1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Cool Peoplehood, Cool Stuff, your weekly podcast, 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: twice weekly podcast. It's a podcast. You can listen to it. 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,480 Speaker 1: My name is Margaret, I'm the host of it. This 4 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: week we are talking about Anti Racist Action or AURA 5 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: for short, and with me today explaining all of this 6 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 1: and gate keeping the naming conventions of this group is 7 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,319 Speaker 1: the one and only Shannon Clay Shannon, how are you? 8 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: I'm I'm fine. It's okay. I can't stop you my podcast, okay. 9 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: And we also have a Sophie Ray Lichterman with us. 10 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: How are you today? I don't know government name, I 11 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: don't know why am I in trouble? I don't know. 12 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: I just read it off the zooms the zoom name. Oh, 13 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: it's true. Very formal today, Margaret, if that is yeah? 14 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: That is my name. Yeah. Sophie is our producer, Shannon 15 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: is our guest. Ian is our audio editor. The music 16 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: is made for us by a woman. And today we 17 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: are doing part two of Anti Racist Action, which was 18 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: a coalition, a formal network of people who whose motto 19 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: was we go where they go about following racists and 20 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: preventing them from doing organizing, sometimes by counter organizing and 21 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: sometimes by throwing large rocks that they found next to 22 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: train tracks. That a decent, decent start, and where we 23 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: just last left our heroes, they had just formally become 24 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: mothful lum them the Midwest Anti Fascist Network, I get 25 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: that right, Yes, although I dear listener can just kind 26 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: of skip over that in their brain if it's easier. 27 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: Technically called themselves mid With Anti Fascist Network for a year, 28 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: but renamed and I just think of it as always 29 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: the inter Racist Action Network. One thing that's really in 30 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: just seeing me about it that you know it started 31 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: as the Midwest thing, is that, like, the Midwest is 32 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: not the part of the country that people who don't 33 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 1: live in the Midwest think about all that regularly, um, 34 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: which is a shame. There's very many nice things. There's 35 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: probably some windmills. No. I actually really like the Midwest, 36 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: but I don't know. That's like one of the things 37 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: that's really interesting me about it is that this h 38 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: you know, the plate we we always think about like 39 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: the places that the right wing comes from, but we 40 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: don't realize that the same places that the right wing 41 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: comes from are also where a lot of the countering 42 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: forces to the right wing come from. UM. I don't know. 43 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: That was like one of my takeaways I was thinking 44 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: about yesterday, yesterday, Monday, ten minutes ago. I miss meaningless. Yeah, 45 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 1: absolutely though, and I and I you're right, And thanks 46 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: for like kind of reminding me of it, because I 47 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: I think that is a really cool thing to like 48 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: really appreciate about antiret at Action is that they really 49 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: did um. So we talked about how they like really 50 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: grew and coalesced around like following the clan around the Midwest. 51 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: The corollary of that was that like you were starting 52 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: to get antiret Action chapters in like exactly in like 53 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: small towns, you know. One of one of the big 54 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: ones was like you know, there was like maybe a 55 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: college town in Ohio. I remember someone told me about 56 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: like one chapter that was like just like four punk 57 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: kids who lived in the same trailer park in Indiana mhm, 58 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: and that it was going to like small town America 59 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: and bringing in I think a lot of people from yeah, 60 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: just exactly like you said that it wasn't all you know, 61 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: I don't know, coastal elites or whatever. You um that 62 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: it was bringing in yeah, people from the flyover states basically, Yeah, Yeah, 63 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: that's it. Makes sense, and it's like, you know, because 64 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: like I feel like that's the thing that we talked 65 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: about right now, is like the US is polarizing very hard, 66 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: and we people are like thinking things more in terms 67 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: of like red states and blue states than ever before, 68 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: even though that makes even less sense than usual, as 69 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: we see during while an election will have happened by 70 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: the time people we're listening to this have heard it. 71 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: But you know, like we keep seeing that what is 72 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: a red state or what is a blue state can 73 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: change very quickly because like you're not talking about huge 74 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: percent differences, like you know, um, there's still people of 75 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: all different political ideologies in all different types of spaces, 76 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: and like just the tiniest shift in percentage will allow 77 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: those political ideologies to kind of take over. Which is 78 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: why ship like a r A seems so important to me, 79 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: right is because it would be so easy for Nazis 80 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: or far right things as we're watching happen in real 81 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: time to our lives in the United States. When people 82 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: are not successfully shut down, they grow, the right wing grows, 83 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: and it can really easily shift things. And I don't 84 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: know which I guess I like hopeful takeaways and it's 85 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: also possible to shift things backwards back the way I 86 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: don't know. Never mind, I don't know I'm going with this. 87 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 1: Please please rescue me by telling me what's happening next. 88 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: In the A A story, I'll start off with a 89 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: more thematic response to the thematic thing you're saying that. 90 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: I think another really cool thing and I haven't like 91 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: super explicitly touched on this, but another really cool thing 92 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: about a A was that it did bring in people 93 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: from a lot of different I think ranges of like 94 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: political experience and political commitment. And the way that one person, 95 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: uh Steve from Michigan, who was like a punk kid 96 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: and then got into like hip hop and stuff and 97 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: joined as a student at m s U. The way 98 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: he described it was it was really cool that you 99 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: could be in a room with like people who have 100 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 1: been dedicated like leftists, communists, but most commonly anarchists for 101 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,679 Speaker 1: like thirty years, and you could have like a fifteen 102 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 1: year old random punk kid in like the same room, uh, 103 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: and they're all like part of the same group anti 104 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: racist action and trying to build towards working together and 105 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: learning from each other. And so that was another, I think, 106 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: really special thing about a ray that maybe I haven't 107 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 1: touched on super briefly, but take my room for it now. 108 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 1: A draw drew in a pretty wide variety of I 109 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: think it was accessible to people who were like first 110 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: wanting to get involved because maybe they just hear about like, oh, 111 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: like the clan. Obviously that's bad. Yeah, I want to 112 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 1: go funk up or I want to go oppose the clan. 113 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: You can suck them up. That's completely fine from my 114 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: point of view. I would never tell anyone what to do, 115 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: but fucking up the clan is always a moral good. Yeah. 116 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: Maybe I stopped myself because I don't know how often 117 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: that's going to be someone's like first intro. Uh but ye, 118 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: fair enough, Yeah, yeah, someone who closing them in other 119 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: ways it's great too. Yeah, like oh, you know, for 120 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: my first ever political anything, like yeah, I'll go opposed 121 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,679 Speaker 1: the clan, and but they're like joining the same group 122 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 1: where there I don't know what. People like this dude Mac, 123 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: who was like an anti racist lawyer who had been 124 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: involved in in like sort of new less left stuff 125 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: out of like the sixties and students for Democratic Society, 126 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: and he had this different experience he had like you 127 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: had some of the old heads brink coming in and 128 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: bringing in that that lived experience and knowledge and wisdom 129 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: along with you know, fourteen year old kids, and that 130 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: was really cool about anyway, that's cool. Okay, So so 131 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: where we last left him, they had just formed a 132 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: RARA not more or less a year from now, they'll 133 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: change their name to a Rara net, but the concept 134 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: is there, So so what happens then? Yeah, so I 135 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: will just give a really brief overview of basically the 136 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: like network formally, so are A. It's worth keeping in 137 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: mind was always a pretty like decentralized group. I think 138 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: that was informed by like of any like super involved 139 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: political tendency. Anarchists were the biggest one, but it wasn't 140 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: just like an anarchist thing. It was also just that 141 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: you had so many different people with different beliefs. It 142 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: was a very decentralized group, so that you could have 143 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: everyone in the same room working together towards the common 144 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: goal of like fighting Nazis. And so you know, it's 145 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: kind of that there there are a lot of the 146 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: time the best way to understand, uh something about a 147 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,679 Speaker 1: r A would be to like look at specific chapters 148 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: maybe doing things. But because it's such a rich history 149 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: and so many different chapters got up to so many 150 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: different things. We could be here all day and of 151 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: course I would love that, and I know everyone else 152 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: with But but yeah to to we'll we'll zoom out 153 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: and give a more bird's eye view of maybe like 154 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: what the network was doing. And then I think maybe 155 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: we will we will zoom in um and give some 156 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: like specific examples of different chapters. But so the network 157 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: as like formal grouping of different people coming together. I 158 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: think a lot of the driving force in bringing people 159 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: together again continues to be plan rallies, for example, And 160 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: so it's the same thing that brought people together into 161 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: this conference that happened in October. That same stuff continues. 162 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: Different clans are still doing the same thing and having 163 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: public events and trying to get their message out, and 164 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: are A chapters are continuing to oppose them, Like I said, 165 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: as are A goes around and you know, they're they're 166 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: printing out pamphlets and they're signing people up on their 167 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: mailing list and they're traveling all over. So areas growing 168 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:31,439 Speaker 1: and you're getting people, like I said, like from college 169 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: town in Ohio or from a trailer park in Indiana, 170 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: an area is really growing pretty meaningfully, especially like in 171 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: this Midwest context of fighting against clans, and they continue 172 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 1: to have some really cool victories against the clans. You 173 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: continue to have a lot of like a very high 174 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: rate though of of clan events. Clan events are happening 175 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: on a really regular basis, and I think at this 176 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: time Area's model really becomes what one person, Jerry from 177 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 1: Columbus described as a like grinding consistency and so getting 178 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: into like I think it was five I want to say, 179 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: there was like one clan for example, where the head 180 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: of that clan said that they were going to have 181 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: rallies in like a year because that was like how many. 182 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: So it's like at least one for every county in Ohio. 183 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: And so like I've I've done political stuff, I haven't 184 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: done like rallies in a year. That's like a lot. 185 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: So that's like easily one every weekend. And so what 186 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 1: it becomes about is like following them just really consistently 187 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: and trying to take what is for the clan meant 188 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: to be like a cool encouraging Well maybe they wouldn't 189 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: put it in those terms, but what is for the 190 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 1: clan meant to be like a constructive event of them 191 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: like pushing forward and getting their message out. Instead are 192 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: a just trying to make it basically a not fun 193 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: time for them that like every weekend they're going out 194 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: and every weekend they're getting shouted down, being told that 195 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: them and their ideas are very unpopular. You know, maybe 196 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: they are getting things thrown at them. I think the 197 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: physicality UM is sort of maybe going down over time, 198 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: not because people are less militant, but basically the police 199 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: are learning over time and wanting to be a bit 200 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 1: more yeah, and basically realizing how sort of serious they 201 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: have to take this and that, or well realizing that 202 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: if the cops don't do anything, then it's very possible 203 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: for the clan to like get the ship kicked out 204 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:34,599 Speaker 1: of them, uh at once. To the police sort of 205 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: catch up to that over time and start being you 206 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: get very significant police presences and maybe you'll have like 207 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: a hundred clan people and like two hundred cops or something. Yeah, 208 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: and so yeah, it just becomes this grinding consistency over time, 209 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: and UM are a really growing from this, and honestly, 210 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,679 Speaker 1: like I don't want to skip too much chronologically. If 211 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: you read the book. We have some like really you know, 212 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: great examples, but again, like so much of it is 213 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: just consistency that I can kind of, like to an extent, 214 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: say that, like that's pretty much what they got up to. 215 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: At least those are a members who were involved in 216 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: anti clan stuff for like a couple of years. So 217 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: like I'm going to have a quote now from like 218 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: nine Okay, and so we've you know, skipped ahead, but 219 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: like I don't don't feel like we're missing things really 220 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: because I just said we've skipped ahead. We haven't really 221 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 1: skipped ahead. Is it like the stuff that they were 222 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,199 Speaker 1: doing in nine two, um, and then in the nine 223 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: four with the mathnet conference that established the network. They're 224 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: continuing to do that with just really significant dedication and 225 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: you know, getting more people out over time. But it's 226 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: a lot of the time the same ideas. So that 227 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 1: then by like nineteen seven this I mentioned the same 228 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: guy Jerry uh said that, as he put it, that 229 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: the clan was having failure after failure after failure after failure. 230 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 1: So there was one event that they had in April 231 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: in Pittsburgh, and I remember reading in the newspaper that 232 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: the clan like gathered at like a burger king in 233 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 1: the next town, and like there was I think the 234 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: way the newspaper put it, there was like a local 235 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: there was a disturbance at the local burger king or something. 236 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: I don't know anything about that, but I just think 237 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: that's a funny sentence. Disturbance of the king um and 238 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: then go out and try to have their rally and 239 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: like just like they never get anywhere because there was 240 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: I don't even know what the numbers are I've I've 241 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 1: been told. I think it might have been like literally 242 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: like ten people on the streets of Pittsburgh for this 243 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: you know, pretty small clan rally that they were trying 244 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:46,839 Speaker 1: to a pretty small clan grouping and trying to give 245 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: their speeches, and instead they come out and just like 246 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: you know, imagine the streets just like packed to the 247 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: gills with people, so that like you wanted impossible oppers. 248 00:13:55,679 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: But they were like twenty years too early exact Vegan 249 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: time travelers were very upset about the way that the 250 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: whole thing went because people from the future went back 251 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: to go fight Nazis back then, and they assumed that 252 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: when they got there they'd be able to like, well, 253 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: look it's at a burger King, so at least there's 254 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 1: gonna be something we can eat. And imagine they're surprised 255 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: when they found out the impossible whopper was um still 256 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: considered impossible at that time. Exactly. I'm so I'm glad 257 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: we're teasing out the burger kingness because so the clan rally, 258 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: the clan gathered at the at the burger King. But 259 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: I just thought that was hilarious. This is all then 260 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: happening on the other side of town. Okay, well never mind, Yeah, sorry, 261 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: I maybe confusing. I just any any opportunity to mention 262 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: burger King, Yeah, I just yeah, apparently funny. I am 263 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: also I am vegan, and they're impossible whopper he is 264 00:14:52,680 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: just okay, so pious lapping um. But yeah, So Pittsburgh, 265 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: I think just like a really cool example of like 266 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: it wasn't there there was some super dramatic like you know, 267 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: street fighting or something like that, and you know, street 268 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: fighting can be cool with the ones that you're street 269 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: fighting or Nazis. But instead they just had like so 270 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: many thousands of people in Pittsburgh that like the clan 271 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: never got their message across the street, even just totally 272 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: drowned out. I think the way that Jerry put it, 273 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: for yeah, he put it that there were the event 274 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: was a success because the anti clan protesters had, quote Jerry, 275 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: such great numbers that we didn't even have to fight, 276 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: such great fighters, such great numbers that the only picture 277 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: you can see of your rally is of the counter 278 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: rally from the helicopter, Like journalists trying to get a 279 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: shot of a rally and all they see is like 280 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: a sea of people saying that the clan is not 281 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: welcome here. Well, that's such a classic example of what 282 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: the media tries to be. Like, let's look at both 283 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: sides of the story, and one is the story of 284 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: thirty five people, and one is the story of thirty people. 285 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: And like the media will be like both of these 286 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: are equally weighted, and you're like that makes that makes 287 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: no sense, but so and and so this is also 288 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: a good opportunity to understand more of how are was 289 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: doing that not when percent of the people were like 290 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: A are a members Like a A was not you know, 291 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: this mass organization with like ten thousand members coming to 292 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: one rally, but they were doing a lot of the 293 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: work maybe organizing and so in the case of Pittsburgh specifically, 294 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: for example, they were in uh like a coalition. Um, 295 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: I think there were like campus people involved. Uh, there 296 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: were like I want to say maybe even like religious groups. 297 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: There were like you know, local communists and stuff, leftists 298 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: who are going to come to a clan rally of 299 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: like a coalition bringing out like a ton of ton 300 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: of people. And are A are one of the forces 301 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: who are there at the specific Pittsburgh rally and are 302 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: doing a lot of doing these rallies like all the 303 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: time on a really regular basis. And so yeah, are 304 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 1: A really brought the clan the people, I think, and 305 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,479 Speaker 1: this is like a credit to them that people who 306 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: were involved in ra who I spoke to are not 307 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:14,679 Speaker 1: you know, instantly looking to like just take credit for 308 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: the sake of it. Um that they want to sort 309 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: of like let's do what is politically best, Like if 310 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: this works, let's say it works. If it doesn't work, 311 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 1: let's not. And so I think some people I spoke 312 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: to were hesitant to like they didn't want to say 313 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 1: that are A like could take of the credit that 314 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 1: like the a A quote unquote like stopped the clan. 315 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 1: But this was like a very dynamic period of clan 316 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: organizing from like through maybe like nine ish, But it 317 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: was really like at every step of the way they 318 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 1: were hounded by a A and by other people and so, um, 319 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,959 Speaker 1: I'll just go ahead and read from the person who 320 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: was there who put it past. You could just see 321 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: we limited what the clan could do. They had marches, 322 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: and we funked up their marches. Then they had to 323 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: be stationary, and then they had to be in a pen. 324 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: It's like they were up in like big fences, like 325 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: protected by the police basically, and the police and the 326 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: clan were constantly reacting to what are A was doing. 327 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: We could see in real time that we were having 328 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: an effect attracting the attention of the motherfucker's. We fought 329 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: the clan to a stand still. I wouldn't say we 330 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 1: beat them, but we made it very, very difficult for 331 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: them to do their work, and we changed the parameters 332 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: of how they could even organize. Yeah, hell yeah, and 333 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: so yeah, by like into like two thousand one ish, Uh, 334 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: you like, we're still having clan events going on. But 335 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: like that quote just said, a A had had done 336 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: a really good job of kind of getting in their 337 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: way at every turn pretty much and keeping it limited. 338 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: And so by like two thousand two one, the clan 339 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: is really pretty much out of the picture and much 340 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: maybe that's a little strong to say, but but like 341 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: much less of a significant thing than they were in 342 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: like ninety when you know, was having one rally a 343 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: weekend stuff like that. Yes, because like we can't go 344 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: back and we can't run the experiment of the nineties 345 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 1: twice and and see what happens if we take out 346 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: the A R A, Right, so we can't say that 347 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: without the A R A the KKK would have had 348 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: explosive growth or something. But it it's still when we see, oh, 349 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: well we tried to smash the KKK, and the KKK survived, 350 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: so therefore we failed. And that's like not true at all, 351 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: because yeah, when they stopped the KKK is organizing, they 352 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 1: stopped the kkks growth, they stopped the allowing them to 353 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: be unchallenged or whatever. Right, Like, I don't know, there's 354 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: this thing that a lot of the discourse around this 355 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: time period, Um I remember I lived, you know in 356 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: the mid Atlantic or during this time, is that people 357 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: would talk about like well, if you go fight them 358 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: in the streets or you go confront them in the streets. 359 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: You give them what they want. They want a big spectacle, 360 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: they want um, you know, they want the fight so 361 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: that they looked tough and and all of this stuff. 362 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: And this is a thing that people talk about an 363 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: anti fascist organizing a lot, and I'm curious what the 364 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: a r AS kind of stance on this was. Um. 365 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 1: The thing that I've run across the most part is 366 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: the realization that it only looks good when they get 367 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 1: into street fights, when they like give as good as 368 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: they get and or win, ideally win because overall, I 369 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: would can claim that fascism is a cowards ideology, and 370 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: it's an ideology were like, you know, I was reading 371 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: about historical KKK the other day and how most of 372 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: the fights that they would take on were forty two one. 373 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: You know, they like wouldn't fuck with people in a 374 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: fair fight, and and so the KKKK whatever, how many 375 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: case the clan will say like, oh, we're the underdogs, 376 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: and they'll play the underdog card because it's the only 377 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: card in their hand, but it doesn't play to their strength. 378 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: Like when they're the underdog. When fascism is the underdog, 379 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: it doesn't do as well Fascism does really well when 380 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: it seems ascendant, when you can be part, when you're 381 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: breaking through and no longer being the underdog. You know, 382 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: That's that's fascism when it's at its best recruitment. And 383 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: when they just keep getting their asses handed them or 384 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: when they keep getting shouted down. I mean, they can 385 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 1: recruit off of that, but not as well. I don't know. 386 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: That's my take, and I'm wondering what the case, what 387 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: the AIRA is take around that kind of stuff was. 388 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,360 Speaker 1: I'll try to give a couple answers really briefly. That one. 389 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 1: I think this is a cool like sort of analytical question, 390 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: which is very important. But the air A sort of 391 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: by its nature of being like very decentralized, wasn't super 392 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: you know, didn't didn't have a super defined like party 393 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: line and stuff like that, and so you could find 394 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: a variety of viewpoints from that like sort of analytical 395 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 1: tactical stuff of like these were conversations that are a 396 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 1: people absolutely had that actually reminds me of sorry to 397 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: cut off. It reminds me of our our our new 398 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: sponsor political pluralism, in which you work in coalition with 399 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: people that you don't have the exact same ideas as um, 400 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: that's the new right. Sophie, you managed laurealism. Thanks to 401 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: everyone who tweeted a hashtag I believe in Sophie. Who 402 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: can ben Sophie to continue to sing the jingles? And 403 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,120 Speaker 1: it's sorry for those of you who are like, please 404 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: don't tweet at her. Here's some other ads. We are 405 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: back and I accidentally derailed capitalism derailed Shannon. Okay, does 406 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: it again? So there's no party line? Yeah, but so 407 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: so from us sort of like from a standpoint of 408 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: like sort of the efficacy of it, from the like 409 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: politics of it. Absolutely, like the baseline of are A 410 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: was always willing to be militant and willing to be 411 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:09,959 Speaker 1: confrontational in a way that like more traditional liberal politics isn't. Um. 412 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: They were as like a political principle. They never believed like, oh, 413 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: let's look the other way and this will like wither 414 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: away or something like oh, don't don't feed them. They 415 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: definitely believed that like fascism needed to be actively opposed 416 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: and not just ignored. I think maybe one thing that 417 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: I will just say, and so this is pretty much 418 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 1: just me speaking and not are A. Who do I 419 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: think I am, I'm a historian, but now I will 420 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: I will briefly give just my own opinion that one. 421 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: I think you put it really well, and so I 422 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: don't want to just restate what you said. But yeah, 423 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: it's like explicitly a part of fascist politics in a 424 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: way that it is not part of other politics to 425 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: be like we run the streets and are tough and 426 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: masculine and wind fights. Like if the if you know, 427 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 1: the talking Democrat pick party or something like gets their 428 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: asses handed to them in like physical violence or something, 429 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: then that does like that doesn't conflict with the Democrat 430 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: Party platform. They're not like the platform is not We're 431 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,640 Speaker 1: really good at fighting. It's that can play into their 432 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: like sort of liberal conception of free speech. They're like, oh, 433 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: look at these our opponents who are really bad and 434 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: aren't respecting our liberal idea of free speech, and so 435 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: vote for us in order to defend free speech. We 436 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: don't believe that fighting is the way to go. That 437 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: that works for the Democratic Party. It does not work 438 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 1: for fascists. Fascists their politics is we are the like 439 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: Ubermensch master race who are really strong and tough, and 440 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: so then if they're getting their ship kicked in. Then 441 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: it's a very quick and objective demonstration that like, oh well, 442 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: I guess you're not though, are you? And it really 443 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: kind of undermines their whole politics really yeah. Yeah. And 444 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: then the same also without numbering them constantly, is that 445 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: like we are the real America. We are the majority, 446 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: the silent majority. You're like you're not though you're just not. 447 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: There's like ten times as many of us. Fuck off. Yeah, okay, okay, 448 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: I'm sold um okay, So so let's let's continue onward. Yeah. 449 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: So I think the clan stuff, I try to bring 450 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: us up to like maybe nine ish, and I will 451 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: uh sidestep two again from like the national perspective around 452 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: like nineteen ninety seven and ninety nine. By national, I 453 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 1: mean like are A as a network, not just like 454 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: the specific chapters that were in it, but Area is 455 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 1: like this national network is having huge, huge growth at 456 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 1: this time for one like pretty specific reason of like 457 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:53,959 Speaker 1: music tours. Huh. So are A has been pretty closely 458 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,880 Speaker 1: linked with youth culture from its beginning of skinhead scenes 459 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,040 Speaker 1: and kicking Nazis out of punk scenes, but in of 460 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: then and I think are A has enough sort of 461 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: like organizational capacity maybe to allow this. But they go 462 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: on like multiple tours all across the country with different 463 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:15,400 Speaker 1: starting but through I'm I'm gonna say, at least with 464 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: like different national music tours, and so they're in that 465 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: context able to get their message out to like just 466 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 1: so many people. Is this d I Y or is 467 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 1: this like Warp Tour? Both so the I think the 468 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: first example chronologically I can remember is a Veil, who 469 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 1: are like an influential early like email hardcore band. They 470 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 1: invited are A on tour. I think that was a 471 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: much funnier example is the Mighty Mighty Bostones. I had 472 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: no idea that they had any politics that rules third 473 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: wave Scott to the Rescue said no one before after 474 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: but um okay, so but yeah, but might might of 475 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 1: Boston's was like, Okay, we see this cool political thing 476 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: going on and we want to pick it up. I 477 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: see who you did that. But so they did meet 478 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: are A at literally the Warp tour, and I think, 479 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 1: like this twenty five years ago, that work tour was 480 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: did have a bit more sort of the I Y cred. 481 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: Maybe I gather I was not around at the time, 482 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 1: but anyway, but still the Boston's were like on a 483 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: major label. They were a very big band, um, and 484 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 1: they met a r A when A A was tabling 485 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: at a warp tour or no, I think it was 486 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: Lollapaloosa actually in Chicago, but then invited a r A 487 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: on a national tour. Are A toured with yeah, just 488 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: various different bands, and through that was getting their name 489 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: out to like all kinds of different cities and towns, 490 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: and again specifically sort of like youth who were the 491 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: kind of kids to like go to punk shows or 492 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 1: d I y or maybe like almost d I y 493 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,880 Speaker 1: ish shows, and and really grew a lot. And so 494 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 1: that's the sort of bird's ey view that I want 495 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: to give us right now that especially although also before that, 496 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 1: just to say that like by this time, Area is 497 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: like a big deal, like a lot of people are 498 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: in the group. I think it's the peak of the 499 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: most chapters that are I ever had at a single time. 500 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: I want to say it was a hundred and seventy 501 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: nine chapters, Yeah, which is like a lot. And that's 502 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: at one time, and so that's not counting chapters that 503 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: like popped up and then shut down again, which could 504 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: happen pretty regularly and so it was really like a 505 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: pretty meaningful like definitely countercultural force, but like but pretty popular, 506 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: like small P popular, not capital P like. But yeah, 507 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: that was again the like birds of view I wanted 508 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: to give us because then maybe two we've covered. I'd 509 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: say that the two of the like central um sort 510 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: of like point A to point B historical like things 511 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: of are A with the Skinheads fighting Nazis and then 512 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: the clan stuff. Um, like, there's a reason I talked 513 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: about that. But what I maybe haven't mentioned much up 514 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: until now is that are A Like, yeah, you just 515 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: had a lot of different groups doing a lot of 516 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: different things, like a hundred seventy nine chapters all active 517 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: at the same time. They were not all going to 518 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: clan rallies, or they were not all fighting Nazis. They 519 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,719 Speaker 1: were doing all kinds of different things, and that, uh, 520 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: maybe we could get into a little bit of that 521 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: what are they doing? I up to now have not 522 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: mentioned our dear neighbors to the north at all in Canada, 523 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: and for that I do apologize to any Canadian listeners 524 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: in the know who might be offended. No apologize us 525 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: for being left out. Okay, I will very briefly say, 526 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: I have a dumbass fucking writing style of like dumbass jokes, 527 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: and some of those, understandably or whatever, I guess, got 528 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: cut out. But my favorite by far was that the 529 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: first time we mentioned Canada in the book, I wrote, 530 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: Canada comma a country north of the United States. Thank 531 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: you for laughing Margaret that I just wanted to brag 532 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: about that. I'm freaking funny. Yeah, I will say that 533 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: I will always laugh at Canada jokes. It's easy laughing 534 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: with Canada, laughing with you. Sorry, Canada. Actually you should 535 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: apologize to me for making me apologize. Um, yeah, Margaret, 536 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: were what were you saying? Oh? I just want to 537 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: make everyone clear when Shannon said that the jokes got 538 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: cut not from this show, from the book, I want 539 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: to be really yes, yes, thank you Margaret hum And 540 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: so it's okay. We we had good competent editors. But yeah, 541 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 1: that was a good joke. That it didn't make it 542 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: into the book, but that you, dear listener, have have 543 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: been granted access to So you're welcome. Okay, you're welcome. Okay, 544 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: So what were they doing? Okay? Yeah, so that was 545 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: a pointless fucking uh side thing, the point being that 546 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: Canada was a place where are a was like pretty 547 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: much from the beginning. In fact, there were some like 548 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: Skinhead crews who were in the syndicate who I could 549 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: have mentioned. I think in like Winnipeg, Ontario. I want 550 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: to say one of the area's biggest chapters actually was 551 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: in Toronto. They started around like but they did really 552 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: important work fighting this group called the Heritage Front, who 553 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,959 Speaker 1: were like a big deal of like Canada's like biggest fascists, 554 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: biggest fascist groups since like the forties easily was Heritage run. 555 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: They were, yeah, okay, we're trying to do speed round 556 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: for for for more. You can read we can where 557 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: they go the story of antiresett action. But Toronto did 558 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: really important work there basically stopping the Heritage Fund from 559 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,719 Speaker 1: doing what they were trying to do, working in solidarity 560 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: with some indigenous activists as well. Up in Toronto. UM 561 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: was how it like started UM in order to fight 562 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: the Heritage Front, and they just did a really good 563 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: job of bringing people out for like really popular mobilizations 564 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: but still really militant. The like coolest and most famous 565 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: story and we won't do this too much of U 566 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: speed Round This is a good a story that divide 567 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: that deserves its time. That in Uh, they once did 568 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: a rally where like they gathered everyone. The meeting point was, 569 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 1: I don't know, there was a meeting point in Toronto, 570 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: and so everyone looks at this meeting point and it's like, okay, 571 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: from this meeting point, based on where we're meeting, clearly 572 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: we're going to go to this place where um rallies 573 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: have been held before. There was I believe the it 574 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 1: was like the house of a pretty well known like 575 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: Nazi propagandist was like near this meeting point, and so 576 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: everyone was like, okay, so they're meeting at this spot 577 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: because obviously they're gonna head to this other house where 578 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: this propagandist lives and they've demonstrated there before. But no, 579 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: in fact, what happened was they got everyone at that 580 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: meeting point so that everyone thought that they were going 581 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: to you know, point A, but actually what they did 582 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: instead was loaded everyone onto these like street cars and 583 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: then went to like a completely different place where like 584 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 1: absolutely no one was expecting them to be. And this 585 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: was a popular rally, like they advertised it very publicly. 586 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,479 Speaker 1: I don't know specifically if it was the numbers, but 587 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: like lots of people showed up, and like even the 588 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: people coming to this rally, you know, I didn't know 589 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: that this was the plan necessarily. Then you know, the 590 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: organizers who were in the know with a r a 591 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: direct everyone, Hey, actually we're going to go on these 592 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: street cars. They go to the next place, uh, and 593 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: they bring like a ton of people to the house 594 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,839 Speaker 1: of someone who was involved in the Heritage Front, and 595 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,800 Speaker 1: he was the voice on a rather famous thing that 596 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: the Heritage Front did, which was was called like a 597 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: hate line. It's a very nineties thing, so bear with 598 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 1: me that it was like it was a it was 599 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: a telephone land line that you could like call into 600 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: and then no one would answer, would go to an 601 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 1: answering machine. But the answering machine it wasn't like leave 602 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 1: a message. It was like a racist diet tribe. So 603 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: you like into this line in order to hear the 604 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: Heritage Front's racist propaganda. So the voice on that line, 605 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:47,280 Speaker 1: and I gather that they like changed the message pretty regularly. 606 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: Avery went to his house, which like no one was expecting. 607 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 1: So they like did a bait and switch of we meet. 608 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: At this point, everyone thinks that they're going to this 609 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,839 Speaker 1: one propagandist's house instead they and so, by the way, 610 00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: that's where all the Nazis went to like defend the 611 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 1: house and like prepared to throw down fights, yeah, the 612 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: wrong house. Instead array loads everyone else and goes to 613 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: like a completely different place and shows up at the 614 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 1: house of this dude who was a big organizer for 615 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 1: the Herited Front and just had a rally there and 616 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 1: then and so this was not like a super planned thing, 617 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: but there was like also no one who is necessarily 618 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 1: stopping it that they had. You know, if certain individuals 619 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 1: we're gonna like throw down, no one was going to 620 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: stop them. And so you had like a whole rally 621 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: outside of the house. But then some people out of 622 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: that rally chose individually to run up and like smash 623 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 1: up the house. And so there's like it makes like 624 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: the front page I don't know about the front aage, 625 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: but there are photos in like this Toronto newspaper of 626 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: anti racists smashing up the house of this like racist 627 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: propagandist and sending a very clear message that that kind 628 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: of like fascist propaganda wasn't welcome. Sending a message to 629 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 1: the fascist organizers that they could have consequences for the 630 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: actions that they were doing, and also maybe sending a 631 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,800 Speaker 1: message to the other fascists that are A was smarter 632 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 1: than them because Area had tricked to them all into 633 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: going to the wrong place and then went to this 634 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,800 Speaker 1: other place that was like totally undefended, which is probably 635 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 1: because they read today's sponsor, uh sun Zoos The Art 636 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: of War, which everyone should read, that says things like 637 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: attack the enemy where they're a weak, not where they 638 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: are strong, which seems very obvious in retrospect. But if 639 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,320 Speaker 1: you want a whole book of these obvious in retrospect 640 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: you haven't thought about for your activism, I recommend you 641 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,399 Speaker 1: pick up this new book written thousands of years ago 642 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: called The Art of War by Sun Zoo. So if 643 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 1: he do, you remember the jingle all art of and 644 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: we are back and we were talking about bucking up 645 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 1: propagandists houses. Yeah, so that was, you know, one tiny 646 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: little slice of the rich which history of are A 647 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: in Canada. There was some of some of the Area's 648 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: most important work. And so again in the time, we're 649 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: not going to do justice to it, but you can 650 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: read more about it in We Go Where They Go. 651 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: The story of entire is Attaction published by p M Press. 652 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 1: The but some of the area's most important work was 653 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 1: actually pro choice organizing, and specifically it's like it was 654 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,240 Speaker 1: like a whole genre um of organizing called clinic defense, 655 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: where in in the most sort of simple description of it, 656 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 1: you know, maybe someone is going to get an abortion, 657 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 1: and a clinic has like a designated day that like 658 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: abortions around Tuesdays, for example, and then you have lots 659 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 1: of anti choice protesters out front who come to like 660 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,839 Speaker 1: harass the women who are trying to get abortions and 661 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 1: harass the clinic, and who might get it pretty raity, 662 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: and who might like throw ship um, and who could 663 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 1: be a real danger and a threat, and so h 664 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:10,840 Speaker 1: From as early as like two wish I want to 665 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 1: say is one of the first examples I heard of it, 666 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,279 Speaker 1: and and throughout all the nineties a lot of Area 667 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: organizers take that on. I think it's a really interesting 668 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 1: example that like the affinity there is kind of like 669 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: it's almost less. I mean, I think the reason that 670 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 1: they did that and didn't do other cool leftist things 671 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 1: is like a tactical thing that it involves like going 672 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 1: somewhere and like physically putting your body on the line 673 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 1: in order like physically defend people in a potentially rowdy context. 674 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: And it's very like direct action oriented that I think 675 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: lined up pretty well with sort of what was in 676 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: Area's wheelhouse, and so are A chapters all over supporting 677 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,360 Speaker 1: women trying to get abortions, supporting abortion clinics. That was 678 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 1: actually probably the main sort of political development that ever 679 00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: happened within the AREA network, because like I said, it 680 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: was pretty decent, traalized always and didn't have like a 681 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,840 Speaker 1: super specific party line. It had the like points of 682 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:09,399 Speaker 1: unity that we heard. But what the like one most 683 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,960 Speaker 1: significant amendment that ever happened to those points of unity 684 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,880 Speaker 1: was are A voting. I believe the first vote was 685 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,360 Speaker 1: in nineties seven and it didn't pass, and then it 686 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: did pass in two amend the points of unity to 687 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 1: be explicitly pro choice. Yeah, and that's really cool. It's 688 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: cool to see that what you might call an intersection 689 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 1: of an anti racist, anti fascist group taking on reproductive rights. 690 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: But also I think it's one thing that I think 691 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 1: is really interesting about it is that we might sort 692 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,359 Speaker 1: of take for granted in that like a leftist ish 693 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 1: group is going to be like, yeah, and also like 694 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,920 Speaker 1: reproductive freedom is good and important Like for me, I 695 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 1: draw that line pretty obviously, but that was like not 696 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,400 Speaker 1: the case for everyone in a r A, which was 697 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 1: a very broad tent and was this like anti as 698 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 1: just thing and so yeah, you had so there weren't 699 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 1: all that many people who were like pro life necessarily, 700 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 1: but you did have people saying like, well, do we 701 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,360 Speaker 1: want to put a pro choice platform out and potentially 702 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: alienate people who want to be who want to like 703 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,279 Speaker 1: fight Nazis but identify as pro life, Like do we 704 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 1: want to kick them out of our organization or organizations 705 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: about fighting Nazis? So it was a big debate and 706 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: it was It was a really cool development that happened 707 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,719 Speaker 1: within a RA, And I think a lot of sort 708 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 1: of education by women, by queer people within are A, 709 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 1: pushing the network as a whole to understand that. Um, 710 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,719 Speaker 1: that was an important thing for are A too. Two 711 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 1: that that was an important line for Area account even 712 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 1: though they were still a tent thing. Yeah, Lansing, Michigan 713 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,759 Speaker 1: are A was an important chapter and I mentioned them 714 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,960 Speaker 1: briefly And it was a one person named Steve who 715 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:08,720 Speaker 1: was very, um, very helpful to me and like getting 716 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 1: me to that's the first place I ever heard Screwdriver. Lansing, Michigan. 717 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I know, No, I agreed. It was definitely 718 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,399 Speaker 1: a bummer. I I met punks there and they were 719 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 1: ironically listening to Screwdriver and I was like, I don't 720 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:30,359 Speaker 1: believe you, and I think I was right, and he's 721 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:37,399 Speaker 1: not very funny. Yeah, this was like twenty years ago. Yeah. Anyway, Uh, well, 722 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:41,239 Speaker 1: Steve was not a Nazi. Steve was awesome, and I 723 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:42,799 Speaker 1: just meant to put out a personal note that he 724 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 1: was very helpful to me, um, like personally and all 725 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,440 Speaker 1: this research and stuff. But so Arie Lansing was a 726 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:53,319 Speaker 1: really interesting chapter where um they worked really hard to 727 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:57,839 Speaker 1: work in coalition with other groups in Lancing that we're 728 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 1: doing broader stuff than just anti fascism. And so this 729 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:06,279 Speaker 1: is a really big topic that I don't think we 730 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,920 Speaker 1: have time to adequately address um right now. But basically 731 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:17,279 Speaker 1: there was a tension within a ARRA over time that 732 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,320 Speaker 1: we're we you know, the name is literally anti racist action. 733 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: I think in this podcast. I don't know about you, Margaret, 734 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,759 Speaker 1: I definitely have often been using the word racist, but 735 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,320 Speaker 1: realistically what they were targeting was very specifically fascists a 736 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,120 Speaker 1: lot of the time right in the yeah, which is 737 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:39,320 Speaker 1: different than racism in terms of like organizing models and yeah, yeah, 738 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,200 Speaker 1: and so I mean they did absolutely do both, but 739 00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,799 Speaker 1: that was a continual sort of topic of discussion and 740 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,479 Speaker 1: push and pull with an ARRAY was to what degree 741 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,480 Speaker 1: are we, like an anti fascist organization versus an anti 742 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 1: racist organization. I think those discussions also overlapped with to 743 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: what degree is are A like a quote unquote white 744 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:02,760 Speaker 1: organization versus like a multi race organization. Are A started 745 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:07,600 Speaker 1: in very multi racial skinhead scenes but over time became 746 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 1: much wider white ter with a T. Yeah, so that 747 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:17,040 Speaker 1: by like you know, especially maybe or something like I 748 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 1: think they're there, you know, were important exceptions. Detroit was 749 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,960 Speaker 1: a was a chapter that was I think probably like 750 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,480 Speaker 1: majority people of color for a bit, but they're kind 751 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,480 Speaker 1: of like the exception that proves the rule that like 752 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,080 Speaker 1: people I spoke to or a person I spoke to 753 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,520 Speaker 1: from Detroit talks about going to the Area National Network 754 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:38,799 Speaker 1: and like are A Detroit kind of knew that they 755 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,640 Speaker 1: were different, that they were like they had this multi 756 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 1: racial character, and then they look around at these other 757 00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,160 Speaker 1: chapters at an Area National Conference and see a lot 758 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,680 Speaker 1: of white faces. Really we're gonna say something, no, no, 759 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 1: go ahead. So just then that sort of uh, you know, 760 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:59,040 Speaker 1: tied into conversations of so then is it and conversations 761 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,560 Speaker 1: that are still relevant, like oh is it our job too? 762 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:07,480 Speaker 1: Like are are we? Doesn't mean that we're fucking up 763 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,960 Speaker 1: our anti racist organizing if like if we're anti racist, 764 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:12,359 Speaker 1: and like, how come there are so many white people 765 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:13,880 Speaker 1: in the room and not as many people of color. 766 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:16,839 Speaker 1: On the other hand, maybe and I think this this 767 00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,040 Speaker 1: works a little bit better with like anti fascist stuff 768 00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,919 Speaker 1: of like you know, as one white skin had put 769 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: it from Cincinnati that they were fighting for their own 770 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,440 Speaker 1: liberation and a lot of people in area who were 771 00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:33,279 Speaker 1: white like obviously cared about racism and it's not that, 772 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:35,840 Speaker 1: but they weren't like going out and trying to like 773 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:39,160 Speaker 1: save other people. They were like, I do not want 774 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,799 Speaker 1: to live under fascism. I am opposed to these fascists. 775 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:43,759 Speaker 1: So I, as a person, I'm going to go fight 776 00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:49,000 Speaker 1: the fascists rather than like a savior complex. Yeah, there's 777 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 1: another line that maybe white people have a unique responsibility 778 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:57,640 Speaker 1: to fight fascism because fascists are organizing in white communities Um. 779 00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:03,560 Speaker 1: There was one UM organizer Toronto organizer from Chicago who 780 00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,759 Speaker 1: put that really well that he was like he was 781 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,080 Speaker 1: like sick of seeing like the burden of fighting fascists 782 00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,279 Speaker 1: fall on people of color. And the way he put 783 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,439 Speaker 1: it that like a A should be predominantly white, are 784 00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:17,600 Speaker 1: A should be going to like white communities and like 785 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 1: handling the ship. Uh. And maybe one last line that 786 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,280 Speaker 1: um the same person who I just quoted as saying 787 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,200 Speaker 1: like that he was fighting for his own liberation also 788 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,480 Speaker 1: put it as like he was that they were in 789 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:34,200 Speaker 1: competition with the clan for white people. That like every 790 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,960 Speaker 1: white person who like joined a r A who was 791 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,160 Speaker 1: you know maybe just like you know, it wasn't destined 792 00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:42,839 Speaker 1: to be like a committed leftist or something they were 793 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,040 Speaker 1: you know again, maybe some random kid from like a 794 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,600 Speaker 1: trailer park in Indiana if they were in a ra A, 795 00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,520 Speaker 1: that meant that they weren't in the clan. Yeah. And 796 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,360 Speaker 1: so I don't want to get like disproportionately more oxygen 797 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:56,920 Speaker 1: to that line of like, oh it's okay for a 798 00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:01,920 Speaker 1: A to be super white. I think maybe it's kind 799 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,719 Speaker 1: of more obvious and intuitive to the average listener on 800 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,000 Speaker 1: like it's a little weird, maybe have a group called 801 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,200 Speaker 1: Anti Racist Action and have it be a bunch of 802 00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:13,000 Speaker 1: white people. But there were sort of I think there 803 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,880 Speaker 1: are there are valid points on both sides. Well, I 804 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:17,680 Speaker 1: mean not a sentence. I don't really love saying it 805 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,000 Speaker 1: brings up a ton of questions, but it doesn't necessarily 806 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:23,600 Speaker 1: immediately provide answers, and that's that seems like okay, And 807 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,680 Speaker 1: then like I don't know, I'm probably not we might 808 00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,839 Speaker 1: not be the best two people to decide exactly that 809 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:35,920 Speaker 1: kind of thing. Um yeah, yeah, But to try to 810 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,640 Speaker 1: briefly tie that up into I mentioned Lansing. Lansing was 811 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:44,920 Speaker 1: one group that was very explicitly wanted to like be 812 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,080 Speaker 1: a broader anti racist group and wanted to like and 813 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:49,680 Speaker 1: didn't want to just be like a bunch of white 814 00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,560 Speaker 1: kids fighting Nazis. They wanted to yeah, maybe address racism 815 00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:57,040 Speaker 1: that was like more in like people of colors day 816 00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,080 Speaker 1: to day lives, for example. And so they did really 817 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:03,480 Speaker 1: interesting work in relition with different groups around Lancing, um 818 00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:08,360 Speaker 1: generally fighting police brutality and like fighting austerity at the university, 819 00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:12,200 Speaker 1: working with Metcha Chapter U, the I Want Bunch of 820 00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,320 Speaker 1: the Spanish, the Chicano student movement of Azaplan a Chicano 821 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:19,080 Speaker 1: student group UM still around today, but they their chapter 822 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,480 Speaker 1: in Lansing. At this time, them and the air A 823 00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:27,279 Speaker 1: chapter were really tight again, fighting like police brutality, fighting austerity. 824 00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,600 Speaker 1: There was an area group in Moscow, Idaho fighting Area 825 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,000 Speaker 1: Nations up in Idaho. There was are a groups like 826 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,600 Speaker 1: the whole last chapter of our book is about the 827 00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:39,800 Speaker 1: area out of Chicago and more into the East Coast 828 00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,080 Speaker 1: fighting group called the World Church to the Creator, and 829 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,400 Speaker 1: a group called the National Alliance who were making a 830 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,440 Speaker 1: big push for fascism in like the nine eleven adjacent 831 00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:55,160 Speaker 1: era groups around California fighting the clan Um groups in 832 00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,239 Speaker 1: Texas are a. You know, we we were able to 833 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:02,319 Speaker 1: just uh scratched the surface of areas deep and rich 834 00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:05,200 Speaker 1: history in today's episode. But there were a lot of 835 00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,240 Speaker 1: different people doing a lot of different and cool things. 836 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:10,960 Speaker 1: And if any of them listen to this and I 837 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,480 Speaker 1: didn't cover their stuff, I really apologize. But a lot 838 00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,080 Speaker 1: of it is really rich from they didn't They didn't 839 00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:22,880 Speaker 1: deserve it. I chose very explicitive to deliberately exclude with 840 00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:28,440 Speaker 1: spite and malice the forthought. Yeah. But so yeah, you know, 841 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,680 Speaker 1: we're just not going to be able to cover everything 842 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,200 Speaker 1: in a in a podcast. It's almost like there's a 843 00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:38,320 Speaker 1: whole book that people could read. It's almost like that. Well, okay, 844 00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:43,160 Speaker 1: my takeaways from from what you I took notes the 845 00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,880 Speaker 1: things that thank you, because we we live in a 846 00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,320 Speaker 1: time when fascism is ascendant or at least as growing 847 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:53,120 Speaker 1: in the United States right now, and groups like the 848 00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:55,400 Speaker 1: are A have a lot to offer, I think, like 849 00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,640 Speaker 1: in terms of both positive and negative lessons and things 850 00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,319 Speaker 1: like that, and the the things that I wrote down 851 00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:04,000 Speaker 1: that they seem to be their strengths and part of 852 00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:07,200 Speaker 1: why they were so cool. They outsmarted people because they 853 00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:12,320 Speaker 1: read Today's sponsor. They gathered diverse ideological positions and avoided 854 00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,200 Speaker 1: a party line, which is actually, I know there's some 855 00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,040 Speaker 1: irony here. I think is actually a specifically unique advantage 856 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:24,240 Speaker 1: of UM of anarchists is that we theoretically avoid UM 857 00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,719 Speaker 1: telling people what to do, and so like working in 858 00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:31,120 Speaker 1: coalition and working alongside. Political pluralism is actually like can 859 00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:35,080 Speaker 1: be a fairly natural thing because if different groups work together, 860 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,480 Speaker 1: they have to work together in a way that respects 861 00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,160 Speaker 1: individuals autonomy, the autonomy of the different groups and the 862 00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:44,279 Speaker 1: different people within them, and so that fits very well 863 00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,440 Speaker 1: in with my personal political ideology. But that is beside 864 00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:50,799 Speaker 1: the point. Be rowdy, go both d i y and 865 00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:54,240 Speaker 1: mainstream in your outreach, and don't be afraid of doing both. 866 00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:58,040 Speaker 1: Be decentralized and be willing to work in coalitions with 867 00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:01,200 Speaker 1: other groups. Those are my takeaway. Um am I missing 868 00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:04,840 Speaker 1: any major ones. You know, I have a tendency sometimes 869 00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,960 Speaker 1: to restate things back to people and make them more confusing, 870 00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:10,879 Speaker 1: not less, and so I won't do that. I think 871 00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,719 Speaker 1: you summarize them very well. I think the only thing 872 00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,560 Speaker 1: that I will add is that maybe a lot of 873 00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:21,520 Speaker 1: the time there was there there was there could be 874 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,920 Speaker 1: two different like sort of trends pulling in different directions 875 00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,520 Speaker 1: in array at the same time. Uh, and that that 876 00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:31,080 Speaker 1: sort of tension could be part of what made aar 877 00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,040 Speaker 1: A what it was. But that there just to say 878 00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:37,319 Speaker 1: that there are questions that never were firmly answered and 879 00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,279 Speaker 1: part of that maybe plays into what you said about like, 880 00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:44,200 Speaker 1: um sort of being multi tendency, but like, yeah, there 881 00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,560 Speaker 1: there were you know how sort of wide air ray 882 00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:49,920 Speaker 1: was was what made it able to mobilize like a 883 00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,040 Speaker 1: lot of different people and get you know, people who 884 00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,920 Speaker 1: weren't already super committed leftists involved. For example, on the 885 00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,560 Speaker 1: flip side, there are people who or there were people 886 00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,400 Speaker 1: who were some times frustrated with like the difficulty of 887 00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:07,120 Speaker 1: having a sort of well defined, proactive political line and 888 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,720 Speaker 1: that sometimes it could have been cool to have something 889 00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:11,600 Speaker 1: that was a bit more like sort of politically tight. 890 00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:14,799 Speaker 1: That maybe that's just kind of an inherent trade off 891 00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:18,640 Speaker 1: that like, you know, the reason that the Democratic Party 892 00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,399 Speaker 1: is really big is that their politics is watered down 893 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:25,799 Speaker 1: and meaningless. And the other hand, you have super tight, 894 00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:31,520 Speaker 1: well defined vanguard parties with two members. Uh, you know, 895 00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,040 Speaker 1: the like you know, how much we define and how 896 00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:37,520 Speaker 1: much sort of disagreement we allowed is sort of an 897 00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:41,000 Speaker 1: internal tension in politics. Um, and so I'll just say 898 00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,320 Speaker 1: that that and other ones too are like are we 899 00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,759 Speaker 1: anti racist? Are we anti fascist? Are we multiracial? Or 900 00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:50,480 Speaker 1: are we white? Things like that were there could be 901 00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:54,879 Speaker 1: questions in areas history that never were resolved, and um, 902 00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,760 Speaker 1: that's part of what area was was multiple people maybe 903 00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,640 Speaker 1: doing work in different directions, but that all was part 904 00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:05,360 Speaker 1: of the same whole sort of yeah, well, if people 905 00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,640 Speaker 1: want to know all of the answers, no, wait, if 906 00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,359 Speaker 1: people want to understand more about the tensions. They can 907 00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:15,480 Speaker 1: they can turn to your book, which is called We 908 00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:18,640 Speaker 1: Go Where They Go a Store, The Story of anti 909 00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:22,600 Speaker 1: racist action. They get that right. Yeah, it's a good title. 910 00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:25,120 Speaker 1: Thank you. We stole it from the entire resist action 911 00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:27,680 Speaker 1: We Go Where There. You also stole the whole contents 912 00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,080 Speaker 1: from them. It seems to just be the story of them. 913 00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:34,600 Speaker 1: There is a chapter in the middle which is, um, 914 00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:36,920 Speaker 1: just my dream journal, okay, but yes, the rest of 915 00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,680 Speaker 1: it is they are excellent. Yeah. Um, I'm glad you 916 00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:42,400 Speaker 1: didn't mark out which parts were which too, so that 917 00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:46,680 Speaker 1: was useful. Yes, yeah, anything else that you want to 918 00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,200 Speaker 1: plug you know what, I'm going to be a little 919 00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,239 Speaker 1: bit cheesy for a second, that genuinely, Yeah, Like what 920 00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:54,880 Speaker 1: the book is is the stories of like the people 921 00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:58,480 Speaker 1: who were there and you know, combined with other sources. 922 00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:00,239 Speaker 1: And we try really hard not to cheerly. And we 923 00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,280 Speaker 1: didn't just say that like area was perfect and everything 924 00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,759 Speaker 1: it did was cool. We did try to like analyze 925 00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,360 Speaker 1: when it succeeded and when it failed, but nonetheless we 926 00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,480 Speaker 1: did that from like a pretty unapologetic standpoint of like, one, 927 00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,200 Speaker 1: fascists have to be confronted and who we wanted it 928 00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,440 Speaker 1: to be sort of pulled from the perspective, not necessarily 929 00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,120 Speaker 1: even from the perspective, but told by people who were there. 930 00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:23,680 Speaker 1: And so yeah, I was one small part of it, um, 931 00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:27,600 Speaker 1: But I'm immensely grateful to uh, the all of those 932 00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:29,279 Speaker 1: sources who spoke to me and who spoke to my 933 00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:32,120 Speaker 1: co authors, and I hope that we did I will 934 00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:36,239 Speaker 1: say that we did do uh them justice, I hope, 935 00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:40,319 Speaker 1: and uh there what they said coming through uh in 936 00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:42,759 Speaker 1: the book, that it really is their story. H And 937 00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:47,080 Speaker 1: also my co authors sick three co authors who are 938 00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:49,719 Speaker 1: not here today obviously, but they were all in array 939 00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:53,560 Speaker 1: whereas I was not. What are their names, Yeah, Kristen Schwartz, 940 00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:57,840 Speaker 1: Mike Stoudenmeyer and lady and the four of us together 941 00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:02,480 Speaker 1: co wrote the book. Uh. And you know, as we 942 00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:04,799 Speaker 1: put it in the intro, maybe one of the an 943 00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,480 Speaker 1: example of some of the cooler aspects of Area itself 944 00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:11,319 Speaker 1: was this sort of commitment to horizontally working together and 945 00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,239 Speaker 1: making a cool thing happened cool collectively. And we did that. 946 00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:18,680 Speaker 1: And so thanks to the people who were there and 947 00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:21,360 Speaker 1: to my co authors and so the whole process I 948 00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:23,880 Speaker 1: am just one small part of but thanks to everybody. 949 00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,600 Speaker 1: The book is fucking good. Yeah, so you should. We've 950 00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:32,399 Speaker 1: linked it in our episode description for everyone. Yeah, if 951 00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:36,080 Speaker 1: you so desire or are able. Yeah, and if not, 952 00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:39,080 Speaker 1: request a library stock it and then go steal get 953 00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:43,400 Speaker 1: it out from the library. Yeah, do both. Request it 954 00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,920 Speaker 1: from your local library. If you're a student, requested at 955 00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:51,560 Speaker 1: your school's library. They pretty much always buy those. Heck. Yeah, Sophie, 956 00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:54,400 Speaker 1: you have a new podcast. Yeah, you can listen to 957 00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:58,200 Speaker 1: Internet Hate Machine with Bridget Todd. And for all cool 958 00:54:58,239 --> 00:54:59,879 Speaker 1: Zone Media shows, you can go to at cool zone 959 00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:04,600 Speaker 1: media dot com or at cool Zone Media on Twitter 960 00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:10,360 Speaker 1: and Instagram while they still exist. Anything you want to plug. 961 00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,400 Speaker 1: I'm part of a publishing collective called Strangers and the 962 00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:15,960 Speaker 1: Tangled Wilderness. We put out a bunch of books and 963 00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:19,480 Speaker 1: zines and podcasts and ship. Um not this podcast, but 964 00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:21,040 Speaker 1: we put out a different one of my podcasts called 965 00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:22,960 Speaker 1: Live Like the World Is Dying, your guide for what 966 00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:25,759 Speaker 1: feels like the End times about individual community preparedness. And 967 00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:27,640 Speaker 1: we're about to put out our first book. Um it 968 00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:29,319 Speaker 1: might be out by the time. Y'all hear this. I 969 00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:32,680 Speaker 1: don't even know And it's by Cindy Melstein and it's 970 00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:35,359 Speaker 1: called Triannarchism for Life and it has lots of really 971 00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,600 Speaker 1: beautiful art and really nice essays and you can go 972 00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,480 Speaker 1: get it at Tangled Wilderness dot org or wherever you 973 00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:46,640 Speaker 1: get your books. That's what I got. Awesome. Thanks and 974 00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:51,920 Speaker 1: we'll be back next week. Hey, thanks, Thanks Shannon, Thank 975 00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:57,240 Speaker 1: you all. Very happy to be here. Appreciated, cool people 976 00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:00,000 Speaker 1: who did Cool Stop is a production of cool Zone Media. 977 00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:03,320 Speaker 1: For more podcasts on cool zone Media, visit our website 978 00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:05,920 Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com, or check us out on 979 00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,920 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 980 00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:10,000 Speaker 1: get your podcasts.