1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,959 Speaker 1: I am Tracy Wilson in on Holly Crying. Today. We 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: have a listener requests. We have many who was the 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: real Bloody Blaw? Yeah, so we have who was the 6 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: real Moriarty that kind of thing? Yeah. And and one 7 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: of our off requested things in this case by Michael 8 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: and many other listeners is who was the real Robin Hood? Yeah? Yeah, 9 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: Which is a tricky question. In point of fact, it 10 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: kind of is. Robin Hood style characters have been showing 11 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: up in literature since the fourteenth century, but as a concept, 12 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 1: he's kind of been around longer than that, at least 13 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: seven hundred years um. But his earliest appearance in literature 14 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: was in English ballads that were singing the tales of 15 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: a Sherwood Forest criminal who squared off against the Sheriff 16 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: of Nottingham made Mary In and Friar Tuck came on later, 17 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: but Sherwood Forest and the sheriff and Little John and 18 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: Will Scarlett are all there pretty early on, along with 19 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 1: the idea of robbing rich people but not necessarily giving 20 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: that up to the poor and it comes long later 21 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: to historians who actually lived during the medieval period. Uh, 22 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:22,639 Speaker 1: it seemed to have assumed that Robin Hood was actually 23 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: a real person who lived in the twelfth or thirteenth century. 24 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: But their accounts aren't consistent at all, and modern historians 25 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: aren't so sure about any of that. Um. There's just 26 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: not evidence to support it necessarily. There's a lot of 27 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 1: question marks, and some of the grander elements of the 28 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: robin Hood lore are also pretty tricky when you get 29 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: into the logic of them. Seven score Merrimen may have 30 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: been able to feed and clothe themselves just working with 31 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: the spoils of their robbing, but surviving the winter and 32 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: staying warm without shelter would have been a little bit trickier. Yeah, 33 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: it's not a very warm part of the world without 34 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: some kind of permanent structure to take some kind of 35 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: refuge from the climbing in which then would have been 36 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: easily rated. So it brings it to the question of 37 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,239 Speaker 1: is Robin Hood a fictional blend of outlaw, daring do 38 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: and some wish fulfillment because lots of people like to 39 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: see other people get get their come up. It's oh yeah, 40 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: or was he a real person or a combination of both. 41 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: It's a great question that might not be answered ever. Nope, 42 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: but we're going to examine all of the various possibilities. 43 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: So in the Middle Ages, places like Sherwood Forest weren't 44 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,399 Speaker 1: just vast landscapes of tree cover like we might think 45 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: of the word forest today. They were kind of a 46 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 1: hodgepodge of wooded areas and cultivated ground, so the nobility 47 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: could use them to hunt and to grow food. Uh, 48 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: And there are also laws about how everyone else was 49 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,119 Speaker 1: allowed to use the forest. But the places that were 50 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 1: best for game hunting were also great for hiding, So 51 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,799 Speaker 1: places like Sherwood Forest were perfect for outlaws to call home. 52 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: It was a great place to hide doubt, and it 53 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: was extra great because it was illegal for them to 54 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: even be doing that, So it was a perfect setting 55 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: for these robin Hood style adventure stories that have persisted 56 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: throughout the Ages. The earliest known written reference to robin 57 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: Hood is a passing reference in William Langlan's allegorical poem 58 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: The Vision of Pierce Plowman, which was written in a 59 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: late thirteen seventies. He says, I don't know perfectly my 60 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: our father as the priest sings it, I know rhymes 61 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: of Robin Hood and Randolph Earl of Chester, but neither 62 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: of our Lord nor of our lady. The least that 63 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: ever was written. So he's basically saying, I don't really 64 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: know my prayers, but I do know Robin Hood. Uh. 65 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: And after that there's a series of ballads and stories 66 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: that came along throughout the fourteenth and fifteen centuries, great 67 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: hits like Robin Hood and the Monk, The Little Gest 68 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: of Robin Hood, Robin Hood his Death, Robin Hood, and 69 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: Guy of Gisborne, that Robin Hood and the Colonel Fryar. 70 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: So there's not so much of a really noble rob 71 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: from the rich give to the poor focus, and a 72 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: lot of these older stories there is definitely a lot 73 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: of robbing, not necessarily a lot of giving. In some 74 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: of the early stories. Robin's just really violent and he's 75 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: not a fallen noble in these stories, which is an 76 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 1: idea that was attributed to him a later. He's a commoner, 77 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: a peasant, or at the highest a yeoman, which was 78 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: kind of a middle class situation. The king mentioned in 79 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: these early works is Edward, probably meaning Edward the Second. 80 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 1: While a lot of the more modern portrayals talk about 81 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 1: a Prince John or a King John, and Little John 82 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: and Will Scarlett are also early names that show up 83 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: in the context of being Robin's merry men. But as 84 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: we said before, there was no Maid Marian in these 85 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: early ballads or Friar Tuck. Those really got added in 86 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: later in the context of literature. Robin Hood got upgraded 87 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: to a noble in sixteen o one, and Anthony Monday's 88 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 1: plays the Downfall of Robert Earl of Huntington's and the 89 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 1: death of Robert Robert Earl of Huntington's around seventeen seventy. 90 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 1: Robin Hood's Garland being a complete history of all the 91 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: notable and mary exploits performed by him and his men 92 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: on diverse occasions, to which is added a preface giving 93 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: a more full and particular account of his birth, etcetera. 94 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,359 Speaker 1: Than here any hitherto published came out. That's quite a title. 95 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: I love this extremely long title. Uh. And this particular 96 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: piece of literature added more stories and more characters to 97 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 1: the Robin Hood lore. So there was lots of Robin 98 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: Hood meeting somebody in the woods, fighting with that person, 99 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: and then eventually inviting him to join him and the 100 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: Merrymen in their exploits. By the nineteenth century, robin Hood 101 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: stories were everywhere. Howard Piles The Merry Adventures of robin 102 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: Hood of Great Renown in Nottinghamshire came out in eighty three. 103 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: This gathered lots of robin Hood stuff until one ace 104 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: and also adapted it for children, and it became a 105 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: source material for a lot of the later robin Hood writing. 106 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: This was an illustrated book. It was really expensive for 107 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: its time compared to other books, and it was wildly successful. 108 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: And following that there were plays, operas, comic books, films, films, films, 109 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 1: films and more films, robin Hood movies, uh, costumes, merchandise. 110 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: Robinhood was like a marketing juggernaut. Yeah, he's become kind 111 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 1: of just an iconic figure, especially in in the world 112 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: of English story. So is there any truth to all 113 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: of this? Um? The earliest One of the earliest historical 114 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: notations of robin Hood was from John Major, a Scottish 115 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: historian who wrote his Great His History of Greater Britain. 116 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: In he claims robin Hood did his criminal living in 117 00:06:55,480 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 1: Sherwood Forest UH in eleven ninety three and eleven war. 118 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: Should I read what he says about? Yes, give us 119 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: a little passage. He says about this time. It was 120 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,679 Speaker 1: as I conceive that they're flourished, those famous robbers Robert Hood, 121 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: an Englishman and little John, who lay weight in the woods, 122 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: but spoiled of their goods those only that were wealthy. 123 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: They took the life of no man unless either he 124 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: attacked them or offered resistance in defense of his property. 125 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: Roberts supported by his plundering one hundred bowmen ready fighters, 126 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: everyone with whom four hundred of the strongest would not 127 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: dare to engage in combat. The fiefs of this Robert 128 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: are told in Sons all over written. He would allow 129 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: no woman to suffer injustice, nor would he spoil the poor, 130 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: but rather enriched them from the plunder taken from abbots. 131 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: The robberies of this man I condemn, But of all robbers, 132 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: he was the humanist and the chief. He's pretty much 133 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: solidly in favor of Robin Robin Hood not cool for stealing, 134 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: but definitely cool for all that other stuff. And other 135 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: historians of the time, including Andrew of Wyntun and Walter 136 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: Bauer Uh concurred that Robin Hood was active during the 137 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: middle and late twelve hundred's, so they all sort of 138 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: have this consensus about him being a real person, although 139 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: their dates are different. Yeah. Um, much of today's historical 140 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: writing is not quite so sure that he was a 141 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: real person, and most of that research has involved sifting 142 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: through old court records, which is what we will talk 143 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: about next. But the court records, even though they're legal documents, 144 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 1: don't entirely support the literary and historical writings. Um. So 145 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: I'm sure some people are not so enthused about no, 146 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: because some people want to believe They want to find 147 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: the true Robin Hood in the mix. So, the name 148 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: Robert Hodd appears in court documents in twelve twenty five, 149 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: and this is the earliest known record of a criminals 150 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: name that may have morphed its way into Robin Hood. 151 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: There is another man that appears in the court records 152 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: from twelve sixty one in twelve sixty two, and in 153 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: the twelve sixty one document he's named williams, son of 154 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: Robert Lafaverre, and in twelve sixty two he's William Robod, 155 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: suggesting that the court transcriber knew of the Robin Hood 156 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: legend and possibly ascribed his name to an outlaw. From there, 157 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: there are other Robods and robin Hoods in legal records, 158 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: including people who deliberately took Robod or robin Hood as 159 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: their last names in the thirteenth and fourteen centuries, and 160 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 1: people who adopted Little John as pseudonyms. And so it's 161 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: basically people who heard this famous name and decided that 162 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: should be their name too, because they were outlaws. And 163 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: all of these Robods and robin Hood's muddy the waters 164 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: when you're actually trying to look for a real source 165 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: of the stories. It certainly makes it seem like Robin 166 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: Hood was enough of a legend by the thirteenth century 167 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: that people wanted to adopt his name as theirs. There 168 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: are also a couple of the examples of Robin Hood 169 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,199 Speaker 1: who were definitely criminals, But there's some reason the historians 170 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: say he was not the right guy. He either lived 171 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: too far away or he was just a straight up 172 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: murderer and and you know, didn't do the kind of 173 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: thieving that that Robin Hood was known for. And apart 174 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: from that, in eighteen fifty two, Joseph Hunter published a 175 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: book citing a Robin Hood who worked as a porter 176 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: in the King's court in thirteen twenty four, and he 177 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: connected this to a journey the king is described as 178 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: taking in the ballad a Jest of Robin Hood. Hunter 179 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: speculates that this is the same person as a Robin 180 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: Hood who was outlawed in thirty two, but there's no 181 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: proof that these are actually the same person, and without 182 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: the connection it doesn't really seem to add up or 183 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: hold up. Then we get into the suspects whose names 184 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: do not sound like the words Robin and Hood. Roger 185 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: Godbird was a thirteenth century farmer turned baron turned criminal 186 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 1: who ambushed rich travelers with his band of men. That 187 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 1: she Riff of Nottingham captured him and held him in 188 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: Nottingham Castle, and his criminal dealings went on from around 189 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: twelve sixty seven to twelve seventy two. A couple of 190 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: writers have published books claiming that Roger Goldbird was the 191 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: real Robin Hood, including David Baldwin and Brian Benson. Baldwin 192 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: also claims that he discovered a thirteenth century grave belonging 193 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: to Godbird. Baldwin's book is Robin Hood the English Outlaw Unmasked, 194 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: and Benson's book is titled robin Hood The Real Story, 195 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: but Robod and other pseudonyms meaning robin Hood were already 196 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: in use before Goldbird appeared in the historical record, so 197 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: writing for history today, Sean McGlenn actually cites William of 198 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: Kencham a k a. Willikin of the Wield, and he 199 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: was loyal to the crown and led a resistance band 200 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: of about one thousand archers against French invaders in twelve sixteen. 201 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: His resistance was quite successful, and as a reward he 202 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: was granted wardenship of the seven hundreds of the Wield, 203 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: a division of land, with Wield being a heavily wooded place. 204 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: McGlenn argues that he has the ripe blend of hero 205 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: and outlaw qualities because the English would have viewed him 206 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: as a hero while the French would have viewed him 207 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: as an outlaw. And there are also some other real 208 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: outlaws who aren't that often cited as a real robin Hood, 209 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,559 Speaker 1: but whose activities may have influenced some of the stories 210 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: of Robin of robin Hood shannigans that came along later. Um, really, 211 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: you don't really have to look far during that period 212 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: of history to find people who were fighting in the 213 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 1: woods using bows and arrows, right that that was a 214 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: pretty common thing. So one is folk fitz Lauren, who 215 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: spent some time living in the forest and fighting against 216 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: King John. Another is harrow Ward the Wake, an outlaw 217 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: who fought the Normans not long after the Battle of Hastings, 218 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: And a third is Eustace the Monk, who I think 219 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: I might want to do an episode on later on, 220 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: because Eustace the Monk just sounds like a delightful thing 221 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: to talk about, and it's not really delightful though. He 222 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: became a mercenary after leaving the monastic life to avenge 223 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: his murdered father. Even William Wallace fits this dairy general 224 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: description of guy who was an outlaw and fought from 225 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: the woods. Yeah, and Robin hood changes and evolves with 226 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: the times, so in his earliest incarnations he was tied 227 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: to the violence that was common in the Middle Ages. 228 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: But then, in a trend that is probably quite familiar 229 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: to modern audiences, public sentiment was beginning to see royalty 230 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: and wealthy people in general as a bunch of tyrants 231 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: who were abusing the law and making life harder for 232 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: the commoner. So that, you know, mindset was ripe for 233 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: criminals who would try to take these people down a notch, 234 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: and stories that would celebrate that kind of activity. And 235 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: nowadays robin Hood is a challenger of authority and he 236 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: rights wrongs, and the people who do these kinds of 237 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: things are celebrated as robin Hood figures. We don't. Sometimes 238 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: they're animated as cute little fox. I know, I was 239 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: going to ask you if you had a favorite robin Hood, 240 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: and I thought that that might be the one that 241 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: you would say a tie on the list. Don't get 242 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: me wrong, Yeah, but I don't. I have a a 243 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: detested robin Oh no, who is it. It's the Kevin 244 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: Costner version. Yeah, it's one of the movies. I just 245 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: I had to leave. I couldn't make it through the 246 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: whole thing. Yeah. I think there are people, uh, this 247 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: is not about that comment. There are people who get 248 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: really angry about portfrails of robin Hood that they're like, 249 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: that's not how it was, when how it was. Yeah, Well, 250 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: the earliest depictions, a lot of the things that we 251 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: just sort of assume have always been the case about 252 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: robin Hood weren't really so much there, Like the giving 253 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: to the poor part, not always present. A lot of 254 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: times it was just robbing. I just thought it was 255 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: a portly made movie that it could have been about 256 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: anything valid. But I do really like the Disney version, 257 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: even though of course it's completely um populated to be 258 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: really cutesye, and history kind of gets tossed out the 259 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: window a bit, mostly because Foxes don't wear clothes now 260 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: they typically do not do that. Um. I like Robin Hood. 261 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: I need to. It's such a fun story, and I 262 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: like that it is something that evolves and kind of 263 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: becomes what any any part of history and culture needs 264 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: it to be. And I would kind of rather we 265 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: never know if there was a definite number one real 266 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: person who was quote the real Robin Hood. I like 267 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: him to be kind of mythic and legendary. Well, unless 268 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: somebody discovers a magical historical artifact, you get your wish. Okay, 269 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: let's not ever do that. Hey, do you also have 270 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: some listener mail friends? I do. Uh. This is from 271 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: Kira and it is about our recent episode on cannibalism 272 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: at Jamestown and I was delighted to read it because 273 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: it has awesome information in it. So Era says, I'm 274 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: writing to you in regards to the Cannibalism at Jamestown 275 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: podcast knowing a little bit about a topic myself. I 276 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: just graduated with my bastards in history this past month, 277 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: and my senior thesis was on the trade interactions between 278 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: the Jamestown colonists and the Palatans. It was a long, 279 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: laborious and difficult topics since there isn't a whole lot 280 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: of primary sources to go off of, as you well 281 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: know by now. That being said, my topic originally included 282 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: elements of cannibalism at Jamestown, although I was asked to 283 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: remove that portion because there wasn't enough evidence to fully 284 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: support my use of it. It took me a couple 285 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: of weeks to listen to this podcast because frankly, I 286 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: was a little tired of the topic and needed a break, 287 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: but mostly because I was a team sy bit frustrated 288 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: that after I had researched the topic of cannibalism so extensively, 289 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: then was asked to remove it. Then more evidence surfaced 290 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: in the news two days after I turned in my 291 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: final draft. That's just cruel, I know, and I that 292 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: one of the first things that I said in my 293 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: response was I really ampathize with you, Kira, because that 294 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: happens to us at work on a pretty regular basis. 295 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: So there were two little points in the podcast that 296 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 1: I wanted to correct you on, however. The first was 297 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 1: the use of the term Algonquin towards the beginning of 298 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: the podcast. It was used as though the Algonquins were 299 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: a specific tribe, when in fact, is an umbrella term 300 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 1: for all of the Native Americans in the area. It 301 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: would be similar to referring to Eskimos as the name 302 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: of a tribe when they're actually a broader group of 303 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 1: people than that. You were correct in your usage of 304 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: poatans as being an encompassing term for all of the 305 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: tribes that chief Popotan, which was his nickname. Incidentally, his 306 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: real name was Jahansen aclum I. Hope I said that correctly, 307 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: so he was Poetan was a term for all the 308 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 1: tribes that he ran over. Thank you for sending that, 309 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: because one of my biggest frustrations and working on this 310 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:47,679 Speaker 1: podcast was how loose and inaccurate all of the writing, 311 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,479 Speaker 1: not all, but much of the writing from sources who 312 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: wants to have known better, uh, was about the various 313 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: Native Americans who were in the area. Well, and it's inconsistent. 314 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: So you can't like compare to sources to validate each 315 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: other without getting into a really deep conundrum pretty quickly. Yeah, uh. 316 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: And and Kira said that it also took her some 317 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 1: time to figure that out when she was working on 318 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 1: her thesis. Um so, yeah, a lot of the writing 319 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: about the Native Americans in the area at the time, 320 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 1: some of it just straight up says the Indians, as 321 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 1: though that is accurate. Uh, And a lot of it 322 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 1: that those writers were having the same problem probably, So 323 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: how can I word this where it's technically correct but 324 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: maybe not accurate, right, And and then there's a lot 325 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: of things that are used interchangeably that are not actually interchangeable. 326 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: So thank you for providing that clarification here. So now 327 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: on to the second part. The second and more important 328 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 1: point was when you mentioned that during that awful winter 329 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: of sixteen o eight and o nine, the colonists had 330 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 1: run out of copper and blue beans and stated this 331 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: as being the reason why they could not secure adequate 332 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: trade deals with the Powatans. This actually could not be 333 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: any farther from being correct. The emphasis of my thesis 334 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,199 Speaker 1: dealt with the starving time in particular, and this was 335 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: one of the more difficult portions to find tune, so 336 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: I understand where someone could go wrong with the presented information. 337 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 1: What actually happened was that the English, as well as 338 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: the French and Dutch colonists throughout North America, had oversaturated 339 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: the Native American market with copper and blue beads. The 340 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: market was so overly saturated that the items no longer 341 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: held monetary value that the English had planned on, so 342 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: they still retained their spiritual significance, but because they were 343 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: so easy to come by, the power Tans were quite 344 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 1: the competent businessman, and then the English were in desperate straits. 345 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: The English actually had a large supply of beads and 346 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 1: copper on hand, but their value had decreased so much 347 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: that they were trading large bags full of blue beads 348 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: for a few bustles of corn, when in the past 349 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: they had been able to get the same amount of 350 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: corn for only a handful of beads. This problem actually 351 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: led to John Smith threatening to chew to shoot Chief 352 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 1: Powatan's brother opekan Canoe. It is speculated that Opi con Canoe, ever, 353 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: never forgave him for this and how the perpetual grudge 354 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: against the colonists until the massacre of or at least 355 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: that's what I concluded in my thesis. Um. She talked 356 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: about authors Karen Cooperman, Helen Rowntree, and Carl Brandenball do 357 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 1: a fantastic job of illustrating these issues in their various 358 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: books about Jamestown. Thank you so much for providing this. Also, Yeah, 359 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,719 Speaker 1: it's so cool to Haven and Jamestown scholars. Yeah, and 360 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: that was straight up my error. Uh, the sources that 361 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: I had used kind of glossed over the way part 362 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: of why they had gone from trading copper and beads 363 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: and instead we're trading extremely valuable items that they could 364 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: not really bear to part with, like swords that are 365 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: needed for survival. Um. And that was sort of my 366 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 1: incorrectly filling in that blank because it had been sort 367 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: of not really acknowledged in my sources. So thank you 368 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 1: so much, Kira for writing to us. This is awesome information. UM. 369 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: I love owning mistakes when we make genuine, genuine mistakes, 370 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 1: because that that makes us have better knowledge. If you 371 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: would like to write to us about this or any 372 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: other topic, you can at History podcast at discovery dot com. 373 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: We're also on Twitter at misston History and on Facebook 374 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: at Facebook dot com slash history, class Stuff. You can 375 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: find our tumbler at mist in history dot tumbler dot com, 376 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:24,199 Speaker 1: and we are on Pinterest too. 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