WEBVTT - No Plan B 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:04.960 Wind Down with Jane Kramer and Michael Cosson and I 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:14.680 heard Radio and People's Choice Awards nominated podcast What our Team? Well, 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:24.040 hello everybody, we're just like silent, going what's happening? I 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:28.159 think the whole everybody is thinking that, wow, what a 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:33.640 nice what a wow? I think I think everybody. I 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:35.040 don't even know what to say. I'm about to take 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:38.720 a shot of a lemon, ginger and cayenne pepper. You're 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:43.080 gonna say tequila shot at tequila to start this show. 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:48.159 I've never done a shot at Tila Tequila. You want 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:52.120 to take these? I think we're just gonna let you 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:54.680 guys be uncomfortable for a few minutes and then we'll 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:59.840 see how it's going. Hello, So grass, there's no women? 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:05.039 Hy that was bad? Um? Alright, So, I mean obviously 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:10.720 the elephant in the room. UM, I will be very honest. 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:16.600 I've I'm just I have a lot of anxiety around it. 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:22.600 Had an anxiety attack this morning, I think. Um, I mean, 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:25.320 going into last week's episode, we we're not going to 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:30.040 share what was going on. UM. I was honestly shocked 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:33.280 that you shared, Mike because of how real it was. 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.679 But I understand why you did, because our whole thing 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:39.319 is that we want to help people. But I think 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:42.319 it was a massive lesson learned for Mike and I 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:45.960 and not be so real time because we weren't united 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:50.520 and we were still It's like, I think it's okay 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:52.320 to share scars, but I think when you have a 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:57.720 wound that's still open, I think that's I see now 0:01:57.760 --> 0:02:00.560 on the outside of it, like that was not a 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:02.920 good thing. I think we should have saved that for 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:07.520 another time when we were in a better place. And 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:09.600 I understand that it has helped a lot of people, 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:11.799 and I get that, and I'm so glad that it has, 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:17.200 but it also has hurt worse because of the public 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:21.720 conversation around it and the people and because of where 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:26.840 I'm still at with it. It's made my anxiety worse. 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:32.079 It's made me feel more confused, and so I think 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:35.200 it's just and it's just kind of like put more 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:40.640 salt in the wound. So I mean, looking back, like 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:44.400 I wish we would have waited to share some and 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:47.840 I think that's the kind of a lesson learned for us, 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:51.120 because you know, there's people out there thinking Mike actually cheated, 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:56.679 and it's like girl yeah, so it's like, so it's 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:59.200 just you know, or or the people are like he's 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:01.480 never going to stop eating on you, like you should leave, 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:05.120 like and it's just like they only see the headline 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:09.200 and not actually what happened. And then you know, I 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:11.480 have so many and I love my friends for texting me. 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:13.120 I love people that I haven't talked to in a 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:15.640 while reach out to me. But at the same time, 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:19.239 some of it's been oh yeah, my husband, he relapsed 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:21.440 again too, and I'm just like, and then I start 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:24.040 getting in that cycle of this is the world that 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:26.280 I'm in and this is it's going to keep happening, 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:29.040 and so then I start to just feed the wound, 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:33.000 and you know, to the point this morning where I 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:36.000 was just like, I I just need to take a 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:40.160 break from looking at messages, looking at being so because 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:43.080 I'm like, I just my anxiety and I hope, like 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:46.120 and Mike knows this too, I was like, I don't. 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:49.160 I honestly just don't even know where I'm at, Like, 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:53.440 I don't think he'll I don't know, because it's just 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.040 it's hard because he'll always say, well, I'm gonna it 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:58.680 won't happen again. It's like I've heard that so many times, 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.800 but I think maybe now he sees how bad that 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:06.040 wound is for me and the trauma of finding things, 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:09.360 whether he did something or not. I just like, I'm 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:11.440 to the point of like a literally a nervous breakdown 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:14.960 where I just can't physically handle it anymore. And that's 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:19.479 not the strength that I want to portray to my daughter, 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:23.839 to myself, to anyone else out there too. So hopefully, 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:29.520 I mean, we've had this conversation, but it's still you know, 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:34.159 It's just that was the risky part about opening that. 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:40.360 Do you agree? Mm hmm. I'm sorry you're going through that. 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:44.719 I mean, I appreciate it. It's just it's just hard 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:46.760 because I'm just like, and you know, I told Michael 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:49.599 the other day, I was just like, I don't believe 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:52.320 that there won't be another time, and that sucks to 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:55.880 like have to feel that because I've just how do 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:57.720 I believe that when I've heard so many times I'll 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:00.120 never do it again. I'll never do it again. So 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.440 it kind of puts me in this really awkward situation 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:05.800 and it makes me look weak and to have to 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:08.560 be like continuing to stick around whether he did something 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:11.360 or he didn't, and I believe that he didn't. I believe, 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:13.480 I know it wasn't a real person. I know all 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:17.000 those things, but it's still it doesn't matter. It's just 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:21.479 the the is it weak to stay? Couldn't it be considered. 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:25.719 I'm not saying it's weak to stay. I'm not saying 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.200 it's weak to leave. I'm just saying for me personally, 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:31.240 where I'm out and how many times I'm now like 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:36.520 it's weakening me by staying. You say you're you're not 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:38.560 convinced that what happened again? But what you mean by 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:40.160 that is you're not saying you're not convinced you what 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:43.080 cheat again? You're not convinced he won't keep something from 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:46.159 you again? Right? Yeah? And that's and that, unfortunately is 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:48.200 the issue. It's like he's like, I didn't. I was like, 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:49.960 I know, you didn't. I was like, but what is 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.760 just the trauma for me is not him acting out 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:55.919 the other women. Sure that would hurt, but the trauma 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.840 that I've had in this relationship is the finding out things. 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:01.240 And that's what I just truly I was like, I 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:04.440 don't even care how little it is. That is just 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:10.080 the feeling of that again. Is so traumatic because of 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.240 the past that it's just I and from this last time, 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:17.680 like the amount of anxiety and and the like, I 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:20.760 hope you see that I'm not physically able to handle 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:26.120 another episode like that because it's just two it's it's 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:28.520 it just goes back to all the trauma from from 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:31.560 the discovery and it's just it's it's overwhelming, which is 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:37.560 you know obviously why I got upset last week's podcast. Um, 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:42.960 but I think you see that now, yeah, And I 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.520 just I think my fear is you know where why 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:47.920 I'm kind of like depressed in a little like anxious 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:51.720 written is because I you know, I've been told that 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:56.560 won't happen again, and I I just fear I don't. 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:58.160 I don't I can't trust that. And I think that's 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:00.240 where my anxiety comes in, is because when I can't 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.919 us something, I get more anxious and I want to 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:05.400 be able to trust. And I understand too that people 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:07.880 make mistakes and people I'm like, I'm not asking him 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:11.360 to be perfect, but I need him to understand how 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.040 deep that wound is for me. When I discover something, 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:17.200 no matter if he did something or not, that is 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:23.440 just like it's painful and it I I just can't 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:29.160 like physically hold that anymore. So, I mean we've talked 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.200 a little bit about it, and it's just it's just 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:36.800 that weird kind of like we're not as close because 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:40.360 I think I'm just it's hard to lean in when 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:44.120 I'm scared of leaning in to someone that I don't 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:46.960 know if I can trust or not. Does that make sense? 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:50.800 So where do we go from here? I mean, you 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:53.200 work through this in therapy as a couple, right, and 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:55.040 that's and that's hopefully you'll be able to get to 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:59.679 that place again. Because what you're saying now doesn't selling 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:02.000 things are great now and it doesn't sound very hopeful. 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:11.200 But is their hope here? That's your question? Answer? No, 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:13.280 it shouldn't just be on me. It's the work that 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:18.520 you know we both have to do. It's not do 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:23.800 you know what I mean? Yeah, So I think. I 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:26.080 mean I just told him I kind of just where 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:28.880 I was at, and like, again, I'm not I need 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.760 to see because it's like you're saying, I'll never do 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.640 it again, or you'll never put you in that position again. 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:37.000 I can't believe. So I need to see something else 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:39.880 to show me something different. So is it a different 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.319 type of therapy. Is it a different type of communication, 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:45.280 Is it a different type of something where then I 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:49.000 can kind of have a little bit more safety around 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:53.560 feeling like I can trust you. Whether you delete, you know, 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.160 it's just again. And I know for people that don't understand, 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:58.160 you're like, who cares he deleted it? But it's like 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:02.520 just the again. The trauma and the PTSD from discovering 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:07.920 things a lot and frequently through the past couple of 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.960 years is just added up to be so traumatic each 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:16.120 time and wounding that it just doesn't feel safe. And 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:18.000 when I don't feel safe, that's not a good environment 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:19.720 for our kids. It's not a good environment for me. 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:22.480 It's not a good environment from Mike, And I just 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:25.680 want to somehow. What I think, what I'm trying to 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:30.040 find is what what will look different, what's going to 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:33.360 look different that it's not just him saying I won't 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:35.640 do it again, because I can't hang my hat on that, 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:41.719 and I am genuinely fearful that there will be the 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:48.000 next time and how and then knowing this, like I 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:49.920 think that scares me too, because I'm like, I don't 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.160 want our relationship to end. I am hopeful and I 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:54.959 want to be hopeful, but I'm also I think I'm 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:58.720 more scared than hopeful because I don't know what I 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:04.440 can I don't know. I don't know, but I guess 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:10.120 I'll let you speak on that. And I didn't know 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:14.920 we're gonna adopt so much into this. Well, I don't 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:21.480 think we really had a choice. Yeah, um, Mike, yeah, 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:24.120 you haven't said much. But you must be hopeful for 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:26.920 this situation, right, you must have? Oh yeah, I mean 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.000 I am for sure, all right, for sure. I mean 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:36.040 I told you this morning. I regret. Uh, I regret 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:38.960 that we shared last week. I do. It's done more 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:43.520 damage than it has good hands down sharing it has, yes, 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:49.120 when in the past it's it's brought us together, um, 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:55.600 but this hasn't. And unfortunately it's like I don't even know. 0:10:55.960 --> 0:11:00.720 I mean, that's part of the benefit of me not 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:05.000 being on social media is I don't see even a 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:07.200 small percentage of the stuff that Janna has to see 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:11.960 or deal with from comments or headlines or whatever. And 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:14.920 I don't actively look it up because I just don't care. 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:22.199 But knowing what that stuff is done to Janna, not 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:24.800 that she hangs her head on that stuff either, but 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:28.760 it doesn't help the situation. The fact that it's impossible 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:31.920 to ignore that stuff no matter what someone has, the 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.199 fact that people are I didn't even know this is 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:35.880 news to me that people are reaching out to Janna 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:40.560 is saying that say whatever, that I'm probably still cheating 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:43.040 or or I'll never stop or what. I'm like, are 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:49.040 you kidding me? But again, those people I don't like, 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.719 they're like, sex addiction isn't a real thing. And then 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:54.480 I'm like, okay, like they don't they don't know, you know, 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:57.920 they don't know. Well, Michael, that's not very nice to say. 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:00.280 I don't care. It's not nice to say they thing, 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:09.280 but abolition bullietably, I stay, I stay pretty political, and 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.200 I'm just saying, you don't bullietably, you know what I mean. 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:14.880 I think those people are misinformed, and I feel bad 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.120 that they're misinformed. I don't hang my hat on that way. 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:19.920 I have a hard time with this, like the people 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:22.000 that kind of if you're bringing it up, you're still 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:25.959 it still has a carries weight with you if we're 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:27.680 being on it. Like the stuff that carries weight for 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:31.840 me is the wives that are like with other addicts. 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:34.440 Those are the things that and again like this is 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:37.839 what's what I think what he's saying is we share 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:40.840 because we want to help. And I think, you know, 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.080 obviously with regret with this is we shared too soon 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.920 because we weren't united, like I said. But the part 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.520 that has hurt and been great At the same time, 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:52.560 I love that people have reached out. I love that 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:55.000 so much. But at the same time reading those things 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.040 and being like, yeah, my husband just you know, same thing, 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:01.600 and he lied and I'm just or one didn't lie, 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.120 and then it's that kind of back and forth ward. 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.360 It's just I love to help, but at the same time, 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:10.560 I'm still dealing with my stuff, in our stuff that 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:13.080 it's that it's hard because it's like I'm hearing of 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.160 another husband's relapse and I'm hearing of another husband's you 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:18.320 know this, and it's like, especially with the addiction piece, 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.640 it just makes it that much harder. So it's like 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:22.400 I'm trying to be strong for these other women that 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:24.199 are reaching out to me, but at the same time, 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:28.720 I'm like, I'm still in kind of shambles, so and 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:31.720 it's just kind of it feeds it a little bit. 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:35.160 As opposed to when we were stronger with our with 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:39.440 coming out on things, and we were able to be 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:42.520 more solid in it. And so I think because I'm 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:46.920 a little uncertain of our relationship or the the you know, 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:50.520 the if it will never happen again, which again I 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:55.560 doubt the that's that's safety with it. So that's where 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:57.960 that's where it starts to feed into my insecurity and 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:01.280 my anxiety. Is there anything that could make you feel 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:04.080 more secure? I'm trying to sort of think on it, 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:06.720 and I don't know the answer or is it even 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:10.880 working on you where you feel? Yeah, I mean I'm 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.319 starting um an E M. D R for just the 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:19.120 trauma around discovery because I think that's such a heavy 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.760 piece for me. But um, you know, with Mike too, 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.080 I think he's going to try other things that will help, 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:29.880 hopefully in situations and him knowing I think now the 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:34.840 depth of where my trauma goes with discovery, maybe that 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:39.960 will be helpful with him. Not um we're maybe not 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:44.640 just thinking of you know, thinking of himself. I guess 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.240 with it too, right, Like I was thinking, like what 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:49.480 if he journals and then you were able to read 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:51.400 that journal, you know what I mean? Where that way 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:53.400 he doesn't have to like Let's say he gets that 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:55.760 text and he writes it in a journal like I 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:58.400 got this text, This is so stressful for me, I 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:00.840 delete it whatever, and then you read that, so that 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:04.880 way the confrontation might be easier on him. I don't know. 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:08.760 I'm trying to think of things that would because it 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:13.480 I understood Mike's position to where he deleted it because 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:15.120 he wanted it to be gone and he didn't want 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:20.920 to hurt you. Yeah, no, I get that. I I do. 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:25.200 I understand that too. It's unfortunate that both can be 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:30.239 you can both, we can both understand both those things. Unfortunately, 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:32.800 there's just that the boundary of which you know things 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:36.520 shouldn't be deleted, and then the repercussions of how I've said, 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.280 like finding things is more traumatic for me than the 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.600 actual act. Well, and even if your brain understands something, 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:46.560 your heart can still be broken by the same thing. Yeah, 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.680 for sure, anything, Mike, Because I feel a little left 0:15:50.680 --> 0:16:00.080 out in the in the ocean today. Um M know. 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:03.440 I just again, I was sure how much we're gonna 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:10.240 talk about this, and I think it's just right now. 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:14.040 I Mean, all I can do is be as empathetic 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:17.280 as I can with you and understanding and do whatever 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:21.600 I need to do to continue to create safety around things. 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:28.360 And I'm just I'm having a hard time. And I 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.200 you know, I said this the other day when Jane 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:35.840 and I did a quick interview with Billy Bush on Extra, 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:37.680 and I was just like, I'm tired of looking like 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:45.440 the bad guy. And it's you know, and I mean, 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:48.080 I do it to myself with these situations. So I 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:50.440 get that, but it's the fact that things are getting 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:56.040 blown to the degree that they are. It's just it's 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:58.520 just like every man has his breaking point. Again, I stay, 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:03.360 I stayed very very above board and political when it 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:09.199 comes to my reaction to to certain things and in 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:17.560 handling and not acknowledging uh trolls or headlines or just 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:21.120 though if it makes you feel any better, the comments 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:25.040 are Jane is a weak piece of she's so stupid, 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:28.359 she's she's an idiot. First, Like they're being mean to me. 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:35.680 I understand, you're not wanted to feel like a bad person, 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.080 like and I get that, but like, just know that, 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:40.960 Like it's not easy on my side either. I'm not 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:46.600 I'm not saying it is. Well, we live in a 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:49.400 t l DR world right now. Too long, didn't read, 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:51.600 and people just glanced at the headline and draw all 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:53.200 the conclusions they need to draw. And I peo don't 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:54.720 even read the headline anymore. They just kind of get 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:56.840 some key words and just make their whole opinion off 0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:02.480 of it. Sex. And there was only on that said that, 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:06.080 and it was actually a sports one. What happens is 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:08.679 there was one, but it's all the other ones were right, 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:11.960 it's so loud. Yeah, all the other ones just said, 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:16.560 you know, topless. You know, Janet Cramer finds a topless 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:18.880 photo on Mike's phone. So that's just what they That's 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:22.000 just what they read and then assume. So that's like 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:24.439 what you're saying, like they just read the headlines. Well, 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:28.160 and there's probably that comments supporting you, but again the 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:33.360 negative ones just sounds so much louder. Yeah, and and 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:36.040 and because you know, I tweeted someone else and I 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.880 was just like, someone said something about Mike and me 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:41.080 in it, and I said, why don't you listen to 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:45.720 the podcast before placing you know, judgment and spewing hate. 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:49.159 And then they're like, well, you just retweeted that, so 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:51.399 now all your followers are being a bully back and 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:58.200 I'm just like, well, sorry, but yeah, So I think 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:00.480 it's you know, at the end of the day, people 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:04.760 will if they want to invest in I know, the 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.720 people that know our hearts and our story and they 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:10.720 want to be there, and we appreciate that. So it's 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:15.120 it's spreading that that we want to continue. Well, I'm 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:18.640 sorry that you're feeling that you regret going public with this. UM. 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:20.760 I do think it is very relatable to a lot 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.359 of people. I think a lot of people have hidden 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.800 something from their spouse that they thought was completely meaningless, 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:28.640 no big deal, and they end up regretting it later. 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:34.440 And I think everybody's found something suspicious somewhere and and reacted. 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:36.840 So I think that that's really relatable. I'm sorry that 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:39.640 you regret that, UM or having second thoughts, so whateverbody 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:40.960 you think it's helping a lot of people because a 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:42.240 lot of people can relate to this. Yeah, And I 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:43.919 think Mark, and I think Mark said this, but he 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.960 even related like when things are so great, you don't 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:49.760 want to have to then put a stop to how 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:52.080 great things are by bringing in bad news. I have 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:53.480 bad news for my wife. I might sit on it 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:55.399 for a day or two until I find the right moment, 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:58.600 you know, because there's a there's a time. Totally get that. 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.040 I totally get that. I think again, we're not upset 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:04.000 we shared the story. It's we're upset that we shared 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:08.040 in that time. Sure like live it was like what happening? 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:12.360 Like we wish we would have shared it. Gena said 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:14.800 at the beginning, it's like, it's better when we share 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:18.880 about scars, not open wounds. And what do you think 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:22.440 could help moving forward? You know, is it more therapy? 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:25.000 Is it? You know? I know, Janna, you were looking 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:27.520 at different different things. The m d R I think 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:29.240 looks really interesting. I was just reading about it, and 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:30.680 I know people that have done it that have had 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:34.920 great success with it. We've both done um E m 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:37.280 d R at times, and we're both gonna do a 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:40.720 more intensive, more intensive treatment around the m DR, but 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:44.960 both for our own traumas around things around this scenario 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:52.040 UM just because it deals with two traumas that both 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:55.679 of us have, where mine is trusting the truth and 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:59.200 Jane's is like the discovery and all of that. So 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:02.359 it's that's why this has kind of been so volatile, 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:08.560 is because it's too colliding traumas for both of us 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:12.040 m you know, so that's something we just got to 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:14.400 dive into and do the work around. And and I 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:16.240 was so remember the other day, I was like, I 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:18.639 was like crying empathetically. I was like, I get that. 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:21.919 I was like, I'm sorry that, like mine is the 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:24.520 reverse of it, because I'm like, that must be so 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:27.199 hard and be so scary to come to me and 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:29.320 tell me the truth. Like I have so much empathy 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:32.000 for you that like, that's that is part of your trauma. 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:36.159 I just can't ignore my trauma. That's unfortunately the reverse 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:39.520 side of it, right, And that's that's been That's why 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:44.200 we've a big reason why we've been slow to really 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:48.320 reconnect and get on the same page is because as 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:50.639 soon like we'll both be we've both been empathetic with 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:54.520 each other and we both understand. But then it's like 0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:57.320 then we think about our trauma for a second, and 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:01.600 that's still it just they just collide for both of us. Internally, 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:05.960 it's just it's hard. It is really really hard, And 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:08.040 I think, what's scary is it? Like for me? When 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:10.320 I told him, I was like, I think, again, what's 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:15.560 scary is the what happens the next time? For me? 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:18.320 Because I just know I can't and again, no matter 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:22.760 what it is. And I think that's hard because it's 0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:29.239 that's but that's my truth with it. You know, one 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:30.919 more question. We can move on from this and I 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:33.160 know you're dying to have there been normal moments over 0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:35.760 the past week, or is this tension just always there 0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:40.160 and always palpable. I mean, I'm not gonna lie. It's 0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:50.520 just been really hard. It's just been it's just been tough. Yeah, 0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:52.320 I got a new car, and that was a moment 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:59.040 of happiness. We saw that the little things do help. 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:02.880 I didn't buy a sweater, I got a new car. 0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:08.359 It was it was it was a bigger problem, deservingly, 0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:10.359 so I know, I was like, I want a new car. 0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:12.639 I don't know. I had a therapist that said, sometimes 0:23:12.680 --> 0:23:15.080 you just have to sit in it and sit in 0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:17.280 the grief and the pain, because a lot of us 0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:19.639 to wanna why don't I feel better? Why isn't this 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:22.000 fix feel better? Fix? You know, when it's like you 0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:25.679 just have to sit in it, Well, that's just it too, right. 0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:28.439 That's coming from two people who have done a lot 0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:32.880 of therapy over the years and are both people who 0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:37.040 have had crutches in the past, mind being a full 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:40.359 blown addiction of running away from how you feel and 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:43.360 stuff like that. We've both had those things. Everyone kind 0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:47.680