Speaker 1: Why would somebody like centransilation because it probably doesn't make
Speaker 1: sense in a lot of situations. Right, And if you
Speaker 1: live in the developed world, like a lot of people do,
Speaker 1: especially those that are purchasing n FPS, we live in
Speaker 1: a society that's based off the endorsement models. Right, Like
Speaker 1: you go to the bank, You're happy you're banking with ship.
Speaker 1: You're happy you're banking with Bank of America because that
Speaker 1: is a standard and a symbol of transparency and a
Speaker 1: symbol of, like, you know, a certain level of service
Speaker 1: that you can expect to have from these parties. You
Speaker 1: go to West Africa, you go to undevelop the parts
Speaker 1: of the world, you don't have that same luxury. I'm
Speaker 1: will Lucas, Mrs Black Tech, green money. I'm gonna into
Speaker 1: to use some of the biggest names, some of the
Speaker 1: brightest mines and brilliant ideas. I feel black and building
Speaker 1: simply using tech to secure your bank. This podcast is
Speaker 1: for you, Solo se says, chief operating officer and co
Speaker 1: founder of Calaxy, open social marketplace for creators by creators
Speaker 1: that aims to reimagine the entertainment industry and fundamental ways
Speaker 1: which we all interact with digitally. I'm at solo in
Speaker 1: person to April Tech Exact Miami, where he spent a
Speaker 1: lot of time talking about how the metaverse will change
Speaker 1: the game for influencers and marketers a solo. If he
Speaker 1: were to zoom, I would say three to five years
Speaker 1: from now, how might the metaverse change our lives in
Speaker 1: tangible ways? What will be different and say than it
Speaker 1: is right now? Yeah, I mean, I think from my perspective,
Speaker 1: the metaverse is something we've been working towards for the
Speaker 1: last couple of decades, right you think about it, with
Speaker 1: the rise of social media within itself or Xbox Live
Speaker 1: or gaming platforms, online gaming and the bloom that we've
Speaker 1: seen over the last couple of decades, the metaverse is
Speaker 1: something that's been here for a while. I think we're
Speaker 1: just seeing new use cases of technology and the integration
Speaker 1: with blockchain and how powerful it really can be in
Speaker 1: terms of putting together more collaboration and allowing for those
Speaker 1: coptunities to happen. So when I zoom out five years,
Speaker 1: I think that the metaverse is gonna be very key
Speaker 1: to the way in which that we meet with people,
Speaker 1: the way we collaborate, the way it waits. The world smaller.
Speaker 1: If you've looked at the world, you know, the history
Speaker 1: of the world from the beginning of the time UM,
Speaker 1: the world has continually became a smaller and smaller place UM,
Speaker 1: which has created many pathways to more collaboration UM and
Speaker 1: integrations and things like that. So I think we're gonna
Speaker 1: see meta versus be a lot more interoferable. I think
Speaker 1: that's the next step. UM. You know where you're you know,
Speaker 1: personality and image is helpful in one place, leveraging it
Speaker 1: to another place and just that interoperability aspect um that
Speaker 1: is so easily achieved from blockchain is kind of what
Speaker 1: I can expect us to see in the short to
Speaker 1: medium term. But UM, you know, it's definitely something that's
Speaker 1: here to stay. But quite honestly, I think the misconception
Speaker 1: at the moment is it's something that's new. UM. It's
Speaker 1: definitely been something that's been a pinnacle of the way
Speaker 1: in which that we've you know, grown up with technology
Speaker 1: and you see kids nowadays, I think they will only
Speaker 1: know a world UM that is integrated with a metaverse.
Speaker 1: Right my little brother who is seventeen in high school now,
Speaker 1: like they're very very you know, gen z e ars
Speaker 1: are very into the Internet, They're very into the world.
Speaker 1: They're into their virtual personalities and things like that. Um,
Speaker 1: so I think we're going to continue to see more
Speaker 1: of that in the future. You've done this a couple
Speaker 1: of times in that statement. I don't think people appreciate
Speaker 1: this enough. But you talk about the metaverse in the plural.
Speaker 1: When I hear people talk about the metaverse, they talk
Speaker 1: about the metaverse like there will be one that we're
Speaker 1: all in. Can you describe why you're using it in
Speaker 1: the plural form? Yeah, I mean, I think the main
Speaker 1: thing is there's it's too early to tell where the
Speaker 1: where the victors will be. And I think the ethos
Speaker 1: of blockchain is really not necessarily about what the best
Speaker 1: investment is or what the best technology is. It's really
Speaker 1: about having use cases for different things. Right. So, like
Speaker 1: the technology that underpins many cryptocurrencies, right, um has a
Speaker 1: lot of use cases that make sense for certain things,
Speaker 1: but not necessarily sense for other things. Right. So extrapolating
Speaker 1: that and thinking about the metaverse, right, I think the
Speaker 1: technology that underpins the metaverse will admittedly be different, whether
Speaker 1: it's coming from different ecosystems or in general that use cases.
Speaker 1: I think what we're gonna see is that convergence into
Speaker 1: essentially sure, there will be one metaverse, but the technology
Speaker 1: that inderpends it. I guess that's definitionally how we've thought
Speaker 1: about the metaverse has been attached to the technology, hence
Speaker 1: the plural nature of it. But I think the world
Speaker 1: will only be as successful or as like the best
Speaker 1: place to be will be when there's that collaboration that happens,
Speaker 1: so interoperability something that's really big and Web three right now, um,
Speaker 1: and so you know, personally, from my standpoint, I would
Speaker 1: say that the biggest uh you know thing that we're
Speaker 1: gonna see in the future is really that convergence of
Speaker 1: all these different metaverse and so it doesn't really matter
Speaker 1: you know, where you're spending money and things like that.
Speaker 1: When I would like to analog it to basically think
Speaker 1: of a credit card, right, so, like you go to
Speaker 1: a bank, you buy you know, you get a credit card,
Speaker 1: you have a line of credit. When you leave the country,
Speaker 1: you're still able to use that credit card, and all
Speaker 1: the stuff that you need to worry about is really
Speaker 1: taking care of on the back end, right, Like you
Speaker 1: don't have to think about Oh, well, I'm in Europe,
Speaker 1: so I need euros, so then buy it's wipe my
Speaker 1: credit card. It just happens, right, And I think that's
Speaker 1: kind of the you know, practicality point of it too.
Speaker 1: But then also like when the world becomes that way,
Speaker 1: that's when you see a rapid adoption of the metamors.
Speaker 1: When it's that simple. The best technology that we have
Speaker 1: and I always say this and no you and I
Speaker 1: were talking about it last time, but the best technology
Speaker 1: in the world has created a convenience factor and it's
Speaker 1: easy to use. It's never been something that's been required
Speaker 1: to use a dictionary or encyclopedia to gain knowledge on it.
Speaker 1: It's something that makes sense right all of us, you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of us drive every single day and we
Speaker 1: don't know what actually happens under the hood of our car.
Speaker 1: Um you turn the key and you press up, right,
Speaker 1: Like technology needs to get to that point for mass adoption.
Speaker 1: It doesn't need to be the case that you need
Speaker 1: to be an engineer to drive a car. So why
Speaker 1: do you need to be a cryptographist or some blockchain
Speaker 1: nerd to really be participate in the meta rise. So
Speaker 1: that's kind of what I mean by interoperability, it's for
Speaker 1: a convenience factor if anything. So, are you saying that
Speaker 1: there may be, you know, a metaverse for work in
Speaker 1: another metaverse to hang out with my buddies, like like
Speaker 1: a group chat sort of metaverse like to where we
Speaker 1: just all have access to this one, but there may
Speaker 1: be another one that I hang out with family on.
Speaker 1: Are you are you? Are you saying that it may
Speaker 1: be that sort of situation where there's several different things
Speaker 1: I would say from your from the perspective of us,
Speaker 1: it won't really matter, Like I think there will be
Speaker 1: enough interoperability and integration to the point where everything happened seamlessly.
Speaker 1: So even if in theory you're switching metaverse is like
Speaker 1: your user experience, your journey as a person will be
Speaker 1: remain constant, right Like, So that's kind of what I'm
Speaker 1: getting at, Like, I think that's kind of the future
Speaker 1: of this technology is when it's as simple as plug
Speaker 1: in play. Um, you know, no matter where you are,
Speaker 1: you buy a pair of air pods, it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: if you have this iPhone, that iPhone, that whatever. You
Speaker 1: can use them everywhere, right Like, interoperability is what I'm
Speaker 1: talking about, Yes, I look at so I have little
Speaker 1: kids and I watched them grow up in this world
Speaker 1: where they would rather have And I'm kind of diverging
Speaker 1: from just metaverse but also n f T s and
Speaker 1: things like that. I would I would bet you if
Speaker 1: I handed them a twenty dollar bill and twenty in roebucks,
Speaker 1: they would have a difficult time picking which one is
Speaker 1: more valuable to them. And so what would you say
Speaker 1: about because you just talked about this, We're already familiar
Speaker 1: with the metaverse has been here for some time in
Speaker 1: some other forms, but with the generation that is coming up,
Speaker 1: in the generation now your yours in mind, where we
Speaker 1: are getting adopted to this thing, what does that world
Speaker 1: look like? Are we spending most of our days with
Speaker 1: goggles on? And is that what it looked like? Uh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think this is an interesting question just
Speaker 1: because of the fact that it kind of gives you
Speaker 1: Big brother Rob's right, Like you're really wondering about what
Speaker 1: the world really looks like. Are we ever gonna have
Speaker 1: human the human interaction again? And I think, you know,
Speaker 1: just like with anything, I think there are use in
Speaker 1: cer technology that makes sense, um all the time. Just
Speaker 1: because you have a car doesn't mean it's the best
Speaker 1: thing for you to do, like to drive from New
Speaker 1: York to l A. Like you'll probably hop on a plane, right, So, like,
Speaker 1: I think you just take it that way, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: you take it one step at a time and kind
Speaker 1: of see what the use cases developed. And the beautiful
Speaker 1: thing about this space is, at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: the best use cases for the technology haven't been discovered yet,
Speaker 1: right And to like, the way in which that we're
Speaker 1: even thinking about using the metaverse can be very different
Speaker 1: from what actually materializes in the future. And so I
Speaker 1: think right now the most important thing is for people,
Speaker 1: you know, like us, people of color, like they really
Speaker 1: need to embrace these technologies and kind of become early
Speaker 1: adopters of them because they are going to underpin a
Speaker 1: lot of the different things that we do in the future.
Speaker 1: But ultimately, like in terms of what it looks like,
Speaker 1: you know, I think we'll definitely seeing a lot of
Speaker 1: different integrations of it in the workplace and then potentially
Speaker 1: in the social scenes as well. But outside of that, right,
Speaker 1: like when you're thinking about grocery shopping or you're thinking
Speaker 1: about working out, whatever it may be, you know, it
Speaker 1: might be something that would be interesting in terms of
Speaker 1: like what those use cases develop over time. But I'd
Speaker 1: be pretty confident to say that, you know, in the
Speaker 1: next three to five years, you know, we'll be spending
Speaker 1: a lot more time in the metaverse as a general population,
Speaker 1: with the heavy users probably aping into it a lot
Speaker 1: more than others. But now is the time to just
Speaker 1: become aware and really learn about what these technologies could
Speaker 1: be useful for. I'm glad you mentioned that because I wonder,
Speaker 1: particularly around n f T s, are we asking the
Speaker 1: right questions about what they can mean for creators? Because
Speaker 1: I was I was watching, um, you've probably seen this.
Speaker 1: Tiler the creator had you know, a rant about n
Speaker 1: f T s that last week, and he was talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, what is an n f T like when
Speaker 1: he's really outside he's got friends who are building speakers
Speaker 1: by hand, and he's traveling all over the world and
Speaker 1: little little cars, and he's really experiencing life in analog right,
Speaker 1: and his questions like, what isn't n f T when
Speaker 1: we're doing these things for real? And so what my
Speaker 1: question is like, are we asking the right questions about today?
Speaker 1: Are we asking the right questions about the value of
Speaker 1: a digital asset. Yeah, I think the most important thing
Speaker 1: when you think about digital assets is that the idea
Speaker 1: of value in general, like take a step back, have
Speaker 1: to do with what we assigned to it as people. Right,
Speaker 1: Like at the end of the day, like the dollar
Speaker 1: is just paper. It's just like it used to be
Speaker 1: backed by gold, it used to actually be representative, representative
Speaker 1: of something else, but at the moment it's just paper.
Speaker 1: We assigned value to it. And so when you think
Speaker 1: about what we assigned value on generally as a side
Speaker 1: society is over the last two decades, like I've been
Speaker 1: pointing to before, is we've assigned more value to what
Speaker 1: we've seen behind our screens and in the virtual world
Speaker 1: than we had you know, the previous years before, right,
Speaker 1: And so when you think about n f T s,
Speaker 1: I think they fall in that same bucket where you know,
Speaker 1: I think in one vein yes, like I think digital
Speaker 1: assets are going to have a value just because of
Speaker 1: the fact that they're you know, digital assets. But I
Speaker 1: think the utility argument is going to be what becomes
Speaker 1: very key and helps, I guess, allows people to really
Speaker 1: understand even though it's not a situation or a concept
Speaker 1: that we're that's you know, all that new or unfamiliar right,
Speaker 1: Like like I was saying before dollars or what we
Speaker 1: assign them, and we seem to accept that and accept
Speaker 1: that as commonplace. There will be a time where n
Speaker 1: f T has become that as well. But you know,
Speaker 1: in this sort of pivotal transitional inflection point of time, UM,
Speaker 1: I think what's gonna happen is you're gonna see the
Speaker 1: utility argument grill where you're gonna see that use of
Speaker 1: the n T as an actual good or something that's
Speaker 1: helpful in your life and that will allow you to
Speaker 1: bring some sort of tangible value to you. Um. I
Speaker 1: think that in conjunction with us understanding about how we
Speaker 1: really assigned value to things as a society is like
Speaker 1: super important. Um And so like I think what the
Speaker 1: most important thing is like as a as a creator,
Speaker 1: you understanding all the I P that you sit on
Speaker 1: in all of these different things. This is the most
Speaker 1: efficient way for you to monetize your intellectual property on
Speaker 1: a perpetual basis. That is super important. And collectiles the creator,
Speaker 1: they have such a big following, they're already you know,
Speaker 1: have such a status about them that they're probably able
Speaker 1: to do all right for them though, But the real
Speaker 1: kicker is when you have mid creator, middle labs, people
Speaker 1: that are you know, looking. I don't know if people
Speaker 1: do research these days, but the amount of people that
Speaker 1: make their primary means of income off of the Internet
Speaker 1: has skyrocketed over the last five to ten years. So
Speaker 1: for those people that aren't rich, like those people that
Speaker 1: you know have been able to create a life for
Speaker 1: themselves on the internet their influencers, but they may have
Speaker 1: trouble paying their bills. Like that's why this technology is
Speaker 1: super important for them, right. It recreates and it basically
Speaker 1: makes the situation way more equitable for those people where
Speaker 1: it's actually counts. You know, you mentioned that you know
Speaker 1: when things become easy to use, and you don't have
Speaker 1: to be a computer scientist to understand that. That's when things,
Speaker 1: you know, get that mainstream adoption, et cetera. And I
Speaker 1: wonder if p FPS these profile pictures sorts of n
Speaker 1: f T s are just an easy way for us
Speaker 1: to understand what it can do. Because you mentioned utility,
Speaker 1: so I wonder, like, is is the p FP the
Speaker 1: board ape, the crypto, the crypto punk, the you know,
Speaker 1: pick a pick one a noun or whatever. Are they
Speaker 1: just like one oh one levels of what an n
Speaker 1: f T really can mean for us. Absolutely, those are
Speaker 1: the entry points. And I think when people ask you
Speaker 1: about what an n f T is, right, Like, I
Speaker 1: think people will get very confused right there, like what
Speaker 1: is an m T? And then I think you step
Speaker 1: back and you explain what the difference and you fungible
Speaker 1: in a non fungible asset. And then you take a
Speaker 1: step forward and you're like, Okay, why do I care
Speaker 1: about this digital image that I could easily take a
Speaker 1: screenshot of? Right? And the fact of the matter is
Speaker 1: it's really the idea of ownership and be able to
Speaker 1: prove it. Bragging rights. That's humanity, right, Like we all
Speaker 1: love to brag about all the stuff that we do
Speaker 1: own and everything that we're associated with. That's just human nature.
Speaker 1: And so profile picture verification basically the idea of having
Speaker 1: you know, verified n f T s as your profile
Speaker 1: picture is a sense status, right, That's what people really
Speaker 1: care about. And so like, if you can go and
Speaker 1: make it your profile picture, two, can you took a
Speaker 1: screenshot of it? That's very different than the person that
Speaker 1: if you click their in tells all the meta day
Speaker 1: about this actual mpy that you own. Right, that's like
Speaker 1: the equivalent of basically going to a museum, finding the
Speaker 1: Mona Lisa and taking a picture of it. Great, you
Speaker 1: have a picture of the Mona Lisa. So does everybody else.
Speaker 1: But that person that can actually say they verifiably own
Speaker 1: this sort of asset is going to be able to
Speaker 1: say something that you could never say. Right. So, I
Speaker 1: think seeing more avenues like that pop up, we'll add
Speaker 1: that utility argument, which kind of makes the NFP something
Speaker 1: that's useful. Now it's a bragging right now, it's an item.
Speaker 1: And then also when you think about those projects, their clubs,
Speaker 1: so their access, right it allows you to have access
Speaker 1: to certain things and be able to say certain things
Speaker 1: that other people fundamentally can people are there are people
Speaker 1: out there that are belonging to country clubs that never
Speaker 1: frequent or visit them, but just want to be able
Speaker 1: to say I'm a part of this club, right. So
Speaker 1: this is all human nature, and so I think when
Speaker 1: people are trying to make sense of this, try to
Speaker 1: create analogs to the normal life that you will understand,
Speaker 1: to try and understand for something that it's completely not
Speaker 1: like or something that's different, right, And so I think
Speaker 1: those are a few things that you really think about it,
Speaker 1: and then you think about, you know, the idea of
Speaker 1: that access being pinned too, like an event or something
Speaker 1: like a physical item or an experience that you can
Speaker 1: really get, and then you really see the true power
Speaker 1: of entities UM a bunch, you know, and then five
Speaker 1: years down the line, I might rewatch this, might rewatch
Speaker 1: this and be like wow. So I really only talked
Speaker 1: about you know, five of this actually ended up being
Speaker 1: worth you know that I'm interested in your take on
Speaker 1: this UM idea because and it's particularly around the investment
Speaker 1: thesis around you know, crypto Punk's board ape and et cetera.
Speaker 1: Because I was thinking about n f T s and
Speaker 1: you know, you can anybody can go to Open Sea,
Speaker 1: which we talk a lot about on this show, and
Speaker 1: you know, find something they may want to buy, something
Speaker 1: they want to invest in. And for the longest time,
Speaker 1: I would not buy an n f T if it
Speaker 1: was not stored in like I p f S or
Speaker 1: you know off you know, outside of somebody's you know,
Speaker 1: a w S server or whatever wherever they're serving it.
Speaker 1: Because I was you know, cautious around the idea of
Speaker 1: a rock plot. This thing could go away. You know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't decentralized. It was stored on somebody's central you
Speaker 1: know thing. And I wonder, I had to rethink that
Speaker 1: because I'm thinking, why does it have to last forever?
Speaker 1: Why does it have to be you know, immutable? Why
Speaker 1: does it have to If I may not care about
Speaker 1: this thing five just now, I may want to sell it,
Speaker 1: like does it have to be on I p f S?
Speaker 1: Does it have to be on the Interplanetary file System?
Speaker 1: And I wonder what your thought is when you might
Speaker 1: be buying a n f T. Do you care much
Speaker 1: about where it's stored? I have personally care where it's stored. Um,
Speaker 1: but I'm pretty deep in this space. But I think
Speaker 1: in the rise of security, and I think, you know,
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting because I think for me, as
Speaker 1: a blockchain enthusiast, somebody that's very deep in this space,
Speaker 1: the idea of decentralization really resonates to me also being
Speaker 1: somebody from West Africa and like having a different point
Speaker 1: of view when thinking about decentralization. It's super important, right,
Speaker 1: So like when you take a step back, why would
Speaker 1: somebody like centralization because it probably does make sense in
Speaker 1: a lot of situations, right, And if you live in
Speaker 1: the developed world, like a lot of people do, especially
Speaker 1: those that are purchasing n fp s, we live in
Speaker 1: its society that's based off the endorsement model, right, Like
Speaker 1: you go to the bank, You're happy you're banking with Shape.
Speaker 1: You're happy you're banking with Bank of America because that
Speaker 1: is a standard and a symbol of transparency and a
Speaker 1: symbol of, like, you know, a certain level of service
Speaker 1: that you can expect to have from these parties. You
Speaker 1: go to West Africa, you go to undevelop the parts
Speaker 1: of the world, you don't have that same luxury. So like,
Speaker 1: already in my mind, the way in which I think
Speaker 1: about a bank is very different than somebody that grew
Speaker 1: up in the developed world, right, And so I think
Speaker 1: what we're seeing and obviously you see now Latin American country,
Speaker 1: you see countries in Africa, Nigeria is a very large
Speaker 1: trade of crypto. You have people that are embracing this
Speaker 1: idea of decentralization because you don't have to trust the
Speaker 1: other side of it, right, And so like for me personally,
Speaker 1: that resonates with me. But I think in terms of
Speaker 1: you know, every single user there might be centralized solutions
Speaker 1: or you know, even taking a more step back, the
Speaker 1: idea is centralization and decentralizations and spectrum right, like, you're
Speaker 1: not entirely decentralized, you're not entirely centralized, or you don't
Speaker 1: have to be right, and so in my mind, I
Speaker 1: think everybody kind of lives on that spectrum where they're at.
Speaker 1: For me, it's probably more supposed to decentralization perspective, just
Speaker 1: because I know that the merits of the technology are
Speaker 1: and the tough of my personal I would say for everyone,
Speaker 1: I think you kind of move at your own risk,
Speaker 1: and you could take this, you know, a different level too.
Speaker 1: When you're buying crypto, right, you can buy a crypto
Speaker 1: a decentralized exchange all day or exchange like fp X
Speaker 1: and coin base, Right, I think most people average people
Speaker 1: going to the central exchanges because there's a certain level
Speaker 1: of vetting that happens before you actually buy the asset.
Speaker 1: But I think also just really depends on who you
Speaker 1: are as a person. Out of what I was I
Speaker 1: was reading something you were talking about the idea of
Speaker 1: tokenizing a person and I'm going to ask you to
Speaker 1: dig into this and what that means, because what could
Speaker 1: it look like? You know, because Galaxy, your company, was
Speaker 1: the original idea was, you know, to financially empower NBA
Speaker 1: players to you know, securitize themselves. You know, so when
Speaker 1: you realize that this could work for more people other
Speaker 1: than just b A players, like, what does it mean
Speaker 1: to tokenize a person? Yeah, So in my previous life,
Speaker 1: I was an investment banker. I worked in securitization, and
Speaker 1: you know, in securitization, as people probably have seen from
Speaker 1: The Big Short and a lot of other financial movies
Speaker 1: that were about the financial crisis, he learned about um
Speaker 1: the different ways in which people have used securitization technology
Speaker 1: to do really cool things and unlock trapped liquidity and
Speaker 1: assets that are traditionally liquid UM. So I think when
Speaker 1: you think about something like an NBA contrast, it's something
Speaker 1: that you're pretty dependent on the cash loow streams coming
Speaker 1: in over a period of time to access that money.
Speaker 1: So if you think about my co founder, Center Dentuity,
Speaker 1: he plays on the Dallas Mavericks, now UM you know
Speaker 1: him that the person could unlock that trop liquidity by
Speaker 1: tokenizing himself right. And so what we did is a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, we went into a battle with
Speaker 1: the NBA. We actually ended up getting sued for him
Speaker 1: tokenizing himself UM. The reason why they sued, or the
Speaker 1: reason why they were upset about doing that because they
Speaker 1: weren't fully aware about what the use of the technology
Speaker 1: was and they were worried about the intentive issues that
Speaker 1: could come with a player getting paid up front versus
Speaker 1: later on. So we ended up moving to a bond
Speaker 1: like structure through a securitization UM. And I think what
Speaker 1: that really allowed us to be is really empower the
Speaker 1: creators and the assets that they are themselves. And so
Speaker 1: when you think about, you know, back in the day,
Speaker 1: when you close your eyes, there were people, you know,
Speaker 1: even when I was citing um and banking ver there um,
Speaker 1: there were people wondering about, how would you ever tokenized
Speaker 1: Lebron James, Like he's so famous, he's so big as
Speaker 1: a person, Like how probably veria, how you Lebron James
Speaker 1: as a person. And that was kind of the first
Speaker 1: step in really us doing that. And so like we
Speaker 1: thought that through these tokens or personal tokens, personal tokenization
Speaker 1: that's kind of our first step into eventually having somebody
Speaker 1: like in his Zko Elliott, somebody like a Tiana Taylor,
Speaker 1: somebody that's a very large person with a publicly verifiable
Speaker 1: market cap UM for them to be tokenized UM and
Speaker 1: for people to be able to participate in that ukation
Speaker 1: that is them as the asset. And so that's kind
Speaker 1: of where we started. Eventually moved into the idea of
Speaker 1: monetizing yourself as a creator, and that means a lot
Speaker 1: of different things. Forever people so like Spencer happens to
Speaker 1: have an NBA contract that can be token on, but
Speaker 1: a lot of people, their image and their likeness and
Speaker 1: their communities are worth tonizing. And so with Calaxy, we
Speaker 1: decided to take that idea and basically take this foreign
Speaker 1: concept of blockchain and apply it to things like social
Speaker 1: media and commerce that things are already familiar with. So
Speaker 1: you take personal tokens and you use those as the
Speaker 1: method of being able to purchase things like video calls,
Speaker 1: things like video messages, exclusive content, things like the cameras
Speaker 1: the Patreons of the world that are putting out for
Speaker 1: the top ten percent of these fans. UM. We took
Speaker 1: that utility and attached it to a blockchain based asset um,
Speaker 1: and so we did that because we thought that one,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a market for that to be involve
Speaker 1: validated by the success of those platforms, but too, it's
Speaker 1: a unique way to kind of introduce the idea of
Speaker 1: a social token and your own economy and be able
Speaker 1: to kind of monetize yourself as an asset um. And
Speaker 1: so the beauty of it is, at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, no matter what happens to Calaxy, what happens
Speaker 1: to any other application on the creators got there any
Speaker 1: world with your token, you get to own your tokens
Speaker 1: no matter what um. So if Calacu went bankrupt, God forbid,
Speaker 1: obviously that's not what we're going for. But the idea
Speaker 1: is really if it went your tokens would exist forever,
Speaker 1: just like your n f t s would exist for
Speaker 1: exact where ever, etcetera. And that's the point of the centralization.
Speaker 1: A lot of creators that make money off of these platforms,
Speaker 1: if they go under tomorrow, the awful revenue stream is
Speaker 1: gone from that, and so we're kind of moving away
Speaker 1: from that. And that's kind of like our journey uh
Speaker 1: with the contract ce Curavation and Ultimate Calaxy. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: glad you mentioned that because I was when I first
Speaker 1: got into U n f T s Ross Gold and
Speaker 1: would have introduced me to the idea of, you know,
Speaker 1: how I should invest in entities. And my first n
Speaker 1: f T was an NBA Top Shot n f T
Speaker 1: and I'm still not completely sold on it, and maybe
Speaker 1: you could educate me because it doesn't feel like it's
Speaker 1: it's not it's not interoperable. I can't move it and
Speaker 1: I don't really own it. I just kind of own
Speaker 1: it in this this place, like I can't take it.
Speaker 1: I can't take it and move it around with me.
Speaker 1: And so m I wonder because you just talked about
Speaker 1: you know, if if if I'm investing in something on Calaxy,
Speaker 1: if Calaxy God Forbid goes away, it's still yours, Like
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel the same like on an NBA Top shot.
Speaker 1: So it helped me understand if I'm wrong there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I would say so shout out to the NBA
Speaker 1: Top Shot guys. Dropper Labs is actually an advised through Calaxy. UM.
Speaker 1: He's a good personal friend of ours, you know, to
Speaker 1: the business and so um there are formerly partners of ours.
Speaker 1: We're super excited to talk about what our plane might
Speaker 1: look like. Um, but you will be able to essentially
Speaker 1: move some of those assets around and be able to
Speaker 1: kind of brag about from the assens that you do own. Um,
Speaker 1: so I would probably leave it there for our you know,
Speaker 1: talked about how we will plan to work are together.
Speaker 1: You'll have to stay tune and follow us as a
Speaker 1: project on ourselve shows and obviously follow them for how
Speaker 1: we plan to work together. But um, in terms of that, yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I mean, I know that the flow blockchain and
Speaker 1: what they've been doing over there, they've been the biggest
Speaker 1: I think they've been the biggest sale behind you know,
Speaker 1: the wave that we're experiencing now. When it comes to
Speaker 1: n f t s. Everybody loves tech and everybody loves sports,
Speaker 1: and I think what those guys were able to do
Speaker 1: is really help, you know, create a very cool use
Speaker 1: case of the technology, right. And it's quite funny that
Speaker 1: n f t s are the thing that got people
Speaker 1: talking about blocking and crypto and you know, there's so
Speaker 1: much utility that comes from the in the structure that
Speaker 1: in depends it. But um, you know them, that's the
Speaker 1: project they're they're definitely doing a lot of great things
Speaker 1: and they're you know, working on their ways to come
Speaker 1: up with different ways for people to be able to
Speaker 1: use their talk top moments move their top moments. And
Speaker 1: then obviously, um, you know other projects that are building
Speaker 1: on the flow blockchain as well, Like they have a
Speaker 1: lot of different things coming as well, and so for them,
Speaker 1: we're we're we're very bolish that project, um as well.
Speaker 1: It's I was I was gonna. I did download the
Speaker 1: howasy app. I'm on the wait list actually, so I
Speaker 1: have a question about how it could work, so maybe
Speaker 1: you could help there. Yeah, I'm on the wait list
Speaker 1: for the beta. But there's a question about storytelling because
Speaker 1: from what I understand about how collexy works, it's best
Speaker 1: in the immediate if you already have a following. And
Speaker 1: so I wonder and you can correct me if I'm
Speaker 1: wrong in that idea, but I wonder how it could
Speaker 1: work for somebody who's trying to build a following. Yeah, no, absolutely,
Speaker 1: So I'd say from our perspective, it's great to have
Speaker 1: the big names. It's a big the celebrities, because it
Speaker 1: brings notoriety to your project. And we live in the
Speaker 1: endorsement model world right, Like we talked about that, right,
Speaker 1: So if you have a platform that DKL is I cool.
Speaker 1: I'm arriving with that. I'm a creator, That's how I moved.
Speaker 1: But I think what we really value at Calaxi is
Speaker 1: the middle class creator, Like that is gonna be what
Speaker 1: we hang our hats on at the end of the day.
Speaker 1: So that's a segment for us that's super important, has
Speaker 1: a lot of our intention, right and so yes, nice
Speaker 1: to help out the people or build a platform and
Speaker 1: make sense for the people with a million followers. But
Speaker 1: those people that don't have quite crazy following, um, you know,
Speaker 1: they too are content creators, and they too are famous
Speaker 1: to somebody, right, Like, at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: they are famous to somebody. If you have people that
Speaker 1: are looking at for your content, supporting your content, willing
Speaker 1: to pay in support for your content, you're a creator. Um,
Speaker 1: We're all creators in our own right, and so for
Speaker 1: us at the platform right now, these is a very
Speaker 1: concerned plan to help um, you know, through different programs
Speaker 1: and different creators stimulus things that we're looking to do
Speaker 1: hopefully on in the ecosystem to promote the growth of
Speaker 1: the creator middle class. But it's definitely super important. Um.
Speaker 1: I think in gay one, it's super nice to have
Speaker 1: the large creators to bring notoriety and bring um buzz
Speaker 1: to your project, But the middle class is super important
Speaker 1: for us. So talk about like the differences in because
Speaker 1: when I hear this, I immediately think about things like
Speaker 1: indiego go and Patreon and you know, crowdfunding, you know,
Speaker 1: or even like fan base on the others high we
Speaker 1: you know, shout out to Isaac. I wonder where Calaxy
Speaker 1: fits in the idea of you know, incentivizing or you know,
Speaker 1: subscribing to content or whatever from an influencer. Yeah. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I would say Calaxy is its own beast Quart honestly.
Speaker 1: And I know everyone's gonna get on their phone and
Speaker 1: they're gonna get on these calls and kind of seeing
Speaker 1: this praises of their own products. But there is nothing
Speaker 1: like Calaxy in the market, right, There's nothing that makes
Speaker 1: it super easy for you to create your own token
Speaker 1: and have a marketplace for you to redeem the access
Speaker 1: and use it for something, right, Like that's the difference
Speaker 1: between what we are and like the blockchain slade. So
Speaker 1: we sit at a very unique intersection of Web three
Speaker 1: and Web two. Right, So the Web two components are
Speaker 1: the ones that you're talking about. You're talking about You're
Speaker 1: talking about fan Time, you're talking about Patreon, you're talking
Speaker 1: about Cana, You're talking about all these things. But those
Speaker 1: don't help you with ownership and i P they're not
Speaker 1: built on a blockchain, right. So basically what we did
Speaker 1: is we saw that there's a market here and we
Speaker 1: believe we're all of the opinion here at Calaxy that
Speaker 1: the world is moving to Web three. Regardless, you're gonna
Speaker 1: have web to Entrance looking to move into Web three,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna have new Web three guys like ourselves
Speaker 1: try to capture market show there. We want to be
Speaker 1: those guys that meet the massive audience in a way
Speaker 1: that makes sense for them. So, like we took the utility,
Speaker 1: the commerce, the things that people are buying on these apps,
Speaker 1: attached it to a social presence of blockchain based appet asset,
Speaker 1: and created an app where had a user experience that
Speaker 1: was super easy for these creators to be able to
Speaker 1: ultimately use them. And so I think from our perspective, um,
Speaker 1: you know, that's what makes cality very unique is we
Speaker 1: ultimately want to be that stop shop for creators to
Speaker 1: monetize themselves. We want to be the easiest arm ramp
Speaker 1: into Web three for these creators um as well as
Speaker 1: their fans. And so you know, you're able to do
Speaker 1: things like those video calls, the videos like those video calls,
Speaker 1: video messages, the subscription content and things like that of
Speaker 1: that nature. But you're also able to do n f
Speaker 1: T s. You're also able to do different DeFi plays.
Speaker 1: You're all to be able to tokenize yourself so that
Speaker 1: maybe one day, if you're Lebron James and you went broke,
Speaker 1: for god forbid, what knows, like what reason you own
Speaker 1: happier token? Supply you walk into a defy like bank
Speaker 1: and because you're Lebron James and you have a publicly
Speaker 1: verifiable value, because you have a token with a token
Speaker 1: that's circulating and supply you can borrow money against that
Speaker 1: right Like, it's a completely different world of possibility that
Speaker 1: you're open to by one. And so that's what makes
Speaker 1: it very different. And fundamentally we can do a lot
Speaker 1: of things that other other platforms can. So I wonder
Speaker 1: your your ideas on medium to long term regulation of
Speaker 1: these things. And because I think about and I've heard
Speaker 1: you talk about this like Squid Games, that that token
Speaker 1: that they put out and you know, they were a
Speaker 1: popular show on Netflix and they somebody put out a
Speaker 1: token around it in rugpool like these they scammer that
Speaker 1: took off with the bag. And so I wonder when
Speaker 1: you're thinking about how we look with regards to relation
Speaker 1: in the near medium, near term, do you is that
Speaker 1: something that you embrace, you want the government to look
Speaker 1: at this, or do you believe that the decentralized, distributed
Speaker 1: population of people can govern themselves. That's a great question.
Speaker 1: I think it's a very well discussed topic right now.
Speaker 1: I would say from my selective the regulatory landscape is
Speaker 1: very unclear. UM. So I think what people in industry, experts,
Speaker 1: people like myself around UM the industry are waiting for,
Speaker 1: excited for the clarity that we do that. I do
Speaker 1: think there's a role for regulation to play UM And
Speaker 1: I think when you think about blockchain in general, I
Speaker 1: think it's an educational experience that needs to happen. Right
Speaker 1: you need to understand the differences between a decentralized e
Speaker 1: change and a centralized change. The squid token where people
Speaker 1: are able to basically rug pull people out of it.
Speaker 1: You need to understand that, Like when you're buying something
Speaker 1: up a decentralized exchange, there is no sort of vetting
Speaker 1: process that really happens for an aspet to it listed there.
Speaker 1: So like that's different than what point based chooses lists, right,
Speaker 1: very different than what it chooses to lift um. So
Speaker 1: I think that perspective, the educational aspect of this is
Speaker 1: super important. And then when you think about securities analysis,
Speaker 1: and I have capital markets tact so I think that's
Speaker 1: why that we've been able to leverage a lot of
Speaker 1: our galaxy. But uh, it very much that really understands
Speaker 1: the it vary SOLF really depends on your understanding about
Speaker 1: what the goals of regulators are and essentially what the
Speaker 1: definition of everything is, Like what really is the security? Right?
Speaker 1: Like if you ask the average person, even if they
Speaker 1: own millions of the allays of stocks, they asked them
Speaker 1: what a security, they probably couldn't tell you and like
Speaker 1: under ten words, right, Like, yet we all participate in
Speaker 1: those markets. So like, I don't think it's gonna be
Speaker 1: to the point where you need to understand every single
Speaker 1: in out for it to be you know, a massive option,
Speaker 1: because there are a lot of people that buy stocks
Speaker 1: that don't really know what they're buying, but they're buying
Speaker 1: it because it's a routine. It's a something that we
Speaker 1: embrace as a community. I think moving words, you know,
Speaker 1: at least in the early days of blockchain, it's definitely
Speaker 1: helpful to understand what security is so they can understand
Speaker 1: what you're buying and buying into and like what the
Speaker 1: government it looks like. Necessarily, founders and creators like myself
Speaker 1: that are building in this space, they need to be
Speaker 1: absolutely aware about what those things are. So I do
Speaker 1: think there's definitely a role for regulators to play. Um.
Speaker 1: I think it's also equally important for people that are
Speaker 1: building in the space to do the work and do
Speaker 1: the diligence to really understand, um, you know, what it
Speaker 1: is that they're they're building on and what they're looking
Speaker 1: to build towards. You know. I remember this is kind
Speaker 1: of still have a converse conversation that we have when
Speaker 1: people are learning the code. They're like, Okay, what programming
Speaker 1: language should I use? Should I learn JavaScript? Should I
Speaker 1: learned rail? Should I learn anything? So a lot of
Speaker 1: those that confusion stops them from even making the first
Speaker 1: step into learning how to program. And I hear now
Speaker 1: is a parallel conversation on different blockchains. So we talk
Speaker 1: a lot about ethereum because most n f T s
Speaker 1: you know, running through ethereum. And I heard you have
Speaker 1: a conversation when we were done in Miami about Hidura
Speaker 1: and why you use Hidura. So if you could give
Speaker 1: us like an elevator pitch on maybe not elevate, maybe
Speaker 1: a long elevator ride on the different block chains and
Speaker 1: why you choose some over others. Yeah, no, that's a
Speaker 1: great question. Uh man, I love this question. Okay, So
Speaker 1: I love Hidera one. Uh we love Hidera. Spencer is
Speaker 1: a big fan of Hidera as well. And I think
Speaker 1: when we really think about block chains in general is
Speaker 1: there's usages that make sense for a lot of different things.
Speaker 1: Until like what Ada has done very well is one
Speaker 1: they've created an algorithm that is asynchronous business TINAE fault tolerant.
Speaker 1: It comes to full financial finality in a matter of seconds.
Speaker 1: Also in general, like when you're thinking about what we're
Speaker 1: looking to build a high volume commerce app, transactions to
Speaker 1: people need to be very very very short, right, Like
Speaker 1: when you go to the store and swribe your card,
Speaker 1: like you don't want to weight there in line for
Speaker 1: an hour or thirty events before your card goes through,
Speaker 1: like it needs to be in seconds. Right, that's the
Speaker 1: type of experience that we're going for in calix see.
Speaker 1: And that's same type of experience that we need in
Speaker 1: the brought in these you know, greener more you know, greener,
Speaker 1: newer audiences that are coming into web three. Um. And Additionally,
Speaker 1: when we think about a company or like blockchain rather
Speaker 1: sorry like Canderaction, technically not even blockching, it's a blockchain
Speaker 1: alternative called hash graft UM. And I think because of that, um,
Speaker 1: that's kind of that technology is unlocked the different things
Speaker 1: with speed, transparency and security. Right, they've done that very well. Um.
Speaker 1: And additionally, the blockchain is owned by and governed by
Speaker 1: a number of different fortune companies. And so when I
Speaker 1: think about the adoption of blockchain, UM, you know, the
Speaker 1: beauty of it is when you think about there, you're
Speaker 1: thinking about Google, You're thinking about Deutsche Telecom, you're thinking
Speaker 1: about l G, you're thinking about all these Nemorra, You're
Speaker 1: thinking about all these very large companies that people are
Speaker 1: already comfortable with any in an endorsement society, right when
Speaker 1: you think about Ethereum, like they're faceless people validing your transaction,
Speaker 1: and yet it's decentralized. But the government can't wrap their
Speaker 1: head around that in the same way that like they
Speaker 1: already audit and already probe these other companies from the
Speaker 1: other side, right when you think about Hedera. So when
Speaker 1: you think about from that perspective, I'm very bullish on
Speaker 1: the government looking at Hedera and being okay or at
Speaker 1: least a lot more okay with it versus the annanymity
Speaker 1: it's attached to some of these other blockchains, right, So
Speaker 1: that's kind of the one thing too. And then at
Speaker 1: a very general level too, when you think about blockchains
Speaker 1: in general, the most important he is really thinking about,
Speaker 1: you know, you have a trade off between centralization and
Speaker 1: decentralization being insecurity, those like their your funnels. Right, So
Speaker 1: when you think about Hedera, yes, it's a little bit
Speaker 1: more centralized than something like Ethereum, because you know there
Speaker 1: are the thirty non council members and things like that,
Speaker 1: so yes, you know who they are, you know, validating
Speaker 1: your transactions. But it's a lot different than the millions
Speaker 1: and billions of nodes that are validating transactions from the
Speaker 1: theorius networks. So because of that, it's a lot faster.
Speaker 1: And the way they get around security is the fact
Speaker 1: that these companies have a big reputational risk from doing
Speaker 1: that things, so they're not gonna do bad things. So
Speaker 1: that's kind of how they get over the fact that
Speaker 1: it's more centralized than a decentralized, you know, protocol. But
Speaker 1: that's kind of how they've solved that issue. And so
Speaker 1: while that they've been able to come up with the
Speaker 1: ideal at least for us trade off between security uh
Speaker 1: centralization as well as speed, right, but that might not
Speaker 1: make sense for somebody that's looking to buy or settle
Speaker 1: twenty million dollars of real estate. You want that to
Speaker 1: be the most decentralized immutable protocol UM and you don't
Speaker 1: care if that money shows up in twenty five minutes UM.
Speaker 1: You just want to make sure you're twenty million dollars
Speaker 1: gets there, right, And so there are different uses for
Speaker 1: different blockchains until like a theorium might make sense for
Speaker 1: that UM if you're trying to sell a high value
Speaker 1: n f T because they'll market right now for a
Speaker 1: theorum is undeniably the biggest, and you want to sell
Speaker 1: a million dollar NFC, Well, there's a lot of people
Speaker 1: that owns millions of dollars with a theorium, less people
Speaker 1: owning million dollars of aage bar, right, So I think
Speaker 1: you're going to have to think about these different things
Speaker 1: and facets to determine know what makes sense. And then lastly,
Speaker 1: for us, you know, on their minting an FT is
Speaker 1: six at one dollar, and that's something that resonates really
Speaker 1: well with creators because these gases can be uneconomical for
Speaker 1: people looking to monetize their own ID, especially if you're
Speaker 1: not somebody that's gonna sell a million dollar n f T. Right,
Speaker 1: I can do an NFP drop where I dropped a
Speaker 1: thousand n f T s, and I know that I
Speaker 1: will predictably grow at a constant rate, which is a
Speaker 1: thousand dollars um one dollar per n f T. And
Speaker 1: so I think that's kind of how we think about
Speaker 1: UM the use of Padera and why we chose to
Speaker 1: build on there. You know, I love that I want
Speaker 1: to end this talking about the metaverse and giving people
Speaker 1: like an introductory you know, thing to do. So there
Speaker 1: are folks who hear metaverse and now metaverse is you
Speaker 1: know a lot, and we're trying to we hear about
Speaker 1: people throwing concerts and the metaverse. We here meta Facebook
Speaker 1: is doing in the metaverse, Microsoft is making a play.
Speaker 1: And so if I really want to understand the world
Speaker 1: we're going to, what would you say? They are some
Speaker 1: easy maybe not super easy, but things I should do.
Speaker 1: How can we responsibly be early adopters in the metaverse? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say the most important thing is do your
Speaker 1: research and do your own research. I would say A
Speaker 1: good place and started obviously crypto Twitter, So like Twitter
Speaker 1: has a lot of different places for you to kind
Speaker 1: of make your niche and really see the type of
Speaker 1: content you're looking for. At this point, I only see
Speaker 1: blockchain based content because that's what I care most about.
Speaker 1: I would say there's a lot of metaverse discourse that
Speaker 1: happens on that on those forums, I'd really try to
Speaker 1: double down and really understand what's kind of going in there. Um,
Speaker 1: and then if that also might be intimidating, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of podcasts out there that are super helpful for
Speaker 1: you to understand this type of stuff. We didn't quite
Speaker 1: make this a Metaverse show. But our show on Coin
Speaker 1: Desk New Money with Spencer and Sol we talked to
Speaker 1: creators about how they're monetizing themselves. Um, you know what
Speaker 1: the metaverse might actually mean to them. We do touch
Speaker 1: on that as well. UM, So that could be something
Speaker 1: that helpful as a tool, but by hearing it from
Speaker 1: people that you want to hear from, um, that are
Speaker 1: going to talk to you in a very colloquial manner um,
Speaker 1: that's something that could be very helpful. Um. And then
Speaker 1: also just participating, like I think everybody should start with,
Speaker 1: you know, having a metal mask, having some sort of wallet,
Speaker 1: um for kind of get yourself in the space, and
Speaker 1: then starting to participate in these things. And I know
Speaker 1: that you guys are doing a lot of great stuff
Speaker 1: that avrotecting gravity when it comes to the metaverse, and
Speaker 1: I think that might be the best way that a
Speaker 1: lot of people, at least from our arena, um, you know,
Speaker 1: get involved with the metaverse. Like I think that's great
Speaker 1: what they're you know what what there. But i'd start
Speaker 1: with to start And so I mentioned this because you know,
Speaker 1: we sort of there was a period of time I
Speaker 1: say about a year ago to eighteen months ago, where
Speaker 1: all we were talking about it seemed like to me
Speaker 1: was A R and VR and what that was going
Speaker 1: to mean. And then it seemed like we just blew
Speaker 1: past that and said, you know, forget that what three
Speaker 1: is here? And we just forgot you know, like a
Speaker 1: R was supposed to take over and VR was supposed
Speaker 1: to take over, and so I got introduced to this
Speaker 1: world of the metaverse and like, you know, one of
Speaker 1: my favorite movies, you know, be a Ready Player one.
Speaker 1: And so how how can we think about experiencing the
Speaker 1: metaverse today? To your point, doing a lot of study,
Speaker 1: a lot of research, what are easy things we can
Speaker 1: do to experience it today? Yeah, I mean I would
Speaker 1: say that there will probably be in the very next
Speaker 1: short term. In my opinion personally, I think there will
Speaker 1: be a lot in the gaming sphere that comes with
Speaker 1: them at a risk. And I think, like I said before,
Speaker 1: it's very much so an analog to that train of
Speaker 1: thought when you think about Xbox Live and like people
Speaker 1: playing Halo back in the day and having online personalities
Speaker 1: and the utility of it. I think it's gonna be
Speaker 1: an expanded sense of that. Um, you know, I think
Speaker 1: even on our panel, we had tween he was talking
Speaker 1: about how it felt like a big video game. Um.
Speaker 1: In some ways, that's very true, and I think that's
Speaker 1: gonna be the you know, the first way to see
Speaker 1: it and expand on it. And I would say that
Speaker 1: that would probably be the first thing, um in terms
Speaker 1: of that, Like I would be on the lookout for that.
Speaker 1: If you happen to the game a lot, um, that'd
Speaker 1: be super important. But also there's just a lot of
Speaker 1: events that are gonna be done in the beta verse,
Speaker 1: like COVID definitely helped propel that to the Ford until
Speaker 1: like things like Afro Attack and things like, um, you know,
Speaker 1: other conferences and things like that for you to kind
Speaker 1: of dive in and really get your feet wet um
Speaker 1: are probably the first places to start, you know, if
Speaker 1: you want to like learn by trial on the fire
Speaker 1: if that means sense Black Tech Green money to production
Speaker 1: of Black They Afro Tech on the Black Effect Podcast
Speaker 1: Network and iHeart Media. It's produced by Morgan Dubonne and
Speaker 1: me Well Lucas, with additional productive support by Love Beach
Speaker 1: and Rissa Lewis. Especially thank you to Michael Davis. Your
Speaker 1: main hall on's a car savan Yan. You know like
Speaker 1: the Wine. Yes that's his real name. Learn more about
Speaker 1: my Guess and other tech distrum as an innovators at
Speaker 1: afrotech dot com. The video version of this episode. We'll
Speaker 1: drop the Black Tech Green Money on YouTube next week.
Speaker 1: South Tap is enjoining Black Tech Green Money. It's just
Speaker 1: a five star radying on iTunes. You can beat your money.
Speaker 1: Peace of love, yeah,