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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Well, I have talked till

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Speaker 1: I'm blue in the face about being careful, not getting

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Speaker 1: in cars with people you don't know, not accepting rides,

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Speaker 1: all about personal safety. I've even written a book on it.

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Speaker 1: Don't be a victim? And what does this mother do?

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Speaker 1: A thirty four year old mother. She puts her little girl,

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Speaker 1: a little tiny girl, into a car with a stranger

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Speaker 1: and sends her off. How does she know whether that

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Speaker 1: lift driver was a registered sex offender closet purv Who

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Speaker 1: knows who he was a kidnapper? How do I know

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Speaker 1: he and his wife didn't always want a little girl?

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Speaker 1: Just like her Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, It never ends,

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Speaker 1: doesn't I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us here at Fox Nation. And Sirius

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Speaker 1: XM one eleven. Well, I guess I know the answer

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Speaker 1: to that, Cheryl McCallum. It does never end, It will

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Speaker 1: not ever end. But you know what, we can take

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Speaker 1: care of this woman. What is her name, Stephanie? Good

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Speaker 1: do take a listen to our friends a crime online.

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Speaker 1: New Hampshire Police get a call that two of Stephanie

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Speaker 1: Gaudu's children had not been picked up from daycare. Childcare

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Speaker 1: workers report they tried to call his thirty four year

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Speaker 1: old mother, but we're unable to reach her. Police beginning

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Speaker 1: and investigation finding out Godhu also has a three month

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Speaker 1: old baby. Officers go to Godhu's home and find her

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Speaker 1: allegedly incoherent and disoriented. Then they uncover that the mom

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Speaker 1: sent her three year old to daycare alone using lift.

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Speaker 1: If there was any confusion that she has sent the

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Speaker 1: eight year old to school alone, no, no, let's be clear.

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Speaker 1: It was the three year old top girl that was

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Speaker 1: sent alone with a man they've never seen before and

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Speaker 1: their lies. They don't know him. From Adam's housecat to

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Speaker 1: who knows where daycare? We hope have you ever heard

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Speaker 1: of such a thing? Every day there's a brand new

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Speaker 1: way to mistreat your child, isn't there. Let me introduce

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Speaker 1: to you an all star panel to make sense of

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Speaker 1: it all. First of all, James shell Nutt, twenty seven

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Speaker 1: years Metro major case including swat now lawyer at shell

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Speaker 1: Nutt Law Firm dot com. Renowned clinical psychiatrists and I

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Speaker 1: mean renowned professor behavioral Medicine at Truro College. Doctor Jeff

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Speaker 1: Guardier dot com, author of the Causes of Autism and

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Speaker 1: I think several other books on Amazon. Cheryl McCollum, director

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Speaker 1: of the Cold Case Research Institute and crime scene Expert.

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Speaker 1: Special guests are joining me Daphne Young, National chief Communications

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Speaker 1: officer at one of my favorite organizations, Childhelp dot Org.

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Speaker 1: But first to the lead news anchor W Dbo Ray Kaputo, Ray,

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Speaker 1: it never ends, it never ends. I used to think,

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Speaker 1: Ray Kaputo, as I would sit in court, what's in

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Speaker 1: a while to see Cheryl McCollum wander through as a witness.

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Speaker 1: I would sit in court and I see about one

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Speaker 1: hundred new felons every week from me to figure out

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Speaker 1: do I try them? Do I plead them? Do I

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Speaker 1: cut them loose? Not likely? And I would think, well,

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Speaker 1: I ever see anything new under the sun? Will ever end? Well? Obviously,

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Speaker 1: thank you Stephanie got Do, thirty four year old victim's

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Speaker 1: mother for proving it never will end. What happened? Ray Nan.

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Speaker 1: This is in Manchester, New Hampshire, northern New England, and

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Speaker 1: this is the first Monday in the new year. Wait,

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Speaker 1: an a lot of people wait, wait, you know where

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Speaker 1: I want to start? Where is this Manchester? And New Hampshire.

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Speaker 1: What is that? Is it residential? Is it all high rises?

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Speaker 1: When you say New England, I have these thoughts in

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Speaker 1: like the front of a Christmas card and a little

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Speaker 1: village and snow, maybe a ski slope in the back.

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Speaker 1: What is Manchester, New Hampshire. I wouldn't say that it's

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Speaker 1: that idealistic, but it's the biggest metro area in northern

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Speaker 1: New England. It's not far from Boston. It's like, I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't call it a college time, but there are several colleges.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of young people and you know,

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Speaker 1: bottom line, it's a nice affordable place to live if

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Speaker 1: you don't mind a little snow and cold in the winter.

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Speaker 1: So when you say you wouldn't call it a collegetown,

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Speaker 1: which colleges isn't there? I know that there's a community college.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a Southern New Hampshire College and there's

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Speaker 1: another one. So there's like three colleges right in that

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Speaker 1: town and not far from Boston, not far from Boston

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Speaker 1: at all. Say when you say Boston, that conjures images

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Speaker 1: from me of the Freedom Trail, the Parker House where

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Speaker 1: JFK proposed to Jackie Parker House, Rolls, Betsy Ross l

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Speaker 1: North Church, all good things, right, So it's hard for

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Speaker 1: me to get my mind around where this is. And

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Speaker 1: also it's very important to me, Ray Kiputo, where the

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Speaker 1: child was picked up. You go ahead, go ahead with

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Speaker 1: your story. Yeah, well it was a Monday after years,

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Speaker 1: so the child just picked up right at their house,

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Speaker 1: right right at their house in a residential area. The

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Speaker 1: daycare is actually not far away. But the problem was

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Speaker 1: is a lift driver, a person who had no known

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Speaker 1: affiliation for that family, a complete stranger if you will,

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Speaker 1: was the one that picked up that child and brought

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Speaker 1: the little girl to dcare on Monday after New Year.

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Speaker 1: I've just learned something about Manchester, New Hampshire. It's small.

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Speaker 1: The entire metro area if you could call it that,

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Speaker 1: as one hundred and nine thousand people. I grew up

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Speaker 1: outside of a city, making Georgia, in an unincorporated area

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Speaker 1: which was all rural and the population was I don't

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Speaker 1: know maybe about that at the time. That's a very

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Speaker 1: small community and that's significant why Cheryl McCollum Nancy has

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Speaker 1: signifted it. Because this club is central to this location,

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Speaker 1: meaning the drugs in the area, the other sex offenders

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Speaker 1: in the area. All of this is going to come

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Speaker 1: into play when this woman this child into a lift

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Speaker 1: with no care and continuing, what's going to happen after

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Speaker 1: that car pool aways a whole You know, to doctor

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Speaker 1: Jeff Gardier, renowned clinical psychologist, professor behavioral medicine, Doctor Jeff,

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Speaker 1: you and I've covered a lot of cases together. We've

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Speaker 1: studied a lot of cases. Have you noticed that people

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Speaker 1: seem to think they have a familiarity with people they

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Speaker 1: don't even know. For instance, the guy, the cashier at

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Speaker 1: the grocery store, the delivery person, the person you see

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Speaker 1: on TV. You think you know them. I think that

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Speaker 1: I actually know certain people that I've watched for a

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Speaker 1: really long time on TV, and then I find out, no,

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Speaker 1: they did something crazy, And it's hard to take in.

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Speaker 1: What I'm getting at is just because you order up

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Speaker 1: a lift on your cell phone, you don't know that

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Speaker 1: person absolutely. And let me tell you that there have

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Speaker 1: been incidents where people have been attacked by some of

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Speaker 1: these private companies that you get on your phone, and

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Speaker 1: they have been very dangerous situations. Even though my understanding

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Speaker 1: is companies like Lift and Uber and others do very

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Speaker 1: strict screening, do training. There are rules that the drivers

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Speaker 1: have to follow, but it's a wild card. You never

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Speaker 1: know who the person is who is unstable. And we

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Speaker 1: also notice the luck of the draw as to who

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Speaker 1: you get as a driver. It's not like you get

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Speaker 1: the same driver every time. So certainly putting a child

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Speaker 1: in a car with an adult and an adult you

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Speaker 1: don't know is very dangerous. And let me wrap that

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Speaker 1: up by saying, I have put my seventeen or eighteen

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Speaker 1: year old in cars with a lift or uber driver,

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Speaker 1: but I made sure that I was also in the

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Speaker 1: car too, because I just don't trust that process. You mean,

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Speaker 1: you ride along with them, or you went to the car,

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Speaker 1: you look at the driver and all that. I rode

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Speaker 1: along in the car with them, And I've also looked

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Speaker 1: at the driver for the eighteen year old, looked at

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Speaker 1: the driver, spoke to the driver, knew who the driver was,

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Speaker 1: and made sure that I tracked the driver all the way.

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Speaker 1: And even then, it's not one hundred percent safe. So

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Speaker 1: doing this with a three year old is absolutely not

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Speaker 1: just dangerous but crazy irresponsible. Time Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,

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Speaker 1: we are talking about a three year old little talk

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Speaker 1: girl being put in a lift with a man mommy

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Speaker 1: has never seen in her life much less than three

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Speaker 1: year old to send her to daycare. Just let that

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Speaker 1: sink in for a moment. Speaking lift drivers, take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our new friend Torsten, and experienced driver for

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Speaker 1: both Uber and Lift truly blown away that this lift

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Speaker 1: driver would actually take a little three year old boy

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Speaker 1: to a day care center alone. Right, should have refused

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Speaker 1: this mother in the first place. And shame on the

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Speaker 1: mother for just trying to send a three year old

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Speaker 1: off with some strange lift driver that she doesn't even know. Right,

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Speaker 1: it's not even accompanying her child. Both have to face charges,

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Speaker 1: not just the mother. You know you've got You've got

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Speaker 1: to set standards here. People know what they signed up

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Speaker 1: with for Lift and Uber and that clearly clearly breaks

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Speaker 1: the lot. You know, I have done some research as

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Speaker 1: I found out about this mother putting her child or

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Speaker 1: three year old little girl on a lift driver, research

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Speaker 1: into attacks alleged attacks by lift and Uber drivers. And

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Speaker 1: we use Uber a lot, a lot, But with me,

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Speaker 1: I use Uber. If I have one of the twins

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Speaker 1: who are now thirteen, I'm with them. Like Jeff Gardier

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Speaker 1: just said, deaths attributed to Uber and lyft. Woman dies

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Speaker 1: after being struck by Uber Uber driver North Philadelphia, Florida.

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Speaker 1: Crash victims family files negligent's lawsuit against Seminole County Uber driver.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Uber shoots and kills six people one to

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Speaker 1: two others Uber driver Pedestrians struck by Uber driver. Uber

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Speaker 1: and Uber drivers suited for a negligent after collision kills passenger,

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Speaker 1: wrongful death, blah blah blah, being run, Ober attacked, hit,

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Speaker 1: dragged down the street. I mean, I haven't even gotten

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Speaker 1: past the first paragraph. These are alleged incidents by drivers,

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Speaker 1: and it could be Uber, it could be Lived, it

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Speaker 1: could be any one of the ride for pay drivers.

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Speaker 1: The point is, why would you put your three year

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Speaker 1: old child in the care of someone you've never met before,

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Speaker 1: never laid eyes on them. Straight out to Daphne Young,

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Speaker 1: our special guests joining us the National Chief Communications Officer

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Speaker 1: with Childhelp dot Org, Daphanie. So often we read about

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Speaker 1: babysitters and nanny's from hell that beat, torture, abuse, or

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Speaker 1: kill a child. How is this different? There, you're trusting

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Speaker 1: a babysitter or nanny. Here, you're trusting a man who statistically,

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Speaker 1: males commit more violent acts than women. With your baby girl,

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Speaker 1: who's to say he's not going to drive off with

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Speaker 1: her and never be seen again. Well, this is absolutely horrific,

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Speaker 1: and to put your child in the hands of any

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Speaker 1: string or just defies logic. But I'm going to go

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Speaker 1: at one step further and say the danger was coming

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Speaker 1: from inside the house. And we know that the majority

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Speaker 1: of abuse is by someone the child knows. And looking

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Speaker 1: at this story, looking at these mugshots, doing a little

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Speaker 1: research into this area, you had an entire community, you know,

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Speaker 1: as you were discussing where are they located? I also

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Speaker 1: thought was this a rural farmhouse? And it was a

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Speaker 1: complex with neighbors, and there was a playground across the street,

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Speaker 1: And I thought, how many eyes have been on these children?

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Speaker 1: How many people have seen this disheveled figure walking through

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Speaker 1: the neighborhood or push shoving a child in a lift

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Speaker 1: in an area where in a small town where neighbors talked.

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Speaker 1: And it bothered me to no end that this mother

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Speaker 1: did this act, that this lift driver took the child

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Speaker 1: and apparently didn't just go straight to a police station.

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Speaker 1: But there's so many people that I hope made a

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Speaker 1: call or reported this circumstance because this is not a

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Speaker 1: one off. You do not shove your child in an

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Speaker 1: uber in a urine soaked blanket as a one off. Guys,

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Speaker 1: I want to go to raik computer on this WDBO.

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Speaker 1: How did find out about the woman basically farmer three

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Speaker 1: year old little girl out to a lift driver. Well,

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Speaker 1: this is the scary part. It wasn't the actual act

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Speaker 1: of the lift driver bringing the kids to school. It

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Speaker 1: was like two days later when miss Godu didn't take

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Speaker 1: up her kids from school. She just left him at daycare.

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Speaker 1: So the daycare calls police and Mom's not picking up

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Speaker 1: these two kids, and that's when police go to the

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Speaker 1: house and at that moment learned about the lift driver

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Speaker 1: bringing the other child to school on a Monday. So

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Speaker 1: it wasn't the day that had happened. It was like

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Speaker 1: two days later that police catch window of it. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if mommy would have even known if the

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Speaker 1: baby didn't come home that day at all. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our friends at crime online dot Com. Officers

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Speaker 1: had a major concern. After visiting Stephanie Gordo's home, they

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Speaker 1: found her month old baby strapped to an infant carrier seat.

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Speaker 1: The child was wearing extremely warm clothing and covered with

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Speaker 1: a blanket. What's more, there reports that the carrier was

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Speaker 1: not more than six feet away from a heater. There

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Speaker 1: were concerns that the child could overheat. The child was

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Speaker 1: also found to be soaked in urine. The condition of

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Speaker 1: the infant and the unsupervised right to daycare led police

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Speaker 1: to charge godd The child also found soaked in a urine.

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Speaker 1: James Shellnut twenty seven years Metro major case including Swat

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Speaker 1: now lawyer at Shelnut Law Firm dot com. James, how

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Speaker 1: many times did you go to a crime saying as

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Speaker 1: a cap and look around and just see the children

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Speaker 1: in squalor MENI times you walk into an apartment or

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Speaker 1: walk into the home and it's just unbelievable that people

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Speaker 1: can live like that. And you got these in the

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Speaker 1: victims of these innocent little children who they have no

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Speaker 1: control over it. They're forced to live in this Environment's heartbreaking,

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Speaker 1: you know what, Cheryl McCullum. My grandmother Lucy helped raise me.

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Speaker 1: When my mother would go to work. She lived in

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Speaker 1: a wooden house on old farm with a rusty tin roof.

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Speaker 1: My great grandmother lived in a mobile home, a trailer

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Speaker 1: pulled up on the farm property. And I've never seen

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Speaker 1: floors and tables as clean as they were. And my

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Speaker 1: grandmother's and my Grannie's house. I remember going over to

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Speaker 1: my Grannie's house. A little bitty lady I always wore

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Speaker 1: a white apron with her hair back in a bum.

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Speaker 1: And I would thread needles for her because she still sewed,

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Speaker 1: but she couldn't see to thread the needles, and I

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Speaker 1: would thread twenty or thirty needles and then poke them

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Speaker 1: into a pincushion. It looked like a tomato for her.

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Speaker 1: And God help whoever tracked dirt, left dust anything in

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Speaker 1: either one of those two homes. And my grandmother would

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Speaker 1: even sweep the walkway leading up to her front porch,

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Speaker 1: front porch, as it was an old wooden home with

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Speaker 1: a rusty tin roof. Now, if they could provide that clean,

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Speaker 1: loving home for us, why is this child left soaked

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Speaker 1: in urine, strapped in covered in a blanket. Buy a

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Speaker 1: space heater. You know what it came to my mind, Nancy, Bill,

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Speaker 1: was one night you and I were working as domestic

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Speaker 1: in Thomas Hille. Oh Lord, if we got there the

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Speaker 1: parents were just yelling and screaming at each other still,

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Speaker 1: and each one was trying to tell their side and

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Speaker 1: how the other one had done great harm to them.

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Speaker 1: There was a little fella sitting on the floor playing

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Speaker 1: with a matchbox truck and he just like, you know,

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Speaker 1: making the sounds of a truck, and he just playing.

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Speaker 1: And what struck you and I was how normal this

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Speaker 1: was for him. He wasn't even affected by the police

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Speaker 1: being there, He wasn't affected by his parent jelling and screaming.

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Speaker 1: He was just playing. So again, for this child, maybe

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Speaker 1: this wasn't the first lift they took along. Maybe this

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Speaker 1: wasn't the first time the school had seen somebody they

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Speaker 1: didn't know drop the child off. They may not even

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Speaker 1: know it was a lift driver, you know. Sometimes they

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Speaker 1: just come out and take the child and welcome into school.

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Speaker 1: This might be normal for them because their mother clearly

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Speaker 1: is a drug at it crime stories with Nancy Grace, Guys,

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Speaker 1: we are talking about dodging a bullet. Dodging a bullet. Now,

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Speaker 1: maybe I've seen too much crime, maybe I've been on

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Speaker 1: too many crime scenes, but I know this. When you

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Speaker 1: send your three year old little girl off for this

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Speaker 1: stranger you are courting heartbreak and disaster. But that is

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Speaker 1: what happened. According to police, thirty four year old Stephanie

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Speaker 1: godd sends off her little top to daycare play school

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Speaker 1: with a lift driver she's never seen and cops only

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Speaker 1: find out about this by chance. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: tie our hunt at crime Online. These charges are not

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Speaker 1: the first time time Godhu has been in trouble with

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Speaker 1: the law. In twenty fifteen, an infant was found dead

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Speaker 1: in Stephanie Gadhu, then known as Stephanie Carmelo's apartment. News

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Speaker 1: reports say the woman was found on the bathroom floor,

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Speaker 1: drooling and with dilated pupils. During that investigation, police alleged

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Speaker 1: that Godu often put the baby in the care of

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Speaker 1: her eight year old daughter. She was also accused of

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Speaker 1: putting a blanket over the infant's face on several occasions.

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Speaker 1: WMU R nine reported court documents as stating the eight

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Speaker 1: year old was expected to feed, change, and care for

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Speaker 1: the baby overnight. Godu was never specifically charged with her

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Speaker 1: newborn's twenty fifteen death, but was charged with two counts

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Speaker 1: of endangering the welfare of a child and one count

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Speaker 1: of requist conduct. You know What I don't understand right there,

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Speaker 1: Ray Kiputo w Dbo, is why on that occasion Stephanie

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Speaker 1: Gadou was not charged. It's murder. I know everybody in

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Speaker 1: the study I was shuddering that I said murder. But

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Speaker 1: it's felony murder when you are in the act of

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Speaker 1: a felony, in this case, felony child neglect, and a

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Speaker 1: death occurs, whether you meant the child to die or not.

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Speaker 1: If a death occurs during a felony, that's felony murder.

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Speaker 1: Why does she still have children in the home with her? Well, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: your guess is as good as mine, and the only

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Speaker 1: thing I could speculate is that you know these people

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Speaker 1: who come in and look at the parents and decide

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Speaker 1: whether they're going to take their parent or rights away.

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Speaker 1: That's a big deal and it's a cost of benefit.

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Speaker 1: Is the cost of pulling kids away from their parents?

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Speaker 1: Who got dead baby? Are you actually did he actually say?

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Speaker 1: Did he say the words cost benefit analysis? Did you

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Speaker 1: say that, Ray, computer? Because Jackie does not want to

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Speaker 1: wrap you out a cost analysis with a dead baby?

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Speaker 1: I did, But let me be clear, I think this

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Speaker 1: woman should have never seen another child. She had never

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Speaker 1: seen the life of day, much less another child. There

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Speaker 1: you go again, Daphne Young, National Chief Communications also Childhelp

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Speaker 1: dot Org. I will scream it out in the wilderness

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Speaker 1: yet again. I might as well roll the window down

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Speaker 1: on Third Avenue and yelling out the window. But CPS

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Speaker 1: leaves another child in a home. You've got a mom

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Speaker 1: not picking up her children, not taking them, ignoring them

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Speaker 1: as you described earlier, what neighbors saw, what, and now

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Speaker 1: we find out there is a dead baby in her history. Absolutely, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: You know you're good friends with our founders, Sarah and

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Speaker 1: Yvon who've been doing this work for over sixty years,

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Speaker 1: and one of their great heartbreaks when you talk to

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Speaker 1: them is the system. Time and time again, they said,

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Speaker 1: we can do everything. We can. Bring these children in

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Speaker 1: covered in lice and scabies and dirt, clean them, care

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Speaker 1: for them, give them therapy, nurture them. But if you

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Speaker 1: have kids that keep getting back into the system, keep

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Speaker 1: getting back to those parents, if there's not enough oversight

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Speaker 1: at the law don't change, then we have no legal

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Speaker 1: right to hold them, despite getting every lawyer and every

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Speaker 1: doctor and everybody we can possibly put on the case.

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Speaker 1: And it is heartbreaking. That's why we're so adamant about

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Speaker 1: doing amazing interviews and making sure that they are fail safe.

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Speaker 1: Though when we get that case to a lawyer, they

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Speaker 1: have everything they need to nail them to the wall,

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Speaker 1: because it breaks our heart when a kid comes back

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Speaker 1: through that system time and time again. You just increase

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Speaker 1: the chance for that child to one day show up

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Speaker 1: as a statistic the one in five kids that die

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Speaker 1: every day from abuse. One in five children, You know,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, I dream of a day when CPS, Child

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Speaker 1: protect With Services Defects Department Family Children Services are hell

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Speaker 1: responsible for leaving children like this in a home. Can

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Speaker 1: you imagine leaving your baby in the care of an

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Speaker 1: eight year old child share? You know. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you remember this, but I used to tell the

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Speaker 1: children when they were little, turn the lights. No, no, no.

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Speaker 1: It was worse than me just telling them. I would

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Speaker 1: make David, my husband, sneak out and ring the doorbell

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Speaker 1: at eight o'clock and go it's DFACTS Department Family Shoulder Services.

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Speaker 1: They know you're still awake. Do you want mommy arrested

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Speaker 1: for child neglect? Now get in the bed right now

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Speaker 1: and cut the light off. If they see the light on.

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Speaker 1: They don't know you're in the bedroom with the light on.

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Speaker 1: And I remember that, Say, Mommy, do they walk around

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Speaker 1: the house and look? And I'm like, yes, of course

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Speaker 1: they do. And I happened to pull up a picture.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember the child Catcher on What was the movie?

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Speaker 1: Was it Chivy Chivy Bang Bang? Yes? And I happened

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Speaker 1: to insinuate that that was DFAX looking for children that

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Speaker 1: were out on their own. And and last, thank goodness,

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Speaker 1: it lasted a long time. When they were up in

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Speaker 1: the fourth and fifth grade, I'm like, we've got to

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Speaker 1: wash your hair. Fhly, mom. If de facts finds out

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Speaker 1: that I'm sending you to school without your hair washed

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Speaker 1: and shiny, they'll arrest mommy. You put her in jail

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Speaker 1: for child neglect. Oh, how I wish you know. Forget

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Speaker 1: about the hair washing and the staying up late, what

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Speaker 1: about the mistreated children. I mean, how could they not

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Speaker 1: take the children away from this mother? Once they find

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Speaker 1: one dead baby in the home, I think it's going

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Speaker 1: to be a simple search of her left activity. Talking

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Speaker 1: to people at the school, I'm gonna tell again this

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Speaker 1: hit the first time that child took a trip and

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Speaker 1: a lift by the self. Can you imagine, at three

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Speaker 1: years old, find time to put Lucy in a car

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Speaker 1: by herself to go somewhere she would have had a fetch.

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Speaker 1: She would still be talking about that. She would still

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Speaker 1: be talking about that traumaticking experience. And you know another

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Speaker 1: thing that Cheryl mcculluugh mentioned earlier to you, Doctor Jeff Gardier,

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Speaker 1: board certified clinical psychologists joining me out of New York

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Speaker 1: today is the sense I'm normal see. She described as

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Speaker 1: saying that she and I saw early in our careers

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Speaker 1: of a child just sitting there playing with his car

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Speaker 1: while as parents, after we were already on the scene,

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Speaker 1: we're still yelling and screaming. Doctor Gardier. Did you ever

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Speaker 1: see Cops, the show Cops, Yeah, okay, there would be

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Speaker 1: a scene where there'd be a guy sitting on his

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Speaker 1: easy chair drinking a beer, watching TV, and suddenly swat

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Speaker 1: would break in and start running through the house and

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Speaker 1: he would just sit there, still watching TV, drinking his beer.

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Speaker 1: And that always struck me that he didn't think there

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Speaker 1: was anything unusual about that because it was so normal.

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Speaker 1: It was sop standard operating procedure. How many times have

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Speaker 1: these children been abused neglected or mistreated, not fed, not bathed.

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Speaker 1: How many times have this baby been less soaked in

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Speaker 1: urine for hours on ants, strapped in a car seat

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Speaker 1: by a space heater. How many times had they been

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Speaker 1: ignored until it was sp Well, what we're really seeing

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Speaker 1: here is the level of damage that these parents have

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Speaker 1: their pathology in that what we call in psychology egosyntonic,

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Speaker 1: meaning they just go along to get along. They don't

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Speaker 1: see anything is wrong, and so when they are approached

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Speaker 1: by neighbors or by child protective services, they're like, what what, No,

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Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong here, Everything is okay. But that speaks

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Speaker 1: to the pathology where they're not able to recognize that

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Speaker 1: they are involved in child abuse child neglect, and therefore

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Speaker 1: they don't ask for help in some ways. And I

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Speaker 1: know this is going to sound strange, Nancy, but thank

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Speaker 1: god that you called that lift driver, because that sent

427
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: a clear signal to someone, Hey, something is going on

428
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: in this house. We need to find out what's happening,

429
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: because this abuse in the home could have gone on

430
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 1: for years and years and years and no one would

431
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 1: have known. And I just don't know how the system

432
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 1: failed the children in that house. After that first incident

433
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: where someone was found dead in her home. Time Stories

434
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace guys Hey. Thirty four year old mother

435
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: sends her three year old baby girl with a man

436
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: she never met, a lift driver to drop off at

437
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: daycare while mommy what late home in the bottle? Who knows?

438
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: But it's not the first time cases like this have

439
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: made headlines. Take a listen to our friends at WWL.

440
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: New Orleans. A New Orleans bounce artist was arrested in

441
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: Saint Bernard Parish after she allegedly sent her five year

442
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: old child alone in a ride sharing service. Rihanna Oliver,

443
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: a bounce artist known as Game of a Ready, took

444
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: the driver, told the driver rather to take the child

445
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: from a home and shall met to a school in

446
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: New Orleans. The driver told Oliver that he could not

447
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: give a ride to a child without an adult, but

448
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: she went back inside the hall. The driver then took

449
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: the child to the Saint Bernard's Sheriff substation in Araby.

450
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: Oliver was booked with child desertion. Child desertion. James Shellnutt,

451
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: twenty seven years met Major kse Swat Now lawyer James

452
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: Shellnutt explained the desertion charge. Well, you know, you've got

453
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: several different types of abuse that is legal. You've got

454
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: active abuse, which is where we commonly think of as

455
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: someone you know, punching or hitting a child or physically

456
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: sexually abusing a child. And then you have passive abuse

457
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: that can be illegal as well, which is failed to

458
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: provide proper care and adequate supervision for a child. And

459
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: that's what that would fall in. Uys. Take a listen

460
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: to the host of breakfast Club Power one oh five

461
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: point one FM, Charlemagne game overready listening. We live in

462
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: this era where child trafficking is at an all time

463
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 1: high in America. Oh, I don't know if it's at

464
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: an all time high, but I do know one point

465
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: two million people are trafficking trafficked each year. Okay, why

466
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: are you making it easy for them? All right, there's

467
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: nothing a five year old is capable of doing without

468
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: adult supervision. Not to mention the way my anxiety is

469
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: set up, the way my PARENTI paranoia works, the way

470
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: I constantly worry about the safety of all three of

471
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: my children. I need to know how you, as a parent,

472
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: felt comfortable putting your five year old in a lift

473
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: with a total scrange. That's what the driver was. Well, Charloma,

474
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: ain't those breakfast club power is absolutely right. Yeah it

475
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: has happened again. Straight back out to Daphne Young, national

476
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: chief communications officer with one of my favorite organizations, childhelp

477
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: dot Org. He's right. Tell me about child sex trafficking. Well,

478
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: the scary thing is your child has a better chance

479
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: to be trafficked by someone. You know, someone in that household,

480
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: one of the rotating boyfriends that comes in when somebody's

481
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: a drug addict. Well wait, wait, wait, there's nobody rotating

482
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: in this house. Oh, nobody's rotating? What not my house?

483
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: I make a shot. The front door to you is

484
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: not Nancy Grace here, But I'm talking about you know,

485
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,479
Speaker 1: when these child children are at risk. You know, one

486
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: of the things that you probably model strongly for your

487
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: kids is parental resilience. They know mommy's story, they know

488
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: to some degree, they know what you been through, They

489
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,479
Speaker 1: know your advocacy. So in a sense, you start to

490
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: imp you impart that strength to them. When a child

491
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: is with a parent that is falling down, drunk, a

492
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: drug addict who maybe even considers themselves a victim and

493
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: maybe of domestic violence, and other elements. These kids are

494
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,959
Speaker 1: are so unresilient and they start off with all these deficits,

495
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: and then you have you know, who knows what kind

496
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: of boyfriends or drug deliveries come around and they look

497
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: for those vulnerable children. They look for a mother whose

498
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,959
Speaker 1: hair is disheveled, eyes are bleary, and is falling down drunk,

499
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: and they know, I've got hours with these kids while

500
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: she's passed out. So I actually am less afraid of

501
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: I'm totally afraid of all the strangers that they're you know,

502
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: where people put their kids in danger like that, But

503
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: I'm less afraid of that list driver who is doing

504
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: regular job, especially the one that took that child directly

505
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: to the Sheriff's office. That one's a hero. And I'm

506
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: aim more afraid of mom, the boyfriends who she's meeting online,

507
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: who she's getting drug deliveries from, who she's leading her

508
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: kids with, an eight year old at home with a

509
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: little child, and a neighbor knows about it. These are

510
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: crimes of opportunity that these children are open to, and

511
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: it breaks my heart. Take a listen again to our

512
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: friends Charlemagne at breakfast Club Power one or five point

513
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: one FM. She said she wasn't feeling well and said

514
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: that she had been told that it was okay to

515
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: do that. All right. Here's the thing about being a parent.

516
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: And I can only speak on this because I am

517
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: indeed a parent. It's not about you, all right. You

518
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: don't get six days when you're a parent. And VM

519
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: my line. No, Okay, yesterday I tried to lay around

520
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: the house all day for my three year old wasn't

521
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: having it. Okay. My daughter wanted to play Nintendo. I

522
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: gotta play Nintendo. My daughter wants to play people Pete

523
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: board game. I gotta play people Pete board game. My

524
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: daughter wants to play Barbie Dreamhouse. I gotta play Barbie Dreamhouse. Okay.

525
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: The Marlin story is no matter how tired I was,

526
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: no matter how I was feeling, what my child wanted

527
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: to do? Game first game over? Ready, That's what being

528
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: a parent is all about. Okay, if you didn't feel well,

529
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: call the lift, get in with your child, make sure

530
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: your child gets to school, and then have to LI

531
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: bring you back home. What's so difficult about that? What

532
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 1: is so difficult about that? But guess what it happens

533
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 1: all the time. Take a listen to Chelsea Edwards News

534
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: ten killing Texas Uber and Lyft drivers tell us they

535
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,399
Speaker 1: get regular requests from nearby schools during the day when

536
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: school lets out. I guarantee you people are telling uber

537
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: lyft to go pick up their kids. It might be

538
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 1: a matter of convenience or lack of options. Some of

539
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: the drivers may not report it because they want you know,

540
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: that's their income. He drives for both services and doesn't

541
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: want to show his face. He says he's even had

542
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: to call a mom at three in the morning when

543
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: her thirteen year old requested a ride hern and mother

544
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: was angry with me because she was going to have

545
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: to get her clothes on and miss her TV show

546
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: to come get her daughter. Mattor Raycipudo b DBO. What

547
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: is the evidence, if any, that this mother had anything

548
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: to do with drugs or alcohol. Well, I mean, look

549
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: at her mugshot, Nancy. She looks to shovel. But we

550
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: have all kinds of reports that she's incoherent, that she

551
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: just she wasn't acted right. So I mean, I don't

552
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: have toxology results any forced her to get drug tester

553
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 1: get a bruntalizer, but clearly she's on something and my

554
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,720
Speaker 1: guess would be alcohol and possibly a combination of maybe

555
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 1: prescription pills. Well, we can speculate until we're blue in

556
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 1: the face, Like I said at the get Go, But

557
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: we don't know this mother was under the influence of

558
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 1: drugs or alcohol at the time. But we do know

559
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: she had the wherewithal to call lift to pick up

560
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 1: her three year old child. Back to Sean mccollin, director

561
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: of the Coal Case Research Institute and crime scene expert,

562
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 1: you know what situations like you. I mean, I've had

563
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: cases where grandma lets the child play in the front

564
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: yard and they're grabbed, they're taking they're killed. Cases where

565
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: let's talk about Adam Walsh. He was a couple of

566
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: rows over from his mom and a sears and he

567
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: ended up taken and murdered. Let's look at Cherish. These

568
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 1: are off the top of my head, cherished Periwinkle. Her

569
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 1: mom is a good Samaritan in a Walmart superstore and

570
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: they go to the front of the store to get

571
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: the hamburgers within the store. She's never seen alive again.

572
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: It's people that you think you have some connection with,

573
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: but you don't have a connection with the lift driver. No,

574
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 1: But I want to be real clear. The lift driver

575
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: did the right thing. He protected the child. The mama

576
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 1: is the one that has failed to child. And I'll

577
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,399
Speaker 1: tell you something else. We don't even know that she's

578
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: the one that did the lift driver. It could have

579
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: been eight year old or'll be eleven year old that

580
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 1: did that old mamma's cell phone. Well, you know what

581
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: you're right about that Both of my children know how

582
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: to use my phone to get an uber. They know

583
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: how to do that. Are self sufficient. If they are

584
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 1: going to eat, they make it. If they're gonna get

585
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: to school, they figure out how to do it. Because

586
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 1: Mama is m iag and I paid something else. If

587
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: this was Nancy Grace's case, I know something that would

588
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: happen in that courtroom. Mama in two fifteen became a

589
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: nurses assistant, and I know that you would blow that

590
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 1: certificate up big as Dallas and let everybody in the

591
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,760
Speaker 1: courtroom look at it, because everybody in God and country

592
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,240
Speaker 1: needs to know not only does Mama no better, she's

593
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: been trained to care for other people. Guys, I'm gonna

594
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: leave you with something significant. Take us to our cup

595
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: thirteen from k etv Omaha. It is shocking even seasoned

596
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,720
Speaker 1: law enforcement officers are stunned the thirteen year old Kansas

597
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,839
Speaker 1: girl ended up at the ellew home of registered sex

598
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: offender Nicholas Avery for a young child, a thirteen year

599
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 1: old to get into a stranger's vehicle in the middle

600
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 1: of the night and be transported for hours into a

601
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: different state. Bellevue police say thirty four year old Avery

602
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: met the girl on social media sites and that he

603
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: ordered and paid for the ride with Lift, a trip

604
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: that was almost two hundred miles across state lines. You're

605
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: charged with the felony account. Avery appeared before a Sarpee

606
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: County judge Monday, charged with first degree sexual assault of

607
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: a child. The Shawnee County, Kansas Sheriff's office tells me

608
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: it is investigating the Lift driver. It's unclear what happened

609
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: between the girl and the driver and why she ended

610
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: up in Nebraska. Lift and Aber claim they do not

611
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: sir policy not to allow solo riders under eighteen, But

612
00:38:53,200 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: obviously it's happening. Thirteen year old girl delivered on a

613
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: silver platter to a register sex offender. That's what I'm

614
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: talking about. We wait as just as unfalls. Nancy Gray's

615
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,720
Speaker 1: crime story signing off goodbye friend,