1 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here, welcome back to Killers amongst Us, 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartMedia and Crime Online. She's young, she's beautiful, 3 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: she's an expert in the restaurant, in business. She's got 4 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: that magnetic personality, charismatic that everybody wants to be around 5 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: the center of attention with little effort on her part. 6 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: But why would she leave a brand new restaurant she 7 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: and her husband have really just started. I'm Nancy Grace. 8 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: This is Killers amongst Us. They fight among themselves, well, 9 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: they're married and they worked together. She would just get 10 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: fed up in bold employees. See, yeah, they fought, They biggered, 11 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: sometimes in front of the customers. But nothing to write 12 00:00:55,520 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: home about. On the suggestion that Dawn disappears after an argument, 13 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 1: leaving with nothing but her Louis Vuitton bag, a mystery 14 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: text listen. Finally, a friend named Monica comes to police 15 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: with a real clue. Hi, what can we do for you? 16 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: My husband and I have been friends with David and 17 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: Don since they got here, were regulars at the restaurant. Anyway, 18 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 1: I know that she's disappeared, but I actually just got 19 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,479 Speaker 1: a test from her. What does it say? It says 20 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: I'm okay, I'm in Florida. I'm starting over. Pixie. Pixie, 21 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: which is the nickname that David gave Dawn. That text 22 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: message and of itself would explain where Don was and 23 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,839 Speaker 1: it should relieve the worry from her friends. You're hearing 24 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: our friends at Perfect Murder, so starting over, joining me 25 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: an all star panel. Larry Altman, crime reporter Daily Breeze 26 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: at the time, now freelance journalists. He knows everything about 27 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: her disappearance from beginning to end. Joseph's got More, Professor Forensics, 28 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author Blood Beneath My Feet, now the 29 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: star of Poisonous Liaisons on True Crime Network. Chris Buyer's 30 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: former chief of Police, John's Creek, twenty five years as 31 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: a police officer, now p I am polygrapher at Chris 32 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: Buyer's investigations in polygraph dot com. Renowned psychologists joining me. 33 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: Doctor Debbie Joffe Ellis, Adjunct Professor, Columbia University at Debbie 34 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 1: Joffe Ellis dot com. Veteran trial lawyer Daryl Cohen, former 35 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: prosecutor joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, and special 36 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 1: guests joining me. Dawn's brother joining me out of Burlington, Vermont, 37 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 1: Derek Pappin, Dawn's brother from Bradendon, Florida, David and her 38 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: sister Dana joining me from Guardinia, California. To you, Dana, 39 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: do you remember that moment when you first heard that 40 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: Dawn had disappeared, that she took off on her own 41 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: to so called start over? Oh? I do very clearly. 42 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: Tell me. I got a phone call at work from 43 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,839 Speaker 1: Karen Patterson, a close friend of Don's, and I met 44 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: up with her and her husbands and found out the 45 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 1: information from them. And it was a Sunday night, late 46 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: on a Sunday night, and I immediately went to the 47 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: LaMDA shaff station to finally missing person's report because I 48 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: just knew that something was wrong. Now, that's interesting when 49 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: you learned this from a friend of your sisters, you 50 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: went immediately to the sheriff's office. Why what made you 51 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: feel that she had something to fairies had happened? Would 52 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: call it a gut feeling. But also because of the timeline, 53 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: they didn't reach out right away, so it had been 54 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: almost three weeks since anybody had seen her, and that 55 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: just was something that she wouldn't do. You know, she 56 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: would have been in touch with one of my brothers, 57 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: or my father or even our grandmother at the time, 58 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: and none of that had happened. And my instinct told 59 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: me that something was wrong and that I needed to 60 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: fill or police report immediately. You know, to you, Daryl Cohen, 61 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: former prosecutor, now defense attorney, Daryl Cohen, take off your 62 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: defense attorney had just one moment. How many times has 63 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: a case been launched when someone had a quote gut feeling, Nancy. 64 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: I remember as a prosecutor, I used to tell the jury, 65 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: listen to the judge's charges about about the law, listen 66 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 1: to the testimony of the witnesses. But whenever you fail 67 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: to listen, to listen to your gut. If it feels 68 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: wrong in your gut, go do it. It feels right 69 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 1: through it. So to answer your question, when your gut 70 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: is the you go for it and you do what 71 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: needs to be done, regardless of what the facts appear 72 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: to be or not to be. Well, you know the 73 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: law for many, many years, and I've told us to 74 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 1: a jury hundreds of times. You must reach your verdict 75 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: to a moral and reasonable certainty, reasonable head, moral heart. 76 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 1: You have to follow your heart. Let me remind you 77 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: of a case, Daryl Cohen, I'm sure you don't need 78 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: a whole lot of prodding. You remember this Julie Love 79 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: murder case and this gorgeous pre K movement and dance 80 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: teacher goes missing on a jog. Well, first of all, 81 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,359 Speaker 1: did she just disappear? Did she take off on her own? 82 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: And everyone suspected the boyfriend and I went to mister 83 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 1: Slate in our boss and why aren't we and diary 84 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: the boyfriend He's like, ah, let's just wait, let's just wait. 85 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: Sure enough, over a year past and some of her 86 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 1: remains are found out by a dumpster and it ended 87 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 1: up being totally unrelated to the boyfriend. He had a 88 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 1: gut feeling. He had a gut feeling. Remember that, darryl 89 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: Oh I remember it well. And Lewis, though he didn't 90 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 1: try cases, he knew what the case was. He knew 91 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: the value of cases, and he knew when to jump 92 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: and when to sit back and wait and watch. And 93 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: at this instant he waited watched it worked. Sadly. You know, 94 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 1: that's a hard thing to learn to, you know, like 95 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: Kenny Roger says, no when to hold him and no 96 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: when to fold him. There are times in cases when 97 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: you have to move, and there are times in investigations 98 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: where you have to lay back and wait. And Dana, 99 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: Dawn's sister, is saying that night she knew she had 100 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: to go to law enforcement. David Dawn's brother, do you 101 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: recall when you first learn your sister Dawn had disappeared? 102 00:06:55,560 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: So I do remember. So our mother pass away June 103 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: seventeenth that year when Dawn went missing, so July, August, 104 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: September seventeenth. She called me each of those days for 105 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: those months, and then it was October seventeenth, I didn't 106 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: hear from her. So I want to say, within the 107 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: next couple of days, I reached out and I was 108 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: getting no, no, no response at all. And that's right 109 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: around the time when Dana, you know, called me and 110 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: said you know and told me the story. But yeah, 111 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: she was calling me every month on the seventeenth of 112 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: my mom's death anniversary and you know, just just checking in. 113 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: And when she didn't check in, I knew something was happening. 114 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: You know. It's interesting. My sister and I are very 115 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: very close, but she lives all the way on the 116 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: other side of the country, and she is a brainy act. 117 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: She runs a department at a university, and she has 118 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: been taking care of her husband since I can remember 119 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: he went to heaven. I mean, her whole life has 120 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: been devotion, and it's really hard for us to find 121 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,119 Speaker 1: a time with a time difference to talk. But we're 122 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: in touch all the time, and the connection, the strong 123 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: connection of growing up together is still there. And if 124 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: I go X number of days without hearing from my sister, 125 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: I get very anxious, just like you're saying. When she 126 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: didn't call him the seventeenth, you noticed, hey Don didn't 127 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: call joining me now Derek, Don's other brother joining me 128 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: out of Burlington. Derek, do you remember when you realize 129 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: or when you were first told hey Don's missing to call? 130 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: What David said? It was basically the same thing we 131 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: talked after momus the way I had a son on 132 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: July seventeenth, and we talked every time, And it was 133 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: probably right around that same time, the first week of 134 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: October when we had chatted and she forgot what I 135 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: had named my son, and I named him Cooper Brink 136 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,839 Speaker 1: and my mother's maiden name was Brink. And then it 137 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: was you know, she just started crying to you that 138 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: I can't talk to you right now, and that was 139 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: the last time I talked to us, probably the first 140 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: week of October. You know what's interesting, Daryl Coleen, former 141 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: prosecutor now defense attorney, actually renowned defense attorney, Daryl. I 142 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: always find it very fishy when someone can't remember the 143 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: last time they spoke to someone that then goes missing, 144 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: because I remember, like it was yesterday, the last time 145 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: I saw my fiance before he was murdered. I remember 146 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: like it was yesterday. He had come to visit me 147 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 1: and at my parents' home in may Ken when I 148 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: was in college. He had to get up at like 149 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: four o'clock to drive to his construction job near Athens, 150 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: and I waved at the car as he drove away, 151 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 1: and he slung his left arm up and waved at 152 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: me as the car disappeared. I'll never forget that moment. 153 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: And you're hearing the Papen siblings, Dana, David, and Derek 154 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:27,719 Speaker 1: describing that moment. You know, Darrel, and I will come 155 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: on to a suspect that can't remember what happened. That's 156 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,559 Speaker 1: just a big giveaway to me, well, not to me now, 157 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: of course, to the siblings, to you that was an 158 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: impactful moment because of what happened directly afterwards. If my 159 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: friend goes off to work and it's the same thing 160 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: my friend does every day, or we leave the office 161 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: every day, then I don't necessarily remember because my short 162 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: term memory doesn't consider that important. But what is important 163 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: if you reach out and you don't reach that friend 164 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,079 Speaker 1: and suddenly that friend is gone, So then your short 165 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: term memory flips back, So it doesn't bother me that 166 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 1: someone wouldn't. Well, you've been in the defense business away 167 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: too long, Okay, you need to go take a vacation 168 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: and get back in touch with yourself. To Larry Altman 169 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: joining me, crime reporter, Daily Breeze at the time now 170 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: freelance a journalists. He knows the case backwards and forwards, 171 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: you know, Larry, right there when we hear the friends state, 172 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: she gets a text and Dawn signs at Pixie, which 173 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: was a nickname given to her by her husband, and 174 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: a lot of people called her Pixie. Why didn't they 175 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: try it? Why didn't costs triangulate it right then and there? 176 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know, they didn't seem to be 177 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:59,599 Speaker 1: too concerned at the beginning. I mean that text was 178 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: miss spelled. The text from Dawn's friend made no mention. 179 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: The text two Dahnston made no mention of the fact 180 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: that the friend had just been diagnosed with cancer. I 181 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: don't think at the beginning anyone really took this seriously. 182 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 1: You know, I think you're right and another thing ended 183 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: police defense to Chris Buyer's former police chief, John's Creek. 184 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: I don't know that at that time when Dawn first 185 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: went missing, that the technology was readily available to triangulate 186 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: down to like a couple of blocks, was it. No, 187 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: probably not. Back when this first started. I remember having 188 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: a murder chase when I was in Clayton, Kennedy Police 189 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: Department when cell phones were first just getting big, and 190 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: the first time I ever triangulated one, you know, we 191 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: got it to within like a five mile radius. We 192 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: knew it was in somewhere in Cobb County, Georgia. But yeah, 193 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: the technology is definitely changed as it's evolved. But yes, 194 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: back when it first came out, it was not extremely specific. 195 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:07,319 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, that's that's I'm smiling because I bet 196 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: at the time you were like, whoa, we can we 197 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: can identify a five mile radius of where the cell 198 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: phone was and now we would just laugh at that now. 199 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: But then, and I can remember the first time I 200 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: did a DNA case, and in my youth, and you know, 201 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: nobody knew what we were doing. I insisted the scientists, 202 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: you're gonna love this, Chief Buyers, I insisted, and you too, 203 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, Let's lot this. I insisted. The scientists from 204 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: the GBI crime Lab bring all of the microscopic photos 205 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: of the DNA comparison. I'm like, yes, we're gonna show 206 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:47,959 Speaker 1: it all to the jury so they can understand what 207 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: deoxyribony clay acid really is. Well, when they pull them up, 208 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: they look like to me at a distance, as I 209 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: was doing direct I said, and please show the jury 210 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: your slides. They had long rules of film. It looked 211 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: like film that really hadn't developed correctly. It was just 212 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 1: like a bunch of blobs in black and white. I'm like, okay, 213 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: you can put that down right now. Because that I 214 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: knew the jury would think, just like me, how the 215 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: hey can you look at that? I figure anything out 216 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,439 Speaker 1: for Pete's sake, get rid of that. And of course, 217 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: luckily for me, the defense was also equally annoledgeable about DNAs, 218 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: So they didn't say, hey, hey, hey, ho hold on, 219 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: bring that back out. Let's just see how crazy this 220 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: whole DNA thing is. So luckily I got out of 221 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: that through the skin of my teeth. But new technology 222 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: presents issues. If that technology, which is really only advancing 223 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, wouldn't you agree? And the last couple of 224 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: years we've really advanced triangulation technology. I mean it was 225 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: around but as chief buyer said, a five mile radius. 226 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: That really didn't help me too much. No, it doesn't 227 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: pinpoint anything necessarily, Nancy back then, of course, it gave 228 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: us kind of just owd stroke that we could look 229 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: at and it was better than what we had at 230 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: that point in tom And it's just like DNA technology, 231 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: you know. And this is this is the key here though, 232 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: it's how this technology is actually applied even to this day. 233 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: You're referring to the DNA slides. It is like watching 234 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: paint dry. I think back to, you know, the testimony 235 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: that was offered even in the O. J. Simpson case. 236 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: He put those people to sleep, and yeah, all the 237 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: bells and whistles are really anything that kept me awake 238 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: during that was looking at Simpson and Cochrane and Cordons. 239 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: It was just like gritting my teeth. I remember that 240 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: you are so right, Joe Scott Morgan, Hey Jackie. So 241 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: we get down to police work what we just heard 242 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: from the friend Monica and about that text we're talking about. Finally, 243 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: a friend named Monica comes to police with the real clue. 244 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: What can we do here? My husband and I have 245 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: been friends with Tevid and Don sincey got here. We're 246 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: regulars at the restaurant. Anyway, I know that she's disappeared, 247 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: but I actually just got a test from her. What 248 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: does it say? It says, I'm okay, I'm in Florida, 249 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: I'm starting over. Pixie. Can I see Pixie? Which is 250 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: the nickname that David gave Dawn. That text message and 251 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: of itself would explain where Don was and it should 252 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: relieve the worry from her friends. But now take a 253 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: listen to our friends. Investigators speaking to other of Dawn's 254 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: co workers and acquaintances. Listening as the investigation continues, cops 255 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: talk to Don's friends, or she unhappy lately or depressed 256 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: more exhausted. It's a tough business. Did she ever mentioned 257 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: like want to leave or leaving all the time, so 258 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: you feel it's unusual disappealing. Yeah, unusual but understandable. Where 259 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: do you think she might be? I'm hoping a ski lodger. 260 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: The boy zoy friends basically back up what David says. 261 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: They're really sure that she took off on her own, 262 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: that she's somewhere with a margarita on hand and enjoying herself, 263 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 1: and she'll come back when she's ready. If Dawn really 264 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: has taken a trip somewhere, then police should be able 265 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: to track her. They run her credit card, see there's 266 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 1: any credit card history. Investigators also check US customs to 267 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: see if maybe Don had taken a flight out of town. 268 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 1: There was no sign of Don anymore. Wow, okay, right there. 269 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: That was good police for Larry Altman. Larry on the 270 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: case from the very beginning, checking to see if she 271 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: had taken a fly a, checking to see if she 272 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 1: had gone down to one of the islands, checking her banking, 273 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: her credit card history. But so far nothing. So the 274 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: cops are on the right track. Wouldn't you agree, Larry? 275 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: You know I don't agree. Actually, I would check in 276 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,199 Speaker 1: regularly with the police and they would just tell me 277 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: there was no signs of foul play, and her name 278 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: was in the system, and you know, they were waiting 279 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: for her to just turn up somewhere. But I never 280 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 1: really got the impression early on that they were really 281 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 1: digging into it. I think that came later on. I 282 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: just never felt at the beginning that they were they 283 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 1: were really all that active. Yeah, that's a really interesting point, 284 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: Jess got Morgan. I agree and disagree with Larry. I 285 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: disagree in the sense that they're looking at her credit cards, 286 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: they're looking at banking activity, they're looking to see if 287 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: she left the jurisdiction, or is any of her potential 288 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: old haunts. So they're looking. They're speaking to friends, they're 289 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: speaking to the husband, they're speaking to co workers, and 290 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,400 Speaker 1: that's what they should be doing. So I disagree with 291 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: Larry Altman on that, but I agree with him that 292 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: I don't know how seriously they were taking it. Yeah, 293 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: I don't know either, Nancy. And you know, when you're 294 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: talking about adults that just kind of vanish off to 295 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 1: face the earth, the standard line that you will get 296 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: from police is, well, they're an adult, they have you know, 297 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: they can do whatever they want to do. Listen, even 298 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: at the medical Examiner's office. Nancy. We used to get 299 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: calls from people that would say, I'm missing my husband 300 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: or I'm missing my wife. I'm just calling the morgue 301 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: to check it there there, And you know, you get 302 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 1: so many of those calls after a period of time, 303 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 1: it kind of wears you down. And you're working on 304 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: other cases at that moment in time, stuff that you 305 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: have solid information on. So it's a very confusing position 306 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: to put investigators in. You want to go to doctor 307 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:50,640 Speaker 1: Debbie Joffe Ellis, but first to the Pappen siblings, Derek, 308 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: David and Dana here too. You Dana, did it sound 309 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: like something done? Would dude just go off to one 310 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: of the eye lions and sit back and have a margharita? No? 311 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:05,679 Speaker 1: Absolutely not. Why do you say that, because regardless of 312 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: anything that they were attached together, they did everything together. 313 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: She had never done it before. It didn't make any 314 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: sense at all. And if she was going to run away, 315 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: she was going to run away with him, you know, 316 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: it didn't make that. You know, that's an interesting point. 317 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: And you're talking about the husband, David, what about you? 318 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: David pappend was Dawn the quote free spirited one in 319 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: the family, the one that would just leave and go 320 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,679 Speaker 1: on a vacation without telling anybody and get it out 321 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: of her system and come back home. Or she the 322 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 1: responsible one I mean growing up? What was her character Don? 323 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: Growing up? I would say that Don was a free spirit. 324 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 1: I would say that. But once she met David, like 325 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: Dana said, they were made. There wasn't one without the other. 326 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: And very many circumstances, Um, yeah, he had. They were 327 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,239 Speaker 1: they were together at the time, and it sounds like 328 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: they were really dedicated to making this restaurant work and 329 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: Derek Papp and the restaurant was working. It was very popular. Yeah, 330 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 1: and it absolutely was the uh they were. The teamwork 331 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:32,199 Speaker 1: that they had together was outstanding and absolutely it was 332 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: a great couple. And like David said, they were always together. 333 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: He would do the bad times, do the good times 334 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: you anytime. They always seemed to work things out. Um, 335 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: if there were bad times and the good times. Don 336 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: would never go to an island unless he was with 337 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: her too. Doctor Debbi Joffey Ellis Psychologist, Agent Professor, Columbia University, 338 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: Doctor Debbie And also, for instance, I might get really 339 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: mad at my husband about one thing or the other, 340 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: and maybe there was a time I would have driven 341 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: off and a half, But now I have the children, 342 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: and there's no way in HWL and you can all 343 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: write this down that I would ever, ever, ever leave 344 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: them or do anything to jeopardize being with them. I 345 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 1: believe that is the way Dawn and David felt about 346 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: that restaurant that was their baby. Well, that's likely, but 347 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: we can't know one hundred percent for sure unless we're 348 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: in their heads. And Nancy, you have a moral compass, 349 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: You're a dedicated mother with a good brain. We don't 350 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: know how they And now, in no way my criticizing 351 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: Dawn or questioning her sanity, I'm not, But just make 352 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: a couple of general statements, if I may. Now, when 353 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: a person is doing something that's life enhancing, such as 354 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: regularly checking in with a sister, with loved ones, with friends, 355 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 1: and that stops, that's what I think should raise alarm bells. 356 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: On the other hand, people can change, People can act 357 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: in uncharacteristic ways. So the fact that Dawn stopped her 358 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: regular phone calls to me is more alarming than a 359 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: possibility of her choosing one day, as a previously free spirit, 360 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: to do something dramatically different, interesting, interesting, and you know 361 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: Chris Buyers, former police chief of John's Creek. I always 362 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 1: I agree with Larry Altman on this at this point. 363 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 1: So many times I see it with teen quote runaways. No, 364 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: they've either been kidnapped their dad, or they've been sex traffic. 365 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: That's what's happening when teens and women go missing. With teens, 366 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: they say, oh, that's a runaway, they'll come back. With women, 367 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 1: they go, oh, you know what, she's just gone off 368 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 1: with a boyfriend. She's just quote taking break. Why do 369 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,479 Speaker 1: cops always say that what the hate is wrong? Yeah? 370 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: I think it's just, you know, there's that mindset of 371 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: going into things and trying to make less of it 372 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,439 Speaker 1: than it actually could be, which is one of the 373 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: things when I was a supervisor over investigators, I was 374 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: always very hard on we look to the worst possible 375 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: case scenario and then we work our way back. And 376 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 1: that's what you have to do in these cases so 377 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: that you don't miss you know, we've talked in the 378 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: past about those precious early moments where there's evidence out 379 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 1: there that can be lost. So you really have to 380 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: come into these situations and look at the worst case 381 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: scenario and then work your way back to it's just 382 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: a runaway. She's run off with a boyfriend or something. 383 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,959 Speaker 1: But yes, you're exactly right. All too often that happens 384 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: in the mind of investigators early on on these cases. 385 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Dave Matt crime online 386 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,439 Speaker 1: dot Com. The investigation into Don Viene's disappearance began weeks 387 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: after she was last seen. Her sister, Dana Pappen, and 388 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: friends went to the police on the number eighteenth, two 389 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: thousand and nine to report her missing. Police talk to 390 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:08,160 Speaker 1: Don's husband, David Vienn's. He tells detectives that on October eighteenth, 391 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: he argued with his wife about her excessive drinking. He 392 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 1: said that earlier in the day they'd gone to eat 393 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 1: at California Pizza Kitchen, and that he dropped her off 394 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: at home and returned to work. When he got home 395 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: from work that night, Vienns tells police that Don wasn't home, 396 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: says he takes an ambient goes to bed. He also 397 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: says Don wasn't home the next day, and Viens tells 398 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,199 Speaker 1: police that he texted and called her a number of times. 399 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 1: Police ask why he didn't contact police. Vienne says that 400 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,640 Speaker 1: maybe a week or two after he got a text 401 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: message from her saying she was okay and then she 402 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: was with a friend. Vienn says that he talked to 403 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 1: Don on the phone and that she came home on 404 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 1: October twenty fifth, begging him to leave Lomita and run 405 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: away to the mountains. David Vienn's claims that he told 406 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: her to check in a rehab and the next day 407 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 1: she was gone. The investigation into Don Vienne's disappearance began 408 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: we excepter she was last seen. Her sister, Dana Pappen, 409 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 1: and friends went to the police on November eighteenth, two 410 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: thousand and nine, to report her missing. Police talked to 411 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: Don's husband, David Vienns. He tells detectives that on October eighteenth, 412 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: he argued with his wife about her excessive drinking. He 413 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: said that earlier in the day they'd gone to eat 414 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: at California Pizza Kitchen, and that he dropped her off 415 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: at home and returned to work. When he got home 416 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: from work that night, Vienns tells police that Don wasn't home, 417 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: says he takes an ambient goes to bed. He also 418 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 1: says Don wasn't home the next day and Viens tells 419 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,880 Speaker 1: police that he texted and called her a number of times. 420 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: Police ask why he didn't contact police. Vienne says that 421 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: maybe a week or two after he got a text 422 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: message from her saying she was okay, and then she 423 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 1: was with a friend. Vienn says that he talked to 424 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: Don on the phone and that she came home on 425 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: October twenty fifth, begging him to leave Lomita and run 426 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: away to the mountains. David Vienn's claims that he told 427 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 1: her to check in a rehab and the next day 428 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,199 Speaker 1: she was gone, Wow too, Dana. David and Derek Pappen 429 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: question to you, Dana, do you believe cops did not 430 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: take it seriously? No, I believe they took it seriously. 431 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 1: But when I when you don't know a person, you 432 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: don't know their habits, you can only go on the 433 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: evidence you're given, and coming from her husband, the person 434 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: not supposed to know her best, and he's saying, well, 435 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: I just talked to her and she's mad and we 436 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: had a fight, and then, you know, I don't blame 437 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:35,360 Speaker 1: them for for not taking it more seriously because they 438 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: didn't have any evidence to prove that anything was wrong. 439 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: What about a data happened. I don't. I don't think 440 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 1: they did anything wrong. And around that time I actually 441 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: called him. I actually called David and I had an 442 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 1: hour long conversation and he assured me you kept calling 443 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: me or other you know, I would never I would 444 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 1: never do anything. You know, she just left, you know, 445 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,199 Speaker 1: you know, you know me better than anyone, you know, 446 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 1: Dada da da da. And without any evidence, like Dana said, 447 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: there was really no no reason to think something something 448 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: had happened. She just laughed, which I told her to 449 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 1: do a hundred times. Oh really, Derek Pappen, did do 450 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,959 Speaker 1: you believe the cops were taking it seriously that she 451 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 1: had disappeared? Did you buy into she just took off? No, 452 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 1: I definitely didn't buy into this. She just just took 453 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: off and all that stuff. And and I think, you know, 454 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: like Larry said, I think it. You know that they didn't. 455 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: I think it was a big deal at first, and 456 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: stuff like that, and then you know that's yeah, I 457 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: thought there was something wrong from the start, just like 458 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: Dana said. You know, to you, Larry Altman, you're the 459 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: only one. Although Dana goes to the cops and says 460 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: she's missing, something's wrong, you're the one that says they're 461 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: not taking this seriously enough. Why did you feel that? 462 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: I just felt at the time that they took a 463 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: report and put Don's name in the system, and we're 464 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: just waiting to see what happened. I mean, there were 465 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: some key things that we all knew, you know, from 466 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: the start. We knew that that Don's car was still 467 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: in the driveway. So if if she had just taken off, 468 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: like David said, why wouldn't she David car? This is 469 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: southern California. You can't you do anything without driving. And 470 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: she also left behind a sizeable amount of money that 471 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: she had been saving. If she had just left on 472 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: her own, why wouldn't she have gone and collected that money? 473 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: It was about six hundred forty dollars. Well, now that 474 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: you're telling me that you've completely turned me around, these 475 00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: are facts that are very very critical. She left behind 476 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: her car, I mean, for Pete's sake, when is you 477 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: gonna hit ship when she's got a car? And also 478 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: the nature of the money. She had asked a friend 479 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: to hold the money in case of an emergency. Why 480 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: not put it to the bank. Why did she feel 481 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: she had to? I mean I'm not gonna go hide 482 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: a little bit of money. I've gotten a glass jar 483 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: in the backyard for Pete's sake, and now I don't 484 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: want to knock that. My great grandmother did it and 485 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,719 Speaker 1: ended up paying off a farm my you know, fifty 486 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 1: jars buried in the backyardful of nothing but nickels and 487 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: dollars in cash. So it does happen. But why did 488 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: she feel she needed any emergency plan? Why did she 489 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: disappear without her car? Guys, take a listen to this. 490 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: We had to look at all the facts. We looked 491 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: into Florida. We learned that she'd had a family members. 492 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: Her father was in Florida a substantial time of the year. 493 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: Nobody had heard anything from Donna. If they know where 494 00:30:55,040 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: don is, they're not saying anything. Months begin to pass 495 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: and with no sign of Dawn, cops start to fear 496 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: the worst. It became apparent to us that this was 497 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: just more than a missing person. Now that months have passed, 498 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: everyone is getting more serious about Dawn's disappearance. Why did 499 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: it take months? Why are police now sitting on their thumbs? 500 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: Take a listener our friend Richard's lessenger. Some friends alerted 501 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: Dawn's sister, who filed a missing person's report that caught 502 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: the eye of Larry Altman. His first story about Dawn's 503 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: disappearance ran on Christmas Eve two thousand and nine, two 504 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: months after Dawn vanished, and it got an immediate response. 505 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: I received a phone call from one of Don's friends 506 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: who had seen that story. She said, Hey, I read 507 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 1: your story. There's more to this than you know. Wow. Well, 508 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: the first article was just a basic missing person's story, 509 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: but what I initially had heard about Don's disappearance. I 510 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,239 Speaker 1: placed to call to David to ask questions, you know, 511 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: what's what's going on with this? And I never got 512 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: a response, and a lot of time passed, and you know, 513 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: after several weeks, I thought, oh, I've never heard from him. 514 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: Why would he not call me back? And so I 515 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: tried again, and I got a return phone call, this 516 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: time from an attorney. And this attorney said, he's not 517 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: going to talk to you, he's not going to do 518 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: any interviews, but he is cooperating with the police. And 519 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: I said, what are you talking about. He's cooperating with 520 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: the police, and I'm I'm why wouldn't he be cooperating 521 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: with the police, And I'm sure Nanswy you know that 522 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: is a phrase that is is used when there's some 523 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: sort of suspicion. You know what, You're absolutely right, Larry 524 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: Alman on the case in the very beginning. And then 525 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: after you right or article, somebody else hears about it, 526 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 1: and the case blows up. Listen, how did all this start? 527 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 1: And why now this case late dormant until we reported 528 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: on it, and then suddenly cops a point a brand 529 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 1: new investigative team and start reinvestigating the case. And now 530 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: suddenly they've dug out the bottom of the husband's restaurant. Right, 531 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: Nancy Well on October eighteenth, two thousand and nine, is 532 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: the last time anybody saw don Vin's. Her husband said 533 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: that he actually fired her. They gotten an argument. Whoa, yeah, 534 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: the husband fires his wife from the family restaurant. Okay, 535 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: go ahead, right right. Her friends claimed that he fired 536 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: her that day. He says she just walked away, took 537 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: a Louis Vatton bag with her. That was the last 538 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: time he saw her. Wow, So all this the case 539 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: blows up after Larry Altman publishes that first article. You 540 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: know what that I recall the first time I learned 541 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: Larry Altman that he says he the husband says he 542 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: fired her. How do you fire your wife? Well, exactly. 543 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: And what else was interesting was that Don was replaced 544 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: in the restaurant straight out to Dana, David and Derek Pappen. Dana, 545 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,800 Speaker 1: did you know the husband had quote fired at Dawn? No? 546 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 1: I didn't. That's a surprise. Good luck David if you 547 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,399 Speaker 1: try to fire me. David Pappen, did you know that 548 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: Dawn had been basically been quote fired from her own restaurant? 549 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 1: How do you do that? Oh? I did not know that, 550 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: But funny enough. In two thousand and four, I was 551 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: working for David and Don, and my dad's sister passed away. 552 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: So Don and I were in Florida and she said 553 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: one of us needs to go. I'll go, and I said, okay, 554 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:56,359 Speaker 1: I'll stay in man the restaurant. Well, David stepped in 555 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 1: and told Don she was not allowed to go. So 556 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: I jumped in my car and I started towards the 557 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: airport because I was gonna go. Don was going to 558 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: cover the restaurant. I got about halfway to the Tampa airport, 559 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: David called me and said, don't bother coming back. You 560 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,439 Speaker 1: don't have a job, you're not loyal, blah blah blah. 561 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: And he fired me on the spot and I was 562 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: driving or I was going to Vermont to bury my 563 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,280 Speaker 1: dad's sister. So I do believe he fired her because 564 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: he did it to me. So he does have a history. 565 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: I'm firing people, but I mean, I'm telling you. I mean, 566 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: you know, guys, how much I love David. But if 567 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,399 Speaker 1: he tried to order me around or fire me from 568 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,399 Speaker 1: whatever I'm doing, he would, you know, you put put 569 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: out an arm and pull back a nub. That's what 570 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: I've got to say to that. Derrek, did you have 571 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: any idea that your brother in law fired don't. I mean, 572 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 1: it's her restaurant too. How can you fire somebody, I'd say, oh, 573 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: hub l, no, I'm firing you. Take the pat turner, 574 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 1: pat in the street and turn a corner. Absolutely. Na. Yeah, 575 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 1: I know. It's it's weird to hear that and all that, 576 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:14,359 Speaker 1: especially since she was a primary owner. She couldn't give 577 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: the licenses and stuff without hers to fire her, it 578 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,880 Speaker 1: would just be silly, guys, take a listen to a 579 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:26,760 Speaker 1: little bit more. I followed the trail that Larry Oltman 580 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 1: sniffed out first, take a listen, Debra. The recent information 581 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,760 Speaker 1: that we got over this past weekend is that after 582 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,799 Speaker 1: our show Friday Night, cops have now gone out and 583 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 1: started re interviewing people, interviewing friends. We also learned about 584 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 1: the possessions being thrown in a dumpster, the jeep being 585 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 1: towed away almost immediately after she goes missing. About a 586 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,399 Speaker 1: week and a half later, Nancy, after she disappeared, a 587 00:36:55,440 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 1: friend of hers saw her husband's daughter and his new 588 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: girlfriend taking her stuff. They were in a car. They 589 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: drove to the restaurant, took stuff out of the car, 590 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: and started throwing things into the dumpster allegedly. You know, 591 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: there was a few things they decided to keep, but 592 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 1: most of the things were just thrown away. Okay, so 593 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:19,279 Speaker 1: you're telling me that they basically went shopping and the 594 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: missing woman's closet. They kept some of her belongings for themselves. 595 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 1: I have no idea if it was for themselves, but 596 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 1: they certainly did keep some things. I think I recognize 597 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: that voice. That's me talking to Deborah Mark Larry Altman. 598 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:44,359 Speaker 1: You're right, killers amongst us. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,