WEBVTT - Alta Kockers w/ Michael Kostroff 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.960 Of the law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable. 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:06.760 We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:07.640 vicious felonies. 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:11.200 These episodes are based on. These are our stories. Dune Done. 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.880 Hello everyone, and welcome to That's Messed Up and SVU podcast. 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:34.240 I'm your host Kara Klank. 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:38.360 And I'm Liza Traeger and we love SVU. We hate criminals, 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:40.879 but we talk about them. And then we talked to celebs, 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:41.520 which we love. 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:46.920 We love celebs, but first we love the chart. 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:47.640 We chant out weeds. 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:49.400 How we plug the tour. I'm gonna just get let 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:51.800 me get it out of the way up top. We 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:54.600 As of this episode's release, we will have just wrapped 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:57.360 up our full Southern leg and thank you to everyone 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:01.960 who came out to those shows. We will be back 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:06.280 out in November. Guys, we're going to you Midwest. We 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:08.480 are coming back to Chicago. We are going to be 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:11.759 at Zany's in Rosemont on November thirteenth. 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:14.039 Come out and see us in the Burbs. It's a nice, 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:15.360 big venue, it's huge. 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:17.840 I love Zane's in downtown Chicago as well, But you 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:19.200 might not be able to get a ticket because that 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:21.440 one is selling out pretty quick, and so come out 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:24.240 to Rosma and see us. I don't believe there is 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:26.320 an Alan Jackson's I love this bar anymore? 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:29.360 But is that what it was called? But I know 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:30.640 it's Toby Keith. 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:32.600 I think, oh, Toby Keith's I love this bar. But 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:35.039 you can still find some good stuff out there. We 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:39.959 will be then bopping over to Indianapolis on the fifteenth 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:43.679 of November, Columbus on the sixteenth, Cleveland on the seventeenth, 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:47.680 Detroit on the eighteenth, and then Madison, Wisconsin on the twentieth. Guys, 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:50.160 please get your tickets, come see us. So many people 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:52.280 are writing us saying I didn't get tickets for the 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:52.960 DC show. 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:53.560 I waited. 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:55.840 Don't wait because some of these shows sell out, and 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:59.040 we really want to see all of you. And you know, 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:01.160 have you see our Life Live show, which is, in 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:06.040 my opinion, really fucking fun. And that's it, Lisa, what's 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:08.520 going on? I want to tell you a story when 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:10.959 you get a chance to tell me a story, Well, 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:14.760 just something really funny I thought happened to me in Boston. 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:17.400 So I went to Boston for a wedding this past 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:19.480 weekend and we're in the time machine. So I know 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:21.840 some of you have like that happened weeks ago. It did, 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:25.880 and I'm walking It's the day before the wedding, so 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.880 I'm like with my friend Jackie. We're walking the streets 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:32.079 and we are maybe going to go to another bar, 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:37.359 and this guy behind us, and he's probably twenty five 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:40.240 feet behind us, he's a little ways behind us, goes, hey, 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.079 excuse me, and we both turn around and go yeah, 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:46.280 and then he just starts walking quickly towards us, which 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:48.880 was so weird, and both of us just like got 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:52.040 into attack stances immediately, because like, why aren't you why 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:53.000 did you stop talking? 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:54.560 Why are you coming towards us quickly? 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.639 It's a very brightly lit area of Beacon Hill, which 0:02:57.680 --> 0:02:59.560 is like a very nice area of Boston, And I'm 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:01.280 kind of like, I don't think you're going to attack us, 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:04.080 but what the fuck is going on? And he goes, oh, sorry, 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.679 I'm just looking for clink and I go, wait, what 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:11.079 the fuck is going on? And Jackie goes like, I 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:13.880 thought maybe he listened to your podcast. And then I 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:16.200 remembered that when I was trying to make a reservation 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:19.600 for dinner earlier, there is a place called clink as 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:23.480 in clinking your glasses right two blocks from where we were. 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:25.840 So this guy was just rushing towards us to ask 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:29.760 us where the bar clink was, and I was having 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:31.840 a full out of body experience where I thought I 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:34.079 was getting attacked, then I thought I was getting recognized, 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:36.000 and then it turned out I just had to help 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:39.960 this man look at Google Maps and he was like, 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:41.960 he was like, oh sorry, like it was like a 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.600 drunk like Boston guide. He was like, oh sorry, like 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:46.560 I didn't realize, and I was like, yeah, you just 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.080 can't like rush towards two women on a dark street 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:49.640 at like on. 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.360 A Friday night at eleven o'clock. This is your brain, sir. 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:55.440 Yeah, but clink reminds me of clink clink from the 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:56.840 Jersey Housewives, you know. 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:01.400 Oh yes, but you know, always been associated with the 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:02.360 sound of clinking. 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:05.320 Because that's about it. That's more positive. 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:07.760 I do also want to say we both saw Don't 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:09.040 Worry Darling separately. 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:11.800 Oh yes we did. I went and saw it with 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.000 my husband for a little date night. Lisa saw it 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:18.800 in New York with a pal, and I mean so 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:20.479 much hype I wanted to see. 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:21.280 There was truly. 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:24.000 It was annoying because a bunch of stuff I wanted 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:27.320 to see I just missed that weekend, Like I just missed, Nope, 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:29.440 Lisa's movie that now I'm gonna have to watch it 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:30.040 on streaming. 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:33.520 I well you can. Also, yeah, thank you to all. 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:35.520 Of the listeners who just sent us clips that they 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:37.680 took in the theater of Lisa's. 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:39.120 Park, because now I feel like I have seen it. 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:41.479 I can post the photo. 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:43.760 I wonder if it's time where if I could finally 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:46.440 put it on the grid and be like, listen, I 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:48.400 was in this and I worked with a horse. 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:51.799 Yeah, I think it's like maybe once it's on streaming, 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:53.600 but like, yeah, it's not in at least in LA. 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:55.080 It's not in theaters anymore. 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:56.760 Because I wanted to see that and I wanted to 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.680 see Boddy's Body's Bodies. Both had just left the theaters, 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:03.440 and so I wasn't super hot on seeing Don't worry, Darling, 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:05.880 but it's was the best. Everything was so horror, and 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:07.400 I didn't really want to see horror if it wasn't 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:10.640 Body's Body's Bodies, because that seemed like funny horror. So 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:14.560 we went and I really enjoyed going to see it 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:16.599 and watching it. But I found a lot of holes 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:18.600 in it that I did talk to Liza about. 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:20.640 Yeah, I didn't mind the holes. 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:23.839 Like the moment I saw the trailer before all this drama, 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:26.359 I was like, from the moment I saw the trailer, 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:28.600 I'm like, I'm seeing this, this is a genre. I 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:35.080 and joy I like a housewife thriller. What's going on? 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:37.200 Yeah, I like That's what I liked about it because 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.560 it said it said like thriller. When I was looking 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:41.599 at all the different movies, because my husband was at 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:44.479 first like really, and I go, I'm sorry, I'm not 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:46.760 going to see one of these nasty, rip up people's 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:51.200 bodies horror movies. And there really wasn't. I'd already seen Bros. Which, 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:54.279 by the way, everybody goes see Bros. It's fucking so funny, 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:59.160 and so there was like nothing really else. But I 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.200 had a really good time going. And as I said 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:06.520 to you, gorgeous, like visually gorgeous. Every output on Florence 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.839 Pew is like it was born to be on her body, 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:13.600 like it was just like sewn around her body. Everybody 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:15.880 looked so good that her acting was amazing. 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:19.760 No, it was an enjoyable thing. 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.120 It's like I feel nowadays, it's like this is the 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:24.400 worst that says the best, that says a scan and 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:26.599 it's like, can I just watch a movie and have 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:28.640 a good time, Like you know what I mean. 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:30.200 It's like I had a good time. 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:33.400 So like my opinion where it's like we're forgetting that, 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:34.520 I don't know. 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:36.000 I loved it. I had a great time. 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:40.200 I had a great time and visually gorgeous and amazing acting. 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.200 And I also thought, okay, there was like a couple 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:46.200 things I think like I would have done differently, or 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:48.200 I like didn't like some of the rules, Like I 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:50.080 didn't understand some of the rules of the world, as 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:50.599 I told you. 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.040 But those things don't bother me. 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:55.640 Our friend Kate Berlant is in it, and she's so 0:06:55.760 --> 0:07:00.200 funny asif Ali so funny in it. 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.400 And there's an SVU guy in it. There is a detective. 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:05.560 Yeah, and the guy who plays cal Doon, the guy 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:08.240 who plays cal Doone is in it, the one who's 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:09.800 like the one who has a fake that he's in 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:12.600 a relationship with Rollins for the green card guy. 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:16.600 And I deserve some loving too, So I studied. I 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:17.040 liked it. 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:19.480 I thought it was exciting. I enjoyed watching it. I 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:22.800 was like, what's going on. Olivia Wilde's a great actress 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.480 and like give it to me. I don't know, but 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:28.800 there are some issues for sure. But it was hard 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:32.840 to find like really in depth good analysis because everyone 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.480 was into the drama and all of that, and so, yeah, 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:39.040 like a little frustrating that it's not Yeah. 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:42.400 Which I do feel like there is a pretty heavy 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:46.680 like undercurrent of misogyny going on where it's like, no 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:49.080 one would care about this if it was happening to 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:51.240 a male director, like, oh, you're fucking the female star 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:53.720 of your movie, Like no one would care, you know, like. 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:57.680 Yeah, actors not getting along, Christian Bale screaming at people. 0:07:57.960 --> 0:07:59.600 Yeah, just like so annoying. 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:03.520 But it's and I hope she gets to direct and 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.280 have a great career and like fuck everyone and we'll 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:09.560 like it'll be the Britney Spears and then in the 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:11.720 future it'll be like, Wow, we really fucked up, and 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:12.800 you know we never learned. 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:17.880 We're just like horrific mammals on the planet. Yeah, Monica Lewinski, 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:19.640 a lot of other people we've fucked over. 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.640 Uh it is this episode is wide, releasing on ten 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.440 twenty five. I know we have another episode beforehand, but 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:30.520 please register to vote if you have not registered to vote. 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:33.680 I just saw someone in their stories put that there. 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:36.320 They got an email that was like, hello, your voter 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:38.760 registration has been canceled, and it was like, not something 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:39.160 they did. 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:41.920 They didn't move, they didn't do anything. So just double check. 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.480 Just hop on there and double check that you're getting 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:48.360 your ballot Cuz I really cannot believe the amount of 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:52.600 like money that is going towards this, like football player 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:54.440 who paid for an abortion but is saying that no 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.640 one else can have abortions. Like I just relate you guys. 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:00.120 You got to vote for Warnock and George. 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:00.600 Please. 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:06.160 And that's my that's my daily soapbox about politics. Yeah, 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:09.360 everything sucks my weekly. Well, we don't have to go 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:16.160 right into everything sucks. I'm just telling people to vote, okay. Also, 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:17.960 I wanted to give a shout out to Helen. 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:20.600 She was wearing a sweater at a show in West Covina, 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:22.800 and I said, I'm going to shout you out, bitch, 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:24.600 and so I'm doing it. 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:27.199 So that's that we think it for. 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.200 The flag case case little pink. 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.040 Flag but it reminds me of The Simpsons. Do you 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:33.400 know the episode I'm talking about. 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:35.800 Homer has a little flag of the library and he 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:39.839 goes go school. It's the Thomas Edison episode where he's 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:42.040 trying to invent stuff and he's at the school library 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:44.440 and they're like, are you a student here, sir, and 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:47.440 he goes, yeah, go school, and it's just school on 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:48.200 his little flag. 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:51.040 Oh my god. 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:54.960 I took a tour of a potential elementary school for 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.640 Rosie and they took us to the library and I 0:09:57.720 --> 0:10:02.640 like breathed in and the mel like took me back 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:05.480 like I've been to like regular libraries, but they're just 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:08.319 so big, like kid libraries are so small that like 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:12.439 the scent of library book was just like concentrated, and 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:14.240 like me and all the other parents on the tour 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:16.560 were like, oh my god, I've literally been transported like 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:20.240 I'm in third grade. Like it was really wild. The 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.240 library smell, Oh my gosh, do you know what I mean? 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:25.880 I do. I couldn't think of a book smell. 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:30.199 I can't really fantasize or feel a library smell at 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:30.839 the moment. 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:32.640 Like when I walked in, it just reminded me of 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:34.920 like the cards. We would like sign our names out 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:36.840 on books, like maybe I'm a little older than you, 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:38.280 and those were gone by the time you were in. 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.000 We had cards, but it was had cards a stamp. 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:42.280 It was a stamp with the date. 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:44.560 Well you did a stamp for the date to return, right, 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:46.160 But then you would sign your name and like every 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:47.360 time you checked out a book you could see like 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:54.880 the last six people who took it out. Oh wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, god, 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:56.040 everything's cool. 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:59.040 What episode are we doing? Where are we? 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:01.319 We got a good episode for you. Let's get started. 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:05.559 You're gonna love it. 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:10.640 All right, guys, we're doing Alta Cockers. 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:11.360 So annoying. 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:16.079 Such a Warren light bullshit. But it's not season twenty. 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:18.400 I think that's him. Warren is still here. Warren is 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:20.480 still there at twenty. He came back at like seventeen 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:21.040 or something. 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.640 Oh so, just the episode title is ten, So Alta 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:28.120 Cockers is ten. Okay, Oh no, you're right. It must 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:28.640 not be him. 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:30.719 He must have come back in twenty one, because you're right, 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:34.160 that's not that's not twenty letters. You're right, you're right, 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.560 So he's not there. This all the hackers though, did 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.040 you look up what it means. No, Oh okay, I 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:41.640 looked it up when the episode came on because I 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:42.440 was like, what the fuck? 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:43.880 They never say it? What does this mean? 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:47.960 It's like a Yiddish thing that means like old fuss 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:49.080 budgety old people. 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:52.559 You know, like a perfect title. So you've been wanting 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:54.400 to do this since the beginning. I feel like when 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:56.800 we were pitching this podcast, you brought up this episode. 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:58.599 Well, yes, because I'll tell you this was one of 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:02.280 the test episodes I did with my other my original 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:05.400 co hosts. We did this as a test episode, but 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:08.160 I think she did the crime and I did the episode. 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:10.680 So this time I did the crime and I was 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:14.280 remembering all of it that she had told me. But yeah, 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:16.720 so somewhere there's like an episode of me and Jackie 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.760 Zebrowski talking about this episode. But that's why I talked 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:21.560 about it in pitching because I had like already gone 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:22.320 through it and done it. 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:24.960 Yeah, I remember you being obsessed with this, so I 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.120 am happy that we finally got to do it. 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:27.600 Well. 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:30.520 Also, the crime, the crime, the people this is based 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:32.640 on is like kind of New York folklore and like 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:34.280 people I had never heard of, So that's why I 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:35.520 thought was interesting about it. 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:38.199 Yeah, and it is a good episode. 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.800 It opens on a close up of some red lipsticked 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:46.559 lips and there's like a poetry erotic reading happening. I 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:48.800 would say, we don't know exactly like a book. I mean, 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:50.280 it's going to be a book. But at first I 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:52.679 was like, what is this sex show? 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:54.880 This shop that they're in. Do you recognize this? 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:57.959 I'm I'm almost positive this is the Housing Works bookstore 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:03.000 in like uh in like Sova, Houston, Yeah, soho because 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:05.920 Jared had a comedy show here forever and this really 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:06.680 has the vibes of it. 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:08.680 So if you know, But I don't remember there being 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:11.839 a balcony at the Housing Works one. 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:15.240 There was in a part of it maybe I don't know. 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.040 We got to find out where this was. I need 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:19.280 to know. I'm gonna like google it. But keep going. 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:23.240 So there's a microphone and then it cuts to a 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:26.600 wide shot and it's a bookstore but it's lit like 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:29.960 a nightclub and there are strung Christmas lights all over, 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:32.640 so you know these people are hip. We see the 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.120 reader performers wearing an off the shoulder top with a 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:39.959 collar around their neck, and we hear look I hear 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.640 Tyota his tongue felt like a worm. And then as 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:46.600 she continues, ominous music starts to play and it pans 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:50.080 up to the balcony level, and then there's a spotlight, 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.559 and so we just start seeing everyone. But there is 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:54.760 a spotlight on like a man that's back lit by 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:56.760 the light. And I don't think we're supposed to trust 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:57.080 this man. 0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.839 This is like a very moody book reading. I feel 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:00.640 like book. 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.840 Reading is usually just like someone sitting up at a table, 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.280 like regular lights, and this is like sexual mood lighting. 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:06.800 Oh. 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:08.439 I was gonna say the book that I brought with 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:12.079 me for this trip, I brought Arden Marine's book. 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:16.280 Oh, straight out a Little Compton, Little miss Little Compton. 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:18.560 Yeah, but it's good. 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:22.400 I started it. But I'm like you, reading is tough. Yeah, 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.480 it's so tough. Yeah, it's a very moody reading. There's 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:27.480 a man we shouldn't trust. And then they focus on 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:31.000 a goate mustache man who's very into the reading. Couples 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.480 are kissing, they're rubbing on each other as they listen, 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:36.760 and then they zoom in on another man's face and 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.320 then another man's So it's like, okay, it's enough. 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:40.440 I don't need this parade. 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.400 But people are clapping, which is nice, and there's a 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:47.600 blonde bob with bangs. So there's just like a lot 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:51.680 of people. Everybody. Everyone is shady. That's what I wrote. 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:54.640 Everyone is shady. And now the lights are fully on 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:56.880 and it's a book signing time. And so the book 0:14:56.920 --> 0:15:00.200 is called Barracuda by Bobby O'Rourke. 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.040 Blue Barracuda. I think it's called right Oka, Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:05.920 blue Bear Barracuda, which which I only mentioned because all 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:08.240 the lighting is very blue and like, I feel like 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:08.920 it's part of it. 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:10.400 You're totally right. 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.480 So while there's so while Bobby is signing the books, 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:17.560 there's a man behind her, probably like pr editor or 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:19.680 something like that, but he does look like he would 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:22.600 work at the Trump administration, and he's busy typing on 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.520 his cell phone while listening to, you know, the people 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:28.760 meeting Bobby. Everyone is now kissing Bobby's ass, like, oh 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:31.400 my god, you're amazing to read, this is extraordinary. 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:32.960 How did you do it? Oh my god, You've had 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:34.040 such a hard life. 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.080 And they ask Walker, the blonde floppy hair man, like 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.720 how did you find this person? And he says that 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:45.560 Bobby actually found him so pretty wild, and then the 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:47.560 woman says, color me green. 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:50.840 Not sure what that means, because jealousy is green is 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:54.280 the color of jealousy, so it's called me jealous, so 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:56.720 it's like, color me green, like I'm green, I'm green 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.920 with envy. Essentially, she wants to write no because she 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.240 he's another agent and is like, I wish a huge 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:04.960 bestseller just fucking walked off the street into my life. 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:07.560 That would be amazing. Yeah, that is okay. 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:09.960 So they talk business and then Bobby's over it and 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.680 walks away as the Glitterati and Walter continue to talk 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.200 about how amazing she is, and then she grabs a 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:18.000 drink and sneaks off quick down the stairs to escape, 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:19.840 and then it cuts to a shot of the city, 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:24.040 bad news, police lights and someone saying it's a nasty one, sonny, 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:27.040 and that we are here with Careese and Finn's voices 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:30.440 on the scene and they're talking so basically book reading, 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:33.240 signing cocktails. Then the writer comes out for a smoke 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:37.800 and then brick to the head rintse dry repeat, and 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:40.200 Benson's on the scene and the men ask if she 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:42.520 was raped, and she wasn't, so Crisy's like, then, what 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.720 the fuck are we doing here? And then Benson explains, well, 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:48.760 she's not a she physically anyway, we might be looking 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:49.600 at a hate crime. 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:54.080 Which it's funny that this episode was only from twenty eighteen, 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:56.920 and like, now saying that would not be it would 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:58.360 not be cool for Benson to say that. 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:04.560 Yeah, but but then how would you say it if 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:06.399 it's like that, If it's a hate crime, you'd be like, oh, 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:07.320 this is a trans woman. 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:09.880 Yeah, you'd be like, crime, she's trans, so this could 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:10.520 be a hate crime. 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:14.040 Yeah, yeah, so and then they show her face laying 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.240 on the cold cement with a pool of blood around her, 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.359 and straight to the credits. Yeah, so now we're back 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.000 from the credits and straight into a walk and talk. 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:23.280 But this is speedy. 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:26.520 This is like an Olympic style pace of walking and talking. 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:29.440 Chrisy says, we pulled prints from the brick, but they're 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.800 not in any database. But Bobby is sixteen years old. 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:34.000 That's sad. 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:34.480 Ye. 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:37.840 They also keep saying Bobby is a he and he 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:40.080 ran away from home. He gave a fake address, and 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:42.200 then yeah, I wrote, like season twenty, what the fuck 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:45.880 is going on? But Rollins is reading the book and 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.560 Bobby's life was tough and they pulled tricks. 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:48.720 To get by. 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:53.040 So then Creasy says the word transgender, and Rollins is like, actually, no, 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.480 Bobby isn't. He just realized he made more money writing 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.040 as a girl and decided to go with it. So 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.840 maybe Svo is correct in all of this. I don't 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:04.200 know how they knew it or Rollins knows it. 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:04.880 Better, I guess. 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.360 And how does Rowlins know that? Like does he say 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:10.040 in the book, I'm actually a boy. I just dressed 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:12.480 up like a girl, Like no, because that would fuck 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.920 it up. Maybe they talked to the yeah guy who 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:19.720 knows yea. But so that's different. So that's just because 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.480 like yeah, more like drag. Well he's just across, he's 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:24.600 just cross cross dressing. 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:25.879 Yes, that's what it wears. 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:30.119 So Finn has something and he has the video from 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:33.080 the bookstore after party and he was like, well, if 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.680 you're counting, Bobby had three drinks. And then this man 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.280 on the tape is seen following Bobby out back. So 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:41.480 check in with the bookstore, live says, and let's get 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:44.000 this guy. So we're in the bookstore and the workers 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:45.840 looking at the picture and is saying this is a 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:47.720 tragedy and that Bobby was going to be one of 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:48.320 the greats. 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:52.400 He's really distressed and he can't I d the guy though. 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:55.159 There was a short guest list, but then it was 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:58.120 first come, first surf. If you want info on that list, 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:00.760 go talk to Bobby's publisher. The worker says, so our 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:04.240 detectives had to pitch Dark Press. So Walter is chatting 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.040 and explains their journey together. One day, he got a 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.480 manuscript and read it in one day, but there was 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:11.639 no name or address on the story, and then he 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:14.479 received a call a few days later, and this changed 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.959 Walter's life forever. So Walter is saying, like, Bobby has 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:19.919 been through so much that even with the success of 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:21.760 the book and everything that's happening, and it got him 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:25.240 off the streets, he still constantly drives by Twelfth Street 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:27.320 just to make sure that Bobby is not turning any 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:30.480 tricks and isn't like out there. And he's down to 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:32.920 hand over the guest list, but he can't give Bobby's 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:36.119 address away, and they're like, how did you send him checks? 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:39.520 And it's like direct deposit twenty eighteen. 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:42.760 But the bank also doesn't have an address and he 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:44.200 used the ninety second street. 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:44.720 Why for that? 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.080 So Benson is like, Okay, let's get down to the basics. 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:50.399 Why would anyone want to hurt Bobby? And Finn goes, well, 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:53.400 maybe for the money Bobby has, Like Bobby had half 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:55.480 a million in his bank account, and Benson makes a 0:19:55.480 --> 0:20:00.280 face like what And that money comes from U selling 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:02.520 the rights to the book to Hollywood. And while the 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:05.880 men in Benson discuss, Rollins rushes in with a laptop 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:08.320 and she might have something. There's a video of the 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:10.760 reading online and it's like a pan of the crowd 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:12.720 and they see the guy and beside him is a 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:16.560 bag of books and he bought Absalom Absalon. 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:19.520 I don't I don't, I don't know. I don't think 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:21.040 that's import but I don't know it. 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:24.159 Yeah, what is important is that he bought it with 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:27.720 a credit card. So we get this person's name, and 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:30.000 this guy's name is William Glover and he lives in 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:33.359 Forest Hills and they're at his home on November nineteenth. 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:34.080 He's wearing a. 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:36.560 Vest and is like a suburb daddy and he's playing 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:38.520 in front in the front yard with his two kids 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:40.560 and he sees the detectives and he says, do we 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:43.200 have to do this here? And he's not confused while 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:45.119 they're there, and then the wife comes out, so like, 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:48.159 wash up for dinner and the wife asks no question 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:50.199 and is like, dear friends, want to stay. I have 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:55.199 extra lamb. Also I noticed the Volvo station wagon and 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:56.480 the driveway. 0:20:57.080 --> 0:20:57.679 Hello. 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:01.119 So he kisses his wife's hard and says I love you, 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:04.640 and she's left in the yard and he willingly, without 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:07.560 any confusion, heads out with the detectives. So now we're 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:11.280 in an interrogation. The room looks extra giant, and it's 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:13.919 Rollin's Benson and the vest guy, and he says what 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:16.400 happens now? And Rollins is like, so you're not denying it, 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:19.840 and he just like screams I killed him. 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:22.720 And it's like why, bitch, tell us why? And he says, 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:25.359 you think I'm gay and she says I don't really care, 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:26.600 and he says, well, I'm not. 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:28.760 I have a wife and two kids. I saw a 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:31.199 leaflet of her on the subway and she told me 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:33.919 her name was Tammy. Three weeks ago picked her up 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:36.080 for sex off Twelfth Street, and then she had a 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:38.520 little trouble on zipping my pants or whatever. So he 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:41.440 gives details of like their interaction and so he bought 0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:43.719 sex from this person who said their name was Tammy. 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:45.600 And then all of a sudden, he's on the subway 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:48.399 and he sees a leaflet for the book, and it's like, 0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:48.920 what the fuck? 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:50.880 I was lied to? But how did he know from 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:53.439 the leaflet that she was a boy? 0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:58.000 Maybe because of the book, maybe there was like maybe 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:01.440 I don't know, maybe he went randomly to the reading. 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:03.760 I don't know, or maybe he knew he was a 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:05.639 boy the whole time. Maybe the same thing is what 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:06.399 spiraled him. 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:08.320 I mean, obviously he like doesn't want to be guy, 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.240 so I wrote, I hope you rotten jail for life, 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:15.560 you animal. I'm done with him, But it blacks out 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:17.240 on the screen and then we open back up on 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:22.560 a super close up shot of donuts. But also, wow, 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:25.000 that was a confession, Like what's going to happen next? 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:27.440 You know, we're only a few minutes in, so it's 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:30.040 like a red herring, but they did it, so I 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:31.120 don't even know what that's called. 0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:32.320 I'm a misdirect. 0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:35.760 So anyways, Criesy is standing over the donuts and Benson's 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:38.480 coming towards him, like just pick one, and he says, 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:41.479 what's the point and she's like, maybe you're hungry. What 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:44.800 do you call the fucking weirdo? And they turn the 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:48.119 convo to the case. The best guy is with Stone 0:22:48.200 --> 0:22:51.320 right now and he's probably gonna plead to man one 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:54.639 without the hate crime charge, and Creasey's confused, like Bobby 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:56.399 has so much money from the book, why would he 0:22:56.440 --> 0:22:59.160 go back to the streets. And she says that he's 0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:01.040 been doing it a long time and doesn't know how 0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:03.600 to stop. But Caresey isn't buying it, like what if 0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:07.120 someone was forcing him to do it? Hello, I didn't 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:09.919 trust Walter? Do you remember that? So what if Walter 0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:10.680 is bad news? 0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:11.000 Bears? 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:14.200 So Cresey's like if Walter is driving down Twelfth Street 0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:16.760 constantly making sure that Bobby isn't there, But this killer 0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:20.040 nutjob was able to find Bobby, bam so easy like that, 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:23.200 like this is shady. So now they head to Walter 0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:25.639 and Walter's like, you found the guy. That's great, and 0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:27.919 he seems really happy that the killer is caught and 0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:30.439 he's down to testify, and Caresee's like, slow down, we 0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:32.600 actually have to clarify one thing. You told me you 0:23:32.680 --> 0:23:35.119 drove up and down Twelfth av looking for Bobby. The 0:23:35.200 --> 0:23:37.560 thing is, this guy who killed him found him hooking 0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:39.440 a few times in the past few weeks, So. 0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:44.080 What's up. So Walter flips super fast. 0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:46.320 He's like, okay, I've never met Bobby, and they're like okay, 0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:49.080 So who was doing the reading? And he goes, well, 0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:51.600 Teddy aka Tammy or whatever the hell he was calling 0:23:51.680 --> 0:23:54.600 himself that week. So Careesy keeps at it, and this 0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:56.840 whole thing is a scam. Walter says, no, no, no, no, 0:23:56.880 --> 0:23:59.480 Bobby is real. But the secrecy thing was his idea 0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:01.840 and it worked great until we sold the rights to 0:24:01.880 --> 0:24:04.399 Hollywood and they wanted to see a face. And so 0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:07.080 Creasy says, you created one, and Walter says, yeah, I 0:24:07.080 --> 0:24:09.440 found Tammy on the streets and bought a forage license. 0:24:09.840 --> 0:24:11.480 All he had to do was read a few pages, 0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:13.359 and he paid him five hundred dollars. I didn't think 0:24:13.400 --> 0:24:17.480 anyone would get hurt. He asks if he is under arrest, 0:24:17.560 --> 0:24:20.080 and Creasy is like, I'll keep you posted. So we're 0:24:20.080 --> 0:24:22.520 at the vending machines increase. He's telling Benson if it 0:24:22.560 --> 0:24:25.040 wasn't for this guy's scam. This person wouldn't be dead, 0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:28.200 and Benson's like, okay, but you convinced Stone to take 0:24:28.240 --> 0:24:30.480 this on, Like, dude, come on, you want to charge 0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:33.840 someone for luring people into a free book reading. Benson 0:24:33.880 --> 0:24:36.040 doesn't like it either, but unless we change the law, 0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:38.720 there's nothing they can do. So Finn is sitting reading 0:24:38.760 --> 0:24:40.720 the book at his desk and says, this book is 0:24:40.760 --> 0:24:44.080 filled with underage sex rape like vibes, so maybe we 0:24:44.119 --> 0:24:47.000 can charge people with statutory rape. And Benson's like, I 0:24:47.040 --> 0:24:49.719 doubt he used real names. And Finn is like, but 0:24:49.760 --> 0:24:51.960 what if we can find these men? Like what if 0:24:51.960 --> 0:24:54.120 we can find these people in the book that we're 0:24:54.160 --> 0:24:57.320 reading about? So Creasy says, there is zero chance this 0:24:57.359 --> 0:24:59.919 person's going to show their face now, but Finn actually 0:25:00.200 --> 0:25:06.080 proactive wildly, and Bobby made a couple of online banking 0:25:06.119 --> 0:25:08.760 moves and he sent that to Taro and they tracked 0:25:08.760 --> 0:25:11.399 the IP address. So we pull up to a giant 0:25:11.440 --> 0:25:15.680 ass which's castle like you know those like tower cylinders 0:25:15.760 --> 0:25:18.960 with like the cone things on top. It's very haunted 0:25:19.000 --> 0:25:22.080 mansion vibes, and I'm like, how is this someone's home? 0:25:23.080 --> 0:25:26.000 I'm shocked and Finn goes, well, maybe they rent a room. 0:25:26.880 --> 0:25:30.000 So they walk towards the haunted home knock knock, NYPD 0:25:30.440 --> 0:25:32.320 and a woman on the street with a stroller says, 0:25:32.359 --> 0:25:35.840 what did they do? She says, these people are never seen, like, 0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:39.240 they don't come to anything. She says, the lights go 0:25:39.320 --> 0:25:41.800 up at night, off in the day, delivery guys leave 0:25:41.840 --> 0:25:43.040 the stuff, but I've never. 0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:44.439 Seen anyone take anything in. 0:25:44.960 --> 0:25:46.680 And she says, but it's New York, and I feel 0:25:46.720 --> 0:25:48.520 like people are allowed to be weird. 0:25:48.840 --> 0:25:51.719 Okay, cool, mom. I figure it's New York. People are 0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:53.840 allowed to be weird. I love that. 0:25:54.560 --> 0:25:56.560 So then Finn makes the call and says, we're gonna 0:25:56.560 --> 0:25:58.920 need a team and a warrant. So they jimmy the 0:25:58.960 --> 0:26:01.800 lock and a whole team enters this castle and it's dusty, 0:26:01.920 --> 0:26:06.600 vampire vibes, and they start yelling Bobby, Bobby o'roorke, and 0:26:06.640 --> 0:26:09.480 they think whoever lives here might be keeping Bobby prisoner. 0:26:09.680 --> 0:26:11.760 So they're looking around this whole dark ass house with 0:26:11.840 --> 0:26:16.119 flashlights and there's moving like they're moving around. There's a 0:26:16.160 --> 0:26:19.159 lot of sliding doors, and the set designer deserves an Emmy. 0:26:19.240 --> 0:26:22.840 I'll say that this is intense, intense set design, and 0:26:22.920 --> 0:26:25.600 Careesy is coughing and covering his face with the smell, 0:26:26.080 --> 0:26:29.840 and Careasey finds dried blood in a corner. So then 0:26:29.880 --> 0:26:33.119 they hear a creek and it's Judd hirsh and he 0:26:33.240 --> 0:26:36.480 has a Yiddish accent to the max. He's in a 0:26:36.520 --> 0:26:38.920 Hugh Hefner's style robe, and he's like, what the hell 0:26:39.000 --> 0:26:42.080 this is my house? I don't like this, and he 0:26:42.160 --> 0:26:45.200 then explains that Bobby O'Rourke is a bartender who died 0:26:45.240 --> 0:26:47.560 fifty years ago. He's like, I went to the damn 0:26:47.640 --> 0:26:50.960 funeral and another man exits a room and it's Wallace 0:26:51.040 --> 0:26:56.000 Sean AKA Clueless and so many other stuff. But what's 0:26:56.040 --> 0:26:58.880 the Princess Bride? Princess Bride is huge, Yeah, but he's 0:26:58.920 --> 0:27:02.800 in so much. Yeah, he's working jenjud These are both 0:27:02.880 --> 0:27:06.639 kind of legends. Yeah, these are both legendary guys in 0:27:06.680 --> 0:27:07.280 our business. 0:27:07.840 --> 0:27:09.840 So then Wala Shawn is like, what the hell did 0:27:09.880 --> 0:27:11.159 you do this time? He did it? 0:27:11.280 --> 0:27:14.720 Arrest his sorry ass. And Bobby died in seventy five, 0:27:14.840 --> 0:27:17.359 not seventy two, And then they start fighting and they 0:27:17.400 --> 0:27:20.399 are brothers and they refuse to be in the same car. 0:27:20.520 --> 0:27:20.960 With him. 0:27:21.119 --> 0:27:22.720 Like, so they're like, you can take us, but I'm 0:27:22.720 --> 0:27:25.520 not sharing a fucking car with this guy. He voted 0:27:25.560 --> 0:27:28.280 for Gerald Ford. I'm not going to ride with him. 0:27:28.480 --> 0:27:31.320 You ride with him, I'm not going And so they're like, 0:27:31.720 --> 0:27:36.040 it's like a vaudeville act. These guys are looney tunes. 0:27:36.840 --> 0:27:39.840 So jud is with Rollins and Benson. He doesn't know 0:27:39.880 --> 0:27:42.160 about this writer and they're like, we trace the IP 0:27:42.400 --> 0:27:44.919 to you, and he doesn't even know what IP is. 0:27:45.480 --> 0:27:45.800 Wala. 0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:49.080 Shawn is in with Finn, like wait, the computers can 0:27:49.160 --> 0:27:52.439 tell you where they are, very Jumanji. 0:27:52.560 --> 0:27:55.600 And Finn is like, honey, I hear you. 0:27:57.160 --> 0:27:59.280 He then uses a bad word but adds a Jewish 0:27:59.320 --> 0:28:01.159 flair to it, so I don't I'm not going to 0:28:01.240 --> 0:28:04.040 say it, but you know, not a fun word, but 0:28:04.080 --> 0:28:06.320 it does sound fun in Yiddish. 0:28:06.560 --> 0:28:08.359 So then he's like, don't you know. 0:28:08.480 --> 0:28:10.600 Finn's like, hey, don't say that, and he goes, what 0:28:10.680 --> 0:28:12.560 it's a word? Who cares? And Finn says, well, it 0:28:12.640 --> 0:28:15.760 hurts people. And then these men are so annoying. This 0:28:15.840 --> 0:28:18.159 is I think the reason I hate this episode. So 0:28:18.400 --> 0:28:20.679 he calls his brother a son of a bitch. Okay, 0:28:20.720 --> 0:28:23.680 I'm back on board. And then he calls him a schmuck. 0:28:24.000 --> 0:28:24.359 Love that. 0:28:25.000 --> 0:28:27.240 Then the other brother is like, he's a bum, he 0:28:27.280 --> 0:28:29.720 would hurt him. What do you think he did to Charise? 0:28:29.800 --> 0:28:32.439 And they're like, who is Charisse? And then there's a 0:28:32.440 --> 0:28:35.600 bad word for black people with some Jewish flair, some 0:28:35.720 --> 0:28:40.240 Yiddish and everyone's like, you can't say that, and he's like, ah, 0:28:40.280 --> 0:28:43.720 you guys are so annoying. So the parents owned the 0:28:43.760 --> 0:28:46.720 house and their dad died in sixty nine and the 0:28:46.760 --> 0:28:49.760 mom in seventy three, and they were good parents and 0:28:49.760 --> 0:28:52.280 then so then jud hasn't actually even left the house 0:28:52.320 --> 0:28:55.360 since then, and Finn's like, well what about you? And 0:28:55.400 --> 0:28:57.880 the guy Wala Sean is like what, I'm supposed to 0:28:57.920 --> 0:28:59.240 leave it all to himself? 0:29:00.120 --> 0:29:00.480 What is it? 0:29:00.560 --> 0:29:05.400 The mutually exclusive what's that thing from Yellow Jackets? Mutually 0:29:05.440 --> 0:29:09.479 assured destruction? Oh yeah, yeah, that's this where it's like 0:29:09.520 --> 0:29:11.760 their lives are a mess, but they would rather both 0:29:11.800 --> 0:29:13.239 be a mess than one of them get to be 0:29:13.240 --> 0:29:16.680 in this gorgeous house, right, and it's also a hoarding house. 0:29:17.360 --> 0:29:19.120 I don't know if I was clear about that. I mean, 0:29:19.160 --> 0:29:21.600 I said vampires and dust, but it's. 0:29:21.520 --> 0:29:26.000 No horn stacks of shit like major hoarding vibes. 0:29:26.080 --> 0:29:27.200 Yeah, major. 0:29:27.800 --> 0:29:30.960 So we're back to jud and Scharis came in twice 0:29:31.000 --> 0:29:33.760 a week and made terrible soup, but Wallace thought she 0:29:33.880 --> 0:29:36.360 was stealing because he would put quarters all over the 0:29:36.360 --> 0:29:38.440 house and then when there was one missing, he was like, 0:29:38.720 --> 0:29:42.200 she's stealing. So they fired her in nineteen seventy five, 0:29:42.520 --> 0:29:44.640 and Wallace is like, if anything happened to this. 0:29:44.640 --> 0:29:45.760 Boy, it was Joe. 0:29:46.320 --> 0:29:48.760 So I'm sure this this while back and forth is 0:29:49.280 --> 0:29:53.240 it's lasting forever. And so we go to Kari a while, 0:29:54.680 --> 0:29:57.880 and so we go back to Krezy, who's flashlight deep 0:29:58.080 --> 0:30:01.960 in searching the house and there's little little peeks of 0:30:02.000 --> 0:30:05.320 sunlight and really pretty stained glass but mostly a mess. 0:30:05.840 --> 0:30:08.360 And then fuck, man down, Man down. 0:30:08.440 --> 0:30:11.400 A giant bookshelf with tons of books falls on Creasy 0:30:11.760 --> 0:30:13.560 and he's like, get this thing off of me, and 0:30:13.600 --> 0:30:16.920 what if he was alone? Like that is so fucking scary, 0:30:17.040 --> 0:30:19.440 And it was a booby trap, so something's back there. 0:30:19.480 --> 0:30:21.560 So he stepped on something, the shelf fell on him, 0:30:21.840 --> 0:30:24.800 and holy shit, what's back there being protected by this 0:30:25.040 --> 0:30:28.560 booby trap is a laptop with a copy of Bobby's. 0:30:28.160 --> 0:30:30.880 Book done done, done, done. 0:30:31.200 --> 0:30:33.280 And so then the next book is actually a document 0:30:33.320 --> 0:30:34.960 on the computer, so we know for a fact that 0:30:35.040 --> 0:30:37.320 Bobby was there and was writing. We have like a 0:30:37.360 --> 0:30:39.480 sequel being written as it's happening. 0:30:39.880 --> 0:30:41.560 So but also I want to say that the guy 0:30:41.560 --> 0:30:46.120 who helps take the bookshelf off of Caraesy is Montero, 0:30:46.240 --> 0:30:49.640 who is Eddie Hargatea, who is Marishka's brother, who has 0:30:49.680 --> 0:30:53.040 been recurring on a couple of episodes. Oh wow, he's 0:30:53.080 --> 0:30:55.640 always just this officer named Montero that they all know 0:30:55.760 --> 0:30:58.000 and like he's always in like one scene or whatever. 0:30:58.680 --> 0:31:01.040 So Benson's at the pre sinked on the cell phone 0:31:01.040 --> 0:31:03.800 getting scooped, and Creasy's calling from outside the house saying 0:31:03.800 --> 0:31:07.320 that the document was updated two days ago. So they're like, 0:31:07.440 --> 0:31:11.040 keep searching, Bobby might be hiding in there. So there's 0:31:11.080 --> 0:31:12.720 five floors in this house. 0:31:12.800 --> 0:31:13.479 It's huge. 0:31:14.520 --> 0:31:17.000 Now we're back to Wala Shan, who lets Finn know 0:31:17.080 --> 0:31:19.880 that he wants a corn beef sandwich from Carnegie Delli. 0:31:20.800 --> 0:31:23.160 And then Finn is like that place closed two years ago, 0:31:23.240 --> 0:31:24.160 which is a news to me. 0:31:24.320 --> 0:31:28.840 And now I'm sad I loved that place because like. 0:31:28.760 --> 0:31:30.480 You would order one thing and they would give you 0:31:30.760 --> 0:31:32.959 a pickles, a piece of haala, a dip of this, 0:31:33.160 --> 0:31:35.800 like they it's just they would give you so many 0:31:36.080 --> 0:31:37.560 foods for one omelet. 0:31:38.000 --> 0:31:39.560 Yeah, and wala. 0:31:39.640 --> 0:31:42.040 Shawn is so funny and says, nobody told me about 0:31:42.040 --> 0:31:45.760 the Shiva. And our lady walks in and says, you're 0:31:45.760 --> 0:31:48.200 coming with me and he says, oh nice, We're going 0:31:48.240 --> 0:31:51.280 home and they're like, not quite, dude, let's go. So 0:31:51.400 --> 0:31:54.240 they're putting the brothers together and it's Judd and Wallace 0:31:54.600 --> 0:31:57.240 with Benson and Rollins and they're like, we know Bobby 0:31:57.280 --> 0:31:59.640 was in your house two days ago. Nobody has seen 0:31:59.680 --> 0:32:03.760 him so and Judd says I haven't and Wallace is like, liar, 0:32:04.000 --> 0:32:06.520 And then they start arguing and Judd says, well, tell them, 0:32:06.720 --> 0:32:09.280 tell them about Izzy Berkowitz and Benson's like, who, what 0:32:09.800 --> 0:32:13.280 is happening? So I guess this isy guys cheated in 0:32:13.320 --> 0:32:15.320 a game in Jim Rubby in nineteen fifty eight, so 0:32:15.360 --> 0:32:18.120 it's like, why are we still talking about it? And 0:32:18.160 --> 0:32:21.080 he's like it shows your character and you have none, 0:32:21.080 --> 0:32:23.360 And Wallace gets up and says, I'm not listening to 0:32:23.440 --> 0:32:26.840 this anymore, and Benson's like, yes, you are, bitch. You're 0:32:26.840 --> 0:32:28.719 gonna sit here until you and your brothers tell us 0:32:28.720 --> 0:32:30.000 what happened to Bobby or Rourke. 0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:31.000 You understand that. 0:32:31.400 --> 0:32:34.000 And they both sit down silent, and they finally realize 0:32:34.000 --> 0:32:37.600 that they're in trouble. Maybe Kreese is still searching. Why 0:32:37.640 --> 0:32:40.440 aren't they wearing hazmats? This is like so dangerous, ye, 0:32:41.120 --> 0:32:44.480 So then Cares finds, uh oh, a deep freezer with 0:32:44.520 --> 0:32:47.040 a lock. Not a good sign, never a good sign, 0:32:47.480 --> 0:32:50.240 and it was covered in blankets and Finn Knock knock 0:32:50.400 --> 0:32:52.400 comes in and they get lab results back and the 0:32:52.480 --> 0:32:56.000 DNA on the manuscript matches blood on floors and the laptop. 0:32:56.480 --> 0:32:58.320 So we're going to search your house f top to 0:32:58.400 --> 0:33:01.200 bottom and we're gonna find him. And then Benson goes 0:33:01.200 --> 0:33:03.960 and that's it. You're both under arrest and put them 0:33:03.960 --> 0:33:07.520 in the cage. So that gets them rattling, and finally 0:33:07.600 --> 0:33:10.160 Wallace says, well, wait, it was me, and Benson goes, 0:33:10.200 --> 0:33:13.440 you killed Bobby and Wallace says, no, there is no Bobby. Okay, 0:33:13.480 --> 0:33:15.440 give them a lawyer if they want one. I'm done, 0:33:15.520 --> 0:33:18.160 and Wallace stops them again and says, look, I wrote it. 0:33:18.480 --> 0:33:21.720 His brother's like whoa you wrote a book, and Wallace 0:33:21.760 --> 0:33:24.160 angrily tells his brother, well, I had to do something. 0:33:24.520 --> 0:33:26.360 Who do you think pays for the groceries and the 0:33:26.360 --> 0:33:29.320 real estate taxes? And Judd goes, well, what about mama's money? 0:33:29.320 --> 0:33:32.120 And Wallace is like, that's gonna run out in six months. 0:33:32.200 --> 0:33:33.880 But you never think about the future. 0:33:33.960 --> 0:33:34.600 You never do. 0:33:34.760 --> 0:33:37.240 I always have to think about the future. And she says, 0:33:37.240 --> 0:33:39.240 wait a minute. If you haven't left the house since 0:33:39.320 --> 0:33:41.240 nineteen seventy three, how is it that you got a 0:33:41.240 --> 0:33:46.680 computer to write on good detective work. Jud again confuses like, whoa, 0:33:46.760 --> 0:33:50.560 you have a computer? I love this and Wallace's pissed. No, 0:33:50.680 --> 0:33:55.400 I used hyroglyphics and says focus. So Wallace explains that 0:33:55.440 --> 0:33:57.800 he gave Carlos, the boy that delivers from the Delhi, 0:33:57.800 --> 0:34:00.200 one hundred dollars to buy it and set it up 0:34:00.200 --> 0:34:00.560 for him. 0:34:01.240 --> 0:34:02.520 So then tell us about the blood. 0:34:02.960 --> 0:34:05.080 He says, he cut himself when trying to carry his 0:34:05.120 --> 0:34:07.480 mother's sewing machine into the basement and stepped on a 0:34:07.480 --> 0:34:10.200 piece of broken glass. Why do you think Bobby never 0:34:10.239 --> 0:34:12.560 showed his face? The truth is, we didn't kill Bobby 0:34:12.640 --> 0:34:16.120 or Rourke. You people did. Back to Careese, Jimmy the 0:34:16.120 --> 0:34:19.640 freezer lock, it breaks open and inside is frozen food 0:34:20.360 --> 0:34:21.000 and a body. 0:34:21.680 --> 0:34:23.160 Yikestunt done. 0:34:23.560 --> 0:34:26.520 So in the freezer there's a dead woman with gray 0:34:26.520 --> 0:34:28.719 long hair and it's an older lady and she is 0:34:28.760 --> 0:34:31.400 dead in that freezer. And now we're back from a 0:34:31.400 --> 0:34:35.520 commercial break. That's obviously done. That's that's an hack break. 0:34:36.800 --> 0:34:39.960 Have you seen Bernie that movie Jack Glass? 0:34:40.200 --> 0:34:42.719 Pieces of It? Yes, I like to watch the whole thing, 0:34:42.800 --> 0:34:44.360 but yeah. 0:34:43.760 --> 0:34:44.880 I love that movie. 0:34:45.160 --> 0:34:48.200 Yeah, and you know, like the townspeople are real townspeople. 0:34:48.440 --> 0:34:51.520 Yes, we've talked about this on this podcast. Can't stop 0:34:51.560 --> 0:34:53.879 because you love this movie? Yeah, how you do love it? 0:34:54.480 --> 0:34:56.480 So we're back from the commercial break and Benson is 0:34:56.480 --> 0:34:59.400 wearing thick, black rimmed glasses and reading the book with 0:34:59.480 --> 0:35:01.960 a pet or hand to make some notes in the margins, 0:35:02.440 --> 0:35:04.520 and Rollins walks in with a file in hand from 0:35:04.520 --> 0:35:07.920 the Emmy. The dead body is Rose Edelman, tumors in 0:35:08.000 --> 0:35:11.200 both lungs and she didn't die from cancer, but from exphyxiation. 0:35:11.880 --> 0:35:14.080 There's no bruise marks though around her next so they 0:35:14.120 --> 0:35:17.040 must have used a pillow to suffocate her. And this 0:35:17.080 --> 0:35:19.680 is the mother obviously, so Benson is like you read it, 0:35:19.719 --> 0:35:20.640 and Rollins is like yeah. 0:35:20.719 --> 0:35:22.160 So she starts reading out loud, and. 0:35:23.680 --> 0:35:25.719 The text from the book reads like like do I 0:35:25.760 --> 0:35:27.200 hate this guy or love him? 0:35:27.640 --> 0:35:29.040 And does he love or hate me? 0:35:29.280 --> 0:35:31.080 But he wants me enough to let go of his 0:35:31.160 --> 0:35:34.400 hard earned money and it's in such details, and Benson 0:35:34.480 --> 0:35:36.960 is like, I've spoken to so many survivors that speak 0:35:37.000 --> 0:35:39.720 like this, and Rollin's being dense as fuck is like, sure, 0:35:39.719 --> 0:35:41.960 but this is coming from a seventy three year old hoarder. 0:35:42.000 --> 0:35:45.400 And Benson responds who has completely rejected society? 0:35:46.280 --> 0:35:48.880 So Rollins ding ding ding was he abused? 0:35:48.920 --> 0:35:51.560 And Benson's like yeah, and if he was, he deserves 0:35:51.600 --> 0:35:54.480 some closure. So they go to Rikers on November twenty 0:35:54.520 --> 0:35:58.879 sixth Now I do need to mention. So November nineteenth, 0:35:58.960 --> 0:36:02.520 they're starting this in a it's the twenty six Thanksgiving happened. 0:36:04.800 --> 0:36:06.840 We didn't even get to see the squad get together. 0:36:06.880 --> 0:36:09.400 It lives apartment split, a turkey leg fuck. 0:36:10.239 --> 0:36:12.000 Maybe it's like a late and Tuesday, but I think 0:36:12.719 --> 0:36:15.520 that that goes away because Court's on the thirtieth or 0:36:15.560 --> 0:36:17.600 thirty first, so it's like truly. 0:36:17.280 --> 0:36:19.680 Just past Thanksgiving. 0:36:19.800 --> 0:36:24.040 Yeah, So they work on it so anyways, Wallace is 0:36:24.080 --> 0:36:26.800 in an orange jumpsuit and he's telling a white blazer 0:36:26.880 --> 0:36:29.400 Benson childhood stories about being on the beach with his 0:36:29.480 --> 0:36:32.440 mom and his mom loved reading books, and he's talking 0:36:32.520 --> 0:36:35.920 about the waves and the undertow and so sadly these 0:36:35.920 --> 0:36:38.600 boys were like pushed so far from the shore and 0:36:38.640 --> 0:36:42.719 then like whatever, they were trying to be saved and 0:36:42.760 --> 0:36:45.800 they were like getting carried under and then the lifeguard 0:36:45.880 --> 0:36:48.200 saved him, and then he remembers being faced down on 0:36:48.239 --> 0:36:51.560 the shore, regurgitating saltwater with every cough, and Benson's like, well, 0:36:51.600 --> 0:36:54.000 you certainly owe your life to that lifeguard. He goes, Nope, 0:36:54.239 --> 0:36:57.319 I owe mama, Like she made the lifeguard go get them, 0:36:57.360 --> 0:37:00.440 and she kept us afloat because she got there before hand. 0:37:00.280 --> 0:37:01.680 Like she beat him out to us. 0:37:02.080 --> 0:37:04.799 So it's really like the mom that helped save them 0:37:04.800 --> 0:37:07.839 from this undertow situation. And I'm not really sure why 0:37:07.840 --> 0:37:10.960 they're telling the story, but Benson says she sounds like 0:37:10.960 --> 0:37:13.480 an amazing woman, and Wallace makes a face that reminds 0:37:13.480 --> 0:37:14.200 me of Jeff Ross. 0:37:14.239 --> 0:37:15.520 He truly looks like Jeff Ross. 0:37:15.520 --> 0:37:19.160 For a second, I think that you're hearing this whole 0:37:19.239 --> 0:37:21.360 story so that it sets up that these guys didn't 0:37:21.360 --> 0:37:22.560 like viciously kill their mom. 0:37:22.600 --> 0:37:25.399 They were like obsessed with her. You know, Yeah, that's 0:37:25.760 --> 0:37:26.480 a great idea. 0:37:26.600 --> 0:37:30.840 And so he Win says but smiles and is hiding something, 0:37:30.840 --> 0:37:33.120 but then agrees and says, the eggs always think they're 0:37:33.160 --> 0:37:35.480 smarter than the chicken. And now I'm not about to 0:37:35.520 --> 0:37:38.720 confess something that I didn't do, and Benson goes, okay, 0:37:38.760 --> 0:37:41.400 then what about something your brother did? And he's like, 0:37:41.520 --> 0:37:45.000 he ain't gonna say shit, sorry, dude. So Rollin's is 0:37:45.040 --> 0:37:47.080 pregnant in the scene, so of course no one will 0:37:47.160 --> 0:37:50.720 leave her alone ever, and they're just like, so, where's 0:37:50.760 --> 0:37:53.719 your husband? So Jud's asking about the husband, and it's like, 0:37:53.880 --> 0:37:57.960 leave her alone. Let her just be pregnant. She's a slut. Okay, no, 0:37:58.080 --> 0:38:00.680 but there is someone special, and he says, well until 0:38:00.719 --> 0:38:02.520 he marries you, I don't want to hear about him. 0:38:02.560 --> 0:38:05.439 So they giggle and they're honestly like being cute. So 0:38:05.760 --> 0:38:08.000 I was pissed at first because I think everyone should 0:38:08.000 --> 0:38:11.000 just leave her alone. For some reason, boundaries go out 0:38:11.080 --> 0:38:13.200 the door when someone's pregnant. I'm sure people were saying 0:38:13.200 --> 0:38:17.080 insane things to you Yeah. People are wild. They say 0:38:17.120 --> 0:38:19.840 whatever they want, they touch you. Yeah, are you gonna 0:38:19.880 --> 0:38:24.240 give vaginal birth? And yeah, yeahing about like it's people 0:38:24.280 --> 0:38:26.800 are crazy. But he's just being sweet, like a sweet 0:38:26.880 --> 0:38:29.080 jew man. I feel like being like, oh, well, if 0:38:29.080 --> 0:38:31.960 he doesn't marry you, I hate him. So she asks 0:38:32.160 --> 0:38:34.080 if he wants a wife, and he says no, that 0:38:34.120 --> 0:38:38.040 he's too busy. So this is a little trickster rollins here, 0:38:38.120 --> 0:38:41.759 she says, she starts flirting. She's like, but you're too handsome. 0:38:42.239 --> 0:38:44.560 You would have been quite a catch. And he says, 0:38:44.920 --> 0:38:47.640 so are you shocking up like those flower people? And 0:38:47.680 --> 0:38:50.400 she laughs and she says they've been gone for a 0:38:50.440 --> 0:38:53.279 long time and their flower children. He then asks if 0:38:53.280 --> 0:38:56.360 his brother is confessed yet he's weak that kid. She 0:38:56.480 --> 0:38:58.880 asks if he needed to protect him, and he responds, 0:38:59.000 --> 0:39:01.920 damn straight. But he then says it sometimes it is 0:39:02.000 --> 0:39:04.279 really hard to be the big brother because you know, 0:39:04.320 --> 0:39:07.160 you feel all this responsibility to protect your little brother. 0:39:07.520 --> 0:39:09.560 And it cuts back to Benson and Wallace and she 0:39:09.600 --> 0:39:11.400 says she wants to talk about the book and that 0:39:11.480 --> 0:39:14.000 it was powerful, and he gets excited. He's like, you 0:39:14.040 --> 0:39:16.400 read it, and she says it was so real that 0:39:16.480 --> 0:39:18.759 actually she doesn't get how he could have written it 0:39:18.760 --> 0:39:21.719 without and before she can finish, she says, I don't 0:39:21.719 --> 0:39:23.440 want to talk about that, and gets up from his 0:39:23.560 --> 0:39:26.080 chair to stare at a wall. She says, I know 0:39:26.120 --> 0:39:28.759 how hard it must have been, and he says, you know, 0:39:29.000 --> 0:39:33.440 bump kiss. She says, no, anyone that could have written 0:39:33.440 --> 0:39:35.680 that book certainly must have lived through something. 0:39:36.040 --> 0:39:37.280 You wrote that so you can. 0:39:37.160 --> 0:39:39.640 Tell the world what happened and how devastating it was. 0:39:39.680 --> 0:39:41.800 And he says no, I wrote that book for money, 0:39:42.040 --> 0:39:44.239 and she says you were ashamed and that's why you 0:39:44.239 --> 0:39:46.840 didn't use your name. She says, shame isn't done you, 0:39:47.000 --> 0:39:49.160 and it wasn't your fault. Who did this to you, 0:39:49.400 --> 0:39:51.720 who hurt you? And then it cuts back to Judd 0:39:51.719 --> 0:39:54.120 and Rollins and now you know they do these back 0:39:54.160 --> 0:39:54.560 and forth. 0:39:55.120 --> 0:39:56.879 So after school we. 0:39:56.960 --> 0:39:59.319 Used to go to this play center and there was 0:39:59.320 --> 0:40:01.919 a counselor that and he was twenty and Rollins asks 0:40:01.960 --> 0:40:04.160 if he did anything to his brother and he says, 0:40:04.239 --> 0:40:06.040 fuck no. What kind of brother would I be if 0:40:06.080 --> 0:40:08.360 I allowed that? And she says, but he hurt you 0:40:09.040 --> 0:40:11.439 and he yells, I was only twelve years old. Damn 0:40:11.440 --> 0:40:14.120 it well kind of a person. He says that there 0:40:14.160 --> 0:40:16.520 was a guy called Vincent and he was always around 0:40:16.600 --> 0:40:19.120 and first time was in the locker room when nobody 0:40:19.120 --> 0:40:20.759 else was there, and he said, this is what big 0:40:20.760 --> 0:40:23.240 boys do. And it starts to cut back and forth 0:40:23.320 --> 0:40:26.040 fast between the two brothers talking about what happened, and 0:40:26.120 --> 0:40:28.680 jud says, just don't tell my brother, and then Wallace 0:40:28.719 --> 0:40:31.279 had never told anybody, and especially not his brother, who 0:40:31.320 --> 0:40:34.160 would have laughed at him. Then Jud says, I was 0:40:34.160 --> 0:40:36.560 the older brother, How could I have told him? And 0:40:36.840 --> 0:40:39.239 Rond's like, what about your father? And jud says, oh, no, 0:40:39.520 --> 0:40:41.959 like our father would get mad if I'd an't Ace 0:40:42.000 --> 0:40:43.920 a test, like how could I tell him about this? 0:40:44.400 --> 0:40:46.960 And Benson asks like, what about your mother? And Wallace says, 0:40:47.000 --> 0:40:49.280 of course not. She would have thought I was dirty, 0:40:49.320 --> 0:40:51.560 and I would have and wouldn't have loved me anymore. 0:40:52.600 --> 0:40:55.920 Did they get molested by separate guys? No, Oh, it 0:40:55.960 --> 0:40:58.799 was the same guy. I thought he gave a different name. No, 0:40:59.120 --> 0:41:00.759 I think it's the same guy. I mean, we'll see, 0:41:00.840 --> 0:41:02.000 but I think it's the same one. 0:41:02.239 --> 0:41:03.000 Yeah. 0:41:03.080 --> 0:41:05.160 So Benson and Stone do a walk and talk in 0:41:05.200 --> 0:41:09.000 front of stained glass that says justice behind them, and 0:41:09.080 --> 0:41:12.239 she says, Peter, they were both abused, and he says okay, 0:41:12.280 --> 0:41:14.640 and conveniently they didn't say anything about it till they 0:41:14.640 --> 0:41:17.759 were charged. She says, I believe them, and he's like, well, 0:41:17.800 --> 0:41:20.120 I'll do my best to get it excluded from the trial. 0:41:20.200 --> 0:41:25.080 He says, proudly fucking loser to be that hot and 0:41:25.239 --> 0:41:28.960 so wildly hated, Like it's a special level of bad 0:41:29.000 --> 0:41:32.479 personality and choices with this character, and like we even 0:41:32.560 --> 0:41:35.080 like Tomorrow, like we still think Amorrow's hot and he's 0:41:35.120 --> 0:41:38.319 shot unarmed children, and then with Stone, it's just like 0:41:38.719 --> 0:41:42.239 get away from us. Benson is like, you won't have 0:41:42.320 --> 0:41:44.759 to fucking do that. They both won't ever admit it, 0:41:44.880 --> 0:41:46.799 and so like you don't have to like work to 0:41:46.840 --> 0:41:47.400 exclude it. 0:41:47.400 --> 0:41:50.440 They're pretty ashamed of what happened. They won't even admit 0:41:50.480 --> 0:41:51.120 it to each other. 0:41:51.160 --> 0:41:54.319 And he's like, great, then that's settled, perfect, And she's 0:41:54.360 --> 0:41:57.279 begging for him to cut them a deal, and it's 0:41:57.320 --> 0:41:59.720 like the mom was sick and in pain, just please, 0:41:59.800 --> 0:42:01.799 and he's like, listen, I already made a deal with 0:42:01.840 --> 0:42:05.759 the attorney. Okay, one year jail, ten years probation, and 0:42:05.880 --> 0:42:08.760 that takes Olivia by surprise. She's like, well that's generous, 0:42:08.800 --> 0:42:11.600 and he goes, yeah, they turned it down. She says 0:42:11.640 --> 0:42:14.439 they're sympathetic defendants and he's like yeah until the jury. 0:42:14.480 --> 0:42:16.680 Here is they kept their mom on ice in the basement. 0:42:18.200 --> 0:42:20.200 So now we're in court and it's the twenty ninth 0:42:20.280 --> 0:42:23.120 and a Thursday. So Thanksgiving was definitely last week. I 0:42:23.160 --> 0:42:26.160 told you during the case, no one even said like, 0:42:26.160 --> 0:42:27.880 oh fuck, are you going someone? 0:42:28.000 --> 0:42:31.360 Yeah, yeah, No one even brings in leftovers. 0:42:31.480 --> 0:42:35.920 Yeah, nobody complained about working. So we got defense attorney 0:42:35.920 --> 0:42:38.359 Evan Brawn. He's in eight episodes of SCVU and he's 0:42:38.360 --> 0:42:42.239 played by Michael Kostra and classic evil guy face. You know, 0:42:42.360 --> 0:42:44.720 it must be sad, so like this is an actor. 0:42:44.760 --> 0:42:46.359 My mom would be like, I don't like him. 0:42:46.440 --> 0:42:47.440 He's bad. You know. 0:42:48.400 --> 0:42:51.680 She doesn't like Christopher Walking, like anyone that ever plays 0:42:51.719 --> 0:42:54.360 anyone bad to her, it's like, get them away. 0:42:55.640 --> 0:42:58.359 Oh not Christopher Walking. I don't know. I was thinking 0:42:58.400 --> 0:43:01.319 Willem Dafoe. Do they look similar? No they don't, but 0:43:01.960 --> 0:43:04.680 they're both creepy looking kind of you don't think they 0:43:04.680 --> 0:43:08.600 look similar at all. Christopher Walking and Willem Defoe. I don't. Okay, 0:43:08.600 --> 0:43:10.360 we'll do a poll. We'll do a poll. 0:43:10.800 --> 0:43:12.600 Casey, will you do a note so we post this, 0:43:12.760 --> 0:43:15.319 ha ha, We're going to do a poll. So he's 0:43:15.360 --> 0:43:18.560 addressing the jury in a beautiful shot of television, I 0:43:18.560 --> 0:43:21.120 would say. He says, this is a case about love, 0:43:21.280 --> 0:43:23.959 about two sons who just love their mom too much. 0:43:24.280 --> 0:43:25.919 And since I love the way that this was shot, 0:43:25.960 --> 0:43:27.839 I looked up the director and he's done thirty four 0:43:27.840 --> 0:43:31.200 episodes of SVO and every other Dick Wolf show, so 0:43:31.440 --> 0:43:33.960 he's really been working and incredible, and I didn't even 0:43:33.960 --> 0:43:34.719 write his name down. 0:43:34.960 --> 0:43:36.160 Helloa. 0:43:37.280 --> 0:43:39.200 He says it always struck him at as odd that 0:43:39.280 --> 0:43:41.319 the law says that a mother must take care of 0:43:41.360 --> 0:43:43.560 their kids, so you would think there would be a 0:43:43.600 --> 0:43:45.799 law that says kids should take care of her when 0:43:45.840 --> 0:43:48.279 she is old and sick. And he says, Rose got 0:43:48.400 --> 0:43:51.080 very sick and we've only had six months to live, 0:43:51.120 --> 0:43:53.320 and then she died. And mister Stone will say that 0:43:53.480 --> 0:43:56.480 they that these two loving sons murdered her, but they're 0:43:56.480 --> 0:43:58.680 two sons who cooked for her, bathed her and made 0:43:58.719 --> 0:44:01.200 sure she took her meds, two boys that love their 0:44:01.200 --> 0:44:03.600 mom so much. Though when she passed away, they couldn't 0:44:03.640 --> 0:44:07.359 bear to see her buried in Queen's and dirt. And 0:44:07.400 --> 0:44:10.560 then then he goes an entree for hungry worms, like 0:44:10.600 --> 0:44:14.080 he's laying it on thick. This is a real performance, 0:44:14.120 --> 0:44:16.480 and jud puts his head in his hands, and then 0:44:16.520 --> 0:44:19.600 our dude says, or worse yet, shoved into a flaming 0:44:19.640 --> 0:44:22.840 hot oven. And I feel like there's Holocaust underdowns here. 0:44:23.800 --> 0:44:25.480 Because I want to be cremated, and I don't think 0:44:25.520 --> 0:44:27.160 that's like a mean thing to do to a body. 0:44:28.480 --> 0:44:31.200 I definitely think this is Holocaust vibes and it's a 0:44:31.239 --> 0:44:32.720 crazy thing to do to a body. 0:44:33.280 --> 0:44:33.640 I want. 0:44:33.680 --> 0:44:35.120 That's what I want to happen to me. I don't 0:44:35.120 --> 0:44:38.080 want to like rot for years in the ground. Sorry, 0:44:38.080 --> 0:44:40.560 that's not for me. No, that's totally fine. 0:44:40.640 --> 0:44:44.640 But you can't say that burning a body is like chill. 0:44:44.760 --> 0:44:46.680 It's all. It's just like what we've accepted. But did 0:44:46.680 --> 0:44:49.440 you watch Midsommer? Really? You did it? I had Jared 0:44:49.480 --> 0:44:51.240 explain it to me ruined style. 0:44:51.480 --> 0:44:53.920 So yeah, like a Midsommer they make the old guys 0:44:53.960 --> 0:44:56.520 like jump off a cliff to their deaths and like 0:44:56.640 --> 0:44:58.719 we think that's fucked right, Like I didn't want to. 0:44:58.840 --> 0:44:59.719 I didn't like watching that. 0:44:59.800 --> 0:45:02.640 So so I feel if a different society that didn't 0:45:02.680 --> 0:45:04.560 burn their dead loved ones. 0:45:04.360 --> 0:45:07.799 Would also be like, this is fucked. Why what do 0:45:07.840 --> 0:45:09.560 you think is the thing to do with dead people? 0:45:10.440 --> 0:45:13.000 I don't know, Throw me at sea. I want to 0:45:13.000 --> 0:45:14.120 go to the bottom of the ocean. 0:45:14.520 --> 0:45:18.200 Jesus. You know, it's hard to make a body sink. 0:45:18.200 --> 0:45:20.080 They're gonna have to really weigh you down. It's a 0:45:20.120 --> 0:45:22.279 lot of work. Well no, because when oh yeah, cause 0:45:22.280 --> 0:45:23.080 I'm not breathing. 0:45:23.480 --> 0:45:26.360 Yeah, sosh, these bodies woat back up. 0:45:26.400 --> 0:45:28.960 That's why Dexter always chopped them up into like bags 0:45:28.960 --> 0:45:30.600 and like weighed them down and then they all got 0:45:30.640 --> 0:45:31.279 found in the end. 0:45:31.320 --> 0:45:34.400 Anyway, but they do burials at sea, no. 0:45:35.400 --> 0:45:37.680 I mean Viking burials was like you put them out 0:45:37.680 --> 0:45:39.319 at sea and then you set them on fire. So 0:45:39.360 --> 0:45:41.280 it's combining Joe two of these things. 0:45:42.760 --> 0:45:43.400 I don't know. 0:45:43.840 --> 0:45:47.680 Oh my god, Okay, so whatever, there's a holocaust undertone 0:45:47.800 --> 0:45:50.160 and then and then he's like and then put it 0:45:50.160 --> 0:45:52.799 in a little jar. And at this point Judd is 0:45:52.840 --> 0:45:55.239 like putting his fists in his mouth, like he is 0:45:55.280 --> 0:45:58.279 not happy. And Joe and Ben loved their mother, so much. 0:45:58.320 --> 0:46:00.960 They kept her as she was where she wanted to be, 0:46:01.080 --> 0:46:04.000 in her home and if you ask me, that's love. 0:46:04.320 --> 0:46:07.200 And the jury's thinking they're taking it in, and he smiles. 0:46:07.200 --> 0:46:08.840 He knows he did a very good job in his 0:46:08.880 --> 0:46:11.840 opening statements. So the judge asks Stone to bring up 0:46:11.880 --> 0:46:14.520 the first witness, and judge stands up and says that's enough. 0:46:14.840 --> 0:46:16.480 And the judge tries to get him to stop and 0:46:16.520 --> 0:46:19.080 sit down, and he's like, no, judge, no, that's enough. 0:46:19.480 --> 0:46:22.080 And then Wallace looks confused and he says, I did it. 0:46:22.120 --> 0:46:24.440 I killed my mother. I did it. Ben had nothing 0:46:24.440 --> 0:46:27.400 to do with it. I did, and I'm so sorry mama, 0:46:27.440 --> 0:46:30.920 and he collapses into Wallace and he's full collapse. He 0:46:31.000 --> 0:46:32.839 is now in the hospital with a tube in his nose, 0:46:32.880 --> 0:46:35.680 and we hear Wallace yell, you stupid son of a bitch, 0:46:36.160 --> 0:46:37.280 always the martyr. 0:46:37.520 --> 0:46:39.360 Look what you did, you schmuck. 0:46:40.440 --> 0:46:43.560 Stone is behind this very private, intense moment, listening in 0:46:43.560 --> 0:46:45.920 to these brothers and like, can you just give him 0:46:45.960 --> 0:46:49.960 some space. Benson walks up to Stone and Stone fills 0:46:49.960 --> 0:46:52.839 her in that Judd Hirsh did have a massive coronary 0:46:53.640 --> 0:46:56.160 and again there's very sexy blue light on them. So 0:46:56.200 --> 0:47:00.000 this is like a nightclub hot that was wild blue lighting. Yeah, 0:47:00.160 --> 0:47:02.520 for a hospital that I noticed that. I was like, 0:47:02.560 --> 0:47:08.120 what's happening. Wallace just keeps crying and saying stupid, stupid, stupid, 0:47:08.400 --> 0:47:11.200 always hogging the stage. And now he's like full crying 0:47:11.200 --> 0:47:13.920 and he realizes he's really gonna like his brother's in trouble. 0:47:14.200 --> 0:47:16.440 So Benson says, your brother is still protecting you, and 0:47:16.480 --> 0:47:19.480 he says back, well, what do I have to protect nothing? 0:47:20.000 --> 0:47:23.200 The heart machine goes nuts, doctors run in and you know, 0:47:23.280 --> 0:47:27.160 everyone needs to get out, and Wallace keeps crying, what's happening, No, 0:47:27.280 --> 0:47:30.279 what's happening, what's going on? And Benson walks him out 0:47:30.360 --> 0:47:32.520 as they try to help Judd and put oxygen on him, 0:47:32.800 --> 0:47:35.120 and the doctor comes out and says, I'm sorry, and 0:47:35.160 --> 0:47:36.920 he asks if he can see him, and the doctor 0:47:36.960 --> 0:47:39.799 of course says yes. So Stone says he's going to 0:47:39.840 --> 0:47:42.759 go officially drop the charges against Wallace and walks off. 0:47:43.120 --> 0:47:45.759 Wallace is sitting over his brother's dead body. His name 0:47:45.840 --> 0:47:48.480 was Vincent, he says at the center. I know I 0:47:48.480 --> 0:47:50.520 should have told you, but I didn't have the strength. 0:47:50.600 --> 0:47:52.759 But I remember it as if it was today his 0:47:52.880 --> 0:47:55.600 spotted hands jerking forward and landing on top. 0:47:55.440 --> 0:47:56.000 Of my head. 0:47:56.320 --> 0:47:59.840 Retreat or resistance was futile, So I just reminded myself 0:47:59.880 --> 0:48:02.880 to breathe in and out. And Benson's in the doorway 0:48:02.920 --> 0:48:06.560 listening to the family's most sensitive moment, and she's so sad. 0:48:06.560 --> 0:48:09.600 They're all sad, and under the neon blue nightclub light, 0:48:09.719 --> 0:48:12.200 it pans out slowly and that's dick Wolf baby. 0:48:13.160 --> 0:48:16.239 Yeah, a real nightclub situation going on at that hospital. 0:48:17.360 --> 0:48:19.240 I mean, you know, this episode is wild. 0:48:19.360 --> 0:48:22.759 It's like sad and weird, and like it's also kind 0:48:22.760 --> 0:48:25.640 of weird that like Wallace Shawn's character, Like when they 0:48:25.680 --> 0:48:27.680 first brought you guys in, why didn't you just say, Hey, 0:48:27.760 --> 0:48:29.680 what's up? There's no Bobby, I'm Bobby. You were trying 0:48:29.680 --> 0:48:31.839 to pin the murder of an invisible person on your brother. 0:48:31.840 --> 0:48:33.640 I don't think you hate your brother that much. Like 0:48:33.719 --> 0:48:38.480 it was so weird, But this is based on like 0:48:38.640 --> 0:48:41.520 three different real life things. So let's go to our 0:48:41.600 --> 0:48:43.640 little messages and we'll be right back. 0:48:55.880 --> 0:48:56.759 Okay, we're back. 0:48:57.560 --> 0:49:01.480 So there's three little sections of the crime portion of this. 0:49:01.520 --> 0:49:05.880 I'll try to get through everything. So obviously Bobby's murder 0:49:05.920 --> 0:49:08.360 could be based on any number of murders of like 0:49:08.480 --> 0:49:11.360 innocent trans women. There is an epidemic of violence against 0:49:11.400 --> 0:49:15.040 Trump people, and it does seem though like that this 0:49:15.200 --> 0:49:18.440 timing wise is based off the murder of Angie Zapata, 0:49:18.520 --> 0:49:20.920 who was a trans woman killed in two thousand and 0:49:20.920 --> 0:49:24.239 eight in Colorado. Not based on timing, sorry, because it 0:49:24.280 --> 0:49:27.759 was ten years earlier, but just based on I'll get 0:49:27.760 --> 0:49:31.120 into it. So Angie was eighteen when she met Alan 0:49:31.400 --> 0:49:35.640 Andrade or Andreid, who was thirty one on the internet. 0:49:35.960 --> 0:49:40.440 They spent three days together engaged in some sexual activity, 0:49:40.840 --> 0:49:43.279 and then he realized that she was trans, and he 0:49:43.360 --> 0:49:45.919 beat her to death and drove off in her car 0:49:46.000 --> 0:49:47.520 at her own This was at her own home. 0:49:48.360 --> 0:49:49.880 It was very clearly a hate crime. 0:49:49.960 --> 0:49:52.680 His lawyer tried to use this like victim blaming strategy 0:49:52.760 --> 0:49:55.600 to excuse his behavior, like because you know, she kept 0:49:55.640 --> 0:49:57.880 it secret that she was trans and then he reacted. 0:49:57.960 --> 0:50:00.239 But he admitted to the crime on draw. 0:50:00.640 --> 0:50:03.360 Admitted to the crime and referred to Angie several times 0:50:03.360 --> 0:50:06.920 as it in interviews, and he was thankfully convicted of 0:50:06.960 --> 0:50:11.200 first dream murder, hate crimes, aggravated motor vehicle theft and 0:50:11.239 --> 0:50:13.719 identity theft and got life in prison without the possibility 0:50:13.760 --> 0:50:16.200 of pearl. So luckily he is a monster and he 0:50:16.280 --> 0:50:19.439 is in jail forever. But this was a landmark case 0:50:19.480 --> 0:50:21.920 because it was the first one in the US to 0:50:21.960 --> 0:50:24.960 get a conviction for a hate crime involving a transgender victim. 0:50:25.280 --> 0:50:26.880 So I feel like when they were talking about this 0:50:26.960 --> 0:50:30.759 guy killing Bobby, they were talking about how, oh he'll 0:50:30.800 --> 0:50:32.839 get they'll get a man one without and they'll drop 0:50:32.880 --> 0:50:35.800 the hate crime because it seemed like maybe it's hard 0:50:35.800 --> 0:50:38.000 to convict for a hate crime, but this was like 0:50:38.040 --> 0:50:41.400 the landmark case where it first happened, so that added 0:50:41.440 --> 0:50:43.360 like sixty years to his sentence that it was a 0:50:43.360 --> 0:50:47.880 hate crime as well. So it is important so that 0:50:48.120 --> 0:50:49.480 I wish dudes. 0:50:49.120 --> 0:50:50.759 Were just able to be like, oh, I guess I'm 0:50:50.760 --> 0:50:53.319 attracted to trans women and then living their lives. It's 0:50:53.320 --> 0:50:57.480 like so fucking annoying. Yeah, worse than annoying. 0:50:58.760 --> 0:51:02.040 No, it's horrific, Like this guy like beat her like 0:51:02.080 --> 0:51:04.680 with a fire extinguisher, Like it was a really horrific 0:51:04.680 --> 0:51:08.400 way to die. And it's just there's some resources that 0:51:08.400 --> 0:51:10.879 are in our show notes about Angie that you can 0:51:11.239 --> 0:51:15.440 check out as well. And the whole idea of the 0:51:15.440 --> 0:51:18.600 Bobby character being an actor paid to portray an author 0:51:18.920 --> 0:51:22.759 is based on the J. T. Leroy literary hoax. Now 0:51:22.760 --> 0:51:26.439 I had never heard of this. Jeremiah Terminator le Roi 0:51:27.400 --> 0:51:31.040 was known as JT. Leroy, was like a person who 0:51:31.080 --> 0:51:34.000 published a bunch of these books that were very similar 0:51:34.040 --> 0:51:37.120 to Blue Barracoda about life on the street, the semi 0:51:37.160 --> 0:51:42.760 autographical book about a teen boy his life of drugs, poverty, 0:51:42.800 --> 0:51:43.680 sexual abuse, etc. 0:51:45.160 --> 0:51:48.200 And it was Jeremiah Terminator Larroi known as JT. Leroy. 0:51:48.280 --> 0:51:49.440 But it turned out that J. T. 0:51:49.560 --> 0:51:52.800 Leroy was a persona created by another writer named Laura 0:51:52.840 --> 0:51:57.880 Albert in the nineties. Okay, le Roi quote unquote wrote 0:51:57.920 --> 0:52:02.840 three fictional books and they were obviously written by Laura, 0:52:02.880 --> 0:52:05.640 but then she pretended to be JT. Over the phone 0:52:05.680 --> 0:52:08.480 and an email with people. So after the first book 0:52:08.520 --> 0:52:10.160 came out, I believe it was called Sarah, it was 0:52:10.239 --> 0:52:13.600 optioned for movie stuff. Then people wanted to see who 0:52:13.640 --> 0:52:13.960 is J. T. 0:52:14.080 --> 0:52:14.319 Lowrey. 0:52:14.320 --> 0:52:17.240 They needed a face, right, so she got her sister 0:52:17.320 --> 0:52:22.320 in law, her husband's sister, Savannah Noop, started to appear 0:52:22.360 --> 0:52:26.560 in public as the writer JT. Leroy wearing sunglasses and 0:52:26.640 --> 0:52:30.120 a wig, and I'll tell you what people loved. J. T. 0:52:30.280 --> 0:52:30.680 Leroy. 0:52:30.920 --> 0:52:33.960 He was credited in liner notes and biographies for musicians 0:52:33.960 --> 0:52:38.200 like Billy Corgan, Liz Fair, Brian Adams, Marilyn Manson, Nancy Sinatra, 0:52:38.560 --> 0:52:42.560 Courtney Love and more. He corresponded with Madonna over email. 0:52:42.920 --> 0:52:46.520 He called Carrie Fisher for a personal friend and like 0:52:46.560 --> 0:52:48.279 I said, he had a movie deal in place and 0:52:48.320 --> 0:52:50.800 Gus Van Sant was supposed to direct it, the movie 0:52:50.800 --> 0:52:51.400 of the book. 0:52:51.200 --> 0:52:57.120 Sarah, I read the Marilyn Manson book. Oh yeah, that's interesting. 0:52:57.400 --> 0:52:59.520 Of all the books, well. 0:52:59.600 --> 0:53:02.640 You know, rocker and sports things are usually interesting. 0:53:02.800 --> 0:53:03.840 But it was fucked. 0:53:03.840 --> 0:53:07.200 He like talked about his grandfather having krusty dildos, and like, 0:53:07.920 --> 0:53:10.360 I just remember in the book there was photos of 0:53:10.400 --> 0:53:14.560 girls at his concerts that like cut Marilyn Manson's name 0:53:14.719 --> 0:53:18.120 with blood chests and stuff. Oh no, so I think 0:53:18.160 --> 0:53:20.239 I was at the Like I remember reading The Red 0:53:20.280 --> 0:53:21.600 Hot Anthony Keitha's book. 0:53:21.600 --> 0:53:24.280 I think I just liked reading about memoirs. 0:53:24.320 --> 0:53:28.960 Drugs. Yeah, no, like drugs, bad stuff, sex. Right, did 0:53:29.000 --> 0:53:34.279 you read go ask Galis? Yes, you know that's not real? Yes, Okay, yeah, 0:53:34.400 --> 0:53:34.759 I don't know. 0:53:34.840 --> 0:53:36.680 I just found that out with like this article that 0:53:36.719 --> 0:53:38.600 came out about how that was like a Mormon like 0:53:38.680 --> 0:53:40.080 propaganda or something. 0:53:40.920 --> 0:53:43.920 Yeah, but we should have known because it was too intense, 0:53:44.000 --> 0:53:45.399 Like it was like, this is not real. 0:53:45.440 --> 0:53:47.400 I mean, we do no intense things happen to people. 0:53:47.440 --> 0:53:49.040 But yeah, that book. 0:53:48.880 --> 0:53:51.920 Was like the the secret book to read in school, 0:53:52.080 --> 0:53:53.680 like check it out, but like it was like so 0:53:53.840 --> 0:53:54.880 scandalous to read it. 0:53:55.200 --> 0:53:58.560 I remember that. So in two thousand. 0:53:58.280 --> 0:54:03.560 And five, finally JT was exposed as being Laura. A 0:54:03.600 --> 0:54:06.840 couple of reporters like basically wrote big stories about it 0:54:06.880 --> 0:54:09.480 and were like, this is not this person doesn't exist, 0:54:09.480 --> 0:54:13.280 it's this woman. And she later said that she used 0:54:13.360 --> 0:54:17.000 the persona of JT as quote unquote a veil to 0:54:17.080 --> 0:54:20.840 protect herself and from her own past about like evolving 0:54:20.880 --> 0:54:22.680 sex work and violence. And she said it was like 0:54:22.680 --> 0:54:27.680 a survival mechanism. And she did tell interview magazine quote, 0:54:27.920 --> 0:54:31.120 you know, JT. Leroy does not exist, but he lives. 0:54:31.719 --> 0:54:34.200 That's what a famous film historian once said about bugs 0:54:34.200 --> 0:54:35.440 Bunny end quote. 0:54:35.760 --> 0:54:39.640 So I don't know what's going on, but she. 0:54:39.719 --> 0:54:42.719 Did lose the movie deal because they said it was fraudulent, 0:54:42.800 --> 0:54:45.480 so the movie never got made. And in two thousand 0:54:45.480 --> 0:54:48.680 and eight, Savannah Noop, which I'm obsessed with this last name, 0:54:48.680 --> 0:54:54.080 it's Knop Noop. Savannah Noop published a memoir called Girl 0:54:54.120 --> 0:54:56.840 Boy Girl, How I Became J. T Leroy about the 0:54:56.880 --> 0:55:01.880 six years she spent impersonating jt Leroy. There was a 0:55:01.960 --> 0:55:05.920 movie called jt Leroy where Laura Dern played Laura Albert 0:55:06.000 --> 0:55:08.880 and Kristin Stewart played Savannah and it came out in 0:55:08.920 --> 0:55:11.920 twenty nineteen, and I guess nobody really cared. I've never 0:55:11.920 --> 0:55:15.200 heard of it, and those are two pretty big stars 0:55:15.239 --> 0:55:17.799 for twenty nineteen. Maybe I don't know what happened, but 0:55:18.120 --> 0:55:20.600 it came out and it got like fifty percent on 0:55:20.640 --> 0:55:22.640 Rotten Tomatoes, like it didn't totally bomb, but it didn't 0:55:22.680 --> 0:55:24.880 do well either, Like it's so strange. I saw like 0:55:24.920 --> 0:55:26.520 a whole cover of it, and maybe I'd be interested 0:55:26.560 --> 0:55:28.479 in watching it now. But it was like a big 0:55:28.480 --> 0:55:30.680 thing in the literary world. Some people thought it was 0:55:30.719 --> 0:55:34.719 cool that she like hacked the literary like system of 0:55:34.760 --> 0:55:38.359 like the literary world and all the literati bullshit, and 0:55:38.400 --> 0:55:40.520 then other people were like it was a hoax. 0:55:40.920 --> 0:55:43.400 Do you remember that guy who went on Oprah and 0:55:43.480 --> 0:55:45.960 lied like yeah million little pieces. 0:55:46.040 --> 0:55:48.600 Yeah that was huge too, another literary hoax. 0:55:49.840 --> 0:55:56.360 So now the Edelman Brothers are based on a very 0:55:56.360 --> 0:55:58.520 famous set of brothers. I did not know about these people, 0:55:58.800 --> 0:56:01.880 but they're called the Collier Others. Their names were Homer 0:56:01.960 --> 0:56:06.240 and Langley, two very eccentric brothers who lived together basically 0:56:06.280 --> 0:56:10.200 as hermits in Harlem and were like og horders, like 0:56:10.360 --> 0:56:14.200 just like this episode. Their brownstone was at two zero 0:56:14.360 --> 0:56:17.279 seven eight Fifth Avenue, which is at Fifth Avenue and 0:56:17.280 --> 0:56:21.120 twenty eighth Street, and was filled with like books, furniture, 0:56:21.680 --> 0:56:22.600 musical instruments. 0:56:22.600 --> 0:56:23.960 They found fourteen. 0:56:23.560 --> 0:56:26.520 Pianos when they finally went in there, like just tons 0:56:26.520 --> 0:56:28.239 and tons of crap, just like what they show in 0:56:28.280 --> 0:56:32.640 the episode. They also set up booby traps, like I 0:56:32.680 --> 0:56:35.480 assumed in the episode that Carriesie just kind of like 0:56:35.719 --> 0:56:38.359 fell against a bookshelf or something just fell over on him, 0:56:38.520 --> 0:56:41.120 that these are actually booby traps that these guys set 0:56:41.520 --> 0:56:45.440 to stop anyone who broke in, intruders, invaders, anything like that. 0:56:45.680 --> 0:56:50.600 So it's it's a wild, a wild story, these these 0:56:50.600 --> 0:56:52.880 two guys. So to give a little bit of their background, 0:56:52.960 --> 0:56:56.600 their parents were first cousins. Yikes, never going to be great, 0:56:57.480 --> 0:56:59.839 and then after their mother's death, it seems like they 0:57:00.040 --> 0:57:02.080 really love their mother the same way that these guys do. 0:57:02.520 --> 0:57:05.400 The brothers inherited the Brownstone and they lived in it together. 0:57:06.120 --> 0:57:09.160 They had a pretty normal life. They both taught Sunday school. 0:57:09.440 --> 0:57:12.080 Homer was a lawyer and Langley was a piano dealer 0:57:12.120 --> 0:57:14.680 because he actually used to be a concert pianist and 0:57:14.800 --> 0:57:20.000 even played at Carnegie Hall. But then another guy named Padrewski. 0:57:20.080 --> 0:57:23.840 His name is Ignaci Johan Padrewski, who was a huge 0:57:23.880 --> 0:57:27.200 Polish piano player and later became the Prime Minister of Poland. 0:57:27.560 --> 0:57:31.840 Apparently he was getting better reviews than Langley at Carnegie Hall, 0:57:31.920 --> 0:57:34.280 so Langley just quit playing piano. He was like, wow, 0:57:34.320 --> 0:57:36.280 he's better than me, so what's the point. So these 0:57:36.280 --> 0:57:38.000 guys are eccentric, but. 0:57:37.960 --> 0:57:38.640 They still went out. 0:57:38.680 --> 0:57:41.800 At this point, they had started to slightly withdraw due 0:57:41.800 --> 0:57:45.480 to the changing demographics of the neighborhood. I eat, black 0:57:45.480 --> 0:57:48.160 people moving in. The Harlem started to become like a 0:57:48.160 --> 0:57:51.200 black community, and so these guys were low key racists, 0:57:51.280 --> 0:57:54.280 high key racists. They just started to not go out 0:57:54.280 --> 0:57:57.320 as much and withdraw a little bit from community life, 0:57:57.360 --> 0:58:00.280 and then Homer had some kind of health of I 0:58:00.280 --> 0:58:02.040 would read in some places that it was a stroke, 0:58:02.080 --> 0:58:04.160 other that it was like a hemorrhage, but he lost 0:58:04.160 --> 0:58:07.760 his eyesight, and Langley then quit his job to take 0:58:07.800 --> 0:58:09.840 care of his brother full time, and their shut in 0:58:09.880 --> 0:58:11.560 lifestyle truly began. 0:58:12.320 --> 0:58:14.000 And then they became sort. 0:58:13.840 --> 0:58:16.439 Of like NYC folklore, And so people would hear about 0:58:16.440 --> 0:58:18.600 these eccentric brothers and they would come and gawk at them, 0:58:18.640 --> 0:58:20.400 like people would stand around the house and try to 0:58:20.400 --> 0:58:22.760 get a look, and that made the brothers become even 0:58:22.800 --> 0:58:25.760 more paranoid, Like kids would throw rocks through their windows, 0:58:25.760 --> 0:58:28.080 so then they'd board up their windows. People tried to 0:58:28.160 --> 0:58:30.320 rob them, so then they set up all these booby traps. 0:58:30.360 --> 0:58:33.240 So it's like everything that people did also push them 0:58:33.440 --> 0:58:37.320 further and further into this like seclusion that they were in. 0:58:37.760 --> 0:58:40.600 So Langley, you don't get the feeling that it was 0:58:40.680 --> 0:58:43.680 like the same cattiness as these two brothers, that they 0:58:43.680 --> 0:58:45.640 were fighting each other all the time, Like Langley was 0:58:45.680 --> 0:58:48.280 apparently very protective of Homer and would never let anyone 0:58:48.320 --> 0:58:50.960 see or speak to him, like they would never take 0:58:51.000 --> 0:58:53.240 home or to a doctor. They did not trust doctors, 0:58:53.280 --> 0:58:55.720 even though their father was a gynecologist. They said they 0:58:55.800 --> 0:58:58.919 knew too much about medicine to trust doctors, so never 0:58:58.960 --> 0:59:01.600 went to a doctor. And Langley thought he could cure 0:59:01.640 --> 0:59:04.760 Homer with diet and rest. So he would feed Homer 0:59:05.440 --> 0:59:10.240 a diet of one hundred oranges a week, black bread, 0:59:10.320 --> 0:59:12.160 which I googled and I think it's just rye bread, 0:59:12.320 --> 0:59:15.280 and then butt peanut butter. And he swore that this 0:59:15.360 --> 0:59:18.360 diet was the cure, but big shock, it was not. 0:59:18.560 --> 0:59:22.920 Homer got sicker. He eventually became paralyzed by rheumatism. So 0:59:23.000 --> 0:59:27.640 now the New York Times publishes an article that erroneously 0:59:27.720 --> 0:59:30.040 claims that they had turned down an offer for one 0:59:30.120 --> 0:59:32.960 hundred and twenty five thousand dollars for the Brownstone, which 0:59:33.000 --> 0:59:35.200 at the if you were to think about it in 0:59:35.200 --> 0:59:38.760 today's money, would be over a million dollars, And that 0:59:38.880 --> 0:59:41.120 just wasn't true. This article also implied that the brothers 0:59:41.160 --> 0:59:43.600 had some kind of secret fortune, which was also false, 0:59:43.760 --> 0:59:46.160 and this helped add to like people gawking and showing 0:59:46.200 --> 0:59:46.840 up at their house. 0:59:46.880 --> 0:59:48.040 Was this New York Times article. 0:59:49.160 --> 0:59:52.880 Eventually, in nineteen thirty seven, their phone was disconnected and 0:59:52.920 --> 0:59:56.200 in nineteen thirty eighth or electricity and water was cut off, 0:59:56.320 --> 1:00:01.520 so they heeded their house with a kerosee heater. Langley 1:00:01.560 --> 1:00:03.520 would go get their water from a pump in a 1:00:03.560 --> 1:00:07.360 nearby park, and since he was an engineer, Langley Jerry 1:00:07.440 --> 1:00:11.720 rigged a Model t Ford to be their generator for electricity. 1:00:11.800 --> 1:00:14.600 So these guys are like running a car inside their 1:00:14.640 --> 1:00:16.160 house to make electricity. 1:00:16.200 --> 1:00:20.280 Like it's truly wild. Pre isn't that bad like exhaust 1:00:20.320 --> 1:00:21.440 fumes indoors? Sure? 1:00:21.760 --> 1:00:24.800 Yeah, of course, I'm sure it was like horrible, especially 1:00:24.800 --> 1:00:27.240 because like exhaust fumes with on a Model t Ford 1:00:27.240 --> 1:00:29.120 are probably worse than they are now where there's like, 1:00:29.200 --> 1:00:32.000 you know, different filters and shit. But they lived like 1:00:32.080 --> 1:00:34.320 this for almost a decade. Like they lived like this 1:00:34.800 --> 1:00:37.080 throughout the end of the thirties, halfway into the forties. 1:00:37.320 --> 1:00:39.720 And then in nineteen forty seven, the police get an 1:00:39.720 --> 1:00:42.240 anonymous call that there's a dead body in the house. 1:00:42.520 --> 1:00:46.080 They said they could smell something decomposing, so the police 1:00:46.120 --> 1:00:49.120 sent someone over. They police couldnot even get into the. 1:00:49.040 --> 1:00:50.880 House because there was so much shit, you know. 1:00:51.200 --> 1:00:54.320 So after five hours of like digging through all this stuff, 1:00:54.520 --> 1:00:58.240 they do find Homer's body. Surrounded by boxes of stuff, 1:00:58.320 --> 1:01:00.880 stacks of newspaper, all every things, reaches up to the 1:01:00.920 --> 1:01:04.200 ceiling like it's wild and he has been dead for 1:01:04.280 --> 1:01:06.760 ten hours. So that's weird because that wouldn't be that 1:01:06.760 --> 1:01:07.880 wouldn't have a smell yet. 1:01:07.920 --> 1:01:08.560 Okay. 1:01:08.720 --> 1:01:12.080 His cause of death was starvation and heart disease. So 1:01:12.120 --> 1:01:14.760 now a lot of people assumed that Langley had called 1:01:14.800 --> 1:01:17.480 in the tip and then like busted ass out of town. 1:01:17.840 --> 1:01:19.760 But people got suspicious when he didn't show up to 1:01:19.760 --> 1:01:22.000 his brother's funeral because they were super close and he 1:01:22.000 --> 1:01:25.000 would have showed up. So then they go back into 1:01:25.120 --> 1:01:27.800 the house on April eighth, this is like two weeks later, 1:01:28.000 --> 1:01:31.280 and they find Langley's body ten feet away from where 1:01:31.280 --> 1:01:32.040 they found Homer. 1:01:32.440 --> 1:01:34.520 He was in a tunnel that he had built. It 1:01:34.520 --> 1:01:34.880 was one of the. 1:01:34.840 --> 1:01:38.960 Booby traps and it was surrounded with rusty bedsprings inside 1:01:39.000 --> 1:01:41.600 the tunnel, but he had somehow set off the booby 1:01:41.600 --> 1:01:45.160 trap and he'd been crushed. So he died actually on 1:01:45.240 --> 1:01:47.480 March ninth. They didn't find his body for a month 1:01:48.040 --> 1:01:51.439 and so he died. His cause of death was asphyxiation, 1:01:52.000 --> 1:01:53.840 and his brother couldn't survive without him. He was the 1:01:53.880 --> 1:01:55.640 one that brought him food and did everything for him. 1:01:55.680 --> 1:01:58.080 So eleven days after his brother died. 1:01:58.640 --> 1:01:59.280 Homer died. 1:01:59.560 --> 1:02:03.320 And then so it was actually Langley's body that was 1:02:03.360 --> 1:02:06.480 the smell and had it had been getting eaten by rats. 1:02:06.280 --> 1:02:09.480 And so it was like really gross, but so sad like. 1:02:09.520 --> 1:02:11.480 And I wonder if Homer just died thinking that his 1:02:11.520 --> 1:02:14.360 brother abandoned him or like what he'd like what happened, 1:02:14.400 --> 1:02:20.280 you know, But these two sad agoraphobic racists were just 1:02:20.760 --> 1:02:23.240 trapped in their house and surrounded by all their crap. 1:02:23.600 --> 1:02:26.000 So anyway, a year after they were found, the house 1:02:26.080 --> 1:02:28.840 was demolished and the property is now a pocket park, 1:02:28.880 --> 1:02:31.720 which is named after the brothers. In two thousand and two, 1:02:32.320 --> 1:02:35.480 the Harlem Fifth Avenue Block Association wanted to change the 1:02:35.840 --> 1:02:37.160 name of the park because they're like, what did the 1:02:37.200 --> 1:02:40.760 Collier brothers ever do for Harlem? And Parks Commissioner Adrian 1:02:40.840 --> 1:02:44.920 Benepe said, quote, sometimes history is written by accident, so 1:02:44.960 --> 1:02:47.920 there are some historic names that are not necessarily celebrated. 1:02:48.000 --> 1:02:50.520 Not all history is pretty, and many New York children 1:02:50.520 --> 1:02:53.160 were admonished by their parents to clean their room quote, 1:02:53.240 --> 1:02:56.160 or else you'll end up like the Collier brothers end quote. 1:02:56.600 --> 1:02:59.000 So I guess they're always going to be a huge 1:02:59.040 --> 1:03:04.080 part of New York City lore. And then side note, 1:03:04.120 --> 1:03:06.360 I did look up like hoarding. I really wanted to know, 1:03:06.400 --> 1:03:08.480 like what's the cause of? Like they actually have not 1:03:08.800 --> 1:03:11.120 determined the cause of hoarding, And it wasn't actually until 1:03:11.160 --> 1:03:13.960 twenty thirteen that compulsive hoarding was even defined as a 1:03:14.000 --> 1:03:18.200 mental disorder, and psychologists apparently still cannot decide whether it 1:03:18.280 --> 1:03:22.720 is a manifestation of another commission condition like OCD or 1:03:23.160 --> 1:03:27.120 another disorder that would have you know, hoarding as a 1:03:27.160 --> 1:03:29.720 side symptom, or if it's its own disorder. But it 1:03:29.760 --> 1:03:32.840 is estimated that two to five percent of adults suffer 1:03:32.880 --> 1:03:33.360 from hoarding. 1:03:34.480 --> 1:03:37.920 So wait, so when the brother didn't show up to 1:03:37.960 --> 1:03:39.760 the funeral, it's because he was dead in the house. 1:03:39.960 --> 1:03:41.560 Yes, got it. 1:03:41.600 --> 1:03:44.160 They thought he had just but they he was ten 1:03:44.200 --> 1:03:45.880 feet away from where they found the other body, but 1:03:45.880 --> 1:03:48.600 they just couldn't see him because there's so much crap 1:03:48.640 --> 1:03:50.800 in the house. So when they finally got them out 1:03:50.800 --> 1:03:55.040 of the house, I should mention they removed one hundred 1:03:55.120 --> 1:04:01.960 and forty tons of stuff. So that's eighty thousand pounds, 1:04:02.400 --> 1:04:02.840 Is that right? 1:04:03.360 --> 1:04:05.480 That's yeah, I don't know about mad when they had 1:04:05.840 --> 1:04:09.640 just imagining how many elephants it would be when I 1:04:09.640 --> 1:04:13.320 heard so many. When I hear elephants, so do I actually, 1:04:13.680 --> 1:04:17.320 But yeah, they didn't really commit crimes. 1:04:18.160 --> 1:04:20.520 No, but these guys are based on them, but they 1:04:20.680 --> 1:04:22.840 I think they wanted to do something about these guys, 1:04:22.880 --> 1:04:25.360 and then they did the dead mom thing because these 1:04:25.400 --> 1:04:27.440 guys did love their mom, and it does seem like 1:04:27.760 --> 1:04:29.920 after their mother died is when they sort of descended 1:04:29.920 --> 1:04:32.920 more into madness. Yeah, but then I think they they 1:04:32.920 --> 1:04:34.840 needed to have there be some kind of hook to 1:04:34.880 --> 1:04:36.560 get these guys, you know. 1:04:36.640 --> 1:04:39.200 And their names are so old timey. This is such 1:04:39.240 --> 1:04:43.640 a interesting, wild old timey thing. 1:04:43.760 --> 1:04:49.400 Homer and Langley Collier, yeah and so and apparently apparently 1:04:49.440 --> 1:04:52.520 firemen when they go into houses that are like filled 1:04:52.560 --> 1:04:55.880 with crap, like hoarderhouses, they say, oh, it's like a 1:04:55.880 --> 1:04:58.960 Collier mansion. Like it's like a thing that they say. So, 1:05:00.200 --> 1:05:02.840 these guys went down in history and then they got played. 1:05:02.880 --> 1:05:05.400 They got played as the Eaedelman brothers by two legends. 1:05:05.760 --> 1:05:08.720 So that's that, and we've got a great guest and 1:05:08.760 --> 1:05:19.000 we'll be right back. Okay, guys, I am really pumped 1:05:19.040 --> 1:05:23.600 for today's guests. He is an actor, a teacher of 1:05:23.640 --> 1:05:26.240 the art of acting, an author, and an all around 1:05:26.320 --> 1:05:28.720 theater guru. He is best known for his roles in 1:05:28.760 --> 1:05:32.080 The Wire, Billions and The Deuce, but if you watch 1:05:32.120 --> 1:05:34.680 us for you you know him as the slightly slimy 1:05:34.760 --> 1:05:36.520 Evan Brawn and. 1:05:36.640 --> 1:05:37.360 You're gonna love it. 1:05:37.400 --> 1:05:40.360 We got to talk to the very talented Michael Kostrof. 1:05:41.080 --> 1:05:44.760 All right, Michael, thank you so much for today. 1:05:44.760 --> 1:05:45.560 What pleasure. 1:05:46.720 --> 1:05:49.680 I'm shocked he're in LA. To be honest, why is 1:05:49.720 --> 1:05:53.480 that you? Just because of SVU theater? I just assumed 1:05:53.520 --> 1:05:54.520 you were a New York guy. 1:05:55.080 --> 1:05:57.400 I do my best to confuse people about where I live. 1:05:57.720 --> 1:06:02.000 Yeah, that's Michael, a local higher anywhere really pretty much. 1:06:02.520 --> 1:06:05.000 And also every couple of years, I get itchy and 1:06:05.040 --> 1:06:09.440 I changed locations just because you know, so, Yeah, I've 1:06:09.720 --> 1:06:12.200 I've lived both places and I am currently in LA. 1:06:12.640 --> 1:06:17.080 But are you a native New Yorker? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:06:17.120 --> 1:06:22.800 you have that vibe and so like as a native 1:06:22.800 --> 1:06:24.640 new Yorker. We've talked to some other Native new Yorkers 1:06:24.640 --> 1:06:27.120 on the podcast, like is it always like the dream 1:06:27.200 --> 1:06:29.080 to get Law and Order? And like so you can 1:06:29.160 --> 1:06:31.280 perform in your own town and it's like, you know, 1:06:31.440 --> 1:06:33.000 such a classic. 1:06:33.280 --> 1:06:35.520 Oh god, this answer is going to sound so dickish, 1:06:35.600 --> 1:06:41.080 but I okay, I'm just gonna say it's it's early 1:06:41.120 --> 1:06:43.520 and I'm not editing because I'm you know, drinking my coffee. 1:06:45.120 --> 1:06:49.400 I had enough of a TV sort of career going 1:06:49.480 --> 1:06:52.880 that it wasn't like the big thing to bring that. 1:06:52.800 --> 1:06:54.920 Bell because it wasn't your first thing like it is 1:06:54.920 --> 1:06:56.120 for a lot of people, right. 1:06:56.240 --> 1:06:59.080 I was really I'm always just glad to be working. 1:06:59.160 --> 1:07:01.280 You know, I'm pretty pretty easy to please. And I 1:07:01.480 --> 1:07:04.080 you know what's been lovely is how many times they've 1:07:04.080 --> 1:07:06.880 had me back. My wife and I counted recently, it's 1:07:06.880 --> 1:07:10.200 like like eight or nine episodes, which is amazing. Were 1:07:10.240 --> 1:07:12.240 like it's like probably four or five. No, they keep 1:07:12.480 --> 1:07:14.919 having me back. And I love working on the shows. 1:07:15.040 --> 1:07:19.040 It's a really really great set. It's a great vibe. 1:07:19.120 --> 1:07:21.200 And I mean, I can't say enough about Mrs Garcite. 1:07:21.640 --> 1:07:25.360 I probably will expound as we call up, but she's 1:07:25.560 --> 1:07:28.640 so so great to work with and funny. What people 1:07:28.640 --> 1:07:29.800 don't know is how funny she is. 1:07:30.040 --> 1:07:33.160 Yeah, I mean, you're our ninety ninth guest, I think, 1:07:33.560 --> 1:07:37.480 and every single person pretty much is like, she's the 1:07:37.520 --> 1:07:40.760 best person I've ever met in my life. So we're like, 1:07:40.880 --> 1:07:43.920 maybe maybe one hundred will be like Na not for me, 1:07:44.560 --> 1:07:45.280 but I don't like her so. 1:07:47.040 --> 1:07:49.360 Well. She messes with me because I mean she sort 1:07:49.400 --> 1:07:50.840 of caught on that she could that she could fuck 1:07:50.880 --> 1:07:54.160 around with me, and so so there's always something, you know, 1:07:55.040 --> 1:07:57.160 when she met my wife and step kids, she said, 1:07:57.200 --> 1:07:59.880 I'm so sorry, oh my god, you must have gone. 1:08:00.080 --> 1:08:02.880 Or she's just very fair. But yeah, so that's why, 1:08:03.040 --> 1:08:05.520 very very much too long winded answer to your first question, 1:08:05.560 --> 1:08:08.040 which is, no, it wasn't like I gotta ring that bell. 1:08:08.160 --> 1:08:11.600 It was you know, it was just a great job. 1:08:12.080 --> 1:08:14.680 Yeah, just a great job, which is nice in itself. 1:08:14.880 --> 1:08:15.360 Yeah. 1:08:15.400 --> 1:08:17.000 Well, I was just gonna say they had you on 1:08:17.120 --> 1:08:20.040 the first episode is Russian Brides in twenty eleven, where 1:08:20.080 --> 1:08:23.280 you're kind of like a tax attorney doing a friend 1:08:23.280 --> 1:08:26.360 of favor and then suddenly they bring you back three 1:08:26.439 --> 1:08:28.559 years later and you become one of the most most 1:08:28.600 --> 1:08:33.040 like notorious, like smarmy das that we have in the 1:08:33.160 --> 1:08:35.920 later seasons, like yeah, we we have like a bunch 1:08:35.920 --> 1:08:38.439 of guys throughout. I'm sure you know the actors like 1:08:38.520 --> 1:08:42.559 David Thornton and Delaney Williams, like they are both these 1:08:42.560 --> 1:08:44.400 defense attorneys on the show that are like you see 1:08:44.439 --> 1:08:46.800 them and you're like, oh, they're getting hired by rich people. 1:08:46.840 --> 1:08:47.320 They did it. 1:08:47.360 --> 1:08:49.439 They're trying to get off, and you feel like you're 1:08:49.439 --> 1:08:51.799 like the next in that pantheon of guys. 1:08:52.000 --> 1:08:54.960 Oh yeah, they only bring me on to defend terrible people. 1:08:55.200 --> 1:08:57.400 Yeah, but like it's just funny because I was looking 1:08:57.400 --> 1:08:59.640 at Yeah, I was watching Russian Brides, I go, he 1:08:59.680 --> 1:09:01.280 was like an nice guy in the first one. 1:09:01.439 --> 1:09:03.360 It was a different character, different name. It's the only 1:09:03.400 --> 1:09:04.080 show where they do that. 1:09:04.200 --> 1:09:07.559 Oh they have it in IMDb. Is Evan Maybe that's 1:09:07.560 --> 1:09:08.120 a mistake. 1:09:08.479 --> 1:09:11.479 Lies, Oh it's a lie. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I 1:09:11.479 --> 1:09:15.439 had a different name. I'm almost positive. It's the only 1:09:15.439 --> 1:09:17.760 show where they where they that I know of, where 1:09:17.760 --> 1:09:19.400 they'll bring somebody back as a different character. 1:09:19.560 --> 1:09:21.840 Well, well, then somebody needs to edit the wikiped the 1:09:22.200 --> 1:09:25.599 Law and Order fandom because Evan Brawn's bio it says 1:09:25.640 --> 1:09:28.240 he starts as a tax attorney and then it comes. 1:09:28.240 --> 1:09:30.280 You know what, they are probably more right than I am. 1:09:30.439 --> 1:09:33.240 I think there's a better chance that they know better 1:09:33.320 --> 1:09:35.000 than I do because I don't. I don't track. 1:09:35.240 --> 1:09:38.479 Yeah, but we get off on finding mistakes and things. 1:09:38.560 --> 1:09:41.360 So we also got kind of I just got it excited. 1:09:41.360 --> 1:09:46.040 I was like, yes, we could tell them that they. 1:09:42.680 --> 1:09:46.519 Want, I mean, we should. I don't know how to 1:09:46.600 --> 1:09:47.679 look that up exactly. 1:09:47.800 --> 1:09:49.840 I know, I don't know how to figure it out 1:09:49.920 --> 1:09:51.479 unless we go about we can watch the episode. 1:09:51.479 --> 1:09:52.760 See if they say your name, you go. 1:09:52.720 --> 1:09:54.960 Watch the episode. Yeah. But but yeah, I was very 1:09:55.040 --> 1:09:57.879 very nice and completely inapt. And then I think probably 1:09:57.920 --> 1:10:00.360 somebody watched the wire and went, hey, bring him back, 1:10:01.760 --> 1:10:03.080 got it? Yeah? 1:10:03.720 --> 1:10:07.439 Yeah? Johnny D? Was he so tall? I don't know that. 1:10:09.040 --> 1:10:11.920 Super tall? Super tall? Yeah? 1:10:12.040 --> 1:10:12.880 Yeah, Johnny D. 1:10:13.000 --> 1:10:17.120 The guy that that is Benson's child's biological father and 1:10:17.160 --> 1:10:18.879 a sex trafficking murderer. 1:10:19.000 --> 1:10:21.799 Well, and that's the only way I get any work. Yeah, 1:10:21.920 --> 1:10:25.400 I mean, either somebody's trying to convert somebody through rape 1:10:25.600 --> 1:10:29.080 or bury their mother in a freezer or something. You know, 1:10:29.120 --> 1:10:30.719 it's like one of those things has to happen. 1:10:31.320 --> 1:10:32.679 Well, and you have to have a little bit of money. 1:10:32.680 --> 1:10:36.840 Evan Brown doesn't come cheap, right o. Yeah, he's he's 1:10:36.840 --> 1:10:37.920 either on retainer or. 1:10:37.840 --> 1:10:40.679 He's got a hefty But how did these hoarders afford him? 1:10:41.040 --> 1:10:46.360 That's wild. Maybe they have that's interesting. 1:10:45.439 --> 1:10:48.599 Good question, And maybe the case was just sick enough 1:10:48.640 --> 1:10:53.400 that I did at Pro Bowl. I don't know. This 1:10:53.479 --> 1:10:55.080 is a wonderful thing about being an actor. I don't 1:10:55.120 --> 1:10:56.880 have to know a damn thing. I don't know anything. 1:10:57.439 --> 1:10:59.200 Tell me what to say and where to stand, and 1:10:59.240 --> 1:11:01.280 I do it. And I it a million years ago 1:11:01.320 --> 1:11:04.680 when I was on West Wing and my character was 1:11:04.720 --> 1:11:08.040 talking about some particular feature of the US Code, and 1:11:08.080 --> 1:11:09.800 I said to the writer. The writer was very sweet 1:11:09.800 --> 1:11:11.960 and he was befriending me. I said, I never knew 1:11:11.960 --> 1:11:15.080 about that. He goes, I made it up. He's like, 1:11:15.120 --> 1:11:17.639 this is not a history book. Man. Don't you can't 1:11:17.840 --> 1:11:20.000 trust West Wing to give you facts about how the 1:11:20.000 --> 1:11:20.839 government works? 1:11:20.840 --> 1:11:23.040 Oh my god, I said. 1:11:23.320 --> 1:11:26.040 Unfortunately, people do trust law in order for facts about 1:11:26.040 --> 1:11:27.240 the law and order system. 1:11:27.439 --> 1:11:30.840 Of course they do. I had a lawyer friend, and 1:11:30.880 --> 1:11:33.280 I used to call her to work on my wirescripts, 1:11:33.320 --> 1:11:35.960 and she'd go, you can't say that in court. 1:11:36.400 --> 1:11:38.880 So it's yeah, it's that's so funny. 1:11:38.960 --> 1:11:41.599 It's entertainment, friends, It really is yeah. 1:11:41.640 --> 1:11:43.800 We have a lot of lawyer listeners that are like, yeah, 1:11:43.840 --> 1:11:47.240 this would never happen, like prosecutors don't go to the 1:11:47.280 --> 1:11:51.160 crime scene, like you know, stuff like that. So so 1:11:51.880 --> 1:11:55.000 this episode you got to do like your part is 1:11:55.200 --> 1:11:58.599 you know, you're defending these two Alta conkers. I guess 1:11:58.640 --> 1:12:00.240 it is the name of the episode, and that's yeah, 1:12:00.360 --> 1:12:03.519 these guys are. And so you get to do this 1:12:03.600 --> 1:12:06.800 big opening argument to the jury, which is like we 1:12:06.880 --> 1:12:09.679 call it an SVU Bingo card moment, like you either 1:12:09.680 --> 1:12:12.000 get carried out of the courtroom screaming, you get to 1:12:12.560 --> 1:12:15.280 do an opening argument. You know, like that's that's pretty 1:12:15.280 --> 1:12:17.439 big for a card. 1:12:18.160 --> 1:12:20.040 We should make it. We just talk about it, but 1:12:20.080 --> 1:12:20.640 we should make it. 1:12:20.840 --> 1:12:22.400 Yeah, but it is. 1:12:22.760 --> 1:12:25.240 It was beautifully written and it was just such a 1:12:25.479 --> 1:12:28.200 beautiful scene, and it was, yeah, we loved watching your 1:12:28.240 --> 1:12:29.400 opening arguments. 1:12:29.000 --> 1:12:30.920 In this you had me. I was like, let them go. 1:12:31.000 --> 1:12:32.000 They didn't do anything. 1:12:32.400 --> 1:12:35.360 I loved the gall of standing in front of a 1:12:35.439 --> 1:12:38.720 jury and saying, yes, they put their mother in a 1:12:38.760 --> 1:12:43.320 freezer and that's love. Somehow and somehow, somehow, and I 1:12:43.840 --> 1:12:45.400 said to the director, I said, I don't want to 1:12:45.439 --> 1:12:47.880 pace back and forth. I just want to stand there 1:12:47.880 --> 1:12:50.080 and say this with a straight face, and it's like 1:12:50.479 --> 1:12:58.000 it's insane, insane argument, but it's yeah, so so beautifully written. 1:12:58.320 --> 1:12:59.960 It's like they just wanted to be close to her. 1:13:00.360 --> 1:13:00.719 Yeah. 1:13:01.120 --> 1:13:03.000 I mean I was arguing it with Lisa when we 1:13:03.040 --> 1:13:05.640 recorded the episode of the podcast. I was like, you know, 1:13:05.920 --> 1:13:07.800 I don't want to be buried, and I guess some 1:13:07.840 --> 1:13:10.360 people have a problem with cremation. So you know, if 1:13:10.400 --> 1:13:12.880 you've got a freezer, if you've got a deep freeze 1:13:12.920 --> 1:13:14.599 and you've got the real estate for it in New York, 1:13:14.760 --> 1:13:15.920 I mean, why not. 1:13:17.000 --> 1:13:18.840 Very strange, very strange world. 1:13:19.280 --> 1:13:23.240 Can you tell us about any other like memorable moments 1:13:23.280 --> 1:13:25.639 you've had on the set or in the courtroom scenes 1:13:25.720 --> 1:13:26.160 or anything. 1:13:26.320 --> 1:13:30.840 Most of my memorable moments have to do with interactions 1:13:30.840 --> 1:13:34.360 with Muska and her just messing with me and I 1:13:34.400 --> 1:13:38.200 can let's see tell us. I'm told she's done this 1:13:38.200 --> 1:13:41.799 to other people where right after they say rolling sound speed, 1:13:42.200 --> 1:13:45.240 she'll look at you and go, let's have an acting contest. 1:13:46.240 --> 1:13:48.120 What are you even talking? I don't know what you're 1:13:48.120 --> 1:13:50.559 talking about. Time every time it's it's something else. And 1:13:50.760 --> 1:13:53.200 I came on the set and she said, Michael, are 1:13:53.240 --> 1:13:54.960 you signing up for my seminar. I'm like, what's semina? 1:13:55.400 --> 1:13:56.880 I have a new acting technique. Will you just say 1:13:56.880 --> 1:13:58.519 the line and then you just don't stop staring at 1:13:58.520 --> 1:14:00.960 the person like this? And then she would just stare 1:14:00.960 --> 1:14:02.600 at me, and she said it's especially good if you 1:14:02.640 --> 1:14:07.160 say things like I don't like pineapple and you just stare. 1:14:07.360 --> 1:14:10.439 I'm like, yes, I'll sign up for that. She said, 1:14:10.439 --> 1:14:12.559 you know, this was one of my favorite exchanges. She said, 1:14:12.560 --> 1:14:14.760 you know, Michael, if you were a good actor, you'd 1:14:14.760 --> 1:14:17.200 figure out a way to get air quotes into your speech. 1:14:18.360 --> 1:14:20.280 And I said, but I'm not, which is why I 1:14:20.280 --> 1:14:23.719 have to do shows like yours. And she's like, well done. 1:14:23.760 --> 1:14:26.040 She's like, well done, well done. And I saw her 1:14:26.000 --> 1:14:27.720 a few days later and she said, Michael, I did it. 1:14:27.760 --> 1:14:29.559 I'm like what. She goes, I put air quotes on 1:14:29.560 --> 1:14:31.519 the scene. I'm like, you didn't do that. Please tell 1:14:31.520 --> 1:14:32.880 me you didn't do that. She goes, yeah, I did it. 1:14:33.280 --> 1:14:36.040 So she's she's I mean, that's just one of a 1:14:36.080 --> 1:14:40.439 few of many, but it's always some craziness, you know. 1:14:40.800 --> 1:14:41.240 Yeah. 1:14:41.439 --> 1:14:43.479 I feel like if you're going to be like the 1:14:43.960 --> 1:14:46.479 number one on a show for twenty four seasons. 1:14:46.479 --> 1:14:48.439 You got to keep it fun, and it sounds like 1:14:48.479 --> 1:14:49.040 she does that. 1:14:49.640 --> 1:14:51.360 I meant, at the risk of sounding like I'm in 1:14:51.439 --> 1:14:53.040 a cult, I have to say that. You know, she 1:14:53.560 --> 1:14:55.559 jokes around like that, she keeps things light, and then 1:14:55.600 --> 1:14:57.280 when it comes time to do the work, after all 1:14:57.320 --> 1:15:00.200 these years, she is not phoning it in. She's doing 1:15:00.280 --> 1:15:05.400 the work. She's really and sorry if I'm gushy about this, 1:15:05.439 --> 1:15:07.559 but you know it's not. It's not true on every set, 1:15:07.680 --> 1:15:11.680 and I've take take a side less experienced actors and 1:15:11.840 --> 1:15:14.080 really make them comfortable and really say, so, what do 1:15:14.120 --> 1:15:16.320 you think about this scene? How should we work this? 1:15:16.479 --> 1:15:20.599 And really collaborate with people. You know, there was one 1:15:20.720 --> 1:15:23.840 one actor who it was her very first job, and 1:15:24.439 --> 1:15:26.400 the way that risk kind of just took care of 1:15:26.439 --> 1:15:28.200 her and didn't talk down to her, but sort of 1:15:28.200 --> 1:15:31.599 brought her along. You know, there's there's mentorship going on there, 1:15:31.640 --> 1:15:34.720 and yeah, it comes down from the top. Yeah, I 1:15:34.760 --> 1:15:37.519 mean most of my best memories of being on that 1:15:37.560 --> 1:15:39.800 show have to do with that. 1:15:40.320 --> 1:15:42.000 You know, Oh gotcha? 1:15:42.360 --> 1:15:45.080 Was there any singing we heard Raoul likes to maybe 1:15:45.200 --> 1:15:46.120 sing sometimes. 1:15:46.160 --> 1:15:48.320 Well, Rowl and I are both musical theater guys. 1:15:48.400 --> 1:15:50.439 Yes, I saw you're a big Broadway guy. 1:15:50.520 --> 1:15:54.000 Yeah, and so I think we uh, I don't think. 1:15:54.000 --> 1:15:55.760 I don't think we ever sang together, but I'm sure 1:15:55.760 --> 1:15:59.320 we compared notes. You know, we musical theater people get 1:15:59.360 --> 1:16:02.439 into conversations like who was who was the best? Mama Rose, 1:16:02.640 --> 1:16:05.639 you're completely wrong, and you know we'll break out knives 1:16:05.640 --> 1:16:08.120 and fisticuffs and everything. I mean, you know, we get 1:16:08.200 --> 1:16:11.479 very intense about it. But we became we became friendly. 1:16:11.520 --> 1:16:14.320 We hung out a couple of times, and I like 1:16:14.400 --> 1:16:17.320 him very much. I like him. He's a he's a 1:16:17.360 --> 1:16:21.200 good bloke, that one. I recently published a book called 1:16:21.240 --> 1:16:23.760 the Stage Actor's Handbook because I was shocked to find 1:16:23.760 --> 1:16:26.240 that there's no such thing that has to do with 1:16:26.320 --> 1:16:28.600 the traditions and the protocols and the way, you know, 1:16:28.640 --> 1:16:32.160 the way way professional actors are expected to behave when 1:16:32.160 --> 1:16:36.839 we're working professionally. And we collected quotes from legendary stage performers, 1:16:36.880 --> 1:16:41.040 and Raoul wrote the most gorgeous thing about the responsibility 1:16:41.080 --> 1:16:44.240 of bringing the show every single night. And you know, 1:16:44.320 --> 1:16:46.200 he was one of the people who contributed to the book. 1:16:48.000 --> 1:16:48.679 Really good guy. 1:16:48.880 --> 1:16:50.800 So it's a stage it's a handbook for people who 1:16:50.840 --> 1:16:52.519 are working on the stage or is it for like 1:16:52.560 --> 1:16:55.880 actors when they transition into television and movies and stuff. 1:16:55.640 --> 1:16:59.800 Or no, it's it's for for working and aspiring theater. 1:16:59.560 --> 1:17:00.960 Professional theater actors. 1:17:01.080 --> 1:17:02.679 I have a whole you know, there's a whole culture 1:17:02.720 --> 1:17:06.120 back there there there we have we have just traditions 1:17:06.120 --> 1:17:09.680 and protocols and expressions and superstitions and ways of doing things. 1:17:09.720 --> 1:17:12.519 And it's funny because like theater people, we take our 1:17:12.560 --> 1:17:15.400 superstitions seriously, whether we believe in them or not. Like 1:17:15.520 --> 1:17:17.280 you know, people will freak out if you do the 1:17:17.280 --> 1:17:19.400 wrong thing because it's like you're not supposed to be 1:17:19.400 --> 1:17:20.840 even if we don't believe in it, it's part of 1:17:20.880 --> 1:17:24.280 the fun of the tradition of the culture. So uh yeah, 1:17:24.320 --> 1:17:26.920 so that I just love that. He was like, yeah, 1:17:27.280 --> 1:17:28.360 I'll contribute some thoughts. 1:17:28.400 --> 1:17:28.920 Amazing. 1:17:29.520 --> 1:17:33.120 So the Stage Actor's Handbook it's called by Michael Kostrov. 1:17:33.200 --> 1:17:34.120 Okay, we're gonna. 1:17:33.880 --> 1:17:39.720 Make the I guess biggest mistake you've seen was there 1:17:39.720 --> 1:17:41.720 like a moment that inspired you or like, were you 1:17:41.760 --> 1:17:44.640 ever in a production and you saw something You're like, 1:17:44.680 --> 1:17:45.400 what the fuck? 1:17:45.720 --> 1:17:47.880 So many I mean, there's so many things. I mean, 1:17:47.920 --> 1:17:49.479 you know what happens is you learn most of the 1:17:49.479 --> 1:17:53.960 stuff by screwing up. You know, like once the director leaves, 1:17:53.960 --> 1:17:57.759 the stage manager is authorized to give you notes throughout 1:17:57.800 --> 1:18:01.000 the run of the performance. And I very grandly said, well, 1:18:01.040 --> 1:18:03.679 I only take notes from the director, and somebody pulled 1:18:03.680 --> 1:18:08.760 me assignment. No, no, that's not a thing. I think. 1:18:08.800 --> 1:18:11.680 One of my favorite traditions is something we call TTFN, 1:18:11.680 --> 1:18:13.840 which is take the fucking note. So when we're in 1:18:14.240 --> 1:18:17.280 a group note sessions, we're all tired from rehearsal and 1:18:17.320 --> 1:18:20.639 the director is giving us notes the amateur we'll get 1:18:20.640 --> 1:18:22.599 into a discussion about it with the director and said, 1:18:22.600 --> 1:18:24.040 but I thought I did that and did it, but 1:18:24.479 --> 1:18:26.479 do you mean and we're like, we all want to 1:18:26.520 --> 1:18:28.679 go home. Take the fucking notes. Yeah, thank you, write 1:18:28.680 --> 1:18:30.160 it down, talk to him about it later. 1:18:30.320 --> 1:18:32.360 But I do think it's it's awesome that you wrote 1:18:32.360 --> 1:18:35.000 that book, because I think that in a lot of ways, 1:18:35.280 --> 1:18:38.600 in not just theater, but in other creative pursuits or 1:18:38.760 --> 1:18:41.519 other industries, everyone's just like, just get out there, make 1:18:41.560 --> 1:18:43.680 your mistakes and learn, and like, no one wants to 1:18:43.720 --> 1:18:45.519 tell you the little secrets. No one wants to tell 1:18:45.560 --> 1:18:48.439 you the backstage, and it's not like these people are 1:18:48.439 --> 1:18:49.880 going to read your book and be like, no, I'm 1:18:49.880 --> 1:18:53.040 a perfectly professional actor. But like, you know, it's nice 1:18:53.040 --> 1:18:57.280 to share information. I find a lot of times people, Yeah, 1:18:57.320 --> 1:19:00.840 people just keep information to themselves because I don't know. 1:19:00.880 --> 1:19:03.160 They want everyone to let learn it. 1:19:03.320 --> 1:19:05.439 Because we do stand up comedy and so yeah, like 1:19:05.479 --> 1:19:07.479 you're supposed to move the MIC's stand right behind you, 1:19:08.000 --> 1:19:10.040 and so when you see someone with the MIC's stand 1:19:10.040 --> 1:19:13.360 out moved, you immediately know that they're like younger because 1:19:13.439 --> 1:19:15.280 it's distracting and you got to do it. It's something 1:19:15.360 --> 1:19:19.080 little and yeah you should tell people that, but kind 1:19:19.080 --> 1:19:19.559 to learn it. 1:19:19.880 --> 1:19:21.600 So there's all this little stuff. 1:19:21.240 --> 1:19:23.559 We have on set protocols. Also, I was working the 1:19:23.600 --> 1:19:26.040 other day and I saw a guest actress ask the 1:19:26.360 --> 1:19:27.960 one of the leads to take a picture with her. 1:19:28.000 --> 1:19:31.760 It's like, yeah, nope, amateur move. You don't do that. 1:19:31.920 --> 1:19:33.240 It's not cool, you know. 1:19:34.280 --> 1:19:37.760 But I social media now though, well, I feel Marishka does. 1:19:37.880 --> 1:19:39.480 I feel like a lot of the people. 1:19:39.439 --> 1:19:42.080 Think probably does. She's very gracious about it. But you know, 1:19:42.200 --> 1:19:45.960 my feeling as a guest actor is this, I want 1:19:46.040 --> 1:19:50.800 to help protect the bubble, meaning meaning the leads are 1:19:50.840 --> 1:19:52.320 at work. They don't want to have to be on 1:19:52.400 --> 1:19:56.160 celebrity duty. You know, they don't want to deal with 1:19:56.200 --> 1:19:57.719 you being like, oh my god, it's such an honor 1:19:57.760 --> 1:20:00.720 to meet you. It's like, you know, I like when 1:20:00.720 --> 1:20:03.479 I get recognized, it's really nice. I don't mind, you know, 1:20:03.720 --> 1:20:05.760 in the real world, but if I'm at work, I 1:20:05.760 --> 1:20:08.479 don't want somebody gushy, and you know, I want to 1:20:08.520 --> 1:20:11.240 just do the work. The biggest celebrities I've ever met 1:20:11.360 --> 1:20:13.720 just want to roll up their sleeves and do the work. 1:20:13.760 --> 1:20:15.880 When they're at work. They know that if they go 1:20:15.920 --> 1:20:18.080 out in public, they're going to be dealing with people 1:20:18.160 --> 1:20:19.840 being nervous and wanting to meet them and wanting to 1:20:19.840 --> 1:20:21.200 take a picture. But I feel like I want to 1:20:21.200 --> 1:20:24.479 protect their work environment. That's part of my approach to that. 1:20:24.720 --> 1:20:27.920 But yeah, but also, you know, I'm big into rules 1:20:27.920 --> 1:20:31.000 and traditions and I love that stuff, you know, totally. 1:20:31.400 --> 1:20:33.720 Yeah, because we've also talked to a lot of childs 1:20:33.800 --> 1:20:35.320 after there are people who did it when they were 1:20:35.439 --> 1:20:39.120 kids and their parents want to meet Marishka. So like 1:20:39.200 --> 1:20:43.880 the dads are like, we got to meet Marsha. 1:20:43.680 --> 1:20:47.160 Well, you were in the producers And what what are 1:20:47.200 --> 1:20:48.639 your favorite Broadway shows? 1:20:49.040 --> 1:20:51.200 Oh my god, it's so hard to answer that there, 1:20:51.280 --> 1:20:51.519 I know. 1:20:51.520 --> 1:20:53.639 That's so crazy. It's like, what's your favorite comedian? 1:20:53.720 --> 1:20:56.240 I also we also like to ask, like, what role 1:20:56.280 --> 1:20:57.639 are you so yeah to do? 1:20:58.000 --> 1:21:00.439 Dream role Broadway? 1:21:00.720 --> 1:21:03.720 I mean, the top of the list is Sweeney Todd. 1:21:04.520 --> 1:21:07.479 I think that's one of the best musicals ever. I 1:21:07.640 --> 1:21:10.320 love I love the obscure ones that people don't know 1:21:10.360 --> 1:21:12.799 about that are great. There's a great musical called Triumph 1:21:12.880 --> 1:21:16.280 of Love. That's one of my favorites. I love Evita. 1:21:16.439 --> 1:21:19.360 I love I mean different ones for different reasons. You know. 1:21:19.400 --> 1:21:21.639 Some of them are just just fun and silly. 1:21:23.160 --> 1:21:26.280 My husband loves the musical Assassins. Do you know that one? 1:21:26.439 --> 1:21:28.000 I don't know it as well as I should because 1:21:28.040 --> 1:21:29.320 I love Stephen Sondheim. 1:21:29.640 --> 1:21:31.840 He loves Assassins. Oh my god. 1:21:32.160 --> 1:21:35.240 I love Pacific Overtores, which nobody really talks about much, 1:21:35.400 --> 1:21:38.519 you know, all Asian casts written by Sondheim. It's brilliant. 1:21:38.840 --> 1:21:42.800 So anyway, you know, I'm nerding out here, but dream rolls. 1:21:42.800 --> 1:21:45.599 I you know. I always say that what I love 1:21:45.640 --> 1:21:48.200 best about my career is the variety. So the fact 1:21:48.200 --> 1:21:51.200 that I get to keep doing different things is it's 1:21:51.240 --> 1:21:53.559 more prominent than any particular dream role. I will say 1:21:53.560 --> 1:21:55.920 that I did two of the ones that were on 1:21:55.960 --> 1:21:58.559 my list a couple of years back. I finally did 1:21:58.720 --> 1:22:02.960 Mushnik in Little chop Hers and I did Edna in 1:22:02.960 --> 1:22:07.040 in Hairspray, and those yeah, I loved. I loved doing 1:22:07.080 --> 1:22:08.120 both of those. That were great. 1:22:08.439 --> 1:22:10.960 I would have loved to see that. Wow, that's fair. 1:22:11.000 --> 1:22:13.479 It was really it was really really pretty cool. I mean, 1:22:13.520 --> 1:22:16.040 you know, once you get past yeah, man in Address 1:22:16.080 --> 1:22:17.720 is always going to be funny, but there's also some 1:22:17.760 --> 1:22:20.719 deep stuff in there, you know, in Hairspray, stuff about race, 1:22:21.000 --> 1:22:23.400 stuff about body image. It's a it's a really good 1:22:23.560 --> 1:22:24.080 good show. 1:22:24.240 --> 1:22:25.439 So yeah, for sure. 1:22:25.760 --> 1:22:28.400 Well, and you mentioned in Law and Order people get 1:22:28.400 --> 1:22:30.160 to come back all the time, and we do love 1:22:30.200 --> 1:22:32.840 Evan Brawn evil da Would you ever want to come 1:22:32.880 --> 1:22:34.840 back as like a killer? 1:22:36.720 --> 1:22:40.439 Oh? Interesting? I think if I were, If I could 1:22:40.439 --> 1:22:42.760 come back on Law and Order on SVU as a 1:22:42.760 --> 1:22:46.360 different character, I'd want to be like the kindest, most 1:22:46.479 --> 1:22:50.200 lovely person ever. Because it's so rare that I get 1:22:50.200 --> 1:22:53.280 to play anyone with a soul, Because you know, it's 1:22:53.280 --> 1:22:56.240 not just law and order. I mostly play these ice 1:22:56.439 --> 1:22:59.880 cold attorneys. That's like my bread and butter. So it's 1:23:00.120 --> 1:23:02.280 really cool when I get to do something different and 1:23:02.720 --> 1:23:04.760 people who know me laugh because I mean, I'm a 1:23:04.800 --> 1:23:05.360 puppy dog. 1:23:05.360 --> 1:23:06.880 I'm like, yeah, that's it. 1:23:07.040 --> 1:23:09.960 When we interviewed Delaney Williams, the same thing, we were like, 1:23:10.160 --> 1:23:13.200 your face comes on screen and people like get mad immediately, 1:23:13.600 --> 1:23:16.200 and he was the nicest man to talk to and 1:23:16.360 --> 1:23:18.640 such a sweetheart. And I'm sure that's true of like 1:23:18.680 --> 1:23:21.280 everybody that plays these kind of blindballs. 1:23:22.120 --> 1:23:24.360 I think so. And also like Mike, I'm a musical 1:23:24.400 --> 1:23:26.960 comedy guy, Like I'm the funny guy who sings a 1:23:26.960 --> 1:23:29.640 song and I'll see at the curtain call. But you know, so, 1:23:29.920 --> 1:23:31.559 it's one of the great things about being an actor 1:23:31.640 --> 1:23:33.599 is like you don't know where it's going to take you. 1:23:33.600 --> 1:23:36.160 You don't know how people are going to want to 1:23:36.200 --> 1:23:38.519 cast you. And I love that I get to put 1:23:38.520 --> 1:23:40.479 on this mask and people buy it, Like you know, 1:23:40.760 --> 1:23:42.519 wire fans will come up to me with a huge 1:23:42.520 --> 1:23:46.920 smile and say, I hate you so much. Oh yeah, 1:23:46.960 --> 1:23:49.559 you know it, which is great. It's honestly, no kidding. 1:23:49.560 --> 1:23:52.599 It's a compliment. You know, I'll tell you my favorite 1:23:53.160 --> 1:23:55.600 story about being recognized. 1:23:55.880 --> 1:23:56.360 Please. 1:23:56.520 --> 1:23:59.400 So I'm walking along, you know, my Upper West Side neighborhood, 1:24:00.160 --> 1:24:02.840 and this woman from con from Connad, you know, the 1:24:02.880 --> 1:24:03.599 power company. 1:24:04.120 --> 1:24:07.120 She says hey, I said hey. She goes, you're the 1:24:07.200 --> 1:24:09.880 lawyer from the wire. I said, yes, yes I am. 1:24:09.960 --> 1:24:12.840 And she goes, oh, wow, are you really a lawyer. 1:24:12.920 --> 1:24:15.360 I said no, no, just an actor. And she says, 1:24:15.600 --> 1:24:23.560 oh damn, I really need a lawyer. And that was 1:24:23.600 --> 1:24:24.680 the end of that conversation. 1:24:25.640 --> 1:24:28.120 She thought she really lucked into some free legal advice 1:24:28.160 --> 1:24:28.719 on the street. 1:24:29.800 --> 1:24:33.080 Wait and are you Are you always teaching acting classes? 1:24:34.320 --> 1:24:36.439 And is it independent or with a place? 1:24:36.840 --> 1:24:40.080 It's independent. I do two of them online and one 1:24:40.120 --> 1:24:43.679 of them in person in LA and it's a it's 1:24:43.720 --> 1:24:48.559 a it's a tight list, you know. It's it's not 1:24:48.560 --> 1:24:51.439 not snotty, but just just sort of like, yes, which 1:24:51.479 --> 1:24:55.080 we're professional actors, but I love doing it. It's it's 1:24:55.360 --> 1:24:57.280 it's I just love actors, you know, like it's a 1:24:57.320 --> 1:25:00.080 it's a joy to work with them. So it's you know, 1:25:00.160 --> 1:25:03.639 whether it's coaching, directing, teaching acting, all that stuff, it's 1:25:03.760 --> 1:25:07.360 just working with them honest. For you know it's it's 1:25:07.520 --> 1:25:09.640 I just really dig my tribe as I put it. 1:25:10.360 --> 1:25:12.719 Yeah, well, let me ask you this because I paid 1:25:12.760 --> 1:25:15.360 for coaching one time, and this just happened to me yesterday. 1:25:15.360 --> 1:25:18.240 Actually too, I paid for coaching one time and I 1:25:18.240 --> 1:25:20.599 did this whole session and then I go in and 1:25:20.680 --> 1:25:22.479 what they tell me in the audition is like the 1:25:22.520 --> 1:25:24.280 opposite of what this coach has told me. 1:25:24.400 --> 1:25:25.360 Like it's the opposite. 1:25:25.360 --> 1:25:27.040 They're like, you know, you want to play it this way, 1:25:27.040 --> 1:25:28.760 blah blah, and I'm like okay, and then you just 1:25:28.760 --> 1:25:31.240 have to like readjust on the fly to everything you 1:25:31.400 --> 1:25:34.280 just paid someone to help you work on. It's like 1:25:34.400 --> 1:25:37.639 so like yesterday I read an audition to my husband 1:25:37.680 --> 1:25:39.360 and he goes, well, this is Disney, so I think 1:25:39.360 --> 1:25:41.400 you got to kind of play it like like pretty 1:25:42.200 --> 1:25:45.200 like uh, you know, like over the top a little bit. 1:25:45.360 --> 1:25:46.760 And then I get on the audition and she goes, 1:25:46.840 --> 1:25:48.599 I know it's Disney, but it's like not over the top. 1:25:48.600 --> 1:25:49.240 It's very ground. 1:25:49.320 --> 1:25:50.960 And I was like, everybody I asked to help me 1:25:51.040 --> 1:25:52.040 tells me the wrong thing. 1:25:52.479 --> 1:25:55.120 Well, okay, so I'll say this. I don't think coaches 1:25:55.120 --> 1:25:56.799 should be tasked with being psychic. 1:25:57.320 --> 1:25:57.479 Right. 1:25:57.720 --> 1:25:59.680 What I try to do with the actor is is 1:26:00.160 --> 1:26:02.880 some detective work together. What do you think about this? 1:26:03.000 --> 1:26:04.280 Why do you think? You say this? What do you 1:26:04.280 --> 1:26:06.920 think is going on? And sort of unpack it together? 1:26:07.040 --> 1:26:09.599 There is and I've said I can't tell you how 1:26:09.600 --> 1:26:12.160 many times. Look, if this idea doesn't land with you, 1:26:12.200 --> 1:26:14.320 I want you to not do it. I want I 1:26:14.320 --> 1:26:15.639 want to hear back from you if you go, yeah, 1:26:15.640 --> 1:26:17.400 I don't see it that way, because you're the artist 1:26:17.439 --> 1:26:21.759 who's doing the work. But also it's it's perfectly possible. 1:26:21.800 --> 1:26:23.559 We've all had the experience that you get in there 1:26:23.600 --> 1:26:26.439 and they give you an adjustment. What what what actors 1:26:26.479 --> 1:26:28.200 are always afraid to do that they should do is 1:26:28.200 --> 1:26:30.280 say I love that. I'm going to step outside and 1:26:30.320 --> 1:26:32.040 work on this for a minute because it's very different, 1:26:32.200 --> 1:26:34.600 and I'll come back, you know, because we're all so 1:26:34.720 --> 1:26:35.920 scared and it's. 1:26:35.800 --> 1:26:37.640 Like I would never think I could do that. 1:26:37.720 --> 1:26:39.439 Who who wouldn't respect that? 1:26:40.200 --> 1:26:42.880 You know, well that's a power move. Wow, of course. 1:26:42.920 --> 1:26:45.040 And it's not you know, it's not snotty, it's not 1:26:45.120 --> 1:26:46.479 you know, but you know, and if you have a 1:26:46.520 --> 1:26:48.320 cast in director says no, just do it, it's like, 1:26:48.880 --> 1:26:51.439 you know, I'm going to step out because it's it's 1:26:51.479 --> 1:26:53.559 it's I want to really make sure that I hit 1:26:53.600 --> 1:26:56.080 what you asked me to do in a respectful, nice way. 1:26:56.080 --> 1:26:58.200 But we don't take up any space, you know, and 1:26:58.320 --> 1:27:01.000 I and I feel like that's there's that option. And 1:27:01.080 --> 1:27:04.840 also you know, god, you know, I teach a course 1:27:05.000 --> 1:27:07.400 called Audition Psycho one oh one that's about the psychology 1:27:07.400 --> 1:27:12.599 of auditioning because so much of this is psychological, like 1:27:12.600 --> 1:27:17.439 like a lot of this is the interpretation of, oh fuck, 1:27:17.720 --> 1:27:20.799 I've got this adjustment and it's a test. Now instead 1:27:20.800 --> 1:27:22.800 of going, oh, interesting, let me try that as an artist, 1:27:22.880 --> 1:27:24.680 that might be kind of cool. All right, let's see 1:27:24.680 --> 1:27:27.240 what we come up with. And it's really so much 1:27:27.240 --> 1:27:29.719 in the framing and how you interpret what has happened. 1:27:30.400 --> 1:27:34.080 You know, like some of us go, oh, it's a trick. 1:27:34.080 --> 1:27:35.560 They're trying to fuck with me. It's like none of 1:27:35.560 --> 1:27:38.080 that stuff is going on. It's all interpretation. So now 1:27:38.120 --> 1:27:39.719 when I get I think of it like a little 1:27:40.360 --> 1:27:43.639 collaboration acting class. If somebody's like I think it needs 1:27:43.640 --> 1:27:46.880 to be angry, and I'll go, huh okay, let me 1:27:47.040 --> 1:27:49.120 try that. Let's see where we go. With that as 1:27:49.120 --> 1:27:51.920 opposed to now I got to deliver, you know, And 1:27:51.960 --> 1:27:54.519 I think it's okay. I think if if you spent 1:27:54.600 --> 1:27:58.160 time working on the scene and landed on different conclusions, 1:27:58.479 --> 1:28:01.599 it's okay, you've got you still got the exploration under 1:28:01.640 --> 1:28:02.040 your belt. 1:28:03.320 --> 1:28:06.759 Yeah, but you got I'm sure throughout your experience. I 1:28:06.800 --> 1:28:10.520 hate mean casting directors. Oh yeah, there's like these incredible 1:28:10.520 --> 1:28:12.080 ones and I love them so much, and then there's 1:28:12.120 --> 1:28:14.519 somewhere I'm like, can you make me feel more like shit? 1:28:14.720 --> 1:28:18.439 Listen. I'm very big on the dignity of actors, and 1:28:18.800 --> 1:28:22.920 I believe in something I call gracious strength. This is 1:28:22.920 --> 1:28:24.439 what I came up with after working with a bunch 1:28:24.479 --> 1:28:26.280 of famous actors. I'm like, what is it about them? 1:28:26.479 --> 1:28:28.400 You wouldn't fuck with them? And also they're the nicest 1:28:28.400 --> 1:28:32.000 people in the world. Gracious strength, or my version of that, 1:28:32.040 --> 1:28:34.519 is what would Judy Dench do? So I feel like 1:28:34.520 --> 1:28:37.120 if Judy Dench had a really nasty casting director, she said, 1:28:37.120 --> 1:28:39.160 you know, I really don't let people speak to me 1:28:39.200 --> 1:28:41.000 this way. So I'm going to go. I'm going to go, 1:28:41.200 --> 1:28:43.040 and I'm going to wish you well with your casting, 1:28:43.080 --> 1:28:45.040 but I'm just not interested. Thank you. So much, and 1:28:45.439 --> 1:28:50.000 I feel like I have within me the option of 1:28:50.040 --> 1:28:51.680 doing that, of saying, you know, I think this is 1:28:52.160 --> 1:28:53.800 not going to work out. So I'm going to go 1:28:54.600 --> 1:28:56.519 because I don't need to have anybody speak to me 1:28:56.600 --> 1:28:58.400 that way, and I don't need to teach them not 1:28:58.400 --> 1:28:59.680 to speak to me that way, and I don't need 1:28:59.680 --> 1:29:03.120 to be in dignant. But I sure has held I listen. 1:29:03.920 --> 1:29:06.679 Like most actors, my self esteem is not so great. 1:29:06.760 --> 1:29:09.800 I don't need help taking it down. I really don't. 1:29:09.840 --> 1:29:15.479 I really don't. So I think what we're doing wrong 1:29:15.600 --> 1:29:19.960 is is tolerating that. Yeah, why do we think it's 1:29:19.960 --> 1:29:23.360 going to lead to getting a job or people respecting us? No, 1:29:23.520 --> 1:29:26.200 it doesn't. It's not like if I let you abuse me, 1:29:26.200 --> 1:29:28.960 you're going to cast me. No, I think they're more 1:29:29.080 --> 1:29:33.000 likely to think of you as a respectable contender if 1:29:33.040 --> 1:29:35.720 you say, yeah, you know, the tone is not not 1:29:35.880 --> 1:29:38.559 good for me. I'm going to need to go. You know. 1:29:38.800 --> 1:29:40.479 I'll be happy to take your notes, but I don't 1:29:40.479 --> 1:29:43.280 need the attitude. Yeah, Oh my god, what would happen? 1:29:43.880 --> 1:29:44.559 What would happen? 1:29:44.920 --> 1:29:48.719 I love that ww jd D. What would Judy Dench do? 1:29:48.960 --> 1:29:52.120 Try it? Try it? What would Judy Dench. Do I 1:29:52.200 --> 1:29:54.080 think I think she would be really nice about it? 1:29:54.160 --> 1:29:56.960 She says, I'm getting some hostility, but I'm interested in 1:29:57.040 --> 1:29:59.559 your note. What explained I me, I have to understand 1:29:59.560 --> 1:30:00.120 the note. 1:30:00.800 --> 1:30:03.080 You're like teaching power moves and acting. 1:30:03.479 --> 1:30:06.479 I know I had to because I come from such 1:30:06.479 --> 1:30:09.280 a damage, fucked up childhood. This has been like a 1:30:09.320 --> 1:30:12.519 lifetime of therapy. But it's like it's I have to 1:30:12.800 --> 1:30:15.120 protect all that stuff because otherwise I'd be like I'll 1:30:15.120 --> 1:30:17.920 be on you know, sleeping under my couch for a week, 1:30:18.200 --> 1:30:19.719 you know, drinking and crying. 1:30:20.040 --> 1:30:22.439 Well, do you have anything like coming up that you 1:30:22.479 --> 1:30:25.280 want our listeners to check out something that's coming out soon? 1:30:25.520 --> 1:30:27.040 Or I'm sure they're going to have you back on 1:30:27.200 --> 1:30:28.840 SVU soon they will. 1:30:28.960 --> 1:30:31.280 I mean, you know, I'm not much of a promoter. 1:30:31.439 --> 1:30:33.679 It's like people find me or they don't. But I mean, 1:30:34.240 --> 1:30:37.400 I just filmed an NCIS where I was not a lawyer. 1:30:37.479 --> 1:30:40.719 It was very exciting. I loved the role. I don't 1:30:40.760 --> 1:30:46.160 know when. It's on November thirteenth, eleventh, seventeenth, someplace in 1:30:46.200 --> 1:30:52.360 mid November, so that's on. You know, I'm big into 1:30:52.400 --> 1:30:54.840 my book right now, so if they're you know, aspiring 1:30:54.920 --> 1:30:58.760 or working professional stage actors out there. Yeah, the Stage 1:30:58.760 --> 1:31:01.519 Actor's Handbook. You can get it Drama Bookshop in New York. 1:31:01.560 --> 1:31:06.800 I love supporting the actual physical independent bookshops. Yes, I 1:31:06.800 --> 1:31:07.920 don't know, I got stuff. 1:31:08.040 --> 1:31:13.080 I got stuff, amazing, amazing, booked and blessed, as we. 1:31:13.040 --> 1:31:18.960 Say, yes, booked and blessed, obsessed. 1:31:19.520 --> 1:31:22.599 Yeah, he's cool like you are immediately like I'm getting 1:31:22.640 --> 1:31:24.240 on the list and going to take his actings. 1:31:25.640 --> 1:31:28.400 Yeah, it's just like, you know, we get to talk 1:31:28.400 --> 1:31:30.200 to a lot of people who love their work and 1:31:30.360 --> 1:31:34.240 it's a privilege. Yeah, and it's cool sen someone that 1:31:34.320 --> 1:31:36.120 you know likes to sing and wants to help other 1:31:36.200 --> 1:31:39.120 people and advice and cares for shit like I like it. 1:31:39.240 --> 1:31:40.360 Yes. Yeah. 1:31:40.400 --> 1:31:43.120 Theater traditions are funny. I've remember from high school it 1:31:43.160 --> 1:31:45.280 was just like so much, thank you, thank. 1:31:45.080 --> 1:31:48.600 You, yeah, thank you five. And I still do it 1:31:48.640 --> 1:31:49.000 all the. 1:31:48.960 --> 1:31:50.840 Time, and I wonder if people are like, shut up, 1:31:50.880 --> 1:31:53.920 you dumb bitch, but they really ingrained that well. 1:31:54.600 --> 1:31:56.800 The superstitions are so funny too, because you have so 1:31:56.840 --> 1:31:59.439 many superstitions as a Russian Jew, like I have never 1:31:59.479 --> 1:32:01.479 heard of like your superstitions and. 1:32:01.600 --> 1:32:07.559 I'm a very superstitious person, and I do, and I yeah, yeah, 1:32:07.600 --> 1:32:10.280 I'm in tune with that part of I was gonna 1:32:10.320 --> 1:32:11.120 say my universe. 1:32:11.240 --> 1:32:12.080 Yeah, but then I was like. 1:32:12.120 --> 1:32:15.200 Or psychosis, like we don't really know, we don't know 1:32:15.240 --> 1:32:17.640 exactly what it is. But you know, I've had like 1:32:17.720 --> 1:32:21.959 kind of a peeing problem m where I'm constantly being NonStop, 1:32:22.040 --> 1:32:25.480 like I can't stop being. I've really like been harnessing 1:32:25.600 --> 1:32:28.360 energy to stop that, and I've really been able to 1:32:28.439 --> 1:32:30.760 like not have to pee constantly. 1:32:31.360 --> 1:32:32.320 And it's cool. 1:32:32.640 --> 1:32:35.240 Yeah, now I have to pee now immediately now, as 1:32:35.240 --> 1:32:38.000 soon as you say it. Yeah, but on the fly, 1:32:38.160 --> 1:32:40.479 Like I usually I pee six to ten times for 1:32:40.560 --> 1:32:43.320 across country flight and this time only twice. And I 1:32:43.320 --> 1:32:46.040 was like, look at me, Oh my god. Did I 1:32:46.040 --> 1:32:47.720 ever tell you I flew to Hong Kong once and 1:32:47.800 --> 1:32:50.960 never peene. Yeah, it's kind of rude and bragging at 1:32:50.960 --> 1:32:53.360 this point. I'm telling you my struggles that like me 1:32:53.439 --> 1:32:55.920 having a pe has ruined in my life. I think 1:32:56.000 --> 1:33:00.560 I'm dehydrated. Also, I took a sleep pills. I was 1:33:00.600 --> 1:33:02.240 asleep for like ten of those hours. 1:33:02.640 --> 1:33:03.880 Anyway, what did we learn? 1:33:03.920 --> 1:33:07.160 Don't be a fucking hoarder. Don't put dead bodies in 1:33:07.200 --> 1:33:11.120 the fridge. You know, I don't know what to tell you. 1:33:11.240 --> 1:33:13.360 I don't know. The postmortem on this episode is a 1:33:13.360 --> 1:33:15.479 little bit weird. I have a good one. 1:33:15.640 --> 1:33:18.320 Get over grudges, but yeah, I'm in a fight that 1:33:18.360 --> 1:33:18.960 will never end. 1:33:19.040 --> 1:33:21.719 But get don't be in grudges with your siblings too, 1:33:21.880 --> 1:33:25.400 Like Kathy and Kyle. We are watching everything that's going 1:33:25.439 --> 1:33:27.200 on with Kathy Hilton and Kyle. 1:33:27.680 --> 1:33:31.320 H Richards, the way they punish each other with not 1:33:31.360 --> 1:33:34.000 being able to go to each other's kids' weddings, it 1:33:34.120 --> 1:33:38.920 seems so fucked up. Yeah, yeah, I don't like, I 1:33:38.960 --> 1:33:40.920 don't think Kyle did anything that bad. 1:33:41.240 --> 1:33:44.920 And it's like, but here's the thing. I know, we're 1:33:44.920 --> 1:33:47.120 going into a full tangent about the Housewives right now. 1:33:47.120 --> 1:33:49.960 Everybody give us two minutes. Everything the Beverly Hills is 1:33:50.000 --> 1:33:52.400 so hidden. I don't think we like they're not open 1:33:52.520 --> 1:33:54.720 like a lot of other seasons, Like we don't know 1:33:54.720 --> 1:33:57.519 what some of this real shit is. Like maybe Kathy's 1:33:57.520 --> 1:34:00.200 got receipts on Kyle, and I bet fucking kat Kyle 1:34:00.280 --> 1:34:02.880 has receipts on Kathy. Like I think they've both done 1:34:02.880 --> 1:34:04.080 a lot of shit. But I think at the end 1:34:04.120 --> 1:34:05.519 of the day, you got to be like, this is 1:34:05.560 --> 1:34:08.280 my sister. We're going to the weddings, you know what 1:34:08.320 --> 1:34:10.960 I mean, Like I've gotten The only people in my 1:34:10.960 --> 1:34:13.040 life I've ever physically fought are my siblings. The only 1:34:13.040 --> 1:34:16.240 people I ever really scream at are my siblings or Jared. 1:34:16.320 --> 1:34:19.800 You know, like, like I just you got to make 1:34:19.880 --> 1:34:21.920 up with your siblings. They're like, you're you know, it's 1:34:22.000 --> 1:34:24.760 just like your family. Unless listen, if you have like 1:34:24.800 --> 1:34:27.800 a toxic sibling that you've cut out. Okay, that's a 1:34:27.800 --> 1:34:31.960 different story, but like general, fighting with your sibs, it's 1:34:31.960 --> 1:34:33.799 like you can't miss out on big family. 1:34:35.080 --> 1:34:36.439 And no one was perfect. 1:34:36.479 --> 1:34:40.360 But I don't think it's like they're just so mad 1:34:40.400 --> 1:34:41.719 that Kyle puts it out there. 1:34:42.560 --> 1:34:44.519 I guess, yes, I don't know. 1:34:44.960 --> 1:34:48.320 Well, these two brothers, it feels like, I mean, in 1:34:48.360 --> 1:34:51.680 the real life story, they protected each other till the end, 1:34:51.680 --> 1:34:53.880 they were like thick as thieves. In this one, I 1:34:53.880 --> 1:34:56.600 think they wanted to let these two classic actors have 1:34:56.680 --> 1:34:59.479 a little bit of you know, play off each other 1:34:59.479 --> 1:35:01.599 a little bit. So instead of them loving each other, 1:35:01.640 --> 1:35:03.439 they hated each other. It was like definitely a good 1:35:03.439 --> 1:35:07.120 TV choice but they also had this deep seated secret 1:35:07.160 --> 1:35:09.400 that they never shared with each other, and like, you know, 1:35:09.560 --> 1:35:11.920 I think that they've lost a lot of time with 1:35:11.960 --> 1:35:12.360 each other. 1:35:14.000 --> 1:35:14.320 Yeah. 1:35:14.400 --> 1:35:16.599 I was just gonna say, and go out for walks, 1:35:16.760 --> 1:35:18.519 you know what I mean. We can always be reminded 1:35:18.640 --> 1:35:19.720 you got to take a walk, but. 1:35:19.800 --> 1:35:20.599 You can go out the walk. 1:35:21.360 --> 1:35:23.080 It's okay to go out for walks and also not 1:35:23.120 --> 1:35:25.960 bring home like broken baby carriages and like you know, 1:35:26.640 --> 1:35:29.120 whatever old piano you find on the street, Like you 1:35:29.160 --> 1:35:33.120 don't have to bring that stuff home. But yeah, hoarding 1:35:33.280 --> 1:35:38.719 is hoarding is real. This episode great set design. Yeah, 1:35:38.720 --> 1:35:42.200 and obviously it feels like the real victim of the 1:35:42.240 --> 1:35:45.920 episode is in the very beginning with the character known 1:35:45.960 --> 1:35:50.479 as Bobby getting murdered, because the rest of it feels 1:35:50.479 --> 1:35:52.599 like the rest of the episode feels like it's all 1:35:52.680 --> 1:35:55.360 kind of victimless, like the mom died and then they 1:35:55.439 --> 1:35:56.400 just like left her in their head. 1:35:56.400 --> 1:35:58.640 I mean, like, yes, they they put her, they euthanize 1:35:58.680 --> 1:36:01.679 their mind essentially. Yeah, yeah, I think there was a willow. 1:36:01.760 --> 1:36:04.439 I think, yeah, they euthanized her, but like they like 1:36:04.520 --> 1:36:06.599 the doctor was like she wouldn't have had much longer. 1:36:06.640 --> 1:36:08.599 She was probably in a ton of pain, could barely breathe. 1:36:08.640 --> 1:36:10.040 I think they did what they thought was best for 1:36:10.080 --> 1:36:12.200 their mom and then like leaving her in the freezer, 1:36:12.400 --> 1:36:18.880 you know, eccentric, but of course also always teaching our 1:36:18.960 --> 1:36:22.240 kids to say no secrets with adults and shit like that, 1:36:22.280 --> 1:36:24.040 like what would happen to them two men as when 1:36:24.040 --> 1:36:27.840 they were younger? You know, no secrets, tell people, Tell 1:36:27.880 --> 1:36:28.320 your brother. 1:36:28.479 --> 1:36:29.240 Jeez, Louise. 1:36:29.800 --> 1:36:32.040 Anyway, I'll just segue into what would Sister Peg do? 1:36:32.280 --> 1:36:36.400 Our weekly segment where we direct you to an organization, 1:36:36.479 --> 1:36:38.560 a book, an article, something to help you learn a 1:36:38.600 --> 1:36:41.480 little bit more about what we discussed on today's episode, 1:36:41.520 --> 1:36:45.640 and I wanted to point you to it's kind of 1:36:45.640 --> 1:36:47.400 like it. It's not really an article, but it's like 1:36:47.439 --> 1:36:52.439 a section of the Glad website that's glad as g 1:36:52.680 --> 1:36:55.120 l A A d dot org and they have like 1:36:55.160 --> 1:36:57.240 a there's a link that we will obviously put in 1:36:57.280 --> 1:37:00.559 our show notes and on our Instagram that's just entitled 1:37:00.600 --> 1:37:05.400 the Angie Zapota Murder Colon Violence Against Transgender People Resource Kit, 1:37:05.479 --> 1:37:07.840 and it covers a lot of the timeline of Angie's murder, 1:37:07.880 --> 1:37:10.439 as well as facts and figures on the murders of 1:37:10.520 --> 1:37:13.280 transgendered people across the country, which has truly become an 1:37:13.280 --> 1:37:16.680 epidemic and needs to be you know, ended as soon 1:37:16.720 --> 1:37:19.719 as possible, and it helps. It also helps you decipher 1:37:20.040 --> 1:37:22.120 hate crime laws based on the state you live in, 1:37:22.320 --> 1:37:25.040 and you can check that out in our show notes 1:37:25.120 --> 1:37:27.800 and always all of our what would sister peg dos 1:37:27.880 --> 1:37:32.120 are chronicled in our Instagram story called wwspd. 1:37:33.280 --> 1:37:36.479 How not a transition from the sadness. But you know, 1:37:36.720 --> 1:37:39.840 on we go to another episode and next week we'll 1:37:39.840 --> 1:37:44.320 be doing Paternity season nine, episode nine. Watch with us. Also, 1:37:44.360 --> 1:37:46.080 did you know that the new season's not on Hulu? 1:37:46.160 --> 1:37:50.679 It's only on Peacock now ooh yeah, season twenty four. 1:37:50.960 --> 1:37:55.560 He's only at Peacock know Hulu? And interesting? 1:37:56.200 --> 1:38:00.000 Thank god I stole my friends my friend Julia's Peacock's 1:38:00.320 --> 1:38:00.760 I'm there. 1:38:00.800 --> 1:38:02.320 But yeah, you also had to. 1:38:02.400 --> 1:38:04.639 I watched the first two of the crossover on Hulu 1:38:04.720 --> 1:38:06.719 and then had to go watch the other one on Peacock, 1:38:06.760 --> 1:38:10.000 even though I didn't really finish it. Thanks for listening, guys, 1:38:10.160 --> 1:38:12.040 get tickets for the tour at That's messed Up live 1:38:12.080 --> 1:38:30.160 dot com. We love you, Bye bye. 1:38:24.320 --> 1:38:26.519 That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production. 1:38:27.000 --> 1:38:29.080 If you have compliments you'd like to give us or 1:38:29.160 --> 1:38:31.400 episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email 1:38:31.400 --> 1:38:34.120 it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. 1:38:34.400 --> 1:38:37.599 Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod 1:38:37.800 --> 1:38:40.680 and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us 1:38:40.720 --> 1:38:42.599 personally at Kara Klank and. 1:38:42.720 --> 1:38:43.639 At glitter Cheese. 1:38:44.120 --> 1:38:46.800 As always, please see our show notes for sources and 1:38:46.840 --> 1:38:47.519 more information. 1:38:48.120 --> 1:38:50.120 Thank you so much to our producer KC. 1:38:50.240 --> 1:38:53.439 O'Brien, and to our mixer John Bradley and our guest 1:38:53.439 --> 1:38:56.760 booker Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme 1:38:56.880 --> 1:38:59.240 song and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. 1:38:59.600 --> 1:39:00.280 Thank you to. 1:39:00.240 --> 1:39:04.360 Our executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and 1:39:04.479 --> 1:39:06.080 everybody at Exactly Right Media. 1:39:07.640 --> 1:39:08.479 Dun Dunn