Speaker 1: Hi, it's acua. Australia's twenty twenty two election was labeled
Speaker 1: the Climate Election, and that resulted in a big shift
Speaker 1: in the country's politics. With only a three year parliamentary cycle,
Speaker 1: Australia will once again go to the polls on May third.
Speaker 1: This time, Donald Trump's shadow looms large over whatever happens.
Speaker 1: So will it be another climate election this year? Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Green's editor in Asia, David Stringer, has the answer in
Speaker 1: this episode for our sister podcast, Bloomberg Australia. I wanted
Speaker 1: to share it with zero listeners. Enjoy it and we'll
Speaker 1: be back with a regular episode later this week.
Speaker 2: Three years ago, Australia was on the verge of an
Speaker 2: election dominated by a wave of independent mpaigns who promised
Speaker 2: a climate change reckoning. We're heading to the polls again
Speaker 2: in just over two weeks, so where are all the
Speaker 2: climate warriors?
Speaker 3: Climate change is having an impact on our weather patterns.
Speaker 2: If the renewables are so much cheaper as the Prime
Speaker 2: Minister keeps telling you, why has he broken his promise
Speaker 2: of a two hunred and seventy five dollars a year
Speaker 2: cut to your electricity built?
Speaker 3: Here's the lowdown on nuclear power. It will add twelve
Speaker 3: hundred dollars to your power built, it will take decades
Speaker 3: to build. It will block cheaper renewable energy.
Speaker 2: Hello. I'm Rebecca Jones and welcome to the Bloomberg Australia Podcast.
Speaker 2: This week we're taking a look at how climate issues
Speaker 2: are featuring in the federal election campaign. Here with me
Speaker 2: is David Stringer, who heads up climate and ESG coverage
Speaker 2: in Asia for Bloomberg News. He also has the thrilling
Speaker 2: privilege of sharing a pod with me in the Melbourne
Speaker 2: Bureau for the better part of the last decade. So
Speaker 2: it's safe to suggest that this is a topic that
Speaker 2: we have discussed at length over the years, and it
Speaker 2: felt time right to let you all eavesdrop in on
Speaker 2: something that we at least can't stop talking about. David, Hello,
Speaker 2: Thank you for joining me.
Speaker 4: Thanks a pleasure, pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2: So Australian elections have seen divisive arguments in the past
Speaker 2: two decades over climate policy, and it's often been an
Speaker 2: area of clear difference between the main parties at a
Speaker 2: time of pressing concerns among voters over a raft of
Speaker 2: other things, from the cost of living to the affordability
Speaker 2: of housing to the impact of the US China trade war.
Speaker 2: Is climate change of factor in this campaign?
Speaker 5: I think it's quite clear, having observed the campaign over
Speaker 5: the past few weeks, that it's quite clearly quite different
Speaker 5: to elections past. If we think about more recent elections,
Speaker 5: the climate debate has often been incredibly noisy. This time around,
Speaker 5: it's still there as an issue, but it's more of
Speaker 5: a background hum. It's simply not getting the attention as
Speaker 5: an issue that's been in the past.
Speaker 4: That's understandable. I mean, if we think back to twenty twenty.
Speaker 5: Two, Australia was just sort of getting over and still
Speaker 5: was quite clear in people's minds that the impact that
Speaker 5: those devastating twenty nineteen twenty twenty bushfires.
Speaker 4: Had had, right yeah, really brought.
Speaker 5: Home some of the potential some of the consequences of
Speaker 5: a lack of action on climate change from the then government.
Speaker 5: We saw some of that feed through and certainly benefits
Speaker 5: some of those Teal candidate. They campaigned on a platform
Speaker 5: of increased climate action. They were very critical of the
Speaker 5: then Scott Morrison government's timid approach towards reducing emissions. If
Speaker 5: we think even further back twenty thirteen. You know, one
Speaker 5: of the first national elections that I saw here in Australia.
Speaker 5: Back then, debate was dominated by the carbon pricing mechanism
Speaker 5: carbon taxed by another name, in effect brought Tony Abbott
Speaker 5: to power. He campaigned incredibly hard on repealing that mechanism
Speaker 5: one office and subsequently did scrap it. So we've been
Speaker 5: through a period where climate has been a real driver
Speaker 5: of policy and debate. It's seen party leaders ours did.
Speaker 5: It's been a determinate elections this time not so much so.
Speaker 5: I guess the question I've been asking myself is why
Speaker 5: is that?
Speaker 2: It has been quite a busy decade, hasn't it? I mean,
Speaker 2: who can forget that iconic image of former Prime Minister
Speaker 2: Scott Morrison holding the chunk of thermal coal in Parliament?
Speaker 4: This is coal. Don't be fright, scare Que Treasurer knows the.
Speaker 2: Rule of props a useful place. I think that we
Speaker 2: should start this discussion at is what is on the
Speaker 2: table from both of our two major parties going into
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty five elections. David, can you step us
Speaker 2: through the key differences in energy policy this time? Is
Speaker 2: it as simple as nuclear versus renewables for example.
Speaker 5: Clearly there are differences between the two major parties, but
Speaker 5: I'm going to be a little bit contrarian and I'm
Speaker 5: going to point to something where there is an area
Speaker 5: of concer census. Both major parties are going into this
Speaker 5: campaign saying Australia needs to hit net zero emissions by
Speaker 5: twenty fifty. There's no debate over the end point. There's
Speaker 5: no confusion over the goal. Where there are differences is
Speaker 5: how do we get there how fast, at what cost,
Speaker 5: you know, and at what cost to communities, not just
Speaker 5: at what financial cost. If we look at Labour's platform,
Speaker 5: you know they did bring in a raft of measures
Speaker 5: in their first term. They legislated a more ambitious target
Speaker 5: for emissions reductions that's forty three percent below two thousand
Speaker 5: and five levels by twenty thirty and they'll continue to
Speaker 5: support the.
Speaker 4: Adoption of large scale renewables.
Speaker 5: They've made a pledge for around about two billion Australian
Speaker 5: dollars extra in funding for the Clean Energy Finance Corp
Speaker 5: that sort of seeds renewables and green technologies. There's a
Speaker 5: program to subsidize household batteries that's intended to help extend
Speaker 5: that solar boom we've seen in Australia, you know, and
Speaker 5: there are some policies around this ambition to bring green
Speaker 5: manufacturing jobs away from places like China and here in Australia.
Speaker 5: It's pretty much steady as she goes in terms of
Speaker 5: their policy this time, the Liberal Party, we haven't heard
Speaker 5: a huge amount, but what we have is very interesting
Speaker 5: and chiefly among it, as you mentioned, the idea of
Speaker 5: bringing nuclear power to Australia.
Speaker 2: Yes, tell me about that.
Speaker 5: The detail is something clearly that you know, we still
Speaker 5: want to see more of and still needs to be
Speaker 5: worked out. But you know, in simple terms, you know,
Speaker 5: what the Liberal Party have suggested is having seven locations
Speaker 5: across Australia that for the first time ever, would provide
Speaker 5: nuclear power generation. You know, that would take a number
Speaker 5: of steps. Nuclear power is illegal in lots of parts
Speaker 5: of the country. It can take a long time and
Speaker 5: is incredibly expensive. How those things are reconciled we're yet
Speaker 5: to fully understand. But it is a key policy and
Speaker 5: a key point of difference between the two parties.
Speaker 2: So there is a general alignment on some metrics, but
Speaker 2: in others they do vary quite widely. I would like
Speaker 2: to zoom in on some of the key seats that
Speaker 2: we're looking at this election. One that comes to my
Speaker 2: mind is the electorate of Hunter, which of course has
Speaker 2: coal as its major industry. Now, David, you and I
Speaker 2: both know working in the bureaus here, that we've had
Speaker 2: other regional polls occur in recent times has been all.
Speaker 2: There's been one in Queensland, there's also been one in WA.
Speaker 2: What do the results in those states tell us about
Speaker 2: the climate outlook nationally for Australia.
Speaker 5: You mentioned the Hunter Valley and of course that lump
Speaker 5: of coal you referenced before that was held by Scott
Speaker 5: Morrison in twenty seventeen from the Hunter Valley and it
Speaker 5: remains a really crucial emblem, you know, and symbol in
Speaker 5: this election, because how do you handle the transition of
Speaker 5: those kinds of communities from traditional industries in this case coal.
Speaker 4: To future industries.
Speaker 5: The outlook is uncertain, so it would be really interesting
Speaker 5: to see what happens in New South Wales. Of the
Speaker 5: recent regional elections we've had, the one that's really interested
Speaker 5: me is in Queensland, where we saw the incumbent Labor
Speaker 5: government replaced by a new Liberal National Coalition government very quickly,
Speaker 5: we've seen some big and significant decisions on climate and
Speaker 5: energy policy. The government there has announced a sort of
Speaker 5: five year energy plan that it's working on. Also, it's
Speaker 5: already put a couple one hundred million dollars into the
Speaker 5: maintenance and upgrades of existing coal plants. It signaled that
Speaker 5: it sees a longer life for the coal fired power
Speaker 5: capacity in Queensland. It expects it to continue for far
Speaker 5: longer than expected. What's most interesting is if that's the
Speaker 5: kind of policy that we could see, if we see
Speaker 5: that result replicated national.
Speaker 2: And what about WA Because I think people outside of
Speaker 2: Australia when they're thinking about the resource industry within Australia,
Speaker 2: they think of the Pilborough right the great open expansive
Speaker 2: dessert happened in their recent regional poll.
Speaker 5: I mean in Western Australia and it's a place I've
Speaker 5: been very fortunate to visit a lot during my career
Speaker 5: at Bloomberg and spend a lot of time luckily in
Speaker 5: the Pilborough and there's a few dynamics going on there. Obviously,
Speaker 5: we saw the Labor government return to office, but was
Speaker 5: that an entirely positive step? On climate policy. I think
Speaker 5: that's debatable. One of the big criticisms nationally of Antony
Speaker 5: Albernesi's Labor government has been that there've been too weak
Speaker 5: on implementing environmental policies. They came into the last election,
Speaker 5: they campaigned in the last election with promises to overhaul
Speaker 5: environmental legislation, to introduce a national environmental agency. What we've
Speaker 5: seen in Western Australia is a lot of pushback against
Speaker 5: any new burdens of regulation, not only from the resources industry,
Speaker 5: but absolutely from companies developing new minds, new gas export plans,
Speaker 5: even companies who are looking to establish new green manufacturing sites.
Speaker 5: What they don't want is an additional burden of environmental legislation.
Speaker 5: And what we saw in that Western Australia poll very
Speaker 5: successfully lobbied the local the WA labor government to you
Speaker 5: not to back new restrictions.
Speaker 4: So yeah, quite.
Speaker 5: Interesting in both cases to see how that could inform
Speaker 5: the national debate and national policy.
Speaker 2: And certainly what happens in the Hunter electorate. You know
Speaker 2: in a couple of weeks time now you briefly touched
Speaker 2: on targets earlier, David, I want to pick up on
Speaker 2: that a little bit. Now, Australia is regarded as you know,
Speaker 2: somewhat of a global tess case for the energy transition,
Speaker 2: and it does in turn attract investment and attention from
Speaker 2: all over the place. Right, what is the actual status
Speaker 2: of Australia's energy transition? Are we actually on track to
Speaker 2: hit targets to reduce greenhouse gases?
Speaker 5: It's one of those scenarios where you can probably make
Speaker 5: an argument either way, So I think the truth is
Speaker 5: it's debatable.
Speaker 4: So whremissions in the year to.
Speaker 5: Last March were They were about twenty eight point two
Speaker 5: percent below June two thousand and five levels. That's the
Speaker 5: level that we're looking at. That's the baseline for the
Speaker 5: targets that the existing government have outlined, and again that
Speaker 5: is to make a forty three percent reduction by twenty thirty,
Speaker 5: so still somewhere to go. The pace at which reductions
Speaker 5: are being made is you know, charitably about on track.
Speaker 5: I think realistically probably a little too slow. And there
Speaker 5: are also other debates around what's included and what's excluded
Speaker 5: when you come to countermissions. You know, if we think
Speaker 5: about the policy settings, there's a there's a nonprofit globally
Speaker 5: that sort of grades countries climate policies and their targets
Speaker 5: climate Action Tracker, and it currently sees Australia's policy settings
Speaker 5: and Australia's targets as insufficient. The one area that it
Speaker 5: identifies chiefly is there's a lot of reliance on future
Speaker 5: technologies that are yet to have been mercialized and developed,
Speaker 5: and not a lot of policy on phasing out things
Speaker 5: like coll exports, gas exports, the thing that are huge
Speaker 5: drivers of export earnings.
Speaker 2: So it's a little bit chicken and egg like, we've
Speaker 2: got to have the technology to do it, and we've
Speaker 2: got to get the technology first and agree how we're
Speaker 2: going to do that and also finance it. I think
Speaker 2: one thing recently that's also been quite profound is the
Speaker 2: responsibility for domestic policy most certainly, but also Australia's place
Speaker 2: within the region. We had some quite pointed comments from
Speaker 2: the President of Palao just this month on Australia as
Speaker 2: a sort of a big brother of the Pacific, wanting
Speaker 2: it to take more of a leadership role of this
Speaker 2: topic in the region. Let's take a quick listen.
Speaker 6: We are part of the Pacific family. We need to
Speaker 6: work together to solve problems and it's not a joke.
Speaker 6: Climate change is a reality and it's something that we
Speaker 6: face every day and we need Australia support and we're
Speaker 6: ready to work with whoever is in government to attack
Speaker 6: all these problems. And it's so important that the Australian
Speaker 6: people understand that it's their leadership should take a leadership
Speaker 6: role in the Pacific and work with us to meet
Speaker 6: the challenges that we have ahead of us.
Speaker 2: David, it is quite a tense time in the Pacific,
Speaker 2: with China fighting for influence in the region. Is Australia
Speaker 2: doing enough fun climate change to support its specific neighbors.
Speaker 5: I think if you ask and we heard, of course
Speaker 5: they're from power. If you ask a lot of Pacific nations,
Speaker 5: the answer would be no. But then if we think
Speaker 5: back to the time of the last election, at that moment,
Speaker 5: Australia was regarded on the sort of international scene and
Speaker 5: in terms of climate diplomacy as a complete outlier. Australia
Speaker 5: had seeded, you know, a lot of its influence on
Speaker 5: the global stage, and you know, the government has spent
Speaker 5: quite a lot of time trying to rebuild that trust
Speaker 5: and trying to really reassert itself in just the global
Speaker 5: process of supporting the International Approach to Climate Act. But
Speaker 5: you know, the Pacific nations clearly are in a tough
Speaker 5: spot and I think what we saw at the most
Speaker 5: recent Global Climate talks in Azerbaijan last year was a
Speaker 5: continued sense of disappointment. Developing countries came into that meeting
Speaker 5: asking rich countries for you know, a commitment to direct
Speaker 5: about a trillion dollars you know, in climate financing to
Speaker 5: the emerging world. What they got was a commitment for
Speaker 5: three hundred billion, so a lot less than expected. Australia
Speaker 5: is one of those developed nations that is being asked
Speaker 5: to do more and so you know, quite rightly, I
Speaker 5: think the Pacific, not only Australia, but Australia because of
Speaker 5: its role in the region, they are asking Australia to
Speaker 5: step up.
Speaker 2: When we come back, let's lens in and consider the
Speaker 2: almighty dollar, how our investors in renewables approaching the election
Speaker 2: and what do they want to see from Messrs Albanzi
Speaker 2: and Dutton. You're listening to the Bloomberg Australia Podcast and
Speaker 2: welcome back to the Bloomberg Australia Podcast. You're here with
Speaker 2: me Rebecca Jones, and I'm talking all things climate with
Speaker 2: Bloomberg's APEC, head of ESG and green coverage, my mate
Speaker 2: David Stringer. David, let's talk about money. Has the ALP
Speaker 2: seen an increase in investments in renewables over the last
Speaker 2: three years and how are those investors approaching this election?
Speaker 5: Well, there's nothing I like better than pulling up charts
Speaker 5: of energy transition investment, you know, and taking a look
Speaker 5: at what's actually happening on the ground, where is money flowing.
Speaker 5: And I think if you ask most voters, I think
Speaker 5: their assumption would be that under an Albanzy government, what
Speaker 5: we would have seen is a continued flow of more investment.
Speaker 5: In truth, that's not the case. If we look at
Speaker 5: total energy.
Speaker 4: Transition investment, so that's the power system.
Speaker 5: That's clean transport, you know, that's clean agriculture, that actually
Speaker 5: fell about five percent last year to just less than
Speaker 5: twenty three billion.
Speaker 4: That's even though what we.
Speaker 5: Are seeing and what we did see last year is
Speaker 5: a sort of rebound in investment into renewables, into clean energy.
Speaker 5: We also saw a little bit more spending on electrified transport,
Speaker 5: but in total it fell again. And if we think
Speaker 5: the total spending that our colleagues at Bloomberg NF Research
Speaker 5: is they forecast that between now and twenty fifty, you know,
Speaker 5: Australia is going to need to spend about two point
Speaker 5: four trillion US dollars just on energy alone. How quickly
Speaker 5: that investment ramps up is really crucial.
Speaker 2: I want to talk to you about a national obsession. Well,
Speaker 2: I mean it certainly to me, it feels like it's
Speaker 2: a bit of an obsession, and that is the adoption
Speaker 2: of solar, something that's done quite well. How is that
Speaker 2: transfer forming the country's energy system? And is it a
Speaker 2: trend that we think will continue in the same fashion.
Speaker 5: I think if you talk to experts on energy markets,
Speaker 5: it's hard. It's hard to overstate how transformative the adoption
Speaker 5: of solar in Australia has been.
Speaker 4: If we think there's been enough.
Speaker 5: Solar installed on rooftops across Australia to really account for
Speaker 5: one in every three house, astonishing right. And what's really
Speaker 5: interesting is we're not necessarily talking about urban homes in
Speaker 5: places like Melbourne, Sydney or Brisbane. To a large extent,
Speaker 5: these are solar panels that have been installed in rural
Speaker 5: community and in large numbers, So how's that changed the
Speaker 5: energy signel quite radically. What it means is that right
Speaker 5: now there's often an excess of power being generated during
Speaker 5: the middle of the day the suns that it's height
Speaker 5: when we're getting the most radiation on those panels, And
Speaker 5: in a sense, the solar sector in Australia has kind
Speaker 5: of been a victim of its own success. And in fact,
Speaker 5: a colleagues that BNF their analysis tells them is that
Speaker 5: for residential solace, that we think adoption peaked in twenty
Speaker 5: twenty one and as being in a slow decline since
Speaker 5: then because you know, rebates and incentives have come off,
Speaker 5: We've seen, you know, the value of sending excess power
Speaker 5: to the grid become lower and lower because basically, how
Speaker 5: is worthless in the middle of the day now because
Speaker 5: there is so much solar so little demand, that the
Speaker 5: power itself becomes cheaper. One of the proposals we've heard
Speaker 5: in this campaign from Labor is a policy to subsidize
Speaker 5: household battery. They want to see more people pair up
Speaker 5: their rooftop solar systems with storage batteries that allows people
Speaker 5: to use it when it's needed. It sees less wastage,
Speaker 5: and you know that's a potential policy that could help
Speaker 5: to some degree extend the solar.
Speaker 2: So I was right. Then solar panels are everywhere and
Speaker 2: we are obsessed with them. It is like a really
Speaker 2: well known manifestation of renewable energy, right. You know, you
Speaker 2: go to Waikia, you see the solar panels on the roof.
Speaker 2: Go and have a look at my parents beach house.
Speaker 2: It's covered in them. David, what when we're thinking about
Speaker 2: investments in renewables, certainly extending beyond solar panels, what other
Speaker 2: things are we're needing investment in, for one, And what
Speaker 2: are some of the proposals that both of the parties
Speaker 2: are putting forward in this campaign?
Speaker 5: Well quite, I mean, so if we think about rooftop solar,
Speaker 5: you know, as a sector that added about three gigawatts
Speaker 5: last year, what's that. Well, that's sort of roughly equivalent
Speaker 5: about three coal fired power stations.
Speaker 4: That's not enough.
Speaker 5: What we're really focused on is large scale renewables projects,
Speaker 5: things with the sort of size and scale that can
Speaker 5: actually help Australia replace those big fossil fuel sites. And
Speaker 5: that requires a lot of investment, clearly, you know, and
Speaker 5: as we said, it's been a very complex picture in
Speaker 5: the past few years under the Albanese government. If we
Speaker 5: zero in on renewable energy investment, you can really see,
Speaker 5: even looking at a chart, you can see when people
Speaker 5: talk about investor uncertainty and people being worried about policy change,
Speaker 5: it's there in the sort of it's there in a
Speaker 5: bar chart. You can see, you know, you can see
Speaker 5: investment yo yoing from year to year. And so what
Speaker 5: we had was between sort of twenty eighteen and twenty
Speaker 5: twenty one, investment in these large scale renewable projects really created,
Speaker 5: rebounded and then actually fell sharply again. Twenty twenty three,
Speaker 5: rebounded last year, and a lot of that is down
Speaker 5: to a policy the Labor government brought in, the Capacity
Speaker 5: Investment Scheme. Now it sounds complicated, but you know, put
Speaker 5: very simply kind of.
Speaker 4: What it does.
Speaker 5: It sets a flaw a revenue floor for a renewable project.
Speaker 5: The project earns less than expected, the government meets some
Speaker 5: of the differentrans and similarly, there's like a revenue ceiling.
Speaker 5: If it does better than expected, you're going to pay
Speaker 5: some of that access, right, got it. It helps investors
Speaker 5: have certainty when they're thinking about these multi billion dollar investment.
Speaker 5: What's interesting is the Liberal parties plan for that scheme
Speaker 5: is to add natural gas. That's opposed by labor who
Speaker 5: say that will deter the purpose of the scheme, which
Speaker 5: is to encourage private investment in wind, in solar, in
Speaker 5: renewable and its so yeah, rooftops we're seeing potentially start
Speaker 5: to peter out and sortlatter. What the real focus is,
Speaker 5: what's the direction of those really big large scale renewal I.
Speaker 2: Want to ask you about another thing that Australians love
Speaker 2: and that we think about all the time, and that
Speaker 2: is driving our cars. Power isn't the only sector crucial
Speaker 2: to Australia's decarbonization, obviously, and we have moved on ILAC
Speaker 2: to think from Scott Morrison's famous claim that electric vehicles
Speaker 2: are going to end the week. But is there a
Speaker 2: consensus among the parties around phasing out gas guzzling cars
Speaker 2: and utes. What does the data tell us?
Speaker 5: You know, Australia is still seen as something of a
Speaker 5: laggard on adoption of electric vehicles, which kind of surprises
Speaker 5: me in a way because and you know this as well,
Speaker 5: that any time we're out on a street here in Melbourne,
Speaker 5: the number of Tesla's increasingly, the number of bid cars
Speaker 5: you know that we see, never mind all of the
Speaker 5: other myriad of electric models that are available now that
Speaker 5: anecdotal evidence would seem to suggest that things are really
Speaker 5: taking off. What the numbers tell us is that they're not.
Speaker 5: I think they were just over around about one hundred
Speaker 5: and fourteen thousand new electric vehicles sold last year compared
Speaker 5: to about one hundred thousand in twenty twenty three, so
Speaker 5: an increase, but not the kinds of dramatic jumps we're seeing.
Speaker 5: Another jurisdiction.
Speaker 4: Part of that is policy, and what.
Speaker 5: We're seeing in this election, although it hasn't featured massively,
Speaker 5: what we've seen from the Liberal Party is an indication
Speaker 5: that they would effectively sort of weaken the New Vehicle
Speaker 5: Efficiency that's a set of policies that helps encourage adoption
Speaker 5: of lower missions, cleaner, more efficient vehicle. The concern from
Speaker 5: advocates of evs is that by weakening that kind of
Speaker 5: policy you effectively open the Australian market up for foreign
Speaker 5: automakers to dump their dirtier, less efficient cars in this march,
Speaker 5: rather than foster courage.
Speaker 2: Or evs to be sold so we have two major
Speaker 2: parties aligned on the fact that we need to move
Speaker 2: to net zero, but with different ideas on how to
Speaker 2: get there. Our position in the Pacific, as let's face it,
Speaker 2: the biggest player is under even more scrutiny from our
Speaker 2: smaller neighbors, and the way we get investment in renewables
Speaker 2: is something both parties disagree on. The Libs and on
Speaker 2: one side want to include natural gas in the investment scheme.
Speaker 2: Labour says you are missing the point. So who said
Speaker 2: climate wasn't on the agenda? David Stringer, thanks for your
Speaker 2: time today.
Speaker 4: Thanks great to be here back.
Speaker 2: And thank you for listening to the Bloomberg Australia podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm Rebecca Jones. This episode was recorded on the traditional
Speaker 2: lands of the Wilwandery people of the Coula Nation. It
Speaker 2: was produced by Paul Allen and edited by Ainsley Chandler
Speaker 2: and Chris Burke. Don't forget to follow and review the
Speaker 2: show wherever you get your podcasts, and sign up for
Speaker 2: Bloomberg's free daily Newssetter Australia Briefing. Go to Bloomberg dot
Speaker 2: com to subscribe.