WEBVTT - From Gamergate to Trump 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.680 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to ok F Daily with 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:19.280 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Recording from the home bunker. Folks, 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:21.640 I am very excited to bring to you the first 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:26.360 part of a two part conversation with my producer extraordinaire 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:30.480 at wok F Daily, Andrew Marcello. And if you all remember, 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:33.599 a couple of weeks ago, we had a conversation with 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:37.320 our friend or in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel about 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:42.080 Generation Z men and how they are aligning with Donald 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:47.000 Trump and MAGA and the reasons for that, feeling left out, 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:50.400 the rise in misogyny, what is their role in place 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:55.520 in a modernizing society, And what Andrew had brought to 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:58.880 my attention is that, like these things did not happen 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:04.640 over night or transpire out of thin air, that these 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:10.480 young men have been reached through the gaming industry, and 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:17.399 how the right wing has utilized gaming culture and capitalized 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:20.679 off of it for their own means and political end, 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:23.320 and so in order for us to get to where 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:27.520 we are in present day, Andrew brings us through kind 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:33.760 of this extraordinary journey into gaming and where it was 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:37.320 like in the nineties and the early two thousands and 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:40.600 then how we get to where we are right now. 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:44.040 So this is part one of a two part conversation 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:52.280 with Andrew Marshello, folks, I am super excited. I don't 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:55.240 actually remember the last time that we did this, but 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:56.960 I feel like it was a couple of years ago. 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:00.320 But I am super excited to welcome from behind find 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:06.600 the production table, video and microphone, my producer here at 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:11.919 wok at Daily, Andrew Marcello, to talk about an issue 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:19.320 that we started in conversation with doctor Jonathan Metzel about 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:24.800 kind of gen Z's male gen Z turned to the 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:30.280 right and their like desire to connect with Donald Trump 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:34.000 and kind of what I refer to as toxic masculinity 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:37.760 and this push to the right by this younger generation. 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:43.480 And Andrew, you brought to my attention after Jonathan and 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:47.000 I were discussing this New York Times article that this 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:51.640 is not new and that it actually began as something 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:56.000 called gamer gate. And I say something called because for 0:02:56.120 --> 0:03:00.000 those of us that exist outside of the gaming world 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:03.000 in industry, you may not have heard of this. And 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:05.839 so I want to give you, Andrew an opportunity one 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:09.560 to kind of explain that, explain game or gate, and 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:12.760 like just the title what it is, and then we 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:16.680 can get into a larger conversation about what's being fueled 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:21.560 inside of this community and how it's spilling over into politics. Right. 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:24.079 Absolutely, Well, first of all, thank you so much for 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:26.800 bringing me back on This is, like you said, a 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:29.519 bit of a different context than I've been on to 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.360 discuss in the past, But I appreciate you inviting me 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:34.960 on to talk about this because also, as you said, 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:37.640 this wasn't something that I don't think this is something 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:43.320 that a lot of people outside of the gaming and 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:47.480 tech worlds really know about. It's not something that received 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:49.600 a lot of mainstream media coverage. And like maybe if 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:52.880 you're in something like this, like what we're talking about 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:55.560 right now, in the political world, you may know about 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:56.960 this and may have heard about it, and may have 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:01.120 at least heard like game or Gate, and possibly heard 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.120 of Miley Yanopolis and definitely heard of Steve Bannon, who 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:07.400 will get to But and that's sort of the lynchpin 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:10.200 for all this. So let's go back. Let's go way 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:13.640 back to nineteen ninety three, because this matters. In December 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:15.800 nineteen ninety three and going into nineteen ninety four, the 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:20.360 United States Senate Committees on Governmental Affairs and the Judiciary 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:24.239 held congressional hearings with executives for several video game companies, 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:27.640 including Nintendo and Sega, who were leading the industry back then. 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:29.800 If you remember the nineties, the Super Nintendo and the 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.640 Second Genesis were the hottest things at the time, at 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.920 least in America, and so executives from Nintendo and Sega 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:38.599 and some other big video game companies were called to 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:44.640 Congress for hearings about video game violence. And these were 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:46.840 sparked by Senator Joe Lieberman. 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:51.040 You yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah wow. The late Joe 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:52.039 Liuba okay. 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:54.279 Mm hmm, a staffer for Joe Lieberman, had a family 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:58.680 member who had gotten Mortal Kombat and Night Trap, which 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.880 is a game about teenage girls being haunted by like 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:06.680 vampiric monsters. It's very b movie, but just seeing like 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:10.360 full motion video of like I don't even want to say, 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:13.480 scantily clad, like girls in like pajamas, like dancing around 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.520 for the camera. Somehow this sparked his moral outrage, and 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:20.640 especially Moral Kombat sparked this moral outrage so much that 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:23.880 they held congressional hearings on it. This is important and 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:27.880 relevant because it sets the stage for people who play 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:31.960 video games video gamers to have a cultural identity, a 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:38.239 subcultural identity where they see themselves as persecuted and countercultural. 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:42.480 They have a hobby that is being attacked by outsiders 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:48.719 who don't fully understand what they're attacking. So this is important. Now, 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:52.440 going ahead about ten years, we have a Florida attorney 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:55.480 named Jack Thompson who you may not have heard of, 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:59.160 but if you're listening and happen to be in the 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:02.280 sort of online video game culture worlds twenty years ago. 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:04.919 Jack Thompson was someone who got a lot of attention 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:09.279 because he was there's no polite way to call someone 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:12.240 an ambulance chaser. He was disbarred in two thousand and eight, 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:17.800 and he basically anytime there was a violent crime that 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:22.279 he could sort of take advantage of. I'm characterizing this, 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:24.200 but the way that it came off was that he 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:27.440 would see these violent crimes in the news and attribute 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.720 them to video game violence, particularly the Grand Theft Auto series. 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:35.600 So he was something of a moral crusader against violent 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:40.000 video games. And this again reinforced the idea amongst people 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:42.640 who play video games, and especially people who play video 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:45.040 games and then go on the Internet to talk about 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:50.240 the video games they play. That video gaming is this 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.280 thing that isn't understood by the mainstream and is also 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:58.719 seen as violent and harmful even when it's being misconstrued. 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:01.920 So these two things really helped to set the stage 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:06.039 for what would then happen another decade later, when at 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:11.120 the same time as stuff is happening with video games 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:15.280 on the Internet, there's also a broader change happening on 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:20.240 online social media platforms such as Tumblr that are embracing 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:25.680 feminism and feminist social justice and feminist critical analysis of 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:31.920 pop culture media. So a woman named Anita Sarkisian had 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:35.960 a YouTube channel called Feminist Frequency and she released a 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:36.880 video series. 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:38.520 You've heard of this, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:40.400 And it was called Tropes Versus Women in Video Games 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.680 and it basically took off. There are a few popular 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:45.440 videos in there. There was a two part series on 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:48.280 Damsels in Distress that really broke through, but the Tropes 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.600 Versus Women in Video Game series was something that really 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:54.080 broke out. You've heard of it. So, with this stage 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:58.000 having been set by the things I mentioned prior, the 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:02.080 reaction to Tropes verse as Women in Video Games played 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:09.080 into the gamer identity of we are persecuted by outsiders 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:10.200 who don't understand us. 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:15.200 Her point was like, here is this culture that when 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:19.240 you look at the videos that are including women in them, 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:23.840 they're playing out these stereotypes, and they're playing out these 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:27.720 caricatures that can be harmful and be dangerous. And she 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:30.960 wanted to lift up the fact that while society on 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:35.000 the outside in four to D may be moving forward, 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:40.319 that what is happening in the gaming industry doesn't seem 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:43.760 to have evolved in that same way. Tell us what 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:48.680 would happen just Herakeysian, because this, I mean this to 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:51.520 me is like is wild right? 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:54.160 We're actually really just setting the stage now. And like 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:58.079 you said, the world was starting to move on even 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.880 outside the online space, even outside Tumblr, like there was 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:06.480 a greater recognition of like women or people. I hate 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:09.319 to say it that way, but like the end tail 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:11.960 of third wave feminism and whatever it started to evolve 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:14.360 in in the late two thousands and early twenty tens 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:16.880 was something that really did break through in the mainstream, 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:19.840 even in such a casual way of like, we should 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:23.400 be showing women in things more because they make up 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:26.400 fifty percent of the population. And at the same time 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:29.840 as this, the demographics around video gaming were changing. The 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:32.840 SIMS was a really big breakout title. There were breakout 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:35.319 titles online that people could play on their web browsers 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:38.679 on Facebook without having to have a video game console 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:43.160 or a high powered PC. So at the time, video 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:47.520 gaming was already approaching or maybe even at this statistic 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:50.679 where not only do women make up fifty percent of 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:55.760 the outside world population, but hello, gamers, women actually make 0:09:55.840 --> 0:10:00.640 up close to or literally fifty percent of the population 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:04.040 of people who play video games. And then you get 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:08.240 into gamers trying to claim what is and isn't a 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:10.439 game for gamers. But we're getting ahead of ourselves. So 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:14.280 what happened to Anita is a sort of microcosm of 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:17.960 what would happen more broadly, because you get this backlash 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:22.880 from capital g gamers who have been conditioned by these 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:29.080 social events to see themselves as social outcasts, and like, 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:31.319 let's be real in real life. You know, in the 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:33.440 nineties and two thousands, if you were a person who 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:35.280 played video games and made that a part of your 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:39.560 cultural identity, you weren't necessarily a popular person unless you 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:44.400 played Madden or Call of Duty or the sims. You 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:46.880 were discussing something that a lot of people didn't understand 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:49.080 and quite frankly didn't want to engage with, and so 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:51.320 that contributes to the type of person who then goes 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.480 online to discuss this with people like them online and 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:58.080 get into this bubble and all this. Now we've set 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:03.040 the stage ten minutes later for the explosion of gamer 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:05.880 gate in twenty thirteen into twenty fourteen. 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:09.200 So let me say this because as a complete and 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:14.720 total outsider, I do think that to some extent, there 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:20.000 is a caricature of gamers that has been created that 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:23.960 raw I can totally picture it, and I think that 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:28.400 in some ways it has been like the gamer identity. 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:30.600 And I want you to talk about the gamer identity 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:32.880 because a question that I had was like, do you 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:37.000 consider yourself a gamer? And what does that mean for 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:44.080 those that identify as gamers Given the equation to the 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:49.320 parallels to in sell and right wing and toxic masculinity, 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:53.640 that is like, oh, the young white guy in a 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:57.360 basement of his parents' apartment that hasn't seen daylight in, 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.000 you know, in a week, and just plays video games 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:05.520 for ten twelve hours a day. That's like a caricature 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.480 and a stereotype that has been created. But there is 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:13.920 also something too what the right wing and the white supremacist, 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:18.560 toxic masculinity and misogynist movement has been able to do 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:24.600 to infiltrate this community. So I guess the first question 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:28.679 is do you identify as a gamer? And if not, 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:33.120 or if so, like, what does that identity actually mean. 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:35.640 To you listening right now? We are actually going to 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:37.800 get to what gamer gate is and how it happened 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:39.840 and how it ties in. But all this stage setting 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.240 really does matter. And so to get to the gamer 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:45.520 identity of it all. It's sad because I would love 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:47.120 to sit here and be like, I'm a gamer and 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:50.959 I'm proud, but that's hard to say amidst all of this. 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:56.360 And this is relevant to the anti social harassment movement 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.640 that was gamer gait, that became the thing that you're 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:03.240 talking about. The gamer identity became a lynchpin. And there 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:06.880 was an article published by Lee Alexander, who became targeted 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:10.840 by mile Unanapolis and became targeted by Breitbart by name 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:14.080 in the headline of articles that they published on their 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:18.240 hate blog. She wrote an article called Gamers are Dead, 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:22.280 which was the focal point of the article, was saying, 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:27.480 the gamer identity is dead. There's no longer basically what 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:31.200 you're describing, gaming is no longer an enthusiast hobby that 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:35.520 targets a minority of people who approach it one specific 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:39.360 way and like one specific type of design. If you 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.400 like games where you shoot things in space, or you 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:47.920 like things where boys with swords fight monsters, you're into 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:51.720 video games. Video gaming, as we discussed, moved away from 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.120 that already by that point, and so at the same time, 0:13:54.160 --> 0:14:00.720 the gamer identity, whether pejorative or positive, of you know, 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:04.880 someone by themselves in a room, sort of shut out 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:08.200 from society or at odds with society in some way, 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:14.400 was no longer useful, and gamers people who identified that 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:19.480 way hated it. They hated this idea that, like your 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:23.440 identity could be dead, which I understand, or even changing, 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:27.400 even evolving. Even if Lee Alexander had said gamer is 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:31.160 evolving as opposed to gamers are dead, I don't think 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:34.000 there would have been a different response because the response 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:36.280 wasn't to the statement gamers are dead. It was a 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.760 response to the sentiment of, like you said, things are 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:43.160 changing the world around you. Is changing, get with the times. 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:47.160 So to come back around, I don't self identify as 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:49.000 a gamer. Like I said, it kind of makes me 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.120 sad not to, but I'm a person who plays video games. 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.000 I am. I would consider myself a video gaming enthusiast. 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.280 I actually am someone who engages with video game stuff 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:01.040 online and I use it to late to people in 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:05.040 my real life. But I don't consider myself a capital 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:08.120 G gamer. I wouldn't really use that word in conversation, 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.040 and sadly, a lot of people I know if you 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:13.520 use that word in conversation, if you said, like you're 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:16.680 a gamer or I'm a gamer, the people I know 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:20.720 would cringe at that because of all this. And so 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:23.600 that's another Now we've sort of set the stage from 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:29.480 forward because the well around gamer became so poisoned because 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.240 of people like this, because of the type of person 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:36.880 who evolved into a very short amount of time, which 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.240 we will get too soon in two or three years, 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.880 into tiki torches in Charlottesville. So I think we're ready. 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:50.400 Now, So Andrew, this has been wonderful. The table is set, 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.560 the candles are lit, the china is out, and the 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:56.880 meal is on it, like, let's eat now tell us 0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:04.640 how we get from gamer Gate tutiki torches in Charlottesville 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:10.880 to a population of young men Generation Z that is 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:17.880 finding their identity more aligned with MAGA and Trump than 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:20.720 they are with Democrats. 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:24.320 We've set this stage and still I find myself at 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:28.600 where to begin. So there is an independent game developer 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:34.320 named Zoe Quinn who in twenty thirteen, amidst other transformative 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:38.119 games releasing games that aren't about shooting things or slashing swords, 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.360 they released a game called Depression Quest, which was a 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:43.800 text based adventure game. I don't know if you remember, 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:46.120 but they used to make games on like the Apple 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:48.440 to or the Macintosh where the whole game was text 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:52.040 and you would type like go forward, go backwards, pick 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.200 up the candle. So it was a sort of old 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:57.560 school throwback game, but it was about mental health and 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:01.400 encountering the world through the lens of dealing with mental 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:05.720 health struggles. Already, the Capitol G gamers do not like 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:08.000 Depression Quest. They do not like the amount of attention 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:13.320 Depression Quest gets on websites. And then the day in 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:17.720 twenty fourteen that Depression Quest released on Steam, which is 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:21.440 a PC platform. It's probably the most popular PC platform 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:24.200 to play video games, millions upon millions upon millions of 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.960 people you Steam. The same day that it released, Zoe 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:32.880 Quinn's X released a manifesto online that accused them of 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:36.840 infidelity and also implied that. 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:38.520 That they got there by sleeping their way to the top. 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:42.320 Exactly, they got that coverage by sleeping with members of 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:46.720 the gaming press. That was the allegation, and even even 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.360 implicitly because this person tried to go back and say, well, 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:52.560 it was my wording, like act like they didn't they 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:58.560 this one single thing, a jilted X making accusations which 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.600 in the whole grand scheme of things doesn't matter whether 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:03.760 they were true or not. This is what caused the 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:08.320 entire thing. So gamers latched onto this, said, Zoe Quinn 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:13.760 is getting coverage because of outdated sexist tropes that are 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:17.719 being fed into It became a harassment campaign very quickly, 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:22.160 and it was called quinnspiracy. And so they would be 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:24.359 in places the people who were involved in this because 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:26.520 they have nothing better to do with their lives, like 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:29.240 actually go play video games. They have nothing better to 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:33.040 do with their lives, then go online coordinate harassment against 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.560 a person. It's almost like they treated it like a game. 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:38.600 But when you harass someone and you're going online and 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:40.919 posting about quinspiracy and all this stuff, you're kind of 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:41.800 telling on yourselves. 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:45.679 So this is the irony for me because I'm just like, so, 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:51.679 you're pissed off that your identity is being called out 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:54.760 and your community is being called out, and then you 0:18:54.880 --> 0:19:00.280 engage in the very activities that your community is being 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:04.040 held accountable for. So, oh, we're not all sexist, we're 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:07.400 not all misogynists, we're not all these in cell types. 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:11.000 But then all of the harassment and rhetoric is around 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:14.439 raping and killing and torturing women. 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:17.840 Yeah, it's very please excuse my language, but it's very like, 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.080 how dare these bitches say I'm misogynists? 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:21.359 Yeah? It's wild. 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:25.040 Yeah, and I didn't even think about that angle, the 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:27.840 angle of like at the same time, literally the same 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:29.960 time that tropes versus women, which we will get back to, 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:33.919 is running. They're doing all this. So to make this 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:41.040 part short, they rebranded conspiracy as gamer gait. They had 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:44.960 started calling Zoe Quinn LW, which stood for literally who 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:48.160 is to act like they weren't talking about harassing Zoe Quinn, 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:51.320 and then they started harassing other women and fem presenting 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:56.440 people who criticized video games and video gamer culture. So 0:19:56.840 --> 0:20:01.200 Anita Sarkisian was a target. Lee Alexander, who gamers are Dead, 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:04.520 was a target. Brianna Wu who manages to still be 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:08.720 around and get headlines, it was a target. And when 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:11.960 I want to be clear to anyone who's listening, when 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.720 we're talking about harassment, this is bad in and of itself, 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.199 but we're not just talking about like sending someone posts 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:20.800 and being like I'm gonna do violent act to you. 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:24.600 It went beyond online threats, which again are bad enough 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:27.320 and need to be taken seriously, but it went into 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:31.440 finding members of their family, getting in contact with members 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:35.360 of their family, leaking their addresses, sending the police to houses. 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:37.480 Yeah, doxing and all of. 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:39.879 That, doxing and swatting, which are techniques that have been 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:42.919 talked about on this program before, but essentially, yes, use 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:47.159 it weaponizing the police, which if you're a listener to this, 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:49.080 you're aware of how the police can get weaponized. I 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:53.639 imagine a weaponizing the police against people, against against women 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:59.000 and people perceived as women for the act of being 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:03.399 a woman, and saying that men shouldn't be doing the 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:05.720 things that men do, or just you know, happening to 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:11.680 exist as a woman and have some sort of perceived 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:16.160 moral failing that you as an individual and individuals coming 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:18.840 together as a little hate group have you know, hate 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:22.640 for I don't think it's coincidental that like, oh, this 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:29.679 attractive mid twenties woman who cheated on her partner and 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:32.719 is in tech. So it's like, as a gamer, I 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:34.679 do want to sort of set the stage of you know, 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:37.240 it's embarrassing, but I've been in circles like this, Like 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:40.000 when there's a woman in your circle, she is like 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:42.080 the center of everything because it's like, oh my god, 0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:44.080 a girl's in our boys club. A girl has chosen 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:45.520 to be in our boys club, A girl wants to 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:48.120 hang around us. And so it's like the worst thing 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:51.560 that could happen happened. The gamer girl betrayed them, their 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:55.920 imaginary gamer GF. Like this could be your girlfriend, This 0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:58.359 could be your gamer girlfriend a cheating on you and 0:21:58.400 --> 0:21:59.360 then getting famous. 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:03.359 This is where I see the relationship and I want, 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:06.000 with like the couple of minutes that we have left 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:10.040 for you to get to Steve Bannon and like how 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:15.919 this now presents itself outside of or still withinside of 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:20.480 the gaming community, but now has presented itself in politics 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:25.679 in a very real way where this kind of again 0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:29.280 i'm gonna say in cell type thinking, this kind of 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:33.960 deep misogyny and hatred for women. How you see it 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:39.480 present itself inside of Project twenty twenty five, inside of MAGA, 0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:44.680 inside of trump Ism, and how it's turning what has 0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:50.840 been this online world into real, live votes and issues. 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:54.639 It's funny that you bring up in cell and someone 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:57.720 more qualified than me can talk about because I didn't 0:22:57.720 --> 0:23:02.159 even think about this. The intersection between the rise of 0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:05.960 gamer gait and the rise of in cell culture. There's 0:23:06.040 --> 0:23:08.920 definitely intersection there, but there's also sort of like, these 0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:14.760 are two individual communities that have crossover. That's unfortunately to 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:17.480 be stereotypical. If you're spending twelve hours a day spent 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:20.119 playing video games, that leaves twelve hours a day that 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:24.880 you're not socializing with your preferred potential sex partners. But anyway, 0:23:25.040 --> 0:23:28.320 there was definitely a simultaneous rise of like young men 0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:31.359 who are sexually frustrated and feel they have no options, 0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:34.719 which again I can't really speak to. And then also 0:23:35.440 --> 0:23:40.719 the gamer gait type culture. But anyway, enter Steve Bannon. 0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:44.240 We've gotten here, so enter Steve Bannon and enter Breitbart. 0:23:44.600 --> 0:23:47.520 Some people may remember the name Milo Yanopolis because for 0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:49.359 a little bit he was trying to crossover as a 0:23:49.400 --> 0:23:52.600 legitimate media person and no one would have him. He 0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:57.399 got hired by Steve Bannon to Breitbart as their tech 0:23:58.160 --> 0:24:02.479 massive air quotes journalist. And you can actually still go 0:24:02.520 --> 0:24:05.960 on Breitbart, and you can go on breitbart dot com 0:24:06.080 --> 0:24:11.520 slash tag slash gamergate and see the type of posts 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:14.600 that Milenopolis and some other people at Breitbart were making. 0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:18.920 But it was a lot of even in the headlines, 0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:24.119 it encourages harassing women. It celebrates when their targets leave 0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:27.520 gaming and leave gaming journalism, their career is over, they 0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:29.760 have given up and decided they're no longer going to 0:24:29.800 --> 0:24:32.720 fight this, and Breitbart basically goes, hooray, yep, bee, we won. 0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:35.159 We got another one. And there's one specific headline that 0:24:35.200 --> 0:24:38.600 I wrote down. It was about quote, why so many 0:24:38.800 --> 0:24:43.640 angry women have blue hair? So if you ever hear 0:24:43.680 --> 0:24:46.200 the whole blue haired liberal or like liberals have blue 0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:49.640 hair and pronouns, that literally comes from Breitbart and Gamergate 0:24:49.680 --> 0:24:53.520 twenty fifteen, and Steve Bannon had a quote in a 0:24:53.520 --> 0:24:56.920 book by Joshua Green called Devil's Bargain where he was 0:24:56.960 --> 0:24:59.480 asked about Milo and asked about Gamergate, and this is 0:24:59.480 --> 0:25:03.879 Steve Banner quote quote, I realized Milo could connect with 0:25:03.920 --> 0:25:08.840