1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: back to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always 3 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. Let's get uh, you know, Max, 4 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,279 Speaker 1: as our super producer, you run the sound cues. Can 5 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: we get some like kind of military music, maybe like 6 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 1: a little fife and a drum with your woo. Doesn't 7 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: have to be good military, absolutely not, absolutely not so 8 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: what even as good military? I mean, you know, it's 9 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: just meant to focus sense of patriotism. And further, I'm 10 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know what good is, but I 11 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: can definitely find a lot of bad. Yeah. I I 12 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: was in a surprisingly thorough conversation with some good friends 13 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,759 Speaker 1: over the weekend about the national anthem of the United States, 14 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: which is the Star Spangled Banner and is objectively just 15 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: kind of an awkward song most people, you know, every 16 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: few years you'll see a ground swell of support, sometimes jokingly, 17 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: sometimes serious, to change the national anthem to something like 18 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,279 Speaker 1: America the Beautiful, or you know, a song that feels 19 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: a little less unwieldy in the mouth and the lungs. 20 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: But it's gotta it's gotta got, it's gonna have a 21 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: good mouth. Field. By the way, Yes, they called me 22 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: ben in many parts of the country and abroad. And 23 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: right now is we are recording we are based in 24 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: the United States here at ridiculous history. Despite having fifty 25 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: very widely varied states that comprise as the Union as 26 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: well as territories and overseas possessions, the US is one country. 27 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: A while back this was not the case. There was 28 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 1: something called the Civil War in the United States, and 29 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: had we had the Confederacy had its way, then they 30 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: would be there would be two separate countries where the 31 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: US is one today. And it's funny because spending so 32 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: much time in the South, as the three of us have, 33 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 1: we have all run into people who have their own 34 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: kind of spin on the narrative of the Civil War. 35 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: One of the most stereotypical you'll hear, and it is 36 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: a true stereotype, is you'll hear people say something egregiously incorrect. 37 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: They'll say, the Civil War was not really about the 38 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: enslavement of human beings. It was about individual and state rights. 39 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: And that's pretty much not the case. So so that's 40 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: sort of what we wanted to explore today. You know, 41 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 1: I completely agree with you. That is definitely not the case, 42 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,959 Speaker 1: and just sort of like a whitewashed spin off and 43 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: employed by people who reside in the South and maybe 44 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: still maintain some sort of sense of patriotism around you know, 45 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: their region. Nothing wrong with having a you know, pride 46 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: in your history and where you grow up, but it's 47 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 1: difficult and it's made complicated if you come from a 48 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: tradition that has kind of steeped in racism and and 49 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: an apologism for something as awful as slavery. So it 50 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: makes sense that you want to flip the narratives. They know, 51 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: actually it was about this other thing, but it definitely 52 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: was about more than just slavery. It was about identity, 53 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: it was about some of those states rights things. But 54 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: the biggie that actually caused it to go into a 55 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: full on hot you know war, was slavery. That was 56 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: the biggest issue, right, And you can see people arguing 57 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: that the causes for the conflict were much more nuanced, 58 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: but ultimately came down to that. So when you hear 59 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: a body say, well, there were a lot of economic 60 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: factors of play, you have to realize that one of 61 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: the big economic factors at play was indeed the practice 62 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: of mass enslavement that was a part of the South's economy, 63 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: and we wanted to look at the idea of individual rights, 64 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 1: which are often touted as one of the causual factors 65 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: leading to the Confederacy's attempt at secession from the Union. 66 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: But as we're gonna find in today's episode, the Confederacy 67 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: when it was around wasn't quite the champion of individual 68 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,679 Speaker 1: rights that later revisionists would claim it to be. Between 69 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty two and eighteen sixty five, officers of the 70 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: Confederate District of North Carolina confiscated and sold millions of 71 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: dollars eighteen hundreds millions of dollars worth of property from 72 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 1: North Carolinans who had been a used to be alien enemies. Right, 73 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: that's a fun term. And when we're gonna dig a 74 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: little deeper into today, all of the cash that was 75 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: procured from the sale of those properties was then sent 76 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: to Richmond, and a lot of it was just buried. 77 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: It was essentially theft. There was never a paper trail 78 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,119 Speaker 1: as to what happened to that money. Many of the 79 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: court officers of that area, like David Shank, for example, 80 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: of Lincoln County, all of a sudden overnight became quite 81 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 1: wealthy as as a result of imposing these laws. One 82 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: particularly known as the Act of Sequestrations A great word. 83 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: It makes me think of castration for some reason. I mean, 84 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: it's essentially taking something from somebody and keeping it for yourself, 85 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: you know, under the pretense of some sort of like 86 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: legal framework, like well, you know, you're acting outside of 87 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: the the bounds of the law, or it's sort of 88 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: like maybe the levalent might be. Let's say there's like 89 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: a drug lord or drug cartel money that's wrapped up 90 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: in property, and then the d e A seizes it 91 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: and they can justify doing that because they say, well, 92 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: you broke the law, so therefore we now own what 93 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: is yours and we will you know, funnel that money 94 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: into whatever else or the very least confiscated. But this 95 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: was like that without nearly as ironclad a defense and 96 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 1: and not any paper trail. Yeah. And the modern version 97 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: to various repo laws also have a lot of problems 98 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 1: here in the States in twenty two. You know, often 99 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: if you see a police car that looks really cool 100 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: and tricked out and you're wondering how that how that 101 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: department ended up with this absolute beast of a sports 102 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 1: car as a cop car, it might have gotten repoed 103 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: from a drug dealer. Also, there's a lot of litigation 104 00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: ongoing now regarding the idea that in certain rays of 105 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: the country law enforcement can just take cash if they 106 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: think it's suspicious, and it can be very difficult for people, 107 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: even innocent people, to get that cash back. This law, 108 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: this Confederate law, the active sequestration, was actually kind of 109 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: a clapback. Oddly enough. It was a reaction to the 110 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: law passed by the Union, the First Confiscation Act of 111 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: August six, eighteen sixty one. This laid out a legal 112 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: mechanism for Northern forces to take the property of Southerners 113 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: if those Southerners were suspected of aiding the rebellion or 114 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: if their property was being used to aid the rebellion. Now, 115 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: think about the word property at this time, fellow ridiculous historians. 116 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: This is not explicitly mentioned in the First Confiscation Act itself, 117 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: but it was later you know, was widely understood and 118 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: then officially confirmed by the Executive branch at the time 119 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: that property included enslaved people. And this really peeled the 120 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: Confederate forces because they said, hey, we're protecting individual rights, 121 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: the rights of individuals, including property rights, and without a 122 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: shred of irony, without a shred of acknowledgement of the 123 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: Orwellian double thing. Here, the Southerners who said they had 124 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: these individual rights also said that one of their individual 125 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: rights was the ability to own other individual human beings. 126 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,719 Speaker 1: And they did not think that was weird, No, they 127 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: should didn't. They thought it was just great. They really 128 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: liked it. They they gotta bet the farm on that one, 129 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: ben yeh. And thankfully they lost in a stunning turn 130 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: of events. But that's not exactly where we're going today. 131 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: Let's just talk about it's a clapback idea. That's the thing, 132 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: right when you have like a war between the states, 133 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: where you're technically existing under one government, but then one 134 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: side decides, you know what, that government doesn't represent my interest. 135 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: We're going to form our own. You've got a lot 136 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: of things that are pretty much out of whack, and 137 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: people writing rules as they go, and then you know, 138 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: one side writes a rule and says, well, this is 139 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: what we're abiding behind, how we're going to proceed, and 140 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: then the other side gets to basically do the same. 141 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: So you get a lot of one upsmanship and back 142 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 1: and forth three and um chaos essentially ensues because there's 143 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: really no rhyme or reason and it's all about who 144 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: can Yeah, I I legally based on this you know, 145 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: idea that we just came up, we can take your property. 146 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 1: But the question becomes can you hold it? You know? 147 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: The question becomes can you defend it? And what are 148 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 1: you gonna do about it if I try to take 149 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: it back? So it's it's all this like charade of 150 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: legal ease that essentially is just like what war is. 151 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: I take what's yours, you come back and me and 152 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: you take what's mine, and we see how it all 153 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: shakes out in the end. But let's talk about the 154 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: idea of what is an alien enemy? Ben Like, that's 155 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: another Orwellian double thing, the idea we all live in 156 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:56,439 Speaker 1: the same country and yet now all of a sudden, 157 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: we're dealing with alien enemies. Right, Yeah, that's that's why 158 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: just uh god. Not even a month after the Union 159 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: passed the Confiscation Act, the Jefferson Davis administration running the Confederacy, 160 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: they responded with the Confederate Active Sequestration that was August 161 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: sixty one, This is where we get to those alien enemies. 162 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 1: So they wanted to strike at northern financial interests within 163 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: the Confederate States. And so they appointed these Confederate agents. 164 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: And it was actually very easy to be appointed. We'll 165 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: see it turns into a witch hunt. These Confederate agents 166 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 1: would locate quote all in every lands, tenements, hereditiments, goods, 167 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: and channels, rights and credits within those Confederate States, and 168 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: every writing interest therein held owned, possessed, or enjoyed by 169 00:10:55,920 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: or for any alien enemy. Uh So, first off, points 170 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: to hereditaments. Yes, good lord, we've learned a new word today. Yeah, 171 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna start using that with uh. The second want 172 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 1: to shout out New York Times this. We're getting a 173 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: lot of this from a great blog, the opinion Eat 174 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:22,199 Speaker 1: or Corruption in the Confederacy Rodney Steward written in So, yeah, 175 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: no alien enemies. This is strange because they may well 176 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: be talking about people who have grown up in the 177 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: South right who just didn't support the Civil or didn't 178 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: support the Confederacy in the Civil War. They also talked 179 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: about clearly maybe people who did business, say in Georgia, 180 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: but they were you know, their real home was in 181 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 1: New York or something like that, and this idea was 182 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: that they would it's almost like their nationalizing this stuff 183 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: is what we would call it today, Right, they take it, 184 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: it all go to the c s A, not your local, 185 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: not your local fruit and veg delivery service, but the 186 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: Confederate States of America, and then they would sell that 187 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: off at an auction and the proceeds would go into 188 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: a fund. And then if you were a loyal Confederate, 189 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: you could submit a claim to get a cut of 190 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: that pie, a piece of that pie, a cut of 191 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:27,079 Speaker 1: that So weird, so random, like well, I can't think 192 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: of really any equivalent of that today or anything like it. 193 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: Like it's it's very odd, like like what am I 194 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: entitled to in that same way? I mean, is it 195 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: sort of like insurance? Like what what what would your 196 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: claim be? Like I am a loyal Confederate, therefore give 197 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: me money from this car? Or do we have to 198 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: prove damages in some way? Is it like a like 199 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: a class action lawsuit? Like I don't understand. It's very unclear, 200 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: and I think that's by design, honestly, And I don't 201 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: think we're gonna get an answer to this, Like the 202 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: idea even of what idental what it meant to be 203 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: a quote true and loyal citizen couldn't be any more vague. 204 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 1: And then like this idea of indemnity, this indemnity clause, 205 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: Like what are the criteria for making such a claim, 206 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: and like what would entitle me to more or less 207 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: than my fellow, you know, true and loyal citizen. Well, 208 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: let's say, just for an example, this is a good question. 209 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: So indemnity means security or protection against some kind of loss. 210 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: So if you are a true Confederate, however nebulously defined, 211 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: let's say that you lost your house or your farm 212 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: in an attack or occupation by Union soldiers. In theory, 213 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: you could go to the c s A And say, 214 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: these Yankees took my stuff, I need a place for 215 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: my family, I need funds to build something new or 216 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: something like that. And then again, in theory, they would 217 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: pony up the cash. However, you can already see this 218 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: was very very right for corruption. True confederate might be 219 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: someone who knows the person at the Treasury Department she 220 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: was a charge of saying this claim is legit, and 221 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: then boom, boom boom, one hand washes the other people 222 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: are scratching their backs left and right figuratively. And there 223 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: is no criteria in any of the writing about this. 224 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: There's no criteria that tells tells the public what constitutes 225 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: a true and loyal citizen. I think that's what we're 226 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: talking about when we say corruption. And they stole the 227 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: idea of alien enemies from the North from the Federalist era. 228 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: But but they couldn't they couldn't really use those definitions 229 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: because the folks the Lincoln administration considered enemies they were 230 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: true foreigners, right, they were like from another country, Yeah, right, right, 231 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: they were not aliens. And again I just have to 232 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: shout out all my fellow X Files Unsolved Mystery nerds. Yes, 233 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: the bummer that they're saying aliens, but they mean people. 234 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: As much as I want there to be uh an 235 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: extraterrestrial contingent in the Civil War in the US, so 236 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: far history proofs that it's not the case. So you know, 237 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: that's what imaginations are for, Ben and I think, you know, 238 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: feel free every time we say aliens. Just picture your 239 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: little green, tentacled or whatever creature of choice. But it's right, 240 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: the Lincoln um administration couldn't use this law to address 241 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: what was happening in the Civil War, because their whole 242 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: kind of framework for the war and justification for the 243 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: war was dependent on not treating the Southerners as aliens 244 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: or foreign invaders. It was to treat them as Americans. 245 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: That was the whole point. It was a different kind 246 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: of war. So the military prisons in the North were 247 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: starting to become overcrowded with Southern born citizens and Southern 248 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: residents from some of these occupied areas. They started to 249 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: refer to them more as political prisoners rather than alien enemies, 250 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: which is interesting because you noticed they didn't go immediately 251 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: to prisoners of war. They became political prisoners. The Confederacy 252 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: did not have the same compunction or hesitancy about calling 253 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: people from the North alien enemies, because you know, they're 254 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: on the other side of this argument. To them, the 255 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: entire point of the conflict is to prove the South 256 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: is its own distinct and separate nation, and there was 257 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: pretty much a unanimous consensus that it was legally okay 258 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: to take any Union property. They said, look, the US 259 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: is belligerent, it's actively a war with us, and that means, 260 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: due to the laws of war, we can confiscate their stuff, 261 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: and they even consulted international law on this. They said, 262 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: doing this will help us assert our sovereignty in a 263 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,719 Speaker 1: new way, and it will also allow us to move 264 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: much more quickly than those jerks in the North because 265 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 1: they won't call us alien enemies. But we have no 266 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,439 Speaker 1: problem doing that to them. So, you know, if it 267 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 1: doesn't matter if you're a US citizen, we're at war 268 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: with the US. So that means the under Confederate law, 269 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: you're a foreigner, and yes we have a Confederate Constitution, 270 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: but you do not get the protections of that. You alien, 271 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: you enemy. And Noah was safe from this either. I mean, 272 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: no matter how big your wig was. I mean, they 273 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: were gonna take your stuff. You know, the cops were 274 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: gonna come and try to snatch your crops. And the 275 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: crops that got snatched worth even the ones on Monticello 276 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: didn't he grow hamp Thomas Jefferson made that Cypress Hill 277 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: reference there, uh of them snatching his crops because those 278 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: pigs wanted to blow his house down, and his house 279 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: was Monticello, which was in Virginia, which is a you know, 280 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: it's I think of Virginia as sort of that like 281 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: middle ground between the North and the South. You know, 282 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: it's got sort of like a hybrid sensibility. You know, 283 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: it's a little more kind of a hippie kind of town. 284 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: Don't really think of them as pure Southerners. But then 285 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: you have to remember, like back in the day, Virginia 286 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: was like Tobacco Country. I mean, it really was still 287 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: very much the South the same way I kind of 288 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: think of like Missouri, you know, like it's sort of 289 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 1: straddles the divide between the two ideologies. But to the Confederates, 290 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 1: it was in their territory. So on October eleventh, eighteen 291 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: sixty one, the Richmond and Choir reported that a Confederate 292 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 1: court officially ruled that Monticello is fair game to be confiscated. 293 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: If you guys don't know Monticello was, you know, it's 294 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: still a place I think you can visit today. But 295 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 1: that was Thomas Jefferson's like, you know, uh, family estate 296 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: and House of amorous Shame, which is a story for 297 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: another day, but one that is absolutely true or a 298 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: family show. So we'll go to two into it. Yeah, yeah, 299 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: you can visit Monticello today. And this takes place just 300 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 1: a few weeks after the Confederate Congress passes that act, 301 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: and at the time, of course, Thomas Jefferson is long gone. 302 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: Monticello is owned by a US Naval Captain Uriah P. 303 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: Levy of Pennsylvania, and whenever I hear Uriah, I always 304 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: think of the wonderful Grinch story. Check it out, and 305 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: then go check out the Grinch Halloween Special, which is 306 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:25,239 Speaker 1: even weirder. Yeah, I love it. Halloween is indeed Grinch Night. 307 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 1: I think that's one of my favorite Dr. Seuss things. 308 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: I love it. I I still like, what does the 309 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: Grinch do? That's so scary? Anyway, I'll watch it again. 310 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 1: He's just a spooky guy. He's an agent of chaos. Yeah. Uh. 311 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 1: Anyhow So, also before Dr Dr Seuss pronounced Dr Soyce, 312 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: if you want to be a lot of fun at parties, uh, 313 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: there were these two Virginians who were managing the estate 314 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: on behalf of Captain Levy. They were Joel Wheeler and 315 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: George Carr. They were out of Charlottesville and be because 316 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: Levy was a U. S citizen, the Confederates called him 317 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: an alien enemy. And because they called him an alien 318 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:11,160 Speaker 1: enemy and not a true Confederate, all of his property 319 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: within the boundaries of the Confederacy was up for grabs. 320 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: They were gonna take it. They were gonna sell it 321 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 1: and give the proceeds to any true Confederate citizens who 322 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: had lost out something due to the war with the Union. Yeah, 323 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: and I apologize if I overstated the case there. This 324 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: was this was Thomas Jefferson's estate, but at this point 325 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: he no longer owned it, but it was still represented 326 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: that kind of northern ideology. Yeah. Uh. And and that's 327 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: and they knew this was a spectacle, right, this was 328 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: a propagandistics move as well. So the Confederate courts that 329 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 1: have to make this law actually work. They seized the 330 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 1: estate and it had three and sixty acres of land. 331 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: They assessed it twenty dollars an acre, along with a house, 332 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: and they called other improvements and they put the price 333 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: there at two thousand, five hundred. Then they confiscated for 334 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,239 Speaker 1: the whole house. Well, yeah, but this is again, this 335 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 1: is in the eighteen hundreds. Oh yeah, I know, it's 336 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: just still And then they also took any other property 337 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: they could find the Captain Levy owned nearby, including nine 338 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 1: hundred sixty acres of land as well as eight horses, 339 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 1: sixteen head of cattle, seventy eight sheep, thirty hogs, and 340 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: then quote a lot of household and kitchen furniture. So 341 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: they took all this ikea stuff as well, perhaps most 342 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: notably ten enslaved people. Again, the Confederacy considered them property, 343 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: so they took possession of these people. Then I think 344 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: I understand my my confusion here there are two separate 345 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: figures of the house was thats just for the house 346 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 1: and stuff inside of it, and the rest of it 347 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: was the lot and the land, which was twenty bucks 348 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: an acre um, which was like what around three hundred 349 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,719 Speaker 1: and sixty acres? Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly, So that would 350 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: make the land itself about seven thousand, two hundred dollars. 351 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: And just so we can all get on the same 352 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: page mentally, because it is weird money and numbers, let 353 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: us pop this in the old handy dandy inflation calculator. 354 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: Carry the one. Guys, I want to do some jokes too, 355 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: but I'm actually doing the math. Math is the greatest 356 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: joke of all, all right, I had to hang out 357 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 1: for a second actually actually do the calculations. So this 358 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 1: gets us to a grand total of just under ten 359 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. Illusion, we have a we have a thing. 360 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: I was allowed to participate in imagine. I had to 361 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: do the math. So it's nine thousand, seven hundred dollars. 362 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: That's the equivalent two hundred and twenty eight thousand, five 363 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: hundred eighty nine dollars in twenty five cents, which is 364 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 1: a lot of money. But you know, also it mightself 365 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 1: it sounds weird, isn't it, because maybe it's the housing 366 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: prices exploding in the US today, But that there are 367 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: a lot of people who say, that's not a bad 368 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: deal for all that land and a house. But here's 369 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: the thing. It wasn't like this was actually benefiting the 370 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: little guys, the little Confederate people's you know, this is 371 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: all mainly design based on the size of your wig, 372 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: you know, like how how much you were going to 373 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 1: benefit from these seizures, how much you were going to 374 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: be able to build that quote unquote public funds? Right, yeah, yeah, 375 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: So they ran into a lot of corruption, like we said, 376 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: they also they ran into some unexpected difficulties figuring out 377 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 1: what was Northern owned property and where it was located. 378 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: Because the Confederates, the authorities at least had to rely 379 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:54,959 Speaker 1: on volunteered information. In many cases, ordinary Confederate citizens true 380 00:23:55,080 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: or otherwise, if if they thought that somebody is withholding 381 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,919 Speaker 1: information and not playing ball or not playing the fife 382 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: as it were at this time, then those Confederate officials 383 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 1: had these enormous legal powers to search out and find 384 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: property to confiscate. This is where it becomes a witch hunt. 385 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: There were two newly created parts of the Confederate d 386 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: o J. Department of Justice called receivers and Federal Grand Juries. 387 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: So receivers are like our inquisitors here. They go out 388 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: and they chase down rumors. I'm doing my arms like 389 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: this because it's like you're riding a horse or whatever. Yeah, 390 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 1: they cup. They go out and they chase down these 391 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: wisp of speculation, and they say, okay, we're gonna find 392 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: stuff that might belong to a northerner on the other side, 393 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 1: kind of like law and Order has the cops and 394 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: then the and then the courts. Doom doom. The federal 395 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: grand juries interrogate people whose loyalty is suspect, And the 396 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: problem with that is anybody's loyalty could be considered suspect, 397 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 1: so there's no real oversight there's nobody really stopping them. 398 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: This is to the point where like if you were 399 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: influential in a federal grand jury and you're going to 400 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: pursue the affections of maybe say someone you wanted to 401 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: marry but she preferred some other guy to you, then 402 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: you could literally go to your buddies on the court 403 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,959 Speaker 1: and say, you know who is probably not a true confederate. 404 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: This guy keeps hitting on Amelia and they would be like, 405 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: sounds legit, and hey, you know, maybe I'm beat unfair. 406 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: Maybe that wasn't the case. We'll never know because they 407 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: left like no paperwork. This was no paper trail situation. Yeah, 408 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: we sort of alluded to that from the start, the 409 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: idea that that's where corruption can run the most rampant 410 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: of them. There's no oversight or the very least no 411 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: accountability where you can't really tell where the money is 412 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: going where it came from the idea of that you mentioned, 413 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: which hunt Ben, because that's what it becomes when it's 414 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: just word of mouth. I could say, hey, Ben's a 415 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: Union loyalist, you know, and he owns this tool shed 416 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: over there in the next neighborhood. You better go grab it. 417 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,120 Speaker 1: They're probably just gonna grab it. Is it war anyway? 418 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: They're trying to justify it with some sort of vague 419 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: claim of like ownership or some vague claim of like justice, 420 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:31,959 Speaker 1: you know, and like, oh, we we have to do 421 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: this in order to protect our people. But it's really 422 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,360 Speaker 1: all just about it as a cash grab and it's 423 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: a way to enrich the already rich. And then what 424 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: are you gonna like, you're gonna dispute it where where 425 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: are you gonna fill out this document in this this 426 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: comment card? So actually you you totally confiscated my property unlawfully, 427 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: because it's all unlawful. It's all about which side is 428 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: saying that it's lawful. It's lawful based on our rules, 429 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: it's completely unlawful based on your rules. It's like the 430 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 1: whole freedom fighter versus terrorist argument, or the way David 431 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 1: Busters can say that David Busters card counts his currency 432 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: in their store, but not anywhere else. I've tried it, 433 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: don't do it. So and the exchange rates is vague 434 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 1: because like you know, the David Busters, it's not like 435 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: a game cost like cents, and you know what that 436 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: amounts to on the card, it's some fraction of a 437 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: credit that is always changing and influx sort of like 438 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,719 Speaker 1: buying airline tickets with like sky miles. It's all up 439 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: to them to decide what the exchange rate is and 440 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: you never really can bank on it or no depend 441 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: on what it's going to be from day to day. 442 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 1: And this obstucation worked really well for UH, for airlines 443 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: and David Busters and for the Confederate government. So the 444 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: the bureaucracy here was super complex. We know that, but 445 00:27:54,880 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: the receivers don't usually leave a record of how they 446 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: got involved with seizing property these grand juries. They had 447 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: secret identities, so they were not accountable to the public 448 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: any interrogations they had where they kept minutes or notes. 449 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: Those written notes were destroyed after each and every session. 450 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 1: There were no detailed records of all the property that 451 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: had been taken, and there was no real visibility into 452 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 1: how much each property sold for an auction. Receivers only 453 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: talked about the properties that were sold. So this all 454 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: exists under a very corrupt umbrella of enigma and shadowy dealings. 455 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: It was kind of like the Ppe loan controversy, right, 456 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: who gets the money? We can't tell you. So again 457 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: we know that there may have also been conflicting definitions 458 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: of loyal confederate and alien enemy, depending on which official 459 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: you asked, how messed up is that, Like, well, this 460 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: family has been here for four generations, they're true Confederates, 461 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: they're older than the Confederacy. Or yeah, I know this 462 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: guy is in the Confederate Army now, but I don't 463 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: think he's a true Confederate because I don't like the 464 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: way he says you all, or something like that. Could 465 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: be that arbitrary doesn't quite sit right with me. No, no, 466 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: it doesn't. So these judges, for example, could absolutely rule 467 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: with an iron fists. Their word was was binding at least, 468 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: you know, in at the time, under these circumstances, and 469 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: there were Confederate judges. Asa Biggs, for example, was the 470 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: judge of the North Carolina Confederate District Court. He appointed 471 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: every single officer in his court in North Carolina personally, 472 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: and that included the virulently secessionist David Shank, who will 473 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: become a very interesting case study in the depths of 474 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: of corruption and that this whole arrangement created. So the 475 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: classification of the Union as this these foreign alien enemies 476 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: was very, very very important. Had a lot of far 477 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: reaching kind of implications. So while the North had similar 478 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: apparatus that that that would assess individuals loyalties and and 479 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: and do chain of custody on property in order to confiscate, 480 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: the South had no such apparatus, So they could essentially 481 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,479 Speaker 1: confiscate a property without ever having the individual have their 482 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: day in court, you know, literally. So they had a 483 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: very very aggressive system of confiscation, and they did it 484 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: pretty much willy nilly. By eighteen sixty five, the Confederacy 485 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: had seized and sold millions of dollars worth of property 486 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: worth of Northern property that was located all over the South. 487 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: And let's remember our our our handy dandy inflation calculator 488 00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: segment where Monticello was basically valuated the two d and 489 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: three hundred thousand dollar range we're talking, and that was, 490 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: you know, a really pretty nice place. We're talking millions 491 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: of dollars in eighteen sixties and money. So this is 492 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: an absolute feeding frenzy. And this is where this is 493 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: where David Shank becomes unfortunately an excellent example for our purposes, 494 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: because earlier I had said, you know, pretty much all 495 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: the receivers with very few exceptions didn't leave a written 496 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: record of their activities. Shank is a little bit different 497 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: because he did write things down. He didn't have the 498 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: most prestigious beginnings. He was a middle class lawyer by 499 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: no means a wealthy guy. He was struggling and he 500 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: got put out of work because of something called the 501 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: Stay Act in North Carolina. This decimated or reduced by 502 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: a factor of ten, the number of cases and the 503 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: types of cases that could go to the court. He 504 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: did have a small farm on the outskirts of link Inton. 505 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: He owned no slaves. He started working as a receiver 506 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: in the Western Piedmont and just and this was in 507 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: September eighteen sixty two. In just a few days after 508 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: he started, he began bragging to himself in his diary. 509 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: He said, I've already sold twenty thousand dollars worth of 510 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: sequestered real estate, and that was bigger than the value 511 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: of all the taxable property into local counties combined. We 512 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: know that other receivers like c In White, sold three 513 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 1: hundred fifty four acres of cotton land for five dollars 514 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: an acre at an auction. And then if we use 515 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,719 Speaker 1: see in White's numbers as a reference, we know that 516 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: Shank would have sold four thousand acres of land around 517 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: the same time period, and then he started buying enslaved people, 518 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: and then he started buying land to build a new house. 519 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: And at the end of just one year he estimated 520 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: his earnings to be nine thousand dollars. So whatever their 521 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: ideology may have actually been, these receivers were making money 522 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: hand over fist, and there was like it was just 523 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: so corrupt. It was so corrupt individual rights went out 524 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: the window. Well, so also think about like I mean 525 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: again back to the inflation. You know, if you're amassing 526 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: this level of wealth by taking it from others, you know, 527 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: in theory, you're amassing what will become generational wealth. They 528 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: will be passed down to you know, future members of 529 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: your family, and that will appreciate and become like, you know, 530 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: the makings of an empire. That's what this guy Shank 531 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: was doing. Wouldn't you say, yeah, yeah, let's look at 532 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: how dirty the money gets here as well. So I'm 533 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: laughing because uh, he was paid in Confederate currency, is 534 00:33:55,000 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: the issue, and Confederate currency was depreciating pretty rapidly, like 535 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: on a daily basis. But we know it reminds me 536 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: of that palette of US dollars. There was like a 537 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,399 Speaker 1: billion dollars that just disappeared during either the Gulf War 538 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 1: the war in Afghanistan. Because yeah, because there's no oversight, 539 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 1: we have to kind of guess at the gaps and 540 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 1: read between the financial lines. So his district only sent 541 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: three thousand, six hundred ten dollars and cents to the 542 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: Confederate Treasury in eighteen sixty two. Official records say he 543 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 1: was paid just under three to cover his expenses while 544 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: he was working as a receiver, so like you know, 545 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: his per diem. Basically, there is no evidence that all 546 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: the money from confiscated property sold at auction ever made 547 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 1: it to this sequestration fund. So what seems to be 548 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: the case, and not to not cast unfair aspersion, but 549 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: what seems to be the case is that these guys 550 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:09,760 Speaker 1: saw the opportunity in the chaos and they just started 551 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:14,720 Speaker 1: seizing stuff, selling it, maybe putting a little bit into 552 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 1: the community kitty, but then keeping the rest for themselves. 553 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, that's almost certainly what happened, 554 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,240 Speaker 1: at least in this guy's case, which leads to another question. Noel, 555 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: who was buying all this stuff. Who who is like 556 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 1: saying They're saying, well, I know there's a war on, 557 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: but I always kind of liked Monticello. Yeah, let's get 558 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: a deal, you know, why not. So in Wilmington's you 559 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: had a guy named du Brutes Cutler's great great name. 560 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,840 Speaker 1: He was seizing real estate that belonged to J. B. 561 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,320 Speaker 1: Allen when one of their neighbors, a guy named William Gordon, 562 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 1: accused Allan of being this loyal there's the weares of 563 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 1: the witch hunt kicks in the full swinging. When Cutler 564 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: auction the property of Alan, it was then bought by 565 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 1: William Gordon. So in Union County, a receiver by the 566 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 1: name of C. N. White sold mineral rights, which we 567 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 1: know is a thing. It's basically like life rights for 568 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: a story, but it's the right to drill, you know, 569 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,319 Speaker 1: on a piece of property, the rights you know, for 570 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 1: a certain period of time, on two acres of land 571 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,799 Speaker 1: to a fellow named Robert Hall Morrison, who was the 572 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: father in law of the General's Daniel Harvey Hill and 573 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: Thomas J. Stonewall Jackson. You might have heard him. Morrison 574 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 1: had acquired this land bordering land that he had purchased 575 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: from White. Um. So Shank came out of the Civil 576 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 1: War owning six lots in lincolnn and uh lots of 577 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 1: other smaller parcels nearby. Um, what happened to the officers 578 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: of the North Carolina District Court, you might be asking yourself. Well, 579 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: du Brutes cutler Um such a great name, and Asa 580 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: Biggs were lawyers in tar Borough and Wilmington, And David 581 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 1: Shank was a lawyer in Lincolnton after the war, and 582 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: he would go on to become a superior court judge 583 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 1: for the ninth Judicial District and also the leader of 584 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: the Ku Klux Klan. Yeah, in western North Carolina. So 585 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 1: back to what I said, I mean he he had 586 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: amassed what would amount to a lifelong legacy of property 587 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,360 Speaker 1: and wealth that is clearly wrapped up in pretty awful 588 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 1: racism and uh just terrible nous all around. Yeah, that's 589 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,319 Speaker 1: what I would say it the whole time. It's it 590 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 1: doesn't matter how people felt about the philosophical differences or 591 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: ideological differences between the North and the South. At that time, 592 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: it was inescapably inarguably corrupt. And it was also due 593 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:59,240 Speaker 1: to the the statements of later revisionists. It was also 594 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:05,480 Speaker 1: clearly a hypocritical endeavor. Individual rights were not being respected 595 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 1: in any shape, form or fashion here except when it 596 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 1: was convenient to do so, which makes it, officially I 597 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:17,279 Speaker 1: posit ridiculous history. And there's much more we could go 598 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: into in this regard, but I think this is where 599 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,320 Speaker 1: we wrapped the story up for today. It is also, 600 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 1: to be fair, it is also very common in any 601 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,400 Speaker 1: conflict for a lot of corruption to occur, for a 602 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 1: lot of stuff to go missing, just like the palette 603 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,239 Speaker 1: of money I mentioned earlier, that's a true story from 604 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: modern history. Or just like you know, munitions, property, anything 605 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,839 Speaker 1: can be up for grabs. But luckily I've got one 606 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,839 Speaker 1: thing that's not up for grabs, which is you are 607 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,879 Speaker 1: fantastic ridiculous historians. Thank you as always for tuning in. 608 00:38:56,040 --> 00:39:00,359 Speaker 1: Thanks also to our superproducer, the one and only Mr 609 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 1: Max Williams, who just kissed the sky. That was just 610 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. Also, hughs. Thanks Chris 611 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 1: Frosciodas here in spirit He's Jeff Coats, Jonathan Strickler, and 612 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 1: the quiz sterre he may ever, ever, may he rain 613 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,400 Speaker 1: in quiz quizzendom Man. Thanks to you, Ben, this was 614 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: a weird one, fun one, but I think important one. Agreed. Agreed, Max, 615 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: you want to want to play us out with some 616 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:38,280 Speaker 1: more of that terrible, purposely terrible music. See your next time, folks. 617 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I 618 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 619 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.