 425 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: wild West. Why are they doing that, well, they kind 426 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: of we're out in the wild wild West. It was 427 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 1: out in the middle of nowhere. It was the way 428 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: people shoot at each other alexus and not at each 429 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: other target practice legos. Okay, let me just try to 430 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: rephrase my question, and you know what that means. This 431 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: is not the wild West where people shot at each 432 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 1: other in gun battles. Also, wild wild West is phraseology. 433 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:36,360 Speaker 1: Alexis to refer to a let us say, cavalier attitude 434 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: where people are not taking into accounts safety precautions. For instance, 435 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: if I come home from work and see the children 436 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: jumping from sofa to chair, I might say, what is 437 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 1: this the wild wild West? Because everybody's acting crazy. My 438 00:26:54,760 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: point is this is not the wild wild West. Although 439 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: you have so accurately pointed out that the film was 440 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 1: being shot in the West. My point is, why are 441 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: they taking target practice at lunch? I think a very 442 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,199 Speaker 1: clear answer for that is, you know, all things being equal, 443 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: it's the simplest explination, and that is you have too 444 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: many people in charge, with too much power on the set, 445 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: with not enough accountability. You know, you've got a primary 446 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: actor who's a superstar, who's also the producer, of the film. 447 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: I mean, who's going to step in and tell him, hey, look, 448 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,239 Speaker 1: this is unsafe, don't do that, or or risk you know, 449 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 1: of setting him. That's something that's uh, you know, it's 450 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: probably not going to happen, and you know, like for instance, 451 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: my experience on Terminator Salvation, we were out in the 452 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: middle of a little area called Algadonis, which is just 453 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: south of Santa Fe, New Mexico, in a giant field 454 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: with no houses in sight, in the middle of the night, 455 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: being issued fully automatic guns with blanks in them, and 456 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: we would go out to the battle scenes and fire 457 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 1: them off in a fully automatic capacity, hundreds of rounds, 458 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 1: and then come back and hand those weapons straight to 459 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: the armors good chain of custody and not touch anything 460 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: again until the next battle scene. So regardless of if 461 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 1: it was in the wild West or it was out 462 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere, it's a workplace just like 463 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: any other workplace, and it's there's obligations to keep it safe, 464 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: and that didn't happen. Take us to our cut fifty five. 465 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: This is Baldwin himself speaking to our friends at ABC. 466 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: People said to me, I mean I got countless people 467 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 1: online saying you idiot. You never pointed gun to someone, well, 468 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: unless you're told it's empty, and it's the director of 469 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: photography who's instructing you on the angle for a shop 470 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: we're going to do. And she and I had this 471 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: thing in common where we both thought it was empty 472 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: and and that's not her responsibility, that's not my responsibility, 473 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: or whose responsibility is remains to be seen. But there 474 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: are some who say, you're never supposed to point a 475 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: gun at anyone on a set, no matter what, unless 476 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: the person as a cinematographer who's directed me and where 477 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: to point the gun for her camera angle. That's exactly 478 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: what happened Time Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are 479 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: talking about the fatality on the set of Rust. Helena Hutchins, 480 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: a young mom, very talented director of photography, is dead. 481 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: We now are hearing about multiple lawsuits being filed Alexa's TERRESTI. 482 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: Where does a criminal investigation stand and what about civil 483 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: lawsuits being filed? The criminal investigation is still ongoing as 484 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: this The assistant director, David Halls has been subpoened. He 485 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: has been refusing to speak with investigators. He said he 486 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: doesn't want to speak until after the criminal investigation is completed. 487 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: They need to speak with him to complete the criminal investigation. 488 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: And then there have been multiple lawsuits that have been 489 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: fired by casting in crew members from the set. I 490 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: may have been filed against Baldwin, against the producers, against 491 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: Haul and against Hannah kutierat Reid, who was the armor 492 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: too Alexa's terrestric Again. Crime online dot Com investigative reporter 493 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,239 Speaker 1: there was they call it a scandal. As far as 494 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: I'm concerned, I don't care one way or the other. 495 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: Where Baldwin's wife was in quite a pickle after claiming 496 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: she was from Spain and went on air in a 497 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: cooking segment somewhere and pretended she didn't know the name 498 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: for what cucumber? How do you say I believe her awards. 499 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: I think she was raised in New England actually, and 500 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure they have cucumbers. But that aside, that 501 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: would make me very leery of what I said on 502 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,719 Speaker 1: social media. And this is really coming back to haunt her. 503 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut forty nine. This is 504 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: Baldwin's wife, Hilaria Baldwin. Now, my husband is suffering from 505 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: PTSC right now, is something that not just from what 506 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: happened recently, but he's been suffering from this for a 507 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: very very very long time, and these people know this 508 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: and they want to poke at him and they want 509 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: to upset him, and then they want to create news 510 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: about this. So if you create a news story, then 511 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: the next day there's gonna be tons of pop brest 512 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: and there's gonna be more stories that come up with that, 513 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: and there's more cliques and more shares and money, which 514 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: is ultimately what this is all about. I mean, Dr 515 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: Bethan Marshall, you're the psychoalence to the stars. Isn't that 516 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: part of celebrity? People are going to pick apart everything 517 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: you say. They're going to take potshots to either, going 518 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: to say horrible things online that you don't want to 519 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: read and you don't want your children to raise, Pete say. 520 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: Isn't that part of it? Kitten Caboodle Nancy. Part of 521 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: being a celebrity is exactly what she's talking about. People 522 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: are interested in you. If they're not interested in you, 523 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: you would not be a celebrity. You know, it sounds 524 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: to me like Hilaria and Alec Baldwin are Hlaria. Hilaria, 525 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry Hilaria and Alec Baldwin have a narrative 526 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: going between the two of them that it is not 527 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: really his fault. So I was listening to the ABC interview, 528 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: and you know, I have a theory as a psychoanalyst, 529 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: when somebody does something bad, they don't really tell the 530 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: truth in the aftermass. It's not that he's lying per 531 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: se or he's trying to speak in mistruth purposefully, but 532 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: he's subtly minimizing the gravity of what happened, because basically 533 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: what he's saying is that Helena was looking in a monitor, 534 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: was blocking the scene. He's cocking the hammer the top 535 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: part of the gun, the top mechanism, as you said, 536 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: and he was doing it in her direction. He didn't 537 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: really pull the trigger, and there's a slight quality of 538 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: undoing the gravity as he's speaking to George Stephanovilis. I 539 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: don't think he's consciously lying. I think he's minimizing and undoing. 540 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: I think the thought that he shot and killed somebody 541 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: is undigestible, and so he wouldn't be able to tell 542 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: the truth in the aftermath. Hilaria, on the other hand, 543 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: is completely off the reservation. She's basically saying that you 544 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: know he has PTSD because he's a celebrity, not because 545 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: he shot somebody. Nancy, do you know as a top 546 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: example in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 547 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: for what causes PTSD, it's witnessing the death of a 548 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: good friend or loved one. That is at the very top, 549 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 1: and that is exactly what happened to him, and that's 550 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: why he has post traumatic stress, not because he's a 551 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: media star. But she's saying he has had it for 552 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: a quote long time that would go at all. Hilaria 553 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: Baldwin claims husband Alec Baldwin has been suffering from PTSD 554 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: for a quote long time, even before the Rust shooting, 555 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: and she goes on to complain about living in the 556 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: quote famous world. Take a listen to our cut forty eight. 557 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: One thing I've learned from entering this famous world is 558 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,240 Speaker 1: that when you get negative attention, whether it's from trolls 559 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 1: or tabloid media, and people say to you, I'll just 560 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: ignore it. That's what they want. If you give them attention, 561 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: this is literally what they want. The issue is if 562 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,479 Speaker 1: you don't say anything, you're giving them a space for 563 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:56,760 Speaker 1: them to speak for you, and your silence sometimes speaks 564 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: enough for them to be able to come endear your story. 565 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: But I mean it's tricky because you don't want to 566 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,879 Speaker 1: be constantly just responding to every single, crazy, crazy thing 567 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 1: that they say. One thing I want you guys to 568 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 1: start to maybe hear from me is that there's a 569 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 1: difference between covering a news story and creating a news story. 570 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:26,720 Speaker 1: We oftentimes have people creating news stories about us. I 571 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: understand that she believes she's helping, but I've learned the 572 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: hard way and court that there's a reason we have 573 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:42,319 Speaker 1: the Fifth Amendment. There is a reason it's there to 574 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 1: protect you from egregious behavior by the states, such as 575 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: prosecutors such as Cobs, detectives, investigators. The Constitution can't protect 576 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: you from yourself. I would suggest let me spare all legalies. 577 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: If you really want want to help your husband, lady, 578 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: shut your pie hole. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend.