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Speaker 1: Carol Aired and Terrez Belovet are fan fiction ass names

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Speaker 1: like as names, those are trying really hard, Like it

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Speaker 1: feels like someone in the seventh grade wrote those names. Well,

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Speaker 1: it also sounds like a mid century lesbian author came

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Speaker 1: up with, which is what happened. I'm on a oh

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Speaker 1: three now looking at Terres Carol fan fiction and let's see. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna give the virgins a little tutorial on how

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Speaker 1: to use a three. So what I'm gonna do is

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Speaker 1: I'm going to look only for completed works, and then

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Speaker 1: I'm going to sort by kudos, and we'll see what

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Speaker 1: the most popular Carol fan fiction is. Okay, is called

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Speaker 1: better than fiction? It's by simply Sally. Okay. Here's some

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Speaker 1: of the tags fluff, angst, first time lesbian sex, romance,

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Speaker 1: slow burn, age difference, librarians, smut, religious conflict, alcohol abuse,

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Speaker 1: the slash alcoholism. Okay. Here's the synopsis. Life is a

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Speaker 1: librarian in rural Alabama, was driving Terrez Belavet slowly insane,

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Speaker 1: and then a new family from Vermont moved into town

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Speaker 1: and everything changed when she meets the sexy wife of

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Speaker 1: the new paper mill manager, Sparks fly a song by

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Speaker 1: Taylor Swift. Also, here's the one where Carol is a

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Speaker 1: doctor and Doctors without Borders. Not that. So today we're

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Speaker 1: talking about Carol, the two thousand fifteen film starring Cape

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Speaker 1: Blanchett and Rooney Mara, based on the novel The Price

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Speaker 1: of Salt by Patricia high Smith UM, which is considered

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Speaker 1: a you know, contemporary lesbian classic, a queer Christmas favorite, right,

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Speaker 1: And we're going to be, you know, talking all about

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Speaker 1: Carol um our first experiences with it. We're gonna be

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Speaker 1: talking about lesbian's Christmas gloves, high speed chases, uh, and

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe some of the other works of Patricia

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Speaker 1: high Smith, because this is like a virgin the show

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Speaker 1: where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm Rasdami

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Speaker 1: and I'm fran Toronto. I think we have talked on

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Speaker 1: this podcast before about whether or not we would eat

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Speaker 1: human flesh, honestly multiple times, multiple times. Yeah, in case

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Speaker 1: it hasn't made it to air. I don't think anyone

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Speaker 1: will be surprised to find out that, yes, I would

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Speaker 1: eat human flesh, and not only like would I hypothetically

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Speaker 1: do it, like I would actively like to try. And

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Speaker 1: that is why When I watched the first five minutes

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Speaker 1: of the movie Bones and All, I was like, this

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Speaker 1: is a movie written, are directed, produced, and concepted by

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Speaker 1: Rose damn you like it was so yes, I actually

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Speaker 1: wrote the y a novel and paid Luca Guardanino to

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Speaker 1: adapt it. They didn't even have to option it. I

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Speaker 1: just said, here, please take it. Um. Yeah, So so

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Speaker 1: we've both seen Bones and All. I saw it last week.

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Speaker 1: Um I I loved it. I know you would. So

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Speaker 1: it's so its incredible, no pun intended. I knew that

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Speaker 1: I would love it, and I was so happy to

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Speaker 1: be proven right. It was such a beautiful movie. Like

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Speaker 1: I I was gat and I was gagged. I thought

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Speaker 1: it was so much fun, like NonStop fun on the

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Speaker 1: world building level, like and you could hell that the

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Speaker 1: source material was just like really sharp and fun like

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Speaker 1: so just it's the basis is there's boymate's girl and

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Speaker 1: there's like bisexual cannibal meets bisexual cannibal. Um, and that's

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Speaker 1: what this story is. And in this world, which is

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Speaker 1: in the eighties, UM, cannibals are a somewhat common, not

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Speaker 1: common thing in society, and they're frequently you know, abandoned

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Speaker 1: as kids and so they are like cannibals roaming around

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Speaker 1: society that are kind of and they smell smell each

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Speaker 1: other from far away, and they're all kind of feral. Right.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of specific things about this world

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Speaker 1: of cannibal culture that was so cool, and that was

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Speaker 1: just something that I really just from jump was sucked into. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And and the thing that I liked about the way

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Speaker 1: that this world was set up was that it was

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Speaker 1: a matter of fact and like you learned things as

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Speaker 1: the character learned things. So the main characters this girl

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Speaker 1: who like all her life she's lived with her dad

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Speaker 1: and they've gone from town to town as she has

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Speaker 1: killed and mauld people. And once she turns eighteen, he,

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Speaker 1: you know, like abandons her for good with some information

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Speaker 1: about her family. And Taylor Russell, I think, plays her

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Speaker 1: with this really incredible frankness, like she's naive but in

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Speaker 1: a way where she is very like curious, and I

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Speaker 1: love how matter of fact she is and how she's

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Speaker 1: like obviously it's in these like really intense circumstances, but

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Speaker 1: like makes them very believable and very grounded. And I

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Speaker 1: just thought like she gave such an incredible performance, especially

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Speaker 1: alongside Timothy, who you know, plays this this cannibal who

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Speaker 1: she meets on the road and they fall in love.

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Speaker 1: And I had been wondering, like, would Timothy's start power

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Speaker 1: be like kind of distracting, But I actually felt that

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Speaker 1: it was very additive to the movie because you had

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Speaker 1: to have someone with that much charisma in that role

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Speaker 1: to understand like how they would be drawn to each other.

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Speaker 1: And I think like the Timothy shallowmin of it all

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Speaker 1: worked really well in that I loved Timmy. I really

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Speaker 1: loved that also. So just to your point about Taylor Russell,

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Speaker 1: like I think, yeah, the the naivete of her character

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Speaker 1: was balanced well with the fact that she's a survivor,

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Speaker 1: right like this, this, this whole movie is a story

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Speaker 1: about survival and isolation, like societal isolation and what you

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Speaker 1: do with it when it's out of your control, Like

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Speaker 1: what do you do with the hands that you're dealt

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Speaker 1: like the finger off exactly, you bite the finger off.

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Speaker 1: And you know, this character is accountable, that you know

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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily want to be accountable, and Timote and other

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Speaker 1: you know, forces in in the movie are kind of

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Speaker 1: convincing her that you know, girl, this is who you

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Speaker 1: are so why don't you lean in and figure out

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Speaker 1: what you do like about it, how you can take

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Speaker 1: a bite exactly. So on Timmy, I will say, obviously,

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Speaker 1: this movie can't exist without Timmy was perfect, added the

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Speaker 1: realism and the natural realism that marries with Luca Guardardino's

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Speaker 1: style on a really really cool, like fantastical premise that said,

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I I really don't like being I

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Speaker 1: don't like doing this. I don't like but and yet

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Speaker 1: you do it over and over again and yeah, and

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Speaker 1: yet you bring it to us every ball. I think

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Speaker 1: Taylor Russell is a movie star uncontested Lee and I

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Speaker 1: think she I would watch her in so many other things.

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Speaker 1: I think that next to Timmy, her performance felt a

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Speaker 1: little to y A because what Timmy gave to me

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Speaker 1: was not why A. It was like pure realism. But

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Speaker 1: I felt like the way the movie was written, like

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Speaker 1: specifically the dialogue was extremely why A and I. You know,

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Speaker 1: we were texting after and I was like I felt

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Speaker 1: a little way and you were like, well, it was

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Speaker 1: based on a y A book girl, and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: like I can of course, like I can tell like

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Speaker 1: that is like rich on the page, and so And

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Speaker 1: this doesn't mean that I disliked the movie, but I

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Speaker 1: just I was like I wanted it to either be

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Speaker 1: y A or complete and total realism. And I I

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Speaker 1: did think that Taylor's performance felt a little weak next

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Speaker 1: to Timm's because like he could sell the dialogue more

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Speaker 1: than but when she was selling it, she was selling

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Speaker 1: it like with this kind of upbeat like y Anus

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Speaker 1: is like all I can mustard like that what to

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Speaker 1: to describe her about? I was still like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I wonder if what you're seeing is that she was

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Speaker 1: playing a teenager, because she was, and like I I

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Speaker 1: just honestly like, I guess I get what you're trying

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Speaker 1: to say. But I thought that that all worked really

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Speaker 1: well in the context like of the movie. And I

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Speaker 1: really felt like she and Timothy especially but everyone were

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Speaker 1: all in the a movie, which I think sometimes doesn't

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Speaker 1: happen um like in films that are this massive, not

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Speaker 1: just because like the awards of it all, but like

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Speaker 1: the movie star and like you know, the like atur director.

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Speaker 1: But I like believed their love story. And I also

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Speaker 1: believed even more than that in her journey. I was too,

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Speaker 1: because the thing is she's the the protagonist, Timmy, does

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Speaker 1: not come in for quite a while into the movie,

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Speaker 1: which I appreciate it. I thought it was really cool,

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Speaker 1: and so that's why I felt like Timmy's like performance

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Speaker 1: was like, you know, it felt unintentional. It felt like

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Speaker 1: it unintentionally disrupted the genre that we they were in

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Speaker 1: um and so I personally think that they were not

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Speaker 1: in the same movie, but I do think that they

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Speaker 1: both brought something to the romance that was essential and

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Speaker 1: definitely believable. So I don't feel at any point like

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Speaker 1: the premise or like what they were doing was unbelievable

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Speaker 1: because I was just honestly having so much fun still, Like,

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Speaker 1: I get what you're saying, but I think there's a

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Speaker 1: difference between y A and something that is about teenagers,

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Speaker 1: and I actually thought this might agree. I totally thought

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Speaker 1: this film did a really good job of telling a

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Speaker 1: story that was about teenagers, but like in a way

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Speaker 1: and like from an adult's perspective and not like, yes,

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Speaker 1: it was a coming of age story, but it didn't

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Speaker 1: feel um like juvenile. Yeah, it really was about the

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Speaker 1: dialogue For me, like I felt like dialogue had been

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Speaker 1: lifted from the books because it was clunky. It was

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Speaker 1: over a nunciitive. It was a lot of telling instead

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Speaker 1: of showing. It was full sentences instead of like things

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Speaker 1: that would be naturalistic kind of like fragments, Like I

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Speaker 1: would never have felt like it was to y A

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Speaker 1: if Timmy wasn't in the film, right, Like, I think

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Speaker 1: Taylor brought exactly what the film needed, and then Timmy

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Speaker 1: just brought in a different energy and then I was

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Speaker 1: just like, okay that it just it just like felt

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Speaker 1: different to me, like and I didn't under I didn't

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Speaker 1: buy their chemistry a hundred percent of the time. But

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Speaker 1: like it's that that's not it's not really Taylor, It's

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Speaker 1: not really either there there's faults. Like that's to me,

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Speaker 1: a directing issue, and that's at the end of the day.

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Speaker 1: I think like some of the cinema was beautiful, All

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Speaker 1: the production was beautiful, it's just simply on that element

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Speaker 1: of the direction. I like, I noticed so many of

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Speaker 1: these little like stylistic flourishes um that I really recognized

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Speaker 1: from Suspiria, which is the last film that that Luca

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Speaker 1: Guadnina made, and I just think he has such a

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Speaker 1: clear vision that he's really able to turn towards each

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Speaker 1: of these different worlds. If you look at the past

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Speaker 1: three movies he's made like very different subject matters, but

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Speaker 1: like still like this very consistent gaze and point of view.

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Speaker 1: I also loved the score, which was done by Um

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Speaker 1: Trent Restner of Nine Inch Nails and Atticus Ross. And

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Speaker 1: you know, they've done a bunch of film scores at

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Speaker 1: this point. One of them. Oh I didn't know that.

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Speaker 1: That's so cool. Yeah, I'm speaking of music. I've been

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Speaker 1: listening to the new Waste Blood album a lot. And

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Speaker 1: she's a girl who I have not really been that

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Speaker 1: much into, but you have really been singing her praises

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Speaker 1: for a while. I think. I remember when we went

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Speaker 1: to Joshua Tree last year. You were playing her a lot. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: We were on Vaca and I was like, oh, like

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Speaker 1: we were cooking, I think, and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I want to put on this album that we were

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Speaker 1: that I was talking about, UM, which was Titanic Rising

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Speaker 1: and that album is for the Virgins, so fucking good. UM.

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Speaker 1: But her new album, Yeah, I'm glad you enjoyed it.

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Speaker 1: I loved it too. It was so beauty. It's very pretty.

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Speaker 1: It's you know, I do think it's like sliding into

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Speaker 1: this space that I mean kind of a lot of music.

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Speaker 1: Like it's how I received it at first, which is

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Speaker 1: where it takes a while for me to really figure

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Speaker 1: out what are the standout songs for me, and it

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Speaker 1: all just kind of like blends together. And I think

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Speaker 1: the dream equality of her voice sort of exacerbates that. Um,

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Speaker 1: But now that I've spent more time with it, like,

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Speaker 1: there are some songs that are really standing out to me,

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Speaker 1: Like God turned me into a flower so beautiful, um,

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Speaker 1: hearts to glow. But she like she really does sound

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Speaker 1: so much like Joni Mitchell with like a little Nico

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Speaker 1: thrown in, But it's insane. Nico's such a good comp

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Speaker 1: I had never thought of that. Yeah, she has this

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Speaker 1: kind of like she has one of those artists where

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Speaker 1: her vocal, her very her vocal specificity is what anchors

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Speaker 1: the music right and yeah, I for the versions. I

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Speaker 1: feel like she's like wise what is very like Karen Carpenter,

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Speaker 1: if like she had an electric keyboard and electronic keyboard

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Speaker 1: and like saying about depressive relationships and like being anxious

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Speaker 1: at heart. Total Like Carpentry is a really good comparison.

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Speaker 1: I think it was. This is something that's really cool

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Speaker 1: about her Rose like she was, she grew up like

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Speaker 1: very evangelical Christian and so a lot of like her.

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Speaker 1: A lot a lot of her music is like inspired

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Speaker 1: by church music and inspired by kind of religious fanaticism.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, like, I honestly think that, like

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Speaker 1: with Wise Blood and definitely with Ethel Kaine, like I

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Speaker 1: kind of fall in love with the story of them

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Speaker 1: as much as I fall in love with the music,

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Speaker 1: because I do love seeing the references and when you

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Speaker 1: hear the references so clearly in the music, like I

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Speaker 1: don't know, it just like makes me feel so I

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Speaker 1: just like love seeing like the brain on the track,

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Speaker 1: you know it's it's it's so gorgeous. I love UM.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of brains and other body parts. You were telling

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Speaker 1: me over text that you have started watching the new

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Speaker 1: UM Netflix Wednesday show, Yes, which I can't remember if

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Speaker 1: you if you watch it early for work or some

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Speaker 1: thing or that. I watched it like a month ago,

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Speaker 1: and okay, I had a great time watching it. I

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Speaker 1: think it's so fun. Yeah, I I honestly I had

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Speaker 1: really low expectations. I'm not gonna lie, like, following our

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Speaker 1: Tim Burton episode and and thinking about just like, um,

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Speaker 1: what the things that we come to expect from Netflix shows.

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Speaker 1: I really loved the series right away, like such a

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Speaker 1: pleasant surprise to me. Um, it was very like we

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Speaker 1: need to fill the gap that Sabrina left. Like I

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Speaker 1: felt that hard, but like I'm not mad at it,

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Speaker 1: you know, Like and and Jenna Ortega, who plays Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: is a marvel. Like she's so, she's a star. She's

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Speaker 1: been great and everything that she's done, and it kind

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Speaker 1: of has taken up until this point to find the

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Speaker 1: right vehicle to truly I think unleash her star power

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Speaker 1: because she's done a lot of supporting roles. She's been

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Speaker 1: in a lot of netflixings. Um, she was in X

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Speaker 1: earlier this year, and she she was in the screen

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Speaker 1: movie as well, the Scream Races. She plays the most

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Speaker 1: annoying character in You. She does It's like but again,

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Speaker 1: now she found her vehicle. She just has it. She

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Speaker 1: is perfect at the dead pan Wednesday thing, those like

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Speaker 1: little moments of like um, you know levity, like the

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Speaker 1: sort of like smirk she does. She the dance scene

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Speaker 1: like was so done scene. I think no spoilers for

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Speaker 1: the virgins. It was thus I think there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of the dance. I think there's a lot of young

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Speaker 1: actors especially who would do a role like this and

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Speaker 1: would be sort of rolling their eyes the whole time

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Speaker 1: and like like like l O L can you believe

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Speaker 1: I'm doing this? But she's just like so committed to

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Speaker 1: it that it works and the and like I really

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Speaker 1: appreciate that because like, yes, Wednesday is a character who

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Speaker 1: is like, you know, like the prototypical like um, you

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Speaker 1: know golf girl. Um, she's you know, the black print

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Speaker 1: for lydia diets and and like all the other like sad,

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Speaker 1: angry golf girls who like have guillotines. Um. But she

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Speaker 1: just like really she she is the has to be

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Speaker 1: the straight man in her own show and just like

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Speaker 1: does it so well. That's such a good way of

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Speaker 1: putting it. Like she is someone who's just kind of

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Speaker 1: like bearing witness to like the idiocy around her. Like

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Speaker 1: for if if you haven't watched it yet, like The Virgins,

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Speaker 1: like it's very it's she is the protagonist and her

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Speaker 1: family like isn't in the movie as much as she is,

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Speaker 1: you know, basically starting life at a new academy called Nevermore.

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Speaker 1: It's it's very Monster High meets like Daria, right, it's

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Speaker 1: like murderous Daria, you know, like and and I loved that.

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Speaker 1: And I thought that, like, whoever concept of this, because

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Speaker 1: it wasn't Tim Burton, whoever like concept of the show

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Speaker 1: like understood the like the the contemporary relevance of a

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Speaker 1: character like Wednesday, who has has had like jokes about

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Speaker 1: like anti colonization, like back in like the nineties and

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Speaker 1: early odds, right, like there were things about this character

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Speaker 1: that were like against the world and against the oppressive

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Speaker 1: forces of the world. And you know, the Adams family

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Speaker 1: was a Latin family, even though that didn't really come

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Speaker 1: through in a lot of the iterations of the franchise

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Speaker 1: and was only present in I think the after the cartoon,

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Speaker 1: right is like when they were like, oh, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: guess his first name is Gomez, so like, I guess

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Speaker 1: he's Latin, right, Like, you know, I was reading a

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Speaker 1: little bit about like the history of Um Adam's family

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Speaker 1: and how um when John Aston, the original Gomez Um

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Speaker 1: was cast, they were like, yeah, you need to like

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Speaker 1: lean into like the Latin lover energy of the portrayal

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Speaker 1: or whatever, which is obviously very cringe now, but it

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Speaker 1: was like it just like, you know, there were no

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Speaker 1: Latin characters on screen at all, and so to have

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Speaker 1: um an adaptation that sees like the relevance and also

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Speaker 1: just like how effortless all of that has folded into

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Speaker 1: the world. It was. So it's so fun. It is

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Speaker 1: it is, It's very fun. It's dark, it leans into

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Speaker 1: the darkness. It really doesn't like pull punches because it

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Speaker 1: is a show ostensibly for and about teens. Um. I

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Speaker 1: loved that Christina Ricci was in it. You know, Christina

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Speaker 1: Ricci played Day in the nineties films. Um, and she

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Speaker 1: was so fun in it, and um, yeah, I just

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Speaker 1: had had a good time. Catherine data Jones was Slade

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Speaker 1: when she was on screen. Um. You know, there are

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Speaker 1: some questions I have about the the world and that

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Speaker 1: like I don't think we're like answered as satisfactorily maybe

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Speaker 1: as they could be, But um, I like I would

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Speaker 1: definitely watch the season two. No, I mean honestly, I

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Speaker 1: think that like Riverdale is a camp for this show

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Speaker 1: because there are a lot of twists and turns where

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Speaker 1: if you're a teen or preteen watching this, you're not

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Speaker 1: you don't care about like the kind of like the

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Speaker 1: logistical or believable, the believability of the emotional stakes of

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Speaker 1: these characters when they are sometimes a little thin, but

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Speaker 1: you're because it's so drama and because it's so like

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Speaker 1: such a juicy and eccentric teen show. Like I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I I do have fun watching it, even when I'm

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Speaker 1: just like, oh, this is like a teen show, you know,

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Speaker 1: speaking of reboots. Um I I did try to watch Disenchanted.

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Speaker 1: Try I Ryan, Ryan and I watched thirty minutes of

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Speaker 1: it and had to turn it off. Wait wait, can

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Speaker 1: you explain to the virgins actually like the cultural importance

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Speaker 1: of this moment, because like you two are very like

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Speaker 1: Amy Adams, so you love the original Enchanted, So like

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Speaker 1: what happened? What? What was that? That's what happened? Just

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Speaker 1: like I couldn't do it. I didn't want to. I'm shook.

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Speaker 1: So you're never going to watch the other half of that.

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Speaker 1: I'll probably not half thirty minutes because we were watching

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Speaker 1: it and then paused it to eat and we were like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's got to be halfway over now, and that's when

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Speaker 1: we realized we were only a third of it. We

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Speaker 1: realized we were only like a quarter of the way

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Speaker 1: in and we were like, Nope, given up. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: I'll go back and finish it at some point, but

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Speaker 1: I'm not like in a rush to watch it, to

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Speaker 1: be honest, Like it was better than hocus Pocus too,

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Speaker 1: but it did make me feel the same way. I know,

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Speaker 1: it made me feel the same way, Like it made

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Speaker 1: me feel like they were trying to make the magic

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Speaker 1: happen twice instead of finding something that's like really interesting

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Speaker 1: about this world and like reinvigorating it. Um, I don't.

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Speaker 1: Just from from what I saw, it was just lacking

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Speaker 1: what was so perfect about the original besides that it

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Speaker 1: was like amazing and like the music was great and

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Speaker 1: all this stuff. The original Enchanted is met a commentary

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Speaker 1: on Disney movies, and like, from what I watched, this

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Speaker 1: was not doing any of that. And that's one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons why I Enchanted works so well. It's like

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Speaker 1: maybe the main reason why Enchanted works so well, honestly,

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Speaker 1: we and can we talk about that because it's so true,

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Speaker 1: like the original Enchanted was a subversion of Disney's core

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Speaker 1: principles in like perfection and ideally poking fun in itself. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was. It was ingenious, like, it was

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Speaker 1: so crazy to watch if you're a Disney hallic because

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Speaker 1: it's ripping open all of these you know, things that

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Speaker 1: we don't really allow, that we don't usually see in

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Speaker 1: Disney movies. And so yeah, I agree. I don't think

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Speaker 1: that the next movie was The second movie was amazing.

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Speaker 1: Can I rattle off just like a few observations because

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Speaker 1: I did finish the movie. Um, I felt that Amy

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Speaker 1: Adams had not aged a day. I did not see

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Speaker 1: a single pore on her skin. I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: I thought she looked incredible. I don't know where Disney

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Speaker 1: is getting all of these bad child actors. They're all

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Speaker 1: so so hard to listen to, and then they have

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Speaker 1: to anchor so many scenes and I'm like, are you

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Speaker 1: talking about the daughter? Yes, that's the daughter from Enchanted.

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Speaker 1: It's the same actress. Why why didn't they just pick

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Speaker 1: a new girl? Why did they do that? Did they

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Speaker 1: really do that? Oh my god? I had no idea.

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Speaker 1: Um okay. I also just I um the movie. So

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Speaker 1: do you do you get to like the twitt the

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Speaker 1: kind of twist where you know she'd be where? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So Amy Adams basically makes herself the wicked stepmother and

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Speaker 1: creates world around like very wan Division esque, like has

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Speaker 1: a spell that makes the world of this suburbia enchanted,

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Speaker 1: like fantasy is now on Earth in her suburb and

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Speaker 1: so she is like this wicked stepmother that goes up

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Speaker 1: against Maya Rudolph who was like the evil queen of

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Speaker 1: the world. But Rose she does not sell wicked step

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Speaker 1: mom at all, like it is and and it's so

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Speaker 1: disappointing because I actually think Amy is good enough to

404
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Speaker 1: do that, but like she is, she's not believable at

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Speaker 1: all at what should be a really fun and engaging

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Speaker 1: like like twist of her character, like she can't be evil.

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Speaker 1: And I was so sad that she didn't, like Stick

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Speaker 1: the Landing. When you do watch it, i'd be curious.

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Speaker 1: I mean you, I feel like you would probably feel

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Speaker 1: the same way. Um, but yeah, And then honestly, my

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Speaker 1: last thing that like I think also you would have

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Speaker 1: the same critique is that there of course as a

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Speaker 1: sequence where they go back into the like the animated

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Speaker 1: world of like enchanted, and the animation style is trash

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Speaker 1: Mama like it is like so ugly. It's giving like

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Speaker 1: like millennial like medical ad like like cartoonific and I

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Speaker 1: got immediately. So this is another unusual one where I, um,

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Speaker 1: it kind of took me a while to see Carol.

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Speaker 1: I I did not watch it until Christmas, God bless,

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Speaker 1: I would definitely was aware of it. I just never,

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Speaker 1: you know, got around to seeing it and then realized

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Speaker 1: it was, you know, a glaring omission and watch didn't

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Speaker 1: I mean obviously immediately fell in love. Um, not just

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Speaker 1: a glaring omission in the consumption of the cannon, but

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Speaker 1: you're cannon like. It's such a you movie, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean? Um? And I guess, well, when did

427
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 1: you did you see it when it first came out?

428
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 1: Did you see the theater? Definitely, I'm pretty sure I

429
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: saw it. I did not see it in theater, so

430
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, that would have been really nice to

431
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 1: see in theaters. It is a movie that feels like

432
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: a movie. Is I wonder if Cinispia will do a

433
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: Carol Christmas screen. Of course went back from to l

434
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: A for that, honestly after so I rewatched for the episode,

435
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: and I do feel like it's now something I have

436
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: to watch every year. It is it is. It is

437
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: one of the Christmas movies. So for any virgins who

438
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 1: haven't seen Carol Um. It is the story of terrez Belavette,

439
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: who is a you know, part time seasonal employee at

440
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:02,159
Speaker 1: the department store in nineteen use New York City, and

441
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: one day she waits on Carol Aired, who is a

442
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 1: wealthy suburban housewife, and there's instantly a spark between the

443
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: two of them. Carol leaves her gloves um in the

444
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: children's toy department. Who should say if it was on

445
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: purpose or an accident, yes, where she's been buying a

446
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 1: gift for her daughter Lyndy, a train set. And let

447
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 1: me tell well, she was looking for a doll. It's

448
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 1: so funny the dynamics. Yeah, well that's honestly, Like Carol

449
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: is literally walking into the store and her kind of

450
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: vibe is like, my daughter wants a fucking doll. I

451
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: don't really know why she wants a doll. It's this

452
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: very specific doll. I don't care. And then and then

453
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 1: she's like she's like this fucking kid, Yeah, this fucking kid.

454
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: And then of course this like hot young thing. Like

455
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 1: it's like, actually, when I was young, I wanted a

456
00:27:53,920 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: train set, and Carol clock set, I was like, I'll

457
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 1: take one loaded up in the car, She's like, you

458
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: say a train? Did you say a train? Because there's

459
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: actually nothing more, you know, nothing gayer than a train

460
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: than a train set. Then then not just like it's

461
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 1: not about the train, it's not about transportation, it's about

462
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:18,239
Speaker 1: like creating the train set, like you are actually the

463
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: arbiter and constructor of the whole ass train set. And

464
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: that actually was the spark between them. Phoebe is losing

465
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: it in the booth right now, is so deep. So

466
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: as the story goes on, so Carol leaves her gloves

467
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: and terres who's um. You know, imagination and sexuality have

468
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: been you know, peaked by this older woman, sends her

469
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: her gloves back, and and Carol invites her out to

470
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: the suburbs in Connecticut. I believe that's where she lives,

471
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: doesn't one of those um and they have you know,

472
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: just a very like girls being girls, like night listening

473
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: to records by the fire, smoking cigarette. Yes, their first

474
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: encounters are I wouldn't say platonic, but they don't make

475
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: physical advances on each other, you know. So they go out.

476
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: They eat cream spinach, cream spinach with a poached egg,

477
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: which honestly disgusting, but like also sounds really good. Can

478
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: you imagine bottoming after eating cream spinach and like a

479
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: jammy egg? Like I would be worried that's not something. Well,

480
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: I don't well, I don't know that they're having butt sex.

481
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: You are. I love how you forclosed on the kind

482
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: of like sexual proclivities of but I think you're but

483
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: I think yours. You're thinking of their sex life through

484
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: the lens of a person who has sex with their

485
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: but they and you're grafting your sexuality onto these two,

486
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: which I do know. Sis, women, I don't know what

487
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: you're talking about. I don't I have no, I don't

488
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: think you're really I don't. I don't know if you're

489
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: onto something. But the let's just say, you know, things

490
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: get romantic. Things are also complicated because Carol is in

491
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: a you know, sort of tumultuous divorce with her ex.

492
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: Hard and Carolyn Tourez decide to kind of run away

493
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: together on this road trip. They are pursued by a

494
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: private detective. There's lots of intrigue. It's very twisty, yeah

495
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: and sexy, and they and I think when thinking about

496
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: kind of the cultural impact or maybe just like general

497
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: sentiment about the movie when it came out, Like it's

498
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: so funny, Like Carol really does replicate all the troops

499
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: we've seen before and a kind of gay romance drama

500
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. Right, Like it back to

501
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: our discussion on My Policeman, Like there's like a woman

502
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: who has a straight partner, right, and she has to

503
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: reconcile that in order to you know, chase her you know,

504
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: desire or whatever. But like, their performances are so good

505
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: and the movie is so good, and the tension is

506
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: so expertly built, like you're not even mad that they're

507
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: not fucking for like most of the movie, because I

508
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: think the anticipation is like pristine. Like, yeah, I think

509
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: it's a little different though, because even though, um, you know,

510
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: the the hetero society is an obstacle to their love,

511
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: it's not really an internal obstacle. Like Terres knows right

512
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: away that she wants Carol, and Carol has experienced with women,

513
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: as we see with her friends Abby played by Sarah Paulson,

514
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: who is also an ex of hers. I mean, hello,

515
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: the lesbians, they're still friends. Um I left the I

516
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: got my eye on this red headline. Um, but I

517
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,239
Speaker 1: I agree Yeah, it's it's different, and I think a

518
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: lot of it also has to do with the fact

519
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: that this movie champions the romance, like it's not about

520
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: the all the moving parts, like obviously it's very melodramatic,

521
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: but blanches and the fact that it is more of

522
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: a romance is kind of a deviation from the source material.

523
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever read The Price of Salt,

524
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: did you? I read it after I watched the movie.

525
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: I was on a Patricia Highsmith kick, and The Price

526
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: of Salt is much more well, I mean, if you read,

527
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: if you've read any Patricia Highsmith is what comes as

528
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: a surprise that The Price of Salt is much more

529
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: of a thriller, because that's what Patricia Highsmith did as

530
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:33,719
Speaker 1: she wrote thrillers. And it's much more about them being

531
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: on the run from the detective at the end than

532
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: it is about I would say, like the movie is

533
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: much more the weight is on the beginning of their

534
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: love story and like the romance of it, and then

535
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: that all is kind of like a sort of third

536
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: act thing with the detective happens. It's like the climax, Yes,

537
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: And I would say that is kind of half of

538
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: the Price of Salt is all this stuff with Harge

539
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: and Way. But the thing is that it's still they

540
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: both have very hopeful endings, you know. And it actually

541
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,959
Speaker 1: the ending is even more clearly hopeful in the novel

542
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: than it It's more explicitly like a happy ending in

543
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: the novel than it is in the book. Do you

544
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: remember how it goes down? Yeah, it's with it ends

545
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: with them, you know, like getting back together. But it's

546
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: with this with the movie. It's a little kind of

547
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: like like they both feel weird about it. They're both

548
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: you know, have it feels like Rooney Mara has like

549
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: it has hang ups about getting back into Carol's you

550
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: know grasp again. Yeah, I mean, it it ends with

551
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: with the possibility that they could reconcile because they are

552
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: in the same place once again, whereas in the novel

553
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: it's like more definitively that they are going to get

554
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: back together. Yeah. Okay, wait, so do you think do

555
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: you consider yourself a Carol or a Tress. You're a Carol.

556
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: I'm a Carol. Yeah, You're a Carol, right, because you're

557
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: the one that likes to strut end and be like

558
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: this is how it's going to happen. Yeah, I would

559
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: say I'm I'm the mom in the relationship because this

560
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 1: the milf energy in this movie is unparalleled on real Okay,

561
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: when every time she wears the pairs of every time

562
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:27,240
Speaker 1: she wears the pair of sunglasses over the looks. Looks

563
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: in this movie are out of this world into the

564
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 1: stratosphere everything. I want every item of clothing that both

565
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: of them wear, and this is there's something also about

566
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: movies that take place in this era, and Carol specifically.

567
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: I was also thinking about this with like leak of

568
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: their own smoking is so sexy. Smoking. We need to

569
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: bring back cigarettes. Everybody smoking needs to be brought You could, honestly,

570
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: if you could smoke just without the smell, I would

571
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: be smoking a pack of Day serious. Thank God, It's

572
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: so chic except when you smell, especially when they used

573
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: to smoke indoors. God, do you remember the era when

574
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: we could smoke at restaurants? Why we I mean we

575
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: were children were children. But there was there was a

576
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: a Nathan's Slash like rob something rotisserie chicken restaurant in

577
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 1: my neighborhood growing up where there was a smoking section

578
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: in it. I there was also a diner in Illinois

579
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 1: that I used to wait, I need to find out

580
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: what it's. And when I first started going to bars

581
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 1: when I was in high school and like sneaking into

582
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: gay bars you were you could smoke in there. There

583
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: was this like open late diner in my suburb um

584
00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: in Illinois called Beef and Brandy at a mob smoker section.

585
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: I remember sounds like a place that Carol would take

586
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: Tret and Brandy. Honestly, is a really good restaurant name

587
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: Beef and Brandy? Is it? Yeah? I think it's because

588
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:18,760
Speaker 1: like a franchise, Brandy goes with Beef. And also probably

589
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 1: it's like a I feel like in in this kind

590
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: of like a in this uh dichotomy, I think Carol

591
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: is the Brandy. Okay, so um you Siety answered that

592
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: I'm a Carol because are you a Carol or Terres?

593
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: I'm a Terres. I would like I wish I was

594
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: a Carol, but no, I play defense. But also, okay, actually,

595
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: here's what I think. The dynamic of this podcast is

596
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: your Terres, Phoebees, Carol, and I'm Sarah paul is a

597
00:36:50,239 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 1: smoking gun. Sarah Paulson, I think that's it. I'm not

598
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 1: gonna lie. I actually can definitely own up to being

599
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:21,280
Speaker 1: a Rooney Mara type, like I really play I cannot

600
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 1: tell when people are hitting on me. I absolutely play dumb.

601
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter how entranced I am, Like, all I

602
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: can do is saying how enchanted you are, and was

603
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 1: enchanting to me. I love Rooney Mara, and honestly, we

604
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: were promised a Rooney Marra career that we did not get,

605
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: and this kind of this her being in this movie,

606
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 1: I believe is a direct consequence of that, and so

607
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: I'm okay with it. But she was poised to be

608
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: such a gigantic movie star when The Girl with the

609
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 1: Dragon Tattoo came out, because that was set up to

610
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: be this phenomenon and it never took off quite the

611
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: way that I think people expected it too, because of

612
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: what a sensation the book was. But I am obsessed

613
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,479
Speaker 1: with The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, and for me,

614
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: like Carol, it is an annual Christmas watch. The Girl

615
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: with the Dragon Tattoo is a Christmas movie shot it is.

616
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: She's so Wintery's excellent in that movie. She was nominated, right,

617
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: she was nominated for an Oscar so she okay, and

618
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 1: the press the lead up to that movie, when she

619
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:42,280
Speaker 1: she and Daniel Craig did so many shoots in character.

620
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: There's one where like she's he's like giving her a

621
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: tattoo or he's giving one of them, I don't know.

622
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: And the movie, uh no, they did a bunch of

623
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: photo shoots like where character she was given a tattoo

624
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 1: and like she was naked in these photo shoots. I

625
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 1: mean it. I was so obsessed with the haircuts she

626
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: got for the movie with like the Little Baby Bang,

627
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: and she's so sexy in that and the way they

628
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: fucking it and oh, she was so good. And I

629
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 1: do think that if that movie had been more of

630
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: a hit, she would have been a movie star in

631
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: a different way than she is now, and she might

632
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: never have done Carol. So I guess I'm kind of

633
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: glad that The Girl with the Dragonta too low key flopped. Yeah.

634
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: I didn't know that it flopped. I thought it was

635
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: like such a I mean, she's so fucking good in

636
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 1: that movie. Um well, there was there were never any

637
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: sequel because it wasn't super financially successful. Oh I wonder also,

638
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 1: if like her playing tigerl littly in that Peter Pan

639
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,879
Speaker 1: movie also played a part in Like Her, Like Her

640
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: Like kind of flopped them as an actress. Unfortunately, I

641
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 1: don't because of Hollywood being the way it is, I

642
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 1: don't think that negatively impacted her career, even though it

643
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: should have. But something that should be said about Rooney

644
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 1: was that she was chasing an oscar for like many

645
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: consecutive years, and there were like, you know, rumors about

646
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: I can't remember which one she lost for, but she

647
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 1: lost one of her in one of her oscar races.

648
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 1: She lost, and she reportedly like was like in the bathroom,

649
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: like crying and me, what about an oscar? I would

650
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 1: know I would be upset, but I wouldn't be in

651
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: the bathroom in the bathroom. And I'm not demonizing her

652
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: for that, I'm just providing context for the Virgins. Um.

653
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 1: One of the other things that I was reading about

654
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: was that, um, she you know, there's a lot of

655
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: unfairness and how people decide what is the best supporting

656
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: actress or best lead actress, and that she was best

657
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: supporting in this role. But she's like on screen for

658
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: more of the movie than Kate Blanchet is. Yeah, but

659
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: the movie is called Carol, Yes, and it's also Kate

660
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: fucking Blanchet, like of course she's going to suck the

661
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: air out of the room anytime, any other you know

662
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like obviously they're they're mirrored performances. I

663
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: think they're both equally talented and incredible. But I know

664
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 1: that there was also saltinus about how um, you know,

665
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: best supporting was decided, and I wonder if there was

666
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 1: like drama there. That stuff is all bullshit anyway. Um

667
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: Todd Haynes, who directed this film, you know, has made

668
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: a lot of other very gay kind of movies. I

669
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: haven't seen a lot of his films, But when I

670
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: was a teenager, I was obsessed with Velvet gold Mine.

671
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: Have you seen it? No, I've never even heard of it.

672
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 1: It's um Christian Bale, you and McGregor and Jonathan riz Myers,

673
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: the guy from the Tutors, And it's sort of like

674
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: a Bowie. It's like about these rock stars who are

675
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: sort of like based on Bowie. It's super gay. There's

676
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 1: like full frontal male nudity, a love full frontal man

677
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 1: so good is Have you seen Far from Heaven? I

678
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: have not. I haven't either that's when Julianne Moore flex

679
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 1: her son. Though, right, that snooze to me, but it's

680
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 1: one of it's one. I've gone back to our incest

681
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 1: conversation from the Born episode. We might have edited that, doubt. Um. No,

682
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 1: Far from Heaven is one of multiple movies where Julianne

683
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 1: Moore fox her son. Yeah, one of multiple yes, yes,

684
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 1: and far from Him and she also plays um. She

685
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,399
Speaker 1: also sucks her son in Savage Grace with Eddie Red.

686
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: I think it's Eddie Red when she was sucking her son.

687
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,240
Speaker 1: I don't know, because she likes to play complex female

688
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: characters their son, yes, why not? Why not? It's complex.

689
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:37,280
Speaker 1: But I haven't seen either of these incest um dramas,

690
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: but I would like to do that. That's those the

691
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: types of film that Todd Hands makes, dramas. I don't

692
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: know if I would categorize them like that. There's going

693
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 1: to say more more incests dramas, representation. No, I'm just kidding.

694
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: I'm just the season. Okay, okay, okay, So back to

695
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 1: play with your son's load. I'm dying, okay. You know

696
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: I used to you know, I used to um when

697
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: I was a party producer. I used to throw an

698
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: annual Christmas party called Dick the Balls, not Dick the

699
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 1: Ball the balls. That's the lowest hanging fruit, if you

700
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 1: know what I know. That was the whole point, the

701
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: whole point shut up. Um. Something that's interesting in this

702
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 1: movie specifically, and I guess in the book even though

703
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 1: I hadn't read the book, is the kind of power

704
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 1: a very common power dynamic we see in queer relationships,

705
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:43,280
Speaker 1: maybe specifically lesbian relationships. And I kept thinking about Tar

706
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: when I was watching it, and like, how the edge

707
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,320
Speaker 1: gap of it all, the mommy vibes of it all. Yeah,

708
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,919
Speaker 1: And it's funny to watch two knowing that like Kate

709
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: is like day, Like I think we all at this

710
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: point know that, Like Kate blanche is like kind of

711
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: Queen Latifa style, Like yes, I think that's like an

712
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: industry secret. You know she keeps playing lesbian. Yes, yes,

713
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 1: because she can do that. She's Kate Blanchet. She's literally

714
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: one of the most famous people on the planet. She

715
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 1: can do whatever she wants without talking about her sexuality,

716
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: which someone did ask her about her sexuality once in

717
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: the Carol Press junket and she said very quickly that

718
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 1: she has had many relationships with women, but apparent she

719
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: claims that that quote was taken out of context and

720
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 1: she said, oh, you mean sexual relationships none. Maybe if

721
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: we get Kate an oscar for TAR, maybe she'll come

722
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 1: out and her well, what did it take for Jodie

723
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: Foster to come out? She got like a GLAD like

724
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: an HRC award or whatever, like what was it? We don't.

725
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: I don't want Kate to ever attend a GLAD Awards

726
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: or an HRC benefit. Keep her far away. Kate is

727
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: too high profile for that ship. That is kind of

728
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 1: unfortunately that although I would love if we want a

729
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: GLAD Awards. So if you're listening, we're open to it.

730
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:11,879
Speaker 1: We will appear, Okay, we can confirm appearance. Um. I

731
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: do think actually though that like PR people, I mean

732
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,320
Speaker 1: you would not used to work im Neflix not to

733
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: say that, but to say that, like a lot of

734
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: people that work on PR teams from major celebrities are

735
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: saying that, they're saying like this person is actually too

736
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:29,359
Speaker 1: big for queer media, queer awards, queer things like that's

737
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 1: too limiting, and you know, to it the extent unfortunately,

738
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: Like I mean, but you kind of like true almost

739
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 1: like we used to bear media has not been legitimized

740
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: in this media escape, so of course, like a listers

741
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,879
Speaker 1: don't want to go for it totally. You know, we

742
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 1: as people who used to be queer journalists, Like you know,

743
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 1: like if you go to one major film junket and

744
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: you see that, like as someone from a queer outlet,

745
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 1: and you see the position that you're in that day

746
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: to interview the celebrities, you get a very clear idea

747
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 1: of where you are in the pecking order. Or sometimes

748
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,320
Speaker 1: like when you're on a press line on a red carpet,

749
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 1: if you're like the last person at the end of

750
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: the line, like when you're from a queer outlet, that's

751
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: how it always happened. Oh yeah. And also just like

752
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 1: don't try it like at a junket, like you're not

753
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: gonna go in with the spicy question, like you'll get caught.

754
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: I did, right, but like mostly I made a career

755
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: out of it. But your questions weren't that spicy. They

756
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: were kind of fun, they were produced spicy. I told

757
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: Timothy Shallowby that I was going to bring him a

758
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,959
Speaker 1: peach and that I would have eaten his come out

759
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 1: of it and call me by your name. You didn't

760
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 1: say that, I implied it. He knew what I was saying.

761
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: He was picking up what I was putting down. And

762
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: you know what, he loved it. And he gave me

763
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:56,919
Speaker 1: a hug afterwards, and then he gave me another hug

764
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: when he saw me downstairs. He was stunning. Love did

765
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: not love it so much. But that's another story for

766
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: another time. I just watched Kate play at lesbian every

767
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: damn time, Like, I think she's done it. I think

768
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: she's done it more than just Tar and Carolva now

769
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 1: I can't remember well. Also Oceans eight, it's very obvious

770
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 1: that she and Sandy Bullock kind of thing. It's almost

771
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,439
Speaker 1: feels like Kate kind of has like she could walk

772
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: into a room and have like sexual chemistry with this

773
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: lamp shade, you know what I mean. But only of

774
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: the lamp shade identified as a woman. Yeah, but that

775
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 1: is the power of Kate, like the power of Kate.

776
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: She's she's the lad. Yeah, it's so funny, like because

777
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 1: Gladril was my entry point indicate not to make this

778
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: a Kate episode, but it is kind of a k episode. Carol,

779
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 1: she's Carol Um Gladual was my entry point to Kate,

780
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 1: and Gladriel, to me, is altogether perfectly um encapsulates what

781
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,919
Speaker 1: a Kate Blanchet role should be and at the same yes,

782
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: and at the same time, I think Gladriel is like

783
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: way different from all of her other roles too, because

784
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 1: it's so genre. Um. Well, I guess there's like the

785
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,320
Speaker 1: Thor movie, but I don't. I don't, I don't consider

786
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 1: I don't think about the form. Yeah, I actually I

787
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: revisited Thora Ragnarok somewhat recently, and I don't think it's

788
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 1: actually very good, and I think she's not great in it.

789
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 1: I liked the movie as something that broke open Thor

790
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 1: and made it fun and roller coasterly to watch. I like, Ta,

791
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: You're not as manjor fan, hated Kate's character, hated the

792
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 1: c G. I I mean she was c G. I

793
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 1: for like the movie anyway, it's like but I do

794
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: like that one image that came out of it of

795
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: Kate standing next to taka um okay, so back to

796
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: the power dynamics and the age gap of it all.

797
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 1: I feel like this has become such a huge part

798
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: of Internet discourse, specifically with gen Z the like prudish

799
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: hand ringing about age gaps in relationships. Why, like why

800
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:35,760
Speaker 1: are gen z such prudes? Like why are they boomers?

801
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 1: Kind of yeah, like I've seen they are. I've seen

802
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:46,280
Speaker 1: TikTok's where where gen z are like talking about how

803
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 1: it's disgusting that like a twenty two year old is

804
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: in a relationship with like a thirty four year old

805
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 1: Like what, yeah, no, it's it's silly, it's it's to me.

806
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 1: It's just like group think, right, the all on TikTok.

807
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 1: They're all consuming the same ideas, Like every generation is

808
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 1: done a version of this where we all decide to

809
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: commit to one obscenely bad idea and our belief system,

810
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 1: and like, I think this is just one of those things.

811
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: And you know, like I guess that there's nuance in

812
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 1: age gaps and power dynamics and that like, of course

813
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 1: those things should be acknowledged. But when everyone is you know,

814
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 1: legal and above the age of consent, it's why it's

815
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 1: I don't know what kind of it's like the same

816
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 1: thing as the queer bating thing like stay out of

817
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: people's relationships. Yeah, I think honestly, the way to think

818
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 1: about it is like obviously, like age place, legal has

819
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 1: like legal constraints and like how we talk about relationships

820
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,439
Speaker 1: or whatever. But like, at the end of the day,

821
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 1: the ethical framework for like age gap relationships is all

822
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 1: about power, And you can have an abusive power dynamic

823
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: and an age gap relationship that is perfectly legal, you

824
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,360
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's not about like whether like

825
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: how young the person is or how old the person is.

826
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 1: It's about like what is the makeup of this relationship

827
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 1: and is it healthy for both parties? Are they both

828
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,760
Speaker 1: consenting to it right? And like in Carol, they're clearly

829
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: concerning to it. But I wonder if there was ever

830
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: like a grooming conversation or something. I don't know, I'm sure,

831
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's there's like gen Z kids watching Carol

832
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 1: now and like Carol groomed to rest, like shut the

833
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 1: funk up. Yeah, probably. I I honestly feel like, um,

834
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 1: there wasn't. I feel like no one problematized Carol, Like

835
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 1: there was no I don't remember any sort of controversy,

836
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 1: Like no one was complaining that there were the stray

837
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: actors and queer roles, you know what I mean. Another

838
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:47,799
Speaker 1: thing I fully don't care about anymore. Yeah, I kind of.

839
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 1: I care a lot about like sis actors and trans roles. Yes,

840
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: that that's different because that that has real world consequences

841
00:51:56,200 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: because as anyone who you know has watched Disclosure knows

842
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 1: um that that trans women being portrayed by men in

843
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: movies perpetuates the idea that trans women are men and

844
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 1: women's clothing, which leads to real world violence being enacted

845
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 1: on trans women. So that has real world consequences. But

846
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: a straight actor planning a gay character has no real

847
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 1: world impact outside of more straight actors getting cast as

848
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: gayer characters, Like there's no consequence to it, like I

849
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: simply don't care about it, like I Yes, I think

850
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 1: it would be great if there was a there were

851
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: more equal opportunity for gay actors to both play gay

852
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 1: characters and straight characters. I wish there wasn't an industry

853
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 1: bias that shut gay actors out from playing straight characters,

854
00:52:55,239 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 1: or shut gay actors out from, if they do play

855
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: a gay role, from doing anything besides playing gay. I

856
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: think that's something that you see more often when actors

857
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: talk about that, they talk about the ways in which

858
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:15,919
Speaker 1: they are pigeonholed. But I like I just fully don't

859
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 1: care about it anymore. To me, the fallacy in thinking

860
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:25,720
Speaker 1: that it doesn't matter, you know, what orientation this person

861
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 1: is is like mostly it mostly depends on whether or

862
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 1: not this person is a good actor, because Cape Blanchett

863
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 1: of course can carry this role and stick the landing.

864
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 1: This because I feel like we've talked about this before,

865
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:39,919
Speaker 1: but like, to me, a lot of what it comes

866
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 1: down to it was like do you stick the landing?

867
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,279
Speaker 1: And like that's why no one. I mean people kind

868
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 1: of complained about calling by your name, but like faggots

869
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: love that movie because they're well, I mean, I don't

870
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 1: think Army Hammer is actually that great, but to me,

871
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 1: the Timothy is so good in it that you have

872
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: no choice but to love the film. And so to me, like,

873
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 1: I think that I get frustrated when straight actors are

874
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: in queer roles and they're also like not great actors.

875
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 1: And if I don't see like the nuances of of

876
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 1: what you want to see in like a queer character,

877
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 1: then I think that, yeah, it should be problematizes, you know,

878
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:15,720
Speaker 1: like I think that should be kind of the metric

879
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 1: is like is this contributing something good or bad to

880
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 1: like our canon at the end of the day, like

881
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 1: is it a good story? Like that is the thing

882
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 1: that I care about the most, Like is it a

883
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: good story? But what do you mean good by like interesting?

884
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 1: Or are you like a moral good? No? No? No?

885
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: Was it executed well? Like was it Carol? Was it

886
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 1: called me by your name? That? Yeah? Um, it's funny

887
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:42,439
Speaker 1: though also just like maybe seguing out of this, like, um,

888
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: Cape Bunchet was like asked about this, I think again

889
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: during her like Tar Junket or whatever, and she you know,

890
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:52,239
Speaker 1: was talking about how she thinks that like it's important. Well,

891
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:53,920
Speaker 1: I'll just read the quote. She says, I think it's

892
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 1: important on a society level, you know, to to like

893
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: talk about queer stuff or whatever and homogeneity in any

894
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 1: art arm as death. But she kind of goes on

895
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 1: to say that like anything we make like doesn't need

896
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 1: to be political politicized, right, Like it's not her job

897
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 1: to politicize the art. It's like the audience's job to

898
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 1: interpret it however they want or whatever. And you know,

899
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 1: there's also like this moment where she says, like someone

900
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 1: asks her about like the sexuality of Tar, she goes, oh,

901
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 1: I didn't think about the character of sexuality at all,

902
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, I mean, I was like,

903
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 1: well you you you you had you had to do something.

904
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: I mean it that I think that Kate is like

905
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 1: a brilliant person. Like everything she said in like her

906
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 1: kind of answer to this totally made sense. And I

907
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 1: was like, work, d Evin, like you know what you're

908
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 1: talking about, when she was like, I don't really, I

909
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 1: didn't think about the sexuality all. I was like, it's

910
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 1: very like I don't see color, you know, like it's

911
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 1: kind of giving the same vibe, even those those are

912
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 1: obviously very different like frameworks. But I don't know. I

913
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:01,799
Speaker 1: was just like, come on, like, why do actors keep

914
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 1: doing this like we're like human beings that have sex. Well,

915
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 1: I think a lot of it rests on the fact

916
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 1: that we expect actors to like say really profound things

917
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:17,280
Speaker 1: in interviews, and their actors they're not necessarily like particularly

918
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 1: smart or you know, interesting, they're like usually like attractive

919
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 1: and can act. Yeah, oh god, which is kind of

920
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 1: all I need from them. Yeah. Um, have you ever

921
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:38,240
Speaker 1: been in a relationship where that had an age gap? Um? Yes, well,

922
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 1: you know, my a lot of my very early sexual

923
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:44,879
Speaker 1: experiences when I was still a teenager were with older men.

924
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:48,080
Speaker 1: And then when I was first in college, Yeah, I

925
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:54,839
Speaker 1: was very into older you know, kind of like daddy types. Yeah,

926
00:56:54,920 --> 00:57:01,839
Speaker 1: I mean I was seventeen, like fucking people I shouldn't maybe,

927
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 1: but the consensual that's more about them, and I wanted

928
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 1: it so badly. I um, I I would love to

929
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 1: be with the daddy type. I would love to be

930
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 1: with a mean mommy type. Actually, like I would love

931
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 1: any sort of like power. I would love like an

932
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 1: older but I've only I've dated. My age gap relationships

933
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 1: are like dating someone who's like five years younger than

934
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 1: me or whatever, And it's so it's it's so when

935
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 1: it's funny because like age guests don't matter as much

936
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 1: when like your past your thirties. I feel like I

937
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 1: definitely have kind of a hard line. And this is

938
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 1: like where my words about you know, uh, like prudish

939
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 1: handwringing over age gaps does come back to bite me

940
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 1: in the ass a little bit because I don't necessarily

941
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 1: see like a problem with it. But I also would

942
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: not want to date or even really fuck someone younger

943
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 1: than like five, just because I don't know what I

944
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:04,880
Speaker 1: would talk to them about. Right, No, I'm saying when

945
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 1: they're both past their thirties, which I think is that

946
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 1: the case of Carol, because isn't I think young? Okay,

947
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 1: yeah that yeah, yeah, that's the vibe. Um. Anyways, my point,

948
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 1: My point is like it's just interesting how we create

949
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 1: like weird kind of like islms about like what's good

950
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 1: and bad based on something that is actually like pretty arbitrary.

951
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 1: My early sexual experiences, I was baby and then uh

952
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 1: now I'm usually more mommy. Um, but I don't really

953
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,919
Speaker 1: want to be mommy. I don't want like, I don't

954
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 1: want to take I like the idea of like taking

955
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 1: care of someone in a way, um you know, like

956
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 1: I love a twin. I love a twin, but um no,

957
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 1: I mean someone who I truly have like a generational

958
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: divide with. I don't know that it's gonna work. Let

959
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 1: me tell you. That's what I was experiencing. I was

960
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 1: dating someone who was gen z and it was like

961
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 1: it was bad. It was I mean, it wasn't It

962
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 1: was loving. There was a lot of love and like

963
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 1: this person was very mature beyond their years. But it

964
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 1: was at the end of the day, I was like,

965
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 1: this is a generational to flood and I actually don't

966
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 1: have anything with you with in common with you, um,

967
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 1: but I am always mean mommy, Rose. Like literally in

968
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: every single age cap relationship I've ever been, and I've

969
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 1: been in quite a few, I'm always mean mommy, and

970
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 1: I do need to be needed. Like I love taking

971
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:39,040
Speaker 1: care of people, but like I would love to be

972
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 1: taking care of Rose. I would love I would love

973
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 1: to be the Rooney Mara. I see you don't think

974
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 1: you say that in theory, but I don't know if

975
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 1: you would be able to accept that kind of care.

976
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 1: I think I think from the right partner I would.

977
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, you're It's true. I do have a

978
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 1: hard time asking for help or accepting help a lot

979
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 1: of the time. But I still you need to work

980
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 1: on that. I do. I do need to work on that.

981
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 1: We gotta get you into therapy. I so virgins slide

982
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 1: into our d M s at like a virgin for

983
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: on Instagram and tell us are you a Carol? Are

984
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 1: you a terres? Would you use a leather glove if

985
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:27,920
Speaker 1: you were fisting someone? We want to know. I'm your

986
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 1: co host, Rose damn you. You can find me anywhere

987
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 1: online at Rose Damn You and I'm Franterata. You can

988
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 1: find me at friends, squish co, anywhere you like, subscribe

989
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 1: to Like a Virgin anywhere you listen to podcasts, Leave

990
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 1: us a rating on Spotify for a review on Apple

991
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:47,600
Speaker 1: podcast We appreciate it so much. Like a Virgin is

992
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 1: an I Heart Radio production. Our producer is Phoebe Unter,

993
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:55,440
Speaker 1: with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane Chitch

994
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 1: and Nikki Etour