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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of this show.

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Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, everybody, Happy Monday, and welcome to Breaking Points.

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Speaker 3: Good to see Emily.

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Speaker 2: I'm back.

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Speaker 4: I'm so sorry to the haters.

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Speaker 2: Three three Lady shows in a row. If the audience

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Speaker 2: can handle it.

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Speaker 5: We did say that Ryan is going to have to

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Speaker 5: compensate with extra masculinity this week.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's mentally preparing for that. Tomorrow we have

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Speaker 2: Should I reveal the special Small Liberty guestos Absolutely so,

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Speaker 2: Tim Miller of the Bulwark, so we can talk about,

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Speaker 2: you know, his evolution, which I'm curious to hear him

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Speaker 2: talk about and get his, of course opinion on news

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Speaker 2: of the day, and he and me have some disagreements

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Speaker 2: about where the Democratic Party should head from here, so

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Speaker 2: it should be fun.

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Speaker 3: I'm looking forward to it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, because he's really a convert. He's not just another

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Speaker 5: Trump Republican. He's actually like had an ideological transition really

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Speaker 5: to the left, at least the center left and not

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Speaker 5: the left left.

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Speaker 4: So he's a fascinating story. This was really exciting. He's

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Speaker 4: also fun, and he's I don't know, a great sense

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Speaker 4: of humor.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I don't know him at all.

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Speaker 2: So I'm looking forward to, you know, having a dialogue

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Speaker 2: with him and see where that goes.

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Speaker 4: Dialogue.

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Speaker 5: Okay, tune in tomorrow for dialogue.

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Speaker 3: I love everybody.

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Speaker 2: Why we put in the headline Crystal dialogues with Tim Miller.

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Speaker 2: That'll be a hot hot take care of that one.

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Speaker 4: I would still click, I would still click.

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Speaker 2: Thanks em, appreciate that you and my mom, thank you. Okay,

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Speaker 2: there is a lot of breaking news this morning we have.

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Speaker 2: I don't think he can call it a China deal,

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Speaker 2: but a major step back from the terror regime. Some

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Speaker 2: may call it complete capitulation, but we get we talk

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Speaker 2: through the details of what.

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Speaker 3: We know after those meetings.

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Speaker 2: We've got big news coming out of the Middle East

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Speaker 2: as President Trump has the region this week. Confirmation that

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Speaker 2: we are now indirect talks with Hamas and a US

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Speaker 2: American citizen hostage is going to be released as sort

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Speaker 2: of like a you know, attempt by Hamas sign of

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Speaker 2: good faith, something of that nature. So Jeremy Scale is

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Speaker 2: going to join us to break down.

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Speaker 3: All of that. He has some new reporting, so always

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Speaker 3: great to talk to him.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, No, I mean, he has fresh reporting, so we're

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Speaker 5: going to get updates straight from Jeremy in just a bit,

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Speaker 5: so make sure stay tuned for that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We also have Steven Miller floating the suspension of Habeas Corpus,

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Speaker 2: so that seems pretty significant. We have President Trump out

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Speaker 2: with a big truth social about prescription drug prices.

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Speaker 3: This is big. This is big. We'll see what happens.

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Speaker 2: Maybe, I mean he did, we can talk about it.

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Speaker 2: He did the same thing basically in the first term.

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Speaker 3: It's just an executive order locked in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, so it may not be something you can

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Speaker 2: do by executive order.

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Speaker 4: It likely is not.

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Speaker 5: Although I think Roe Khana has legislation on that front.

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Speaker 5: So there might be some I think they could do

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Speaker 5: through Congress if Trump has the will and if Congressional

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Speaker 5: Republicans want to get on board, and that is a big.

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Speaker 2: Giant if there. In addition, we have a new Kanye

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Speaker 2: West song. I regretted inform you it is everything you

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Speaker 2: would expect it to be at this point in his.

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Speaker 3: Life and career.

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Speaker 2: And I recorded yesterday an interview with the mayor of Newark.

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Speaker 2: He is the one who was arrested outside of that

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Speaker 2: ice facility, charged with trespassing.

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Speaker 3: He of course denies the charges.

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Speaker 2: Trump administration is now threatening the three Democratic members of

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Speaker 2: Congress who were there at that ice facility as well,

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Speaker 2: with threatening them with arrest and claiming that they assaulted

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Speaker 2: ICE agents who were there, Federal agents who were there.

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Speaker 2: So in any case, I asked him all the questions

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Speaker 2: about that, his timeline, what his experience of what went

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Speaker 2: down there was as well, and we had some video

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Speaker 2: too that we.

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Speaker 3: Could take a look at.

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Speaker 2: And then after the show for our previous subscribers, Emily

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Speaker 2: and I are going to be doing that AMA live,

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Speaker 2: So if you want to participate in that Breakingpoints dot Com,

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Speaker 2: thank you so much to everybody who has been signing

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Speaker 2: up and supporting the show, making that Friday show happen,

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Speaker 2: which I personally really enjoy doing so it's really fun

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Speaker 2: so much.

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Speaker 5: Also, you and Kyle last week just taking the second half, and.

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Speaker 4: It was like cathartic, I think for everyone, was it? Yeah,

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Speaker 4: you know, it's fun.

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Speaker 2: Like the opinions are divided on that, but yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: I enjoyed it. I'll enjoyed it, of course.

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Speaker 3: I mean it would be bad if you did it

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Speaker 3: was worse.

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Speaker 2: That would be a bad side. So in any case,

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Speaker 2: thank you for supporting us and making that happen. And

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Speaker 2: thank you guys also to those of you who are

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Speaker 2: just liking, sharing, subscribing, all of that really makes a

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Speaker 2: big difference as well. So with that, let's go ahead

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Speaker 2: and get into what we know about these China talks.

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Speaker 2: All right, guys, we have some huge news with regard

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Speaker 2: to the Trump Administration's trade war visa the China, in particular,

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Speaker 2: where negotiators met over the weekend. In particular, the specifics

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Speaker 2: as we know them are there's going to be a

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Speaker 2: ninety day pause on the full hundred and forty five

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Speaker 2: percent tariffs that have been levied against China. China is

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Speaker 2: going to drop their teriff right for US down to

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Speaker 2: ten percent. We are going to drop our tariff rate

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Speaker 2: on China down to thirty percent. Truman administration officials, we're

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Speaker 2: out making the case for this temporary pause and deal.

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Speaker 3: Let's go ahead and take a listen to that, Joe.

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Speaker 6: This is going to go where the President wants it

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Speaker 6: to go. I was in touch with him over the weekend,

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Speaker 6: and he wants free trade, free and fair trade. We've

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Speaker 6: had free trade and as you said, that has not

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Speaker 6: worked for the American people. There's something called the China

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Speaker 6: shock which has gutted our manufacturing sector. And China has

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Speaker 6: a different form of government for us. They have a

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Speaker 6: different economic model where they subsidize labor, they subsidize capital goods,

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Speaker 6: and they have exported that to US and the rest

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Speaker 6: of the world. We have put up tariffs to push

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Speaker 6: back on that. So it will be a matter of

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Speaker 6: what is the equilibrium level on tariffs and also getting

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Speaker 6: China to open their markets for American companies because China

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Speaker 6: actually has a low terraf regime, but it is the

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Speaker 6: non tear of trade barriers that can be the most

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Speaker 6: difficult to overcome. So we will be focusing on the

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Speaker 6: non terar of trade barriers and the subsidies, and the

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Speaker 6: idea the China can become more open to American business

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Speaker 6: and the things that are sold into the US can

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Speaker 6: not have the same level of subsidy. And no one

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Speaker 6: wants to do a generalized decoupling, but we are going

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Speaker 6: to do a strategic decoupling because we realized during COVID

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Speaker 6: that efficient supply chains were not secure supply chains. So

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Speaker 6: with steel, with semiconductors, with medicines, with a couple of

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Speaker 6: other strategic categories, we are going to have to become

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Speaker 6: self reliant again.

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Speaker 2: So Emily he's calling this a strategic decoupling. We's gone

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Speaker 2: put New York Times up on the screen. We've got

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Speaker 2: a great chart here showing the levels. First you had

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Speaker 2: ten percent, then you had twenty percent, then you had

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Speaker 2: fifty four percent, then you had one hundred four percent,

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Speaker 2: Then you have one hundred and forty five percent. I'm

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Speaker 2: just going to read a little bit of this article

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Speaker 2: as well, so you can hear the specifics as we

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Speaker 2: know them.

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Speaker 3: At this point.

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Speaker 2: The US and China said Monday they reach an agreement

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Speaker 2: to temporarily reduce the punishing terrorists they've imposed on each

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Speaker 2: other while they try to defuse the trade war threatening

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Speaker 2: the world's two largest economies. In a joint statement, the

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Speaker 2: country said they would suspend their respective terifts for ninety

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Speaker 2: days and continue negotiations they started this weekend. Under the agreement,

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Speaker 2: the US would reduce the tariff on Chinese imports to

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Speaker 2: thirty percent from its current one hundred and forty five percent. Well,

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Speaker 2: China would lower its import duty on American goods to

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Speaker 2: ten percent from one hundred and twenty five percent. We

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Speaker 2: concluded that we have a shared interest, said Treasury Secretary

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Speaker 2: Scott Besson at a news conference in Geneva. The consensus

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Speaker 2: from both delegations is that neither side wanted a de coupling,

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Speaker 2: he said, So this is really being interpreted as I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think you have to call it effectively a capitulation

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Speaker 2: on the part of the Trump administration. And some of

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Speaker 2: the numbers Emily that came in that I think have

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Speaker 2: to impact them is number one concern over the bond market,

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Speaker 2: concern over the stock market and how dowur things were

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Speaker 2: looking there. But in addition, China seemed much more able

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Speaker 2: to withstand this extraordinary trade war than perhaps the Trump

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Speaker 2: administration anticipated. We covered mentioned last week, numbers just came

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Speaker 2: in that actually showed Chinese exports rising even as these

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Speaker 2: punishing tariffs had been levied against them, so that indicated

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Speaker 2: that they were kind of in it for the long haul.

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Speaker 2: They took some initial retality to reactions, including you know,

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Speaker 2: what are the things they instituted export controls on these

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Speaker 2: rare earth minerals that are really critical. I'm seeing some

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Speaker 2: indications on Twitter, but I don't have it confirmed yet

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Speaker 2: that those are actually going to stay in place. But

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Speaker 2: they get to a certain point where they said, basically,

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Speaker 2: we're not going to do anything else, and you're going

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Speaker 2: to have to come to us when you're ready, when

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Speaker 2: you're ready to act responsibly here. And I think the

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Speaker 2: Trump administration really between the stock market, the bond market,

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Speaker 2: and also the Chinese government's ability to withstand these tariffs

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Speaker 2: better than they had previously expected, that they needed to

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Speaker 2: act or there was going to be an imminent economic

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Speaker 2: catastrophe complete with shortages, empty shelves, you know, inflation. And

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Speaker 2: it's also not clear that all of that will be

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Speaker 2: forestalled because thirty percent terrace is still a very high number.

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Speaker 5: I was going to say, yeah, I think whether this

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Speaker 5: is the capitulation is going to play out of the

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Speaker 5: course of the next ninety days, because this is a

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Speaker 5: ninety day pause, and if you are a small business owner,

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Speaker 5: that's still really terrifying.

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Speaker 4: That's still a lot of uncertainty.

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Speaker 5: I'm perfectly prepared and eager to be pleasantly surprised by this.

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Speaker 5: I think the idea of a strategic decoupling is directionally

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Speaker 5: exactly accurate the confusion and chaos that rained for a

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Speaker 5: couple of weeks after Liberation Day. If it goes down

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Speaker 5: in the ANNAWSI of history as being a month of

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Speaker 5: of chaos and confusion that led to a quote unquote

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Speaker 5: strategic decoupling, it's interesting to see Best saying, on the

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Speaker 5: one hand, we realize we have multiple multiple interests that align,

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Speaker 5: and that at the same time, nobody wants to do

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Speaker 5: a general decoupling, so we're doing a strategic decoupling.

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Speaker 4: It's really interesting.

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Speaker 5: And his number here is that both sides de escalated

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Speaker 5: by quote one hundred and fifteen percent.

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Speaker 4: That's more from his interview on Morning Joe.

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Speaker 5: Very interesting. By the way they sent Scott Besson onto

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Speaker 5: Morning Joe. The day after this announcement is made, he

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Speaker 5: was on Bloomberg as well, I think, But for him

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Speaker 5: to go on Mourning Joe is actually pretty interesting to

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Speaker 5: make a big trade announcement.

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Speaker 3: Yeah true.

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Speaker 4: I mean, we'll put that aside for now.

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Speaker 5: So what this actually accomplishes, I just think is still

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Speaker 5: completely out in the open. For the next ninety days,

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Speaker 5: I hope is good. But ninety days from now.

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Speaker 4: We could be we could be back where we work tomorrow.

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Speaker 5: Let's say the ninety day pause becomes an eighty nine

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Speaker 5: or a one day pause.

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Speaker 4: You know, like we actually still don't really know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah so you so, yes, you still have a high

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Speaker 2: level of uncertainty that hangs over this whole trade war.

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Speaker 2: Charles Gasparino, who's the Fox Business senior correspondent and who's

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Speaker 2: been the beneficiary of a lot of leaks from the

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Speaker 2: Trump administration, so he's been really important to read. He says,

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Speaker 2: breaking Trump Ray's tariffs on the world, the market's, particularly

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Speaker 2: the bond market, which we need to finance our debt.

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Speaker 2: Rebelled Trump then was forced to back off end of

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Speaker 2: story film at eleven of the present, spinning this is

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Speaker 2: a major victory Okay, sorry, I couldn't help myself. But

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Speaker 2: what we've seen is a little lesson on how markets

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Speaker 2: exert their power when you have to depend on them,

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Speaker 2: as we still do. And remember it's really the budget

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Speaker 2: deficit that's causing the trade deficit, and we need the

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Speaker 2: budget deficit to maintain our standard of living. You can't

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Speaker 2: go to trade war with the world without bad stuff happening.

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Speaker 2: So this is someone who's been you know, very sympathetic,

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Speaker 2: I would say to the Trump administration. He's on Fox Business,

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Speaker 2: so he has those ideological inclinations, saying basically Trump folded night.

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Speaker 3: I think you have to look at it. Definitely a

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Speaker 3: free trader for sure. Yeah, true.

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Speaker 2: I think you have to, though, look at it in

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Speaker 2: that light, just given the fact that there really was

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Speaker 2: not much here in terms of quote unquote face saving gestures,

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Speaker 2: even from the Chinese government. You know, there was some

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Speaker 2: discussion of fentanyl and you know, some talks about how

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Speaker 2: they may do more to curb the you know, production

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Speaker 2: export of the ingredients that go into making fentanyl. So

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Speaker 2: there was some discussion around that. That's really about it.

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Speaker 2: So the Chinese government's calculation that they could basically do

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Speaker 2: nothing and that the Trump administration would have to fold

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Speaker 2: and come to them to back off of This ends

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Speaker 2: up pretty much being correct. Now again, that doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: that I think the most dire possible circumstances of a

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Speaker 2: complete economic collapse, I think that will likely be forestalled

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Speaker 2: by this announcement and scaling back, because when you are

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Speaker 2: talking about one forty five percent, you are talking about

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Speaker 2: a complete cutoff. And you all know how many things

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Speaker 2: that we need in this country that you have in

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Speaker 2: your own households that are made in China. So that

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Speaker 2: is forestalled called you know, so the very worst of

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Speaker 2: a potential economic calamity at least gets pushed off for

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Speaker 2: the moment. But we also shouldn't underestimate that thirty percent.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you think of like if they directly

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Speaker 2: hiked your taxes thirty percent or even ten percent, that

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Speaker 2: is really significant. So if we had started Liberation Day,

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Speaker 2: if we'd well, I think what was the initial tariff

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Speaker 2: that was announced on Liberation Day Visa v.

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Speaker 4: China.

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Speaker 3: It very quickly escalated.

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Speaker 2: But if we had started from a position of thirty

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Speaker 2: percent across the board tariffs on China, that was more

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Speaker 2: than what Trump ever floated during his campaign. So it's

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Speaker 2: still quite a high and very significant number. And I

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Speaker 2: think you still have to worry about the inflationary impacts

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Speaker 2: both of this thirty percent tariff on China and the

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Speaker 2: ten percent tariffs that you know are sort of across

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Speaker 2: the board. Howard Lutnik was out saying effectively that he

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Speaker 2: thinks ten percent may just be the going rate tariff

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Speaker 2: rate going forward. You know that alone could have significant

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Speaker 2: inflation effects. But there's no doubt some of the most

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Speaker 2: potential catastrophic fallout here should be forestalled by walking away,

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Speaker 2: by deciding by effectively blinking visa via this trade war

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Speaker 2: with China. One last thing, Emily, before I get your

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Speaker 2: reaction too, is I think it's also an indictment of

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Speaker 2: the strategy that they deployed, of pissing off everyone in

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Speaker 2: the world going into this. You know, if this really

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Speaker 2: is about China, then you would want to have Japan

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Speaker 2: on your side. You want to want to make sure

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Speaker 2: Europe's on your side, you want to make sure Canada

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Speaker 2: is on your side. You know, you would want to

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Speaker 2: gather your allies and have some sort of unified front. Instead,

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Speaker 2: those allies were increasingly uniting against you and with very

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Speaker 2: few exceptions, actually sort of holding the line together in

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Speaker 2: a relatively unified front that also made the position fundamentally

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Speaker 2: unsustainable from the American perspective.

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Speaker 5: I want to say also, I mean, there will be

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Speaker 5: a lot of people coming out afterwards if if let's

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Speaker 5: say ninety from now, this is fine. Things have stabilized,

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Speaker 5: and you know, maybe if you're a free trader, you're

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Speaker 5: still upset with us, but things are stabilized and they

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Speaker 5: aren't the you know, chaos that people felt on April

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Speaker 5: second Liberation Day. There will be a lot of people saying,

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Speaker 5: you know, you were Trump was right all along, the

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Speaker 5: haters were wrong once again. But I think also in

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Speaker 5: this case it's very clear that the haters put up guardrails,

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Speaker 5: not I think the good faith haters, let's say on

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Speaker 5: the right at least probably convinced people like Bessn't and

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Speaker 5: Trump himself to take another look at the execution of

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Speaker 5: these policies. Now, the ten percent tariff was, before it

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Speaker 5: was actually implemented, seen as insane and extreme, and now

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Speaker 5: because the reciprocal tariffs across the board were even like crazier,

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Speaker 5: Trump is like successfully at the very least like numbed

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Speaker 5: people to the idea of a ten percent.

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Speaker 3: Across the board.

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Speaker 5: The Liberation Day announcement was a thirty four percent tariff

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Speaker 5: on China, so reciprocal tariff on China. So to Crystal,

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Speaker 5: that gets your point about pitulation. He's coming down pretty

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Speaker 5: damn close to that level.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 5: The Dow has surged more than a thousand points as

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Speaker 5: of when we're taping this, so big market jump. I

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Speaker 5: think CNBC and some covers this morning used the word explosion.

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Speaker 5: The markets are exploding. So we'll see to what extent

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Speaker 5: the Trump administration touts that. I will still say, you know,

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Speaker 5: this is Joe Wisenthal SMP five hundred only done one

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Speaker 5: point two five percent this year. I'm sure some people

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Speaker 5: in the Trump administration actually will tout that. But the

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Speaker 5: point that they made actually remains when the market was plunging,

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Speaker 5: that that doesn't that has limited impacts on the working

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Speaker 5: class compared to the wealthy, and so they still have

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Speaker 5: a long way to go to dig themselves. I shouldn't

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Speaker 5: say dig themselves out of the hole, but to prove

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Speaker 5: that the strategy is more stabilizing than chaotic, because these

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Speaker 5: ninety day pauses. If I'm a small business owner, these

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Speaker 5: are just they're killing you horrible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and again thirty percent is still quite significant.

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Speaker 3: But you also have to ask, like, okay, so you

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Speaker 3: did all this.

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Speaker 2: Okay, the market isn't down, cat Istra, but it's still down.

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Speaker 3: The likelihood of.

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Speaker 2: Recession is still up significantly from where you started the administration.

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Speaker 2: And for what what did you accomplish?

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Speaker 3: You know, So for the people who.

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Speaker 2: Thought that there was a grand plan that was being

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Speaker 2: executed here, who were all on board for a kind

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Speaker 2: of you know, very radical reorienting of the global economic order,

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Speaker 2: that's decidedly off the table, at least for ninety days,

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Speaker 2: that is very much off the table at this point.

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Speaker 2: This will, if anything, be you know, a mild sort

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Speaker 2: of tinkering around the edges. So, you know, I think

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Speaker 2: that theory that there was a grand plan. Maybe there

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Speaker 2: was a grand plan, but they had to back away

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Speaker 2: from it in the face of realizing that they had

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Speaker 2: made some faulty assumptions going in.

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Speaker 4: I think the Grand Plan was chaos. Like I think

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Speaker 4: that's really.

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Speaker 2: I think that my theory of the Grand Plan was

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Speaker 2: always just power for Trump being able to do whatever

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Speaker 2: he wants.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think he wanted to be able

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Speaker 5: to set off global chaos, and with the.

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Speaker 4: Belief that that was his leverage, that his leverage.

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Speaker 5: Is that we're the United States, we can upend your systems,

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Speaker 5: we can upend the global financial system with the flick

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Speaker 5: of a pen from the President of the United States,

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Speaker 5: with this chart that we printed out that has Penguin

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Speaker 5: tariffs on it. I think part of his strategy was

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Speaker 5: actually just throwing everything into chaos. And I think when

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Speaker 5: the bond market started freaking out, the realization is that

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Speaker 5: that leverage only goes so far because it ends up

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Speaker 5: hitting your own people at some point.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. No, that's exactly right.

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Speaker 2: And I do think there was just a fundamental miscalculation,

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Speaker 2: both with launching the trade war against everyone in the

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Speaker 2: world and with thinking that the Chinese that we were

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Speaker 2: in a stronger position than the Chinese were, and we

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Speaker 2: just weren't, you know, we just weren't. It was easier

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Speaker 2: for them to find other customers around the world, as

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Speaker 2: evidenced by their experts actually rising during this period, than

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Speaker 2: it was for us to be able to replace all

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Speaker 2: of the goods that we rely on importing from China

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Speaker 2: at this point. Now that could be done over a

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Speaker 2: longer period of time, which will require, as we've discussed

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Speaker 2: many times on the show, significant investments in industrial policy.

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Speaker 2: And yet they were going the opposite direction of that.

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Speaker 2: And I know they were had big hopes for the

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Speaker 2: tax cut that was supposed to be in the reconciliation bill,

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Speaker 2: but none of that has even come to pass as

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Speaker 2: of yet. I wanted to read, because we've relied on

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Speaker 2: his analysis a fair amount, for a read on how

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Speaker 2: the Chinese may be viewing these events. Arno Bertrand had

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Speaker 2: initial reaction to China's statement on the agreement with the US.

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Speaker 2: He says they highlight that besides the fact that tariff

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Speaker 2: would be reduced, he says, to ten percent. There was

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Speaker 2: some confusion about this. We went and checked. It's actually

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Speaker 2: to thirty percent. But in any case, he says, a

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Speaker 2: key outcome of the meeting is that both sides quote,

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Speaker 2: recognize the importance of bilateral economic and trade relation to

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Speaker 2: the two countries and the global economy. Recognize the importance

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Speaker 2: of sustainable, long term and mutually beneficial bilateral economic and

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Speaker 2: trade relations. Continue to advance relevant work in the spirit

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Speaker 2: of mutual openness, continuous communication, cooperation and mutual respect. This

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Speaker 2: is indeed perhaps the most important outcome. Trump's teriffs marked

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Speaker 2: the apex of Washington's decoupling illusion, and this reversal should

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Speaker 2: deter any future attempts of doing the same. To use

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Speaker 2: the card analogy that the Trump administration loves to use,

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Speaker 2: Trump went all in with his extreme tariffs, but when

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Speaker 2: China called his bluff, he was forced to fold and

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Speaker 2: accept that his approach could not be sustained. It is

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Speaker 2: now clear when it comes to severing economic ties with China,

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Speaker 2: the US simply does not have the cards, no matter

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Speaker 2: how aggressively they try to play them. So with that

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Speaker 2: in mind, you're left with only one viable strategy, cooperation

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Speaker 2: and mutual respect. So that's his reading of the contours

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Speaker 2: of the at least temporary agreement that we have at

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Speaker 2: this point.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and I wondered what extent China was reacting to

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Speaker 5: other deals that the Trump administration was working on with

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Speaker 5: places like like you said, they had already found some

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Speaker 5: willingness in that region, particularly to have you know, Tamu

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Speaker 5: ship things.

443
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 3: Over to Cambodia, Vietnam or Yeah.

444
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I wonder to what extent actually they saw

445
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,399
Speaker 5: that some of those countries actually do rely so heavily

446
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 5: on US business that the Trump administration was coming to,

447
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 5: if not, you know, great deals for the American people,

448
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 5: at least deals, So I'm curious to what extent they

449
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 5: were reacting to that. I'm also really curious what this

450
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,479
Speaker 5: does to the crackdown on Deminimus. And I'm really curious

451
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 5: for how this pertains to the Hollywood announcement last what

452
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:33,200
Speaker 5: was that Sunday?

453
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:34,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, last Sunday, so we yeah.

454
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,119
Speaker 3: And then that's another thing I always thought was fake TikTok.

455
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,560
Speaker 5: I'm really curious what this does for the TikTok deal

456
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:44,680
Speaker 5: because remember China's retaliation about a month ago. It scuttled

457
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,879
Speaker 5: that last minute deal that the Trump administration allegedly was

458
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 5: very close to working out for a sale of TikTok

459
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 5: from Byteedance to a US company. And by the way,

460
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 5: I've always thought that that was fake because not that

461
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,920
Speaker 5: there aren't buyers here that'll snatch up TikTok very eagerly,

462
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 5: but that I don't think China has any serious intention

463
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,439
Speaker 5: of actually selling TikTok because guess what, they they have

464
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 5: the freaking leverage because Trump doesn't want TikTok to be

465
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 5: sold to a US company over and over again. I mean,

466
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 5: that's why he's delaying it over and over again. He

467
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 5: knows that they have the leverage on that point. So

468
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,439
Speaker 5: that's just a huge section of the economy and of

469
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 5: the average young American's daily life that's on the table here,

470
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 5: and we don't really know what's going to happen going forward.

471
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, now that is a good point.

472
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 2: So you know, all of the and this has been

473
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:34,200
Speaker 2: the overall trend of the Trump administration trade war because

474
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,119
Speaker 2: we've had all these fits and starts, first with regard

475
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 2: to Canada and Mexico, and you'll have his defenders, you know,

476
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 2: defend these extraordinarily maximalist policy positions of one hundred and

477
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 2: forty five percent terras and total decoupling of China, and

478
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 2: they're all in on it, and this is delivering for

479
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 2: mainstream and then they get rolled back and it's part

480
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 2: of the deal. But you know, with this, it's hard

481
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 2: to even point to what was actually achieved here because

482
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 2: you still now they're backing away from total to coupling.

483
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 2: So if you were in the we're going to do

484
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,640
Speaker 2: this hard reset and it's going to reindustrialize America that's

485
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 2: not happening. Apparently the tariffs are not going to be

486
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:11,400
Speaker 2: you know, paying for the budget deficit.

487
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 3: That's not happening.

488
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 2: And you're you have not actually gotten any real concessions

489
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 2: from the Chinese government out of this. You've just made

490
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 2: it more likely we're going to face recession, more likely

491
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 2: we're going to face inflation and higher costs on goods.

492
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:33,360
Speaker 2: So Trump walking away from this, walking back from the

493
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 2: most maximust policy position, It's just hard to see how

494
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 2: we're in any way better off and not worse off

495
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 2: from before Liberation Day was originally announced.

496
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 3: I mean, the lack of even any real.

497
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,959
Speaker 2: Face saving gesture here I think is pretty extraordinary. But

498
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, I'm glad to see that the

499
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 2: worst of the potential economic calamity is at least for

500
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 2: the moment, being put off the table. And at the

501
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 2: same time, just to conclude here, I don't want to

502
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 2: underestimate how they're still First of all, will likely be

503
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 2: reverberating impacts from this pause and trade that we did have.

504
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 2: We saw in COVID how the supply shocks took a

505
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 2: long time to work out, So I think you could

506
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 2: have a verbrating impacts from that, and then the continued

507
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 2: you know, teror regime that does exist around the world

508
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 2: impacts from that, and to your point, Emily, the continued

509
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 2: uncertainty because this guy, if he doesn't like the headlines

510
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 2: that come out of this and he's filled in a

511
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 2: certain kind of way and he wants to reassert his

512
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 2: authority or whatever, they could be hyped back up to

513
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:37,959
Speaker 2: two hundred percent tomorrow.

514
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 3: We just have no idea.

515
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,360
Speaker 4: Well, in China has a very long, long, long, long, long.

516
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 5: Term strategy and its economy and its society more broadly,

517
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 5: and right now, by the way, if you are a

518
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 5: foreign investor, not even in China, you don't even know

519
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 5: how the next United Space president is going to handle

520
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 5: this question, let alone the next three years. The level

521
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 5: of uncertainty in the US market right now is just dramatic.

522
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 5: And to underscore that, Crystal, even as we were talking here,

523
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 5: Trump is giving a press conference and he has said

524
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 5: that he's not looking to hurt China, that he plans

525
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 5: to speak to Sheet and Pang maybe by the end

526
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 5: of the week, and also that the Chin China deal

527
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 5: does not include tariffs that are already on.

528
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 4: So we're learning more.

529
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 5: About this by the minute based on what the President

530
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 5: of the United States says. But it's really really, really hard,

531
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 5: not just to understand what's happening. To get the exact numbers,

532
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 5: we had to sift through just this morning before Trump starts. Yeah,

533
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 5: and we to sift through a lot of different reports

534
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 5: because the flow of information is confusing. So that's just

535
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 5: day by day, let alone trying to project out into

536
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 5: the future.

537
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 4: The uncertainty is so so significant.

538
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, indeed, so I'm sure I'll be covering this more

539
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 2: tomorrow as we get more information, and we'll be able

540
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 2: to play some of those clips from Trump's press conference

541
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 2: today and figure out what exactly the hell is going on.

542
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 2: Thinking of figuring out what exactly the hell is going on,

543
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 2: Trump is also headed to the Middle East this week.

544
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 2: There are a lot of reports coming out of Gazaway.

545
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 2: Thing we know in particular is that idea of soldier

546
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 2: who's an American Israeli citizen and on Alexander is being

547
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,719
Speaker 2: released by Hamas in sort of a gesture of goodwill,

548
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 2: as the Trump administration is doing something that the Biden

549
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 2: administration never did and talking directly to Hamas bypassing Israel

550
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 2: in you in negotiations being for. We don't know what

551
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 2: that exactly is going to lead to or what it means.

552
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 2: But if one person can help us understand what is

553
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 2: going on, that would be Jeremy Scahill, and he joins

554
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 2: us now.

555
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 3: Happy to be.

556
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 2: Joined this morning by co founder of drop site News,

557
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 2: Jeremy Skaehill.

558
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 3: Great Caesar, thank you, Crystal Hamiley.

559
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, So let's go ahead and put this

560
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 2: first element up on the screen. There's a lot going

561
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 2: on this week as President Trump heads to the Middle East.

562
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 2: We got this announcement that I'll just read from President

563
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 2: Trump's true social here. I'm happy to announce that Eden Alexander,

564
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 2: an American citizen who has been held hostage since October

565
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, is coming home to his family. I'm

566
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 2: grateful to all those involved in making this monumental news happened.

567
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 2: This was a step taken in good faith towards the

568
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 2: US and the efforts of the Mediator's Cutter and Egypt

569
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: to put an end to this very brutal war and

570
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 2: return all living hostages and range their loved ones. Hopefully

571
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 2: this is the first of those final steps necessary to

572
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 2: end this brutal conflict look very much forward to that

573
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 2: day of celebration. So, Jeremy, just to start off with,

574
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 2: can you break down some of the context in which

575
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 2: this agreement and this ability to return again Alexander was obtained.

576
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 7: Well, I mean, one of one of the aspects of

577
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 7: this that is truly extraordinary is that this is the

578
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 7: first time that the United States has made a direct

579
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 7: deal with Hamas that does not involve Israel. That's a

580
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 7: major step away from Biden era policy. For instance, there

581
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 7: were a number of people with US citizenship who were

582
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 7: taken captive on October seventh during operational upsa flood, and

583
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 7: the Biden administration, you know, stood by and refused to

584
00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 7: actually negotiate directly with Hamas and constantly deferred to the Israelis.

585
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 7: So what we're seeing is a kind of unorthodox aspect

586
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 7: of Donald Trump's presidency. He recently made a deal with

587
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 7: what the US considers to be a foreign terrorist organization

588
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 7: and a non state actors ansar Ala, the Houthis of Yemen.

589
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 7: Now you have the US, beginning in February, engaged in

590
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 7: direct talks with HAMAS that is now leading to the

591
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 7: release of a dual US Israeli citizen. The other aspect

592
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 7: of this crystal that's really significant is that during this

593
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 7: entire nineteen month period, there has not been a single

594
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 7: male Israeli soldier that has been released from captivity in Gaza.

595
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 7: And it's important to remember a lot of the coverage

596
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 7: of this implies that Idon Alexander was a civilian that

597
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 7: was kidnapped. Well, HAMAS considers him to be a prisoner

598
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 7: of war because he was an active duty soldier in

599
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 7: the Israeli military. On October seventh, he was captured by

600
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 7: Palestinian fighters in uniform while serving in a military that

601
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 7: the Palestinians view as an occupying force that is operating

602
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 7: on behalf of an apartheid entity. So, you know, there

603
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 7: are details of this that I think we need to remember. Factually, recently,

604
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 7: when I was meeting with senior officials from HAMAS and

605
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 7: Palestinian Islamic Jihad, they indicated that for months they have

606
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 7: told the United States that they are willing as what

607
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 7: they call a goodwill gesture, to release Dan Alexander. And

608
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 7: part of this is that Hamas views Trump. They know

609
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 7: that Trump's administration is filled with Zionists, They know that

610
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 7: Trump's administration is very pro Israel. That's the big picture

611
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 7: of this. But on a sort of technical level, they

612
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 7: feel that they have a better shot with negotiating something

613
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 7: with Steve Whitcoff and Adam Bohler than they did with

614
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 7: Antony Blincoln or Bill Burns when Biden was president.

615
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 5: Well, let's put the next element on the screen, Jeremy,

616
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 5: because this kind of gets to exactly what you were

617
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 5: just saying. I mean, you pointed out that this was

618
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 5: the first deal broker directly between the United States and

619
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 5: Hamas without Israel, And I mean, there's been some interesting

620
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 5: comments from the Israeli right in the last twenty four

621
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 5: to forty eight hours, and I just wanted to see

622
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 5: what you make of all of these developments. Is this

623
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 5: signal maybe the next chapter in the United States relationship

624
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 5: with Israel is Israel realizing sort of the hardcore Israeli

625
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 5: right realizing that maybe they want to disentangle from the

626
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 5: United States as well. I mean, basically, what's the reaction

627
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 5: been like in last twenty four to forty eight hours

628
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 5: politically from Israel?

629
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 7: Well, you know, I mean last week you saw Mariam Aidelson,

630
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 7: who is a US and Israeli citizen, her husband of course,

631
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 7: was Sheldon Adelson. She gave one hundred million dollars to

632
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 7: Trump's reelection effort in the last election cycle, and she

633
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 7: owns a newspaper in Israel, and that paper really was

634
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 7: kind of fanning the flames of this. The idea that

635
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 7: there are indications that the Trump administration is sort of

636
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 7: kicking Netanyahu under the bus is distance seeing itself from Israel.

637
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 7: I think we should be really careful about embracing that

638
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 7: narrative too much. There's a big picture here, which is

639
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 7: that Trump's agenda is an extremely pro Israel agenda. He

640
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 7: puts Mike Huckabee in as the ambassador, their rhetoric on

641
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 7: the West Bank indicates that they're moving toward recognizing full

642
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 7: Israeli annexation of the West Bank. We could talk for

643
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 7: hours about the ways in which the Trump administration has

644
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 7: facilitated Netnyahu's agenda, including taking the leash off and letting

645
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 7: Netnyah who goes scorched earth ever since March eighteenth, killing

646
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 7: upwards of twenty six hundred Palestinians, many of them women

647
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 7: and children, including really indiscriminate attacks on camps housed by

648
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 7: housing displaced persons, but on a micro level, Yes, Emily,

649
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 7: there's something really interesting going on, which is that Donald Trump,

650
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 7: of course is a transactional guy. He also thinks very

651
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 7: highly of himself, he thinks very highly of his legacy,

652
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 7: and he is right now on his way in a

653
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 7: day to the Middle East where he's going to meet

654
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 7: with Saudi Arabia and try to secure this more than

655
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 7: trillion dollar deal that involves weapons sales and other economic matters.

656
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 7: Similar deal being made with United Arab Emirates. Of course,

657
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 7: there's going to be a lot of focus on the

658
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 7: airplane that Qatar is reportedly going to be giving Trump.

659
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 7: Trump seems to really want the Gaza war to be done.

660
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 7: He called it a brutal war and said that it's

661
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 7: time to wrap it up in that truth social post

662
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 7: that you cited earlier. So I think what we're seeing

663
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 7: here is have no illusion about the fact that Donald

664
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 7: Trump wants to facilitate a horrifying agenda on behalf of

665
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 7: the Israelis. But on the technical aspects where Netanyahu starts

666
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 7: to mess with let's just say America's business as Trump

667
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 7: views it, which is also Trump's business and his family's business,

668
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 7: then I think we have some space that opens up

669
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 7: where people like Witcoff and Adam Bowler become quite interesting

670
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 7: to the Palestinian negotiators. And I've said on this show

671
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 7: many times before, and I'll say it again, there is

672
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 7: a chance that Trump's interests aligned enough with stopping that

673
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 7: war that it benefits the Palestinians of Gaza, who have

674
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 7: endured a horrifying genocide under both Biden and Trump.

675
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 2: How does this square with the reporting we saw last

676
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 2: week from Reuters that there were high level discussions centered

677
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 2: around a US occupation of Gaza that would be based

678
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 2: on the Iraq government of the you know, our occupation

679
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 2: of Iraq after and during the Iraq War. Does How

680
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 2: did these talks square with that? Square with Trump previously floating,

681
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 2: you know, we're going to clear ount all of the Palestinians.

682
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: We're going to let the world's people be in Gaza,

683
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 2: you know his big real estate development plans there. How

684
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 2: are you making sense of those things? And how are

685
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 2: the Hamas officials you're speaking with making sense of those things?

686
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 5: Yeah?

687
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 7: I mean this morning I was communicating with a leader

688
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 7: within the Palestinian Armed Resistance and he was saying, look,

689
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 7: Hamas is taking a gamble here by making this deal

690
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 7: for Idon Alexander, because they're not getting anything on paper

691
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 7: in return that we know of. None of my sources

692
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 7: have said that the US committed to anything. And the

693
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 7: calculus here on their part is it relates to what

694
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 7: I was saying earlier. They feel that they that their

695
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 7: best shot right now is to try to accentuate the

696
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 7: divisions on a tactical level between net Yahoo and Trump

697
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 7: in the hopes that Trump then will ultimately force net

698
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 7: Yahoo to end the war. That's the gamble that Hamas

699
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 7: has taken. Their broader position is we will not release

700
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 7: a single Israeli captive unless there is a deal that

701
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 7: leads to a permanent ceasefire and the full withdrawal of

702
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,919
Speaker 7: Israeli forces. I spoke to a senior Hamas official last

703
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 7: week about these AID plans that you're talking about, and

704
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 7: he said, no one has consulted with us about this.

705
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 7: We're not involved with us, and the dimes worth of

706
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,439
Speaker 7: difference between the Israeli position and Trump's position on how

707
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 7: AID should be administered ultimately plays to Israel's agenda. Now,

708
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 7: there's also discussion that there may be a summit involving

709
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 7: the Palestinian Authority President Mahmudabas, who's eighty nine years old,

710
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 7: incredibly unpopular, is viewed by Hamas and in fact many Palestinians,

711
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 7: as a collaborator with Israel. It's possible that Trump is

712
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 7: going to try to make some deal that circumvents both

713
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 7: Israel and Hamas and Islamic Jihad and try to say, well,

714
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 7: We're going to make a deal with Mahmudabas. There's a

715
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 7: lot of complicated politics behind that. So I would say,

716
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 7: Crystal that what Trump is trying to do with his

717
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 7: proposal for having a so called NGO, which really isn't

718
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 7: an NGO. It seems, as you indicated, it's more like

719
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 7: a Paul Bremer coalition provisional authority type IRAQ two point zero.

720
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 7: What Trump is sort of trying to do is get

721
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 7: enough aid to say I'm doing something into the country,

722
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 7: but not really linking it to an end to the war,

723
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 7: which ultimately is what Netanyahu wants. So you know, let's see.

724
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 7: I mean, Hamas I think has shown an ability to

725
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 7: really hold out despite the massive human consequences, and I

726
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 7: don't see them just because Donald Trump wants photo ops

727
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 7: in the Middle East. I think we're still in for

728
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,879
Speaker 7: quite a battle, both diplomatically and potentially militarily on the ground. Now,

729
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 7: look what Netnyahuo has responded to all of this in public.

730
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 7: You know, all of these reports about Trump and Hamas,

731
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 7: Trump and ansar Ala Llah onsar Allah in Yemen, as

732
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 7: As sort of saying, well, We're going to go in

733
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 7: and conquer all of Gaza. We're going to take all

734
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,280
Speaker 7: of Gaza. We're going to force the Palestinians into the south,

735
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 7: and then we're going to have to try to figure

736
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 7: out what third countries are going to take them. So

737
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 7: he's really telegraphing I want to continue this genocide. The

738
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 7: question is is Trump willing to actually rain him in

739
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 7: a in a serious way or is Trump going to

740
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 7: try to have it both ways. Let it be a

741
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 7: little bit calmer for some months, and then it all

742
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 7: blows up again, which is basically what happened with the

743
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 7: January ceasfire deal.

744
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 5: And it seems like a lot of that rides on

745
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 5: what he hears from Steve Whitkoff. So we can go

746
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 5: ahead and roll B to B on the screen. These

747
00:36:55,239 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 5: were celebrations from Palestinians in the aftermath of the news.

748
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 5: You can see this on your screen. This is a

749
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 5: spontaneous march that was in Gaza City after the announcement yesterday,

750
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 5: and when that's finished, we can put B three on

751
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 5: the screen. This is from Steve Witcoff. It is a

752
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 5: drop site tweet noting that Israel's Channel twelve reported that

753
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 5: Steve Whitcoff's meeting with hostage families. He said that, basically quote,

754
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,240
Speaker 5: Israel is prolonging the war even though there's no path forward,

755
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 5: which is what a lot of the hostage families actually

756
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 5: already believe as well. So, Jeremy, this brings us to

757
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 5: the momentum. At least if people are looking for a

758
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 5: glimmer of good news. The momentum is at least in

759
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 5: a positive direction towards a ceasefire. But what could a

760
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 5: potential timeline look like. I mean, if we put before

761
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 5: on the screen. Jeremy, you had and we talked to

762
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 5: you about this last week. You had an interview with

763
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 5: a top Hamas official last week in Dropsite on May fifth,

764
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 5: So you have a sense of what might be on

765
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 5: the table right now in the next week or so.

766
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 4: While there is this sense of.

767
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 5: Momentum, what could maybe what is the best case scenario.

768
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 4: What is the worst case scenario?

769
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 7: I mean, you know, first of all, it really is heartbreaking,

770
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 7: and this has happened a number of times over the

771
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 7: past nineteen months. When Palestinians and Gaza hear any sort

772
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 7: of good news or something that feels like a step forward,

773
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 7: you know, people are so desperate for an end to

774
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 7: this that they do go into the streets and they

775
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 7: do celebrate, and sometimes it's real and sometimes a deal

776
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 7: is in the works, and other times Israel just responds

777
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 7: by escalating the attacks. I mean, just in the last

778
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 7: twenty four hours, we've had a couple of dozen Palestinians,

779
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 7: most of them women and children killed in heavy attacks

780
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,479
Speaker 7: that were conducted by Israel. So you know, on that front,

781
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 7: it continues to be very heartbreaking, but understandable why people

782
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 7: are so desperate for this. On the issue of Witcough,

783
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 7: Witcoff is saying what is basic common sense now among

784
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 7: the families of Israeli captives, and that they've been saying

785
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 7: for a very long time. So from their perspective, you

786
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 7: now have an American official in Steve Whitkoff and to

787
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 7: a degree in Donald Trump, that are willing to openly

788
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 7: criticize net Yaho for not prioritizing the freedom of Israeli captives.

789
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 7: This is a departure from the way Anthony Blincoln or

790
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 7: people in the Biden administration were conducting themselves. They were

791
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 7: very reluctant to publicly criticize net Yahoo. At the end

792
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 7: of the day, I think the best case scenario is

793
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 7: that the United States recognizes that net Nyahu's agenda is

794
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 7: totally counter to what would be good for the United

795
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 7: States in the world, is totally counter to what would

796
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 7: be good for stability in the region, and that means

797
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 7: actually being willing to speak with organizations and movements like Hamas,

798
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 7: Because whatever one thinks about Hamas, they were the last

799
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 7: democratically elected government in Gaza, they're not particularly happy about

800
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,280
Speaker 7: continuing to be the government. But if you are able

801
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 7: to work with them to try to stabilize the situation,

802
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 7: I think that you would find that the Middle East

803
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 7: would that there would be steps in the right direction,

804
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 7: and that Donald Trump's sort of accidental way in which

805
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 7: he could end up making a deal ends up being

806
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 7: a good case scenario because it ends war because it

807
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 7: gives some opening to talk. The worst case scenario is

808
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 7: that Trump is very crassly and cravenly trying to secure

809
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 7: these deals, give the facade that he actually wants peace,

810
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 7: and at the end of the day washing his hands

811
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 7: of it and allowing the net Yahoo's and the Mike

812
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 7: Huckabies of the world to determine what American policy is

813
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 7: going to be. That would be a catastrophic series of events.

814
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 7: I think it's more likely we'll have some sort of

815
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 7: a deal. Whether that deal is going to be acceptable

816
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 7: to the Palestinians and make it more likely that they're

817
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 7: going to get liberation or self determination is a very

818
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,439
Speaker 7: very serious question that remains unanswerable right now.

819
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 2: To that point, Jeremy, if it ends up that Hamas

820
00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 2: committing to demilitarize, if that ends up being a red line,

821
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:01,280
Speaker 2: are they on that question?

822
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 5: You know?

823
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 7: I mean, it often gets thrown around in the media

824
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 7: in a simplistic way. What does it actually mean? What

825
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 7: the let's not just talk about Hamas in a broader

826
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 7: sense among Palestinians. The idea that Palestinians are supposed to

827
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 7: just hand in all weapons and trust that the world

828
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 7: is going to somehow keep net Yahoo or Israel at

829
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,240
Speaker 7: bay is a farce that history shows is a total lie.

830
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 7: So it's not just about oh, Hamas has some weapons

831
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,720
Speaker 7: stored somewhere that they want to use to go attack Israel.

832
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 7: We're talking about the very existence of the Palestinian people.

833
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 7: There have been suggestions that if there's a hudnah, the

834
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 7: Arabic term for a long term truce, that Hamas would

835
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:46,280
Speaker 7: be willing to make concessions on how weapons would be stored,

836
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 7: how weapons would be held, But right now they're not

837
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 7: really engaging much with that discussion outside of a technical

838
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 7: framework that results in a US guaranteed and to the

839
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 7: genocide and full withdrawal of his Israeli forces. So of

840
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 7: course is going to say this is a million red

841
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 7: lines at present, but the devil will be in the details.

842
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 7: If the international community ensured that Palestinians we're going to

843
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 7: have sovereignty and we're going to be able to constitute

844
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 7: an armed force capable of defending its territorial integrity, then

845
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 7: I think that the rationale for groups like Hamas or

846
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 7: Islamic Chiad having the weapons goes away. When people get

847
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 7: their freedom and they get their stability, they don't need

848
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 7: to be engaged in resistance movements. Armed resistance movements. That's

849
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 7: the core of the story. So from their perspective, weapons

850
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 7: aren't the issue. The issue is their rights as a people,

851
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 7: and you can make the resistance movements irrelevant by respecting

852
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 7: the rights of Palestinians as all other people in the

853
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 7: world are supposed to have under international law.

854
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 4: And go ahead, Crystal.

855
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 3: Last question for you, Jeremy.

856
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 2: We're about to talk about the Air Force one replacement

857
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 2: from Kutchar and the extraordinary corruption of this administration. But

858
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 2: I wanted to get your opinion on the reason why

859
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 2: Kutcher wants to give this plane to the Trump administration

860
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 2: and how that ties into the various negotiations that are

861
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:06,439
Speaker 2: going on here.

862
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 7: I mean, I have no idea what the actual if

863
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,839
Speaker 7: there's like a specific policy motivation for it. But you know,

864
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 7: Donald Trump, the store of Donald Trump's presidency is wide

865
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,320
Speaker 7: open for business, and that's very clear. You know, Kutar

866
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 7: is obviously an increasingly powerful player in international diplomacy. It

867
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 7: is a major figure in the Gaza negotiations but also

868
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 7: in other regional issues. So you know, Katar is subjected

869
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 7: to a lot of smears. Kuttar also is playing its

870
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 7: own game here and recognizes that it is increasingly an

871
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 7: influential player, and I think that it's it's symbolic of

872
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 7: the fact that we have a man in the White

873
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 7: House who' views the White House as a business that

874
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 7: can benefit himself and his family, and you know, at

875
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 7: the end of the day, maybe we'll do something good

876
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 7: for America. But let's be clear about it. Donald Trump

877
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 7: is an open store for more business.

878
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know.

879
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,919
Speaker 2: Ryan was pointing out on Twitter that in the first

880
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 2: Trump administration there was apparently some sort of real estate

881
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 2: bailout that Jared Kushner's dad was looking for from Qatar,

882
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 2: and they declined, and then they felt that they really

883
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 2: screwed up by not just you know, giving the you know,

884
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 2: the Trump administration whatever grift and gift and corruption that

885
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 2: they were asking for at the time.

886
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:24,399
Speaker 3: So apparently they learned that lesson.

887
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, it's it is it is extraordinary. It's

888
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 7: it's presidency inc. You know, no doubt about it. But

889
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:33,720
Speaker 7: you know, I'll just go back to actually what Hamas

890
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 7: people have told me. They recognize all of that, and

891
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 7: they realize in that kind of specific, kind of kind

892
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 7: of institutional corruption, there may be opportunity to accidentally get

893
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 7: something better than they would have gotten, you know, from

894
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 7: the adults in the room under Biden, and I think

895
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:49,240
Speaker 7: they're right who.

896
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 2: Were ideological, committed Zionists. So we'll see where all of

897
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 2: this goes. Jeremi, thank you so much for taking the

898
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: time to break it all down for us.

899
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 3: Great to see you.

900
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 7: Thank you as always.

901
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 5: Well, as we just mentioned in our conversation with Jeremy,

902
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 5: if we put B six on the screen, news broke

903
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 5: yesterday that kind of the details of this news broke yesterday.

904
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 5: To be clear, some of this we kind of already knew,

905
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 5: but then Jonathan Carlo at ABC broke the story open

906
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 5: and there were some follow up reports that Cutter is

907
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 5: essentially giving the United States the gift of a to

908
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 5: be fair beautiful luxury plane.

909
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,280
Speaker 3: They call it a flying palace, a flying.

910
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 5: Palace, and some of four has pictures of it, and

911
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 5: it is indeed a flying palace. They came out with that,

912
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 5: I think late last night or earlier this morning. Actually,

913
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,479
Speaker 5: we have some pictures here. If you put B seven

914
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 5: on the screen, we could go through them. So the

915
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 5: way this arrangement is going to work is basically that

916
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 5: you have the plane being gifted to the Department of

917
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 5: Defense used as Air Force one. Because this will come

918
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 5: as a shock to no one. Boeing has been myired

919
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,720
Speaker 5: in delays and all kinds of problems with their efforts

920
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 5: to rehaul the plane for the president. So this is

921
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 5: what you're seeing said by side on the screen. Last week,

922
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 5: the Trump organization unveiled a new five point five billion.

923
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 4: Dollar golf resort project and Cutter.

924
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 5: Today, ABC reports that Cutter are set to give Trump

925
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 5: a four hundred million dollar luxury Boeing seven forty seven.

926
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 5: And then if you're looking at those things side by side, Crystal,

927
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 5: the dates are just incredible.

928
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 4: April twenty ninth and then May.

929
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 3: Eleven, two weeks later.

930
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 5: And you know the true story of this, like how

931
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 5: Cutter has worked out the steal with the United States government.

932
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 4: The details are still a little bit unclear.

933
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 5: We do know that Pambondi, who is the obviously sitting

934
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 5: attorney in General, she used to be a lobbyist for Cutter.

935
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 5: She was at Ballard Partners. And what she was doing

936
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 5: the filing. You can look at the filing. It was

937
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 5: to help Cutter basically improve its approach to human trafficking

938
00:46:58,239 --> 00:46:59,959
Speaker 5: to it was in the leader of the World cup.

939
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 5: She left and then came back and re picked up

940
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 5: the contract. But it was like to help them message

941
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 5: and deal with the United States all of that stuff

942
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 5: as it pertained to human trafficking. So we just have

943
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 5: a web here of conflicts of interest and before I just.

944
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:19,800
Speaker 3: Making one hundred and fifteen K a month.

945
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, those Cutter contracts are good, which is why Cash, Pattel, Lee, Zelden,

946
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 5: and Pambondi are members of the Trump administration who have

947
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 5: previously taken money from Catter before going into the administration.

948
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 5: This is an intercept story back from February that I

949
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 5: highly recommend everyone read. Obviously, Cutter is served infamous for

950
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 5: doing this with Western countries. But this is the arrangement

951
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 5: of this. The Trump administration says, put BA eight on

952
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,800
Speaker 5: the screen. This is the actual text of the emolument's clause,

953
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 5: which Crystal demanded we put up on the screen. She

954
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 5: was like, like during the tea party, like the Libertarians

955
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 5: walking around with their pocket constant.

956
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 2: Right, blanch your pocket constitution, friends, This is the emolument's clause.

957
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 5: So the way they're getting around it with the gift

958
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 5: of the Boeing seven verse seven eight is that it

959
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 5: is going to the Defense Department. So the e Molument's

960
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 5: cause prevents gifts to rulers, officers or representatives. So Crystal

961
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 5: their way around that is saying it is a gift

962
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 5: to the Defense Department from what we can tell.

963
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 2: And then it's being given to the Trump Presidential Library. Yes,

964
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 2: so it will only ever benefit him. It's not like

965
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 2: whatever the next president, whoever the next president is AOC

966
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 2: or JD vance probably is going to benefit from it.

967
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:39,280
Speaker 3: It's just going to be Trump.

968
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 2: But technically because it's going to the Defense Department, not

969
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 2: directly to the person of him.

970
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 3: That's how they're.

971
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,280
Speaker 2: Getting around it. And bond memo authored by Pam Bondi,

972
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,760
Speaker 2: who had previously been paid hundreds of thousands of dollars

973
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:51,280
Speaker 2: by Kaitar.

974
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,399
Speaker 5: Yes, no exactly, and so Crystal this is their way

975
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 5: around it is saying that it is a gift not

976
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 5: to the president himself but to a the Department Defense,

977
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 5: which Cutter says, it's just temporary, so you know, the

978
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 5: next three years temporary quote unquote, and then it goes

979
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 5: to the Trump Library. So in neither of those cases

980
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 5: is it going directly to Donald Trump.

981
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 4: That's the that's the line.

982
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I mean it's so cliche to say at

983
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 2: this point, but imagine if Barack Obama, you know, and

984
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 2: you know so many Republicans too, they you know, they

985
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 2: consider Qutar to be just like an agent of Hamas

986
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 2: and you know, run by terror, like the language around

987
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 2: Qatar that comes from the right. And then to have

988
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 2: them making this extraordinary, just brazen gift of corruption, this

989
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 2: four hundred million dollar plane to Donald Trump is I mean,

990
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 2: what can you even say about it? This is what

991
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 2: I was referring to with Jeremy what Ryan said on Twitter,

992
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 2: which I think is good sort of like context for

993
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 2: how this and why this all is happening. He says

994
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 2: during Trump One, Jared Kusher's dad shook down Qatar for

995
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 2: a real estate bailout. Qatar turned him down. The US

996
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 2: then let Saudi Arabia and the UAE block Qatar, and

997
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 2: they very nearly invaded. Secretary Tillerson tried to stop them

998
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,879
Speaker 2: and defend Qatar, where the US is a major military base,

999
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 2: but Kushner intervened against Katar. Katari officials told us at

1000
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:12,839
Speaker 2: the time they understood it all to be paid back

1001
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,320
Speaker 2: for not making the investment, and said if they'd have

1002
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 2: known the consequences, they would have just paid it. Clearly,

1003
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 2: they've learned from last time, and that's where you are.

1004
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 2: It is like, you know, it's very clear he's for

1005
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 2: sale to the highest bidder. So they're like, okay, you

1006
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 2: have this. He's always had this fixation on Air Force

1007
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 2: one and wanting a new Air Force one and upgrading

1008
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 2: Air Force one blah blah blah. So they picked up

1009
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:36,839
Speaker 2: on this and they're like, okay, well we can play

1010
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:37,359
Speaker 2: that game too.

1011
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1012
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:41,240
Speaker 5: Trump put out a truth social on it as well,

1013
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 5: and yeah, it's just completely the word is shameless, so

1014
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 5: he says, So the fact that the Defense Department is

1015
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 5: getting a.

1016
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 3: Gift free of charge of a seven.

1017
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 5: Forty seven aircraft to replace the forty year old Air

1018
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,320
Speaker 5: Force one temporarily in a very public and transparent transaction,

1019
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 5: so bothers the crooked Democrats if they insist we pay

1020
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:01,720
Speaker 5: top dollar for the plane.

1021
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 4: Anybody can do that.

1022
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:03,439
Speaker 3: The Dems are.

1023
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:06,760
Speaker 4: World class losers Mega Crystal.

1024
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 5: So this introduces an interesting question, which is, to his point,

1025
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 5: they are so shameless about this. We are just seeing

1026
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 5: it transpire completely nakedly in public. So maybe there's a

1027
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 5: benefit in a weird way to trump Ism, which is

1028
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 5: literally just we are treating Jeremy just said this.

1029
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 4: Actually we had them on.

1030
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 5: We're treating the American government as a business, and we're

1031
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:33,800
Speaker 5: doing it out in the open ways that other presidents

1032
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 5: had it previously done it. So I guess it's a

1033
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 5: on another level of like just money going back and forth.

1034
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 5: But b at least we get some more insights into

1035
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:47,280
Speaker 5: it as it happens.

1036
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:50,399
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I can't get on board with classes half full.

1037
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 2: There are solatives of the American presidency being for sale

1038
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 2: to the highest bidder, I mean, and that's that, truly

1039
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 2: is what it is. And I think, you know, to

1040
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 2: zoom out to the matter perspective, because you see these things,

1041
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 2: you see this, you see I will never get over

1042
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 2: the Trump crypto coin and the way that that is

1043
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 2: just a direct pipeline for bribery, and it has already

1044
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:15,760
Speaker 2: been utilized. We don't even know by how many people

1045
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 2: and to what ends. We have no clue. So to

1046
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 2: the point about you know, oh, at least it's transparent,

1047
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 2: it's not transparent. We know that the vast majority of

1048
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 2: the largest purchasers of Trump shit coin are foreign nationals.

1049
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:29,720
Speaker 2: We have no idea who they are, what they want,

1050
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 2: or what they're going to ask for when they get

1051
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:33,879
Speaker 2: their little private dinner with him. We know that some

1052
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:38,280
Speaker 2: people who are you know, involved in various crypto scams

1053
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,720
Speaker 2: have used that in order to get their enforcements dropped

1054
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:47,240
Speaker 2: against them. So, you know, I think you have such

1055
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 2: a brazen ramping up of outright theft, corruption and bribery

1056
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,760
Speaker 2: in this administration, and it can sometimes boggle the mind

1057
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 2: as to why there isn't just this mass public reaction

1058
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 2: against it, because obvious the public is disgusted with corruption.

1059
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 2: And I do think that it's this thing where number one,

1060
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 2: it's just become sort of accepted with Trump, like, well, yeah,

1061
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 2: he's just as hard what it is.

1062
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 3: And number two, because.

1063
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 5: He ran on it, I know the system alone can

1064
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 5: fix it.

1065
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 4: Blah blah blah.

1066
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:18,879
Speaker 2: Well he ran on the draining the swamp. He did

1067
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 2: not run on I'm going to be the swamp times

1068
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 2: one million. But I think because he just does these

1069
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 2: things out in the open, and because there's so much

1070
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 2: to get outraged about, people get sort of fatigued over

1071
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 2: and it just becomes kind of like baked into the cake.

1072
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 2: I think that's number one with regard to him. But

1073
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 2: number two, I do think because you have this sense

1074
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 2: and reality of a granted much lower level, but still

1075
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 2: significant and outrageous and unacceptable levels of corruption that have

1076
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 2: been endemic in the American government across both parties for

1077
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 2: so long, it's hard to it's hard to make plane

1078
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:57,479
Speaker 2: how much of a different scale we're talking about here.

1079
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,399
Speaker 2: You know, even if you consider what I think, are

1080
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 2: you know, some of the most grotesque abuses, like the

1081
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 2: insider trading of Nancy Pelosi and things of that nature,

1082
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 2: that cannot come close to getting a direct four hundred

1083
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,400
Speaker 2: million dollar gift from a foreign government. It doesn't come

1084
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 2: close to getting literally billions. I mean, I saw the recently,

1085
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 2: a huge percentage of Trump's net worth is now because

1086
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 2: of his crypto coin, which is just about.

1087
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 3: Yes, overt bribery. It's a huge chunk in history.

1088
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 2: There is nothing that compares to this level of corruption.

1089
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 2: But when you have, you know, so much corruption that

1090
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 2: was already endemic to the American presidency and American politics,

1091
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 2: with the floodgates being opened under Citizens United, and how

1092
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 2: big money flows and courses through the veins of our

1093
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 2: political system, I think it becomes very difficult for people

1094
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 2: to really wrap their minds around how much of a

1095
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 2: different scale we're talking about here with Donald Trump.

1096
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I mean I think that's true.

1097
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 5: And I was I was sort of being tongue in

1098
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 5: cheek earlier, so forgive me for that. I mean, it

1099
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 5: is with Trump kind of interesting to see his justification

1100
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:05,760
Speaker 5: for these things as they happen, that he is merely

1101
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 5: getting the Trump plane or he's merely getting the plane

1102
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 5: back when Boeing couldn't, you know, make all of the

1103
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 5: necessary improvesment. By the way, the right answer to that

1104
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 5: is to make Boeing get.

1105
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 4: Its shit together.

1106
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 5: Rank you have all of the le as Trump would say,

1107
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 5: you have the cards, make Boeing get its shit together.

1108
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 5: But yeah, I mean, I think with him it's easy

1109
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 5: to I guess, forget that he can say these things

1110
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:31,400
Speaker 5: are transparent.

1111
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,760
Speaker 4: What we do not know is what's happening behind closed doors.

1112
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:37,320
Speaker 5: So Ryan putting out that point about the Kustner family

1113
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 5: and Rex Tillerson, A lot of that is known in

1114
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 5: retrospect after the first Trump administration. A lot of the

1115
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 5: like even the broad contours of that, we understand post presidency.

1116
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,479
Speaker 5: There's always there are always things happening that we don't

1117
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 5: know about. And right now Donald Trump is going to

1118
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 5: the Middle East. He's attempting to brokers cease fire, he's

1119
00:55:54,960 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 5: attempting to calm tensions. But what how you get from

1120
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 5: point A to point B. We would be foolish to

1121
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 5: think that we know everything. Yeah, is being negotiated with

1122
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 5: Cutter and with other countries that also may be engaged

1123
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 5: in soft levels.

1124
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 3: Of corruption, you know.

1125
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 4: And by the way, I don't know that.

1126
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,799
Speaker 5: This will actually be called illegal, Like I don't know

1127
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 5: that this will I'm sure it'll be challenged in court. Yeah,

1128
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:23,839
Speaker 5: I don't know that they'll actually I think I think

1129
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 5: they have found a pretty good loophole here legally, but

1130
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 5: it's obviously on its face corrupt, so something not technically

1131
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 5: being against. There are things all the time, like actually

1132
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,240
Speaker 5: a lot of the stock trades that happen you just mentioned,

1133
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 5: Nancy Pelosi. Ye, a lot of the stuff. Sometimes they

1134
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 5: don't comply with the law. But a lot of this

1135
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,880
Speaker 5: stuff actually is compliant with the law. They're trading and

1136
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:45,800
Speaker 5: they just close it, but it's still completely unethical.

1137
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 2: Well, the Supreme Court has made it basically so that

1138
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:51,400
Speaker 2: you know, corruption or bribery literally has to be like

1139
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 2: I am taking this bag of money from you in

1140
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 2: exchange for this thing which I then actually accomplished. I mean,

1141
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:02,359
Speaker 2: they have narrowed it extraord narrowly so that you know,

1142
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 2: the general baseline level of corruption in DC is wildly

1143
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:09,760
Speaker 2: unethical to your point, yes, but much of it not illegal.

1144
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 3: And so in terms of.

1145
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 2: How the courts will view this, particularly that I have

1146
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 2: no idea, you know, I haven't read any legal analyzes

1147
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 2: of what direction they could go in with this, but

1148
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 2: I think it's important to think about why the monument's

1149
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 2: clause is in the Constitution, and it's because listen, zooming

1150
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 2: out from look, it may end up that the four

1151
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 2: hundred million dollar plane here actually helps secure a better

1152
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:33,520
Speaker 2: deal for you know, the Palestinians and ends in a

1153
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 2: place where I'm glad that they you know, that the

1154
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 2: thumb was put on the scale in that direction, that

1155
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 2: there were a long way from that.

1156
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 5: But as opposed to Democrats taking a bunch of money

1157
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 5: from APAC and then pretending that they well.

1158
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 2: He's got on the other side, he's got Maria Maddilson

1159
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 2: giving him one hundred million dollars. So maybe the four

1160
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 2: hundred million dollar plane you know comes out in the back.

1161
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I'm just saying, zoom out from

1162
00:57:55,720 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 2: these particular details. You don't want an American president to

1163
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 2: be operating foreign policy based on what is in their

1164
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 2: own personal financial interests.

1165
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 3: The ideal here is.

1166
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 2: That you want them to be representing the interests of

1167
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 2: the country, not the interest of their own bank account.

1168
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 2: And with Trump, this has always been a problem because

1169
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 2: his business obviously has tentacles all around the world. You

1170
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,080
Speaker 2: raise the element here of they just did a business

1171
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 2: deal in Qatar as well. He's got the Saudi Live

1172
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 2: golf deal, real estate developments all over the place, Gozla.

1173
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 4: He wants to be a real estate film apparently.

1174
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1175
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 2: And the level of foreign entanglements with this president has

1176
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 2: always been extraordinary, always really truly been unprecedented, I think

1177
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 2: in American history. I don't think there's any parallel that

1178
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 2: you could really point to with this. And now you

1179
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 2: layer on top of that just these totally outright brazen

1180
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 2: bribery schemes and Trump one point zero. You had the

1181
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 2: Trump Hotel, and the way to get in his good

1182
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 2: graces here in DC was to come with your foreign

1183
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 2: delegation and book a large block of rooms and spend

1184
00:58:57,040 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 2: wildly and lavishly at Trump Hotel. That was your way

1185
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 2: to signal you know that you are helping him out

1186
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 2: personally and financially with the crypto coin. And then this

1187
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 2: just like brazen Freere's four hundred million dollar luxury palace

1188
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 2: in the skyplane that we know that you'd be really

1189
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 2: excited about. Those things are you know, are just on

1190
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 2: steroids in a way that we could not have possibly imagined.

1191
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 2: And you can never know when he's making decisions. Are

1192
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 2: these actually the decisions he thinks are good for the

1193
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 2: American people in American interests and good for you know, whatever

1194
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 2: goals we would want to establish, or is this just

1195
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:30,919
Speaker 2: about who came in as the highest bidder.

1196
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 5: Well, and it's also not about money like this is

1197
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 5: it shouldn't be about money. Foreign policy shouldn't just be

1198
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 5: about money, obviously, And that's another problem with this is,

1199
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 5: you know, the blend in his truth social post I

1200
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 5: think is genuinely a very interesting glimpse into how he

1201
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 5: views these things. It is this Trumpian pragmatism, which is

1202
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 5: that it's not corruption. It's this pragmatic way to get

1203
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 5: around Boeing and do what's in the best interests of

1204
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 5: the United States, And how could you possibly be upset

1205
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 5: about that? But it's not just about getting a new plane.

1206
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:04,520
Speaker 5: It's about what Katar thinks it's getting for giving you

1207
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:05,440
Speaker 5: the new plane.

1208
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 4: And that's why.

1209
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 5: We talked about this on the show last week. The

1210
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 5: problem with conflicts of interest, which we cover here all

1211
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 5: the time, whether it's Republicans or Democrats, is the appearance

1212
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:16,560
Speaker 5: of the conflict of interest. It is not merely whether

1213
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 5: someone acts in a way.

1214
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 4: That exposes their conflict.

1215
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 5: It's actually this is what the United States for a

1216
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 5: long time was at least slightly better than some other

1217
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 5: countries and actually cracking down on the appearance of conflict

1218
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 5: of interest.

1219
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 4: And by the way, I said slightly better, that's the bar.

1220
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 5: And global politics for this is low, such as the

1221
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:41,040
Speaker 5: nature of humanity. But we used to take that much

1222
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 5: more seriously, and now there's just a complete shamelessness to it,

1223
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 5: at least around Trump. And I mean I hope that

1224
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 5: Democrats being scandalized by this, and even like the Center

1225
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 5: and everyone basically being scandalized.

1226
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 3: By this, scandalized by this, as it.

1227
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 5: Would be consistent and so I hope people being scandalized

1228
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 5: by this. It means that in the post Trump era

1229
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 5: we go back to being scandalized by these things in general,

1230
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 5: because it really is the appearance that gives other countries

1231
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 5: the idea that maybe something happened, that he can be bought,

1232
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 5: that the United States can be bought. That in and

1233
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 5: of itself, just the appearance of it, whether or not

1234
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 5: he actually acts in their interest.

1235
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 4: I mean, obviously.

1236
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 3: It's worse if he does.

1237
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 5: But the appearance in and of itself is part of

1238
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 5: the problem here, because it erodes the reputation of the

1239
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 5: United States, and it erods the credibility of whatever deal

1240
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 5: is ultimately.

1241
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:37,120
Speaker 3: Reached, and that's the sort of long term damage.

1242
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:40,440
Speaker 2: Obviously, I'm worried about the immediate damage with the terump presidency,

1243
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 2: but I also am worried about the long term damage

1244
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:45,680
Speaker 2: because typically when these things get put on the table,

1245
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 2: then you don't walk back from it. Like what president

1246
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 2: future president Republican or Democrat, is going to look at

1247
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:55,920
Speaker 2: the opportunity to become massively wealthy and you know, take

1248
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 2: these sorts of bribes from foreign countries and is going

1249
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,919
Speaker 2: to turn away from that? Talking about people who are

1250
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 2: you know, extraordinarily ambitious and power hungry who ascend to

1251
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 2: those levels. So I think that post Trump, I think

1252
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:12,240
Speaker 2: it's going to take more than just a sort of

1253
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 2: return of norms. I think you're gonna have to codify.

1254
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 2: You're going to have to have some new laws. Like

1255
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 2: you know, post Watergate, post Nixon, there was a rash

1256
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 2: of legislation that was meant to ensure okay, we're not

1257
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 2: doing that again.

1258
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 3: We need to return to good governance.

1259
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:30,919
Speaker 2: Some of that was campaign finance reform, by the way,

1260
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 2: that has been completely destroyed and decimated by this point.

1261
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 2: But you're going to need some actual like legal teeth

1262
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 2: and legislation to put this toothbasse back in the tube.

1263
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:42,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I think that's right.

1264
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 5: I think we saw that with Joe Biden refusing to

1265
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:48,960
Speaker 5: acknowledge his mental capacity after Trump won, and a lot

1266
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:52,480
Speaker 5: of establishment Democrats helping him cover up the state of

1267
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 5: his health no matter what they say now. I think

1268
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 5: a lot of it was because of the first Trump administration, which,

1269
01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:59,360
Speaker 5: by the way, we have technowledge in and of itself.

1270
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 5: Donald Trump was elected because of in part Clinton corruption,

1271
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 5: because people were so discussed by Clinton corruption, So we

1272
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 5: can keep pulling back the layers on this, but there

1273
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:11,360
Speaker 5: has never been. I mean, Clinton Foundation, I think was

1274
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 5: utterly egregious. I think Joe Biden's part in the Hunter

1275
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 5: Biden and Frank Biden and James Biden and Valerie Biden

1276
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 5: lobbying scheme was grotesque. I think it was undercovered. All

1277
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 5: of that is true, but on the scale of what's

1278
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:27,800
Speaker 5: happening with Donald Trump. You mentioned the net worth. I

1279
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 5: looked it up while we were talking to CBS reported

1280
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:32,880
Speaker 5: on it. This is a normal Eisen Richard Painter thing

1281
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:35,400
Speaker 5: from a sort of left of center nonprofits. So take

1282
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,479
Speaker 5: that for what you will. But they estimate the Trump

1283
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 5: families networth has increased by two point nine billion because

1284
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:44,040
Speaker 5: of the crypto holdings, and that represents about forty percent

1285
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 5: of Trump's networth. Forty percent of his net worth, imagine.

1286
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 5: So this is a man who has spent decades in business.

1287
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:53,959
Speaker 5: These meme coins lost launched in January. We're five months

1288
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 5: in and forty percent of his net worth is now

1289
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 5: tied up in those meme coins.

1290
01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:00,640
Speaker 2: Is remarkable, tells remarkable, tells you everything right there.

1291
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:01,480
Speaker 3: That's statistic