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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and a new CNN Paul says sixty

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Speaker 1: percent of Americans believe there's been too little focused on

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Speaker 1: domestic matters. We have such a great show for you today.

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Speaker 1: Think like an economist, Justin Wolfer's talks consumer sentiment hitting

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Speaker 1: the lowest it's ever been. Then we'll talk to author

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Speaker 1: Bradley Onishi about Pete Hegseth and the particular religious influences

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Speaker 1: in his life. But first the news.

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Speaker 2: Smalley, I saw a lot of people being very mad

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Speaker 2: about this headline that says Democrats shut down talk of

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Speaker 2: impeaching Trump this year, and I felt like we should

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Speaker 2: kind of explain to the listeners what's happening here.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so okay, American voters Democrat, Republican, but Centrists are

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Speaker 1: very mad. They are mad at a number of things.

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Speaker 1: I think the thing they're probably the maddest about is

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Speaker 1: the war, but followed by inflation, the economy, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. They are very mad. Now why are they

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Speaker 1: so mad? Because things are not going the way they wanted?

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Speaker 1: They voted for a change candidate they got, you know,

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Speaker 1: a change that wasn't the change they wanted. It was worse.

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Speaker 1: Democrats have to do this thing now where they have

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Speaker 1: to be the normal party but also protect norms and

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Speaker 1: institutions and also win at the midterms. A lot of

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Speaker 1: people want Democrats to impeach Trump. Now, impeachment is a

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Speaker 1: math problem, right. You need enough people to vote for

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Speaker 1: the impeachment to start, and then you need a trial

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Speaker 1: that will take place in the Senate. And first you'll

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Speaker 1: have hearings and then you'll have a trial take place

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Speaker 1: in the Senate, and then you need sixty senators to remove. Now,

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Speaker 1: even at Donald Trump's very worst, you couldn't get sixty

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Speaker 1: not your very worst, but even at the impeachment after

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Speaker 1: January sixth, the impeachment where Donald Trump had his guys

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Speaker 1: to the capital, even then you could not get sixty

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Speaker 1: votes to remove or to make it so we couldn't

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Speaker 1: run again. Had Republicans done that, we would not be

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Speaker 1: in this fucking disaster women right now. The point is

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Speaker 1: Democrats do not have the votes right now to impeach Trump.

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Speaker 1: It will fail. Do we see we saw? I think

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Speaker 1: it was eighty said that he should be impeached. They

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Speaker 1: are on the record saying it. And when Democrats win

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Speaker 1: power back in the midterms, they will absolutely impeach Trump.

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Speaker 1: They cannot do it before that. And that's just the

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Speaker 1: mechanics of how the House and the Senate work and

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Speaker 1: impeachment works. So just aren't the numbers. So it's annoying.

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Speaker 1: I constantly criticize, and I'm happy to criticize leadership when

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Speaker 1: it feels like they are not meeting the moment, but

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Speaker 1: in this case, there's just no mechanism for it at

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Speaker 1: this moment. Now, if Democrats win broadly in the midterms,

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Speaker 1: and they win the House and they win the Senate,

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Speaker 1: you know there will be a number where Trump's approval

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Speaker 1: rating will get so bad that even Republicans start breaking

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Speaker 1: with him. And you see that just with.

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Speaker 3: The maga world, right, Like, the reason that Megan Kelly

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Speaker 3: is breaking with Trump is not because she believes different

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Speaker 3: things now, it's because her people are saying, this guy's nuts.

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Speaker 2: This is most apparent in Tim Poole's explanation of his

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Speaker 2: break with Trump yesterday. We basically said, wow, my followers

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Speaker 2: are buying my coffee anymore. So I guess I'll break

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Speaker 2: with Trump.

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Speaker 1: Right exactly. No, but that's exactly and that's why you're

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Speaker 1: seeing all these guys. Did he really say that?

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Speaker 2: He basically was saying it with a sarcastic tone because

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Speaker 2: that's what he does for engagement. But it was also

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Speaker 2: one of those things that on his show today, he's

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Speaker 2: like warming up the audience so that he's going to

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Speaker 2: break up with mister Trump.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. That's why I think that, Like, no one is

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Speaker 1: operating out of good faith here, like thinking that MAGA

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Speaker 1: has changed their mind because it's a bridge too far. No,

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Speaker 1: they've changed their mind because they have a business model

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Speaker 1: which has to flecked the views of their listeners, and

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Speaker 1: when their listeners are like fuck this, they're like, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe we shouldn't support this anymore. So I don't want

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Speaker 1: people to think this is some kind of like moral reckoning,

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Speaker 1: because it's not.

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Speaker 2: No, coffee sales are down and now we have to

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Speaker 2: change the grift.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and coffee has even gotten more expensive.

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Speaker 2: Well that's a whole nuanced conversation right there. Okay, but

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Speaker 2: we have other fish to fry. Speaking of giant crypts,

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Speaker 2: Palenteer one of the most evil companies our country has

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Speaker 2: ever seen. Trump has manipulated their stock market for their

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Speaker 2: stock game.

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Speaker 1: Look, man, Donald Trump, he's a full service president, full

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Speaker 1: service president. He will do all sorts of fake stuff

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Speaker 1: with you, and he will also you know, you make

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Speaker 1: a donation to him, and he will manipulate the market

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Speaker 1: for you, which is like more than Democrats can say. Look,

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Speaker 1: here is the deal. This stuff is really unpopular, like

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Speaker 1: full on, full scale corruption not super popular. Today there

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Speaker 1: was a piece in the New York Times about how

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Speaker 1: the White House is trying to get the lower downs

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Speaker 1: to stop insider trading on war stuff, which is like

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Speaker 1: such a great you know, like, first of all, your

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Speaker 1: somebody leaked to that story to the New York Times,

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Speaker 1: which is amazing, right, And clearly those polymarket bets where

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Speaker 1: they're like, you know, the calshy bets where they're like,

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Speaker 1: you know, the America is going to go to war

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Speaker 1: twenty minutes before they do. Like, clearly someone is getting

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Speaker 1: inside information and profiting off of it. And that news

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Speaker 1: came out today at the same time, their boss, Donald J. Trump,

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Speaker 1: perhaps you've heard of him, was doing very much the

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Speaker 1: same kind of calculus so but at a much larger scale. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So Look, they're kryptograts all the way down. And you

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Speaker 1: know this is the thing once you and this is why,

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Speaker 1: like there's so many ethics laws. It seemed during like

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Speaker 1: normal democratic administrations to be like completely stupid, like for example,

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Speaker 1: the Hatch Act, right, like you can't run for office.

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Speaker 1: You know, the campaign arm has to be different than

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Speaker 1: the governing arm. Well, the reason you have all of

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Speaker 1: these things is so that you don't go down with

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Speaker 1: the ship where everybody's trading on inside information. So this

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Speaker 1: is what happens, and you know, it's totally corrupt. It

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Speaker 1: should absolutely be illegal, and it's also you know, and

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Speaker 1: it's stock manipulation, and a normal person would go to

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Speaker 1: jail for this.

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Speaker 4: Agreed.

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Speaker 2: So every once in a while we get one of

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Speaker 2: those headlines that we could have written the moment we

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Speaker 2: learned Trump was elected again. This one, RFK Junior, CDC

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Speaker 2: delays report proving the COVID vaccine worked sounds like one

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Speaker 2: of those headlines.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, look, this is so incredibly transparent. I'm

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Speaker 1: a little disappointed we don't have the thing. RFK Junior

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Speaker 1: also doing a podcast.

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Speaker 4: The Voice Everyone has wanted to have in their ears

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Speaker 4: for two hours of.

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Speaker 1: Time the voice you want to go to sleep too,

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Speaker 1: that guy. I mean, look, I don't have the best

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Speaker 1: voice either, So I don't Bollie.

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Speaker 4: Let's not put you in the league of RFK.

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Speaker 1: Come on, it's distinctly Kennedy like at least. But yes,

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Speaker 1: this is one of these things where like, so RFK

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Speaker 1: doesn't want the information that the COVID vaccine worked coming out.

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Speaker 1: And this is like such a dumb You know, it's

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Speaker 1: dumb because right now COVID is not killing you know,

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Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of Americans. But the point is that

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Speaker 1: the people who believe the COVID vaccine misinformation also believe

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Speaker 1: all these other bits of misinformation. Like, you know, if

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Speaker 1: you're a COVID truther, you're also like less likely to

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Speaker 1: get the measles vaccine, less likely to get the MMMRI vaccine.

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Speaker 1: You're less likely to get the shingles vaccine, which prevents dementia.

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Speaker 1: You're less likely, like you are less likely to go

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Speaker 1: to the doctor, You're less likely to get tested for things.

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Speaker 1: You're less likely to get a mammogram. So we are

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Speaker 1: already this country where like a lot of people die

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Speaker 1: for no reason, and we have now our federal government

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Speaker 1: is basically involved in a kind of lying about public

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Speaker 1: health and science at a scale that we haven't had

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Speaker 1: since people were just sort of wrong about things. So

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Speaker 1: it's not that it's dangerous or that it's stupid, though

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Speaker 1: it is both those things. It's also just like it's

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Speaker 1: so pervasive and it's so undermined so much of the

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, it gets us to this whole

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Speaker 1: world of like post truths, right where what is true

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Speaker 1: what is not true? Like you know, you know that

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Speaker 1: this COVID vaccine saves lives, but because you refuse to

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Speaker 1: release the data, other people don't know it, and so

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Speaker 1: maybe it's not maybe it doesn't, And that is really dark,

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Speaker 1: and it's in the service of anti vacs and anti

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Speaker 1: autism because they believe that somehow this is connected to autism,

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Speaker 1: which has been scientifically disproven endless every which way to Sunday.

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Speaker 1: The other thing is that like RFK Junior has such

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Speaker 1: a financial incentive in spreading lies and misinformation about vaccines

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Speaker 1: because of all of his public health defense organizations and

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Speaker 1: then all of the lies people also sell supplements, so

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Speaker 1: it's like they are making money on both sides online

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Speaker 1: to you about health.

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Speaker 2: So yesterday there was very very shocking news as Milania

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Speaker 2: Trump did a press conference that no one was expecting,

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Speaker 2: where she did the doll Clinton version of it. But

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Speaker 2: for the first Lady of I did not have sexual

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Speaker 2: relations with that woman, but this time it was about

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Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein. Then what we've seen since then is the

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Speaker 2: Daily Beast on Earth, a year and a half old

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Speaker 2: tape that they've had where Jeffrey Epstein says that he

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Speaker 2: introduced Malania and Trump and that they slipt together. There

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Speaker 2: is a wine in the Epstein files that say that,

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Speaker 2: And now it looks there's a whistle blower that Julie

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Speaker 2: Kay Brown is discussing that is about to come forward

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Speaker 2: about Malania's involvement with Epstein.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I don't know what the deal here is.

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Speaker 1: I've talked to people on Oversight and they're going to

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Speaker 1: try to get more information from this because they should,

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Speaker 1: because they must, because she opened the door to it again,

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Speaker 1: which was amazing. But I am very curious to know

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Speaker 1: what Julie K.

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Speaker 2: Brown yep So, she has a newsletter up that says

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Speaker 2: could a former Brazilian model be the whistleblower?

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Speaker 4: Mlania is afraid of this.

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Speaker 1: Is Pedro Zapoli's ex.

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Speaker 4: A strange girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, who has Finn deported and the son is here. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So there are a bunch of different theories going around

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Speaker 1: on this enemy of the pod. Michael Wolfe, I think

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Speaker 1: that's fair. It's maybe too generous. Who said that I

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Speaker 1: look like Trump. That guy has written a book about

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Speaker 1: Andrew and he believes and is promoting pretty heavily that

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Speaker 1: Milania is in fact doing this to get ahead of

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Speaker 1: the Andrew book. Julie K. Brown has this theory about

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Speaker 1: the estranged wife or baby mother of this guy Zipoli,

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Speaker 1: who works in the White House and who was a

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Speaker 1: very close friend of Milania and Trump's. There are a

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Speaker 1: number of other theories floating around. I think Katie Rogers,

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Speaker 1: who writes for the New York Times, had a really interesting

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Speaker 1: thing that she said about Milania, which is that Milania

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Speaker 1: reads a lot of her press and gets very involved

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Speaker 1: in trying to fight back against it, which all of

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Speaker 1: us know is not I mean, Milania is beyond the pale,

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Speaker 1: but even for normal people, it's not a good thing

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Speaker 1: to do. But if that is true, then it's possible

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Speaker 1: she just stumbled on something and got upset about it.

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Speaker 1: The thing that is worth thinking about is that the

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Speaker 1: White House has said they did not know she was

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Speaker 1: coming forward and that they had no window into it.

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Speaker 1: I am, I have to say, so impressed with that

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Speaker 1: marriage and it's complete inability to have anything to have

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Speaker 1: both parties have nothing to do with each other. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of respect for the ability of

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Speaker 1: them to just like be totally completely as far as

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Speaker 1: I can tell, not having any kind of communication. Which

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Speaker 1: also people noted from the movie where they seem to

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Speaker 1: completely have no idea who the other one is.

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Speaker 4: Can't believe anyone watched that.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I should say that I have heard tape

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Speaker 2: of Epstein saying this ends. It is definitely a thing

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Speaker 2: that Jeffrey Epstein has said that he introduced them.

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Speaker 4: He says it on tape.

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Speaker 1: To Michael Wolff. Yes, and you have heard that tape.

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Speaker 4: I heard that tape.

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Speaker 2: I used to work at a news organization that was

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Speaker 2: in possession of it. And it's also in the Epstein files.

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Speaker 2: There's widely being shared today a screenshot of the Epstein

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Speaker 2: files where somebody else had said that Epstein had said this,

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Speaker 2: So take what you will of that.

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Speaker 1: There are any number of possible machinations here. Justin Wolfers

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Speaker 1: is the host of the Think Like an Economist podcast

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Speaker 1: and a professor at the University of Michigan. Welcome, Welcome,

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Speaker 1: Justin Wolfers. Molly consumer sentiments again. The reason why consumer

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Speaker 1: sentiment is such an important thing is because so much

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Speaker 1: we're a service economy, so so much of our economy

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Speaker 1: don't smile at me in that patronizing way. While I

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Speaker 1: try to explain what is.

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Speaker 5: An unpatronizing smile, I don't even know how to.

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Speaker 1: Do that, Okay, so I will, Yeah, Eric, I want

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Speaker 1: you to talk out why these numbers, which are the

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Speaker 1: worst they've been since COVID and the credit crisis. Are

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Speaker 1: there a little worse than they were during COVID and

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Speaker 1: the credit crisis? Or are they're about the same.

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Speaker 5: I can simplify this for you, would you like me to?

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Speaker 6: Okay?

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Speaker 5: The University of Michigan, not me, but my colleagues has

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Speaker 5: been surveying consumer sentiments since nineteen fifty two.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's record low, sorry, Jesse, is.

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Speaker 5: The lowest it has ever been. It just came out

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Speaker 5: with the latest April numbers. So this has got a

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Speaker 5: lot of iran in it. We don't have many economic

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Speaker 5: numbers that have any influence of Iran, but it's the

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Speaker 5: lowest that has ever been Korea, Vietnam, global financial crisis,

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Speaker 5: global pandemic hrumph.

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Speaker 6: It's worse.

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Speaker 5: Why Yeah, no, good question. So one is the economic reality,

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Speaker 5: in terms of what we're seeing from the hard numbers

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Speaker 5: out there, is not that bad. We are not in

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Speaker 5: a recession now by the same tiken, we are actually

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Speaker 5: at war and that tends to worry me. So I

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Speaker 5: actually think there's two things going on. One is the

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Speaker 5: pit in the bottom of your stomach. I have a

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Speaker 5: feeling you have it, Molly, I do, my kids do,

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Speaker 5: and I believe your audience does that pit in the

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Speaker 5: bottom of your stomach that fear.

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Speaker 6: I don't know what's happening next. Where at war? And

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Speaker 6: I'm not quite sure why.

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Speaker 5: If you've got a president who one day can seek

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Speaker 5: to overthrow the capital, another day can start a global

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Speaker 5: trade war and a whim and another day invadeer Ran

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Speaker 5: without a plan, you start to worry about what it

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Speaker 5: is that next year holds. Just think about that pattern,

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Speaker 5: draw the extrapolate a little bit, and so everything feels

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Speaker 5: a little bit more on edge.

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Speaker 6: Right now.

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Speaker 5: So I think that's a very real thing. And so

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Speaker 5: that's a forward looking thing. So even if the economy

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Speaker 5: today is okay, that feeling in the pity of stomach

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Speaker 5: is not. The second is actually more about the rage

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Speaker 5: it's coloring your cheeks. Now, I'm just going to stick

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Speaker 5: with very physical metaphors today, but that rage coloring your

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Speaker 5: cheeks is a partisan feeling.

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Speaker 6: I want to give a little bit of background.

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Speaker 5: The reason consumer sentiment historically was such a useful indicator

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Speaker 5: was because when you ask people how the economy was doing,

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Speaker 5: they would think about how the economy was doing and

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Speaker 5: tell you the truth and answer. Over the last ten

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Speaker 5: decade ten years, sorry, as the American people have become

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Speaker 5: highly polarized, the rise of the bag of movement and

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Speaker 5: so on. Actually, what's happened is the extent to which

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Speaker 5: your report of your feelings about the economy are correlated

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Speaker 5: with your partisan team colors has risen dramatically, and so

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Speaker 5: basically Democrats hate it when Trump is empowered.

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Speaker 4: They like it.

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Speaker 5: When Biden's empowered, they hate it again. Now Republicans are

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Speaker 5: the exact reverse. And the thing I want you to

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Speaker 5: notice here is then it sounds like people are answering

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Speaker 5: the question do you like the guy in the White House,

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Speaker 5: rather than how do you feel about the economy?

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Speaker 1: Economy?

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Speaker 5: Right, in which case this might be a little less

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Speaker 5: informative about the economy, even very informative about political reality.

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Speaker 1: Right. So this could be. This could be like hyperpartisan

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Speaker 1: partisanism and not actual feelings about spending. Yeah, this could

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Speaker 1: also be And you tell me if you think this

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Speaker 1: is right about an anxiety that the president is a

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Speaker 1: lunatic that we have not had. Like you might not

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Speaker 1: love w you might not have clapped for Jeb, but

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Speaker 1: the sense that my man is a complete and unfettered

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Speaker 1: lunatic who had his own people attack the capital, and

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Speaker 1: who spent Easter tweeting about how he is gonna you know,

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Speaker 1: rain hell fire down that that that that guy does

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Speaker 1: not make you want to spend money.

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Speaker 5: That guy doesn't make me feel comfortable about the future.

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Speaker 5: And that makes me think about the less comfortable, the

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Speaker 5: less confident you feel about the future, the more you

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Speaker 5: got to sock a little bit away. And so there's

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Speaker 5: a word I've been using a lot more often, Malley,

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Speaker 5: which is competence. And some part of what enrages me

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Speaker 5: about the current moment is I have a set of

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Speaker 5: views that happen to be different than the presidents. I,

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Speaker 5: for instance, think immigrants of people with dignity. But also

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Speaker 5: even if we took the president, for instance, as the

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Speaker 5: president likes tariffs, the incompetence with which he executed the

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Speaker 5: trade war arguably is more responsible for the economic pain

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Speaker 5: that it caused than the reality of the tariffs. And

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Speaker 5: I think you see the same thing right now in Iran.

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Speaker 5: Right they went into Iran without objectives. They went without

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Speaker 5: stocking up on oil before we went. They went without

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Speaker 5: getting Americans out of the Middle East, and they went

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Speaker 5: without realizing there was a choke point called the strata forms,

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Speaker 5: which is obvious when you look at a map. So

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Speaker 5: you know, I think there's a You and I spent

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Speaker 5: much of twenty twenty five talking about the trade war,

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Speaker 5: and every week, if we could bring ourselves to life,

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Speaker 5: we find it almost funny about the degree of incompetence.

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Speaker 5: But now we're seeing that brought to.

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Speaker 1: A war war. Yeah, you know, we are one of

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Speaker 1: the less reported stories of the week, or maybe it

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Speaker 1: was last week, but this week, last week, it's all

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Speaker 1: the same, is that we it's a year since Liberation Day,

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Speaker 1: and we have been liberated from manufacturing jobs, from lower praises,

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Speaker 1: and from any sense that the tariffs helped the at

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Speaker 1: least help manufacturing.

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Speaker 5: Yes, that anniversary I think was quite important, because it's

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Speaker 5: time to just give up and declear the whole thing

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Speaker 5: a failure. There's not an economic INDI, Katie, you can

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Speaker 5: point to that, says boy.

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Speaker 6: Thanks.

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Speaker 5: I'm really pleased that we had tariffs. I'm glad the

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Speaker 5: US is disengaged with the rest of the world. I'm

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Speaker 5: glad the cost for American manufacturers of importing steel is

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Speaker 5: so much higher. You can't find a factory that was

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Speaker 5: brought on. I'm sure you can't find employment growth having risen.

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Speaker 5: You can't find rises in wages beyond very very small,

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Speaker 5: narrow pockets. They've got a lot of assistance. That's one

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Speaker 5: part of it. But what just strikes me and I

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Speaker 5: can't tell if this is real or the human brain

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Speaker 5: has a tendency to seed patterns. But you know, we said,

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Speaker 5: you and I went through the first month of that

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Speaker 5: trade war together and we were talking about it, and

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Speaker 5: many of the themes that came up them feel like

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Speaker 5: they're going coming out in equal measure as we go

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Speaker 5: through the first one or two months now of the

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Speaker 5: war in Iran, the questions of competence, the questions are

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Speaker 5: planning ahead, the temperamental nature of it all, the sense

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Speaker 5: that one man thinks that he has power over something

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Speaker 5: explicitly granted by the Constitution to Congress, it feels remarkably baral.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And the thing that is probably the worst part

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Speaker 1: of the whole tariff story, which is in some ways

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Speaker 1: the worst part of the whole everything Trump's story, is

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Speaker 1: that with the tariffs, the Supreme Court said no, you

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Speaker 1: don't have the right to do them, and Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: said okay, fuck you, and then didn't I mean, we

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Speaker 1: have all these I mean again, we don't know right

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Speaker 1: because we're gonna we're watching it play out, but we

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Speaker 1: have all these companies suing for the money back. And

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Speaker 1: Trump is just trying. I mean, it wasn't like he

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, I lost, let's undo all these tariffs.

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Speaker 5: No, my goodness, I can't believe you gonna make me

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Speaker 5: do this. Molly, I think you've been unfair of the president.

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Speaker 1: We'll go good, go get okay.

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Speaker 5: So just a little bit of scene setting for the

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Speaker 5: audience festival which is, Yes, the Constitution gives the power

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Speaker 5: of a tarists to Congress. Right, Congress has the power

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Speaker 5: to delegate that to the president. And histhetically, Congress has

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Speaker 5: understood that Congress isn't very good at many things, so

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Speaker 5: it delegates a lot to the president. Yes, it delegated limited.

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Speaker 6: Powers to the president over tariffs.

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Speaker 5: It didn't delegate, and the president gave himself, just grabbed

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Speaker 5: a bunch as if they'd been given to him and

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Speaker 5: they hadn't been. That's what the Supreme Court said. They said,

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Speaker 5: you were relying on AEPA. It's particular law. IEPA doesn't match. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: there's no emergency, mate, what's going on? It would have

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Speaker 5: been That would have been really actually a pretty epic

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Speaker 5: Supreme Court decision.

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Speaker 6: Mate, what's going on? Just leave it at that.

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Speaker 5: Then the president does have an authority explicitly to levy

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Speaker 5: tariffs for balance of payments crisis, and that's what the

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Speaker 5: president is levied. Now there's actually still a funny. So

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Speaker 5: he's going to a different authority, and it's one that

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Speaker 5: he may well have. Now, actually it turns out it's

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Speaker 5: one that he may well not have because the United

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Speaker 5: States may have trade deficits but a trade deficit is

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Speaker 5: not a balance of payments deficit. And if you want

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Speaker 5: me to explain that to you, I'm going to recommend

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Speaker 5: you take a valium first, you want me the valium?

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Speaker 4: Like really boring?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah. So where we are in the tariffs is

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Speaker 1: they are trying to figure out a way to undo them.

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Speaker 1: Companies are suing their Trump administration is trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out a way to do them legally mostly but things

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Speaker 1: have not gotten any cheaper.

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Speaker 5: Right, So, first of all, the first thing the president

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Speaker 5: did was impose this ten percent tariff across the board. So,

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Speaker 5: by the way, it's worth pausing because all the time

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Speaker 5: during the first you were being told the reason we

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Speaker 5: want tariffs is in order to have bargaining power against

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Speaker 5: individual nations. But if you have a ten percent across

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Speaker 5: the board, you don't have that bargaining power. And it's

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Speaker 5: not clear that he could levy tarists on an individual country.

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Speaker 5: So whatever the hell the reason is that he's doing this,

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Speaker 5: it's not the reason he gave us for why he

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Speaker 5: was doing it before. The other hilarious and haha hilarious

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Speaker 5: but also hilarious thing is he imposed the ten percent

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Speaker 5: tariff and then woke up the next morning and realized

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Speaker 5: that the statute said he could do fifteen, so he

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Speaker 5: raised it to fifteen. He said, hereby it's officially from

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Speaker 5: now on, and he truth socialed that out, and then

437
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,959
Speaker 5: everyone pretended he never said it. Yeah, well that was smart,

438
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 5: but it's super weird. The President said it's fifteen. So

439
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 5: we're getting the certainty of the business craves, as the

440
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 5: President has literally said, the tariff rate is ten percent

441
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 5: and fifteen percent, and they're all just fiddling and diddling

442
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 5: trying to figure out what it is that they want

443
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 5: to do. That tariff authority runs out in one hundred

444
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 5: and fifty days, so they're not allowed to keep going

445
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 5: on this forever. So even if they're allowed, it's not

446
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 5: even clear they're allowed. That's the doings passing. Otherwise, it

447
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 5: runs out in one hundred and fifty days. The other

448
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 5: tariff authorities that Congress. I can't believe you making you

449
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 5: be this boring, Molly.

450
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 1: All right, okay, let's talk about something else, because we

451
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: it was a sidebar anyway. And if you think you're boring, I.

452
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 5: Just love, love love doing ADHD interviews. We just bail

453
00:24:58,520 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 5: out of boring and move on.

454
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, well we get the idea, I.

455
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 5: Mean blah blah blah.

456
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 1: So consumers that i'ment down inflation up discuss.

457
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 5: Right, So today we got the first hard data from

458
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 5: the war, and that hard data says prices rose in

459
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 5: much much of that they're monthly rise in the cost

460
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 5: of living was zero point nine percent, So for a month,

461
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 5: that's astronomical, right, where we need for about two percent

462
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 5: every year. That of course is almost all energy costs.

463
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,360
Speaker 5: So we economists look instead at something called core inflation,

464
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 5: where we throw out food and energy, and people get

465
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 5: very angry about that, but it's for good reasons that

466
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 5: I could boy you with. When you look at core inflation,

467
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 5: it didn't blow out like that. But of course, the

468
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 5: way this works is when you raise oil prices prices

469
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 5: that pump go up boom. That happens straight away.

470
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 6: That's what happens a month.

471
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 5: The other thing that happens airfares go up pretty quickly.

472
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 5: But then it turns out everything through the economy gets transported.

473
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 5: Lots of stuff is oil dependent, lots of farms rely

474
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 5: on diesel blah blah blah blah blah, and so these

475
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 5: costs it's like throwing a rock into a pond. There's ripples.

476
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 5: So we've just seen the first ripple, and the question

477
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 5: is are we going to see this continue to create

478
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 5: more ripples so that broader prices that are not directly

479
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 5: gas are going to rise. Now, it turns out seeing it,

480
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 5: you don't see the second ripple straight away. We're going

481
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 5: to wait a few months to find out. So is

482
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 5: headline inflations through the roof because of war. That's the

483
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 5: oil angle. And the good news is core inflation is not.

484
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 5: But it's not really that much good news because if

485
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 5: we were going to see bad news, we wouldn't see

486
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 5: it this quickly.

487
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: Right, And also the fact that oil has moved so

488
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 1: quickly up so much is bad news period, paragraph especially

489
00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: because we do not have control over this of hermose,

490
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: even though we are technically in a ceasefire where Donald

491
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: Trump said you have to give us back control of

492
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: the straits, and then Iron said no, nope, And then

493
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: Donald Trump said, all right, I'm going to send America's

494
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: favorite diplomat, my rich friend, my son in law, and

495
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: my vice president who no one likes over there.

496
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 5: Look the thing I like about him sending Vance over

497
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,360
Speaker 5: there is that vance doesn't like war?

498
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: Right?

499
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 5: The thing I liked about the president, I'm going to

500
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 5: tell you I actually had something I liked about President Trump.

501
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 5: I liked the fact that he didn't I'm now using

502
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 5: the past tense like wolf. I thought that that was

503
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 5: the only.

504
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: Thing any of us liked about him. Yeah.

505
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, so he's left me a little heart broken right now.

506
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: You know what's funny about Trump on the war is

507
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: that we all know that Trump doesn't believe in anything

508
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,640
Speaker 1: and will just do whatever is expedient for him when

509
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: he can, and yet all of us still somehow thought

510
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 1: he wouldn't do war, right. I mean it's like it's

511
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: the proof of the talent of Trump. Is that even

512
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: pretty I mean we're pretty smart. I'm not the smartest

513
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,239
Speaker 1: member of my family, but I'm pretty smart, and I

514
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: he's the smartest mom. I think, what there's I think

515
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: one of the kids, probably.

516
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 6: I had one of those going to Chicago. That's amazing.

517
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: We don't know yet. But the point is, I do

518
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: think that when we find ourselves in a situation here

519
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: where we even though we have spent a decade knowing

520
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: that this guy just does whatever, still thought he wouldn't

521
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: do war, despite the fact that he had recently gone

522
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: into Venezuela, kidnapped the president and his wife and put

523
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: them in jail. Like there is such a soy bias.

524
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 7: There are a.

525
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 5: Whole lot of other countries he didn't invade, and you're

526
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 5: not mentioning one of them.

527
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. I mean, it's a good point.

528
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: But it is like you do see how you how

529
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: being ruled by a mad autocrat does ultimately de state

530
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: you know, just just this, it's like a bias towards normalcy,

531
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 1: a bias towards logic that are completely undeserved.

532
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 5: I don't know if this is good or bad, if

533
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 5: it's meaning de fader, if it's an intellectual breakthrough. But

534
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 5: I don't do theories of Trump.

535
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: No.

536
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, lots of people will last me on television, like

537
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 5: what do you think is in the President's mind? And

538
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 5: I'll say, that's very interesting. But here's how I think

539
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 5: this will play out for the economy. I only look

540
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 5: at actions now.

541
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you should say, I mean the theory of Trump.

542
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: There's no theory, right, there's no there's nothing.

543
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 5: What I've learned from watching is he appears to act

544
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 5: in extraordinarily idiosyncratic ways.

545
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: Right.

546
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 5: Someone might want to call that madness, someone might want

547
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 5: to call it evil, someone might want.

548
00:29:58,320 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 6: To call it old.

549
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 5: Right, I'm just gonna call it what it is, which

550
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 5: is a descriptive term.

551
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: It's idiosyncratic, nonsensical. Okay, you are known as the wine

552
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: mom whisperer. I did not make that term.

553
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 5: I just use it honestly.

554
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 6: That sounds hot.

555
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 5: Tell me more about it.

556
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: We've hit peak peak middle age here. There is a

557
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: conspiracy going on. I have asked you about this before,

558
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: but not recently because you The last time I asked you,

559
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: asked you about me about it, you swatted me down,

560
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: and it made me think that the question might have

561
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: been stupid. But how cooked are the books? Justin's cooked

562
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: are the bucks?

563
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 5: Look, it's a good question because we live in a

564
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 5: confusing world. So, and it's confusing because of the lack

565
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 5: of commitment to honesty among people you should know better.

566
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 5: So let me stop by acknowledging the importance of the question,

567
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 5: which is there was a long history of when a

568
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 5: president or a White House said something it was true.

569
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 5: They may have cherry picked a statistic, but it was true.

570
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 5: They've given that up, which means they no longer warrant

571
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 5: an assumption that any word they say is true. Now,

572
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 5: what's difficult is the White House is a political body

573
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 5: directly controlled by an In many cases, the president is

574
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 5: the spokesperson of it. It controls the federal government, which

575
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 5: has independent nerds and independent statistical agencies who were paid

576
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 5: to and still do tell the truth. So when you

577
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 5: hear an economics number, if you hear it from a

578
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 5: reputable source, or if you go to the Census Bureau

579
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 5: or the Bureau of Labor Statistics or the Bureau of

580
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 5: Economic Analysis for US, I'll just wave and say hi,

581
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 5: because I'll be there too. All of those numbers are

582
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 5: unaffected by partisan biases. Now again I didn't say true,

583
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 5: because measuring an economy is really hard. We don't know

584
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,239
Speaker 5: exactly what's going on there, and there are reasonably there

585
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 5: are reasons sometimes to debate numbers. But it's not partisant bias.

586
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 5: It's more statistical methodology that one could use.

587
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 6: For those who don't want.

588
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 5: To engage in questions of statistical methodology, first of all,

589
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 5: you're missing out. But second of all, then it's reasonable

590
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 5: for you just to say, if this came from the

591
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 5: official statistical bodies.

592
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 6: It's true.

593
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: So the answer is the books are not cooked.

594
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 5: The books are not cooked, but the people who try

595
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 5: to write the best sellers are.

596
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: So I want you to this hot take, happy Kevin,

597
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: Happy Kevin, good one going. I remember happy Kevin versus

598
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: angry Kevin. No handsome Kevin, handsome Kevin.

599
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 5: How could you forget? He's so handsome?

600
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: He whatever? Happy Kevin is not using cooked books, is

601
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: what you're saying.

602
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 5: Happy Kevin lies to a degree that no economist in

603
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 5: public life ever should and possibly ever has.

604
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: Okay, but.

605
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 5: The numbers that he sees are true.

606
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: Okay, So trust the data comes out a direct.

607
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 5: Employee of the White House Cabinet, Secretary Staffer, White House

608
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 5: Press Office. There's no presumption of truth that's warranted anymore.

609
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 5: And it takes a lot for me to say that

610
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 5: that is not a partisan claim, that's an empirical claim.

611
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 5: But the actual statistics that the statistics nerds put out

612
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 5: are still honest, serious, and better than anyone else is

613
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 5: putting out.

614
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: Okay, So trust the books, but not the not happy Kevin.

615
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 5: What you really want is a boyishly handsome economist with

616
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 5: an Australian accent. If you can find one of them.

617
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 5: I've been looking for one. If you can find one

618
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 5: of the No, I didn't say that, Molly.

619
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 6: Everyone knows you said it.

620
00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: Yes, Is this something you want to say right now, Molly?

621
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: If you're a wine mom, trust the data.

622
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, they have another wine.

623
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: They have another one, don't. I as a sober I say,

624
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: don't have another wine. But that's just me.

625
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 6: Oh, I'm also cyber.

626
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 5: But you know, if you're one mom, you are one mom,

627
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 5: despite being said, like, what do we call you? I'm

628
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 5: an athlete doing that.

629
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: I'm just not anything.

630
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 5: But you're a You're a lot to many paper Molly, you.

631
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: Are or not? Justin thank you.

632
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 5: No, we're not going until you say something about whether

633
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 5: I'm boyishly handsome or not.

634
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: Yes, handsome, okay, and more importantly correct about a lot

635
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: of stuff. It makes it. It makes economics fun great.

636
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 5: That makes you like the census purist, someone who always

637
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 5: tells the truth.

638
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: Doctor Bradley Onishi is the award winning author of Preparing

639
00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:01,399
Speaker 1: for War and the host of the Straight White American

640
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: Jesus podcast. Welcome Bradley.

641
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 7: Great to be here.

642
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:10,399
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me so talk to me about peteg Seth.

643
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 7: Now where to begin.

644
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 8: Peteg Seth is everything we thought he would be. I

645
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 8: remember talking to everyone I could on every channel possible

646
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 8: before his nomination and confirmation that we were going to

647
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 8: get a man who has bought deeply into a spiritual

648
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 8: warfare worldview, who believes that returning to Christendom is the

649
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 8: mission of the United States military. Somebody who doesn't really

650
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 8: want to go back to the nineteen fifties, but Conda

651
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 8: wants to go back to the sixteen fifties or the

652
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 8: eleven fifties. We see that not only in terms of

653
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 8: how he approaches conflict, war, foreign policy, but we see

654
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 8: it also on how he approaches gender and race and

655
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 8: sexuality and family. And so we've gotten everything we thought

656
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,240
Speaker 8: we would. The problem is is that the stakes are

657
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 8: as high as they could be when it comes to

658
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 8: a conflut with Iran, and he's the one leading our military.

659
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 1: So it feels like whenever you hear them talk, mostly Heigsath,

660
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 1: but other people too in this world that Hegsath really

661
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: believes on some level that he is engaging in a

662
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: holy war. Explain he does.

663
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,760
Speaker 8: Let's do some pete Hegseth's spiritual history here. He moved

664
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 8: his family from New Jersey, New York, to Tennessee to

665
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 8: attend a church led by a man named Brooks Pottager.

666
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 8: Now he did so knowing that that church was part

667
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 8: of a denomination founded by someone named Doug Wilson and others.

668
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 8: What we know about Doug Wilson and his denomination is

669
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 8: that they really do want openly and nation that is

670
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 8: a Christian nation, and it goes so far as to

671
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 8: be Protestant nation, he said. Recently, Doug Wilson did on

672
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 8: a podcast that processions of Catholic nature would be outlawed

673
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 8: in his ideal republic, in addition to of course mosques

674
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 8: and minarets and gudwaras and temples and so on. Additionally,

675
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 8: Brooks Pottager, the pastor to whom Petexseth has looked for

676
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,720
Speaker 8: spiritual guidance for years now, was on a podcast recently

677
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 8: where there was discussion of James Tallerco, the Senate candidate

678
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 8: from Texas, and him needing to be reborn as a

679
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 8: true Christian and if that didn't happen, the hope that

680
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 8: God would stop James Tallerico by any means necessary. So

681
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 8: for me with this signals is that Petexseth has bought

682
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 8: into a theological worldview that has no room for pluralism, dialogue, negotiation.

683
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 8: There's no sense that we live in a multi racial,

684
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 8: multi ethnic, multi religious democracy. There is only us against them,

685
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 8: and the US are Protestant Christians for the most part.

686
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 8: They're mainly and exclusively white men. And then there's everyone

687
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 8: else who doesn't fall in line to the patriarchal and

688
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 8: hierarchical vision. And this is what I mean, you know,

689
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 8: in the book that I have coming out soon, my

690
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 8: argument is like this is they don't want to go

691
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 8: back to leave it to Beaver. They want to go

692
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 8: back to medieval Christendom. And so when he talks about

693
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 8: holy war, it's not an accident and he's not cause playing.

694
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 8: This is his worldview down to the core.

695
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: So I want you to explain what the goal here is,

696
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: like holymoar steams insane? Does he really want holy wars?

697
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 1: I mean, my man went to Princeton, I mean explained he.

698
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 8: Did go to Princeton, but just like half the gop

699
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 8: elite went to Yale Law School, right, so the Ivy

700
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 8: League credentials don't seem to help, you know, I think

701
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 8: Hegseth is a lot of things. One of them, though,

702
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 8: is a figure that we've seen in American history quite often,

703
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 8: and that is the.

704
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:33,720
Speaker 7: Zealous adult convert.

705
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 1: Right.

706
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 8: This is not somebody who's been at this his entire life,

707
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 8: like Russell Vote or other evangelical figures in the Trump administration.

708
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 8: This is somebody who found this faith a couple of

709
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,959
Speaker 8: years ago, after three marriages, how many affairs, how many

710
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 8: issues with drinking and other things, and blah blah blah.

711
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 8: So what's the point? Zella's converts often are the ones,

712
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 8: and I speak as somebody who used to be one

713
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 8: of these, who take the worldview to its furthest extent.

714
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:00,919
Speaker 8: So what is the goal, you ask, Well, the goal

715
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 8: in his mind is this God is supposed to have

716
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 8: dominion over every domain.

717
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 7: Of human life.

718
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 8: That includes the church, that includes the family, but it

719
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 8: also includes the government and also includes every nation, and

720
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 8: we as Christians are meant to create and be the

721
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 8: representatives of that dominion. So when you fight a holy war, yes,

722
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 8: you may accidentally quote unquote Bamba Girls School, you may

723
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 8: spend a billion dollars a day, you may have the

724
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 8: loss of human life. But if you are able to

725
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,439
Speaker 8: conquer God's enemies, the people who stand in the way

726
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 8: of God's kingdom, then you are doing good in the world.

727
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 8: And so I think for Hegseth, there's a very clear

728
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 8: and reductive idea of what he wants to accomplish every day.

729
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 8: He wants to conquer the world for God. He wants

730
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 8: to colonize earth for Jesus. And I'm sure people are

731
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 8: out there are like, well, come on, this has got

732
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 8: to be more complex than that. It's got to be

733
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 8: more nuanced than that. It's got to be and I

734
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 8: think that we have to come to grips with the

735
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 8: fact that we've allowed a man to lead our military

736
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,240
Speaker 8: thinks in these binary terms, these either or terms. There's

737
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 8: us against them terms and the Christian versus Infidel terms,

738
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 8: and so that is to me the easiest decodering for

739
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 8: trying to figure out what Pete Hexseth is doing on

740
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 8: a daily basis when he gets up in front of

741
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 8: the cameras.

742
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the convert thing. Donald Trump loves a convert,

743
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: and I would love you to explain how this squares

744
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: with Donald Trump and his spolit.

745
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 8: I think one of the best explanations for understanding pete

746
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,760
Speaker 8: Hex's relationship to Donald Trump is that Heseth sees himself

747
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 8: as the medieval Night. If you think about the medieval knight,

748
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 8: and the evidence for this is the fact that he

749
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 8: has the Jerusalem Cross tattooed on his body. He has

750
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 8: Deveu's volt tattooed on his bicep. Those are both medieval

751
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 8: symbols and sayings that go back to the Crusades. My

752
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 8: colleague Brian Kaylor has reported and shown us that he

753
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 8: also has those symbols on his Bible. The Bible he

754
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 8: takes the church with him has medieval Crusader symbols on it.

755
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,919
Speaker 8: So if you think about pete Hexseth in the role

756
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 8: of medieval knight, the medieval knight had a certain chivalrous masculinity.

757
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 8: He was an elevated figure, not a peasant, not an artisan.

758
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 8: This was a man of great honor, great courage, and

759
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 8: he had a more in many ways adventurous life and

760
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 8: exciting life, a manly life in some ways than the king,

761
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 8: because he was the one who would ride out on

762
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,359
Speaker 8: the horse and fight the battles, the one who would

763
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 8: go to the Holy land and try and take it

764
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 8: back from the people who are considered the godless enemies

765
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 8: of the.

766
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 7: Lord and Savior.

767
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 8: The chivalrous knight is the one who goes and is

768
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 8: on the frontier of the sacred violence of building God's kingdom.

769
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 8: So it's easy for the knight to bow his knee

770
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,720
Speaker 8: to Donald Trump. It's easy for the knight to say,

771
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 8: I pledge my allegiance to you, even if you are

772
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,439
Speaker 8: not a dedicated Christian, somebody who reads the Bible, goes

773
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 8: to church, whatever, because your mission aligns with God's mission.

774
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 8: The kingdom you're trying to build. Donald Trump aligned with

775
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 8: God's kingdom, at least for now. So my liege, I

776
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 8: bowed to you, and I will go into the world

777
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 8: and I will perpetrate every destructive act I can think of,

778
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 8: every form of quote unquote lethality, every disgusting approach to

779
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 8: destroying infrastructure or attacking civilians, because in the name of God,

780
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 8: that's allowed. There's a permission structure there for those kinds

781
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 8: of actions.

782
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: He is a convert, and that is part of his zalidousness.

783
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: And that is remember, Donald Trump loves a convert. Donald

784
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 1: Trump is a convert, except not really right sort of

785
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 1: who else you see in this administration as fighting this

786
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:35,439
Speaker 1: holy war.

787
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 8: Like Pete Hegseck, the person we have to point to

788
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 8: who's not in the headlines right now is Russ Vote.

789
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 8: Russ Vote is a little different than Pete hag Seth.

790
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 8: Russ Vote's a true believer. I mean, this is somebody

791
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 8: who since his teenage years has been on a mission,

792
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 8: and that mission includes destroying the government in the name

793
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 8: of a kind of unbound executive power.

794
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,439
Speaker 1: I just would love you to square that with russ

795
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: fault as a daughter who has cystic fibrosis.

796
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 8: Yeah, so if you're someone like Rostvote, you're going to

797
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 8: most likely have a worldview that says, my daughter has

798
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 8: cistic fibrosis and her needs should be met by two institutions,

799
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 8: her family and her church. The government has nothing to

800
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 8: do with that. The argument they're going to make, and

801
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 8: it's not one that I think is very good, is

802
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 8: that if everyone had a functioning family, quote unquote, and

803
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 8: if everybody had a robust church community, then all of

804
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 8: the needs for everyone, including those with cistic fibrosis.

805
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,240
Speaker 7: Would be met. Now we know that's not true.

806
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 8: We know, I mean, we can pull out the decades

807
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 8: of social science and studies about how infrastructure and social

808
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 8: space and needs are met and all of that. But

809
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 8: what he's going to tell you is actually, by destroying

810
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 8: the government, I'm helping my daughter because I'm going to

811
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 8: get rid of the regulations. I'm going to get rid

812
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 8: of the bureaucracy, I'm going to get rid of the

813
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:51,800
Speaker 8: red tape. I'm going to get rid of the government

814
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 8: looking over my shoulder trying to interfere with my family

815
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 8: and my approach to helping my daughter. And that's actually

816
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 8: the best thing for her. Now, does that that so

817
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 8: many folks in inner city Philadelphia or rural Missouri or

818
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 8: the outskirts of Portland, Maine are going to like fall

819
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 8: by the wayside because they don't have the resources he has. Yes,

820
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 8: and he's going to chalk that up to fallen. This

821
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 8: to sin, to evil and people not obeying God. So

822
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 8: to me, like, that's the true believer mentality that justifies cruelty,

823
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 8: that sees pain as redemptive. And so Vote is another

824
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 8: true believer in this administration for sure.

825
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting. So Vote Haig says, who else, Well.

826
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 8: We got another convert we need to talk about. He's

827
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 8: got a new book coming out, and that's JD. Vance

828
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,720
Speaker 8: and so, you know, I think what we're seeing now

829
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 8: is two strains of American Christian nationalism coming into conflict.

830
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 8: You know, Pete hegg Seth has been rebuffed by the Pope,

831
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 8: and we now have reporting that there was, for the

832
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,760
Speaker 8: first time in American history, a meeting with Pentagon officials

833
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 8: and representatives from the Vatican in the United States. And

834
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 8: the way that meeting went, according to the reporting, is

835
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 8: that the Vatican was read the Riot.

836
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 7: Act line by line by the Pentagon.

837
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 8: And so there's this sense that Pope Leo's comments about

838
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 8: war and having blood on your hands and God not

839
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 8: hearing the prayers of those who perpetrate war was a

840
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 8: direct attack on Ptexeth and Donald Trump and the administration

841
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 8: and the Pentagon did not like that. However, the man

842
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 8: that's caught in the middle of this is JD. Vance,

843
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 8: a man who converted to Catholicism in twenty nineteen, who

844
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 8: is a true believer, who is over and hungry as

845
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 8: we speak, stumping for Victor Orbon talking about how our

846
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 8: two countries have a shared Christian civilization and a shared

847
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 8: Christian heritage. Many Catholics, even those who consider themselves Christian nationalists,

848
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 8: Catholic integrilists, people that we would consider a radical reactionary

849
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 8: strain of Catholicism have called into question the conflict in Iran,

850
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 8: people like Soerabamari, people like Steve Bannon, a Catholic.

851
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 7: So there is a fissure here.

852
00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 8: Between pte Hexth's Protestant approach to a military and JD.

853
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 8: Vance is all out Catholicism, and it's it's put the

854
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 8: Vice President in a place where I think he's trying

855
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 8: to figure out how to position himself. I think he's

856
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 8: honestly a little bit lucky right now to be in

857
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:13,720
Speaker 8: Hungry and not be in front of the American press

858
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 8: and have people asking about where he stands on everything.

859
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:21,439
Speaker 1: Christian nationalists are clearly a big part of this equation, right,

860
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 1: and Israel factors into that because you know, you have

861
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 1: this sort of Mike Kakkabee strand of this would love

862
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: you to explain what that is.

863
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,839
Speaker 8: Yeah, So I think the conflict of Iran is tied

864
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 8: into a larger disagreement in the Christian nationalist world about

865
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 8: the state of Israel and the United States's relationship with

866
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,800
Speaker 8: the State of Israel. So you mentioned my Kokabee, I

867
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 8: would characterize Mike Kokabee as as kind of in the

868
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 8: lineage of the old religious right, the moral majority. He's

869
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 8: an evangelical Christian, and he believes that Jesus will return soon.

870
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 8: And for Jesus to return, one of the things that

871
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 8: needs to happen is for Israel to be a safe

872
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 8: and strong place and for it to be able to

873
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 8: conquer its enemies. And so for Mike Huckabee, there is

874
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 8: a sense that Israel plays a decisive role not just

875
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 8: in foreign policy, but in cosmic politics and the end times.

876
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 7: In addition, he.

877
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 8: Believes that Israel has a right to basically dominion over

878
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 8: the entire Middle East. He told that to Tucker Carlson.

879
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 8: So he comes out of that strain of what I

880
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 8: would call Christian aationalism.

881
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 7: It's the old school religious right.

882
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 8: It's what you might have heard from Jerry Folwell, It's

883
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 8: what you might have heard from the likes of the

884
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 8: George W. Bush orbit of evangelicals. And you see it

885
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 8: in Mike Kukabee. You also see it in some of

886
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 8: the New Apostolic Reformation characters, people who are charismatic, more pentecostal.

887
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 8: The most important figure in the Trump administration in this

888
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 8: group is paul A White. Paula White somebody who believes

889
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 8: that Christians should give money to the State of Israel

890
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 8: as part of their monthly giving. This is somebody who

891
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 8: believes that Israel is anointed by God, and that if

892
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 8: you visit a church that's part of the New Apostolic Reformation,

893
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:05,839
Speaker 8: there is a very good chance you will see more

894
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 8: State of Israel flags than you will see American flags.

895
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 8: The dedication to Christian Zionism runs that deep in this

896
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 8: space of Christian nationalism.

897
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 7: So on one side, we've got the.

898
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 8: Religious right, and we've got Mike Kukabee in addition to

899
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,959
Speaker 8: Paula White and the New Apostolic Reformation. They are all

900
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,399
Speaker 8: in on the United States giving everything possible in terms

901
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 8: of aid and help and military might to Israel. However,

902
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 8: what has happened is the development of an isolationist America

903
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 8: first Christian nationalism space. These are folks, and there's Protestants

904
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 8: and Catholics in this group who really don't see Israel

905
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 8: as playing that same role in the end times or

906
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 8: the apocalypse as Mike Kukabee or Paulo White might say.

907
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 8: They don't see Israel, in other words, as having an

908
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 8: end times exceptional role, and therefore they don't see Israel

909
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 8: as having a foreign policy exceptional role. They're going to

910
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 8: ask the question, like Tucker Carlson has been lately, why

911
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 8: would we give as much money as we do to

912
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 8: Israel and not to other countries? And in fact, why

913
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 8: should we give aid and all billions of dollars to anybody?

914
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 8: Why don't we just take care of America first?

915
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 7: That's what Donald Trump promised.

916
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 8: And so many of the Catholics that I'm talking about,

917
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 8: the radical traditional Catholics, they fall into this more isolationist

918
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 8: foreign policy. They really don't want a conflict at Iran

919
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 8: much less do they want a conflict where we're going

920
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,839
Speaker 8: to support Israel at all costs. Many of them are

921
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 8: folks that would say, why are we even supporting Ukraine?

922
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 8: Jd Vance famously said, I don't really care what happens

923
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 8: in Ukraine. And so they fall into that camp. And

924
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 8: so there is again, once again a fissure between these

925
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 8: different kinds of Christian nationalists. One group who says, support

926
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 8: Israel at all costs because that's what God wants. Others saying, no,

927
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 8: we're supposed to support America first at all costs because

928
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 8: that's what God wants. And there's growing division there and

929
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 8: you can see that in the administration.

930
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 7: Jadvan's on one side and Mica could be on the other.

931
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: So we saw Pete heeg sas fired pretty much all

932
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 1: the women and black people. Is he just racist or

933
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 1: is there something else and sexist? Or is there something

934
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: else here at play?

935
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 8: So let's start with I think gender and sexuality. I'm

936
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 8: going to talk about Doug Wilson once again. So this

937
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:27,240
Speaker 8: is Pete Heex's sort of theological mentor Doug Wilson believes,

938
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 8: and these are this is a direct quote that women

939
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 8: are the kinds of people that people come out of

940
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 8: in his church and in his ministry. He believes women

941
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 8: should have no leadership role in the church, in the government,

942
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 8: or in the home. When it comes to the home,

943
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 8: they are the domestic administrators and executives, but they submit

944
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 8: to their husbands in every way. That is the sort

945
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 8: of bedrock of the theology of gender and family for

946
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 8: the Doug Wilson theological universe. This is a theological universe

947
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 8: in which Pete Hexath is thoroughly embedded. So when it

948
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 8: comes to women in combat, when it comes to women

949
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:02,760
Speaker 8: in military LEADLeadership. To me, there's a very clear line

950
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 8: from his theology to his policy. Women are not going

951
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 8: to be in leadership roles. Women should not be in combat,

952
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 8: and if I had my way, we'd have a men

953
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 8: only military, kind of like they used to have in

954
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 8: medieval Christendom in the good old days. When it comes

955
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 8: to race, there's no denying that there's clear evidence of racism.

956
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 8: I think that's something that has a theological route. So again,

957
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 8: Doug Wilson and others in that universe have said things

958
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 8: like the time of enslavement in this country was the

959
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 8: time of the greatest harmony between the races. Pete hegsa's pastor,

960
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 8: Brooks Pottager, was just on a podcast with a man

961
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 8: named Joshua Haymes who said it is not against the

962
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 8: Bible and it is not a sin for one person

963
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 8: to own another person. This is a direct tie to

964
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 8: Pete Hegsett. This is not somebody he used to know.

965
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 8: It's not somebody he mentioned one time. This is his

966
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 8: pastor appearing on podcasts where people are saying it is

967
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:55,359
Speaker 8: not a sin to own another person. So I think

968
00:51:55,400 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 8: there's theological evidence for not wanting black people in leadership.

969
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 8: I also think this is a pan maga sort of issue.

970
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 8: They have made their hey over the last year and

971
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 8: a half on the idea that any black person, any

972
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 8: person of color in leadership is a dei higher, that

973
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 8: they were only put there because of wokeness and Joe

974
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 8: Biden and the Democrats, who are you know, out to

975
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 8: replace white people. So I think that when it comes

976
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 8: to the race part, we can see theology. We can

977
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 8: also just see a kind of pan maga racism that's

978
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 8: been present for the last ten years of Donald Trump's

979
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 8: political career and is raging in Pete hexss leadership of

980
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:31,280
Speaker 8: our armed forces.

981
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 1: Thank you, it's so upsetting, so upsetting. Thank you, thank you,

982
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 1: thank you. No mormul Jesse Cannon Smiley.

983
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 2: This happened after we finished taping the other day, but

984
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 2: I couldn't let it slide because it's just so ridiculous

985
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 2: and there's so many things that get lost in the

986
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 2: news cycle.

987
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 4: We're threatening the Vatican.

988
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: We are not threatening the Vatican.

989
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,799
Speaker 4: The American Pope got a boat to picking a few

990
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:03,280
Speaker 4: to break.

991
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 1: Now, do not get me involved in this. I am

992
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 1: a Jew. I did not get involved in this, but

993
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:11,760
Speaker 1: I actually really like the new Pope. I think he's great.

994
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 1: You'll remember that jd Vance had a meeting with the

995
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 1: last pope and then the next day he died. So

996
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: do with that information what you will. Basically, the Vatican

997
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: has been trolling jd Vance. Jd Vance has been you know, jadvancing.

998
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 1: The Pentagon's Policy Office chief, Eldridge Colby, huddled with a cardinal,

999
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: the Vatican's former diplomat to the US, at the Pentagon.

1000
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 1: This was reported by Barry Wise's Free Press on Monday.

1001
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:47,359
Speaker 1: During that meeting, Kolby warned that the US military has

1002
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 1: the power to do whatever it wants and that the

1003
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 1: Church had better take a side. Okay, so now we

1004
00:53:53,719 --> 00:54:01,240
Speaker 1: have the Pentagon's Policy Office chief threatening the Pope. Now

1005
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but I feel like you have to work

1006
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 1: real hard to come to bliss with the Pope, the pontiff,

1007
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 1: the spiritual leader of all Catholics. I don't know. This

1008
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 1: seems like it's a really good sign of just how

1009
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: incredibly fucked our administration is. The Free Press, owned by

1010
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 1: Barry Wise, also reported, citing unnamed sources, that US official

1011
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 1: raised the threat of the Avignon papacy, referring to a

1012
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:39,800
Speaker 1: nearly seventy year period between thirteen oh nine and seventeen

1013
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:43,399
Speaker 1: seventy six, when Francis King Philip captured the Pope and

1014
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 1: following Pope's resideing in Avignon, France as opposed to Rome.

1015
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 1: Oh okay, it's not often that I get to defend

1016
00:54:55,800 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: Christianity or Catholicism, but I'll do it today. What the

1017
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 1: fuck I mean? It is so easy not to get

1018
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 1: into fights with the fucking Pope, you assholes. Thank you.

1019
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,239
Speaker 4: Laser focused on the whole economy.

1020
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:18,720
Speaker 1: That's right. Laser focused on affordability for the American people.

1021
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

1022
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best

1023
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:34,359
Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If

1024
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

1025
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.