1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology with 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: tex Stole from how stuff works dot com. Hello again, everyone, 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 1: Welcome to tex stuff. My name is Chris Poette and 5 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: I am an editor here at how stuff works dot Com. 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: Across from me, as he usually is, is senior writer 7 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. Did you hear about Kim? Did she kiss 8 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: him and cry? Did he pin the pin on? Or 9 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 1: was he too shy? Alright, wow, I don't know that one. 10 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: I'll tell you later. Al Right, it relates to what 11 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about today. I yes, the telephone, yes, 12 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: not just the telephone system though, but how to exploit 13 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: it for your own nefarious means, well, not necessarily nefarious. 14 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: We're talking about phone freaking, yes, which actually when it 15 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: started out, was not necessarily meant as a way of 16 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: exploiting the phone system. Was more of a way of 17 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: exploring it. Yes, And would you believe, actually you would, 18 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: But would you, the listener believe that at one point 19 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: in the United States you could make free long distance 20 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: calls with the help of a toy whistle from a 21 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: serial box. I don't believe it, except that I know 22 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: that that's true because Draper did it. Yes, indeed, So 23 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about what led to phone freaking. 24 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: So in the old and old and olden days of 25 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: the telephone system, which really weren't that old when you 26 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: think about it. But you know, you know, when we're talking, 27 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: we're not talking about geologic time periods here. Okay, all right, 28 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: in the early part of the twentieth century, when the 29 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: phone system was a new and beautiful thing. Um, you 30 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: would you would normally connect your calls by connecting to 31 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: an operator who would complete the circuit to whatever your 32 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: destination call was going to be, and actually go through 33 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: several operators. In fact, yeah, I think even our probably 34 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: even our youngest list nurse have seen some TV show 35 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: or movie where they have the operators sitting with the 36 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: headphones on in front of a giant switchboard, literally a 37 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: giant switchboard where they plugged in cables to route calls. 38 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: I mean that that image is sort of iconic, right, 39 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: So that that was the manual way of routing a 40 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: call through the system so that you could get hold 41 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: of whoever it was, whoever it was you were trying to, uh, 42 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: speak to um. Now. Eventually we managed to advance technology 43 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: to the point where we could automate the system, and 44 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: by automating the system, some interesting things started to pop up. 45 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: For one thing, people who were interested in electronics and 46 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: puzzles and that kind of thing sort of looked at 47 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: the phone system as a big challenge figuring out how 48 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: it worked from the outside. Yeah. Actually we call these 49 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 1: people hackers. And not because you know that that's we'll 50 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: get into the connotations of that and more deeply in 51 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: a few minutes. But um, people who like to take 52 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: things part and see what they can do with them 53 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: and employ it for other purposes. Um. Those those people, 54 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: often especially now call themselves hackers. And uh, you know, 55 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: it could be used just because you're interested in the 56 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: technology and what lies behind it and what you can 57 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: do with it. Um. But unfortunately some people also use that, 58 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: uh you know, for their own nefarious purposes. And uh, 59 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: the the word hacker has taken on that kind of 60 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: negative connotation. Yeah. What's interesting is that I think you 61 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: can kind of draw parallels between phone freaking, the history 62 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: of phone freaking, and the history of computer hacking. Oh. 63 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: I can definitely draw those parallels because I read about 64 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: that in researching this podcast. Right, It's it's not just 65 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: that some phone freakers, some very prominent ones, switched from 66 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: phone freaking to computer hacking, but also that the the 67 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: process in which the uh the the whole concept of 68 00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: freaking started to leak into a larger audience um meant 69 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: that you suddenly had people who were using it to 70 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: take advantage of the system. Just as with the earliest hackers, 71 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: they weren't necessarily interested in in hacking computers for their 72 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: own personal gain. They were interested in learning more about 73 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: the system, how it works, and how you know to 74 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: get around certain things, and and maybe even ultimately how 75 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,799 Speaker 1: to improve the system. And then later as more people 76 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: got interested in hacking, they were getting interested in it 77 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 1: in the term of like, how can I make this 78 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 1: work for me? So both freaking and hacking have kind 79 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 1: of undergone that sort of that that evolution where it 80 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: started with people who are just curious, and it ultimately 81 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: lead to people who are like, how can I how 82 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: can I leverage my my knowledge of the system to 83 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: get something that I'm not entitled to Well, according to 84 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: UH Too Cyberpunk, which is a book by Katie Hafner 85 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: and John Markoff, UM, the people who were really into 86 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: phone freaking, UM, including people like Kevin Mitnick, who's you know, 87 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 1: quite famous computer hacker. UM. Part of it stemmed directly 88 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: from phone freaking. Like, as things changed and and the 89 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: system became more computerized, they wanted to continue digging into 90 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: the telephone system, so they began learning how to manipulate 91 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: the computers that ran the telephone system. So you know, 92 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: there is a direct It was basically a direct move 93 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: from one to the other. UM. And then of course 94 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: computers became used for other things. And so let's start 95 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: back all the way back to nineteen sixty one, All right, 96 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty ones, when we first kind of know that 97 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: people were starting to play around with the phone system 98 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: and find interesting ways to to manipulate it. UM. Back then, 99 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 1: they weren't known as phone freaks. They had they had 100 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: really no term at all. For one thing, they were 101 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: mostly individuals or maybe a couple of people who knew 102 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: each other. UM. But there was no like organized group. 103 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: There were no newsletter. All of that would come later. 104 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: It wasn't until nineteen sixty three when an m I 105 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: t issue of the Tech that was their their newsletter 106 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: came out. It was their November twenty issue. Actually, uh, 107 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: the the author of that piece said, called them, uh hackers, 108 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: telephone hackers. Okay, so that's when we first get the 109 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: hacker term. And then a few years later, actually quite 110 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: a few years later, Ron Rosenbaum in Esquire in ninete 111 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: coined the term phone freaks to describe these people. So 112 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: exactly what were these people doing. Well, for one thing, 113 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: they were getting hold of any kind of technical manuals 114 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: they could possibly find that would explain the phone system. 115 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: And then they were kind of exploring it because the 116 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: phone system was a very mysterious thing. Now, if you 117 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: just looked at it from a surface level, you thought, oh, well, 118 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: I've got a phone ideal, these numbers, and then I'm 119 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: connected to the person on the other end. The phone 120 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: freaks were interested with how does that work? How is 121 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 1: it that when you pick up the phone and you 122 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: dial these numbers that this gets routed to this specific person. 123 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: And they knew that the phone companies had a whole 124 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: series of secret signals that they would use behind the 125 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: scenes to keep things running. And they were wondering, what 126 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: are these secret signals and what do they do? Yeah, 127 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: what was going on in between, say the switchboards that 128 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: we spoke of earlier, and the earlier forms of automation 129 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: before it got so computerized in the nineties. Uh, and 130 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: probably a little bit before that, I'm guessing, um is 131 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: everything was sound based. Um, so there were a lot 132 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: of different ways to if you if you knew what 133 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: you were doing and could replicate the right pitch of 134 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: sound into a phone microphone, then you could take control 135 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: of certain aspects of the system. So it one. It 136 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: was one of those things where it became a a 137 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: challenge to figure out what these other tones were and 138 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: how they how they worked, and what you could do 139 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: with them. Yeah, this kind of leads us to Joe 140 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: and grass Syria Ingressia. I'm sorry I mispronounced that last name. Ingressia. Yes, 141 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: the whistler. So Joe was he was a curious kid. 142 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: Um he he was, Um, well, he's a blind kid. 143 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: He was like seven years old when he when he 144 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: first found out. One of the things he liked to do, 145 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 1: because Joe is a wild and crazy kid back then, 146 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: was he like to listen to automated messages for unconnected 147 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: phone lines. He just thought that was kind of cool. 148 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: He would he would dial number and listen to it 149 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: and listen to the connection. And according to Joe, one 150 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: time he was listening and he was sort of whistling 151 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: to himself as he was listening to this this recorded message, 152 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: and the recording message stopped, and he thought, well, why 153 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: did the message stop? So eventually he actually called eight 154 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: and T and said, hey, I want to know that. 155 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: I want to know why this happens when I'm whistling 156 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 1: into the phone. Why does this recording stop? And the 157 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: engineer on the other end of the line made a 158 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: colossal mistake. The engineer explained that the phone system used 159 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: a twenty six hundred hurts tone to operate on on 160 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: the trunk line um and that if you created this tone, 161 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: it was essentially a message to the trunk line that 162 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: the call had ended, and it would it would end, 163 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: it would stop the call. Joe figured out from this 164 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: that if he could if he could whistle twenty six 165 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: hurts frequency, which he could because he had perfect pitch 166 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: hundred hurts. I'm sorry, did I miss It was just 167 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: one of those things twenty hurts. So yeah, if he 168 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: if he could whistle that perfectly, he could signal to 169 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: this trunk line that a phone call had ended, and 170 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: if he then whistled at that same frequency a certain 171 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:04,559 Speaker 1: number of times, could theoretically dial a number um and 172 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: and make a free long distance phone call. Now, the 173 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: way this had to work was you couldn't just call 174 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: any number and whistle in and have it work. Um. 175 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: It all depended on the way the phone systems were 176 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: constructed regionally. You had to actually first make a long 177 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 1: distance call for this to work. But you can make 178 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: a long distance call to a winning a hundred numbers, 179 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: so you're not getting a charge. So you make that 180 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: one a hundred number call, you get connected, uh, and 181 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: then you make the whistling noise which tells the trunk line, hey, 182 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: this call is over, so you're still connected through to 183 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,079 Speaker 1: the trunk and then you whistle again to dial whatever 184 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: number it is, and then uh, you get connected to 185 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: your long distance call for free. Yes, not everyone could 186 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: do this on their own. No, but but John Draper 187 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: figured out a way to do it. Yeah, John Draper, 188 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: he has an interest sting nickname too. You got Joe 189 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: who was the whistler? What was the Draper's nickname? That 190 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: would be Captain Crunch And why would his nickname be 191 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: Captain Crunch. We know. I saw on TV a few 192 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: years ago this this person who invented all the different 193 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: kinds of little toys and gadgets and stuff that they 194 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: would throw in cereal boxes, little plastic goodies that they 195 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 1: would throw in their tops, and and uh jack's and whistles. 196 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: And as it turns out that draper found out that 197 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: this little uh actually I've seen pictures of it looks 198 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:36,079 Speaker 1: sort of like a Boson's pipe. Yeah, hey, that was good. 199 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 1: Do you think we could take over the phone lines anyway? 200 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: It turns more, it turns out that when you when 201 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: you blew through this whistle, it produced a pitch of 202 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: oh hurts. Yeah, you had to cover one of the 203 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: there were two holes that would generate the sound. If 204 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: you covered one of the two, you could generate hurts. 205 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: I think the other one was if you covered the 206 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: other one, I'd have to look it up now. And 207 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: if you covered both, you could wistle to dogs, because 208 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: he would make a noise that no human could hear. 209 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: But but yeah, he dug that plastic whistle out of 210 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: you know, a cereal box. You know, since his nickname 211 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: was Captain Crunch, you could guess that it was probably 212 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: out of a box of prudy pebbles, right, honestly, just so. 213 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: But you want to understand he actually found out that 214 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: it made the right tone, not on his own, but 215 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: because he was in a conversation with Joe the Whistler, 216 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: and it was through speaking with him that he found 217 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: out that this this little whistle could do the same 218 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: thing that Joe could do naturally. So obviously the Captain 219 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: Crunch whistles became a sought after item by phone freaks, 220 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: people who are interested in in, like I said, manipulating 221 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 1: the phone system and really finding out how it worked 222 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: and listening to these beefs and clicks and wondering, okay, 223 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: well how can I make this to kind of navigate 224 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: my way through the system. So not not everyone used them, 225 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: but they became kind of a status symbol, like if 226 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: you owned one, you were part of the twenty s club, 227 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: you know. I actually saw some for sale on eBay, 228 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: so you can you can still get hold of them, 229 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: and they're not terribly expensive. They're not really useful either. 230 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 1: That's the thing is at this point, they're just sort 231 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: of a collector's item, right, They're not useful in in 232 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 1: phone circles because the phone system is totally different now 233 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: than what it was back then. But at any rate, 234 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: so you started seeing a culture of these people start up. 235 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: Whereas all these folks who are who are finding out 236 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 1: ways to manipulate the phone system and not since not 237 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: everyone could get hold of a Captain crunch whistle or 238 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: make the whistle on their own, uh, they had to 239 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: find or create devices that could do it for them. Also, 240 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:44,199 Speaker 1: we should mention that the whistling technique, this hurts technique 241 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: only worked on single frequency phone systems, and the phone 242 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: systems at that time we're undergoing a transformation where a 243 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 1: lot of them were switching to multiple multiple frequency systems, 244 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: which meant that you would have too frequencies play at 245 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: the same time. I see whistle sophisticated right, Whistling to 246 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: frequencies at the same time not an easy task to 247 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: do so, um, so you had to start creating a 248 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: system device that could do this for you. And that's 249 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 1: where the blue box came from. Yes, yes, I would 250 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: like to point out that everybody, uh you know, recently, everybody, 251 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: lots and lots of people recently have been picking on 252 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: people who have I devices the iPhone, the iPad, because 253 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: you know, they want to be just like everybody else 254 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: and they want to be part of the crowd. Well, 255 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: as it turns out, the people at Apple have not 256 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: always been as uh, you know, part of the mainstream 257 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: culture because two of the people who were involved early 258 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: in the blue box phenomenon were people who are making 259 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: them to sell to other people at college. And those 260 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: people would be Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniac, the founders 261 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: of Apple. And I think that is hilarious. Actually, Steve 262 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: woznia acts blue boxes in the Computer History Museum. You 263 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: can see hit the one that the first one he built. 264 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: I just think that's very funny. But now now that 265 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: you know every you know, lots and lots and lots 266 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: of people have these devices. And the people who started 267 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: the company started out as counterculture hackers. But the blue 268 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: box is not named because it is blue. In fact, 269 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: it could be pretty much any size or any color. 270 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: It has nothing to do with that. It's just a 271 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: nickname that it got. Yeah, and it it. It wouldn't 272 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: have been possible to make this, or at least it 273 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: would have let me backtrack, I won't say it wouldn't 274 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: have been possible. It would have been exceptionally difficult to 275 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: make this if it weren't for the fact that once 276 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: again a telephone company made a massive error in judgment, 277 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: which was in this case it was the Bell System 278 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: Technical Journal, which released the information of what frequencies each 279 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: number needed now in order to to dial them. Yeah. No, normal, 280 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: normally people wouldn't be looking for that kind of information. 281 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: But the kinds of people who would be into phone 282 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: freaking I would know exactly where to find that kind 283 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: of information, and they would be already monitoring those journals 284 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: because they were interested in how the phone system work. Right, 285 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: So you look at this journal and you find out that, 286 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: let's see, I think I even have an example here, 287 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: like the the number UM four, for example, had two tones, 288 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: all of them did. One of them was in the 289 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: seven hundred hurts frequency and the other was hurts frequency. 290 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: So you had to generate both of those in order 291 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: to dial a four. So once you know that, once 292 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: you know which frequencies will generate, which you know won't 293 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: translate to which numbers, you could create a device that 294 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: when you when you input the number, it would make 295 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: that noise. You connect that to phone and suddenly you 296 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: can make these long distance phone calls again, just like 297 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: Joe was doing by whistling in the receiver. Um. And 298 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: it was you know, it was a heck of a thing, man. 299 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: I mean, you could you could uh make joke prank 300 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: phone calls. I heard of one. I don't know the story, 301 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: maybe apocryphal, um, but I heard one about how the 302 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: wa was made a certain prank phone call to uh 303 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: a particularly high ranking member of the Catholic Church, in fact, 304 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 1: the highest He supposedly prank called the Pope and impersonated 305 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: Henry Kissinger. Yeah. I had actually heard that story to 306 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: the Pope. He was asleep and so he didn't He 307 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: did not come to the phone. He said, I'll call 308 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: Hank back later. Um. That was lovely. We're gonna get 309 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: mail mail about that or comments on Facebook, or because 310 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: I called Henry Kissinger Hank, Come on people. Um. But 311 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: there were other kinds of boxes too. There were red 312 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:43,719 Speaker 1: boxes and beige boxes and black boxes, and they all 313 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: did something different. Red boxes theoretically allow you to make 314 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: free pay phone calls. Yeah. The thing about the red 315 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 1: box was that it would generate a frequency, you would 316 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: replace a crystal within the dialer of the tell. Most 317 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: of these involved having to take apart a public phone 318 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: to some extent um or sometimes a regular phone depended 319 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: on the thing. But this was a public phone. You 320 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: go to a pay phone, you take it apart. You 321 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: replaced the the crystal within the dialer system with a 322 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: different crystal that would resonate at a higher frequency. And 323 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: and it it would it would simulate the sound of 324 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: a quarter going into the pay phone. Yes, so you 325 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: were simulating as if you were feeding change into the payphone. 326 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: And you could so your calls technically weren't quote unquote 327 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: free because as far as the machine could tell, you 328 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: were actually feeding coins into it. But but you were 329 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: just simulating that. Um. Yeah, and and and here I 330 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 1: am going to teach some of our younger listeners. At 331 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:47,160 Speaker 1: one point there were phones on every corner and you 332 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 1: had to put money into them to make a call. So, 333 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 1: you know, because no one had cell phones, I'm just 334 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: eating they weren't on every corner. But you know what, 335 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: you don't see them anymore because of the rise of 336 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,199 Speaker 1: cell phones. This is something that would be Yeah, and 337 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: then there are some in some places, but not nearly 338 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: as many as there used to be right right, Yeah, 339 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: this is something that may be unfamiliar to people. Honestly, 340 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: they may not realize that there were payphones so frequently available, 341 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: and you you know, it would be difficult, I would imagine, 342 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: to install a red box because you'd have to do 343 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: it when people weren't looking, right, So you'd have to 344 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,640 Speaker 1: you in there payphone that's in a fairly remote location. 345 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: Although there there were plenty of them in remote locations 346 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: and there still are. Yeah. Um, and again these these 347 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 1: systems won't work with that anymore because the whole basis 348 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: for the phone network is different now. In fact, phone 349 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: freaking in general has really shifted. Now it's no longer 350 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: really about finding ways to make free long distance phone calls, 351 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 1: because that's not as not nearly as big a deal 352 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: as it used to be. No, No, as a matter 353 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: of fact, as as time went on, at least according 354 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 1: to uh Halfner and Markoff's book, Um, you know, when 355 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,360 Speaker 1: the systems involved into computer technology, you had a couple 356 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: of things going on. You did have hackers looking to 357 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 1: hack computer networks because they were interested in learning more 358 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: about them and sometimes for other purposes. But one thing 359 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: that people were doing, they were looking to replicate m 360 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: C I UM, which was I think one of the 361 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: baby bells and is now part of it. May I 362 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: may be wrong on that. Anyway, it was an independent 363 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: phone company and UH UM they were they had calling 364 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 1: cards UM, and what the phone hackers were doing at 365 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: that point was trying to find ways to replicate UH 366 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: m CI calling card numbers. And they would basically call 367 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 1: an m C I UH network and enter numbers with 368 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: their computer and when they found one that worked, they 369 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: would use that to make free phone calls. But it 370 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: was a different way of doing it than manipulating the 371 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: phone system itself. It was really manipulating the payment system. 372 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: I would say more than more than that. UM. But 373 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: by the mid nineteen seventies, according to the the aforementioned book, 374 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: UM A T N T said UH or they were losing. 375 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: The company was losing approximately thirty million dollars a year 376 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: to UH to fraudulent phone calls. And UM I just 377 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 1: picked nineteen seventy five is a year plugged it into 378 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: wall from Alpha. UH thirty million dollars in nineteen seventy 379 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: five would be about a hundred and twenty point six 380 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: million dollars in two thousand ten. UM so that's you know, 381 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: not sizeable, but it's certainly not a lot. They certainly 382 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: don't want to lose that money. Um. And apparently professional, 383 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: professional white color uh people were using these techniques to 384 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: I mean, when we're past the era of that the hacker, 385 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: you know, being interested in the network and taking over. 386 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: These are people who you know, maybe for maybe they 387 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: were just trying to get free phone calls from themselves. 388 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: Maybe they were small businesses trying to find ways to 389 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: avoid paying long distance charges. Um. You know. So basically 390 00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: that had a lot to do with why Bell Labs 391 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 1: um basically found ways to scan the network for things 392 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,919 Speaker 1: like black boxes. Black boxes allowed you to hook up 393 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: you hook it up to your own phone and when 394 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: people would call you, um, it would basically nullify the 395 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: charges for the person on the other end making the 396 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: phone call, but a scanner would pick up on that 397 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: on the call, so you'd have to cut it short 398 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 1: to avoid being detected by the scanners on the network. 399 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 1: And basically they started finding people who were doing these 400 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: things and prosecuting them, and they got quite a few 401 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 1: of them. Captain Crunch got caught, yep, but it did 402 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: it did spawn a lot of the things that I 403 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: had no idea about. Like Abby Hoffman, remember him, the 404 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: political activist. UM. He started a group with a guy 405 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: named Al Bell apparently no relation to Alexander Graham. I 406 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: don't know, maybe so anyway, it was called a Youth 407 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: International Party Line YEP. And uh, basically the idea of 408 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: being that once you liberated communication UM from the man, 409 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: you'd be able to give people more control over it. 410 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: But Al really wasn't interested in the political side of things. UM. 411 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: He he broke off from the group and called called 412 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 1: a new group, the Technical Assistance Program TAP, which you 413 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: probably ran into. And uh, they published a lot of 414 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: the material from a T and T S Technical manuals 415 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: UM and they had more than people subscribed by n UM, 416 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 1: one of whom, apparently, according according again to the Halfner 417 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: and Markoff book, apparently, uh, this woman had subscribed not 418 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: because she was interested in phone freaking, but because she 419 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,239 Speaker 1: just wanted to stick it to the phone company. So 420 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,120 Speaker 1: she's like, anything you guys can do to to uh, 421 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: you know, subvert these guys, go ahead and do it. 422 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: Here's my money. Yeah. There that that did become an issue. 423 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: That and now we're going from beyond the exploration to 424 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: either personal gain or political gain, um, or you know, 425 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 1: some sort of anarchy kind of thing going on on. 426 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: They published numbers to Buckingham Palace in the White House, 427 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 1: they told you how to pick locks and use slugs 428 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: and vending machines. It's kind of like the anarchist cookbook types. Yeah, definitely, 429 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: so yeah, it's it's it's that was definitely kind of 430 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: a child of the time. You know, we're talking about 431 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: the whole Vietnam era as well. So um, yeah, you know, 432 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,479 Speaker 1: you've got this mistrust in the government and corporations that 433 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: really started to peak in the seventies and uh, and 434 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: so that freaking became kind of a problem. But it 435 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: did start to shift because once the personal computer entered 436 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: the picture, a lot of the freaks, like uh, the 437 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: laws and jobs shifted their attention from from phones to 438 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: computers and it was a brand new system to learn 439 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: how to manipulate and exploit and all that kind of 440 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: good stuff. Um. Freaking did continue for a while, but 441 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: there was there. There were some pretty famous big crackdowns, 442 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: including one in the Do you hear about this one? 443 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: A T and T did this massive crackdown on freaks 444 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 1: because A T and T experienced a national wide long 445 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 1: distance service crash on Martin Luther King Junior day In 446 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 1: and day laid the blame uh for that crash on 447 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: on hackers and phone freaks. Now, whether or not there 448 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:34,880 Speaker 1: was actual legitimate h that was a legitimate excuse remains 449 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: a matter of debate. Hackers. A lot of hackers say, hey, 450 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: we weren't doing anything that would have led to this 451 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: big crash in it may be that you know, this 452 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: is a T and T S blunder, and there they've 453 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: chosen a very very convenient scapegoat. A T and T 454 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 1: of course would say, no, this is I mean, what 455 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: are they gonna do? Say, yep, it was us. I 456 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,239 Speaker 1: mean some of them would. I mean, some hackers, of 457 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: course take great pride in bringing down systems and we'll 458 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: brag about it. But other hackers will be like, WHOA, 459 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 1: I totally did not mean to hit the off switch. 460 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: I just wanted to look around. So that's still a 461 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 1: matter of debate about. I'm sure there are people who 462 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: do know the truth of what happened, but I am 463 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: not among them. Um well, it's kind of interesting too that. Uh, 464 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: if you've ever seen the magazine, you probably now know 465 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 1: where the name came from. The do um you know, 466 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 1: I do. I think they think of themselves as a 467 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: hackers magazine UM, and you know, things like things like 468 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: Make magazine you know, are for hackers, people who like 469 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: to take things apart and see what it is. So 470 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: I think it really the idea behind it still exists, 471 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: But there are a lot of people who are like 472 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: the very early phone freaks who who say, you know what, 473 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: there's this thing that somebody else came up with, and 474 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: I'm really interested in how, you know, how it works, 475 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: what makes it tick? You know, why does it work 476 00:26:58,520 --> 00:26:59,679 Speaker 1: the way it does, and what can I get it 477 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: to do that it's not supposed to do. They really 478 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 1: have no interested in, you know, taking advantage of the 479 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: system or making a statement, and you're like, yeah, you know, 480 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: I wanted to take it apart and see if I 481 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 1: can make it do something really cool. Right. This is 482 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: a philosophy that dates back ages. In fact, without without 483 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,160 Speaker 1: this kind of intense curiosity, you could argue that that 484 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: fields like architecture and engineering wouldn't be what they are today. 485 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: In fact, it just occurred to me that what we 486 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: should do in a future podcast is do an episode 487 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 1: called Leonardo da Vinci Renaissance Hacker. Hey, there you go, 488 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: because really that's what he was when you get down 489 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: to it. Um. Also, I want to point out that 490 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: m c I was not one of the baby Bells. 491 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: It was a competitor to the baby Bells. So I 492 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: looked that up. So sorry about that. And uh, yeah, 493 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 1: if you guys do some research into freaking, you'll find 494 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 1: some pretty crazy stories out there, including some fair fairly 495 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: cryptic terms and names of groups and stuff, because, uh, 496 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: like hackers, freakers often would would adopt a nickname or 497 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 1: have a nickname attributed to them, and uh, some of 498 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: them ended up getting into some pretty serious trouble, including 499 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: a group of freakers and hackers known as the four 500 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,159 Speaker 1: one four group the four fourteen Yes I heard them. 501 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: Well that that's named after a Milwaukee area code. That's 502 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: where they were based out of. So if you ever 503 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 1: wonder where the four or fourteen group's name came from, 504 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 1: it came from that. UM and they got they they 505 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 1: got into some big trouble when when uh, it was 506 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:29,640 Speaker 1: discovered that they had infiltrated around sixty different major computer 507 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: systems and including ones for like hospitals, and governments and 508 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: things like that. Yeah, yeah, it's uh, it's funny though, 509 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: because these skills do, uh do payoff in the long 510 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: run for people who you know, are interested in in 511 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: in getting into the nuts and bolts of what makes 512 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: things take um, including Whistler Whistler Joe, who ended up 513 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: working for a phone company because he just wanted to 514 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: uh he want that was one of the things he 515 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: really wanted to do in life. And uh, you know, 516 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: the phone company apparently went him tour the facilities of 517 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: this one operation, and he had a difficult time because 518 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: he had a reputation as a phone freak. But what 519 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: you know, once he got an opportunity to work for 520 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: the phone company, he had absolutely no he wanted to 521 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: mess with the technology. Well, the whole reason that he 522 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: would got into phone freaking in the first place was 523 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: because he found the phone system to be absolutely fascinating. 524 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: Yeah again, it wasn't It wasn't that he had some 525 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: some evil plan in mind or something. He just it 526 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: was it was a really cool system and he wanted 527 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: to know how it worked. You know. Even even Kevin Mitnick, 528 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: now you know, a very famous computer hacker and former 529 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: phone freak, h you know, he has his own security 530 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: consulting organization. Poor guy can't even get through an airport, 531 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: but he has a sown security consulting he h, poor guy. 532 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean he's he certainly knows a lot 533 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: about technology and security of technology, and uh so therefore 534 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: he's a very valuable person to have as a security consultant. 535 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: But you know, it's from taking things apart and manipulating things, 536 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: and well, the only way your reputation is someone who 537 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: knows these things and sign it out right. The only 538 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: the only way you can figure out how to keep 539 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: people out of a system is to know how to 540 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: infiltrate a system. Yes, so, yeah, a lot of these 541 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,479 Speaker 1: hackers have have joined the man in one way or another, 542 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,239 Speaker 1: and in some cases I think it's a lot more 543 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: lucrative than what they were doing. Yeah, well it's certainly 544 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: less risky. Yes, that's true. All right. Well, that that's 545 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: a great conversation on phone freaking. We're gonna wrap it up, guys. 546 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: If you have any suggestions on comments or comments or 547 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: anything like that, why don't you join our Facebook page 548 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: or follow us on Twitter. Let's know through there we're 549 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: getting a lot of our our suggestions through there's it's 550 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: ending up being a lot more efficient than email is actually, 551 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: um so if you want to use that, that would 552 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: be awesome. If you are determined to email us, you can. 553 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna stop you. Our address is tech stuff 554 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com and we will talk 555 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: to you again really soon. 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