Speaker 1: Carol Aired and Terrez Belovet are fan fiction ass names
Speaker 1: like as names, those are trying really hard, Like it
Speaker 1: feels like someone in the seventh grade wrote those names. Well,
Speaker 1: it also sounds like a mid century lesbian author came
Speaker 1: up with, which is what happened. I'm on a oh
Speaker 1: three now looking at Terres Carol fan fiction and let's see. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give the virgins a little tutorial on how
Speaker 1: to use a three. So what I'm gonna do is
Speaker 1: I'm going to look only for completed works, and then
Speaker 1: I'm going to sort by kudos, and we'll see what
Speaker 1: the most popular Carol fan fiction is. Okay, is called
Speaker 1: better than fiction? It's by simply Sally. Okay. Here's some
Speaker 1: of the tags fluff, angst, first time lesbian sex, romance,
Speaker 1: slow burn, age difference, librarians, smut, religious conflict, alcohol abuse,
Speaker 1: the slash alcoholism. Okay. Here's the synopsis. Life is a
Speaker 1: librarian in rural Alabama, was driving Terrez Belavet slowly insane,
Speaker 1: and then a new family from Vermont moved into town
Speaker 1: and everything changed when she meets the sexy wife of
Speaker 1: the new paper mill manager, Sparks fly a song by
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift. Also, here's the one where Carol is a
Speaker 1: doctor and Doctors without Borders. Not that. So today we're
Speaker 1: talking about Carol, the two thousand fifteen film starring Cape
Speaker 1: Blanchett and Rooney Mara, based on the novel The Price
Speaker 1: of Salt by Patricia high Smith UM, which is considered
Speaker 1: a you know, contemporary lesbian classic, a queer Christmas favorite, right,
Speaker 1: And we're going to be, you know, talking all about
Speaker 1: Carol um our first experiences with it. We're gonna be
Speaker 1: talking about lesbian's Christmas gloves, high speed chases, uh, and
Speaker 1: you know, maybe some of the other works of Patricia
Speaker 1: high Smith, because this is like a virgin the show
Speaker 1: where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm Rasdami
Speaker 1: and I'm fran Toronto. I think we have talked on
Speaker 1: this podcast before about whether or not we would eat
Speaker 1: human flesh, honestly multiple times, multiple times. Yeah, in case
Speaker 1: it hasn't made it to air. I don't think anyone
Speaker 1: will be surprised to find out that, yes, I would
Speaker 1: eat human flesh, and not only like would I hypothetically
Speaker 1: do it, like I would actively like to try. And
Speaker 1: that is why When I watched the first five minutes
Speaker 1: of the movie Bones and All, I was like, this
Speaker 1: is a movie written, are directed, produced, and concepted by
Speaker 1: Rose damn you like it was so yes, I actually
Speaker 1: wrote the y a novel and paid Luca Guardanino to
Speaker 1: adapt it. They didn't even have to option it. I
Speaker 1: just said, here, please take it. Um. Yeah, So so
Speaker 1: we've both seen Bones and All. I saw it last week.
Speaker 1: Um I I loved it. I know you would. So
Speaker 1: it's so its incredible, no pun intended. I knew that
Speaker 1: I would love it, and I was so happy to
Speaker 1: be proven right. It was such a beautiful movie. Like
Speaker 1: I I was gat and I was gagged. I thought
Speaker 1: it was so much fun, like NonStop fun on the
Speaker 1: world building level, like and you could hell that the
Speaker 1: source material was just like really sharp and fun like
Speaker 1: so just it's the basis is there's boymate's girl and
Speaker 1: there's like bisexual cannibal meets bisexual cannibal. Um, and that's
Speaker 1: what this story is. And in this world, which is
Speaker 1: in the eighties, UM, cannibals are a somewhat common, not
Speaker 1: common thing in society, and they're frequently you know, abandoned
Speaker 1: as kids and so they are like cannibals roaming around
Speaker 1: society that are kind of and they smell smell each
Speaker 1: other from far away, and they're all kind of feral. Right.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of specific things about this world
Speaker 1: of cannibal culture that was so cool, and that was
Speaker 1: just something that I really just from jump was sucked into. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And and the thing that I liked about the way
Speaker 1: that this world was set up was that it was
Speaker 1: a matter of fact and like you learned things as
Speaker 1: the character learned things. So the main characters this girl
Speaker 1: who like all her life she's lived with her dad
Speaker 1: and they've gone from town to town as she has
Speaker 1: killed and mauld people. And once she turns eighteen, he,
Speaker 1: you know, like abandons her for good with some information
Speaker 1: about her family. And Taylor Russell, I think, plays her
Speaker 1: with this really incredible frankness, like she's naive but in
Speaker 1: a way where she is very like curious, and I
Speaker 1: love how matter of fact she is and how she's
Speaker 1: like obviously it's in these like really intense circumstances, but
Speaker 1: like makes them very believable and very grounded. And I
Speaker 1: just thought like she gave such an incredible performance, especially
Speaker 1: alongside Timothy, who you know, plays this this cannibal who
Speaker 1: she meets on the road and they fall in love.
Speaker 1: And I had been wondering, like, would Timothy's start power
Speaker 1: be like kind of distracting, But I actually felt that
Speaker 1: it was very additive to the movie because you had
Speaker 1: to have someone with that much charisma in that role
Speaker 1: to understand like how they would be drawn to each other.
Speaker 1: And I think like the Timothy shallowmin of it all
Speaker 1: worked really well in that I loved Timmy. I really
Speaker 1: loved that also. So just to your point about Taylor Russell,
Speaker 1: like I think, yeah, the the naivete of her character
Speaker 1: was balanced well with the fact that she's a survivor,
Speaker 1: right like this, this, this whole movie is a story
Speaker 1: about survival and isolation, like societal isolation and what you
Speaker 1: do with it when it's out of your control, Like
Speaker 1: what do you do with the hands that you're dealt
Speaker 1: like the finger off exactly, you bite the finger off.
Speaker 1: And you know, this character is accountable, that you know
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily want to be accountable, and Timote and other
Speaker 1: you know, forces in in the movie are kind of
Speaker 1: convincing her that you know, girl, this is who you
Speaker 1: are so why don't you lean in and figure out
Speaker 1: what you do like about it, how you can take
Speaker 1: a bite exactly. So on Timmy, I will say, obviously,
Speaker 1: this movie can't exist without Timmy was perfect, added the
Speaker 1: realism and the natural realism that marries with Luca Guardardino's
Speaker 1: style on a really really cool, like fantastical premise that said,
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I I really don't like being I
Speaker 1: don't like doing this. I don't like but and yet
Speaker 1: you do it over and over again and yeah, and
Speaker 1: yet you bring it to us every ball. I think
Speaker 1: Taylor Russell is a movie star uncontested Lee and I
Speaker 1: think she I would watch her in so many other things.
Speaker 1: I think that next to Timmy, her performance felt a
Speaker 1: little to y A because what Timmy gave to me
Speaker 1: was not why A. It was like pure realism. But
Speaker 1: I felt like the way the movie was written, like
Speaker 1: specifically the dialogue was extremely why A and I. You know,
Speaker 1: we were texting after and I was like I felt
Speaker 1: a little way and you were like, well, it was
Speaker 1: based on a y A book girl, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: like I can of course, like I can tell like
Speaker 1: that is like rich on the page, and so And
Speaker 1: this doesn't mean that I disliked the movie, but I
Speaker 1: just I was like I wanted it to either be
Speaker 1: y A or complete and total realism. And I I
Speaker 1: did think that Taylor's performance felt a little weak next
Speaker 1: to Timm's because like he could sell the dialogue more
Speaker 1: than but when she was selling it, she was selling
Speaker 1: it like with this kind of upbeat like y Anus
Speaker 1: is like all I can mustard like that what to
Speaker 1: to describe her about? I was still like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I wonder if what you're seeing is that she was
Speaker 1: playing a teenager, because she was, and like I I
Speaker 1: just honestly like, I guess I get what you're trying
Speaker 1: to say. But I thought that that all worked really
Speaker 1: well in the context like of the movie. And I
Speaker 1: really felt like she and Timothy especially but everyone were
Speaker 1: all in the a movie, which I think sometimes doesn't
Speaker 1: happen um like in films that are this massive, not
Speaker 1: just because like the awards of it all, but like
Speaker 1: the movie star and like you know, the like atur director.
Speaker 1: But I like believed their love story. And I also
Speaker 1: believed even more than that in her journey. I was too,
Speaker 1: because the thing is she's the the protagonist, Timmy, does
Speaker 1: not come in for quite a while into the movie,
Speaker 1: which I appreciate it. I thought it was really cool,
Speaker 1: and so that's why I felt like Timmy's like performance
Speaker 1: was like, you know, it felt unintentional. It felt like
Speaker 1: it unintentionally disrupted the genre that we they were in
Speaker 1: um and so I personally think that they were not
Speaker 1: in the same movie, but I do think that they
Speaker 1: both brought something to the romance that was essential and
Speaker 1: definitely believable. So I don't feel at any point like
Speaker 1: the premise or like what they were doing was unbelievable
Speaker 1: because I was just honestly having so much fun still, Like,
Speaker 1: I get what you're saying, but I think there's a
Speaker 1: difference between y A and something that is about teenagers,
Speaker 1: and I actually thought this might agree. I totally thought
Speaker 1: this film did a really good job of telling a
Speaker 1: story that was about teenagers, but like in a way
Speaker 1: and like from an adult's perspective and not like, yes,
Speaker 1: it was a coming of age story, but it didn't
Speaker 1: feel um like juvenile. Yeah, it really was about the
Speaker 1: dialogue For me, like I felt like dialogue had been
Speaker 1: lifted from the books because it was clunky. It was
Speaker 1: over a nunciitive. It was a lot of telling instead
Speaker 1: of showing. It was full sentences instead of like things
Speaker 1: that would be naturalistic kind of like fragments, Like I
Speaker 1: would never have felt like it was to y A
Speaker 1: if Timmy wasn't in the film, right, Like, I think
Speaker 1: Taylor brought exactly what the film needed, and then Timmy
Speaker 1: just brought in a different energy and then I was
Speaker 1: just like, okay that it just it just like felt
Speaker 1: different to me, like and I didn't under I didn't
Speaker 1: buy their chemistry a hundred percent of the time. But
Speaker 1: like it's that that's not it's not really Taylor, It's
Speaker 1: not really either there there's faults. Like that's to me,
Speaker 1: a directing issue, and that's at the end of the day.
Speaker 1: I think like some of the cinema was beautiful, All
Speaker 1: the production was beautiful, it's just simply on that element
Speaker 1: of the direction. I like, I noticed so many of
Speaker 1: these little like stylistic flourishes um that I really recognized
Speaker 1: from Suspiria, which is the last film that that Luca
Speaker 1: Guadnina made, and I just think he has such a
Speaker 1: clear vision that he's really able to turn towards each
Speaker 1: of these different worlds. If you look at the past
Speaker 1: three movies he's made like very different subject matters, but
Speaker 1: like still like this very consistent gaze and point of view.
Speaker 1: I also loved the score, which was done by Um
Speaker 1: Trent Restner of Nine Inch Nails and Atticus Ross. And
Speaker 1: you know, they've done a bunch of film scores at
Speaker 1: this point. One of them. Oh I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: That's so cool. Yeah, I'm speaking of music. I've been
Speaker 1: listening to the new Waste Blood album a lot. And
Speaker 1: she's a girl who I have not really been that
Speaker 1: much into, but you have really been singing her praises
Speaker 1: for a while. I think. I remember when we went
Speaker 1: to Joshua Tree last year. You were playing her a lot. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We were on Vaca and I was like, oh, like
Speaker 1: we were cooking, I think, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I want to put on this album that we were
Speaker 1: that I was talking about, UM, which was Titanic Rising
Speaker 1: and that album is for the Virgins, so fucking good. UM.
Speaker 1: But her new album, Yeah, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: I loved it too. It was so beauty. It's very pretty.
Speaker 1: It's you know, I do think it's like sliding into
Speaker 1: this space that I mean kind of a lot of music.
Speaker 1: Like it's how I received it at first, which is
Speaker 1: where it takes a while for me to really figure
Speaker 1: out what are the standout songs for me, and it
Speaker 1: all just kind of like blends together. And I think
Speaker 1: the dream equality of her voice sort of exacerbates that. Um,
Speaker 1: But now that I've spent more time with it, like,
Speaker 1: there are some songs that are really standing out to me,
Speaker 1: Like God turned me into a flower so beautiful, um,
Speaker 1: hearts to glow. But she like she really does sound
Speaker 1: so much like Joni Mitchell with like a little Nico
Speaker 1: thrown in, But it's insane. Nico's such a good comp
Speaker 1: I had never thought of that. Yeah, she has this
Speaker 1: kind of like she has one of those artists where
Speaker 1: her vocal, her very her vocal specificity is what anchors
Speaker 1: the music right and yeah, I for the versions. I
Speaker 1: feel like she's like wise what is very like Karen Carpenter,
Speaker 1: if like she had an electric keyboard and electronic keyboard
Speaker 1: and like saying about depressive relationships and like being anxious
Speaker 1: at heart. Total Like Carpentry is a really good comparison.
Speaker 1: I think it was. This is something that's really cool
Speaker 1: about her Rose like she was, she grew up like
Speaker 1: very evangelical Christian and so a lot of like her.
Speaker 1: A lot a lot of her music is like inspired
Speaker 1: by church music and inspired by kind of religious fanaticism.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, like, I honestly think that, like
Speaker 1: with Wise Blood and definitely with Ethel Kaine, like I
Speaker 1: kind of fall in love with the story of them
Speaker 1: as much as I fall in love with the music,
Speaker 1: because I do love seeing the references and when you
Speaker 1: hear the references so clearly in the music, like I
Speaker 1: don't know, it just like makes me feel so I
Speaker 1: just like love seeing like the brain on the track,
Speaker 1: you know it's it's it's so gorgeous. I love UM.
Speaker 1: Speaking of brains and other body parts. You were telling
Speaker 1: me over text that you have started watching the new
Speaker 1: UM Netflix Wednesday show, Yes, which I can't remember if
Speaker 1: you if you watch it early for work or some
Speaker 1: thing or that. I watched it like a month ago,
Speaker 1: and okay, I had a great time watching it. I
Speaker 1: think it's so fun. Yeah, I I honestly I had
Speaker 1: really low expectations. I'm not gonna lie, like, following our
Speaker 1: Tim Burton episode and and thinking about just like, um,
Speaker 1: what the things that we come to expect from Netflix shows.
Speaker 1: I really loved the series right away, like such a
Speaker 1: pleasant surprise to me. Um, it was very like we
Speaker 1: need to fill the gap that Sabrina left. Like I
Speaker 1: felt that hard, but like I'm not mad at it,
Speaker 1: you know, Like and and Jenna Ortega, who plays Wednesday,
Speaker 1: is a marvel. Like she's so, she's a star. She's
Speaker 1: been great and everything that she's done, and it kind
Speaker 1: of has taken up until this point to find the
Speaker 1: right vehicle to truly I think unleash her star power
Speaker 1: because she's done a lot of supporting roles. She's been
Speaker 1: in a lot of netflixings. Um, she was in X
Speaker 1: earlier this year, and she she was in the screen
Speaker 1: movie as well, the Scream Races. She plays the most
Speaker 1: annoying character in You. She does It's like but again,
Speaker 1: now she found her vehicle. She just has it. She
Speaker 1: is perfect at the dead pan Wednesday thing, those like
Speaker 1: little moments of like um, you know levity, like the
Speaker 1: sort of like smirk she does. She the dance scene
Speaker 1: like was so done scene. I think no spoilers for
Speaker 1: the virgins. It was thus I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of the dance. I think there's a lot of young
Speaker 1: actors especially who would do a role like this and
Speaker 1: would be sort of rolling their eyes the whole time
Speaker 1: and like like like l O L can you believe
Speaker 1: I'm doing this? But she's just like so committed to
Speaker 1: it that it works and the and like I really
Speaker 1: appreciate that because like, yes, Wednesday is a character who
Speaker 1: is like, you know, like the prototypical like um, you
Speaker 1: know golf girl. Um, she's you know, the black print
Speaker 1: for lydia diets and and like all the other like sad,
Speaker 1: angry golf girls who like have guillotines. Um. But she
Speaker 1: just like really she she is the has to be
Speaker 1: the straight man in her own show and just like
Speaker 1: does it so well. That's such a good way of
Speaker 1: putting it. Like she is someone who's just kind of
Speaker 1: like bearing witness to like the idiocy around her. Like
Speaker 1: for if if you haven't watched it yet, like The Virgins,
Speaker 1: like it's very it's she is the protagonist and her
Speaker 1: family like isn't in the movie as much as she is,
Speaker 1: you know, basically starting life at a new academy called Nevermore.
Speaker 1: It's it's very Monster High meets like Daria, right, it's
Speaker 1: like murderous Daria, you know, like and and I loved that.
Speaker 1: And I thought that, like, whoever concept of this, because
Speaker 1: it wasn't Tim Burton, whoever like concept of the show
Speaker 1: like understood the like the the contemporary relevance of a
Speaker 1: character like Wednesday, who has has had like jokes about
Speaker 1: like anti colonization, like back in like the nineties and
Speaker 1: early odds, right, like there were things about this character
Speaker 1: that were like against the world and against the oppressive
Speaker 1: forces of the world. And you know, the Adams family
Speaker 1: was a Latin family, even though that didn't really come
Speaker 1: through in a lot of the iterations of the franchise
Speaker 1: and was only present in I think the after the cartoon,
Speaker 1: right is like when they were like, oh, yeah, I
Speaker 1: guess his first name is Gomez, so like, I guess
Speaker 1: he's Latin, right, Like, you know, I was reading a
Speaker 1: little bit about like the history of Um Adam's family
Speaker 1: and how um when John Aston, the original Gomez Um
Speaker 1: was cast, they were like, yeah, you need to like
Speaker 1: lean into like the Latin lover energy of the portrayal
Speaker 1: or whatever, which is obviously very cringe now, but it
Speaker 1: was like it just like, you know, there were no
Speaker 1: Latin characters on screen at all, and so to have
Speaker 1: um an adaptation that sees like the relevance and also
Speaker 1: just like how effortless all of that has folded into
Speaker 1: the world. It was. So it's so fun. It is
Speaker 1: it is, It's very fun. It's dark, it leans into
Speaker 1: the darkness. It really doesn't like pull punches because it
Speaker 1: is a show ostensibly for and about teens. Um. I
Speaker 1: loved that Christina Ricci was in it. You know, Christina
Speaker 1: Ricci played Day in the nineties films. Um, and she
Speaker 1: was so fun in it, and um, yeah, I just
Speaker 1: had had a good time. Catherine data Jones was Slade
Speaker 1: when she was on screen. Um. You know, there are
Speaker 1: some questions I have about the the world and that
Speaker 1: like I don't think we're like answered as satisfactorily maybe
Speaker 1: as they could be, But um, I like I would
Speaker 1: definitely watch the season two. No, I mean honestly, I
Speaker 1: think that like Riverdale is a camp for this show
Speaker 1: because there are a lot of twists and turns where
Speaker 1: if you're a teen or preteen watching this, you're not
Speaker 1: you don't care about like the kind of like the
Speaker 1: logistical or believable, the believability of the emotional stakes of
Speaker 1: these characters when they are sometimes a little thin, but
Speaker 1: you're because it's so drama and because it's so like
Speaker 1: such a juicy and eccentric teen show. Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: I I do have fun watching it, even when I'm
Speaker 1: just like, oh, this is like a teen show, you know,
Speaker 1: speaking of reboots. Um I I did try to watch Disenchanted.
Speaker 1: Try I Ryan, Ryan and I watched thirty minutes of
Speaker 1: it and had to turn it off. Wait wait, can
Speaker 1: you explain to the virgins actually like the cultural importance
Speaker 1: of this moment, because like you two are very like
Speaker 1: Amy Adams, so you love the original Enchanted, So like
Speaker 1: what happened? What? What was that? That's what happened? Just
Speaker 1: like I couldn't do it. I didn't want to. I'm shook.
Speaker 1: So you're never going to watch the other half of that.
Speaker 1: I'll probably not half thirty minutes because we were watching
Speaker 1: it and then paused it to eat and we were like, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's got to be halfway over now, and that's when
Speaker 1: we realized we were only a third of it. We
Speaker 1: realized we were only like a quarter of the way
Speaker 1: in and we were like, Nope, given up. I'm sure
Speaker 1: I'll go back and finish it at some point, but
Speaker 1: I'm not like in a rush to watch it, to
Speaker 1: be honest, Like it was better than hocus Pocus too,
Speaker 1: but it did make me feel the same way. I know,
Speaker 1: it made me feel the same way, Like it made
Speaker 1: me feel like they were trying to make the magic
Speaker 1: happen twice instead of finding something that's like really interesting
Speaker 1: about this world and like reinvigorating it. Um, I don't.
Speaker 1: Just from from what I saw, it was just lacking
Speaker 1: what was so perfect about the original besides that it
Speaker 1: was like amazing and like the music was great and
Speaker 1: all this stuff. The original Enchanted is met a commentary
Speaker 1: on Disney movies, and like, from what I watched, this
Speaker 1: was not doing any of that. And that's one of
Speaker 1: the reasons why I Enchanted works so well. It's like
Speaker 1: maybe the main reason why Enchanted works so well, honestly,
Speaker 1: we and can we talk about that because it's so true,
Speaker 1: like the original Enchanted was a subversion of Disney's core
Speaker 1: principles in like perfection and ideally poking fun in itself. Yes,
Speaker 1: it was. It was. It was ingenious, like, it was
Speaker 1: so crazy to watch if you're a Disney hallic because
Speaker 1: it's ripping open all of these you know, things that
Speaker 1: we don't really allow, that we don't usually see in
Speaker 1: Disney movies. And so yeah, I agree. I don't think
Speaker 1: that the next movie was The second movie was amazing.
Speaker 1: Can I rattle off just like a few observations because
Speaker 1: I did finish the movie. Um, I felt that Amy
Speaker 1: Adams had not aged a day. I did not see
Speaker 1: a single pore on her skin. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: I thought she looked incredible. I don't know where Disney
Speaker 1: is getting all of these bad child actors. They're all
Speaker 1: so so hard to listen to, and then they have
Speaker 1: to anchor so many scenes and I'm like, are you
Speaker 1: talking about the daughter? Yes, that's the daughter from Enchanted.
Speaker 1: It's the same actress. Why why didn't they just pick
Speaker 1: a new girl? Why did they do that? Did they
Speaker 1: really do that? Oh my god? I had no idea.
Speaker 1: Um okay. I also just I um the movie. So
Speaker 1: do you do you get to like the twitt the
Speaker 1: kind of twist where you know she'd be where? Okay,
Speaker 1: So Amy Adams basically makes herself the wicked stepmother and
Speaker 1: creates world around like very wan Division esque, like has
Speaker 1: a spell that makes the world of this suburbia enchanted,
Speaker 1: like fantasy is now on Earth in her suburb and
Speaker 1: so she is like this wicked stepmother that goes up
Speaker 1: against Maya Rudolph who was like the evil queen of
Speaker 1: the world. But Rose she does not sell wicked step
Speaker 1: mom at all, like it is and and it's so
Speaker 1: disappointing because I actually think Amy is good enough to
Speaker 1: do that, but like she is, she's not believable at
Speaker 1: all at what should be a really fun and engaging
Speaker 1: like like twist of her character, like she can't be evil.
Speaker 1: And I was so sad that she didn't, like Stick
Speaker 1: the Landing. When you do watch it, i'd be curious.
Speaker 1: I mean you, I feel like you would probably feel
Speaker 1: the same way. Um, but yeah, And then honestly, my
Speaker 1: last thing that like I think also you would have
Speaker 1: the same critique is that there of course as a
Speaker 1: sequence where they go back into the like the animated
Speaker 1: world of like enchanted, and the animation style is trash
Speaker 1: Mama like it is like so ugly. It's giving like
Speaker 1: like millennial like medical ad like like cartoonific and I
Speaker 1: got immediately. So this is another unusual one where I, um,
Speaker 1: it kind of took me a while to see Carol.
Speaker 1: I I did not watch it until Christmas, God bless,
Speaker 1: I would definitely was aware of it. I just never,
Speaker 1: you know, got around to seeing it and then realized
Speaker 1: it was, you know, a glaring omission and watch didn't
Speaker 1: I mean obviously immediately fell in love. Um, not just
Speaker 1: a glaring omission in the consumption of the cannon, but
Speaker 1: you're cannon like. It's such a you movie, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Um? And I guess, well, when did
Speaker 1: you did you see it when it first came out?
Speaker 1: Did you see the theater? Definitely, I'm pretty sure I
Speaker 1: saw it. I did not see it in theater, so
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, that would have been really nice to
Speaker 1: see in theaters. It is a movie that feels like
Speaker 1: a movie. Is I wonder if Cinispia will do a
Speaker 1: Carol Christmas screen. Of course went back from to l
Speaker 1: A for that, honestly after so I rewatched for the episode,
Speaker 1: and I do feel like it's now something I have
Speaker 1: to watch every year. It is it is. It is
Speaker 1: one of the Christmas movies. So for any virgins who
Speaker 1: haven't seen Carol Um. It is the story of terrez Belavette,
Speaker 1: who is a you know, part time seasonal employee at
Speaker 1: the department store in nineteen use New York City, and
Speaker 1: one day she waits on Carol Aired, who is a
Speaker 1: wealthy suburban housewife, and there's instantly a spark between the
Speaker 1: two of them. Carol leaves her gloves um in the
Speaker 1: children's toy department. Who should say if it was on
Speaker 1: purpose or an accident, yes, where she's been buying a
Speaker 1: gift for her daughter Lyndy, a train set. And let
Speaker 1: me tell well, she was looking for a doll. It's
Speaker 1: so funny the dynamics. Yeah, well that's honestly, Like Carol
Speaker 1: is literally walking into the store and her kind of
Speaker 1: vibe is like, my daughter wants a fucking doll. I
Speaker 1: don't really know why she wants a doll. It's this
Speaker 1: very specific doll. I don't care. And then and then
Speaker 1: she's like she's like this fucking kid, Yeah, this fucking kid.
Speaker 1: And then of course this like hot young thing. Like
Speaker 1: it's like, actually, when I was young, I wanted a
Speaker 1: train set, and Carol clock set, I was like, I'll
Speaker 1: take one loaded up in the car, She's like, you
Speaker 1: say a train? Did you say a train? Because there's
Speaker 1: actually nothing more, you know, nothing gayer than a train
Speaker 1: than a train set. Then then not just like it's
Speaker 1: not about the train, it's not about transportation, it's about
Speaker 1: like creating the train set, like you are actually the
Speaker 1: arbiter and constructor of the whole ass train set. And
Speaker 1: that actually was the spark between them. Phoebe is losing
Speaker 1: it in the booth right now, is so deep. So
Speaker 1: as the story goes on, so Carol leaves her gloves
Speaker 1: and terres who's um. You know, imagination and sexuality have
Speaker 1: been you know, peaked by this older woman, sends her
Speaker 1: her gloves back, and and Carol invites her out to
Speaker 1: the suburbs in Connecticut. I believe that's where she lives,
Speaker 1: doesn't one of those um and they have you know,
Speaker 1: just a very like girls being girls, like night listening
Speaker 1: to records by the fire, smoking cigarette. Yes, their first
Speaker 1: encounters are I wouldn't say platonic, but they don't make
Speaker 1: physical advances on each other, you know. So they go out.
Speaker 1: They eat cream spinach, cream spinach with a poached egg,
Speaker 1: which honestly disgusting, but like also sounds really good. Can
Speaker 1: you imagine bottoming after eating cream spinach and like a
Speaker 1: jammy egg? Like I would be worried that's not something. Well,
Speaker 1: I don't well, I don't know that they're having butt sex.
Speaker 1: You are. I love how you forclosed on the kind
Speaker 1: of like sexual proclivities of but I think you're but
Speaker 1: I think yours. You're thinking of their sex life through
Speaker 1: the lens of a person who has sex with their
Speaker 1: but they and you're grafting your sexuality onto these two,
Speaker 1: which I do know. Sis, women, I don't know what
Speaker 1: you're talking about. I don't I have no, I don't
Speaker 1: think you're really I don't. I don't know if you're
Speaker 1: onto something. But the let's just say, you know, things
Speaker 1: get romantic. Things are also complicated because Carol is in
Speaker 1: a you know, sort of tumultuous divorce with her ex.
Speaker 1: Hard and Carolyn Tourez decide to kind of run away
Speaker 1: together on this road trip. They are pursued by a
Speaker 1: private detective. There's lots of intrigue. It's very twisty, yeah
Speaker 1: and sexy, and they and I think when thinking about
Speaker 1: kind of the cultural impact or maybe just like general
Speaker 1: sentiment about the movie when it came out, Like it's
Speaker 1: so funny, Like Carol really does replicate all the troops
Speaker 1: we've seen before and a kind of gay romance drama
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. Right, Like it back to
Speaker 1: our discussion on My Policeman, Like there's like a woman
Speaker 1: who has a straight partner, right, and she has to
Speaker 1: reconcile that in order to you know, chase her you know,
Speaker 1: desire or whatever. But like, their performances are so good
Speaker 1: and the movie is so good, and the tension is
Speaker 1: so expertly built, like you're not even mad that they're
Speaker 1: not fucking for like most of the movie, because I
Speaker 1: think the anticipation is like pristine. Like, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: it's a little different though, because even though, um, you know,
Speaker 1: the the hetero society is an obstacle to their love,
Speaker 1: it's not really an internal obstacle. Like Terres knows right
Speaker 1: away that she wants Carol, and Carol has experienced with women,
Speaker 1: as we see with her friends Abby played by Sarah Paulson,
Speaker 1: who is also an ex of hers. I mean, hello,
Speaker 1: the lesbians, they're still friends. Um I left the I
Speaker 1: got my eye on this red headline. Um, but I
Speaker 1: I agree Yeah, it's it's different, and I think a
Speaker 1: lot of it also has to do with the fact
Speaker 1: that this movie champions the romance, like it's not about
Speaker 1: the all the moving parts, like obviously it's very melodramatic,
Speaker 1: but blanches and the fact that it is more of
Speaker 1: a romance is kind of a deviation from the source material.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever read The Price of Salt,
Speaker 1: did you? I read it after I watched the movie.
Speaker 1: I was on a Patricia Highsmith kick, and The Price
Speaker 1: of Salt is much more well, I mean, if you read,
Speaker 1: if you've read any Patricia Highsmith is what comes as
Speaker 1: a surprise that The Price of Salt is much more
Speaker 1: of a thriller, because that's what Patricia Highsmith did as
Speaker 1: she wrote thrillers. And it's much more about them being
Speaker 1: on the run from the detective at the end than
Speaker 1: it is about I would say, like the movie is
Speaker 1: much more the weight is on the beginning of their
Speaker 1: love story and like the romance of it, and then
Speaker 1: that all is kind of like a sort of third
Speaker 1: act thing with the detective happens. It's like the climax, Yes,
Speaker 1: And I would say that is kind of half of
Speaker 1: the Price of Salt is all this stuff with Harge
Speaker 1: and Way. But the thing is that it's still they
Speaker 1: both have very hopeful endings, you know. And it actually
Speaker 1: the ending is even more clearly hopeful in the novel
Speaker 1: than it It's more explicitly like a happy ending in
Speaker 1: the novel than it is in the book. Do you
Speaker 1: remember how it goes down? Yeah, it's with it ends
Speaker 1: with them, you know, like getting back together. But it's
Speaker 1: with this with the movie. It's a little kind of
Speaker 1: like like they both feel weird about it. They're both
Speaker 1: you know, have it feels like Rooney Mara has like
Speaker 1: it has hang ups about getting back into Carol's you
Speaker 1: know grasp again. Yeah, I mean, it it ends with
Speaker 1: with the possibility that they could reconcile because they are
Speaker 1: in the same place once again, whereas in the novel
Speaker 1: it's like more definitively that they are going to get
Speaker 1: back together. Yeah. Okay, wait, so do you think do
Speaker 1: you consider yourself a Carol or a Tress. You're a Carol.
Speaker 1: I'm a Carol. Yeah, You're a Carol, right, because you're
Speaker 1: the one that likes to strut end and be like
Speaker 1: this is how it's going to happen. Yeah, I would
Speaker 1: say I'm I'm the mom in the relationship because this
Speaker 1: the milf energy in this movie is unparalleled on real Okay,
Speaker 1: when every time she wears the pairs of every time
Speaker 1: she wears the pair of sunglasses over the looks. Looks
Speaker 1: in this movie are out of this world into the
Speaker 1: stratosphere everything. I want every item of clothing that both
Speaker 1: of them wear, and this is there's something also about
Speaker 1: movies that take place in this era, and Carol specifically.
Speaker 1: I was also thinking about this with like leak of
Speaker 1: their own smoking is so sexy. Smoking. We need to
Speaker 1: bring back cigarettes. Everybody smoking needs to be brought You could, honestly,
Speaker 1: if you could smoke just without the smell, I would
Speaker 1: be smoking a pack of Day serious. Thank God, It's
Speaker 1: so chic except when you smell, especially when they used
Speaker 1: to smoke indoors. God, do you remember the era when
Speaker 1: we could smoke at restaurants? Why we I mean we
Speaker 1: were children were children. But there was there was a
Speaker 1: a Nathan's Slash like rob something rotisserie chicken restaurant in
Speaker 1: my neighborhood growing up where there was a smoking section
Speaker 1: in it. I there was also a diner in Illinois
Speaker 1: that I used to wait, I need to find out
Speaker 1: what it's. And when I first started going to bars
Speaker 1: when I was in high school and like sneaking into
Speaker 1: gay bars you were you could smoke in there. There
Speaker 1: was this like open late diner in my suburb um
Speaker 1: in Illinois called Beef and Brandy at a mob smoker section.
Speaker 1: I remember sounds like a place that Carol would take
Speaker 1: Tret and Brandy. Honestly, is a really good restaurant name
Speaker 1: Beef and Brandy? Is it? Yeah? I think it's because
Speaker 1: like a franchise, Brandy goes with Beef. And also probably
Speaker 1: it's like a I feel like in in this kind
Speaker 1: of like a in this uh dichotomy, I think Carol
Speaker 1: is the Brandy. Okay, so um you Siety answered that
Speaker 1: I'm a Carol because are you a Carol or Terres?
Speaker 1: I'm a Terres. I would like I wish I was
Speaker 1: a Carol, but no, I play defense. But also, okay, actually,
Speaker 1: here's what I think. The dynamic of this podcast is
Speaker 1: your Terres, Phoebees, Carol, and I'm Sarah paul is a
Speaker 1: smoking gun. Sarah Paulson, I think that's it. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna lie. I actually can definitely own up to being
Speaker 1: a Rooney Mara type, like I really play I cannot
Speaker 1: tell when people are hitting on me. I absolutely play dumb.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter how entranced I am, Like, all I
Speaker 1: can do is saying how enchanted you are, and was
Speaker 1: enchanting to me. I love Rooney Mara, and honestly, we
Speaker 1: were promised a Rooney Marra career that we did not get,
Speaker 1: and this kind of this her being in this movie,
Speaker 1: I believe is a direct consequence of that, and so
Speaker 1: I'm okay with it. But she was poised to be
Speaker 1: such a gigantic movie star when The Girl with the
Speaker 1: Dragon Tattoo came out, because that was set up to
Speaker 1: be this phenomenon and it never took off quite the
Speaker 1: way that I think people expected it too, because of
Speaker 1: what a sensation the book was. But I am obsessed
Speaker 1: with The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, and for me,
Speaker 1: like Carol, it is an annual Christmas watch. The Girl
Speaker 1: with the Dragon Tattoo is a Christmas movie shot it is.
Speaker 1: She's so Wintery's excellent in that movie. She was nominated, right,
Speaker 1: she was nominated for an Oscar so she okay, and
Speaker 1: the press the lead up to that movie, when she
Speaker 1: she and Daniel Craig did so many shoots in character.
Speaker 1: There's one where like she's he's like giving her a
Speaker 1: tattoo or he's giving one of them, I don't know.
Speaker 1: And the movie, uh no, they did a bunch of
Speaker 1: photo shoots like where character she was given a tattoo
Speaker 1: and like she was naked in these photo shoots. I
Speaker 1: mean it. I was so obsessed with the haircuts she
Speaker 1: got for the movie with like the Little Baby Bang,
Speaker 1: and she's so sexy in that and the way they
Speaker 1: fucking it and oh, she was so good. And I
Speaker 1: do think that if that movie had been more of
Speaker 1: a hit, she would have been a movie star in
Speaker 1: a different way than she is now, and she might
Speaker 1: never have done Carol. So I guess I'm kind of
Speaker 1: glad that The Girl with the Dragonta too low key flopped. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that it flopped. I thought it was
Speaker 1: like such a I mean, she's so fucking good in
Speaker 1: that movie. Um well, there was there were never any
Speaker 1: sequel because it wasn't super financially successful. Oh I wonder also,
Speaker 1: if like her playing tigerl littly in that Peter Pan
Speaker 1: movie also played a part in Like Her, Like Her
Speaker 1: Like kind of flopped them as an actress. Unfortunately, I
Speaker 1: don't because of Hollywood being the way it is, I
Speaker 1: don't think that negatively impacted her career, even though it
Speaker 1: should have. But something that should be said about Rooney
Speaker 1: was that she was chasing an oscar for like many
Speaker 1: consecutive years, and there were like, you know, rumors about
Speaker 1: I can't remember which one she lost for, but she
Speaker 1: lost one of her in one of her oscar races.
Speaker 1: She lost, and she reportedly like was like in the bathroom,
Speaker 1: like crying and me, what about an oscar? I would
Speaker 1: know I would be upset, but I wouldn't be in
Speaker 1: the bathroom in the bathroom. And I'm not demonizing her
Speaker 1: for that, I'm just providing context for the Virgins. Um.
Speaker 1: One of the other things that I was reading about
Speaker 1: was that, um, she you know, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: unfairness and how people decide what is the best supporting
Speaker 1: actress or best lead actress, and that she was best
Speaker 1: supporting in this role. But she's like on screen for
Speaker 1: more of the movie than Kate Blanchet is. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: the movie is called Carol, Yes, and it's also Kate
Speaker 1: fucking Blanchet, like of course she's going to suck the
Speaker 1: air out of the room anytime, any other you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like obviously they're they're mirrored performances. I
Speaker 1: think they're both equally talented and incredible. But I know
Speaker 1: that there was also saltinus about how um, you know,
Speaker 1: best supporting was decided, and I wonder if there was
Speaker 1: like drama there. That stuff is all bullshit anyway. Um
Speaker 1: Todd Haynes, who directed this film, you know, has made
Speaker 1: a lot of other very gay kind of movies. I
Speaker 1: haven't seen a lot of his films, But when I
Speaker 1: was a teenager, I was obsessed with Velvet gold Mine.
Speaker 1: Have you seen it? No, I've never even heard of it.
Speaker 1: It's um Christian Bale, you and McGregor and Jonathan riz Myers,
Speaker 1: the guy from the Tutors, And it's sort of like
Speaker 1: a Bowie. It's like about these rock stars who are
Speaker 1: sort of like based on Bowie. It's super gay. There's
Speaker 1: like full frontal male nudity, a love full frontal man
Speaker 1: so good is Have you seen Far from Heaven? I
Speaker 1: have not. I haven't either that's when Julianne Moore flex
Speaker 1: her son. Though, right, that snooze to me, but it's
Speaker 1: one of it's one. I've gone back to our incest
Speaker 1: conversation from the Born episode. We might have edited that, doubt. Um. No,
Speaker 1: Far from Heaven is one of multiple movies where Julianne
Speaker 1: Moore fox her son. Yeah, one of multiple yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and far from Him and she also plays um. She
Speaker 1: also sucks her son in Savage Grace with Eddie Red.
Speaker 1: I think it's Eddie Red when she was sucking her son.
Speaker 1: I don't know, because she likes to play complex female
Speaker 1: characters their son, yes, why not? Why not? It's complex.
Speaker 1: But I haven't seen either of these incest um dramas,
Speaker 1: but I would like to do that. That's those the
Speaker 1: types of film that Todd Hands makes, dramas. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I would categorize them like that. There's going
Speaker 1: to say more more incests dramas, representation. No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1: I'm just the season. Okay, okay, okay, So back to
Speaker 1: play with your son's load. I'm dying, okay. You know
Speaker 1: I used to you know, I used to um when
Speaker 1: I was a party producer. I used to throw an
Speaker 1: annual Christmas party called Dick the Balls, not Dick the
Speaker 1: Ball the balls. That's the lowest hanging fruit, if you
Speaker 1: know what I know. That was the whole point, the
Speaker 1: whole point shut up. Um. Something that's interesting in this
Speaker 1: movie specifically, and I guess in the book even though
Speaker 1: I hadn't read the book, is the kind of power
Speaker 1: a very common power dynamic we see in queer relationships,
Speaker 1: maybe specifically lesbian relationships. And I kept thinking about Tar
Speaker 1: when I was watching it, and like, how the edge
Speaker 1: gap of it all, the mommy vibes of it all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's funny to watch two knowing that like Kate
Speaker 1: is like day, Like I think we all at this
Speaker 1: point know that, Like Kate blanche is like kind of
Speaker 1: Queen Latifa style, Like yes, I think that's like an
Speaker 1: industry secret. You know she keeps playing lesbian. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: because she can do that. She's Kate Blanchet. She's literally
Speaker 1: one of the most famous people on the planet. She
Speaker 1: can do whatever she wants without talking about her sexuality,
Speaker 1: which someone did ask her about her sexuality once in
Speaker 1: the Carol Press junket and she said very quickly that
Speaker 1: she has had many relationships with women, but apparent she
Speaker 1: claims that that quote was taken out of context and
Speaker 1: she said, oh, you mean sexual relationships none. Maybe if
Speaker 1: we get Kate an oscar for TAR, maybe she'll come
Speaker 1: out and her well, what did it take for Jodie
Speaker 1: Foster to come out? She got like a GLAD like
Speaker 1: an HRC award or whatever, like what was it? We don't.
Speaker 1: I don't want Kate to ever attend a GLAD Awards
Speaker 1: or an HRC benefit. Keep her far away. Kate is
Speaker 1: too high profile for that ship. That is kind of
Speaker 1: unfortunately that although I would love if we want a
Speaker 1: GLAD Awards. So if you're listening, we're open to it.
Speaker 1: We will appear, Okay, we can confirm appearance. Um. I
Speaker 1: do think actually though that like PR people, I mean
Speaker 1: you would not used to work im Neflix not to
Speaker 1: say that, but to say that, like a lot of
Speaker 1: people that work on PR teams from major celebrities are
Speaker 1: saying that, they're saying like this person is actually too
Speaker 1: big for queer media, queer awards, queer things like that's
Speaker 1: too limiting, and you know, to it the extent unfortunately,
Speaker 1: Like I mean, but you kind of like true almost
Speaker 1: like we used to bear media has not been legitimized
Speaker 1: in this media escape, so of course, like a listers
Speaker 1: don't want to go for it totally. You know, we
Speaker 1: as people who used to be queer journalists, Like you know,
Speaker 1: like if you go to one major film junket and
Speaker 1: you see that, like as someone from a queer outlet,
Speaker 1: and you see the position that you're in that day
Speaker 1: to interview the celebrities, you get a very clear idea
Speaker 1: of where you are in the pecking order. Or sometimes
Speaker 1: like when you're on a press line on a red carpet,
Speaker 1: if you're like the last person at the end of
Speaker 1: the line, like when you're from a queer outlet, that's
Speaker 1: how it always happened. Oh yeah. And also just like
Speaker 1: don't try it like at a junket, like you're not
Speaker 1: gonna go in with the spicy question, like you'll get caught.
Speaker 1: I did, right, but like mostly I made a career
Speaker 1: out of it. But your questions weren't that spicy. They
Speaker 1: were kind of fun, they were produced spicy. I told
Speaker 1: Timothy Shallowby that I was going to bring him a
Speaker 1: peach and that I would have eaten his come out
Speaker 1: of it and call me by your name. You didn't
Speaker 1: say that, I implied it. He knew what I was saying.
Speaker 1: He was picking up what I was putting down. And
Speaker 1: you know what, he loved it. And he gave me
Speaker 1: a hug afterwards, and then he gave me another hug
Speaker 1: when he saw me downstairs. He was stunning. Love did
Speaker 1: not love it so much. But that's another story for
Speaker 1: another time. I just watched Kate play at lesbian every
Speaker 1: damn time, Like, I think she's done it. I think
Speaker 1: she's done it more than just Tar and Carolva now
Speaker 1: I can't remember well. Also Oceans eight, it's very obvious
Speaker 1: that she and Sandy Bullock kind of thing. It's almost
Speaker 1: feels like Kate kind of has like she could walk
Speaker 1: into a room and have like sexual chemistry with this
Speaker 1: lamp shade, you know what I mean. But only of
Speaker 1: the lamp shade identified as a woman. Yeah, but that
Speaker 1: is the power of Kate, like the power of Kate.
Speaker 1: She's she's the lad. Yeah, it's so funny, like because
Speaker 1: Gladril was my entry point indicate not to make this
Speaker 1: a Kate episode, but it is kind of a k episode. Carol,
Speaker 1: she's Carol Um Gladual was my entry point to Kate,
Speaker 1: and Gladriel, to me, is altogether perfectly um encapsulates what
Speaker 1: a Kate Blanchet role should be and at the same yes,
Speaker 1: and at the same time, I think Gladriel is like
Speaker 1: way different from all of her other roles too, because
Speaker 1: it's so genre. Um. Well, I guess there's like the
Speaker 1: Thor movie, but I don't. I don't, I don't consider
Speaker 1: I don't think about the form. Yeah, I actually I
Speaker 1: revisited Thora Ragnarok somewhat recently, and I don't think it's
Speaker 1: actually very good, and I think she's not great in it.
Speaker 1: I liked the movie as something that broke open Thor
Speaker 1: and made it fun and roller coasterly to watch. I like, Ta,
Speaker 1: You're not as manjor fan, hated Kate's character, hated the
Speaker 1: c G. I I mean she was c G. I
Speaker 1: for like the movie anyway, it's like but I do
Speaker 1: like that one image that came out of it of
Speaker 1: Kate standing next to taka um okay, so back to
Speaker 1: the power dynamics and the age gap of it all.
Speaker 1: I feel like this has become such a huge part
Speaker 1: of Internet discourse, specifically with gen Z the like prudish
Speaker 1: hand ringing about age gaps in relationships. Why, like why
Speaker 1: are gen z such prudes? Like why are they boomers?
Speaker 1: Kind of yeah, like I've seen they are. I've seen
Speaker 1: TikTok's where where gen z are like talking about how
Speaker 1: it's disgusting that like a twenty two year old is
Speaker 1: in a relationship with like a thirty four year old
Speaker 1: Like what, yeah, no, it's it's silly, it's it's to me.
Speaker 1: It's just like group think, right, the all on TikTok.
Speaker 1: They're all consuming the same ideas, Like every generation is
Speaker 1: done a version of this where we all decide to
Speaker 1: commit to one obscenely bad idea and our belief system,
Speaker 1: and like, I think this is just one of those things.
Speaker 1: And you know, like I guess that there's nuance in
Speaker 1: age gaps and power dynamics and that like, of course
Speaker 1: those things should be acknowledged. But when everyone is you know,
Speaker 1: legal and above the age of consent, it's why it's
Speaker 1: I don't know what kind of it's like the same
Speaker 1: thing as the queer bating thing like stay out of
Speaker 1: people's relationships. Yeah, I think honestly, the way to think
Speaker 1: about it is like obviously, like age place, legal has
Speaker 1: like legal constraints and like how we talk about relationships
Speaker 1: or whatever. But like, at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: the ethical framework for like age gap relationships is all
Speaker 1: about power, And you can have an abusive power dynamic
Speaker 1: and an age gap relationship that is perfectly legal, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's not about like whether like
Speaker 1: how young the person is or how old the person is.
Speaker 1: It's about like what is the makeup of this relationship
Speaker 1: and is it healthy for both parties? Are they both
Speaker 1: consenting to it right? And like in Carol, they're clearly
Speaker 1: concerning to it. But I wonder if there was ever
Speaker 1: like a grooming conversation or something. I don't know, I'm sure,
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's there's like gen Z kids watching Carol
Speaker 1: now and like Carol groomed to rest, like shut the
Speaker 1: funk up. Yeah, probably. I I honestly feel like, um,
Speaker 1: there wasn't. I feel like no one problematized Carol, Like
Speaker 1: there was no I don't remember any sort of controversy,
Speaker 1: Like no one was complaining that there were the stray
Speaker 1: actors and queer roles, you know what I mean. Another
Speaker 1: thing I fully don't care about anymore. Yeah, I kind of.
Speaker 1: I care a lot about like sis actors and trans roles. Yes,
Speaker 1: that that's different because that that has real world consequences
Speaker 1: because as anyone who you know has watched Disclosure knows
Speaker 1: um that that trans women being portrayed by men in
Speaker 1: movies perpetuates the idea that trans women are men and
Speaker 1: women's clothing, which leads to real world violence being enacted
Speaker 1: on trans women. So that has real world consequences. But
Speaker 1: a straight actor planning a gay character has no real
Speaker 1: world impact outside of more straight actors getting cast as
Speaker 1: gayer characters, Like there's no consequence to it, like I
Speaker 1: simply don't care about it, like I Yes, I think
Speaker 1: it would be great if there was a there were
Speaker 1: more equal opportunity for gay actors to both play gay
Speaker 1: characters and straight characters. I wish there wasn't an industry
Speaker 1: bias that shut gay actors out from playing straight characters,
Speaker 1: or shut gay actors out from, if they do play
Speaker 1: a gay role, from doing anything besides playing gay. I
Speaker 1: think that's something that you see more often when actors
Speaker 1: talk about that, they talk about the ways in which
Speaker 1: they are pigeonholed. But I like I just fully don't
Speaker 1: care about it anymore. To me, the fallacy in thinking
Speaker 1: that it doesn't matter, you know, what orientation this person
Speaker 1: is is like mostly it mostly depends on whether or
Speaker 1: not this person is a good actor, because Cape Blanchett
Speaker 1: of course can carry this role and stick the landing.
Speaker 1: This because I feel like we've talked about this before,
Speaker 1: but like, to me, a lot of what it comes
Speaker 1: down to it was like do you stick the landing?
Speaker 1: And like that's why no one. I mean people kind
Speaker 1: of complained about calling by your name, but like faggots
Speaker 1: love that movie because they're well, I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: think Army Hammer is actually that great, but to me,
Speaker 1: the Timothy is so good in it that you have
Speaker 1: no choice but to love the film. And so to me, like,
Speaker 1: I think that I get frustrated when straight actors are
Speaker 1: in queer roles and they're also like not great actors.
Speaker 1: And if I don't see like the nuances of of
Speaker 1: what you want to see in like a queer character,
Speaker 1: then I think that, yeah, it should be problematizes, you know,
Speaker 1: like I think that should be kind of the metric
Speaker 1: is like is this contributing something good or bad to
Speaker 1: like our canon at the end of the day, like
Speaker 1: is it a good story? Like that is the thing
Speaker 1: that I care about the most, Like is it a
Speaker 1: good story? But what do you mean good by like interesting?
Speaker 1: Or are you like a moral good? No? No? No?
Speaker 1: Was it executed well? Like was it Carol? Was it
Speaker 1: called me by your name? That? Yeah? Um, it's funny
Speaker 1: though also just like maybe seguing out of this, like, um,
Speaker 1: Cape Bunchet was like asked about this, I think again
Speaker 1: during her like Tar Junket or whatever, and she you know,
Speaker 1: was talking about how she thinks that like it's important. Well,
Speaker 1: I'll just read the quote. She says, I think it's
Speaker 1: important on a society level, you know, to to like
Speaker 1: talk about queer stuff or whatever and homogeneity in any
Speaker 1: art arm as death. But she kind of goes on
Speaker 1: to say that like anything we make like doesn't need
Speaker 1: to be political politicized, right, Like it's not her job
Speaker 1: to politicize the art. It's like the audience's job to
Speaker 1: interpret it however they want or whatever. And you know,
Speaker 1: there's also like this moment where she says, like someone
Speaker 1: asks her about like the sexuality of Tar, she goes, oh,
Speaker 1: I didn't think about the character of sexuality at all,
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, I mean, I was like,
Speaker 1: well you you you you had you had to do something.
Speaker 1: I mean it that I think that Kate is like
Speaker 1: a brilliant person. Like everything she said in like her
Speaker 1: kind of answer to this totally made sense. And I
Speaker 1: was like, work, d Evin, like you know what you're
Speaker 1: talking about, when she was like, I don't really, I
Speaker 1: didn't think about the sexuality all. I was like, it's
Speaker 1: very like I don't see color, you know, like it's
Speaker 1: kind of giving the same vibe, even those those are
Speaker 1: obviously very different like frameworks. But I don't know. I
Speaker 1: was just like, come on, like, why do actors keep
Speaker 1: doing this like we're like human beings that have sex. Well,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of it rests on the fact
Speaker 1: that we expect actors to like say really profound things
Speaker 1: in interviews, and their actors they're not necessarily like particularly
Speaker 1: smart or you know, interesting, they're like usually like attractive
Speaker 1: and can act. Yeah, oh god, which is kind of
Speaker 1: all I need from them. Yeah. Um, have you ever
Speaker 1: been in a relationship where that had an age gap? Um? Yes, well,
Speaker 1: you know, my a lot of my very early sexual
Speaker 1: experiences when I was still a teenager were with older men.
Speaker 1: And then when I was first in college, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was very into older you know, kind of like daddy types. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I was seventeen, like fucking people I shouldn't maybe,
Speaker 1: but the consensual that's more about them, and I wanted
Speaker 1: it so badly. I um, I I would love to
Speaker 1: be with the daddy type. I would love to be
Speaker 1: with a mean mommy type. Actually, like I would love
Speaker 1: any sort of like power. I would love like an
Speaker 1: older but I've only I've dated. My age gap relationships
Speaker 1: are like dating someone who's like five years younger than
Speaker 1: me or whatever, And it's so it's it's so when
Speaker 1: it's funny because like age guests don't matter as much
Speaker 1: when like your past your thirties. I feel like I
Speaker 1: definitely have kind of a hard line. And this is
Speaker 1: like where my words about you know, uh, like prudish
Speaker 1: handwringing over age gaps does come back to bite me
Speaker 1: in the ass a little bit because I don't necessarily
Speaker 1: see like a problem with it. But I also would
Speaker 1: not want to date or even really fuck someone younger
Speaker 1: than like five, just because I don't know what I
Speaker 1: would talk to them about. Right, No, I'm saying when
Speaker 1: they're both past their thirties, which I think is that
Speaker 1: the case of Carol, because isn't I think young? Okay,
Speaker 1: yeah that yeah, yeah, that's the vibe. Um. Anyways, my point,
Speaker 1: My point is like it's just interesting how we create
Speaker 1: like weird kind of like islms about like what's good
Speaker 1: and bad based on something that is actually like pretty arbitrary.
Speaker 1: My early sexual experiences, I was baby and then uh
Speaker 1: now I'm usually more mommy. Um, but I don't really
Speaker 1: want to be mommy. I don't want like, I don't
Speaker 1: want to take I like the idea of like taking
Speaker 1: care of someone in a way, um you know, like
Speaker 1: I love a twin. I love a twin, but um no,
Speaker 1: I mean someone who I truly have like a generational
Speaker 1: divide with. I don't know that it's gonna work. Let
Speaker 1: me tell you. That's what I was experiencing. I was
Speaker 1: dating someone who was gen z and it was like
Speaker 1: it was bad. It was I mean, it wasn't It
Speaker 1: was loving. There was a lot of love and like
Speaker 1: this person was very mature beyond their years. But it
Speaker 1: was at the end of the day, I was like,
Speaker 1: this is a generational to flood and I actually don't
Speaker 1: have anything with you with in common with you, um,
Speaker 1: but I am always mean mommy, Rose. Like literally in
Speaker 1: every single age cap relationship I've ever been, and I've
Speaker 1: been in quite a few, I'm always mean mommy, and
Speaker 1: I do need to be needed. Like I love taking
Speaker 1: care of people, but like I would love to be
Speaker 1: taking care of Rose. I would love I would love
Speaker 1: to be the Rooney Mara. I see you don't think
Speaker 1: you say that in theory, but I don't know if
Speaker 1: you would be able to accept that kind of care.
Speaker 1: I think I think from the right partner I would.
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, you're It's true. I do have a
Speaker 1: hard time asking for help or accepting help a lot
Speaker 1: of the time. But I still you need to work
Speaker 1: on that. I do. I do need to work on that.
Speaker 1: We gotta get you into therapy. I so virgins slide
Speaker 1: into our d M s at like a virgin for
Speaker 1: on Instagram and tell us are you a Carol? Are
Speaker 1: you a terres? Would you use a leather glove if
Speaker 1: you were fisting someone? We want to know. I'm your
Speaker 1: co host, Rose damn you. You can find me anywhere
Speaker 1: online at Rose Damn You and I'm Franterata. You can
Speaker 1: find me at friends, squish co, anywhere you like, subscribe
Speaker 1: to Like a Virgin anywhere you listen to podcasts, Leave
Speaker 1: us a rating on Spotify for a review on Apple
Speaker 1: podcast We appreciate it so much. Like a Virgin is
Speaker 1: an I Heart Radio production. Our producer is Phoebe Unter,
Speaker 1: with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane Chitch
Speaker 1: and Nikki Etour