Speaker 1: Wind Down with Jane Kramer and Michael Cosson and I
Speaker 1: heard Radio and People's Choice Awards nominated podcast What our Team? Well,
Speaker 1: hello everybody, we're just like silent, going what's happening? I
Speaker 1: think the whole everybody is thinking that, wow, what a
Speaker 1: nice what a wow? I think I think everybody. I
Speaker 1: don't even know what to say. I'm about to take
Speaker 1: a shot of a lemon, ginger and cayenne pepper. You're
Speaker 1: gonna say tequila shot at tequila to start this show.
Speaker 1: I've never done a shot at Tila Tequila. You want
Speaker 1: to take these? I think we're just gonna let you
Speaker 1: guys be uncomfortable for a few minutes and then we'll
Speaker 1: see how it's going. Hello, So grass, there's no women?
Speaker 1: Hy that was bad? Um? Alright, So, I mean obviously
Speaker 1: the elephant in the room. UM, I will be very honest.
Speaker 1: I've I'm just I have a lot of anxiety around it.
Speaker 1: Had an anxiety attack this morning, I think. Um, I mean,
Speaker 1: going into last week's episode, we we're not going to
Speaker 1: share what was going on. UM. I was honestly shocked
Speaker 1: that you shared, Mike because of how real it was.
Speaker 1: But I understand why you did, because our whole thing
Speaker 1: is that we want to help people. But I think
Speaker 1: it was a massive lesson learned for Mike and I
Speaker 1: and not be so real time because we weren't united
Speaker 1: and we were still It's like, I think it's okay
Speaker 1: to share scars, but I think when you have a
Speaker 1: wound that's still open, I think that's I see now
Speaker 1: on the outside of it, like that was not a
Speaker 1: good thing. I think we should have saved that for
Speaker 1: another time when we were in a better place. And
Speaker 1: I understand that it has helped a lot of people,
Speaker 1: and I get that, and I'm so glad that it has,
Speaker 1: but it also has hurt worse because of the public
Speaker 1: conversation around it and the people and because of where
Speaker 1: I'm still at with it. It's made my anxiety worse.
Speaker 1: It's made me feel more confused, and so I think
Speaker 1: it's just and it's just kind of like put more
Speaker 1: salt in the wound. So I mean, looking back, like
Speaker 1: I wish we would have waited to share some and
Speaker 1: I think that's the kind of a lesson learned for us,
Speaker 1: because you know, there's people out there thinking Mike actually cheated,
Speaker 1: and it's like girl yeah, so it's like, so it's
Speaker 1: just you know, or or the people are like he's
Speaker 1: never going to stop eating on you, like you should leave,
Speaker 1: like and it's just like they only see the headline
Speaker 1: and not actually what happened. And then you know, I
Speaker 1: have so many and I love my friends for texting me.
Speaker 1: I love people that I haven't talked to in a
Speaker 1: while reach out to me. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: some of it's been oh yeah, my husband, he relapsed
Speaker 1: again too, and I'm just like, and then I start
Speaker 1: getting in that cycle of this is the world that
Speaker 1: I'm in and this is it's going to keep happening,
Speaker 1: and so then I start to just feed the wound,
Speaker 1: and you know, to the point this morning where I
Speaker 1: was just like, I I just need to take a
Speaker 1: break from looking at messages, looking at being so because
Speaker 1: I'm like, I just my anxiety and I hope, like
Speaker 1: and Mike knows this too, I was like, I don't.
Speaker 1: I honestly just don't even know where I'm at, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't think he'll I don't know, because it's just
Speaker 1: it's hard because he'll always say, well, I'm gonna it
Speaker 1: won't happen again. It's like I've heard that so many times,
Speaker 1: but I think maybe now he sees how bad that
Speaker 1: wound is for me and the trauma of finding things,
Speaker 1: whether he did something or not. I just like, I'm
Speaker 1: to the point of like a literally a nervous breakdown
Speaker 1: where I just can't physically handle it anymore. And that's
Speaker 1: not the strength that I want to portray to my daughter,
Speaker 1: to myself, to anyone else out there too. So hopefully,
Speaker 1: I mean, we've had this conversation, but it's still you know,
Speaker 1: It's just that was the risky part about opening that.
Speaker 1: Do you agree? Mm hmm. I'm sorry you're going through that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I appreciate it. It's just it's just hard
Speaker 1: because I'm just like, and you know, I told Michael
Speaker 1: the other day, I was just like, I don't believe
Speaker 1: that there won't be another time, and that sucks to
Speaker 1: like have to feel that because I've just how do
Speaker 1: I believe that when I've heard so many times I'll
Speaker 1: never do it again. I'll never do it again. So
Speaker 1: it kind of puts me in this really awkward situation
Speaker 1: and it makes me look weak and to have to
Speaker 1: be like continuing to stick around whether he did something
Speaker 1: or he didn't, and I believe that he didn't. I believe,
Speaker 1: I know it wasn't a real person. I know all
Speaker 1: those things, but it's still it doesn't matter. It's just
Speaker 1: the the is it weak to stay? Couldn't it be considered.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's weak to stay. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: it's weak to leave. I'm just saying for me personally,
Speaker 1: where I'm out and how many times I'm now like
Speaker 1: it's weakening me by staying. You say you're you're not
Speaker 1: convinced that what happened again? But what you mean by
Speaker 1: that is you're not saying you're not convinced you what
Speaker 1: cheat again? You're not convinced he won't keep something from
Speaker 1: you again? Right? Yeah? And that's and that, unfortunately is
Speaker 1: the issue. It's like he's like, I didn't. I was like,
Speaker 1: I know, you didn't. I was like, but what is
Speaker 1: just the trauma for me is not him acting out
Speaker 1: the other women. Sure that would hurt, but the trauma
Speaker 1: that I've had in this relationship is the finding out things.
Speaker 1: And that's what I just truly I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't even care how little it is. That is just
Speaker 1: the feeling of that again. Is so traumatic because of
Speaker 1: the past that it's just I and from this last time,
Speaker 1: like the amount of anxiety and and the like, I
Speaker 1: hope you see that I'm not physically able to handle
Speaker 1: another episode like that because it's just two it's it's
Speaker 1: it just goes back to all the trauma from from
Speaker 1: the discovery and it's just it's it's overwhelming, which is
Speaker 1: you know obviously why I got upset last week's podcast. Um,
Speaker 1: but I think you see that now, yeah, And I
Speaker 1: just I think my fear is you know where why
Speaker 1: I'm kind of like depressed in a little like anxious
Speaker 1: written is because I you know, I've been told that
Speaker 1: won't happen again, and I I just fear I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't I can't trust that. And I think that's
Speaker 1: where my anxiety comes in, is because when I can't
Speaker 1: us something, I get more anxious and I want to
Speaker 1: be able to trust. And I understand too that people
Speaker 1: make mistakes and people I'm like, I'm not asking him
Speaker 1: to be perfect, but I need him to understand how
Speaker 1: deep that wound is for me. When I discover something,
Speaker 1: no matter if he did something or not, that is
Speaker 1: just like it's painful and it I I just can't
Speaker 1: like physically hold that anymore. So, I mean we've talked
Speaker 1: a little bit about it, and it's just it's just
Speaker 1: that weird kind of like we're not as close because
Speaker 1: I think I'm just it's hard to lean in when
Speaker 1: I'm scared of leaning in to someone that I don't
Speaker 1: know if I can trust or not. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: So where do we go from here? I mean, you
Speaker 1: work through this in therapy as a couple, right, and
Speaker 1: that's and that's hopefully you'll be able to get to
Speaker 1: that place again. Because what you're saying now doesn't selling
Speaker 1: things are great now and it doesn't sound very hopeful.
Speaker 1: But is their hope here? That's your question? Answer? No,
Speaker 1: it shouldn't just be on me. It's the work that
Speaker 1: you know we both have to do. It's not do
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, So I think. I
Speaker 1: mean I just told him I kind of just where
Speaker 1: I was at, and like, again, I'm not I need
Speaker 1: to see because it's like you're saying, I'll never do
Speaker 1: it again, or you'll never put you in that position again.
Speaker 1: I can't believe. So I need to see something else
Speaker 1: to show me something different. So is it a different
Speaker 1: type of therapy. Is it a different type of communication,
Speaker 1: Is it a different type of something where then I
Speaker 1: can kind of have a little bit more safety around
Speaker 1: feeling like I can trust you. Whether you delete, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just again. And I know for people that don't understand,
Speaker 1: you're like, who cares he deleted it? But it's like
Speaker 1: just the again. The trauma and the PTSD from discovering
Speaker 1: things a lot and frequently through the past couple of
Speaker 1: years is just added up to be so traumatic each
Speaker 1: time and wounding that it just doesn't feel safe. And
Speaker 1: when I don't feel safe, that's not a good environment
Speaker 1: for our kids. It's not a good environment for me.
Speaker 1: It's not a good environment from Mike, And I just
Speaker 1: want to somehow. What I think, what I'm trying to
Speaker 1: find is what what will look different, what's going to
Speaker 1: look different that it's not just him saying I won't
Speaker 1: do it again, because I can't hang my hat on that,
Speaker 1: and I am genuinely fearful that there will be the
Speaker 1: next time and how and then knowing this, like I
Speaker 1: think that scares me too, because I'm like, I don't
Speaker 1: want our relationship to end. I am hopeful and I
Speaker 1: want to be hopeful, but I'm also I think I'm
Speaker 1: more scared than hopeful because I don't know what I
Speaker 1: can I don't know. I don't know, but I guess
Speaker 1: I'll let you speak on that. And I didn't know
Speaker 1: we're gonna adopt so much into this. Well, I don't
Speaker 1: think we really had a choice. Yeah, um, Mike, yeah,
Speaker 1: you haven't said much. But you must be hopeful for
Speaker 1: this situation, right, you must have? Oh yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I am for sure, all right, for sure. I mean
Speaker 1: I told you this morning. I regret. Uh, I regret
Speaker 1: that we shared last week. I do. It's done more
Speaker 1: damage than it has good hands down sharing it has, yes,
Speaker 1: when in the past it's it's brought us together, um,
Speaker 1: but this hasn't. And unfortunately it's like I don't even know.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's part of the benefit of me not
Speaker 1: being on social media is I don't see even a
Speaker 1: small percentage of the stuff that Janna has to see
Speaker 1: or deal with from comments or headlines or whatever. And
Speaker 1: I don't actively look it up because I just don't care.
Speaker 1: But knowing what that stuff is done to Janna, not
Speaker 1: that she hangs her head on that stuff either, but
Speaker 1: it doesn't help the situation. The fact that it's impossible
Speaker 1: to ignore that stuff no matter what someone has, the
Speaker 1: fact that people are I didn't even know this is
Speaker 1: news to me that people are reaching out to Janna
Speaker 1: is saying that say whatever, that I'm probably still cheating
Speaker 1: or or I'll never stop or what. I'm like, are
Speaker 1: you kidding me? But again, those people I don't like,
Speaker 1: they're like, sex addiction isn't a real thing. And then
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, like they don't they don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: they don't know. Well, Michael, that's not very nice to say.
Speaker 1: I don't care. It's not nice to say they thing,
Speaker 1: but abolition bullietably, I stay, I stay pretty political, and
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, you don't bullietably, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I think those people are misinformed, and I feel bad
Speaker 1: that they're misinformed. I don't hang my hat on that way.
Speaker 1: I have a hard time with this, like the people
Speaker 1: that kind of if you're bringing it up, you're still
Speaker 1: it still has a carries weight with you if we're
Speaker 1: being on it. Like the stuff that carries weight for
Speaker 1: me is the wives that are like with other addicts.
Speaker 1: Those are the things that and again like this is
Speaker 1: what's what I think what he's saying is we share
Speaker 1: because we want to help. And I think, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously with regret with this is we shared too soon
Speaker 1: because we weren't united, like I said. But the part
Speaker 1: that has hurt and been great At the same time,
Speaker 1: I love that people have reached out. I love that
Speaker 1: so much. But at the same time reading those things
Speaker 1: and being like, yeah, my husband just you know, same thing,
Speaker 1: and he lied and I'm just or one didn't lie,
Speaker 1: and then it's that kind of back and forth ward.
Speaker 1: It's just I love to help, but at the same time,
Speaker 1: I'm still dealing with my stuff, in our stuff that
Speaker 1: it's that it's hard because it's like I'm hearing of
Speaker 1: another husband's relapse and I'm hearing of another husband's you
Speaker 1: know this, and it's like, especially with the addiction piece,
Speaker 1: it just makes it that much harder. So it's like
Speaker 1: I'm trying to be strong for these other women that
Speaker 1: are reaching out to me, but at the same time,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm still in kind of shambles, so and
Speaker 1: it's just kind of it feeds it a little bit.
Speaker 1: As opposed to when we were stronger with our with
Speaker 1: coming out on things, and we were able to be
Speaker 1: more solid in it. And so I think because I'm
Speaker 1: a little uncertain of our relationship or the the you know,
Speaker 1: the if it will never happen again, which again I
Speaker 1: doubt the that's that's safety with it. So that's where
Speaker 1: that's where it starts to feed into my insecurity and
Speaker 1: my anxiety. Is there anything that could make you feel
Speaker 1: more secure? I'm trying to sort of think on it,
Speaker 1: and I don't know the answer or is it even
Speaker 1: working on you where you feel? Yeah, I mean I'm
Speaker 1: starting um an E M. D R for just the
Speaker 1: trauma around discovery because I think that's such a heavy
Speaker 1: piece for me. But um, you know, with Mike too,
Speaker 1: I think he's going to try other things that will help,
Speaker 1: hopefully in situations and him knowing I think now the
Speaker 1: depth of where my trauma goes with discovery, maybe that
Speaker 1: will be helpful with him. Not um we're maybe not
Speaker 1: just thinking of you know, thinking of himself. I guess
Speaker 1: with it too, right, Like I was thinking, like what
Speaker 1: if he journals and then you were able to read
Speaker 1: that journal, you know what I mean? Where that way
Speaker 1: he doesn't have to like Let's say he gets that
Speaker 1: text and he writes it in a journal like I
Speaker 1: got this text, This is so stressful for me, I
Speaker 1: delete it whatever, and then you read that, so that
Speaker 1: way the confrontation might be easier on him. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of things that would because it
Speaker 1: I understood Mike's position to where he deleted it because
Speaker 1: he wanted it to be gone and he didn't want
Speaker 1: to hurt you. Yeah, no, I get that. I I do.
Speaker 1: I understand that too. It's unfortunate that both can be
Speaker 1: you can both, we can both understand both those things. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: there's just that the boundary of which you know things
Speaker 1: shouldn't be deleted, and then the repercussions of how I've said,
Speaker 1: like finding things is more traumatic for me than the
Speaker 1: actual act. Well, and even if your brain understands something,
Speaker 1: your heart can still be broken by the same thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, anything, Mike, Because I feel a little left
Speaker 1: out in the in the ocean today. Um M know.
Speaker 1: I just again, I was sure how much we're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about this, and I think it's just right now.
Speaker 1: I Mean, all I can do is be as empathetic
Speaker 1: as I can with you and understanding and do whatever
Speaker 1: I need to do to continue to create safety around things.
Speaker 1: And I'm just I'm having a hard time. And I
Speaker 1: you know, I said this the other day when Jane
Speaker 1: and I did a quick interview with Billy Bush on Extra,
Speaker 1: and I was just like, I'm tired of looking like
Speaker 1: the bad guy. And it's you know, and I mean,
Speaker 1: I do it to myself with these situations. So I
Speaker 1: get that, but it's the fact that things are getting
Speaker 1: blown to the degree that they are. It's just it's
Speaker 1: just like every man has his breaking point. Again, I stay,
Speaker 1: I stayed very very above board and political when it
Speaker 1: comes to my reaction to to certain things and in
Speaker 1: handling and not acknowledging uh trolls or headlines or just
Speaker 1: though if it makes you feel any better, the comments
Speaker 1: are Jane is a weak piece of she's so stupid,
Speaker 1: she's she's an idiot. First, Like they're being mean to me.
Speaker 1: I understand, you're not wanted to feel like a bad person,
Speaker 1: like and I get that, but like, just know that,
Speaker 1: Like it's not easy on my side either. I'm not
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it is. Well, we live in a
Speaker 1: t l DR world right now. Too long, didn't read,
Speaker 1: and people just glanced at the headline and draw all
Speaker 1: the conclusions they need to draw. And I peo don't
Speaker 1: even read the headline anymore. They just kind of get
Speaker 1: some key words and just make their whole opinion off
Speaker 1: of it. Sex. And there was only on that said that,
Speaker 1: and it was actually a sports one. What happens is
Speaker 1: there was one, but it's all the other ones were right,
Speaker 1: it's so loud. Yeah, all the other ones just said,
Speaker 1: you know, topless. You know, Janet Cramer finds a topless
Speaker 1: photo on Mike's phone. So that's just what they That's
Speaker 1: just what they read and then assume. So that's like
Speaker 1: what you're saying, like they just read the headlines. Well,
Speaker 1: and there's probably that comments supporting you, but again the
Speaker 1: negative ones just sounds so much louder. Yeah, and and
Speaker 1: and because you know, I tweeted someone else and I
Speaker 1: was just like, someone said something about Mike and me
Speaker 1: in it, and I said, why don't you listen to
Speaker 1: the podcast before placing you know, judgment and spewing hate.
Speaker 1: And then they're like, well, you just retweeted that, so
Speaker 1: now all your followers are being a bully back and
Speaker 1: I'm just like, well, sorry, but yeah, So I think
Speaker 1: it's you know, at the end of the day, people
Speaker 1: will if they want to invest in I know, the
Speaker 1: people that know our hearts and our story and they
Speaker 1: want to be there, and we appreciate that. So it's
Speaker 1: it's spreading that that we want to continue. Well, I'm
Speaker 1: sorry that you're feeling that you regret going public with this. UM.
Speaker 1: I do think it is very relatable to a lot
Speaker 1: of people. I think a lot of people have hidden
Speaker 1: something from their spouse that they thought was completely meaningless,
Speaker 1: no big deal, and they end up regretting it later.
Speaker 1: And I think everybody's found something suspicious somewhere and and reacted.
Speaker 1: So I think that that's really relatable. I'm sorry that
Speaker 1: you regret that, UM or having second thoughts, so whateverbody
Speaker 1: you think it's helping a lot of people because a
Speaker 1: lot of people can relate to this. Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: think Mark, and I think Mark said this, but he
Speaker 1: even related like when things are so great, you don't
Speaker 1: want to have to then put a stop to how
Speaker 1: great things are by bringing in bad news. I have
Speaker 1: bad news for my wife. I might sit on it
Speaker 1: for a day or two until I find the right moment,
Speaker 1: you know, because there's a there's a time. Totally get that.
Speaker 1: I totally get that. I think again, we're not upset
Speaker 1: we shared the story. It's we're upset that we shared
Speaker 1: in that time. Sure like live it was like what happening?
Speaker 1: Like we wish we would have shared it. Gena said
Speaker 1: at the beginning, it's like, it's better when we share
Speaker 1: about scars, not open wounds. And what do you think
Speaker 1: could help moving forward? You know, is it more therapy?
Speaker 1: Is it? You know? I know, Janna, you were looking
Speaker 1: at different different things. The m d R I think
Speaker 1: looks really interesting. I was just reading about it, and
Speaker 1: I know people that have done it that have had
Speaker 1: great success with it. We've both done um E m
Speaker 1: d R at times, and we're both gonna do a
Speaker 1: more intensive, more intensive treatment around the m DR, but
Speaker 1: both for our own traumas around things around this scenario
Speaker 1: UM just because it deals with two traumas that both
Speaker 1: of us have, where mine is trusting the truth and
Speaker 1: Jane's is like the discovery and all of that. So
Speaker 1: it's that's why this has kind of been so volatile,
Speaker 1: is because it's too colliding traumas for both of us
Speaker 1: m you know, so that's something we just got to
Speaker 1: dive into and do the work around. And and I
Speaker 1: was so remember the other day, I was like, I
Speaker 1: was like crying empathetically. I was like, I get that.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm sorry that, like mine is the
Speaker 1: reverse of it, because I'm like, that must be so
Speaker 1: hard and be so scary to come to me and
Speaker 1: tell me the truth. Like I have so much empathy
Speaker 1: for you that like, that's that is part of your trauma.
Speaker 1: I just can't ignore my trauma. That's unfortunately the reverse
Speaker 1: side of it, right, And that's that's been That's why
Speaker 1: we've a big reason why we've been slow to really
Speaker 1: reconnect and get on the same page is because as
Speaker 1: soon like we'll both be we've both been empathetic with
Speaker 1: each other and we both understand. But then it's like
Speaker 1: then we think about our trauma for a second, and
Speaker 1: that's still it just they just collide for both of us. Internally,
Speaker 1: it's just it's hard. It is really really hard, And
Speaker 1: I think, what's scary is it? Like for me? When
Speaker 1: I told him, I was like, I think, again, what's
Speaker 1: scary is the what happens the next time? For me?
Speaker 1: Because I just know I can't and again, no matter
Speaker 1: what it is. And I think that's hard because it's
Speaker 1: that's but that's my truth with it. You know, one
Speaker 1: more question. We can move on from this and I
Speaker 1: know you're dying to have there been normal moments over
Speaker 1: the past week, or is this tension just always there
Speaker 1: and always palpable. I mean, I'm not gonna lie. It's
Speaker 1: just been really hard. It's just been it's just been tough. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got a new car, and that was a moment
Speaker 1: of happiness. We saw that the little things do help.
Speaker 1: I didn't buy a sweater, I got a new car.
Speaker 1: It was it was it was a bigger problem, deservingly,
Speaker 1: so I know, I was like, I want a new car.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I had a therapist that said, sometimes
Speaker 1: you just have to sit in it and sit in
Speaker 1: the grief and the pain, because a lot of us
Speaker 1: to wanna why don't I feel better? Why isn't this
Speaker 1: fix feel better? Fix? You know, when it's like you
Speaker 1: just have to sit in it, Well, that's just it too, right.
Speaker 1: That's coming from two people who have done a lot
Speaker 1: of therapy over the years and are both people who
Speaker 1: have had crutches in the past, mind being a full
Speaker 1: blown addiction of running away from how you feel and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. We've both had those things. Everyone kind
Speaker 1: of has something. But the fact that we're just sitting
Speaker 1: in it, Uh, you know, I think that's not necessarily
Speaker 1: a bad thing, kind of to your point, aiming like
Speaker 1: sometimes you just gotta sit in it. Yeah, but I'm
Speaker 1: ready to like not sit anymore because they're coming here.
Speaker 1: The other day, I was like, I'm about to have
Speaker 1: a nick nervous breakdown from anxiety, and I don't want
Speaker 1: to feel this like I'm but I guess I'm just
Speaker 1: like fearful of the next time, which anyone in your
Speaker 1: position would would understandably think that what do I hear
Speaker 1: on that? And there's the thing, Unfortunately, there's nothing someone
Speaker 1: in my position can do or say in this moment
Speaker 1: to make it instantly feel better. It's just showing you different,
Speaker 1: showing you change, being consistent. You could buy me flowers, maybe, Mark,
Speaker 1: I know you, little things go a really long way.
Speaker 1: I don't think that anything like you could show me
Speaker 1: you love me a little bit more by like writing
Speaker 1: me a note little flowers. I don't know. I'm just
Speaker 1: like you're not acts of service. No, you cleaning the
Speaker 1: house does not do anything I tried to I tried
Speaker 1: to show you today this morning things but by taking
Speaker 1: the kids physically out of the house at seven thirty
Speaker 1: in the morning so you could sleep. I mean, I
Speaker 1: appreciated it, but that's not how I received love. That's
Speaker 1: how I received it is that's not how I received love. Well,
Speaker 1: we are gonna not to cross promote, which means we're
Speaker 1: going to cross promote. Um, we are going to die.
Speaker 1: Since we canceled last week's episode due to everything because
Speaker 1: we are too fresh in things. We canceled our last
Speaker 1: thursday's Telly you are Telly in Perfect Harmony series because
Speaker 1: I was about to have a panic attack. So this Thursday,
Speaker 1: we're gonna do uh live head on conversation about all
Speaker 1: of this, um, and we're not like about it. We're
Speaker 1: gonna answer questions. So you guys have questions about your
Speaker 1: spouse or your it's gonna be around the topic of
Speaker 1: keeping secrets of all of that and had to hand
Speaker 1: to it. So we are going to address this. We're
Speaker 1: going to talk about things around this topic. UM. So
Speaker 1: if you guys want to come interact with us download
Speaker 1: the teliat t E l I E imperfect harmon us
Speaker 1: our show and we'll we'll have a sit down about it. Well,
Speaker 1: sorry about us Thursday. Let's take a break, Let's get
Speaker 1: out of our world and let's talk about somebody else's world.
Speaker 1: So mark different emails or anything for us I do.
Speaker 1: I hope this doesn't make things worse. The subject line
Speaker 1: is he won't stop lying. Ah, this is from Jessica. No,
Speaker 1: it says this is totally different. This is a totally
Speaker 1: different situation. I just thought out. My boyfriend of three
Speaker 1: and a half years, while we were going through a
Speaker 1: rough patch, he unblocked his AX and started texting and
Speaker 1: face timing. He says he was lonely and needed someone
Speaker 1: to talk too. I found out through her messaging me
Speaker 1: and telling me everything. When I first asked him about it,
Speaker 1: he denied everything and said, just block her. You know,
Speaker 1: he was doing the gaslight and thing, Oh she's crazy,
Speaker 1: just block her. But then she sent me the FaceTime
Speaker 1: pictures and the screenshots and the text conversations, and that's
Speaker 1: when he admitted finally to yeah, he was facetiming and texting.
Speaker 1: Well duh. She also told me that he went over
Speaker 1: to her house on the fourth of July. We were
Speaker 1: together on the fourth of July. Things were fine. They
Speaker 1: both say nothing physical happened, But I don't believe either
Speaker 1: of them. I think there's more that they're not telling me.
Speaker 1: Do I keep pushing them for proof of the truth.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to ever trust him again because
Speaker 1: he just keeps lying about everything. I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: going to be a total hypocrite but leave. But it's
Speaker 1: not really hypocritical, it's really not I mean kind of
Speaker 1: he won't stop lying, you know what I mean? Yes,
Speaker 1: did he call her during a rough patch? Did you
Speaker 1: say that was the first part, is that he went
Speaker 1: to her house during a rough patch. But then she
Speaker 1: found out that he was a place in the fourth
Speaker 1: of July and things were fine. Look, you three and
Speaker 1: a half. You need proof for something what you know?
Speaker 1: That's a thing. You don't need proof for what you
Speaker 1: already know and you know. So why do you want
Speaker 1: to continue to hurt yourself with that? Michael m Um, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know me, I do that thing that's like good
Speaker 1: bad of the relationship is good and is bad. That's
Speaker 1: not that bad. But this it sounds like she's overwhelmed
Speaker 1: trying to find proof of him cheating, which is being
Speaker 1: with this other woman cheating or not. And that's why, Well,
Speaker 1: I'm interested in why the X would send her. So
Speaker 1: the ex girlfriend was sending her all the messages and
Speaker 1: screenshots and stuff, but then she said that they weren't
Speaker 1: being physical. I thought to Ward two, why would the
Speaker 1: ex send all that stuff? But then that's what she's
Speaker 1: going to withhold, So that makes me want to honestly
Speaker 1: think that they aren't being physical. Regardless, the whole situation
Speaker 1: is inappropriate and wrong. Right, he's still sneaking around with
Speaker 1: her behind his girlfriend's back, right, But it's like her friend,
Speaker 1: that's weird to me. But because she jealous? Why what
Speaker 1: do you mean? I find it? And that the X
Speaker 1: called the current girlfriend, It's like, what's that about me?
Speaker 1: And something I would never do? Yeah, she doesn't want
Speaker 1: to cheat with this guy, but she wants him single.
Speaker 1: Yeah same here here, here, right, So it's like why,
Speaker 1: I mean, why all over the place. It's not cool
Speaker 1: and Jessica knows this. I edited out a few more
Speaker 1: examples of him not being honest with her just to
Speaker 1: make it a shorter email for air. I mean it's
Speaker 1: time to go. Yeah, yeah, that's I mean. Dad Mark says,
Speaker 1: say goodbye, and daughter Janna agrees. We're all laughing, just
Speaker 1: faking it till we make it. I also like that
Speaker 1: we have a guest coming in, but we have to
Speaker 1: just act like we're fine. We are love. It is
Speaker 1: going to be great. I'm so excited for Bow. He
Speaker 1: seems I like. I mean, he's like a motivational Speaker's
Speaker 1: motivate us to be better. He's all about plan a
Speaker 1: no foremost football player. We're gonna have a good, good
Speaker 1: time with him. Yeah, it's gonna be fine. I'm excited. Fine,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be motivating. We're gonna leave here feeling great,
Speaker 1: energized and no plan b's and no plans, just you
Speaker 1: and me baby. And people Choice Award because if you
Speaker 1: listen last week, you know they deserve it. I really,
Speaker 1: I gave tears, gave heart break. If that doesn't give
Speaker 1: us something, they're paying for your listening pleasure. Seems like
Speaker 1: we deserve a People's Choice Award. Yeah, So if you
Speaker 1: guys don't mind going on giving us a little some
Speaker 1: sympathy votes, this is the last week to vote. Give
Speaker 1: us some good out of this. It ends Friday. It's
Speaker 1: pc A dot eonline dot com. Maybe Tony can give
Speaker 1: us some love wish well thinking from your own viewers.
Speaker 1: All right, bows coming in, let's get him alright. So
Speaker 1: in case y'all didn't know it's the hundredth year of
Speaker 1: the NFL. That you didn't know that, it's like everywhere
Speaker 1: every Sunday, the hundredth anniversary. It's on the field, it's
Speaker 1: on the uniform. Everybody cares. It's America's game. Who cares? Anyways?
Speaker 1: More than eight hundred NFL players are game ready with
Speaker 1: sleep number bad for proven quality sleep. And I've been
Speaker 1: sleeping on the sleep number all through my planning days
Speaker 1: as well, so they are amazing. Guys actually do use
Speaker 1: these sleep number beds allow you to adjust on each
Speaker 1: side to your ideal firmness, comfort and support. So I
Speaker 1: like mine a little softer. Mike likes his a little
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Speaker 1: since is your movements and automatically just to keep you
Speaker 1: sleeping comfortably through the night. With Sleep by Q technology
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Speaker 1: Number is the official sleep and wellness partner of the NFL.
Speaker 1: You'll only find Sleep Number at one of their six
Speaker 1: hundred sleep Numbers stores nationwide. Find one near you at
Speaker 1: sleep number dot com. Slash Janna, all right, I'm super
Speaker 1: excited for our guests today. You know, we have a
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of different kind of guests on
Speaker 1: the show. Very seldom do we get an exper athlete
Speaker 1: that I can sit here and wrap with. So I'll
Speaker 1: let Joanna, Honey, I'll let you chime in every now
Speaker 1: and then, wag wasn't good enough for you? Was looking for? Okay,
Speaker 1: but we'll get into we'll dive into everything right now.
Speaker 1: But please introduce Mr bow Easton here on the show today.
Speaker 1: You're like, whooo alright, bro, So give our listeners a
Speaker 1: little bit of your backstory. You elevator pitch. Elevator pitch
Speaker 1: played in the NFL. So, my brother, how many years
Speaker 1: did you play again? Five? Oh? Same asn't you? Mike? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was looking at your guys stuff earlier today, which
Speaker 1: teams did you play for Sorry. I got drafted by
Speaker 1: the Houston Oilers in four and then played with them
Speaker 1: for four years and then got traded to San Francisco.
Speaker 1: In Oh, San Francisco, who's the Radcrest? Okay, they were
Speaker 1: actually why we don't do podcast? The Raiders were actually
Speaker 1: l a at that time. Yeah, that was also one
Speaker 1: so give me a break here. Yeah, that's right. You're
Speaker 1: born in eighty three. Just saw that. That's so good
Speaker 1: and uh and so when I got done, um, like
Speaker 1: we all do so soon, you know, Um, I wrote
Speaker 1: a one man play and it went to Broadway and
Speaker 1: it became this hit and it got bought as a
Speaker 1: movie and it ran for a fifteen years. Run to
Speaker 1: the Litter. It's a one man show. It's actually like
Speaker 1: a canaanable tight story between my brother and I actually,
Speaker 1: and it's kind of semi autobiographical about two guys, two brothers,
Speaker 1: who grew up best friends and then eventually they are
Speaker 1: pitted against one another and have to destroy each other
Speaker 1: to make their dreams come true. But they happen to
Speaker 1: be best friends, so it's uh it. It got a
Speaker 1: lot of attention in New York and it was it
Speaker 1: was great and then uh, while I was there in
Speaker 1: New York, business people kept coming to the show and
Speaker 1: they knock on the you know, like titans of industry
Speaker 1: knock on the stage door, which never happens, you know,
Speaker 1: and on Broadway and they're like, hey, can you bring
Speaker 1: this show to my to our company? And Donna and
Speaker 1: I for years were like, no, what are you talking about.
Speaker 1: This is a theater piece. We don't bring this to companies.
Speaker 1: And they go, no, no, you got to bring it.
Speaker 1: And five six years we said no. And one time
Speaker 1: one guy came in and goes, hey, it's the hundredth
Speaker 1: year of my company. I'll fly your family. We had
Speaker 1: two little ones at that time. I'll fly your family
Speaker 1: to Hawaii and you'll you'll do this play and and
Speaker 1: then he said what they paid, and we go, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe we do do that. That sounds fine, And so
Speaker 1: we did it, and we did it like in plain
Speaker 1: clothes instead of like the outfit that I normally wear
Speaker 1: on Broadway. So did that and then that part just
Speaker 1: really blew up, like the speaking area really blew up
Speaker 1: as far as companies go and all so, and then
Speaker 1: that just led to the book, which your book is
Speaker 1: called There's no Plan B for your A game. And
Speaker 1: what's what's the best message, um that you've given that book?
Speaker 1: Is that about that? Like, is it not having a
Speaker 1: Plan B? Yeah? I mean that. You know. The reason
Speaker 1: the title is is what it is, having no Plan
Speaker 1: B was because my mom was like that, you know,
Speaker 1: and uh, I just remember I'm the youngest of six kids, right,
Speaker 1: So I have four older sisters and one older brother.
Speaker 1: And I had this dream when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: and I wrote it on this piece of paper that
Speaker 1: I wanted to be the best safety in the world, right,
Speaker 1: not even really knowing what a safety did. I only
Speaker 1: knew they stopped people, they tackled people. That's all I knew.
Speaker 1: So I wrote that up. I followed it. But on
Speaker 1: the way to following it, you know, you're getting rejected
Speaker 1: left and right. Like I wasn't even recruited to go
Speaker 1: to college and play football. And so my mom's friends
Speaker 1: would come over to the house and they would I
Speaker 1: remember them sitting, you know, with my mom, having a
Speaker 1: glass of wine and they'd say, you know, um Bo
Speaker 1: and Tony that's my brother's name. They have these big dreams,
Speaker 1: you know, but we don't know any pro athletes and
Speaker 1: there's not any from our area, so maybe they should
Speaker 1: have a plan B. And my mom would take these
Speaker 1: ladies and throw them out of our house and slam
Speaker 1: the door and never to be seen again. And right then,
Speaker 1: and I was young, and I go, man, this is serious, right,
Speaker 1: so she knows. I just I didn't even know what
Speaker 1: plan be meant at that time, but I said, if
Speaker 1: my mom's so serious about this and she throws her
Speaker 1: best friends out of the house, then this must mean something, right.
Speaker 1: And that's where the title came from. It's just we
Speaker 1: just didn't have any options. And I think, you know,
Speaker 1: these days, a lot of us go, well, man, I've
Speaker 1: got a lot of options. I want my kids to
Speaker 1: have a lot of options. And I always say, I
Speaker 1: don't know. Well, this is the fight that Michael and
Speaker 1: I get in a lot because so I didn't go
Speaker 1: to college because I didn't want to plan B for
Speaker 1: what I wanted to do. So I was just like,
Speaker 1: when I graduate high school, I'm moving to l A.
Speaker 1: I'm going to be an actress, and I don't want
Speaker 1: to plan B because if I have a plan B,
Speaker 1: then I'm gonna end up being the accountant that I
Speaker 1: go to school to be or you know, get my
Speaker 1: degree in And you know, my parents, my dad did
Speaker 1: not love that. All My mom was like, go go
Speaker 1: go live your dreams and because everything she wanted to do.
Speaker 1: And so, you know, with our kids now, I'm like,
Speaker 1: if Jolie comes to me and says, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't want to get a degree because I want to
Speaker 1: go do this, and I'm I can't tell her you
Speaker 1: can't do that because you need a plan B. If
Speaker 1: she's going to go move to l A and be
Speaker 1: an actress or wherever she wants to go, or I can't.
Speaker 1: How could I tell her, no, you have to get
Speaker 1: a degree when I didn't and I'm doing amazing, you know,
Speaker 1: And she's like, well, what if it doesn't work out.
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, that's not the mindset that you should have. Well,
Speaker 1: it always works out, that's the thing. If you have
Speaker 1: a Plan B, then Plan B is working out for sure.
Speaker 1: And it's just how human beings are made. You know,
Speaker 1: we're going to go to the road that's easier. So
Speaker 1: if you have a Plan B, which is always easier,
Speaker 1: I'll fallback plant plan it gets hard, they're gonna start
Speaker 1: turning towards and I love just seeing the title I've
Speaker 1: loved so much because you know in the world that
Speaker 1: we came from. When when in professional athletics, so many
Speaker 1: people I feel like just only talk about Plan B.
Speaker 1: I remember when I first I signed as an undrafted
Speaker 1: free agent out of college with Jacksonville, and I saw
Speaker 1: my contract. Before I even step foot on the field,
Speaker 1: I had relatives and families saying, so, what are you
Speaker 1: gonna do after you're done playing? I'm like, what do
Speaker 1: you mean? I was like, this, that doesn't that has
Speaker 1: no relevance. Right now, it is like, this is what
Speaker 1: I'm doing. I have to put everything into the into
Speaker 1: this and for the exact reason that you're saying, otherwise
Speaker 1: it won't happen this and so. But it's hard now.
Speaker 1: It's difficult having two young kids like we have and
Speaker 1: now thinking like my parents, because my parents are always
Speaker 1: they're very conservative. That's like, you know, when you findance
Speaker 1: the house, you do thirty year fixed mortgage. You we've
Speaker 1: had the same career for thirty years. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: that's what they do. And they always preach education, which
Speaker 1: I understand now as a parent because I'm like with
Speaker 1: our kids, I don't want them. I want them to
Speaker 1: be somewhat educated in their choice. I don't want them
Speaker 1: just to have a dream. One day they wake up
Speaker 1: and say they want to do something, they take off
Speaker 1: and go do it. Have some thought, have a purpose
Speaker 1: behind it, have the purpose behind it. That's one thing.
Speaker 1: But it's difficult because I already anticipate that struggle when
Speaker 1: the kids come of age. It's like, we're both able
Speaker 1: to be that, you know, part of that one percent
Speaker 1: in our respected careers who didn't have Plan b's, But
Speaker 1: now as parents, how do you So have you guys
Speaker 1: approached that with your kids? Yeah? That well, a lot
Speaker 1: of the book you'll see is that has the kids
Speaker 1: all in it, because the kids have really big dreams
Speaker 1: and they're completely unreasonable. What you they have to be right?
Speaker 1: You know, people always go, well, you should be reasonable
Speaker 1: about your dreams. I'm like, well, their dreams. Want to
Speaker 1: be reasonable about it. I mean, look, it's the same work.
Speaker 1: If you're gonna do a have a mediocre life or
Speaker 1: have a have be the best in the world, that's something.
Speaker 1: It's it's the same kind of work. You still gotta work. Um,
Speaker 1: why not have the big unreasonable one? Why not have
Speaker 1: the one that you dream about, and that's where people
Speaker 1: do you know, and people are just trying to protect
Speaker 1: you or protect me, or protect you from yourself. You know,
Speaker 1: they're going, yeah, I don't know about moving to l
Speaker 1: A and becoming an actress. I hear that. It's really hard. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that is hard. That's why I'm going. Digging ditches is
Speaker 1: hard to you know, when somebody's going to do that
Speaker 1: work right, And people are always trying to talk you
Speaker 1: out of your own dreams. So the kids are huge
Speaker 1: in the book. I have a twelve year old son.
Speaker 1: You'll love this, Michael Um. He's when he was six,
Speaker 1: he drew up his twenty year plan, right, so he's
Speaker 1: seen he's seen mine, my piece of papers fifty years
Speaker 1: old now and I still have it. So he saw
Speaker 1: it at six and he goes, Okay, I'm gonna draw
Speaker 1: mine up, and he drew up. He wants to be
Speaker 1: the first guy ever to play in the NBA and
Speaker 1: the NFL. So that's never happened. Yeah, so it's not
Speaker 1: it's never happened, So we might as well be saying, oh, Axel,
Speaker 1: his name is Axel, Axel, You're gonna be the first
Speaker 1: guy to walk on Mars, you know, because it's just
Speaker 1: never been done. And since he's been six and now
Speaker 1: he's twelve, he has been training and I mean serious,
Speaker 1: He is dead serious and it's his decision. Yes, he
Speaker 1: wants to do it, that's right, and the whole family
Speaker 1: just got behind it. And when strangers come over, they
Speaker 1: always want us offten the blow too, just like they
Speaker 1: were trying to do with you guys. They go axel so,
Speaker 1: so wait a second, axl um, which one do you
Speaker 1: like better? And he will he's smart kid. He doesn't answer.
Speaker 1: He goes, I like them both, and they're going so
Speaker 1: or you know, your your dad played NFL and your
Speaker 1: uncle was a quarterback in the NFL, so maybe NFL
Speaker 1: And he's like, now I'm doing both and he won't budge.
Speaker 1: Do you do you think he can? Really? Oh? Yeah, yeah, no, no,
Speaker 1: he's he's he's uh but what about when he's like
Speaker 1: in his twenties and he'll say like and you're like,
Speaker 1: all right, the kid's not like he's not cut for it.
Speaker 1: Then what well that he'll get his heartbroken and that'll
Speaker 1: be it, but he won't have a p But then
Speaker 1: so then what happens? No, no, because there's no plan B,
Speaker 1: but A turns in if you doesn't work on something else. Ye,
Speaker 1: well he reveals the right a right. It never it's
Speaker 1: not like a soft braiding on the curve. Yeah, it's uh,
Speaker 1: you know. And look, here's the thing. If you don't
Speaker 1: have any options, like you know, that's why if you
Speaker 1: look at elite athletes, the ones that we admire the most,
Speaker 1: the ones that really play, they didn't have an option.
Speaker 1: It's not like they were, you know, could do do
Speaker 1: anything else. It's not like they're they came from a
Speaker 1: wealthy family that can just fund them all the way through.
Speaker 1: You know that that's why pro athletes are come from
Speaker 1: poor backgrounds, you know, because there's not an option and
Speaker 1: you got to get your family out of what they're in.
Speaker 1: So we're just doing the same thing with that. So okay,
Speaker 1: let's do this. Let's figure it out. Hockey, right because
Speaker 1: hockey unless it's hockey, because all the gear and hockey
Speaker 1: is expensive. I mean, yeah, you're not. You don't have
Speaker 1: the inner city we got. She's marrying Mr Gretzky son
Speaker 1: over there, so yeah, so that my kids go to
Speaker 1: the same school. Yeah yeah, yeah, Oh that's so funny
Speaker 1: named after Wayne. Amazing school. Yeah, cool school, right, every
Speaker 1: time we drive by, I'm like, you went to high
Speaker 1: school here? Yeah, I know it's so cool. But yeah no,
Speaker 1: So yeah, hockey is expensive. Hockey is very expensive because
Speaker 1: I remember, like figure skating, it's like my skates with
Speaker 1: three thousand dollars back then, Like hello, yeah, that's so expensive. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So do you think today's society just with there's so
Speaker 1: many opportunities for for these young guys coming in into
Speaker 1: any professional athletics, is that a good thing? Is it
Speaker 1: too distracting? I mean I'm kind of torn in between
Speaker 1: because it's like you can help one thing, can help
Speaker 1: generate the other, but then where's their focus getting drawn
Speaker 1: to it? More of off the field stuff or on
Speaker 1: the field. So do you think it's been beneficial or
Speaker 1: more kind of harmful for those guys and they're in
Speaker 1: their playing career. I think it's harder today just because
Speaker 1: all the distractions. I mean you look at when I played.
Speaker 1: We didn't have cell phones, right, so there was no
Speaker 1: Instagram and you weren't you weren't building a brand. You
Speaker 1: were just trying to win a game, you know, for
Speaker 1: your city. Yeah, it was all sports, So the level
Speaker 1: of play was really high and very dangerous and violent. Right.
Speaker 1: And then you know, as you watch this developed, like
Speaker 1: I'm even watching it with my kids, but you'll start
Speaker 1: to see, oh, this athlete isn't really concerned about winning this, uh,
Speaker 1: the NBA Championship. They're more interested in building their brand
Speaker 1: or getting you know, Facebook or Instagram, whatever they're getting,
Speaker 1: whatever they're building, you know what I mean. It's a
Speaker 1: huge distraction because now and I've I've talked to the
Speaker 1: guys in the locker room and they said, first thing,
Speaker 1: the first thing we used to do when it came
Speaker 1: in the locker room with if you lost, everyone's like, man,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody's upset, people are crying, people are gonna
Speaker 1: lose their jobs. And if we won, everyone was drinking
Speaker 1: beer and were celebrating together. Right. But now, yep, everyone
Speaker 1: goes to their phone and their separate you know quarters,
Speaker 1: So it's all separate. So it doesn't have that team
Speaker 1: building thing that we had. You know. So I'm watching
Speaker 1: my son go through this now and I'm like, going, man, listen,
Speaker 1: And there's a piece in the book. It's a chapter
Speaker 1: in the book that's all about distractions. These days, which
Speaker 1: is another you know, it goes right back to the title.
Speaker 1: What you were talking about, Janet, is Look, if you're
Speaker 1: not playing a big enough game, this world's going to
Speaker 1: distract you. Because this world is really good at it.
Speaker 1: You know that the entertainment world is good. I mean,
Speaker 1: they're good at having you watch and listen to their stuff, right.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying, look, Act, so if you're gonna make
Speaker 1: this thing come true, you're you're going to have to
Speaker 1: be the guy. You're not a fan of other guys
Speaker 1: and other gals. You are the guy, right, So you
Speaker 1: have to take that on in your own life. So
Speaker 1: you have to play such a big game that like
Speaker 1: he doesn't play video games, right, but all his buddies
Speaker 1: they play video games all day. And I'm just going look,
Speaker 1: acts a watch, watch how many hours that is per
Speaker 1: day that they're distracted and you're focused on your dream. Now,
Speaker 1: those hours are going to add up after twenty years,
Speaker 1: and it won't be a fair fight in twenty years,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. That's what I want my
Speaker 1: kids to know. And like my daughter who's fifteen, Eloise,
Speaker 1: she wants to be the best pastry chef, right, So
Speaker 1: same thing with her. It's just it's just a different discipline.
Speaker 1: The principles are the same. Where you want to be
Speaker 1: the best tight end or the best safety, or you
Speaker 1: want to be the best pastry chef, it's the same thing,
Speaker 1: like no options. Can you put your eggs in different baskets?
Speaker 1: So still have the same dream but still be able
Speaker 1: to do different things. Is it spreading too thin? I
Speaker 1: think it is. I like to go one thing at
Speaker 1: a time and then that always reveals the next path.
Speaker 1: So you couldn't still stay on the one and like
Speaker 1: still do it, but you have, Like I bet you could,
Speaker 1: But I think you have to learn the principles of
Speaker 1: mastery first. You know, I love this saying. Um, if
Speaker 1: you master one thing, so you're a tight end. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so the position of tight end or voice singing? Right,
Speaker 1: you master your own voice, You master the plane of
Speaker 1: a position so specific to you, to you, Um, if
Speaker 1: you master one thing, you master all things. So when
Speaker 1: I went from being the best safety to wanting to
Speaker 1: be the best stage performer, I sat down with al
Speaker 1: Pacino because he was the was the best stage performer
Speaker 1: of our time, and I said, dude, I want what
Speaker 1: you've got, Tell me what to do. I know how
Speaker 1: to do it as at a position in football, but
Speaker 1: how do I do it here? Given I have no experience?
Speaker 1: And he laid out, like fifteen years right, what I
Speaker 1: had to do, And basically what he said was the
Speaker 1: same thing that you and I did, the same thing
Speaker 1: that you probably did jan and which was spend. He
Speaker 1: just basically said, you have to spend more time on
Speaker 1: a stage, your ass on a stage, more than any
Speaker 1: other human being in the next fifteen years. And if
Speaker 1: you do that and you play you, you say the
Speaker 1: classic words, you say the classic text, you'll end up
Speaker 1: at the top because no one will be able to
Speaker 1: compete with you. Now, that was years ago, that was
Speaker 1: so science. Now they've done all kinds of studies and
Speaker 1: all kinds of science to prove that that's exactly right.
Speaker 1: That's one the case, regardless of discipline, regardless of it's
Speaker 1: safety or best stage performer or playwright or or singer,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. It's all the same. Um, this one study.
Speaker 1: You guys will love this book. And how old your kids.
Speaker 1: We have a almost ten month old baby boy, at
Speaker 1: three and a half year a little girl. Oh great,
Speaker 1: you guys, they're so young. This is perfect. There's nothing
Speaker 1: more fun than raising little champions, you know, because but
Speaker 1: I'm scared though with the boy, just because I don't
Speaker 1: want him to feel like he can't be emotional or
Speaker 1: he has to be tough, so that he's my biggest
Speaker 1: challenge with him, I think, so trying to not make
Speaker 1: him be too hard on him because I feel sometimes
Speaker 1: feel like him following in is like father's foot sets
Speaker 1: are being too hard. I'm like, no, like, let's be little.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be I don't want to raise
Speaker 1: it softie. But at the same time, I feel like
Speaker 1: that balance is gonna be a tough one to walk
Speaker 1: for both of us. I know, just my sense of
Speaker 1: you guys, I don't worry about that at all, not
Speaker 1: at all the same with us. I mean, look, she's
Speaker 1: the one who's my wife, don She's the one who's tough,
Speaker 1: and and you know, there's a theory that if you
Speaker 1: go back through the Spartans and they call him Spartan moms,
Speaker 1: go back through all the wars that have ever been fought,
Speaker 1: and every elite, elite performer there's ever been it was
Speaker 1: because of the strength of the mom, not the dad.
Speaker 1: The dad at is basically the cheerleader, like go get them,
Speaker 1: and the mom can't buckle. And as soon as the
Speaker 1: mom buckles, now that country can't win a war. And
Speaker 1: this goes all the way back into the Spartan ages.
Speaker 1: And it's crazy that that that the Spartan moms were
Speaker 1: so tough, and so you gotta go and don't come
Speaker 1: back unless you're on that shield, you know. And so
Speaker 1: that's that's the strength of any army, any team, any athlete,
Speaker 1: any performer. It's the mom, always the mom, because they're
Speaker 1: just unbending. They don't like I get I don't know
Speaker 1: if you're like this, but when my kids get hurt,
Speaker 1: like I've had a lot of surgeries, right, but when
Speaker 1: my kids get hurt, I free. I don't like it.
Speaker 1: Like I'm like afraid they're gonna be like when they're
Speaker 1: bleeding and stuff. And Dawn's totally fine. My wife's like,
Speaker 1: totally fine. Just rub it, you know, rub it and
Speaker 1: get off, you know, put some dirt on it. You're good,
Speaker 1: get over here. And that our daughters three and a
Speaker 1: half going on thirteen, so right now we're probably both like, gad,
Speaker 1: you'll be all right. I'll be like new baby boy,
Speaker 1: and he's ten months almost ten months. You know, it's
Speaker 1: interesting what you're saying about kind of about the mindset.
Speaker 1: It's and I'll tell you what with all of the
Speaker 1: type of personalities that you know, we've all I'm sure
Speaker 1: been around, especially in our professions, I've never met someone
Speaker 1: in my life who can master multiple things better than
Speaker 1: my wife. In all honesty, I've never seen someone where
Speaker 1: as many hats as she does and does it with
Speaker 1: like unwavering commitment and performance on everything that she did.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating and frustrating for me to watch because I'm
Speaker 1: like you where it's like when I do something, I
Speaker 1: have to do just that because that's how all I've
Speaker 1: done my entire life is when I'm doing one thing,
Speaker 1: I put everything I have into this thing. When that's done,
Speaker 1: I can do the next thing. And which is frustrating
Speaker 1: to her because we work in a lot of different
Speaker 1: projects right now. You know, we have this, we have
Speaker 1: a show online, we have a docu series, we have
Speaker 1: another project that we're working on. All we all these
Speaker 1: different things that each day we might have to do
Speaker 1: a little bit of all of it. And it's she's
Speaker 1: been She's able to do it. Without even blinking, And
Speaker 1: I'm like, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on, I need
Speaker 1: a second here. I mean, you know, but it's just
Speaker 1: it's that is my mindset, and it's but I think
Speaker 1: it's important. Like I said, I think jan is just
Speaker 1: an anomaly. I think she's just a miracle worker somehow.
Speaker 1: But I feel like that is how I personally have
Speaker 1: to be. Otherwise everything I do will be mediocre. Ye, exactly.
Speaker 1: Our relationship dawns in mind is exactly like yours. If
Speaker 1: she can do it. I remember her watching her when
Speaker 1: the kids were little, which you're probably going through this now,
Speaker 1: where cooking breakfast, nursing a baby, running my career, you
Speaker 1: know what, and producing the play all at one time
Speaker 1: with a phone and and I'm my, I I gotta
Speaker 1: take the garbage out and that's the one thing I
Speaker 1: can do, you know. So it's true. I think that's true.
Speaker 1: Male female? Is we gott? How do you bring the
Speaker 1: A the plant, not bring the Plan B eight into
Speaker 1: your marriage? Um, the same same principles. Is you being
Speaker 1: the best singer in the world, Are you being the
Speaker 1: best tight end in the world? The exact same principles.
Speaker 1: You have to make a Declaration of that's what you're
Speaker 1: gonna do. You know, no different than the Declaration of Independence.
Speaker 1: It's just the same. You declare what you want and
Speaker 1: that always comes true. Here's the problem. People just don't
Speaker 1: do it. People think their marriage is just gonna work out.
Speaker 1: You know, that doesn't happen. You know, those don't. It's hard,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a it's a it's a commitment.
Speaker 1: It's no different than than your career. You know. It's like,
Speaker 1: this is what was what we're going to build together.
Speaker 1: That's it sounds like that's what you guys are doing too.
Speaker 1: What we've done is really like we're good at building
Speaker 1: stuff together, like and simple things like our home. You
Speaker 1: like building our home and then our building those our
Speaker 1: three kids and developing them, and then building our play
Speaker 1: and building the movie and then building a speaking career
Speaker 1: and build we build it and now the book. Things
Speaker 1: that because she's managing your everything. Yeah, because that's like yeah, same,
Speaker 1: you guys would still be uh yeah right, doing one thing,
Speaker 1: doing that one thing. But it's I mean, it's it's
Speaker 1: true though. I mean, that's that's what you're saying. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's you have to be the best, you know, the
Speaker 1: husband and the wife, and you guys are doing it
Speaker 1: together and noticing each other strengths and weaknesses too. And
Speaker 1: I was going to ask, how do you guys work together?
Speaker 1: Because because Jane and I are two different people, we
Speaker 1: have two different mindsets, we have two different working styles
Speaker 1: depending on the project. Have you all faced challenges with
Speaker 1: working together and on how do you fight through this? Not?
Speaker 1: We rarely argue about business stuff, you know. And she's
Speaker 1: she's always been on the production side, and I've always
Speaker 1: been on the stage side. Um, but now like the
Speaker 1: world's calling more for her to lead, to be out front,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, she's always the leader, but she's
Speaker 1: kind of backstage leader, you know what I mean. Um,
Speaker 1: But I think, um, we're really good together. Um. We
Speaker 1: don't really argue about stuff. She handles stuff that I
Speaker 1: don't want to do, and I handle stuff she doesn't
Speaker 1: want to do. So it's just like playing your position,
Speaker 1: you know. I'm you know, like you know you're gonna
Speaker 1: lose when the offensive linemen want to play quarterback, you know,
Speaker 1: because now no one's playing their position. No one's happy
Speaker 1: with their position. Same thing in marriage, when people want
Speaker 1: to play the other one's position and start to get
Speaker 1: all out of balance. Now you're all screwed up. Okay,
Speaker 1: remind me ask you on that. Then, this is just
Speaker 1: from our personal experience. When you say, you know, Donald,
Speaker 1: take care of things that you don't want to You'll
Speaker 1: take care of things she doesn't want to do. You
Speaker 1: guys put pressure on each other for the timeline of
Speaker 1: when those certain things are accomplished. Yeah, I mean we
Speaker 1: always there's always a you know, there's always a deadline,
Speaker 1: like you guys, right, Yeah, is that what you're doing? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Or is it like you know, saying what he's trying
Speaker 1: to call me out of, Like I like things to
Speaker 1: be done yesterday, and so when I asked him do something,
Speaker 1: it's like, it's shocking to me that takes him a
Speaker 1: week when I'm like, I would have done it two
Speaker 1: days ago. Does that sound familiar, sweetheart? Yea, my wife.
Speaker 1: My wife is nodding. Um, that's exactly. I think it's
Speaker 1: the male female, which is why it's gonna work. That's
Speaker 1: why it works. You know, if you're all the same,
Speaker 1: that does not work. That's why, right, it just doesn't.
Speaker 1: The reason you're attracted is the opposite, Like you know
Speaker 1: that's just how it goes. Like you somehow deep inside
Speaker 1: you just love that he's like can do one thing
Speaker 1: and do it well. I don't know if I love
Speaker 1: at all. Actually, it's like one of the least things
Speaker 1: I love. How boring would it be if like you
Speaker 1: never had to remind me of anything? Sarah? I was
Speaker 1: really quiet, this is we're good right now, and I
Speaker 1: just like, you know, no, but I I yeah, I
Speaker 1: love being doing I think it's good to be different
Speaker 1: to your point. Yeah, that part's good. Yeah, opposite to tract.
Speaker 1: That's how it goes, going back real quick. So when
Speaker 1: you retired and you got into doing stage and everything,
Speaker 1: did you have a background that How did you know
Speaker 1: when you got out because it seemed like it was
Speaker 1: a pretty quick turnaround to you going from football into
Speaker 1: this is what I want to do? Yeah, how did
Speaker 1: you know so quickly? It's like bomb doing this. This
Speaker 1: is what we're doing this girl, you know what. I
Speaker 1: was being wheeled off the field in Orange Bowl in Miami. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and uh it was my seventh knee surgery. And as
Speaker 1: I was being I was on a stretcher and I
Speaker 1: was being wheeled off, and um, I was twenty seven
Speaker 1: years old, and I just remember going, oh my god,
Speaker 1: you know what am I gonna do? And I remember
Speaker 1: like having arguments like with God, you know, like as
Speaker 1: I'm being wheeled off, going what the hell, man, I
Speaker 1: the one thing I do great is run and you
Speaker 1: keep taking these legs away like I was having that
Speaker 1: kind of and I thought to myself, I go, look,
Speaker 1: I've trained myself for twenty years to be the best
Speaker 1: at this one thing, but this one thing is not
Speaker 1: does not cross over well to the civilian world, which
Speaker 1: in those days, you can really hurt people as a safety,
Speaker 1: you can really take shots at guys. And so that
Speaker 1: was my job, right, So I figured, man, if I'm
Speaker 1: not going to have a career in anything, and I
Speaker 1: thought of in the very next moment, I thought of
Speaker 1: watching plays. And I've never been into play, but I
Speaker 1: had seen plays before, not necessarily acting, just plays, you know,
Speaker 1: being performed. And I was like, man, that is so
Speaker 1: cool how people can express themselves and it's not even them,
Speaker 1: they're playing a character. And I never studied it, it
Speaker 1: didn't really know much about it. But after I had
Speaker 1: that surgery, after I went through a year of rehab,
Speaker 1: I went I moved to New York, and I just
Speaker 1: got in every class I could get in. Just I
Speaker 1: followed the same principles. It took me to get to
Speaker 1: the NFL, same principles, and that's when I met al Pacino,
Speaker 1: started studying and eventually wrote the play, and then the
Speaker 1: play took off. Um, I just followed the same thing.
Speaker 1: It took years, took a fifteen years, you know, to
Speaker 1: write it and to have it. Uh Don produced it
Speaker 1: and and she's producing the movie. So uh of course,
Speaker 1: because she's a bad as That's right, That's right. So
Speaker 1: that's that transition was. It worked out pretty good. It
Speaker 1: just took a long time. And it came out of
Speaker 1: fear because I thought, Man, how am I going to
Speaker 1: express myself the same way I did on NFL field,
Speaker 1: because that that's legal, you know, it could hurt people,
Speaker 1: it's legal. And I was good at that. And now
Speaker 1: I got to enter the civilian world. What am I
Speaker 1: gonna do with myself? You know? How am I gonna
Speaker 1: avoid prison? And I said, so, I thought, I figured,
Speaker 1: if I can express myself on the stage, it'll be
Speaker 1: the same thing. It'll be the same exact thing, you know,
Speaker 1: a little bit different discipline. So did it. That's awesome. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's fun. But where can our listeners find you? Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: my website is Boston dot com. The book. There's no
Speaker 1: plan B for your A game that they can go
Speaker 1: to bow easton book dot com. Okay, and that just
Speaker 1: and that just hit the national best seller's list. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a bunch of best living yea. Yeah, it's very cool. Amazon.
Speaker 1: You can get it on Amazon to the I mean
Speaker 1: even got it on Amazon or wherever you buy your books,
Speaker 1: Barnes and Noble. Um, Yeah, it's everywhere. Perfect. There is
Speaker 1: no plan B for your A game. That's right. Words
Speaker 1: to live by. Seriously, it worked for work for me,
Speaker 1: work for you, work for this room. I love it.
Speaker 1: That's right. Thanks, thanks for having to Thanks for coming out.
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