WEBVTT - OpenAI and Microsoft, Bitcoin, and Planes 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:04.360 Bloomberg is now on your dashboard with Apple CarPlay and 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:08.160 Android Auto. It gives you access to every Bloomberg podcast, 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:11.560 live audio feeds from Bloomberg Radio, print stories from Bloomberg 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:14.920 News in audio form, and the latest headlines of the 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:18.600 click of a button with Bloomberg News. Now it's free 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:21.439 with the latest version of the Bloomberg Business App. That's 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:24.400 the Bloomberg Business App. Get it on your phone in 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:27.760 the Apple App Store or on Google Play. Just download 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:30.560 the app, connect your phone to your car and get started. 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.400 And it's all presented by our sponsor, Interactive Brokers. 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:38.600 Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:39.800 my co host Matt Miller. 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:44.279 Every business day we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros, 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:48.160 and Bloomberg experts, along with essential market moving news. 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.839 Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast called Apple Podcasts or wherever 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:54.560 you listen to podcasts, and at Bloomberg dot com, slash 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:58.320 podcast open AI. This is the story of the morning. 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:00.040 I'm going to assume most people will figure it. I 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:03.480 have kind of seen the news right now. It looks 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:06.680 like Microsoft might be a little bit of a winner here. 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:08.360 So we're going to round Table to sing ed Ludlow, 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:12.560 he's host to Bloomberg Technology and Mandeep saying he's our 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:16.520 senior technology analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence. So Mandib at this 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:19.240 stage and it's still a very fluid situation, I'm not 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:21.520 even sure where the employees are going from open Ai, 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:25.000 whether they're staying at the existing thing or whether they're 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:28.080 going to go over to Microsoft. I'm not even sure 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:31.479 where Sam Altman is. But it appears that Microsoft hired 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:35.160 by Microsoft. We'll see. I'm waiting to see, like triple confirmation. 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:39.080 Zatcha n Adella confirmed it. He's the CEO of Microsoft. 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:39.720 It can be going. 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:40.640 I don't know where these guys. 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:41.400 It's Silicon Valley. 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:43.400 The kids don't know what they're doing. Mandib, it seems 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:46.559 like it's a win win win for Microsoft here, what's 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:47.280 your take. 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:50.880 Actually, we sort of disagree with that consensus. Few that 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:55.640 nice for Microsoft simply because you know, when you are 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:59.320 acquiring talent like this, it's not the best way to 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:02.080 you know, build a new product. And in this case, 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:04.920 the IP still remains with open Ai, so it's not 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:07.320 as if they can poured over the large anchorage model, 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:11.000 which is really the key to building the ecosystem, they 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:13.839 will have to build it from scratch. And remember, when 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:17.840 you're training AI, you need, yes, the infrastructure, but you 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:21.320 also need large amounts of data. And Microsoft mader like 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.840 three months to make Rock Well. So Twitter had a 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.080 lot of their own data. So that's what it comes 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.240 down to. Can they build a model just based on 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:32.560 being data? The answer is no. And that's where. 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:33.120 I think why not? 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:36.600 Because Bing has a lot of data. 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:40.720 Look at how long Bing had had integration with open 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.720 ai Chat GPT. Still they haven't been able to take 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:47.840 any share from Google, and Microsoft's CEO admitted that that 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:52.359 despite the integration with open Ali and and so clearly 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:55.480 there is a lot more to open AI's IP than 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:59.959 what we know. And that's why it's a proprietary foundational model, 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:02.200 unlike Madawslama, which is open source. 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:04.480 So there all right, So I want to bring in 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:07.639 Ed Ludlow if for no other reason then he's literally 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.800 in Silicon Valley and Ed, your job right now is 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:14.440 explain to me why I or anybody else in this 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:18.280 country should care about what's happening it opened ai and 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:19.399 Sam Maltman. 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:21.760 Have you cared about anything else all weekend? 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:22.519 Yeah? 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:23.080 That's well. 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:26.320 I mean, you know, to my credit, chaps, I am 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:29.760 on almost every single byline that we've written since Friday lunchtime. 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:36.760 So forgive my dower mood. But look, this is what's 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:40.280 at stake, billions of dollars of value in the private markets. 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:46.800 The elimination of a company that is the clear market 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:51.520 incumbent for both consumer facing and enterprise tools that are 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:54.200 powered by a large language model and are presented in 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:56.520 the form of a chatbot or generator of AI tool. 0:03:57.080 --> 0:03:58.800 And third of all, there will be a. 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:04.200 Massive spotlight on my Microsoft because the question will remain 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:05.960 do they buy the rest of it? Well, what we 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:08.160 reported over the weekend is that when all of this 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:09.800 wrangling was go on, and we can get into it, 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:12.760 I've got some great gossip for you guys. But the 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:17.040 principal consideration was Sam wanted the board to resign. They didn't. 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:19.680 They dug in and he did not come back. But 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:22.400 one offer on the table was whether Microsoft or not 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:24.799 took a board seat, And the reason that they didn't, 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:27.280 I'm told by sources, is that there would just be 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:31.680 too much scrutiny from an antitrust perspective, too much concentration 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:35.520 of influence of a company that is leading the direction 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:36.960 of AI in the real world. 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:38.280 That's what we're talking about here. 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:41.760 Well, now they get most of the company for free, right. 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:44.200 I mean, I'm interested to hear what you've been hearing, 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:47.080 and I know that you. First of all, Ed, I've 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:49.560 been reading everything you've been writing, and thank you for 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:51.479 the work. I can't believe you've had any sleep, and 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:52.440 you look amazing. 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:55.159 I apologize for that because I haven't had any sleep. 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:55.720 That's why I'm. 0:04:56.279 --> 0:05:00.200 Secondly, to me, it looks like Microsoft now gets that's 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:06.320 Altman and Brockman and maybe five hundred other employees pretty 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:07.360 much for salaries. 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:07.640 Right. 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:10.600 I guess maybe a signing bonus, but they don't have 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:13.320 to spend eighty six billion dollars or even if you 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:17.000 take out their thirteen you know, seventy three billion dollars. 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:19.159 Isn't that a huge win? 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:20.360 Right? 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:25.560 Open AI has seven hundred and seventy employees. Five hundred 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:27.800 of those have signed a letter to the board this morning, 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:30.760 which I've seen, saying that if the board doesn't resign, 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.880 those five hundred will resign and they will go to Microsoft. 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:38.919 When Satya Nadella posted on X last night, he buried 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:41.760 the lead. It was a very long statement. The idea 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.680 that Sam and Greg Brockman, the former chair of open 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.120 AI's board, were joining Microsoft, was right at the bottom. 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:49.800 But there was very clear language there, and I'd ask 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:51.760 the audience to go and look out for it. It 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:55.680 said those two with others joining from open Ai. 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:59.240 Satya said it last night. So that's a very real risk. 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:01.159 And what I would say is that at the core 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:04.679 of this story is the open aies almost the entirety 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:07.279 of its value. And Mande may disagree here, but the 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.120 entirety of its value that the investors outlined to me 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:14.120 is its intellectual capital. If you take those top ten 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:17.880 data scientists and the top product guys, which is Sam Outman, 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:20.840 and you take them somewhere else, open has ai has 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:23.239 nothing left. That's what we're talking about here. 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:25.800 Okay, I'm looking at the ip that mandplay. 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:27.880 That's what I'm saying. Many if I'm looking at Microsoft stock, 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:30.280 it's only up seven ten to one percent, I would 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:32.000 have thought it a up ten percent or more. 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:33.719 Why do you think that is? 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:37.279 And look, Opening Eye has a lot of other investors too, 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:41.000 So granted Microsoft owns forty nine percent of the company, 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.840 but there are other investors, the private rounds that they 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:45.799 had before Microsoft got on board. 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:47.520 And so I think, by the way, can I just 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:51.360 ask clearly clarify the Microsoft owns forty nine percent of 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:56.440 the for profit unit in the nonprofit structure or do 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:58.440 they own forty nine percent of the whole thing? 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:00.800 Forty nine percent of the whole thing? But Ed can 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:04.200 confirm if that's he has a different point of view. 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:08.320 Well, on paper, on paper, the on the balance sheet 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:12.240 of Microsoft, it will show that the open aillc or 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:14.600 the incorporated for profit business. 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:17.720 But again the audience, there's a. 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:20.080 Ven diagram or a diagram out there, sorry, not a 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:23.240 ven diagram that sets it out. And you can say, 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:25.960 but man Deep is right, forty nine percent Microsoft holds. 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:29.160 I'd make one observation that the other fifty one percent 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.200 on the cap table. My understanding is that even the 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:36.320 biggest individual shareholders from a venture firm perspective own less 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.040 than one percent each, which is another reason that this 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:40.440 is so chaotic right now. 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:41.920 Right an Alman says he on none. 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:44.560 Well, so, I mean, look, at the end of the day, 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:47.600 there is a lot of ip within open the eye. 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:50.360 If the employees leave, they can't take that IP. And 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:53.120 that's the thing about a tech company is you know, 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.400 if I have an algorithm or a model that's within 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:59.880 a company until unless Microsoft ends up buying that company, 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:03.200 they don't have rights to the open ai foundational model 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:06.400 and for employees to recreate that. Let's say the five 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:11.040 hundred employees recreate that model within six months, what is 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:13.640 your IP? I mean any other company can do it then. 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:17.160 So it puts Microsoft in a tough spot because one, 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:20.680 on the one hand, it could show that AI large 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:23.360 arid models are a commodity. On the other hand, they 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:26.280 may have to buy the whole company for eighty billion 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:29.080 because the other fifty one percent want a good exit. 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:30.480 They don't want the company to die. 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:34.679 Act at third thirty seconds, what are you reporting on? 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:36.120 What are you guys working on today? What are you 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:36.680 chasing today? 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.240 Okay, the big thing is going to be private markets. 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:41.680 There was a tender that was open for hundreds of 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.400 billions of dollars for employees of open ai to sell 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:47.640 shares to thrive capital. My understanding is that is very 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:51.040 much in doubt. Friday, the market for private open ai 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:52.920 stock was incredibly liquid, very. 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:54.960 Un in doubt. It's probably a way to say it. 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:59.080 Yes, that liquidity slams shot Friday while I was having 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:01.200 lunch with a so who is trying to buy in 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:04.400 that market, look out for that. People are going to 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:07.000 get burned. These are transactions that were pending and will 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:07.720 now not go through. 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:10.560 I'd say got burned. Yeah, story is over ed. 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:12.079 Thank you so much for joining us, and I know 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:14.080 you're busy ed Ludlow and your team out there for 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:18.199 Bloomberg Technology man deep seeing senior technology annels for Bloomberg Intelligence. 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.880 Appreciate getting you two folks together as we continue to 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:23.200 report on this dynamic technology story. 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:27.760 You're listening to the team Ken's are Live program Bloomberg 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:31.240 Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:34.480 the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:36.760 on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:40.280 All Right, So Matt and I were just talking like 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:42.720 one of the key fundamental issues here in this open 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:45.760 AI seems to be the debate within open AI and 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:48.280 within the tech industry and with I guess just kind 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:52.000 of the tech world in general about AI weighing commercialization 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:55.240 versus the fact that this in could end civilization. So 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:57.520 that seems to be getting a little bit lost here 0:09:57.520 --> 0:09:59.160 in some of the reporting here today. Maybe our next 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:01.480 guest can help us out. Jim Anderson. He's the CEO 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:03.240 of Beacon Software. He joins his life here in our 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:06.360 Bloomberg Interactive Brooker's studio. So, Jim, how do you, guys, 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:08.880 you know, in that space, in the software space, how 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:12.199 do you think about AI in terms of commercializing it 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:16.400 but by also being cognizant of the potential risk it 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:16.960 could posed. 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:19.520 Yeah, Paul, it won't surprise you to hear that we 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:21.880 think first about commercializing it, right, Because if you can't 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:24.840 commercialize it, you don't have anything to really worry about, right. 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:28.079 So in the eyes of a sort of capitalist or 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:30.600 a private sector person, you tend to focus on that first. 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:33.400 I think one of the things social media has taught 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.400 us is, hey, let's not collectively be so naive about 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:38.719 the negatives. Let's not wait a decade and see what 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:41.559 damage we've wrought and then see if we can undo it. 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:45.640 So I do think there's including with private sector, capitalistic companies, 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.600 there's a lot more willingness to try to anticipate those 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:52.000 negative effects. But you know, the open eye example is 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:55.360 an extreme example of a capitalistic company worth reportedly eighty 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:58.520 billion dollars according to Microsoft, run by a nonprofit with 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.800 a very different sensibility. And it's not really surprising that 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:03.880 you ended up with a very different view of the world. 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:06.280 Well, and as we know, with social media, you just 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:08.520 can't put the genie back in the bottle, right. And 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:13.000 the problem is where social media seems to now in hindsight, 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:17.040 be a cancer on society that we can't cure. AI 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:22.440 could be like a massive cardiac arrest. I mean, it 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:26.240 could just kill us all. But no one can care 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:29.240 about that anymore since we can make money on it today. 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:32.640 It doesn't matter if it's going to destroy society in uh, 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:34.000 you know, decades. 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:36.200 Yeah, I don't know that. I would agree that nobody 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:37.439 can care about it anymore. 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:38.480 But you can care. 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:41.280 But you can't do anything if you can't stop stop, right. 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:43.200 But I think it's it's interesting. I mean, you know 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:45.760 that we could have a debate about Skynet and whether 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:48.360 you know the end of humanity, how likely that is 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:51.240 to happen. I think the risk of that is it 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:54.959 misses you know, if everything is the extinction of humanity. 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:56.040 Or or or not. 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:58.040 I mean, you know, you've you've sort of dialed it 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:00.160 up to eleven, right, there's nothing less than that. I 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:02.360 think there are plenty of near term harms that are 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.839 much more likely that will happen much more quickly that 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:08.400 we run the risk of glossing over and think about it, right, 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.280 remember the early days of email, right, you know, Wow, 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:15.600 this is amazing. I can communicate with people, and then scammers, grifters, fraudsters, 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:18.319 and marketers decided, hey, I can send a billion emails 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:20.240 for the same price as one and all of our 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:23.400 inboxes started being flooded. Well now, basically content creation is 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:27.440 effectively free with the chat, GPT and those kinds of tools. 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:30.400 With AI, now, I think the entire Internet runs the 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:34.480 risk of being flooded with spam, misinformation, and just garbage. 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.160 And we're all going to have a very pragmatic challenge, 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:39.760 you know, sort of managing through that. Never mind the 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.559 terrible potential long term use cases. Just in the near term, 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:45.520 we're going to have a lot of real problems because 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:47.600 bad actors are going to take these tools and do 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:48.560 bad things with them. 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:52.000 So open or just AI in general, I mean with 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:56.640 open AI, I guess as we speak part of Microsoft. 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:00.400 Now what are the competitors out there and just an artificialgens? 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:02.679 What are the competitors and does it change? It seems 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:05.040 like it's got to change the competitive landscape. 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:05.960 No doubt it will. 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:07.520 I mean you you want to say, okay, what are 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.559 the chatbot competitors who are building large language models that 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:14.720 you know Google's got Barred Anthropic was a former AI person. Uh, 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:16.280 you know, there's a there's a couple of them out there, 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:18.199 but you know, building your own large language models like 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:20.200 a billion dollar proposition. So it's not going to be 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:22.640 dozens of these things. It's a it's a big tech 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:25.360 kind of investment. But I think what's interesting is you 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:27.160 raise a point about you know, we all tend to 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:29.680 think of AI in terms of chat, GPT and chatbots, 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.280 and that's really amazing and it's got some really interesting 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:37.080 use cases, but think about other worlds like transportation, healthcare, manufacturing. 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.840 AI has the ability to transform those industries. Traffic, Like, 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:43.240 imagine a world where autonomous vehicles and those have their 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:47.040 own sets of challenges, can untangle traffic in big cities 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:49.160 and we no longer have to sit in traffic jams. 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:53.079 Imagine a world where you know, radiologists don't miss scans 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:55.960 on X rays or MRIs and things like that. I mean, 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.079 you know, there's plenty of use cases where AI can 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:02.600 truly help humanity and substantive powerful ways that have nothing 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.320 to do with chatbots that are powered by AI and 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:07.000 these underlying large language models. 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.240 So the large language model or the data set, I 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.959 guess is the most important issue that you deal with. 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:16.600 How do you look at this from Beacon software perspective? 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:19.960 Like what data sets are the most important? You know, 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:21.520 which ones do you want to get a hold of? 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:25.600 Which ones can we not touch? Yeah, it's such a huge. 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.600 Issue, right, Yeah, it is, And we've specialized in transportation, right, 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.280 so we're working with state dots Georgia and other states 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.360 to say, okay, how are you going to untangle traffic 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.400 mainly in your big cities, which is where you've got it. 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:37.400 Well, they're actually a wash in data. 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:39.640 They've got more data than they know what to do with, 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.440 than they can effectively store, than they can effectively harness. 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:45.800 And what's AI great at taking a massive data set 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.440 and making sense of it? And these connected vehicles now, 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:50.640 think about it. Every time you've got a Tesla on 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:52.600 the road. Every time you turn your windshield wipers on, 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:55.520 there's a signal right there that's been captured. 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:57.640 And you say, well, who cares? Well, guess what if 0:14:57.640 --> 0:14:59.520 you harnessed every vehicle on the road and you knew 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:01.520 when they're winch wipers were on? At what level? 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:04.960 You now have a hyper local precipitation map that's the 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:06.440 likes of which nobody else has. 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:07.120 Right, It is awesome. 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:10.160 So those times are that right, But you've got to 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:11.640 be able to capture the data. You've got to be 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.120 able to intelligently use the data, and you've got to 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:15.960 not be able to drown in the data, which is 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.000 what everybody is facing right now. And AI, to oversimplify, 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:22.280 AI has the AI ability to keep you from drowning 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:23.360 and data like you have been. 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:29.520 Is there who's thinking about how AI should be managed? 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:30.160 Regulated? 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:31.960 Is anybody thinking about that out there? 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:34.120 There's lots of thinking that. The question is anybody doing 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:36.360 anything about it? So I think, you know, again, let's 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:40.240 give credit where credits do. I think regulators, legislators, and 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.760 even the companies themselves are thinking about it, are talking 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:45.200 about it, and I think there's legitimate criticism. Great, you 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:46.520 just want to think and talk about it and never 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:48.160 do anything as a way of deflecting. 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:51.840 You know, the EU of course takes a leadership. 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:53.920 Role and a lot of things around privacy and data protection, 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:56.040 all that would stand a reason they might take a 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:58.280 more aggressive and they already have, you know, started to 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:02.280 take steps towards a more aggressive position than the US. 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.280 I think you're going to ask the big We're going 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:07.680 to ask the big tech companies to be more responsible 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:08.440 and maybe sign up. 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.520 To a higher standard than we would have a decade ago. 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:14.880 Okay, Microsoft, Okay, Google, Okay, Facebook, Meta, you know those 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:17.640 types of companies, We're going to expect more out of them. 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:19.360 But I think at the end of the day, especially 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:21.320 in the US, ultimately Congress is going to have to 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:24.600 get involved in Yeah, that they have a few. 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:26.840 Issues questioning coming from our Congress. 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.640 I won't mention there are a few I can definitely imagine, 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:32.480 but it's a horror show thinking about it. 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:34.000 So how long, Jim. 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:40.720 Until we have real leaps forward in like autonomous driving? 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:44.040 And I mean the real question is how long is 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:46.400 it going to be until we have far fewer deaths 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:47.440 from traffic accidents? 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:49.640 Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that because We've got forty 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:52.200 three thousand people a year die on US roads. 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:54.200 It is a public health crisis. 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:56.040 I mean, people don't typically think about it that way, 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:58.920 and those are human driven cars, so there's a crying 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:01.680 need for that. But we saw lost over the weekend 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.440 in all of the open AI news cruise. The Robotaxi 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:07.920 company CEO stepped down. I don't know if you saw that. Yeah, yeah, 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:11.720 but controversy because they were not open and transparent. There 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:14.280 was an incident involving a robot taxi in San Francisco. 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.959 Somebody was seriously injured. They didn't really quite disclose what happened, 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:20.320 and so they lost trust there. And so it's striking 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.000 to me this sort of everybody wants to move fast, 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:25.280 but if you move too fast, you end up going slower, right, 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:27.120 because all you're going to do is create a backlash. 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:30.160 You're going to set the entire industry back year or two. 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.520 I don't know what the timeframe will be, but I 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.120 think it's critical that companies involved in Tesla is being 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:37.600 maybe the most notable of this around US autonomous driving 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.520 is running the risk of sort of poisoning the well 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:43.159 and setting things back because they're being too aggressive and 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:45.600 to the beginning of our conversation, right, what does big 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.359 tech do? They just know how to do big tech right. 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.160 They go fast. I'm a private sector company. I've got 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:53.560 to grab adoption while it's there. I've got to move fast. 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:55.800 You know what's the famous line Facebook at move fast 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:58.399 and break things right until they realized they broke something 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:00.360 to maybe signific. 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:02.040 Exactly all right, Jim, thanks so much for joining us. 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:04.440 Jim Anderson. He's the CEO of Beacon Software. His job 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.080 is to fix the traffic in Atlanta, Georgia. Good luck 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:07.320 with that. 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:10.879 You're listening to the tape Cat's are live program Bloomberg 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:14.520 Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:17.800 tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business app. 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.680 You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:25.760 flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:30.480 We have Matt Matt Siegel in here. He is the 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:33.840 head of I guess cryptoanalysis over at van Neck. What's 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:37.280 your official title at van Neck, head of Digital assets Research? 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:37.959 You got it. 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:42.080 I was pretty close, and I mean before we get 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.400 into anything else, when are we gonna see these ETFs 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:50.119