WEBVTT - Leaving NAFTA Makes No Sense, Frenkel Says 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:13.800 Yeah, Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keane Jaily. 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:17.560 We bring you insight from the best in economics, finance, investment, 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:23.480 and international relations. Find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:32.960 Bloomberg dot Com, and of course on the Bloomberg We 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:35.640 pretty get right to this interview. We have two incredibly 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:39.040 exceptional guests with us today and it is an honor 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:42.160 to have them here together, and we're gonna speak on 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:45.800 one theme. Lord Tyson needs no introduction to anyone within 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:50.120 our economic academics and particularly within public service. She is 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:54.400 a former UH Chairman of the President's Council of Economic 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:57.880 Advisors UH and is also teaching at the University of 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:02.880 California at Berkeley School. With this each and every year, 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:05.120 it seems at Davos. Maybe I think that's correct. Is 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:08.720 Kenneth Rogoff His book of last year, The Curse of Cash, 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:10.520 was my book of the year. I make a joke 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:13.080 that the next effort will be the Curse of Bitcoin. 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:16.280 But to have the two of you here with your academics, 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.160 I want to clear the air on the debate at 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.520 the end of two thousand seventeen, which is do tax 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:26.880 cuts drive economic growth? The center points of this was 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:30.720 Kevin Hasset, Professor Tyson, who has your job now at 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:33.440 the White House, UH chairman of the President's Council of 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:37.720 Economic Advisors, and the Lori Paul Krugman of Princeton. I'd say, 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.000 driving the dialogue with many others. Kens, as we saw 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:45.240 Ken out of Opsfield, Rogoff out of your other work 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:49.600 over the years, is there as certitude that tax cuts 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:56.520 can drive permanent economic growth? Well, okay, I mean lower 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:00.440 attacks rights. If you could somehow magically produce the government 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:05.240 spending in revenues you need from oil or something else, sure, 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:09.080 but you know, in the long run, UH, you have 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.280 to pay for government services. And by the way, in 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:15.720 this stage of inequality, it's just really hard to imagine 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:19.160 how government services and transfers aren't gonna rise over time. 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:22.200 It's I do think, you know, I I certainly see 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:25.400 the case that tax cuts do benefit, you know, have 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:30.000 a benefit compared to UH government, you know, some something 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.960 that raises taxes a little long run. But I have 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:38.639 enormous respect for Kevin Hassett, I think, but the figures 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:42.680 were very optimistic on what the growth would be Professor Tyson, 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:45.079 you're nodding your head. I think of Rick Michigan and Colombia, 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:49.000 and you is linking in core economics into Okay, we're 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:51.360 in the room in Washington, and now we have to 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:55.600 affect policy. How do you respond to the certitude that 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:59.360 Kevin Hassett has to deal with from Trump supporters and 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:03.480 from frankly direct White House officials representing the president. So 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:05.959 I would say, first of all, it's important to recognize 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:08.400 the role of the Council of Economic Advisors, which is 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:13.160 to give objective, unbiased advice. And I think one of 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:16.120 the criticisms of the of the work that was done 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:18.840 by the c e A UH is that really it 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:22.200 was a selective choice of evidence. It was the most 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:27.160 optimistic evidence. There's plenty of evidence that tax cuts will 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:31.000 generate growth. I think what was actually off scale there 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:35.840 was the magnitude, and particularly the magnitude for wages, because essentially, 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:38.800 I would say, look in the past, we already know 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:44.560 that productivity enhancements have not been turning into wages already. UH, 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:48.040 We've now given a major tax cut to businesses. I 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:51.440 supported that, I actually supported that, but I think we 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:55.160 there were ways to pay for it. We chose not 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:58.000 to do that. Other countries that have cut tax rates 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:02.320 for business to increase investment, have increased taxes on the 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:06.560 owners of capital, have increased value added taxes, have found 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:10.840 another revenue source, a carbon tax. Why why not say, okay, 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:14.040 growth from cutting some business taxes, we gotta pay for it, 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:16.160 otherwise it's going to defeat itself. One of the great 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:18.520 things about Davos is I can see Peter or zegg 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:21.039 in ten minutes later see Douglas Elmendorf, And they're the 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.680 ones that have worked at CBO over the years. Does 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:28.080 Laura Tyson having her head the percentage deficit to GDP 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:31.320 that is a trip point for the president or three 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:34.839 points something? And there's a great certitude at trillion dollars 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.599 here on going dirks and and you can a trillion dollars. 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:41.200 There is there a point where you worry? Is it five? 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:44.359 Is it six? Is seven? Look? I I don't, I think, 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:46.719 and I think I should get ken here as well. 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:51.160 I think the general of you that I've thought about is, 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:54.080 you know, a projected deficits in the three to four 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:57.320 percent range right now. The global capital markets and the 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:00.600 way they're behaving and US investors and behaving that is 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:03.720 sustainable for the US. We're talking about a long term 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:08.599 we we have fundamentally now reduced the taxation share of 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:12.640 GDP to a level which just does not match the 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:16.160 long runs sustainable. That's classic, That's classic Tyson linkoln and 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:18.680 policy Ken. How do you respond to it? With all 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:22.000 of your research with Carmen Reiner? Do you worry that 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:24.560 we're going to trip the deficit to GDP? Are we 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:26.960 gonna be talking about twin deficits in a few years 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:30.480 here at Davos? Well? No, but I mean I think 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:34.920 the reality of the debt rhetoric in Washington is that whoever, 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:39.360 whichever party is uh out of power thinks that debt 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:42.800 and deficits are bad because the party in power spending 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:47.040 it on their priority, their friends, their base, and so 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.680 you go back and forth. I mean, maybe the Republicans 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:51.520 talk about it a little more, but if you look 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:55.440 around the world, a lot of the conversation about debt 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:57.520 is really, hey, wait a second, I might be in 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:00.400 power in four years and you're spending my money. If 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:02.520 you're doing the spending, I won't be able to do 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:05.200 as much. But no, I mean, I said the US 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:10.599 has enormous borrowing capacity. The dollar has become more powerful 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:15.360 than it was under Bretton Woods. But you are spending 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.840 future money. It is so hard. Obviously it's going to 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.440 be harder to raise spending at taxes. Remember that was 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:25.240 Ronald Reagan's rationalization for why he was doing the tax cuts. 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:27.960 I think that's the rationalization. You know, I was listening 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:30.560 to this issue of closing down government. One way you 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:34.280 can gradually close down government is just a denuded of revenues. 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:39.040 And so there was a significant part of this momentum 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:42.480 for tax cuts coming from the group of people who 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:45.320 want to significantly reduce the size of government. And if 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:47.400 the money is not there, you're gonna have to reduce 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.600 the size. So we've heard from people saying the next 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.800 step is entitlement reform. That is the next step is 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.320 going to be work requirements on everything to kind of 0:06:56.360 --> 0:07:00.440 reduce the amount of spending, not to mention things like 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.760 spending on basic science or infrastructure. I'm waiting with bated 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:08.440 breath to see the infrastructure plan here. Absolutely you wonder 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:10.360 where it is, And yeah, I guess you could also 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:14.520 wonder why it hasn't shown yet. Ken one final question 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:16.920 if we could, and that is on what kind of 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:21.040 economy we should be studying. Paul Krugman has talked about 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:25.360 a wistfulness back to John Hicks in nine and people say, 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:27.640 wait a minute, that was a different world, a different 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:30.920 economy back than You can't use those models. Now, what's 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:34.400 the model that works for America within the unique America 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:36.560 that the president is going to talk about? Are we 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:40.640 a big, giant open economy? Are we more closed than 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.320 we think? We're not more close than we think. We 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:45.840 need to look to the future, and I, yes, we 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.200 have problems that were better in the past, but I 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.760 don't want to look to tired old solutions for dealing 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:53.960 with them. For example, I think we need better education, 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:57.800 But does that mean quadrupling the number of state collegists 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:00.720 like Bernie Sanders has or does it in you know, 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:04.800 digital education and finding new ways to reach broader audience 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:08.280 as adult education. Many examples like this. We can do 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:12.320 things differently and better, but that doesn't mean like this 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.800 is what Bloomberg surveillance is all about. Thank you so much. 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:17.800 This was done spur of the moment, folks, with Professor 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.960 Rogoff and with Professor Tyson and just wonderful to both 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:25.280 of you with your public service and academics with us today. 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:28.000 She is from the High School, University of California, Berkeley. 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:44.240 He is from Harvard University. Mr Frankel's a former governor 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:46.800 at the Bank of Israel. He works for a gentleman 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:50.200 named Jamie Diamond. Jacob was out on the roof saying, 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:54.400 get that helicopter away, Get that helicopter away. He is 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:59.520 the chairman of JP Morgan International and truly provides economic 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.840 person active to the clients of James Steamond and all 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:06.600 of JP Morgan. Of course Mr Frankel doing a little 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:09.720 bit of economic research a few years ago at Chicago. 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:13.600 So Dr Frankel, though, you don't put your power point away, 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:17.960 faying yesterday of China had his power point out and 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.880 it made worldwide headlines. But John Jacob Frankel is the 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:25.040 one guy who he's the one guy who doesn't need 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:28.600 a power point when he talks to Bloomberg Surveillance. What 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:32.600 I would suggest, UH, Professor Frankel is, here's the money 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:34.520 question of the day, and it comes from one of 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:40.400 our sophisticated UH listeners who is a currency manipulator. Now 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.240 that's a loaded question, isn't it. It is a very 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:48.559 loaded question, And the truth of the matter is, it's 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:54.320 extremely difficult to answer that question, even in theory. You know, 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:56.360 when you have a picture that he's hanged on the 0:09:56.360 --> 0:10:00.760 wall and then it falls, who is the Who is 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:05.040 the fault, the world's fault, the pictures fault, the nails fault, 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:08.959 the combinations thereof. Now all not, of course, not all 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:13.960 analogies are good enough to explain the complexity of this question. 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.840 Because the truth of the matter is, when monetary policy 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:24.160 is becoming very, very loose, naturally, the value of the 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:30.520 currency that is being printed and supplied is diminishing. That's 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:32.880 the reason why prices go up, and that's the reason 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:36.280 why the currency depreciates in the foreign exchange market. Now, 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:41.400 was this a currency manipulated? The normal answer is we 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:44.360 need to know what was the intent. If the intent 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:47.440 was to boost the economy, then people will say it 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:50.160 is not a currency manipulator. If the intent was to 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:53.160 depreciate the currency, then it is. It is only an 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:55.760 example why it is complex the question. The point of 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:58.760 the matter is, I really think we should achieve the 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:04.720 discussion from nominal exchange rate as as is being now 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:09.880 discussed into real exchange rate. Namely, what are the factors 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:14.600 the determined the international competitiveness of a country, not of 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:19.080 a currency of a country, a country that is highly productive. 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:26.160 President Trump taking away our international competitiveness. President Trump has 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:29.360 not yet started doing what the what the president is 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:31.560 put terms and you know little things like that, I 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:34.200 know you don't. I don't. I can tell you I 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:38.080 am in general against anything that may look like a trade. 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:40.720 Mr Diamond said there as well. Yes, but I want 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:46.440 to say that I rather have a discussion rather than 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:50.480 shooting the guns. I want to tell you that I think, 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:55.920 for example, that the US threats of living after makes 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.320 no sense to me. I think that that the fact 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:00.720 that the US did not sign at T T P A, 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:05.479 etcetera is not good. The fact that both candidates for presidency, 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:09.920 Hillary Clinton and Trump were so protectionist in their rectoring 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:13.120 is not good because it basically gives a message also 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.520 to the American people that somebody is there to deprive us. 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:19.040 We are not. We need to compete and we need 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.880 to improve. If you're just joining us for FoST Jacob Franco, 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:24.199 whether US from JP, Morgan Chase, we welcome all of 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:27.240 you worldwide to our studios in New York with John 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:29.680 Farrell and Tim Keene of the World Economic Form meetings 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:34.320 and Daphos. Dr Frankel has been incredibly generous with this time. Today, 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.280 I'm looking at the Bloomberg terminal and whether it's a 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:41.040 fancy guy like me or our most basic listener currencies 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:44.479 around the move, How does a pro like you define 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:48.680 sean country chees brutal moves? What does that really mean? 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:50.839 And are we in the middle of a brutal move 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:56.720 right now? If the brutal move means a large move, 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.120 then you it's in the eyes of the bill the 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:04.360 what is very large, very large, very very very brutal, etcetera. Again, 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.440 I think that what we should do is create a situation. Well, 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:13.840 sharp moves of the currency do not have sharp effect. Namely, 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:20.880 developed the mechanisms to protect investors from shout moves, developed 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:25.360 the futures markets, developed the forwards market, developed the hedging approaches. 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:28.319 And not everyone needs to be speculated in the phone 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:32.920 exchange market. It's too complex. Within that is the corporate response. 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:34.800 You know, we all learn the J curve out of 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:38.720 David Beggs classic textbook or during Bush Fisher Stars and 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:42.679 the other basic textbook. Does the old style currency trade 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:46.600 dynamics still work or we do another regime where Maurice 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:48.880 Hobs fell and Ken Rogo got to go write a 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.720 whole new book. Is it a new world? Well, the 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:55.319 world has evolving, and do you know what, in many 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:59.520 many areas, new chapters are being written. My only advice 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:03.240 as an old time is to say, don't throw the 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:06.720 old textbooks away. They have a lot of wisdom to 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:10.400 teach us. Yes, do learn from the most recent experience 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:14.200 by adding chapters, but not displays the old textbooks. So 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:17.600 I believe that we have a cumulative experience that comes 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:21.040 from many, many years, very few countries who were able 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:24.600 to gain competitiveness through currency manipulation. And I want to 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:27.520 make very clear her folks that that I call him 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.840 Professor Frankel still from his iconic research of years ago. 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:34.760 He's in a delicate position. He's with JP Morgan Chase International. 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:38.480 Obviously he's vising Mr Diamond. He can't talk about that. 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.480 That's what you do at banks. And at the same time, 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.280 as a former governor of a major central bank, he 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:46.880 really doesn't want to talk central bankers. So let's do 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:52.600 that right now, Mr Drug, Mr Corota, the current governor 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:55.440 of the Bank of Israel. They have to respond to 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:59.560 that minution headline. I mean, I remember responding seeing people 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:03.960 respond to Brazil's currency univentions of years ago. How do 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:08.320 the players like you respond to a Secretary of Treasury 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:13.600 suggesting a weak dollar policy? As I say, I did 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:18.480 not here, I did not hear what the secretary actually said. 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:21.760 What I can say is something in principle, you do 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:29.240 not gain sustainable long term competitiveness by just weakening your currency. 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:34.040 It will be eroding, eroded very quickly. On the contrary, 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:37.560 it can be counterproductive because it will deflect the attention 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:40.920 from the deeper issues of how to improve long term 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:44.280 competitive work. This is what Davos is all about, folks. 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:47.000 And Frankly Bloomberg surveillance. The honor of being here with 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:50.960 Jacob Frankel and earlier Ken Rogoff really speaks to my 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:54.080 team and what they do to drag these people away. 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:58.800 As uh Mr Frankel was with his colleague Mr Diamond, 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.720 this is a wonderful visit. And and folks, this is 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:18.480 about healthcare. It's about the profitability of healthcare, and it's 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:21.680 such a large part of all of our lives. I 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:25.120 just really can't say enough about it. Joining us now 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:28.880 is a gentleman of great extinction. He uh says, we 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:30.840 may live to a hundred and twenty and he is 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.360 cutt and chiseled at the august age of sixty nine 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:36.280 years old and holding is well, how do you do it? 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.400 You walk in here, Michael Neidorf, And you know, is 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:41.640 that the air in St. Louis is? Is there something 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.720 about the Midwest and you're working healthcare that makes you 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:47.760 look the the the youth that you talk about when 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:51.080 you're on panels here. I think it's the travel and 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:53.920 talking to people like you, Okay, you know what I mean, 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:56.920 people that are young and aggressive. Yeah, I mean, I 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:58.880 mean we'll talk about St. Louis here in a bit, 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.400 but I have to talk about a stock that is 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:04.919 and there's the highest accolade, Dana her like. You just 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.199 continue to make money in the last ten years. Your 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:11.199 stock is going up per year, and yet you're in 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:13.760 a business that I'm told doesn't make any money. Healthcare 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:17.480 is terrible. Nobody makes money. How do you make revenues 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:21.800 and profits that generates that stock performance in an industry 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:23.800 that never makes money. How do you do that? We've 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.679 maintained that the highest quality of care is at least expensive. 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:31.639 We work hard. We have great medical management systems that 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:34.679 help to ensure that the doctors have the information, and 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:39.479 most importantly, we have systems that are becoming predictive and 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.840 allow you to be interdictive, so that if you if 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:44.960 you know somebody's potas team is going up, you know 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:46.879 he's a whisk for a heart attack, you can get 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:50.560 ahead of the curve. So it's really all about determining 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:54.199 that somebody has a condition before it becomes a major problem. 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:56.359 We just had in the president of the leader of 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:59.840 New York University's wonderful hospital in New York. I'm gonna 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:03.520 ask the same question I asked that physician. How do 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.800 you do the revolution we're all having in healthcare and 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:10.000 keep the doctors and nurses happy. I believe they're the 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:12.600 providers of it, aren't they? Yes, well, I am view. 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:16.880 We have always viewed doctors as our product, not a partner, 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:20.520 but our product. And you, if you're smart about it, 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:22.320 you take very good care of your How do you 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:24.959 do that to incentivise them with salary? Is it tickets 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:26.800 to the St. Louis Blues. I mean, what do you do? 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.440 You know what we do is we give them information 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:32.800 that allows them to be more effective and more productive. 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.760 We pay them fairly, not excessively, not under paying, but 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.160 we can try to pay them fairly, and we try 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:44.399 to provide information that just generally helps him understand what 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.399 we're all trying to achieve together. Where do we stand 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.359 in this nation with healthcare? Your knee deep in it? 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:54.600 You have decades of experience away from the media hot 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:58.560 air of the Affordable Care Act and the eight tangents 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:02.600 off of it. Are you happy with where we're going? Well, 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:07.440 I'm I'm hopeful. I think the the Affordable Care Active 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:10.320 Voice we've done very well with with the largest provider, 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:13.879 and we goose significly in January with the And it's 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.120 just about putting units through the door. I mean, the 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:18.960 the Affordable Care Act gives more people more coverage, which 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:20.960 puts more units through the door. And we need that. 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:23.000 We I mean, it's a it is an entitled when 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:26.400 this country healthcare, So we work on that and that's 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:29.560 that's very important. But I am I am optimistic that 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:33.359 systems and the approach over time, ring the cost under control. 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:36.359 I want to uh completely switched gears on you to 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:41.120 your exceptional leadership to the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra. How 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:44.520 do we maintain classical music in this nation? I asked 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:47.520 Gary Park, with all of his relationship with the New 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:53.320 York Philharmonic, the same thing. How do we maintain orchestras 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:56.439 for kids on YouTube? How do we let them know 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:59.520 who Mendelssohn is, Tchaikovsky is? How do we let them 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:02.960 know the more modern classical music? What's the path to 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:05.720 the future. I think you have to do several things. One, 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:07.640 you have to do things to encourage him to come 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:11.080 into the hall and hear music. You started with youth orchestras, 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:13.360 but you also have members of the orchestra go out 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:17.520 into the community in small groups. And what the appetite 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:21.639 of youth we uh My wife started a program, she's 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.480 on the executive game now and she started a program 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:30.120 Experienced the Music and other programs that get children engaged 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:33.800 at a very young age with what music is all 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.520 about and leaves it to life. Do we need a 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:40.240 Leonard Burnstind that gave us that magic that all I 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:43.720 do and we we had Leonards acculate in St. Louis. 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:45.760 That did a lot of that, and it takes that 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:48.760 kind of conduct, takes that kind of says Zaha in 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:52.080 Boston or whatever. Then David Robertson, who's just stepping down 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:55.320 the next year, that they have that magic. Very good. 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:57.400 This has been wonderful, my cold, Thank you so much. 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:01.960 She's a senting, of course, a science uh in healthcare 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:20.480 and of course out of St. Louis. I'm Tim Keenan Dabos. 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:23.720 And now what does an annual visit? Was? Somebody who 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:27.720 I think has had three or four occupations or jobs 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:30.960 in each of his annual visits. Anthony Scaramucci used to 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:34.160 play for the New York Mets, and he joins now 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:39.480 on a most interesting and historic day for the Trump administration. 0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:42.760 Of course, Mr Scaramucci was a former communications director for 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:45.800 the President. I believe he was in the media last 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:49.840 year a little bit. But here comes the President, of course, 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:53.040 Secretary Monution today driving dollar weeker with a week dollar policy. 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:55.480 We'll get to all that. Let's clear up things first. 0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:58.199 I have heard a little bit of percolation that you 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.119 may rejoin the administration. Is there any truth to that? 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:04.439 There's no truth to that that that I'm aware of. 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:06.399 I mean, i've I've I've heard that as well. You 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:08.280 mentioned the number of jobs that I had. You should 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:09.879 also mention the fact that I don't have any w 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:12.640 two so many of those jobs thom because I did 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:16.639 all those jobs without making any money. That's pretty cool. Okay, amen, right, 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:19.320 I guess that's good news from my my account. Within 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:23.000 this is the idea of advising the president. Have you 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:26.720 spoken to him or his small entourage coming to Davos 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:30.120 to give them best Davos practices because you and Mr 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:33.679 Kohona I was suggested the two with the most experience. Yeah, listen, 0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:36.200 I I obviously have a very close personal relationship with 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:39.280 Secretary Manuchin. We worked closely together on the campaign, know 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:42.240 each other a long time. Gary and I know each 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:45.560 other from Goldman. But they didn't need any advice or 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:48.880 from me. I mean, obviously they're gonna do great things here. 0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:52.800 I saw Governor Perry or now Secretary Perry this morning. 0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:56.320 I I think the President's message here is going to 0:22:56.400 --> 0:23:00.359 be a very interesting message in this following sense that people, 0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:05.119 uh won't predict what he's gonna say. He is by nature, 0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:08.520 he actually has a duality to his personality. He wants 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:10.960 to engage in the global system and he wants to 0:23:10.960 --> 0:23:13.879 be part of global growth and prosperity. Uh, that's not 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:16.400 really the media narrative. At the same time he's doing that, 0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:19.000 he wants to put American workers in middle class and 0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:21.080 lower middle class families first. And so, how do you 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:24.480 handle how do you handle the President United States? Or 0:23:24.600 --> 0:23:27.919 you or I'd say you're adversary, General Kelly or all 0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:31.000 the good people of the administration get a script written 0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:34.800 and he goes off script. Is that the biggest Trump 0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:38.359 risk of the speech? I actually think that is the 0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:43.640 benefit of him being president? And I I would say that, Uh. 0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:46.760 We we found in the campaign, I found in my 0:23:46.840 --> 0:23:50.200 life experience with him. Letting him be himself, UH is 0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:53.199 where you really see the true creative, disruptive nature of 0:23:53.240 --> 0:23:57.119 his personality. Reigning in mand trying to box him in 0:23:57.920 --> 0:24:02.000 UH hasn't worked. Won't war Uh, And we'll probably lead 0:24:02.040 --> 0:24:06.600 to uh people Uh either they'll adapt because he's not 0:24:06.600 --> 0:24:09.600 going to adapt to them. Either they'll adapt or he'll 0:24:09.600 --> 0:24:11.440 have to help. He'll have to get help from elsewhere. 0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:13.760 I can see you in the room with Mr Khan 0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:17.000