1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 2: Hello and Welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy B. Wilson 4 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 2: and I'm Holly Frye. Back in twenty twenty, we did 5 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,959 Speaker 2: a two part episode on co Intel pro, which was 6 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 2: a series of FBI counterintelligence programs that started out ostensibly 7 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 2: focused on communism, but they went on to target an 8 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 2: array of primarily left wing organizations and movements in the 9 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 2: United States. One of my really favorite parts of working 10 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 2: on that was getting to how those programs came to 11 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:48,520 Speaker 2: an end. The FBI still does counterintelligence, but these formerly 12 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 2: defined co intel pros ended after a group of regular 13 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 2: people pulled off a heist at the FBI office in Media, Pennsylvania, 14 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 2: and then they sent what they found to news agencies. 15 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,839 Speaker 2: This group of regular people called themselves the Citizens Commission 16 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 2: to Investigate the FBI, and at the very end of 17 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 2: those episodes we mentioned that some of them went on 18 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 2: to become part of a group called the Camden twenty eight, 19 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 2: who had raided a draft office in Camden, New Jersey 20 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy one. So I have wanted to do 21 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 2: a Camden twenty eight episode for the last five years, 22 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 2: like it's been on the list for a long time. 23 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 2: As I finally got into working on this, though, I 24 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 2: realized that just focusing on the Camden twenty eight really 25 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,759 Speaker 2: wouldn't convey that this was not just one raid on 26 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 2: one draft board office. It was part of a whole 27 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 2: anti war movement that was largely grounded in Catholic religious convictions. 28 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 2: And this movement spanned almost four years. So this turned 29 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 2: into a two part episode. Today we are going to 30 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 2: have some very basic context of the Vietnam War and 31 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 2: why the US was involved in the first place. Due 32 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 2: to the progression of time, we have reached a point 33 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 2: where I think the majority of our listeners did not 34 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 2: live through this or grow up in the immediate aftermath 35 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 2: of it. So if you did and you're like, why 36 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,519 Speaker 2: are you explaining this to me? I think a lot 37 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 2: of people are not as steeped in some of this 38 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 2: as like Holly and I. 39 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: Were in our youths. 40 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, So we're going to talk about why the US 41 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 2: was involved in the first place, and we're going to 42 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: talk about a couple of the earliest raids on draft 43 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 2: boards in this part of the two parter. Then on 44 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 2: Wednesday we will talk about the raids that happened later 45 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 2: in this movement and the Camden twenty eight specifically. 46 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: So, the Vietnam War was a long, complicated conflict that 47 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: is known in vs. Vietnam as the American War or 48 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: the Resistance War against America. It was part of a 49 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: wider pattern of conflict and war in Southeast Asia, involving 50 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: multiple other nations beyond just the US and Vietnam. It 51 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: went on for nearly twenty years. So we're not going 52 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: to try to give a detailed account of the entire thing, 53 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: or even to try to cover all the most notable moments. 54 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: As Tracy just said, we're giving this overview for context. 55 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,239 Speaker 2: Yeah. I kept being like, should I mention this too? 56 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 2: Should I mention this too? And it was there are 57 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 2: too many things, And then it was a twelve episode 58 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: arc and then our whole podcast is just about Vietnam, 59 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: which those already exist, those already exist, there's plenty available. 60 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 2: Over the course of its history, Vietnam has been an 61 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 2: independent nation at some points and it has been colonized 62 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 2: at others. And the period that's most relevant to today's 63 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 2: episode starts with France colonizing Va Vietnam and other parts 64 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 2: of Southeast Asia during the nineteenth century. Then, during World 65 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 2: War II, Japan negotiated with v Shi France to occupy Vietnam. 66 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 2: Vietnam remained under French administration until almost the very end 67 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 2: of the war, and then Japan took control, imprisoned the 68 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 2: French officials, and then killed the ones who refused to comply. 69 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: The events of World War II contributed to a growing 70 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: independence movement in Vietnam. One part of this movement was 71 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: the League for the Independence of Vietnam, also known as 72 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: the Vietmen, founded by Ho Chi Minh. The Vietmen had 73 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: been established in northern Vietnam, not far from the border 74 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: with China, and it had a primarily Communist leadership. As 75 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: World War. 76 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 2: II came to an end, the Vietmen launched an uprising 77 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 2: to try to secure independence for Vietnam. Ho Chi Minh 78 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 2: declared Vietnam to be an independent republic with its capital 79 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 2: at Hanoi in s September of nineteen forty five. Not 80 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 2: long after that, Vietnamese Emperor Bao Dai abdicated and declared 81 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 2: his allegiance to the newly established Democratic Republic of Vietnam. 82 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: But with the end of World War II, France wanted 83 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: to regain control of its colonial possession, and with the 84 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 1: support of its allies, it tried to do just that. 85 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: These allies included the US, although a lot wasn't publicly 86 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: known about the US involvement until much later. This led 87 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 1: to the First Indochina War, also called the French Indochina War, 88 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: which stretched from nineteen forty six to nineteen fifty four. 89 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: This war formally ended with the Geneva Convention of nineteen 90 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: fifty four, which also dealt with some ongoing issues from 91 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: the Korean War that had ended with an armistice in 92 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three. 93 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 2: The accords that were signed at this convention created a 94 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 2: ceasefire line at the Seventeenth Peril, with the Democratic Republic 95 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 2: of Vietnam on one side and the State of Vietnam 96 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: also called the Republic of Vietnam without the Democratic part 97 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 2: on the other. These are more generally referred to as 98 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 2: North and South Vietnam. The accords also called for the 99 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 2: establishment of a demilitarized zone along that line and a 100 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 2: three hundred day period for troops to be withdrawn to 101 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 2: their respective sides of the line. This division of Vietnam 102 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 2: was also supposed to be temporary, with the future of 103 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 2: a unified Vietnam to be decided through a fair and 104 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 2: free election. 105 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 1: From the United States point of view, the idea that 106 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: this election could result in a unified communist Vietnam was 107 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 1: a major problem. This was during the Cold War between 108 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: the United States and the USSR, which was also communist. 109 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 1: In the US, there was a lot of anxiety around 110 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 1: the idea of Vietnam unifying itself as a communist nation 111 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: and forming an alliance with the USSR or with its 112 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: neighbor China, which had become a communist nation in nineteen 113 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: forty nine. This was also connected to the nuclear arms 114 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: race between the US and the USSR, and worries around 115 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: which nations would have access to nuclear weapons and where 116 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: the USSR would be able to station them. And this 117 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: wasn't just about Vietnam. A lot of US foreign policy 118 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: at this point rested on the Domino theory, which is 119 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: the idea that if one nation quote fell to communism, 120 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: its neighbors would inevitably follow. The US was trying to 121 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: stop communist governments from forming or existing in other parts 122 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: of the world as well. This included the CIA, orchestrating 123 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: a coup to overthrow the democratically elected government of Guatemala 124 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty four. We covered that as a two 125 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: parter in September twenty nineteen. We have talked about a 126 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: number of times. 127 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 2: That the United States is willing to prop up a 128 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 2: dictator if that meant a nation not becoming communist. With 129 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 2: all of this in mind, the United States did not 130 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 2: pledge to follow the agreements that had been signed at 131 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 2: the Geneva Convention, and neither did the State of Vietnam, 132 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 2: which then also did not work with the North on 133 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 2: holding that election that was supposed to happen. Initially, the 134 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 2: VIETMM was not interested in trying to start another war 135 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 2: over this, but that started to change in the second 136 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 2: half of the nineteen fifties. Eventually, the National Liberation Front 137 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 2: and its military arm, the viet Cong, started trying to 138 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 2: take control of South Vietnam. It was getting support from 139 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 2: Communists living in South Vietnam as well as from non communists. 140 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 2: Some saw this as a chance to get rid of 141 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 2: corruption in the South Vietnamese government. Others sought this so 142 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 2: out Vietnamese government was out of touch with its own 143 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 2: people and that the communist government would be better. The 144 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 2: government of South Vietnam was also predominantly Catholic, and the 145 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 2: largely Buddhist population was facing religious oppression and persecution. Yeah, 146 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 2: there were definitely people who did not want the whole 147 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 2: of Vietnam, like people living in Vietnam who did not 148 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 2: want the whole of Vietnam to become Communist and wanted 149 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 2: international support in this. But there's also a very growing 150 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 2: amount of support for the Communist As all this was happening, 151 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 2: the North Vietnamese also started building a supply route known 152 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 2: as the Ho Chi Minh Trail to support its efforts 153 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 2: in the South. Those efforts included a lot of guerrilla 154 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 2: tactics that the South Vietnamese, who had largely been trained 155 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 2: by Americans and other Westerners, weren't really quite prepared for. 156 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 2: By the start of the nineteen sixties, it was obvious 157 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 2: to the United States that South Vietnam could not win 158 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 2: and this conflict without more help. At first, most people 159 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 2: in the United States were generally supportive of US military 160 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 2: action in Vietnam. The fear of communism in its expansion, 161 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 2: the Cold War, and nuclear proliferation were all huge political issues. 162 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 2: This was true even though the US military had already 163 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 2: been through a three year war in Korea, which had 164 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 2: some similarities to what was happening in Vietnam, and at first, 165 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 2: US support to Vietnam was mostly through things like equipment 166 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,199 Speaker 2: and training, without a lot of US personnel station there, 167 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 2: so most people didn't really have a personal or family 168 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 2: connection to what was happening. But that changed in the 169 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 2: nineteen sixties. The US started ramping up as support of 170 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 2: South Vietnam by deploying helicopters and Green berets, and by 171 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty two, about nine thousand American troops had been 172 00:10:55,080 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 2: sent overseas. The US also started using napalm and Dell 173 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 2: like agent orange to destroy the vegetation that the North 174 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 2: Vietnamese were using for cover, and to also deprive them 175 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 2: of food. In January of nineteen sixty five, there was 176 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 2: an incident in the Gulf of Tonkin. The exact details 177 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 2: of this incident still are not clear today, but two 178 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,839 Speaker 2: US destroyers reported that they had been fired upon by 179 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 2: North Vietnamese patrol boats. Not long after this incident, Congress 180 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 2: passed a joint resolution known as the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, 181 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 2: which set in part quote that the Congress approves and 182 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 2: supports the determination of the President, as Commander in Chief, 183 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 2: to take all necessary measures to repel any armed attack 184 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 2: against the forces of the United States and to prevent 185 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 2: further aggression. The president at this point was Lyndon B. Johnson, 186 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 2: and this basically allowed him to essentially wage war in 187 00:11:55,679 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 2: Vietnam without a formal declaration of war on Vietnam Congress. 188 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 2: Bombing campaigns and larger troop deployments started not long after this. 189 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 2: Every time the United States has been involved in a war, 190 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 2: there have been people opposed to it, whether that opposition 191 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:18,199 Speaker 2: was on political or ideological grounds relating to that specific conflict, 192 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 2: or was rooted in an opposition to war more generally. 193 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 2: But as the United States military involvement in Vietnam grew, 194 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 2: the anti war movement did as well, becoming the largest 195 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 2: movement against a foreign war in US history, and this 196 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 2: became an incredibly divisive, deeply polarizing social and political issue. 197 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 2: We'll talk more about it after a sponsor break. As 198 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,559 Speaker 2: we said before the break, in general, most Americans supported 199 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 2: the United States military efforts in Vietnam at the start 200 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 2: of its involvement in this conflict. At least what was 201 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 2: publicly known as the involvement in the conflict, largely because 202 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 2: of things like opposition to communism and the fact that 203 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:15,599 Speaker 2: at first this support did not involve large scale troop deployments, 204 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 2: but support for the war started to wane as that changed. 205 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 2: Part of this was connected to the news coverage. As 206 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 2: the US military presence grew in Vietnam, so did the 207 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 2: number of journalists there. There were roughly six hundred accredited 208 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 2: journalists in Vietnam at the height of the war in 209 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight, and some of them were reporting from 210 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 2: combat zones. This was also really the first war that 211 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 2: the US had fought during the television era. Televisions did 212 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 2: exist before this, long before this, and there had been 213 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 2: newsreels and other visual news sources during earlier wars as well, 214 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,559 Speaker 2: but it was only after the Korean War that there 215 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 2: were televisions in more than half of American homes, and 216 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 2: some of the images and stories that were coming out 217 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 2: of Vietnam and being broadcast on the news in people's 218 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 2: living rooms were truly horrifying. On top of all that, 219 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 2: during his nineteen sixty four presidential campaign, Lyndon B. Johnson 220 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 2: had said he wouldn't be expanding the US presence in Vietnam, 221 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 2: but after an attack on a US air base not 222 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 2: long after his second inauguration, Johnson ordered a bombing campaign 223 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 2: known as Operation Rolling Thunder, followed by the deployment of 224 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 2: more ground troops. By the end of the year, there 225 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 2: were roughly one hundred eighty thousand US military personnel in Vietnam, 226 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 2: and by nineteen sixty eight that number had risen to 227 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:50,119 Speaker 2: well over half a million. As the number of personnel increased, 228 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 2: sowed tod the number of casualties, and soon about three 229 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 2: hundred Americans were dying in Vietnam every week. This was 230 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 2: a fraction of the number of TI civilian deaths in Vietnam, 231 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 2: which people in the US were also seeing on the news. 232 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 2: Opposition to the war grew in parallel with this increase 233 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 2: in troop deployments. We talked about the teachings that were 234 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 2: part of this movement in our Saturday Classic from this 235 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 2: past February twenty second. There were also marches and sit 236 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 2: ins and demonstrations against companies like Dow Chemical, which was 237 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 2: the primary producer of Nepal. Some of the public opposition 238 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 2: to the war was tied to the growing hippie movement 239 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 2: and counterculture movements, and it was associated with things like music, 240 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 2: drug use, and free love. Other demonstrations against the war 241 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 2: were visceral and intentionally disturbing, including multiple people who set 242 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 2: themselves on fire, mirroring the acts of Buddhist monks in 243 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 2: Vietnam who had emilated themselves in protest in nineteen sixty seven. 244 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 2: Some of the anti war marches and demonstrations in the 245 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 2: US were enormous. One of the organizations that formed to 246 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 2: resist the war effort was the National Mobilization Committee to 247 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 2: End the War in Vietnam aka the MOB, which organized 248 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 2: demonstrations and marches in multiple US cities. On April fifteenth 249 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 2: of that year, hundreds of thousands of people marched in 250 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 2: New York City, San Francisco, and other major cities. On 251 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 2: October twenty first, nineteen sixty seven, about one hundred thousand 252 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 2: people rallied near the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, d C. 253 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,239 Speaker 2: With roughly fifty thousand of them marching to the Pentagon 254 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 2: across the Potomac River in Arlington, Virginia. One of the 255 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 2: famous images of the anti war movement was taken at 256 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 2: this protest. It was of George Harris, later known as Hibiscus, 257 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 2: placing carnations in the barrels of the rifles that were 258 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 2: being wielded by military police. Photographer Bernie Boston titled this 259 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 2: photo flower power. Beat. Poet Alan Ginsberg had popularized that 260 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 2: term in a nineteen six essay that called for demonstrators 261 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 2: to carry flowers and give them to soldiers, police, spectators, 262 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 2: and other people. This photo was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize. 263 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 2: While opposition to the Vietnam War was really growing in 264 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 2: the mid to late nineteen sixties, it wasn't really one 265 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 2: cohesive movement. There were a lot of different. 266 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: People and groups who opposed the war. 267 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 2: For different reasons, and they all had their own priorities 268 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 2: and their own methods. There were people who thought the 269 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 2: US shouldn't be in Vietnam at all, or that the 270 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 2: war had become unwinnable and the US should withdraw. Some 271 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 2: who opposed the war connected what was happening in Vietnam 272 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 2: to US foreign policy in other parts of the world, 273 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 2: including the coup in Guatemala that we mentioned earlier, or 274 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 2: they drew connections between foreign wars and issues of poverty, racism, 275 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 2: and discrimination. 276 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: At home, but. 277 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 2: One specific issue that a lot of people objected to 278 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 2: was the draft. This draft took place via the Selective 279 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,959 Speaker 2: Service System, which was first established in nineteen forty. The 280 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 2: war on the horizon at that point was, of course, 281 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 2: World War II, which was already underway in other parts 282 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 2: of the world, but that the US was not actively 283 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 2: part of yet. 284 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: With very few. 285 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 2: Exceptions, men in the United States, regardless of whether they 286 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 2: were citizens, were required to register with the local Selective 287 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 2: Service Board also called the Draft board when they turned eighteen. 288 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 2: Through the Selective Service system, men had previously been drafted 289 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 2: to serve in World War Two and the Korean War. 290 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 1: Just like there has been an anti war movement alongside 291 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: every war, there have been objections to conscription every time 292 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 1: the United. 293 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 2: States has used it, but opposition to the draft during 294 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 2: the Vietnam War became massive. The US had a large 295 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 2: population of men of draftable age thanks to the post 296 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 2: World War two baby boom, so especially at first, there 297 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 2: were a lot of lawful ways for people to defer 298 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,199 Speaker 2: their service or to be made exempt without keeping the 299 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 2: military from meeting its enlistment goals. Like college students were 300 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 2: eligible for deferment, and the longer person stayed in school, 301 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 2: the longer they could differ. Married men with children were 302 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 2: eligible for hardship deferment, and people could also be exempted 303 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 2: for a number of medical conditions. As many as half 304 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 2: of the people who were eligible for the draft during 305 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 2: the Vietnam War got some kind of deferral or exemption. 306 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 2: People who met the criteria could also register as conscientious 307 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 2: objectors and be assigned an alternative service. Yes, some of 308 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 2: this was narrowed down as the war progressed, but at 309 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 2: first there were a lot of different ways that people 310 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 2: could be deferred for a long time. People did also 311 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 2: evade the draft by fleeing to Canada or another country, 312 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 2: or by just refusing to report for induction. It's that 313 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 2: more than half a million people evaded the draft during 314 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 2: the Vietnam War. People objected to the draft for a 315 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 2: lot of reasons. To some, it was unconscionable for anyone 316 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 2: to be forced to serve in the military. Others sought 317 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 2: there were circumstances in which a draft was called for 318 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 2: and just, but that the war in Vietnam was not 319 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 2: one of them. Although all men were required to register 320 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 2: for the draft, there were racial and economic disparities in 321 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 2: who was actually called to serve, which led to criticisms 322 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 2: from civil rights activists and people who advocated for the 323 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 2: rights of the poor. Changes were made to the draft 324 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 2: system midway through the war to try to mitigate some 325 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 2: of these issues. Once someone registered with the Draft Board, 326 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 2: they were issued a card containing their identifying information and 327 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 2: their draft status. By law, these draft cards had to 328 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 2: be carried at all times. People who opposed the war 329 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 2: or specifically posed the draft started burning their draft cards 330 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 2: as a symbolic act of protest. This didn't erase their 331 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 2: registration or stop them from being drafted, but it more 332 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 2: made a statement. In nineteen sixty five, Congress passed the 333 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 2: Draft Card Mutilation Act, which established fines of up to 334 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,679 Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars or five years in prison for knowingly 335 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:29,360 Speaker 2: destroying or mutilating a draft card. Since the law required 336 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 2: cards to be carried at all times, it already implied 337 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 2: that it was illegal to destroy them, but this made 338 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 2: that explicit. 339 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: With the passage of that law, burning a draft card 340 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: could take on another layer of protest. A person could 341 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: do it publicly with the intention of being arrested. One 342 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: person who did this was David Paul O'Brien, He and 343 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 1: three others burned their draft cards in front of a 344 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: crowd outside the South Boston Courthouse on March thirty first, 345 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six. O'Brien told FBI agents who were on 346 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 1: the scene that he knew what he had done was illegal, 347 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: but that he had done it because of his beliefs. 348 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 1: He was indicted, tried, and convicted, and at trial he 349 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: told the jury that he hoped his action would inspire 350 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: others to adopt those same beliefs. O'Brien was by far 351 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: not the only person to do this, but his case 352 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: was the one that went all the way to the 353 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: Supreme Court, which issued a seven to one decision that 354 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: this law did not violate First Amendment protections on free speech. 355 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 1: Like the Flower Power imagery that we mentioned earlier, burning 356 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: draft cards became emblematic of opposition to the Vietnam War. 357 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 1: While burning a draft card didn't stop someone from being drafted, 358 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: there were also anti war activists who were trying to 359 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: destroy draft records in a way that would stop the draft, 360 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 1: and that was by going to the draft boards to 361 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: do it. 362 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 2: We're going to talk more about that. After we paused 363 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 2: for a sponsor break. In September of nineteen sixty five, 364 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 2: nineteen year old Barry Bondis received his draft notice. He 365 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 2: went to Minneapolis for his physical and his psychological tests, 366 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 2: and on his paperwork he listed his birthplace as Earth 367 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 2: and his race as human. He and his father Tom 368 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 2: started trying to get him exempted from service on religious grounds. 369 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,640 Speaker 2: That led to a meeting at the draft board office 370 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 2: in Elk River, Minnesota. Tom said that he was worried 371 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 2: about the draft because he had twelve sons, and a 372 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 2: member of the draft board asked where the rest of 373 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 2: them were. Tom was outraged by this question and stormed out, 374 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 2: and later the family came up with a plan to 375 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 2: deliver the rest of Barry's brothers to the draft board. 376 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 2: They had come up with an interpretation in which the 377 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 2: rest meant residue and residue meant waste, So they put 378 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 2: a couple of pails in the bathroom and they collected 379 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 2: their waste in them, And then on February twenty third, 380 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty six, Barry took buckets of waste to the 381 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 2: draft board. His initial plan seems to have been to 382 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 2: basically leave them on the secretary's desk and say here's 383 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 2: the rest of my brothers. But once he was in 384 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 2: the office, he had another idea, which was to dump 385 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 2: the waste into the file cabinet containing the draft records. 386 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 2: That December, Barry Bondas was convicted of damaging government property 387 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 2: and interfering with the Selective Service. This seems like kind 388 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 2: of a spur of the moment decision on Bondas's part 389 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 2: to actually dump the human waste into the file cabinet, 390 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 2: but according to news reports from the time, he was 391 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 2: heavily influenced both by his father and by the family's 392 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 2: religious beliefs. Bondas isn't usual described as being part of 393 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 2: the movement that evolved to target draft boards, but this 394 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 2: is probably the earliest incident of draft board vandalism during 395 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 2: the Vietnam War. 396 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: A religious movement to target draft boards started a little 397 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: later in nineteen sixty seven. On October twenty seventh of 398 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 1: that year, four people entered a draft board office in Baltimore, Maryland, 399 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 1: located in the United States Customs House. Philip Berrigan was 400 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: a Catholic priest. Thomas Lewis was an artist and an 401 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: organizer with artists concerned about Vietnam. David Eberhardt was secretary 402 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: of the Baltimore Interfaith Peace Mission. These three presented themselves 403 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 1: as having some reason to be at the Draft office, 404 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,239 Speaker 1: like needing to change their address or to check their 405 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: draft status. Once they were in the office. 406 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 2: They poured a bottles of blood, reportedly it was their 407 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 2: own blood onto the draft records. A fourth man, James Mangle, 408 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 2: was a minister in the United Church of Christ, and 409 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 2: he acted as a lookout and tried to get in 410 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 2: the way of anybody who might come in and try 411 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 2: to stop them. But this was not so the four 412 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 2: men could make their escape. Once they were done. Getting 413 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 2: arrested was part of the point, and they were just 414 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 2: waiting for that to happen. Once they had poured the 415 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 2: blood on the draft files, they issued a statement to 416 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,360 Speaker 2: the press that said, in part quote, we shed our 417 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 2: blood willingly and gratefully. We pour it upon these files 418 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 2: to illustrate that with them, and with these offices, begins 419 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 2: the pitiful waste of American and Vietnamese blood ten thousand 420 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 2: miles away. 421 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,360 Speaker 1: They were charged with conspiracy and an attempt to mutilate 422 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: selective service records. They reportedly turned down offers of leniency 423 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: instead remaining in jail as an act of political protest, 424 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 1: and fasted and prayed while there. 425 00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 2: Well. 426 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: They made no secret of what they had done. They 427 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,399 Speaker 1: pleaded not guilty so their case would go to court, 428 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: and continued to keep the issue in the spotlight. 429 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 2: One of the people who watched their trial from the 430 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 2: gallery was US Army veteran George Misha, who had worked 431 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 2: with the Catholic Organization Mary Nol missionaries in Mexico and 432 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 2: connected US policy in Vietnam to its policies in Latin America. 433 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 2: When the question was raised at trial of whether the 434 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 2: Selective Service Board couldn't just use their duplicate copies to 435 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 2: keep the draft functioning, it was revealed that there were 436 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,439 Speaker 2: no duplicates. When he heard this, Misha turned to his 437 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 2: wife and said they should burn the cards. 438 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: The four men on trial became known as the Baltimore Four, 439 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: and their demonstration was the first of what sometimes described 440 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: as the Catholic number group actions. The Catholic led protests 441 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: and some that were arranged by people who were not Catholic, 442 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 1: were often described using the numb number of people involved 443 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 1: and the city where the action took place. 444 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 2: A few months after the Baltimore four was the Catonsville Nine. 445 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 2: One of those nine people was George Misha. Tom Lewis 446 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 2: and Philip Berrigan were involved as well. They had been 447 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 2: convicted of pouring blood on the draft records in Baltimore, 448 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 2: but they had not yet been sentenced, at least I 449 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 2: think there's some kind of contradictory reporting here of why 450 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 2: they were not incarcerated at this point in the timeline. 451 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 2: Another person who was part of this was Philip Beregan's 452 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 2: brother Daniel, who was also a priest. 453 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: The Catonsville nine break in happened on May seventeenth, nineteen 454 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: sixty eight, a little more than a month after the 455 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: assassination of Martin Luther King Junior and the widespread civil 456 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: unrest that had followed it. The North Vietnamese had also 457 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: launched a coordinated surprise attack known as the Tet Offensive 458 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: at the end of January on the Lunar New Year 459 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: Holiday Tet. Although both sides claimed victory in the Tet Offensive, 460 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: this did not bring a decisive end to the war, 461 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: as the North Vietnamese had hoped when planning the operation, 462 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: but American casualties did spike during this part of the conflict. 463 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: Which was one of the reasons support for the war 464 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: continued to wane in the United States. The House of 465 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: Representatives had called for a congressional review of US policy 466 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: in Vietnam, and the US had replaced the commander in 467 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: charge of its military forces there. So when seven men 468 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: and two women went into the draft board in Catonsville, Maryland, 469 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: removed three hundred and seventy eight draft files, covered them 470 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: with homemade napalm in the parking lot, and set them 471 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: on fire. In the wake of all this, it was 472 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: a major national news story. Pouring blood on the draft 473 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: records had been evocative, and so was burning them with napalm. 474 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: They had made it from a recipe they adapted from 475 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: a Special Forces handbook. As had happened in Baltimore, getting 476 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: arrested and facing trial was part of the point, and 477 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: so was the news coverage they had tipped off the 478 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: media ahead of time. None of the Catonsville nine were 479 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: eligible for the draft. They were exempt because of their age, 480 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: their sex, or some other reason. They spoke of being 481 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: motivated by their religious convictions, including the fact that only 482 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: five of the roughly four hundred Catholic bishops in the 483 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: US had spoken out in opposition to the war. Thomas Melville, 484 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: one of the participants, told reporters that since their church 485 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 1: had failed to act officially, they felt it was up 486 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: to them to act as individuals to speak out in 487 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: the name of Catholicism and Christianity. 488 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 2: Some of the participants also spoke out on what they 489 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 2: saw as parallels between US involvement in Vietnam and its 490 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 2: actions in other parts of the world. We mentioned George 491 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 2: Misha's time in Mexico earlier. John Hogan had served as 492 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 2: a mission buil business manager in Guatemala, and Marjorie and 493 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 2: Thomas Melville had both been in Guatemala in connection with 494 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 2: the Marinol Catholic Mission movement. They had all seen the 495 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 2: impact of things like the CIA orchestrated coup that we 496 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 2: mentioned earlier. These activists saw patterns of oppression, inequality, and poverty, 497 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 2: including within the United States, as interconnected with what was 498 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 2: happening in Vietnam. 499 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: After setting the draft records on fire, the Catonsville Nine 500 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: prayed for peace while waiting to be arrested. They refused bail, 501 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: and they fasted while waiting in jail. Their trial began 502 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 1: in federal court on October fifth, nineteen sixty eight, and 503 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: it lasted for five days. There was an anti war 504 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: protest on the first day of the trial, which happened 505 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: at the same time as a George Wallace campaign rally, 506 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: which made it a tense day. Anti war protests continued 507 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: on in the later days of the trial as well. 508 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 2: At trial, the defendants admitted to what they had done, 509 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 2: but without describing themselves as guilty. They talked about burning 510 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 2: the draft records as an act of conscience, one connected 511 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 2: to a desire to end suffering around the world, including 512 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 2: within the United States. David Darst, who is a Christian brother, 513 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 2: said quote, I wanted to do a tiny bit to 514 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 2: stop the machine of death I saw moving. 515 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: The Catonsville nine were found guilty on all charges. They 516 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: were fined and given sentences of between twenty four and 517 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: forty two months each. Tom Lewis and Philip Brigan were 518 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: given the longest sentences, in part because of their earlier 519 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: conviction for pouring blood on the draft records in Baltimore. 520 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 2: David Darst died in a car accident before his sentence began, 521 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 2: and Mary Moylan, the Berrigan brothers, and George Misha all 522 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 2: went into hiding rather than reporting for their incarceration. The 523 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 2: four of them were all eventually captured or turned themselves in, 524 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 2: but that took years. The last of them, Mary Moylan, 525 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 2: turned herself in ten years after the trial. Dan Berrigan 526 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 2: also seemed to kind of taunt authorities. He would regularly 527 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 2: appear in public to speak or to participate in some 528 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 2: kind of protest or demonstration, and then he would disappear again. 529 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 2: The Canonsville Nine became the inspiration for a whole movement 530 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 2: of direct actions at draft board offices. At least thirty 531 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 2: of them were connected to the Catholic Left movement, which 532 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 2: was focused on nonviolent resistance against the Vietnam War and 533 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 2: against warmore generally, especially among the people who were motivated 534 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 2: by their religious convictions, these were public demonstrations not just 535 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 2: with the possibility of being arrested and charged with a crime, 536 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 2: but with the intent of that happening, because that was 537 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 2: part of the sacrifice and part of the impact of 538 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 2: what they were doing. The effects these draft board raids 539 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 2: had on the actual was often temporary. Although testimony in 540 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 2: the Baltimore four case had suggested that there were no 541 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 2: backup records, there weren't registers and other paperwork. Draft files 542 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 2: were often damaged but not completely destroyed in this process, 543 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 2: so a lot of the time it was possible to 544 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,439 Speaker 2: reconstruct most or all of them later, so it sort 545 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 2: of put a pause on drafts happening from a particular office, 546 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 2: rather than a total stop to them. We're going to 547 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,240 Speaker 2: talk about more of the nearly three hundred draft board 548 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,720 Speaker 2: raids carried out between nineteen sixty eight and nineteen seventy 549 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 2: two next time. In the meantime, I have lister mail. Marvelous. 550 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 2: This is from Brandon, Brandon wrote after our episode on 551 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 2: doctor Daniel Hale Williams, and Brandon wrote, Hi, there, Sym, 552 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 2: I see. I wanted to say thank you for highlighting 553 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 2: such an interesting figure in history whom I'd only heard 554 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 2: simple anecdotes about previously. The comprehensive dive into his past 555 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 2: makes for an exceptional story. Mister Williams reminds me of 556 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 2: one of my great ancestors who made huge advances in 557 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 2: the black community during the late eighteen and early nineteen hundreds. 558 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 2: His name was doctor Aaron McDuffie Moore, and his great 559 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 2: great granddaughter is the CEO of the Durham Colored Library, 560 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 2: founded by doctor Moore in nineteen fifteen, who has written 561 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 2: a very comprehensive official biography of his life. I and 562 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 2: the rest of the family would love for you to 563 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 2: tell his story and highlight him as well. You ladies 564 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,720 Speaker 2: are so good at it. You can order his biography here. Also, 565 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 2: would you mind suggesting how I might go about getting 566 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 2: a similar podcast started so that I can monetize telling great, 567 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 2: historically relevant stories to a wide audience. I'm sitting on 568 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,280 Speaker 2: a treasure trove and currently spinning my wheels getting started. 569 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 2: Much appreciate all you do. Keep up the great work. 570 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 2: Cheers Brandon. Thank you so much, Brandon. I had not 571 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 2: actually heard of the Durham Colored Library before. This is 572 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:14,439 Speaker 2: new information to me. This biography of Aaron McDuffie Moore 573 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:19,360 Speaker 2: is called Aaron McDuffie Moore, an African American physician, educator 574 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 2: and founder of Durham's Black Wall Street. If you go 575 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 2: to durhamcl dot org standing for Durham d U r 576 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:33,319 Speaker 2: h A M. Colored Library dot org, you can learn 577 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 2: more about this biography and how to get a copy 578 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 2: of it. So thank you so much to write for 579 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 2: writing and asking or letting us know about that In 580 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 2: terms of the question about starting a podcast, that's a 581 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 2: very big question. 582 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: There are lots of. 583 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 2: Resources around about how to get started in podcasting. One 584 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 2: place that I point people to a lot when they 585 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 2: are getting started is called Transom dot org. Just Transom, 586 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 2: but transom dot org is their website and they have 587 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 2: a ton of resources about podcasting, about storytelling, all of 588 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. It can be a place to 589 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 2: really get started and learn new ideas and strategies. In 590 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 2: terms of monetizing a podcast, that's a complicated question. There 591 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,799 Speaker 2: are lots of different ways to try to monetize a podcast, 592 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 2: and there are a lot of different services now that 593 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 2: allow podcast hosts and creators to have or have advertisements. Dynamically, 594 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 2: it'serted into their show, which is how ours work. We 595 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 2: have some ads that we Holly and I record, but 596 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 2: then we have other ads that come in through a 597 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,720 Speaker 2: sort of network. I don't think we can really offer 598 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 2: advice on any particular one, but that is a way 599 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,759 Speaker 2: to get ads into a podcast. Asked if you are 600 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 2: just starting out and building an audience, Yeah, we're in 601 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,760 Speaker 2: that unique position where we're part of a bigger network 602 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,439 Speaker 2: that has been you know, the show has been part 603 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 2: of for like close to fifteen more now, So in 604 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 2: that regard, we don't really deal with a lot of 605 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 2: the monetization part we had. There's literally a whole sales 606 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,799 Speaker 2: team within our company that does that. Yeah, I will 607 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 2: say this just as a matter of expectations management. A 608 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 2: lot of podcasts don't make any money, right, right, the 609 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 2: vast majority don't make any money. So I would I 610 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 2: always encourage people, even if we bring them into our network, 611 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 2: to not anticipate that this will be a significant driver 612 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 2: of income or revenue, right, just as a reality scenario, Like, 613 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 2: I don't want anybody to think, like, you know, the 614 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,719 Speaker 2: chart of like record publish money and it doesn't like 615 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 2: a situation. Yeah, my spouse and I were in a 616 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,399 Speaker 2: meeting and we were doing the sort of the introductory 617 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,760 Speaker 2: talking about who we are. It was a personal meeting 618 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,840 Speaker 2: that not important in the context, but he said something like, 619 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 2: I have learned that the way to have a really 620 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 2: financially successful podcast is to have started it way in 621 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 2: the past, which we are extraordinarily lucky to have stepped 622 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 2: into a podcast that was already established and also at 623 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 2: this point to have been on it for more than 624 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 2: twelve years. Because the process of building an audience and 625 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,360 Speaker 2: getting your work more widely heard can be a long road. 626 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:44,960 Speaker 2: I mean, some shows are incredibly lucky and kind of 627 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 2: hit that viral moment, but the viral moment doesn't happen 628 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 2: for a lot of shows. And for people that are 629 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 2: doing something that is a labor of love that they're 630 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 2: just really dedicated to and passionate about, that can carry 631 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 2: people through a lot. But there are also people who 632 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 2: eventually decide, hey, like, I'm spending so much time on 633 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 2: this and so much effort on this, and I cannot 634 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:11,719 Speaker 2: continue to do it for indefinitely and definitely without being 635 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 2: able to make it a profitable thing. So yeah, I 636 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 2: don't know if I have. I used to have a 637 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 2: whole list of other resources besides Transom to direct people to, 638 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 2: but that's a good starting point. I will also say 639 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,560 Speaker 2: this because it has come up a number of times 640 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 2: where I will be out in the world, especially if 641 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 2: I'm at like an event or something, and someone comes 642 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 2: up and wants to, like, pitch me a show. You 643 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,560 Speaker 2: don't have to be part of a big network to 644 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,719 Speaker 2: make a podcast. You don't have to wait for permission 645 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,919 Speaker 2: to make the thing that is in your heart, and 646 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,400 Speaker 2: like we said, even if you are, the odds of 647 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 2: actually making money at it are not amazing. So like 648 00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 2: I always encourage people to just make it. Never assume 649 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,799 Speaker 2: there's one great idea that you have and you will 650 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,400 Speaker 2: never have another good one. Make the great idea and 651 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 2: then see what happens. And as he said, you might 652 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:14,480 Speaker 2: decide this is too much time and effort for me 653 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 2: to do if I'm not getting compensated in some way, 654 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 2: which is totally fine and in no way of failure 655 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 2: because you have made something and that is amazing. But yeah, 656 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 2: I always don't. You don't have to wait for permission 657 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,960 Speaker 2: from a network or a sponsor or anything. You can 658 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:32,400 Speaker 2: just make it as it. Yeah. Yeah, I'm kind of 659 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,160 Speaker 2: reminded of the number of pretty successful authors I know 660 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 2: who've published a lot of books and also have day jobs. Yeah, 661 00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 2: which is one of those things where if I had 662 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 2: a magical wand a magical wand a magic wand to 663 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,920 Speaker 2: change things about society would include you know, artists and 664 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 2: writers and crafts people earning a living wage on the 665 00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,840 Speaker 2: things that they love to make. Ed We'll say, you know, 666 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:06,320 Speaker 2: try what you want to try. Do not feel tied 667 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 2: to how other shows that are doing podcasts are doing 668 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 2: it so important. They're like, it's a wide open field 669 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:19,400 Speaker 2: to feel free to take risks, do interesting things, not 670 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:26,320 Speaker 2: try to sound like other shows already sound. Hopefully any 671 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 2: of that was helpful if you'd like to send us 672 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,040 Speaker 2: a note about this or any other podcasts. Where at 673 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:37,440 Speaker 2: history podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com and you can't subscribe 674 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 2: to our show on the iHeartRadio app and anywhere else 675 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 2: you like to get your podcasts. Stuff you missed in 676 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,799 Speaker 2: History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts 677 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:57,000 Speaker 2: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 678 00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:01,799 Speaker 2: you listen to your favorite shows.