1 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keane Jaily. 2 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: We bring you insight from the best in economics, finance, investment, 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: and international relations. Find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, 4 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Com, and of course on the Bloomberg We 5 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: pretty get right to this interview. We have two incredibly 6 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: exceptional guests with us today and it is an honor 7 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 1: to have them here together, and we're gonna speak on 8 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: one theme. Lord Tyson needs no introduction to anyone within 9 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: our economic academics and particularly within public service. She is 10 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: a former UH Chairman of the President's Council of Economic 11 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: Advisors UH and is also teaching at the University of 12 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: California at Berkeley School. With this each and every year, 13 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: it seems at Davos. Maybe I think that's correct. Is 14 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: Kenneth Rogoff His book of last year, The Curse of Cash, 15 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: was my book of the year. I make a joke 16 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: that the next effort will be the Curse of Bitcoin. 17 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: But to have the two of you here with your academics, 18 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: I want to clear the air on the debate at 19 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: the end of two thousand seventeen, which is do tax 20 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: cuts drive economic growth? The center points of this was 21 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: Kevin Hasset, Professor Tyson, who has your job now at 22 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: the White House, UH chairman of the President's Council of 23 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: Economic Advisors, and the Lori Paul Krugman of Princeton. I'd say, 24 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: driving the dialogue with many others. Kens, as we saw 25 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: Ken out of Opsfield, Rogoff out of your other work 26 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: over the years, is there as certitude that tax cuts 27 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: can drive permanent economic growth? Well, okay, I mean lower 28 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: attacks rights. If you could somehow magically produce the government 29 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: spending in revenues you need from oil or something else, sure, 30 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: but you know, in the long run, UH, you have 31 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: to pay for government services. And by the way, in 32 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: this stage of inequality, it's just really hard to imagine 33 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: how government services and transfers aren't gonna rise over time. 34 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: It's I do think, you know, I I certainly see 35 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: the case that tax cuts do benefit, you know, have 36 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: a benefit compared to UH government, you know, some something 37 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: that raises taxes a little long run. But I have 38 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 1: enormous respect for Kevin Hassett, I think, but the figures 39 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: were very optimistic on what the growth would be Professor Tyson, 40 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 1: you're nodding your head. I think of Rick Michigan and Colombia, 41 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: and you is linking in core economics into Okay, we're 42 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: in the room in Washington, and now we have to 43 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: affect policy. How do you respond to the certitude that 44 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: Kevin Hassett has to deal with from Trump supporters and 45 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: from frankly direct White House officials representing the president. So 46 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 1: I would say, first of all, it's important to recognize 47 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: the role of the Council of Economic Advisors, which is 48 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: to give objective, unbiased advice. And I think one of 49 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: the criticisms of the of the work that was done 50 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: by the c e A UH is that really it 51 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: was a selective choice of evidence. It was the most 52 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: optimistic evidence. There's plenty of evidence that tax cuts will 53 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: generate growth. I think what was actually off scale there 54 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: was the magnitude, and particularly the magnitude for wages, because essentially, 55 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: I would say, look in the past, we already know 56 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: that productivity enhancements have not been turning into wages already. UH, 57 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: We've now given a major tax cut to businesses. I 58 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: supported that, I actually supported that, but I think we 59 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: there were ways to pay for it. We chose not 60 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: to do that. Other countries that have cut tax rates 61 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: for business to increase investment, have increased taxes on the 62 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: owners of capital, have increased value added taxes, have found 63 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: another revenue source, a carbon tax. Why why not say, okay, 64 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: growth from cutting some business taxes, we gotta pay for it, 65 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: otherwise it's going to defeat itself. One of the great 66 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: things about Davos is I can see Peter or zegg 67 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: in ten minutes later see Douglas Elmendorf, And they're the 68 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: ones that have worked at CBO over the years. Does 69 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: Laura Tyson having her head the percentage deficit to GDP 70 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: that is a trip point for the president or three 71 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 1: points something? And there's a great certitude at trillion dollars 72 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: here on going dirks and and you can a trillion dollars. 73 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: There is there a point where you worry? Is it five? 74 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,359 Speaker 1: Is it six? Is seven? Look? I I don't, I think, 75 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: and I think I should get ken here as well. 76 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: I think the general of you that I've thought about is, 77 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: you know, a projected deficits in the three to four 78 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: percent range right now. The global capital markets and the 79 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: way they're behaving and US investors and behaving that is 80 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 1: sustainable for the US. We're talking about a long term 81 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 1: we we have fundamentally now reduced the taxation share of 82 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: GDP to a level which just does not match the 83 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 1: long runs sustainable. That's classic, That's classic Tyson linkoln and 84 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: policy Ken. How do you respond to it? With all 85 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: of your research with Carmen Reiner? Do you worry that 86 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: we're going to trip the deficit to GDP? Are we 87 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: gonna be talking about twin deficits in a few years 88 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 1: here at Davos? Well? No, but I mean I think 89 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: the reality of the debt rhetoric in Washington is that whoever, 90 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: whichever party is uh out of power thinks that debt 91 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: and deficits are bad because the party in power spending 92 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 1: it on their priority, their friends, their base, and so 93 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: you go back and forth. I mean, maybe the Republicans 94 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: talk about it a little more, but if you look 95 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: around the world, a lot of the conversation about debt 96 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: is really, hey, wait a second, I might be in 97 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: power in four years and you're spending my money. If 98 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: you're doing the spending, I won't be able to do 99 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: as much. But no, I mean, I said the US 100 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: has enormous borrowing capacity. The dollar has become more powerful 101 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: than it was under Bretton Woods. But you are spending 102 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 1: future money. It is so hard. Obviously it's going to 103 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: be harder to raise spending at taxes. Remember that was 104 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan's rationalization for why he was doing the tax cuts. 105 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: I think that's the rationalization. You know, I was listening 106 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: to this issue of closing down government. One way you 107 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 1: can gradually close down government is just a denuded of revenues. 108 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: And so there was a significant part of this momentum 109 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: for tax cuts coming from the group of people who 110 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: want to significantly reduce the size of government. And if 111 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: the money is not there, you're gonna have to reduce 112 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: the size. So we've heard from people saying the next 113 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: step is entitlement reform. That is the next step is 114 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: going to be work requirements on everything to kind of 115 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: reduce the amount of spending, not to mention things like 116 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: spending on basic science or infrastructure. I'm waiting with bated 117 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: breath to see the infrastructure plan here. Absolutely you wonder 118 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: where it is, And yeah, I guess you could also 119 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: wonder why it hasn't shown yet. Ken one final question 120 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: if we could, and that is on what kind of 121 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: economy we should be studying. Paul Krugman has talked about 122 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: a wistfulness back to John Hicks in nine and people say, 123 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: wait a minute, that was a different world, a different 124 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: economy back than You can't use those models. Now, what's 125 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: the model that works for America within the unique America 126 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: that the president is going to talk about? Are we 127 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: a big, giant open economy? Are we more closed than 128 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: we think? We're not more close than we think. We 129 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: need to look to the future, and I, yes, we 130 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: have problems that were better in the past, but I 131 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: don't want to look to tired old solutions for dealing 132 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: with them. For example, I think we need better education, 133 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: But does that mean quadrupling the number of state collegists 134 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: like Bernie Sanders has or does it in you know, 135 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: digital education and finding new ways to reach broader audience 136 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: as adult education. Many examples like this. We can do 137 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: things differently and better, but that doesn't mean like this 138 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: is what Bloomberg surveillance is all about. Thank you so much. 139 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: This was done spur of the moment, folks, with Professor 140 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: Rogoff and with Professor Tyson and just wonderful to both 141 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: of you with your public service and academics with us today. 142 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: She is from the High School, University of California, Berkeley. 143 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: He is from Harvard University. Mr Frankel's a former governor 144 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: at the Bank of Israel. He works for a gentleman 145 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: named Jamie Diamond. Jacob was out on the roof saying, 146 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: get that helicopter away, Get that helicopter away. He is 147 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: the chairman of JP Morgan International and truly provides economic 148 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: person active to the clients of James Steamond and all 149 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: of JP Morgan. Of course Mr Frankel doing a little 150 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: bit of economic research a few years ago at Chicago. 151 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: So Dr Frankel, though, you don't put your power point away, 152 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 1: faying yesterday of China had his power point out and 153 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: it made worldwide headlines. But John Jacob Frankel is the 154 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: one guy who he's the one guy who doesn't need 155 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: a power point when he talks to Bloomberg Surveillance. What 156 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: I would suggest, UH, Professor Frankel is, here's the money 157 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: question of the day, and it comes from one of 158 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: our sophisticated UH listeners who is a currency manipulator. Now 159 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: that's a loaded question, isn't it. It is a very 160 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 1: loaded question, And the truth of the matter is, it's 161 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: extremely difficult to answer that question, even in theory. You know, 162 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: when you have a picture that he's hanged on the 163 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: wall and then it falls, who is the Who is 164 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: the fault, the world's fault, the pictures fault, the nails fault, 165 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,959 Speaker 1: the combinations thereof. Now all not, of course, not all 166 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: analogies are good enough to explain the complexity of this question. 167 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: Because the truth of the matter is, when monetary policy 168 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: is becoming very, very loose, naturally, the value of the 169 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: currency that is being printed and supplied is diminishing. That's 170 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: the reason why prices go up, and that's the reason 171 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: why the currency depreciates in the foreign exchange market. Now, 172 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: was this a currency manipulated? The normal answer is we 173 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: need to know what was the intent. If the intent 174 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: was to boost the economy, then people will say it 175 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: is not a currency manipulator. If the intent was to 176 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: depreciate the currency, then it is. It is only an 177 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: example why it is complex the question. The point of 178 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: the matter is, I really think we should achieve the 179 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: discussion from nominal exchange rate as as is being now 180 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: discussed into real exchange rate. Namely, what are the factors 181 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: the determined the international competitiveness of a country, not of 182 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: a currency of a country, a country that is highly productive. 183 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: President Trump taking away our international competitiveness. President Trump has 184 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: not yet started doing what the what the president is 185 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: put terms and you know little things like that, I 186 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: know you don't. I don't. I can tell you I 187 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: am in general against anything that may look like a trade. 188 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: Mr Diamond said there as well. Yes, but I want 189 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: to say that I rather have a discussion rather than 190 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: shooting the guns. I want to tell you that I think, 191 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: for example, that the US threats of living after makes 192 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: no sense to me. I think that that the fact 193 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: that the US did not sign at T T P A, 194 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:05,479 Speaker 1: etcetera is not good. The fact that both candidates for presidency, 195 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton and Trump were so protectionist in their rectoring 196 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: is not good because it basically gives a message also 197 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: to the American people that somebody is there to deprive us. 198 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: We are not. We need to compete and we need 199 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: to improve. If you're just joining us for FoST Jacob Franco, 200 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 1: whether US from JP, Morgan Chase, we welcome all of 201 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: you worldwide to our studios in New York with John 202 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 1: Farrell and Tim Keene of the World Economic Form meetings 203 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: and Daphos. Dr Frankel has been incredibly generous with this time. Today, 204 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: I'm looking at the Bloomberg terminal and whether it's a 205 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: fancy guy like me or our most basic listener currencies 206 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,479 Speaker 1: around the move, How does a pro like you define 207 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 1: sean country chees brutal moves? What does that really mean? 208 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:50,839 Speaker 1: And are we in the middle of a brutal move 209 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: right now? If the brutal move means a large move, 210 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: then you it's in the eyes of the bill the 211 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: what is very large, very large, very very very brutal, etcetera. Again, 212 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: I think that what we should do is create a situation. Well, 213 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: sharp moves of the currency do not have sharp effect. Namely, 214 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: developed the mechanisms to protect investors from shout moves, developed 215 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: the futures markets, developed the forwards market, developed the hedging approaches. 216 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,319 Speaker 1: And not everyone needs to be speculated in the phone 217 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: exchange market. It's too complex. Within that is the corporate response. 218 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: You know, we all learn the J curve out of 219 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: David Beggs classic textbook or during Bush Fisher Stars and 220 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: the other basic textbook. Does the old style currency trade 221 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: dynamics still work or we do another regime where Maurice 222 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: Hobs fell and Ken Rogo got to go write a 223 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: whole new book. Is it a new world? Well, the 224 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 1: world has evolving, and do you know what, in many 225 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: many areas, new chapters are being written. My only advice 226 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: as an old time is to say, don't throw the 227 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: old textbooks away. They have a lot of wisdom to 228 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: teach us. Yes, do learn from the most recent experience 229 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: by adding chapters, but not displays the old textbooks. So 230 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: I believe that we have a cumulative experience that comes 231 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: from many, many years, very few countries who were able 232 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: to gain competitiveness through currency manipulation. And I want to 233 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: make very clear her folks that that I call him 234 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: Professor Frankel still from his iconic research of years ago. 235 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: He's in a delicate position. He's with JP Morgan Chase International. 236 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: Obviously he's vising Mr Diamond. He can't talk about that. 237 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: That's what you do at banks. And at the same time, 238 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: as a former governor of a major central bank, he 239 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: really doesn't want to talk central bankers. So let's do 240 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: that right now, Mr Drug, Mr Corota, the current governor 241 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: of the Bank of Israel. They have to respond to 242 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: that minution headline. I mean, I remember responding seeing people 243 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: respond to Brazil's currency univentions of years ago. How do 244 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: the players like you respond to a Secretary of Treasury 245 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: suggesting a weak dollar policy? As I say, I did 246 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: not here, I did not hear what the secretary actually said. 247 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: What I can say is something in principle, you do 248 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: not gain sustainable long term competitiveness by just weakening your currency. 249 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: It will be eroding, eroded very quickly. On the contrary, 250 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: it can be counterproductive because it will deflect the attention 251 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: from the deeper issues of how to improve long term 252 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: competitive work. This is what Davos is all about, folks. 253 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: And Frankly Bloomberg surveillance. The honor of being here with 254 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: Jacob Frankel and earlier Ken Rogoff really speaks to my 255 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: team and what they do to drag these people away. 256 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: As uh Mr Frankel was with his colleague Mr Diamond, 257 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: this is a wonderful visit. And and folks, this is 258 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: about healthcare. It's about the profitability of healthcare, and it's 259 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: such a large part of all of our lives. I 260 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: just really can't say enough about it. Joining us now 261 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: is a gentleman of great extinction. He uh says, we 262 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: may live to a hundred and twenty and he is 263 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: cutt and chiseled at the august age of sixty nine 264 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: years old and holding is well, how do you do it? 265 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: You walk in here, Michael Neidorf, And you know, is 266 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: that the air in St. Louis is? Is there something 267 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: about the Midwest and you're working healthcare that makes you 268 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: look the the the youth that you talk about when 269 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: you're on panels here. I think it's the travel and 270 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: talking to people like you, Okay, you know what I mean, 271 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: people that are young and aggressive. Yeah, I mean, I 272 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: mean we'll talk about St. Louis here in a bit, 273 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: but I have to talk about a stock that is 274 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 1: and there's the highest accolade, Dana her like. You just 275 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,199 Speaker 1: continue to make money in the last ten years. Your 276 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 1: stock is going up per year, and yet you're in 277 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: a business that I'm told doesn't make any money. Healthcare 278 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: is terrible. Nobody makes money. How do you make revenues 279 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: and profits that generates that stock performance in an industry 280 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: that never makes money. How do you do that? We've 281 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 1: maintained that the highest quality of care is at least expensive. 282 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 1: We work hard. We have great medical management systems that 283 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 1: help to ensure that the doctors have the information, and 284 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:39,479 Speaker 1: most importantly, we have systems that are becoming predictive and 285 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: allow you to be interdictive, so that if you if 286 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: you know somebody's potas team is going up, you know 287 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: he's a whisk for a heart attack, you can get 288 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: ahead of the curve. So it's really all about determining 289 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:54,199 Speaker 1: that somebody has a condition before it becomes a major problem. 290 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 1: We just had in the president of the leader of 291 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: New York University's wonderful hospital in New York. I'm gonna 292 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: ask the same question I asked that physician. How do 293 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: you do the revolution we're all having in healthcare and 294 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: keep the doctors and nurses happy. I believe they're the 295 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: providers of it, aren't they? Yes, well, I am view. 296 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: We have always viewed doctors as our product, not a partner, 297 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: but our product. And you, if you're smart about it, 298 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: you take very good care of your How do you 299 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,959 Speaker 1: do that to incentivise them with salary? Is it tickets 300 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: to the St. Louis Blues. I mean, what do you do? 301 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 1: You know what we do is we give them information 302 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: that allows them to be more effective and more productive. 303 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: We pay them fairly, not excessively, not under paying, but 304 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: we can try to pay them fairly, and we try 305 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: to provide information that just generally helps him understand what 306 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: we're all trying to achieve together. Where do we stand 307 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: in this nation with healthcare? Your knee deep in it? 308 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: You have decades of experience away from the media hot 309 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: air of the Affordable Care Act and the eight tangents 310 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: off of it. Are you happy with where we're going? Well, 311 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: I'm I'm hopeful. I think the the Affordable Care Active 312 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: Voice we've done very well with with the largest provider, 313 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 1: and we goose significly in January with the And it's 314 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 1: just about putting units through the door. I mean, the 315 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: the Affordable Care Act gives more people more coverage, which 316 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: puts more units through the door. And we need that. 317 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: We I mean, it's a it is an entitled when 318 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 1: this country healthcare, So we work on that and that's 319 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: that's very important. But I am I am optimistic that 320 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: systems and the approach over time, ring the cost under control. 321 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: I want to uh completely switched gears on you to 322 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: your exceptional leadership to the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra. How 323 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: do we maintain classical music in this nation? I asked 324 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: Gary Park, with all of his relationship with the New 325 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: York Philharmonic, the same thing. How do we maintain orchestras 326 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 1: for kids on YouTube? How do we let them know 327 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: who Mendelssohn is, Tchaikovsky is? How do we let them 328 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: know the more modern classical music? What's the path to 329 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: the future. I think you have to do several things. One, 330 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 1: you have to do things to encourage him to come 331 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: into the hall and hear music. You started with youth orchestras, 332 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 1: but you also have members of the orchestra go out 333 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: into the community in small groups. And what the appetite 334 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: of youth we uh My wife started a program, she's 335 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: on the executive game now and she started a program 336 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 1: Experienced the Music and other programs that get children engaged 337 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: at a very young age with what music is all 338 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: about and leaves it to life. Do we need a 339 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: Leonard Burnstind that gave us that magic that all I 340 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: do and we we had Leonards acculate in St. Louis. 341 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: That did a lot of that, and it takes that 342 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: kind of conduct, takes that kind of says Zaha in 343 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: Boston or whatever. Then David Robertson, who's just stepping down 344 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: the next year, that they have that magic. Very good. 345 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,400 Speaker 1: This has been wonderful, my cold, Thank you so much. 346 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: She's a senting, of course, a science uh in healthcare 347 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: and of course out of St. Louis. I'm Tim Keenan Dabos. 348 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: And now what does an annual visit? Was? Somebody who 349 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: I think has had three or four occupations or jobs 350 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: in each of his annual visits. Anthony Scaramucci used to 351 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 1: play for the New York Mets, and he joins now 352 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: on a most interesting and historic day for the Trump administration. 353 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: Of course, Mr Scaramucci was a former communications director for 354 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: the President. I believe he was in the media last 355 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: year a little bit. But here comes the President, of course, 356 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: Secretary Monution today driving dollar weeker with a week dollar policy. 357 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: We'll get to all that. Let's clear up things first. 358 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 1: I have heard a little bit of percolation that you 359 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: may rejoin the administration. Is there any truth to that? 360 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: There's no truth to that that that I'm aware of. 361 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: I mean, i've I've I've heard that as well. You 362 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: mentioned the number of jobs that I had. You should 363 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: also mention the fact that I don't have any w 364 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 1: two so many of those jobs thom because I did 365 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: all those jobs without making any money. That's pretty cool. Okay, amen, right, 366 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: I guess that's good news from my my account. Within 367 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: this is the idea of advising the president. Have you 368 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: spoken to him or his small entourage coming to Davos 369 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 1: to give them best Davos practices because you and Mr 370 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 1: Kohona I was suggested the two with the most experience. Yeah, listen, 371 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 1: I I obviously have a very close personal relationship with 372 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: Secretary Manuchin. We worked closely together on the campaign, know 373 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: each other a long time. Gary and I know each 374 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: other from Goldman. But they didn't need any advice or 375 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,880 Speaker 1: from me. I mean, obviously they're gonna do great things here. 376 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: I saw Governor Perry or now Secretary Perry this morning. 377 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: I I think the President's message here is going to 378 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 1: be a very interesting message in this following sense that people, 379 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 1: uh won't predict what he's gonna say. He is by nature, 380 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: he actually has a duality to his personality. He wants 381 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: to engage in the global system and he wants to 382 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 1: be part of global growth and prosperity. Uh, that's not 383 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 1: really the media narrative. At the same time he's doing that, 384 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: he wants to put American workers in middle class and 385 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: lower middle class families first. And so, how do you 386 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: handle how do you handle the President United States? Or 387 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 1: you or I'd say you're adversary, General Kelly or all 388 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: the good people of the administration get a script written 389 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: and he goes off script. Is that the biggest Trump 390 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: risk of the speech? I actually think that is the 391 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:43,640 Speaker 1: benefit of him being president? And I I would say that, Uh. 392 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: We we found in the campaign, I found in my 393 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: life experience with him. Letting him be himself, UH is 394 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,199 Speaker 1: where you really see the true creative, disruptive nature of 395 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 1: his personality. Reigning in mand trying to box him in 396 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: UH hasn't worked. Won't war Uh, And we'll probably lead 397 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: to uh people Uh either they'll adapt because he's not 398 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: going to adapt to them. Either they'll adapt or he'll 399 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: have to help. He'll have to get help from elsewhere. 400 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: I can see you in the room with Mr Khan 401 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: and a few other selected worthy saying, Okay, there's two audiences, 402 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: Mr President, what do we want to say to the 403 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: global audience, the doubles elite? How does he speak to 404 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,959 Speaker 1: the people in a happy valley? Well, listen, I I 405 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: think it's a I think it's the same message. The 406 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 1: messages is that helping out? So he has the same 407 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 1: message to the global elite. Did he does to his 408 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: court constituency. I think so, because explain that. Okay, So 409 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: I'm gonna explain it, because if you're here with the globally, 410 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: you say, listen, my goal is to help middle class 411 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 1: and lower middle class families in the United States with 412 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,199 Speaker 1: my policies that will lead to more disposable income and 413 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: more opportunity. If Saudia, if IF China, as an example, 414 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 1: is the Saudi Arabia manufacturing in many ways over the 415 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: last seventy years since the Second World War. The United 416 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: States is a Saudi Arabia. Consumerism, more aggregate demand for 417 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: people in the United States will lead to more global growth, 418 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: more global opportunity, and more global prosperity. And so I 419 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: actually do think it's an identical message, and I don't 420 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: think that's a threatening message. To quote unquote globalists if anything. Um, 421 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: he's leading the charge here with the largest delegation uh 422 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: that the US government has put together. Well, he's got 423 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: he's got ten members of the Cabinet and members of 424 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: the White House here in addition to himself, I mean 425 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: meaning ten senior members in addition to all their understaff. 426 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 1: And so I do know it's the largest general delegation 427 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: that we've had in history as it relates to an 428 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: American delegation here in Davos. So so to me, again, 429 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: that's refreshing, that's unpredictable. Uh. You and I did a 430 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: show here a year ago, A lot of people here 431 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: would have said, okay, uh, you know, no chance that 432 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: the president will President Trump will be here in Davos 433 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: anytime soon. His last two preda sessors did not come 434 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: to Davos. Uh. And so I think the first opportunity 435 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 1: that he had to be here to make a statement, 436 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 1: give a speech, uh, shows you who he really is 437 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: and the character and the quality that he has as 438 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: a person. And Neil Ferguson has the best say FC 439 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: and so far in the Washington Post writing about this, 440 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 1: and he gives a president great credit, and he gets 441 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,479 Speaker 1: it right up top is well where he says the 442 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 1: president exemplifies the ugly American. Davos will accept him anyways, 443 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: Why will they agree with the president's issues. Is it 444 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: just about less regulation and more growth or is there 445 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: something more subtle than that. Well, listen, I mean I 446 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 1: probably is a close front of mine. I probably don't 447 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: agree with the whole ugly American comment. I would just say, wait, 448 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,880 Speaker 1: I'm the ugly American. Be careful what you said. You're 449 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: you're an ugly American. I mean, you're a tall, ugly American. Okay, 450 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: your listeners can't see how all you are. My dad, 451 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: I need four phone books to stay here. Uh here here, 452 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: Here's what I would say. Uh. If there is subtlety, 453 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: the subtlety is that we're going to cooperate in the 454 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: global community. The subtlety is we're going to engage in 455 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: the global system and the world's uh organizations, the broader 456 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: world's organizations like the u N World Economic Form, et cetera, 457 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: to help maintain, stabilize and increased global peace and prosperity. 458 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: But we're not going to leave working class families and 459 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: other people behind, which, unfortunately, when you analyze globalism that 460 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 1: has happened. I want to ask one last question, and 461 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 1: you're not gonna like it, but you've done so much 462 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 1: for charity on Wall Street, I'm gonna bring it up. 463 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: There is a Davos stunned field today about the cover 464 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 1: article in the Financial Times Madison marriage over a charity 465 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: dinner at the Dorchester in London that wasn't very nice. 466 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,959 Speaker 1: It was about charity guys and all that with hired 467 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: hostesses and that, you know, the uproar in the United 468 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: States over vice and Emily Changing of Bloomberg has this 469 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: important new book coming out on social You've always been 470 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: known for running class stuff. Is this stuff over? Is 471 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: the is the sleaziness of some of these charity events? 472 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: Is it just over? With this FT article today? Well, listen, 473 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,199 Speaker 1: unfortunately appreciate you saying that because I really try to, 474 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 1: I really try to do this stuff straight up and 475 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: and and honest and with high integrity. I think so 476 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: because I think I think it's over. I think I 477 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: think it's over because I think what's happened now is 478 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: the world of social media has put a magnifying glass 479 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: on everybody, and I think that some of the seediness, 480 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: Uh it's going to be exposing that magnifying glass and 481 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: and raid out like the way we used to do 482 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: with ants when we were kids. Anthony Skerm, which you, 483 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: thank you so much to your update here. He'll be 484 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: a little occupied over the next forty eight hours. Thanks 485 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: for listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Subscribe and listen 486 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: to interviews on Apple, pot Cast, SoundCloud, or whichever podcast 487 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: platform you prefer. I'm on Twitter at Tom Keane before 488 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio.