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Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear. Listening to hunt podcast,

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Speaker 1: you can't predict anything presented by first, like creating proven

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Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear

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Speaker 1: for every hunt. First like go farther, stay longer, Listen up.

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Speaker 1: This is honest pitelist from meat Eater, and I need

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Speaker 1: your help. I'm going to be at the National Wild

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Speaker 1: Turkey Federation's Annual Convention in Nashville, Tennessee this year, and

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Speaker 1: I'm looking for the best Turkey storytellers alive. Now. I

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Speaker 1: know we all have a good turkey story to tell,

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Speaker 1: but I want you to think about who you know

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Speaker 1: that tells an absolutely riveting turkey tale a person and

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Speaker 1: that draws everyone in the room to their story. Bring

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Speaker 1: them to me. I'm going to be at Ryman's Studios

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Speaker 1: in the same building as a convention, set up with

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Speaker 1: recording equipment and fill. The engineer is going to be

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Speaker 1: there to make sure it sounds great. I have a

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Speaker 1: goal of creating a national archive of hunters stories, and

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Speaker 1: my first stop is the Southeast because I know you

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Speaker 1: all down there. It can spend a good story. This

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Speaker 1: is our oral history. I believe there's immense historical value

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Speaker 1: to these stories and they should be preserved for future generations.

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Speaker 1: Don't let your grandpa's stories die with him. Bring him

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Speaker 1: to the convention and have him spin a yarn for me.

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Speaker 1: The stories can be funny, sad, educational, exciting, but most importantly,

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Speaker 1: they have to be engaging. This is where the good

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Speaker 1: storyteller part comes in. All storytellers will get twenty minutes

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Speaker 1: to tell their story, and I will be on hand

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Speaker 1: to ask questions to fill in the blanks. We'll be

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Speaker 1: recording at Ryman's studio SEE from nine am to four

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Speaker 1: pm Thursday, Friday, and Saturday of the convention, which is

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Speaker 1: February sevent and eighteen. There will be posters directing you

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Speaker 1: to our location to sign up for a time slot.

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Speaker 1: Ahead of time, go to the meat eater dot com

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Speaker 1: and search Turkey Story sign Up. We will also have

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Speaker 1: sign up available on location at the door of Ryman

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Speaker 1: Studio See. Met Eater will use these stories in a

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Speaker 1: forthcoming audio project, most likely in podcast format, so they

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Speaker 1: will be available to everyone as long as the Internet

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Speaker 1: is alive. So please come to Nashville for the National

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Speaker 1: Wild Turkey Federation Convention and bring me the best turkey

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Speaker 1: storyteller you know, are hunting legacy depends on it, all right, everybody.

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Speaker 1: We're joined by a mercer, Lolling, who Karin described at

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Speaker 1: Krin who's not here, described him as the last trapper

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Speaker 1: in California. It maybe Bobcat expert, uh former not even

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Speaker 1: former Bobcat like Bobcat for harvester turned uh continue to

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Speaker 1: do that, but also uh got involved in the research

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Speaker 1: world of applying his skills that being able to catch

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Speaker 1: animals that no one else can catch. Yeah, for sure,

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Speaker 1: it's uh been a fund several years. Have been doing

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Speaker 1: it for three years on the project in Arizona now.

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Speaker 1: And uh, you know, with the cage business, I end up,

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Speaker 1: uh you know, I end up selling cage traps for

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Speaker 1: research work for you know, all over the country really

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Speaker 1: almost pretty much every state that's doing a population study

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Speaker 1: or or anything. With the bobcats. They're not too many

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Speaker 1: of them that doesn't end up using, you know, my equipment,

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Speaker 1: and so I get feedback from them. And I've been

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Speaker 1: on a few different studies and and I was just

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Speaker 1: telling you this morning, I was telling links researcher that

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Speaker 1: she's gonna need to can act with you. Yeah, that's great.

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Speaker 1: They usually end up finding me. Um, the research community,

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Speaker 1: you know, there a lot of them. You know, they're

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Speaker 1: all pretty well connected, so a lot of them people

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Speaker 1: end up usually finding me. Another thing we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: into is the days in time you spent around California's

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Speaker 1: Bobcat Band where you you uh told me some stories

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Speaker 1: about that. Yeah. Boy, that's that's a few years of

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Speaker 1: my life. I don't ever want to relive into that

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Speaker 1: whole story. Um. Oh, you know the thing we got

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Speaker 1: to talk about, Phil, What uh you toured a new

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Speaker 1: one in that play? You tore that play a new one?

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Speaker 1: Appreciate Did you guys go see Phil? I did? I

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Speaker 1: did not? Sorry, Phil, I got a couple of feedback

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Speaker 1: points for you. Oh let me hear it. Um, I

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Speaker 1: thought you did a phenomenal job. Is this one of

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Speaker 1: your famous compliment sandwiches? No, it's an insult sandwich. Great well,

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Speaker 1: I got a question where I have two compliments, two

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Speaker 1: compliments with insult in the middle. Before he gets into that,

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Speaker 1: I got a question technical question. Are you guys amplified

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Speaker 1: at all your voices or they're wearing. They're wearing Garth

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Speaker 1: Brook's head pieces. You didn't notice, that's right. I was

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Speaker 1: sitting in the cheap seats, Steve so No, I was

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Speaker 1: too far away to see their uh little microphones. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've got a little bit of juice coming through the speakers.

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Speaker 1: Had great seats. Middle Phil literally brought the roof down.

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Speaker 1: Are you were of this hunk of roof? Like? It

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Speaker 1: got to halftime in uh, which my kids are very anxious.

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Speaker 1: They're told they could get a candy cane at halftime.

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Speaker 1: So it got to halftime, the curtain comes down. A

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Speaker 1: dude that's been sitting there for how long stands up

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Speaker 1: and a hunk of the roof comes down and lands

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Speaker 1: on his seat. Yeah, some of the some of them

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Speaker 1: molding on the ceiling fell during intermation. They'll brought the

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Speaker 1: roof down. They had to tape off like five rows

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Speaker 1: and move These people crazy to have the halftime. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you get hurt. I don't think so. If you were

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Speaker 1: listening careful, you'd have heard he got up, he got

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Speaker 1: up and fell on the seat. He got up at

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Speaker 1: halftime and it fell on his seat. Oh, I didn't

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Speaker 1: catch a part that he got up. First, Oh, great job, Phil.

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Speaker 1: And the second part, um, I felt that the the

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Speaker 1: gentleman playing Scrooge wasn't sufficiently surprised at the arrival of

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Speaker 1: the ghosts. Okay, yeah, it's a it's a I see

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Speaker 1: where that's coming. Very surprising. Sure, yeah, I think he

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Speaker 1: was playing it a little, a little loose and more

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Speaker 1: on the the humorous side than kind of seriously definitely scared. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know it is it is a complement sandwich, because

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Speaker 1: it's in fact, it's two criticisms. Okay, that's um, you

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Speaker 1: did a phenomenal job. Thank you. I felt that he

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Speaker 1: wasn't sufficiently surprised by the arrival of ghosts, which would listen,

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Speaker 1: I imagine quite a response. Um. The second thing is,

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Speaker 1: and this is this is from a colleague of ours, Maggie.

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Speaker 1: She likes a good spooky, She likes a spooky rendition

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Speaker 1: of Oh yes, this this was not Yeah, it's a comedic.

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Speaker 1: It was comedic. The only spooky part I'd say is

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Speaker 1: the Christmas Christmas future gets a little spooky, but everything

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Speaker 1: else is very it's it's it's a light touch for sure. Yeah, comedic. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's and that's kind of the first time I've

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Speaker 1: done a version of it that's a little bit on

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Speaker 1: the lighter side. You enjoyed it. I thought it was

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Speaker 1: good for the kids. Kist it. They kept they kept

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Speaker 1: their attention a little more I think than the than

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Speaker 1: the spookier version. You know how Scrooge is, uh like

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Speaker 1: he's looking in he's looking in at that and with

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Speaker 1: the Christmas present, he's kind of like looking in on

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Speaker 1: that party and her dogging on him at the party. Well,

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Speaker 1: towards the end, my daughter whispered to me, if he

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Speaker 1: fixes everything, well they still say the mean things about

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Speaker 1: him at the party. It's insightful. Yeah, that's smart. Uh,

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Speaker 1: well I had one more so that was kind of

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Speaker 1: like a neither a compliment criticism, Yeah, observation. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: about it. Great. Well, thanks so much for coming and

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Speaker 1: I really did not Yeah, we really enjoyed it. Phil,

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Speaker 1: Is your theater career just a Christmas thing? Are you

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Speaker 1: gonna do like shows throughout the year? I did Sound

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Speaker 1: of Music during the summer, and then they asked me

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Speaker 1: to do this And now I think I'm gonna take

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Speaker 1: a long break because I am I'm tired, and the

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Speaker 1: family is tired. It's a lot of rehearsals, but I'm

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Speaker 1: I'll probably do it again. I like it a lot.

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Speaker 1: It's fun. I have ever told you I think is

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Speaker 1: the worst, Like the absolute worst rendition of Christmas Carol

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Speaker 1: is the Muppet one. Yeah, yeah, where Michael Caine to this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah Yeah, he's looks like he's yeah, he's not acting,

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Speaker 1: he's just kind of cur He's seems surprised that he's

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Speaker 1: surrounded by puppet. The puppet started to sing and he

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Speaker 1: he just zones out. It's like he's say it about

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Speaker 1: shitty needs to do after work. So horrible. I think

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Speaker 1: there's some some moving moments in that movie. But I see,

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Speaker 1: yeah there, Yeah, I see where you're coming from. Here's

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Speaker 1: something crazy, man, check this out. I got a lot

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Speaker 1: of I got a lot of opinions about this, a

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Speaker 1: lot of things to say about this. So there's a

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Speaker 1: paper just came out, um a DNA some DNA work

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Speaker 1: being done on black bears. They've identified a mutation. So

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Speaker 1: they've identified a genetic mutation in black bears. You're following this,

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Speaker 1: JOHNI I hope you're doing a better job than the

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Speaker 1: roof Fallen down story and following us something about black bears. Okay,

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Speaker 1: something about grizzlies. So they've identified a mutation known as

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Speaker 1: our one five three C in a gene called tyro

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Speaker 1: snis related protein one which causes an alteration in the

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Speaker 1: coats pigmentation that makes it for the same color as

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Speaker 1: a copper penny. Well, they're talking about when people talk

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Speaker 1: about getting a cinnamon bear, a genetic mutation. They they've

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Speaker 1: isolated what it is that creates the cinnamon variant of

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Speaker 1: black bears, and interestingly, they've figured out when it came

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Speaker 1: into being. Uh, I'll put it this way. I'll put

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Speaker 1: it two ways. One way I'll put it is that

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Speaker 1: the Clovis hunters probably we're not seeing cinnamon bears because

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Speaker 1: this mutation seems to have emerged around nine thousand, three

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Speaker 1: hundred sixty years ago. Here's what I'm gonna take a

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Speaker 1: pause in this this paper, and it's it's it's spreading. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's spreading. Um. They feel that that the range and

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Speaker 1: distribution of cinnamon bears is growing, and it seems to

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Speaker 1: have a risen in the Southwest. But I'll point this

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Speaker 1: out one time. Uh, if you look at the prevalence

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Speaker 1: of color phase black bears on a map overlaid with precipitation.

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Speaker 1: You follow the film, Yeah, take a color coded map

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Speaker 1: that shows precipitation levels in North America, and then you

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Speaker 1: take a map that shows prevalence of color face bears.

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Speaker 1: There is an uh astonishing correlation. Now point out the

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Speaker 1: people that correlation is not causation, but wet ass areas,

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Speaker 1: the wetter, higher precipitation areas tend to have more black

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Speaker 1: facebook tend to not have colored face bears. And one

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Speaker 1: way you can look at me, like, there's stick vegetation,

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Speaker 1: lots of shadows. They blend in thermal regulation stuff, right,

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Speaker 1: meaning how you're for in the sun, cooperate and behave, um,

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Speaker 1: the same reason in the North you run black angus cattle.

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Speaker 1: In the South, you know where you're trying to keep

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Speaker 1: them warm. In the South and the you know, in

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Speaker 1: the extreme environments, they don't run black cattle. They run

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Speaker 1: cream cattle and red cattle and stuff that don't get

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Speaker 1: as much solar radiation on that that keeps them warm.

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Speaker 1: So I always say, oh, there are different colors down

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Speaker 1: in the Southwest because um, different camouflaging requirements and also

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Speaker 1: perhaps it's just not hot hotter and balls running out

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Speaker 1: with black hair. It makes sense. No, And I don't

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Speaker 1: even know if this this undoes that they Here's a

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Speaker 1: quote from the paper geography definitely plays apart. Our demographic

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Speaker 1: modeling identified that the most likely place where the mutation

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Speaker 1: arose was somewhere in the western region, very likely the southwest.

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Speaker 1: From there it expanded through gene flow through populations, but

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Speaker 1: even in that slow process. But even that is a

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Speaker 1: slow process. With the majority of black bears on the

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Speaker 1: east coast still sporting jet black furt and they're looking

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Speaker 1: at the Great Plains as being a barrier to this

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Speaker 1: gene mutation spreading eastward. M uh albion is um. One

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Speaker 1: thing that happens albino animals is they go blind and

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Speaker 1: die early like they do don't live that long. Um.

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Speaker 1: But this mutation doesn't seem to show any signs of

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Speaker 1: visual problems like all that. We're talking to a board, uh,

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Speaker 1: drying and stretching board. No, like a like an old

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Speaker 1: board of microbiologist wrote in this is this is good

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Speaker 1: stuff to know, microbiologist wrote in and he had some

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Speaker 1: things to say about our conversation. We're talking about the

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Speaker 1: etiquette of the etiquette and safety of pooping on the ice.

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Speaker 1: I've just been saving up all my things to say

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Speaker 1: for this. I don't Okay, now I've pointed out I've

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Speaker 1: never done this, but I was putting the question like

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Speaker 1: if people are talking about just sinking one okay, going

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Speaker 1: into the hole and then using your scoop or whatever

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Speaker 1: to try to sinker down, sink the cake, like, try

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Speaker 1: to sink her down and then get her out of

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Speaker 1: the way so that it's just floating up at the

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Speaker 1: surface of the lake eventually probably sink and then just

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Speaker 1: you know, you've got it taken care of in that

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Speaker 1: people wouldn't know you did it, or you can lay

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Speaker 1: her right on the ice, which is unsightly. And I

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Speaker 1: was talking about what if you took your auger and

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Speaker 1: drilled a half hole so you got let's say you

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Speaker 1: have twelve inches of ice. You take your auger and

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Speaker 1: you go down eight inches, so you got a four

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Speaker 1: inch buffer. Scoop that ice, slush out, go defecate, put

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Speaker 1: that slush and snow back in and and and put

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Speaker 1: it in a little vault. And I was talking about what, uh,

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Speaker 1: maybe that maybe over there and that stream environment, the

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Speaker 1: microbes and the nasty things that would get into the water,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't would would die, probably not put anyways, A microbiologist

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Speaker 1: wrote in. He says, I've decided to write in to

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Speaker 1: correct you on your assumption that the microbes in your

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Speaker 1: poo pile would be killed by making it into a

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Speaker 1: ship slushy using a partially dug ice fishing hole and actuality.

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Speaker 1: Your fecal matters snow cone, which is packed with bacteria

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Speaker 1: and other microbes, would simply refrigerate, freeze and probably preserve

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Speaker 1: the micro organisms and still spring. Microbes tend to go

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Speaker 1: into a dormant stage sporulation during extreme conditions and are

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Speaker 1: quite hardy in the environment. Much of the bacteria in

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Speaker 1: feces is E. Coli, most of which is harmless, but

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Speaker 1: some strains can cause nasty spray able dia aurehea. Specifically,

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Speaker 1: he names one spray. Yeah, I'm just picturing it in

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Speaker 1: a cane by There are other microbes and feces that

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Speaker 1: can cause disease, but I think I have something more

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Speaker 1: interesting for you. A condition known as c DIF caused

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Speaker 1: by close Stridium diffcial can be fatal. Oh listen to this.

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Speaker 1: He's knocking you down, and now he's gonna bring you

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Speaker 1: back up. Listen to this. Well, no, because listen, this

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Speaker 1: is fascinating. A condition is known as c DIF. That's

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Speaker 1: a abbreviation, caused by close stridium diffcial. Can be fatal,

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Speaker 1: but my emphasis on. But but it can be readily

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Speaker 1: cured by ingesting the feces of a healthy person as

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Speaker 1: an inoculation. That's no. I like that trip to the

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Speaker 1: doctor where they're like, hey, eat this. Maybe maybe you

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Speaker 1: can get it in pill form. Then he goes on

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Speaker 1: to make a joke, and he wrote back to clarify

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Speaker 1: he felt bad after making the joke. He said, you

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Speaker 1: could you can almost justify pooping into ice fishing holes

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Speaker 1: as a means of inoculating the swimming population for C. DIF,

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Speaker 1: which is far more dangerous than ni cole i. But

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Speaker 1: a day later an email comes in, Hey, that was

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Speaker 1: a joke. Please don't that was a joke. I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure if you'd understood it was a joke. That was

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Speaker 1: a joke, and don't do that. So still, the best

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Speaker 1: practice would be to bring a bucket. It's line with

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Speaker 1: the plastic bag and pooping there. Collar. Yeah, the blue

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Speaker 1: collar scholar sent me an amazing design we were talking

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Speaker 1: about buying. I don't know who that is. Oh, Tommy

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Speaker 1: had the guy. He's got an Instagram page now called

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Speaker 1: the blue Collar Scholar because he does so good at

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Speaker 1: the trivia show. He plays the trivia show and does

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Speaker 1: he claims he does well, he was on the show

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Speaker 1: and didn't. He sends, no, he bombed here. But but

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Speaker 1: that's I think there's a lot of people who think

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Speaker 1: they do great at home, but they bombed, they would

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Speaker 1: bomb and really it's they're like they're kind of like

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Speaker 1: I think they're like, oh, I kind of had that,

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Speaker 1: Like well that was my first guess you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, not like no one's really putting the screws

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Speaker 1: to him to like actually you know, I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: in their head. It's in their head. So he's like, god,

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Speaker 1: you know, I guess be Illinois, maybe Indiana. Yeah, in Indiana.

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Speaker 1: Then they're like, Illinois, I knew it. Like a lot

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Speaker 1: of that goes definitely. Um so we buy, like you

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Speaker 1: can buy these things. You you go to any like,

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Speaker 1: you go to sports his warehouse wherever the hell, and

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Speaker 1: you buy it's like a light gauge five gallon pail

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Speaker 1: with a snap on the seats, compatible with any five

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Speaker 1: gallon bucket. It's a flip top toilet seat. And you

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Speaker 1: can get those bags that have that I don't know

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Speaker 1: what the hell it is older killer in it, and

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Speaker 1: you drop one in there and then you it's like

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Speaker 1: a big heavy duty zip block with a trash bag

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Speaker 1: joined to it. So you go into the trash bag,

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Speaker 1: close the trash bag up. It goes into the ziplock

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Speaker 1: ziplock it shake it to get the crystal stuff if

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Speaker 1: you if you so please, and then it's pretty much archival.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's like one of those diaper genies. You know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but then you get you know, you get back to

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Speaker 1: the you get back to the boat launch or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and and you got one of those bags. Anyways, Tommy

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Speaker 1: sends me a thing. He's like, you don't need and

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Speaker 1: these things are not expensive. But time he's like, you

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Speaker 1: don't need to buy one of them expensive ass buckets.

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Speaker 1: They he's got a bucket. It's fixture. You got a

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Speaker 1: five gallon bucket laying there, put a garbage bag and

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Speaker 1: hanging over the edge like a trash can, and then

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Speaker 1: take a pool noodle and just cut an incision down

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Speaker 1: the length of the pool noodle, so you now have

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Speaker 1: a piece of pipe inslation, or take a piece of

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Speaker 1: pipe inslation it's pre cut mm hmm, and you make

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Speaker 1: a little rim, a little sitting room. I was wondering

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Speaker 1: where this was gonna make a little sitting with that

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Speaker 1: pipe inslave. I've seen this before. Yeah, when I was

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Speaker 1: in the in the landscaping industry, you'd have to get uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, you'd have to put some thought into how

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Speaker 1: you were going some days, and a lot of guys

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Speaker 1: carried like a bucket with a pool noodle. You didn't

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Speaker 1: want to vault it in their landscaping. Well, you're all,

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Speaker 1: you're like working in someone's front yard. You can't just

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Speaker 1: can't just jump in the bushes. But if you're gonna

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Speaker 1: land some side down, who's gonna know? Well, just late

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Speaker 1: the just everybody walking by, the lady watching you out

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Speaker 1: of the out of her front window is gonna know.

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Speaker 1: That's a good point. You're caring. But yeah, I knew

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Speaker 1: of guys that carried around a five beyond bucket head

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Speaker 1: that pool noodle pool noodle. I feel like a sucker

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Speaker 1: for buying that thing. I bought now, man, how how

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Speaker 1: so in that when you were in the landscaping business,

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Speaker 1: how where were they deployed, said Bucket, Well, you'd either

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Speaker 1: deploy in the enclosed trailer or in the back of

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Speaker 1: the dump like we had all we all had dump

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Speaker 1: trucks and you you just get in the back of

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Speaker 1: the dump truck. Yeah, but yeah, would you put us?

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Speaker 1: How would people know you're in there? You just tell

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Speaker 1: your crew that don't throw any biggs in there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna take care of somewhere. Or you'd go right

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Speaker 1: into the tool crib, in the in the yeah, in

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Speaker 1: the in the trailer. Yeah, guy wrote in this is

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Speaker 1: pretty good. This makes me jealous. This pass is the

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Speaker 1: jealousy test. So was it? Uh? Why was it that

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Speaker 1: Trump didn't Why did he not fight in Vietnam? Was

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Speaker 1: a b spurs? This guy? That's what I thought. So

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Speaker 1: he this guy had bone spurs. He got him cut

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Speaker 1: out and then send us pictures. He had his wife

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Speaker 1: earrings made out of his bones spurs. M He made

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Speaker 1: the ear rings with his daughter. His daughter had an earring,

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Speaker 1: had a jewelry kit, and he made a little box.

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Speaker 1: He says, a piece of me for you, and it's

359
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Speaker 1: these crazy little bone spur earrings made out of the

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Speaker 1: bones spurs cut out of his feet. Man, I wish

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Speaker 1: I hadn't known about that. I had bones spur surgery

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Speaker 1: a year ago, did you. Yeah, I could have had

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Speaker 1: something to remember it by besides just paint with every

364
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Speaker 1: step I take. Still a year later, really, oh god,

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Speaker 1: what'd you do with your spurs? Apparently they just ground him.

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize they take him off in one piece. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he got his back. He had to clean him a

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Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah, he asked for him. Everybody that writes

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Speaker 1: in this is a common thing on this show. Everybody

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Speaker 1: that writes in, we'll say like, I want my stuff back,

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Speaker 1: and they kind of like they it's like your property.

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Speaker 1: They can't not give it to you. I never even

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Speaker 1: thought of that. He's the thing. This fellow says that

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Speaker 1: his wife says it's the greatest present she's ever received.

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Speaker 1: M I like her, man, I'll let marry her. She'd

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Speaker 1: probably like some turkey spur hearings. Mm hmmm. Uh. Here's

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00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 1: the trick. Here's the tricky one for me. Oh, Yanni,

378
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Speaker 1: did you have something to add about the ice stuff

379
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 1: you're saying you're saving up for that? Oh? No, no,

380
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,959
Speaker 1: I found it fascinating. The guy wrote in about here

381
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Speaker 1: This is a crazy story that came in recently, and

382
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 1: I called. I was like skeptical, were you are you

383
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: guys here for this? No? Okay, guy like he ran

384
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: out of gas and he had a gas can, but

385
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 1: his gas can nozzle wasn't compatible with the port on

386
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: his truck. You know they are now, Like, dude, Now

387
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 1: vehicles come with special funnel adapters to get through the

388
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: security stuff that people can't sipen your gas off. Anyways,

389
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Speaker 1: he jams an arrow down in there, takes an arrow

390
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 1: out of his quiver, jams it down there to hold

391
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 1: the spring flap, and then he's like basically pouring gas

392
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: out of a can in the dark, down the arrow

393
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Speaker 1: into the gas can and winds up jabbing his face,

394
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: jabbing his eye on the knock on the end of

395
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Speaker 1: the arrow, impales his face on the end of the arrow,

396
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Speaker 1: goes on to have all these future problems, never realizing

397
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 1: that the knock came off in his eye and eventually

398
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 1: hocks up a lugi. It's like a year and a

399
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 1: half later. Yeah, that was him spitting out hacks out

400
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: the knock. So as he gets up in his sis,

401
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: I said, I don't know if I'm buying that. I said,

402
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: I didn't believe it, but then I was kind of

403
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: change my mind about it. Dr Alan Lazarre wrote in

404
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: he buys a only reason it's not a hunter. He

405
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: doesn't know the guy personally. Wow, the aero knock entered

406
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: his f Moyd Sinus goes on to say that I

407
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: rest in a bony box. I eat orbit with thin

408
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: bones making up the walls the airfield spaces of the

409
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 1: anterior face a k a. The sinus is lying close

410
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: proximity to your orbit. These sinuses, as well as the

411
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: NATO crimal duct. That's right, folks, you have one nasal,

412
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: the crimal duct all have dropped. This makes me feel

413
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: like I gotta hok up howk up a knock? I

414
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: got a pellet B B or something. Uh. These sinuses,

415
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,959
Speaker 1: as well as the nasal La crime will duct, all

416
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 1: have drainage into the nasal cavity, which is anatomically complex.

417
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 1: In particular, the f void sinus lies medial i E

418
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: midline to the orbit and drains into the paranasal sinuses,

419
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: which in turn empty into the nasal cavity through the

420
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Speaker 1: three conca That's a word. It's pretty incredible. I mean

421
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Speaker 1: the body does wild force things out of itself. YEA

422
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 1: surprised when I'm done. Who The nasal cavity and passage

423
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: are connected to the oral fair and nagil space in

424
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: the back of the throat. That's how Lucy's happened. Now

425
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: onto the arrow. I'm not sure what kind of size

426
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: knocked at him. It was used, and says the doctor,

427
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: Or if just a piece of the knock entered his

428
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: medial para orbital space and the rest fell on the ground.

429
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 1: Either way, most common size knocks are sharp, narrow, and

430
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: small enough to penetrate that space and the f moid sinus.

431
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 1: I believe the knock penetrated his f moyd sinus. The

432
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: immune system reacted and covered the thing in white blood cells.

433
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: Over time, it eroded under the guise of perceived repeat

434
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 1: sinus infections and made its way into the nasal passage.

435
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: And then he hocked a colorful lugi wow instead of Actually,

436
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: they should have given him a maximo facial CT. But

437
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: he doesn't want a dog on the facility because he's

438
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: not sure what kind of equipment they had. Jeez, what

439
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: a story. Now, what do you think about that? Phil?

440
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 1: I'd like to formally apologize to the gentleman. I wonder

441
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: what his eynes would have looked like in if it

442
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: would have been one of those like glow in the

443
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: dark Knox or something, maybe look like a terminator or something.

444
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 1: I can't I just can't imagine going on that long

445
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: not knowing that something. So he he was having sinus

446
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: infections for about a year and they still couldn't figure

447
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: it out. Though. Let's say you let me walk you

448
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: through this. Okay, you're drive down the road. You run

449
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: out of gas that night coming home from hunting. I

450
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 1: can picture this. Okay, you can't get the gas down,

451
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: you put the you put an arrow down there. You're

452
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: pouring gas and Nelson, you impale your face on the arrow.

453
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 1: You're running around. Oh my god, right, scruciating pain. Later,

454
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: I don't know you have an arrow on the knox missing.

455
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: Are you gonna think like I wonder if that knock

456
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: is in my head or if you think like in

457
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: all the excitement, the knock fell off. Yeah, but I

458
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: think with Seth is saying that he just can't believe

459
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: that there'd be a knock stuck in there and you

460
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't say, my goodness, there's a chunk, a foreign chunk

461
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: of plastic by my head. Yeah. You remember that dude

462
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: that got shot by a nail gun and carried the

463
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: nail around until they found it in there. Yeah, I

464
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: guess this probably happens more often. What we thought you

465
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: also says is that the dude is tough as nails,

466
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: and I think that that probably points to out some

467
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: people just don't have a way different pain threshold, and

468
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: something something like a nail or a knot could be

469
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: inside their body and they're kind of like, I'll keep

470
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,719
Speaker 1: about my day. That's just it's a little tickle. If

471
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: he's Yeah, if he was feeling any sort of pressure

472
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: back there, he was probably like, Oh, it's just the

473
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: wound healing. It's some sort of scar I had. Yeah.

474
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: I don't like any kind of injury. Man. I feel

475
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: like I would have gotten all those kind of exams.

476
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: I'm hard to worry about being out of commission. Um,

477
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: check this out. This is good. You're hanging in there. Yeah.

478
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: That story was just reminded me when I was a

479
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: kid out of Mexican jumping being up my notes for

480
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: about a year. No, stuck it up there. I must have, man,

481
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: I don't know I went to the hospital a bunch

482
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: of times, bloody noses, and eventually big old sneeze had

483
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: come out. It's a story my mom tells me. Anyway,

484
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: I'll buy it. She otherwise your otherwise honest. Yeah, Yeah,

485
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,239
Speaker 1: she's a good guy. Yeah. Do you remember we got

486
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 1: that fourteen year old Saint Hill crane? Sure? Do? Minimum

487
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,959
Speaker 1: of fourteen years. We got a Sandhill crane and Texas

488
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: Panhandle that had been banded. So we're in the Texas Panhandle.

489
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: It had been banded as an adult fourteen years earlier

490
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: in Fairbanks, Alaska, at least fourteen. Well, some mug in Tennessee.

491
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: That was cool. That was banded in Fairbanks. And uh,

492
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: I'll never forget either. How you and Ronny Bayim and

493
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,959
Speaker 1: Ed Arnett, three grown men sat there and argued who

494
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: shot it, to the point that we had to get

495
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: one band recognition form with three names on it. Yeah.

496
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: I need to find my form. There's a quote I like, Uh,

497
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: success has many fathers, but failure is a bastards child.

498
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: M that's a good one. Uh. This guy has got

499
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: one banded in nine nine. He just killed in Tennessee. Yeah,

500
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: that's only eleven years younger than me. He got it

501
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: on public land. There's a refuge and then there's some

502
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: crop fields and outfitters leased to crop fields, and they

503
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: got it on a little public wedge between the refuge

504
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: and the crop fields. I can't even do the math.

505
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: What do you mean before you you're not you're older

506
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: than thirty three, I'm saying. I was saying the birds

507
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,479
Speaker 1: only eleven years younger than me. I'm sorry, thirty three

508
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: year old sand hill crane. We got more than how

509
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: many spreads? Is that thing? Seeing man spreads and coyotes?

510
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: And what I was thinking about is there's not Is

511
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: there anything else that we hunt that even gets close

512
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: to living that long? Well? Bears get twenty years, you know,

513
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: m Yeah, that's only I can't. There can't if it

514
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: isn't some kind of water fowl or like like gators

515
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: or something Florida like that. I bet there's some old

516
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: as gators snapping turtles. I've been wanting to get like

517
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: a really really good alligator expert on the show, Like

518
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: a really good alligator expert. Yeah, I think Parker could

519
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: find that for since he's down there and that you're

520
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: extremely good. Send it an email to us that says

521
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: the subject line would be extremely good alligator expert and

522
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: then we'll know in crinical call you. Uh, this is funny.

523
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: This is from when there was a bobcat on the

524
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: Loose and Long Island. And of all, okay, let's say

525
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: you heard they're they're very they're nervous about the bobcat

526
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: being on on the Loose and Long Island and none

527
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: other and Martha Stewart has a none other than Martha

528
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: Stewart has a think about how to save yourself in

529
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: the event you were encountered this bobcat, which they're frantically

530
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: trying to find. Oh, it's just like an article on

531
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: the Wild magazine. Or the more distance between you and

532
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: the cat, the better, reads the website. Bobcats in particular

533
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: usually do not attack humans. However, if one does attack you,

534
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: your best chance of survival is to defend yourself and

535
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: call for emergency medical care, as the animal may have rabies.

536
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: Thanks Martha, the more distance between you, the better. Great.

537
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: The first person to saw it was convinced. They were

538
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: looking at the links. It was huge and look very exotic. Wow,

539
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: what else that's about it? That's about it. There's a

540
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: lot of questions about that one, like where it came from,

541
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: how it got there. It's good stuff, all right, Mercy

542
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 1: Ready to dig in, man, Yeah, sure, let's go. How

543
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: First off, why did you stay? Why are you still

544
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: in California? Right? If your whole life has been trapping

545
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: in bobcat work and then California out right flat out

546
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: you know, let me let me digress from it. Anyone

547
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: who doesn't believe in the slippery slope, uh, needs to

548
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: believe in the slippery slope. Oh, no doubt. Um, if

549
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: you look at like nine you know, in the early nineties,

550
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 1: they took away steel jaw traps, made us use rubber

551
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: paddy jaws, and then in that took away foothold traps altogether.

552
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: And then uh, I think it was two thousand the

553
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: dust up over the cage trapping incident that that got

554
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 1: the band started in the legislative action, uh, you know,

555
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: was the next nail in the coffin, And they end

556
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: up banning bobcat trapping all together, you know, even with

557
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: cage traps. And then just a couple of years after that,

558
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: then they went after trapping all together, you know, and

559
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: then they said, you know, if you read the legislation.

560
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 1: It was like, you know, well there's barely any trappers anyways,

561
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, their their numbers don't justify you know,

562
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: what it costs the department, you know, maintain you know,

563
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: a trapping season, and these animals have you know, more

564
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: value to the public as you know, viewable nature, you know. Um,

565
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: And so then they got trapping completely and at the

566
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: same time, uh, they went after bobcat hunting, which was

567
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 1: all that was left. And we could still hunt bobcats

568
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: right up until I think it was December thirty one.

569
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 1: I wanted to be one of the last people to

570
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: ever hunt a California bobcat legally because the legislation they

571
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: passed required a five year population study to be done

572
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: in the state and starting January one, two thousand nineteen,

573
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 1: I believe it was. Uh, they I'm just supposed to

574
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: start that five year study to justify you know, the

575
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,919
Speaker 1: harvest of bobcats. Right and once once they take something away,

576
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: they never give it back. So we're in the five

577
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,439
Speaker 1: year study right now, we're into five years. Yeah, what's

578
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 1: gonna happen during the five year study? Oh and we're

579
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: you the last guy to get one, you know, I

580
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 1: might have been. I went out, I shot one about

581
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: ten thirty at night. Um, you know who knows. I

582
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: don't know. You probably were, I might have been. Um.

583
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: And then and then if not, send an email that

584
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 1: says Mercer is wrong. And then and then uh yeah,

585
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: So they're supposedly doing some sort of camera trap work

586
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: statewide and they end up they bought some cage traps

587
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,240
Speaker 1: for me as well. I drove him up to Sacramento,

588
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: dropped off and I know the dude, the dude that

589
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: I dropped him off with it, he was like a

590
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: fisheries guy, and he was going to be in charge

591
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 1: of the population study. I didn't leave there with a

592
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: whole lot of faith. You're not going to get it back.

593
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: You'll never get it back, even you know if they

594
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: come back and say, oh, yeah, you know there, because

595
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 1: they estimate to repulation of California between seventy and a

596
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: hundred thousand bobcats, right, And so when you tell them that,

597
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 1: you know, all through all through all those legislative actions,

598
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: they you know, when you tell them that, you know,

599
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: we're harvesting like anywhere from three hundred bobcats a year

600
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: right in the entire state, right, you know, back back

601
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: during the fur boom, you know, the highest years were

602
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: around eight thousand bobcats, but on average or so during

603
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 1: the fur boom years and then what fur boom are

604
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: you talking about? You know, the mid seventies to boom

605
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 1: capital F and B Yeah, yeah, uh and then all

606
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 1: through the nineties and that you know, the harvest was

607
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: to three bobcats and so out of estimated population of

608
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 1: a hundred dollars. Yeah, if you look if you go

609
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: all of US undred thousands of what game official saying now,

610
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: but if you look back when all the states had

611
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: to come up with an estimated population for their state

612
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: for the SITIS, when when bobcats got listed on sites,

613
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: all the states had to come up with some estimated

614
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: number either just using habitat you know, modeling and stuff

615
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: like that. I think the number at that time was

616
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 1: like seventy eight thousand or something like that for California. UM.

617
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: And so, just so people are I'm gonna explain to

618
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 1: you things. Side is like an international like it's an

619
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: international wildlife regulatory thing which monitors moving moving wildlife species

620
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: from one country to the next. There's a treaty the

621
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: site he's treaty. So, for instance, if you go down

622
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: and hunt which me and you always get screwed on.

623
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: If you were to go down and hunt oscillated turkeys

624
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: in Mexico and you went to bring parts of that

625
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: turkey back home with you, you would need to do

626
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: the site. He's work, Phil What in Sam Hill? Is

627
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: that behind you? What? Oh? I have no idea. It

628
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: was in the podcast studio. It was on the table

629
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: here and it's just getting in our way. So we

630
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 1: said it over there on the desk. It's it's a oh,

631
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: never mind, that's cool. Oh no, I do need to

632
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: see that. Where was that right? And what is that?

633
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: Obsidian or or glass? Looks like obsidian? Give that to me,

634
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: although it looks we're looking at an arrow for the

635
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,280
Speaker 1: people listening, Well, I'm waiting on my clothes thrusting spear.

636
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 1: Where was I talking about? Sides? Oh it's glass? Uh,

637
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: that's wrong. Then you had another Yeah. Modeling just so

638
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: just real quick snapshot how modeling works. Like let's say,

639
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: you know, let's say you wanted to count up deer

640
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,439
Speaker 1: in a county or a state or a country. Whatever,

641
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 1: you might go like, okay, and good habitat. So in

642
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: like usable habitat. We tend to see ten deer per

643
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 1: square mile, and you go like, well, how many square

644
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 1: miles of good suitable habitat do we have? Okay, well

645
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: times that by that And that's like in a very

646
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: like an actual modeler would be annoyed by my my

647
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: quick summation. But that's basically what that is, um when

648
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: you talk about modeling. So they're probably looking at some

649
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: like habitat density and space and you work it all

650
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: out and that's what you got. Yeah, for sure, it's

651
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 1: it's pretty Uh, it's pretty detailed. From visiting with biologists

652
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: toff like that. I mean they even got they've got

653
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 1: people with the job title called like a biometrician. Have

654
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: you ever heard one of those? Yeah, they they're like

655
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: a combination between a biologist and a mathematician statistician and

656
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 1: uh and they're the ones that that really get deep

657
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: into the numbers and they can take a small amount

658
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: of data and turn it into a lot of data.

659
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 1: So you were saying that California came in with a

660
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 1: prediction of seventy eight thousand bobcats and harvest was at

661
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: what So during the eighties, the average harvest, the fur boom.

662
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: Uh was somewhere in the forty neighborhood if you have

663
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: take about a dozen years there in a row high

664
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 1: of in the eight thousand's. You know, California was a

665
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: destination during those times. It was where a lot of

666
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: state hoppers ended their season. You know, they trapped the

667
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 1: colder country and end up in the you know basin

668
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: and range stuff of Never Nevada really, because I don't

669
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: think they've ever allowed nonresident Boba trap and I could

670
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: be wrong, but uh, you know, they'd work their way

671
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 1: through Arizona and finish up in the Majabi Desert to

672
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: California where I live. Huh yeah. Um. When you're talking

673
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: about it never coming back, the reason it will never

674
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 1: come back is because people will ally You'll always be

675
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: able to do the trick in litigation where people will

676
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: sue and they'll say, but you haven't accounted for now.

677
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 1: Now the magical thing is you haven't accounted for climate change. Well,

678
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: they'll move the goalpost, goalposts. Yeah, you'll never see it again.

679
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: The big argument, the thing they pushed all the times, Oh, well,

680
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: we know there's plenty of bobcats in California. We're not

681
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,839
Speaker 1: arguing that what we're arguing is that there's no way

682
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 1: to control all the trappers from working in one area

683
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: in depleting a resource. And yeah, yeah, and then of

684
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: course when you say all trappers, you're talking about a

685
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: total of anywhere from six bobcats during you know, the

686
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 1: what i'd call the cage trap days, right, So we

687
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: lost our foot traps and eight and by about two thousand,

688
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: two thousand two guys were experimenting with using cage traps

689
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: to catch bobcats um in Washington State, Arizona, Colorado. I

690
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: believe all three lost their footholds before us, so they

691
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 1: were already further down the road using cage traps for

692
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 1: bobcats than California was. That was kind of an amazing

693
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: era for it was sort of like in those early nineties,

694
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: that period, late eighties, early nineties, it was it's surprising

695
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 1: looking back how many hits hunters and trappers took in

696
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 1: those years. As I think it's like Peter was beginning

697
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 1: to take shape. It was kind of amazing that that

698
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 1: you'd think that like stuff like that happens now, But

699
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 1: people took a lot of hits, legislative hits back then. Yeah,

700
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: between ballot initiatives, which are just they're just they're just

701
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: the horrible thing, baland isshes and legislative actions to manage wildlife.

702
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: It's just, it's just horrible. The truth is the first

703
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: victim when you get into those situations, you know, the

704
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: truth doesn't matter. I want to go back to the

705
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: beginning with you. But why how would you not just

706
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, never mind, I'm leaving so uh so

707
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,240
Speaker 1: along the course of losing everything, right, losing the cage traps,

708
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 1: and the next thing we lost was the bobcat hunting

709
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: and the uh trapping completely and and then now I

710
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: believe it's January one, So in a week or two,

711
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:46,959
Speaker 1: the statewide ban on for the sale of any any

712
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 1: fur garments unless it's used old for any new fur

713
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 1: garments statewide, I believe goes into effect this January. And

714
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 1: so you were originally you were talking about you know,

715
00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:59,919
Speaker 1: I think you're you're saying death by a thousand cuts

716
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 1: type of thing. You know, Uh, slippery slope, slippery slope.

717
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's encouraging people to believe in slippery slopes.

718
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's when when you have a state like

719
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 1: California that's totally controlled by one party. Uh, you don't

720
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: have a chance, you know. Um, I saw some ugly

721
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: stuff when I was fighting the the first first Bobcat trapping. Yeah,

722
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: you became uh you were a public figure in that fight,

723
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: you know. Uh, I kind of got it from both

724
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: sides a little bit. I had. I had trappers that

725
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: didn't like me, wanted to blame me for for losing it,

726
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:35,359
Speaker 1: you know, because I was promoting Kate trapping and selling

727
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: Kate Trapping products and get people started. Um uh. And

728
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,879
Speaker 1: then of course I got it from the antis because

729
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 1: I was the only you know, I was the public

730
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: figure they couldn't. A trapper got into some trouble trapping around.

731
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: He was a marine that was stationed at a base

732
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 1: down there, and I sold him equipment and I got

733
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: him started, and he started trapping between home and work

734
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: and and what was in between there was Joshua Tree,

735
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 1: nashvill Monument, and which you know is surrounded by you

736
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 1: know a lot of people that don't they wouldn't agree

737
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 1: with the way we live our lives, you know. And uh,

738
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: he got a he got a trap found that was

739
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 1: on a piece of private property. Um that that you know,

740
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,919
Speaker 1: California laws, you gotta post your land or be told

741
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: to stay off, you know, so private property law. He

742
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 1: wasn't do anything wrong. No, it's just a piece of

743
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: it's just people open desert that happened to be private.

744
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:32,280
Speaker 1: Some guy found it, took it to the local newspaper office,

745
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 1: and a year later there's billboards up in California to

746
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: ban bobcat trapping. You know, it's something in the cage. No,

747
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: this is empty cage trap. But you know, at the

748
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: same time, we're, uh, we're you know, on the internet,

749
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: posted pictures and uh, Facebook and all that sort of

750
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 1: stuff and trapping forums. Ah that you know, Uh, I

751
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: guess the argument can be made, you know, don't do

752
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 1: that stuff. I guess that's what the guys that you know,

753
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 1: we're kind of blaming me for it all, you know, um,

754
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 1: for you know, making it public, you know. Uh And

755
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 1: because so, yeah, I was a public How much do

756
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: you how much do you buy that, um that it

757
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: would have continued if someone hadn't. No, so I don't

758
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: buy it at all that it would have continued, right,

759
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: And they're they're gonna get it no matter what. It

760
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 1: is just a matter of time. But ah, those actions

761
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: at that time you know, was the catalyst to what

762
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: ended up happening. But if it hadn't been that, it

763
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 1: would have been something else. And you wound up with

764
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: death threats through this whole thing, and you weren't getting

765
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,280
Speaker 1: that from the trappers. No. No, there was one particular

766
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 1: trapper that I was just a little bit fearful of.

767
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: But he had he had been in trouble many times

768
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: with game and fish. He woun't he wasn't a very

769
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: good dude. Uh. But yeah, yeah, I got a few

770
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 1: letters in the mailbox saying somebody's gonna come kill me.

771
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: I had. Uh, those those people down at Joshua Tree,

772
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: they're there. They were whack jobs, man, I mean they're

773
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 1: they're whack jobs. Uh, scary kind of like whack jobs,

774
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: like Manson type hippies. Just like some guy made a

775
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 1: compilation video and put on YouTube of my vehicles and

776
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: me and my kids, like pictures of us, you know,

777
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: and saying, hey, if you see this guy they were

778
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 1: I wasn't even the trapper that started all this. I

779
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: was just the guy that sold this other dude some

780
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 1: some traps. But somehow they you know, just picked me out.

781
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 1: And yeah, uh, I think I called the FBI at

782
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,720
Speaker 1: one point saying, hey, I'm getting these letters saying somebody's

783
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 1: gonna come kill me. And uh uh. They told me,

784
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 1: what does it say a specific time and place. I said, no,

785
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: it just says they're gonna come kill me. He said, well,

786
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: we can't do you know that about it. That's what

787
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 1: he told me. That's horship man, because I had to

788
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:47,759
Speaker 1: say I had a I called the FBI about a

789
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: guy one time. He didn't give a specific thing. He

790
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,399
Speaker 1: made him. He made a reference to my kids. They

791
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: went through the guy's garbage for a while, surveilled him.

792
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 1: This is he. The guy lived in Ohio, went through

793
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: his ash one day, called me to say he ordered

794
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: a pepperoni pizza. It's not vegetarian um, and eventually visit

795
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 1: him at work, stared the living ship out of him

796
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 1: to get some of that. I said, I won't be here,

797
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 1: and they said they came and said they won't. You

798
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 1: won't be hearing from him again. Yeah, I'd love to

799
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 1: get some of that kind of attention. Back then, they

800
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 1: took a real serious. It wasn't like, Hey, on Monday

801
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: at noon, I'm gonna kill you out in front of

802
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 1: your house. That's what they're saying you have to have Yeah,

803
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: that's what he said. Yeah, is a specific time in place,

804
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: Posting a bunch of videos about your cars and stuff

805
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 1: isn't sufficient. Yeah right. I don't believe that, man, I

806
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: mean not that I don't think you're lying. I think

807
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 1: someone blew you off. They probably hate Bobcat trappers. Yeah,

808
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: well it's it's pretty easy to find those type of

809
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 1: people in California. So but as far as what did

810
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 1: you want? But what did you wind up doing? Yeah,

811
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: we're gonna get the why you never moved. But when

812
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: you had these threats on you, what were you doing?

813
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't take them too terribly serious. I

814
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 1: did sit out in the bushes a few nights, you know,

815
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 1: um watching your house. Yeah. Yeah, uh, but it wasn't

816
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: it wasn't too awful bad. It was just it was

817
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 1: just an ugly time. Man. Those those people are ugly.

818
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 1: I mean they can they can hate Bobcat trapping all

819
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: they want, but man, they're just nasty people, not not

820
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: very good quality people. You know, you have a right,

821
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 1: all the right in the world to to not like

822
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 1: what I do. But don't go there. You know, I

823
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 1: tell my kids all the time. You know, you can

824
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 1: be frustrated, you can be angry, but you're not allowed

825
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 1: to be nasty. Yeah. Yeah. The moral high grounds sometimes though,

826
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: especially in politics, doesn't get you anywhere, right, So why

827
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 1: did you why why didn't you just be like, hey,

828
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 1: I'm out of here. Ah, shoot, you know, your home's

829
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 1: your home. Uh. I got all my family there, My

830
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 1: wife has all our family there. Now my daughter is

831
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: going to college in California, so uh yeah, I think

832
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 1: I'll be there at least three more years. I've been

833
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 1: all over the West. You know, I've been a lot

834
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: of cool places, like right here where you're at now. Um,

835
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:02,439
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just I never found a place

836
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 1: that I just was dying to go live. And you know,

837
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: I ended up in in the Majabi Desert back in

838
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 1: high school. And uh, you know, we didn't have rivers

839
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 1: and fishing, turkeys, no real good deer hunt and you know,

840
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 1: there's nothing. It was just cautin bobcat hunting. And so

841
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:27,359
Speaker 1: I've just pretty much spent the last almost forty years now.

842
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: There's in a winner that goes by that I don't

843
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 1: pursue bobcats with every ounce of passion that I have

844
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,800
Speaker 1: what was how did you get into it? Then? What

845
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 1: year was it? Did you? Did you get into it?

846
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: Because the fur market was so high, Uh, bobcats in

847
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 1: particularly trapping and trapping and hunting, you know. Yeah, I

848
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,879
Speaker 1: was a hunter for many years before. I didn't even

849
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 1: set a trap until we were already into the rubber

850
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 1: jaw in the early nineties. Oh you didn't, So you

851
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 1: didn't grow up trapping? No, Uh, you know I was

852
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:04,879
Speaker 1: in high school and eighty four I graduated, I think

853
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 1: that year, me and a buddy, So I found a

854
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 1: Johnny Stewart cassette tape in the China hutch that was

855
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 1: my dad's from when he used to cayot hunt, And

856
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 1: as my dad, what's this, you know? So that's forkyot hunting.

857
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: So me and my buddy went in, uh temporarily borrowed

858
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 1: one of those little tape players from the library at

859
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: to high school, like a little carry strap on it. Uh.

860
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: We went out of the desert dad afternoon and in

861
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:38,800
Speaker 1: thirty mile winds and turned on that Johnny Stewart cassette

862
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: and hiked up the top of a hill and waited

863
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:48,280
Speaker 1: for a coyote. And uh, there hasn't been a winner

864
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 1: ever since that. I haven't you know, gone after coyotes

865
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: and bobcats with everything I had, what was the main

866
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 1: years when you were when you really got into like

867
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 1: the production bobcat work though, So, um, you know I

868
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: was killing a lot of bobcats at night because we

869
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 1: had a we had a pretty good bobcat hunting season

870
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 1: that we could hunt at night in California and in

871
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: that Mojabi desert because you know, it could be pretty productive.

872
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 1: You know, I could shoot I think my highest year,

873
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: I almost broke seventy bobcats just hunting at night. Uh.

874
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: And they're good bobcats. You know you were talking earlier

875
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:25,320
Speaker 1: about the about the color face bears and and I

876
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 1: think you were saying the darker ones or more where

877
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 1: it's more human, more rain and everything, more thick cover. Well, yeah,

878
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 1: and and so with bobcats, when you're looking for a

879
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 1: good bobcat country, you tend to look for open country.

880
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 1: You know, the color of the soil and ice and brown.

881
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 1: When you get up in the country like this where

882
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 1: you got your your timber and stuff, darker stuff, then

883
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:45,359
Speaker 1: you end up with a bobcat that's got a lot

884
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 1: darker fur. On the back and stuff. And so when

885
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 1: you're in like the basin and ranged country of of

886
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: Nevada and the Mojabi desert California, you have a lot

887
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:56,319
Speaker 1: of a lot of sunlight hits the ground, a lot

888
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: of brown ground, you know, not a lot of ground cover,

889
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: and so you end up with a much more pale bobcat,

890
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 1: which is where the money is. So I lived somewhere

891
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:07,800
Speaker 1: where there was you know, some pretty dark, nice bobcats.

892
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,240
Speaker 1: And they still have the big like Lynx grade bellies

893
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,320
Speaker 1: on them too, the big white spotted bellies. Are you

894
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 1: talking about my bobcat? Yeah? Oh yeah, pure white, pure

895
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: white with well defined, little tiny black spots. Yeah, they're

896
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 1: they're they're not heavy enough for because it's not cold

897
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 1: enough to to rate among the best in the country,

898
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 1: you know, like a Wyoming bobcat or some of the

899
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 1: Idaho cats or the high desert of say Oregon. Let's say, um,

900
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 1: they just don't have the hef to the fur. But

901
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 1: as far as a white fur with well defined spots, uh, yeah,

902
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,320
Speaker 1: they're pretty good quality cat. It's a real shame losing

903
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 1: losing calf eastern California. We were we We've taxed a

904
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 1: fair bit about the market, like what that fur market

905
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 1: has looked like at times? Can you talk through some

906
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 1: of the highs you've seen, like you mentioned when we

907
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 1: were talking and yesterday you mentioned like some pretty sizeable

908
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:06,879
Speaker 1: yeah catches you had, you know, like like in terms

909
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 1: of financial value, but what were these? It always surprises

910
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 1: people to hear what what bobcats have been valued? That

911
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 1: there's no other thing that even approaches the value of

912
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:20,359
Speaker 1: a bobcat. And yeah, in the trade you were talking

913
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 1: about sidetes being alicted species, and that's that's only because

914
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 1: it's I believe what it is refer you to do

915
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:27,839
Speaker 1: as a lookalike species. So it's the only spotted cat

916
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,919
Speaker 1: that can be sold on the fur industry, and because

917
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 1: there's other spotty cats that are protected, they end up

918
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 1: putting the bobcat on the side. He's yeah, And so

919
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 1: there's there's been desire and attempts over the years to

920
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 1: get it taken off that list, but you'll never see that.

921
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 1: But so that's why I didn't know, That's why I

922
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: was on there. That's interesting. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm

923
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: accurate on that. That's how that works. But um, yeah,

924
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 1: you know the high cats always get all the attention.

925
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:57,720
Speaker 1: You know. Um, you know you hear about a six bobcat,

926
00:54:57,880 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 1: you know that got sold at a first sale or

927
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 1: you know whatever the high cat of each sale is.

928
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 1: You know, the guys do that for advertisement, the fur

929
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,359
Speaker 1: buyers and stuff. But really what you have to look

930
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 1: at is the is the average price of for sales?

931
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 1: You know, like we're what's the average bobcat? And um, yes,

932
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:18,239
Speaker 1: some of those averages uh uh. You know, like if

933
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 1: the Fallon, Nevada for sale is always a good one

934
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:22,879
Speaker 1: to look at. Uh, it's a real long running first

935
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:24,320
Speaker 1: sale where a lot of the best fur in the

936
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: nation end up, you know, stuff that doesn't get bought

937
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 1: in the country and or shipped to the Canadian auctions.

938
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:32,320
Speaker 1: A lot of the best stuff ends up at that

939
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 1: Fallon for sale and they keep a historical record there.

940
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 1: You can look at it every year when you're at

941
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:39,799
Speaker 1: the sale. I think I sent you a picture, did

942
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 1: all that? Um? Yeah? And you can look at years.

943
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:44,799
Speaker 1: I don't know, all the years kind of blend together,

944
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:48,280
Speaker 1: but you know, oh, age and I think twelve thirteen,

945
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: like two thousand, twelve thirteen was a real high year

946
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 1: if I remember, Um, you know, like I don't know,

947
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 1: four hundred fifty dollar averages, you know, like like they

948
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 1: sell like two thousand cats at that sale and rich

949
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 1: prices three eight something like that, you know, for fifty.

950
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: But but what makes the news is the the one

951
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 1: cat that sold his bucks or something you were saying.

952
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 1: They do that kind of they do that to generate hype. Yeah,

953
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: the business. Yeah, you always if you have a high

954
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 1: cab of stale, you always take a picture with the

955
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 1: with the buyer that bought it and and he gets

956
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: his name. But it gets people excited. Oh definitely. Yeah,

957
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: you're like, did you hear the bobcats are going for

958
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 1: six bucks? Yeah? That's all you hear. You know, Um,

959
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: I think I think last year, uh there was just

960
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 1: a little bit of good news last year in the

961
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 1: firm market, and this year is expected to be at

962
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:40,360
Speaker 1: least there's no bad news. You know. I was just

963
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: talking to a guy this morning, a fur buyer, and

964
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:46,239
Speaker 1: he said, well, initially they were saying prices might take

965
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 1: up just a little bit because they're opening up some

966
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 1: markets and they're figuring out how to get around the

967
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 1: whole rush of thing. You know. Um, uh, they're expecting

968
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 1: a little bit of a tick up this year, but

969
00:56:57,760 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 1: it may or may not happen, you know, is you

970
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 1: got to take everything a fur buyer tells you with

971
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 1: a grain of salt, you know. Um, there's always a

972
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 1: little bit of a more of a story to what

973
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 1: they're telling you, uh, what they're wanting you to believe,

974
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,799
Speaker 1: you know, or and with me, they kind of want

975
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 1: me to repeat something, you know, like they'll they'll make

976
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 1: sure they they tell me something they want repeated, you know. Yeah,

977
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 1: because I I don't know, there's three or four the

978
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 1: main fur buyers in the whole in the West, and

979
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 1: I talked to him all pretty regular and influence a

980
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 1: lot of times, well a lot of times I'll get

981
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 1: a little bit of a plant with me, you know

982
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 1: that they're one for buyers hoping I repeat to another

983
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 1: fur buyer. You know, I think that goes on. Why

984
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 1: don't I understand Why I don't understand, like what would

985
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 1: they be pushing to have out there? Give me the

986
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 1: prince oh you know, like for instance, uh, um, you know,

987
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 1: one one guy might report that he's at a certain

988
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: number on a certain grade cat. That's what he's planning

989
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 1: on buying at, you know, and hoping maybe that gets

990
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 1: to another fur buyer to one end. They're always playing

991
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 1: aimes Okay, but what would he be after I would

992
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 1: I would assume he'd be after that, that buyer I

993
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 1: don't understand, Like what would he be hoping the other

994
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 1: buyer would do? It could influence his buying maybe, you know,

995
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: like meaning that he's gonna pay less and that makes

996
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 1: more available. Maybe he's gonna maybe he's gonna pay less

997
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: and then the other guy, you know, has a better

998
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 1: shot at other cats in the business. Yeah, they're always

999
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 1: they're always gossip in and talking about each other and stuff.

1000
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 1: It's a yeah, it's it can get kind of fun sometimes.

1001
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 1: Have you ever gotten into that business? Yeah, very briefly,

1002
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:40,919
Speaker 1: very briefly. The one guy here in Montana, he had

1003
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 1: me he was gonna have me buy for him at

1004
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: a at a first cello that in Arizona that I

1005
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 1: was helping put on um and at the last minute

1006
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 1: his daughter ended up showing up. Who's is she? Pretty?

1007
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 1: She pretty badass woman. You need to meet her someday.

1008
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 1: Her name is Liberty Cordhum. She's she's pretty cool, but

1009
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 1: she's a fur buyer. She flew out to to help

1010
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 1: me buy. Yeah, I was a nervous wreck. Yeah, oh god. Yeah.

1011
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 1: He gives me a bunch of checks and tells me

1012
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 1: to buy the best cats. They're they're there, you know.

1013
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:11,560
Speaker 1: Do you know a good cat when you see one.

1014
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 1: I know a good cat when I see one. I

1015
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 1: don't know like they see. But at the same time,

1016
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 1: I've I've carried the clipboard for a lot of them

1017
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 1: fur buyers, you know, like stand next to him at

1018
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 1: the first sale and write down the numbers that they're

1019
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 1: telling me for. You know, the cats are all laying

1020
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 1: on tables and lots, you know, little groups for each

1021
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 1: trapper and stuff, and they're going through grading. I'm measuring them,

1022
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: looking them over, and they'll come up with the price,

1023
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 1: and they'll whisper to me. I'll write on the clipboards,

1024
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 1: you know, And more than once, with more than one

1025
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: fur buyer, I've I've gone down two or three you know,

1026
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 1: lots on the table and and say, hey, you know,

1027
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:48,920
Speaker 1: I missed, I missed that number on a lot, you know,

1028
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:52,120
Speaker 1: And so we back up five ft and go over there,

1029
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: and I'll be darn if you didn't come over the

1030
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 1: completely different price. Yeah, it's very it's very much. You

1031
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 1: to think that it's that there's this you know, like

1032
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 1: rules and and there is a technique that they look at,

1033
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 1: you know, measuring the width of it, the length of it,

1034
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 1: you know, the color of the fur, the definition of

1035
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 1: the spots, all that stuff. But there's also very much

1036
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 1: a human component to it. You know. They either just

1037
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 1: they can fall in love with a cat, just emotionally

1038
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 1: like it and or not like it. Um. You know,

1039
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 1: some fur buyers, you'll see them painstakingly measuring every single cat,

1040
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 1: you know, and just really being precise with their grading.

1041
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 1: Um and other guys have handled, you know, hundreds of

1042
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 1: thousands of furs. Just grab it, flip it over once,

1043
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 1: flip it over again, look it up and down. They

1044
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 1: might brush the fur with their hand one time to

1045
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 1: see how it's gonna lay when it's on a garment

1046
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:49,120
Speaker 1: and they tell you a number to write down. You

1047
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 1: might not know, but you're sitting in the presence of

1048
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 1: a top lot. Uh yeah, I think I remember that

1049
01:00:54,960 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 1: from Yeah, yeah, top plots for people over the years.

1050
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:07,920
Speaker 1: Right on what makes a sixteen dollar gap? So all

1051
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 1: the money in a bobcat is in the belly, right

1052
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 1: the width of the of the belly, the whiteness of

1053
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 1: the belly, and there's money in that that color line

1054
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 1: from the side fur to the white so where the

1055
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 1: side fur comes down and blends into the white fur,

1056
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 1: the more pale it is there, the the It doesn't

1057
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 1: really make the belly any wider, but it's more usable

1058
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 1: for right because you can use a little bit of

1059
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 1: that side for you know, if you're talking about a

1060
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 1: belly coat, you know, eighty thou dollar all belly Bobcat coat.

1061
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:42,960
Speaker 1: You know that's gonna be all white fur. And so

1062
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 1: the wider the width of that white belly, the further

1063
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 1: it's going to go on a coat square inches. You know,

1064
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:50,320
Speaker 1: if you're just happy to be out and about downtown

1065
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 1: Bowsman and you see a coat that is pretty much

1066
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 1: stark white with small black spots, that's not where you

1067
01:01:57,080 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 1: go to see that coat. You could I saw something

1068
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 1: similar to that in I think it's one you're seeing

1069
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 1: someone from Houston who's at a ski resort in Colorado.

1070
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 1: That could be or big, but either way, that's what

1071
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 1: you're seeing. Is if it's a white coat with black spots,

1072
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 1: that's a belly bobcat coat. Depending on if it's a

1073
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 1: full length coat or a jacket. You know, jacket is

1074
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: going to be cheaper, right, you know. But I'm saying

1075
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 1: that's like, that's the fur that you're looking at. There's

1076
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 1: not another animal that would produce a similar not available

1077
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 1: to the fur market. You know what was that souped

1078
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 1: up coat the Russians were really interested in you're telling

1079
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: me about. Yeah, um, I think it was around two

1080
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 1: thousand and eight. There was pretty good cat prices and

1081
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 1: one of the fur buyers told me that there was

1082
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 1: a a sable coat um that was trimmed in Bobcat. Uh.

1083
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:52,920
Speaker 1: That was the older dark special all the all the

1084
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 1: Russians had to have. What I remember the story. It

1085
01:02:55,880 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 1: was only about in US money. Um, but that's been

1086
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:02,480
Speaker 1: a long time since I had to repeat that story.

1087
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 1: But so it's Martin for sable wind with Bobcat, sable

1088
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 1: with Bobcat trim you know, around the cuffs and the

1089
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 1: collar and I don't know, maybe the lapel. I don't know,

1090
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 1: I didn't actually see one, but that that was what

1091
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 1: was driving the fur industry that year, the Bobcat market. Uh.

1092
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 1: You know what, tell these boys about this, tell them

1093
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:20,840
Speaker 1: what you were telling me about. What the rough on

1094
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:25,280
Speaker 1: a kyote when you have your hood, Yeah, a coyote

1095
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 1: trim hood. I had no idea. Yeah, So what they

1096
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 1: what they sell in the in kyote for what they

1097
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 1: call a rough is not lengthways on the kyot, for

1098
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:40,880
Speaker 1: it's around the kyote for so like going from the

1099
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 1: head towards the like it reminds me of looking at

1100
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 1: a like the diagram of butcher and at cal from

1101
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 1: it's always from the side and it shows, you know,

1102
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:52,200
Speaker 1: the different cuts going. So picture of a kyote like that,

1103
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 1: and what they're selling is roughs and a good you know,

1104
01:03:56,600 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 1: big Montana highlighting kyote. I've heard you can't have as

1105
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 1: many as five roughs, you know. And so if you

1106
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 1: were to picture that rough on the hood of your coat,

1107
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 1: like those Canadian goose coats they were making for a while.

1108
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:09,840
Speaker 1: So at the top of you, if you had your

1109
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:12,560
Speaker 1: hood on the top of your hood would be the

1110
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 1: back for and as you go around left to right,

1111
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 1: left and right down to your throat, it would go

1112
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:23,920
Speaker 1: side for towards belly. For that's dude. I'm so my

1113
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 1: daughter got a um, she got a she got a

1114
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 1: little winter coat that has a fake kyoe thing on it.

1115
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:34,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it in a real kyoe and I'm

1116
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 1: thinking about taking my first light Chamberlain. Oh yeah, you

1117
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:40,160
Speaker 1: can't do it on Chamberlain, I already tried. I just

1118
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 1: told you that, remember, and I wasn't listening. I sent

1119
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 1: it to Samai. Or you were telling me about you

1120
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 1: didn't tell me about this, I sent it. I sent

1121
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 1: a chamberlain to Samai with a with a nice kayot

1122
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 1: and or you did tell me that she tried to

1123
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 1: put it together and she said that just the hood

1124
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 1: opening is too small, and if you were to attach

1125
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:02,760
Speaker 1: that caught that rough to it, you get so tight

1126
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:04,960
Speaker 1: that you you know, you'd be like just looking out

1127
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 1: of a teeny tiny hole. So the opening of the

1128
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 1: hood has to be bigger to make the rough work.

1129
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:16,560
Speaker 1: It sounds like you need a kyo from lower country

1130
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:20,760
Speaker 1: with less fur short fur. Yeah, soon as they caught

1131
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:22,200
Speaker 1: it that way? Do you know that? I did not

1132
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:24,000
Speaker 1: know that. I hope I don't get you a bunch

1133
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:28,480
Speaker 1: of emails on that. But I'm sure that's how that works, probably,

1134
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 1: like everything is. Probably sometimes it's that way and sometimes

1135
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 1: it's different. But when I do it, that's how I'm

1136
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:36,360
Speaker 1: doing it. Makes how much is that five rough Montana

1137
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,800
Speaker 1: Kio Worth. I think the five rough I think that's

1138
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 1: probably an anomaly. I think you're looking at more at

1139
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:46,080
Speaker 1: three or four roughs. But um, you know when Canada

1140
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:48,080
Speaker 1: Goose was building all those coats before they switched over

1141
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 1: the plastic for um them Montana coyotes, the highlight clouds

1142
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 1: for you know, a hundred hundred thirty dollars, that drove

1143
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:57,480
Speaker 1: It's crazy, that drove the market. Well, right now that

1144
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:01,040
Speaker 1: Darren Yellowstone movie is is our TV show is driving

1145
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:05,400
Speaker 1: the beaver market like crazy orders for forty beaver pelts

1146
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 1: right now to make all that wool felt for all

1147
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:12,040
Speaker 1: those steps, to make all those felt hats. Yeah. Yeah,

1148
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 1: I don't know if they be Hollywood, Hollywood realize what

1149
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 1: they're doing better hit it in the spring. Yeah, but

1150
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 1: the hat or market still it's like not much money.

1151
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:24,840
Speaker 1: It's probably still ten bucks oh for the pelt for

1152
01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 1: the beaver. Yeah. So walk me through how in California?

1153
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:34,600
Speaker 1: What happened that got you into designing and like creating

1154
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 1: cam trip cages. Well, so ever since high school I

1155
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:43,240
Speaker 1: worked at sheet metal shop, which I ended up owning

1156
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:47,120
Speaker 1: at some point. Um, which sheet metal is what you

1157
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:49,480
Speaker 1: would call dry side heating and air, so not the

1158
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 1: plumbing side, but you know, heating an air contractor. And

1159
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 1: so I was I've been a fabricator forever, and so uh,

1160
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:02,720
Speaker 1: I was trapping coyotes and a few bobcats in the

1161
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:05,640
Speaker 1: late nineties and early two thousand's, and I was going

1162
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:09,920
Speaker 1: to that um Nevada first sale all the time. Um

1163
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:12,479
Speaker 1: and I met I met a dude named read Aton,

1164
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 1: who is you know, I guess i'd call him my

1165
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:17,400
Speaker 1: k trap and mentor. You know, he's a California guy,

1166
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 1: and him and his his buddy at the time had

1167
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 1: you know, following the trap band, they started experimenting with

1168
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:30,520
Speaker 1: cage traps and and cage traps that they could somehow

1169
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:32,080
Speaker 1: put a lot of them in the back of their truck,

1170
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:34,880
Speaker 1: you know, and come down because they were in northern California,

1171
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:37,640
Speaker 1: they come down to my desert trap. And so if

1172
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:40,880
Speaker 1: you think about a single cage trap that's all completely built,

1173
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:42,840
Speaker 1: you can't fit very man them in a pickup truck, right,

1174
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:46,960
Speaker 1: So they started experimenting with getting bobcats to go into

1175
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:49,840
Speaker 1: narrower cages because up until then it was your guys

1176
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 1: were mostly using like raccoon traps, you know, like eighteen

1177
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 1: by eighteen k traps, right, there wasn't there was a

1178
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:58,200
Speaker 1: there was an outfit in Nebraska who was starting to

1179
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 1: design and build specific Bobcat cage traps, you know, um,

1180
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:06,000
Speaker 1: but mostly guys were just using whatever was available. And

1181
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:07,959
Speaker 1: these two guys were trying to figure out how to build,

1182
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 1: how to come up with something that they could fit

1183
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 1: a bunch of them in a truck. Um, And they

1184
01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:14,720
Speaker 1: come up with a collapsible design and initially and then

1185
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:17,040
Speaker 1: from that they went to a design where they nest

1186
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:20,160
Speaker 1: one inside the other and one is you know, slightly

1187
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:23,040
Speaker 1: smaller than the other one you can slide him inside. Um.

1188
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 1: And so when I met him, they were starting to

1189
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 1: become successful in about two thousand two with successfully cage

1190
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 1: trap and Bobcats in those narrow cages, right, so like

1191
01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:36,559
Speaker 1: ten inch wide cage, nine inch wide cage, eight inch

1192
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 1: wide cages, um, which I don't think anybody else was

1193
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:43,280
Speaker 1: doing at the time. I could be wrong, but uh

1194
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:45,479
Speaker 1: so after meeting him, you know, I bought one of

1195
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:46,960
Speaker 1: his cages, and I and I bought some of the

1196
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:50,440
Speaker 1: cages from the guy in Nebraska, and you know, immediately

1197
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 1: the fabricator and me was like why I can build

1198
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 1: stuff better than this, and so of course I did.

1199
01:08:56,840 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 1: Uh started building them myself, just for my own personal use.

1200
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 1: Because Reid had what was called the California cag Trap

1201
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:09,560
Speaker 1: Company and he was selling cage stress. But eventually I

1202
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:11,519
Speaker 1: told him I'll never sell a cage until, you know,

1203
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:14,439
Speaker 1: until you're done with it or whatever. And it wasn't

1204
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:16,720
Speaker 1: very long that he couldn't keep up. He was a

1205
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:19,680
Speaker 1: older guy, uh, and he didn't like build him and

1206
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:21,719
Speaker 1: shipping him. He couldn't keep up, so he start started

1207
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:24,960
Speaker 1: telling people to call me. And at the same time,

1208
01:09:25,400 --> 01:09:28,919
Speaker 1: a trapper made a video on cage trapping Bobcats and Foxes,

1209
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:32,320
Speaker 1: a buddy of mine in Nevada, and uh, he put

1210
01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:34,439
Speaker 1: me in his video, not me personally, but he was

1211
01:09:34,520 --> 01:09:36,080
Speaker 1: doing it where he didn't even need to be doing

1212
01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 1: it right, Yeah, he's uh, he was using him mostly

1213
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:43,960
Speaker 1: for Foxes. And then uh, there was a guy in

1214
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:46,240
Speaker 1: California and we and him weren't too close with friends

1215
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:48,800
Speaker 1: at that point. There was a guy in California that

1216
01:09:48,880 --> 01:09:52,880
Speaker 1: did the actual Bobcat cage trapping part for that DVD. UM,

1217
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:54,960
Speaker 1: but he at the end of his DVD, he put

1218
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:57,600
Speaker 1: my name in number on here, and so I just

1219
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:01,280
Speaker 1: fell into it. I never did I had I had

1220
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:04,679
Speaker 1: well paying I had good paying jobs all those years.

1221
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:07,120
Speaker 1: I wasn't doing it for the money. I just was

1222
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:10,439
Speaker 1: getting so much enjoyment out of uh well, I mean

1223
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:14,160
Speaker 1: what really what really tickles me, floats my boat is

1224
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:17,360
Speaker 1: is trying to build something better, trying to make it

1225
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:20,000
Speaker 1: better and better and better, and and trying to develop

1226
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:22,560
Speaker 1: ways to get the bobcat into the cage, you know,

1227
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:25,280
Speaker 1: because that's that's always such a challenge, you know those

1228
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:27,519
Speaker 1: the podcasts don't want to go in there. Can we

1229
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:29,280
Speaker 1: get into that a little bit? Is that a good time?

1230
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:32,200
Speaker 1: Because yeah, I'm wondering how you get I mean, could

1231
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:35,960
Speaker 1: you fit auder into an eight inch by eight inch cage?

1232
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:39,160
Speaker 1: Or is that too big? Well, you're if you're saying

1233
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:40,880
Speaker 1: eight by eight you mean eight inches tall? And I

1234
01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:46,400
Speaker 1: would say no, um is it with yeah? Right? And

1235
01:10:46,439 --> 01:10:50,920
Speaker 1: then it's long eight inches wide? Yeah. So like if

1236
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:53,840
Speaker 1: I if I say my tenes trap, so like my

1237
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:56,920
Speaker 1: traps I build is the big one is eleven inches

1238
01:10:56,920 --> 01:10:59,640
Speaker 1: wide and twenty inches tall, and what goes inside that one?

1239
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 1: Would was the big challenge for me. An accomplishment was

1240
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:04,840
Speaker 1: to make a cage that would fit inside there that

1241
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:07,880
Speaker 1: only had a one inch size break. So from eleven

1242
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:10,840
Speaker 1: it goes to ten by nineteen, So eleven by twenty

1243
01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:13,360
Speaker 1: eleven inches wide, twenties is tall, and then ten inches

1244
01:11:13,400 --> 01:11:16,519
Speaker 1: wide nineteen itches tall fits inside there. And inside that

1245
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:19,160
Speaker 1: one is a nine by eighteen and inside that one

1246
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:21,519
Speaker 1: is eight by seventeen. So you have four cages that

1247
01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:24,120
Speaker 1: only have four inch difference in the in the size.

1248
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 1: So did you sell those as a kid then? Yeah,

1249
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 1: the most common thing is a set of three. Yeah,

1250
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:34,559
Speaker 1: I don't The smallest cages not always the most popular.

1251
01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:37,160
Speaker 1: It's popular in the desert, and their goal is, like

1252
01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:40,559
Speaker 1: you're saying, it's just so that a trapper can carry more. Yeah,

1253
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:42,560
Speaker 1: I mean I run a little tiny Toyota with a

1254
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:45,840
Speaker 1: crossbed toolbox and I can still fit fifteen cages in there.

1255
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:48,760
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, that's the only way that you can

1256
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:51,800
Speaker 1: be productive. So how do you get that bobcat to

1257
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:56,599
Speaker 1: go in there? No? I may know less now than

1258
01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:59,160
Speaker 1: I did twenty years ago when I started this. That's

1259
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:01,639
Speaker 1: that's the valunge with those bobcats. You know, they're always

1260
01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:04,120
Speaker 1: you just can't figure them out. You never will, And

1261
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 1: I used to say, you know, bobcats a bobcat no matter,

1262
01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:09,800
Speaker 1: you know, like wherever you go. But I have enough

1263
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:12,439
Speaker 1: customers in different states, and I've trapped enough different states

1264
01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:15,960
Speaker 1: now that that's not true. You know, they're influenced by um,

1265
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:20,519
Speaker 1: their environment, availability to pray, you know, the temperatures. UM.

1266
01:12:21,439 --> 01:12:23,960
Speaker 1: I was trapping in the in the Majabi desert, and

1267
01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:26,960
Speaker 1: there's just something about cage trapping bobcats down there is

1268
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:30,800
Speaker 1: just easy. You're you're you're exposed to a lot of

1269
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:33,839
Speaker 1: bobcats first of all, right, so there's higher densities depending

1270
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:36,040
Speaker 1: on you know, how your droughts going and whatnot. You know,

1271
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:38,479
Speaker 1: there's always the droughts really hard on them. But um,

1272
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:41,360
Speaker 1: so you're exposed, you have more opportunities to catch bobcats,

1273
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:43,720
Speaker 1: so you catch more, but they're just more likely to

1274
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:46,320
Speaker 1: go in. And then you know that I had dinner

1275
01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:48,360
Speaker 1: with that local trapper last night. He uses my cage

1276
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:51,840
Speaker 1: traps right here in Montana, UM, and he said that, man,

1277
01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:53,720
Speaker 1: he's really having a rash of walk bys, you know,

1278
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:55,360
Speaker 1: where they just walk by in front of the cage.

1279
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 1: I mean, don't even pause, just literally walk past it.

1280
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:02,519
Speaker 1: Why is he using a cage. Uh you know, Um,

1281
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly there. They're very Uh they're they're

1282
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:12,280
Speaker 1: easier to keep operating in in the snow than digging

1283
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:14,080
Speaker 1: out your foot traps or you know, you got two

1284
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:16,439
Speaker 1: ft of snow, you can say a cage. And so

1285
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:18,559
Speaker 1: long as like the country you guys live in, it's

1286
01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:21,599
Speaker 1: just freaking cold all the time. Um, so the doors

1287
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:25,120
Speaker 1: don't freeze up. But where where the cage trap doesn't

1288
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:27,760
Speaker 1: work is when you get you know, freezing snow, you know,

1289
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:29,800
Speaker 1: or it warms up during the day forty degrees and

1290
01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:32,000
Speaker 1: then it's you've got that water on the on the

1291
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 1: door that freezes at night, and then your your cage froze.

1292
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:37,800
Speaker 1: So it's not it's not a perfect system, but uh,

1293
01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:41,679
Speaker 1: you can keep them working in the in the snow, explain,

1294
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:46,639
Speaker 1: explain baiting and luring one so he goes into a cage. Yeah.

1295
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:51,200
Speaker 1: I think what the biggest mistake that the trappers young

1296
01:13:51,280 --> 01:13:53,960
Speaker 1: and old make is they think too much like a

1297
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:57,160
Speaker 1: human being, uh with the cage trap. And not to

1298
01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 1: disrespect the animal. I I love and respect you know,

1299
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:04,759
Speaker 1: all sorts of wildlife, especially the bobcat. They're fascinating creature.

1300
01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:08,400
Speaker 1: But They're just an animal, you know, they're they're they're

1301
01:14:08,439 --> 01:14:11,400
Speaker 1: only capable. They've never had an original thought in their life, right,

1302
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:14,599
Speaker 1: They're only capable of reacting like a like a wild

1303
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:18,240
Speaker 1: animal would. Right. So you see guys on the internet

1304
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:21,720
Speaker 1: talk about, you know, you sprinkling feathers out in front

1305
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:24,400
Speaker 1: of their cage, and putting missing urine on the front

1306
01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:27,080
Speaker 1: of their cage to hide their human sand and uh,

1307
01:14:27,479 --> 01:14:29,840
Speaker 1: you know, hanging a flag up in the tree. You know,

1308
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:31,720
Speaker 1: those are all things that the bobcat is going to

1309
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:34,000
Speaker 1: react to, and none of those reactions are going to

1310
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:37,840
Speaker 1: cause the bobcat to become interested what's inside the cage trap, Right,

1311
01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:39,880
Speaker 1: they think, oh, I, I, you know, put a bunch

1312
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:41,519
Speaker 1: of feathers from a feather pillow in front of the

1313
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:44,400
Speaker 1: cage to get him excited. You know what was that

1314
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:46,400
Speaker 1: caused him to do? That? Causes him to smell a

1315
01:14:46,479 --> 01:14:50,519
Speaker 1: bunch of you know, sanitized sterile feathers that came out

1316
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:52,160
Speaker 1: of a pillow in front of your cage. He smells

1317
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:53,800
Speaker 1: a couple of them, maybe one of them flitters in

1318
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:55,640
Speaker 1: the wind, and he goes over there and puts his

1319
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:58,680
Speaker 1: paw on it, smells it, and it didn't trigger anything naturally, right,

1320
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:02,639
Speaker 1: So compare that to let's say, in within your cage trap,

1321
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:05,679
Speaker 1: you have feathers from whatsever legal where you're, where you're living,

1322
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:09,320
Speaker 1: you know, um say pheasant feathers, you know. Uh. So,

1323
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:11,679
Speaker 1: like one of the things I do, after I bed

1324
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:14,680
Speaker 1: the cage and put soil in the trap, I'll take

1325
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 1: whatever bait I'm using, Let's say it's beaver or a

1326
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:21,400
Speaker 1: pheasant carcass, and I'll scrub the soil just inside the

1327
01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:24,599
Speaker 1: door opening of the cage, like, scrub that bait into there.

1328
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:27,640
Speaker 1: Now I've imparting those natural odors into the floor of

1329
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:31,200
Speaker 1: the trap before I hang the bait in the back. Okay,

1330
01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:34,599
Speaker 1: So now the bobcat comes and visit this cage, because

1331
01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:37,200
Speaker 1: most of them will walk over to and visit this

1332
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:40,360
Speaker 1: thing that wasn't there last time they come through. It's

1333
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:43,960
Speaker 1: this weird rectangular square thing, you know. So they're curiosity,

1334
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:45,880
Speaker 1: they're curious. Nature is just going to cause them to

1335
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:49,560
Speaker 1: come start smelling it. Um. And then they smell the

1336
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:51,960
Speaker 1: ground and now they're like, oh, a pheasant. You know,

1337
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:53,320
Speaker 1: I haven't had a pheasant in a while, you know,

1338
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:56,120
Speaker 1: And they maybe take one step in because there's a

1339
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 1: few feathers in there that caused them to trigger now

1340
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:02,479
Speaker 1: truly to it. You know, I think of as like, um,

1341
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:06,000
Speaker 1: you know, like a storefront window. Right, you have the

1342
01:16:06,080 --> 01:16:09,280
Speaker 1: mannequin there on the with a dress on it, and

1343
01:16:09,360 --> 01:16:11,719
Speaker 1: you're walking down the street with your with your wife.

1344
01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:14,320
Speaker 1: She's not even think about dress, but then she sees

1345
01:16:14,360 --> 01:16:16,920
Speaker 1: the dress in the window, and now she's all she

1346
01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:19,559
Speaker 1: can think about his address. Right. It's like I'm trying

1347
01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:22,880
Speaker 1: to trigger them to want to investigate inside the cage.

1348
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:26,040
Speaker 1: So I'm trying to use natural odors within the trap

1349
01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:28,040
Speaker 1: that cause that. You know, stuff that I do out

1350
01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:31,160
Speaker 1: of the cage, some of it has values like a flag.

1351
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:33,400
Speaker 1: Some guys think, oh, all I gotta do you know,

1352
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:36,760
Speaker 1: I'm making a Bobcat set, so therefore I need a flag, right,

1353
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:38,720
Speaker 1: A feather hanging in the tree or whatever a c

1354
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:42,519
Speaker 1: D Let's say, Well, no, a flag has a job.

1355
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:45,679
Speaker 1: The job of the flag is to is to try

1356
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:47,720
Speaker 1: to pull a cat over to your set that you

1357
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:50,760
Speaker 1: don't expect to already be there. Right, So like where

1358
01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:54,679
Speaker 1: were Yeah they're blowing the wind from way off and yeah,

1359
01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:58,599
Speaker 1: yesterday in those stick trees. You know, a flag wouldn't

1360
01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:01,040
Speaker 1: have a whole lot of value. Right, You're gonna want

1361
01:17:01,080 --> 01:17:02,960
Speaker 1: to put your your set right where that bobcat is

1362
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:05,360
Speaker 1: gonna walk anyways. But if you have, you know, some

1363
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:07,160
Speaker 1: fairly open country out in front of your cage, you

1364
01:17:07,200 --> 01:17:09,320
Speaker 1: have a big hill next to where you're setting, and

1365
01:17:09,479 --> 01:17:11,439
Speaker 1: you you expect maybe a bobcat would be up there

1366
01:17:11,479 --> 01:17:13,800
Speaker 1: on that hill and the rocks or what have you. Uh,

1367
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:16,439
Speaker 1: And you can't necessarily get the cage where you want

1368
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:18,639
Speaker 1: where you expect the bobcat to be. Well, then you'd

1369
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:22,280
Speaker 1: use a flag, you know, um, and then cause him

1370
01:17:22,280 --> 01:17:24,479
Speaker 1: to come over to see the flag and then becomes

1371
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:28,799
Speaker 1: interested in the cage. Um. So everything you do outside

1372
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:32,640
Speaker 1: the cage has a potential to distract the cat, you know. Um.

1373
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:36,560
Speaker 1: I remember when I was filming for one of my DVDs,

1374
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:39,720
Speaker 1: I had a trail camera on a set and I

1375
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:42,080
Speaker 1: caught a big tom bobcat in this cage trap. And

1376
01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:43,960
Speaker 1: the next day I set up my tripod in my

1377
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:46,280
Speaker 1: movie camera, you know, and I was I took the

1378
01:17:46,280 --> 01:17:47,960
Speaker 1: bobcat out of the cage and I was laying it

1379
01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:49,880
Speaker 1: down in front of me, and you know, I was

1380
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:53,120
Speaker 1: filming myself, you know, talking to the camera. Yeah, I'm

1381
01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:54,400
Speaker 1: the great strapper in the world. You know, I just

1382
01:17:54,479 --> 01:17:56,160
Speaker 1: caught this big bobcat and just how you do it?

1383
01:17:56,920 --> 01:17:59,680
Speaker 1: And uh, I left the trail camera on there, and

1384
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:01,960
Speaker 1: a few days go by, I never caught anything else,

1385
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:03,760
Speaker 1: And so I picked it all up and took the

1386
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:06,160
Speaker 1: trail camera home and and I end up with a

1387
01:18:06,240 --> 01:18:08,479
Speaker 1: video of this. What what I was guessing was a

1388
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:12,240
Speaker 1: female bobcat come to that set location and she spent

1389
01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:14,519
Speaker 1: like three and a half minute smelling every square inch

1390
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:16,880
Speaker 1: of soil where that tom had been laying in front

1391
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:19,519
Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, never even looked at the kate trap.

1392
01:18:20,200 --> 01:18:22,639
Speaker 1: So you end up with enough stuff like that happening.

1393
01:18:23,160 --> 01:18:25,639
Speaker 1: You know, one thing I always tell trappers like, never

1394
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:27,720
Speaker 1: pull the cave trap out of the trap bed to

1395
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:31,000
Speaker 1: dispatch your animal, right, figure out a way not to

1396
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:33,519
Speaker 1: do that. I stand my cage traps up in and

1397
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 1: we don't when to talk about dispatch. But what you

1398
01:18:36,040 --> 01:18:38,799
Speaker 1: do when you drag that cage out, you know, everybody

1399
01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:40,559
Speaker 1: wants to drag it out, turn it sideways to take

1400
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:43,439
Speaker 1: a picture. You know, you're just dragging all that wonderful

1401
01:18:43,479 --> 01:18:45,160
Speaker 1: odors out of the cage bed onto the ground in

1402
01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:47,680
Speaker 1: front of in front of the trap. You know, if

1403
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:50,120
Speaker 1: you let's say you dispatch your bobcat in the cage

1404
01:18:50,120 --> 01:18:51,439
Speaker 1: and you pull it out late in front of your

1405
01:18:51,640 --> 01:18:55,280
Speaker 1: trap and take a take a picture, you know, you're

1406
01:18:55,360 --> 01:18:59,880
Speaker 1: just causing uh, you know, confusion for that next cat

1407
01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:03,479
Speaker 1: or a distraction. So so when you ask about how

1408
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:06,120
Speaker 1: you get a cat into a cage, there's a big

1409
01:19:06,200 --> 01:19:09,240
Speaker 1: list of don't and then a few dudes. You know

1410
01:19:09,400 --> 01:19:11,000
Speaker 1: that you you always want to make sure that you

1411
01:19:11,080 --> 01:19:22,840
Speaker 1: do hit me with the dudes. I am a big

1412
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:27,320
Speaker 1: proponent of skunk paste, uh, you know, And so you

1413
01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:29,519
Speaker 1: can either put you're gonna push your cage up against

1414
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:32,080
Speaker 1: a tree trunk. Let's say you can smear some skunk

1415
01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:33,960
Speaker 1: paste on that trunk before you put your cage up

1416
01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:37,160
Speaker 1: against it. Uh. I live in deserts, so I always

1417
01:19:37,200 --> 01:19:39,040
Speaker 1: just dig a little hole with my hand where the

1418
01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:41,000
Speaker 1: where the very back of the cage would be, like

1419
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:43,639
Speaker 1: just beyond the pan, and I put my skunk paste

1420
01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:47,400
Speaker 1: in there, because I think skunk for for almost all

1421
01:19:47,439 --> 01:19:50,560
Speaker 1: the stuff that we trapped on the land. Um and

1422
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:54,160
Speaker 1: even people it's it's like, you know, hey, something happened

1423
01:19:54,160 --> 01:19:55,760
Speaker 1: over there, I better go check it out. That's what

1424
01:19:55,840 --> 01:19:59,080
Speaker 1: skunk smell is to to all that. You know, Kyo's

1425
01:19:59,160 --> 01:20:01,439
Speaker 1: Bobcats and everything. You know. I mean, you guys spent

1426
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:03,080
Speaker 1: so much time in the field, I'm sure you smell

1427
01:20:03,320 --> 01:20:05,519
Speaker 1: smell the skunk. You you might have walked towards it

1428
01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:07,560
Speaker 1: just to see, you know, what happened there, you know,

1429
01:20:07,960 --> 01:20:10,360
Speaker 1: something got killed or whatever. And it does the same

1430
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:13,720
Speaker 1: thing for for predators. So you know, I'm a big

1431
01:20:13,760 --> 01:20:17,679
Speaker 1: proponent of that. Um. You know, having natural odors inside

1432
01:20:17,720 --> 01:20:19,760
Speaker 1: the cage to cause them to want to, you know,

1433
01:20:20,120 --> 01:20:23,599
Speaker 1: enter the trap. Uh, you're investigating those odors. You're trying

1434
01:20:23,640 --> 01:20:25,840
Speaker 1: to change their mind, right, they come up to the cage.

1435
01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:29,599
Speaker 1: Maybe they you know, hopefully they smelt it. So another

1436
01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:32,160
Speaker 1: one that I do. And I uh, you know, some

1437
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:33,840
Speaker 1: of this stuff I learned from different people. I don't

1438
01:20:34,360 --> 01:20:36,320
Speaker 1: need to mention all their names give them credit. But

1439
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:39,240
Speaker 1: you know, a guy in Colorado taught me about thermal's,

1440
01:20:39,280 --> 01:20:41,760
Speaker 1: you know, because you guys know about thermals your ilk

1441
01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:44,240
Speaker 1: hunters and all that. Um, I'm from the desert. I

1442
01:20:44,240 --> 01:20:46,479
Speaker 1: don't really know a whole lot about thermals um. But

1443
01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:49,560
Speaker 1: the time of day when the bobcats most active is

1444
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:52,160
Speaker 1: going to be you know, the twilight hours, late afternoon,

1445
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:54,160
Speaker 1: all night, and early in the morning when thermals are

1446
01:20:54,160 --> 01:20:57,240
Speaker 1: going downhill. And so I can't tell you how many

1447
01:20:57,320 --> 01:20:59,760
Speaker 1: cage traps I've seen that we're pointed up a wash,

1448
01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:02,439
Speaker 1: and I'll go up past them and set my cage

1449
01:21:02,479 --> 01:21:05,080
Speaker 1: pointed down the wash. So then when the bobcat gets

1450
01:21:05,120 --> 01:21:08,040
Speaker 1: there during the time of day when he's most active,

1451
01:21:08,200 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 1: it's the low light conditions, the thermal is going to

1452
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:13,360
Speaker 1: be going down that wash. So when he approaches the

1453
01:21:13,360 --> 01:21:14,800
Speaker 1: front of the cage, the odors hit him right in

1454
01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:17,439
Speaker 1: the face. So now he triggers on those odors and

1455
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:19,519
Speaker 1: he knows to follow them. Right. So a lot of

1456
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:22,000
Speaker 1: these guys that send me pictures of bobcat tracks in

1457
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:23,679
Speaker 1: the snow and stuff on the side of their trap,

1458
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:26,160
Speaker 1: you know, the bobcats trying to get to the to

1459
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:28,320
Speaker 1: the source of the odors or the bait from the side.

1460
01:21:28,720 --> 01:21:31,200
Speaker 1: What chances are that's where he's smelling it coming from.

1461
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:34,680
Speaker 1: You follow me, Yeah, So he's standing, he stand at

1462
01:21:34,680 --> 01:21:37,720
Speaker 1: the front of the cage and nothing triggers him naturally. Um,

1463
01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:42,840
Speaker 1: are you brushing in your your cages? Um? Yeah? What's

1464
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:44,840
Speaker 1: what's the set look like like when you when you

1465
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:49,720
Speaker 1: set one. So you know, in the desert, you could

1466
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:52,640
Speaker 1: spend ten minutes breaking brush and it looks like you

1467
01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:55,000
Speaker 1: threw toothpicks on your cage. You know, there's no leaves.

1468
01:21:55,720 --> 01:21:58,280
Speaker 1: So that's a very different set than the majority of people.

1469
01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:02,439
Speaker 1: Majority of travelers are trapping. You know, heavier country, um so,

1470
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:04,400
Speaker 1: and a lot of guys have to deal with snow

1471
01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:06,360
Speaker 1: right so up here, you guys would have to be

1472
01:22:06,439 --> 01:22:09,560
Speaker 1: putting plastic bags over the top of your trap, or

1473
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:12,400
Speaker 1: even put your cage in a trap plastic bag. Uh,

1474
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:15,880
Speaker 1: maybe finding ledges that are south facing that have dirt

1475
01:22:16,360 --> 01:22:17,760
Speaker 1: so that you can be under the ledge keep the

1476
01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:20,519
Speaker 1: snow off. Um So, you really have no choice. There's

1477
01:22:20,560 --> 01:22:23,240
Speaker 1: a The guys in the Northwest kind of use a

1478
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:27,000
Speaker 1: dark whole mentality to their cage trapping. So like you know,

1479
01:22:27,120 --> 01:22:29,360
Speaker 1: throw a paper bag on the floor and your house

1480
01:22:29,439 --> 01:22:31,519
Speaker 1: cat just goes in it for whatever, why the hell

1481
01:22:31,560 --> 01:22:33,439
Speaker 1: it does, I don't know, it goes in the dark hole.

1482
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:36,839
Speaker 1: So those guys kind of think of you know, trapping

1483
01:22:36,960 --> 01:22:39,560
Speaker 1: like that. Um that is not at all how I

1484
01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:42,640
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just where I lived. We couldn't do that.

1485
01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:45,600
Speaker 1: We didn't need to. Um. The bobcats just go right in.

1486
01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:48,040
Speaker 1: So there was a period of time when I thought,

1487
01:22:48,400 --> 01:22:50,080
Speaker 1: you know, maybe the difference of as I go to

1488
01:22:50,160 --> 01:22:52,640
Speaker 1: Colorado and I have terrible luck, I have a lot

1489
01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:54,760
Speaker 1: of visits with no no cats going in, you know.

1490
01:22:55,320 --> 01:22:58,479
Speaker 1: And uh, I started using more bait because I think

1491
01:22:58,479 --> 01:23:02,200
Speaker 1: they're more calorie driven in in the colder country. Um.

1492
01:23:02,360 --> 01:23:05,120
Speaker 1: In the desert, you can't really use bait because it's

1493
01:23:05,160 --> 01:23:08,280
Speaker 1: just too warm. It's just just you know, it's just nasty. Yeah,

1494
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:12,080
Speaker 1: and so you use all lure and your cages are

1495
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:14,400
Speaker 1: barely covered up. Um. So there was a period of

1496
01:23:14,479 --> 01:23:16,560
Speaker 1: time I thought, you know, maybe that's the difference. You know,

1497
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:18,880
Speaker 1: maybe it's not the cat. Maybe it's maybe it's the country,

1498
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:23,519
Speaker 1: you know. And uh, but I really can't say how.

1499
01:23:23,640 --> 01:23:26,479
Speaker 1: I I don't know why it's something more difficult to

1500
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:28,640
Speaker 1: catch these bobcats and cages in the mountain country. I

1501
01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:31,600
Speaker 1: just don't know. I don't know. You were telling me

1502
01:23:31,680 --> 01:23:38,080
Speaker 1: something yesterday, uh about their power of smell that I

1503
01:23:38,200 --> 01:23:40,280
Speaker 1: was thinking about after we talked, And you're mentioning that

1504
01:23:40,439 --> 01:23:45,519
Speaker 1: when you when you're working on research projects, how quickly

1505
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:51,200
Speaker 1: a bobcat will come in and occupy the vacated area

1506
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:57,080
Speaker 1: left by the death of another bobcat, And like, how

1507
01:23:57,160 --> 01:24:00,080
Speaker 1: do they know what it was? And how do they

1508
01:24:00,200 --> 01:24:04,160
Speaker 1: know that the person the cat has gone? How do

1509
01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:06,479
Speaker 1: they know what it was? Like you were talking about

1510
01:24:06,479 --> 01:24:09,880
Speaker 1: spots where you can look at tracking data, Yeah, and

1511
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:11,880
Speaker 1: you'll know that a cat were going and just take

1512
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:14,599
Speaker 1: over the territory of another cat. Oh yeah, it's amazing

1513
01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:18,160
Speaker 1: how fast sometimes And I think the cat that died,

1514
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:21,400
Speaker 1: the better his country is, the faster than neighboring cats

1515
01:24:21,439 --> 01:24:24,560
Speaker 1: will take it over, right, like as soon as a

1516
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:28,360
Speaker 1: few weeks. It's pretty impressive. Like if you picture like

1517
01:24:28,479 --> 01:24:34,160
Speaker 1: a just picture like a checkerboard, Uh, you know the squares,

1518
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:36,559
Speaker 1: and picture three squares, a black one on the left,

1519
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:37,880
Speaker 1: a red one in the middle, and a black one

1520
01:24:37,920 --> 01:24:40,200
Speaker 1: on the right. We we had a situation with three

1521
01:24:40,240 --> 01:24:42,760
Speaker 1: cats that had radio callers on them, and they all

1522
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:44,519
Speaker 1: three had their own was a it was a female

1523
01:24:44,560 --> 01:24:45,960
Speaker 1: on the right, a male in the middle, and a

1524
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:50,080
Speaker 1: male on the left. And uh, the one in the

1525
01:24:50,120 --> 01:24:53,719
Speaker 1: middle was a big dominant tom so you would suspect

1526
01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:56,120
Speaker 1: that he was occupying the best little piece of country there, right,

1527
01:24:56,720 --> 01:25:00,800
Speaker 1: And they all three had fairly small home range. UM

1528
01:25:01,080 --> 01:25:03,800
Speaker 1: my estimate from you know, and I don't I don't

1529
01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:05,880
Speaker 1: have access to the GPS data. I just I just

1530
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:08,280
Speaker 1: kind of get to get whatever I can from the

1531
01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:11,240
Speaker 1: boologists I'm working for down there in Arizona. Um. But

1532
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:14,360
Speaker 1: just looking at the screenshots and stuff, Let's say each

1533
01:25:14,360 --> 01:25:17,559
Speaker 1: one of those bobcats had roughly a three mile by

1534
01:25:17,640 --> 01:25:20,080
Speaker 1: three miles square piece of country that they occupied. Fairly

1535
01:25:20,120 --> 01:25:22,800
Speaker 1: small home range compared to what I would expect up

1536
01:25:22,840 --> 01:25:26,639
Speaker 1: here in Montana. Let's say, um, meaning they had everything

1537
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:35,599
Speaker 1: they needed right there, right, food three yeah, food, food, shelter, um, escape,

1538
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:38,519
Speaker 1: you know, everything they wanted right resources. The one in

1539
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:43,040
Speaker 1: the middle died the other two. I showed you that.

1540
01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:48,040
Speaker 1: Um it was wearing a collar. Yeah, I was wearing

1541
01:25:48,040 --> 01:25:49,599
Speaker 1: a collar. Yeah. You don't want to tell me how

1542
01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:53,240
Speaker 1: it died. Uh. It got caught in a foothold trap

1543
01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:57,559
Speaker 1: and a lion came and ate it. Oh yeah, line

1544
01:25:57,680 --> 01:26:01,360
Speaker 1: ate it before noon that morning. Yeah, just hollow the

1545
01:26:01,360 --> 01:26:05,519
Speaker 1: whole bailly out. You can. You can tell the difference, um,

1546
01:26:05,800 --> 01:26:09,080
Speaker 1: between lion kills and coyote kills and stuff. It's pretty easy.

1547
01:26:09,200 --> 01:26:11,880
Speaker 1: So trapper got it, but a lion got it. Yeah, yeah,

1548
01:26:11,880 --> 01:26:14,400
Speaker 1: it got killed in a trap. Well, just within a

1549
01:26:14,479 --> 01:26:16,960
Speaker 1: few weeks that the two cats on the other two

1550
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:22,080
Speaker 1: checkerboard squares just immediately started venturing into his country, and

1551
01:26:22,120 --> 01:26:25,280
Speaker 1: then within just a few months they absorbed it and

1552
01:26:25,400 --> 01:26:28,320
Speaker 1: just took it over. And now they have each one

1553
01:26:28,360 --> 01:26:30,040
Speaker 1: of those two cats has a bigger home range, and

1554
01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:32,000
Speaker 1: they spend more time in his country than they do

1555
01:26:32,080 --> 01:26:34,320
Speaker 1: in their owns from what I've seen so far. And

1556
01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:36,920
Speaker 1: you always to hear that stuff, like an animal having

1557
01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:39,840
Speaker 1: its territory. But it's just amazing. We have another cat

1558
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:42,760
Speaker 1: right now that the Bolois was sending me some screenshots on.

1559
01:26:42,840 --> 01:26:46,560
Speaker 1: He was a young male that we call her last December,

1560
01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:49,439
Speaker 1: and he lived in one spot, had a nice little

1561
01:26:49,479 --> 01:26:50,960
Speaker 1: home range, looked like he was making a good life

1562
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:54,600
Speaker 1: for himself. Um, and then one day in June he

1563
01:26:54,720 --> 01:26:59,680
Speaker 1: just took off, and he took off and went I

1564
01:26:59,720 --> 01:27:02,519
Speaker 1: would have to estimate some forty miles or so north,

1565
01:27:03,120 --> 01:27:05,960
Speaker 1: just almost on a straight line, spend a day or

1566
01:27:05,960 --> 01:27:07,840
Speaker 1: two up there, turned around and came all the way

1567
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:10,519
Speaker 1: back down along that same line, and then turned west

1568
01:27:10,760 --> 01:27:12,800
Speaker 1: and went across a bunch of juniper country, come down

1569
01:27:12,880 --> 01:27:15,240
Speaker 1: into a valley, went up and behind a town, then

1570
01:27:15,280 --> 01:27:20,000
Speaker 1: took off headed west again and was hanging out of there,

1571
01:27:20,200 --> 01:27:22,200
Speaker 1: hanging out over there for a month or two. And

1572
01:27:22,280 --> 01:27:25,840
Speaker 1: then now the latest, um, the latest little screenshot that

1573
01:27:25,920 --> 01:27:28,800
Speaker 1: the biologist shared with me, he is now occupying a

1574
01:27:28,880 --> 01:27:31,320
Speaker 1: piece of country that we had a mail that was

1575
01:27:31,400 --> 01:27:34,200
Speaker 1: callered that got shot that we knew his home range

1576
01:27:34,200 --> 01:27:36,559
Speaker 1: pretty well. And it looks to me like he's setting

1577
01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:39,599
Speaker 1: up to take over that Tom's entire piece of country.

1578
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:41,680
Speaker 1: And now that he's gone, so he went on a

1579
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:45,560
Speaker 1: big wander and found like a sweet spot that you

1580
01:27:45,680 --> 01:27:48,080
Speaker 1: know had been vacated and that I know for sure

1581
01:27:48,200 --> 01:27:51,559
Speaker 1: is vacated. Yeah, yeah, it's it's pretty cool stuff. It's

1582
01:27:51,560 --> 01:27:54,479
Speaker 1: pretty neat stuff. How did that transition go for you?

1583
01:27:54,640 --> 01:27:57,960
Speaker 1: Where you're doing? You're doing bobcats as a as a

1584
01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:02,760
Speaker 1: fur harvester, so you really learned how to catch them.

1585
01:28:03,240 --> 01:28:05,280
Speaker 1: What was the first time a researcher called you up?

1586
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:08,880
Speaker 1: I think it was probably just a slow thing. You know.

1587
01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:12,640
Speaker 1: I started selling the products to all sorts of researchers

1588
01:28:12,640 --> 01:28:16,559
Speaker 1: all over the place. Um, I guess the first project

1589
01:28:16,640 --> 01:28:18,640
Speaker 1: I worked on was when I was with U. S.

1590
01:28:18,680 --> 01:28:20,360
Speaker 1: D A. I did some seasonal work for a few

1591
01:28:20,439 --> 01:28:23,439
Speaker 1: years doing kyote work, and uh they sent me down

1592
01:28:23,479 --> 01:28:25,960
Speaker 1: to help a grad student catch some gray squirrels and

1593
01:28:25,960 --> 01:28:30,280
Speaker 1: put collars on them. Um. And then uh, then I

1594
01:28:30,840 --> 01:28:33,400
Speaker 1: I I went out on a couple of private researchers

1595
01:28:33,479 --> 01:28:38,400
Speaker 1: projects just to help him out, you know. Um oh, California, California.

1596
01:28:38,439 --> 01:28:41,320
Speaker 1: At one point there was a local biologists on the

1597
01:28:41,400 --> 01:28:43,280
Speaker 1: eastern part of the state that was trying to he

1598
01:28:43,400 --> 01:28:45,840
Speaker 1: was actually trying to get ahead of what he saw

1599
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:47,960
Speaker 1: coming down the road. Like this would have been in

1600
01:28:48,000 --> 01:28:52,160
Speaker 1: about two thousand nine or tennis before we lost everything.

1601
01:28:52,280 --> 01:28:53,479
Speaker 1: He was trying to get ahead of it, and he

1602
01:28:53,560 --> 01:28:56,120
Speaker 1: was trying to be proactive and actually do a population

1603
01:28:56,160 --> 01:28:59,080
Speaker 1: study in the eastern part of the state. And U

1604
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:02,600
Speaker 1: uh he was you know, getting callers put out and

1605
01:29:02,600 --> 01:29:04,479
Speaker 1: stuff like that. He I think he probably got pr

1606
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:07,439
Speaker 1: money for it and and was doing a study. Um.

1607
01:29:07,800 --> 01:29:10,680
Speaker 1: He since moved on, But I got to go up

1608
01:29:10,720 --> 01:29:13,280
Speaker 1: there and I kind of like did a school for

1609
01:29:13,360 --> 01:29:16,120
Speaker 1: their trapper And then they were struggling, of course, and

1610
01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:18,040
Speaker 1: I went out and helped him a little bit. It

1611
01:29:18,160 --> 01:29:20,240
Speaker 1: was just kind of slowly and then you know, I

1612
01:29:20,320 --> 01:29:22,759
Speaker 1: mean I had a pretty good reputation in Arizona. Everybody

1613
01:29:22,840 --> 01:29:25,160
Speaker 1: knew who I was. I pretty much the only one

1614
01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:28,960
Speaker 1: selling all the stuff. And um, so when the biologists,

1615
01:29:30,080 --> 01:29:33,160
Speaker 1: I think it was like two thousand eighteen, uh, some

1616
01:29:33,280 --> 01:29:36,000
Speaker 1: of the animal welfare group started talking about pushing for

1617
01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:40,839
Speaker 1: a ban on lying in bobcat hunting and trapping in Arizona.

1618
01:29:41,479 --> 01:29:44,680
Speaker 1: And uh, like I was a director one of the

1619
01:29:44,840 --> 01:29:48,200
Speaker 1: higher ups that game at fish said to the furbear biologists,

1620
01:29:48,560 --> 01:29:51,519
Speaker 1: large carnivore lady that I worked for, uh say, hey,

1621
01:29:51,560 --> 01:29:52,760
Speaker 1: what are we gonna do about this? You know, we

1622
01:29:52,840 --> 01:29:55,040
Speaker 1: got enough data to to fight these people off? And

1623
01:29:55,080 --> 01:29:57,479
Speaker 1: she said, well, you know, there's never enough data. She said,

1624
01:29:57,479 --> 01:30:00,760
Speaker 1: I got this idea for this population study and laid

1625
01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:04,120
Speaker 1: on me, you know, and and here, uh, two and

1626
01:30:04,160 --> 01:30:06,040
Speaker 1: a half years later, it's I think it's the number

1627
01:30:06,080 --> 01:30:08,320
Speaker 1: one thing that game official is doing right now in Arizona.

1628
01:30:08,640 --> 01:30:12,280
Speaker 1: Their radio caller and bobcats and lions all over the state. Um.

1629
01:30:12,640 --> 01:30:15,599
Speaker 1: But when she you know, started getting you know, it's

1630
01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:20,559
Speaker 1: all pr money right um. And when she started putting

1631
01:30:20,560 --> 01:30:23,519
Speaker 1: that all together, she knew right away. She said, there's

1632
01:30:23,560 --> 01:30:25,120
Speaker 1: only two guys that I want to work with as

1633
01:30:25,400 --> 01:30:27,559
Speaker 1: the trappers. That's That's why I really respect the most

1634
01:30:27,640 --> 01:30:30,519
Speaker 1: with her because so many these other agencies they try

1635
01:30:30,560 --> 01:30:33,160
Speaker 1: to do with volunteer help, volunteer trappers, or they try

1636
01:30:33,160 --> 01:30:34,879
Speaker 1: to do it in the house, you know, because he's bologists.

1637
01:30:34,920 --> 01:30:37,080
Speaker 1: They spend you know, so many years in college, right

1638
01:30:37,160 --> 01:30:39,200
Speaker 1: they want to work with wildlife, and they find that

1639
01:30:39,240 --> 01:30:41,120
Speaker 1: they're in the office all the time, right, so they

1640
01:30:41,160 --> 01:30:43,240
Speaker 1: have a hard time giving up their field work. So

1641
01:30:43,320 --> 01:30:46,240
Speaker 1: then they try to do uh, you know, the trapping

1642
01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:49,000
Speaker 1: and stuff themselves. But that's why I have so much

1643
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:50,479
Speaker 1: respect for the way our zone is doing it, because

1644
01:30:50,479 --> 01:30:53,960
Speaker 1: they hired too, you know, two confident trappers to go

1645
01:30:54,040 --> 01:30:56,559
Speaker 1: out and do the catching, you know, and let them

1646
01:30:56,640 --> 01:31:00,240
Speaker 1: do the science stuff. So uh So, so when they

1647
01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:02,040
Speaker 1: when they put that all together a couple of years ago,

1648
01:31:02,560 --> 01:31:03,920
Speaker 1: she called me and said, well, hey, you know, what

1649
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:06,840
Speaker 1: do you do in this winter? And so that's I

1650
01:31:06,920 --> 01:31:08,840
Speaker 1: think we just had our third capture season right now.

1651
01:31:09,520 --> 01:31:12,080
Speaker 1: How many have you gotten collegs on? Uh So, I

1652
01:31:12,160 --> 01:31:14,080
Speaker 1: was lucky enough to be there to catch number one

1653
01:31:14,160 --> 01:31:17,360
Speaker 1: hundred for the State of Arizona. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,

1654
01:31:17,400 --> 01:31:21,400
Speaker 1: and then uh uh so one hundred deployments there's been

1655
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:25,040
Speaker 1: I think somewhere in the neighborhood of thirty mortalities. Yeah,

1656
01:31:25,080 --> 01:31:29,200
Speaker 1: what what's where do you find is killing them besides people? Uh,

1657
01:31:29,320 --> 01:31:32,879
Speaker 1: you know, the biggest one, so I think the biggest category.

1658
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:36,160
Speaker 1: And and I uh so understand I'm not talking for

1659
01:31:36,280 --> 01:31:39,439
Speaker 1: Arizona game fish. I'm just repeating some of the things

1660
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:42,400
Speaker 1: that I see in uh some of what I know.

1661
01:31:42,560 --> 01:31:45,320
Speaker 1: You know, um, so predation I think is probably the

1662
01:31:45,360 --> 01:31:48,280
Speaker 1: biggest one so far for mortalities. And of that, the

1663
01:31:48,560 --> 01:31:51,360
Speaker 1: lions are really killing the heck out of them things. Um,

1664
01:31:52,200 --> 01:31:54,840
Speaker 1: I don't know there's been maybe I don't know about

1665
01:31:54,840 --> 01:31:58,920
Speaker 1: a dozer, so, uh, don't quote me on that. There's

1666
01:31:59,720 --> 01:32:04,560
Speaker 1: there's in around dozeners so predation mortalities, um and a

1667
01:32:04,640 --> 01:32:06,720
Speaker 1: lot of those are lions. I had two lines up

1668
01:32:06,720 --> 01:32:10,000
Speaker 1: on this one, this one ranch like collared, and three

1669
01:32:10,040 --> 01:32:11,880
Speaker 1: months later they were both dead. From what I would

1670
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:15,519
Speaker 1: expect me the same lion. Yeah, two lions. Excuse me?

1671
01:32:15,640 --> 01:32:20,200
Speaker 1: Did I Are the lions killing them to eat them

1672
01:32:20,280 --> 01:32:24,040
Speaker 1: or a competition thing? Yeah, I think it's all the above.

1673
01:32:24,280 --> 01:32:27,680
Speaker 1: But I think lions just lions just wander around the

1674
01:32:27,720 --> 01:32:32,800
Speaker 1: country wanting to kill stuff. That's just how they are. Yeah,

1675
01:32:32,880 --> 01:32:34,840
Speaker 1: we saw a little bit of that. The other day

1676
01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:39,560
Speaker 1: a friend of ours another uh a sound engineer that

1677
01:32:39,640 --> 01:32:43,280
Speaker 1: works here, had found a lion tracked me he's checking

1678
01:32:43,439 --> 01:32:47,559
Speaker 1: his Martin traps. So he called me and another friend

1679
01:32:47,600 --> 01:32:49,559
Speaker 1: of ours with hounds. We went up there and run

1680
01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:53,200
Speaker 1: the cat. And as we're we're working sorting out through

1681
01:32:53,240 --> 01:32:57,320
Speaker 1: the tracks, first we found some kills, a couple of

1682
01:32:57,360 --> 01:33:00,240
Speaker 1: carcasses of the lions which had on top off of

1683
01:33:00,280 --> 01:33:03,720
Speaker 1: it laying there fresh, not even rig a mortist yet.

1684
01:33:04,280 --> 01:33:07,880
Speaker 1: It was a bobcat with no head. Is that right? Yeah?

1685
01:33:07,960 --> 01:33:10,439
Speaker 1: I mean that bobcat eating his kill. Yeah. And so

1686
01:33:10,760 --> 01:33:13,000
Speaker 1: we threw that in the truck, thinking like, oh sweet

1687
01:33:13,040 --> 01:33:16,360
Speaker 1: bonus bobcat, and a couple of hundred yards down the trail,

1688
01:33:16,520 --> 01:33:19,800
Speaker 1: we we like, see where this lion has been dragging something,

1689
01:33:19,880 --> 01:33:22,639
Speaker 1: to see the blood trail and cash underneath the trees,

1690
01:33:22,680 --> 01:33:28,960
Speaker 1: the whole kyote. Serious. See, that's something I didn't even know.

1691
01:33:29,200 --> 01:33:31,599
Speaker 1: Like three years ago, a buddy of mine told me, hey,

1692
01:33:31,680 --> 01:33:33,400
Speaker 1: my brother just shot a lion. And he said he

1693
01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:36,160
Speaker 1: was driving down the road and seeing a lion looking

1694
01:33:36,160 --> 01:33:37,840
Speaker 1: at him over the bushes. He got out and shot

1695
01:33:37,880 --> 01:33:40,040
Speaker 1: it and went over there was eating a coyote, and

1696
01:33:40,720 --> 01:33:43,200
Speaker 1: I said to uh, I said, my buddy, what do

1697
01:33:43,240 --> 01:33:46,120
Speaker 1: you mean he should eating a coyote? And I had

1698
01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:49,000
Speaker 1: to call a couple of houndsman buddies of mine, like

1699
01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:52,360
Speaker 1: lion expert guys like lions eat coyotes. So yeah, they

1700
01:33:52,439 --> 01:33:54,880
Speaker 1: chased the hell out them things eat him. We're on

1701
01:33:54,960 --> 01:33:56,559
Speaker 1: a track and saw where it got a red fox

1702
01:33:56,640 --> 01:34:00,439
Speaker 1: one time, and a front of my said he saw

1703
01:34:00,479 --> 01:34:07,120
Speaker 1: where gotta Floyd found where they've killed tortoises, really just

1704
01:34:07,200 --> 01:34:09,240
Speaker 1: killing everything they come. He said, they got They got it,

1705
01:34:09,320 --> 01:34:10,880
Speaker 1: he said when he sees it. He sees it on

1706
01:34:10,960 --> 01:34:13,280
Speaker 1: ocasi and they pull the I think it's Floyd. Sorry

1707
01:34:13,320 --> 01:34:15,320
Speaker 1: this they pull the bottom they pull the bottom shell

1708
01:34:15,479 --> 01:34:18,760
Speaker 1: right off. And it's similar to how they kill a porcupine.

1709
01:34:19,240 --> 01:34:21,320
Speaker 1: If you've ever run across a porcupine was killed by

1710
01:34:21,320 --> 01:34:24,640
Speaker 1: a lion, it reminds me, gives me an image in

1711
01:34:24,680 --> 01:34:27,360
Speaker 1: my mind of like a cartoon about of like that

1712
01:34:27,479 --> 01:34:30,599
Speaker 1: lion with one single claw, you know, like a scalpel

1713
01:34:30,640 --> 01:34:32,320
Speaker 1: and zipping the belly. But that's what it looks like.

1714
01:34:32,439 --> 01:34:35,280
Speaker 1: They like, like from the belly side, they cut it open,

1715
01:34:36,080 --> 01:34:38,599
Speaker 1: I assume, with their claw and then spread it apart

1716
01:34:38,840 --> 01:34:41,680
Speaker 1: and just hollowed out. You know, their tongues have those

1717
01:34:41,720 --> 01:34:43,960
Speaker 1: little hooks on their tongues. They can just lick meat,

1718
01:34:44,040 --> 01:34:47,280
Speaker 1: rath bone and everything. But that's three things happen, or

1719
01:34:47,520 --> 01:34:50,320
Speaker 1: I've seen three different things. When we investigate the little

1720
01:34:50,320 --> 01:34:54,160
Speaker 1: bit I've gotten to do, investigate the mortality locations. Um,

1721
01:34:55,040 --> 01:34:57,560
Speaker 1: a bobcat will either just bite a or excuse me

1722
01:34:57,640 --> 01:34:59,760
Speaker 1: a line or either just bite a bobcat's head and

1723
01:35:00,080 --> 01:35:04,280
Speaker 1: leave it they're dead um, or they'll crunch his head

1724
01:35:04,600 --> 01:35:06,840
Speaker 1: and then eat his guts out. But it's it's all

1725
01:35:06,960 --> 01:35:10,679
Speaker 1: very clinical, you know, when a coyote kills a bobcat.

1726
01:35:11,040 --> 01:35:12,960
Speaker 1: We I got to go on one of those. We

1727
01:35:13,000 --> 01:35:15,000
Speaker 1: had a mortality one morning. We were trapping this year,

1728
01:35:15,000 --> 01:35:18,400
Speaker 1: and I hiked across this little valley and with the

1729
01:35:19,160 --> 01:35:22,040
Speaker 1: with the GPS location when it went into mortality, found

1730
01:35:22,040 --> 01:35:24,840
Speaker 1: the bobcat there. And it was what I read in

1731
01:35:24,920 --> 01:35:27,479
Speaker 1: the ground was that this bobcat had gotten caught a

1732
01:35:27,560 --> 01:35:30,760
Speaker 1: little bit in the open, had gotten chased towards a tree.

1733
01:35:30,760 --> 01:35:32,320
Speaker 1: Why I didn't go up the juniper tree, I do

1734
01:35:32,439 --> 01:35:34,120
Speaker 1: not know, but I was picturing it just kind of

1735
01:35:34,160 --> 01:35:36,200
Speaker 1: backing up against the tree, like if you chased it

1736
01:35:36,240 --> 01:35:38,559
Speaker 1: with hounds and you just kind of you know, shelved

1737
01:35:38,640 --> 01:35:41,400
Speaker 1: up there and um, but he like decided that's where

1738
01:35:41,400 --> 01:35:43,280
Speaker 1: he's going to make his stand, is what I suspected.

1739
01:35:43,439 --> 01:35:45,640
Speaker 1: And there's a pile of fur right there where the

1740
01:35:45,680 --> 01:35:47,840
Speaker 1: coyotes got him. And then there's you know, a thirty

1741
01:35:47,880 --> 01:35:50,320
Speaker 1: yard trail where the coyotes are pulling on him and pulled,

1742
01:35:50,400 --> 01:35:53,120
Speaker 1: ripping for off and just left his carcass ly in there.

1743
01:35:53,160 --> 01:35:55,639
Speaker 1: But when a bob when a lion eats the bobcat,

1744
01:35:57,000 --> 01:36:00,280
Speaker 1: most of the time there was just this skin, uh

1745
01:36:00,680 --> 01:36:05,040
Speaker 1: laying there with bone fragments from the head um and

1746
01:36:05,479 --> 01:36:10,040
Speaker 1: like like clinically, like it reminds me of that Hannibal

1747
01:36:10,040 --> 01:36:12,240
Speaker 1: electro movie or something like how did that lion eat

1748
01:36:12,960 --> 01:36:15,240
Speaker 1: everything but the skin in fur? You know, like how

1749
01:36:15,280 --> 01:36:17,600
Speaker 1: are you so good at eating stuff? And there's just

1750
01:36:17,920 --> 01:36:19,840
Speaker 1: there's just a collar laying there and it's all it's

1751
01:36:19,880 --> 01:36:21,640
Speaker 1: all in a little three or four ft circle. And

1752
01:36:21,720 --> 01:36:23,800
Speaker 1: sometimes it's right underneath of a tree. And if you

1753
01:36:23,920 --> 01:36:25,560
Speaker 1: examine the tree close enough, you can see who the

1754
01:36:25,560 --> 01:36:27,479
Speaker 1: lion got up in there and ripped the bobcat out,

1755
01:36:27,680 --> 01:36:30,599
Speaker 1: because you know, uh, that bobcat there got killed here

1756
01:36:30,640 --> 01:36:32,960
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago. He was at the base

1757
01:36:33,000 --> 01:36:34,080
Speaker 1: of a tree. You know, why don't you just go

1758
01:36:34,200 --> 01:36:35,760
Speaker 1: up the tree and just hang out there until the

1759
01:36:35,800 --> 01:36:38,559
Speaker 1: caylots gook on? You know, I don't know, same same

1760
01:36:39,040 --> 01:36:41,800
Speaker 1: same question I have with the bobcat. I went and

1761
01:36:41,840 --> 01:36:43,880
Speaker 1: picked up off the railroad tracks, got cut clean too.

1762
01:36:44,800 --> 01:36:47,240
Speaker 1: I run over by a train, one of the with

1763
01:36:47,320 --> 01:36:48,599
Speaker 1: a color and how like, how do you not get

1764
01:36:48,640 --> 01:36:49,920
Speaker 1: out of the way of that train? You know, I

1765
01:36:49,960 --> 01:36:55,800
Speaker 1: don't know there's a bobcat. Yeah, trains not swerving. I

1766
01:36:55,880 --> 01:36:58,160
Speaker 1: have no idea. The railroad people were working found and

1767
01:36:58,280 --> 01:37:01,040
Speaker 1: laying there dead on the tracks, and I went out

1768
01:37:01,040 --> 01:37:02,479
Speaker 1: there to pick it up and it was just cut

1769
01:37:02,560 --> 01:37:05,120
Speaker 1: square in two. I'm surprised to hear that a bob

1770
01:37:05,280 --> 01:37:08,720
Speaker 1: can't can't I guess at least just mono imano take

1771
01:37:08,800 --> 01:37:12,360
Speaker 1: on a coyote. It might have been more than one

1772
01:37:12,479 --> 01:37:16,840
Speaker 1: that I would say, it was definitely probably more than one. Yeah,

1773
01:37:17,280 --> 01:37:20,120
Speaker 1: who would win in a one on one tussle a

1774
01:37:20,200 --> 01:37:23,519
Speaker 1: big tom or or a coyote? Yani's big old pounder

1775
01:37:23,920 --> 01:37:27,240
Speaker 1: and a kyote. Well, if the if the bobcat had

1776
01:37:27,280 --> 01:37:29,000
Speaker 1: one foot in a trap, you'd have a you'd have

1777
01:37:29,040 --> 01:37:33,200
Speaker 1: a dead bobcat. Yeah. Um, I'm sure they You have

1778
01:37:33,280 --> 01:37:36,519
Speaker 1: to imagine they run into single single shots from time

1779
01:37:36,520 --> 01:37:39,880
Speaker 1: to time, and probably that's that's the one thing, you know,

1780
01:37:39,960 --> 01:37:42,160
Speaker 1: the big Tom's if you look at the little bit

1781
01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:44,600
Speaker 1: of tracking data that I get to look at, you know,

1782
01:37:44,680 --> 01:37:47,479
Speaker 1: the Tom's the tom has definitely spent way more time

1783
01:37:47,520 --> 01:37:49,800
Speaker 1: in the open country. You know, they'll move there. There's

1784
01:37:49,800 --> 01:37:51,680
Speaker 1: still a structure related animal. They always want to be

1785
01:37:51,720 --> 01:37:54,080
Speaker 1: by structure, but they'll move from one piece of structure

1786
01:37:54,080 --> 01:37:58,360
Speaker 1: across some opening, whereas the females and the younger cats

1787
01:37:58,400 --> 01:38:01,760
Speaker 1: are just just almost always stands structure. They always be safe,

1788
01:38:01,840 --> 01:38:05,160
Speaker 1: you know. And that's how so later in this season, Um,

1789
01:38:06,479 --> 01:38:09,160
Speaker 1: you know those big tom show up like use you're

1790
01:38:09,160 --> 01:38:11,000
Speaker 1: trapping foothills and stuff like that a lot of times.

1791
01:38:11,240 --> 01:38:14,040
Speaker 1: Well then you start catching them big Tom's in January February.

1792
01:38:14,040 --> 01:38:16,960
Speaker 1: It's because they were they were down running with the coyotes. Uh.

1793
01:38:17,200 --> 01:38:19,400
Speaker 1: And then they'll come up into the trees to find

1794
01:38:19,880 --> 01:38:22,200
Speaker 1: find a woman. You know. But you were talking about

1795
01:38:22,280 --> 01:38:25,880
Speaker 1: like how fast they discover that their neighbors gone. Uh,

1796
01:38:26,320 --> 01:38:29,840
Speaker 1: that's that's like my most recent thing that's keeping me

1797
01:38:30,040 --> 01:38:33,200
Speaker 1: engaged in interested in trying to learn about bobcats more

1798
01:38:33,240 --> 01:38:35,640
Speaker 1: and more, as is how they figure that out, how

1799
01:38:35,680 --> 01:38:38,160
Speaker 1: they established those territories, Like what are all the different

1800
01:38:38,160 --> 01:38:42,120
Speaker 1: ways that they're leaving sent down that creates such you know,

1801
01:38:42,560 --> 01:38:46,320
Speaker 1: like defined barriers between one cat and another, you know,

1802
01:38:47,040 --> 01:38:49,799
Speaker 1: and uh, and some of those odors that are present

1803
01:38:50,080 --> 01:38:53,160
Speaker 1: in you know, they come from their glands. You know,

1804
01:38:53,200 --> 01:38:55,280
Speaker 1: they're just a big giant gland. They got gland of

1805
01:38:55,400 --> 01:38:58,240
Speaker 1: forehead behind their ears and their arms and there, you know,

1806
01:38:58,320 --> 01:39:01,120
Speaker 1: their anal glands. They're feet pads. You know, they just

1807
01:39:01,720 --> 01:39:04,800
Speaker 1: they can make smell like bobcats smell out of all

1808
01:39:05,000 --> 01:39:07,559
Speaker 1: their whole body. But uh, you know, when they're making

1809
01:39:07,560 --> 01:39:10,160
Speaker 1: them scratches, they'll scratch their back feet to their front feet.

1810
01:39:10,840 --> 01:39:13,800
Speaker 1: They're they're putting odor down. When they're peeing, they're putting

1811
01:39:13,840 --> 01:39:17,360
Speaker 1: oer down. When they're scratching a post, they're putting oer down.

1812
01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:20,760
Speaker 1: And some of those odors I'm starting to learn last

1813
01:39:20,840 --> 01:39:24,560
Speaker 1: a pretty short amount of time, you know, undetectable to

1814
01:39:24,760 --> 01:39:30,760
Speaker 1: us as humans. But you know bobcats, you know, uh, bobcats.

1815
01:39:31,160 --> 01:39:33,840
Speaker 1: If you know old old old trappers, you know, uh,

1816
01:39:33,840 --> 01:39:35,839
Speaker 1: a lot. You know, there was a rap on bobcats.

1817
01:39:35,840 --> 01:39:37,639
Speaker 1: They got a cold nose. They call them a cold nose.

1818
01:39:37,680 --> 01:39:39,920
Speaker 1: You know, they don't compared to a kyo, you know.

1819
01:39:40,520 --> 01:39:42,919
Speaker 1: But the longer I do this, the more I respect

1820
01:39:43,200 --> 01:39:46,040
Speaker 1: and admire the the ability of a bobcat to smell,

1821
01:39:46,640 --> 01:39:49,000
Speaker 1: especially watch them on trail camera when they come to

1822
01:39:49,000 --> 01:39:51,559
Speaker 1: your cage trap. They literally put their nose on every

1823
01:39:51,720 --> 01:39:56,479
Speaker 1: single thing. Yeah, and and they can smell so much

1824
01:39:56,560 --> 01:40:00,280
Speaker 1: better than I. You know, ever ever really thought if

1825
01:40:00,320 --> 01:40:02,200
Speaker 1: you hadn't got interested in bobcasts, what do you think

1826
01:40:02,200 --> 01:40:06,080
Speaker 1: you would have done your life? Golly, I don't know.

1827
01:40:07,080 --> 01:40:08,960
Speaker 1: You think you'd have got all obsessed with something different?

1828
01:40:11,040 --> 01:40:14,800
Speaker 1: That's a toughie. I mean, I mean I imagine by

1829
01:40:15,160 --> 01:40:17,760
Speaker 1: nature I would have, but like you were destined to

1830
01:40:17,800 --> 01:40:20,200
Speaker 1: get obsessed with something. That's what I always wondering about people,

1831
01:40:21,280 --> 01:40:23,760
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, like if if you spend your

1832
01:40:23,800 --> 01:40:26,519
Speaker 1: whole energy on one thing and that thing was an absence,

1833
01:40:26,520 --> 01:40:28,800
Speaker 1: would you have been to some like slack jaw TV

1834
01:40:28,960 --> 01:40:31,280
Speaker 1: watcher or would you been all obsessed with some the

1835
01:40:31,400 --> 01:40:34,839
Speaker 1: next like playing b Yeah. I don't know, I always

1836
01:40:35,280 --> 01:40:38,800
Speaker 1: I always, uh, I know, as a construction worker, all

1837
01:40:38,840 --> 01:40:40,439
Speaker 1: those years. You know. It's it's one of those if

1838
01:40:40,760 --> 01:40:42,760
Speaker 1: if you don't pick your future, your future picks you

1839
01:40:42,960 --> 01:40:44,920
Speaker 1: kind of thing, you know. And uh, you know, I

1840
01:40:44,960 --> 01:40:47,200
Speaker 1: started making good money in high school and and being

1841
01:40:47,280 --> 01:40:51,280
Speaker 1: in construction you know, lended itself to the talents already had,

1842
01:40:51,320 --> 01:40:54,639
Speaker 1: you know. Um, and I wasn't you know. I always

1843
01:40:54,680 --> 01:40:56,559
Speaker 1: always wish that I was good at school. I always

1844
01:40:56,560 --> 01:40:57,960
Speaker 1: wanted to go to college and to like that, but

1845
01:40:58,080 --> 01:41:01,160
Speaker 1: just never, I'm just just I just couldn't stay. I

1846
01:41:01,160 --> 01:41:04,160
Speaker 1: couldn't do it. Uh So, how far did you get

1847
01:41:04,200 --> 01:41:06,320
Speaker 1: in college? Oh? Gosh, I did? I didn't. I I

1848
01:41:06,560 --> 01:41:09,000
Speaker 1: just took you know, community college courses and stuff. The

1849
01:41:09,040 --> 01:41:10,880
Speaker 1: only ones I ever did any good and were the

1850
01:41:10,960 --> 01:41:13,519
Speaker 1: ones that I stuff I cared about, like geology and stuff,

1851
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:19,400
Speaker 1: you know, or electrical classes and stuff. Um. But yeah,

1852
01:41:19,600 --> 01:41:22,519
Speaker 1: I always remember, you know, my stepdad was a was

1853
01:41:22,600 --> 01:41:25,160
Speaker 1: a cop. He was chief police stuff, and he he

1854
01:41:25,200 --> 01:41:28,360
Speaker 1: would always come home in a suit and uh and

1855
01:41:28,600 --> 01:41:30,439
Speaker 1: nice shoes and stuff, and he would put his work

1856
01:41:30,479 --> 01:41:34,120
Speaker 1: boots on when he got home. Well, he'd put his

1857
01:41:34,160 --> 01:41:36,439
Speaker 1: work boots on to do work. And I always thought,

1858
01:41:36,520 --> 01:41:39,280
Speaker 1: all those years doing construction, always that like I'm the

1859
01:41:39,360 --> 01:41:41,680
Speaker 1: exact opposite. You know, I wouldn't mind going to work

1860
01:41:41,720 --> 01:41:44,439
Speaker 1: in nice clothes, you know, and and the work clothes

1861
01:41:44,479 --> 01:41:48,760
Speaker 1: are for when you get home, you like. I don't

1862
01:41:48,760 --> 01:41:50,439
Speaker 1: know what I would have done if I wasn't into this.

1863
01:41:50,600 --> 01:41:55,680
Speaker 1: I don't know how long you've been married, nineteen years? Yeah, well,

1864
01:41:55,720 --> 01:41:58,400
Speaker 1: I mean there was one brief a couple of years

1865
01:41:58,400 --> 01:42:03,960
Speaker 1: marriage when I was younger. Um, I remember leaving that gal. No, no, no, no,

1866
01:42:04,160 --> 01:42:07,639
Speaker 1: I remember leaving that gal on the the apartment couch

1867
01:42:07,760 --> 01:42:10,479
Speaker 1: on Christmas Eve to go out bobcat handing at night

1868
01:42:10,560 --> 01:42:13,800
Speaker 1: with my buddy. Uh. I don't know. I don't know

1869
01:42:13,800 --> 01:42:14,880
Speaker 1: what's wrong with that woman. I don't know. Want you

1870
01:42:14,920 --> 01:42:20,120
Speaker 1: to understand we're only married a couple of years and

1871
01:42:21,680 --> 01:42:23,800
Speaker 1: no kids luckily, and that might have something to do

1872
01:42:23,880 --> 01:42:28,360
Speaker 1: with it. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, she didn't,

1873
01:42:29,439 --> 01:42:33,200
Speaker 1: she had nothing, She wasn't against it, but you know,

1874
01:42:33,280 --> 01:42:38,640
Speaker 1: I just wasn't. The way it end up working out

1875
01:42:38,680 --> 01:42:41,200
Speaker 1: for me, and getting older, getting married older in life,

1876
01:42:41,240 --> 01:42:43,800
Speaker 1: having kids, older in life, it was to me so

1877
01:42:43,920 --> 01:42:45,920
Speaker 1: much better than my younger friends. They got married early

1878
01:42:45,960 --> 01:42:48,200
Speaker 1: and they had kids because they were still they were

1879
01:42:48,280 --> 01:42:51,120
Speaker 1: constantly fighting, you know, every day, wanting to have their

1880
01:42:51,160 --> 01:42:54,559
Speaker 1: own personal life, you know, fun life, you know, being

1881
01:42:54,600 --> 01:42:56,400
Speaker 1: tied down with these kids and being married. And when

1882
01:42:56,400 --> 01:42:58,600
Speaker 1: I got married older in life, I think it was

1883
01:42:58,640 --> 01:43:02,320
Speaker 1: in early forties, I was just I was ready. I

1884
01:43:02,439 --> 01:43:03,880
Speaker 1: was ready for that to be the thing I was

1885
01:43:03,920 --> 01:43:06,160
Speaker 1: gonna do, have kids and be married. I was pretty

1886
01:43:06,200 --> 01:43:08,920
Speaker 1: much sick of having fun by the time I had kids. Yeah,

1887
01:43:10,400 --> 01:43:12,320
Speaker 1: I don't seems like you have quite a bit of fun. No, No,

1888
01:43:12,400 --> 01:43:14,000
Speaker 1: I don't mean that kind of fun. I mean like

1889
01:43:14,200 --> 01:43:18,360
Speaker 1: having whatever like that. Yeah, I was, well, I was

1890
01:43:18,439 --> 01:43:20,479
Speaker 1: never a party here. I mean, not that kind of fun.

1891
01:43:20,520 --> 01:43:23,240
Speaker 1: The nighttime fun. I was never a party of Heck,

1892
01:43:23,320 --> 01:43:26,080
Speaker 1: me and Jay would ditch school and uh we go

1893
01:43:26,120 --> 01:43:29,080
Speaker 1: out in the desert shooting stuff. You know, we go

1894
01:43:29,160 --> 01:43:31,320
Speaker 1: out on weekend. We'd go on the desert night hut,

1895
01:43:32,080 --> 01:43:34,840
Speaker 1: you know, camping out the desert. Yeah, just going out

1896
01:43:35,080 --> 01:43:38,200
Speaker 1: doing stuff. That's yeah, that's what we wanted to do.

1897
01:43:38,520 --> 01:43:40,080
Speaker 1: Even though you can't hunt it and trap it. Is

1898
01:43:40,120 --> 01:43:42,280
Speaker 1: that Mohave desert stuff still cool to hang out in.

1899
01:43:42,560 --> 01:43:45,360
Speaker 1: Is it pretty wild? Uh? Now? So much of it

1900
01:43:45,760 --> 01:43:49,160
Speaker 1: uh has been closed to wilderness, you know, close all

1901
01:43:49,160 --> 01:43:51,360
Speaker 1: the roads anywhere that the topography out there in that

1902
01:43:51,439 --> 01:43:55,960
Speaker 1: desert changed from flat to two hills that they years ago,

1903
01:43:56,040 --> 01:43:58,479
Speaker 1: they turned it into wilderness, like drew a line around it,

1904
01:43:58,720 --> 01:44:02,439
Speaker 1: closed all the roads. Hiking it much. I'm I've never

1905
01:44:02,520 --> 01:44:06,080
Speaker 1: been a big hiker. Um. Then a big portion of

1906
01:44:06,160 --> 01:44:08,960
Speaker 1: a three million acres got turned into the Majabi National Preserve,

1907
01:44:10,000 --> 01:44:12,200
Speaker 1: and uh, their goal was to turn it to its

1908
01:44:12,520 --> 01:44:16,360
Speaker 1: pre colonial days, right, so if it wasn't here when

1909
01:44:16,800 --> 01:44:20,559
Speaker 1: you know, colonization, they they didn't want it. So they,

1910
01:44:20,760 --> 01:44:22,800
Speaker 1: you know, started working with private groups to buy out

1911
01:44:22,800 --> 01:44:24,840
Speaker 1: all the cattle ranchers and chase them out there. And

1912
01:44:24,920 --> 01:44:27,360
Speaker 1: then all those you know, the only reason that desert

1913
01:44:27,439 --> 01:44:30,960
Speaker 1: was worth anything was because a cattleman and and miners

1914
01:44:31,000 --> 01:44:32,880
Speaker 1: and stuff. You know, that's the only that's how the

1915
01:44:32,960 --> 01:44:35,439
Speaker 1: desert got developed, you know, because there's there's no water.

1916
01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:38,160
Speaker 1: So them guys were out there developing springs, natural springs,

1917
01:44:38,240 --> 01:44:41,280
Speaker 1: you know, and stretching cattle waters out across the desert

1918
01:44:41,360 --> 01:44:45,680
Speaker 1: and providing water for wildlife, you know. And so you know,

1919
01:44:45,840 --> 01:44:49,840
Speaker 1: over a period of quite a few years, they pretty

1920
01:44:49,920 --> 01:44:52,160
Speaker 1: much got rid of all the cattleman. There's only one

1921
01:44:52,200 --> 01:44:54,960
Speaker 1: left out there. Most all them cattle waters died. If

1922
01:44:55,040 --> 01:44:57,639
Speaker 1: you do hike into one of those old cattle waters

1923
01:44:57,720 --> 01:45:00,320
Speaker 1: or springs that the cattle rancher used to make tane,

1924
01:45:00,920 --> 01:45:04,000
Speaker 1: it's just overgrown. Now there's no water above surface, and um,

1925
01:45:04,680 --> 01:45:07,320
Speaker 1: it's just a it's just death valley. And it used

1926
01:45:07,320 --> 01:45:09,880
Speaker 1: to be teeming with wildlife, you know. But they did

1927
01:45:09,920 --> 01:45:13,439
Speaker 1: all that, you know, in the interests of they, you know, say,

1928
01:45:13,520 --> 01:45:18,640
Speaker 1: retaining it for future generations type. So um, yeah, they

1929
01:45:18,720 --> 01:45:22,960
Speaker 1: actually did that Mobbi preserve with supportive hunters, like they

1930
01:45:23,040 --> 01:45:25,080
Speaker 1: were told it was going to be a pretty pretty

1931
01:45:25,160 --> 01:45:29,200
Speaker 1: neat deal. Um to turn into preserve, you'd get federal

1932
01:45:29,280 --> 01:45:31,559
Speaker 1: money and all that sort of stuff. And and then

1933
01:45:31,640 --> 01:45:34,479
Speaker 1: over the period of time, different directors with the with

1934
01:45:34,640 --> 01:45:38,760
Speaker 1: the that be the Park Service. You know, they even

1935
01:45:38,880 --> 01:45:43,479
Speaker 1: attempt to do stuff like band nighttime coyote hunting out

1936
01:45:43,520 --> 01:45:46,200
Speaker 1: there for the sake of the dark skies, like people

1937
01:45:46,240 --> 01:45:48,160
Speaker 1: that want to go out and look at stars, like

1938
01:45:48,280 --> 01:45:50,160
Speaker 1: they don't want varma hunters out there at night, run

1939
01:45:50,240 --> 01:45:54,040
Speaker 1: a spotlight. You know, it's just a constant. It's California, man,

1940
01:45:55,360 --> 01:45:57,840
Speaker 1: So do you leave California every year then to chase

1941
01:45:57,920 --> 01:46:02,080
Speaker 1: Bobcat somewhere else? Yeah, Arizona's my playground these days, and

1942
01:46:02,120 --> 01:46:05,240
Speaker 1: I'm only two hours from there, but I just almost,

1943
01:46:05,920 --> 01:46:10,040
Speaker 1: I almost you know, satisfy that itch between. So for

1944
01:46:10,120 --> 01:46:12,080
Speaker 1: the last several years, you know, I was working for

1945
01:46:12,240 --> 01:46:16,400
Speaker 1: us d A doing you know, trapping, doing kyote worksheet protection,

1946
01:46:16,479 --> 01:46:19,200
Speaker 1: and then they we had contracts with you know, game

1947
01:46:19,320 --> 01:46:21,000
Speaker 1: fish stuff like that. We go into units and do

1948
01:46:21,240 --> 01:46:23,599
Speaker 1: fawn protection. You know, when the spring kill you remove

1949
01:46:23,680 --> 01:46:27,680
Speaker 1: coyotes to try to help the fonds um. But you know,

1950
01:46:27,800 --> 01:46:30,680
Speaker 1: I left that and then I found out about these

1951
01:46:30,720 --> 01:46:33,240
Speaker 1: different contracts with different states and stuff like that, and

1952
01:46:33,320 --> 01:46:35,240
Speaker 1: I was like, huh, you know, what's that all about.

1953
01:46:35,280 --> 01:46:37,280
Speaker 1: Why is the USDA getting to do all that? So

1954
01:46:37,360 --> 01:46:39,360
Speaker 1: then I started working my way into some of that stuff.

1955
01:46:39,720 --> 01:46:43,040
Speaker 1: And so between you know, building the cage traps and uh,

1956
01:46:43,520 --> 01:46:46,200
Speaker 1: in the springtime I'll do I'll do kyote work for

1957
01:46:46,200 --> 01:46:48,680
Speaker 1: about two and a half months somewhere and another you know,

1958
01:46:48,800 --> 01:46:52,519
Speaker 1: different different contracts, and then the wintertime, I'm got to

1959
01:46:52,560 --> 01:46:54,439
Speaker 1: do this radio collar stuff. For the last three years

1960
01:46:54,520 --> 01:46:57,519
Speaker 1: and so yeah, I'm hoping to get back home, get

1961
01:46:57,560 --> 01:46:59,360
Speaker 1: caught up on cage traps and everything, and get at

1962
01:46:59,439 --> 01:47:03,120
Speaker 1: least get to you know, recreationally in February. You know,

1963
01:47:03,280 --> 01:47:07,519
Speaker 1: for myself, it kind of like your business. The way

1964
01:47:07,560 --> 01:47:09,920
Speaker 1: it's evolved over time kind of reminds me of a

1965
01:47:10,000 --> 01:47:17,680
Speaker 1: little bit like being a writer, where um, the medium's

1966
01:47:17,760 --> 01:47:21,600
Speaker 1: change all the time, right, Like I was, I was

1967
01:47:21,680 --> 01:47:23,640
Speaker 1: in to talk about a certain set of ideas and

1968
01:47:23,760 --> 01:47:25,000
Speaker 1: at a time it was like, oh, it was in

1969
01:47:25,080 --> 01:47:27,479
Speaker 1: magazine articles, and then it was in books, then it's

1970
01:47:27,520 --> 01:47:30,800
Speaker 1: in podcasts, then it's an audio original ship and it's

1971
01:47:30,800 --> 01:47:35,960
Speaker 1: in TV, right, it's in YouTube, whatever it is. It

1972
01:47:36,040 --> 01:47:37,680
Speaker 1: feels like you've been doing the same thing, but like

1973
01:47:37,880 --> 01:47:41,400
Speaker 1: everything's changed around it for sure. Like for to get yeah,

1974
01:47:41,479 --> 01:47:46,120
Speaker 1: that you've just been like wherever Bobcats take me? No, absolutely,

1975
01:47:46,200 --> 01:47:48,479
Speaker 1: because for for quite a few years I just was

1976
01:47:48,680 --> 01:47:51,559
Speaker 1: into selling their pelts, you know, That's what I was about.

1977
01:47:51,600 --> 01:47:54,000
Speaker 1: And then the case trapping thing started. So now I've

1978
01:47:54,040 --> 01:47:56,200
Speaker 1: got like, you know, a little side gig going on

1979
01:47:56,320 --> 01:47:59,120
Speaker 1: with the case traps plus I'm trapping. And then and

1980
01:47:59,200 --> 01:48:02,759
Speaker 1: when as we lost everything in California, that was almost

1981
01:48:03,120 --> 01:48:05,280
Speaker 1: hand in hand the same time where I started doing

1982
01:48:05,320 --> 01:48:08,280
Speaker 1: seasonal work for U S d A and then working

1983
01:48:08,320 --> 01:48:10,479
Speaker 1: for you know, Arizona Game of Fish stuff. Yeah, it's

1984
01:48:10,520 --> 01:48:13,040
Speaker 1: just like like, yeah, every few years to figure out

1985
01:48:13,040 --> 01:48:14,640
Speaker 1: a new way to make money off of bobcats and

1986
01:48:14,840 --> 01:48:18,799
Speaker 1: and the research stuff is proving to be really fulfilling,

1987
01:48:19,000 --> 01:48:23,760
Speaker 1: very very fun. Uh. Sometimes people are right in and

1988
01:48:23,880 --> 01:48:27,080
Speaker 1: ask how to get a job, like an outdoor job,

1989
01:48:27,520 --> 01:48:31,160
Speaker 1: her job in the outdoors. It's kindly take your pick.

1990
01:48:31,240 --> 01:48:35,680
Speaker 1: I don't know every way in no way, you know, yeah, no,

1991
01:48:35,880 --> 01:48:38,640
Speaker 1: two people have the same story. I was saying, like,

1992
01:48:38,760 --> 01:48:41,920
Speaker 1: you've carved this whole crazy existence like that man, and

1993
01:48:41,960 --> 01:48:44,200
Speaker 1: you wouldn't be like, well, here's how you do it. Yeah,

1994
01:48:44,280 --> 01:48:49,040
Speaker 1: and every made any sense. It's not. I would love

1995
01:48:49,040 --> 01:48:50,920
Speaker 1: to tell you how to plan and figured it all

1996
01:48:51,000 --> 01:48:54,200
Speaker 1: out ahead of time, but it's like every year brings

1997
01:48:54,280 --> 01:48:58,560
Speaker 1: something new that's just not replicable. No. Uh, well, you

1998
01:48:58,600 --> 01:49:03,280
Speaker 1: know the USDA Wildlife Services route is not too bad.

1999
01:49:03,680 --> 01:49:05,599
Speaker 1: You know a lot of guys get there, get started

2000
01:49:05,640 --> 01:49:08,200
Speaker 1: doing that. You know, you can spend an entire career

2001
01:49:08,280 --> 01:49:13,840
Speaker 1: working for USDA Wildlife Services, you know, as a wildlife specialists.

2002
01:49:14,400 --> 01:49:16,920
Speaker 1: We've had some of those guys on the show. They

2003
01:49:16,960 --> 01:49:18,920
Speaker 1: get kind of a bad Everybody likes to make fun

2004
01:49:18,960 --> 01:49:22,200
Speaker 1: of the government trapper. You know, I didn't know that yeah. Yeah,

2005
01:49:22,200 --> 01:49:23,880
Speaker 1: they all like to cheese that, you know, he's not

2006
01:49:23,880 --> 01:49:27,040
Speaker 1: any good or whatever. But then yeah, but then at

2007
01:49:27,080 --> 01:49:29,280
Speaker 1: the same time you have trappers telling you, oh yeah,

2008
01:49:29,360 --> 01:49:30,880
Speaker 1: you know, the government trapper in my town taught me

2009
01:49:30,920 --> 01:49:33,519
Speaker 1: how to trap. So like the old government trappers, they

2010
01:49:33,600 --> 01:49:38,000
Speaker 1: get credit for being great and and you know USDA

2011
01:49:38,080 --> 01:49:40,600
Speaker 1: guys nowadays they get knocked on a lot, you know,

2012
01:49:40,920 --> 01:49:42,679
Speaker 1: like oh yeah, we had that, we had the government

2013
01:49:42,720 --> 01:49:44,640
Speaker 1: guy out. He couldn't kill the guyote, you know, so

2014
01:49:44,920 --> 01:49:46,280
Speaker 1: you know, like meet a bunch of boys from the

2015
01:49:46,320 --> 01:49:51,040
Speaker 1: bar went and killed it. You know, well, man, I

2016
01:49:51,120 --> 01:49:53,599
Speaker 1: appreciate you coming out and hanging out. Oh shoot, man,

2017
01:49:53,680 --> 01:49:55,280
Speaker 1: I got the in fight. There's no doubt that was

2018
01:49:55,320 --> 01:49:58,080
Speaker 1: coming up. Tell people how to find your tell people

2019
01:49:58,080 --> 01:50:01,280
Speaker 1: how to find your your business. Oh yeah, camp trip

2020
01:50:01,360 --> 01:50:04,240
Speaker 1: Cages on Facebook is where I'm most active, believe it

2021
01:50:04,360 --> 01:50:06,840
Speaker 1: or not. Facebook. Um, but your website says you're gonna

2022
01:50:06,840 --> 01:50:10,040
Speaker 1: make a website. Yeah, the website, the certificates and everything

2023
01:50:10,160 --> 01:50:12,519
Speaker 1: ran out like a year ago. Uh, and so we

2024
01:50:12,640 --> 01:50:14,400
Speaker 1: just kind of put like a placeholder side, you know,

2025
01:50:14,560 --> 01:50:18,720
Speaker 1: on their caging Bobcats dot com. Um, and it's been

2026
01:50:18,760 --> 01:50:20,800
Speaker 1: a year now. I've been promising that website guy that

2027
01:50:20,880 --> 01:50:23,120
Speaker 1: i'd i'd work on it for him, and I haven't done. Yeah,

2028
01:50:23,120 --> 01:50:25,320
Speaker 1: I'm sposed sending a bunch of pictures though, but heck,

2029
01:50:25,320 --> 01:50:27,160
Speaker 1: I'm so darn busy right now. Just word of mouth

2030
01:50:27,320 --> 01:50:29,800
Speaker 1: that you know, and it's it's kind of cool because

2031
01:50:30,400 --> 01:50:33,679
Speaker 1: when people look you up word of mouth, like they're

2032
01:50:33,720 --> 01:50:35,880
Speaker 1: they're looking for you because they want your product. Like

2033
01:50:36,080 --> 01:50:38,479
Speaker 1: you get that phone call, you're making a sale. When

2034
01:50:38,720 --> 01:50:41,800
Speaker 1: when I almost dread putting social media posts out because

2035
01:50:41,800 --> 01:50:44,800
Speaker 1: you get you know, you make one social Yeah, you

2036
01:50:44,840 --> 01:50:46,640
Speaker 1: get one social media posts. You get all kind of

2037
01:50:46,680 --> 01:50:49,560
Speaker 1: guys want free advice and asking a million questions and

2038
01:50:49,640 --> 01:50:52,240
Speaker 1: don't don't even read your post. They ask you questions

2039
01:50:52,240 --> 01:50:58,840
Speaker 1: about the post you just made. Yeah, all right, man,

2040
01:50:58,920 --> 01:51:01,960
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Yeah, shoot, I appreciate it. So find

2041
01:51:02,040 --> 01:51:05,320
Speaker 1: you there, um and if you're not out there, you're

2042
01:51:05,360 --> 01:51:08,360
Speaker 1: out in the desert somewhere learning about Bob Kints. Yeah,

2043
01:51:09,000 --> 01:51:11,479
Speaker 1: for sure, I appreciate you coming up, man, Thank you,

2044
01:51:11,560 --> 01:51:12,840
Speaker 1: thanks buddy, good me. Now you guys,