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Speaker 1: your podcasts. I am David Rodgers. I was an editor,
Speaker 1: director and producer on the Office. Well, hello there, one
Speaker 1: and all all of you, I'm talking to you there.
Speaker 1: Welcome to this week's episode of the Office Deep Dive.
Speaker 1: I am your host, Brian Baumgartner today, I am thrilled.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm pleased as punch, as they say, to bring
Speaker 1: on the man who worked well. He worked tirelessly on
Speaker 1: the Office. I don't think he slept at home for
Speaker 1: ten years. So he worked to keep the show as fresh, authentic,
Speaker 1: and well hilarious is possible. And listen his decisions. They
Speaker 1: actually changed the way that um one view the show
Speaker 1: because he was the person who would decide what would
Speaker 1: stay and what would go, and how we would see
Speaker 1: an experience it all. He was our ridiculously talented editor
Speaker 1: and later are ridiculously talented producer and director David Rogers,
Speaker 1: or as I and everyone I know calls him Dave. Now,
Speaker 1: Dave was actually the very first editor brought onto the
Speaker 1: Office team. And listen, he was more than just a
Speaker 1: colleague a co worker. He was actually a true fan
Speaker 1: of the show from day one. He had has and
Speaker 1: had an encyclopedia knowledge of the show. He remembered every
Speaker 1: moment from every episode. I feel like he was the
Speaker 1: reason Dwight loved Battlestar Galactica. He helped Meredith get hit
Speaker 1: by a car, and he even had his own nicknames
Speaker 1: for the cast, like just guess who was called to
Speaker 1: blu roon. No, it wasn't me, uh Dave. Also, he's
Speaker 1: a force in the world of TV. The Office won
Speaker 1: five Emmy's total, two of those went to Dave. He's
Speaker 1: become a trusted collaborator for so many who worked on
Speaker 1: the show. He went on to work with Mindy Kaling
Speaker 1: on The Mendy Project, and Greg Daniels and Steve Carrell
Speaker 1: on Space Force, among many others. You may also recognize
Speaker 1: him for his well distinctive voice. He was the voice
Speaker 1: behind dunder Mifflin's very own documentarian. But before we get
Speaker 1: into the meat of this interview, and before I let
Speaker 1: you relive the show through his words, I wanted to
Speaker 1: let you know that you can also relive the show
Speaker 1: through our our brand new book, Welcome to dunder Mifflin,
Speaker 1: The Ultimate Oral History of the Office, which you can
Speaker 1: pre order on Amazon right now. So go ahead do that,
Speaker 1: trust me, you're gonna love it. Then come back here,
Speaker 1: because the time has come for you to be carried
Speaker 1: away by the incredible wealth of knowledge that is Dave Rogers,
Speaker 1: Bubble and squeak I love it. Bubble and squeak on
Speaker 1: bubble and squeaker cookie every month, left over from the
Speaker 1: night before. Oh my god, oh boy, wow, you look
Speaker 1: exactly the same. Do you want to know what? You know?
Speaker 1: You don't say that. Everyone keeps saying it that I
Speaker 1: look exactly you know. I mean, well, I wanted to
Speaker 1: say it to you first, so yeah, I usually you
Speaker 1: wouldn't say it to me. Good to see you too.
Speaker 1: It's like way too long, I know, are you going
Speaker 1: to sit over there? Okay, I mean that's the rule. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I saw Mr Correll yesterday. Yeah, yes, he seemed good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's been in he's been in editing a lot, he has. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't think I realized that he and Greg wrote
Speaker 1: the pilot, created it together. I think Steve had the
Speaker 1: idea and then they kind of hammered out like kind
Speaker 1: of a loose thing, and then Gregg wrote it and
Speaker 1: then he would give notes and stuff, you know, and
Speaker 1: then I think that was the process. But I think
Speaker 1: I think Steve had the idea and it came to
Speaker 1: Greg and was like, hey, what do you think about that?
Speaker 1: So yeah, let's let's do it, and then they that
Speaker 1: was it they pitched and you know, how's Malkovich. He's good,
Speaker 1: He's good. It's uh. You know. One of the things
Speaker 1: that we're striving to do is have this kind of
Speaker 1: dual you know, they they due a little bit, they
Speaker 1: joust like they're friendly and but there's some jousting and
Speaker 1: things like that. We're struggling to create new relationships that
Speaker 1: are different from Michael Scott because he has like one
Speaker 1: assistant and it's like or like his secretary. And he
Speaker 1: was saying, he's you know that he has a line
Speaker 1: where he goes, I really like to get shut up Brad,
Speaker 1: and it's like we even changed it to like thank you,
Speaker 1: Brad because it was too much like shut up Dwight.
Speaker 1: You know. So we're trying cognizant of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: The context or the character might be different, but how
Speaker 1: it's going to be perceived in some small level is
Speaker 1: going to be you're sort of built in expectation. That's fascinating.
Speaker 1: Um okay, rewinding back, Um two thousand fourish, what are
Speaker 1: you doing prior to working on the show. So I
Speaker 1: was working on the Seinfeld DVDs. You know, I came up.
Speaker 1: I was assistant editor and Seinfeld that I started cutting.
Speaker 1: I cut the clip show for that right before the
Speaker 1: series finale, and Uh, I would always kind of come
Speaker 1: back and do some Seinfeld things whenever things would pop up.
Speaker 1: So we were working on the DVDs. We were going
Speaker 1: through pulling you know, the bloopers behind the scenes and
Speaker 1: interviewing a bunch of you know, everybody from cast to crew,
Speaker 1: and making these many documentaries inside looks of all the
Speaker 1: episodes and just being really meticulous with things. So I
Speaker 1: was working on that. We we were getting the first
Speaker 1: three seasons out, and uh the line producer from News Radio,
Speaker 1: which was another show I had worked on, Ken Sibornac,
Speaker 1: said Hey, I have a pilot I think you know
Speaker 1: you'd be good for Uh. I said okay, and then
Speaker 1: uh I was like, yeah, I'd love to let's talk.
Speaker 1: And then I didn't hear back from him, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I understood. I always wanted it just to
Speaker 1: him to say, hey, the directors is going with his editor,
Speaker 1: you know, and be like, okay, that makes sense, but
Speaker 1: you've never heard back. I just I didn't hear back,
Speaker 1: and then uh, I was all right, and then I
Speaker 1: get an email from him, like I know I know,
Speaker 1: I owe you a phone call. We got picked up
Speaker 1: for five episodes. I think you'd be great for the series,
Speaker 1: you know, would you like to come in and meet
Speaker 1: Greg Daniels. I'll send you the the pilot. I was like, yeah.
Speaker 1: So I watched the pilot and I loved it, and
Speaker 1: it was so I was like, oh God, he's so
Speaker 1: it's dark, you know, and I love that. Uh. I mean,
Speaker 1: for me, it's the moment. I'm a huge six million
Speaker 1: dollar Man fan. So him doing an impression of the
Speaker 1: six million dollar Man, like referencing it and doing it.
Speaker 1: They just went on and on, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I looked at this and I go, I'm doing this show.
Speaker 1: And I came and I met with Greg and we
Speaker 1: just hit it off right away and we were talking
Speaker 1: about things and it's funny. I I was talking about
Speaker 1: all the characters, and I said, I feel like Dwight
Speaker 1: would like Battlestar Galactica. And this is before the new
Speaker 1: Battlestar Galactica. But I thought like Star Trek was too
Speaker 1: mainstream and cool for him, that he would like this
Speaker 1: kind of smaller, more cultish old show. And uh, I said,
Speaker 1: I could just I could just see him having like
Speaker 1: a viper on his desk, you know, like an old
Speaker 1: model of of a viper. And so it was funny
Speaker 1: that when the new show came up and that we
Speaker 1: they did work that in that he became a Battlestar
Speaker 1: Galactica fan. But I'm one of my birthdays. Just as
Speaker 1: a side note, like Greg bought me a huge model
Speaker 1: of a Cylon base ship like from the original series.
Speaker 1: And and in the penultimate episode, I got to direct
Speaker 1: Dwight hangs a Galactica in his office and they were like,
Speaker 1: do you want the new one or the old one.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I want the original series one, you know, totally,
Speaker 1: and I have that. I have the model and Rain
Speaker 1: signed it for me, you know. But I love he's
Speaker 1: got he's got a line with his you know, his son,
Speaker 1: who's he just he looks at the Galactica the same
Speaker 1: way I look at the Galactica. So it was just
Speaker 1: kind of it was just kind of funny how that
Speaker 1: all all came together. But yeah, I just met with Greg.
Speaker 1: We just hit it off and that was it. And
Speaker 1: then I was like, Okay, I'm hired and I'm starting
Speaker 1: on a diversity day was the first episode, and so
Speaker 1: you were the only editor hired at that point. I
Speaker 1: was the only editor hired. And I'll say this the
Speaker 1: deep the Seinfeld DVDs, Jerry and Larry came in to
Speaker 1: watch one of the documentaries that like how the show began,
Speaker 1: and Jerry saw it and was like, well, this needs
Speaker 1: to be on TV. And so then I'm working. Then
Speaker 1: we're making the Seinfeld story. So now I'm I'm I'm
Speaker 1: editing to get this thing on TV and we're starting
Speaker 1: on the office And I said, Greg, I said, there's
Speaker 1: gonna be a little bit of overlap. There are days
Speaker 1: where I'll be editing with Jerry Seinfeld, so I'll have
Speaker 1: to go there and and do that. I said, I'm
Speaker 1: finishing up, but there's gonna be some So there were
Speaker 1: a couple of days where he's like, when are you
Speaker 1: completely done? And I'm like, I'm almost done. I'm almost done,
Speaker 1: but I was there was a little overlap, but um, yeah,
Speaker 1: so I I sorry, go ahead. I started on a
Speaker 1: diversity day. Yeah, but that first season, then you're working
Speaker 1: on your finishing up the Seinfeld project and you're the
Speaker 1: only editor on the show. I was the only editor
Speaker 1: at first, and then we weren't sure when we were
Speaker 1: going to air. Originally was going to be March, and
Speaker 1: then they said there's a chance it might be you know, earlier,
Speaker 1: and Greg said, I'm not going on the air in February.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be up against everybody's huge stunt episodes.
Speaker 1: So that meant we would be on the air in January.
Speaker 1: And because of that, then there was pressure to get
Speaker 1: the episodes done. So Stu Bass, who's a veteran editor,
Speaker 1: he came in and so we were we were tag
Speaker 1: team on a few episodes. So like, I think there
Speaker 1: were somewhere I cut, There was a couple where he cut,
Speaker 1: there was somewhere he finished. You know, he like I
Speaker 1: would do the assembly and he would work with the
Speaker 1: director and vice versa. Do you feel like you got
Speaker 1: the aesthetic of the show right away? How much was
Speaker 1: Greg directing you in terms of how he wanted the
Speaker 1: show to look or feel. Um, I think I got
Speaker 1: it right away. I mean I just was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is funny. And I mean there's definitely a little
Speaker 1: difference with ending the just the style of the mockumentary
Speaker 1: and having these kind of cameras moving around. Um, we
Speaker 1: played around a lot. Definitely that first season. We spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time. You know. One of the things
Speaker 1: that was cool was that they shot you guys, I
Speaker 1: think in two different outfits. Like we could take general
Speaker 1: views of you of just like you guys sitting in
Speaker 1: the office. And even if we shot of for episode one,
Speaker 1: it also worked for episode three and episode five and
Speaker 1: then two and four. You might have had similar clothes
Speaker 1: or something like that. You know, there was something where
Speaker 1: we had general views that we could kind of steal
Speaker 1: from one episode and put into another. Um. The one
Speaker 1: thing that was knew about this kind of show than
Speaker 1: anything I had done before was usually you know, when
Speaker 1: you're editing comedy, it's like fast, fast, fast, and you're
Speaker 1: pacing it up. In here, it was like, no, we
Speaker 1: need these moments of of breath and it's holding on reactions,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's a little different than anything I
Speaker 1: had done before. But once you get into and you're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: now I know what's what we're looking for. Well, we
Speaker 1: just explored things and and tried and you know, especially
Speaker 1: even with the theme song and the main title, different things,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, we had he sent out like to
Speaker 1: the cast, he maybe sent to you like, hey, give
Speaker 1: me five songs that you guys look. So I was
Speaker 1: building different main titles, you know, twenty we did like
Speaker 1: twenty five different songs. Here was a song here, there
Speaker 1: was a song here. John Krasinski had a song from
Speaker 1: Sloan that was like this is great, um and uh.
Speaker 1: And I'd have to cut the picture though too. And
Speaker 1: it wasn't just like all right, I'll just lay the
Speaker 1: song in. So I was like cutting multiple versions of picture.
Speaker 1: But ultimately we went with you know, I think Jay
Speaker 1: Ferguson was the composer and we just his version that
Speaker 1: was the one we used. From the beginning. Were you
Speaker 1: planning on using the footage that John Krasinski shot? There
Speaker 1: was no plan, Like stuff came in and it was
Speaker 1: like okay, I'll use this and use that, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, we just there were all kinds of things.
Speaker 1: So it was like circling stuff the water cooler. You know.
Speaker 1: We were just just trying things like to make a
Speaker 1: main title and things that would hit. And you know,
Speaker 1: it was hit with the music. So when the song,
Speaker 1: when the rhythm of the song was different, it had
Speaker 1: to be totally recut. When we had different songs and
Speaker 1: and and you know, there were different versions of the
Speaker 1: main title. There's a longer version. I think for the
Speaker 1: super Bowl episode we did a longer version of the song.
Speaker 1: We did shorter versions, you know, towards the end, we
Speaker 1: would get you know, do really short versions because we
Speaker 1: needed more time for show. There's also a version and
Speaker 1: maybe it was the Super Bowl where there was just
Speaker 1: more of the cast, and then towards the after Steve left,
Speaker 1: also it was we have okay, here's a shot of
Speaker 1: Phyllis and Stanley, here's a shot of Kevin and Angela
Speaker 1: and Oscar. You know, so we would we would get
Speaker 1: more more people into the main title. Randall talked about
Speaker 1: there were rules that they had was sort of dictated,
Speaker 1: you know, by Ken's original vision and by Greg that
Speaker 1: they would not shoot a shot that is impossible to
Speaker 1: get as a documentary. Like if we came up to
Speaker 1: a house and they knocked on the door, there would
Speaker 1: not be a camera inside the house shooting out because
Speaker 1: the crew wouldn't have if we've just arrived there, there
Speaker 1: would be no camera from inside, right. But more than that,
Speaker 1: if Michael is standing at his office door and we
Speaker 1: are shooting Michael, we can't play a camera directly behind
Speaker 1: Michael because we would then shoot that cameraman in reality, right,
Speaker 1: So we were bound by the traditional rules of documentary
Speaker 1: that everything was happening in the exact moment. And I
Speaker 1: remember Randall and Matt fighting directors who were wanting the
Speaker 1: cameras to be placed you on a second pass or whatever,
Speaker 1: and them saying, no, we can't be there because we
Speaker 1: would have just filmed ourselves, right. And that's and that's
Speaker 1: the thing. And it's like you have to give time,
Speaker 1: at least even in editing. You have to give time
Speaker 1: to be like, well, this camera could have moved now
Speaker 1: and then been here, you know. I remember we're arguing
Speaker 1: with Claire Scanlon who was another editor once because she
Speaker 1: was doing something. She's like, donnaa and and Greg's like, no,
Speaker 1: you can't. And there are not seven cameras in the room,
Speaker 1: so you have to choose your angles and limbs. You know.
Speaker 1: They were just I can't even remember what the exact
Speaker 1: situation was, but we were like, yeah, no, and she
Speaker 1: was like, Dave, do you do this? I said, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is what I follow wed. You know, you have
Speaker 1: to kind of do this thing. But we yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean when you watch the cameras and you watch the editing,
Speaker 1: you'll see, for the most part, we do follow these
Speaker 1: these rules and there aren't you know, these shots in
Speaker 1: typical coverage that you would see on another show. Right.
Speaker 1: Do you did you work with the DP or camera
Speaker 1: guys at all about this or was this just sort
Speaker 1: of like understood, like everything just kind of works because
Speaker 1: you both got it. Yeah, we got it. I mean
Speaker 1: we would see what they would do and be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is you know, and there will be some communication
Speaker 1: like they would ask, hey, how's this working or how's
Speaker 1: this and you know, the shan when we would you know,
Speaker 1: someone would say something and you know, we started doing
Speaker 1: like these slight pushions and it got fun. But sometimes
Speaker 1: I felt like the show it would go a little
Speaker 1: too much like this, and I said, oh, we're we're
Speaker 1: pushing in. We're missing I think there was something once
Speaker 1: with you where you were saying something and Angela was
Speaker 1: next to you, and Angela had a sour look. The
Speaker 1: camera pushed in so much on you, and in a
Speaker 1: few of the takes you couldn't see her, like she
Speaker 1: got framed out, and it was like you have to
Speaker 1: kind of you know, I said, let's let's be aware
Speaker 1: and and so easy on that. But for the most part, no,
Speaker 1: I mean the camera, the DP and the camera work
Speaker 1: Matt Randall Sarah. I mean, they were amazing what they
Speaker 1: would get and the footage that we would we would
Speaker 1: get in there, and you know, sometimes it was just
Speaker 1: a lot of footage and it was like, all right,
Speaker 1: how do we you know, mind through this and putting
Speaker 1: the puzzle together? How do we get from this coverage
Speaker 1: to this coverage and back? And you know, when you
Speaker 1: are shooting multiple takes, obviously you know, having characters match
Speaker 1: and what they're doing, and so it was always fun,
Speaker 1: but sometimes it was hard. It's interesting. So Claire came
Speaker 1: from reality. Claire came from reality and documentaries, documentaries, and
Speaker 1: I think she may have done I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: I think she had done some scripted. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: how much comedy. And she came Actually it was like
Speaker 1: season it was into season four she came in. Uh,
Speaker 1: Dean Holland was leaving. So I so after after season one,
Speaker 1: we got picked up for six episodes of season two,
Speaker 1: so it was just me doing that and I said,
Speaker 1: if we get picked up for more, we need to
Speaker 1: get a second editor, and so we brought in Dean Holland,
Speaker 1: who was someone who I had worked with before. So
Speaker 1: it was me and him doing the episodes after that,
Speaker 1: and then he was leaving with Mike Sure to go
Speaker 1: do Parks and Wreck, at which point I said, Okay,
Speaker 1: we need to bring in some editors, and so we
Speaker 1: brought in Stu Bass again and Claire Scanlin. And Claire
Speaker 1: just I mean, she hited out of the park right away.
Speaker 1: I mean she just got it great, great sensibility. And
Speaker 1: then season the next season it was just me and
Speaker 1: Claire like we were, we were editing together and alternating
Speaker 1: its UF and uh, yeah, she was great. She just
Speaker 1: got it. A team player too. I'd help her out
Speaker 1: with stuff, She'd helped me out. I mean just just yeah,
Speaker 1: just great. Were there things that you felt like, either
Speaker 1: with you or Dean or you and Claire you can
Speaker 1: decide or maybe it was the same or different. Were
Speaker 1: there specific strength that you had that you felt like
Speaker 1: maybe you would take over this moment of an episode,
Speaker 1: even if it was hers or vice versa. Do you
Speaker 1: remember anything like that? No? I mean I will tell
Speaker 1: you something funny about the finale, but no, there was
Speaker 1: never anything like that. I mean we would just look
Speaker 1: at each other's stuff, like she would show me her that,
Speaker 1: I'd give her some feedback or notes. I'd be like,
Speaker 1: try this, and she would look at mine and say, hey,
Speaker 1: maybe if you do this. Like it was pretty open.
Speaker 1: It was great having Claire. She did bring like a
Speaker 1: sensibility and I think just being a female, like there
Speaker 1: were things that just as a male like oh, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm missing you know this kind of component, especially with
Speaker 1: some of the relationship stuff that she had, I think
Speaker 1: a more sense of of a sense about But I'll
Speaker 1: say with the finale was interesting because I think I edited,
Speaker 1: or maybe Claire edited the first half of the show,
Speaker 1: and I edited the second half, and the first half
Speaker 1: was like more I think, more comedy stuff, and the
Speaker 1: second half was like more poignant stuff. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: remember how we and and at some point Greg watched
Speaker 1: the cut and we thought it was great. It was
Speaker 1: long and it was great, and then he's like, all right,
Speaker 1: I want you guys to switch and now I want
Speaker 1: Claire to do this half and you do this in
Speaker 1: and we were like, that's insane, that's he was brilliant.
Speaker 1: I mean, it made sense like suddenly, now I was
Speaker 1: reworking some of her scenes, she was reworking some of mine.
Speaker 1: If you remember, at the end, we had this whole
Speaker 1: thing with the plant with planty and you know, yes,
Speaker 1: Claire brought up planty. Yeah, and it was the whole
Speaker 1: thing with planting. You know, she had cut it out
Speaker 1: and Greg said, no, no, you can't. You can't lose planning.
Speaker 1: We lost planning. I mean ultimately Greg was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: like it's got to go. And that's you know, and
Speaker 1: Greg and I mean, what a brilliant screw up. Though
Speaker 1: the finale was so great, so satisfying, I think as
Speaker 1: a series ender, you know, just just everything, all the
Speaker 1: things that were hit in there. You know, everybody had
Speaker 1: their their moments. It was definitely one of those things
Speaker 1: where where he had a switch. I'd have to I'm
Speaker 1: trying to remember who did who did what, But I
Speaker 1: remember like at the end, I was instrumental with the
Speaker 1: end to some degree. I ended up shooting the building.
Speaker 1: The last shot you see of the dunder Mifflin building.
Speaker 1: I went out with my little cannon point and shoot
Speaker 1: and I shot the building. And because then we said,
Speaker 1: oh we'll do this with Pam. She takes the painting away,
Speaker 1: but at the end we go into the painting because
Speaker 1: we needed like this just nice poignant ending. I go,
Speaker 1: I got it. I got it, and we go into
Speaker 1: the painting and it dissolves into the building and that's
Speaker 1: the last shot you see. And so I shot this building.
Speaker 1: And then even Matt so own r d P said
Speaker 1: I'll shoot it also with our cameras we'll see you know,
Speaker 1: and he shot it and it looked nice too. But
Speaker 1: for some reason, like I got this lighting and or
Speaker 1: Greg just he gets used to what he sees and
Speaker 1: he's like, no, I like this one. And that was it.
Speaker 1: That was the last shot. It dissolves from the painting
Speaker 1: into this into the building. So how much after we
Speaker 1: shot the finale did you do that? It was probably
Speaker 1: a month and a half. Listen. We didn't finish the
Speaker 1: show until the morning of I mean we were at
Speaker 1: the mix till one in the morning, and at midnight,
Speaker 1: I go, hey, Greg, I just realized the end titles
Speaker 1: are going to run over the most poignant moments of
Speaker 1: the show. And he goes, fuck. Howard had a call NBC.
Speaker 1: It was midnight and we had a figure and you know,
Speaker 1: ultimately like they ran a promo or something, you know,
Speaker 1: because the week before I directed the one, the week
Speaker 1: before the ARM, the penultimate one, the titles ran underneath
Speaker 1: We had a promo for the finale, I think that
Speaker 1: came after ARM, and so the credits just ran underneath
Speaker 1: that promo. But here we are. It was like what
Speaker 1: do we you know, what do we do? Because Greg
Speaker 1: is like, we can't make it. You know, there's no
Speaker 1: tag for the first run, and we didn't think about,
Speaker 1: like we just it's just not something that would come
Speaker 1: up in your head because normally we would run it under,
Speaker 1: you know, a tag or something. But in this, the
Speaker 1: end of this, it just ends. And so we got
Speaker 1: clearance to get a promo or something fifteen seconds twenty
Speaker 1: seconds and ran the credits under that. And then in
Speaker 1: the re airs we pulled out Michael and Dwight dancing
Speaker 1: to Rosalita at the wedding and that became the tag.
Speaker 1: So it runs under that when you see it in syndication,
Speaker 1: that's where the end of credits now run. That moved
Speaker 1: to the end. I was the last guy there, so
Speaker 1: I have video footage of It's sad when they were
Speaker 1: tearing down the sets, like I was the only when
Speaker 1: they're editing, like everybody else was gone, Like Greg wasn't
Speaker 1: even there, Like I'm editing. I was doing whatever, like
Speaker 1: the syndication cuts or you know, for season nine and
Speaker 1: the DVD stuff for that. And and then I went through,
Speaker 1: I I filmed, I did a walk through of the sets.
Speaker 1: It's kind of sad, but I have this foot has
Speaker 1: no one seen it. At some point if we do
Speaker 1: another collective, you know, DVD or retrospective or something, I
Speaker 1: have this footage to offer. Wow. It's a hard time
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Speaker 1: Listen to Before Breakfast wherever you get your podcasts? So well,
Speaker 1: you've worked in multi camp shows and you know, the
Speaker 1: office not having any sort of laugh track or music
Speaker 1: underneath underscoring stuff. Did that make your job harder? I
Speaker 1: had done single camera also, did I could a show
Speaker 1: called Andy Richard Controls the Universe with their music under
Speaker 1: that there was, and I did another show called The O'Keefe. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean everything had had music, um, but it made
Speaker 1: it easier not to have to score things, to not
Speaker 1: have to, you know, because especially I've worked on show
Speaker 1: since like The Mindy Project and even now on on
Speaker 1: a Space Force, you know, where like we have to
Speaker 1: you spend a lot of time hunting for like temp
Speaker 1: cues and things like that before the composer comes in
Speaker 1: and does their thing. But yeah, I mean the office
Speaker 1: just never needed it, like we didn't, you know. And
Speaker 1: there were a couple of times where we slip things
Speaker 1: in because they it felt like okay, the documentarian, like
Speaker 1: at the end of dinner Party, we play Hunter's song,
Speaker 1: and uh, it's because the document you can logically say
Speaker 1: the documentarian would have taken it and played it like
Speaker 1: it's their choice. Dinner Party is one that I wanted
Speaker 1: to talk to you about. You cut that, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and that was certainly one of probably the top two
Speaker 1: episodes that utilized the cringe comedy factor more than anything else.
Speaker 1: Did you respond to that kind of episode? I? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it was a different episode, and just that
Speaker 1: they're at this house and you're seeing Michael acting, you know,
Speaker 1: in a different way than he acts so much, you know,
Speaker 1: more like just an elevated way of him acting than
Speaker 1: at work. He's so happy to have everybody there, but
Speaker 1: it's also so uncomfortable, you know. Um. And I love
Speaker 1: the way he liked it. Doesn't he like trick Jim
Speaker 1: and Pam to get yes? And? Uh, yeah, I love
Speaker 1: the comedy. I had one I pitched one joke that
Speaker 1: made it in where Michael goes and looks at his
Speaker 1: TV and it's you know, it's really small and it's
Speaker 1: hanging on the wall and we were sitting I was
Speaker 1: sitting in Video Village with Gene and Lee, the writers,
Speaker 1: and I go he should say, uh man, I love this.
Speaker 1: I could just stand here and watch TV all day.
Speaker 1: And Jean like yes, and he ran out and he
Speaker 1: told Paul some people's favorite. Yeah. So I was like,
Speaker 1: and I think it made it in Like I was
Speaker 1: so happy he made it, like in one of those
Speaker 1: like Jeff's or something or one of those quotes. But
Speaker 1: that was my my quote because it was like, I
Speaker 1: he just stood there, and I was like, that's what's funny.
Speaker 1: He's like that, not that he would be sitting down
Speaker 1: relaxing that he could be I could just stand here,
Speaker 1: And it's funny because brought up that moment as one
Speaker 1: of the times he could not laugh and specifically Steve
Speaker 1: saying something like, oh and it can tilt and it
Speaker 1: moves just and just kind of bangs the walls. Just
Speaker 1: the slightest amount were wires hanging down. I mean that scene.
Speaker 1: We have tons of bloopers, like they could not keep
Speaker 1: it together that episode. They could not keep it together,
Speaker 1: but that that scene with the TV and you could
Speaker 1: just see the wires and John be like, oh, I
Speaker 1: see the you know, and you're gonna get the wires,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, Like whatever, he was just talking
Speaker 1: because it was like, it just looks so unprofessionally set up,
Speaker 1: you know, Oh my god. And I think we were
Speaker 1: on strike. The writers were on strike when that episode started. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the timeline to refresh your memory is Dinner Party was
Speaker 1: the episode that was completed before the strike, before the
Speaker 1: stow that was written and we could have shot it.
Speaker 1: And we showed up for work on that first day
Speaker 1: of shooting and I believe they got a couple of
Speaker 1: talking heads in and Steve said I'm not coming in.
Speaker 1: That was and that was it. Yeah, what do you
Speaker 1: remember about that time? I just was like, Okay, well
Speaker 1: this is that's what we do. Listen. I'm a union guy.
Speaker 1: I'm in the most picture editors guild in the d
Speaker 1: g A. So I if the writers, you know, if
Speaker 1: there's a strike, you know, I support my my brothers
Speaker 1: and sisters and the other unions. I think I marched
Speaker 1: a couple of days more and more just to see people,
Speaker 1: you know, because it was like three or four months.
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I was hanging out with Mindy
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, Brent and Paul and you know,
Speaker 1: just just marching. What was funny too, was like I
Speaker 1: was going to direct that season. This was season uh four,
Speaker 1: So I was going to direct that season. And I
Speaker 1: remember when we came back, Kent said, I don't know,
Speaker 1: you know what promises were made, and I said, it's okay.
Speaker 1: Let's just because they didn't know how many episodes would
Speaker 1: be left, and you know, and I was like, it's okay,
Speaker 1: we just want to get back to work. I'll direct.
Speaker 1: I'll get my first one at some point, I'm not worried.
Speaker 1: And and I got mine, you know. I season five.
Speaker 1: Early on in season five was when I got my
Speaker 1: my first episode to direct. And was that your first directing?
Speaker 1: That was my first directing? Was employee transfer of any television,
Speaker 1: of any television? Yeah? And I had you know, I
Speaker 1: had a huge Halloween you know, we had the Halloween opening.
Speaker 1: You were Batman, you were the Joker. Yeah, there were
Speaker 1: three Jokers. So I had this nice, you know, this
Speaker 1: great fun thing with the costumes, and then uh and
Speaker 1: then I had three stories. I had Jim and Pam,
Speaker 1: Pam meeting Jim's brothers for the first time. I had
Speaker 1: uh Dwight coming in wearing Cornell paraphernalia and pissing off Andy.
Speaker 1: And then I had Michael Holly and Darryl driving and
Speaker 1: you know, breaking up, and it was funny. I showed up.
Speaker 1: Was my first day of filming, I think was that
Speaker 1: and I was so I mean, I had so much
Speaker 1: anxiety that night before, and I show up and I
Speaker 1: go to crew parking and I'm on the bus with
Speaker 1: the extras. You know, we're sitting, everyone's talking, they're excited,
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh no, no no, no, no no, no no,
Speaker 1: and then like and they're like, oh, I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: the director, and like the extras look, you know, their
Speaker 1: faces just kind of dropped. But I'm like, I'm you know,
Speaker 1: I'm because I'm a regular guy. I just I don't
Speaker 1: know they tell me. And then I get there, like
Speaker 1: oh no, you can park here. You don't have to
Speaker 1: be at base camp. You could be here at as
Speaker 1: I don't know, I get the call sheet. This was it.
Speaker 1: No one specifically told me where to park, and but
Speaker 1: it was so great. I mean, everybody was so supportive,
Speaker 1: the cast, the crew. I have, you know, have a script.
Speaker 1: Kim Ferry from Harry I think got everybody to sign
Speaker 1: a script for me. So it's got cast and crew
Speaker 1: and it it really means a lot. Yeah, what did
Speaker 1: that mean for you to be given that opportunity by Greg? Oh,
Speaker 1: I mean him at the world to be trusted. Uh listen.
Speaker 1: In season one, I had started kind of helping out
Speaker 1: Season one. He did the basketball episode was the first
Speaker 1: thing he had directed, and he's like, I want you
Speaker 1: on set with me. So I would be there and
Speaker 1: sometimes he'd be back with video village and I he's like,
Speaker 1: you yell cut when we got it, and you know,
Speaker 1: I'm nervous, but I would yell cut sometimes. And I
Speaker 1: designed a couple of the shots just discussing stuff with
Speaker 1: him or was like, hey, I think if we do that.
Speaker 1: You know, we needed like just more comedy bits, single
Speaker 1: things to cut two and then cut more back to
Speaker 1: the story. And and I remember the one bit that
Speaker 1: I did was where Michael's like, Jim, Jim, Jim, give
Speaker 1: me the ball, give me the ball, and he looks
Speaker 1: away and Jim throws it and it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: rockets past him and jim My bad. You know that
Speaker 1: that that kind of thing Um and I had. Also
Speaker 1: one of the things I had done was sometimes you know,
Speaker 1: if we were sing a shot or something, I might say, oh,
Speaker 1: we can just do you know in editing, we we
Speaker 1: would That's a different thing. Is like rewriting and saying, hey,
Speaker 1: if we just get a talking head here, we can
Speaker 1: cut all of this out time wise and just come
Speaker 1: in here. Claire talked about Yeah, one of the things
Speaker 1: I did was the episode fun Run where um Michael
Speaker 1: drives in and he hits So the first time, you know,
Speaker 1: when we got the footage originally he came in and
Speaker 1: he stopped short, and we panned to the right, you know,
Speaker 1: off him, like a quick whip pant, and you would
Speaker 1: just see Meredith laying there in the street, and it
Speaker 1: would went back and I said, Greg, you have to
Speaker 1: come see this. Like I said, it doesn't look like
Speaker 1: he hit her. It looks like he stopped short and
Speaker 1: found her just lying like as if she's passed out.
Speaker 1: And so we're talking about reshoots and stuff, and I said,
Speaker 1: I think I think we could do something where we
Speaker 1: wouldn't even need Steve, like I can use his footage.
Speaker 1: And so I have a version with our line producer
Speaker 1: Ken Sipborneck where I said, we do this and Dan Beals,
Speaker 1: who was a p A he was, he sat there
Speaker 1: on the steering wheel, he had his sleeve. We did
Speaker 1: a whip. I had Kent. We kind of threw him
Speaker 1: against the windshield and then he would he bounced off
Speaker 1: and rolled off, and then we whipped back and I
Speaker 1: edited this so I had a version with with Michael
Speaker 1: driving whipped off. You saw Kent hit the windshield, he
Speaker 1: came off, whipped back to Michael, and Michael like looking,
Speaker 1: you know, shocked, and they're like, all right, let's do it.
Speaker 1: So then I was there, you know, with the I
Speaker 1: guess second unit with UH with Kate Flannery, and I
Speaker 1: would kind of slam her, you know, slam her onto
Speaker 1: the windshield, so she would kind of fall hit the
Speaker 1: windshield and and she would fall off and land on pads.
Speaker 1: And uh, she says, because I got on the Tonight
Speaker 1: Show or one of these talks because of that, she
Speaker 1: got more popular because she got hit by Michael's car.
Speaker 1: You know, it was one of one of those things
Speaker 1: that's so so, you know, it was great to finally
Speaker 1: be given the opportunity to say, hey, I really want
Speaker 1: to direct, give me a shot. And I was happy,
Speaker 1: like everybody, the response to employee transfer was was really positive,
Speaker 1: so that was really rewarding to um what do you
Speaker 1: think it is about you and Greg's relationship that makes
Speaker 1: it work so well, and that you've continued to work
Speaker 1: on other things with him after I think, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's definitely a trust like he I think he you know,
Speaker 1: he likes what I do. He likes the speed that
Speaker 1: I'm able to do it. He knows. I'm talking to Mindy.
Speaker 1: I got dinner. Mindy and my girlfriend and I had
Speaker 1: dinner recently, and Mindy said something, she goes. Greg said
Speaker 1: this about Dave. She goes, Dave's never political when it
Speaker 1: comes to editing and making a show. Like, I'm not
Speaker 1: sitting there. I never even occurred to me to be like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: this writer wrote this joke, I'm gonna put this in,
Speaker 1: or this one did this. I mean to me, I
Speaker 1: just was doing what I thought, Hey, this is what
Speaker 1: I think is funnier. This is what I think is
Speaker 1: the best. So I think Greg appreciates that that. I'm
Speaker 1: just like Dave is just gonna do what's funniest. If
Speaker 1: it's an actor ad lib that's funnier than the scripted line,
Speaker 1: that's what's gonna Dave's gonna put in and in Greg's
Speaker 1: In fairness to Greg, Greg will go with that as well. Listen,
Speaker 1: I've unlocked shows. We had a show Lice Claire finished
Speaker 1: it with Greg and they cut out the last scene
Speaker 1: like they ended it with Meredith saying, hey, let's go
Speaker 1: get a drink. And I said, you cut out the
Speaker 1: scene of them in the bar and and Greg's like yeah,
Speaker 1: he goes, did you miss it? I go yeah, and
Speaker 1: this is like mixed, it's ready to be delivered, you know.
Speaker 1: And uh, Greg goes, all right, we'll do a version
Speaker 1: of what you want and let me look at it,
Speaker 1: you know, but try and don't have don't have this
Speaker 1: stuff because I didn't like this in that conversation at
Speaker 1: the end, I'm like, yeah, no problem, I'll take out
Speaker 1: that stuff and I'll find some trims. It's not too disruptive.
Speaker 1: In the rest of the show. It's like okay, And
Speaker 1: that was it, and I re so I changed the episode.
Speaker 1: We remixed. I mean, it was just it was, you know,
Speaker 1: we just had to do a fix. We had a
Speaker 1: picture fix in this and I remember Kate came up,
Speaker 1: was really happy. She came to the edic. She's like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, like and I was like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: missed that scene. I didn't think I think we need
Speaker 1: that scene. It's really nice. And the writer, the writer
Speaker 1: was home sick and she gets a DVD delivered and
Speaker 1: she's like, what's this The show already locked? Like what
Speaker 1: is it? Like? She didn't know that I had unlocked
Speaker 1: and relocked it. So she was so excited because this
Speaker 1: was the scene that she wanted. Also, you know, there
Speaker 1: was a staff writer and she was like, oh my god.
Speaker 1: But I think that all goes to you know, with
Speaker 1: Greg knows like I will always fight for what's best.
Speaker 1: I will work crazy hours, and you know he will
Speaker 1: always get my honest and best opinion. I'm never at
Speaker 1: a point where I'm like I don't care like that,
Speaker 1: never had I ate once in a while say that,
Speaker 1: but the truth is it's not It's not true, and
Speaker 1: I'll think about it. I'll think about edits and I will,
Speaker 1: you know, get up early in the morning to oh,
Speaker 1: I want to tweak this and fix this and how
Speaker 1: can I make this better? And you know, there are
Speaker 1: times where I've argued with him on stuff. I go,
Speaker 1: we can why would we do this? Da da da da,
Speaker 1: And He'll make a point. I'll be like, Okay, I
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Like something times I just need that
Speaker 1: or I need to know why. And there were other
Speaker 1: moments where we had some long stuff. I remember being
Speaker 1: with Jen Salata and there was a scene where Roy
Speaker 1: is being nice to Pam and he gets her out
Speaker 1: of a meeting and he helps her with her car
Speaker 1: or something, and they're walking in the parking lot and
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, we get it. And Jen wanted longer
Speaker 1: and longer and longer. And I remember being in the
Speaker 1: bag like a little shit there, you know, with Greg
Speaker 1: and I go like this, I'm sitting there in front
Speaker 1: of my own and I hold up my hand like this.
Speaker 1: He goes, what are you doing? I go, this is
Speaker 1: me at home, changing the channel, and he goes, all right,
Speaker 1: make it ten seconds. And then, you know, so like
Speaker 1: we got it. We go short because it wasn't like
Speaker 1: this is just them walking. It's like we I want
Speaker 1: to get back now to the other stuff, Like we
Speaker 1: get it. They're walking. There's enough of a moment of them.
Speaker 1: It's not like it was short. But I didn't need
Speaker 1: twenty seconds of that, you know, things like that. So there,
Speaker 1: you know, he yeah, but I think Greg appreciates it,
Speaker 1: you know, because I'm like I'm honest, Why did people
Speaker 1: respond to the Jim Pam story so much? Oh? I
Speaker 1: mean she's adorable. I mean that's your perspective, that's the
Speaker 1: that's my perspective. He's I mean, he is a super
Speaker 1: sweet guy and he's sensitive and he's funny, and you know,
Speaker 1: he's good looking. But she's adorable and and she's being
Speaker 1: treated terribly by Roy and it's like, you want something
Speaker 1: better for her, And that's it. That's what it all
Speaker 1: comes down to. I think that's it. You know that,
Speaker 1: and here's this guy that would be perfect for her
Speaker 1: and they would be happy, and you just want to
Speaker 1: see that. Yeah, I think that it a lot of
Speaker 1: it has to do also with the editing work that
Speaker 1: you guys did and the way the writers wrote the
Speaker 1: story right, you couldn't get tired of them because there
Speaker 1: would be whole episodes where nothing would happen between them,
Speaker 1: so it just naturally happened slow. Um. I felt like
Speaker 1: that gave it room to breathe and ultimately brought people
Speaker 1: into that story because not only were they dying for
Speaker 1: them to get together, they were they were dying to
Speaker 1: see more of them, and they were intentionally withheld from that.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's true? Oh yeah, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I think definitely that it's It was the center of
Speaker 1: the show, but off center, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: It wasn't it would come in and and then go,
Speaker 1: you know, back off a bit. It was I mean,
Speaker 1: that's not The show has many components, so it was
Speaker 1: like like an ensemble. It was like, here's one element
Speaker 1: of the show. Here's another element, here's another element, here's
Speaker 1: another element. So it wasn't like, hey, here's just a
Speaker 1: show about you know, two people. I mean, look, they didn't.
Speaker 1: We we played it. We timed everything nice too. I
Speaker 1: think that there was a certain pacing to their relationship.
Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody talks you about Casino Night, Yes,
Speaker 1: there was a huge discussion. They talked about the huge discussion. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's one of the things that I wanted to get
Speaker 1: into with you because I was in the room where
Speaker 1: the huge discussions. Yes, let's have let's talk about the
Speaker 1: huge discussion. Now, which scene in Casino Night is this
Speaker 1: when Jim Jim professes his love or the kiss when
Speaker 1: he professes his love is uh? Originally, like the concept
Speaker 1: was we would just see the aftermath of it. And
Speaker 1: there was a huge discussion about no, no, no, we
Speaker 1: should see you know, and and it was Greg and
Speaker 1: Ken the actors were there and stuff, and it was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's cool to do something as a documentary to
Speaker 1: be like, oh, we're just capturing the moment after. But
Speaker 1: there's something unsatisfying I think for an audience member to
Speaker 1: not see a piece of this. And uh, I think
Speaker 1: we made the right choice in letting them have a
Speaker 1: conversation Asian. And you think it's and you think that's it,
Speaker 1: Like you know, he says I'm in love with you
Speaker 1: and she's like I can't. And then you think that's
Speaker 1: you know, he's like I just don't want to be friends,
Speaker 1: you know, and that's it. And you think, okay, we're done,
Speaker 1: we're done. And then at the end, what a what
Speaker 1: an ending? I mean you talk about a cliffhang or
Speaker 1: what a what an ending that he comes in and
Speaker 1: what a great kiss too? And I mean kudos to
Speaker 1: the actors because it's you know, even in our small
Speaker 1: world on the set, like there just was a sense
Speaker 1: of pressure of like, like, here's a big moment that
Speaker 1: we're dealing with, and they just they just fucking awesome,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's such a great kiss and what
Speaker 1: he does and what she does, and you know, it's
Speaker 1: just and then that we stop and again it's a
Speaker 1: timing thing of them. It's after and they look at
Speaker 1: each other and then boom we go to black. You
Speaker 1: know I can see, oh yeah, like the timing of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because it's that moment of like where they look at
Speaker 1: each other after like what now, and then we go
Speaker 1: to black. And then the next season, Greg he had
Speaker 1: that opening. Man, everything gets slowly revealed. You see this aspect,
Speaker 1: this aspect and you see Pam doesn't have a ring,
Speaker 1: Jim is in the now a different location, and it's like, well,
Speaker 1: what happened? And then we find out, right, Um, did
Speaker 1: you shoot two versions of Casino Night or what did
Speaker 1: the discussion in that scenario happened beforehand? Did you cut
Speaker 1: that multiple ways? No, we just we shot at the
Speaker 1: way that ended up, and we just did version. I
Speaker 1: mean you could have edited I guess a certain way
Speaker 1: and and seen it like the aftermath, but that point
Speaker 1: the decision was yeah it was and you saw it
Speaker 1: and you were like, oh yeah, we want to see
Speaker 1: this well. And we had other discussions like that on
Speaker 1: other episodes. The proposal, I don't know if Greg this
Speaker 1: this was. I was moving right into no, no literally
Speaker 1: right now. I mean, um, so what I was told
Speaker 1: and reminded about was, yes, the proposal the great sound
Speaker 1: or no sound was it because it was written in
Speaker 1: a way, you know, the production aspects of that where
Speaker 1: we built this on a huge parking lot and we
Speaker 1: had trucks eight wheelers doing figure eight to make it
Speaker 1: look like they're passing, you know, so they have enough
Speaker 1: room like cars passing driving by, and uh, Jim and Pam,
Speaker 1: you know, the original concept was like that we couldn't
Speaker 1: hear them. We would just see it, and then we
Speaker 1: had a version where you would hear it, and ultimately, uh,
Speaker 1: Greg went with the version where you can't hear them,
Speaker 1: and then he changed his mind that morning that we
Speaker 1: were wearing He's like, no, I've slept on it, and
Speaker 1: I want to put the one where they can hear
Speaker 1: them the morning that we're airing. Yeah, so then it
Speaker 1: was like I think I think it was like that
Speaker 1: morning He's like, okay, so we we did the one
Speaker 1: where there you can hear them, and I think listen,
Speaker 1: I think both of them were great versions, but I
Speaker 1: think it's probably better to to hear. I mean, we
Speaker 1: waited so long for this moment, it was probably better
Speaker 1: to uh, better to hear and not just see it,
Speaker 1: because you didn't want any kind of confusion of like
Speaker 1: what happened. You know. I think that ultimately we made
Speaker 1: the right choice. But I'll tell you this is they
Speaker 1: didn't destroy the one with the no sound. And when
Speaker 1: it was time to make the DVDs, they almost screwed
Speaker 1: up and had that one and and Jake Aust was
Speaker 1: our a P at the time, and he was like,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, you know, like that almost got burned
Speaker 1: onto DVDs they were doing QC and uh He's like,
Speaker 1: I mean, some some heads rolled because it was like
Speaker 1: this needs to be labeled and not you know, either
Speaker 1: not here anywhere where it would get mixed in. You know.
Speaker 1: You know, I've had a number of people talk to
Speaker 1: me about that moment, and I will say to you,
Speaker 1: I remember very very specifically the way that looked. I
Speaker 1: remember him going down, I remember the rain, I remember
Speaker 1: the eighteen wheelers going by right, and that's such a
Speaker 1: spy shot. I don't remember what he said, Yeah, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like how it was. It's almost
Speaker 1: irrelevant which choice, because like she's like, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: He says, I can't wait anymore. And it's not I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not about like the dialogue being like that sharp,
Speaker 1: but it is having that help of that audio que
Speaker 1: and and again there's plenty of other sound going on.
Speaker 1: It's not like, hey, this is as clear as day,
Speaker 1: but it was just at least you could could But
Speaker 1: I understand what you're saying. Yeah, um, talk to me
Speaker 1: a little bit while we're on the subject of sound
Speaker 1: about Company Picnic and the decision to cut the sound
Speaker 1: when you find out that Pam is pregnant. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: so that was That was the episode where I made
Speaker 1: my office acting ray bands guy, um um, I believe
Speaker 1: it's guy wearing ray bands. Yeah. Uh. And it's funny.
Speaker 1: I have friends and anytime it shows up. And I
Speaker 1: have friends now whose kids watched the show and they're like,
Speaker 1: that's Dave. You know they see me on there with
Speaker 1: My one line was that your acting was my acting
Speaker 1: debut on across any platform. That was your acting debut.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, I have acted before, I have
Speaker 1: shown up. It's funny. I mean a Gilmore Girls episode
Speaker 1: and uh, I have one line. I go, sure, but
Speaker 1: it was such that sounds like a word, not an
Speaker 1: that's a line of work. A matter of fact, as
Speaker 1: when I edited that for my own acting reel, it
Speaker 1: was so short. I had to add like to still
Speaker 1: frames at the end because I'm on, you know, it's
Speaker 1: a Guilmard Girls. They cut it so tight, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: but uh, but I remember it was such an all
Speaker 1: star day for me, like just being on the set
Speaker 1: as an actor because I was an assistant editor. I
Speaker 1: had taken acting classes to become better as a director,
Speaker 1: so and then I was going out. I did I
Speaker 1: did voice work. I'm on a cartoon. I did like
Speaker 1: thirty four episodes of an animation show called the Shinzo,
Speaker 1: which is a Japanese anime show, and speak Japanese. I
Speaker 1: didn't speak Japanese. This was like the English every American version.
Speaker 1: You're really good at the American version shows. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: uh but uh, but I would say this. So the
Speaker 1: Gilder Girls, like Melissa McCarthy was there. Lauren Graham is
Speaker 1: in the scene and I think she was dating Matthew
Speaker 1: Perry at the time, so he was there. It was
Speaker 1: on the Warner Brothers lot and he was there like
Speaker 1: just joking around. He did the slate a couple of times,
Speaker 1: so it was like really an really a fun day.
Speaker 1: But I have one one word. I go, sure, sure,
Speaker 1: why did they not hire me? Alright? So sorry company,
Speaker 1: Picnic Company Picnic the decision to not use sound there
Speaker 1: when she you find out she's pregnant, Yeah, you have
Speaker 1: to have sound. I don't think you really know what
Speaker 1: happens if there's no mention in Paul. I think it
Speaker 1: was like, no, I don't think you needed at all.
Speaker 1: There was one version where it wasn't in, and I
Speaker 1: was like, if we don't have that, like no one
Speaker 1: pays attention to it, but it's in the back of
Speaker 1: your mind, like we need to have some little crumb.
Speaker 1: But uh, I think they're acting. Just played it like
Speaker 1: you knew right away from their acting what what had happened.
Speaker 1: And they never go back. You know, it's such a
Speaker 1: sweet moment. Pam is like nodding, and Jim is like,
Speaker 1: you know, oh my god. He gives her a big
Speaker 1: hug and uh, and I think it's this joyous surprise
Speaker 1: for the audience and they never go back to the game.
Speaker 1: They never go back to the volleyball game or anything.
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Speaker 1: us It's brought to you by the U. S Department
Speaker 1: of Health that Human service as Administration for Children and
Speaker 1: Families and the Act Council. Do you have a favorite episode? Um,
Speaker 1: I have a few favorites, and there's some that I
Speaker 1: haven't cut. I love Employee Transfer because it was my first.
Speaker 1: I love ARM because it was my last, and I
Speaker 1: had so many great things to do in there. I had.
Speaker 1: I have Darryl dancing with everybody. Jim plays this video
Speaker 1: for Pam and uh, you know, it was so sweet.
Speaker 1: I'm the voice of the documentarian, you know, things like that,
Speaker 1: and uh, Dwight gets to propose to Angela and he
Speaker 1: cuts her off and and you know there's all this
Speaker 1: stuff with the with the kids. So I mean, I
Speaker 1: love I love that episode. But uh, I love the finale.
Speaker 1: The finale is one of my favorites. I love the negotiation.
Speaker 1: I just think like that, you know, it is an episode.
Speaker 1: Mike Sure wrote that one, And that to me is
Speaker 1: like an like you could show that in a screenwriting
Speaker 1: class and be like, look at this, Like it starts
Speaker 1: out here and then there's a twist, and it goes here,
Speaker 1: and then there's a twist and again, you know, and
Speaker 1: it's just so funny, like he and it's just the
Speaker 1: basic premises Michael wears he buys a woman's suit and
Speaker 1: doesn't realize it and where that ends up going. You know, Um,
Speaker 1: I love Booze Cruise and I didn't edit Booze Cruise.
Speaker 1: I I love Michael dancing that he does a motivation dance,
Speaker 1: and I love that as we call it, like the
Speaker 1: seconds of silence, seconds of silence outside with Jim and Pam. Well,
Speaker 1: even you talking before about that specific moment of the
Speaker 1: end of Casino Night. I think my overwhelming memory of
Speaker 1: you is you're an incredible artist and really know your job,
Speaker 1: but you are also so excited. I mean to say
Speaker 1: that you are fan. I mean I call myself a
Speaker 1: fan of the show, right like I was. I thought
Speaker 1: The Office was an excellent show. I'm a fan of
Speaker 1: that show regardless of the fact I worked on it.
Speaker 1: And I felt like for you, you were the same way.
Speaker 1: Like you were excited by a great moment that the
Speaker 1: actors gave, Like you were excited about something that cameras
Speaker 1: did that looked cool that you were able to put
Speaker 1: together and yeah, that that spirit was pretty awesome. Well,
Speaker 1: it's funny we had we had this environment and post
Speaker 1: because we would see things we had a whole different,
Speaker 1: you know, like people quote the show, right, but we
Speaker 1: would quote stuff, and you guys, by the time we
Speaker 1: would get to set like three days later and be like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is so funny. You guys don't
Speaker 1: even know what we're talking about because at that point
Speaker 1: you've had like seven other pages of dialogue to memorize
Speaker 1: and things like that, you know. So it was like
Speaker 1: I'd be like, going, oh my god, what Steve is
Speaker 1: And I find myself like there are mannerisms that I do,
Speaker 1: Like there are things that people will say to Michael
Speaker 1: Scott and be like and you know, likes and and
Speaker 1: I say that I do that. Even yesterday I said
Speaker 1: something to Greg and I'm like, I'm doing Steve Carrell.
Speaker 1: Like there was something where I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: like like doing these things. But I remember I used
Speaker 1: to call everybody by their character name, or at least
Speaker 1: the one like the writers like Mindy. I'm sure you
Speaker 1: know people call you Kevin because they, you know, just
Speaker 1: out of like Kevin. But I used to like deliberately,
Speaker 1: like I got into this mindset where I had nicknames
Speaker 1: for Paul, Like I would call him tob larone. Like
Speaker 1: things that Michael Scott didn't even call him. I would
Speaker 1: call make up nicknames for Toby and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean I was just a huge fan of all
Speaker 1: you guys. I mean just I just I yeah, I
Speaker 1: love the show, and I was so glad to be
Speaker 1: working on stuff from season one, just these dark endings.
Speaker 1: Like people some people, you know, they say, oh, they
Speaker 1: didn't like season one, or they like it later once
Speaker 1: they see where season two and three are, they can
Speaker 1: go back and they appreciate it more. I loved it
Speaker 1: out of the gate. I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this like it's a it coom that doesn't end on it.
Speaker 1: It's not tied up in a bow at the end
Speaker 1: of the episode, and like they all hate Michael at
Speaker 1: the end of the healthcare I mean Greg's favorite moment,
Speaker 1: you know, was I still have my vagina. Remember you know,
Speaker 1: a vagint is different from a uterus. I still have
Speaker 1: my vagina. I mean I remember, I remember for the
Speaker 1: rap party, the hundred yeah we have. But we had
Speaker 1: the rap party, and so you know, we would make
Speaker 1: the gag rail and we show you know, we would
Speaker 1: put bloopers and we would show the crew. And then
Speaker 1: I did something different. I said, oh, I'm going to
Speaker 1: do a highlights of a hundred and I did, and
Speaker 1: we did account for like episode one here just a
Speaker 1: quick line, just a quick thing to identify, and we
Speaker 1: got all the casts, like everybody had a had a moment.
Speaker 1: But it was like finding what is this kind of
Speaker 1: you know, something that just says, here's a line from here,
Speaker 1: Here's a line from here, Here's a moment from here,
Speaker 1: here's you know, Michael hitting Meredith with the car, here's uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, just these little things, and it
Speaker 1: was it's so and it's on the DVD. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just great to see like just this thing. And
Speaker 1: I remember everybody like just getting excited in lighting up,
Speaker 1: but like just at this kind of thing and what
Speaker 1: we had done, you know. Yeah, so it's crazy. So
Speaker 1: you won two Emmy's. I won two Emmy's on the
Speaker 1: Office for the job and for the finale. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: co won those with Dean Holland and I for the
Speaker 1: job in Claire Scanlon for the finale, Yeah, and to
Speaker 1: ACE American Cinema Editor Awards as well. Um, you were
Speaker 1: the most honored department on the show, right, No actress one,
Speaker 1: two writers won you know the show one once. It's
Speaker 1: just interesting to me, you know. Well, especially what was
Speaker 1: really rewarding was the finale to be reward you know,
Speaker 1: because we had we were not the fresh new show
Speaker 1: at that point, so it was really rewarding to to
Speaker 1: win the finale. And like I said, we won the
Speaker 1: Emmy and the American Cinema Editor Award in case Eddie
Speaker 1: for that um but but especially you know, with the Emmy,
Speaker 1: I just think it was our peers. You know, you know,
Speaker 1: you have editors, and so it's editors voting on editors.
Speaker 1: So I think there's they recognized what you were doing.
Speaker 1: I think they recognize it. And I think, listen, there's
Speaker 1: so much of it is like, oh what what is
Speaker 1: kind of hot and popular? You could be the best
Speaker 1: editor in the world. If you're not working on, you know,
Speaker 1: a show that has all these pieces that isn't in
Speaker 1: the zeitgeist to show, you know, you're not going to
Speaker 1: get that recognition, you know. And so with with The Office, though,
Speaker 1: here was something that we were doing that was fresh
Speaker 1: and new and such a great script. And look, we
Speaker 1: lied to everybody too about Steve, and I remember Greg
Speaker 1: felt really bad about lying to people because he was
Speaker 1: lying to family and friends, and I was like, I
Speaker 1: remember writing something. I said, Greg, I said, listen, in
Speaker 1: today's day and age, everything gets spoiled. It's not like
Speaker 1: it used to be that you could have this surprise.
Speaker 1: I said. So, this is what we're doing, is we're
Speaker 1: giving people something. Because we even had hit the footage
Speaker 1: of Steve Trance for we didn't have it done at Universal.
Speaker 1: We had it done secretly somewhere else. Did you know
Speaker 1: he was showing up to set that day? I knew
Speaker 1: that he was showing up, I think a day or
Speaker 1: two before. Somebody spilled the beans to me. But I've
Speaker 1: talked to a number of people who didn't know until
Speaker 1: the assistant directors said Stevens in the makeup trailer. There
Speaker 1: were some people who did not know until until then.
Speaker 1: I'm so curious as to who from the cast didn't
Speaker 1: know that day because I knew. I mean because I
Speaker 1: came to set that day because I knew, Hey, he's
Speaker 1: coming at this time. So Claire and I went to set,
Speaker 1: so Steve agrees to come. It's a big secret. It's
Speaker 1: kept from the network. And so even after he shot
Speaker 1: his scenes, you took it somewhere else. So we get
Speaker 1: the footage transferred, like we get the video is transferred
Speaker 1: and you know, it's it's basically it's taken on digitally
Speaker 1: and then it's put into the Abbot's It's like in
Speaker 1: files that are put into the Abbots. And normally we
Speaker 1: do all our stuff at Universal on the Universal lot
Speaker 1: was where we would transfer, and that's where we would
Speaker 1: we did not. We took his scenes and we got
Speaker 1: them transferred somewhere else. And what you made them sign
Speaker 1: like non disclosure or they were friends or something or yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: little Timmy's basement, Like what do you actually it was
Speaker 1: Eric Culjin who was our ap. His father worked at
Speaker 1: another level. It was level three. I mean they do
Speaker 1: big shows and stuff like that. So we took it
Speaker 1: there and we had a transferred there like in a
Speaker 1: room where it was like okay, this is where it's
Speaker 1: gonna be transfer. Like we just didn't want We didn't
Speaker 1: want NBC execs to have access to the dailies, because
Speaker 1: they can there's a way I think where they can
Speaker 1: access you know, the footage, they can look at dailies
Speaker 1: and things like that. We didn't want that because we
Speaker 1: didn't want them ultimately to promo Steve Carrell returns because
Speaker 1: Steve didn't want that, and there was also as a surprise.
Speaker 1: It's like there's just enough footage of him as a
Speaker 1: surprise that you're like blown away. My mom cringes it
Speaker 1: at Michael Scott like she you know, so much of
Speaker 1: the time, like she would cringe. But man, she watched
Speaker 1: that finale moment. She would rewind and watch him showing up,
Speaker 1: you know, that reveal fifty times. She's like, David, I
Speaker 1: can't stop watching it, you know. I mean, it's just
Speaker 1: such a great moment with the reveal. It's like I
Speaker 1: can't be your best man, but you know. And and
Speaker 1: so we were secretive about it, and and Greg I
Speaker 1: remember Gregg felt bad about lying and I was explaining
Speaker 1: to him about spoilers. I'm like, this is not harming anyone.
Speaker 1: And it's like a surprise party if someone asked, like
Speaker 1: are you throwing me a surprise party? And you say no,
Speaker 1: and the two hours later surprise, Like that's what this is.
Speaker 1: And Greg I remember he said he felt better, he
Speaker 1: felt better about that, you know about it. It It was like,
Speaker 1: I know it's hard, but that's what it is. Like
Speaker 1: we're we're you know, we have to keep it a secret.
Speaker 1: And if everybody keeps it a secret, it's a secret.
Speaker 1: Like that's we're all in it together. Because even you know,
Speaker 1: I remember, you know Ken kopp Is like the day
Speaker 1: before was like, no, Steve's not in it. He you know,
Speaker 1: he decided that he ended, he had his exit and
Speaker 1: all this and it's like, yeah, we're just flying. It's
Speaker 1: a white, little white lie like that's it and and
Speaker 1: it all comes out right. Um, how how did you
Speaker 1: working on the Office change your life? God? Well, it
Speaker 1: just was like being you know, like I said, I
Speaker 1: had worked on Seinfeld, but I was a small part
Speaker 1: of that show, and it was it was very late.
Speaker 1: I joined late. I was not instrumental in making that
Speaker 1: show anything. I just I was lucky to be a
Speaker 1: part of it. But being part of the Office was
Speaker 1: like you know, coming in right after the pilot and
Speaker 1: getting to you know, tweak the pilot a little bit,
Speaker 1: but you know, just just coming in though from diversity
Speaker 1: day and and being instrumental in like helping shape the show,
Speaker 1: really being part of the creative process. I didn't write
Speaker 1: you know, scripts or anything like that, but Greg would
Speaker 1: always listen, like if you have pitches if you have
Speaker 1: any ideas, and sometimes you know, hey this would get in.
Speaker 1: That would that would get in, you know, and sometimes
Speaker 1: like I said, I'd rewrite a jew oak in the
Speaker 1: edit bay and we would okay, we'll go shoot it.
Speaker 1: Or I would right even the bones, and then I said,
Speaker 1: have the writers, you know, have them just make it better,
Speaker 1: like right right, a Sharper joke and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Um and yeah, So I mean it changed my life,
Speaker 1: like just being a part of that show. And and
Speaker 1: obviously I mean it's nice like to be on something
Speaker 1: that's popular and people like, oh you work on the office,
Speaker 1: like you know, like it's still to this day people
Speaker 1: are always you know, surprised and throw. I mean, I went,
Speaker 1: I was wearing a jacket under Mifflin Saver one of
Speaker 1: the season, you know, jackets wrap jackets, and I was
Speaker 1: getting coffee and uh, the brist was like, I love
Speaker 1: your jacket. What you gonna say? I worked on the show.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love this show. Please tell every
Speaker 1: you know. I mean like still to this day, people, uh,
Speaker 1: people are you know more and more actually I should say,
Speaker 1: you know as as do you feel too, because like
Speaker 1: I said, there's another there's a whole generation of of
Speaker 1: people with their kids. I get Facebook messages all the
Speaker 1: times where they're like, just when my kids are watching
Speaker 1: the show, they love it. They've binged it three times.
Speaker 1: You know. Even my god son I got he wanted
Speaker 1: for Christmas a dunder Mifflin hoodie. I had to buy
Speaker 1: one from NBC dot com. Do I have anything anymore?
Speaker 1: I'm like all my swag and autograph stuff. You know,
Speaker 1: he's watched the episodes, he sees me. He hears my
Speaker 1: voice as the documentary, and he sees my name in
Speaker 1: the credits, and we talked stuff. And people are always
Speaker 1: asking me about trivia. And I'm pretty good my memories.
Speaker 1: Like I said, I'm I slip a little bit with
Speaker 1: with people's names. And I don't know if that's just
Speaker 1: age or if like the hard driver is full and overloaded.
Speaker 1: I've got one, I've got I've got one for you.
Speaker 1: This is fun. So people they'll come up. You are
Speaker 1: pretty good with trivia. In fact, we all call you
Speaker 1: the encyclopedia. I have one question. This is my one,
Speaker 1: all right, all right? I was told a while ago
Speaker 1: it is a name one though, so I'm trying careful. Um,
Speaker 1: This was like the finals of some trivia thing someone won.
Speaker 1: They told me the question. I've just decided I'm adopting
Speaker 1: this question. When someone says they know trivia and I
Speaker 1: asked him this question. Okay, you ready, this is for
Speaker 1: one billion dollars. What is Gabe Lewis's middle name? Beverley?
Speaker 1: That was like the right spirit you Now, I think
Speaker 1: the Leslie David Baker. I've had a lot of people
Speaker 1: say Leslie. I'm trying to think. Is Susan Susan Susan
Speaker 1: Gabriel Susan Lewis's there? You go have you? But thank
Speaker 1: you for playing was really really entertaining. Um, dude, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for coming in. You're you're the encyclopedia
Speaker 1: and your knowledge and your passion for the show. You know,
Speaker 1: I think the show in a lot of ways, what
Speaker 1: made it special was how much people cared. It wasn't
Speaker 1: about ego. It was truly about making the best show
Speaker 1: that we could. Yeah, what can you say? I mean, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the show has changed my life in so many ways,
Speaker 1: and it's just you know, I love being a part
Speaker 1: of it. I still love being a part of it,
Speaker 1: and uh, I just love that we we have this,
Speaker 1: this bond because of it. Yeah, all right, thank you Dave.
Speaker 1: What can I say? I could just stand here and
Speaker 1: listen to you on a podcast all day. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for coming by. It was so great to
Speaker 1: see you and to well to hear from you, and
Speaker 1: to all of you out there, Thank you for listening
Speaker 1: to another episode of the Office Deep Dive. I hope
Speaker 1: you have the best week possible and to cap off
Speaker 1: that amazing week, you can come back next Tuesday to
Speaker 1: hear part two of my conversation with our wonderful writer
Speaker 1: Jen Salanta. The Office Deep Dive is hosted and executive
Speaker 1: produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Lang Lee.
Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer. Our producers are Diego
Speaker 1: Tapia and Liz Hayes. My main man in the booth
Speaker 1: is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed
Speaker 1: by my great friend Cree Bratton, and the episode was
Speaker 1: mixed by seth Olandskip Hey Dana Goodyear here. Have you
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